Stus-List Keel Bolts torque

[Paul Hood via CnC-List]

For many years I've been wanting to check my keel bolt torque and after a light 
grounding last year in anchorage, I acquired the tools and was shocked this 
last weekend to find all nuts measured 35-50 pounds of torque.  For my '81 
C with 1" rods in the keel, the torque should be closer to 350lbs.  My 
point in saying this is to simply suggest that you might want to check yours if 
like me, you haven't checked lately or never have.

Paul Hood
REFUGE - ’81 C Georgian Bay

Stus-List keel bolts

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Keel:
My boatyard did something similar when we replaced the keel.  They prepped the 
joint surfaces with the intention of glassing the joint, ground a six inch 
bevel into the fiberglass stub, and the top edge of the lead keel.  They 
cleaned out all the bolt holes, buttered the keel joint, lowered the hull onto 
the keel and got it all lined up so it was centerline and in line vertically.  
Once it was all lined up, they filled the hole voids from inside with an 
epoxy/glass fibers mixture and then tightened all the nuts on the keel bolts.   
Then they wrapped the joint w two layers of 1708.  Fairing took the most time, 
painted the new fairing w interprotect, bottom paint, launch.  They advised me 
never to touch the keel bolt nuts as the epoxy and fiberglass was really 
holding it all together.  It's been tight for 12 years.  Work done by Down 
Jersey in Greenwich, NJ.

Chuck, Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md



> On April 25, 2020 at 12:14 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, David. Where are you/your boat located? Here's how I 
> did the smile repair on my boat:
> 
> Dropped the keel. Flushed out the keel bolt holes.  The forward bolt hole 
> (which was under the mast) had a void around it, and a terrible smell when it 
> was flushed out. The yard ground the surface of the keel and the stub, filled 
> the void with a gallon of epoxy (yes, a gallon), and epoxied the keel to the 
> stub. New washers were fabricated (large square stainless, tapered so that 
> the old washers and nuts would lay flat against the new washers). The old 
> washers were replaced with the newly fabricated washers, and then placed on 
> top of the new washers with the nuts torqued to spec. Finally the smile was 
> covered with fiberglass and epoxy. After more than ten years, the smile 
> hasn't returned, and I haven't had to torque the nuts again.
> 
> Some members of the list used a flexible seal instead of epoxy between 
> the stub and the  keel. I don't know how that worked for them. I'll be on my 
> boat this wee4k, and I'll try to take some pictures of the keel bolt washers.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty (1984)
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
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Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie,


In answer to your questions:


Yes, keel bolts can be tightened while the boat is in the water or on a cradle. 
 Intuitively, many have suggested that the boat needs to be on a cradle with 
the keel supported so the keel is not "hanging".  However, a calculation of 
loads and forces indicates that the difference in bolt force between in the 
water and out is on the order of 5% -- doesn't really matter all that much.  
The total bolt pretension (summing all bolt forces due to the torque) is on the 
order of 80,000 to 100,000 lbs (depending on bolt sizes of course).  The idea 
that the 5000 lb. keel is "hanging" is misleading.


Purpose of the pretensioning is to close the joint and keep it closed under 
load (boat heeling).


Over torquing, as you note, could cause any number of problems -- pullout of 
bolts from keel, thread damage, crushing of fiberglass, or overstressing of the 
bolt (yielding).  Fracture, if the bolt is not compromised by corrosion, would 
be very unlikely -- too much torque required, as well as a large bolt 
elongation.


Depending on the rate of leak, decide whether to wait or do it now.  If you 
have the tools, tighten now.  I see no need to ground the boat for this -- you 
really only gain about 5% reduction in the torque for all that risk.  The 
margin of error in the determination of the torque is much larger than 5%.


Jeff Laman

1981 C "Harmony"

Ludington, MI

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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Did you try:

Marine Museum of the Great Lakes at Kingston
53 Yonge Street, Kingston, Ontario K7M 6G4

613 542-2261

mana...@marmuseum.ca

https://www.marmuseum.ca/



On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 22:43, Gregory Noye  wrote:

> Hi all, I would like to locate original drawings/ plans for a 1980c& c
> land fall 38. I require them to put my vessel into survey here in New
> Zealand . I have tried two Canadian maritime museums .
>
> thanks is in advance Gregory Noye
>
> On 13 February 2019 at 08:55 Rob Ball via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> All the C Keels have a safety factor of FIVE with the boat heeled 90
> degrees  . . . . so that keel joint is pretty conservative.
>
>
>
> Cracks and ‘Smiles’ are normally the fiberglass bending (it is plastic
> remember) outboard of the bolts and washers  . . .
>
>
>
> The best thing to do (although we never did it) would be to have the
> ‘washers’ the full *width* of the sump – to hold that corner down to the
> keel top.  You can’t get all the way, of course, but the farther (closer)
> to the actual outboard corner, the better  . . .
>
>
>
> *Rob Ball  *C 34
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Heaton 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2019 2:39 PM
> *To:* cnc-list 
> *Cc:* cenel...@aol.com; bwhitmore ; Rob Ball <
> r...@edsonintl.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question
>
>
>
> We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to
> do some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive
> material removed in an earlier repair.  Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with
> the nuts off, hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at
> all.  Wedges were needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short
> hydraulic jacks slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way
> off past the keel bolts.  They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of
> pressure on the jacks to push the keel bolts and keel down and off.
>
>
>
> That thing was not going to fall off on its own.  ...and on examination
> the keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or
> any other issues.
>
>
>
> Ken Heaton
> S/V Salazar - Can 54955
> C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
> Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
>
>
>
>
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>
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> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

All the C Keels have a safety factor of FIVE with the boat heeled 90 degrees  
. . . . so that keel joint is pretty conservative.

