Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Evryone seems to be making huge assumptions about Adobe's intentions. It's fairly obvious that Flash is one of their subjects of interest, but other than the very general indications in the press release, we dont know what Adobe wanted Macromedia FOR. Suppose they've had a debate in their board about corporate stategy and decided that they are going to be blind-sided by someone else unless they get into Internet products.Just suppose that they're thinking all kinds of doom are about to befall them unless they have a stable of server products.If that's the case, ColdFusion won't be a poor relation, it'll be the crown jewel for them! It'll mean the biggest boost ColdFusion's ever had. We dont know why Adobe bought Macromedia, and for all we know, the whole thing could have been because they wanted to get hold of people like Ben Forta and the 400,000 developers, in order to expand their horizons somewhat. To diversify the Adobe business into new areas. All this talk about doom for ColdFusion is speculation and until we have an idea of what Adobe wants to do, it's just plain silly. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203614 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
but, us web designer/developers have a nice leg up on those designer only people! we can get DOUBLEFUCKED for less pay! :) just kidding of course, im more than taken care of! tony On 4/19/05, Adrocknaphobia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Web designers are the minority of all grapic designers. Which was my point. > > -Adam > > On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem > > with that. But John said, "Most don't even understand the concept of a web > > server." As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web > > mainstream. > > > > ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When > > doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become > > blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those > > distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. > > Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting > > information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. > > > > Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by > > Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of > > presentation of XML content, content management, document management, > > collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise > > server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that > > everyone is familiar with. > > > > Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And "designers" are tech > > savvier than people here probably think. > > > > --- > > Kevin Graeme > > Cooperative Extension Technology Services > > University of Wisconsin-Extension > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > > > John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. > > > Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ > > > majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers > > > who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and > > > why it's so popular. > > > > > > Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both > > > areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it > > > requires to be a master of either, there are many highly > > > skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can > > > only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't > > > important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic > > > designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still > > > in print and other media. > > > > > > John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a > > > slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. > > > > > > -Adam > > > > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203603 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
So you used to work for Allaire? ;) J On 4/19/05, Burns, John D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lol, I'd say that you are not the normal designer though...that was my > point. Anyway I'll move on. > > As for my job, my company got sold (again). This is the 3rd time in > like 4 years. 2nd time in the last 18 months since I started here. I > think this time we'll be with this company for a while though. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer > Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -- --- - Buy SQLSurveyor! http://www.web-relevant.com/sqlsurveyor Never make your developers open Enterprise Manager again. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203597 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Heck, I've met pretty decent developers who have only a marginal understanding of web servers. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that many designers have little to no practical knowledge of web servers either. Having done a website doesn't necessarily expose you to web server technology (you can view an html+css+images+js website on your local hard drive without ever using a webserver...). I don't think there's anything derogatory about describing something as being typically out of a professional's area of expertise. I wouldn't expect my family doctor to advise me on how to best deal with my dog's epilepsy. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension > -Original Message- > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even > understand the concept of a web server. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, > Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203579 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Web designers are the minority of all grapic designers. Which was my point. -Adam On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem > with that. But John said, "Most don't even understand the concept of a web > server." As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web > mainstream. > > ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When > doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become > blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those > distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. > Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting > information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. > > Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by > Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of > presentation of XML content, content management, document management, > collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise > server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that > everyone is familiar with. > > Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And "designers" are tech > savvier than people here probably think. > > --- > Kevin Graeme > Cooperative Extension Technology Services > University of Wisconsin-Extension > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. > > Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ > > majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers > > who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and > > why it's so popular. > > > > Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both > > areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it > > requires to be a master of either, there are many highly > > skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can > > only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't > > important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic > > designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still > > in print and other media. > > > > John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a > > slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. > > > > -Adam > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203572 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Is a rose by any other name still a rose???...I know I don't care.now shh or move this thread plz ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203565 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yeah, Adam's got my back. It's that Hopkins brotherhood kickin' in :-) John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam On 4/19/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you suck, get over it :) > > jk. > > and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about > photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the > developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all > good. > > just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s > envy and you cant design? > > aight mang... take it easy... > > by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? > > tony > > On 4/19/05, Burns, John D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic > > designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we > > distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out > > that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a > > simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done > > on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are > > lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to > > understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web > > servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I > > have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at > > all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't > > fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that > > I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the > > keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that > > we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of > > tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would > > say that most people who label themselves as designers probably > > don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, > > they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. > > It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > > Web Developer > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the > > first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized > > back in the mid-90's. > > > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost > > all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg > > tools and others have become accomplished coders. > > > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > > offensive. > > > > --- > > Kevin Graeme > > Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of > > Wisconsin-Extension > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even > > > understand the concept of a web server. > > > > > > > > > John Burns >
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Lol, I'd say that you are not the normal designer though...that was my point. Anyway I'll move on. As for my job, my company got sold (again). This is the 3rd time in like 4 years. 2nd time in the last 18 months since I started here. I think this time we'll be with this company for a while though. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic > designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish > between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may > be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for > non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send > email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that > one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you > have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the > subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much > about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories > being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is > not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most > programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or > graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't > learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are > exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who > label themselves as designers probably don't know much about > programming. If they do know programming, they would probably > classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and > doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > Web Developer > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the > first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized > back in the mid-90's. > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all > of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools > and others have become accomplished coders. > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > offensive. > > --- > Kevin Graeme > Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of > Wisconsin-Extension > > > -Original Message- > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand > > the concept of a web server. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > > Web Developer > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203562 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
John didn't say most designers aren't coders. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But John said, "Most don't even understand the concept of a web server." As a designer, I called bullshit. Designers made the web mainstream. ColdFusion appeals to many designers because of its tag-based roots. When doing web sites, the lines between designer and coder can quickly become blurred and I'm glad that a language like ColdFusion exists to make those distinctions even blurrier. Design isn't just about making pretty pictures. Design is much more often about communication. Clearly presenting information. And CF is an approachable tool for facilitating communication. Along these lines, I see great potential for purchase of Macromedia by Adobe. For the last several years, Adobe has been moving into the areas of presentation of XML content, content management, document management, collaborative editing, etc. leveraging J2EE. They have enterprise server-side tools as well as the traditional desktop design tools that everyone is familiar with. Coder vs. Designer? It's all about communication. And "designers" are tech savvier than people here probably think. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension > -Original Message- > From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:32 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. > Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ > majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers > who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and > why it's so popular. > > Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both > areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it > requires to be a master of either, there are many highly > skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can > only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't > important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic > designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still > in print and other media. > > John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a > slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. > > -Adam ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203561 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
John is right. Graphic designers by _definition_ are not programmers. Thats why they have a different title. And the _vast_ majority of people who use dreamweaver are graphic designers who can't even write HTML. Thats why there is a WYSIWYG and why it's so popular. Again, thats not to say someone cant be skilled in both areas, but considering the vast amount of knowledge it requires to be a master of either, there are many highly skilled graphic designers (that I have worked with) who can only create HTML with a WYSIWYG. Because coding isn't important to a focused graphic designer. Plus not all graphic designers design for the web. Most paid design work is still in print and other media. John is right in making an 'assumption' (not slander, not a slur) that the majority of graphic designers are not coders. -Adam On 4/19/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you suck, get over it :) > > jk. > > and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about > photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the > developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all > good. > > just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s > envy and you cant design? > > aight mang... take it easy... > > by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? > > tony > > On 4/19/05, Burns, John D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic > > designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish > > between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be > > able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for > > non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send > > email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one > > can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to > > have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know > > about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the > > capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the > > simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their > > job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this > > list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in > > Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's > > not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain > > rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as > > designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know > > programming, they would probably classify themselves as > > designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm > > just explaining the basis for my statements. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer > > Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the > > first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized > > back in the mid-90's. > > > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all > > of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and > > others have become accomplished coders. > > > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > > offensive. > > > > --- > > Kevin Graeme > > Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of > > Wisconsin-Extension > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand > > > the concept of a web server. > > > > > > > > > John Burns > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > > > Web Developer > > > > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203552 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
