Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Silly facts always get in the way of a good yarn don't they?

Mike

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Got an url?
>
> Always asking for a hand out.
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>Got an url?

Always asking for a hand out.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Got an url?

Mike

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 6:14 PM, John Duncan Yoyo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> No they just put it in a stronger cage.
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 7:36 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Apple patches adobe products?  I would have never guessed.
> >
> >  Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  > >So you just guessed that it was Flash based on nothing even though
> every
> >  > >website says Apple is working on the patch?  Not exactly Columbo are
> ya?
> >  >
> >  > I get paid to make such guesses.
> >  >
> >  > What do people pay you to do?
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> *
> >  > **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy
>  **
> >  > **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
> >  >
> *
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
>  *
> >  **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy
>  **
> >  **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
> >
>  *
> >
>
>
>
> --
> John Duncan Yoyo
> ---o)
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[John Duncan Yoyo]

No they just put it in a stronger cage.

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 7:36 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Apple patches adobe products?  I would have never guessed.
>
>  Mike
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  > >So you just guessed that it was Flash based on nothing even though every
>  > >website says Apple is working on the patch?  Not exactly Columbo are ya?
>  >
>  > I get paid to make such guesses.
>  >
>  > What do people pay you to do?
>  >
>  >
>  > *
>  > **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
>  > **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
>  > *
>  >
>
>
>  *
>  **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
>  **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
>  *
>



-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Apple patches adobe products?  I would have never guessed.

Mike

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >So you just guessed that it was Flash based on nothing even though every
> >website says Apple is working on the patch?  Not exactly Columbo are ya?
>
> I get paid to make such guesses.
>
> What do people pay you to do?
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>So you just guessed that it was Flash based on nothing even though every
>website says Apple is working on the patch?  Not exactly Columbo are ya?

I get paid to make such guesses. 

What do people pay you to do?


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

So you just guessed that it was Flash based on nothing even though every
website says Apple is working on the patch?  Not exactly Columbo are ya?

Mike

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >BTW you got a link for this since at the time of the contest they weren't
> >releasing any info on the security hole except that 'Apple was going to
> work
> >on a patch' ?
>
> This is based on my own analysis, which is available to only the
> privileged few. I hope you feel suitably honored.
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>BTW you got a link for this since at the time of the contest they weren't
>releasing any info on the security hole except that 'Apple was going to work
>on a patch' ?

This is based on my own analysis, which is available to only the 
privileged few. I hope you feel suitably honored.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

That's why I was wondering where Tom got his info since the exploit was
unreleased to the public.

MIke

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Stephen Brownfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I noticed that Apple has just released an update of Safari.  I assumed
> that this was the patch.
>
>
>
> mike wrote:
>
> > BTW you got a link for this since at the time of the contest they
> > weren't
> > releasing any info on the security hole except that 'Apple was going to
> > work
> > on a patch' ?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > The recent pwn2own contest proved that mac or windows could be easily
> > > >
> > > >
> > > hacked
> > >
> > >
> > > > within hours so perhaps you should do your ad hominem attacks
> > > > against
> > > >
> > > >
> > > both
> > >
> > >
> > > > os x and windows.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > It is starting to look like the contest winner used Flash accessed via
> > > the Safari web browser to win the prize. So strictly speaking, the
> > > fault
> > > was not in any Apple-written software. Looks like Flash needs a better
> > > sandbox.
> > >
> > > To say that I would rather give up Windows than Flash is not an
> > > "hominem
> > > attack".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy
> > >  **
> > > **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy
> >  **
> > **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Stephen Brownfield]

I noticed that Apple has just released an update of Safari.  I assumed 
that this was the patch.



mike wrote:

BTW you got a link for this since at the time of the contest they weren't
releasing any info on the security hole except that 'Apple was going to work
on a patch' ?

Mike

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

The recent pwn2own contest proved that mac or windows could be easily
  

hacked


within hours so perhaps you should do your ad hominem attacks against
  

both


os x and windows.
  

It is starting to look like the contest winner used Flash accessed via
the Safari web browser to win the prize. So strictly speaking, the fault
was not in any Apple-written software. Looks like Flash needs a better
sandbox.

To say that I would rather give up Windows than Flash is not an "hominem
attack".


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*





*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

  



*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

BTW you got a link for this since at the time of the contest they weren't
releasing any info on the security hole except that 'Apple was going to work
on a patch' ?

