Re: Stus-List Replacing windows - repairing gelcoat

[Derek McLeod via CnC-List]

One more thing. I picked up a curved Japanese rasp that I think would have been 
great to have when I was doing the portlights. It cuts smoothly and relatively 
easily through cured epoxy and other fillers. The curved shape allows you to 
cut say just a raised epoxy filler blob without affecting the surface 
surrounding it. It's on the left on the Lee Valley page: 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=63451=1,42524

I also got a couple good carbide Dremel bits from Lee Valley that work great on 
fiberglass and epoxy. One was a ball and the other is a curved tapering cone. 

Derek McLeod 
1983 29-2 Aileron 
Toronto 
www.derekmcleod.com

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
> 
> Dennis,
>  Fortunately, most of the gel coat damage is under the plexiglas, so it 
> won't be visible once the VHB and acrylic is in place.  Since 95% of the 
> Plexus is in tact, I am considering filling the chips in the Plexus / gel 
> coat with epoxy thickened with silica and calling it a day.  I would do less 
> damage and it would be less work.  Once the windows were in place you would 
> never see it.
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> If the gelcoat damage is just chips, you might consider gelpaste.  Spectrum 
>> color makes very nice gelpaste in many custom colors.  Gelpaste fixes dings 
>> and chips very well.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, I have no clue which color works best on our boats.  They 
>> only have tinted gelpaste for newer boats, like 2006 and newer.  If it were 
>> me, I'd wander around and find a newer boat that seems close to mine and see 
>> if Spectrum Color has a gelpaste for that boat.  You can go to a paint store 
>> and get samples to compare.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Replacing windows - repairing gelcoat

[Derek McLeod via CnC-List]

I found that when I removed the plexi, there were three previous adhesives in 
place. Two were softish like silicone and there was definitely Plexus as it was 
rock hard. I hand sanded things reasonably level, and did the thickened epoxy 
to create a flatter surface. I didn't remove all the Plexus as it was very 
firmly attached to the fiberglass. My top sides were previously painted with 
Awlgrip, so I primed and painted the window flange and surrounding area so the 
surfaces were continuous and the 795 would have something decent to bond to. 
This process was the most time consuming part of the portlight project by far. 
And expensive given the numerous Awlgrip components I needed. 

Derek McLeod 
1983 29-2 Aileron 
Toronto
www.derekmcleod.com

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
> 
> Dennis,
>  Fortunately, most of the gel coat damage is under the plexiglas, so it 
> won't be visible once the VHB and acrylic is in place.  Since 95% of the 
> Plexus is in tact, I am considering filling the chips in the Plexus / gel 
> coat with epoxy thickened with silica and calling it a day.  I would do less 
> damage and it would be less work.  Once the windows were in place you would 
> never see it.
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
___

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Re: Stus-List Replacing windows - repairing gelcoat

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Dennis,
 Fortunately, most of the gel coat damage is under the plexiglas, so it
won't be visible once the VHB and acrylic is in place.  Since 95% of the
Plexus is in tact, I am considering filling the chips in the Plexus / gel
coat with epoxy thickened with silica and calling it a day.  I would do
less damage and it would be less work.  Once the windows were in place you
would never see it.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If the gelcoat damage is just chips, you might consider gelpaste.
> Spectrum color makes very nice gelpaste in many custom colors.  Gelpaste
> fixes dings and chips very well.
>
> Unfortunately, I have no clue which color works best on our boats.  They
> only have tinted gelpaste for newer boats, like 2006 and newer.  If it were
> me, I'd wander around and find a newer boat that seems close to mine and
> see if Spectrum Color has a gelpaste for that boat.  You can go to a paint
> store and get samples to compare.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
method.  See link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1999 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA



~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:

> Gary:
>
> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>
> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how
> much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the
> old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV with
> the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved
> window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>
> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
> to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Fred,
>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
> VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
> will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
> will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
> wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
>  return to a flat shape?
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
>> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
>> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
>> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>>
>> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
>> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>>
>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
>> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
>> problem for another.
>>
>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
>> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
>> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>>
>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
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> of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Rob, 
Please copy me your method off list? 

cscheaf...@comcast.net 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "robert via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "robert"  
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:51:01 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows 

Gary: 

I sent you the process I used 'off list'. 

The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how much 
but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the old 
windows out and lay them on a flat surface. I used Sika 295 UV with the Sika 
primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved window(s) in 
place. It's been 6 seasons and no problems. 

Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace them' 
while the Sika cured. I explained all of that in my 'off list' email to you. 
Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. 

Rob Abbott 
AZURA 
C 32 - 84 
Halifax, N.S. 



On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote: 



Fred, 
The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to look like and 
attractive method. I am replacing the windows over the winter, also. We should 
keep in touch. Do I assume you would use the gray VHB tape with the gray 
silicone sealant? I am wondering if the VHB tape will be a problem with peel. 
My cabin sides are curved, so the windows will have to be bent slightly to 
conform to the side of the cabin. I wonder if that will be a problem with the 
3/8" thick acrylic trying to return to a flat shape? 

Gary 

~~~ _ / ) ~~ 


On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the winter. 
I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time, I’m going to 
try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on Johanna Rose: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts . 

I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge. 

— Fred 

Fred Street -- Minneapolis 
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( 




On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> wrote: 

Hi Paul, 
I agree that 1/4" is too thin. The other 37+ at my club has 5/16" It amazes me 
that people with no marine design experience would change the design. I plan to 
go with 3/8" acrylic. But then again... 

The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less scratch 
resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic). You are probably trading one problem for 
another. 

As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn. The write-up in the Photo Album 
suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond thickness is 
large enough. To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive to make sure the 
bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030". 

Thoughts, anyone? 

Gary 
S/V High Maintenance 
'90 C 37 Plus 
East Greenwich, RI, USA 





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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I had also read of SCS2000 being used as a structural adhesive for skyscraper 
windows, and also I am pretty sure Lexan.  So, As an experiment I glued two 
pieces of Polycarbonate together  with SCS2000, let it sit for a month, and 
pulled them apart. Unfortunately, it didn’t take a whole lot of effort to do. 

Needless to say, I won’t be using that for my next window job.

 

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:07 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

 

Fred,

 The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to look 
like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the winter, also.  
We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray VHB tape with the 
gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape will be a problem with 
peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows will have to be bent slightly 
to conform to the side of the cabin.  I wonder if that will be a problem with 
the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to  return to a flat shape?

 

Gary




~~~_/)~~

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the winter.  
I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time, I’m going to 
try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on Johanna Rose: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.