Cracks and ‘Smiles’ are normally the fiberglass bending (it is plastic 
remember) outboard of the bolts and washers  . . .

The best thing to do (although we never did it) would be to have the ‘washers’ 
the full width of the sump – to hold that corner down to the keel top.  You 
can’t get all the way, of course, but the farther (closer) to the actual 
outboard corner, the better  . . .

Rob Ball  C 34

From: Ken Heaton 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 2:39 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com; bwhitmore ; Rob Ball 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to do 
some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive material 
removed in an earlier repair.  Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with the nuts off, 
hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at all.  Wedges were 
needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short hydraulic jacks 
slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way off past the keel 
bolts.  They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of pressure on the jacks to 
push the keel bolts and keel down and off.

That thing was not going to fall off on its own.  ...and on examination the 
keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or any 
other issues.

Ken Heaton
S/V Salazar - Can 54955
C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

We had our keel off once a few years ago, to check the keel bolts, and to
do some repairs to the the keel sump where there had been some excessive
material removed in an earlier repair.  Our keel weighs 7000 lbs but with
the nuts off, hanging on it own weight on just the bolts it didn't move at
all.  Wedges were needed to break it loose and then a couple of very short
hydraulic jacks slipped into the gap to push the keel the rest of the way
off past the keel bolts.  They tell me there was about 10,000 lbs. of
pressure on the jacks to push the keel bolts and keel down and off.

That thing was not going to fall off on its own.  ...and on examination the
keel bolts were perfect, not the slightest sign of crevice corrosion or any
other issues.

Ken Heaton
S/V Salazar - Can 54955
C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia

https://c-c-37-40.blogspot.ca/p/salazar.html

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 14:32, bwhitmore via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Thanks Rob!
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> ___
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> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
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>
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Thanks Rob!


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

This was my experience when removing my keel. We had to “break it loose” when 
lifting the hull.

Question for you Rob, my keel joint had epoxy for the keel stub/keel joint 
which I assumed was done by a PO when the bottom was peeled and epoxy coated. 
Was it actually done at the plant?

Regards,
Dave
1982 C 37

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2019, at 13:11, Rob Ball via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I have watched a number of keels removed from a hull.  Most all the time the 
> epoxy held the keel when the nuts were removed.  In fact there are special 
> wedges made to try to break it loose  . . . . . It is a really tough job  . . 
> . .
> Bottom line, in my opinion, it will not matter whether the torquing is done 
> in or out of the water . . . .
>  
> Rob Ball  C 34
> 
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

I have watched a number of keels removed from a hull.  Most all the time the 
epoxy held the keel when the nuts were removed.  In fact there are special 
wedges made to try to break it loose  . . . . . It is a really tough job  . . . 
.
Bottom line, in my opinion, it will not matter whether the torquing is done in 
or out of the water . . . .

Rob Ball  C 34
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie,

Sorry you have a leak. I believe you have a very unique centerboard version of 
the 34/36plus. I don't know if they ever made another.

Anyway, can you see where the leak is coming from? Was the keel to hull joint 
showing when it was last on the hard?

I would wait until the boat is on the hard to tighten keel bolts. I would want 
the weight of the keel supported and the weight of the hull resting properly on 
the keel, so gravity is your friend, compressing the joint for you. I wouldn't 
touch the system while in the water because in that state, gravity is trying to 
pull the 5000# keel off and if you snap a bolt, you may create a problem rather 
than solve one.

Wild idea: Maybe take the boat to a dock that is deep at high tide, but when 
the tide goes out, the keel is aground, so you could use the mud to support the 
keel and tighten the keel bolts during the low tide with some hull weight 
pressing down on the joint. Fix the leak and float off on the high tide.

If that doesn't fix the leak, I would try and schedule a short haulout to block 
the keel only, tighten the bolts you can get to and relaunch to see if that 
fixed the leak. If it doesn't, pull the mast so you can tighten those bolts, 
relaunch to see if that fixes the leak. If it doesn't, haul the boat again and 
drop the keel to reseal the joint.

Be sure the boatyard catches the keel properly with large blocks positioned 
under the keel and no further aft than the end of the joint. Since our keels 
sweep back, don't let them block it further back where it could cause extra 
leverage and actually open the smile up front. And don't let them support the 
boat from the end of the bulb or wings. I've seen keels supported too far back 
when it's easy to do it properly. The stands are meant to support 10% of the 
weight so 90% is on the keel. I also like to see it level and plumb to best 
support everything.

Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C 34R


> On February 11, 2019 at 1:18 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am not an engineer in any sense of the word but perhaps someone on the 
> list can critique these thoughts of mine:
> 
> Keel bolts can be tightened on the hard (while resting on the keel) or in 
> the water while the keel is hanging from the bolts.
> 
> I suspect the job would be considerably easier (assuming the bolts are 
> loose) it one did not have to lift the keel with the torque wrench while 
> tightening the  bolts--at least until the keel has met the stub.
> 
> The torque numbers recommended are presumably set by the 
> manufacturer/designer to provide enough pressure between the keel stub and 
> keel surface for both absolute stability in all directions of potential 
> motion (pitch, yaw and roll?) as well as to seal this joint against water 
> intrusion (along with some sealing compound). 
> 
> OTOH, after this torque number is reached further tightening is likely 
> counter-productive since it is either pulling the keel bolt out of the soft 
> lead of the keel, driving the nut/washer down through the stub or stripping 
> the bolt or nut threads--none of which is desirable. 
> 
> Assuming the above makes sense, as long as the recommended torque is 
> reached but not seriously exceeded, it seems  the bolts can be tightened in 
> the water or out, hanging from the keel stub or resting on the keel, as long 
> as the recommended torque is reached.
> 
> I have a practical reason for a list critique of this:  
> 
> I have a small water leak somewhere between my cb trunk/keel and the cb 
> trunk/keel stub that I noticed just before the boat was splashed back in 
> October but too late to fix then.   
> 
> My keel bolts have never been tightened.
> 
> The boat will not be on the hard again until late summer of 2019.
> 
> I am considering tightening the bolts I can reach to some 
> specification--but a few are under the mast to which some of the purchase for 
> the cb is also attached. Thus reaching all of them would require pulling the 
> mast AND undoing this cb purchase--which for me is best done by the yard this 
> summer.
> 
> My question: should I tighten the bolts I can reach now or 
> forget-about-it until the yard can do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
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Stus-List Keel bolts comment/question