Mike

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >The recent pwn2own contest proved that mac or windows could be easily
> hacked
> >within hours so perhaps you should do your ad hominem attacks against
> both
> >os x and windows.
>
> It is starting to look like the contest winner used Flash accessed via
> the Safari web browser to win the prize. So strictly speaking, the fault
> was not in any Apple-written software. Looks like Flash needs a better
> sandbox.
>
> To say that I would rather give up Windows than Flash is not an "hominem
> attack".
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

It's not apple's fault...they did it!!

Mike

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >The recent pwn2own contest proved that mac or windows could be easily
> hacked
> >within hours so perhaps you should do your ad hominem attacks against
> both
> >os x and windows.
>
> It is starting to look like the contest winner used Flash accessed via
> the Safari web browser to win the prize. So strictly speaking, the fault
> was not in any Apple-written software. Looks like Flash needs a better
> sandbox.
>
> To say that I would rather give up Windows than Flash is not an "hominem
> attack".
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>The recent pwn2own contest proved that mac or windows could be easily hacked
>within hours so perhaps you should do your ad hominem attacks against both
>os x and windows.

It is starting to look like the contest winner used Flash accessed via 
the Safari web browser to win the prize. So strictly speaking, the fault 
was not in any Apple-written software. Looks like Flash needs a better 
sandbox.

To say that I would rather give up Windows than Flash is not an "hominem 
attack".


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>My apologies for asking a question I'm sure has been answered before,
>but which browser do you recommend for the Mac?

I use FireFox. It has fewer problems than Safari.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Eric S. Sande]

He thinks they both suck. 


Well, Windows XP sucked in the begining.  Vista definitely
sucks.  I know nothing about Mac.  Probably it sucks too.

I'm a practical person.  If the OS does what I want with a
minimum of hassle, it's OK.  I'm a gamer and that means XP.

I'm satisfied with it but not overjoyed, if you get my drift.
 



*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Ralph]

My apologies for asking a question I'm sure has been answered before,
but which browser do you recommend for the Mac?

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:06 PM,:
>  A little more information here. It was Safari 3.1. Wow, that version has
>  been out for just a couple of weeks. It adds several significant new
>  features (like CSS animation and downloading fonts for screen display).
>  These features are exciting, but make me worry. I consider Safari 3.1 to
>  be in some respects a dot zero release. I could see a downloaded font
>  being engineered to take over a computer. I'm not hurrying to put it on
>  any computer.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Steve Rigby]

On Mar 29, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote:

Tom is evenhandedly "anti-Mac" and "anti-Windows," using both  
operating
systems about equally these days. He thinks they both suck. OS 9  
didn't

suck, but it is gone. So sad.


  I have that blasted Leotard, I mean Leopard, on a portable Mac.  I  
just might take the time and effort to remove it and put Tiger on  
there after I have tired of fooling around with 10.5.  The portable  
is but an afterthought on a daily basis, and really only for travel,  
so perhaps I'll just leave 10.5 alone and find out what Apple will  
eventually do to get it up to snuff.


  I still have 9.2 running on a couple of PPCs, and find it to be a  
nice and friendly environment, albeit on the slowest machines in the  
house.


  Steve


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId
>=9072959&source=NLT_PM&nlid=8

A little more information here. It was Safari 3.1. Wow, that version has 
been out for just a couple of weeks. It adds several significant new 
features (like CSS animation and downloading fonts for screen display). 
These features are exciting, but make me worry. I consider Safari 3.1 to 
be in some respects a dot zero release. I could see a downloaded font 
being engineered to take over a computer. I'm not hurrying to put it on 
any computer.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>http://tinyurl.com/252787

One bit of information in there. The problem was with the Safari web 
browser, not the Mac OS. I tell everyone again and again to avoid IE and 
Safari. Or at least uncheck the box that lets Safari launch downloaded 
content.

The major complaint in the story is that Apple takes too long to do its 
own quality control before passing on patches. This is a valid complaint, 
but there are also Mac users who complain that Apple does not take enough 
time for quality control before passing on patches. 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>I also do not know of anyone here who is innately "anti-Mac."   
>There are those here who are "anti-Windows" and would never use such  
>a machine unless they had to.  That cadre includes myself.

Tom is evenhandedly "anti-Mac" and "anti-Windows," using both operating 
systems about equally these days. He thinks they both suck. OS 9 didn't 
suck, but it is gone. So sad.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>Because two wrongs don't make a right. Because I don't necessarily agree
>with calling Windows users names, either, and think it is non-productive.

