Re: Sean Corfield left Adobe (was: Project Time Tracking Software?

[John C. Bland II]

Congrats on the new move Sean. I'm sure you'll do well.

On 5/24/07, Sean Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 5/23/07, Adam Churvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Best of luck with everything, Sean.  Give me a link to your resume and
> I'll
> > try to send people your way.
>
> http://corfield.org/resume (surprisingly :)
>
> > What is the nature of your health promotion service?  Sounds intriguing.
>
> You'll have to wait until we launch in the summer. We're soft
> launching to a couple of clients in the next few weeks and then
> publicly launching in a couple of months.
>
> Fusebox 5.1 + ColdSpring + Transfer. Plus Galleon for forums (reworked
> as a Fusebox application).
> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
> 

~|
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Re: save bitmap data from flash

[John C. Bland II]

No sweat. Not many used it in 8, me included, but folks like Grant Skinner,
etc have used it heavily.

On 3/15/07, Kevin Aebig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Oops. You're absolutely right. It is available in 8.
>
> Thanks,
>
> !k
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:52 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: save bitmap data from flash
>
> Kevin, incorrect. BitmapData was introduced in Flash 8 and has been
> available for a while now. I didn't use it much in 8 but have, recently,
> in
> Flex and I assume it is just as easy in Flash 8.
>
> On 3/14/07, Kevin Aebig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > As I mentioned before, it can be done. It's no easy task and would
> require
> > AS3 (Currently Flex2 Compiler) to properly compile with bitmap Data
> > support.
> >
> > For more information, you might want to post to chattyfig's FlashCoders
> > mailing list...
> >
> > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com
> >
> > !k
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: E C list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:08 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: save bitmap data from flash
> >
> > I am interested in this too.  What I would like to do
> > is make a small
> > "signature" area for contracts...sales people would
> > take their tablet PCs
> > out in the field, get a signature directly on a
> > contract generated by
> > ColdFusion 7.  I would like to make it so either a
> > button on my flash 8
> > signature widget would save the signature file to the
> > server or just when an
> > HTML form associated with the contract is submitted,
> > the signature would be
> > uploaded to the server and then incorporated as part
> > of a PDF file of the
> > contract with CFDOCUMENT.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tim Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:53 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: save bitmap data from flash
> >
> > Does anyone know of some code I can use to parse a
> > bitmap data string from
> > flash and save it as a bmp or jpg on the server?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: save bitmap data from flash

[John C. Bland II]

Kevin, incorrect. BitmapData was introduced in Flash 8 and has been
available for a while now. I didn't use it much in 8 but have, recently, in
Flex and I assume it is just as easy in Flash 8.

On 3/14/07, Kevin Aebig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As I mentioned before, it can be done. It's no easy task and would require
> AS3 (Currently Flex2 Compiler) to properly compile with bitmap Data
> support.
>
> For more information, you might want to post to chattyfig's FlashCoders
> mailing list...
>
> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com
>
> !k
>
> -Original Message-
> From: E C list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:08 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: save bitmap data from flash
>
> I am interested in this too.  What I would like to do
> is make a small
> "signature" area for contracts...sales people would
> take their tablet PCs
> out in the field, get a signature directly on a
> contract generated by
> ColdFusion 7.  I would like to make it so either a
> button on my flash 8
> signature widget would save the signature file to the
> server or just when an
> HTML form associated with the contract is submitted,
> the signature would be
> uploaded to the server and then incorporated as part
> of a PDF file of the
> contract with CFDOCUMENT.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:53 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: save bitmap data from flash
>
> Does anyone know of some code I can use to parse a
> bitmap data string from
> flash and save it as a bmp or jpg on the server?
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: hiding url variables

[John C. Bland II]

URL params are always editable regardless of what you do. If you're worried
about data errors or sql injections, you can validate every url var.
isNumeric() handles all numeric url params. Run it through isNumeric, check
your database for data, redirect/show message if there is no data.

Another option is to use URL rewriting. That way,
?myurl=1&myrul2-blah becomes mysite.com/myurl/1/myrul2/blah OR
mysite.com/myfile.cfm/myurl/1/myrul2/blah. Search for Ray Camden's URL
Rewriting function, it is handy.

Bottom line, no exact science here. It depends on your
needs/situation/preference(s).

On 1/28/07, Scott Pinkston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This page describes encrypting all of the url variables so
> ?myurl=1&myrul2-blah would display like ?43924j423oi490fsd89yg438
>
> The next page decrypts the variables and puts them back into the url
> scope.
>
> http://www.cfdan.com/posts/Securing_your_applications_URL_variables.cfm
>
>
> Might help.
>
>
> >How about instead of appending the variable and using a
> >hidden field.
> >
> >Terry
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Richard White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:44 PM
> >To: CF-Talk
> >Subject: hiding url variables
> >
> >Hi, i have a cfm page that uses a javascript function to
> >append a variable to a url. I then use the coldfusion url
> >variable set to collect the variable in the receiving cfm
> >page.
> >
> >however, the variable data is being displayed in the address
> >bar in the browser. is there anyway to hide the variable
> >data so that it doesn't show in the address bar?
> >
> >thanks very much for any help
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: What is Ruby on Rails?

[John C. Bland II]

Ruby is a programming language (from the 90's or so) that was used a lot as
an alternative to perl server scripts. A few years back a framework was
built that gave RoR tons of publicity. I think some of the shine came off
when they had a gaping security hole in which they demanded that people
upgrade to the latest revision (was kinda funny the way they approached it).
In 2 or 3 days they pushed out like 2 or 3 patches. Regardless of that it is
still a very lightweight, fast, and speedy (to dev' in) language/framework.

On 1/14/07, Ali Majdzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone: I was surfing and suddenly saw the site
> http://www.rubyonrails.org/
> It looks it is some sort of frame work! Is it compatible or usefull in C
> applications?
> Thanks
> Ali
>
> 

~|
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Re: SOT: dynamically generating .flv files on upload

[John C. Bland II]

Look into ffmpeg. It is a very easy to use command line tool that can
convert almost anything to anything else (audio and video). Very nice tool.

On 12/8/06, Will Swain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I want to allow users to upload video files which I will then convert
> automatically to .flv files. If I have a copy of quicktime pro with the
> FLV
> QuickTime Export plug-in installed on the server, is it possible to do
> this
> using CF to manage the uploads and conversion? Anyone done anything like
> this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Firebug 1.0 Beta is Out

[John C. Bland II]

I'm with Ray...ServiceCapture is an amazingly nice tool. Fiddler is OK but
no Flash Remoting support.

I do have the IE Dev Toolbar but there is no JS support. :-( If I had it I
wouldn't need FF (except for testing).


On 12/4/06, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Man I wish I could John. For IE 7, checkout this from Microsoft:
>
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=e59c3964-672d-4511-bb3e-2d5e1db91038&displaylang=en
>
> and then use this for HTTP debugging:
>
> http://www.fiddlertool.com/fiddler/
>
> What I do is develop using Firefox (which gives me FireBug) and then
> test and tweak in both FF and IE 6/7.
>
> HTH.
>
> Rey...
>
> John C. Bland II wrote:
> > Rey, make this work in IE 7 and you'll be a hero! :-) Looks like a great
> app
> > though.
> >
> > On 12/4/06, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Guys, I posted this on my blog but since I haven't reached reader levels
> >>on par with Ben Forta, Vince Bonfanti, Rob Ghonda or Sean Corfield, I
> >>figured I'd let you guys know.
> >>
> >>If you've been doing any form of Ajax development, you know how
> >>invaluable an HTTP sniffer & DOM inspector is. And quite honestly, I've
> >>found none better than the FireBug extension in FireFox to handle these
> >>tasks. Its a nice little plugin that sits unobtrusively until you need
> it.
> >>
> >>Well, Joe Hewitt, the author of FireBug, has released an open beta of
> >>the anxiously awaited FireBug 1.0. This is a MAJOR revamp of the
> >>original version and a must download if you're doing any type of Ajax,
> >>CSS or DOM manipulation. Trust me when I tell you that this plugin is
> >>invaluable and you will end up using it all of the time.
> >>
> >>http://www.getfirebug.com/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Firebug 1.0 Beta is Out

[John C. Bland II]

Rey, make this work in IE 7 and you'll be a hero! :-) Looks like a great app
though.

On 12/4/06, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Guys, I posted this on my blog but since I haven't reached reader levels
> on par with Ben Forta, Vince Bonfanti, Rob Ghonda or Sean Corfield, I
> figured I'd let you guys know.
>
> If you've been doing any form of Ajax development, you know how
> invaluable an HTTP sniffer & DOM inspector is. And quite honestly, I've
> found none better than the FireBug extension in FireFox to handle these
> tasks. Its a nice little plugin that sits unobtrusively until you need it.
>
> Well, Joe Hewitt, the author of FireBug, has released an open beta of
> the anxiously awaited FireBug 1.0. This is a MAJOR revamp of the
> original version and a must download if you're doing any type of Ajax,
> CSS or DOM manipulation. Trust me when I tell you that this plugin is
> invaluable and you will end up using it all of the time.
>
> http://www.getfirebug.com/
>
> 

~|
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Re: More reasons to hate Internet Explorer

[John C. Bland II]

What version are they referring to?

On 12/2/06, Rick Root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From the SquirrelMail ANNOUNCE mailing list (they released v1.4.9 today)
>
> > We've also changed SquirrelMail attachment handling to work around an
> > issue in Internet Explorer: the browser will attempt to guess the MIME
> > type of attachments based on content, not the MIME header we send.
> > Attachments could fake to be an 'harmless' image/jpeg, while they were
> > in fact HTML that Internet Explorer would render.
>
> Or VBScript?
>
> I don't know what their workaround is.  I suspect that Squirrelmail is
> verifying that the attachments are actually binary, and don't decode to
> HTML...
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

lol. That's how it goes. Force others to use what we like. I do it often
with my family (who hits me up like I own Geek Squad). :-)

On 12/1/06, Tom Chiverton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thursday 30 November 2006 20:35, John C. Bland II wrote:
> > That's not bad for One Care. Think about it...other than geeks, how
> often
> > do people buy new virus software?
>
> Buy ? Never.
> I had Norton because my bank gave it away for free, but it got s
> bloated
> and slow, and then they wanted money of me, so I moved to AVG.
> As did everyone I do the 'friendly geek' tech support for.
>
> --
> Tom Chiverton
> Helping to administratively deliver global bandwidth
>
> 
>
> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
>
> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
> and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address
> is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
> available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
> partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
> Regulated by the Law Society.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
>
> This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
> may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
> must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
> nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
> existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
> delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.
>
> For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
>
>
> 

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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

and compiling/caching the site on the fly (vs a dll) and the same for the
swf (with Flex Data Services) is similar as well. I did see a correlation
between ASP.NET and Flex 2 development in the early Flex stages.

On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Patrick is correct in what I meant.
>
> Also, consider Flex development as the closest thing to code behind
> development as you can get to .Net.  You have a graphic stage with visual
> controls that correspond to code components.  So, if you use CF for your
> webservice layer or remote object, then CF can be related to the .Net
> development environment, but only in that arena.
>
> Also, the idea of deploying a compiled SWF versus deploying a compiled DLL
> is also pretty close in relation.
>
> Teddy
>
> On 11/30/06, Patrick McElhaney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I think he meant to reply to my message, specifically this part.
> >
> > "Instead of web apps moving in the direction of desktop apps, I'm
> > seeing the opposite. Desktop apps are beginning to pick up patterns
> > from web apps."
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hrmm...I get the feeling this post was an accident. :-) (wrong
> thread?)
> > :-D
> > >
> > > On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well, Adobe Apollo will provide you the ability to run Flex
> > applications
> > > > from your desktop.  As long as you have an internet connection,
> Apollo
> > can
> > > > references the same webservices as your Web Flex application has
> > access
> > > > to.
> > > > Apollo also has access to your system's file system to make it
> easier
> > to
> > > > interact with your application instead of sending system requests
> over
> > > > your
> > > > network whenever you want to do a file upload.
> > > >
> > > > So the trend for applications for the realm of Adobe products seems
> to
> > be
> > > > a hybrid one that would not make one or the other obsolete.
> > > >
> > > > Teddy
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Patrick McElhaney
> > 704.560.9117
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

Oh, my bad. I looked over a couple but didn't see any relevance. I'll stand
down. ;-)

On 11/30/06, Patrick McElhaney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think he meant to reply to my message, specifically this part.
>
> "Instead of web apps moving in the direction of desktop apps, I'm
> seeing the opposite. Desktop apps are beginning to pick up patterns
> from web apps."
>
> Patrick
>
>
> On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hrmm...I get the feeling this post was an accident. :-) (wrong thread?)
> :-D
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, Adobe Apollo will provide you the ability to run Flex
> applications
> > > from your desktop.  As long as you have an internet connection, Apollo
> can
> > > references the same webservices as your Web Flex application has
> access
> > > to.
> > > Apollo also has access to your system's file system to make it easier
> to
> > > interact with your application instead of sending system requests over
> > > your
> > > network whenever you want to do a file upload.
> > >
> > > So the trend for applications for the realm of Adobe products seems to
> be
> > > a hybrid one that would not make one or the other obsolete.
> > >
> > > Teddy
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick McElhaney
> 704.560.9117
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

No, it doesn't come on Vista. Well, RC2 didn't have it. One Care 1.5 is for
Vista. It is currently in beta.

On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The One Care is a member service, so it has your credentials and your
> account identifier.  One Car was made to avoid installing new software as
> it
> has a software upate service similar to the windows update.  Also, there
> is
> a member identifier that should allow you to use the product with Vista if
> you upgrade your windows XP to Vista.  I could not find the marketing
> materials for the Vista version or if it pre-deployed with Vista or not.
>
> My laptop is Vista capable, so I may upgrade after the proverbial first
> service pack is released.
>
> Teddy
>
> On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > That's not bad for One Care. Think about it...other than geeks, how
> often
> > do
> > people buy new virus software? My mom had Norton's 2001 or 2002 until
> she
> > brought her PC down on her last trip. Her virus definitions weren't
> > updated
> > because she didn't understand what they were trying to make her pay. So,
> > old
> > software and no updated definitions. One Care gets you the updated
> > software
> > and definitions all under 1 umbrella fee, right? Not bad. I wonder how
> > they'll handle One Care v2 costs (have to pay again or auto-update).
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > One Care has a 90-day free trial and after the trial, the service is
> > > marketed at $49/year, so about $4 per month.  Considering that
> Symantec
> > et
> > > all charge for the live update service after 18 months, you can
> probably
> > > break about even.
> > >
> > > You can avoid the liveupdate cost by upgrading your software every 18
> > > months
> > > which is not uncommon as you want the most current methodologies to
> try
> > at
> > > least counteract the known viruses available.
> > >
> > > One Care as been pretty lightweight thus far.  I disliked Symantec in
> > the
> > > past as it kept thinking Java was a virus.  The notifications for
> > > applications requesting access to the internet have been non-evasive
> > > unlike
> > > Symantec which injects a graphic window to prompt you.  If you are in
> a
> > > full
> > > screen application, you can get a rude awakening.
> > >
> > > Teddy
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ahh...my bad Jacob. Vista is more secure though so I understand what
> > > Dave
> > > > and them are saying. If the (virus) app can't do something crazy
> (edit
> > > the
> > > > registry, delete files, etc) without user approval, then the virus
> is
> > > dead
> > > > WITHOUT the users input (which is the biggest problem but at least
> > they
> > > > will
> > > > be notified of potential issues now).
> > > >
> > > > No, One Care is separate and costs.
> > > >
> > > > On 11/30/06, Munson, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > One last thing (Jacob Munson), Vista can't be compared to a
> > > > > > virus protection
> > > > > > application (Norton's, etc). That is what they do...manage virus
> > > > > > definitions. Vista is the OS. If Vista has a hole, MSFT will
> > > > > > fix it. If a
> > > > > > new virus comes out, MSFT will update One Care's virus
> > > > > > definitions (a virus
> > > > > > protecting program).
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you got confused, John.  I was NOT comparing Vista to
> Virus
> > > > > protection, but that is what Microsoft and Dave were doing, but
> > > stating
> > > > > that you DON'T need virus protection with Vista.  Their argument
> was
> > > > > that Vista is strong enough to protect against ALL future virus
> > > attacks,
> > > > > and therefore antivirus software is redundant and unnecessary.  I
> > > > > strongly disagree, and from what you said, I think you and I are
> on
> > > the
> > > > > same page here.  Now, was Microsoft including One Care in their
> > > blanket
> > > > > statement that Vista 

Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

Hrmm...I get the feeling this post was an accident. :-) (wrong thread?) :-D

On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well, Adobe Apollo will provide you the ability to run Flex applications
> from your desktop.  As long as you have an internet connection, Apollo can
> references the same webservices as your Web Flex application has access
> to.
> Apollo also has access to your system's file system to make it easier to
> interact with your application instead of sending system requests over
> your
> network whenever you want to do a file upload.
>
> So the trend for applications for the realm of Adobe products seems to be
> a hybrid one that would not make one or the other obsolete.
>
> Teddy
>
>
> On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, you could rewrite all html controls and CF controls (which rewrite
> > html one's) using tags but you're right...there is no value. Yet in
> still,
> > this won't solve a code-behind desire. runat="server" all you
> want...you'd
> > have to still instantiate a CFC or in app.cfc set the values of the
> > element.
> > The prob is, from what I know of CF, you can't control any page element
> > after the page has been included (either direct or via app.cfm/cfc).
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dave, I'd have to disagree with you here. ASP.NET's
> > > > code-behind is sweet feature. Yes, it helps desktop
> > > > developers transition but the things you can do in a
> > > > code-behind are VERY nice, which CF can't do.
> > > >
> > > > For instance:
> > > > - The different steps of a page loading you have access over
> > > > (much more than App.cfc gives you)
> > > > - Controlling page elements (with runat="server") from the
> > > > code-behind at the different parts of the page loading
> > > > - 100% complete separation of code and visuals (no
> > > > instantiation of objects, etc at the top of the page...they
> > > > are already there)
> > >
> > > You do know you can rewrite every HTML tag as a CF custom tag, right?
> > You
> > > simply point CFIMPORT to a directory containing form.cfm, a.cfm, etc.
> > >
> > > That gets me  if I want it. You could mimic
> enough
> > of
> > > what ASP.NET does in code-behind, if you wanted to - I just don't see
> a
> > > compelling reason to do so.
> > >
> > > I don't dislike code-behind, I just don't see any value in trying to
> > > translate that model into CF.
> > >
> > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> > > http://www.figleaf.com/
> > >
> > > Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> > > instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> > > Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> > > Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

That's not bad for One Care. Think about it...other than geeks, how often do
people buy new virus software? My mom had Norton's 2001 or 2002 until she
brought her PC down on her last trip. Her virus definitions weren't updated
because she didn't understand what they were trying to make her pay. So, old
software and no updated definitions. One Care gets you the updated software
and definitions all under 1 umbrella fee, right? Not bad. I wonder how
they'll handle One Care v2 costs (have to pay again or auto-update).