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I am not an engineer in any sense of the word but perhaps someone on the list 
can critique these thoughts of mine:
Keel bolts can be tightened on the hard (while resting on the keel) or in the 
water while the keel is hanging from the bolts.

I suspect the job would be considerably easier (assuming the bolts are loose) 
it one did not have to lift the keel with the torque wrench while tightening 
the  bolts--at least until the keel has met the stub.
The torque numbers recommended are presumably set by the manufacturer/designer 
to provide enough pressure between the keel stub and keel surface for both 
absolute stability in all directions of potential motion (pitch, yaw and roll?) 
as well as to seal this joint against water intrusion (along with some sealing 
compound). 
OTOH, after this torque number is reached further tightening is likely 
counter-productive since it is either pulling the keel bolt out of the soft 
lead of the keel, driving the nut/washer down through the stub or stripping the 
bolt or nut threads--none of which is desirable. 
Assuming the above makes sense, as long as the recommended torque is reached 
but not seriously exceeded, it seems the bolts can be tightened in the water or 
out, hanging from the keel stub or resting on the keel, as long as the 
recommended torque is reached.
I have a practical reason for a list critique of this:  
I have a small water leak somewhere between my cb trunk/keel and the cb 
trunk/keel stub that I noticed just before the boat was splashed back in 
October but too late to fix then.   
My keel bolts have never been tightened.
The boat will not be on the hard again until late summer of 2019.
I am considering tightening the bolts I can reach to some specification--but a 
few are under the mast to which some of the purchase for the cb is also 
attached. Thus reaching all of them would require pulling the mast AND undoing 
this cb purchase--which for me is best done by the yard this summer.
My question: should I tighten the bolts I can reach now or forget-about-it 
until the yard can do it.



Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb


















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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts: To Lube or Not To Lube

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

If the keel bolts and nuts are stainless I'd use Tef Gel as a lubricant and
lower the torque values 10% as Neil suggested.

"The function of Tef-Gel in eliminating seizing galling and friction
welding of stainless steel, inconel, and other nickel alloys.  Tef-Gel
applied to both mating surfaces of nuts and bolts or threaded holes and
bolts leaves a layer of 40% solid PTFE within the thread interface, which
works as friction barrier. Tef-Gel, which contains 0% volatile solvents,
will no evaporate, cold flow, or dry out, giving protection many years
later when hardware must be dissembled."

Available a West Marine, Jamestown Distributors and at the Binnacle:
http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=8658

Ken H.

On 13 April 2017 at 18:24, Neil Schiller via CnC-List  wrote:

> Lower all torque values by 10% if using any lubricant.  Most torque values
> are for "clean and dry threads".
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
> (C 35, Mark I)
> "Corsair"
>
> On 4/13/2017 10:18 AM, Eugene Fodor via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I'm planning on checking the torque on my keel bolts this week-end. My
> boat is on the hard. I see the torque chart values on the C website, but
> it doesn't indicate whether or not to lubricate the bolts and what to use
> if you do lubricate. It's my understanding from a little research that the
> torque value also change based on presence of lubrication. What do you all
> think?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gene
> "Hawk"
> C 29-2
>
>
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> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts: To Lube or Not To Lube

[Neil Schiller via CnC-List]

Lower all torque values by 10% if using any lubricant.  Most torque 
values are for "clean and dry threads".


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"


On 4/13/2017 10:18 AM, Eugene Fodor via CnC-List wrote:
I'm planning on checking the torque on my keel bolts this week-end. My 
boat is on the hard. I see the torque chart values on the C website, 
but it doesn't indicate whether or not to lubricate the bolts and what 
to use if you do lubricate. It's my understanding from a little 
research that the torque value also change based on presence of 
lubrication. What do you all think?


Thanks,

Gene
"Hawk"
C 29-2


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Stus-List Keel Bolts: To Lube or Not To Lube

[Eugene Fodor via CnC-List]

I'm planning on checking the torque on my keel bolts this week-end. My boat
is on the hard. I see the torque chart values on the C website, but it
doesn't indicate whether or not to lubricate the bolts and what to use if
you do lubricate. It's my understanding from a little research that the
torque value also change based on presence of lubrication. What do you all
think?

