Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
So let's use your revised numbers. You said previously that Juniper might book only $500 million of revenue for the year. And I said Cisco would probably book $20 billion. OK, so that's a ratio of 40:1. Still doesn't equal the ratio of CCIE's to JNCIE's (~7500 to 65, or ~115:1). My point is that saying that Juniper is going to sell $750 million or $500 million or whatever is just re-arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic. It modifies the numbers, but doesn't change the essential analysis, which is that there seems to be a much lower supply of Juniper-trained people that more-than-compensates for the lower demand for them. Again, this is why UNIX people make more on average than Windows people, even though everybody knows there are more Windows jobs than UNIX jobs out there. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Just a couple of points: Cisco's sales on a quarterly basis bottomed last july. They have been recovering since. Last quarter they actually beat the sales from the year before. Fical year 02 which ends in july will be down 15% compared to Juniper's 02 ending in dec which will be down 40%. The enterprise market is in much better shape then the sp market. Cisco over paid badly for quite a few of their acquisitions. But they paided for them with stock when it was at a very inflated price. That makes the price they paid not nearly so bad. That they bought companies with products that they really had no place for in their product lines is another issue. What hurts with the two recent Juniper purchases is they were cash/stock transactions with Juniper's stock sitting at very near it's all time low. Juniper re-issued employee stock options last week. It will be interesting to see what effect that has from a stock point of view. As you point out they have the biggest and baddest router out there right now. The company is not going away. But from a shareholder and a job prospect point I think both are going to need patience for another year. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:35:23 -0400 By no means am I a Juniper fanatic (nor am I a Cisco fanatic). But allow me to add some points here. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was the massive build out of the telcos and the other was the fact that they had a year lead on cisco for delivering 192 interfaces. Juniper's biggest opening was indeed due to the fact that Cisco was late in delivering its 192 interfaces. But even now that Cisco has its 124xx series out, Juniper's products still enjoy key technical advantages, as detailed in Lightreading and other studies. Perhaps the key advantage is that Cisco's routers (all series) have been notorious for having its performance drop precipitously whenever you turn on a significant number of services, something that does not happen with Juniper. Other advantages include faster BGP convergence and the ability to handle huge BGP route tables, which is important if you want to implement lots of RFC2547 VPN's. Not to mention the bizarre Engine 0/1/2/4 paradigm and of course the sheer brawn of the new Juniper T640 which Cisco will not match anytime soon. That's not to say that Cisco doesn't hold some advantages of its own. For example, Cisco's CoS implementation is more flexible. Cisco has some interesting fault-tolerance features with its DPT technology that Juniper does not have. And of course Cisco enjoys the advantages of being the incumbent, so that means that people are simply more familiar with their gear (but this can be looked at the other way too, as that makes the fact that Juniper has still managed to win significant share even more impressive). In 2001 the telco's started cutting back and juniper sales growth went to up 32 %, but all of it came in the first half. Since mid year last year sales have been dropping qtr over qtr. The biggest reason is the same reason the analysts used to love it - focused only on the high end telco market. Well the telco's are in a world of trouble. They are so deep in dept that most will never climb out. Global xing bit the dust and it looks like wcom may follow. Quest is in deep trouble too. Believe it or not the only hope for a recovery in the next year is that these big guys go chapter 11 and then reorg. All the investors get screwed but their debt goes away and they may have some money to invest again. All of the major telcos cut capex for the rest of this year and next in their first quarter report. Yes it is
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
isitions like the Crescendo acquisition. As far as paying too much, well, it's not like Cisco hasn't been guilty of this as well. Let's face it, certain acquisitions just didn't work for Cisco, remember Stratacom? Others worked from a strategy standpoint, but not from a financial standpoint. Cerent and Arrowpoint had fine products, and their technologies have been useful to fill key holes in Cisco's product line. But let's face facts. Arrowpoint was not worth $5.7 billion, and Cerent was not worth $7 billion. The bottom line is that the big telcos are in real trouble and there is still a lot of competition and excess capacity out there. Their capex spending is going to be the last thing to recover and along with it Juniper. Another good indication is in the job market. Go to dice.com or hotjobs and do a search on jncie and ccie and see what you get for both. Already dealt with this point. From: Peter van Oene Reply-To: Peter van Oene To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:43:09 -0400 What leads you to believe that they will be at the tail end of the recovery? At 09:04 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, Wes Stevens wrote: Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:15:12 -0400 A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete al
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Just a couple of points: Cisco's sales on a quarterly basis bottomed last july. They have been recovering since. Last quarter they actually beat the sales from the year before. Fical year 02 which ends in july will be down 15% compared to Juniper's 02 ending in dec which will be down 40%. The enterprise market is in much better shape then the sp market. Cisco over paid badly for quite a few of their acquisitions. But they paided for them with stock when it was at a very inflated price. That makes the price they paid not nearly so bad. That they bought companies with products that they really had no place for in their product lines is another issue. What hurts with the two recent Juniper purchases is they were cash/stock transactions with Juniper's stock sitting at very near it's all time low. Juniper re-issued employee stock options last week. It will be interesting to see what effect that has from a stock point of view. As you point out they have the biggest and baddest router out there right now. The company is not going away. But from a shareholder and a job prospect point I think both are going to need patience for another year. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:35:23 -0400 By no means am I a Juniper fanatic (nor am I a Cisco fanatic). But allow me to add some points here. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was the massive build out of the telcos and the other was the fact that they had a year lead on cisco for delivering 192 interfaces. Juniper's biggest opening was indeed due to the fact that Cisco was late in delivering its 192 interfaces. But even now that Cisco has its 124xx series out, Juniper's products still enjoy key technical advantages, as detailed in Lightreading and other studies. Perhaps the key advantage is that Cisco's routers (all series) have been notorious for having its performance drop precipitously whenever you turn on a significant number of services, something that does not happen with Juniper. Other advantages include faster BGP convergence and the ability to handle huge BGP route tables, which is important if you want to implement lots of RFC2547 VPN's. Not to mention the bizarre Engine 0/1/2/4 paradigm and of course the sheer brawn of the new Juniper T640 which Cisco will not match anytime soon. That's not to say that Cisco doesn't hold some advantages of its own. For example, Cisco's CoS implementation is more flexible. Cisco has some interesting fault-tolerance features with its DPT technology that Juniper does not have. And of course Cisco enjoys the advantages of being the incumbent, so that means that people are simply more familiar with their gear (but this can be looked at the other way too, as that makes the fact that Juniper has still managed to win significant share even more impressive). In 2001 the telco's started cutting back and juniper sales growth went to up 32 %, but all of it came in the first half. Since mid year last year sales have been dropping qtr over qtr. The biggest reason is the same reason the analysts used to love it - focused only on the high end telco market. Well the telco's are in a world of trouble. They are so deep in dept that most will never climb out. Global xing bit the dust and it looks like wcom may follow. Quest is in deep trouble too. Believe it or not the only hope for a recovery in the next year is that these big guys go chapter 11 and then reorg. All the investors get screwed but their debt goes away and they may have some money to invest again. All of the major telcos cut capex for the rest of this year and next in their first quarter report. Yes it is definitely true that the service-provider market is fuc*ed up now. But that's not to say that Cisco hasn't been hurt by this as well. In fact you may recall that 5 years ago or so Cisco's strategy to unseat the telco vendor incumbents at that time - Nortel, Lucent, Alcatel, Siemens, etc. - was to back New-Economy telcos, and this super-charged Cisco's growth through the late 90's. Now of course these new telcos are mostly dead. Now I do agree completely that Juniper is being hurt proportionately more than Cisco is being hurt by the telco wasteland. But that's not to say that Cisco isn't being hurt at all. Juniper's also has to deal with cisco now as they are going after that same market and have taken share away in the last year. I disagree with this, in this way. Obviously I agree that Cisco has gained overall share for the simple reason that the whole provider subsegment is down. However, if you're talking about
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... On your point one I agree with you. Especially in a market like we have today companies with positions where they need someone at a jncie level they may not need to look too far to fill their positions. On your second point where would you get a list of the jncie's with names and addresses? Juniper for sure is not going to give them out. Most of them work for Juniper and they are not going to make it any easier then it is to steal them. Juniper is probably like cisco was in the early days. The best way to get a good engineer is to steal them from Juniper. I already answered this privately to you. I'll spare the newsgroups the details, but the short answer is contacts and back-channels. For example, clearly Juniper the company will not give out such information in a formal request. But let's just say that if you know the right people, you should be able to get this information in an unofficial capacity without much problem. And anyway, if your job is recruiting, it's your job to make sure you know the right people. As far a knowing someone that has always been a factor. Peter if you are reading this, when Juniper gets ready to open up a Latin America office I'm your man :) From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:39 -0400 My point is simply that it is extremely difficult to extrapolate overall value from demand alone. I see this mistake being made time and time again, and not just with Juniper/Cisco, but also with Windows vs. UNIX, or things like that. Besides, I would also add 2 points to the equation: #1) The problem with looking just a job boards to gauge demand. The simple fact is, most jobs are not publicly advertised. Surely you've seen the studies from CNN that have shown that 90% of all available jobs are never publicly posted, and are obtained just by knowing the right people and employee referrals.Companies seem to prefer things this way because it is a better quality-check than soliciting a mass of resumes (i.e., an employee is unlikely to refer somebody that he knows to be bad because if that guy is hired and flames out, that employee would be professionally embarrassed). How this impacts something like Juniper (or UNIX or whatever) is that it seems that the high-end jobs are more likely to not be publicly posted because it seems that the more high-end and important the job (and on average, a Juniper job tends to be higher-end than the average Cisco job), the more quality-checks you need. I believe this is why you hardly ever see public postings for positions like CEO, even though I know that many companies are looking for one. #2) The warping of small numbers. This is somewhat related to point #1. What this is all about is that when the numbers of available candidates are small, it is often inefficient to publicly post a job for them, rather a company who wants one should just individually contact each available candidate, depending on how many there really are. For example, let's say your local NFL team loses its quarterback in mid-season to a season-ending injury and decides they need a replacement to make a playoff run. Are they going to advertise it on Monster? No, of course not. The head coach knows full well that there are only a handful of available guys in the world who could reasonably step in and lead their team, and the coach probably already knows them by name and how to contact them. There's no need to publicly advertise a job when you already know who the prospective candidates are. This might apply to the JNCIE. I don't know if it does, but it might. Consider this. There are only 65 of them. Within a day or two of investigating, I could probably find out all their names and contact info, because there really aren't that many of them. So would I really need to publicly advertise my job? Maybe, maybe not. I think only when the numbers get large do the benefits of publicly posting become apparent. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... nrf, you and Peter both make good points on what is advertized on the job sites may not tell the whole Juniper job story. The supply may well be low enough that there are jobs to be found. Still I would think that there would be some jobs advertized. Even a search on Dice for just Juniper did not turn up much. A few jobs for a C++ person with Juniper skills and a few low level type jobs was all. It really does not matter for most of us as there is no way to get that cert unless you work on Juniper equipment at work. Building your own Juniper lab at home is not realistic. By the way Juniper is looking like they will come in with sales in the $540m range down almost 40
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