On 11/30/06, Teddy Payne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> One Care has a 90-day free trial and after the trial, the service is
> marketed at $49/year, so about $4 per month.  Considering that Symantec et
> all charge for the live update service after 18 months, you can probably
> break about even.
>
> You can avoid the liveupdate cost by upgrading your software every 18
> months
> which is not uncommon as you want the most current methodologies to try at
> least counteract the known viruses available.
>
> One Care as been pretty lightweight thus far.  I disliked Symantec in the
> past as it kept thinking Java was a virus.  The notifications for
> applications requesting access to the internet have been non-evasive
> unlike
> Symantec which injects a graphic window to prompt you.  If you are in a
> full
> screen application, you can get a rude awakening.
>
> Teddy
>
>
> On 11/30/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Ahh...my bad Jacob. Vista is more secure though so I understand what
> Dave
> > and them are saying. If the (virus) app can't do something crazy (edit
> the
> > registry, delete files, etc) without user approval, then the virus is
> dead
> > WITHOUT the users input (which is the biggest problem but at least they
> > will
> > be notified of potential issues now).
> >
> > No, One Care is separate and costs.
> >
> > On 11/30/06, Munson, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > One last thing (Jacob Munson), Vista can't be compared to a
> > > > virus protection
> > > > application (Norton's, etc). That is what they do...manage virus
> > > > definitions. Vista is the OS. If Vista has a hole, MSFT will
> > > > fix it. If a
> > > > new virus comes out, MSFT will update One Care's virus
> > > > definitions (a virus
> > > > protecting program).
> > >
> > > I think you got confused, John.  I was NOT comparing Vista to Virus
> > > protection, but that is what Microsoft and Dave were doing, but
> stating
> > > that you DON'T need virus protection with Vista.  Their argument was
> > > that Vista is strong enough to protect against ALL future virus
> attacks,
> > > and therefore antivirus software is redundant and unnecessary.  I
> > > strongly disagree, and from what you said, I think you and I are on
> the
> > > same page here.  Now, was Microsoft including One Care in their
> blanket
> > > statement that Vista won't need virus protection?  I don't
> know.  Maybe
> > > not, and their whole point was that you don't need /3rd party/ virus
> > > protection.  But I thought I heard somewhere that Microsoft is not
> going
> > > to include their virus scanner with Vista by default?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
> > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> > confidential
> > > and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> > copying,
> > > distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including
> any
> > > reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
> > transmission
> > > in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the
> material
> > in
> > > its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ==
> > > "EMF " made the previous annotations.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

Yeah, you could rewrite all html controls and CF controls (which rewrite
html one's) using tags but you're right...there is no value. Yet in still,
this won't solve a code-behind desire. runat="server" all you want...you'd
have to still instantiate a CFC or in app.cfc set the values of the element.
The prob is, from what I know of CF, you can't control any page element
after the page has been included (either direct or via app.cfm/cfc).

On 11/30/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dave, I'd have to disagree with you here. ASP.NET's
> > code-behind is sweet feature. Yes, it helps desktop
> > developers transition but the things you can do in a
> > code-behind are VERY nice, which CF can't do.
> >
> > For instance:
> > - The different steps of a page loading you have access over
> > (much more than App.cfc gives you)
> > - Controlling page elements (with runat="server") from the
> > code-behind at the different parts of the page loading
> > - 100% complete separation of code and visuals (no
> > instantiation of objects, etc at the top of the page...they
> > are already there)
>
> You do know you can rewrite every HTML tag as a CF custom tag, right? You
> simply point CFIMPORT to a directory containing form.cfm, a.cfm, etc.
>
> That gets me  if I want it. You could mimic enough of
> what ASP.NET does in code-behind, if you wanted to - I just don't see a
> compelling reason to do so.
>
> I don't dislike code-behind, I just don't see any value in trying to
> translate that model into CF.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

Ahh...my bad Jacob. Vista is more secure though so I understand what Dave
and them are saying. If the (virus) app can't do something crazy (edit the
registry, delete files, etc) without user approval, then the virus is dead
WITHOUT the users input (which is the biggest problem but at least they will
be notified of potential issues now).

No, One Care is separate and costs.

On 11/30/06, Munson, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > One last thing (Jacob Munson), Vista can't be compared to a
> > virus protection
> > application (Norton's, etc). That is what they do...manage virus
> > definitions. Vista is the OS. If Vista has a hole, MSFT will
> > fix it. If a
> > new virus comes out, MSFT will update One Care's virus
> > definitions (a virus
> > protecting program).
>
> I think you got confused, John.  I was NOT comparing Vista to Virus
> protection, but that is what Microsoft and Dave were doing, but stating
> that you DON'T need virus protection with Vista.  Their argument was
> that Vista is strong enough to protect against ALL future virus attacks,
> and therefore antivirus software is redundant and unnecessary.  I
> strongly disagree, and from what you said, I think you and I are on the
> same page here.  Now, was Microsoft including One Care in their blanket
> statement that Vista won't need virus protection?  I don't know.  Maybe
> not, and their whole point was that you don't need /3rd party/ virus
> protection.  But I thought I heard somewhere that Microsoft is not going
> to include their virus scanner with Vista by default?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
> reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission
> in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in
> its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
> ==
> "EMF " made the previous annotations.
>
> 

~|
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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

Aaron, that doesn't even come close. You're creating a Page_Load method in
your cfc that YOU have to invoke.




Also, what is your request.resultLabel? Text on the cfm page or just a
variable? Your cfm has a #request.resultLabel# being output somewhere,
right?

You wrote VB so I assume you know everything else that Label allows you to
manipulate (style, size, etc). The control isn't there for CF like
ASP.NETin code-behinds which is why CF doesn't can't fully mimic the
code-behind. I
would agree with Dave here...this is an ASP.NET thing and CF can't follow;
and I'll add, with just code and not actual CF updates.

On 11/29/06, Aaron Roberson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > That's one that uses a MasterPage as well (from a site I'm building
> right
> > now). Mind you, VS takes care of this.  Yet in still, you can't control
> the
> > page in the component or tag in CF like you can in ASP.NET.
>
> Why not?
>
> All you have to do is invoke an object and init the constructor (even
> if you do not pass anything to the constructor) at the top of the
> ColdFusion template page.
>
> Page directive in ASP.NET:
> <%@ Page Language="VB" AutoEventWireup="false"
> CodeFile="Default.aspx.vb" Inherits="_Default" %>
>
> Page directive in CF:
> 
>
> For Code-Behind in ASP.NET:
>
> Partial Class _Default
> Protected Sub Page_Load(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As
> System.EventArgs) Handles Me.Load
>resultLabel.Text = Application("userCount")
> End Sub
> End Class
>
> For Code-Behind in CF:
> 
> 
> 
>  
>
> 

~|
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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

If CodeFile="MyFile.cs" is what you mean, yeah.


<%@ Page Language="C#" MasterPageFile="~/MasterPages/Main.master"
AutoEventWireup="true" CodeFile="Default.aspx.cs" Inherits="_Default"
Title="Untitled
Page" %>
That's one that uses a MasterPage as well (from a site I'm building right
now). Mind you, VS takes care of this.  Yet in still, you can't control the
page in the component or tag in CF like you can in ASP.NET.

I don't wanna start a flame war of ASP.NET and CF. Bottom line, code-behind
is not the same as invoking a tag or component in CF.

On 11/29/06, Aaron Roberson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > - 100% complete separation of code and visuals (no instantiation of
> objects,
> > etc at the top of the page...they are already there)
>
> In .NET you have to supply a page directive for the .cs file, which is
> similar to instantiating an object at the top of a CF page if all of
> the control is encapsulated in the object.
>
> -Aaron
>
> 

~|
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Re: Mimicking .NET Code-Behind for ColdFusion Controllers

[John C. Bland II]

Dave, I'd have to disagree with you here. ASP.NET's code-behind is sweet
feature. Yes, it helps desktop developers transition but the things you can
do in a code-behind are VERY nice, which CF can't do.

For instance:
- The different steps of a page loading you have access over (much more than
App.cfc gives you)
- Controlling page elements (with runat="server") from the code-behind at
the different parts of the page loading
- 100% complete separation of code and visuals (no instantiation of objects,
etc at the top of the page...they are already there)

Mind you, I'm not putting one against the other (we saw a couple months back
where that can go). I'm merely stating the code-behind is a nice feature.
Especially when you put 1 .cs to multiple .aspx's. You can create multiple
cfcs or custom tags but you don't get the same level of granularity or
control over a loaded page.

BTW, I still love CF. :-)

On 11/29/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > What I am wondering is what some of those who are experienced
> > with ColdFusion and OOP think about using the code-behind
> > technique for the controller layer in an MVC application?
>
> Before I respond to this, I should qualify my ASP.NET experience; I
> wouldn't
> call myself an ASP.NET expert. I am, at best, a mediocre ASP.NETdeveloper.
>
> That said, when you develop an application in ASP.NET using Visual
> Studio.NET, the programming model or framework that you're given relies on
> postback forms to provide an illusion that web applications work like
> desktop applications do. You need code-behind classes because you spend so
> much time on a single screen, even though that "screen" might correspond
> to
> several steps within your application, which are wired together via the
> postback form. Before ASP.NET, "classic" ASP didn't have code-behind - you
> either wrote external COM objects and invoked them from ASP, or you wrote
> your code inline.
>
> Without that model, code-behind classes by themselves don't bring much to
> the table. You could just as easily write plain ol' components, and invoke
> them however you like, from your CF pages, without a one-to-one
> correspondence between pages and components. After all, your "form
> validation and such" is stuff that would likely be common across your
> application (or across multiple applications) rather than being specific
> to
> a page.
>
> Personally, I prefer the simpler model of CF development; this is probably
> because I didn't have years of desktop application development under my
> belt
> before learning web development.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

Tom, have you even seen or worked with Vista, specifically UAC? You have
strong opinions about Vista but it doesn't sound like you're speaking from
present knowledge. Just curious here.

To clear one thing up, Vista WILL NOT come with UAC turned off on ANY box.
An app can't auto-elevate itself. It runs in the "sandbox" given and if it
needs to do something with elevated needs, UAC will stop it and ask you if
it is ok.

One last thing (Jacob Munson), Vista can't be compared to a virus protection
application (Norton's, etc). That is what they do...manage virus
definitions. Vista is the OS. If Vista has a hole, MSFT will fix it. If a
new virus comes out, MSFT will update One Care's virus definitions (a virus
protecting program).

On 11/29/06, Tom Chiverton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 29 November 2006 16:02, Dave Watts wrote:
> > If by "broken" you mean "makes things more difficult for the
> > user", well, yes, I guess it's broken. I'm using Vista RC1. Can you
> explain
> > what you mean by that?
>
> It's Just Another Box.
> Users will click it and type their usernames without reading it, because
> they
> are users.
> Or software will fake the box (trusted path not withstanding, this is
> Windows), get the password, and elevate itself.
>
> I'm with Jacob - it doesn't matter how flash and secure Vista is. It's
> software. It'll have problems. MS will fix them, once a month, or not. In
> the
> mean time the only thing that'll stop yet another Windows virus outbreak
> is
> having Anti-everything installed.
>
> --
> Tom Chiverton
> Helping to dramatically generate network methodologies
>
> 
>
> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
>
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> may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

You may not want to open that bag of worms. lol.

Plee:
Please don't start a Linux vs Windows flame war.


On 11/28/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> argue blindly maybe :-)
>
> There are plenty of holes in the security of default Linux installations
> and
> just as many viruses/Trojans written specifically with Linux in mind.
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:06 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)
>
> Linux users would argue otherwise :-)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 28 November 2006 22:13
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)
>
> Aren't all comps open to hack/attacks...
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Munson, Jacob
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Tue Nov 28 21:56:27 2006
> Subject: RE: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)
>
> > They actually let hackers take a shot at Vista this summer and rave
> > reviews came out of it. I think 1 person was able to trick UAC but
> > this was in...hrmmm...I think Beta 2. That hole was covered in the
> > next major release.
>
> See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I have no doubt that Vista
> will be more secure than XP, merely because of the non-admin user thing.
> But there /will/ be holes that allow hackers to bypass the UAC stuff.
> Mark my words.  Will antivirus programs solve this?  They could, but like
> Dave pointed out you still have to have updated virus definitions (which
> should be automated anyway).
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> --
>
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
> reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
> transmission
> in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
> in
> its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
> 
> ==
> "EMF " made the previous annotations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

lol. Yeah, they always do. :-D

On 11/28/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Linux users would argue otherwise :-)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 28 November 2006 22:13
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)
>
> Aren't all comps open to hack/attacks...
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Munson, Jacob
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Tue Nov 28 21:56:27 2006
> Subject: RE: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)
>
> > They actually let hackers take a shot at Vista this summer and rave
> > reviews came out of it. I think 1 person was able to trick UAC but
> > this was in...hrmmm...I think Beta 2. That hole was covered in the
> > next major release.
>
> See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I have no doubt that Vista
> will be more secure than XP, merely because of the non-admin user thing.
> But there /will/ be holes that allow hackers to bypass the UAC stuff.
> Mark my words.  Will antivirus programs solve this?  They could, but like
> Dave pointed out you still have to have updated virus definitions (which
> should be automated anyway).
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> --
>
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
> reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
> transmission
> in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
> in
> its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
> 
> ==
> "EMF " made the previous annotations.
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

Yeah, but some of the best hackers couldn't get through. Only 1 did, which
is amazing taking the history of Windows. The 1 that got through even gave
great praise for the new system. If I can find the email/post, I will post
it here. I just have no idea where it came from.

Windows, OS X, etc are all open to viruses and hackers. It is all about the
person using the system and what they allow. (to simplify what Dave has
stated a couple times)

On 11/28/06, Munson, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They actually let hackers take a shot at Vista this summer
> > and rave reviews
> > came out of it. I think 1 person was able to trick UAC but this was
> > in...hrmmm...I think Beta 2. That hole was covered in the next major
> > release.
>
> See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I have no doubt that Vista
> will be more secure than XP, merely because of the non-admin user thing.
> But there /will/ be holes that allow hackers to bypass the UAC stuff.
> Mark my words.  Will antivirus programs solve this?  They could, but
> like Dave pointed out you still have to have updated virus definitions
> (which should be automated anyway).
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
> and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
> reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission
> in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in
> its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
> ==
> "EMF " made the previous annotations.
>
> 

~|
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Re: Vista (was: CrystalTech outage?)

[John C. Bland II]

They actually let hackers take a shot at Vista this summer and rave reviews
came out of it. I think 1 person was able to trick UAC but this was
in...hrmmm...I think Beta 2. That hole was covered in the next major
release.

I'd definitely say Vista is more secure and agree with Dave's statements. I
have been on Vista for 9 months and without virus protection almost 2 with
no worries at all for any of the first 7 months. Well, at first I was a bit
worried but as time went on I grew much more comfortable. In October I
installed One Care 1.5 (beta) and have been using it since. The combination
of One Care and Vista seems great. One Care has some growing to do in the
firewall but it takes care of my pc's very nicely (with automatic updates of
all sorts of drivers, automatic backups, scans, etc). I'm not putting it
against Norton's or anything but it runs in the background and keeps my tidy
with no interaction at all, ever.

On 11/28/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I think that the changes that Microsoft have made in Vista
> > are awesome, but they won't stop the Trojans that take
> > advantage of security vulnerabilities.  Unless you think that
> > Vista won't have any security holes (yeah right).  The
> > average user that is prone to let their PC become a zombie
> > doesn't apply patches.  So the first big security hole that
> > is exploited will spawn a whole batch  Vista zombies.  Hence
> > why it's important to run antivirus.
>
> Viruses aren't, by definition, simply exploits that take advantage of
> existing vulnerabilities. They typically require user intervention. If a
> user doesn't have the ability to run unapproved executables, then the user
> can't run the executable containing the virus. Preventing a user from
> running a program that may or may not contain a virus is a much more
> effective countermeasure than trying to detect the virus when a user runs
> a
> program; especially if, as you noted, people don't keep their machines
> (including virus signatures) up to date.
>
> And, of course, patches generally don't protect you from trojans and
> viruses, which again typically require user intervention and permissions.
> If
> I run an executable program, and I have adequate permissions to allow that
> program to do whatever it wants to do, there's no patch for that. Patches
> are much more important when it comes to protecting against remote
> exploits,
> but a firewall is a more reliable protection against that sort of thing.
>
> So, to the extent that Vista's UAC prompting actually makes people think
> about what they're doing, it will, in fact, stop trojans, which like
> viruses
> rely on people running programs within a privileged security context. If,
> on
> the other hand, people disable this or just click through it without
> thinking, then we're back where we started, and no amount of antivirus
> software will prevent it.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
>
> 

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Re: Crystal Tech or HostMySite? That's my problem!!!

[John C. Bland II]

Yes, you'd need a dedicated box for that. CT has them at a pretty nice price
too. Very good for starter situations and they seem solid for larger needs
as well.

On 11/28/06, Tom Chiverton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 28 November 2006 09:53, Ali Majdzadeh wrote:
> > I need FDS.
>
> AFAIK noone offers hosted FDS.
>
> --
> Tom Chiverton
> Helping to dramatically introduce B2C networks
>
> 
>
> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
>
> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
> and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address
> is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
> available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
> partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
> Regulated by the Law Society.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
>
> This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and
> may be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
> must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
> nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
> existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
> delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.
>
> For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
>
>
> 

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Re: CrystalTech outage?

[John C. Bland II]

2 of our clients said they are out. We're on dedicated though so that is
good to go (as someone else noted).

On 11/27/06, Ray Champagne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Um, no, I meant if you use the IP of *your* site.  There is no IP to give
> you, only you'd know that.
>
> It's prolly not going to help your customers too much, but you can at
> least
> access your site(s) if you need to.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jeff Langevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 1:51 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CrystalTech outage?
> > Importance: High
> >
> > Can you post the IP address?
> >
> > Ray Champagne wrote:
> > > Looks like if you use the IP, you're good.  Must be some kind of DNS
> > > issue...
> > >
> > > http://www.crystaltech.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16202
> > >
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:58 AM
> > >> To: CF-Talk
> > >> Subject: Re: CrystalTech outage?
> > >> Importance: High
> > >>
> > >> yep, I'm down too.
> > >>
> > >> On 11/27/06, Tom McNeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>> Ray,
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11/27/06, Ray Champagne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Is anyone else experiencing outages for their CrystalTech sites?
> > > Seems
> >  like
> >  none of mine are up as of about 20 minutes ago.
> > >>>
> > >>> Actually, I think it's been almost an hour  and a half. They're
> > > definitely
> > >>> dead in the water. Looks like either a complete power outage or a
> > > complete
> > >>> loss of connectivity, both of which are pretty scary.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Tom
> > >>>
> > >>> Tom McNeer
> > >>> MediumCool
> > >>> http://www.mediumcool.com
> > >>> 1735 Johnson Road NE
> > >>> Atlanta, GA 30306
> > >>> 404.589.0560
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Disappointed in Authorize.Net recently; Looking for new merchant server.