you suck, get over it :) jk. and im sorry, i just cant agree. im both. 100% i know more about photoshop than i do cf, yet ill code circles around some of the developers that call themselves developers ... so, whatever... its all good. just retract your statement and we will stop. or is this like pen*s envy and you cant design? aight mang... take it easy... by the way... new job? didnt you work somewhere else last year? tony On 4/19/05, Burns, John D <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic > designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish > between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be > able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for > non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send > email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one > can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to > have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know > about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the > capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the > simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their > job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this > list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in > Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's > not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain > rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as > designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know > programming, they would probably classify themselves as > designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm > just explaining the basis for my statements. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer > Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the > first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized > back in the mid-90's. > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all > of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and > others have become accomplished coders. > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > offensive. > > --- > Kevin Graeme > Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of > Wisconsin-Extension > > > -Original Message- > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand > > the concept of a web server. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > > Web Developer > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203547 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Nobody asked you Tony :-) J/K... You're a perfect example for the post I just made. You may have started as a designer but now you at least classify yourself as also being a programmer because of the experience you gained. My comment was for pure designers who are not programmers. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Yah, and i have to agree as well.. I was a graphic designer for 2 years or so, then web programmer/graphic designer, and now i do it all. so if it werent for Graphic design i wouldnt be here :) tw On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the > first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized > back in the mid-90's. > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all > of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools > and others have become accomplished coders. > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > offensive. > > --- > Kevin Graeme > Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of > Wisconsin-Extension > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand > > the concept of a web server. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > > Web Developer > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203544 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I'm not meaning to be offensive, I'm only pointing out that graphic designers are not, by nature, programmers. That's why we distinguish between the two. The start of my post was pointing out that Adobe may be able to help boost CF usage by marketing it a simple way for non-programmers to get basic programming tasks done on websites (send email, include files, etc). Of course there are lots of tricks that one can do with a web server, but usually to understand those, you have to have worked extensively with web servers or studied the subject to know about SSI. Most designers I have met don't know much about the capabilities of web servers at all (virtual directories being the simplest example) and I don't fault them for this as it is not their job. It's the same way that I wouldn't expect most programmers on this list to know all of the keyboard shortcuts or graphical tricks in Photoshop. It's not that we're stupid and couldn't learn it, but it's not in our daily set of tasks. I know there are exceptions to certain rules, but I would say that most people who label themselves as designers probably don't know much about programming. If they do know programming, they would probably classify themselves as designer/developers. It's all semantics and doesn't really matter, I'm just explaining the basis for my statements. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension > -Original Message- > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand > the concept of a web server. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | > Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203543 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Yah, and i have to agree as well.. I was a graphic designer for 2 years or so, then web programmer/graphic designer, and now i do it all. so if it werent for Graphic design i wouldnt be here :) tw On 4/19/05, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to > embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the > mid-90's. > > As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of > them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others > have become accomplished coders. > > I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and > offensive. > > --- > Kevin Graeme > Cooperative Extension Technology Services > University of Wisconsin-Extension > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even > > understand the concept of a web server. > > > > > > John Burns > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, > > Inc. | Web Developer > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203540 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I respectfully disagree. The graphic design industry was one of the first to embrace the web when it was finally becoming commercialized back in the mid-90's. As a graphic designer, I know plenty of other designers and almost all of them have done web sites for people. Some use just wysiwyg tools and others have become accomplished coders. I find your blanket dismissal of graphic designers as derogatory and offensive. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension > -Original Message- > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:03 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even > understand the concept of a web server. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, > Inc. | Web Developer ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203538 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Again, we're talking graphic designers. Most don't even understand the concept of a web server. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now > have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites > better. CF may catch on for the "little guy" even more who isn't a > "programmer" but wants to use so his menu only has to > exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203522 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Jim Davis wrote: >>PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but >>whatever >>way you look at it they are PostScript files... > > True - but more exactly they could be called "Postscript Plus" since while > the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript > information. More like PDF = PS-+: As stated, PDF is based on a simple _subset_ of PS, but it has a lot of extra features on top of that. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203507 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Thank you..I am not saying they are .PS PostScript but more that they are - PostScript beneath the hoodno arguments. ;-) -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 14:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > -Original Message- > From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:43 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but > whatever > way you look at it they are PostScript files... True - but more exactly they could be called "Postscript Plus" since while the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript information. At the very least there's also authoring and entitlement, revision history and lots of other document management type stuff not see in a "regular" postscript file. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203505 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:43 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but > whatever > way you look at it they are PostScript files... True - but more exactly they could be called "Postscript Plus" since while the pure data may be postscript PDFs contain more than just postscript information. At the very least there's also authoring and entitlement, revision history and lots of other document management type stuff not see in a "regular" postscript file. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203504 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I did this with BlogMan and you should have heard the out cry for from everyone about not knowing what it was and how to use it. All the whining. They didn't like how they had to republish MT when they'd make a design change so I said ok, lets do this. But then they didn't like the file name extensions -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! And on IIS! That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203503 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
>I agree when you are talking about RIA for the desktop, but even then, >where do you draw the line between a RIA or a common Windows >application? I believe there is too much going about the term RIA. Can >we call a P2P application a RIA since it has internet connectivity? Or >can we only call it a RIA when technologies like Flex, XAML come in >place. What defines a RIA? Internet connectivity? Used technologies? >Amount of interactivity? Type of application? That was my point I suppose--the line is getting so blurred that the distinctions become a bit irrelevant. If I had to make a distinction I'd say it really falls to the delivery and update mechanism. With a browser-based app you (potentially) get a new version of the app every time you open the browser. With a desktop app you have to explicitly download the new version and install it. Tools like Sash, Rebol, and Central put this process somewhere in-between--you get notified a new version is available, hit update and you're done. This is what's so interesting to me about this space right now, the fact that it's being defined while we watch. Whatever comes out of it it's going to change the way we think about these traditional distinctions in my opinion. Matt ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203499 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree when you are talking about RIA for the desktop, but even then, where do you draw the line between a RIA or a common Windows application? I believe there is too much going about the term RIA. Can we call a P2P application a RIA since it has internet connectivity? Or can we only call it a RIA when technologies like Flex, XAML come in place. What defines a RIA? Internet connectivity? Used technologies? Amount of interactivity? Type of application? Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203494 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
LOL, indeed...lets agree to disagree...go check out Adobe.. PDF's are postscriptalbeit underneath ;-) -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 12:37 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same. That is like saying that gifs and jpgs are the same because they appear the same in your graphics editor, they just look different when opened in note pad! > I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - > I am well aware that PostScript is programming language (I > have done enough work on it to know) - BUT your point was > that PDF were not postscript files - I know they are. No, they are not. > A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been > interpreted by an RIP and made into clearly defined objects - > BUT PDF's are still "PostScript"files just in a PDF guise > (i.e. post RIP'ed) My point exactly, and once the PostScript file has been interpreted and made into clearly defined objects it is no longer PostScript! > So, if I have a .cfm template which does this var="#now()#"> and run it - is this a ColdFusion template or > an HTML template? I think you will find it is the former This again works for me, the CF template is on the server with the CFDUMP in it, but as soon as CF has finished processing it and hands it to the clients browser it is no longer CF, it has been converted into HTML and isn't CF any more, just like the aforementioned PostScript file has been converted into PDF format and isn't PS any more. Anyway, this isn't really a CF-Talk discussion anymore so shall we end it here? (although I am more than happy to continue in CF-Community ;-) -- Jay ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203493 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same. That is like saying that gifs and jpgs are the same because they appear the same in your graphics editor, they just look different when opened in note pad! > I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - > I am well aware that PostScript is programming language (I > have done enough work on it to know) - BUT your point was > that PDF were not postscript files - I know they are. No, they are not. > A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been > interpreted by an RIP and made into clearly defined objects - > BUT PDF's are still "PostScript"files just in a PDF guise > (i.e. post RIP'ed) My point exactly, and once the PostScript file has been interpreted and made into clearly defined objects it is no longer PostScript! > So, if I have a .cfm template which does this var="#now()#"> and run it - is this a ColdFusion template or > an HTML template? I think you will find it is the former This again works for me, the CF template is on the server with the CFDUMP in it, but as soon as CF has finished processing it and hands it to the clients browser it is no longer CF, it has been converted into HTML and isn't CF any more, just like the aforementioned PostScript file has been converted into PDF format and isn't PS any more. Anyway, this isn't really a CF-Talk discussion anymore so shall we end it here? (although I am more than happy to continue in CF-Community ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203492 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to compete with Microsoft. Since you asked I'll go ahead and correct you, at least from my perspective which is based on what I've heard, seen, and where I see things going. ;-) >Both companies haven't really got competing products sold as so, and >while I see it mentioned a lot, Avalon is not a foundation for RIA >development. Sure it is if you think outside the browser, which is where this is all going. It's called a Rich Internet Application, not a Rich Browser Application. An internet application doesn't necessarily need to run inside a browser. At this point even with Flex the browser is pretty irrelevant except as a delivery mechanism. MS's idea with this (and I've heard them talk about it in person a few times) is to have a Flex-like experience that's integrated into the OS, but that can be distributed like an internet app. From what I understand their concept is very similar to IBM's now-abandoned Sash, which is most certainly an internet app but has nothing to do with a browser. > Avalon is merely the new surrounding framework for graphics >(vectorized), and XAML would be the MXML for WinForms, not the web. XAML >introduces a new way of building Windows applications by using the XML >format XAML (which is actually a direct translation of Avalon function >calls) so people, just like Flex, design the interface of their >application with XML but purely for pure Windows applications. But it's an internet-enabled Windows application, which is why I think you're a bit off the mark with some of your assumptions. This space is still being defined right now and there will be a whole new class of RIAs that won't run in a traditional web browser. There's absolutely going to be competition between all they players, and as usual MS is going to be late to the party, which is why Macromedia and Adobe need to pounce on the opportunity they have right now. We're already seeing non-browser-based internet apps (albeit a bit poorly implemented in my mind) with Central, and from what I've seen and heard MS wants to take that notion one step further and have native OS integration with these types of applications. This is also precisely what Macromedia has said they'd like to see happen with Flash as well--the ability to build internet apps that run on the desktop. The only difference is the Flash-based apps would be cross-platform, which is where Macromedia and Adobe would have a distinct advantage over Microsoft. Matt ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203491 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
They are yes BUT ONLY VISUALLY - the data in each is exactly the same.
I fully understand PostScript - I am not arguing that point - I am well
aware that PostScript is programming language (I have done enough work on it
to know) - BUT your point was that PDF were not postscript files - I know
they are.
A PDF file just a PostScript file which has already been interpreted by an
RIP and made into clearly defined objects - BUT PDF's are still
"PostScript"files just in a PDF guise (i.e. post RIP'ed)
So, if I have a .cfm template which does this and run
it - is this a ColdFusion template or an HTML template? I think you will
find it is the former
-Original Message-
From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 April 2005 10:43
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Then how come you are having so much dificulty grasping this simple concept.
For your illustration I have here included the first few lines of a
PostScript file...
- Start PS -
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
%%Creator: groff version 1.09
%%CreationDate: Tue Mar 21 09:47:57 1995
%%DocumentNeededResources: font Times-Bold
%%+ font Times-Italic
%%+ font Times-Roman
%%+ font Courier
%%+ font Symbol
%%DocumentSuppliedResources: procset grops 1.09 0
%%Pages: 14
%%PageOrder: Ascend
%%Orientation: Portrait
%%EndComments
%%BeginProlog
%%BeginResource: procset grops 1.09 0
/setpacking where{
pop
currentpacking
true setpacking
}if
/grops 120 dict dup begin
/SC 32 def
/A/show load def
/B{0 SC 3 -1 roll widthshow}bind def
/C{0 exch ashow}bind def
/D{0 exch 0 SC 5 2 roll awidthshow}bind def
- END PS
And here are the first few lines of THE SAME FILE but converted into PDF
format.