 

I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

This is getting confusing.

Before I knew about the 'structural' aspect of the windows of my 1995 C XL, a 
local yard replaced them with what looks like acrylic at least
partially held in place with screws, the heads of which I can see on the 
outside of the windows. This was about 10-12 years ago. 

They have started leaking seriously again and are badly 'crazed' now by the sun 
in NC. My lexan companion way hatch and sliding cover 
look like new and were replaced at about the same time. Thus I am thinking 
lexan for the window material when I do replace them.

I plan to have the windows replaced this spring and my yard is very capable of 
doing what needs to be done. 

Apparently some list members replace their windows with plexus (an incredibly 
tough but inflexible 2-part adhesive that I have used before on hatch handles) 
which I thought was the gold standard for our windows.

OTOH, per these email comments, some use a more flexible product like Sika.

Maybe both solutions work well and apparently since we are dealing with boats, 
neither of them are truly permanent.

My dilemma is which way to go--plexus super tough adhesive or Sika which 
appears to be more flexible, assuming one is preferred.

Of course, it could be that either will work and last about the same amount of 
time--suggestions or recommendations from the list?

Thanks,
'
Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom

cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Paul Fountain via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Paul Fountain <p...@seasource.ca>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2015 8:45 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows



When the second windows were installed, they used Sika 295 and primer also, 
then a Sika caulk around the windows looks great. – Kim was an artist with how 
well he matched the gel coat where he did repairs …..
 

Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 8:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca>
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

 
I don't know what choices in adhesives C had to choose from in 1984 when my 
boat was built, nevertheless, the one used was Plexus, which harden like resin 
and was the cause of my windows leaking.

 The windshield on my car is part of the vehicle's 'structural integrity' and 
it is held in place by a Sikaflex productI used Sika 295 UV when I replaced 
my windows about 7 years ago.I had my car windshield replaced about 2 years 
ago and I asked the guys doing it what was the adhesive they were 
using.they told me it was  Sika with a Sika primer and probably the only 
difference in the two products was the 'curing time'.  The windshield guy said 
that they can't use a product with a 24 hour cure time.the Sika product 
they used has a cure time of approx. 2 hours.  I understand the logistics of 
the shorter cure time for the car windshield.

Seven years with the Sika 295 and no issues to date.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-10-21 9:08 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:




I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put them in with 
LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in with silicone.  The ports 
are around 4 feet long but the opening does have a post in the middle for 
strength.

I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a more flexible 
adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be structural and that stiff 
adhesives are conventional wisdom but is it absolutely necessary?  I guess 
without a structural engineer revisiting any calculations that Rob Ball did, we 
may never know.

Just idle curiosity.

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


We have done the windows twice – first time the contractor used ¼” – lots of 
issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates, and 
they are 3/8” and have done much better – had a lot of repair work around the 
windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make our own 
templates.
 
Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
 

I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance 
(1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original) and 
are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in some 
places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" or 3/8"?

 

Thank

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[robert via CnC-List]

Charlie:

  I made the decision to use an adhesive (Sika) that will 'flex' as I 
am sure the cabin top does on my boat (probably my car does as well.)


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-10-21 10:38 AM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:

This is getting confusing.
Before I knew about the 'structural' aspect of the windows of my 1995 
C XL, a local yard replaced them with what looks like acrylic at least
partially held in place with screws, the heads of which I can see on 
the outside of the windows. This was about 10-12 years ago.
They have started leaking seriously again and are badly 'crazed' now 
by the sun in NC. My lexan companion way hatch and sliding cover
look like new and were replaced at about the same time. Thus I am 
thinking lexan for the window material when I do replace them.
I plan to have the windows replaced this spring and my yard is very 
capable of doing what needs to be done.
Apparently some list members replace their windows with plexus (an 
incredibly tough but inflexible 2-part adhesive that I have used 
before on hatch handles)

which I thought was the gold standard for our windows.
OTOH, per these email comments, some use a more flexible product like 
Sika.
Maybe both solutions work well and apparently since we are dealing 
with boats, neither of them are truly permanent.
My dilemma is which way to go--plexus super tough adhesive or Sika 
which appears to be more flexible, assuming one is preferred.
Of course, it could be that either will work and last about the same 
amount of time--suggestions or recommendations from the list?

Thanks,
'
Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom
cenel...@aol.com


-Original Message-
From: Paul Fountain via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Paul Fountain <p...@seasource.ca>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2015 8:45 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

When the second windows were installed, they used Sika 295 and primer 
also, then a Sika caulk around the windows looks great. – Kim was an 
artist with how well he matched the gel coat where he did repairs …..

*/Paul Fountain/*
/Managing Director/
*/SeaSource Inc./*
/Bookkeeping & IT Services./
*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com?>] *On Behalf Of *robert via 
CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 8:40 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca <mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>>
*Subject:* Stus-List Replacing Windows
I don't know what choices in adhesives C had to choose from in 1984 
when my boat was built, nevertheless, the one used was Plexus, which 
harden like resin and was the cause of my windows leaking.


 The windshield on my car is part of the vehicle's 'structural 
integrity' and it is held in place by a Sikaflex productI used 
Sika 295 UV when I replaced my windows about 7 years ago.I had my 
car windshield replaced about 2 years ago and I asked the guys doing 
it what was the adhesive they were using.they told me it was  Sika 
with a Sika primer and probably the only difference in the two 
products was the 'curing time'. The windshield guy said that they 
can't use a product with a 24 hour cure time.the Sika product they 
used has a cure time of approx. 2 hours.  I understand the logistics 
of the shorter cure time for the car windshield.