[John C. Bland II]

Very interesting. I never used it so didn't notice it was gone. Bad move,
IMO.

On 11/7/06, Tony Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> That's exactly how it used to work. They no longer offer a post-to url. It
> will reply directly back to the url submitting the information but you
> cannot add a secondary post-to url. What frustrates me about that is that
> even though the site is in the same 'version'. They removed that feature
> without mention and most C.Support will say that the feature never existed
> at all. One told me that it did exist but caused problems for their
> servers.
>
> On 11/1/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious why you don't let CF do the redirect/post/call to the second
> > url. From what I can remember, of the abilities, you can easily set a
> url
> > to
> > post to once the payment was made. I don't know how it works (silent or
> > not)
> > but I know you can do it. I just let Auth.net process and that's it. I
> > control the site through code.
> >
> > On 10/31/06, Tony Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Authorize.net has been nothing but disappointing lately.
> > >
> > > Lackluster performance out of their servers. Errors routinely.
> > > Mis-informed
> > > operators. And the lacking of a good feature.
> > >
> > > I know that many merchant processors model after Authorize.net in the
> > > hopes
> > > that easy migration of shopping carts will make customers migrate.
> > >
> > > I'm looking for a system that supports an AIM-compatible interface
> along
> > > with the ability to add a secondary url that the processor will submit
> > the
> > > data too 'silently'.
> > >
> > > I've been away from Authorize.net for a few years but it does seem
> > they've
> > > dropped in popularity and reliability.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Disappointed in Authorize.Net recently; Looking for new merchant server.

[John C. Bland II]

I'm curious why you don't let CF do the redirect/post/call to the second
url. From what I can remember, of the abilities, you can easily set a url to
post to once the payment was made. I don't know how it works (silent or not)
but I know you can do it. I just let Auth.net process and that's it. I
control the site through code.

On 10/31/06, Tony Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Authorize.net has been nothing but disappointing lately.
>
> Lackluster performance out of their servers. Errors routinely.
> Mis-informed
> operators. And the lacking of a good feature.
>
> I know that many merchant processors model after Authorize.net in the
> hopes
> that easy migration of shopping carts will make customers migrate.
>
> I'm looking for a system that supports an AIM-compatible interface along
> with the ability to add a secondary url that the processor will submit the
> data too 'silently'.
>
> I've been away from Authorize.net for a few years but it does seem they've
> dropped in popularity and reliability.
>
>
> 

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Re: CF_GoogleMap

[John C. Bland II]

Good stuff Blayter. The docs look extensive. I can't wait to see what the
rest of it looks like.

On 10/20/06, John Blayter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> http://www.blayter.com/john/cf_googlemap/
>
> I still need to wrap up some of the documentation and examples but I
> thought I would release what I have so far.
>
> HTH
>
> John
>
> 

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Re: WiFi available at MAX?

[John C. Bland II]

Microsoft had Mix at the Venetian in March. Wifi was great then. Hopefully
Adobe has a similar setup.

I say that to say, the Venetian is read for solid wifi. lol.


On 10/18/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Anyone know if WiFi will be available at the Adobe MAX conference?
>
> I don't know for sure, but it's been available at every prior Macromedia
> conference I've attended. However, it tends to be within a limited area,
> and
> has been somewhat unreliable in my experience.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
>
> 

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Re: WiFi available at MAX?

[John C. Bland II]

There typically is and I wouldn't expect less this time.

On 10/18/06, Ryan Stille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anyone know if WiFi will be available at the Adobe MAX conference?
>
> -Ryan
>
>
>
> 

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Re: Authorize.net processing refunds

[John C. Bland II]

He actually figured it out. (see his last email)

On 10/14/06, Arden Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, refunds work without the need for full CC -- key is having the
> Transaction ID that was used to do the original charge against which you
> want to do a credit/refund  full or partial.
>
> Note that if the charge being refunded has not yet gone to settlement,
> then, you must void out the sale and recharge a balance due.
>
>
> > I'm building my first refund processor for authorize.net, and it acts
> > like it wants the full CC # and the exp date. I do not and will not
> > ever store these anywhere.
> >
> > The docs say you can just send the last 4 digits of the #, the trans
> > ID, and the amount.
> >
> > not having any luck with it yet. I keep getting response code 3 and
> > reason code 6 - Credit card is invalid.
> >
> > Anybody else ever do this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> Will
>
> 

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Re: Authorize.net processing refunds

[John C. Bland II]

lmbo. :-) No prob. We've all done it (or something similar).

On 10/14/06, Will Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Can you paste your code? (just the cfhttp)
>
>
> Duhh again! lol! Dave n bobby are gonna eat this up!
>
> I forgot to change the x_type to CREDIT! LMAO!
>
> Thanks,
> Will
>
> 

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Re: Authorize.net processing refunds

[John C. Bland II]

Can you paste your code? (just the cfhttp)

Here is what the docs say. Are you passing all required fields?

This transaction is also referred to as a "Refund" and indicates to the
gateway that money should flow from the merchant to the customer. The
gateway will accept a credit or a refund request if the transaction
submitted meets the following conditions:
• The transaction is submitted with the ID of the original transaction
against which the credit is being issued (x_trans_id).
• The gateway has a record of the original transaction.
• The original transaction has been settled.
• The sum of the amount submitted in the Credit transaction and all credits
submitted against the original transaction is less than the original
transaction amount.
• The full or last four digits of the credit card number submitted with the
credit transaction match the full or last four digits of the credit card
number used in the original transaction.
• The transaction is submitted within 120 days of the settlement date and
time of the original transaction.
A transaction key is required to submit a credit to the system (i.e.,
x_tran_key should have a valid value when a CREDIT transaction is
submitted).


On 10/14/06, Will Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm building my first refund processor for authorize.net, and it acts like
> it wants the full CC # and the exp date. I do not and will not ever store
> these anywhere.
>
> The docs say you can just send the last 4 digits of the #, the trans ID,
> and the amount.
>
> not having any luck with it yet. I keep getting response code 3 and reason
> code 6 - Credit card is invalid.
>
> Anybody else ever do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Will
>
> 

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Re: Authorize.net integration

[John C. Bland II]

Here's a blog post I did earlier this year:
http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/03/authorizenetcfc_card_charging.html


On 10/13/06, Nick Gleason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I know this topic has been covered recently and unfortunately I didn't
> take
> notes.
>
> We're facing an authorize.net integration and would appreciate learning
> from
> anyone else's experiences or talking to people who have done this before.
>
> If this info would be searchable in the archives, we could certainly look
> there.
>
> Very best,
>
> Nick
>
>
> .
> ..
>
> Nick Gleason | CitySoft, Inc. | http://www.citysoft.com
>
> Direct: (617) 899-5395 | Fax: (617) 507-0444
>
>
> Spend Less >> Do More - Community Enterprise
> combines great features with an affordable price.
>
> .
> ..
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: mySql connector J
>
> Perhaps these may help
> http://russ.michaels.me.uk/index.cfm/2005/10/25/Using-CFMX-with-MySQL-4x-
>
>
> http://russ.michaels.me.uk/index.cfm/2006/3/7/Using-connectorJ-drivers-with-
> MySQL
>
> Russ
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 13 October 2006 01:05
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: mySql connector J
>
> Can someone tell me what they have listed in CF for the mySql connector?
>
> Here is what I have
>
> CF DataSource = myDsn
> JDBC URL = jdbc:mysql://localhost:3306/myDsn Driver Class =
> com.mysql.jdbc.Driver Driver Name = blank Username = ROOT Password =
> ***
>
> I get the following error
>
> Connection verification failed for data source: 
> java.sql.SQLException: No suitable driver available for , please check
> the driver setting in resources file, error: null The root cause was that:
> java.sql.SQLException: No suitable driver available for nexbid, please
> check
> the driver setting in resources file, error: null
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: CF 8 Upgrade Cycle: What's yours?

[John C. Bland II]

Well, I'll chime in with what we'll do.

Whenever CF 8 is fully released, we will install that same day. :-)
Alpha/Beta versions will be installed locally as we have access (and they
work on Vista; for me at least).


On 10/5/06, Trey Rouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 10/3/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > How soon, after release of CF 8, will you upgrade to CF 8?
> > >
> > > Note: This is for research, not just a curious question.
>
>
> Honestly, it is too early to make such a judgement call.  What I mean is
> the
> decision will be largely based upon the feature set enhancements
> introduced.  In such times that we're banging our heads against
> limitations
> of current release (jvm memory caps) and a new release would provide
> immediate relief to those issues, we would look to be early / immediate
> adopters.  Any potential changes to cpu / license / virtualization model
> would also provide a cost / benefit analisys and possible motivation to
> migrate.
>
> However, if the new feature set adds further enhancements without
> remedying
> any of our current critical issues, we will likely wait till after the
> first
> roll-up update, if ever, to upgrade current infrastructure.  Quite
> possibly
> we wont consider the cost of upgrading and the expensive testing around
> that
> until its time to replace the hardware underneath the version as well.
>
> In practice we have never 'upgraded' an existing server pool.  We've
> always
> waited until it was time to allocate new hardware and brought new versions
> online then.  However we've often decided to continue to run old versions
> at
> that point as well.  The decision is always based upon an audit of how
> many
> applications are still running on the pool we will be retiring, and what
> would be the estimated cost in testing and recoding applications for
> compatability.  A decision is made at this point if absorbing that cost
> and
> effort is worth the feature set / benefits of the new version.  Working in
> a
> cost - recovery model, if you don't have built in budget for these cycles
> the path to upgrading is very difficult.
>
> We would like to think that applications come into a upgrade / feature
> enhancement cycle frequently enough that we could address moving them to
> newer version server pools at these times; however, in practice about 30%
> of
> applications deployed on a given pool never reach a upgrade / feature
> enhancement phase and tend to run until the application is no longer
> requireded.  As such, it isn't practicle to assume you can phase out a
> pool
> without a testing / migration cost outside of normal development cycles.
>
> In short, I think if your research can wait until there is atleast a beta
> feature list, I think your data might be more meaningful.  Although I hope
> that some description as to the decision process I've been involved in
> might
> be meaningful to you.
>
> $0.02
>
>
> 

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Re: CF 8 Upgrade Cycle: What's yours?

[John C. Bland II]

I am in no way doing research for Adobe and am in no way affiliated with
Adobe (well, other than being a UG manager). This post is purely out of my
own desire.

On 10/4/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is it expected to be released that soon that we're talking about it
> already?
>
> Senor Forta? Can you provide any input on when it might be ready for beta?
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> --//----->
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:53 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: CF 8 Upgrade Cycle: What's yours?
>
>
> How soon, after release of CF 8, will you upgrade to CF 8?
>
> Note: This is for research, not just a curious question.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> John C. Bland II
> Chief Geek
> Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com
> ---
> Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2
> Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.com
> http://www.lifthimhigh.com - "Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to
> Wear Them"
> Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.org
> Home of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: CF 8 Upgrade Cycle: What's yours?

[John C. Bland II]

lol Ben, Michael D., and Aaron. :-)

On 10/3/06, James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> We are just now upgrading to CF7, which should give you a rough answer...
>
> On 10/4/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How soon, after release of CF 8, will you upgrade to CF 8?
> >
> > Note: This is for research, not just a curious question.
>
> --
> CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
> http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/
>
> 

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CF 8 Upgrade Cycle: What's yours?

[John C. Bland II]

How soon, after release of CF 8, will you upgrade to CF 8?

Note: This is for research, not just a curious question.

Thanks,

-- 
John C. Bland II
Chief Geek
Katapult Media, Inc. - www.katapultmedia.com
---
Biz Blog - http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2
Personal Blog - http://blog.blandfamilyonline.com
http://www.lifthimhigh.com - "Christian Products for Those Bold Enough to
Wear Them"
Home of FMUG.az - http://www.gotoandstop.org
Home of AZCFUG - http://www.azcfug.org


~|
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Coo on 1st agreement.

Yes, you are right. The CSS is not broken. Fix is used very loosely, as is
hack in my vocab.

I have been leaving too many blanket statements (which is what I told
someone else not to do so I'm am 100% guilty there). "I don't know...bug not
found" really means IE 6 does not prevent you from having a cross-browser
site. None of the bugs are out of the scope of the community.

lol @ you fix your css I'll hack mine. :-) I got a good laugh out of that
one. It is semantics, yes. That's all it is. I understand your need to not
let people think false info is true. I do that all the time, hence the many
posts I've had on this thread. I'm a semi-lurker but folks started in about
ASP.NET and were making highly incorrect statements. I couldn't sit idle.
:-) (same for this IE derivation but I simply didn't do as good a job
explaining myself)

Yes, I'm over it. I wasn't trippin' though. Just look at the many battles I
was fighting and long emails I had to keep typing. After awhile it started
getting irritating. I guess I brought it on myself though. It was addicting.
:-)



Yes, I shouldn't have left "definitely" by itself. "That is definitely not a
bug just because it doesn't render properly." That's what I should have said
and it would've saved me a lot of time and carpo'. :-) That was my main
issue. He made it seem like JUST because it didn't render properly, he
called MSFT to complain about a bug OR it is a bug JUST because it didn't
render right. That's where I drew the line. :-D Your interpretation of what
I wrote was 100% correct.

I tell you though, these lists really do make you check yourself. You have
to type to cover yourself or you get flamed or end up improperly flaming
someone. This weekend, as I noticed reading over my posts, I talked like it
was a verbal conversation where tone, inflection, etc are available and can
help lead a convo or explain a though.

I'll work on it. :-)

On 10/1/06, Mark Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > CSS developers aren't considered such unless they can make
> > things work cross-browser. Would you agree?
>
> Agreed, no arguments there.
>
> > Even if you
> > don't, that is my take. I won't hire anyone for XHTML/CSS
> > unless they can work cross-browser. So, again...fix your CSS.
>
> This is where we differ in opinion slightly, but ultimately our
> objective is the same - CSS that works consistently cross-browser. I'd
> prefer the term *hack* (as I previously used) as opposed to fix. Fix by
> definition implies something is broken, and in this case it isn't the
> CSS. Semantics here really, but that's my take.
>
> John wrote:
> > I don't know of a "bug" or
> > feature that a hack hasn't been discovered.
>
> And Jochem wrote:
> > And how do you know about them? You know about them
> > because somebody ran into them and reported them
>
> I agree with Jochem on this. It's most likely there are still IE6 bugs
> in existence we have yet to find, primarily due to the obscurity of the
> circumstances and code required to trigger them, but if they're not
> reported no-one would ever know.
>
> >With every link you provided, isn't
> > there a way around it? Again, fix your CSS. ;-)
>
> Most of the time, yes there is. I provided some of those links to make
> it clear that IE does have bugs that are unrelated to its rendering
> engine, and I'm sorry, but I just COULDN'T have people thinking that IE
> was in control of everything it did!!  You fix your CSS and I'll hack
> mine :-) On the other hand, there are conditional comments to help in
> these situations and I wouldn't consider them a hack.
>
> > lol. Man...it isn't that serious Mark. I'll try to be more
> > careful in the future not to make statements without being
> > extra detailed.
>
> Ah come now John.  I'm sure you're over it, and maybe my tone came
> across a little differently to how I would have liked so I apologise if
> it felt like you were getting *bashed*. We all make generalisations,
> myself included, and often they are easily misinterpreted. Honestly, I
> wasn't actually sure in your initial post whether or not you truly
> believed all differences in display were a direct result of the
> rendering engine, but that's how it came across...
>
> > > Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering
> > > something right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering
> engine.
>
> It wasn't so much the lack of detail as the inaccuracy of that
> statement! Not trying to be an ass here, but my interpretation of the
> above was that "all differences in IE rendering are due to its engine".
> This was reinforced by use of the word definitely and the fact you had
> no information about the rendering issue in question, yet were still
> able to confidently state it was not a bug. Was that not a fair
> interpretation based on what you wrote?
>
> Anyway, my intention was not to rant, but perhaps you can see why I
> decided to take exception with that paragraph. Oh, and my eyes ar

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

(again, responded off list)

On 10/1/06, Matt Quackenbush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I typically don't respond to this type of thread, but this one kinda threw
> me...
>
> While I wholeheartedly agree that one should be able to "make things work
> cross-browser", it is absurd at best to suggest that to "fix your CSS
> issues
> = find out the necessary hack to fix your issue".  The very fact that it's
> a
> HACK means there's no way in hell that one *should* have to do it.  And to
> suggest that a HACK is the equivalent as a FIX?  WOW!  A hack is a hack,
> always has been, always will be.  A HACK is diametrically opposed to a
> FIX.
>
> Does that mean that I don't use CSS hacks?  Hell no it doesn't.  I use
> them
> all the time.  Do I do it because I need to show off my mad skillz and
> prove
> my cross-browser worth?  Hell no.  I do it because IE is a complete P.O.S.
> and it is riddled with so many rendering bugs that I have no choice but to
> do the hacks if I want 70% of the web-viewing public to be able to see a
> decent copy of my page.
>
> If your argument was that a developer could be considered lazy if they
> decided on a tables-based layout instead of CSS/XHTML because they didn't
> want to learn the hacks necessary to do a pure CSS layout, then I could
> agree.  But to assert that it's not a bug/problem with IE since there is a
> hack available... That's frequin delusional.  :-)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:20 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>
> Oh man, this is one of the reasons I don't like replying on big lists. I
> have to explain every detail or I get "flamed" by someone.
>
> Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the
> community has found the necessary hacks to work around them. Did you think
> I
> was talking about 5 years ago or now? You even said most hacks are known
> now. Of course I'm talking about now. I don't know of a "bug" or feature
> that a hack hasn't been discovered.
>
> So, in detail, fix your CSS issues = find out the necessary hack to fix
> your
> issue.
>
> CSS developers aren't considered such unless they can make things work
> cross-browser. Would you agree? Even if you don't, that is my take. I
> won't
> hire anyone for XHTML/CSS unless they can work cross-browser. So,
> again...fix your CSS.
>
> Yes, IE 6 bites big time. MSFT has admitted it and pretty much every
> developer that has ever worked with JS or CSS knows this. I never said it
> doesn't have bugs but to put a blanket statement of "something not
> rendering
> properly is a bug" is a little much. With every link you provided, isn't
> there a way around it? Again, fix your CSS. ;-)
>
> lol. Man...it isn't that serious Mark. I'll try to be more careful in the
> future not to make statements without being extra detailed.
>
> On 10/1/06, Mark Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote
> > > He was being sarcastic, that was obvious.
> >
> > Then John C. Bland II wrote
> > >Apparently not. ;-)
> >
> > and the text in question from Jochem:
> > > So next time I find an issue where for instance a bug in IE results
> > > in incorrect rendering, I can just call and I get a bugfix a month
> later?
> > > That is not my experience with MS support.
> >
> > I think Jochem was simply putting the acid test on Matthews previous
> > support claims (with particular emphasis on the time frame for a fix).
> > It's certainly not wrong to test the validity of a particular
> > statement while meeting the specified criteria, or is it?
> >
> > > Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering
> > something
> > > right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine.
> >
> > I'll add an LOL to that. I think you needed to do a little bit more
> > research before making such a blanket statement, since it seems you
> > are associating *all* differences in IE rendering with its engine.
> > Sometimes that is the case, sometimes, but not always, which logically
> > makes your statement false. A difference in IE rendering can sometimes
> > be put down to the engine in question (expected behaviour, even *if*
> > it conflicts with the docs), versus faulty rendering (defective
> > rendering equates to buggy behaviour, no matter what the engine is).
> > The two are 

Re: CFIF Statement

[John C. Bland II]

The idea is not to bank on myquery.RecordCount being a boolean. What happens
if the query fails? Then myquery won't contain RecordCount. I think this is
what he meant.