- Start PDF -
%PDF-1.4
%âãÃÓ
55 0 obj<>
endobj
xref
55 13
16 0 n
000830 0 n
000556 0 n
000910 0 n
001039 0 n
001142 0 n
001750 0 n
002632 0 n
003519 0 n
003705 0 n
003891 0 n
004072 0 n
004148 0 n
trailer
<]>>
startxref
0
%%EOF
57 0 obj<>stream
xÚb```f``ª‘Œox€—Â
9 p€¸3Š¦…l’o·Úzâ€\̪ÒJ
¬\óRÊ+f,-/. *`3÷
-- End PDF ---
As you can see they are VERY DIFFERENT!!!
--
Jay
> -Original Message-
> From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 19 April 2005 10:27
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
>
> Am I bollox.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
>
> You're a Mac user aren't you?
>
> > Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just
> > mappings.
>
> > > The extension does not determine the file type directly.
> > >
> > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF
> format, but
> > > whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files...
> >
> > While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS
> > Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF
> > files are based arround PostScript files and do have some
> similarities
> > but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford
> Focus is a
> > Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it?
> > NOPE!
>
>
>
>
>
>
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking
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RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Then how come you are having so much dificulty grasping this simple concept.
For your illustration I have here included the first few lines of a PostScript
file...
- Start PS -
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
%%Creator: groff version 1.09
%%CreationDate: Tue Mar 21 09:47:57 1995
%%DocumentNeededResources: font Times-Bold
%%+ font Times-Italic
%%+ font Times-Roman
%%+ font Courier
%%+ font Symbol
%%DocumentSuppliedResources: procset grops 1.09 0
%%Pages: 14
%%PageOrder: Ascend
%%Orientation: Portrait
%%EndComments
%%BeginProlog
%%BeginResource: procset grops 1.09 0
/setpacking where{
pop
currentpacking
true setpacking
}if
/grops 120 dict dup begin
/SC 32 def
/A/show load def
/B{0 SC 3 -1 roll widthshow}bind def
/C{0 exch ashow}bind def
/D{0 exch 0 SC 5 2 roll awidthshow}bind def
- END PS
And here are the first few lines of THE SAME FILE but converted into PDF format.
- Start PDF -
%PDF-1.4
%âãÏÓ
55 0 obj<>
endobj
xref
55 13
16 0 n
000830 0 n
000556 0 n
000910 0 n
001039 0 n
001142 0 n
001750 0 n
002632 0 n
003519 0 n
003705 0 n
003891 0 n
004072 0 n
004148 0 n
trailer
<]>>
startxref
0
%%EOF
57 0 obj<>stream
xÚb```f``ª‘Œox€— 9 p€¸3Š¦…l’o·Úzâ€\̪ÒJ
¬\óRÊ+f,-/. *`3÷
-- End PDF ---
As you can see they are VERY DIFFERENT!!!
--
Jay
> -Original Message-
> From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 19 April 2005 10:27
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
>
> Am I bollox.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
>
> You're a Mac user aren't you?
>
> > Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just
> > mappings.
>
> > > The extension does not determine the file type directly.
> > >
> > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF
> format, but
> > > whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files...
> >
> > While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS
> > Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF
> > files are based arround PostScript files and do have some
> similarities
> > but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford
> Focus is a
> > Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it?
> > NOPE!
>
>
>
>
>
>
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking
application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a
client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account.
http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203486
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RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Am I bollox. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 10:31 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! You're a Mac user aren't you? > Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are > just mappings. > > The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but > > whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... > > While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a > .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything > else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do > have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any > more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, > looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203485 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
You're a Mac user aren't you? > Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are > just mappings. > > The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but > > whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... > > While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a > .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything > else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do > have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any > more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, > looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203484 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
*cough* CFEclipse... I dont even have HomeSite installed.. I used to lve CFStudio and moved over to CFeclipse.. only thing that kept CFStudio on my machine was the docs it had.. and homesite hasnt got all the docs I want on it so.. meh... why should I hunt it? On 4/18/05, David Manriquez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hummm > > Coldfusion Studio still playing around here on mi PC :) > > The BEST TOOL for CF'ers > > Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. > Pray to the Lord!. > > David Manriquez Desarrollador > > -Mensaje original- > De: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Abril de 2005 15:40 > Para: CF-Talk > Asunto: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) > > On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > > > - Calvin > > > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > > > -- > > tony > > > > Tony Weeg > > > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > > > "...straight cash homey" > > - randy moss, now a raider > > > > > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203483 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Fit will if I map .PS to adobe acrobat. File extensions are just mappings. -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:59 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF > format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! -- Jay > That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention > and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn > them into a .PDF file. > Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation > of the "Adobe Encapsulated PostScript" or .EPS file format. > > -- > Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203482 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
James Smith wrote: > > That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when > > Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) If you want to go minimalistic just use HTML to include the menu: Menu The menu even gets cached in the web browser :) Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203481 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> The extension does not determine the file type directly. > > PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF > format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... While that is true, I bet if you change your PDF file to a .PS Illustrator won't open it any more and nor will anything else. PDF files are based arround PostScript files and do have some similarities but they ARE NOT postscript files any more than your Ford Focus is a Model-T, based on it yes, looks like it, to some degree, but is it? NOPE! -- Jay > That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention > and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn > them into a .PDF file. > Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation > of the "Adobe Encapsulated PostScript" or .EPS file format. > > -- > Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203480 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And on IIS! -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now > have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites > better. CF may catch on for the "little guy" even more who isn't a > "programmer" but wants to use so his menu only has to > exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203479 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Tres funny. > Of course, the first products to get combined are going to be > Freehand and Illustrator... > > http://imghost.eatshirt.com/snazzo/frustrator.jpg ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203478 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now > have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites > better. CF may catch on for the "little guy" even more who isn't a > "programmer" but wants to use so his menu only has to > exist in one file. That is an incredibly expensive liscense fee being paid to do an SSI when Can be done for free on almost any Apache server ;-) -- Jay ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203477 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
The extension does not determine the file type directly. PDF 's **ARE** PostScript files - they are just in PDF format, but whatever way you look at it they are PostScript files... -Original Message- From: James Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 April 2005 09:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > PDFs are Postscript. They are actually the native file > format for Illustrator files. That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the "Adobe Encapsulated PostScript" or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203476 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> PDFs are Postscript. They are actually the native file > format for Illustrator files. That isn't quite true. PostScript files have a .PS extention and require some processing through Acrobat Distiller to turn them into a .PDF file. Illustrators native file format is .AI which is a variation of the "Adobe Encapsulated PostScript" or .EPS file format. -- Jay ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203475 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to compete with Microsoft. Both companies haven't really got competing products sold as so, and while I see it mentioned a lot, Avalon is not a foundation for RIA development. Avalon is merely the new surrounding framework for graphics (vectorized), and XAML would be the MXML for WinForms, not the web. XAML introduces a new way of building Windows applications by using the XML format XAML (which is actually a direct translation of Avalon function calls) so people, just like Flex, design the interface of their application with XML but purely for pure Windows applications. Micha Schopman Project Manager ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203469 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Just a guess here, but I think if you read between the lines in the press release, it's not too much of a leap to put 2 + 2 together here. My guess is that Macromedia has the vision and the inovation, but is (and this is speculation on my part) under capitialized. Adobe is solid, a bit more conservative, but better capitalized. Together, they would be a solid, inovative software company that can better compete with the big dogs (read Microsoft). If there is somebody out there that is into reading financial statements and doing stock analysis, tell me, am I wrong? ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203461 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> > Now, tell me, anybody, please, maybe I am just uneducated in the > > matter. Give me three innovations by Adobe this century. > > I may settle for two. Oh, and standard product releases don't count > > (that's just a response to user suggestions). > > > > A company that has delivered solid products (don't get me wrong, I > > like PDF's) a long time ago, and has failed to capitalize on their > > success has made a wise decision to acquire MM. > > Actually, there are quite a few innovations within the PDF > file format itself, such as revision tracking and digital > signatures. Don't discount these sorts of things - they're a > big deal; very useful and innovative within the world of > document management. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ Yeah, I can attest to this. Digital signatures and watermarking, in addition to formfield filling have been a boon to a few of our clients in the medical and drug testing industries. The encryption and watermarking of highly sensitive data in PDF documents in addition to the easy-to-use PDF format has gone a long way in this area. Andy ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203459 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Sure Matt...and I was just trying to get the point across that user's do not care why something is slow (if they care at all...as obviously yours don't)...they just want it (fast or otherwise)...and don't care if it's the format or the software or the alien signals invading their system that is slowing things down ;-) and nope...I didn't mention anything about installing Adobe (it's on my system...slow as molasses...but there ya go) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203458 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Bryan, I was talking about the "they want it fast and they want it now" part and didn't do such a good job of snipping (also obliquely to a comment -- I hope it was you -- :D regarding not wanting to install Acrobat on your system). In our document-delivery system (where a customer logs in and retrieves one or several large pdf docs that are a part of their current or past account history) Speed has been a non-issue. Ubiquity was where the trouble was. In 1998 I had all sorts of support calls to deal with over with it. Those have been gone for a lonnng time now. Half the desktops in that office refuse to download Flash plugins thru Firefox... I'd hate to think what I'd have had to do if they wanted to add Flash Paper support. -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203457 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> Now, tell me, anybody, please, maybe I am just uneducated in > the matter. Give me three innovations by Adobe this century. > I may settle for two. Oh, and standard product releases don't > count (that's just a response to user suggestions). > > A company that has delivered solid products (don't get me > wrong, I like PDF's) a long time ago, and has failed to > capitalize on their success has made a wise decision to acquire > MM. Actually, there are quite a few innovations within the PDF file format itself, such as revision tracking and digital signatures. Don't discount these sorts of things - they're a big deal; very useful and innovative within the world of document management. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203456 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Of course, the first products to get combined are going to be Freehand and Illustrator... http://imghost.eatshirt.com/snazzo/frustrator.jpg -Scott ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203454 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On Monday 18 April 2005 14:40, Damien McKenna wrote: > > Let's face it, the internet needs and overhaul at this stage, > > and RIA's show promise. > > Several companies have attempted to provide an alternative method of > interacting with the internet. One of the best was Rebol > (http://www.rebol.com/) but they've been on life support for several > years. RIAs are another attempt. XUL applications are another attempt. > Microsoft's Avalon is yet another attempt. Which will gain substantial > marketshare and last past the next three years is hard to say, I suspect > Microsoft will possibly become the defacto standard simply because > people always upgrade their Windows machines to the latest and greatest. The Internet has been around for, what, twenty years, and it's only been in the last six or seven years that anyone outside a few universities and government agencies has even taken an interest in it. The World Wide Web is but one part of the Internet, although it's certainly one that's growing in importance (because a website that you can look at in Firefox is a heck of a lot more interesting than an SCP session to the average user). Microsoft has attempted several times to gain control over the user's experience of the Internet, without success. Hopefully, MS will continue to fail in its attempt to dominate the Internet; I, for one, would really hate to see the Internet Microsized. -- Richard S. Crawford Programmer III UC Davis Extension Distance Education Group 2901 K Street Sacramento, CA 95816 (916)327-7793 http://unexdlc.ucdavis.edu ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203447 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
> MM hasn't just shown vision for its products, but for the internet, and > how > the user will interact with the internet. Thats what I love about Flex, > it's > the MM guys said "how SHOULD it work", and then built the language around > it > (but that's another discussion for another day). Bottom line, Innovation. and who's to say this isn't the exact reason Adobe is buying MM??? ;-) The speculation monster will keep you up nightsjust remember...silver lining...two sides to every story...yada yada yada!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com.cfm/54 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203446 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I wouldn't count Flash RIA's out of the race yet as Microsoft has alot of catching up to do. Of course, if the new masters of Flash begin to put a bad spin on things, it won't take long for that to die. Not to mention they never seem to get new technologies right the first time out of the gate... Cheers, Kevin -Original Message- From: Damien McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:40 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > Let's face it, the internet needs and overhaul at this stage, > and RIA's show promise. Several companies have attempted to provide an alternative method of interacting with the internet. One of the best was Rebol (http://www.rebol.com/) but they've been on life support for several years. RIAs are another attempt. XUL applications are another attempt. Microsoft's Avalon is yet another attempt. Which will gain substantial marketshare and last past the next three years is hard to say, I suspect Microsoft will possibly become the defacto standard simply because people always upgrade their Windows machines to the latest and greatest. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203445 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I really like the way you put this: MM hasn't just shown vision for its products, but for the internet, and how the user will interact with the internet. Thats what I love about Flex, it's the MM guys said "how SHOULD it work", and then built the language around it (but that's another discussion for another day). Bottom line, Innovation. Well said, and good questions! - Calvin -Original Message- From: david omalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! You know, I don't mind change, especially if it's for good, however, there's obviously something I'm not seeing in the acquisition (from a MM point of view). MM has a vision not only for its products, but the internet. Changing the user experience, rapid development, using Flash as the linchpin. Let's face it, the internet needs and overhaul at this stage, and RIA's show promise. MM hasn't just shown vision for its products, but for the internet, and how the user will interact with the internet. Thats what I love about Flex, it's the MM guys said "how SHOULD it work", and then built the language around it (but that's another discussion for another day). Bottom line, Innovation. Now, tell me, anybody, please, maybe I am just uneducated in the matter. Give me three innovations by Adobe this century. I may settle for two. Oh, and standard product releases don't count (that's just a response to user suggestions). A company that has delivered solid products (don't get me wrong, I like PDF's) a long time ago, and has failed to capitalize on their success has made a wise decision to acquire MM. The board of the innovative company has said "yes" to that, is that wise? I just don't see it, I don't see why, and noone has been able to articulate it to me without the usual buzz words of "exciting", "potential" and "committed". Am I wrong? What's the vision? ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203444 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> Let's face it, the internet needs and overhaul at this stage, > and RIA's show promise. Several companies have attempted to provide an alternative method of interacting with the internet. One of the best was Rebol (http://www.rebol.com/) but they've been on life support for several years. RIAs are another attempt. XUL applications are another attempt. Microsoft's Avalon is yet another attempt. Which will gain substantial marketshare and last past the next three years is hard to say, I suspect Microsoft will possibly become the defacto standard simply because people always upgrade their Windows machines to the latest and greatest. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203443 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
You know, I don't mind change, especially if it's for good, however, there's obviously something I'm not seeing in the acquisition (from a MM point of view). MM has a vision not only for its products, but the internet. Changing the user experience, rapid development, using Flash as the linchpin. Let's face it, the internet needs and overhaul at this stage, and RIA's show promise. MM hasn't just shown vision for its products, but for the internet, and how the user will interact with the internet. Thats what I love about Flex, it's the MM guys said "how SHOULD it work", and then built the language around it (but that's another discussion for another day). Bottom line, Innovation. Now, tell me, anybody, please, maybe I am just uneducated in the matter. Give me three innovations by Adobe this century. I may settle for two. Oh, and standard product releases don't count (that's just a response to user suggestions). A company that has delivered solid products (don't get me wrong, I like PDF's) a long time ago, and has failed to capitalize on their success has made a wise decision to acquire MM. The board of the innovative company has said "yes" to that, is that wise? I just don't see it, I don't see why, and noone has been able to articulate it to me without the usual buzz words of "exciting", "potential" and "committed". Am I wrong? What's the vision? ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203442 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Or the subgenius. Or Alvis. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Aebig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:25 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > > Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. > > Pray to the Lord!. > > HAHA LOL... well I don't think even the healing hands of > Jesus are gonna save LiveMotion... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203441 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. > Pray to the Lord!. HAHA LOL... well I don't think even the healing hands of Jesus are gonna save LiveMotion... Kevin -Original Message- From: David Manriquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:17 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Hummm Coldfusion Studio still playing around here on mi PC :) The BEST TOOL for CF'ers Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. Pray to the Lord!. David Manriquez Desarrollador -Mensaje original- De: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Abril de 2005 15:40 Para: CF-Talk Asunto: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > - Calvin > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > -- > tony > > Tony Weeg > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > "...straight cash homey" > - randy moss, now a raider > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203440 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Hummm Coldfusion Studio still playing around here on mi PC :) The BEST TOOL for CF'ers Adobe is the Devil and the World is going to end. Pray to the Lord!. David Manriquez Desarrollador -Mensaje original- De: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Abril de 2005 15:40 Para: CF-Talk Asunto: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > - Calvin > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > -- > tony > > Tony Weeg > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > "...straight cash homey" > - randy moss, now a raider > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203439 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:56 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > And the other alternative is the reality that Adobe certainly seems more > litigious... > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/28/2810mac > ro > ..html > > Wonder if that could spell hard times for the alternate CF 'engines'? I really doubt it - time and time again the courts have sided that you can't copyright a language. As long as other CFML engines don't steal code from CF (and considering how different the run-time engines are for them I doubt this will happen) then I think they should be safe. If Adobe really wanted to kill them they might create nuisance suits they know they can't win just to drain resources, but I doubt that will happen. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203437 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And the other alternative is the reality that Adobe certainly seems more litigious... http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/28/2810macro ..html Wonder if that could spell hard times for the alternate CF 'engines'? -Original Message- From: Gert Franz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: AW: macromedia and Adobe?! Hi guys, We at railo look forward to the upcoming times. Either way it will be good for Bluedragon or Railo. If Adobe decides to discontinue CF which from a busines point ov view i would prefer, but from a private point of view i would not prefer, the CF family needs to shift to another CF-Server. If not, CF will be one of many products by Adobe and it will not be as important as it was before at Macromedia. But if Adobe thinks about pushing CF, the would have to improve it with many new features and change the price to one a mass product. So either way, I guess it will be very interesting. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 18. April 2005 09:58 An: CF-Talk Betreff: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203434 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:54 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Okay, buy it directly and show me how you do it. There are a lot of tools you can't buy directly that are still under development as parts of a suite or utilities - right now HomeSite+ is still being shipped and (very irregularly) updated as part of the Dreamweaver package. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203431 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
AW: macromedia and Adobe?!
