RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[adam lee]

His wife probably took it from his girlfriend, ah, I mean assistant.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
EA Louie
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 11:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


dang, does that mean The Dukes of Hazzard is coming back?  (I loved Daisy
Duke in dem dere cutoffs...)

Did Mayor Brown donate his Porsche to the homeless, or did the CHP
confiscate it because he had too many unpaid speeding tickets?

-e-

- Original Message -
From: adam lee
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 You haven't heard?  Willie traded in his expensive sports car for a
classic
 used car, THE GENERAL LEE.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
 EA Louie
 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:30 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 Jason - I heard that Willie's latest passion is hillbilly music...right
 after filling potholes and tossing the homeless out of GG Park  ;-)

 -e-

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Roysdon
 To:
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 8:30 PM
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  Heh, interesting.  Of course, my friend is a white oakie who likes his
  country without all that new-fangled hipness (I say stuff like that to
 tease
  him).  You know, with a banjo, and no drums!  Somehow I don't think he
has
  any special connections there.
 
  --
  Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
  List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
 
 
 
  EA Louie  wrote in message
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
   lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's
 talking
   about his buddy...
  
   -e-
  
   - Original Message -
   From: adam lee
   To:
   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
   Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
  
Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?
   
   
  
 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL
   
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
   
   
My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months
 ago
with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K
 contract
   with
his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his
 former
employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for
 the
last 6 mos.)
   
Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network
 in
  15
minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does
in
 a
   few
clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
   hardware).
And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show
 off,
   he's
got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
   networks,
but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy
before.
   
Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up
 his
MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the
 CNE5
  in
   3
months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
   experience
as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever
 goes
home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the
office
  for
those late nights.
   
The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his
  gross
salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
cablemodems).
   
I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over
 with
   RH5
one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and
we
proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.
  Hehee.
   
--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
   
   
   
Brian  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets
you.

 1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and
will
  let
 you go when the transition is complete.

 2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy
 mishmash
 network.

 I'll pass either way.

 Brian Sonic Whalen
 Success = Preparation + Opportunity


 On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
  I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at
4.11.
   never
 up'd
  to 5
  Don
 
  - Original Message 

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[EA Louie]

Jason - I heard that Willie's latest passion is hillbilly music...right
after filling potholes and tossing the homeless out of GG Park  ;-)

-e-

- Original Message -
From: Jason Roysdon 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 Heh, interesting.  Of course, my friend is a white oakie who likes his
 country without all that new-fangled hipness (I say stuff like that to
tease
 him).  You know, with a banjo, and no drums!  Somehow I don't think he has
 any special connections there.

 --
 Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
 List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



 EA Louie  wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's
talking
  about his buddy...
 
  -e-
 
  - Original Message -
  From: adam lee
  To:
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
  Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
   Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?
  
  
 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
  
   My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months
ago
   with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K
contract
  with
   his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his
former
   employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for
the
   last 6 mos.)
  
   Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network
in
 15
   minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in
a
  few
   clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
  hardware).
   And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show
off,
  he's
   got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
  networks,
   but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.
  
   Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up
his
   MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the
CNE5
 in
  3
   months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
  experience
   as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever
goes
   home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office
 for
   those late nights.
  
   The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his
 gross
   salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
   cablemodems).
  
   I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over
with
  RH5
   one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
   proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.
 Hehee.
  
   --
   Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
   List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
  
  
  
   Brian  wrote in message
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.
   
1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will
 let
you go when the transition is complete.
   
2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy
mishmash
network.
   
I'll pass either way.
   
Brian Sonic Whalen
Success = Preparation + Opportunity
   
   
On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
   
 The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
 I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11.
  never
up'd
 to 5
 Don

 - Original Message -
 From: Ronnie Poon
 To:
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
     Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
 
  Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it
  happened
   to
 that
   program. OH well I still want to be part of the
swelling
   ranks.
 You
   could drop out and help us out though :).
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Tennesee Stud
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
   Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It
seems
 to
   me
 now
   that
there are so many books and training materials geared
towards
  the
 CCIE,
  it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet
of
  the
 right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time
 with
 routers
   and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), 

RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[adam lee]

You haven't heard?  Willie traded in his expensive sports car for a classic
used car, THE GENERAL LEE.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
EA Louie
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


Jason - I heard that Willie's latest passion is hillbilly music...right
after filling potholes and tossing the homeless out of GG Park  ;-)

-e-

- Original Message -
From: Jason Roysdon
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 Heh, interesting.  Of course, my friend is a white oakie who likes his
 country without all that new-fangled hipness (I say stuff like that to
tease
 him).  You know, with a banjo, and no drums!  Somehow I don't think he has
 any special connections there.

 --
 Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
 List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



 EA Louie  wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's
talking
  about his buddy...
 
  -e-
 
  - Original Message -
  From: adam lee
  To:
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
  Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
   Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?
  
  
 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
  
   My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months
ago
   with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K
contract
  with
   his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his
former
   employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for
the
   last 6 mos.)
  
   Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network
in
 15
   minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in
a
  few
   clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
  hardware).
   And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show
off,
  he's
   got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
  networks,
   but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.
  
   Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up
his
   MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the
CNE5
 in
  3
   months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
  experience
   as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever
goes
   home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office
 for
   those late nights.
  
   The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his
 gross
   salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
   cablemodems).
  