Most of the time I'll add checks:


I could be wrong...it just seemed that is what Neil meant. He also said
*some say* and I would agree. There is too much room for an error.

On 10/1/06, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dynamic evaluation is bad use?
>
> News to me.
>
> How so?  I think it's clear and anyone that understand how that evaluates
> knows what that statement is doing, I don't have a problem with shortcut
> evaluations at all.
>
> You don't think thats clear?
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:00 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CFIF Statement
> >
> >
> > This though can be frowned upon.  It is evaluating it as a booleon when
> in
> > most cases it will never be. Some say bad use.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> > Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> > Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> > confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive
> > use of the
> > intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s)
> > please note
> > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or
> the
> > information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you
> have
> > received this communication in error please return it to the
> > sender or call
> > our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed
> > within this
> > communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> > Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nick Tong - TalkWebSolutions.co.uk
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Sent: Sun Oct 01 17:20:26 2006
> > Subject: Re: CFIF Statement
> >
> > you dont even need the GT you can just use 
> >
> > --
> >
> > Nick Tong
> >
> > web: http://talkwebsolutions.co.uk
> > blog: http://succor.co.uk
> > short urls: http://wapurl.co.uk
> > green link: http://wapurl.co.uk/?4Z2YDLX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

(responded offlist; this post is pretty much dead and no need to fill up
everyone's inbox)

On 10/1/06, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John C. Bland II wrote:
> > Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the
> > community has found the necessary hacks to work around them. Did you
> think I
> > was talking about 5 years ago or now?
>
> You were talking about a specific phone call I made in the past. If you
> don't know when that call was exactly, shouldn't you ask before jumping the
> gun?
>
>
> > You even said most hacks are known
> > now. Of course I'm talking about now. I don't know of a "bug" or feature
> > that a hack hasn't been discovered.
>
> And how do you know about them? You know about them because somebody ran
> into them and reported them. Because that is what responsible developers do,
> they report bugs when they encounter them. And I have on occasion used the
> phone for that because other means of reporting issues to MS give the same
> response as a black hole.
>
>
> > Yes, IE 6 bites big time. MSFT has admitted it and pretty much every
> > developer that has ever worked with JS or CSS knows this. I never said
> it
> > doesn't have bugs but to put a blanket statement of "something not
> rendering
> > properly is a bug" is a little much.
>
> But that is not what I wrote. I wrote: "where for instance a bug in IE
> results in incorrect rendering" which defines a causal relation between the
> rendering problem and a bug.
>
> I am not the one making blanket statements, I am just relating my
> experiences.
>
>
> > With every link you provided, isn't there a way around it?
>
> So as long as there is a way around it, it isn't a bug? I think we should
> agree to disagree on that.
>
>
>
> Now that that is cleared up, let's go back to the question I asked. And I
> will even reformulate the question because I would really like to know if MS
> has some decent support to offer for the little guy (and indeed, if the
> support is decent, $245 is pocket change). So:
>
> If I encounter a problem in IE where a bug causes incorrect rendering to
> the point of an application being unuseable, can I just call MS and get a
> patch for IE? Or can I even get somebody to admit that it is a problem in IE
> and not in my code?
>
> Jochem
>
> 

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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Read my last post in response. I explain.

On 10/1/06, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John C. Bland II
> > Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering
> something
> > right?
>
> Of course. If you find a bug you report it. How else do bugs get fixed, by
> bashing the vendor on #1337?
>
>
> > That is definitely not a bug.
>
> So how would you call it if a browser does not render a page the way the
> documentation says it will be rendered? One might argue that it is not a
> rendering bug but a documentation bug, but even that is still a bug.
>
> Jochem
>
> 

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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Oh man, this is one of the reasons I don't like replying on big lists. I
have to explain every detail or I get "flamed" by someone.

Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the
community has found the necessary hacks to work around them. Did you think I
was talking about 5 years ago or now? You even said most hacks are known
now. Of course I'm talking about now. I don't know of a "bug" or feature
that a hack hasn't been discovered.

So, in detail, fix your CSS issues = find out the necessary hack to fix your
issue.

CSS developers aren't considered such unless they can make things work
cross-browser. Would you agree? Even if you don't, that is my take. I won't
hire anyone for XHTML/CSS unless they can work cross-browser. So,
again...fix your CSS.

Yes, IE 6 bites big time. MSFT has admitted it and pretty much every
developer that has ever worked with JS or CSS knows this. I never said it
doesn't have bugs but to put a blanket statement of "something not rendering
properly is a bug" is a little much. With every link you provided, isn't
there a way around it? Again, fix your CSS. ;-)

lol. Man...it isn't that serious Mark. I'll try to be more careful in the
future not to make statements without being extra detailed.

On 10/1/06, Mark Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 9/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote
> > He was being sarcastic, that was obvious.
>
> Then John C. Bland II wrote
> >Apparently not. ;-)
>
> and the text in question from Jochem:
> > So next time I find an issue where for instance a bug in IE results in
> > incorrect rendering, I can just call and I get a bugfix a month later?
> > That is not my experience with MS support.
>
> I think Jochem was simply putting the acid test on Matthews previous
> support claims (with particular emphasis on the time frame for a fix).
> It's certainly not wrong to test the validity of a particular statement
> while meeting the specified criteria, or is it?
>
> > Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering
> something
> > right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine.
>
> I'll add an LOL to that. I think you needed to do a little bit more
> research before making such a blanket statement, since it seems you are
> associating *all* differences in IE rendering with its engine. Sometimes
> that is the case, sometimes, but not always, which logically makes your
> statement false. A difference in IE rendering can sometimes be put down
> to the engine in question (expected behaviour, even *if* it conflicts
> with the docs), versus faulty rendering (defective rendering equates to
> buggy behaviour, no matter what the engine is). The two are not the
> same. FWIW, all IE7 bugs can now be reported on their blog:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/01/31/520817.aspx>
>
> > CSS developers know what it can and can't handle.
>
> Historically, that has simply not been the case. Maybe now that *most*
> IE bugs have been discovered, it is a little closer to the truth, and
> those taking up CSS are able to easily apply the hacks relevant to their
> problems. However, when said bugs were still in their infancy (with
> plenty still yet to be discovered), it was an extremely frustrating time
> for a lot of developers, having to break things down to, at the very
> least, a minimal test case before attempting to resolve the issue.
> Remember, this was at a time well before the release of IE7 where we had
> to try and nut these problems out for ourselves (with little knowledge
> of the IE rendering engine, I might add). And they were *not* easy to
> resolve - just see the solution to the 3 pixel text jog below for proof
> of this.
>
> An example might help serve my point better. Some IE weirdness can
> definitely be grouped under the category of "it's a feature", an example
> being the 3 pixel text jog:
> http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html>
> Hardly a handy feature in my opinion, but I suppose that was Microsoft's
> call and the browser *was* designed to behave that way. Now, the
> guillotine bug on the other hand can in no way, shape, or form be
> interpreted as anything other than a bug, period.
> http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/guillotine.html
>
> If you really want to argue that this (and many many others) are simply
> a product of the rendering engine and that this is not buggy behaviour,
> then by all means, go right ahead. But before you do, please read this:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/08/22/712830.aspx>
>
> if Microsoft are prepared to admit to their bugs, maybe it's time you
> accepted that t

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Apparently not. ;-)

On 9/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> He was being sarcastic, that was obvious.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Sat Sep 30 22:15:40 2006
> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>
> Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something
> right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine. CSS
> developers know what it can and can't handle. If you did something it
> can't
> handle, tough cookies. Fix your CSS...not IE. lol.
>
> Sorry man, that just seemed pretty far-fetched. Now, if you had an issue
> with a .NET applicaiton or ASP.NET site, you called MSFT, and got the same
> responses...I would understand.
>
> Not trying to flame you or anything. Your email just didn't make much
> sense,
> to me at least.
>
> On 9/30/06, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Matthew Small wrote:
> > > One of the biggest things that can be said about MS products is that
> > > they are supported, constantly.
> >
> > IIRC the only web development language of any significance ever
> deprecated
> > by its vendor was ASP.
> >
> >
> > > But even better, we have professional support for the little guy. When
> > > you write you own memory leak (and believe me, it can be done using
> > > JRUN and CF) we can tell you why that exists as well.  Our
> > > professional support costs some money ($245) but that's cheap when you
> > > have a seriously important application that needs to be fixed NOW.
> >
> > So next time I find an issue where for instance a bug in IE results in
> > incorrect rendering, I can just call and I get a bugfix a month later?
> That
> > is not my experience with MS support. My experience is more along the
> lines
> > of "that is not a bug, that is a feature". Another famous one is "we can
> not
> > disclose whether this bug exists because that would open us to
> litigation".
> > Or how about "it is not a bug but we won't charge you for reporting this
> and
> > you will have a much better experience with the next version".
> >
> >
> > In my experience (with any software vendor) the only recource the small
> > guy can really rely on is the source code and sufficient skill to fix it
> > yourself.
> >
> > Jochem
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something
right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine. CSS
developers know what it can and can't handle. If you did something it can't
handle, tough cookies. Fix your CSS...not IE. lol.

Sorry man, that just seemed pretty far-fetched. Now, if you had an issue
with a .NET applicaiton or ASP.NET site, you called MSFT, and got the same
responses...I would understand.

Not trying to flame you or anything. Your email just didn't make much sense,
to me at least.

On 9/30/06, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Matthew Small wrote:
> > One of the biggest things that can be said about MS products is that
> > they are supported, constantly.
>
> IIRC the only web development language of any significance ever deprecated
> by its vendor was ASP.
>
>
> > But even better, we have professional support for the little guy. When
> > you write you own memory leak (and believe me, it can be done using
> > JRUN and CF) we can tell you why that exists as well.  Our
> > professional support costs some money ($245) but that's cheap when you
> > have a seriously important application that needs to be fixed NOW.
>
> So next time I find an issue where for instance a bug in IE results in
> incorrect rendering, I can just call and I get a bugfix a month later? That
> is not my experience with MS support. My experience is more along the lines
> of "that is not a bug, that is a feature". Another famous one is "we can not
> disclose whether this bug exists because that would open us to litigation".
> Or how about "it is not a bug but we won't charge you for reporting this and
> you will have a much better experience with the next version".
>
>
> In my experience (with any software vendor) the only recource the small
> guy can really rely on is the source code and sufficient skill to fix it
> yourself.
>
> Jochem
>
> 

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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

I def' agree that learning .NET is not an easy task. If you know JS,
Actionscript, Java, etc (an ECMA language) picking up C# won't be too
difficult. Learning all of the libraries in .NET is simply an astounding
task but once you know ASP.NET you're golden for all things ASP.NET. CF
developers can get by without Java. I've not had to use it but maybe 5 times
in about 4 years and some of those were repeat instances. :-) So, you are
right. They, CF developers, get by without extending CF. I'm sure if they
didn't have to learn a completely different language they would def' use
some of the more advanced features which Java allows.

No, you are absoutely right about the product demos. I thought about that
but with limited knowledge I did a few of the things he did in 20 minutes
when I was learning ASP.NET (namely the grid with the updates, paging,
sorting, and a couple other things).

No sweat on the preso. I know it can take work to get one together.

We have an authentication framework/setup as well so I def' know what you
mean. It is common to build things once so you can use it over and over.

Yes, with the security you may need to go custom. Going custom is much
easier though, if you know those libraries/classes. A few good one's are
already baked in though. If not, the community most likely have already
built it (which could be another argument; lol).

ASP.NET is like Flex. You can do as little or as much as you want with the
high level stuff. You can get granular with the C# and extend the current
code to make it do what you want. The custom controls are pretty amazing, in
terms of simplicity.

Yeah, I've had to use onRequestStart previously (due to the Remoting issue).
We use .NET for WS so never tried it with CF but it makes since that if it
is broken for Remoting it is for WS too. We use onRequestStart for
authentication but cflogin definitely isn't an option simply due to the
redirect issue and the cookies not saving. I hate that. Good to know it is
easy to secure the WS. CF has much to be desired in way of Application.cfc.
7 is a great move in that direction.

No doubt views can be arduous to get right and the core code may need to be
adjusted. For instance, .NET CF may not need to use some heavy lifting code
since the app is most likely a very scaled down version. If done right, you
can package your files separate (dll's) and only include them as needed.

Understandably you can't run .NET CF on a wide array of phones. As said, the
market isn't there for mass usage but there are a great number of people on
Windows Mobile so there is a large market. I don't know for sure but I'd say
Java has the mobile on lock for right now with Flash Lite making good
ground.

Yeah, most developers don't need to buy CF. It is the small shops that are
considering CF but choose otherwise because they have a dedicated box and
don't want to pony up for a license.

Coo on the respect statement. I appreciate your responses/time. We are
pretty much working with the same mindset here, with some differences based
on experience/history.

On 9/29/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > What I mean by integrate is more-so an extending. Without
> > knowing Java, can you handle that with ease (being the key
> > part)? Also, can a non-advanced user do it? (another key part)
>
> No, probably not. However, learning CF and Java seems to be about the same
> amount of work as learning .NET. In addition, most CF programmers can get
> by
> without the complexity of either Java or .NET.
>
> > None of that stuff was out of the ordinary and yes, IIS 7
> > isn't out yet. I don't think I made mention of it being out
> > of the ordinary either. Doing all of it in 2 hours with
> > talking, etc included? CF out of the box can't do it.
>
> The world of product demos is a lot like Quake Done Quick
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_done_Quick). You can do a hell of a
> lot
> in two hours, with enough prior preparation.
>
> > I'd be highly interested in seeing you do this. We can setup
> > a Breezo and get you rockin' for the world to see. Just let
> > me know when you want to make it happen and we can do so.
> > If/once you do it, I will sing your praises, as I previously
> > said I would.
>
> Not to be indelicate, but that would be work, and for that I would require
> payment. This is exactly why companies like Adobe and Microsoft have
> product
> evangelists, who pretty much do that sort of thing for a living.
>
> > Tracking a session variable isn't all that took place. There
> > was roles based authentication, etc which isn't done with the
> > snap of a finger in CF.
>
> No, it probably wouldn't be done with the snap of a finger, I agree. But
> it
> wouldn't be that hard, either, and once you'd done it you wouldn't need to
> rethink it the next time you were faced with the same problem. For
> example,
> here at Fig Leaf we've used the same authentication/authorization
> functionality in many custom applications, in a format that's mo

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Russ, you seriously have to look at how ASP.NET does it. You can edit the
web.config and with your choice of language (c#, vb, etc) you can write a
custom handler. NOT ALL CF DEVELOPERS DON'T KNOW JAVA. All
ASP.NETdevelopers (regardless of language) can write a custom handler.

Seriously, anyone reading this post that doesn't know both ASP.NET and CF
shouldn't try to compare features. No one is saying CF can't do what
ASP.NETcan do. The issue is about, mainly, speed here. Some of the
things you can
do in ASP.NET can be done in CF, PHP, etc but how easy it is to implement is
key.

On 9/29/06, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If CF is deployed on Linux, half of your support would not be needed.  If
> you want to write some custom handlers, you can do those in java and plug
> them into jrun.  Nothing special about .NET here.
>
> Personally, I would like an example of a memory leak in CF.  I don't doubt
> that a lot of enterprises use .NET, but that's mostly due to microsoft's
> marketing and getting .NET into schools and universities, something that
> macromedia is not doing with CF.
>
> Personally, I would like an example of CF/Java code that causes a memory
> leak.
>
> Russ
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:30 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > Sorry to chime in late, and after Mike said not to... I haven't been on
> > this list in a long time either.  However, this isn't about .NET vs. CF.
> > It's to respond to Dave's comments.
> >
> > I know that Dave works in the DC area (please correct me if I'm wrong)
> and
> > DC is strong into CF with all of the government agencies.  That's great,
> > it's a good place to be becuase CF might be cheaper for a government
> > agency to produce website or intranets.  I know that they use Solaris a
> > lot, so CF is a good place to be.
> >
> > However, it's simply absurd to suggest that Microsoft is not strong in
> the
> > enterprise segment. I currently work in Premier technical support for
> > Microsoft supporting ASP.NET and IIS.  The list of companies that use
> > ASP.NET reads basically the same as the Fortune 500. I know because I've
> > supported their technical issues, and they do some crazy programming
> > tricks that CF simply isn't capable of, nor can Java do it either. It's
> > not because CF is inferior at what it does, but because, as someone
> > pointed out earlier, .NET can interact with the entire OS.  Yes, these
> > features are very important at the enterprise level.  Event logging to
> the
> > System and Application event logs, or a custom log; multiple session
> state
> > stores; HTTPHandlers that can intercept incoming requests and modify
> them;
> > .NET remoting; Native support for XML data transformation from the SQL
> > database; interoperability between classes written in different
> languages;
> > and most of all, enterprise support at a level that cannot be matched by
> > anybody.
> >
> > One of the biggest things that can be said about MS products is that
> they
> > are supported, constantly.   When you have a crash, we can tell you how
> to
> > capture a memory dump and then tell you exactly the line of code that
> > caused it.  When you have a memory leak, we can pick out the exact
> object
> > that the dev decided there should be millions of and how to work around
> > it.  When you need to secure your intranet applications to particular
> > groups of users that exist on your corporate intranet, we use integrated
> > windows authentication with a single sign on and your code can be
> > protected using NTFS permissions.
> >
> > Yes, all of these things are more expensive overall than a guy writing
> > some CF and deploying it to a server.  But be assured that the
> enterprise
> > is where MS is entrenched.  Millions of dollars are spent by big
> companies
> > on our contracts, and it's because they know when something goes wrong,
> MS
> > will be there to back it up 100%, and we can fix it.  There's no level
> of
> > support like that from anybody else.
> >
> > But even better, we have professional support for the little guy. When
> you
> > write you own memory leak (and believe me, it can be done using JRUN and
> > CF) we can tell you why that exists as well.  Our professional support
> > costs some money ($245) but that's cheap when you have a seriously
> > important application that needs to be fixed NOW.
> >
> > Here are a few companies that I've had cases for, recently:
> > Johnson & Johnson
> > Fidelity Financial
> > ExxonMobil
> > Federal Reserve Back
> > State Government of Masschusettes
> > Parliament of Canada
> > AARP
> >
> >
> > We don't need a list like Ben Forta's.  We're big time enterprise, way
> > bigger than Dave would have you believe.  We don't count the number of
> > companies using .NET, we don't have to.  Just search for the numbers of
> > jobs available, that will tell you all you need to kno

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Well put. A lil' defensive (understandably) but well put.