Hi guys, We at railo look forward to the upcoming times. Either way it will be good for Bluedragon or Railo. If Adobe decides to discontinue CF which from a busines point ov view i would prefer, but from a private point of view i would not prefer, the CF family needs to shift to another CF-Server. If not, CF will be one of many products by Adobe and it will not be as important as it was before at Macromedia. But if Adobe thinks about pushing CF, the would have to improve it with many new features and change the price to one a mass product. So either way, I guess it will be very interesting. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 18. April 2005 09:58 An: CF-Talk Betreff: macromedia and Adobe?! The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203427 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
The new roadmap is going to be Adobe .CF to compete with ..Net. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203420 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
There's this one: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/server_archive/articles/white_papers/allair ebusinessplatform1.pdf Of course Flex has one: http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/whitepapers/pdf/flex15_tech_wp.pdf Interestingly enough, Flex is going to have a CLR based version... - Calvin -Original Message- From: Will Tomlinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Maybe my .net vs. CF thread wasn't so kooky after all... I'm seeing talk in here of no roadmaps for CF, etc..etc.. This is touching on what my points were. h Will ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203421 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
and what did gel say about what happens to .net when shorthorn comes out and the whole avalon deal? maybe ms will have something new but i cant see their ".net road" traveling the distance From: Will Tomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Maybe my .net vs. CF thread wasn't so kooky after all... I'm seeing talk in here of no roadmaps for CF, etc..etc.. This is touching on what my points were. h Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203419 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Nope, that isn't HomeSite+. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > Alternatively, can you show me the product page link here: > http://www.macromedia.com/software/ ? > its at the bottom, under 5.5 and mentioned in the last paragraph on the ensuing page, about its bundled status with Dreamweaver's slow ass :) -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com "...straight cash homey" - randy moss, now a raider ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203418 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
It is, if you dig into the CD-ROM filesystem to grab it (it doesn't show up on the install menu). Sometimes a dead horse gets whipped at quite a bit before people realize it's just not going to make the distance no matter how hard they beat on it... Just like the 'is HomeSite+ dead discussion?'! :) - Calvin -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Is it not still included with Studio MX? The fact that you can't buy it standalone doesn't mean it's dead. Comatose, yes...on a feeding tube, yes...but not quite dead yet :) On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Okay, buy it directly and show me how you do it. > > Alternatively, can you show me the product page link here: > http://www.macromedia.com/software/ ? > > How about the developer center page here: > http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/ > ? > > =P > > - Calvin > > -Original Message- > From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:36 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > - Calvin > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > -- > tony > > Tony Weeg > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > "...straight cash homey" > - randy moss, now a raider > > ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203417 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Maybe my .net vs. CF thread wasn't so kooky after all... I'm seeing talk in here of no roadmaps for CF, etc..etc.. This is touching on what my points were. h Will ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203413 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
> Alternatively, can you show me the product page link here: > http://www.macromedia.com/software/ ? > its at the bottom, under 5.5 and mentioned in the last paragraph on the ensuing page, about its bundled status with Dreamweaver's slow ass :) -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com "...straight cash homey" - randy moss, now a raider ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203414 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Is it not still included with Studio MX? The fact that you can't buy it standalone doesn't mean it's dead. Comatose, yes...on a feeding tube, yes...but not quite dead yet :) On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Okay, buy it directly and show me how you do it. > > Alternatively, can you show me the product page link here: > http://www.macromedia.com/software/ ? > > How about the developer center page here: > http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/ > ? > > =P > > - Calvin > > -Original Message- > From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:36 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > - Calvin > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > -- > tony > > Tony Weeg > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > "...straight cash homey" > - randy moss, now a raider > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203408 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Okay, buy it directly and show me how you do it. Alternatively, can you show me the product page link here: http://www.macromedia.com/software/ ? How about the developer center page here: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/ ? =P - Calvin -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > - Calvin according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com "...straight cash homey" - randy moss, now a raider ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203405 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Mine too! Charlie Griefer wrote: > HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) > > On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>Note: Homesite+ is already dead. >>> >>>- Calvin >> >>according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? >> >>-- >>tony >> >>Tony Weeg >> >>macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer >>email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com >>blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ >>cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com >> >>"...straight cash homey" >>- randy moss, now a raider >> >> > > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203400 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
HS+ is alive and well on my machine :) On 4/18/05, Tony Weeg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > > > - Calvin > > according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? > > -- > tony > > Tony Weeg > > macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer > email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com > blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ > cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com > > "...straight cash homey" > - randy moss, now a raider > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203399 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
On 4/18/05, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Note: Homesite+ is already dead. > > - Calvin according to whom? cfstudio is dead, but im not sure homesite+ is? -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com "...straight cash homey" - randy moss, now a raider ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203396 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:59 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > And you would get real satisfaction for a longer period out of purely > maintaining... seriously? I think you will get bored pretty soon if you > have to work like a patchrobot day in day out. Geeze... I thought my mouth was empty, but now it seems somebody has put all these words in there...? ;^) I didn't say _I_ would do anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that some people are very comfortable in that role. There are people that love a language and just want to work in it - others who just don't want to learn anything new because they're just trying to make it to retirement. > Maybe some oil on the fire, but it is never too late to invest some of > your time into other products. I know, some people seem to have a dislike > against it, but playing with C# (VB.NET is dead) might help your career > and provides you with a different vision and the abilities to approach > problems in a different way. Same counts for Java. Going from Java to C# > is easier than going from C# to Java so keep that in mind. It might look a > bit abstract but once you know the basics of the IDE and the language, you > quickly end up playing with code in the late hours. It just depends on > wether you are interested. It has no negative sides, besides that you > start to get annoyed by differences. Too true - and the great thing about CF is that regardless what happens there are so many complementary skills to begin with. SQL/Database managment, Flash, JavaScript, DHTML, Java, Interface design, usability, accessibility, Graphic Design, etc - all of these skills are directly applicable to ColdFusion development. (Personally I think that JavaScript is one of the very best things you could learn today: knowing it means you know ActionScript, DHTML, Windows Scripting, SilkScript, etc - it's just used in so many products today.) Any of these skills might get you a job should CF disappear, but any of them will also improve your CF work should you want to stay in that game. Learning new skills doesn't mean you have to forsake your old skills - new skills should compliment your old skills. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203393 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
according to whom? -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com "...straight cash homey" - randy moss, now a raider ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203392 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree Micha, and it certainly didn't help that during significant CF events (such as the newest version - 7) Macromedia didn't even bother to let CF have the top banner on their website, for example. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Just some food for thought, but CF under the name of Macromedia was really hard for marketing. Macromedia has always been familiarized with Dreamweaver and Flash. If you talk Macromedia, you talk Flash. The rest of the nonflash related products never had that much marketing Flash had, or even the attitude being a Macromedia flagship product. It would not suprise me if alot of people didn't even know that Macromedia also delivers RoboDemo for example. I think the toughness of CF marketing continous under the Adobe brand, because Adobe to the outside world is a supplier of Acrobat, Illustrator and Photoshop. That Adobe has much more nice software to offer is often unknown to many people. Adobe is a company of those three products, and I think they would need an enormous amount or media attention to let the outside world know they deliver CF. For production the Flash Paper format is much quicker than PDF, totally agree. But what happens when Adobe gets their hands on it, another Acrobat software package eliminating all that light weight with plugins, extensions, or heavy weight interface? That same situation is going on with PDF, well, their last version improved drastically. Big changes are in user interfaces. Macromedia and Adobe fought about some patents, and with this merge you will get the best of both goods when talking about user interface. From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/18/2005 6:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Well, "Adobe" is easier to type than "Macromedia". -Original Message- From: Jack Dalaa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Wow, this is just totally surreal. Had a complete out-of-body experience there for a few minutes. The perspectives and consequences are just mind-boggling.. And not necessarily all bad. Adobe ColdFusion Adobe JRun Adobe Flex Adobe Dreamweaver ... Heh. The thought makes my head spin. I wonder what it will mean for CF. Wild stuff. Jack ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203390 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Note: Homesite+ is already dead. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > -Original Message- > From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:58 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! > > The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. For what it's worth after reading all these threads across many lists: First off this isn't a merger. It's an acquisition pure and simple (in fact while the Macromedia site says "merger" the Adobe site says "acquisition"). This is exactly what happened with Allaire/Macromedia by the way. Macromedia is, from the ground up, an online-centric company. Its tools and services are all for online use. Adobe is, from the ground up, a print-based/traditional media company: all of its online work has been added to print-based tools. In other words Adobe's bread and butter is traditional media while Macromedia's is new media. The merger makes perfect sense in that respect but where these two ideas cross is where the sparks will fly. I think that this is where the real battle lines will be drawn in this merger. To say, at this point, that ANY product will be eliminated is just plain guessing. If I had to make a prediction it would be something like the following, but of course as the senior management of any company can be quite literally insane anything could happen: +) ColdFusion is safe. It's a less popular product that its competition, to be sure, but it's more than popular enough to pay for its development and promotion and earn a profit. There's no overlap between CF and another Adobe tool. It'll stay - I predict with very little change to the teams or upgrade schedules - just as it is. +) Dreamweaver is safe but will get the treatment. It currently accounts for something like 80% of corporate web development - you don't throw numbers like that away. However Dreamweaver will get more bloated as compatibility with Adobe tools is added in (as was done when Dreamweaver was modified to "replace" CF Studio/Homesite) - Dreamweaver will end up as part of the "Adobe Creative Suite". +) Flash is safe. It's the primary target for the acquisition - it's staying put. Again it may get more bloated to provide compatibility with Adobe products, but the Flash player will probably end up being the least affected product. The Flash editor however might get the same treatment that DreamWeaver gets and end up as part of the "Adobe Creative Suite". +) Flashpaper isn't safe. Although it clearly has a niche to fill that Acrobat doesn't address I think the corporation will shitcan Flashpaper. The argument will be that Acrobat meets that need (even tho' it doesn't). +) Director is safe even tho' it's (now) more "traditional media" centric than other Macromedia tools. It's still a niche market, but one which it dominates. Again it pays for itself and earns a profit - it's not going anywhere. I do think that you'll see Director/Premier bundling happen sooner than later. +) Flex isn't safe (at least as it exists today). I think Flex's life depends on the adoption rate of the product. If Adobe sees Flex as an expensive niche market player (which we must agree it is) that requires a lot of legwork to make profitable (again, it seems like it does) they may just cut it to prevent future headaches. Even if that happens tho' I don't expect to see the technology behind Flex go away. It may be repurposed into a cheaper, more accessible form or added to other products. +) Smaller tools aren't safe. Things like HomeSite+, RoboHelp, Breeze, etc aren't safe just because of the corporate need to cut. The merged company will immediately attempt to show stockholders how concerned they are by eliminating redundancies - they will also throw at least a few sacrificial lambs on the altar of "streamlining". These smaller, niche products with little support will be the first to go. +) GoLive is dead. Dead. Dead. +) Freehand is almost certainly dead. Flash compatibility will be added to Illustrator and that's that (for that matter I'm surprised that Adobe hasn't just picked up Corel before now - I'm an ecstatic CorelDraw user but that company is like the walking dead). +) Most other Adobe products are safe: Acrobat, Premier, Photoshop, etc. They are all pretty much defacto standards in their areas. They're not going anyplace. That's about it. But my major prediction is that the real twisting of the knife will occur where there's an overlap in traditional and new medias - in that space anything can happen. Jim Davis