Seven years with the Sika 295 and no issues to date.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.
On 2015-10-21 9:08 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put
them in with LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in
with silicone.  The ports are around 4 feet long but the opening
does have a post in the middle for strength.
I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a
more flexible adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be
structural and that stiff adhesives are conventional wisdom but is
it absolutely necessary?  I guess without a structural engineer
revisiting any calculations that Rob Ball did, we may never know.
Just idle curiosity.
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

We have done the windows twice – first time the contractor
used ¼” – lots of issues, then had South Shore make a new set
from the original templates, and they are 3/8” and have done
much better – had a lot of repair work around the windows as a
result of the first contractor, so could not make our own
templates.
*/Paul Fountain/*
/Managing Director/
*/SeaSource Inc./*
/Bookkeeping & IT Services./
*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
 

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Gary,

I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic should 
be more like 3/8”.  

Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?

I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon 
(abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.  

I have pictures and a discussion of the process at: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts

Paul

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:16:09 -0400
> From: Gary Russell >
> To: "C List" >
> Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
> Message-ID:
>    >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance
> (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original)
> and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in
> some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4"
> or 3/8"?
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary
> s/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Derek McLeod via CnC-List]

I used 3/8" acrylic when I did the fixed port lights on my 1983 29-2 this 
spring. I adhered them in place with black Dow 795. The 3/8" thickness sits 
proud of the cabin side by ~1/8". I used a router to make a 1/8" chamfer all 
around the edge (before installing) and then polished it with wet sandpaper. 

I used the same 3/8" acrylic to replace the Lewmar hatch acrylic (also used Dow 
795) and companionway panels, making use of most of a 4'x8' sheet. 

Derek McLeod 
1983 29-2, Aileron 
Toronto

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, Dennis C.  wrote:
> 
> I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put them in with 
> LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in with silicone.  The ports 
> are around 4 feet long but the opening does have a post in the middle for 
> strength.
> 
> I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a more 
> flexible adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be structural and that 
> stiff adhesives are conventional wisdom but is it absolutely necessary?  I 
> guess without a structural engineer revisiting any calculations that Rob Ball 
> did, we may never know.
> 
> Just idle curiosity.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> We have done the windows twice – first time the contractor used ¼” – lots of 
>> issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates, and 
>> they are 3/8” and have done much better – had a lot of repair work around 
>> the windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make our own 
>> templates.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul Fountain
>> 
>> Managing Director
>> 
>> SeaSource Inc.
>> 
>> Bookkeeping & IT Services.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
>> Russell via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
>> To: C List 
>> Cc: Gary Russell 
>> Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance 
>> (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original) 
>> and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in 
>> some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" 
>> or 3/8"?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Gary
>> 
>> s/V High Maintenance
>> 
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> 
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

I once worked as a supervisor in the area where windshields were installed in 
an automotive assembly plant. At that time the adhesives used were all moisture 
cured polyurethane type adhesives, and so far as I know they still are. Proper 
primer and application procedure was critical to getting the stuff to stick to 
the glass, and was also a legal requirement for the painted metal, but the 
degree of adhesion to un-primed paint surfaces depended enormously on the paint 
chemistry. In 1996 the paint chemistry was changed. Prior to that time, an 
accidental glob of adhesive on the paint was easy to peel off once cured, and 
did not damage the paint at all. It didn't stick well at all. After the paint 
chemistry change, the adhesive would stick like a barnacle, and any that got on 
a painted surface had to be removed immediately to prevent damage. The point to 
this story is that Sika 295 sounds like the same class of adhesive, and if it 
is, then the chemical makeup of the surfaces to be bonded matters a lot. I 
haven't used that brand, but if it specifies a particular primer or surface 
preparation, then I would follow the instructions to the letter. 

Steve Thomas
  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Cc: Paul Fountain 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 08:44
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows


  When the second windows were installed, they used Sika 295 and primer also, 
then a Sika caulk around the windows looks great. - Kim was an artist with how 
well he matched the gel coat where he did repairs ...

   

  Paul Fountain

  Managing Director

  SeaSource Inc.

  Bookkeeping & IT Services.

   

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 8:40 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca>
  Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

   

  I don't know what choices in adhesives C had to choose from in 1984 when my 
boat was built, nevertheless, the one used was Plexus, which harden like resin 
and was the cause of my windows leaking.

   The windshield on my car is part of the vehicle's 'structural integrity' and 
it is held in place by a Sikaflex productI used Sika 295 UV when I replaced 
my windows about 7 years ago.I had my car windshield replaced about 2 years 
ago and I asked the guys doing it what was the adhesive they were 
using.they told me it was  Sika with a Sika primer and probably the only 
difference in the two products was the 'curing time'.  The windshield guy said 
that they can't use a product with a 24 hour cure time.the Sika product 
they used has a cure time of approx. 2 hours.  I understand the logistics of 
the shorter cure time for the car windshield.

  Seven years with the Sika 295 and no issues to date.

  Rob Abbott
  AZURA
  C 32 - 84
  Halifax, N.S.

  On 2015-10-21 9:08 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put them in 
with LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in with silicone.  The 
ports are around 4 feet long but the opening does have a post in the middle for 
strength.

I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a more 
flexible adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be structural and that 
stiff adhesives are conventional wisdom but is it absolutely necessary?  I 
guess without a structural engineer revisiting any calculations that Rob Ball 
did, we may never know.

Just idle curiosity.

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

  We have done the windows twice - first time the contractor used ¼" - lots 
of issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates, and 
they are 3/8" and have done much better - had a lot of repair work around the 
windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make our own 
templates.

   

  Paul Fountain

  Managing Director

  SeaSource Inc.

  Bookkeeping & IT Services.

   

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
Russell via CnC-List
  Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
  To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
  Cc: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
  Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

   

  I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High 
Maintenance (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not 
original) and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've 
seen in some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 
1/4" or 3/8"?

   

  Thanks,

  Gary

  s/V High M

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the winter.  
I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time, I’m going to 
try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on Johanna Rose: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.

I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"  It 
> amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the 
> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
> 
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less 
> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one 
> problem for another.
> 
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the Photo 
> Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond 
> thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive 
> to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
> 
>  Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Paul,
 I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"  It
amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...

The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
problem for another.

 As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".

 Thoughts, anyone?