On 9/29/06, Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry to chime in late, and after Mike said not to... I haven't been on
> this list in a long time either.  However, this isn't about .NET vs.
> CF.  It's to respond to Dave's comments.
>
> I know that Dave works in the DC area (please correct me if I'm wrong) and
> DC is strong into CF with all of the government agencies.  That's great,
> it's a good place to be becuase CF might be cheaper for a government agency
> to produce website or intranets.  I know that they use Solaris a lot, so CF
> is a good place to be.
>
> However, it's simply absurd to suggest that Microsoft is not strong in the
> enterprise segment. I currently work in Premier technical support for
> Microsoft supporting ASP.NET and IIS.  The list of companies that use
> ASP.NET reads basically the same as the Fortune 500. I know because I've
> supported their technical issues, and they do some crazy programming tricks
> that CF simply isn't capable of, nor can Java do it either. It's not because
> CF is inferior at what it does, but because, as someone pointed out earlier,
> .NET can interact with the entire OS.  Yes, these features are very
> important at the enterprise level.  Event logging to the System and
> Application event logs, or a custom log; multiple session state stores;
> HTTPHandlers that can intercept incoming requests and modify them;  .NET
> remoting; Native support for XML data transformation from the SQL database;
> interoperability between classes written in different languages; and most of
> all, enterprise support at a level that cannot be matched by anybody.
>
> One of the biggest things that can be said about MS products is that they
> are supported, constantly.   When you have a crash, we can tell you how to
> capture a memory dump and then tell you exactly the line of code that caused
> it.  When you have a memory leak, we can pick out the exact object that the
> dev decided there should be millions of and how to work around it.  When you
> need to secure your intranet applications to particular groups of users that
> exist on your corporate intranet, we use integrated windows authentication
> with a single sign on and your code can be protected using NTFS permissions.
>
> Yes, all of these things are more expensive overall than a guy writing
> some CF and deploying it to a server.  But be assured that the enterprise is
> where MS is entrenched.  Millions of dollars are spent by big companies on
> our contracts, and it's because they know when something goes wrong, MS will
> be there to back it up 100%, and we can fix it.  There's no level of support
> like that from anybody else.
>
> But even better, we have professional support for the little guy. When you
> write you own memory leak (and believe me, it can be done using JRUN and CF)
> we can tell you why that exists as well.  Our professional support costs
> some money ($245) but that's cheap when you have a seriously important
> application that needs to be fixed NOW.
>
> Here are a few companies that I've had cases for, recently:
> Johnson & Johnson
> Fidelity Financial
> ExxonMobil
> Federal Reserve Back
> State Government of Masschusettes
> Parliament of Canada
> AARP
>
>
> We don't need a list like Ben Forta's.  We're big time enterprise, way
> bigger than Dave would have you believe.  We don't count the number of
> companies using .NET, we don't have to.  Just search for the numbers of jobs
> available, that will tell you all you need to know.
>
>
> - Matt Small
>
> >It's always a bit unsettling for me to hear Microsoft products and
> >"enterprise" in the same sentence, even though I've long believed that
> they
> >can work in the enterprise. And yes, you can build mobile, web and
> desktop
> >applications with .NET - I'm a big fan of the .NET Compact Framework,
> >myself. But you're not building one application at that point, you're
> >building three applications. Those applications might share some common
> >components, and even some of the same presentation logic, but they'll
> still
> >be three distinct applications. And, aside from the web portions, your
> >Microsoft applications will only run on Microsoft products - you'll have
> a
> >heck of a time deploying your .NET CF apps to Blackberries.
> >
> >Right now, the enterprise runs Java. CF integrates nicely with Java. You
> >will simply not find too much .NET in enterprise environments yet. I'm a
> big
> >fan of MS products, generally, and I think they're often better than
> they're
> >credited to be, but unless you buy into the idea of the "Microsoft
> stack",
> >where everything you use comes from Microsoft, you don't really have
> viable
> >solutions. Most enterprises have not bought into that idea yet. I don't
> know
> >if they ever will.
> >
> >Enterprise products are, and have always been, expensive. I strongly
> suspect
> >that Adobe would have difficulty selling CF as an enterpr

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

You can use dll's if you want. There is a command line tool you can use to
compile anything in .NET.

On 9/29/06, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if it's even possible.  Doesn't .NET compile components to
> dll's?  You can do that from notepad.  At the minimum you would need some
> kind of JDK.
>
> Russ
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:41 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > Well you would seriously struggle to develop in .NET without it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> > Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> > Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> > confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> > the
> > intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> > note
> > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or
> the
> > information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you
> have
> > received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> > call
> > our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> > this
> > communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> > Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John C. Bland II
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Sent: Fri Sep 29 19:31:29 2006
> > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is
> lacking.
> > VS
> > is the no doubt the major selling point here. Using Notepad would only
> be
> > for the seasoned developer.
> >
> > On 9/29/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in
> > > > .NET still valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone
> > > > expert on say Asp.Net ...
> > >
> > > I think this largely depends on your background. Visual Studio.NETdoes
> > a
> > > very good job of making web application development seem to work like
> > > traditional desktop application development, so if you have a lot of
> > > experience with that, you might well be more productive with ASP.NET.
> > >
> > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> > > http://www.figleaf.com/
> > >
> > > Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> > > instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> > > Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> > > Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

No doubt. You would probably drown.

On 9/29/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Well you would seriously struggle to develop in .NET without it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Fri Sep 29 19:31:29 2006
> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>
> Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is lacking.
> VS
> is the no doubt the major selling point here. Using Notepad would only be
> for the seasoned developer.
>
> On 9/29/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in
> > > .NET still valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone
> > > expert on say Asp.Net ...
> >
> > I think this largely depends on your background. Visual Studio.NET does
> a
> > very good job of making web application development seem to work like
> > traditional desktop application development, so if you have a lot of
> > experience with that, you might well be more productive with ASP.NET.
> >
> > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> > http://www.figleaf.com/
> >
> > Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> > instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> > Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> > Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Russ, you are right. As I said offlist to you, learning .NET vs CF is hands
down to CF. .NET is so huge in what it can do and all of the calls, etc it
can be overwhelming. I'm still learning .NET and I doubt I will be able to
get away from saying "I'm learning" for another 8 years. lol. There is just
so much you can do with it that you really have to work on projects (client
or not) to get the full scope of it.

CFEclipse pails in comparison to VS, sorry. The simple fact that no HTML
view is built-in makes it lose the battle. You seriously can't respond to
this until you've used VS. I was 100% blown away by it. Mind you, CFEclipse
is a great product for CF. I'd venture to say the best for core CF
development. No direct ftp access and no html view prevent me from using it
though. I'm comfortable enough with CF to use Dreamweaver.

On 9/29/06, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Personally, I tried to learn .NET a few times, but it seemed pretty
> backward
> to me, and I have a MS in CS.  I'm sure if I really needed to, I could
> learn
> it and be productive in it, but I doubt it would be as good as CF.
>
> As far as CF having no IDE, what about CFEclipse?  There are also html
> ide's
> that were discussed here a few weeks ago.
>
> So you can get a free BlueDragon cf server, use CFEclipse as the editor,
> run
> the server on linux/apache, use mysql for the db and everything is free.
> You just need some place to host your server.  The only limit is that the
> free BD server doesn't support SSL (but I'm sure I can find a way around
> that using apache if I had to).
>
> You can't say the same about .NET.
>
> Russ
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:15 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > Hi, Phil...
> >
> > I share your sentiments concerning CF and it's pricing and market share.
> >
> > There's just no competing with "free"...and although I don't know .NET
> > and C# at this point, I doubt seriously that a person equally
> experienced
> > in .NET and C# would take substantially more time, if any at all, to
> > maintain an
> > app that was written in that language rather than CF.
> >
> > I love CF, and without any formal training other than a CF WACK 4.0book,
> > this list, and the Internet in general, have been able to write many web
> > applications and make a decent living using CFML and CF Server.
> >
> > I'm a one-man development shop and don't have a corporate budget backing
> > my purchases, so the cost of a technology definitely comes into play
> > when I consider using it.  I look at CF and Dreamweaver (I like
> WYSIWYG),
> > and I think, hmmmabout $1700...I look at .NET and some of their free
> > design tools, which are pretty good, and I think, hmmm...$0...
> >
> > I've only worked a little with .NET and MS's design tools and I have to
> > say,
> > I don't like having to learn a new language, etc., and find CF so much
> > more
> > intuitive.  But I'm a smart guy and with some effort, I can learn .NET
> and
> > C#
> > and be just as productive in application production in the end.
> >
> > With the new tools, etc., that MS is providing to support .NET, it's
> > getting
> > harder and harder to justify spending so much money on CF.
> >
> > CF has no IDE, which adds to the cost of using CF, too.
> >
> > One of the biggest factors in my not embracing .NET yet...this list...I
> > searched
> > for a .NET list as good as CF-Talk, but couldn't find anything that came
> > close.  And I know just how important this list has been for me.  Maybe
> > it's
> > because the CF community is smaller than the .Net community, but I
> haven't
> > found a list to provide the support I would need to transition to .NET,
> > yet.
> >
> > I'm still happily using CF 4.5.2, however, and see no reason to upgrade.
> > I don't care how I code for the end user, be it in 4.5 style or the
> latest
> > and
> > greatest .cfc...all I care about is the experience for the end
> user...and
> > unless
> > I'm using FLEX or AJAX, I haven't seen any significant end user
> experience
> > improvements through the various CF versions.
> >
> >
> >
> > A good discussion to have on a Friday...
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996.
> >
> > I've recently learned .NET via C# as well. The resemblance of C# to Java
> > is
> > remarkable which made the learning curve much faster for me. However, I
> > must
> > agree with you and also add that ASP.NET 2.0 is faster / requires less
> > hardware to host the same ap. It has built in enterprise session
> > capability
> > that allows your SQL database to track your session state and much more.
> >
> > After about 6 months of learning /

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Ok. What do non-enterprise people do? Go custom huh? Exactly. There is no
global setup there.

On 9/29/06, Russ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You still need some sort of central DB server, so it's still putting extra
> load on a server (either shared with your regular server or another piece
> of
> hardware for which you'll have to pay even more $).  CF uses JRUN
> clustering
> which basically communicates from one node to another.  I'm not sure which
> one is more efficient, but my guess is the JRUN one is.
>
> You can edit one of the files, and tell JRUN to store session info in the
> db, so it's not much harder then doing it in ASP.  CF just gives you more
> options.
>
> Russ
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Phillip B. Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:19 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > >I imagine it will be the same with ASP.
> >
> > DB Session handling in ASP.NET is a native functionality of .NET which
> you
> > flip the setting in the web.config file and setup your SQL DB that
> handles
> > only those requests...the process and DB hit are incredibly thin and
> fast.
> > Remember ADO needs no ODBC bridge (like JDBC). DB hits to MS SQL are
> going
> > to naturally be faster.
> >
> > --Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:57 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> > There are a few lines that you can add to CF config files and it will
> > store
> > all session data in the db.  I tried it and it proved to be a bit slow,
> > and
> > I imagine it will be the same with ASP.  CF has an arguably better
> > solution
> > where it shares the data between all the servers directly, instead of
> > loading the db server on every request.
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is lacking. VS
is the no doubt the major selling point here. Using Notepad would only be
for the seasoned developer.

On 9/29/06, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in
> > .NET still valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone
> > expert on say Asp.Net ...
>
> I think this largely depends on your background. Visual Studio.NET does a
> very good job of making web application development seem to work like
> traditional desktop application development, so if you have a lot of
> experience with that, you might well be more productive with ASP.NET.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!
>
> 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
times a year.
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

(Mike, sorry...seems to have a mind of its own. There is some technical talk
in Dave's post and mine, here, as well.)

Dude, what a long post. lol. I'll try to make sure I respond accordingly.
:-)

What I mean by integrate is more-so an extending. Without knowing Java, can
you handle that with ease (being the key part)? Also, can a non-advanced
user do it? (another key part)

None of that stuff was out of the ordinary and yes, IIS 7 isn't out yet. I
don't think I made mention of it being out of the ordinary either. Doing all
of it in 2 hours with talking, etc included? CF out of the box can't do it.
I'd be highly interested in seeing you do this. We can setup a Breezo and
get you rockin' for the world to see. Just let me know when you want to make
it happen and we can do so. If/once you do it, I will sing your praises, as
I previously said I would.

Tracking a session variable isn't all that took place. There was roles based
authentication, etc which isn't done with the snap of a finger in CF.

Yes, you could do per page auth in CF. Can you do it from 1 config file? You
can, yes but you'd have to write that config file, create the "parsing"
engine (if it is xml or ini, etc) to manage the values, and run with it.
I've done them before on a smaller scale as well. The thing is,
ASP.NETalready has that baked into it. Sure you could write your own
and reuse but
having to is the thing here. ASP.NET...you don't have to, unless you want
to. BTW, this is a moot point for IIS7. web.confg is available to all
languages now.

A pageable, sortable, Ajax (or not) datagrid is available in other
implementations (for CF and PHP; PHP has some impressive one's you can buy).
Take that same time to research, buy one, figure out how to customize it,
and set it up in your environment is much longer than dropping a grid on a
page, setting a class or other styles, and enabling paging, sorting, etc
through checkboxes or simple params to the tag. Time is the key here.

I'm not saying url rewriting is complicated in CF. Never once did I mention
that. What I did was compare the time it would take for you to buy, install,
configure ISAPI_Rewrite, and setup your site to use it is much longer than
it is to do it in ASP.NET. Speed is the key here. Ray Camden has a great url
parser that allows you to use SES url's. I use it often. It isn't rewriting
but a great alternative. Again, you could write your own and do all of that
for reuse. ASP.NET, you don't have to. (see the theme here)

WS in CF is easy. blah.cfc?wsdl is about as easy as it gets. :-) Integrating
your custom authentication is available too. AGAIN, how long to implement
that? Out of the box, your CFC is not protected by a login screen. If you do
something with onReuqest, maybe but onRequest breaks Remoting calls but I'm
not 100% sure on the same happening to WS. The thing with what I was saying
is he didn't even have do any custom authentication. It just worked with no
code changes major legwork.

lol @ the etc, etc, etc.

As said, none of it is terribly difficult. In 2 hours, no way you can take
CF out of the box and build that from scratch. If you can, again, I will
sing your praises and am willing to setup the preso whenever you are ready.

Yes, those three apps will be separate (web, mobile, desktop). If done
right, your heavy lifting is done in all three already and you can easily
throw a new "view" on top of it to make it work. For instance, we have an
app we're developing and the desktop app took about 30 minutes to build
(initial version; wasn't robust or anything...just a base look at things).
The core code was done already. You are correct with the .NET CF. It is only
for apps that can deploy .NET CF. Although, the same goes for Flash Lite,
etc.

Enterprise can be argued, MS or not. The main part I stress when I say
enterprise is a complete end to end solution.

Yes, CF can integrate nicely with Java. I've always been impressed by it. CF
developers on this list, raise your hand if you know Java? (my hand is down)
Raise your hand if you are going to learn Java just to extend CF
development? (my hand is half-way up. been wanting to for years but no time
for a new language I will barely use) That is the key there. Java is a
completely different language to learn. ASP.NET has C# and that's all you
need to know (or vb, j#, etc).

You are right. Java to .NET would be a better comparison. Java can run in
many different environments but it seems they whole "write once, deploy
everwhere" "mantra" never really took over the world like it seemed it was
supposed to.

Trust me, as said, I could care less about the price changing. I'd love it
to...seriously. I know the issue of taking away millions of dollars in
revenue for the sake of the community isn't realistic. Also selling it as
Enterprise would be harder. You are on the money here. I should clarify that
"Price is the biggest problem with CF" statement. That 100% means in the
mind of the developer. PHP developers would have no

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

I'm already on it. I'll respond once the convo moves over.

On 9/29/06, loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sign up on CF-Talk if you would.
>
> I'd like to continue this.
>
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:43 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> >  Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit.
> >
> > WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. lol.
> > There are tons of reasons why you may want to write your own session
> > handler
> > OR just write a new intermediary to connect with another db type, use
> file
> > system, etc. You really can't comment here unless you know what ASP.NET
> > offers in the way of session customization. So you can use Java, write a
> > service factory, blah blah. How long will that take for the common CF
> > developer (medium to advanced level)? Seriously. Now research how to do
> it
> > in ASP.NET and do it in a much shorter timespan.
> >
> > First off, the same flex/flash controls can be used in any language so
> no
> > need to boast that. Yes, Flash forms are CF only but aren't very usable
> > for
> > the common CF developer that doesn't know AS (for complex things that
> is).
> > Your controls statement about .net is off. You can easily create your
> own
> > controls that provide intellisense and the 9 in minutes.
> >
> > ASP.NET is OS independent as well. I simply said you can leverage the OS
> > MUCH better than in CF. That is it and all.
> >
> > Mobile, web, desktop blah blah blah. Dude, again...arguing just to
> argue.
> > I
> > was merely clarifying that you can't compare CF to .NET. There is no
> > battle
> > there. .NET as a whole is way beyond CF for the simple fact that .NET is
> > not
> > a web programming language like CF. ASP.NET is. That is the comparison
> you
> > make. Too many people compare .NET to CF...you just can't. That is my
> only
> > point.
> >
> > I'm not arguing the price here. All I'm saying is that is what most
> people
> > have to go on. I could care less if Adobe drops the price or not. I
> think
> > it
> > would be the best decision for CF and the community but who cares. We're
> a
> > small shop and will continue to shell out the cash for our CF
> license(s).
> >
> > No, we haven't purchased a J2EE server. No need.
> >
> > To bottom line this for you man, I'm a hardcore CF lover. We use it
> often.
> > Our site is built with it. We do client work with it. I write about it.
> > With
> > all of that said, .NET's abilities (ASP.NET included) far exceed CF when
> > you
> > get beyond cfquery and simple output stuff. Seriously, learn C# and do a
> > ..NET site. You will see what I mean. Again, I love CF and am not
> turning
> > my
> > back on it. You just SERIOUSLY need to open your mind a bit. I was you
> > less
> > than a year ago. Arguing for no reason.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Talk" 
> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:24 AM
> > Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
> >
> >
> > > Yes I can it's called wddx.
> > >
> > > My own session handler?  Why would I, they wrote one for me.  If I
> > needed
> > > more than what it offered I could extend my application using things
> > like
> > > the service factory and the other macromedia java objects that are out
> > > there.  I could also just write my own classes.
> > >
> > > Can I do mobile, web and desktop applications from the same platform?
> > No
> > > I
> > > can't.  I can't do desktop apps, you are correct, so what?  If I am on
> a
> > > desktop I have a browser.  Mobile and web I have covered.
> > >
> > > Controls?  Leverage the OS?  Hell, mine are OS independent, and I am
> not
> > > limited by what the controls I have been given or purchased.  I can
> > expand
> > > my UI using Flex or Flash to give me any and all elements that I need.
> > >
> > > The price issue again, jeez.  Seriously, with all that speed of
> > > development
> > > that you are talking about is the cost really that large of an issue
> for
> > > an
> > > "ENTERPRISE" solution?
> > >
> > > Have

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Hey, sorry Mike. I didn't know this was getting run to the ground. I 
should've guessed though.