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And you would get real satisfaction for a longer period out of purely maintaining... seriously? I think you will get bored pretty soon if you have to work like a patchrobot day in day out. Maybe some oil on the fire, but it is never too late to invest some of your time into other products. I know, some people seem to have a dislike against it, but playing with C# (VB.NET is dead) might help your career and provides you with a different vision and the abilities to approach problems in a different way. Same counts for Java. Going from Java to C# is easier than going from C# to Java so keep that in mind. It might look a bit abstract but once you know the basics of the IDE and the language, you quickly end up playing with code in the late hours. It just depends on wether you are interested. It has no negative sides, besides that you start to get annoyed by differences. Just some food for thought. From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/18/2005 8:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > -Original Message- > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:23 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Not meaning to be rude, but don't you think that investing all of your > effort in one skill is turning out to be a bad idea? What happens if > Adobe/MM DOES kill off ColdFusion? Where will you be? This is not about > me I'll never defend all your eggs in one basket... but in the worst case scenario: ColdFusion is discontinued. Dead. No more development. NewAtlanta explodes in a shower of icy death. No more supported CFML. There are still ColdFusion applications - lots of them - out there. They will need to be maintained, extended, etc. I've got a friend that makes a fine living doing nothing but Tango development. Another making a not so fine living doing nothing but FileMaker development. We've still got people doing nothing but Cobol and PowerBuilder maintenance. All of us CFers wouldn't be supported by the remaining work, but many could be and a few could be for the rest of their lives. It takes a long time for even a moderately successful technology to completely die. (Still the more likely scenario is that NewAtlanta would expand it's base becoming the only stable supporter of CFML. It could also be likely that, with pressure, the CF source could be released as an Open Source product. Of course the most likely scenario in my mind is that nothing of any real importance will happen to CF at all.) Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203388 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
[snip] > Of course the most likely scenario in my mind is that nothing of any real > importance will happen to CF at all.) > > Jim Davis Couldn't agree more. The more I think about it, this is just positive news for CF. The server products like CF and Flex are incredibly important to Adobe. This is what they don't have, and what ties in very well to serve as a platform for delivering all sorts of content produced with the various tools, to all sorts of clients and devices. I see plenty of opportunity for Adobe to screw this up big time, but have kicked this around in my head all day (I'm in Europe, so have had more time to digest this), and I can only come to a positive conclusion. This will be great for CF. Bigger name. Bigger pockets. Exciting times. Turbulent for sure, but exciting. Jack ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203385 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree with both stances. MM does owe a certain part to the developers who committed time and effort to learning a technology that made them a bunch of money. However, MM/Adobe shouldn't keep a product around just because that's all you're willing to learn. It goes back to a fundamental argument. At lunch today I was discussing with colleagues about US Taxes and how if they did away with all the forms and went to a flat-tax many people would be extremely happy. However, what about the tax preparers and all of the people who make their living off the confusing system? Does this mean we shouldn't do a flat tax because it will make thousands unemployed? Personally, I don't think so. I think whatever your job is, you need to be mindful of the changes in your environment and be ready to adapt. This is even more true in a computer related field. I think learning new technologies is great so that you can use the right tool for the job. Some projects may work best with ASP.net, some PHP, some straight HTML and of course, some will be CF. It's the old mindset of having as many tools in your belt as possible. Yeah, it would be a pain for us to lose all of the cf-specific knowledge that we've picked up over the years, but hopefully, everyone has picked up concepts as well that can be adapted elsewhere. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Not meaning to be rude, but don't you think that investing all of your effort in one skill is turning out to be a bad idea? What happens if Adobe/MM DOES kill off ColdFusion? Where will you be? This is not about me being rude, it's about needing to realize that software languages/ technologies are here now, gone tomorrow, and you asking the company to stick with the technology because you've learned it is about as fruitful as asking the world to stop turning. And I really don't want to starve any families. But if they do, that's not Adobe/Macromedia's fault, that's the breadwinner's fault. - Matt Small ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203384 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Ugh, now this is a discussion of social morals and not Adobe/Macromedia and impending doom for ColdFusion. If you want to continue this, you can ping me on CF-Community. - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Kevin Aebig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Personally, I'm not too worried, my skills in C++ alone are enough to keep me warm at night, but... > This is not about me being rude, it's about needing > to realize that software languages/technologies are > here now, gone tomorrow, and you asking the company > to stick with the technology because you've learned > it is about as fruitful as asking the world to stop > turning. That might be true for alot, but products on the their 7th or 8th production version don't really seem to be a gamble. > And I really don't want to starve any families. But > if they do, that's not Adobe/Macromedia's fault, that's > the breadwinner's fault. And if I die in a GM car because of malfunction its my fault for choosing that car. I'm not saying that it is there fault, but they should maintain some kind of responsibility. My point is that its insulting for you to downplay this because it won't affect you if it happens. Its quite uncompassionate to assume that everyone else is as secure as you. Kevin ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203381 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:23 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Not meaning to be rude, but don't you think that investing all of your > effort in one skill is turning out to be a bad idea? What happens if > Adobe/MM DOES kill off ColdFusion? Where will you be? This is not about > me I'll never defend all your eggs in one basket... but in the worst case scenario: ColdFusion is discontinued. Dead. No more development. NewAtlanta explodes in a shower of icy death. No more supported CFML. There are still ColdFusion applications - lots of them - out there. They will need to be maintained, extended, etc. I've got a friend that makes a fine living doing nothing but Tango development. Another making a not so fine living doing nothing but FileMaker development. We've still got people doing nothing but Cobol and PowerBuilder maintenance. All of us CFers wouldn't be supported by the remaining work, but many could be and a few could be for the rest of their lives. It takes a long time for even a moderately successful technology to completely die. (Still the more likely scenario is that NewAtlanta would expand it's base becoming the only stable supporter of CFML. It could also be likely that, with pressure, the CF source could be released as an Open Source product. Of course the most likely scenario in my mind is that nothing of any real importance will happen to CF at all.) Jim Davis ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203378 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
That's exactly how I got into CF. I'm not a programmer. --- Kevin Graeme Cooperative Extension Technology Services University of Wisconsin-Extension > -Original Message- > From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:52 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out > there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to > make their websites better. CF may catch on for the "little > guy" even more who isn't a "programmer" but wants to use > so his menu only has to exist in one file. > > > John Burns > Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, > Inc. | Web Developer ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203376 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Personally, I'm not too worried, my skills in C++ alone are enough to keep me warm at night, but... > This is not about me being rude, it's about needing > to realize that software languages/technologies are > here now, gone tomorrow, and you asking the company > to stick with the technology because you've learned > it is about as fruitful as asking the world to stop > turning. That might be true for alot, but products on the their 7th or 8th production version don't really seem to be a gamble. > And I really don't want to starve any families. But > if they do, that's not Adobe/Macromedia's fault, that's > the breadwinner's fault. And if I die in a GM car because of malfunction its my fault for choosing that car. I'm not saying that it is there fault, but they should maintain some kind of responsibility. My point is that its insulting for you to downplay this because it won't affect you if it happens. Its quite uncompassionate to assume that everyone else is as secure as you. Kevin -- http://www.keslabs.com Coldfusion Remote Dashboard :: http://www.keslabs.com/crd -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Not meaning to be rude, but don't you think that investing all of your effort in one skill is turning out to be a bad idea? What happens if Adobe/MM DOES kill off ColdFusion? Where will you be? This is not about me being rude, it's about needing to realize that software languages/ technologies are here now, gone tomorrow, and you asking the company to stick with the technology because you've learned it is about as fruitful as asking the world to stop turning. And I really don't want to starve any families. But if they do, that's not Adobe/Macromedia's fault, that's the breadwinner's fault. - Matt Small -Original Message----- From: Kevin Aebig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! >You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's >just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other >things that do it as well. As gently as I can put this, speak for yourself. I've supported MM since Flash 3 and the integration of CF into their product line. All I've asked in return was that they protect my investment in knowledge and help it grow. Now I need to worry about another company running the show and potentially running them into the ground to push ahead their own products. For you to insinuate this as no big deal is pretty rude considering that alot of their products help feed many families. Kevin -- http://www.keslabs.com Coldfusion Remote Dashboard :: http://www.keslabs.com/crd -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I agree, it seems like most everybody on the list is Chicken Little. This is a company merger and nothing has been said about what the real impact on CF or Flash or anything is. Ben, oh Ben, where are you? Help us! You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other things that do it as well. Think about the opportunities if CF does come to an end - which it won't - there will be fewer and fewer people doing it, meaning that conversions to new systems will take place, and you can be a major player in phasing it out and then you will get the opportunity to learn a new technology which you will probably then become a huge fan of because it's so much better than all the others: "Why in the world would anybody want to use anything other than Visual Java .PHP? It's the fastest and most scalable, and the compiler automatically detects diseases in your body and deletes them!" I can program in Java, CF, .NET (VB, C#), C++, Fortran, Pascal, Javascript... big deal, it's all the same. It's a bunch of conditionals that lead to a conclusion. It's a Find-You-Own-Adventure book for computers. There's a learning curve to get the most out of them, and some are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, right?), but if you can program in CF, then you should be able to adapt to the others. If you can't adapt, then you are left in the cold and rightfully so. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I am not saying I know anything private here, but I do not really see a reason to be concerned. In fact, this could