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List  wrote:

> Gary,
>
> I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic
> should be more like 3/8”.
>
> Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?
>
> I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon
> (abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.
>
> I have pictures and a discussion of the process at:
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts
>
> Paul
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:16:09 -0400
> From: Gary Russell 
> To: "C List" 
> Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance
> (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original)
> and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in
> some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4"
> or 3/8"?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
> s/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I have owned my LF 38 for over 30 years now.  I have done the Plexus repair 
twice--so, I have been through 3 sets of windows (if you include the originals) 
within probably the first 20 years.  Because of my frustration with Plexus, I 
designed and built stainless steel frames for my boat, using 3/8-inch thick 
cast acrylic, and a flexible GE sealant, and they have lasted about 10 years 
without any leakage whatsoever.  I did not try SIKA but I know it is a good 
product (have used it elsewhere) and I expect that it would work fine too.  I 
think the Plexus is simply too rigid for a flexing boat like our C's--I would 
like to see how anyone can get any flexibility out of it.  (Perhaps each of our 
boats have different flexibilities--so, I am speaking of my LF38).

I agree that Lexan would scratch easier than polycarbonate.  

I read Don Casey's article and I have to wonder if he really knows what he is 
doing...or if he is talking about smaller windows in other boats.

Bob 


On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"  It 
> amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the 
> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
> 
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less 
> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one 
> problem for another.
> 
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the Photo 
> Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond 
> thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive 
> to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
> 
>  Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> Gary,
> 
> I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic 
> should be more like 3/8”.  
> 
> Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?
> 
> I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon 
> (abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.  
> 
> I have pictures and a discussion of the process at: 
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts
> 
> Paul
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
> 
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:16:09 -0400
>> From: Gary Russell 
>> To: "C List" 
>> Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance
>> (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original)
>> and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in
>> some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4"
>> or 3/8"?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Gary
>> s/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyr...@icloud.com
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[David via CnC-List]

Funny story about re-bedding windows and may shed a bit of light  on adhesive 
choices.

Bought the bought in East Greenwich, RI.   Soon after the purchase I stopped in 
on the way to the airport to pat the New Love on her behind.   For whatever 
reason in the process I popped out a window!   Holy Shite.  I am in a suit.  I 
have a flight and the damned window popped out!   Run up to Brewers store and 
ask for an adhesive.  They gave me Life-Seal.   No questions asked I head back 
to the boat and plunk the window back in without too much fuss or mess.   Don't 
know how I did it under pressure whilst nattily dressed and making my flight 
but I did.  

Damned thing hasn't leaked since that spring of 2005.

So when I re-bed my new ports...guess what I am using.

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 -0400
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: dainyr...@icloud.com

I have owned my LF 38 for over 30 years now.  I have done the Plexus repair 
twice--so, I have been through 3 sets of windows (if you include the originals) 
within probably the first 20 years.  Because of my frustration with Plexus, I 
designed and built stainless steel frames for my boat, using 3/8-inch thick 
cast acrylic, and a flexible GE sealant, and they have lasted about 10 years 
without any leakage whatsoever.  I did not try SIKA but I know it is a good 
product (have used it elsewhere) and I expect that it would work fine too.  I 
think the Plexus is simply too rigid for a flexing boat like our C's--I would 
like to see how anyone can get any flexibility out of it.  (Perhaps each of our 
boats have different flexibilities--so, I am speaking of my LF38).
I agree that Lexan would scratch easier than polycarbonate.  
I read Don Casey's article and I have to wonder if he really knows what he is 
doing...or if he is talking about smaller windows in other boats.
Bob 


On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:Hi Paul, I 
agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"  It amazes me 
that people with no marine design experience would change the design.  I plan 
to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less 
scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one 
problem for another.
 As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the Photo 
Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond 
thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive to 
make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
 Thoughts, anyone?
GaryS/V High Maintenance'90 C 37 PlusEast Greenwich, RI, USA~~~_/)~~



On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:
Gary,
I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic should 
be more like 3/8”.  
Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?
I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon 
(abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.  
I have pictures and a discussion of the process at: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts
Paul

-
Paul E.1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:16:09 -0400From: Gary Russell 
<captnga...@gmail.com>To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>Subject: Stus-List 
Replacing WindowsMessage-ID: 
<cabgkxplqhqnkcdzd0eqskekj9xbe5_g9zo1zwv128v9sdqq...@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type:
 text/plain; charset="utf-8"I am starting the process of replacing the side 
windows on High Maintenance(1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced 
before (not original)and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right 
thickness?  I've seen insome places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the 
original windows 1/4"or 3/8"?Thanks,Garys/V High Maintenance'90 C 37 PlusEast 
Greenwich, RI, USA

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Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
email: dainyrays@icloud.comblog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats." --Kenneth Grahame



___

E

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[svpegasus38]

I am replacing my windows on Pegasus using 3/8 plexiglass, VHB (4991) tape, 
Dow 795 sealant. I have done the Sikaflex route didn't work. Lasted 4 years. A 
friend used the tape method 20 years ago still no leaks. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Date: Wed, 
Oct 21, 2015 11:04To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Frederick G Street;Subject:Re: 
Stus-List Replacing Windows
Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the winter.  
I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time, I’m going to 
try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on Johanna Rose: 
http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:
Hi Paul,     I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16" 
 It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the 
design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
    The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less 
scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one 
problem for another.
     As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the Photo 
Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond 
thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive to 
make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
     Thoughts, anyone?
GaryS/V High Maintenance'90 C 37 PlusEast Greenwich, RI, USA


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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Fred,
 The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to look
like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the winter,
also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray VHB
tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape will
be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows will
have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I wonder if
that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to  return to a
flat shape?

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>
> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
> problem for another.
>
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>
>  Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Guess I was kinda hinting why people don't use LifeSeal to install the
newer ports.  :)

Glad to see it works.

