[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I have one Interprocessor Buffer (M8326). Of course just one won't help to connect my Lab-8/e and my PDP-8/e. :-( On Thu, 31 Aug 2023, 12:49 am Mike Katz via cctalk, wrote: > DEC did make the Interprocessor Buffer (M8326) for the Ominibus. That > allowed for relatively high speed communications between machines. You > could also do some kind of serial network like Lantastic.I know some > company made an SDLC board set for the omnibus. > > On 8/30/2023 8:04 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > >> On Aug 29, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> -BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is > >>> ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and > money. > >>> b > >> True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If > someone offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an > offer on this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy > beer to help me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to > find. :-) > >> > >> I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's > AND an 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare > SMP pdp8 > > Or DECnet/8, though I suspect an 8/L can't run that. > > > > paul > > > >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I'm thinking more of sharing Omnibus devices and memory. Why not C On 8/30/2023 9:04 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Aug 29, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: -BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If someone offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an offer on this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy beer to help me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to find. :-) I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's AND an 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare SMP pdp8 Or DECnet/8, though I suspect an 8/L can't run that. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
DEC did make the Interprocessor Buffer (M8326) for the Ominibus. That allowed for relatively high speed communications between machines. You could also do some kind of serial network like Lantastic. I know some company made an SDLC board set for the omnibus. On 8/30/2023 8:04 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Aug 29, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: -BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If someone offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an offer on this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy beer to help me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to find. :-) I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's AND an 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare SMP pdp8 Or DECnet/8, though I suspect an 8/L can't run that. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On 2023-08-29 6:46 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: -BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If someone offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an offer on this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy beer to help me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to find. :-) I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's AND an 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare SMP pdp8 Hm. C How about a 36 bit PDP-8L? :)
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 29, 2023, at 8:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > >> -BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is >> ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. >> b > > True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If someone > offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an offer on > this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy beer to help > me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to find. :-) > > I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's AND an > 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare SMP > pdp8 Or DECnet/8, though I suspect an 8/L can't run that. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 29, 2023, at 7:02 AM, Gavin Scott via cctalk > wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 6:22 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk > wrote: >> You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a week >> ago? > > They instead chose the ever-popular Simplified Planetary Landing > Approach Trajectory. Ok, that’s funny right there. David A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? David Barto ba...@kdbarto.org
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
-BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b True, it is a silly price. I was thinking about this on the forum: If someone offers to buy one of my fully running 8/L's for 6k I'll put in an offer on this one for 3k and restore it. The extra 3k will be used to buy beer to help me forget about all of the little mouse ghosts I'm going to find. :-) I'd offer 3k for it outright, but to be honest I can't have 3 pdp8/L's AND an 8/e. At some point I'd have to wire them into some sort of nightmare SMP pdp8 Hm. C
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 29, 2023, at 8:03 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 7:02 AM Gavin Scott via cctalk > wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 6:22 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk >> wrote: >>> You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a >> week ago? >> >> They instead chose the ever-popular Simplified Planetary Landing >> Approach Trajectory. >> > > The original moon landing utilized Ballistically Unrealistic Lunar Landing > Simulation Hallucination Initiation Technology. That reminds me of a story I heard at a course in the 1980s, from E.W. Dijkstra. It sounded very implausible except for the fact that he was the source... The story was that the Apollo flight software was validated against simulators, as one might expect. But some problems were encountered during testing that were quite baffling, until someone realized that the sign of gravity was wrong in one of those simulators. Hm. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 7:02 AM Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 6:22 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk > wrote: > > You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a > week ago? > > They instead chose the ever-popular Simplified Planetary Landing > Approach Trajectory. > The original moon landing utilized Ballistically Unrealistic Lunar Landing Simulation Hallucination Initiation Technology. Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On 8/29/23 06:30, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Oh baloney. As long as the backplane pins are not mushed these are surprisingly easy to fix and mouse crap can be vacuumed out and cleaned off the cards and pins. The thing that drove me the most nuts was finding a backplane wire that had worn through its insualtion and shorted against another pin. Well, the mice pee in everything, and that is very corrosive! Jon
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I hate what epay is doing to our hobby. I prefer to sell and trade between our selves as reasonable prices understanding that a lot of what we do is sweat equity. If you think the hobby is bad, you should see what happened to housing. "I know what I got!" I have a lot of different geeky hobbies and what happened to vintage computing is idential to what happened to video games (way bigger market) and music equipment (Synths, guitar stuff.) Same with aracade games and especially pinball machines. What was a $1000 C title pinball is now $5000 with some gaudy mods taped to them. I could the be the eternal pessimist, but I think things are weakening? I have some synthesizers I rebuilt up for sale and notice the market is much slower than it was. I wish I could get a read on the video game markets which of course spill into some classic computers. I assume people are going to pull back spending at some point, but with 40% more money added to the US economy in the last few years there are people sitting on a lt of cash. Be it stock wins or PPP loan freebies or crypto or hoomer gains. If it could only dip on the stuff I want but rise on the stuff I have. - Ethan
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 6:22 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a week > ago? They instead chose the ever-popular Simplified Planetary Landing Approach Trajectory.
