RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
FYI, info from the course outline. This MAY change before the course is actually released... Developing Rich Internet Applications with Macromedia Flash and ColdFusion MX is a 3-day class designed to teach experienced ColdFusion developers how to create powerful internet applications that take advantage of the flexibility of Flash MX, the ease of connectivity of Flash Remoting and the data manipulation power of ColdFusion MX. It is a task-based course that introduces the student to creating rich interfaces using pre-build components in Flash that manipulate dynamic data received from ColdFusion Unit 1: Introducing the Course Unit 2: Introducing the Macromedia Flash MX Interface Unit 3: ActionScript Fundamentals Unit 4: Working with Flash MX UI Components Unit 5. Creating Web Services with ColdFusion Components Unit 6: Using Flash Remoting to Retrieve Dynamic Data Unit 7: Using the DataGrid Component Unit 8: Persisting Data on Client and Server Unit 9: Working with Movie Clips in Flash Unit 10: Reusability: Creating MovieClips from Groups of Elements p.s. I can confirm that it's very task based. Again, there isn't any crap like, Use this nice shade of red in the background to match the colour of the setting sun. It's very focused on things that can apply to a web application. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Thanks Ray, this does seem to be quite extensive and does teach the fundamentals of Flash as well... excellent. It does miss the point of Animation, but I suppose its out of scope. - Neil -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 13:54 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR FYI, info from the course outline. This MAY change before the course is actually released... Developing Rich Internet Applications with Macromedia Flash and ColdFusion MX is a 3-day class designed to teach experienced ColdFusion developers how to create powerful internet applications that take advantage of the flexibility of Flash MX, the ease of connectivity of Flash Remoting and the data manipulation power of ColdFusion MX. It is a task-based course that introduces the student to creating rich interfaces using pre-build components in Flash that manipulate dynamic data received from ColdFusion Unit 1: Introducing the Course Unit 2: Introducing the Macromedia Flash MX Interface Unit 3: ActionScript Fundamentals Unit 4: Working with Flash MX UI Components Unit 5. Creating Web Services with ColdFusion Components Unit 6: Using Flash Remoting to Retrieve Dynamic Data Unit 7: Using the DataGrid Component Unit 8: Persisting Data on Client and Server Unit 9: Working with Movie Clips in Flash Unit 10: Reusability: Creating MovieClips from Groups of Elements p.s. I can confirm that it's very task based. Again, there isn't any crap like, Use this nice shade of red in the background to match the colour of the setting sun. It's very focused on things that can apply to a web application. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Thing is - I can't imagine when I'd want to use animation when developing Flash apps for web components. Maybe my view is too limited - but I see myself using simple components and forms 99% of the time. I can't imagine needing something flying across the screen. That's for the black beret wearing art freaks. (And yes, I'm JUST joking. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thanks Ray, this does seem to be quite extensive and does teach the fundamentals of Flash as well... excellent. It does miss the point of Animation, but I suppose its out of scope. - Neil __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
rofl @ beret wearing art freaks... When this class comes out, I am definitely THERE. Simon, is Branden Hall teaching this one? Or is the info still fairly limited ? TIA Candace K. Cottrell, Web Developer The Children's Medical Center One Children's Plaza Dayton, OH 45404 937-641-4293 http://www.childrensdayton.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/30/2002 9:02:31 AM Thing is - I can't imagine when I'd want to use animation when developing Flash apps for web components. Maybe my view is too limited - but I see myself using simple components and forms 99% of the time. I can't imagine needing something flying across the screen. That's for the black beret wearing art freaks. (And yes, I'm JUST joking. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thanks Ray, this does seem to be quite extensive and does teach the fundamentals of Flash as well... excellent. It does miss the point of Animation, but I suppose its out of scope. - Neil __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
True, True, but maybe MM should have built or released an app / tool just for this purpose. It doesnt make sense to use an app like Flash for something so trivial, when HTML would suffice. Surely thats the gain? If you use Flash you get all the bells and whistles which eludes HTML etc There is no logic in just using it for the sake of using it (and because you can!). If you are going to use it then use ir properly. Its like buying CF and only using it to output Hello World! on a page. N -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thing is - I can't imagine when I'd want to use animation when developing Flash apps for web components. Maybe my view is too limited - but I see myself using simple components and forms 99% of the time. I can't imagine needing something flying across the screen. That's for the black beret wearing art freaks. (And yes, I'm JUST joking. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thanks Ray, this does seem to be quite extensive and does teach the fundamentals of Flash as well... excellent. It does miss the point of Animation, but I suppose its out of scope. - Neil __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Hi, Ray, and thanks for the info. Sounds like MM is address the potential that Flash has for revolutionizing the way Internet-based apps are developed. It will really bridge the gap between software-based apps and browser-based apps. From my view...forget the animation. Keeping the complication of animation inside, and requiring the continued use of the timeline interface will continue to drive away potential app builders. (Maybe a version that moves away from the timeline perspective, and focuses on app pages, instead?) I'm glad to see this is coming, but really wish that the info was available online for me to work through on my own. I like to learn things on my own, at my pace and time, instead of having to go to the time and expense of attending a class. (Some of us are *very small* businesses without the couple thousand needed to attend a class) Besides, the materials that class attenders will take away from the class will probably be sufficient for self-study, anyway. (Some people are never satisfied, huh?) How can it be in this age of information on the 'Net that MM, which promotes tools to be used in creating online training, is still selling travel and attend classes??? Turn them into online tutorials, charge for them (less, I hope), and turn the info loose! I do understand, however, that training is another profit-channel for MM, just like books for Ben... ;o) Rick -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR FYI, info from the course outline. This MAY change before the course is actually released... Developing Rich Internet Applications with Macromedia Flash and ColdFusion MX is a 3-day class designed to teach experienced ColdFusion developers how to create powerful internet applications that take advantage of the flexibility of Flash MX, the ease of connectivity of Flash Remoting and the data manipulation power of ColdFusion MX. It is a task-based course that introduces the student to creating rich interfaces using pre-build components in Flash that manipulate dynamic data received from ColdFusion Unit 1: Introducing the Course Unit 2: Introducing the Macromedia Flash MX Interface Unit 3: ActionScript Fundamentals Unit 4: Working with Flash MX UI Components Unit 5. Creating Web Services with ColdFusion Components Unit 6: Using Flash Remoting to Retrieve Dynamic Data Unit 7: Using the DataGrid Component Unit 8: Persisting Data on Client and Server Unit 9: Working with Movie Clips in Flash Unit 10: Reusability: Creating MovieClips from Groups of Elements p.s. I can confirm that it's very task based. Again, there isn't any crap like, Use this nice shade of red in the background to match the colour of the setting sun. It's very focused on things that can apply to a web application. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
I'm glad to see this is coming, but really wish that the info was available online for me to work through on my own here herethis is crucial. N -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Hi, Ray, and thanks for the info. Sounds like MM is address the potential that Flash has for revolutionizing the way Internet-based apps are developed. It will really bridge the gap between software-based apps and browser-based apps. From my view...forget the animation. Keeping the complication of animation inside, and requiring the continued use of the timeline interface will continue to drive away potential app builders. (Maybe a version that moves away from the timeline perspective, and focuses on app pages, instead?) I'm glad to see this is coming, but really wish that the info was available online for me to work through on my own. I like to learn things on my own, at my pace and time, instead of having to go to the time and expense of attending a class. (Some of us are *very small* businesses without the couple thousand needed to attend a class) Besides, the materials that class attenders will take away from the class will probably be sufficient for self-study, anyway. (Some people are never satisfied, huh?) How can it be in this age of information on the 'Net that MM, which promotes tools to be used in creating online training, is still selling travel and attend classes??? Turn them into online tutorials, charge for them (less, I hope), and turn the info loose! I do understand, however, that training is another profit-channel for MM, just like books for Ben... ;o) Rick -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR FYI, info from the course outline. This MAY change before the course is actually released... Developing Rich Internet Applications with Macromedia Flash and ColdFusion MX is a 3-day class designed to teach experienced ColdFusion developers how to create powerful internet applications that take advantage of the flexibility of Flash MX, the ease of connectivity of Flash Remoting and the data manipulation power of ColdFusion MX. It is a task-based course that introduces the student to creating rich interfaces using pre-build components in Flash that manipulate dynamic data received from ColdFusion Unit 1: Introducing the Course Unit 2: Introducing the Macromedia Flash MX Interface Unit 3: ActionScript Fundamentals Unit 4: Working with Flash MX UI Components Unit 5. Creating Web Services with ColdFusion Components Unit 6: Using Flash Remoting to Retrieve Dynamic Data Unit 7: Using the DataGrid Component Unit 8: Persisting Data on Client and Server Unit 9: Working with Movie Clips in Flash Unit 10: Reusability: Creating MovieClips from Groups of Elements p.s. I can confirm that it's very task based. Again, there isn't any crap like, Use this nice shade of red in the background to match the colour of the setting sun. It's very focused on things that can apply to a web application. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