Dennis C.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:16 PM, David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Funny story about re-bedding windows and may shed a bit of light  on
> adhesive choices.
>
> Bought the bought in East Greenwich, RI.   Soon after the purchase I
> stopped in on the way to the airport to pat the New Love on her behind.
> For whatever reason in the process I popped out a window!   Holy Shite.  I
> am in a suit.  I have a flight and the damned window popped out!   Run up
> to Brewers store and ask for an adhesive.  They gave me Life-Seal.   No
> questions asked I head back to the boat and plunk the window back in
> without too much fuss or mess.   Don't know how I did it under pressure
> whilst nattily dressed and making my flight but I did.
>
> Damned thing hasn't leaked since that spring of 2005.
>
> So when I re-bed my new ports...guess what I am using.
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 -0400
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: dainyr...@icloud.com
>
>
> I have owned my LF 38 for over 30 years now.  I have done the Plexus
> repair twice--so, I have been through 3 sets of windows (if you include the
> originals) within probably the first 20 years.  Because of my frustration
> with Plexus, I designed and built stainless steel frames for my boat, using
> 3/8-inch thick cast acrylic, and a flexible GE sealant, and they have
> lasted about 10 years without any leakage whatsoever.  I did not try SIKA
> but I know it is a good product (have used it elsewhere) and I expect that
> it would work fine too.  I think the Plexus is simply too rigid for a
> flexing boat like our C's--I would like to see how anyone can get any
> flexibility out of it.  (Perhaps each of our boats have different
> flexibilities--so, I am speaking of my LF38).
>
> I agree that Lexan would scratch easier than polycarbonate.
>
> I read Don Casey's article and I have to wonder if he really knows what he
> is doing...or if he is talking about smaller windows in other boats.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
> problem for another.
>
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>
>  Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic
> should be more like 3/8”.
>
> Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?
>
> I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon
> (abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.
>
> I have pictures and a discussion of the process at:
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts
>
> Paul
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:08 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:16:09 -0400
> From: Gary Russell <captnga...@gmail.com>
> To: "C List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows
> Message-ID:
> <cabgkxplqhqnkcdzd0eqskekj9xbe5_g9zo1zwv128v9sdqq...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance
> (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original)
> and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in
> some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4"
> or 3/8"?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
> s/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Gr

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Charles Nelson via CnC-List]

Life seal has sealed up some of my hardware admirably. 

OTOH, I find it impossible to keep the it off of stuff I don't want sealed and 
a PITA to clean up. 

Maybe I just need to suffer its failings and appreciate its advantages.

Charlie Nelson

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 8:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Guess I was kinda hinting why people don't use LifeSeal to install the newer 
> ports.  :)
> 
> Glad to see it works.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:16 PM, David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
>> wrote:
>> Funny story about re-bedding windows and may shed a bit of light  on 
>> adhesive choices.
>> 
>> Bought the bought in East Greenwich, RI.   Soon after the purchase I stopped 
>> in on the way to the airport to pat the New Love on her behind.   For 
>> whatever reason in the process I popped out a window!   Holy Shite.  I am in 
>> a suit.  I have a flight and the damned window popped out!   Run up to 
>> Brewers store and ask for an adhesive.  They gave me Life-Seal.   No 
>> questions asked I head back to the boat and plunk the window back in without 
>> too much fuss or mess.   Don't know how I did it under pressure whilst 
>> nattily dressed and making my flight but I did.  
>> 
>> Damned thing hasn't leaked since that spring of 2005.
>> 
>> So when I re-bed my new ports...guess what I am using.
>> 
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>> 
>> 
>> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:20:45 -0400
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> CC: dainyr...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> I have owned my LF 38 for over 30 years now.  I have done the Plexus repair 
>> twice--so, I have been through 3 sets of windows (if you include the 
>> originals) within probably the first 20 years.  Because of my frustration 
>> with Plexus, I designed and built stainless steel frames for my boat, using 
>> 3/8-inch thick cast acrylic, and a flexible GE sealant, and they have lasted 
>> about 10 years without any leakage whatsoever.  I did not try SIKA but I 
>> know it is a good product (have used it elsewhere) and I expect that it 
>> would work fine too.  I think the Plexus is simply too rigid for a flexing 
>> boat like our C's--I would like to see how anyone can get any flexibility 
>> out of it.  (Perhaps each of our boats have different flexibilities--so, I 
>> am speaking of my LF38).
>> 
>> I agree that Lexan would scratch easier than polycarbonate.  
>> 
>> I read Don Casey's article and I have to wonder if he really knows what he 
>> is doing...or if he is talking about smaller windows in other boats.
>> 
>> Bob 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Paul,
>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"  It 
>> amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the 
>> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>> 
>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less 
>> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one 
>> problem for another.
>> 
>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the 
>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the bond 
>> thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the adhesive 
>> to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>> 
>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>> 
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List 
>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>> Gary,
>> 
>> I am surprised that you have 1/4” acrylic.  To have the strength acrylic 
>> should be more like 3/8”.  
>> 
>> Are you sure you don’t have 1/4” polycarbonate?
>> 
>> I recently replaced all of the fixed ports on my LF38 using 1/4” Makrolon 
>> (abrasion & UV resistance polycarbonate), 3M VHB tape, and Dow 795.  
>> 
>> I have pictures and a discussion of the process at: 
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> -
>> Paul E.
>> 1981 C 38 Landfall 
>> S/V Johanna Rose
>> Carrabelle, FL
>> 
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>> 
>> On Oct 2

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

We have done the windows twice – first time the contractor used ¼” – lots of 
issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates, and 
they are 3/8” and have done much better – had a lot of repair work around the 
windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make our own 
templates.

Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance 
(1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original) and 
are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in some 
places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" or 3/8"?

Thanks,
Gary
s/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put them in
with LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in with silicone.  The
ports are around 4 feet long but the opening does have a post in the middle
for strength.

I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a more
flexible adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be structural and
that stiff adhesives are conventional wisdom but is it absolutely
necessary?  I guess without a structural engineer revisiting any
calculations that Rob Ball did, we may never know.

Just idle curiosity.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We have done the windows twice – first time the contractor used ¼” – lots
> of issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates,
> and they are 3/8” and have done much better – had a lot of repair work
> around the windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make
> our own templates.
>
>
>
> *Paul Fountain*
>
> *Managing Director*
>
> *SeaSource Inc.*
>
> *Bookkeeping & IT Services.*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
> Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Gary Russell 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Replacing Windows
>
>
>
> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High
> Maintenance (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not
> original) and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?
> I've seen in some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original
> windows 1/4" or 3/8"?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
>
> s/V High Maintenance
>
> '90 C 37 Plus
>
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

When the second windows were installed, they used Sika 295 and primer also, 
then a Sika caulk around the windows looks great. - Kim was an artist with how 
well he matched the gel coat where he did repairs .

Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 8:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert 
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

I don't know what choices in adhesives C had to choose from in 1984 when my 
boat was built, nevertheless, the one used was Plexus, which harden like resin 
and was the cause of my windows leaking.