Thanks,

Gene
"Hawk"
C 29-2
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Stus-List Keel bolts

[Colin Binkley via CnC-List]

Ahoy!  
  Thanks Mike and Joe for your input. I am only thinking of the "what ifs".  
Boat has been on the hard in Portsmouth and Buffalo this year, and I recall all 
looked good. Or was my keel bleeding! Or was that another boat??? All my nuts 
and washers appear Bristol. She will be coming ashore soon and I can then plan 
to stop at MarsKeel or find all is shipshape. By the way, MarsKeel shows a C 
in for keel repair on one of their photos. 
Thanks Again
Colin
SV Lindsey Layne
US 547080
71 C 40C #3

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Taps drill out holes and add threads.
Dies thread rods/bolts. A die would be used on a keelbolt ;)
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 10:07 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel bolts

Colin

On a previous boat on keel bolt suffered from "Galling" (look it up).  It was 
at the threads exactly where the nut is when tightened and resulted in the nut 
spinning and not tightening.  Inside the keel there was no problem.  A local 
machine shop took the threads down to the next smallest size and then used a 
larger fender washer.  Think Tap and Die but whichever term means rethreading 
the bolt.  I believe that they went from the current imperial size to the very 
close but a bit smaller metric size (or vice versa).

If the problem is within the keel it is a much bigger problem.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin 
Binkley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Colin Binkley
Subject: Stus-List Keel bolts


Certainly there must be a way to flush and secure corroded keel bolts other 
than off to the foundry. 

Colin
SV Lindsey Layne
71 C 40C #3
Presently in Great Lakes
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Keel bolts

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Colin

On a previous boat on keel bolt suffered from "Galling" (look it up).  It was 
at the threads exactly where the nut is when tightened and resulted in the nut 
spinning and not tightening.  Inside the keel there was no problem.  A local 
machine shop took the threads down to the next smallest size and then used a 
larger fender washer.  Think Tap and Die but whichever term means rethreading 
the bolt.  I believe that they went from the current imperial size to the very 
close but a bit smaller metric size (or vice versa).

If the problem is within the keel it is a much bigger problem.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin 
Binkley via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Colin Binkley
Subject: Stus-List Keel bolts


Certainly there must be a way to flush and secure corroded keel bolts other 
than off to the foundry. 

Colin
SV Lindsey Layne
71 C 40C #3
Presently in Great Lakes
Sent from my iPhone
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Keel bolts

[Colin Binkley via CnC-List]

Certainly there must be a way to flush and secure corroded keel bolts other 
than off to the foundry. 

Colin
SV Lindsey Layne
71 C 40C #3
Presently in Great Lakes
Sent from my iPhone
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Bill

1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does
come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it
can move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the
source of the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in
from below it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge
with water and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source
of the leak is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and
dry well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure
well...cover with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand
glass matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't
think you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash
separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall
38...that job was probably better than when it came from the factory

Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow -
 about 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the
 influx might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has
 been some contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but
 not too sure how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the
 keel structure as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts.
 I doubt the cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are
 probably from the CC smile to the hull-keel interface.

 I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by -
 we are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’
 up - maybe 10-14’. check out:
 http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA

 *Bill Hoyne*
 Mithrandir
 ’74 CC35 MkII
 in Victoria,BC




 On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
 Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
 After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300
 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt
 and final layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider
 starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather
 is now going downhill.
 Will know if it works after haul out next year.
 Minimal cost so worth the try.



 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com

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 Today's Topics:

1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
   (Marek Dziedzic)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252

 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that
 strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer.
 The PO had told me about a hard grounding.

 I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC
 experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on
 Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be
 $$.

 At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself.

 Mike
 Atacama CnC 33
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell.

 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +
 From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing
 to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

If it rains I get MORE than ½ cup per day. I suspect you have cracks in the 
interior gelcoat and water getting in around the keel bolts, rain, stuffing box 
leakage, and other random sources of water. Tightening the keel bolts next time 
the boat is out of the water is easy enough. If you actually have a crack 
THROUGH the hull in the keel sump area, this is a pretty major issue. I am 
guessing you do not.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:13 AM
To: Bill Hoyne; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts

Bill
1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come 
down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move 
slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 
cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should 
show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should 
leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that 
area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some 
polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally 
with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound 
that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but 
if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally 
did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from 
the factory

Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.netmailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 
cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be 
more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact 
between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard 
and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is 
very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend 
directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the 
hull-keel interface.

I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - 
maybe 10-14’. check out: 
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
’74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC




On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs 
and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final 
layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 
in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going 
downhill.
Will know if it works after haul out next year.
Minimal cost so worth the try.



On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  keel bolts 
(mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
   2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
   3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
  (Marek Dziedzic)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.netmailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Message-ID:

134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberrymailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252

I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely 
enough didn't go

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

Keel seepage would concern me particularly in salt water. Not just the 
annoyance factor but the thought of anaerobic corrosion of the stainless keel 
bolts.  If this has been going on for some time I'd be inclined to drop the 
keel, inspect the bolts and do a Wally style re-bed.  It's expensive and I may 
be over thinking this but the peace of mind it would bring while offshore in 45 
knots may be worth it.

Cheers
Brent Driedger
27-5
Lake Winnipeg 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Glad your trip was yesterday.
 
 Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore.
 Docking would have been interesting to say the least.
 
 Michael Brown
 Windburn
 CC 30-1
 
 
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + 
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
 Message-ID: 
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
  
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 
 
 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that 
 strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The 
 PO had told me about a hard grounding. 
 
 I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
 experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on 
 Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be 
 $$. 
 
 At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. 
 
 Mike 
 Atacama CnC 33 
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. 
 Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. 
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Stus-List keel bolts

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Message-ID:
   
134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry


mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252

I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers
ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got
worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard
grounding.

I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with
lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding
damage.  I re-launched on Friday and sailed over to Bristol
Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$.

At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake
Ontario to myself.

Mike
Atacama CnC 33
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le
r?seau de Bell.