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:11 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! > > Just some food for thought, but CF under the name of Macromedia was really > hard for marketing. Macromedia has always been familiarized with > Dreamweaver and Flash. If you talk Macromedia, you talk Flash. That depends on when you start. When Macromedia was Macromind (and for a while thereafter) you only spoke "Director". Remember that Flash was an acquired product for Macromedia - not an in house product. It definitely brought them to the fore, but it wasn't their baby. They were able to incorporate the product and promote it. > The rest of the nonflash related products never had that much marketing > Flash had, or even the attitude being a Macromedia flagship product. It > would not suprise me if alot of people didn't even know that Macromedia > also delivers RoboDemo for example. I don't really think this equates. Flash is the "everybody" thing for Macromedia. You need to get the message out about the player (to get it on the systems) or you can't sell the authoring tool. For other Macromedia products this just isn't the case: RoboDemo is a niche product at best being marketed to a niche demographic (as is RoboHelp and, for that matter, ColdFusion). You'll never see the same kind of push for those products because they simply don't need it. > Big changes are in user interfaces. Macromedia and Adobe fought about some > patents, and with this merge you will get the best of both goods when > talking about user interface. I agree completely here. Functionality is becoming commoditized. You want a stock list? Hundreds of sites can provide that. You want a shopping cart? Hundreds of thousands of sites can provide that. What's going to sell in the future is the experience: the attractive, fast, easy-to-use stock list is going to outsell the last generation HTML table stock list with the same exact information. The same goes for editors, authoring tools, etc. Macromedia has a top-notch usability and interface development team. I hope it will be put to good use and allowed to grow to the level of Microsoft or Apple. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203374 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Jim Davis wrote: > > +) Flex isn't safe (at least as it exists today). I think Flex's life > depends on the adoption rate of the product. If Adobe sees Flex as an > expensive niche market player (which we must agree it is) that requires a > lot of legwork to make profitable (again, it seems like it does) they may > just cut it to prevent future headaches. > > Even if that happens tho' I don't expect to see the technology behind Flex > go away. It may be repurposed into a cheaper, more accessible form or added > to other products. Generator went away. But look at cfchart :) Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203370 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
dave wrote: > What I was saying was that if Adobe chooses to discontinue cfm then > new atlanta should purchase the rights and continue forward. Yup, gotcha. That's pretty much what I thought you were saying. > > From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:57 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! > > dave wrote: > >>or sell it to new atlanta, in which case hopefully they'd hire away >>the current cfm guys to continue on, which wouldnt be too bad. > > > As a second worst-case scenario (mainly because New Atlanta don't > exactly have the same kind of resources as Adobe or MM, or even I think > Allaire in its day), that's a pretty decent place to be, albeit a bit > odd seeing as we'd have almost the same product twice from the same > company... > > K. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203369 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
And that is were it goes wrong with CF imo. There is no roadmap, there is not clear future, and those are all essential arguments (requirements) in selecting a product with which you can support your customers for many years. True, CF has been on the market for 10 years, but still there was always the tension of takeovers and a stable supplier. Like many others, people love the product but it is quite unclear what the future will be. If you compare this to other products, PHP has a roadmap, Java has a roadmap, ASP.NET has a roadmap. Whereas Java and Microsoft are just more easier to sell for more money by account managers. Throw in Microsoft and you see twinkling eyes, they don't even know what you are talking about but the name Microsoft does it. Pretty stupid, but unfortunately that is how the market works. Combine that with some outsourcing in India (20x cheaper) or Rumenia (4x cheaper) and the developer versus money is a closed discussion. Maybe we might see a totally free ColdFusion *wink* allowing a much larger amount of people to develop CF applications. It takes some niche away from the product, but it sure as hell would spice up the usage because of its easy acceptance by developers. I don't know any sales numbers for CF, but if Adobe might look at the product as a free gift product we might have some fun in a short amount of time. From: Bryan F. Hogan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/18/2005 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I have been a proponent of CF for a long time. However I recently was hired to work for a gaming (gambling) Hotel in LV and I will not bring CF with me. In the past 4 years CF has been moved around far too much. I will not work with a product that I feel may not be here from one day to the next especially when that amount of money is being moved. This isn't anything new, but hearing today's news that was the point the Ivory Tower fell. -Original Message- From: Richard Crawford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! On Monday 18 April 2005 09:47, Connie DeCinko wrote: > I think he was just looking for an excuse, any excuse to ditch CF. Now he > thinks he has it. Whereas in our office we'll be migrating from CF to PHP over the next few months. But that's been in the works for over a year now. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203368 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Not meaning to be rude, but don't you think that investing all of your effort in one skill is turning out to be a bad idea? What happens if Adobe/MM DOES kill off ColdFusion? Where will you be? This is not about me being rude, it's about needing to realize that software languages/ technologies are here now, gone tomorrow, and you asking the company to stick with the technology because you've learned it is about as fruitful as asking the world to stop turning. And I really don't want to starve any families. But if they do, that's not Adobe/Macromedia's fault, that's the breadwinner's fault. - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Kevin Aebig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! >You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's >just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other >things that do it as well. As gently as I can put this, speak for yourself. I've supported MM since Flash 3 and the integration of CF into their product line. All I've asked in return was that they protect my investment in knowledge and help it grow. Now I need to worry about another company running the show and potentially running them into the ground to push ahead their own products. For you to insinuate this as no big deal is pretty rude considering that alot of their products help feed many families. Kevin -- http://www.keslabs.com Coldfusion Remote Dashboard :: http://www.keslabs.com/crd -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I agree, it seems like most everybody on the list is Chicken Little. This is a company merger and nothing has been said about what the real impact on CF or Flash or anything is. Ben, oh Ben, where are you? Help us! You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other things that do it as well. Think about the opportunities if CF does come to an end - which it won't - there will be fewer and fewer people doing it, meaning that conversions to new systems will take place, and you can be a major player in phasing it out and then you will get the opportunity to learn a new technology which you will probably then become a huge fan of because it's so much better than all the others: "Why in the world would anybody want to use anything other than Visual Java PHP? It's the fastest and most scalable, and the compiler automatically detects diseases in your body and deletes them!" I can program in Java, CF, .NET (VB, C#), C++, Fortran, Pascal, Javascript... big deal, it's all the same. It's a bunch of conditionals that lead to a conclusion. It's a Find-You-Own-Adventure book for computers. There's a learning curve to get the most out of them, and some are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, right?), but if you can program in CF, then you should be able to adapt to the others. If you can't adapt, then you are left in the cold and rightfully so. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I am not saying I know anything private here, but I do not really see a reason to be concerned. In fact, this could be really, really good for CF. Adobe has been trying all sorts of ways to get into open source for the last couple of years. Would not be terribly surprised to see CF become a purely open source product. M --- Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adobe is not adverse to servers. They have a > document server that can > be used to dynamically generate pdfs > http://www.adobe.com/products/server/documentserver/main.html > > Could be good could be bad. Adobe is a pretty good > company though so I > personally am trying to not jump to any conclusions. > > -- > ~Blog~ > http://www.robrohan.com > ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ > http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > ~open source xslt IDE~ > http://treebeard.sourceforge.net > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203366 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
What I was saying was that if Adobe chooses to discontinue cfm then new atlanta should purchase the rights and continue forward. From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:57 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! dave wrote: > or sell it to new atlanta, in which case hopefully they'd hire away > the current cfm guys to continue on, which wouldnt be too bad. As a second worst-case scenario (mainly because New Atlanta don't exactly have the same kind of resources as Adobe or MM, or even I think Allaire in its day), that's a pretty decent place to be, albeit a bit odd seeing as we'd have almost the same product twice from the same company... K. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203365 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
A plus i see is that all these arty fartsy schools that rely on photoshop and such maybe able to add cfm now so the designers don't have to learn there few lines of php to send an email form their sites and then would continue on with cfm down the road such as they now do with php. Now if Adobe had enough resources to reduce cfm's cost significantly or for free then I think there would be a huge cfm explosion and could take it to new heights, whether or not they could do that I dont know. From: "Burns, John D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites better. CF may catch on for the "little guy" even more who isn't a "programmer" but wants to use so his menu only has to exist in one file. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! That is what I am hoping. If Adobe does the minimal bit of marketing of ColdFusion, it will be much more than Macromedia. I would think that Adobe would *want* to keep CF just to piss off Microsoft. ;) -Original Message- From: Connie DeCinko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! One ray of hope.. If Adobe keeps ColdFusion, maybe now we have a better chance of increased marketing, increased training opportunities and increased acceptance by the business world. Maybe now we can get some of the colleges to teach ColdFusion. This may be the break we need to get people to realize how much better CF is than PHP, JSP and .NET. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203363 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Just some food for thought, but CF under the name of Macromedia was really hard for marketing. Macromedia has always been familiarized with Dreamweaver and Flash. If you talk Macromedia, you talk Flash. The rest of the nonflash related products never had that much marketing Flash had, or even the attitude being a Macromedia flagship product. It would not suprise me if alot of people didn't even know that Macromedia also delivers RoboDemo for example. I think the toughness of CF marketing continous under the Adobe brand, because Adobe to the outside world is a supplier of Acrobat, Illustrator and Photoshop. That Adobe has much more nice software to offer is often unknown to many people. Adobe is a company of those three products, and I think they would need an enormous amount or media attention to let the outside world know they deliver CF. For production the Flash Paper format is much quicker than PDF, totally agree. But what happens when Adobe gets their hands on it, another Acrobat software package eliminating all that light weight with plugins, extensions, or heavy weight interface? That same situation is going on with PDF, well, their last version improved drastically. Big changes are in user interfaces. Macromedia and Adobe fought about some patents, and with this merge you will get the best of both goods when talking about user interface. From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 4/18/2005 6:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! Well, "Adobe" is easier to type than "Macromedia". -Original Message- From: Jack Dalaa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Wow, this is just totally surreal. Had a complete out-of-body experience there for a few minutes. The perspectives and consequences are just mind-boggling.. And not necessarily all bad. Adobe ColdFusion Adobe JRun Adobe Flex Adobe Dreamweaver .. Heh. The thought makes my head spin. I wonder what it will mean for CF. Wild stuff. Jack ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203360 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
>You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's >just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other >things that do it as well. As gently as I can put this, speak for yourself. I've supported MM since Flash 3 and the integration of CF into their product line. All I've asked in return was that they protect my investment in knowledge and help it grow. Now I need to worry about another company running the show and potentially running them into the ground to push ahead their own products. For you to insinuate this as no big deal is pretty rude considering that alot of their products help feed many families. Kevin -- http://www.keslabs.com Coldfusion Remote Dashboard :: http://www.keslabs.com/crd -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I agree, it seems like most everybody on the list is Chicken Little. This is a company merger and nothing has been said about what the real impact on CF or Flash or anything is. Ben, oh Ben, where are you? Help us! You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other things that do it as well. Think about the opportunities if CF does come to an end - which it won't - there will be fewer and fewer people doing it, meaning that conversions to new systems will take place, and you can be a major player in phasing it out and then you will get the opportunity to learn a new technology which you will probably then become a huge fan of because it's so much better than all the others: "Why in the world would anybody want to use anything other than Visual Java ...PHP? It's the fastest and most scalable, and the compiler automatically detects diseases in your body and deletes them!" I can program in Java, CF, .NET (VB, C#), C++, Fortran, Pascal, Javascript... big deal, it's all the same. It's a bunch of conditionals that lead to a conclusion. It's a Find-You-Own-Adventure book for computers. There's a learning curve to get the most out of them, and some are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, right?), but if you can program in CF, then you should be able to adapt to the others. If you can't adapt, then you are left in the cold and rightfully so. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I am not saying I know anything private here, but I do not really see a reason to be concerned. In fact, this could be really, really good for CF. Adobe has been trying all sorts of ways to get into open source for the last couple of years. Would not be terribly surprised to see CF become a purely open source product. M --- Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adobe is not adverse to servers. They have a > document server that can > be used to dynamically generate pdfs > http://www.adobe.com/products/server/documentserver/main.html > > Could be good could be bad. Adobe is a pretty good > company though so I > personally am trying to not jump to any conclusions. > > -- > ~Blog~ > http://www.robrohan.com > ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ > http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > ~open source xslt IDE~ > http://treebeard.sourceforge.net > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203357 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