   I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over
with
  RH5
   one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
   proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.
 Hehee.
  
   --
   Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
   List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
  
  
  
   Brian  wrote in message
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.
   
1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will
 let
you go when the transition is complete.
   
2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy
mishmash
network.
   
I'll pass either way.
   
Brian Sonic Whalen
Success = Preparation + Opportunity
   
   
On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
   
 The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
 I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11.
  never
up'd
 to 5
 Don

 - Original Message -
 From: Ronnie Poon
 To:
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
     Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
 
  Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it
  happened
   to
 that
   program. OH well I still want to be part of the
swelling
   ranks.
 You
   could drop out and help us out though :).
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Tennesee Stud
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
   Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It
seems
 to
   me
 now
   that
there a

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[EA Louie]

dang, does that mean The Dukes of Hazzard is coming back?  (I loved Daisy
Duke in dem dere cutoffs...)

Did Mayor Brown donate his Porsche to the homeless, or did the CHP
confiscate it because he had too many unpaid speeding tickets?

-e-

- Original Message -
From: adam lee 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 You haven't heard?  Willie traded in his expensive sports car for a
classic
 used car, THE GENERAL LEE.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
 EA Louie
 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:30 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 Jason - I heard that Willie's latest passion is hillbilly music...right
 after filling potholes and tossing the homeless out of GG Park  ;-)

 -e-

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Roysdon
 To:
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 8:30 PM
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  Heh, interesting.  Of course, my friend is a white oakie who likes his
  country without all that new-fangled hipness (I say stuff like that to
 tease
  him).  You know, with a banjo, and no drums!  Somehow I don't think he
has
  any special connections there.
 
  --
  Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
  List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
 
 
 
  EA Louie  wrote in message
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
   lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's
 talking
   about his buddy...
  
   -e-
  
   - Original Message -
   From: adam lee
   To:
   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
   Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
  
Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?
   
   
  
 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL
   
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
   
   
My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months
 ago
with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K
 contract
   with
his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his
 former
employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for
 the
last 6 mos.)
   
Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network
 in
  15
minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does
in
 a
   few
clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
   hardware).
And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show
 off,
   he's
got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
   networks,
but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy
before.
   
Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up
 his
MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the
 CNE5
  in
   3
months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
   experience
as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever
 goes
home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the
office
  for
those late nights.
   
The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his
  gross
salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
cablemodems).
   
I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over
 with
   RH5
one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and
we
proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.
  Hehee.
   
--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
   
   
   
Brian  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets
you.

 1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and
will
  let
 you go when the transition is complete.

 2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy
 mishmash
 network.

 I'll pass either way.

 Brian Sonic Whalen
 Success = Preparation + Opportunity


 On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
  I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at
4.11.
   never
 up'd
  to 5
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Ronnie Poon
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
      Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
   How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
  
   Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
  
Yeah I 

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[EA Louie]

lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's talking
about his buddy...

-e-

- Original Message -
From: adam lee 
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months ago
 with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K contract
with
 his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his former
 employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for the
 last 6 mos.)

 Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network in 15
 minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in a
few
 clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
hardware).
 And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show off,
he's
 got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
networks,
 but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.

 Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up his
 MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the CNE5 in
3
 months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
experience
 as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever goes
 home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office for
 those late nights.

 The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his gross
 salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
 cablemodems).

 I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over with
RH5
 one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
 proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.  Hehee.

 --
 Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
 List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



 Brian  wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.
 
  1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will let
  you go when the transition is complete.
 
  2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy mishmash
  network.
 
  I'll pass either way.
 
  Brian Sonic Whalen
  Success = Preparation + Opportunity
 
 
  On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
   I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11.
never
  up'd
   to 5
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Ronnie Poon
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
   Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
  
How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
   
Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
   
 Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it
happened
 to
   that
 program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling
 ranks.
   You
 could drop out and help us out though :).
 Don

 - Original Message -
 From: Tennesee Stud
 To:
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
 Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

  I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to
 me
   now
 that
  there are so many books and training materials geared towards
the
   CCIE,
it
  is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of
the
   right
  books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
   routers
 and
  switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem
as
 difficlut
  as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion
is
 the
CCIE
  will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as
  salary
   is
  concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the
 CCIE
  population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching),
 and
   even
  though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years
 there
   will
 be
  a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
 
  .02 thats all
 
  Tennesee Stud
 
_
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com
  FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
  Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jason Roysdon]

Heh, interesting.  Of course, my friend is a white oakie who likes his
country without all that new-fangled hipness (I say stuff like that to tease
him).  You know, with a banjo, and no drums!  Somehow I don't think he has
any special connections there.

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



EA Louie  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 lmao... what timing for that story to come out, just when Jason's talking
 about his buddy...

 -e-

 - Original Message -
 From: adam lee
 To:
 Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:17 PM
 Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?
 
 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
  My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months ago
  with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K contract
 with
  his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his former
  employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for the
  last 6 mos.)
 
  Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network in
15
  minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in a
 few
  clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace
 hardware).
  And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show off,
 he's
  got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop
 networks,
  but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.
 
  Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up his
  MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the CNE5
in
 3
  months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on
 experience
  as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever goes
  home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office
for
  those late nights.
 
  The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his
gross
  salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
  cablemodems).
 
  I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over with
 RH5
  one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
  proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.
Hehee.
 
  --
  Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
  List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
 
 
 
  Brian  wrote in message
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
   Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.
  