--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +
From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Message-ID:
   
650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov

mailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a
trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this
that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it
opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :(
His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the
keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy
outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't say it
is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the last
repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the
water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge
and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel
structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through the
boat aren't common.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM
To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne
Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

Bill:

I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone
knowledgeable inspect your boat.  It is not normal to have
cracks in the sump that are leaking water.

I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how
significant they are.

Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and
get their opinion.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold
for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing
around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was
a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel bolts
were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with
some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I
removed the bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage
around the bolts - a good sign I think. However there are
some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these
are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn't go out for a
sail so assume there would be more water ingress when the
keel is under some stress. Is there some way to seal these
cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from
the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I
just pour some epoxy in the the sump area?

Thanks!!

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
'74 CC35 MkII

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

That's exactly why I got my boat checked by a surveyor with lots of CnC 
experience once I realized fixing my bilge leak wasn't just a matter of 
tightening the keel bolts. He figured that the starboard side of the keel stub 
had delaminated from the internal filler.

Mike
Atacama CnC 33 Mk ii
Toronto


 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

-Original Message-
From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sender: CnC-List cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:26:07 
To: dwight veinotdwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill 
Hoyneho...@telus.net
Reply-To: Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.ca, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Thanks for the info, when I am on the hard next I will try this.
I am certain is it coming from the small cracks from visual observations. 
I wonder if Wally would like to leave the sunny south and make a trip up to the 
frozen north for a little hull repair work ;-)
Cheers,
Bill

 On Nov 26, 2014, at 7:13 AM, dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Bill
 
 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does 
 come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can 
 move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of 
 the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below 
 it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water 
 and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak 
 is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry 
 well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover 
 with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass 
 matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think 
 you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate 
 the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job 
 was probably better than when it came from the factory
 
 Dwight Veinot
 CC 35 MKII, Alianna
 Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net
 
 
 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 
 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx 
 might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some 
 contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure 
 how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure 
 as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the 
 cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the 
 CC smile to the hull-keel interface.
 
 I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
 are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - 
 maybe 10-14’. check out: 
 http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
  
 http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
 
 Bill Hoyne
 Mithrandir
 ’74 CC35 MkII
 in Victoria,BC
 
 
 
 
 On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
 Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
 After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. 
 lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and 
 final layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting 
 at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now 
 going downhill.
 Will know if it works after haul out next year.
 Minimal cost so worth the try.
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
 cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
 mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
   (Marek Dziedzic)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
  
 mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
 
 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that 
 strangely enough didn't go

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Hi Joe,
i watched the water come in through the small cracks in the bilge sump. I have 
a dripless shaft seal and everything else looks dry, however I do get water 
from the mast but I vacuumed that out when I cleaned the bilge. Hopefully the 
thru-hulls are OK so far so good.
Cheers,
Bill

 On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 If it rains I get MORE than ½ cup per day. I suspect you have cracks in the 
 interior gelcoat and water getting in around the keel bolts, rain, stuffing 
 box leakage, and other random sources of water. Tightening the keel bolts 
 next time the boat is out of the water is easy enough. If you actually have a 
 crack THROUGH the hull in the keel sump area, this is a pretty major issue. I 
 am guessing you do not.
  
 Joe Della Barba
 Coquina
 CC 35 MK I
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
 veinot via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:13 AM
 To: Bill Hoyne; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
  
 Bill
 
 1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does 
 come down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can 
 move slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of 
 the 1/2 cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below 
 it should show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water 
 and it should leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak 
 is...grind that area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry 
 well...then squeeze in some polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover 
 with epoxy putty and finally with resin soaked chopped strand glass 
 matt...what you describe does not sound that serious to me so I don't think 
 you would need to do a major repair...but if you have the extra cash separate 
 the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally did on his Landfall 38...that job 
 was probably better than when it came from the factory
 
 Dwight Veinot
 CC 35 MKII, Alianna
 Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net
  
  
 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 
 1/2 cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx 
 might be more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some 
 contact between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure 
 how hard and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure 
 as it is very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the 
 cracks extend directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the 
 CC smile to the hull-keel interface.
  
 I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
 are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - 
 maybe 10-14’. check out: 
 http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
  
 http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
  
 Bill Hoyne
 Mithrandir
 ’74 CC35 MkII
 in Victoria,BC
  
  
  
  
 On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
  
 Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
 Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
 After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. 
 lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and 
 final layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting 
 at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now 
 going downhill.
 Will know if it works after haul out next year.
 Minimal cost so worth the try.
  
 
  
 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
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 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
 mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Yes!! this is why i am asking. So far the keel bolts look good i.e. no water 
leaking around them. 
Sailing on the peg has got to be about as close to offshore as you can get!! 
+40 and -40 !!
Cheers,
Bill

 On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Brent Driedger via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Keel seepage would concern me particularly in salt water. Not just the 
 annoyance factor but the thought of anaerobic corrosion of the stainless keel 
 bolts.  If this has been going on for some time I'd be inclined to drop the 
 keel, inspect the bolts and do a Wally style re-bed.  It's expensive and I 
 may be over thinking this but the peace of mind it would bring while offshore 
 in 45 knots may be worth it.
 
 Cheers
 Brent Driedger
 27-5
 Lake Winnipeg 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Nov 24, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Glad your trip was yesterday.
 
 Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore.
 Docking would have been interesting to say the least.
 
 Michael Brown
 Windburn
 CC 30-1
 
 
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + 
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
 Message-ID: 
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
  
 mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
  
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 
 
 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that 
 strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. 
 The PO had told me about a hard grounding. 
 
 I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
 experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on 
 Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be 
 $$. 
 