I'll refrain from responding here.

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?


> This topic has come up every 2 months since before there even was an Asp. 
> But it's off topic for this technical list. Please move any responses over 
> to the CF-OT (ColdFusion off topic) list, CF-Community (where it will be 
> ridiculed) or even to CF-Jobs-Talk or Biz-Dev (Business Development). It's 
> not technical and does not belong here.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Your list admin
>
> p.s. I've installed a targeted search so if you want to find the last time 
> this thread has come up on CF-Talk, you can search this list only. Might 
> save everyone some time.
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

 Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit.

WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. lol. 
There are tons of reasons why you may want to write your own session handler 
OR just write a new intermediary to connect with another db type, use file 
system, etc. You really can't comment here unless you know what ASP.NET 
offers in the way of session customization. So you can use Java, write a 
service factory, blah blah. How long will that take for the common CF 
developer (medium to advanced level)? Seriously. Now research how to do it 
in ASP.NET and do it in a much shorter timespan.

First off, the same flex/flash controls can be used in any language so no 
need to boast that. Yes, Flash forms are CF only but aren't very usable for 
the common CF developer that doesn't know AS (for complex things that is). 
Your controls statement about .net is off. You can easily create your own 
controls that provide intellisense and the 9 in minutes.

ASP.NET is OS independent as well. I simply said you can leverage the OS 
MUCH better than in CF. That is it and all.

Mobile, web, desktop blah blah blah. Dude, again...arguing just to argue. I 
was merely clarifying that you can't compare CF to .NET. There is no battle 
there. .NET as a whole is way beyond CF for the simple fact that .NET is not 
a web programming language like CF. ASP.NET is. That is the comparison you 
make. Too many people compare .NET to CF...you just can't. That is my only 
point.

I'm not arguing the price here. All I'm saying is that is what most people 
have to go on. I could care less if Adobe drops the price or not. I think it 
would be the best decision for CF and the community but who cares. We're a 
small shop and will continue to shell out the cash for our CF license(s).

No, we haven't purchased a J2EE server. No need.

To bottom line this for you man, I'm a hardcore CF lover. We use it often. 
Our site is built with it. We do client work with it. I write about it. With 
all of that said, .NET's abilities (ASP.NET included) far exceed CF when you 
get beyond cfquery and simple output stuff. Seriously, learn C# and do a 
..NET site. You will see what I mean. Again, I love CF and am not turning my 
back on it. You just SERIOUSLY need to open your mind a bit. I was you less 
than a year ago. Arguing for no reason.

- Original Message - 
From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?


> Yes I can it's called wddx.
>
> My own session handler?  Why would I, they wrote one for me.  If I needed
> more than what it offered I could extend my application using things like
> the service factory and the other macromedia java objects that are out
> there.  I could also just write my own classes.
>
> Can I do mobile, web and desktop applications from the same platform?  No 
> I
> can't.  I can't do desktop apps, you are correct, so what?  If I am on a
> desktop I have a browser.  Mobile and web I have covered.
>
> Controls?  Leverage the OS?  Hell, mine are OS independent, and I am not
> limited by what the controls I have been given or purchased.  I can expand
> my UI using Flex or Flash to give me any and all elements that I need.
>
> The price issue again, jeez.  Seriously, with all that speed of 
> development
> that you are talking about is the cost really that large of an issue for 
> an
> "ENTERPRISE" solution?
>
> Have you purchased a J2EE server recently?  Know how much they cost?
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:14 PM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>>
>>
>> Loathe, can you store that session data in a database with ease?
>> If so, what
>> database? Can you write your own session handler that integrates
>> with the CF
>> session handler?
>>
>> That's just a few things you can do with .NET. I know the answer to the
>> questions so no need to answer them.
>>
>> To back up some of what Phil said, do what ScottGu did here:
>> http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/09/scottgu_linq_aspnet_iis
>> _7_and.html.
>> Do that in the amount of time he did it and I will sing praises. :-)
>>
>> The issue here is the power of .net vs CF. .net is
>> enterprise...bottom line.
>> You can build an end to end app in .net (mobile, web, desktop).
>> CF is only
>> web-based so you can only compare asp.net to CF, to be fair about it.
>>
>> CF is definitely faster from 0 to 60 when dealing wtih basic
>> things. Now, if
>> you want to create a datagrid that has pagi

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

[John C. Bland II]

Loathe, can you store that session data in a database with ease? If so, what 
database? Can you write your own session handler that integrates with the CF 
session handler?

That's just a few things you can do with .NET. I know the answer to the 
questions so no need to answer them.

To back up some of what Phil said, do what ScottGu did here: 
http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/09/scottgu_linq_aspnet_iis_7_and.html. 
Do that in the amount of time he did it and I will sing praises. :-)

The issue here is the power of .net vs CF. .net is enterprise...bottom line. 
You can build an end to end app in .net (mobile, web, desktop). CF is only 
web-based so you can only compare asp.net to CF, to be fair about it.

CF is definitely faster from 0 to 60 when dealing wtih basic things. Now, if 
you want to create a datagrid that has paging, sorting, inline 
updating/deleting, etc in CF you'll be twiddling your thumbs for a while and 
an ASP.NET developer will be done in 2 minutes. That is the biggest 
difference between CF and ASP.NET. ASP.NET has controls. CF doesn't. ASP.NET 
can leverage the entire OS. CF can't.

The robustness of ASP.NET cannot be denied. The speed of CF cannot be 
denied. They both are great tech's and this convo is really a losing battle. 
Regardless of which one is better in the mind of the developer, it should 
always come down to what fits the project best.

I do agree that Adobe needs to reduce the price tag, drastically. If CF was 
free (for example), there wouldn't be much of a complaint by any of the 
other religious .net'ers, php'ers, etc. Price is the biggest problem in CF.

- Original Message - 
From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?


>I don't think I could disagree more.
>
> I've been around the CF community for a few minutes now, and I see the 
> exact
> opposite.  Now maybe in your market this is true, but I can assure that 
> CF,
> at least in the government sector where I work, has been growing like 
> crazy.
> There are tons of CF jobs in the Washington DC area.
>
> Also, how does CF not have excellent session management?  I mean, we use
> groups of clustered boxes that give us excellent response times, up times,
> and they all share our session information.
>
> Just wondering what site was it that you were on that had al of this crazy
> traffic?
>
> I thought that Myspace has been about the largest web application in the
> world for the last couple of years.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996.
>>
>> I've recently learned .NET via C# as well. The resemblance of C#
>> to Java is
>> remarkable which made the learning curve much faster for me.
>> However, I must
>> agree with you and also add that ASP.NET 2.0 is faster / requires less
>> hardware to host the same ap. It has built in enterprise session
>> capability
>> that allows your SQL database to track your session state and much more.
>>
>> After about 6 months of learning / using .NET, I don't see myself using
>> ColdFusion as a recommended middleware for large scale sites or
>> clients that
>> are on a budget. The company that I work for HAD the highest traffic
>> ColdFusion site on the planet.
>>
>> Here is a situation similar to mine:
>> http://members.microsoft.com/CustomerEvidence/Common/FileOpen.aspx
>> ?FileName=
>> 10625_ComputerJobs_bizversion_300k.wvx
>>
>> The thing that I don't agree with that CJ.com said was about the number 
>> of
>> developers it took to maintain the sites pre / post conversion. They must
>> have had some code org. issues, because that has been the same for us.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I can see the writing on the wall for CF unless
>> Adobe adopts
>> a DRAMATIC pricing reduction strategy. Plain and simply put, with .NET 
>> and
>> Mono in the market, CF can no longer increase market share whilst
>> continuing
>> to maintain / increase their pricing. They're not the only game
>> in town and
>> they need to start acting like it.
>>
>> I pains me to write this publicly about CF. So please no flames. I hate 
>> it
>> just as much as the next CF'er. However, I am relieved that I have 
>> finally
>> learned .NET because the .NET to CF job ratio is about 100:1 at least.
>> Holding on exclusively to a versus mentality will only hurt
>> yourself in the
>> end.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Phil
>>
>> ===>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?
>>
>> I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight edge in
>> development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since the days of
>> original ASP.  Now that ASP.NET has a top-notch vis

Re: CFMX7 and .NET integration

[John C. Bland II]

In a nutshell, you can force authentication on a folder or site and an
asp.net 2.0+ page can handle the login on a CF site. Basically, integration
into IIS7 is much better than IIS 6.

BillS showed a demo yesterday where he secured a PHP site through IIS and
used ASP.NET to login. It even enforced the security on images. So calling
http://myserver/myapp/images/myimage.jpg called the login page and enforced
security on the images. This was by far one of the most impressive features.

You can read more on BillS' blog about authenticating other content:
http://blogs.iis.net/bills/archive/2006/06/08/1309816.aspx.

Note:
I'm not a MSFT employee. :-) You just can't deny the great work MSFT has put
into this version. It is truly an amazing upgrade from 6.

On 9/22/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> why? What is IIS7 going to give you?
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Fri Sep 22 22:09:27 2006
> Subject: Re: CFMX7 and .NET integration
>
> The only other thing I can think of is wait until IIS7 comes out. It'll be
> a
> breeze. :-)
>
> I completely understand regarding Blue Dragon though.
>
> On 9/22/06, Jeff Langevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately we already have CFMX7 running on our server so switching
> > to Blue Dragon is not likely.
> >
> > Alan Rother wrote:
> > > Blue Dragon.Net
> > >
> > > www.NewAtlanta.com
> > >
> > > This is what is was designed for.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

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Re: easiest/fastest to implement payment processor?

[John C. Bland II]

Hey Doug, I've been on Auth.net for years and it is super simple and very
much so compatible with CF on IIS. Check my blog post from earlier this year
for code. I have used this on small and large sites over time so it is
pretty solid (made adjustments with each site).

http://blogs.katapultmedia.com/jb2/2006/03/authorizenetcfc_card_charging.html

Hope it helps.


On 9/22/06, Doug Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> speaking of authorize.net, I was just reading their info for the advanced
> integration method (AIM). From their docs...
>
> #  M I S CC O M P A T I B I L I T YI S S U E S#
> # #
> #  This sample code has not been tested on ColdFusion #
> #  installations on IIS.  #
> # #
> #  The Authorize.Net ColdFusion AIM sample code was   #
> #  developed to run on a bona-fide ColdFusion server, #
> #  not on IIS.#
> # #
> #  If you are running ColdFusion on IIS, and if you   #
> #  encounter error messages that point to a directory #
> #  path that includes "\InetPub\," you will have to deal  #
> #  with a number of compatibility issues -- depending on  #
> #  the version of Windows and/or IIS you are running.
>
> I am running CFMX on IIS, and was wondering if using CF's built-in
> web-server is better?
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mary Jo Sminkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" 
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: easiest/fastest to implement payment processor?
>
>
> > >So I am trying to make everything happen yesterday.  With that in
> > >mind, who is the fastest ecommerce payment processor to sign up with?
> > >The client is a well-established business.  At LEAST as important and
> > >maybe more so:  Whose gateway is the easiest to implement?
> >
> > No, not PayPal, they are one of the *hardest* to implement unless you
> use
> PayPal buttons on your items and their shopping cart.
> >
> > Of the regular gateways, I would say Authorize.Net is the easiest to
> implement and certainly easy to sign up with as long as your merchant's
> bank
> support them. Their gateway doesn't require anything installed on the
> server, it just uses a simple http post and then processing the return
> information. Very easy to use and they are relatively cheap as well.
> >
> >
> > 
> > Mary Jo Sminkey
> > http://www.cfwebstore.com
> > CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CFMX7 and .NET integration

[John C. Bland II]

The only other thing I can think of is wait until IIS7 comes out. It'll be a
breeze. :-)

I completely understand regarding Blue Dragon though.

On 9/22/06, Jeff Langevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately we already have CFMX7 running on our server so switching
> to Blue Dragon is not likely.
>
> Alan Rother wrote:
> > Blue Dragon.Net
> >
> > www.NewAtlanta.com
> >
> > This is what is was designed for.
> >
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Bizarre Flash/AS error

[John C. Bland II]

If that is the only function then the error isn't referring to that function
UNLESS you chose to put 23 carriage returns before the function. To
clarify,j the error says it is on Line 23.

Look in your FLA vs the AS file. That function has no code issues.

On 9/21/06, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There are no other brackets, functions or anything in the script.  Just
> that
> one function.  When the error started happening I moved everything else
> out
> of the file to isolate the function.
>
> I'm about to uninstall and go re-download the application again...
>
> -- Josh
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kevin Aebig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" 
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:56 AM
> Subject: RE: Bizarre Flash/AS error
>
>
> > My guess is that you're missing a { or } somewhere else in your script
> and
> > it's confusing the compiler. Check to make sure that you have both
> opening
> > and closing brackets everywhere else including if, switch, loops, etc.
> >
> > !k
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:43 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Bizarre Flash/AS error
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > Thanksyes it is external...however, it seems to reload the AS file
> > each
> > time I publish -- if I make a change to the AS file I see it reflected
> in
> > the error message.
> >
> > I'm hip to the datatypes, I tried that too but it didn't make a
> > difference.
> > Also tried putting the '{' on the second line as you did, same error.
> >
> > It's kind of amusing that it shows me the '{' in the error while it says
> > it
> > is missing.
> >
> > This is definitely in the WTF category.
> >
> > -- Josh
> >
> >
> >
> >> The flash compiler takes the scripts in the movie and creates a cache
> of
> >> them called ASO files. Is this script in an external file?
> >>
> >> If it's not try defining it differently and don't forget that Flash has
> >> gone
> >> a lot more strict, so set your datatypes:
> >>
> >> doSomething = function ():Void
> >> {
> >> var z:Number = 0;
> >> }
> >>
> >> !k
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: MySQL Front

[John C. Bland II]

Add another +10k from me. It isn't the best db tool I've used but it is the
best for MySQL.

On 9/18/06, Adkins, Randy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 4:02 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: MySQL Front
>
> If you are talking about a GUI to manage MySQL databases --
>
> Navicat!!
>
> Best $99 I ever spent on software.
>
> -- Josh
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chad Gray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" 
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:50 PM
> Subject: MySQL Front
>
>
> >I logged onto http://www.mysqlfront.de/ today to find they are out of
> >business.
> >
> > Anyone have a good MySQL front program?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: 3 Authorize.Net Questions

[John C. Bland II]

http://www.authorize.net/support/AIM_guide.pdf

Everything you need to know about integration is contained in there.

On 9/5/06, Brian Polackoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 1.Can anyone tell me what the field names/field properties for the
> CFHTTPPARAM tag I must use for Authorize.net:
> CCV and Address Verification?
>
> 2. Upon completion of my current project I as thinking about applying
> for the certified Authorize.net developer status.  Is this certification
> recognized by the CF Community as an asset or just another random
> certification that's not worth its time and effort.
>
> -Brian-
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Meta redirect?

[John C. Bland II]

Use Application.cfc and on onRequestStart redirect all requests. This will
give you better control.

Here is a link to doing a proper redirect:
http://www.stevenhargrove.com/redirect-web-pages/. I would consider
utilizing one of his suggested options.

On 9/2/06, Jenny Gavin-Wear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, understand all the reasoning, Bobby, but it's still what I need to do
> :-)
>
> Any ideas anyone please?
>
> Jenny
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 02 September 2006 05:48
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Meta redirect?
>
>
> Oh... I can think of a couple reasons to redirect people on requests to
> any
> page in a directory. 1 would be due to time sensitive promotions that are
> currently not valid but will be valid again in the future.
>
> You wouldn't want to delete those files since you'll be using them again
> and
> you wouldn't want users seeing 404s because you moved the files, and you
> wouldn't want search engines to stop indexing those files because you
> moved
> or deleted them... I could go on.
>
> ...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:21 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Meta redirect?
>
> >>I assumed she meant when ever someone hits any
> page in the directory.
>
> OK, but if she wants to redirect when ever someone hits any
> page in the directory, what would be the purpose of having any page at
> all in the directory then ?
>
> So I assumed that there is no more any file in the directory, and she
> wants to redirect visitors
> using old links to some new directory.
>
> --
> ___
> REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
> See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm
> (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: CF & IIS -- any way to treat .html files as .cfm?

[John C. Bland II]

Why is a stats program not good enough? Are you looking for more
granularity? I agree with you on the #'s. HTML's run through CF wouldn't
have a prob, IMO. It is the same as changing the extension to .cfm.

On 9/2/06, Pete Ruckelshaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There are links "in the wild" that are HTML pages that need to be
> processed, so if they were changed to .cfm pages, it would generate
> 404's.  As far as #'s, etc., that would only be an issue for content
> that's inside cfoutput tags, which they won't have -- I'm mainly
> needing the functionality found in the application.cfm file, which
> contains the "sniffer" code.
>
> Pete
>
> 

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Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?

[John C. Bland II]

By 0 to 60 I am referring to the learning curve. Backbase has a steep one.

Exactly on the pricing. If they had reasonable pricing for not just large 
corp's, they might have a better adoption because it is very robust.

- Original Message - 
From: "Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?