   1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will
let
   you go when the transition is complete.
  
   2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy mishmash
   network.
  
   I'll pass either way.
  
   Brian Sonic Whalen
   Success = Preparation + Opportunity
  
  
   On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
  
The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11.
 never
   up'd
to 5
Don
   
- Original Message -
From: Ronnie Poon
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
    Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
   
   
 How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.

 Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it
 happened
  to
that
  program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling
  ranks.
You
  could drop out and help us out though :).
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Tennesee Stud
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
      Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
   I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems
to
  me
now
  that
   there are so many books and training materials geared towards
 the
CCIE,
 it
   is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of
 the
right
   books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time
with
routers
  and
   switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem
 as
  difficlut
   as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion
 is
  the
 CCIE
   will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far
as
   salary
is
   concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out,
the
  CCIE
   population is growing at a faster rate (routing and
switching),
  and
even
   though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I 

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Brian]

Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.

1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will let
you go when the transition is complete.

2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy mishmash
network.

I'll pass either way.

Brian Sonic Whalen
Success = Preparation + Opportunity


On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

 The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
 I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11. never
up'd
 to 5
 Don

 - Original Message -
 From: Ronnie Poon
 To:
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
 Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


  How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
 
  Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened to
 that
   program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling ranks.
 You
   could drop out and help us out though :).
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Tennesee Stud
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
   Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me
 now
   that
there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
 CCIE,
  it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
 right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
 routers
   and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
   difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
  CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as
salary
 is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and
 even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there
 will
   be
a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
   
.02 thats all
   
Tennesee Stud
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=2648t=1882
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Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jason Roysdon]

My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months ago
with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K contract with
his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his former
employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for the
last 6 mos.)

Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network in 15
minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in a few
clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace hardware).
And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show off, he's
got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop networks,
but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.

Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up his
MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the CNE5 in 3
months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on experience
as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever goes
home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office for
those late nights.

The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his gross
salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
cablemodems).

I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over with RH5
one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.  Hehee.

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Brian  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.

 1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will let
 you go when the transition is complete.

 2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy mishmash
 network.

 I'll pass either way.

 Brian Sonic Whalen
 Success = Preparation + Opportunity


 On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
  I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11. never
 up'd
  to 5
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Ronnie Poon
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
  Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
   How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
  
   Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
  
Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened
to
  that
program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling
ranks.
  You
could drop out and help us out though :).
Don
   
- Original Message -
From: Tennesee Stud
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
   
 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to
me
  now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
  CCIE,
   it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
  right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
  routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is
the
   CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as
 salary
  is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the
CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching),
and
  even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years
there
  will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
   http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
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Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=2668t=1882
--
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groups

RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[adam lee]

Are you sure he's not Willie Brown's friend?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/04/30/MN165362.DTL

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


My friend was hired for the City/County of SF for $96K/year 3 months ago
with just his CNE.  Plus they bought out the rest of his $150K contract with
his previous employer, and paid for all the training he owned his former
employer (he'd been working exclusively for this customer anyway for the
last 6 mos.)

Granted, he knows ZEN and can image every PC on their entire network in 15
minutes and replaced 5 help-desk folks who used to do what ZEN does in a few
clicks of a button (they still kept a few screwdrivers to replace hardware).
And that's just the eye-candy stuff that his manager likes to show off, he's
got a solid years as a CNE under his belt (and not for mom-and-pop networks,
but for large enterprise clients) plus a year as an understudy before.

Of course, this guy is sharp as a TAC (pun-intended).  He'll pick up his
MCSE 2000 by the end of the year if he applies himself (he did the CNE5 in 3
months of self-study and building his own servers, plus hands-on experience
as an understudy to some of our ECNE/MCNE's).  That is, if he ever goes
home.  Heh, he even keeps a cot and a change of clothes at the office for
those late nights.

The funniest thing is that his house cost less than 10 months of his gross
salary.  But then he lives out in sticksville (but they do have
cablemodems).

I dunno, I find it kinda funny because he's the guy that came over with RH5
one day two years ago and said, Hey, you wanna install this? and we
proceeded to waste the night away and piss off both of our Wives.  Hehee.

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Brian  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Novell certification, let's look at what kind of jobs that gets you.

 1 a job at a company which is migrating from Novell to NT, and will let
 you go when the transition is complete.

 2 a job at a company that is too cheap to replace its legacy mishmash
 network.

 I'll pass either way.

 Brian Sonic Whalen
 Success = Preparation + Opportunity


 On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
  I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11. never
 up'd
  to 5
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Ronnie Poon
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
  Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
 
   How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
  
   Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
  
Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened
to
  that
program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling
ranks.
  You
could drop out and help us out though :).
Don
   
- Original Message -
From: Tennesee Stud
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
   
 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to
me
  now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
  CCIE,
   it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
  right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
  routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is
the
   CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as
 salary
  is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the
CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching),
and
  even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years
there
  will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
   http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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  Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 FAQ, list archives, and subs

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Stephen Skinner]

guys,

i agree with most things that have been said apart from this

the IE LAB this has done and will continue to strike fear into the 
hearts and minds of everyone

the current pass stats for each lab is 15%..15%that means for every 
10 students on there lab only 1.5 will passthis means that THIS cred 
will ALWAYS mean something...when my friend passed his
lab this was the end result