Sorry. My bad. I was tired. I was in a hurry. You know I type a million 
words every day, some of them are bound to be bad. The devil made me do 
it. I didn't type that, my message was hacked.

However, We do not have enough information to know whether OS X was 
really hacked. This could be just another publicity stunt as others have 
been before.

The subject line pretty much set the tone of what followed.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Perhaps the perception of the rest of us is you did not complain when Tom
calls windows users names, only when you felt insulted?  Why didn't you
complain during the solar battery charger thread when Tom insulted windows
users again for no  other reason then he likes to?  This habit of his has
been going on for a long time and it's mostly ignored but sometimes others
or myself will respond in like sarcasm.

I posted an article that was interesting to me and several users on the list
apparently.  I didn't offer any commentary negative or positive either way,
just that I'd be on the lookout for how the rest of the systems in the
contest faired.  Fairly, stories concerning mac os x's security or lack of
do have more interest because of the perception by some that they are more
secure by nature.  These kind of accurate stories reflect the true nature of
operating systems as a whole, windows, mac and linux.  Instead of looking at
the story intellectually I get responded to with emotion,  a lecture and
dismissal.  When I try to correct the record I get called dyslexic.  And
then I get told not to call people zealots?  Are you really saying there are
no mac partisans here?

Update:  Vista taken down and wonUbuntu was the only system left
standing.

http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2008/03/28/pwn-to-own-final-day-and-wrap-up

Mike


On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Michael Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>
>
> That is precisely my point. It does no good to call people zealots for
> liking the particular computer they use. Why use something they hate,
> anyway? I would rather we not refer to people as zealots, morons,
> idiots, or any number of other derogatory terms. Just provide the
> information without the misanthropic commentary.
>
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Michael Lewis]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail version 5.6.3 build 4504 English (PPC)
 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Identified-User: {956:box254.bluehost.com:loisdela:offbalance.com} 
{sentby:smtp auth 24.253.234.88 authed with michael+offbalance.com}

Chris Dunford sez:

>If I make intercede here just a bit: the phrase you mentioned, "blind Mac
>zealots" referred to the people, not the machine.

That is precisely my point. It does no good to call people zealots for
liking the particular computer they use. Why use something they hate,
anyway? I would rather we not refer to people as zealots, morons,
idiots, or any number of other derogatory terms. Just provide the
information without the misanthropic commentary.

>In any event, there wasn't any "anti-Mac zealotry". I don't know of anyone
>here who is anti-Mac; I know only of people here who are anti-Windows.

You must not have been around here very long.

> If
>our chief Mac evangelist can consistently refer to Windows users with the
>insulting phrase "Windows fanboys", then I don't know what's wrong with
>saying "Mac zealots" (although it was not my phrase).

Because two wrongs don't make a right. Because I don't necessarily agree
with calling Windows users names, either, and think it is non-productive.

But, hey, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I've seen the My Computer
Is Better Than Yours wars going on since the days of Atari and Commodore
and before. Why should I expect there not to be enough hatemongers to
annoy the rest of us and make an otherwise decent forum/website/mail
list experience end up being dreaded.

And, by the way, choosing not to use a computer system might make one
anti-whatever, but what turns one into an anti-whatever-zealot is the
need to couch everything one mentions in negative terms, gotchas, etc. I
don't care if you prefer Windows, Macs, Linux, or the old TI99-4A. But
if you can't say "Such and such computer today had a security issue"
without adding "stupid such-and-such blind moron idiots" then I'd rather
you go somewhere else and pollute some less informative part of the internet.

-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Steve Rigby]

On Mar 29, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Chris Dunford wrote:

In any event, there wasn't any "anti-Mac zealotry". I don't know of  
anyone

here who is anti-Mac; I know only of people here who are anti-Windows.


  I also do not know of anyone here who is innately "anti-Mac."   
There are those here who are "anti-Windows" and would never use such  
a machine unless they had to.  That cadre includes myself.


  Where I work there are also folks who are "anti-Windows."  The  
oddity is that they use Windows machines at work and own them at  
home.  While they claim to despise the troubles they often have to  
work through, they also say that they cannot abandon their Windows  
computers because, A) Windows is required at work, and B) They have  
too much money invested in their Windows computers and associated  
software at home.


  Steve


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Chris Dunford]

If I make intercede here just a bit: the phrase you mentioned, "blind Mac
zealots" referred to the people, not the machine. Specifically, it referred
to those who won't hear or admit that Mac is anything but perfect.
(Coincidentally, someone recently posted a link to an article mentioning the
same thing--and it was dismissed as "silly" and of no importance by the head
Mac person here.)