 At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. 
 
 Mike 
 Atacama CnC 33 
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. 
 Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 
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Stus-List keel bolts

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

 with subject or body 'help' to
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
   2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
   3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
  (Marek Dziedzic)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Message-ID:
   
134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry


mailto:134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252

I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers
ago that strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got
worse this past summer. The PO had told me about a hard
grounding.

I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor
with lots of CC experience. Turns out I have hidden
grounding damage.  I re-launched on Friday and sailed over
to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$.

At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake
Ontario to myself.

Mike
Atacama CnC 33
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le
r?seau de Bell.

--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +
From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
Message-ID:
   
650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov

mailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a
trivial thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this
that was repaired in a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and it
opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :(
His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the
keel on. We ground it out and added layers of glass and
epoxy outside and then did the same on the inside. I can't
say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than
the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is
where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry
the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II
keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks
through the boat aren't common.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM
To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne
Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

Bill:

I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone
knowledgeable inspect your boat. It is not normal to have
cracks in the sump that are leaking water.

I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how
significant they are.

Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and
get their opinion.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold
for a week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing
around in the bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was
a bit salty and the mild steel

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

If you are pretty sure the crack is actually allowing water in, you might need 
to have the keel off and do some significant work :(
I just fixed a boat with this issue, but the crack was above the keel and thus 
we had access. The MK I and MK II keel stub is a pretty strong structure, so I 
would think something would have to seriously stress that to crack it through.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:31 PM
To: Bill Hoyne; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

Bill:

You will get different advice on this issue, as you have noticed.

I am no expert, but:
1.  there should not be cracks in the bilge sump between the keel bolts, and
2.  if there are cracks there, and you are quite confident that they are 
leaking water, get it checked out by a knowledgeable person.

Years back (1991), a friend bought a 1985 CC 33 MKII in near new condition.  
That Spring we were removing the antifouling paint and discovered a hairline 
crack around the front of the keel on the keel stub, not the keel joint where 
we experience the CC smile between the keel stub and the keel.  Question now 
was, it is just a surface crack?  How deep did it go into the hull?

Owner hired a guy to address the issue.   He ground out the crack and it almost 
went through the entire hull before he reached dry material.it was 
seriously deep  The previous owner had a hard grounding during Chester Race 
Week and did not tell my friend about it when he sold the boat.  It was a 
significant crack and we were glad we found it and addressed it before we took 
the boat to Boston that Summer to do the Marblehead Race.

Your call, but I would have someone experienced in these matters put my mind at 
rest.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.






On 2014/11/26 12:55 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List wrote:
Thanks for the info, when I am on the hard next I will try this.
I am certain is it coming from the small cracks from visual observations.
I wonder if Wally would like to leave the sunny south and make a trip up to the 
frozen north for a little hull repair work ;-)
Cheers,
Bill

On Nov 26, 2014, at 7:13 AM, dwight veinot 
dwight...@gmail.commailto:dwight...@gmail.com wrote:

Bill
1/2 cup per day is not really much water ingress...on my 35MKII water does come 
down the mast when it rains and accumulates under the mast step...it can move 
slowly show into the bilge...are you certain that is not the source of the 1/2 
cup per day...If you have an issue with water getting in from below it should 
show up when the boat is on the hard...fill the bilge with water and it should 
leak out and maybe let you know where the source of the leak is...grind that 
area out both sides at the keel hull joint and dry well...then squeeze in some 
polyurethane sealant , let that cure well...cover with epoxy putty and finally 
with resin soaked chopped strand glass matt...what you describe does not sound 
that serious to me so I don't think you would need to do a major repair...but 
if you have the extra cash separate the keel afrom the hull and do like Wally 
did on his Landfall 38...that job was probably better than when it came from 
the factory

Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.netmailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 
cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be 
more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact 
between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard 
and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is 
very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend 
directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the 
hull-keel interface.

I am bobing about on a 750'x137' drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea's don't look too bad from 80' up - 
maybe 10-14'. check out: 
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
'74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC




On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs 
and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final 
layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 
in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

,   Bob Bingham 
 via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
 Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
 After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 
 ft. lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt 
 and final layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider 
 starting at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as 
 weather is now going downhill.
 Will know if it works after haul out next year.
 Minimal cost so worth the try.
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
 cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
   (Marek Dziedzic)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
 
 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that 
 strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past 
 summer. The PO had told me about a hard grounding.
 
 I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of 
 CC experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched 
 on Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. 
 Will be $$.
 
 At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself.
 
 Mike
 Atacama CnC 33
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell.
 
 --
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +
 From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial 
 thing to fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in 
 a quickie put-epoxy-on-it manner and 
 it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun :(
 His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We 
 ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did 
 the same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 
 times stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE 
 that is where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the 
 bilge and watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure 
   is pretty strong and I would say 
 cracks through the boat aren't common.
 
 Joe Della Barba
 Coquina
 CC 35 MK I
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
 Robert Abbott via CnC-List
 Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM
 To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne
 Subject: Stus-List keel bolts
 
 Bill:
 
 I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable 
 inspect your boat.  It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are 
 leaking water.
 
 I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant 
 they are.
 
 Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?
 
 Rob Abbott
 AZURA
 CC 32 - 84
 Halifax, N.S.
 
 
 
 On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
 Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their 
 opinion.
 
 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC
 
 On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week 
 or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge 
 would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel 
 plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of 
 the plates with some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned   
 out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a 
 time

Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts

[Will Harris via CnC-List]

I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks.  While we
didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice...