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
-BUT- That does not mean it *can't* be restored, only that $15,000 is ridiculous for a machine that clearly needs an expert with time and money. b On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 7:54 AM Mattis Lind via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Den tis 29 aug. 2023 kl 13:30 skrev Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > Oh baloney. As long as the backplane pins are not mushed these are > > surprisingly easy to fix and mouse crap can be vacuumed out and cleaned > > off the cards and pins. > > > > The thing that drove me the most nuts was finding a backplane wire that > > had worn through its insualtion and shorted against another pin. > > > > Fully agree. Anders Sandahl in Sweden restored a PDP-8/L to operating > condition. It has been stored for many years in a damp garage. A lot of > rust, hundreds of bad components. Bad core memory but eventually it was > running fine. > > https://pdp-9.net/pdp-8-l > > So I also think it should be possible to get it to run again. > > /Mattis > > > > C > > > > On 8/29/2023 12:01 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > > Look at the photos. Let it rust in peace in mouse heaven. It is just > > scrap. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 1:30 am Bill Degnan via cctalk, < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > >> > > >> sheesh. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Den tis 29 aug. 2023 kl 13:30 skrev Chris Zach via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > Oh baloney. As long as the backplane pins are not mushed these are > surprisingly easy to fix and mouse crap can be vacuumed out and cleaned > off the cards and pins. > > The thing that drove me the most nuts was finding a backplane wire that > had worn through its insualtion and shorted against another pin. > Fully agree. Anders Sandahl in Sweden restored a PDP-8/L to operating condition. It has been stored for many years in a damp garage. A lot of rust, hundreds of bad components. Bad core memory but eventually it was running fine. https://pdp-9.net/pdp-8-l So I also think it should be possible to get it to run again. /Mattis > C > > On 8/29/2023 12:01 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > Look at the photos. Let it rust in peace in mouse heaven. It is just > scrap. > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 1:30 am Bill Degnan via cctalk, < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > >> > >> sheesh. > >> > >> Bill > >> >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Oh baloney. As long as the backplane pins are not mushed these are surprisingly easy to fix and mouse crap can be vacuumed out and cleaned off the cards and pins. The thing that drove me the most nuts was finding a backplane wire that had worn through its insualtion and shorted against another pin. C On 8/29/2023 12:01 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Look at the photos. Let it rust in peace in mouse heaven. It is just scrap. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 1:30 am Bill Degnan via cctalk, wrote: It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 sheesh. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Fred Cisin wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: My trick for successful landing the CDC Cyber/6000 series lunar lander version was to set the initial height above the moon's surface to the minimum height of 1' and then let it drop. I never successful landed from the default height above the surface. It was seriously difficult. Is that why people don't go to the moon very often, any more? :-) You reckon someone in Moscow is wishing they heard about this trick a week ago? (This stuff is before my time. I should go and dig out DECLander on VWS for my VAXStation 2000...) Regards, Peter Coghlan
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On 08/28/2023 5:07 PM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > I think I've come up with a nice way to get that accomplished through good > old market dynamics (i.e. voluntarily) with a subtle twist. Well at some point in the next N years I need to sell off my S-100 stuff. If I croak first it will all probably be scrapped. mcl
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: My trick for successful landing the CDC Cyber/6000 series lunar lander version was to set the initial height above the moon's surface to the minimum height of 1' and then let it drop. I never successful landed from the default height above the surface. It was seriously difficult. Is that why people don't go to the moon very often, any more? :-)
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