> Yep, I have used it extentively and I love it. You described it to a tee. 
> It
> is an application framework not a library in the sense of other listings. 
> It
> is a Flex HTML rival. It is not aiming to be an plug n play js library.
>
> What is all this nonsense about 0 to 60? :-)
>
> It's debugging is amazing, it has all the features you can think of, but
> again, as you rightly note it is expensive. But as they noted, large
> companies such as ours do not care about 5K :-)
>
> If money is not your concern and you want to build an RIA app, not just an
> Ajax tool then it should be considered.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant,
> Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
> Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
> confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of 
> the
> intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please 
> note
> that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
> information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
> received this communication in error please return it to the sender or 
> call
> our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within 
> this
> communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions."
> Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II
> To: CF-Talk
> Sent: Thu Aug 31 17:12:39 2006
> Subject: Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?
>
> Neil, Backbase is more robust, I'll give it that, but have you used it.
> Speaking specifically about 0 to 60, Backbase is horrible. It takes you
> completely away from your normal way of handling xhtml and attempts to
> provide MXML/XAML functionality. The things it can do are pretty
> amazing/great but their implementation simply isn't desireable AND the 
> price
>
> is ridiculous.When I spoke to them about it the reps answer was (in my
> words; it has been some months since I spoke to them) "the big companies
> don't mind the price." We went round and round but ultimately he said to
> wait a few weeks for an announcement regarding the community edition.
> Anyways, Backbase forces you to change your entire infrastructure and base
> it around them. For Ajax, that isn't desireable.
>
> I doubt Tom is using Spry because it is free. Spry is a great tool and 0 
> to
> 60, as I said, it is #1 in my book. Most ajax toolkits are free and those
> that cost, to me, aren't worth it. You can grab a DHTML library and
> something like JSMX and rival Backbase, or others, any day.
>
> Disclaimer:
> That is all IMO. :-)
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" 
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:55 AM
> Subject: RE: Ajax - Whats everybody using?
>
>
>> That only cause it is free? I would say Backbase is better than Spry but
>> it
>> is pricey
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: 31 August 2006 11:36
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?
>>
>> On Thursday 31 August 2006 05:21, Rey Bango wrote:
>>> For those doing Ajax work in conjunction with CF, I'd like to know what
>>> framework(s) you're using.
>>
>> Flex2 :-)
>> More seriously, if I were doing a DHTML project I'd pick Spry.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Tom Chiverton
>> Helping to autoschediastically initiate fifth-generation metrics
>>
>> 
>>
>> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
>>
>> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England
>> and
>> Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is
>> at
>> St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
>> available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
>> partner in relation to Halliwell

Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?

[John C. Bland II]

Neil, Backbase is more robust, I'll give it that, but have you used it. 
Speaking specifically about 0 to 60, Backbase is horrible. It takes you 
completely away from your normal way of handling xhtml and attempts to 
provide MXML/XAML functionality. The things it can do are pretty 
amazing/great but their implementation simply isn't desireable AND the price 
is ridiculous.When I spoke to them about it the reps answer was (in my 
words; it has been some months since I spoke to them) "the big companies 
don't mind the price." We went round and round but ultimately he said to 
wait a few weeks for an announcement regarding the community edition. 
Anyways, Backbase forces you to change your entire infrastructure and base 
it around them. For Ajax, that isn't desireable.

I doubt Tom is using Spry because it is free. Spry is a great tool and 0 to 
60, as I said, it is #1 in my book. Most ajax toolkits are free and those 
that cost, to me, aren't worth it. You can grab a DHTML library and 
something like JSMX and rival Backbase, or others, any day.

Disclaimer:
That is all IMO. :-)

- Original Message - 
From: "Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:55 AM
Subject: RE: Ajax - Whats everybody using?


> That only cause it is free? I would say Backbase is better than Spry but 
> it
> is pricey
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 31 August 2006 11:36
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?
>
> On Thursday 31 August 2006 05:21, Rey Bango wrote:
>> For those doing Ajax work in conjunction with CF, I'd like to know what
>> framework(s) you're using.
>
> Flex2 :-)
> More seriously, if I were doing a DHTML project I'd pick Spry.
>
> -- 
>
> Tom Chiverton
> Helping to autoschediastically initiate fifth-generation metrics
>
> 
>
> This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP.
>
> Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England 
> and
> Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is 
> at
> St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF.  A list of members is
> available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a
> partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP.
> Regulated by the Law Society.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
>
> This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and 
> may
> be confidential or legally privileged.  If you are not the addressee you
> must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it
> nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its
> existence or contents.  If you have received this email in error please
> delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008.
>
> For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com.
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Ajax - Whats everybody using?

[John C. Bland II]

Spry is the easiest from 0 to 60, seriously.

JSMX is #1 for straight ajax calls and none of the extra fluff/effects.

(both are IMO)

- Original Message - 
From: "Rey Bango" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: Ajax - Whats everybody using?


> For those doing Ajax work in conjunction with CF, I'd like to know what
> framework(s) you're using.
>
> I'm leaning towards Dojo or JQuery. Dojo is a monster though and JQuery
> has an easier learning curve plus a great plug-in feature.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Rey...
>
> 

~|
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Re: Ajax Poll

[John C. Bland II]

JSMX is by far the easiest from 0 to 60 for pure XmlHTTPRequest.

Spry is by far the easiest from 0 to 60 for data integration.

Disclaimer:
Obviously these are IMO. :-)

- Original Message - 
From: "Rey Bango" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Ajax Poll


> AjaxCFC but I'm also looking at Dojo and scriptaculous/prototype.
>
> Dan Plesse wrote:
>> Can I get a poll about which AJAX solution CF people are using? Thanks 
>> Dan
>
> 

~|
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Re: Problems passing an XML parameter to .NET webservice

[John C. Bland II]

The error shows you are missing the uriString variable. So...either you are
not fulfilling the required params or something is breaking the request.

On 8/24/06, M C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This XML itself is valid and the service expects XML for this particular
> parameter.
>
> It seems, however, that there at many pitfalls when trying to get CF MX
> 6.1 to consume .NET webservices :(
>
> >Have you checked that the XML packet is valid for the service?
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Anyone see anything wrong with this code?

[John C. Bland II]

You are going a date comparison with strings. Use actual date functions for
sql and run it again.

On 7/30/06, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>   Select Client_ID, Client_First_Name, Client_Middle_Name,
> Client_Last_Name, Client_Name_Suffix,
>  Client_Birthdate, Client_Street_Address, Client_City,
> Client_State, Client_Zip_Code
>
> from clients
>
>where Client_Birthdate >= '#Form.Start_Date#'
>  and Client_Birthdate <= '#Form.End_Date#'
>
>  
>
> The query seems to run and doesn't throw an error, but no results
> are returned.db is MySQL.
>
> ???
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc

[John C. Bland II]

Typically those lists that have From: User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> have Reply To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], like CF-Talk (shows from You, Reply To CF-Talk, and To:
CF-Talk).

On 7/24/06, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Snake...there is a difference between a mailing list and a distribution
> list, apparently.
>
> On the forum for hmailserver, a user asked why an email received through
> hmailserver's
> distribution list was showing the sender's email address, and why, when
> the
> email was
> responded to, it went only back to the person who sent the message, rather
> than to everyone.
>
> Martin, a developer for hmailserver, said that's the way it's supposed to
> work because it's
> a "distribution list" rather than a "mailing list"...
>
> The MySQL list works that way too, apparently, because mail I get from
> there
> always has
> the sender's address in the "From" field, rather than the mailing list
> address like CF-Talk.
>
>
> Rick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 12:19 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
> I dunno, maybe the fact that they have different names has confused her.
> Not every mail server calls it the same thing.
>
> Some call it mailing list, some call it distribution list, some call it
> MRA
> (Multi receipient Addresses).
> But they all do the same thing. You create a List address, and a list of
> recipients, and any mail sent to the list address gets forwarded to all
> recipients.
>
> If you want a PROPER mailing list management system, then you want to look
>
> at some like MAILMAN. The ones that come with mail servers are usually
> quite
> basic.
>
> Snake
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
> Sent: 24 July 2006 16:41
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
> You're so witty, Snake!
>
> Anyway...what, then, is the nature of Jenny's concern with a "Mail list"
> vs
> "Distribution List"?
>
> Rick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
> http://www.hmailserver.com/documentation/?page=reference_distributionlist
>
> If it Looks like a list, sounds like a list. Must be a list.
>
> --
> Snake
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 24 July 2006 16:03
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
> So what you're saying, Jenny, is that hMailServer doesn't support mailing
> lists like CF-Talk?
>
> I've been considering starting some lists like this one and was interested
> in hMailServer until your comment about it not supporting mailing lists...
>
>
>
> Rick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jenny Gavin-Wear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 5:28 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
> Just started using it here .. the one thing I wish it had was Maillist
> support and not the Distribution list included.
>
> Also works with Helm control panel :-)
>
> Really easy to install and admin.
>
> Jenny
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hugo Ahlenius [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 24 July 2006 09:12
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
>
>
> | HMailServer, free, open, windows...
> |
> | www.hmailserver.com
> |
> | Using it in production now for two years, no complaints yet.
> | Serving about a 100 domains.
>
> I'll echo that, I use it small-scale for my private needs, works very
> well.
>
> /Hugo
> ###This message has been scanned
> by
> F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange.Formore information, connect to
> http://www.F-Secure.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc

[John C. Bland II]

Oh yeah, don't forget it has great Spam features too.

On 7/23/06, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 6:36 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc
> >
> > All our down as I fight my mail server. Folks, whatever you do, do not
> > buy MailEnable. Ever. What does it do when something goes wrong? It
> > makes 125,000 mail messages in the queue.
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a Windows-based alternative that would support
> > multiple domains and listservs?
>
> I'm not sure about it's capabilities as far as large listservs but
> SmarterMail has been nothing but a pleasure for me.
>
> Excellent web-based interface, decent prices and pretty much all the bells
> and whistles.
>
> Jim Davis
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc

[John C. Bland II]

Oh yeah, you can't forget IPSwitch. One of our clients uses it and it seems
to work out pretty nice for them.

On 7/23/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ray, we use SmarterMail (from SmarterTools). We have no complaints but we
> also don't have any high traffic lists.
>
>
> On 7/23/06, Raymond Camden < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > All our down as I fight my mail server. Folks, whatever you do, do not
> > buy MailEnable. Ever. What does it do when something goes wrong? It
> > makes 125,000 mail messages in the queue.
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a Windows-based alternative that would support
> > multiple domains and listservs?
> >
> > --
> >
> > ===
> > Raymond Camden, Vice President of Technology for roundpeg
> >
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Blog : ray.camdenfamily.com
> > AOL IM   : cfjedimaster
> >
> > "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
> >
> > 

~|
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Re: cfcdev, cflib, my blog, etc

[John C. Bland II]

Ray, we use SmarterMail (from SmarterTools). We have no complaints but we
also don't have any high traffic lists.

On 7/23/06, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> All our down as I fight my mail server. Folks, whatever you do, do not
> buy MailEnable. Ever. What does it do when something goes wrong? It
> makes 125,000 mail messages in the queue.
>
> Can anyone recommend a Windows-based alternative that would support
> multiple domains and listservs?
>
> --
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Vice President of Technology for roundpeg
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog : ray.camdenfamily.com
> AOL IM   : cfjedimaster
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
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Re: Site code - what have they used... ?

[John C. Bland II]

They used PHP.

On 7/19/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Definitely a db driven site. They're just rewriting the URLs dynamically.
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> --//->
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike | NZSolutions Ltd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:25 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: OT: Site code - what have they used... ?
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Just wondering if someone could help me with finding out what
> programming language has been used to code...
>
> http://www.decorimports.co.nz/
>
> One of my clients really likes this site. I am not sure whether the
> products are being pulled from a database or not?
>
> Regards
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: XPath help

[John C. Bland II]

I think it is just a query issue. As Rob said, seeing the XML would be
great.

On 7/11/06, Howard Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey, that returns something useful.  An array. Thanks.
>
> Now to figure out how to extract the one piece of info I want.
>
> H.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Nadel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:02 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: XPath help
>
> I have had problems with name spaces in Xpath... Someone gave me this
> little
> gem which searches on the tag name:
>
> XmlSearch( GeoCodeXML, "//*[name()='PostalCodeNumber']" )
>
> This will search for any tag anywhere with name PostalCodeNumber. Not sure
> if that will work or cause problems as it might return more than one
> node??
> Not that great with Xpath.
>
> 
> Ben Nadel
> www.bennadel.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: XPath help

[John C. Bland II]

Why do you have // vs /?

On 7/11/06, Howard Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anybody else have any clue why my
> XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML,"//PostalCodeNumber")
> might be returning an empty string?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:40 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: There's got to be an easier way to parse this structure
>
> That's strange, because when I use
>
> 
>
> and CFDUMP the result, I get an array of length 1, when using it on
> the XML sample at
>
> http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
>
> On 7/11/06, Howard Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yes, I started noodling through that as you were sending this ...
> >
> > It seems like one of the following should return something other than an
> > empty array ...
> >
> > getNode = XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML, "//PostalCodeNumber/XmlText/*");
> > getNode = XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML, "//PostalCodeNumber/XmlText");
> > getNode = XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML, "//PostalCodeNumber/*");
> > getNode = XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML, "//PostalCodeNumber");
> >
> > The only thing that hasn't returned an empty array so far is:
> >
> > getNode = XMLSearch(GeoCodeXML, "//*");
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: MySpace - How they do it: Staff, Software & Servers

[John C. Bland II]

Well put, lol. :-)

On 7/10/06, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You do know there is more than one product being worked on at Adobe
> right now? ;) 7.0.2. wasn't just "Flex" support, it also included
> other fixes as well as rolling up hot fixes since the last release.
>
> Anyway - I think Adobe is probably big enough to work on Flex and not
> neglect CF. I wouldn't worry. ;)
>
> On 7/10/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > That was not my point. The point was it seems Adobe are hell bent on
> > providing the world with these buzz apps (Flex, Apollo) when, personally
> I
> > think they could be fixing flaws/bugs in CF/Jrun to make it a better
> product
> > and not just adding "Flex support"
> >
> --
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Vice President of Technology for roundpeg
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog : ray.camdenfamily.com
> AOL IM   : cfjedimaster
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> 

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Re: MySpace - How they do it: Staff, Software & Servers

[John C. Bland II]

Robert, you're flippin' on him and you're doing the same. What "research or
examples that can be independantly verified" do you have to say what you're
doing is best? As you did, he gave an opinion. Bottom line...an opinion.

CF does manage a lot of big sites, applications, etc. I'm behind CF 100% so
don't think I'm here to bash. CF isn't the end-all solution for everything.
..NET is highly powerful and has a much broader reach (mobile, desktop, web).
We build our apps (company branded that is; not all client work) in .NET for
this exact reason. Our site is built with CF though. So, BD.Net is a
potential option over regular CF. We're not a .Net shop but, as said, we use
it for many reasons.

With that said, can you see another reason, based on the above info, why
someone would switch to BD.Net?

On 7/10/06, Robert Everland III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ok, let me get this straight. Someone just threw out the comment ".NET is
> a better platform than Java/J2EE on Windows" and you agree with that when
> there was no research given at all. The only example to back that statement
> up was that a customer went from 12 servers to 4.
>
> I realize that managers will make asinine decision based on buzzwords, but
> don't sit here and agree with someone from New Atlanta on how .NET
> BlueDragon is better than CF and expect me to sit here and accept it without
> any research or examples that can be independantly verified. I can hear from
> Vince all day long how much better .NET is than Java on Windows, but if it
> were so horrible why are there so many applications that use J2EE on
> Windows? What platform is the best in running a J2EE server? Sun Solaris?
> OSX? Linux?
>
> The Java version of ColdFusion is run on plenty of big business servers
> and until I see some kind of research showing me hard number differences
> between these applications then I will continue to have my opinion that "The
> only reason I can see a company moving to BlueDragon .NET is to transition
> completely to .NET and away from CF."
>
>
>
> Bob Everland
>
> 

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Re: MySpace - How they do it: Staff, Software & Servers

[John C. Bland II]

Here you go:
http://blog.mix06.com/virtualmix/archive/2006/03/17/MySpace_demo.aspx.

They spoke semi-detailed at Mix this year.

On 7/10/06, Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'll be honest and say that they have lots of cash and throw money and
> servers at a problem rather than tight code. I've talked to them in the past
> about different things on the site and the results have been all of nothing.
> Of course this was before the move to bluedragon (from CF 5) so things may
> have changed (not from what I saw last).
> Look at the various reports from last years CFUnited to hear how they
> 'code' their site. There are other rumors about the site, but I can't
> comment on those, just what they actually said at the conference.
>
> > Does anybody know of an overview page of the myspace technical setup.
> > I've heard they have a huge software team, that they are moving to .
> > net,
> > and a few other random things. I'm curious to how their operation
> > runs
> > day to day in the web development department. URL's make it look like
> > fusebox 3 requests. Anybody actually *know* whats going on over
> > there?
>
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > This electronic message transmission contains information from
> > Collegiate Funding Services, LLC or its subsidiaries or affiliates
> > that may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to
> > be for the use of only the individual or entity named above. If you
> > are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> > distribution or use of the contents of this information is strictly
> > prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error,
> > please notify the sender by reply e-mail @cfsloans.com immediately and
> > delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system and any copies
> > you may have made, electronic or otherwise.
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?

[John C. Bland II]

I agree Mark. I'm no email expert but I would put this up there with reverse
DNS. Without it you can have pretty big problems with the major mail
providers.

Yahoo, Hotmail, and AOL already have pretty strict policies regarding
reverse DNS. Your email could be thrown into the bulk folder, blacklisted
(just went through this with AOL for another biz), or returned
undeliverable. As you say, if they do the same with SPF, folks will have
jump on board.