In any event, there wasn't any "anti-Mac zealotry". I don't know of anyone
here who is anti-Mac; I know only of people here who are anti-Windows. If
our chief Mac evangelist can consistently refer to Windows users with the
insulting phrase "Windows fanboys", then I don't know what's wrong with
saying "Mac zealots" (although it was not my phrase).


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Michael Lewis]

mike sez:

>Calm down, man...take a breather.  I'm not anti mac...I'd have one if I
>could justify the cost, I have no problem at all with them...less probably
>then windows.

I'll calm down when people can post information without using the words
"blind Mac zealots." (Thus the reason I chose to begin addressing anti-
mac zealots.) Dunno if that was you or not. I've deleted all the
messages and had my say. On to other things. :)

-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Richard P.]

According to this article, it looks like he tried that route last year 
but wasn't satisfied with the result:


http://tinyurl.com/252787

Richard P.



Snip... Once he could direct organizers to
a website, Miller put into place things he had been working on for a
month or more -- things he could have told Apple about long ago but he
doesn't care about security. He wants hacker fame and free money and
equipment. Even if he believed Apple never plugs security holes, he
could have told them and still done this since lazy ol' Apple wouldn't
have plugged it; but he didn't, because he wanted his name in the news
and a free computer.

These people are schmucks. If they really cared about us peons out here,
they would hand over their research to Apple, MicroSoft and the rest
rather than sitting back and laughing at us on the way to their banks.

  



*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Vicky Staubly]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, mike wrote:

Correction from me and for youI had read he had taken the mac because of
the appeal of the hardware.  The register reports that he chose the mac
because quote 'I thought of the three it was the easiest'.


There's a new article at ComputerWorld reporting essentially the same
thing, plus it has a bit more details about the exact hardware and OS
revisions being used for each of the 3 target platforms.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9072959&source=NLT_PM&nlid=8


On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Michael Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

They wanted
to get the Mac because that's where the cred and kudos lie. Any script
kiddy can jack up a Windows box. Linux is tougher, as well as the Mac.
In fact, they had to relax the rules of the contest after no one got
into any of the systems via network.



*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*



--
Vicky Staubly   http://www.steeds.com/vicky/[EMAIL PROTECTED]


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Correction from me and for youI had read he had taken the mac because of
the appeal of the hardware.  The register reports that he chose the mac
because quote 'I thought of the three it was the easiest'.

Mike

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Michael Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> They wanted
> to get the Mac because that's where the cred and kudos lie. Any script
> kiddy can jack up a Windows box. Linux is tougher, as well as the Mac.
> In fact, they had to relax the rules of the contest after no one got
> into any of the systems via network.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

All three of these OS's have known vulnerabilities to the vendor that aren't
patched.  All vendors have been in the past warned about holes and done
nothing for some time.  The standards were 'lowered' to the point of a
normal computer take downvisiting a web page.  They wanted to get the
mac because it was a better piece of hardware then the other systems.  And
you must not have read the article...it states clearly all contestants sign
a NDA until the contest sponsor can notify the vendor (read apple computer)
about the vulnerability exposed.  If linux and mac os x are harder to crack,
then this shows they ain't much harder, and can be taken over the same way
most windows machines are cracked.

Calm down, man...take a breather.  I'm not anti mac...I'd have one if I
could justify the cost, I have no problem at all with them...less probably
then windows.

Mike

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Michael Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> You people and your anti-mac zealotry. The fact the MacBook Air was
> "hacked" first is only because people at the event didn't bother hacking
> the other systems. Other articles quote attendees saying so. They wanted
> to get the Mac because that's where the cred and kudos lie. Any script
> kiddy can jack up a Windows box. Linux is tougher, as well as the Mac.
> In fact, they had to relax the rules of the contest after no one got
> into any of the systems via network. Once he could direct organizers to
> a website, Miller put into place things he had been working on for a
> month or more -- things he could have told Apple about long ago but he
> doesn't care about security. He wants hacker fame and free money and
> equipment. Even if he believed Apple never plugs security holes, he
> could have told them and still done this since lazy ol' Apple wouldn't
> have plugged it; but he didn't, because he wanted his name in the news
> and a free computer.
>
> These people are schmucks. If they really cared about us peons out here,
> they would hand over their research to Apple, MicroSoft and the rest
> rather than sitting back and laughing at us on the way to their banks.
>
> --
> Michael Lewis
> Off Balance Productions
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.offbalance.com
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Michael Lewis]