nrf, you and Peter both make good points on what is advertized on the job sites may not tell the whole Juniper job story. The supply may well be low enough that there are jobs to be found. Still I would think that there would be some jobs advertized. Even a search on Dice for just Juniper did not turn up much. A few jobs for a C++ person with Juniper skills and a few low level type jobs was all. It really does not matter for most of us as there is no way to get that cert unless you work on Juniper equipment at work. Building your own Juniper lab at home is not realistic. By the way Juniper is looking like they will come in with sales in the $540m range down almost 40% from last year and most analysts are saying carrier spending will not pick up until the second half of 2002. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:26:55 -0400 Inline Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was the massive build out of the telcos and the other was the fact that they had a year lead on cisco for delivering 192 interfaces. In 2001 the telco's started cutting back and juniper sales growth went to up 32 %, but all of it came in the first half. Since mid year last year sales have been dropping qtr over qtr. The biggest reason is the same reason the analysts used to love it - focused only on the high end telco market. Well the telco's are in a world of trouble. They are so deep in dept that most will never climb out. Global xing bit the dust and it looks like wcom may follow. Quest is in deep trouble too. Believe it or not the only hope for a recovery in the next year is that these big guys go chapter 11 and then reorg. All the investors get screwed but their debt goes away and they may have some money to invest again. All of the major telcos cut capex for the rest of this year and next in their first quarter report. Juniper's also has to deal with cisco now as they are going after that same market and have taken share away in the last year. This will be especially a problem in markets outside the us where cisco already has a presence and juniper does not. The last two purchases by Juniper say the reconize the problem as they are trying to broaden their product line. But they paid too much for Unishere and it will be dilutive this year. The bottom line is that the big telcos are in real trouble and there is still a lot of competition and excess capacity out there. Their capex spending is going to be the last thing to recover and along with it Juniper. Another good indication is in the job market. Go to dice.com or hotjobs and do a search on jncie and ccie and see what you get for both. Oh God, my fingers just got so itchy when you said that. I wrote an entire book about this on this newsgroup just a few months ago (and elicited a firestorm of protest for which I and many other people here still bear the scars). So if you want the entire spiel, go look for some of my old posts in the archives. And I think just heard a big whoosh from the guys who I sparred with in the past are now all collectively slapping shaking their heads because they realize I'm just about to get into it again. Fear not guys, I'll try to make it short as I possibly can, for both your and my sanity. Basically job value has to do with basic economics and how it pertains to the supply and demand of labor. True, there are many less Juniper jobs. So there is less demand On the other hand, there are many many less Juniper-trained people. You can't just look at demand. There's no such thing as a law of demand. There is only the law of supply and demand. You must factor in both supply and demand before you can say whether something is more or less valuable than something else. And from the evidence I've seen, it looks like while the demand for Juniper skills is obviously lower than the demand for Cisco skills, the supply of Juniper skills is proportionately even lower, such that the overall value of Juniper skills is higher. Or I'll put it to you another way. Doctors make more money than cashiers. But why? Clearly there is a greater demand for cashiers than doctors. You mentioned going to public places like the Internet or the newspapers and looking for mentions of JNCIE or CCIE. OK, I can do that for doctors and cashiers and I think we'll both agree that I'm going to find many many more mentions for cashiers than for doctors. Makes sense too. How many times do you seriously injure yourself vs. how many times do you buy something in the store? Right. So since there is clearly more demand for
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
My point is simply that it is extremely difficult to extrapolate overall value from demand alone. I see this mistake being made time and time again, and not just with Juniper/Cisco, but also with Windows vs. UNIX, or things like that. Besides, I would also add 2 points to the equation: #1) The problem with looking just a job boards to gauge demand. The simple fact is, most jobs are not publicly advertised. Surely you've seen the studies from CNN that have shown that 90% of all available jobs are never publicly posted, and are obtained just by knowing the right people and employee referrals.Companies seem to prefer things this way because it is a better quality-check than soliciting a mass of resumes (i.e., an employee is unlikely to refer somebody that he knows to be bad because if that guy is hired and flames out, that employee would be professionally embarrassed). How this impacts something like Juniper (or UNIX or whatever) is that it seems that the high-end jobs are more likely to not be publicly posted because it seems that the more high-end and important the job (and on average, a Juniper job tends to be higher-end than the average Cisco job), the more quality-checks you need. I believe this is why you hardly ever see public postings for positions like CEO, even though I know that many companies are looking for one. #2) The warping of small numbers. This is somewhat related to point #1. What this is all about is that when the numbers of available candidates are small, it is often inefficient to publicly post a job for them, rather a company who wants one should just individually contact each available candidate, depending on how many there really are. For example, let's say your local NFL team loses its quarterback in mid-season to a season-ending injury and decides they need a replacement to make a playoff run. Are they going to advertise it on Monster? No, of course not. The head coach knows full well that there are only a handful of available guys in the world who could reasonably step in and lead their team, and the coach probably already knows them by name and how to contact them. There's no need to publicly advertise a job when you already know who the prospective candidates are. This might apply to the JNCIE. I don't know if it does, but it might. Consider this. There are only 65 of them. Within a day or two of investigating, I could probably find out all their names and contact info, because there really aren't that many of them. So would I really need to publicly advertise my job? Maybe, maybe not. I think only when the numbers get large do the benefits of publicly posting become apparent. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... nrf, you and Peter both make good points on what is advertized on the job sites may not tell the whole Juniper job story. The supply may well be low enough that there are jobs to be found. Still I would think that there would be some jobs advertized. Even a search on Dice for just Juniper did not turn up much. A few jobs for a C++ person with Juniper skills and a few low level type jobs was all. It really does not matter for most of us as there is no way to get that cert unless you work on Juniper equipment at work. Building your own Juniper lab at home is not realistic. By the way Juniper is looking like they will come in with sales in the $540m range down almost 40% from last year and most analysts are saying carrier spending will not pick up until the second half of 2002. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:26:55 -0400 Inline Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was the massive build out of the telcos and the other was the fact that they had a year lead on cisco for delivering 192 interfaces. In 2001 the telco's started cutting back and juniper sales growth went to up 32 %, but all of it came in the first half. Since mid year last year sales have been dropping qtr over qtr. The biggest reason is the same reason the analysts used to love it - focused only on the high end telco market. Well the telco's are in a world of trouble. They are so deep in dept that most will never climb out. Global xing bit the dust and it looks like wcom may follow. Quest is in deep trouble too. Believe it or not the only hope for a recovery in the next year is that these big guys go chapter 11 and then reorg. All the investors get screwed but their debt goes away and they may have some money to invest again. All of the major telcos cut capex for the r