My trick for successful landing the CDC Cyber/6000 series lunar lander version was to set the initial height above the moon's surface to the minimum height of 1' and then let it drop. I never successful landed from the default height above the surface. It was seriously difficult. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 5:06 am Paul Koning via cctalk, wrote: > > > > On Aug 28, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 08/28/2023 3:48 PM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > >> > >> Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. > >> > >> paul > > > > Apparently the original version was in FOCAL. > > https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander.html > > > > Will > > Interesting. And amazingly short. > > I flipped through some of those articles. There's a version from around > those early times not mentioned, for the CDC 6000 mainframe computer. It > used the console display, dual green text displays that could also do > graphics (clumsily, because the API was a dot drawing one, not line > vectors). > > What's unusual about that one is that it's a pilot's point of view display > -- it shows you the lander's instruments and a view out the windows, rather > than an outside observer view as the GT40 version does. I played it a few > times, it was hard -- I never managed to land it. One of the system staff > (at University of Illinois PLATO project) was rumored to have a fast way to > land: flip upside down, blast rockets, flip right side up, blast some more > for a soft landing. > > paul > >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Look at the photos. Let it rust in peace in mouse heaven. It is just scrap. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 1:30 am Bill Degnan via cctalk, wrote: > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > sheesh. > > Bill >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I forgot to mention that I was playing the Focal version on a PDP-8/L coincidentally. On 8/28/2023 4:16 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: I played the graphics lunar lander on a PDP-9 with a graphics display and push buttons (not the sw) in a back room in the Kiewit Computation Center at Dartmouth in like 1972 or 1973, the same time I was playing it in text on a teletype ASR-33 in Focal. Hand typed in and punched to paper tape. On 8/28/2023 4:06 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Aug 28, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 08/28/2023 3:48 PM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. paul Apparently the original version was in FOCAL. https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander.html Will Interesting. And amazingly short. I flipped through some of those articles. There's a version from around those early times not mentioned, for the CDC 6000 mainframe computer. It used the console display, dual green text displays that could also do graphics (clumsily, because the API was a dot drawing one, not line vectors). What's unusual about that one is that it's a pilot's point of view display -- it shows you the lander's instruments and a view out the windows, rather than an outside observer view as the GT40 version does. I played it a few times, it was hard -- I never managed to land it. One of the system staff (at University of Illinois PLATO project) was rumored to have a fast way to land: flip upside down, blast rockets, flip right side up, blast some more for a soft landing. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
-Original Message- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 3:07 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Sellam Abraham Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000 On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 2:24 PM Brad H via cctalk wrote: >> Sometimes. But a lot of times it's just simply trying to get as much >>as possible, which I guess is rational economic behavior. And the >>fault for the high prices is us collectors - ye who bid thousands for >> old Apple IIs or $3500 for a Microswitch keyboard. >> > This topic is at least as old as the list itself :D Yup. >> I've been hunting for a Sanyo MBC-16 like the ones we had in our >> highschool.. there's one on ebay right now.. but despite another >> previously selling for less than $300 the seller is absolutely locked >> to $999. And he might be right, someone more motivated than me and to >> whom $1000 is no big deal might reward his patience. >There's one in Germany that's in much nicer shape. You probably can't do >anything about the $154 shipping but you can probably negotiate the $323 >asking price as it's open to offers. You mean this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/144865038347 It was marked sold but seems to be back again. Weird. Problem with that one is like you said, the shipping, plus it's not working, plus it's 220v and I don't know if those PSUs have a way to switch to 110V. Not sure why they're so rare.. I guess they were more of an international thing, like my Dad's "Panasonic" Tandy. >> I've seen that happen with items that sat literally for years on ebay >> before selling pretty close to asking. >> >I finally sold a MITS Altair 8800 1K Static Mem board last month. I had it >listed for $1,200 (accepted $1,100). What made it special were the >(8) Intel C8101 static RAM chips, each of which is worth a small fortune. >I was willing to sit on it until the right buyer came along, and he did. >Guilty as charged :) I sold mine for $120. I've not seen one go for more than that since. Is there something special about your C8101s? I don't know my Altair stuff that well.. I thought they all had those chips. I have been thinking about selling my Godbout G8008, as well as the 16 white ceramic P1101s I have - I think those are pretty collectible now. >> It's too bad the various collecting communities can't have the >> disarmament equivalent of SALT talks and maybe agree to not keep feeding the >> beast. >> Although I suppose on the upside, the high values mean stuff that >> might otherwise get discarded survives. >> >I think I've come up with a nice way to get that accomplished through good old >market dynamics (i.e. voluntarily) with a subtle twist. I'm all ears! Brad