You people and your anti-mac zealotry. The fact the MacBook Air was
"hacked" first is only because people at the event didn't bother hacking
the other systems. Other articles quote attendees saying so. They wanted
to get the Mac because that's where the cred and kudos lie. Any script
kiddy can jack up a Windows box. Linux is tougher, as well as the Mac.
In fact, they had to relax the rules of the contest after no one got
into any of the systems via network. Once he could direct organizers to
a website, Miller put into place things he had been working on for a
month or more -- things he could have told Apple about long ago but he
doesn't care about security. He wants hacker fame and free money and
equipment. Even if he believed Apple never plugs security holes, he
could have told them and still done this since lazy ol' Apple wouldn't
have plugged it; but he didn't, because he wanted his name in the news
and a free computer.

These people are schmucks. If they really cared about us peons out here,
they would hand over their research to Apple, MicroSoft and the rest
rather than sitting back and laughing at us on the way to their banks.

-- 
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[b_s-wilk]

Apple has released 4 security updates in March, 
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222. I got a notice for a Mozilla 
SeaMonkey security update today. Firefox updated earlier this week, also 
Thunderbird. These are for all platforms


http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html

Betty



Incorrect...or misleading at least.  They didn't 'follow a script' at least
not if you want to be clear to the peanut gallery.  They visited a web page
that was infected...you know the kind of stuff that never happens.  Good
thing macs don't use web pages.

Mike



*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Chris Dunford]

Well, I read it, and in fact your summary was not accurate at all, unless by
"script" you mean "he directed the contest's organizers to visit a Web
site"  Pretty short script.

This has nothing to do with Windows fan boys. There seems little doubt that
the Vista and Linux machines were also eventually hacked as well. The point
was that, contrary to what Apple fan boys love to say, the Mac was
vulnerable.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

That's ok, it's even worse for those who get into it with blinded mac
zealots who have trouble denying realities.

I would have posted the results of all the machines but at the time there
were none, I would have been just as happy to post that the vista or linux
box got taken in 30 seconds.  Although given a choice I'd have gone at the
mac first too...i mean who would want anything but a free macbook air and
ten grand?

Google more today, still can't find out about vista and linux boxes...can't
imagine they weren't picked clean though.

Mike

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Incorrect...or misleading at least.  They didn't 'follow a script' at
> least
> >not if you want to be clear to the peanut gallery...
>
> I do not want to get into another pissing contest with dyslexic Windows
> fan boys. This is the link you provided...
>
> >> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20080327/tc_infoworld/96676
>
> Everyone can read the story and see for themselves that my summary was
> accurate.
>
> I'm sure more details will be published in the next few days and
> programmers will then discuss the significance or lack thereof.
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>Incorrect...or misleading at least.  They didn't 'follow a script' at least
>not if you want to be clear to the peanut gallery...

I do not want to get into another pissing contest with dyslexic Windows 
fan boys. This is the link you provided...

>> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20080327/tc_infoworld/96676

Everyone can read the story and see for themselves that my summary was 
accurate.

I'm sure more details will be published in the next few days and 
programmers will then discuss the significance or lack thereof.


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[mike]

Incorrect...or misleading at least.  They didn't 'follow a script' at least
not if you want to be clear to the peanut gallery.  They visited a web page
that was infected...you know the kind of stuff that never happens.  Good
thing macs don't use web pages.

Mike

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Highlights...last year a mac was taken over in nine hours, this year it
> took
> >two minutes with a web exploit.  No word in the article about how linux
> or
> >vista faired...
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20080327/tc_infoworld/96676
>
> Incorrect. Nobody was able to break into any of the systems on the first
> day. On the second day the "contestants" were allowed to specify that the
> judges perform specific actions with the computers. Following a script
> provided by a "contestant" the Mac was hacked.
>
> This reminds me of the "honor-system virus" joke.
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*

Re: [CGUYS] Macbook pwned...again

[Tom Piwowar]

>Highlights...last year a mac was taken over in nine hours, this year it took
>two minutes with a web exploit.  No word in the article about how linux or
>vista faired...
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20080327/tc_infoworld/96676

Incorrect. Nobody was able to break into any of the systems on the first 
day. On the second day the "contestants" were allowed to specify that the 
judges perform specific actions with the computers. Following a script 
provided by a "contestant" the Mac was hacked.

This reminds me of the "honor-system virus" joke. 


*
**  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
**  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
*