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
On your point one I agree with you. Especially in a market like we have today companies with positions where they need someone at a jncie level they may not need to look too far to fill their positions. On your second point where would you get a list of the jncie's with names and addresses? Juniper for sure is not going to give them out. Most of them work for Juniper and they are not going to make it any easier then it is to steal them. Juniper is probably like cisco was in the early days. The best way to get a good engineer is to steal them from Juniper. As far a knowing someone that has always been a factor. Peter if you are reading this, when Juniper gets ready to open up a Latin America office I'm your man :) From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:35:39 -0400 My point is simply that it is extremely difficult to extrapolate overall value from demand alone. I see this mistake being made time and time again, and not just with Juniper/Cisco, but also with Windows vs. UNIX, or things like that. Besides, I would also add 2 points to the equation: #1) The problem with looking just a job boards to gauge demand. The simple fact is, most jobs are not publicly advertised. Surely you've seen the studies from CNN that have shown that 90% of all available jobs are never publicly posted, and are obtained just by knowing the right people and employee referrals.Companies seem to prefer things this way because it is a better quality-check than soliciting a mass of resumes (i.e., an employee is unlikely to refer somebody that he knows to be bad because if that guy is hired and flames out, that employee would be professionally embarrassed). How this impacts something like Juniper (or UNIX or whatever) is that it seems that the high-end jobs are more likely to not be publicly posted because it seems that the more high-end and important the job (and on average, a Juniper job tends to be higher-end than the average Cisco job), the more quality-checks you need. I believe this is why you hardly ever see public postings for positions like CEO, even though I know that many companies are looking for one. #2) The warping of small numbers. This is somewhat related to point #1. What this is all about is that when the numbers of available candidates are small, it is often inefficient to publicly post a job for them, rather a company who wants one should just individually contact each available candidate, depending on how many there really are. For example, let's say your local NFL team loses its quarterback in mid-season to a season-ending injury and decides they need a replacement to make a playoff run. Are they going to advertise it on Monster? No, of course not. The head coach knows full well that there are only a handful of available guys in the world who could reasonably step in and lead their team, and the coach probably already knows them by name and how to contact them. There's no need to publicly advertise a job when you already know who the prospective candidates are. This might apply to the JNCIE. I don't know if it does, but it might. Consider this. There are only 65 of them. Within a day or two of investigating, I could probably find out all their names and contact info, because there really aren't that many of them. So would I really need to publicly advertise my job? Maybe, maybe not. I think only when the numbers get large do the benefits of publicly posting become apparent. Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... nrf, you and Peter both make good points on what is advertized on the job sites may not tell the whole Juniper job story. The supply may well be low enough that there are jobs to be found. Still I would think that there would be some jobs advertized. Even a search on Dice for just Juniper did not turn up much. A few jobs for a C++ person with Juniper skills and a few low level type jobs was all. It really does not matter for most of us as there is no way to get that cert unless you work on Juniper equipment at work. Building your own Juniper lab at home is not realistic. By the way Juniper is looking like they will come in with sales in the $540m range down almost 40% from last year and most analysts are saying carrier spending will not pick up until the second half of 2002. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 01:26:55 -0400 Inline Wes Stevens wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was t
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
What leads you to believe that they will be at the tail end of the recovery? At 09:04 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, Wes Stevens wrote: Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:15:12 -0400 A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45231t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
The JNCIE is a difficult exam, however it is quite realistic. Hence, if you use Junipers in service provider networks and are familiar typical SP configurations, you should have a decent shot at it. The written test itself was designed to be fairly challenging and to compliment the lab and I do recall it being more technically deep than the CCIE written. However, it is also much more focused on a few topics so the increased technical depth makes sense. Pete At 10:39 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, John Neiberger wrote: I've heard that the JNCIE (Juniper) cert is unbelievably difficult. I've also heard it said that both their written and lab exams are considerably more difficult than the CCIE. This may no longer be true once Cisco rolls out the final version of the new written exam, though. It looks like a bear! John - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45230t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Peter I have been following and trading Juniper stock for years. In the beginning everyone loved it because it was so focused - just high end routers. Two things came together in 2000 to help them grow sales 6x over 1999 one was the massive build out of the telcos and the other was the fact that they had a year lead on cisco for delivering 192 interfaces. In 2001 the telco's started cutting back and juniper sales growth went to up 32 %, but all of it came in the first half. Since mid year last year sales have been dropping qtr over qtr. The biggest reason is the same reason the analysts used to love it - focused only on the high end telco market. Well the telco's are in a world of trouble. They are so deep in dept that most will never climb out. Global xing bit the dust and it looks like wcom may follow. Quest is in deep trouble too. Believe it or not the only hope for a recovery in the next year is