Cracks -  It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is
breaking.  Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN.  A crack around the
keel is potentially very serious.  If it is just the CC smile, not as
serious, but if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of
the tabbing, get it looked at!

They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really
bad.  Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive.

Torque

In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes
torqing up the nuts.  My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up
to the hull with the nuts.  Don't do that!  I don't know the exact bolts
you may have, so I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is
easy to find.

All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or
breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a
bolt is a huge headache.

The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator.  To re-seat the
keel, make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel.
The nuts are just there to keep it there.

Happy Thanksgiving

Will Harris
CC Yachts
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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Thanks for the advice:

 On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Will Harris via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
 
 I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks.  While we 
 didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice...
 
 Cracks -  It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is breaking.  
 Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN.  A crack around the keel is 
 potentially very serious.  If it is just the CC smile, not as serious, but 
 if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of the tabbing, 
 get it looked at!
 
 They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really bad.  
 Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive.

When I get on the hard in the spring i can check where the cracks are coming 
from and how serious they are (I hope)

 
 Torque
 
 In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes torqing 
 up the nuts.  My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up to the hull 
 with the nuts.  Don't do that!  I don't know the exact bolts you may have, so 
 I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is easy to find.
 
 All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or 
 breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a 
 bolt is a huge headache.  

I agree. There is no point in over torquing and trying to lift the keel while 
the boat  is in the water seems difficult and senseless.

 
 The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator.  To re-seat the keel, 
 make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel.  The nuts 
 are just there to keep it there.

We will see what happens in the spring!!

 
 Happy Thanksgiving

Hope you all have a Happy Thanksgiving and eat lots of turkey!!

Bill


 Will Harris
 CC Yachts
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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolts

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Will, as someone who is going to be lifting the hull off of my keel in a month 
or so, thanks for sound advice.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 CC 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit http://roninrebuild.blogspot.com/
 On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Will Harris via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:
 
 I've been following the conversation about Keel Bolts and cracks.  While we 
 didn't build your boats, I do have some general advice...
 
 Cracks -  It is easy to think that a crack indicates something is breaking.  
 Really, it means that something HAS BROKEN.  A crack around the keel is 
 potentially very serious.  If it is just the CC smile, not as serious, but 
 if you find cracks in the laminate, or the structure or any of the tabbing, 
 get it looked at!
 
 They will not heal themselves, and the consequences are really, really bad.  
 Addressed early, the repairs may not even be too expensive.
 
 Torque
 
 In some of these threads, it seems like people are going to extremes torqing 
 up the nuts.  My guess is that you are trying to lift the keel up to the hull 
 with the nuts.  Don't do that!  I don't know the exact bolts you may have, so 
 I can't give you exact numbers, but that information is easy to find.
 
 All over torquing does is increases the odds of stripping, galling or 
 breaking a bolt. Even if you don't cause your keel to fall off, breaking a 
 bolt is a huge headache.  
 
 The proper tool is the Travellift and a good operator.  To re-seat the keel, 
 make sure that the travellift sits the hull down flush on the keel.  The nuts 
 are just there to keep it there.
 
 Happy Thanksgiving
 
 Will Harris
 CC Yachts
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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 
cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be 
more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact 
between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard 
and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is 
very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend 
directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the 
hull-keel interface.

I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - 
maybe 10-14’. check out: 
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
 
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
’74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC




 On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:
 
 Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile.
 Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned.
 After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. 
 lbs and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and 
 final layer of cloth using  West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting 
 at 1 in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now 
 going downhill.
 Will know if it works after haul out next year.
 Minimal cost so worth the try.
 
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re:  keel bolts (mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
 mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net)
2. Re:  keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe)
3. Re:  Using 12v trickle charger to test components?
   (Marek Dziedzic)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 +
 From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net mailto:mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 
 134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
 
 I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that 
 strangely enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The 
 PO had told me about a hard grounding.
 
 I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
 experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on 
 Friday and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$.
 
 At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself.
 
 Mike
 Atacama CnC 33
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell.
 
 --
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 +
 From: Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov 
 mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts
 Message-ID:
 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov 
 mailto:650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to 
 fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie 
 put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not 
 fun :(
 His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We 
 ground it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the 
 same on the inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times 
 stronger than the last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is 
 where the water coming from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and 
 watch it very carefully. The 35 MK I and II keel structure

Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Some ship! What's your job if I might ask? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
To: Bob Bingham homepor...@gmail.com, CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 12:28:52 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 

I did shop-vac the bilge and wipe it dry. The water influx was slow - about 1/2 
cup per day at most. But that was at the dock, sailing hard the influx might be 
more, i will check when I go out next. I think there has been some contact 
between the keel ad something hard in its past life but not too sure how hard 
and what repairs were done. The cracks are not in the keel structure as it is 
very strong but in the sump area between the bolts. I doubt the cracks extend 
directly to the outside hull. The leaks are probably from the CC smile to the 
hull-keel interface. 

I am bobing about on a 750'x137’ drillship watching a cold front pass by - we 
are getting 30knt sustained outside, sea’s don’t look too bad from 80’ up - 
maybe 10-14’. check out: 
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:464725/imo:9609392/mmsi:373287000/vessel:WEST%20AURIGA
 

Bill Hoyne 
Mithrandir 
’74 CC35 MkII 
in Victoria,BC 







On Nov 24, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Bob Bingham via CnC-List  cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
wrote: 

Currently working on CC 34 with the famous keel smile. 
Previously repaired by boat shop a few years back and has returned. 
After haul out I cleaned out seem filled with 4200 ,torque bolts to 300 ft. lbs 
and then covered with 2 layer matt , 2 layers cloth another matt and final 
layer of cloth using West System. Each layer was a bit wider starting at 1 
in.and ending around 5 in..Inter protect in spring as weather is now going 
downhill. 
Will know if it works after haul out next year. 
Minimal cost so worth the try. 