 The windshield on my car is part of the vehicle's 'structural integrity' and 
it is held in place by a Sikaflex productI used Sika 295 UV when I replaced 
my windows about 7 years ago.I had my car windshield replaced about 2 years 
ago and I asked the guys doing it what was the adhesive they were 
using.they told me it was  Sika with a Sika primer and probably the only 
difference in the two products was the 'curing time'.  The windshield guy said 
that they can't use a product with a 24 hour cure time.the Sika product 
they used has a cure time of approx. 2 hours.  I understand the logistics of 
the shorter cure time for the car windshield.

Seven years with the Sika 295 and no issues to date.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.
On 2015-10-21 9:08 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
I just replaced the glued in ports on a small 26 footer.  I put them in with 
LifeSeal.  The manufacturer currently puts them in with silicone.  The ports 
are around 4 feet long but the opening does have a post in the middle for 
strength.
I can't help but wonder why not put the newer C ports in with a more flexible 
adhesive?  I understand they are supposed to be structural and that stiff 
adhesives are conventional wisdom but is it absolutely necessary?  I guess 
without a structural engineer revisiting any calculations that Rob Ball did, we 
may never know.
Just idle curiosity.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
> wrote:
We have done the windows twice - first time the contractor used ¼" - lots of 
issues, then had South Shore make a new set from the original templates, and 
they are 3/8" and have done much better - had a lot of repair work around the 
windows as a result of the first contractor, so could not make our own 
templates.

Paul Fountain
Managing Director
SeaSource Inc.
Bookkeeping & IT Services.

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Gary Russell via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 9:16 PM
To: C List >
Cc: Gary Russell >
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance 
(1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original) and 
are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in some 
places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" or 3/8"?

Thanks,
Gary
s/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Gary,

 

Mine are 3/8” thick and are flush with the sides of the cabin.¼” sounds a 
bit skinny, especially for offshore work.  Are yours recessed into the cabin?

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 21:16
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

 

I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High Maintenance 
(1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not original) and 
are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?  I've seen in some 
places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" or 3/8"?

 