10 people started day 1 ...
by end of day 1 2 people left
by end of day 2 he remains.and passed

he`s not the only one.. i remember someone else saying that happened to 
them..

this is cisco`s way of protecting the ccie
i personally beleive that this is good for them aswell as us

they are aware that if the CCIE is an easy pass for wasters...then there kit 
is for wasters as well..
this is also why a well-known...to me anyway proctor has told me this

the lab is harder than it used to be . i am now strickter that  i used 
to be ...if i don`t ...my job is on the line and so is your`s

he also said

 5,000 pounds/7,000 dollars is NO-WAY near enough money to make me let you 
pass...#500,000 pounds/$650,000 and maybe we`ll talki SAID maybe..

and if you try that with anyone else they will strip you of all your 
creds...

he`s a bit of a moany old git...but heyi HAVE to like him.
...EEK



steve hold my hand mummy i`m scared skinner

:-*

From: Jim Gillen 
Reply-To: Jim Gillen 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:48:06 -0400

I would also add that there are many people with the CCIE who have done
intensive training courses and may have the qualification but not the
required experience. Those CCIE's who have a depth of experience will 
always
be in demand. After all the CCIE qualification is not easy to get, even 
with
the intensive training.

I find it difficult to understand where this is all coming from, is it the
technology stock shakeout or CISCO dumping staff I have seen this 
happen
a number of times in the last few years and technology always bounces back
(I'm not sure about the stock price levels). As far as I am concerned
getting the CCIE should not be regarded as a magic bullet to financial
bliss...if you are interested and committed to this profession then you 
will
do well no matter what.

I went to a number of business practice seminars for consultants when I was
running my own consulting business. They were very strong on the suggestion
that consultants (not just It consultants) must reinvent themselves every
two years. So I think everyone reading this should realize that,
particularly in IT, that with the rate of change as fast as it is we all
need to expect that we will need to re-evaluate our future at regular
intervals.






Cheers

Jim Gillen

Snr Communications Engineer
AUSTRAC

Ph:   9950 0842
Fax:  9950 0074



  Jason J. Roysdon  26/04/01 9:57:40 
This message has been scanned by MAILSweeper.


I can't see the certification being devalued.  Cisco is constantly making
the test harder by adding more and more relevant items and removing those
that are not.  Plus, by forcing older CCIE's to keep current with the CCIE
Written is decertifying those that don't care and keeping the numbers from
growing too fast.

And, as you say, with the need for more and more folks at this caliber is
increasing, I don't think there will be any problem with the demand keeping
up with the increased supply.  Not if the AVVID thing takes off for one 
(and
it is, at least for us).  Our local county let their top PBX staff go and 
is
looking to implement VoIP (I don't know why they cut first and didn't get
the new system in place first, but government doesn't always make sense).
The question is, of course, who will win, 3Com, Nortel, or Cisco (our shop
actually does all 3, so we don't care so long as we win the bid, hehee).

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/ccie_present.html
Just checking the current numbers, they're not up that high - 5595 Active
CCIEs  (4992 as of 11/01/2000, up 137 since 4855 CCIEs as of 06/01/2000,
which was up 156 since 03/31/2000 at 4699).  That's only 896 new CCIEs in
year.  Granted, it sounds like a lot (~75/month), but compare that to the
MCSE numbers (which I'd love to see, especially with the new Win2k stuff
out).  Especially if you figure probably a third, if not more are Cisco
employees ;-p

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Tennesee Stud  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
that
  there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, 
it
  is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
  books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Tighe Kuykendall]

Regarding the number of Microsoft certified folks out there; If you've got
the May 2001
issue of MCP Magazine, have a look at page 20.

MCP Certifications

MCP614,394
MCSE408,222
MCSD16,263
MCT23,441
MCDBA16,529
MCP+Internet262,820
MCP+Site Building1,509
MCSE+Internet14,080
No. of Certs1,357,258




Jason J. Roysdon wrote:

 I can't see the certification being devalued.  Cisco is constantly making
 the test harder by adding more and more relevant items and removing those
 that are not.  Plus, by forcing older CCIE's to keep current with the CCIE
 Written is decertifying those that don't care and keeping the numbers from
 growing too fast.

 And, as you say, with the need for more and more folks at this caliber is
 increasing, I don't think there will be any problem with the demand keeping
 up with the increased supply.  Not if the AVVID thing takes off for one
(and
 it is, at least for us).  Our local county let their top PBX staff go and
is
 looking to implement VoIP (I don't know why they cut first and didn't get
 the new system in place first, but government doesn't always make sense).
 The question is, of course, who will win, 3Com, Nortel, or Cisco (our shop
 actually does all 3, so we don't care so long as we win the bid, hehee).

 http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/ccie_present.html
 Just checking the current numbers, they're not up that high - 5595 Active
 CCIEs  (4992 as of 11/01/2000, up 137 since 4855 CCIEs as of 06/01/2000,
 which was up 156 since 03/31/2000 at 4699).  That's only 896 new CCIEs in
 year.  Granted, it sounds like a lot (~75/month), but compare that to the
 MCSE numbers (which I'd love to see, especially with the new Win2k stuff
 out).  Especially if you figure probably a third, if not more are Cisco
 employees ;-p

 --
 Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
 List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/

 Tennesee Stud  wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
 that
  there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE,
it
  is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
  books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
 and
  switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
 difficlut
  as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
CCIE
  will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
  concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
  population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
  though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
 be
  a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
 
  .02 thats all
 
  Tennesee Stud
  _
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
  FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
  Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Coleman, Jason]

Here is my .02

If you don't yet have your CCIE then how can you possibly assume that it is
or is not as difficult as most people think that it is.  I have not yet
taken the test, although I am in the process of studying for it now.  Until
I take the test I will continue to treat it with the utmost respect and
assume it will be the most difficult experience in my technical career. 