that these big guys go chapter 11 and then reorg. All the investors get screwed but their debt goes away and they may have some money to invest again. All of the major telcos cut capex for the rest of this year and next in their first quarter report. Juniper's also has to deal with cisco now as they are going after that same market and have taken share away in the last year. This will be especially a problem in markets outside the us where cisco already has a presence and juniper does not. The last two purchases by Juniper say the reconize the problem as they are trying to broaden their product line. But they paid too much for Unishere and it will be dilutive this year. The bottom line is that the big telcos are in real trouble and there is still a lot of competition and excess capacity out there. Their capex spending is going to be the last thing to recover and along with it Juniper. Another good indication is in the job market. Go to dice.com or hotjobs and do a search on jncie and ccie and see what you get for both. From: Peter van Oene Reply-To: Peter van Oene To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:43:09 -0400 What leads you to believe that they will be at the tail end of the recovery? At 09:04 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, Wes Stevens wrote: Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:15:12 -0400 A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
compared to about 7500 CCIE's. That's a ratio of 120:1. Therefore for the value of CCIE skills to be greater, the demand for CCIE skills has to greater than 120:1. Is it? Maybe, but I doubt it. Look at new installations. Cisco is in line to sell about $20 billion of gear this year, whereas Juniper will probably sell about $750 million. That's a ratio of only 27:1. Ok, true, Cisco also has a large installed base (but don't forget, Juniper also has an installed base now), so maybe I can give Cisco some credit of maybe 2X or 3X for this effect? OK, so now we're still talking 27 x 3= 81? Still haven't reached 120. And on the other hand, I think Cisco should be penalized with a negative multiplier because much of the gear it sells is low-end and used in simple networks, where quite frankly you don't need a CCIE. For example, you don't need a CCIE to configure 2 routers over a T-1. Juniper's routers are, in contrast, generally used in more complex networks (the provider) where technical skill is more critical. Furthermore, much of what Cisco sells, the average CCIE has no idea how to use. How many CCIE's are really expert in using, say, the ONS-series of ADM's and DWDM stuff? Or MGX/BPX Stratacom stuff (those old-school WAN-CCIE's excepted)? Compare that to Juniper, where they sell just one line of stuff, and the JNCIE is (or really should be) proficient in all of them. So it's really not fair to include all of Cisco's revenue and installed base for a CCIE value-analysis when much of that gear consists of boxes that the average CCIE has no idea how to use. The point is simply this. You can choose to be in a market that has lots of jobs, but also lots of competition for those jobs. Or you could be in a market with less jobs, but less competition. Which is the right choice? Difficult to say, really depends on how much less jobs and how much less competition and so forth. But surely you can see where I'm going with this. A simplistic look at demand where you just look at the number of available jobs is meaningless unless you also look at the number of people who can do those jobs. Public sites like Monster and Hotjobs tell you about demand but tell you nothing about supply. From: Peter van Oene Reply-To: Peter van Oene To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:43:09 -0400 What leads you to believe that they will be at the tail end of the recovery? At 09:04 PM 5/27/2002 -0400, Wes Stevens wrote: Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:15:12 -0400 A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Gaz wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I think that depends on the individual company. Our company currently has 6 CCIE's. I was dissuaded from going for CCIE by my company. The reason, although they haven't stated it in so many words is that they would just about double my pay from CCNP, but I would bring them very little more income. They would prefer me to go off and do something else that they can charge for, like security. I've not heard of any companies asking for CCIE security (yet). A senior engineer with security accreditations is almost as sellable to most companies and far cheaper to feed and water. For a lot of jobs, the same is true for Routing/Switching. Every job our company sends a CCIE to that could have been a Senior Engineer, they've lost a bit off their profit margin, and in the current climate where perhaps the jobs aren't rolling in quite so fast, there are obviously greater losses having CCIE's sat around on quiet days. CCIE is still the target I believe, but not everybody needs them at the moment. In 6/12 months if things pick up they may be pushing the CCIE again. I believe that Cisco's hiccup last year is the only thing that has devalued the CCIE. As Cisco gradually recovers, so will the CCIEprobably. Well, I think that's true. But on the other hand, I think the glory days of the CCIE are over. Let's face it. We just went through a massive network buildout orgy that will probably never be repeated again in out lifetime. Several positive factors went just right - the Y2K overhaul, the advent of Netscape and the accompanying introduction of the Internet to the masses, and the fears of old-school companies of getting 'Amazon-ed'. To think that these kinds of factors will come together again anytime soon is wishful thinking. So while yes, I agree that Cisco and the CCIE will probably get better, if you think we're going to have 1999 all over again, you're just deluding yourself. The world has changed, and people will simply have to admit that when it comes to the value of tech skills, Cisco's best days are in its past, and people should be looking at other skills if they want to remain on the forefront of what is considered valuable. Gaz Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45121t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
One comment inline: nrf said: So while yes, I agree that Cisco and the CCIE will probably get better, if you think we're going to have 1999 all over again, you're just deluding yourself. The world has changed, and people will simply have to admit that when it comes to the value of tech skills, Cisco's best days are in its past, and people should be looking at other skills if they want to remain on the forefront of what is considered valuable. pvo replied: I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned value. Having an employee with a CCIE designation tangibly only helps those VAR's who can achieve a higher partner status by virtue of it - and thereby receive deeper direct purchasing discounts. Of course, the nature of channel sales renders this moot in my opinion as % discounts are very often manipulated to suit the needs of the Cisco sales team. On the intangible side, it's more of a marketing play. Customers may be more likely to buy from a VAR who has more certified folks than one who doesn't. However, sales tactics, relationships and history tend to balance this. For the enterprise customer hiring for internal support, the CCIE has no particular tangible value whatsoever beyond possibly saving some dollars on the hiring end by speeding the first cut of resumes. However, this has the downside of missing good, non vendor certified candidates while at the same time short listing a group of folks who tend to look for higher