> -Original Message- > From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:58 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: macromedia and Adobe?! > > The macromedia Home Page looks interesting.. For what it's worth after reading all these threads across many lists: First off this isn't a merger. It's an acquisition pure and simple (in fact while the Macromedia site says "merger" the Adobe site says "acquisition"). This is exactly what happened with Allaire/Macromedia by the way. Macromedia is, from the ground up, an online-centric company. Its tools and services are all for online use. Adobe is, from the ground up, a print-based/traditional media company: all of its online work has been added to print-based tools. In other words Adobe's bread and butter is traditional media while Macromedia's is new media. The merger makes perfect sense in that respect but where these two ideas cross is where the sparks will fly. I think that this is where the real battle lines will be drawn in this merger. To say, at this point, that ANY product will be eliminated is just plain guessing. If I had to make a prediction it would be something like the following, but of course as the senior management of any company can be quite literally insane anything could happen: +) ColdFusion is safe. It's a less popular product that its competition, to be sure, but it's more than popular enough to pay for its development and promotion and earn a profit. There's no overlap between CF and another Adobe tool. It'll stay - I predict with very little change to the teams or upgrade schedules - just as it is. +) Dreamweaver is safe but will get the treatment. It currently accounts for something like 80% of corporate web development - you don't throw numbers like that away. However Dreamweaver will get more bloated as compatibility with Adobe tools is added in (as was done when Dreamweaver was modified to "replace" CF Studio/Homesite) - Dreamweaver will end up as part of the "Adobe Creative Suite". +) Flash is safe. It's the primary target for the acquisition - it's staying put. Again it may get more bloated to provide compatibility with Adobe products, but the Flash player will probably end up being the least affected product. The Flash editor however might get the same treatment that DreamWeaver gets and end up as part of the "Adobe Creative Suite". +) Flashpaper isn't safe. Although it clearly has a niche to fill that Acrobat doesn't address I think the corporation will shitcan Flashpaper. The argument will be that Acrobat meets that need (even tho' it doesn't). +) Director is safe even tho' it's (now) more "traditional media" centric than other Macromedia tools. It's still a niche market, but one which it dominates. Again it pays for itself and earns a profit - it's not going anywhere. I do think that you'll see Director/Premier bundling happen sooner than later. +) Flex isn't safe (at least as it exists today). I think Flex's life depends on the adoption rate of the product. If Adobe sees Flex as an expensive niche market player (which we must agree it is) that requires a lot of legwork to make profitable (again, it seems like it does) they may just cut it to prevent future headaches. Even if that happens tho' I don't expect to see the technology behind Flex go away. It may be repurposed into a cheaper, more accessible form or added to other products. +) Smaller tools aren't safe. Things like HomeSite+, RoboHelp, Breeze, etc aren't safe just because of the corporate need to cut. The merged company will immediately attempt to show stockholders how concerned they are by eliminating redundancies - they will also throw at least a few sacrificial lambs on the altar of "streamlining". These smaller, niche products with little support will be the first to go. +) GoLive is dead. Dead. Dead. +) Freehand is almost certainly dead. Flash compatibility will be added to Illustrator and that's that (for that matter I'm surprised that Adobe hasn't just picked up Corel before now - I'm an ecstatic CorelDraw user but that company is like the walking dead). +) Most other Adobe products are safe: Acrobat, Premier, Photoshop, etc. They are all pretty much defacto standards in their areas. They're not going anyplace. That's about it. But my major prediction is that the real twisting of the knife will occur where there's an overlap in traditional and new medias - in that space anything can happen. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client w
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
Another plus for CF is that all of the graphic designers out there now have an easy-to-learn product that they can use to make their websites better. CF may catch on for the "little guy" even more who isn't a "programmer" but wants to use so his menu only has to exist in one file. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! That is what I am hoping. If Adobe does the minimal bit of marketing of ColdFusion, it will be much more than Macromedia. I would think that Adobe would *want* to keep CF just to piss off Microsoft. ;) -Original Message- From: Connie DeCinko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! One ray of hope.. If Adobe keeps ColdFusion, maybe now we have a better chance of increased marketing, increased training opportunities and increased acceptance by the business world. Maybe now we can get some of the colleges to teach ColdFusion. This may be the break we need to get people to realize how much better CF is than PHP, JSP and .NET. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203352 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
dave wrote: > or sell it to new atlanta, in which case hopefully they'd hire away > the current cfm guys to continue on, which wouldnt be too bad. As a second worst-case scenario (mainly because New Atlanta don't exactly have the same kind of resources as Adobe or MM, or even I think Allaire in its day), that's a pretty decent place to be, albeit a bit odd seeing as we'd have almost the same product twice from the same company... K. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203350 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
i hope there is no IF and CF not a nice ring in my ear tony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203347 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
Adrocknaphobia wrote: > I don't feel like reading all 70 of the posts in the this thread, so > lets jsut put it this way. If you are worried about CF getting the > boot, then get your comapnies to buy as many CFMX7 licenses as they > can. Afterall, they wont give the boot to a product line that returns > a profit. Make CFMX7 the best selling version yet. CF? 'Tis safe as houses. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203346 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) is typically created by lack of information, that anyone would be surprised that folks won't be scared is what is really surprising, or not really. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: macromedia and Adobe?! I agree, it seems like most everybody on the list is Chicken Little. This is a company merger and nothing has been said about what the real impact on CF or Flash or anything is. Ben, oh Ben, where are you? Help us! You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other things that do it as well. Think about the opportunities if CF does come to an end - which it won't - there will be fewer and fewer people doing it, meaning that conversions to new systems will take place, and you can be a major player in phasing it out and then you will get the opportunity to learn a new technology which you will probably then become a huge fan of because it's so much better than all the others: "Why in the world would anybody want to use anything other than Visual Java ...PHP? It's the fastest and most scalable, and the compiler automatically detects diseases in your body and deletes them!" I can program in Java, CF, .NET (VB, C#), C++, Fortran, Pascal, Javascript... big deal, it's all the same. It's a bunch of conditionals that lead to a conclusion. It's a Find-You-Own-Adventure book for computers. There's a learning curve to get the most out of them, and some are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, right?), but if you can program in CF, then you should be able to adapt to the others. If you can't adapt, then you are left in the cold and rightfully so. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I am not saying I know anything private here, but I do not really see a reason to be concerned. In fact, this could be really, really good for CF. Adobe has been trying all sorts of ways to get into open source for the last couple of years. Would not be terribly surprised to see CF become a purely open source product. M --- Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adobe is not adverse to servers. They have a > document server that can > be used to dynamically generate pdfs > http://www.adobe.com/products/server/documentserver/main.html > > Could be good could be bad. Adobe is a pretty good > company though so I > personally am trying to not jump to any conclusions. > > -- > ~Blog~ > http://www.robrohan.com > ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ > http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > ~open source xslt IDE~ > http://treebeard.sourceforge.net > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203343 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
> are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, > right?), Ummm...it can nowcheck out Damon Cooper's Blog for an example of using the Async CFML gateway to do just that ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com/54 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203341 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I have been a proponent of CF for a long time. However I recently was hired to work for a gaming (gambling) Hotel in LV and I will not bring CF with me. In the past 4 years CF has been moved around far too much. I will not work with a product that I feel may not be here from one day to the next especially when that amount of money is being moved. This isn't anything new, but hearing today's news that was the point the Ivory Tower fell. -Original Message- From: Richard Crawford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! On Monday 18 April 2005 09:47, Connie DeCinko wrote: > I think he was just looking for an excuse, any excuse to ditch CF. Now he > thinks he has it. Whereas in our office we'll be migrating from CF to PHP over the next few months. But that's been in the works for over a year now. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203338 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: macromedia and Adobe?!
or sell it to new atlanta, in which case hopefully they'd hire away the current cfm guys to continue on, which wouldnt be too bad. From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! Ryan Duckworth wrote: > I think that most ColdFusion programmers / managers are overreacting > to this announcement. Agreed. If anything, this is an excellent opportunity for New Atlanta what with the internal upheavals at the new company most probably having a knock-on effect on development speed. And CF's a great product. While I wouldn't put it beyond Adobe to screw the pooch on this one and try to retire CF, I think they'll do exactly the same thing as Macromedia did, and stick with it. K. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203336 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: macromedia and Adobe?!
I agree, it seems like most everybody on the list is Chicken Little. This is a company merger and nothing has been said about what the real impact on CF or Flash or anything is. Ben, oh Ben, where are you? Help us! You know, even if CF meets its maker, it's not the end of the world. It's just a tool that we all use to make a living. Big deal, there are other things that do it as well. Think about the opportunities if CF does come to an end - which it won't - there will be fewer and fewer people doing it, meaning that conversions to new systems will take place, and you can be a major player in phasing it out and then you will get the opportunity to learn a new technology which you will probably then become a huge fan of because it's so much better than all the others: "Why in the world would anybody want to use anything other than Visual Java ..PHP? It's the fastest and most scalable, and the compiler automatically detects diseases in your body and deletes them!" I can program in Java, CF, .NET (VB, C#), C++, Fortran, Pascal, Javascript... big deal, it's all the same. It's a bunch of conditionals that lead to a conclusion. It's a Find-You-Own-Adventure book for computers. There's a learning curve to get the most out of them, and some are better than others for certain tasks (CF can't do multi-threading, right?), but if you can program in CF, then you should be able to adapt to the others. If you can't adapt, then you are left in the cold and rightfully so. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Michael Haggerty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: macromedia and Adobe?! I am not saying I know anything private here, but I do not really see a reason to be concerned. In fact, this could be really, really good for CF. Adobe has been trying all sorts of ways to get into open source for the last couple of years. Would not be terribly surprised to see CF become a purely open source product. M --- Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adobe is not adverse to servers. They have a > document server that can > be used to dynamically generate pdfs > http://www.adobe.com/products/server/documentserver/main.html > > Could be good could be bad. Adobe is a pretty good > company though so I > personally am trying to not jump to any conclusions. > > -- > ~Blog~ > http://www.robrohan.com > ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ > http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > ~open source xslt IDE~ > http://treebeard.sourceforge.net > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203337 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