Do anything less and you are setting yourself up for failure!

-Original Message-
From:   Tennesee Stud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It
seems to me now that 
there are so many books and training materials geared
towards the CCIE, it 
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet
of the right 
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time
with routers and 
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not
seem as difficlut 
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My
opinion is the CCIE 
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far
as salary is 
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out,
the CCIE 
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and
switching), and even 
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2
years there will be 
a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

.02 thats all

Tennesee Stud

_
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RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[James Mensah]

What is your problem sir?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Tennesee Stud
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 11:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now that
there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will be
a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

.02 thats all

Tennesee Stud
_
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Donald B Johnson jr]

Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened to that
program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling ranks. You
could drop out and help us out though :).
Don



- Original Message -
From: Tennesee Stud 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
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 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Ronnie Poon]

How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.

Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

 Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened to that
 program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling ranks. You
 could drop out and help us out though :).
 Don

 - Original Message -
 From: Tennesee Stud
 To:
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
 Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

  I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
 that
  there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE,
it
  is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
  books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
 and
  switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
 difficlut
  as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
CCIE
  will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
  concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
  population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
  though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
 be
  a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
 
  .02 thats all
 
  Tennesee Stud
  _
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 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
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 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Kane, Christopher A.]

Cool post Jim. Agree with you 100%


-Original Message-
From: Jim Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


I do it because I love to learn, not for the money. The money is nice, but
if that is your only reason then you are in the wrong business. If you just
want the money there are plenty of other professions that pay more with the
same intelligence factor.

CNE, MCSE, CCIE all of these certifications are or were in high demand
and it seems like there is always something on the horizon. If the CCIE
becomes less valuable there will be something bigger and better but I won't
sit around a wait on it. How many times have you heard it is in the journey
and not the destination?

The materials are better, more people are interested, so you have more
individuals passing. Attaining the CCIE is only the beginning and if/when I
receive my number it doesn't mean the learning stops. There are probably
around 6,000 worldwide active CCIE's. If that number doubles it is still a
unique thin crowd.

Regarding difficulty you still here the stories of six went in and only one
came out. I don't think it is any easier today than it was in past. You
just have more people sitting the exam. This is evident with the backlog. I
believe approximate the same percentage are passing 14%-17%?

I look at what I thought I knew six years ago and I'm astonished where I am
today. Everyday that goes by I realize how much I don't know and that's what
drives me on.

I do it because I love it. If the market is saturated then I will have more
people to talk shop with and that ain't such a bad thing.

-Original Message-
From: Tennesee Stud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:29 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now that

there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it 
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right 
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers and

switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as difficlut 
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE 
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is 
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE 
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even 
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will be

a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

.02 thats all

Tennesee Stud
_
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FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Eric Gunn]

Hello,

The test is still much harder than any Microsoft or other Computer based 
test, along with that fact if you have the experience to back up the cert 
it will not matter. There were way to many MCSEs out there that had 
absolutely 0 hands on experience. To pass the CCIE even with help at least 
requires alot more work and hands on labs.

My 2 cents

Eric gunn



At 11:28 AM 4/25/01 -0400, you wrote:
I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now that
there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will be
a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

.02 thats all

Tennesee Stud
_
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FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: 
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Fred Danson]

The rate of new CCIE's has recently been increasing and I'm sure it will 
continue to increase. The real question here is, how fast will the demand 
for these CCIE's increase? If the demand increases faster than the supply, 
then the salary for CCIE's will also increase.

When I think about the future, I see legacy voice systems being completely 
replaced by VOIP networks. I see third world countries jumping on the 
internet bandwagon. I even see myself programming my home oven from work so 
it will be ready by the time I get home. The future will probably be 
revolved around computer networks, so getting the CCIE would be a step in 
the right direction.

Fred

From: Tennesee Stud 
Reply-To: Tennesee Stud 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:28:40 -0400

I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now 
that
there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers 
and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will 
be
a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

.02 thats all

Tennesee Stud
_
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FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: 
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Donald B Johnson jr]

The Grand dad of all certs and now it is sneared at.
I am not working on a novell network so I let that slide at 4.11. never up'd
to 5
Don

- Original Message -
From: Ronnie Poon 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.

 Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened to
that
  program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling ranks.
You
  could drop out and help us out though :).
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Tennesee Stud
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
  Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
   I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me
now
  that
   there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
CCIE,
 it
   is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
right
   books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
routers
  and
   switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
  difficlut
   as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
 CCIE
   will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary
is
   concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
   population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and
even
   though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there
will
  be
   a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
  
   .02 thats all
  
   Tennesee Stud
   _
   Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
   FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
  http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
   Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[victor delta]

For those that care to ponder such things and need a diversion from
their focus on studying:

I think what Jim Brown really meant to say was
Six went in and  five came out...only one was allowed to stay in.,
both literally and figuratively!
If that doesn't say it all, then just try to imagine being a member of
a/any prestigious group whose members number only 6000/12000 or even
18000 IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!
To all the nay sayers about the certification alone (irrespective of the
value of the learning exercise and knowledge gained), I challenge you to
go and accomplish it first, then opinions about relative current and/or
future value are respectfully solicited and appreciated.
This writer, for one, will keep on striving to attain the CCIE status
and is not to overly bothered by the increased numbers.
Are there others who possibly know as muchmore.are as
capable.more capable.smarter, better looking, more affable,
loved by all..oh almost forgot, make one hell of a lot more money!
etc. etc. etc. than certificated CCIEs, you bet.  However I would
venture to say that their numbers are at a magnitude of 100+ times less
than the former.
I have had and continue to share the privilege of membership in select
groups...as I'm certain do many of the less vocal participants of
this forum.  For those that need it said, it is well worthwhile the
effort.
I encourage my fellow colleagues and peers that are with me on the
journey, as I know from the comments in this forum they encourage me,
and I applaud and respect their success as I believe they will value
mine.
As they say.my $0.02 worth.
Now back to the studies!
VD

Jim Brown wrote:

 I do it because I love to learn, not for the money. The money is nice,
 but
 if that is your only reason then you are in the wrong business. If you
 just
 want the money there are plenty of other professions that pay more
 with the
 same intelligence factor.

 CNE, MCSE, CCIE all of these certifications are or were in high
 demand
 and it seems like there is always something on the horizon. If the
 CCIE
 becomes less valuable there will be something bigger and better but I
 won't
 sit around a wait on it. How many times have you heard it is in the
 journey
 and not the destination?

 The materials are better, more people are interested, so you have more

 individuals passing. Attaining the CCIE is only the beginning and
 if/when I
 receive my number it doesn't mean the learning stops. There are
 probably
 around 6,000 worldwide active CCIE's. If that number doubles it is
 still a
 unique thin crowd.

 Regarding difficulty you still here the stories of six went in and
 only one
 came out. I don't think it is any easier today than it was in past.
 You
 just have more people sitting the exam. This is evident with the
 backlog. I
 believe approximate the same percentage are passing 14%-17%?

 I look at what I thought I knew six years ago and I'm astonished where
 I am
 today. Everyday that goes by I realize how much I don't know and
 that's what
 drives me on.

 I do it because I love it. If the market is saturated then I will have
 more
 people to talk shop with and that ain't such a bad thing.

 -Original Message-
 From: Tennesee Stud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:29 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me
 now that

 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
 CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
 right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
 routers and

 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
 difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
 CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary
 is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and
 even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there
 will be

 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jack W. Williams]

How many MD's in the world?  A lot!  Still worth pursuing, though.


- Original Message -
From: victor delta 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 For those that care to ponder such things and need a diversion from
 their focus on studying:

 I think what Jim Brown really meant to say was
 Six went in and  five came out...only one was allowed to stay in.,
 both literally and figuratively!
 If that doesn't say it all, then just try to imagine being a member of
 a/any prestigious group whose members number only 6000/12000 or even
 18000 IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!
 To all the nay sayers about the certification alone (irrespective of the
 value of the learning exercise and knowledge gained), I challenge you to
 go and accomplish it first, then opinions about relative current and/or
 future value are respectfully solicited and appreciated.
 This writer, for one, will keep on striving to attain the CCIE status
 and is not to overly bothered by the increased numbers.
 Are there others who possibly know as muchmore.are as
 capable.more capable.smarter, better looking, more affable,
 loved by all..oh almost forgot, make one hell of a lot more money!
 etc. etc. etc. than certificated CCIEs, you bet.  However I would
 venture to say that their numbers are at a magnitude of 100+ times less
 than the former.
 I have had and continue to share the privilege of membership in select
 groups...as I'm certain do many of the less vocal participants of
 this forum.  For those that need it said, it is well worthwhile the
 effort.
 I encourage my fellow colleagues and peers that are with me on the
 journey, as I know from the comments in this forum they encourage me,
 and I applaud and respect their success as I believe they will value
 mine.
 As they say.my $0.02 worth.
 Now back to the studies!
 VD

 Jim Brown wrote:

  I do it because I love to learn, not for the money. The money is nice,
  but
  if that is your only reason then you are in the wrong business. If you
  just
  want the money there are plenty of other professions that pay more
  with the
  same intelligence factor.
 
  CNE, MCSE, CCIE all of these certifications are or were in high
  demand
  and it seems like there is always something on the horizon. If the
  CCIE
  becomes less valuable there will be something bigger and better but I
  won't
  sit around a wait on it. How many times have you heard it is in the
  journey
  and not the destination?
 
  The materials are better, more people are interested, so you have more
 
  individuals passing. Attaining the CCIE is only the beginning and
  if/when I
  receive my number it doesn't mean the learning stops. There are
  probably
  around 6,000 worldwide active CCIE's. If that number doubles it is
  still a
  unique thin crowd.
 
  Regarding difficulty you still here the stories of six went in and
  only one
  came out. I don't think it is any easier today than it was in past.
  You
  just have more people sitting the exam. This is evident with the
  backlog. I
  believe approximate the same percentage are passing 14%-17%?
 
  I look at what I thought I knew six years ago and I'm astonished where
  I am
  today. Everyday that goes by I realize how much I don't know and
  that's what
  drives me on.
 