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I wonder if it came to it which option would be best for me if I sold my Mark-8 stuff. I have the unbuilt board set and then also the built one I acquired recently that was photoed in 73 Magazine. It seems like the actual auction houses get more usually.BradSent from my Galaxy Original message From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk Date: 2023-08-28 3:10 p.m. (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Sellam Abraham Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000 On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 2:27 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote:> > -Original Message-> > From: Ethan O'Toole via cctalk > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 9:38 PM> > To: Mike Katz via cctalk > > Cc: Ethan O'Toole > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000> >> > > However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay> > > even when it doesn't sell.>> But you can re-list at different prices...>> >> > Eh, you get a lot of free listings these days. They take a huge chunk> though.> >>> All auction houses seem to take huge cuts. At traditional auction houses> there are often buyer and seller premiums.> So a place local to me reports the following :->> Based on the amount provided here is a breakdown of the additional charges> you will receive if you bid on a dash-cam :->> Name Value VAT> Bid Amount £32.00 £6.40> Buyers Premium £6.40 £1.28> Internet Charge £1.60 £0.32> Lot Processing Fee £1.00 £0.20> Total Price £49.20>> So if I bid £32.00 I pay £49.20. Makes E-Bay look cheap>>> > - Ethan>> Dave>Indeed. Typically, in high-end houses, if you bid in an auction and youwin an item with a bid of $10,000, you are also paying a 25% "buyer'spremium" on top of that, so your subtotal is now $12,500. RR Auction,Christie's, Southeby's, etc.Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 2:27 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Ethan O'Toole via cctalk > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 9:38 PM > > To: Mike Katz via cctalk > > Cc: Ethan O'Toole > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000 > > > > > However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay > > > even when it doesn't sell. > > But you can re-list at different prices... > > > > > Eh, you get a lot of free listings these days. They take a huge chunk > though. > > > > All auction houses seem to take huge cuts. At traditional auction houses > there are often buyer and seller premiums. > So a place local to me reports the following :- > > Based on the amount provided here is a breakdown of the additional charges > you will receive if you bid on a dash-cam :- > > Name ValueVAT > Bid Amount£32.00£6.40 > Buyers Premium £6.40£1.28 > Internet Charge £1.60 £0.32 > Lot Processing Fee £1.00£0.20 > Total Price£49.20 > > So if I bid £32.00 I pay £49.20. Makes E-Bay look cheap > > > > - Ethan > > Dave > Indeed. Typically, in high-end houses, if you bid in an auction and you win an item with a bid of $10,000, you are also paying a 25% "buyer's premium" on top of that, so your subtotal is now $12,500. RR Auction, Christie's, Southeby's, etc. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 2:24 PM Brad H via cctalk wrote: > Sometimes. But a lot of times it's just simply trying to get as much as > possible, which I guess is rational economic behavior. And the fault for > the high prices is us collectors - ye who bid thousands for old Apple IIs > or $3500 for a Microswitch keyboard. > This topic is at least as old as the list itself :D > I've been hunting for a Sanyo MBC-16 like the ones we had in our > highschool.. there's one on ebay right now.. but despite another previously > selling for less than $300 the seller is absolutely locked to $999. And he > might be right, someone more motivated than me and to whom $1000 is no big > deal might reward his patience. There's one in Germany that's in much nicer shape. You probably can't do anything about the $154 shipping but you can probably negotiate the $323 asking price as it's open to offers. > I've seen that happen with items that sat literally for years on ebay > before selling pretty close to asking. > I finally sold a MITS Altair 8800 1K Static Mem board last month. I had it listed for $1,200 (accepted $1,100). What made it special were the (8) Intel C8101 static RAM chips, each of which is worth a small fortune. I was willing to sit on it until the right buyer came along, and he did. Guilty as charged :) > It's too bad the various collecting communities can't have the disarmament > equivalent of SALT talks and maybe agree to not keep feeding the beast. > Although I suppose on the upside, the high values mean stuff that might > otherwise get discarded survives. > I think I've come up with a nice way to get that accomplished through good old market dynamics (i.e. voluntarily) with a subtle twist. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> -Original Message- > From: Ethan O'Toole via cctalk > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 9:38 PM > To: Mike Katz via cctalk > Cc: Ethan O'Toole > Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000 > > > However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay > > even when it doesn't sell. But you can re-list at different prices... > > Eh, you get a lot of free listings these days. They take a huge chunk though. > All auction houses seem to take huge cuts. At traditional auction houses there are often buyer and seller premiums. So a place local to me reports the following :- Based on the amount provided here is a breakdown of the additional charges you will receive if you bid on a dash-cam :- Name ValueVAT Bid Amount£32.00£6.40 Buyers Premium £6.40£1.28 Internet Charge £1.60 £0.32 Lot Processing Fee £1.00£0.20 Total Price£49.20 So if I bid £32.00 I pay £49.20. Makes E-Bay look cheap > - Ethan Dave