On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM,  cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com  wrote: 

blockquote
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 

You can reach the person managing the list at 
cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com 

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
than Re: Contents of CnC-List digest... 


Today's Topics: 

1. Re: keel bolts ( mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net ) 
2. Re: keel bolts (Della Barba, Joe) 
3. Re: Using 12v trickle charger to test components? 
(Marek Dziedzic) 


-- 

Message: 1 
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + 
From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
Message-ID: 
 
134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
  

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 

I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely 
enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told 
me about a hard grounding. 

I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage. I re-launched on Friday 
and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. 

At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. 

Mike 
Atacama CnC 33 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. 
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. 

-- 

Message: 2 
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:32:40 + 
From: Della Barba, Joe  joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov  
To:  cnc-list@cnc-list.com   cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
Message-ID: 
 650fe5515a854a538cf20c0410063...@nsc-dag3-06.ba.ad.ssa.gov  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 

Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to 
fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie 
put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun 
:( 
His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground 
it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the 
inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the 
last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming 
from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 
35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through 
the boat aren't common. 

Joe Della Barba 
Coquina 
CC 35 MK I 
From: CnC-List [mailto: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Robert 
Abbott via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM 
To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Stus-List keel bolts

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Bill:

I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable 
inspect your boat.  It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are 
leaking water.


I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant 
they are.


Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their 
opinion.


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a
week or so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the
bilge would be fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the
mild steel plates below the keel bolts were badly corroded so I
replaced some of the plates with some 3/8 316SS. I cleaned out
the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a time :-)
there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think.
However there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel
bolts and these are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn't go
out for a sail so assume there would be more water ingress when
the keel is under some stress. Is there some way to seal these
cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from the
bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I just pour
some epoxy in the the sump area?

Thanks!!

/Bill Hoyne/
Mithrandir
'74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC



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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely 
enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told 
me about a hard grounding. 

I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on Friday 
and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$.

At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself.

Mike 
Atacama CnC 33 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Yes - having cracks through the bottom of the boat is not a trivial thing to 
fix. A friends boat had an issue like this that was repaired in a quickie 
put-epoxy-on-it manner and it opened up while he was out. That trip was not fun 
:(
His crack was above the keel, so we could get at it with the keel on. We ground 
it out and added layers of glass and epoxy outside and then did the same on the 
inside. I can't say it is perfect, but it is about 500 times stronger than the 
last repair. Also you might want to make SURE that is where the water coming 
from. I would shop vac and towel dry the bilge and watch it very carefully. The 
35 MK I and II keel structure is pretty strong and I would say cracks through 
the boat aren't common.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
CC 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:00 AM
To: Jim Watts; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Bill Hoyne
Subject: Stus-List keel bolts

Bill:

I would tend to agree with Jim Watts.have someone knowledgeable inspect 
your boat.  It is not normal to have cracks in the sump that are leaking water.

I would not simply cover up the cracks without knowing how significant they are.

Did your boat experience a 'hard grounding'?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2014/11/23 12:57 AM, Jim Watts via CnC-List wrote:
Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their opinion.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. 
So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The 
water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel 
bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8 
316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a 
time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think. However 
there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these are 
seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn't go out for a sail so assume there 
would be more water ingress when the keel is under some stress. Is there some 
way to seal these cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from 
the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I just pour some epoxy 
in the the sump area?

Thanks!!

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
'74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC


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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Glad your trip was yesterday.

Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore.
Docking would have been interesting to say the least.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + 
From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
Message-ID: 
     
134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 
 
I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely 
enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told 
me about a hard grounding.  
 
I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on Friday 
and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. 
 
At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. 
 
Mike  
Atacama CnC 33  
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. 
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. 
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Stus-List keel bolts

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or so. 
So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be fun. The 
water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below the keel 
bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with some 3/8” 
316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the bolts, one at a 
time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good sign I think. However 
there are some cracks in the sump area between the keel bolts and these are 
seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn’t go out for a sail so assume there 
would be more water ingress when the keel is under some stress. Is there some 
way to seal these cracks without dropping the keel? What is the thickness from 
the bottom of the bilge to the top of the keel stub? Can I just pour some epoxy 
in the the sump area?

Thanks!!

Bill Hoyne
Mithrandir
’74 CC35 MkII
in Victoria,BC___
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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Sounds like a pro job to me. I would talk to Blackline and get their
opinion.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 22 November 2014 at 12:02, Bill Hoyne via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 wrote:

 I blasted out to Victoria to escape the frigid Alberta cold for a week or
 so. So I thought a little biking and messing around in the bilge would be
 fun. The water in the bilge was a bit salty and the mild steel plates below
 the keel bolts were badly corroded so I replaced some of the plates with
 some 3/8” 316SS. I cleaned out the bilge and watched. When I removed the
 bolts, one at a time :-) there was no seepage around the bolts - a good
 sign I think. However there are some cracks in the sump area between the
 keel bolts and these are seeping water at about 100ml/day. I didn’t go out
 for a sail so assume there would be more water ingress when the keel is
 under some stress. Is there some way to seal these cracks without dropping
 the keel? What is the thickness from the bottom of the bilge to the top of
 the keel stub? Can I just pour some epoxy in the the sump area?

 Thanks!!

 *Bill Hoyne*
 Mithrandir
 ’74 CC35 MkII
 in Victoria,BC

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 page at:
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