I agree, Ray - I've had no use for Flash, even though I appreciate some of the animation it's produced. It's been an interesting *diversion* from the best uses of the Internet, and it's current use on the 'Net testifies to that perspective. It's basically an advertiser's tool...and advertisers are always looking for anything different to try to attract attention. But for the main work of the Internet, presenting and manipulating data, it's had no place. I beleive apps should look good, but Flash is just overkill for creating asthetically appealing sites. Most clients aren't interesting in paying for that kind of eye-candy. My work would be like yours, a few reusable graphics templates, basic components and forms, and I'm working 99% of the time. Probably never use any animation...Same reason I never use DHTML to make a photo fly onto the screen instead of just having it appear... Thanks for your interest in making Flash MX, especially AS, accessible to the unwashed masses. Rick -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thing is - I can't imagine when I'd want to use animation when developing Flash apps for web components. Maybe my view is too limited - but I see myself using simple components and forms 99% of the time. I can't imagine needing something flying across the screen. That's for the black beret wearing art freaks. (And yes, I'm JUST joking. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thanks Ray, this does seem to be quite extensive and does teach the fundamentals of Flash as well... excellent. It does miss the point of Animation, but I suppose its out of scope. - Neil __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Trivial? Have you used DHTML lately? (grin). There are many things that Flash can do that one could do in DHTML - however the fact that you have 99% less cross-platform headaches would make even simple stuff better in Flash I think. I think Flash has more bells and whistles than just animation. Certainly being able to tie in remoting to a flash app, even one that is a simple form, adds a level of sophistication that you can't get in DHTML. I know you can do server pings with DHTML, but this is normally done via IFRAME, layer hacks. I'm not a Flash guru, so I'll stop there. Maybe I'll never use Flash to it's full potential - but I can say I'd _much_ rather use Flash now that I've got a good handle on it. All the books I've seen in the past tried to make me learn the animation crap that I'll just never have a use for. The course focused on things that made me see that I really can use Flash in my apps - right now. P.S. Yes, I work for Macromedia (well, not for much longer), so I'm probably biased. I just want people here to know that I'm not just saying this because I work for the company. I really have gained a _much_ bigger appreciation for what Flash can do for me as a 'coder geek'. If anyone thinks its out of place for a MACR employee to tout Flash... well... sorry. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR True, True, but maybe MM should have built or released an app / tool just for this purpose. It doesnt make sense to use an app like Flash for something so trivial, when HTML would suffice. Surely thats the gain? If you use Flash you get all the bells and whistles which eludes HTML etc There is no logic in just using it for the sake of using it (and because you can!). If you are going to use it then use ir properly. Its like buying CF and only using it to output Hello World! on a page. N __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Thanks for your interest in making Flash MX, especially AS, accessible to the unwashed masses. Well, I certainly can't take credit for any of this. There are some very good people in our education department. In this case they wrote something that is EXTREMELY dead on for the coders. Sorry if I sound like a fan-boy or marketer, I just can't stop raving about this new class. I would recommend it to anyone. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
C'mon! :-) you really cant be serious? you are trying to compare Flash to DHTML?! Flash is an infinitely superior in everyway !!! I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. It is a complex combination of designers/aniimators and developers to get things working in any decent shape or formhas this been defined? I have seen some docs, but I have not read 100% into them as of yet so I am open for more pointers. N -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:20 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Trivial? Have you used DHTML lately? (grin). There are many things that Flash can do that one could do in DHTML - however the fact that you have 99% less cross-platform headaches would make even simple stuff better in Flash I think. I think Flash has more bells and whistles than just animation. Certainly being able to tie in remoting to a flash app, even one that is a simple form, adds a level of sophistication that you can't get in DHTML. I know you can do server pings with DHTML, but this is normally done via IFRAME, layer hacks. I'm not a Flash guru, so I'll stop there. Maybe I'll never use Flash to it's full potential - but I can say I'd _much_ rather use Flash now that I've got a good handle on it. All the books I've seen in the past tried to make me learn the animation crap that I'll just never have a use for. The course focused on things that made me see that I really can use Flash in my apps - right now. P.S. Yes, I work for Macromedia (well, not for much longer), so I'm probably biased. I just want people here to know that I'm not just saying this because I work for the company. I really have gained a _much_ bigger appreciation for what Flash can do for me as a 'coder geek'. If anyone thinks its out of place for a MACR employee to tout Flash... well... sorry. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR True, True, but maybe MM should have built or released an app / tool just for this purpose. It doesnt make sense to use an app like Flash for something so trivial, when HTML would suffice. Surely thats the gain? If you use Flash you get all the bells and whistles which eludes HTML etc There is no logic in just using it for the sake of using it (and because you can!). If you are going to use it then use ir properly. Its like buying CF and only using it to output Hello World! on a page. N __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Just read up on this thread. Glad to See MM are addressing the issue full on, however I am wondering if they may also be addressing the issue of training accomplished Flash Developers in the art of Application development with CF? The main problem which I have encountered is not in learning how to integrate CF and Flash. I've been toying with this idea since Generator beta release. However the problem usually lies in finding competent flash designers to work alongside in developing the applications. I'd do it all myself, but my graphic and flash skills are too limited to create the kind of interfaces which I tend to visualise. An example of the kind of thing I'm attempting to achieve with flash/CF would be similar to the vehicle workshop screens found in most modern driving games e.g. Colin Mc Crae II etc, for configuring new vehicle options etc. Just my 2c Dave -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:23 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Thanks for your interest in making Flash MX, especially AS, accessible to the unwashed masses. Well, I certainly can't take credit for any of this. There are some very good people in our education department. In this case they wrote something that is EXTREMELY dead on for the coders. Sorry if I sound like a fan-boy or marketer, I just can't stop raving about this new class. I would recommend it to anyone. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. Ah, well, when I said 'simple' forms, I did mean something a bit more than static forms. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. It is a complex combination of designers/aniimators and developers to get things working in any decent shape or formhas this been defined? I have seen some docs, but I have not read 100% into them as of yet so I am open for more pointers. This is a good question. My opinion (and let me stress, it's MY opinion, not official MACR policy) that there is some things that the art freak could do in CFML. For example - simple CFCs. This is because CFML is so dang easy. The art freak doesn't need to be a code guru to do some very nice things in CFML that will help extend their Flash apps. I think the reverse applies. I don't think I'll ever be a Flash guru - but there are things that I can learn that will be very useful to my web application development. Certainly I'd hire the art freak to take my flash form and make it prettier - if I needed it. Ditto on the reverse side. If the art freak had issues doing complex SQL, they would let the DBA or CFML coder take over. I guess I'm saying I think the course will make me more useful as a developer. In ways, it's almost like having a _very_ extendible form of HTML at my finger tips. Once I got past the ... I don't know, not wierd, but just different feel of the Flash editor, it all came down to simple rules and action script - and any CFML person can learn AS. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Yep, thanks Ray, and indeed what you are saying is that the path is defined as you require it - if you need a DBA you source one etc.. I think Flash Remoting and Flash movies have a place in development (take the Flash Expression Panel :-) but I think unless the need for having the full version of Flash is removed, there will always be a sticking point. -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:39 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. Ah, well, when I said 'simple' forms, I did mean something a bit more than static forms. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. It is a complex combination of designers/aniimators and developers to get things working in any decent shape or formhas this been defined? I have seen some docs, but I have not read 100% into them as of yet so I am open for more pointers. This is a good question. My opinion (and let me stress, it's MY opinion, not official MACR policy) that there is some things that the art freak could do in CFML. For example - simple CFCs. This is because CFML is so dang easy. The art freak doesn't need to be a code guru to do some very nice things in CFML that will help extend their Flash apps. I think the reverse applies. I don't think I'll ever be a Flash guru - but there are things that I can learn that will be very useful to my web application development. Certainly I'd hire the art freak to take my flash form and make it prettier - if I needed it. Ditto on the reverse side. If the art freak had issues doing complex SQL, they would let the DBA or CFML coder take over. I guess I'm saying I think the course will make me more useful as a developer. In ways, it's almost like having a _very_ extendible form of HTML at my finger tips. Once I got past the ... I don't know, not wierd, but just different feel of the Flash editor, it all came down to simple rules and action script - and any CFML person can learn AS. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Personally, I think that once this new paradigm of Flash Remoting is known by the person with enough vision and skills, new interface tools will be created that will do what Flash does in DB connectivity without the baggage that Flash brings from its beginning as a complicated and work-intensive graphics tool. The tool that dumps that complex, heavy Flash animation baggage and allows adequate graphic design, but continues to develop one-page browser-based, Internet-enabled DB-connected app development will win the day and the dollars. Believe me, I believe in good graphic design...I do graphic design work for print, web, and video every day. With print and video, which lack interactivity, presentation is very important to success. Graphic design can make or break a successful video presentation. But when it comes to the Internet, the functionality is what's far more critical. (Just take a look at many of the most successful sites on the Internet and it's amazing how little effort is obviously put into the design...but the functionality make it successful.) If another tool came along that would do what Flash Remoting enables, without the complicated Flash interface, I jump all over it...but really, for me, it's not the Flash interface that's the trouble, as a timeline based video editor, it makes sense to me. Even MM's attempt to get coders to think of the frames as states makes sense. Creating graphics with Flash is simple... It's just the AS that I haven't found training wheels for, yet. Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Yep, thanks Ray, and indeed what you are saying is that the path is defined as you require it - if you need a DBA you source one etc.. I think Flash Remoting and Flash movies have a place in development (take the Flash Expression Panel :-) but I think unless the need for having the full version of Flash is removed, there will always be a sticking point. -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 14:39 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. Ah, well, when I said 'simple' forms, I did mean something a bit more than static forms. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. It is a complex combination of designers/aniimators and developers to get things working in any decent shape or formhas this been defined? I have seen some docs, but I have not read 100% into them as of yet so I am open for more pointers. This is a good question. My opinion (and let me stress, it's MY opinion, not official MACR policy) that there is some things that the art freak could do in CFML. For example - simple CFCs. This is because CFML is so dang easy. The art freak doesn't need to be a code guru to do some very nice things in CFML that will help extend their Flash apps. I think the reverse applies. I don't think I'll ever be a Flash guru - but there are things that I can learn that will be very useful to my web application development. Certainly I'd hire the art freak to take my flash form and make it prettier - if I needed it. Ditto on the reverse side. If the art freak had issues doing complex SQL, they would let the DBA or CFML coder take over. I guess I'm saying I think the course will make me more useful as a developer. In ways, it's almost like having a _very_ extendible form of HTML at my finger tips. Once I got past the ... I don't know, not wierd, but just different feel of the Flash editor, it all came down to simple rules and action script - and any CFML person can learn AS. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Let me just say that I'm very excited about this class. My background is interface design, but it's the code side that I want to sit down and learn. A code-centric class will be extremely welcome. I'll be looking forward to the announcement. Animation vs programming is a non-issue. For web sites we have a variety of coders and designers working together to create a single product. Flash interfaces will be the same. Sign me up! Kevin Graeme __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
We're very excited about this class and in the past we've brought in Allaire/MM trainers on-site. Can you tell me who I should be in touch with so that I can arrange for this class being brought in as well? Thanks, Kevin Graeme -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 7:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR FYI, info from the course outline. This MAY change before the course is actually released... Developing Rich Internet Applications with Macromedia Flash and ColdFusion MX is a 3-day class designed to teach experienced ColdFusion developers how to create powerful internet applications that take advantage of the flexibility of Flash MX, the ease of connectivity of Flash Remoting and the data manipulation power of ColdFusion MX. It is a task-based course that introduces the student to creating rich interfaces using pre-build components in Flash that manipulate dynamic data received from ColdFusion Unit 1: Introducing the Course Unit 2: Introducing the Macromedia Flash MX Interface Unit 3: ActionScript Fundamentals Unit 4: Working with Flash MX UI Components Unit 5. Creating Web Services with ColdFusion Components Unit 6: Using Flash Remoting to Retrieve Dynamic Data Unit 7: Using the DataGrid Component Unit 8: Persisting Data on Client and Server Unit 9: Working with Movie Clips in Flash Unit 10: Reusability: Creating MovieClips from Groups of Elements p.s. I can confirm that it's very task based. Again, there isn't any crap like, Use this nice shade of red in the background to match the colour of the setting sun. It's very focused on things that can apply to a web application. === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
On Monday, Sep 30, 2002, at 06:29 US/Pacific, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) wrote: anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. The benefit is in the end result: a web-based application that behaves like a desktop application. Better productivity, better user experience, happier users, more revenue. Also, a well-designed Flash (read: well-engineered) application should be modular enough to allow substantial reuse of libraries and components, enabling future apps to be built quicker. Yes, there's an initial learning and development curve but the result is far superior to anything you can produce in HTML (or even DHTML - and it is far easier to maintain in Flash!). An Architect's View -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ Macromedia DevCon 2002, October 27-30, Orlando, Florida Architecting a New Internet Experience Register today at http://www.macromedia.com/go/devcon2002 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