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I hate what epay is doing to our hobby. I prefer to sell and trade between our selves as reasonable prices understanding that a lot of what we do is sweat equity. On 8/28/2023 3:56 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:50 AM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay even when it doesn't sell. It's thirty five cents, and they usually don't charge it until it actually sells. Then they dock you another 13.25% on the total the buyer pays (including tax and shipping). But then you stand to make up a good amount of that because the buyer pays retail for shipping while you buy it at a discount and you get to keep the spread. But it's a Pyrrhic victory :D Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Sometimes. But a lot of times it's just simply trying to get as much as possible, which I guess is rational economic behavior. And the fault for the high prices is us collectors - ye who bid thousands for old Apple IIs or $3500 for a Microswitch keyboard. I've been hunting for a Sanyo MBC-16 like the ones we had in our highschool.. there's one on ebay right now.. but despite another previously selling for less than $300 the seller is absolutely locked to $999. And he might be right, someone more motivated than me and to whom $1000 is no big deal might reward his patience. I've seen that happen with items that sat literally for years on ebay before selling pretty close to asking. It's too bad the various collecting communities can't have the disarmament equivalent of SALT talks and maybe agree to not keep feeding the beast. Although I suppose on the upside, the high values mean stuff that might otherwise get discarded survives. -Original Message- From: Bill Degnan via cctalk Sent: Monday, August 28, 2023 11:38 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Bill Degnan Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000 On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > > Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally > rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 > > --Chuck > I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if you charged $n instead." It's not an illogical tactic. Bill >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I played the graphics lunar lander on a PDP-9 with a graphics display and push buttons (not the sw) in a back room in the Kiewit Computation Center at Dartmouth in like 1972 or 1973, the same time I was playing it in text on a teletype ASR-33 in Focal. Hand typed in and punched to paper tape. On 8/28/2023 4:06 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Aug 28, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 08/28/2023 3:48 PM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. paul Apparently the original version was in FOCAL. https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander.html Will Interesting. And amazingly short. I flipped through some of those articles. There's a version from around those early times not mentioned, for the CDC 6000 mainframe computer. It used the console display, dual green text displays that could also do graphics (clumsily, because the API was a dot drawing one, not line vectors). What's unusual about that one is that it's a pilot's point of view display -- it shows you the lander's instruments and a view out the windows, rather than an outside observer view as the GT40 version does. I played it a few times, it was hard -- I never managed to land it. One of the system staff (at University of Illinois PLATO project) was rumored to have a fast way to land: flip upside down, blast rockets, flip right side up, blast some more for a soft landing. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 28, 2023, at 4:55 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On 08/28/2023 3:48 PM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. >> >> paul > > Apparently the original version was in FOCAL. > https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander.html > > Will Interesting. And amazingly short. I flipped through some of those articles. There's a version from around those early times not mentioned, for the CDC 6000 mainframe computer. It used the console display, dual green text displays that could also do graphics (clumsily, because the API was a dot drawing one, not line vectors). What's unusual about that one is that it's a pilot's point of view display -- it shows you the lander's instruments and a view out the windows, rather than an outside observer view as the GT40 version does. I played it a few times, it was hard -- I never managed to land it. One of the system staff (at University of Illinois PLATO project) was rumored to have a fast way to land: flip upside down, blast rockets, flip right side up, blast some more for a soft landing. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:50 AM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay even > when it doesn't sell. It's thirty five cents, and they usually don't charge it until it actually sells. Then they dock you another 13.25% on the total the buyer pays (including tax and shipping). But then you stand to make up a good amount of that because the buyer pays retail for shipping while you buy it at a discount and you get to keep the spread. But it's a Pyrrhic victory :D Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On 08/28/2023 3:48 PM CDT Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. > > paul Apparently the original version was in FOCAL. https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander.html Will
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:38 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > > > > Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally > > rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 > > > > --Chuck > > > > I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's > probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will > wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might > sell if you charged $n instead." > > It's not an illogical tactic. > The Micro Decision I is pretty darn rare. I don't know about $3,500 rare, but this is maybe only the 2nd I've ever seen in the "wild" in all my days of collecting. I never was able to find one myself, and I think I've only seen one once in person. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> On Aug 28, 2023, at 4:41 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk > wrote: > >> (I'd normally sell one of mine for 6k working with Focal loaded up. > > Man, I hadn't thought of Focal in years. > > Never could beat that lunar lander someone wrote in it. Lander, in FOCAL? The only one I know is for the GT40, in assembler. paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay even when it doesn't sell. Eh, you get a lot of free listings these days. They take a huge chunk though. - Ethan
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's > probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will > wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might > sell if you charged $n instead." > > It's not an illogical tactic. Also, it is a GREAT way to generate buzz FOR PENNIES. -- Will
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
> (I'd normally sell one of mine for 6k working with Focal loaded up. Man, I hadn't thought of Focal in years. Never could beat that lunar lander someone wrote in it. mcl
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
it's been there for over a week. In unknown condition. I think that price is disgustingly high. I would love to have one but that is the down payment on a car, not a used computer. Antique or not. On 8/28/2023 12:30 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 sheesh. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
However, epay does charge an insertion fee so they will have to pay even when it doesn't sell. On 8/28/2023 1:37 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 --Chuck I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if you charged $n instead." It's not an illogical tactic. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
I will say the desktop chassis thing is kind of snazzy. But man be prepared to replace a LOT of 7474 flip flops and 8 input NAND gates (they seemed to use those as drivers. Weird, but worked but put the chip under serious stress when old) On 8/28/2023 1:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
Aww! Looks like Mr. Mouse paid a visit. That will be fun to get running. (I'd normally sell one of mine for 6k working with Focal loaded up. They're cute and all, but 15k? And it nice to have a spare for troubleshooting the other one if needed) CZ On 8/28/2023 2:37 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 --Chuck I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if you charged $n instead." It's not an illogical tactic. Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 1:46 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > > > Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally > rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 > > --Chuck > I think some Ebay sellers simply overpriced an item when they know it's probably valuable but they're not sure how much to sell for. They will wait for people to contact and say, "your price is way too high, you might sell if you charged $n instead." It's not an illogical tactic. Bill >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
On 8/28/23 10:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > It can be yours for only $15,000 plus shipping > https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067408991 > Well, if that doesn't fancy your tickle, you can have an equally rough-looking Morrow MD-1 for only $3500. https://www.ebay.com/itm/126067197438 --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/L $15,000
"not tested" and "mice have been inside of it". sheesh ** 2. mcl