Thanks,

Gary

s/V High Maintenance

'90 C 37 Plus

East Greenwich, RI, USA

 

~~~_/)~~

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[robert via CnC-List]

Gary:

Could be the windows earlier replaced were 1/4" and should have been 
3/8'..that might explain the 1/8" indentation.


I replaced my 4 side cabin windows, 3/8" acrylic flush to the cabin 
sides, about 7 years agoI can take you through my process of doing 
it if you wish.I won't subject the list to it again.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2015-10-20 10:43 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:

Jake,
 There is a slight indentation where they sit, but they are by no 
means flush.  The angled indentation might be 1/8" deep.


Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Gary,

Mine are 3/8” thick and are flush with the sides of the cabin.
   ¼” sounds a bit skinny, especially for offshore work.  Are
yours recessed into the cabin?

Jake

*Jake Brodersen*

*C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”*

*Hampton VA*

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
] *On Behalf Of *Gary
Russell via CnC-List
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2015 21:16
*To:* C List
*Cc:* Gary Russell
*Subject:* Stus-List Replacing Windows

I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High
Maintenance (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced
before (not original) and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the
right thickness? I've seen in some places references to 3/8"
windows.  So were the original windows 1/4" or 3/8"?

Thanks,

Gary

s/V High Maintenance

'90 C 37 Plus

East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


___

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Jake,
 There is a slight indentation where they sit, but they are by no means
flush.  The angled indentation might be 1/8" deep.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary,
>
>
>
> Mine are 3/8” thick and are flush with the sides of the cabin.¼”
> sounds a bit skinny, especially for offshore work.  Are yours recessed into
> the cabin?
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *Jake Brodersen*
>
> *C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”*
>
> *Hampton VA*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary
> Russell via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2015 21:16
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Gary Russell
> *Subject:* Stus-List Replacing Windows
>
>
>
> I am starting the process of replacing the side windows on High
> Maintenance (1990 C 37 Plus).  The windows have been replaced before (not
> original) and are currently 1/4" acrylic.  Is that the right thickness?
> I've seen in some places references to 3/8" windows.  So were the original
> windows 1/4" or 3/8"?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
>
> s/V High Maintenance
>
> '90 C 37 Plus
>
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Blair Clark]

Hi There,
 
I recently replaced all windows in a cc 30. I can not stress the increased 
ease and increase in professional look by using 1/8th inch glazing tape to 
border the inside edge of the window. Using this will permit two things to 
occur. First the inside edge as viewed from inside the boat will be smooth and 
a fine edge and secondly when applying the sealing adhesive to the outside edge 
will ensure that you have an adequate spacer and that you do not compress the 
window too tightly against the side edge of the frame which will ensure more 
sealing properties. 

Blair Clark CC MK II 30  



Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 09:23:55 -0300
From: robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: secondwind...@comcast.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows


Paul:

I posted this earlier on the list.trusting it will help

Bob Abbott AZURA
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax. N.S.


Our 1984 - 32 had original side cabin windows that leaked.no matter 
what I tried to stop the leaks, it didn't work. The last straw was when 
we put new upholstery on the boat in 2009I couldn't put up with 
leaks any more.

So in the Spring 2010, while the boat was still under the white 
shrinkwrap cover, the decision was made to install new windows.  I first 
asked some of the contractors around the boatyard what they would charge 
to do the job.most said they wouldn't do it because the windows 
don't have frames and/or screws.two problems for the 
contractorswithout frames and/or screws, the job is more time 
consuming and hard to provide an estimate of time, and second, without 
frames and/or screws, they can't guarantee the windows will stay in 
place.  I must warn you, this is a time consuming job.

Find a source for your new windowsmake sure they will cut the new 
ones for you.take your old ones to be used as templates.  I used the 
same material (acrylic) and color as the old windows.

To remove the old windows (OWs), I took a narrow putty knife and cut 
about an inch off the blade and then sharpened the blade with a file. 
 From the inside, I cut out each window with the putty knife and a 
hammer.  Three windows came out without incident.then shit happened 
on the port, forward window..I got the sides and bottom cut but I 
couldn't easily cut the top of that window.  The original adhesive CC 
used was two part plexus and after 25 years it hardens like resin.as 
careful as I was I still managed to push the bottom of the window out 
causing the top to come loose and take a strip of gelcoat with it. 
Another repair job and another story, and another reason why the 
contractors don't like to provide an estimate on these jobs..you 
don't know for sure what you are getting yourself in for.

OWs out...cleaned them up and took them to Sabic Polymer to have new 
windows cut.same thickness, material, color.  The new windows (NWs) 
will have paper on both sidesdon't remove the paper.

Now to clean up the framesthe prep is very importantI used a 
drummel tool with a fine bit to remove most of the old adhesive, then a 
palm sander, then hand sanded.  Filled any imperfections in the frame 
with polyster resin bought at an automotive store.  When the frames are 
cleaned, it is time to place the NWs into them (dry, no adhesive) to 
determine the actual fit.

Place each NW into its respective frame and from the inside, draw a line 
with a marker along the inside of the frame onto the paper on the NW. 
You will need to have someone hold the NW from the outside or have the 
NW braced...I will get to the bracing shortly.  The inside paper along 
the line must be cut from the window with a razor blade or sharp utility 
knife.  It is this part on the NW that will be glued to the frame. I 
repeat, it is a slow and labor intensive job.patience is required.

When the inside paper along the line has been cut and removed, there 
will be about an inch of NW exposed..rough up this exposed glass 
with sand paper.

With a good quality masking tape, tape the frames both inside and 
outside...do a good job with this as it is important for cleanup.  Also 
have plenty of rags for cleanup and a solvent like Varsol.if you use 
Sika as the adhesive, it is black and messy.

Now you are ready to begin installing the NWs.  I researched what 
adhesive to use and I went with Sikaflex 295 UV and if you choose this 
as well, make sure you get the Sikaflex primer.it is expensive, but 
don't, I repeat, don't do this without using the Sika primer.

Two tubes of Sika 295 will be sufficient..I had both tubes opened, 
each in a caulking gun.one tube I had the end cut to produce a 
'triangle bead'.the second tube had the normal small bead.

Take your Sika primer and apply to one frame at a time..then apply 
the primer to the NW where you cut the paper from.  Read the 
instructions carefully and watch the time between applying the primer 
and then the adhesive..I think you should wait 

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows Frameless

[Joel Aronson]

Steve,

FWIW when I had my windows replaced, Maritime Plastics said they stay away
from screws, as they create another potential site for a leak.  They used 1
screw in each of the aft corners because of the curvature of the window.

Joel
35/3

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Steve Thomas sthom...@sympatico.cawrote:

 **

 Once again the topic of window replacement, and once again I am confused
 by some of the posts.
 Since there are two basic and distinct types of installation: aluminum
 window frames, and glued-and-screwed directly to the
 fibreglass/gelcoat, could we please adopt some sort of identifier when
 providing advice or recommending products?

 What is appropriate for one type of installation is not necessarily
 appropriate or applicable to the other.

 Perhaps the subject line could include the words framed window or
 frameless window to indicate which is being discussed?

 Mine are glued-and-screwed frameless windows, and they do leak. The screws
 are like wood screws and won't stay tight. Think I may try Seal All on
 them. 3M UV4000 sticks very well to gelcoat, but not so much to Plexiglas.
 Tried using it as a bead of caulk along the top edge, but it pulled away
 from the Plexiglas after a couple of years.

 Steve Thomas
 CC27 MKIII
 Port Stanley, ON

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request

[Nate Flesness]

A common and effective temporary leak stop for frameless is tape - your 
choice of electrical tape color, over all window edges.
It works surprisingly well to stop water ingress (unlike everything else I have 
heard or tried), and lasts a few months, and looks like ... well like you 
taped your windows.

There are two kinds of frameless CC's in my marina, those with tape, and those 
with replaced windows.

Nate
(newer windows [cast acrylic + plexus, 3rd season and happy])
Sarah Jean
1980 30-1
Siskiwit Bay Marina
Lake Superior
(on the hard in 48 hours :-()


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 10:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request


Once again the topic of window replacement, and once again I am confused by 