compensation packages as a rule. I personally don't think there is an intangible upside to the CCIE for enterprise customers. Good engineers are good engineers. If you do the proper diligence and hire the right ones, you'll likely be satisfied. Also, given the blind faith many recruiting firms have in the CCIE designation, these enterprise customers are likely to face a higher probability of turnover in their CCIE certified staff than otherwise. I don't mean to say that the CCIE itself isn't a worthy endeavor, and indeed for the most part I feel strongly the opposite, however, I think you need to think about it in the right context. When sourcing employment, or selling in general for that matter, you need to clearly understand what tangible and intangible value you bring to the prospective customer/employer such that you can properly position yourself and justify the expenses related to bringing you onboard. With the market as tight as it is now, the focus is clearly on tangible value and those candidates who come to the table with a clear understanding of the return their employer can expect to obtain for the investment will be in a significantly better position that those who simply assume the are worth X dollars based on numbers. Pete Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45135t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. From: nrf Reply-To: nrf To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 03:08:19 -0400 Gaz wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I think that depends on the individual company. Our company currently has 6 CCIE's. I was dissuaded from going for CCIE by my company. The reason, although they haven't stated it in so many words is that they would just about double my pay from CCNP, but I would bring them very little more income. They would prefer me to go off and do something else that they can charge for, like security. I've not heard of any companies asking for CCIE security (yet). A senior engineer with security accreditations is almost as sellable to most companies and far cheaper to feed and water. For a lot of jobs, the same is true for Routing/Switching. Every job our company sends a CCIE to that could have been a Senior Engineer, they've lost a bit off their profit margin, and in the current climate where perhaps the jobs aren't rolling in quite so fast, there are obviously greater losses having CCIE's sat around on quiet days. CCIE is still the target I believe, but not everybody needs them at the moment. In 6/12 months if things pick up they may be pushing the CCIE again. I believe that Cisco's hiccup last year is the only thing that has devalued the CCIE. As Cisco gradually recovers, so will the CCIEprobably. Well, I think that's true. But on the other hand, I think the glory days of the CCIE are over. Let's face it. We just went through a massive network buildout orgy that will probably never be repeated again in out lifetime. Several positive factors went just right - the Y2K overhaul, the advent of Netscape and the accompanying introduction of the Internet to the masses, and the fears of old-school companies of getting 'Amazon-ed'. To think that these kinds of factors will come together again anytime soon is wishful thinking. So while yes, I agree that Cisco and the CCIE will probably get better, if you think we're going to have 1999 all over again, you're just deluding yourself. The world has changed, and people will simply have to admit that when it comes to the value of tech skills, Cisco's best days are in its past, and people should be looking at other skills if they want to remain on the forefront of what is considered valuable. Gaz Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45134t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45171t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 19:15:12 -0400 A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45172t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Jenny I assume you are talking about Juniper. I really don't know anything about their cert. The company I know pretty well. I would not want to be looking for a job in this market place with only Juniper experience. Juniper will not go away for sure, but they will be at the tail end of the recovery at best. Why do you say that? Juniper doesn't have Cisco's total revenue, and is consciously a niche provider. Within that niche, however, they are thoroughly challenging Cisco, and, IIRC, may have had better profit numbers recently. I haven't looked at market share recently, but it was approaching 50-50 in the carrier space, Juniper's niche. Big doesn't necessarily mean good. Now, things are much more confused in the enterprise space. There's no question that Cisco has the broadest product line there. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45192t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I've heard that the JNCIE (Juniper) cert is unbelievably difficult. I've also heard it said that both their written and lab exams are considerably more difficult than the CCIE. This may no longer be true once Cisco rolls out the final version of the new written exam, though. It looks like a bear! John - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. I'll save nrf the trouble of saying this. Highest networking cert? Arguable. Depends how you define highest. But it's certainly not a totally unreasonable claim. Only one that is not a paper cert? Hardly. Try doing a little more research. However, if you substitute Cisco for networking in your original sentence, it looks far more accurate. Cisco is not the only player, or even the only significant player, in the networking game. JMcL - Forwarded by Jenny Mcleod/NSO/CSDA on 28/05/2002 08:39 am - Wes Stevens Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/05/2002 11:40 pm Please respond to Wes Stevens To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Is this part of a business decision process?: If you look at Cisco over the last 18 months compared to it's competitors it has done well. It's sales have dropped much less then most other networking companies and they have actually gained market share in all major areas. The major telco's built out way too fast and the growth did not come like they expected. But on the enterprise side companies took it a lot slower. This economy is starting a slow recovery. Next year things will pick up. It will never be like 1999 as you say, but we will get back to the point where there will be plenty of jobs. A CCIE is still the highest networking cert and the only one that is not a paper cert. We have seen a lot more numbers comming out these days, but Cisco doubled the number of lab seats in San Jose and RTP back in March. Add to that the one day lab and Sat and Sun testing and there are a lot more people taking the test. Cisco keeps track of the passing percent and will adjust the challenge of the lab if necessary. The other thing is we probably will see major changes in the lab before the end of the year. When they get rid of token ring who knows what goodies they will replace it with. It will take a while for the boot camps to adjust their programs to the new topics and the candidates that take the self study route will be searching for ways to cover the new material. There will be a big slow down for a while at that point. I guess my point is I do not see the value of the CCIE going the way of the microsoft certs. Thing will get better next year and the demand for CCIE's will raise. [snipped] Important: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=45193t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I think that depends on the individual company. Our company currently has 6 CCIE's. I was dissuaded from going for