  I do it because I love it. If the market is saturated then I will have
  more
  people to talk shop with and that ain't such a bad thing.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Tennesee Stud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 9:29 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
  I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me
  now that
 
  there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
  CCIE, it
  is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
  right
  books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
  routers and
 
  switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
  difficlut
  as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
  CCIE
  will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary
  is
  concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
  population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and
  even
  though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there
  will be
 
  a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
 
  .02 thats all
 
  Tennesee Stud
  _
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Norman Lee]

Thanks for helping keep the market in short supply.

NL

Tennesee Stud  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Donald B Johnson jr]

Yeah,
Do you think you could explain the CCIE to me I've heard so much about it,
Chris.
The Microsoft and Cisco Career certs are marketing tools for their
respective companies. The CCIE is geared more to the support side. Microsoft
could easily make a test as hard as the CCIE but they would have to give up
too much in the way information, not gonna happen, also not much revenue.
Cisco had the CCIE first and found out they could generate revenue with the
career certs just like Microsoft. Microsoft realized what a boon a good cert
program was, early on. And nah you didn't find your MCSE in a cracker jack
box, you studied for it.
Don


- Original Message -
From: Chris Haller 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]


 You have obviously never heard of, or attempted the
 Cisco CCIE Lab Exam.  I found my MCSE in a Cracker
 Jack box !!!


 --- Ronnie Poon  wrote:
  How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
 
  Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing
  when it happened to that
   program. OH well I still want to be part
  of the swelling ranks. You
   could drop out and help us out though :).
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Tennesee Stud
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
   Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
I was wondering what others thought about the
  CCIE.  It seems to me now
   that
there are so many books and training materials
  geared towards the CCIE,
  it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a
  steady diet of the right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and
  hands on time with routers
   and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it
  does not seem as
   difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see
  that).My opinion is the
  CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few
  years (As far as salary is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have
  pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate (routing
  and switching), and even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I
  think in 2 years there will
   be
a difference in the way the industry views
  CCIE's
   
.02 thats all
   
Tennesee Stud
   
 
 _
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 =
 Chris from Chicago
 MasterCNE, 5.x CNE, ICNE, 4.x CNE, CCNA, MCP

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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jason J. Roysdon]

But I would compare the CNE to the CCNP/DP, and put the ECNE/MCNE at about
half-way between that level and the CCIE.  Apples to oranges.

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Ronnie Poon  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.

 Donald B Johnson jr wrote:

  Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same thing when it happened to
that
  program. OH well I still want to be part of the swelling ranks.
You
  could drop out and help us out though :).
  Don
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Tennesee Stud
  To:
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
  Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
 
   I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me
now
  that
   there are so many books and training materials geared towards the
CCIE,
 it
   is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the
right
   books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with
routers
  and
   switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
  difficlut
   as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the
 CCIE
   will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary
is
   concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
   population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and
even
   though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there
will
  be
   a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's
  
   .02 thats all
  
   Tennesee Stud
   _
   Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
   FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jason J. Roysdon]

Has anyone heard any recent stats on pass/fail rate for the CCIE?  I believe
I've heard a few times that it was 80% fail rate the first time through.

Not that a Jedi, err, Network Engineer should think about such thinks or be
fearful, but still, I'm curious.

Speaking of, this is one of the coolest home made Star Wars fans movies
I've seen to date:
http://www.crewoftwo.com/

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Coleman, Jason  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Here is my .02

 If you don't yet have your CCIE then how can you possibly assume that it
is
 or is not as difficult as most people think that it is.  I have not yet
 taken the test, although I am in the process of studying for it now.
Until
 I take the test I will continue to treat it with the utmost respect and
 assume it will be the most difficult experience in my technical career.

 Do anything less and you are setting yourself up for failure!

 -Original Message-
 From: Tennesee Stud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:29 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It
 seems to me now that
 there are so many books and training materials geared
 towards the CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet
 of the right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time
 with routers and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not
 seem as difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My
 opinion is the CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far
 as salary is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out,
 the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and
 switching), and even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2
 years there will be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud

 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
 http://explorer.msn.com
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
 http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jason J. Roysdon]

I can't see the certification being devalued.  Cisco is constantly making
the test harder by adding more and more relevant items and removing those
that are not.  Plus, by forcing older CCIE's to keep current with the CCIE
Written is decertifying those that don't care and keeping the numbers from
growing too fast.

And, as you say, with the need for more and more folks at this caliber is
increasing, I don't think there will be any problem with the demand keeping
up with the increased supply.  Not if the AVVID thing takes off for one (and
it is, at least for us).  Our local county let their top PBX staff go and is
looking to implement VoIP (I don't know why they cut first and didn't get
the new system in place first, but government doesn't always make sense).
The question is, of course, who will win, 3Com, Nortel, or Cisco (our shop
actually does all 3, so we don't care so long as we win the bid, hehee).

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/ccie_present.html
Just checking the current numbers, they're not up that high - 5595 Active
CCIEs  (4992 as of 11/01/2000, up 137 since 4855 CCIEs as of 06/01/2000,
which was up 156 since 03/31/2000 at 4699).  That's only 896 new CCIEs in
year.  Granted, it sounds like a lot (~75/month), but compare that to the
MCSE numbers (which I'd love to see, especially with the new Win2k stuff
out).  Especially if you figure probably a third, if not more are Cisco
employees ;-p

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/



Tennesee Stud  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=1993t=1882
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Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[Jim Gillen]

I would also add that there are many people with the CCIE who have done
intensive training courses and may have the qualification but not the
required experience. Those CCIE's who have a depth of experience will always
be in demand. After all the CCIE qualification is not easy to get, even with
the intensive training.