On 7/2/06, Mark A Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Russ,
>
> I would echo that. We have 2 mail servers - one that handles actual
> mailboxes and one used for relay only that is only accessible "inside" our
> network (so the web servers can use it).  SPF or the SPID are going to end
> up being the only things  that "really" stop this sort of thing. When big
> mail providers like Yahoo and Hotmail start failing to deliver mail due to
> SPF or SPID then everyone will have to get on board. Compliance "critical
> mass" is what will eventually solve this problem - then we can move on to
> all the others (ha).
>
> -mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 5:24 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> Unfortunately that causes other problems.
>
> Customer has mydomain.com with several other domains aliased to it, not to
> mention email aliases.
> Enforcing that only the login mailbox name can be used as the
> from  address,
> which causes more complaints from customers who want to use their aliases.
> This is also not a good solution for sending mail from web sites.
> If you force customers to send mail form their web site through their own
> mailbox, then you are putting a huge amount of extra load on your client
> pop/smtp server and slows mail down, especially when they do huge mail
> shots.
> We have a dedicated SMTP server which is used ONLY by the web servers for
> relaying mail. It allow sonly our web servers to relay through it and is
> thus open to them.
> Often when customers send email form web sites they send from an address
> such as INFO or SALES which is usually a MRA/List/forwarder, so the
> "SENDER
> must match the authenticated mailbox name" wont work here either.
>
> Of course this would only stop your customers doing naughty things anyway,
> it doesn't stop anyone else doing it to you or your email address. And
> invariably the spammers and phishers will have their own mail server
> anyway,
> so can do whatever they want.
> All you need is an ADSL line and an SMTP server.
>
> Snake
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 02 July 2006 07:35
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> The easy way is to enforce no relays or similar. We require authentication
> so you can't send an email from a bum address and you can't send without a
> password (even from web sites) OR being on our server during send. SPF is
> a
> great thing to have as well but you should enforce as much security as
> possible.
>
> On 7/1/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You could employ SPF on your domain, so any ISP that enforces SFP
> > checking will then make sure that emails from your domain came form
> > allowed IP address. So any mail sent by spammers and phishers will not
> > get
> through.
> >
> > Snake
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 01 July 2006 17:34
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
> >
> > So, I guess, in the end, there is no way to prevent email from being
> > sent from my own domain...
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:13 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
> >
> > Open outlook, goto tools -> email accounts Select one of your email
> > accounts to edit.
> > Change the from address to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Or create a CFM page to send an email.
> > Set the from address as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> >
> > There you go.
> >
> > The from address you send an email from can be anything you like, this
> > has nothing to do with the mail server, which only validates the
> > acocunt you are logging into to send the email.
> >
> &g

Re: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?

[John C. Bland II]

Russ, that's why, I believe, cfmail has username/password implemented. You
can pass in your authentication information and you're good to go. We have a
dummy email address setup that is used for authentication only. It has a
"generic" password but is still a secure one (meaning it doesn't match or
relate to our company; just some random letters/digits).

I'm not saying this is the #1 solution or the final but def something
someone should implement. You have done with your SMTP box. You constrained
relays to your web farm only which is what "or similar" meant. We have
relays set to only valid email addresses but we could loosen up and say
"from our domain" or other.

Bottom line, you have relay constraints and that is good. It isn't a
win-for-all but it def helps, agreed? :-)

On 7/2/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately that causes other problems.
>
> Customer has mydomain.com with several other domains aliased to it, not to
> mention email aliases.
> Enforcing that only the login mailbox name can be used as the
> from  address,
> which causes more complaints from customers who want to use their aliases.
> This is also not a good solution for sending mail from web sites.
> If you force customers to send mail form their web site through their own
> mailbox, then you are putting a huge amount of extra load on your client
> pop/smtp server and slows mail down, especially when they do huge mail
> shots.
> We have a dedicated SMTP server which is used ONLY by the web servers for
> relaying mail. It allow sonly our web servers to relay through it and is
> thus open to them.
> Often when customers send email form web sites they send from an address
> such as INFO or SALES which is usually a MRA/List/forwarder, so the
> "SENDER
> must match the authenticated mailbox name" wont work here either.
>
> Of course this would only stop your customers doing naughty things anyway,
> it doesn't stop anyone else doing it to you or your email address. And
> invariably the spammers and phishers will have their own mail server
> anyway,
> so can do whatever they want.
> All you need is an ADSL line and an SMTP server.
>
> Snake
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 02 July 2006 07:35
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> The easy way is to enforce no relays or similar. We require authentication
> so you can't send an email from a bum address and you can't send without a
> password (even from web sites) OR being on our server during send. SPF is
> a
> great thing to have as well but you should enforce as much security as
> possible.
>
> On 7/1/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You could employ SPF on your domain, so any ISP that enforces SFP
> > checking will then make sure that emails from your domain came form
> > allowed IP address. So any mail sent by spammers and phishers will not
> get
> through.
> >
> > Snake
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 01 July 2006 17:34
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
> >
> > So, I guess, in the end, there is no way to prevent email from being
> > sent from my own domain...
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:13 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
> >
> > Open outlook, goto tools -> email accounts Select one of your email
> > accounts to edit.
> > Change the from address to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Or create a CFM page to send an email.
> > Set the from address as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> >
> > There you go.
> >
> > The from address you send an email from can be anything you like, this
> > has nothing to do with the mail server, which only validates the
> > acocunt you are logging into to send the email.
> >
> > Snake
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 01 July 2006 16:18
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: OT: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
> >
> > Good morning, all.
> >
> > I, like many others, get phishing emails frequently, and can catch the
> > spoof simply by 

Re: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?

[John C. Bland II]

The easy way is to enforce no relays or similar. We require authentication
so you can't send an email from a bum address and you can't send without a
password (even from web sites) OR being on our server during send. SPF is a
great thing to have as well but you should enforce as much security as
possible.

On 7/1/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You could employ SPF on your domain, so any ISP that enforces SFP checking
> will then make sure that emails from your domain came form allowed IP
> address. So any mail sent by spammers and phishers will not get through.
>
> Snake
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 01 July 2006 17:34
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> So, I guess, in the end, there is no way to prevent email from being sent
> from my own domain...
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:13 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> Open outlook, goto tools -> email accounts Select one of your email
> accounts
> to edit.
> Change the from address to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Or create a CFM page to send an email.
> Set the from address as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
>
> There you go.
>
> The from address you send an email from can be anything you like, this has
> nothing to do with the mail server, which only validates the acocunt you
> are
> logging into to send the email.
>
> Snake
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 01 July 2006 16:18
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: OT: How do "Phishermen" send an email from a legitimate domain?
>
> Good morning, all.
>
> I, like many others, get phishing emails frequently, and can catch the
> spoof
> simply by looking at the hyperlinks of addresses.such as
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> which going to [EMAIL PROTECTED], but my question is:
>
> How can a phishing email be sent from [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?  How can the
> PayPal.com domain be used if their email servers are set up correctly?
>
> I ask because I get phishing email sent to me using my own domain
> frequently, but I assume I haven't got everything set up perfectly, nor do
> I
> know how.
> It's
> not too bad to live with at this point.  I just wonder how that can do
> that
> with PayPal's domain, as well.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: Logging shopping cart orders

[John C. Bland II]

Well, that's an interesting point. I'd do 1 history table then maybe add a
Type column so you can differentiate between the types of changes. You can
then group the changes by date/time and type so you can see all customer
changes for an order at 1:30 on 6/26/2006. Either way it will take some good
queries and a good interface to showcase the changes properly.

On 6/25/06, Mike Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ok a history table sounds good as i think we will need to check the
> history of orders reasonably frequently.
>
> current my orders consist of the following tables...
>
> orders (the customer info, currency etc.)
> orders_products (the products, price, qty)
> orders_products_attributes (the options selected for each product)
>
> am i better to combine these for a history table or should i have 3
> history tables as above? in fact would i not need the customer info to be
> duplicated?
>
> the attributes get a little trick as one product can have up to 4 rows in
> the attributes table.
>
> mike
>
> 

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Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves

[John C. Bland II]

I haven't heard of Jquery.

Mochi works great for DOM stuff. The documentation isn't quite great though
so I limit the use of Mochi to certain scenarios only. Using it for
Ajax...I've never tried and probably won't.

On 6/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've recently started using Jquery (jquery.com) for some DOM stuff, quick
> shortcuts and effects, only 15k. It also includes an AJAX engine, but I
> haven't
> quite figured out how to call CFCs with it. Once I have that, I might drop
> jsmx
> so that I can condense all of my JS libraries into one.
>
> andy
>
> > Yeah, that's coo. JSMX does the same. It is, really, whatever floats
> your
> > boat. For me, if I want to do heavy JS work I'd use
> > MochiKit.
> > For Ajax, it is JSMX all the way. If I want all of the sliding effects,
> > blah, blah, blah I'd most likely use Atlas or Spry.
> >
> > It is the choice between a framework or simple Ajax connections. I know
> JS
> > so I don't mind writing my own display code, etc. I'll, honestly, never
> use
> > cfajax again. I was using it when it first came out and a while after
> but,
> > seriously, you'll probably like JSMX better when it comes to pure
> > XMLHttpRequest. It is easier to make a call and get your data...which is
> why
> > Ajax is used (a...synchronous; :-) ).
> >
> > 
> >
> > On 6/23/06, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > My understanding is that the cfajax/ajaxcfc engine will return
> whatever
> > > you
> > > return from CF, but converted into JS.  So if your CF function returns
> a
> > > string, it will be converted into a JS string.  If your CF returns a
> > > query,
> > > it converts that into JS array of objects which mimics a
> recordset.  So
> > > recordset[0].column in your returned JS is equivalent to the first
> row,
> > > fieldname "column" of your returned cf query.
> > >
> > > Here's a very quick and straightforward explanation of the return
> types, I
> > > think this would apply to ajaxCFC as well since the js engine is
> > > essentially
> > > the same.
> > >
> > > http://www.indiankey.com/cfajax/wiki/ow.asp?CFAjaxReturnTypes
> > >
> > > -- Josh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "CF-Talk" 
> > > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves
> > >
> > >
> > > > geesh...guess I missed some parts of CFAJAXal we use it for is
> > > > returning
> > > > strings
> > > >
> > > > Of course this project I'm not writing the code...my staff
> is...normally
> > > > I'm in
> > > > the trenches and have a cleaer picture of what's going on ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> > > > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> > > > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
> > > > phone: 250.480.0642
> > > > fax: 250.480.1264
> > > > cell: 250.920.8830
> > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > web: www.electricedgesystems.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Logging shopping cart orders

[John C. Bland II]

I would make a history table. In there I'd probably do it one of two ways.

1) The History table would have HistoryID, OrderID, FieldChanged, OldValue,
NewValue, and DateChanged.
2) I was interrupted by a call and I just got off the phone so I forgot #2.
:-) If I remember, I'll email later.

Hope this helps.

On 6/23/06, Mike | NZSolutions Ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hi guys,
>
> my client wishes to be able to modify orders received from customers
> (add line item, edit line item, delete, modify freight etc.) - currently
> they can only view the order made which is very limiting.
>
> i have now made it so they can modify all details of an order, however i
> wish to retain the original order information somehow. should i look at
> logging this original information to a text file somehow? should i
> duplicate the order in a new table??
>
> i am a bit stuck, so any ideas on what path i should take would be
> really appreciated.
>
> mike
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves

[John C. Bland II]

Yeah, that's coo. JSMX does the same. It is, really, whatever floats your
boat. For me, if I want to do heavy JS work I'd use
MochiKit.
For Ajax, it is JSMX all the way. If I want all of the sliding effects,
blah, blah, blah I'd most likely use Atlas or Spry.

It is the choice between a framework or simple Ajax connections. I know JS
so I don't mind writing my own display code, etc. I'll, honestly, never use
cfajax again. I was using it when it first came out and a while after but,
seriously, you'll probably like JSMX better when it comes to pure
XMLHttpRequest. It is easier to make a call and get your data...which is why
Ajax is used (a...synchronous; :-) ).



On 6/23/06, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that the cfajax/ajaxcfc engine will return whatever
> you
> return from CF, but converted into JS.  So if your CF function returns a
> string, it will be converted into a JS string.  If your CF returns a
> query,
> it converts that into JS array of objects which mimics a recordset.  So
> recordset[0].column in your returned JS is equivalent to the first row,
> fieldname "column" of your returned cf query.
>
> Here's a very quick and straightforward explanation of the return types, I
> think this would apply to ajaxCFC as well since the js engine is
> essentially
> the same.
>
> http://www.indiankey.com/cfajax/wiki/ow.asp?CFAjaxReturnTypes
>
> -- Josh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bryan Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" 
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves
>
>
> > geesh...guess I missed some parts of CFAJAXal we use it for is
> > returning
> > strings
> >
> > Of course this project I'm not writing the code...my staff is...normally
> > I'm in
> > the trenches and have a cleaer picture of what's going on ;-)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
> > phone: 250.480.0642
> > fax: 250.480.1264
> > cell: 250.920.8830
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > web: www.electricedgesystems.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves

[John C. Bland II]

JSMX is, IMO, the easiest from 0 to 60. I've used others and they just don't
do it for me. I didn't just toy with others either. We used them on some
pretty big sites and to get them working, maintenance, and even minor tweaks
is painful in comparison to JSMX. Todd did a great job with it.

On 6/23/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As does JSMX which also has the added benefit of only having ONE file to
> manage. It's dead simple.
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> --//->
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:27 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: FJAX - discuss amongst yourselves
>
>
> CFAJAX and ajaxCFC return native JS objects that correlate to CF objects.
>
> On 6/24/06, Bryan Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thanks Dan & JamesI get where you're coming from now ;-)
> >
> > So which AJAX flavours that have been flying around give that ability?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
> > VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
> > Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
> > phone: 250.480.0642
> > fax: 250.480.1264
> > cell: 250.920.8830
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > web: www.electricedgesystems.com
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Anyone use JSMX and could answer a question?

[John C. Bland II]

I see Todd suggested it was a server issue due to POST not being allowed.
Also, you shouldn't be able to see your cfc in the browser.

http://www.andyandjaime.com/jsmx/remote.cfc shows the actual cfc code. Your
server doesn't know how to serve up cfc's. Fix that and you will most likely
fix the issue.

On 6/16/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm using 6.1, so no app.cfc.
>
> The weird thing is that it works on my local computer, but gives me that
> JS
> error when I try it online.
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> ----------//->
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:01 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Anyone use JSMX and could answer a question?
>
>
> From what I saw you had returntype="void" which won't allow you to get a
> result, or shouldn't...CF may be faulty in this manner. I've never tried
> to
> return a result from a function set to void. I see the example has void.
> I'd
> change it though.
>
> Also, do you have an Application.cfc setup? If so, do you have an
> onRequest
> function? If so, remove it and try again. Otherwise CF will try to serve
> the
> CFC like a CFM which will cause an error.
>
> I'd just email Todd if none of the above work. He's here in AZ so you can
> probably get fast help by joining AZCFUG (.org).
>
> On 6/15/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I've made a post on the Google forums for JSMX but I'm not sure how
> often
> > then get used:
> >
> http://groups.google.com/group/JSMX/browse_thread/thread/64b04123336694b3
> >
> > Anyone have input on this they'd care to share here on on that thread?
> >
> >  > andy matthews
> > web developer
> > certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> > ICGLink, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 615.370.1530 x737
> > --//->
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Anyone use JSMX and could answer a question?

[John C. Bland II]

>From what I saw you had returntype="void" which won't allow you to get a
result, or shouldn't...CF may be faulty in this manner. I've never tried to
return a result from a function set to void. I see the example has void. I'd
change it though.

Also, do you have an Application.cfc setup? If so, do you have an onRequest
function? If so, remove it and try again. Otherwise CF will try to serve the
CFC like a CFM which will cause an error.

I'd just email Todd if none of the above work. He's here in AZ so you can
probably get fast help by joining AZCFUG (.org).

On 6/15/06, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've made a post on the Google forums for JSMX but I'm not sure how often
> then get used:
> http://groups.google.com/group/JSMX/browse_thread/thread/64b04123336694b3
>
> Anyone have input on this they'd care to share here on on that thread?
>
>  andy matthews
> web developer
> certified advanced coldfusion programmer
> ICGLink, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 615.370.1530 x737
> --//->
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: cfe cfc invoking

[John C. Bland II]

Yeah, I just realized that and posted back. :-)

On 6/14/06, dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> dw does that, i meant for cfeclipse tho
>
> ~Dave - formerly known as "the disruptor"~
>
> --------
> From: "John C. Bland II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:57 AM
> To: CF-Talk 
> Subject: Re: cfe cfc invoking
>
> Not sure of the post you are referencing but in the Application
> panel->components you can drag a component method from here and it will do
> just that. It uses cfinvoke, from what I recall in DW 7.
>
> On 6/14/06, dave  wrote:
> >
> > someone was talking about a nice feature in cfe was dragging a method
> onto
> > a page and it creates nice lil invokes for you, I cant find it, is it
> there
> > or did I just read wrong?
> >
> > ~Dave - formerly known as "the disruptor"~
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: cfe cfc invoking

[John C. Bland II]

Oh wait, did you mean CFEclipse? I haven't seen cfe so I ignored it.

On 6/14/06, John C. Bland II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Not sure of the post you are referencing but in the Application
> panel->components you can drag a component method from here and it will do
> just that. It uses cfinvoke, from what I recall in DW 7.
>
>
> On 6/14/06, dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > someone was talking about a nice feature in cfe was dragging a method
> > onto a page and it creates nice lil invokes for you, I cant find it, is it
> > there or did I just read wrong?
> >
> > ~Dave - formerly known as "the disruptor"~
> >
> >
> >
> > 

~|
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Re: cfe cfc invoking

[John C. Bland II]

Not sure of the post you are referencing but in the Application
panel->components you can drag a component method from here and it will do
just that. It uses cfinvoke, from what I recall in DW 7.

On 6/14/06, dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> someone was talking about a nice feature in cfe was dragging a method onto
> a page and it creates nice lil invokes for you, I cant find it, is it there
> or did I just read wrong?
>
> ~Dave - formerly known as "the disruptor"~
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: announce: ColdFusion Cookbook hits 100

[John C. Bland II]

Ray, big props on the cookbook. It has come a long ways since the first time
I looked at it. Thx for the great resource.

I'll have to cook up some examples and post, whenever I get a chance. :-)

On 6/13/06, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I hope folks don't mind the advertisement (although its for a free
> resource), but I just wanted to make sure folks were aware that the
> ColdFusion Cookbook (www.coldfusioncookbook.com) hit 100 entries
> today. Most of the thanks go to Jeremy Petersen. I built the
> framework, but he did most of the publishing.
>
>
>
> --
>
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Vice President of Technology for roundpeg
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog : ray.camdenfamily.com
> AOL IM   : cfjedimaster
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> 

~|
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Re: Batch file to Stop/Start ColdFusion MX...

[John C. Bland II]

Sean Tierney had a good blog post about this. Check it out
here
..

On 6/13/06, Jason Crider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How much editing would it take to get that to work on CFMX 7?
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> On 13/06/06, Che Vilnonis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Rob, Randy... Thank you! It doesn't get any easier than that.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Adkins, Randy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:44 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: RE: Batch file to Stop/Start ColdFusion MX...
> >
> >
> > ECHO OFF
> > REM 
> > REM STOPPING SERVICES
> > REM 
> >
> > REM NET STOP "Macromedia JRun Default Server"
> > NET STOP "Macromedia JRun CFusion Server"
> > REM NET STOP "Macromedia JRun Admin Server"
> >
> >
> > REM 
> > REM STARTING SERVICES
> > REM 
> >
> >
> > REM NET START "Macromedia JRun Admin Server"
> > NET START "Macromedia JRun CFusion Server"
> > REM NET START "Macromedia JRun Default Server"
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Che Vilnonis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:38 AM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Batch file to Stop/Start ColdFusion MX...
> >
> > Does anyone have a batch file to Stop/Start ColdFusion MX?
> > Not sure how to write one. Thanks, Che.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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