CCIE by my company. The reason, although they haven't stated it in so many words is that they would just about double my pay from CCNP, but I would bring them very little more income. They would prefer me to go off and do something else that they can charge for, like security. I've not heard of any companies asking for CCIE security (yet). A senior engineer with security accreditations is almost as sellable to most companies and far cheaper to feed and water. For a lot of jobs, the same is true for Routing/Switching. Every job our company sends a CCIE to that could have been a Senior Engineer, they've lost a bit off their profit margin, and in the current climate where perhaps the jobs aren't rolling in quite so fast, there are obviously greater losses having CCIE's sat around on quiet days. CCIE is still the target I believe, but not everybody needs them at the moment. In 6/12 months if things pick up they may be pushing the CCIE again. I believe that Cisco's hiccup last year is the only thing that has devalued the CCIE. As Cisco gradually recovers, so will the CCIEprobably. Gaz Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40710t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I'm not trying to discourage anyone, and each company is different. The CAM told me and I'm still going to do it. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I too! Seeing something like that just makes me want to not even both with the CCIE track... I think cisco care very much about their 9000 odd CCIe's Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40315t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I still cannot believe that a CAM told you that. I know for a fact that CCIE is still coveted inside of Cisco (I just left there as an SE to start my own company 1 month ago). The Silver and Gold partnerships still require CCIE's also, which is how a CAM is paid (by partner performance)... I think that guy was blowing you smoke... Tim CCIE 9015 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steven A. Ridder Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] I'm not trying to discourage anyone, and each company is different. The CAM told me and I'm still going to do it. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I too! Seeing something like that just makes me want to not even both with the CCIE track... I think cisco care very much about their 9000 odd CCIe's Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40317t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Most companies fear IT people getting certification, because they know it makes us more marketable and more likely to leave. Lets face it most companies are extremely cost conscious. Even if you sign a agreement saying you will stay, its unenforceable. Training is a big gamble to a company. I would check and see if your company has a budget for technology training. If they do, point that out in your request. You also need to prove the training will not only benefit you, but the company. You need to prove it will make them money or save them money. --- Steven A. Ridder wrote: I'm not trying to discourage anyone, and each company is different. The CAM told me and I'm still going to do it. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I too! Seeing something like that just makes me want to not even both with the CCIE track... I think cisco care very much about their 9000 odd CCIe's [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40318t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Steven, I don't see any big change here. Gold partners still have to have 4 ccie's and silver have to have 2. What changes is the chanel manager refering too that make having ccie's less of a priority for a cisco partner? From: Steven A. Ridder Reply-To: Steven A. Ridder To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:01:18 -0500 -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com LU wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? http://www.cisco.com/warp/customer/765/partner_programs/certification/requir ements.shtml Thanks LU _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40322t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Cisco has Gold, Silver Premier levels which are earned based upon how many points you have earned. Sales Experts (sales people) are worth 2 points, CCDA/NA's are worth 4 points, CCDP/NP are worth 9, CCIE are worth 20 and dual CCIE are worth 30. Then you add specialization points, like 20 for wireless, 25 for VPN and 40 for IP Telephony. To become a Gold reseller you need at least 16 people: 4-sales, 4-CCDA/NA, 4 CCDP/NP and 4-CCIE's. Your total points must be at least 100. If a reseller has more than 4 CCIE's, they better be farmed out for money because they don't need more than that. I think in the old days you needed more CCIE's on staff. Now they cost too much and not as many are required to keep your Gold status. Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of LU Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? Thanks LU Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40326t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Does anyone know of such partners in the N. VA/DC/MD area? Gold, Silver or Premier?? And are they hiring any technical people at all?? From: Jeffrey Reed Reply-To: Jeffrey Reed To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:09:25 -0500 Cisco has Gold, Silver Premier levels which are earned based upon how many points you have earned. Sales Experts (sales people) are worth 2 points, CCDA/NA's are worth 4 points, CCDP/NP are worth 9, CCIE are worth 20 and dual CCIE are worth 30. Then you add specialization points, like 20 for wireless, 25 for VPN and 40 for IP Telephony. To become a Gold reseller you need at least 16 people: 4-sales, 4-CCDA/NA, 4 CCDP/NP and 4-CCIE's. Your total points must be at least 100. If a reseller has more than 4 CCIE's, they better be farmed out for money because they don't need more than that. I think in the old days you needed more CCIE's on staff. Now they cost too much and not as many are required to keep your Gold status. Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of LU Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? Thanks LU misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40354t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Go to Cisco main page and follow the link to find a reseller. Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. -Original Message- From: Cisco Nuts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Does anyone know of such partners in the N. VA/DC/MD area? Gold, Silver or Premier?? And are they hiring any technical people at all?? From: Jeffrey Reed Reply-To: Jeffrey Reed To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:09:25 -0500 Cisco has Gold, Silver Premier levels which are earned based upon how many points you have earned. Sales Experts (sales people) are worth 2 points, CCDA/NA's are worth 4 points, CCDP/NP are worth 9, CCIE are worth 20 and dual CCIE are worth 30. Then you add specialization points, like 20 for wireless, 25 for VPN and 40 for IP Telephony. To become a Gold reseller you need at least 16 people: 4-sales, 4-CCDA/NA, 4 CCDP/NP and 4-CCIE's. Your total points must be at least 100. If a reseller has more than 4 CCIE's, they better be farmed out for money because they don't need more than that. I think in the old days you needed more CCIE's on staff. Now they cost too much and not as many are required to keep your Gold status. Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of LU Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? Thanks LU _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com . Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40361t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Jeffrey Reed wrote: Cisco has Gold, Silver Premier levels which are earned based upon how many points you have earned. Sales Experts (sales people) are worth 2 points, CCDA/NA's are worth 4 points, CCDP/NP are worth 9, CCIE are worth 20 and dual CCIE are worth 30. Then you add specialization points, like 20 for wireless, 25 for VPN and 40 for IP Telephony. To become a Gold reseller you need at least 16 people: 4-sales, 4-CCDA/NA, 4 CCDP/NP and 4-CCIE's. Your total points must be at least 100. If a reseller has more than 4 CCIE's, they better be farmed out for money because they don't need more than that. I think in the old days you needed more CCIE's on staff. Now they cost too much and not as many are required to keep your Gold status. Well that really depends. There are 6 CCIE's within spitting distance of me and two others who have gone to the lab but get to go again. We have plenty to do though were not simply a reseller. I thought the number of CCIE's needed was also tied to revenue. dave Jeffrey Reed Classic Networking, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of LU Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? Thanks LU -- David Madland Sr. Network Engineer CCIE# 2016 Qwest Communications Int. Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 612-664-3367 Emotion should reflect reason not guide it Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40334t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Be prepared to be called a heretic and burned in effigy... :-) The four letters next to the four digits don't make the man (or woman); but the process does develop the discipline, logical thinking and technical skills that are reflected by the certification. --- Dennis - Original Message - From: Steven A. Ridder To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261] It's always a good idea to enquire if your company will help you with your career certifications/education. Whether the company will help you out in this manner is a different story, especially with the devaluation of the CCIE. I work for a company that has 16 CCIE's and they don't care one way or another if they get one more, as they're not a great asset as they once were. My company will pay for all expenses for my CCIE, but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. In the end it just depends on the company, where they are going, what kind of financial situation they are in, etc,. but it never hurts to ask. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hi Guys, Recently completed the CCNP 2.0 track, and have finally just about finished building my CCIE lab at home in preparation for my CCIE Routing and Switching.. I work for a company who doesnt have alot of Cisco gear, yet this is a cert i reay want to pursue. They gear consists of a large amount of Cisco switches, but are also bringing in the WAN inhouse (instead of the external company managing it) for me, possibly. I'm considering approcaching my IT manager before I start my CCIE explaing the cert, requirements, books ill need, wage increases, gaurenteed service to the company, time off, lab attempt(s) and written examinations..Is this something I should do? or should I be looking for a new job, or complete the cert and THEN speak to management.. Im 21 years and just need some guidance! Your help is appriecated Regards Kris Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40329t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Hi Guys, Recently completed the CCNP 2.0 track, and have finally just about finished building my CCIE lab at home in preparation for my CCIE Routing and Switching.. I work for a company who doesnt have alot of Cisco gear, yet this is a cert i reay want to pursue. They gear consists of a large amount of Cisco switches, but are also bringing in the WAN inhouse (instead of the external company managing it) for me, possibly. I'm considering approcaching my IT manager before I start my CCIE explaing the cert, requirements, books ill need, wage increases, gaurenteed service to the company, time off, lab attempt(s) and written examinations..Is this something I should do? or should I be looking for a new job, or complete the cert and THEN speak to management.. Im 21 years and just need some guidance! Your help is appriecated Regards Kris Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40261t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
It's always a good idea to enquire if your company will help you with your career certifications/education. Whether the company will help you out in this manner is a different story, especially with the devaluation of the CCIE. I work for a company that has 16 CCIE's and they don't care one way or another if they get one more, as they're not a great asset as they once were. My company will pay for all expenses for my CCIE, but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. In the end it just depends on the company, where they are going, what kind of financial situation they are in, etc,. but it never hurts to ask. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Hi Guys, Recently completed the CCNP 2.0 track, and have finally just about finished building my CCIE lab at home in preparation for my CCIE Routing and Switching.. I work for a company who doesnt have alot of Cisco gear, yet this is a cert i reay want to pursue. They gear consists of a large amount of Cisco switches, but are also bringing in the WAN inhouse (instead of the external company managing it) for me, possibly. I'm considering approcaching my IT manager before I start my CCIE explaing the cert, requirements, books ill need, wage increases, gaurenteed service to the company, time off, lab attempt(s) and written examinations..Is this something I should do? or should I be looking for a new job, or complete the cert and THEN speak to management.. Im 21 years and just need some guidance! Your help is appriecated Regards Kris Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40286t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? Thanks LU Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40287t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40288t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
-- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com LU wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... but the Cisco channel manager today told me that no one cares about CCIE's anymore, especially with the point structure Cisco has now for partnership. What is the point structure? http://www.cisco.com/warp/customer/765/partner_programs/certification/requir ements.shtml Thanks LU Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40290t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
They're not useless, but they (and I) study some arcane technologies not in use. -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com Kris Keen wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40291t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I can't beleive a Cisco CAM would make such a statement, I'd certainly like to know in what context, i.e. Cisco doesn't care? On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Kris Keen wrote: Your the 1st person I've heard say the CCIE isnt worth much anymore.. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40298t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I approach the company about my CCIE [7:40261]
I too! Seeing something like that just makes me want to not even both with the CCIE track... I think cisco care very much about their 9000 odd CCIe's Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=40301t=40261 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