I find it difficult to understand where this is all coming from, is it the
technology stock shakeout or CISCO dumping staff I have seen this happen
a number of times in the last few years and technology always bounces back
(I'm not sure about the stock price levels). As far as I am concerned
getting the CCIE should not be regarded as a magic bullet to financial
bliss...if you are interested and committed to this profession then you will
do well no matter what.

I went to a number of business practice seminars for consultants when I was
running my own consulting business. They were very strong on the suggestion
that consultants (not just It consultants) must reinvent themselves every
two years. So I think everyone reading this should realize that,
particularly in IT, that with the rate of change as fast as it is we all
need to expect that we will need to re-evaluate our future at regular
intervals.






Cheers

Jim Gillen

Snr Communications Engineer
AUSTRAC

Ph:   9950 0842
Fax:  9950 0074



 Jason J. Roysdon  26/04/01 9:57:40 
This message has been scanned by MAILSweeper.


I can't see the certification being devalued.  Cisco is constantly making
the test harder by adding more and more relevant items and removing those
that are not.  Plus, by forcing older CCIE's to keep current with the CCIE
Written is decertifying those that don't care and keeping the numbers from
growing too fast.

And, as you say, with the need for more and more folks at this caliber is
increasing, I don't think there will be any problem with the demand keeping
up with the increased supply.  Not if the AVVID thing takes off for one (and
it is, at least for us).  Our local county let their top PBX staff go and is
looking to implement VoIP (I don't know why they cut first and didn't get
the new system in place first, but government doesn't always make sense).
The question is, of course, who will win, 3Com, Nortel, or Cisco (our shop
actually does all 3, so we don't care so long as we win the bid, hehee).

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/ccie_present.html 
Just checking the current numbers, they're not up that high - 5595 Active
CCIEs  (4992 as of 11/01/2000, up 137 since 4855 CCIEs as of 06/01/2000,
which was up 156 since 03/31/2000 at 4699).  That's only 896 new CCIEs in
year.  Granted, it sounds like a lot (~75/month), but compare that to the
MCSE numbers (which I'd love to see, especially with the new Win2k stuff
out).  Especially if you figure probably a third, if not more are Cisco
employees ;-p

--
Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/ 



Tennesee Stud  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 I was wondering what others thought about the CCIE.  It seems to me now
that
 there are so many books and training materials geared towards the CCIE, it
 is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With a steady diet of the right
 books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and hands on time with routers
and
 switches ( which to me is the only obstacle), it does not seem as
difficlut
 as it proclaimed (and I think most people see that).My opinion is the CCIE
 will be devalued  considerably in the next few years (As far as salary is
 concerned as well as prestige)  As others have pointed out, the CCIE
 population is growing at a faster rate (routing and switching), and even
 though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I think in 2 years there will
be
 a difference in the way the industry views CCIE's

 .02 thats all

 Tennesee Stud
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com 
 FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html 
 Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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Message Posted at:

Re: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]

[CiscoSite]

Talking about the CCIE,

I have a forwarded question concerning the youngest
CCIE ... anybody could help Mr. Mike Walker, please
...

From: Walker, Michael R
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 05:03
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Web Site

I saw your Web site that had the quote:

The youngest CCIE in the world works at Global Data
Systems in Lafayette,
Louisiana and is 18 years old.

Is that Jason Lou?

--
Mike Walker
Business Systems
504-729-1170

Thanks for your kind attention and assistance ... God
bless!

With Sincerity,
Wisin
http://www.geocities.com/wisinss

--- Jason J. Roysdon  wrote:
 But I would compare the CNE to the CCNP/DP, and put
 the ECNE/MCNE at about
 half-way between that level and the CCIE.  Apples to
 oranges.
 
 --
 Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA,
 Network+, A+
 List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
 
 
 
 Ronnie Poon  wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
  How about Novell CNE. It also have a same thing.
 
  Donald B Johnson jr wrote:
 
   Yeah I got a mcse in 96 and thought the same
 thing when it happened to
 that
   program. OH well I still want to be part
 of the swelling ranks.
 You
   could drop out and help us out though :).
   Don
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Tennesee Stud
   To:
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:28 AM
   Subject: CCIE depreciation in 2 years [7:1882]
  
I was wondering what others thought about the
 CCIE.  It seems to me
 now
   that
there are so many books and training materials
 geared towards the
 CCIE,
  it
is making it easier to obtain the CCIE.  With
 a steady diet of the
 right
books ( which everyone seems to agree on) and
 hands on time with
 routers
   and
switches ( which to me is the only obstacle),
 it does not seem as
   difficlut
as it proclaimed (and I think most people see
 that).My opinion is the
  CCIE
will be devalued  considerably in the next few
 years (As far as salary
 is
concerned as well as prestige)  As others have
 pointed out, the CCIE
population is growing at a faster rate
 (routing and switching), and
 even
though the demand is high for the CCIE now, I
 think in 2 years there
 will
   be
a difference in the way the industry views
 CCIE's
   
.02 thats all
   
Tennesee Stud

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/




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