some of the posts.
Since there are two basic and distinct types of installation: aluminum window 
frames, and glued-and-screwed directly to the fibreglass/gelcoat, could we 
please adopt some sort of identifier when providing advice or recommending 
products?

What is appropriate for one type of installation is not necessarily appropriate 
or applicable to the other.

Perhaps the subject line could include the words framed window or frameless 
window to indicate which is being discussed?

Mine are glued-and-screwed frameless windows, and they do leak. The screws are 
like wood screws and won't stay tight. Think I may try Seal All on them. 3M 
UV4000 sticks very well to gelcoat, but not so much to Plexiglas. Tried using 
it as a bead of caulk along the top edge, but it pulled away from the Plexiglas 
after a couple of years.

Steve Thomas
CC27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
___
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request

[dwight veinot]

Steve

 

I believe the procedure described in some detail by Bob Abbott a few posts
back would work very well on your windows.  He has a 32 with frameless
windows and he did the job without the help of screws of any sort.  He did a
real neat job about 2-3 years ago and it's holding up great.  I gave him a
little advice about materials and some encouragement and I know what he did
was a time consuming and tedious job but he ended up with an as new look
and good quality seals that flex with the structure.that is why I recommend
a uv resistant polyurethane adhesive like Sikaflex 295uv.

 

Dwight Veinot

CC 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: October 12, 2012 12:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request

 

 

Once again the topic of window replacement, and once again I am confused by
some of the posts. 

Since there are two basic and distinct types of installation: aluminum
window frames, and glued-and-screwed directly to the fibreglass/gelcoat,
could we please adopt some sort of identifier when providing advice or
recommending products?

 

What is appropriate for one type of installation is not necessarily
appropriate or applicable to the other.

 

Perhaps the subject line could include the words framed window or
frameless window to indicate which is being discussed?

 

Mine are glued-and-screwed frameless windows, and they do leak. The screws
are like wood screws and won't stay tight. Think I may try Seal All on them.
3M UV4000 sticks very well to gelcoat, but not so much to Plexiglas. Tried
using it as a bead of caulk along the top edge, but it pulled away from the
Plexiglas after a couple of years.

 

Steve Thomas

CC27 MKIII

Port Stanley, ON

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5327 - Release Date: 10/12/12

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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request

[Stevan Plavsa]

I might be in the minority and likely jinxing myself but my 1980 CC 32 has
original windows as far as I can tell. I know the previous owner and he had
the boat for 8 years prior to me and he never did a thing to the boat, much
less replace the windows. They don't leak.

Yet. :(

I have Bob's (Azura) nice write up printed and tucked away in my boat
binder onboard. Thank you Bob!

Steve
CC 32
Toronto


On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Nate Flesness n...@isis.org wrote:

  A common and effective temporary leak stop for frameless is tape -
 your choice of electrical tape color, over all window edges.

 It works surprisingly well to stop water ingress (unlike everything else I
 have heard or tried), and lasts a few months, and looks like ... well
 like you taped your windows.

 ** **

 There are two kinds of frameless CC's in my marina, those with tape, and
 those with replaced windows.

 ** **

 Nate

 (newer windows [cast acrylic + plexus, 3rd season and happy])

 Sarah Jean

 1980 30-1

 Siskiwit Bay Marina

 Lake Superior

 (on the hard in 48 hours :-()

 ** **

 ** **

 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
 Thomas
 *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2012 10:55 AM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Stus-List Replacing Windows Type Request

 ** **

  

 Once again the topic of window replacement, and once again I am confused
 by some of the posts. 

 Since there are two basic and distinct types of installation: aluminum
 window frames, and glued-and-screwed directly to the
 fibreglass/gelcoat, could we please adopt some sort of identifier when
 providing advice or recommending products?

  

 What is appropriate for one type of installation is not necessarily
 appropriate or applicable to the other.

  

 Perhaps the subject line could include the words framed window or
 frameless window to indicate which is being discussed?

  

 Mine are glued-and-screwed frameless windows, and they do leak. The screws
 are like wood screws and won't stay tight. Think I may try Seal All on
 them. 3M UV4000 sticks very well to gelcoat, but not so much to Plexiglas.
 Tried using it as a bead of caulk along the top edge, but it pulled away
 from the Plexiglas after a couple of years.

  

 Steve Thomas

 CC27 MKIII

 Port Stanley, ON

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[John and Maryann Read]

Bob

 

Very well done description of what we did when we replaced windows 6 years
ago.  Used the Sikaflex 295.  Predrilled holes in each corner of the acrylic
to hold in place while curing.  Screwed in new window until cured - removed
and backfilled holes with sealant.  Very important to do while on the hard
so there is no movement of the boat.  Also to have correct temperature and
humidity and materials within shelf life.  Takes about a week for it to cure
enough to remove the screws.  Sikaflex web site has great detailed
instructions.  Look great and no leaks so far

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 CC 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:24 AM
To: secondwind...@comcast.net; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Windows

 

Paul:

I posted this earlier on the list.trusting it will help

Bob Abbott AZURA
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax. N.S.



Our 1984 - 32 had original side cabin windows that leaked.no matter 
what I tried to stop the leaks, it didn't work. The last straw was when 
we put new upholstery on the boat in 2009I couldn't put up with 
leaks any more.
 
So in the Spring 2010, while the boat was still under the white 
shrinkwrap cover, the decision was made to install new windows.  I first 
asked some of the contractors around the boatyard what they would charge 
to do the job.most said they wouldn't do it because the windows 
don't have frames and/or screws.two problems for the 
contractorswithout frames and/or screws, the job is more time 
consuming and hard to provide an estimate of time, and second, without 
frames and/or screws, they can't guarantee the windows will stay in 
place.  I must warn you, this is a time consuming job.
 
Find a source for your new windowsmake sure they will cut the new 
ones for you.take your old ones to be used as templates.  I used the 
same material (acrylic) and color as the old windows.
 
To remove the old windows (OWs), I took a narrow putty knife and cut 
about an inch off the blade and then sharpened the blade with a file. 
 From the inside, I cut out each window with the putty knife and a 
hammer.  Three windows came out without incident.then shit happened 
on the port, forward window..I got the sides and bottom cut but I 
couldn't easily cut the top of that window.  The original adhesive CC 
used was two part plexus and after 25 years it hardens like resin.as 
careful as I was I still managed to push the bottom of the window out 
causing the top to come loose and take a strip of gelcoat with it. 
Another repair job and another story, and another reason why the 
contractors don't like to provide an estimate on these jobs..you 
don't know for sure what you are getting yourself in for.
 
OWs out...cleaned them up and took them to Sabic Polymer to have new 
windows cut.same thickness, material, color.  The new windows (NWs) 
will have paper on both sidesdon't remove the paper.
 
Now to clean up the framesthe prep is very importantI used a 
drummel tool with a fine bit to remove most of the old adhesive, then a 
palm sander, then hand sanded.  Filled any imperfections in the frame 
with polyster resin bought at an automotive store.  When the frames are 
cleaned, it is time to place the NWs into them (dry, no adhesive) to 
determine the actual fit.
 
Place each NW into its respective frame and from the inside, draw a line 
with a marker along the inside of the frame onto the paper on the NW. 
You will need to have someone hold the NW from the outside or have the 
NW braced...I will get to the bracing shortly.  The inside paper along 
the line must be cut from the window with a razor blade or sharp utility 
knife.  It is this part on the NW that will be glued to the frame. I 
repeat, it is a slow and labor intensive job.patience is required.
 
When the inside paper along the line has been cut and removed, there 
will be about an inch of NW exposed..rough up this exposed glass 
with sand paper.
 
With a good quality masking tape, tape the frames both inside and 
outside...do a good job with this as it is important for cleanup.  Also 
have plenty of rags for cleanup and a solvent like Varsol.if you use 
Sika as the adhesive, it is black and messy.
 
Now you are ready to begin installing the NWs.  I researched what 
adhesive to use and I went with Sikaflex 295 UV and if you choose this 
as well, make sure you get the Sikaflex primer.it is expensive, but 
don't, I repeat, don't do this without using the Sika primer.
 
Two tubes of Sika 295 will be sufficient..I had both tubes opened, 
each in a caulking gun.one tube I had the end cut to produce a 
'triangle bead'.the second tube had the normal small bead.
 
Take your Sika primer and apply to one frame at a time..then apply 
the primer to the NW where you cut the paper from.  Read the 
instructions carefully and watch