Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le mar 05/08/2003 à 02:56, Levi Ramsey a écrit :

> I've been thinking that maybe a DrakSudo module in DrakX might be useful
> as well, to help get a working sudoers configuration.  With a proper
> sudo setup, root login is truly unnecessary for a large percentage of
> administrative tasks.  If this could be task-based, even better.

good idea, very good idea, a must have.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Todd Lyons]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Buchan Milne wanted us to know:

>(but this would be much cooler if you could store msec settings in LDAP,
>don't you think?).

Wow, that's a sweet concept.
- -- 
Blue skies...   Todd
| Get a bigger hammer!   |  Free Linux accounts!  Ssh to 127.0.0.1.  |
| http://www.mrball.net  |  Use your existing name and password. |
| http://faq.mrball.net  | --Paul Timmins|
Linux kernel 2.4.19-24mdk   5 users,  load average: 0.06, 0.03, 0.01
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: http://www.mrball.net/todd.asc

iD8DBQE/LzcTIBT1264ScBURAvQjAJ9jJD5UpNAJnnAWdK4obYmsrr9BEgCgrAd9
P2IIQ/ycP/+yopwl28KsW+w=
=KkiD
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 14:59, Adam Williamson wrote:

> I think you're placing entirely too much emphasis on the choice of words

Not really, I'm just quoting what you said and pointing out how stupid
and idiotic it was.  Just like you do to others very frequently.  Quite
naturally you're backpedaling since you don't like that and now you'd
like to rewrite it all.

> I was proposing would not "stop" people from logging in as root in the
> way you describe, you're clearly a long way off the mark. So drop it.

I see it a little differently as in I read exactly what you wrote and
interpreted it accurately.  Then I simply read it back to you.  The
inaccuracies are yours.  We have a difference of opinion as we usually
do, and as usual you're the one that blows off at the mouth at folks
very rudely and then doesn't want accountability for that.  Where in the
world did you ever get the dumb idea that you have a carte blanc to be a
continuously brown nosing asshole?  I suggest you revise your manners,
and then maybe you won't get spanked.  But of course I don't really
expect you to entertain that suggestion; you're not going to "drop it"
because your bruised ego won't let you.


LX


-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

Yep, I knew one was definitely coming back.

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 03:33, Adam Williamson wrote:
>  and then maybe you won't get spanked.  But of course I don't really
> 
> I don't see me getting spanked by anyone but you. Now where does that
> imply the problem lies?

Same place it always was with you being the brown nosing asshole you've
always been.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Levi Ramsey]

On Tue Aug 05 13:02 +0200, Buchan Milne wrote:
> FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> > Le mar 05/08/2003 à 02:56, Levi Ramsey a écrit :
> >
> >
> >>I've been thinking that maybe a DrakSudo module in DrakX might be useful
> >>as well, to help get a working sudoers configuration.  With a proper
> >>sudo setup, root login is truly unnecessary for a large percentage of
> >>administrative tasks.  If this could be task-based, even better.
> >
> > good idea, very good idea, a must have.
> >
> 
> A good default config would also help ... maybe we should start
> collecting some on the wiki?

I'm not necessarily sure that the default sudo configuration should be
anything but totally locked down.  Maybe the most reasonable default is
something like:
%wheel  ALL=(ALL)   ALL
which would require a password to attain all root privileges, but only
if you're in group wheel.  Couple this with a place (near the end of the
installer?  It's been a long time since I last used the installer...)
where an "administrative alias" can be specified, which would simply
place the selected user(s) into the wheel group, and I think you've got
a winner.

-- 
Levi Ramsey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly.
Currently playing: Rush - Moving Pictures - YYZ
Linux 2.4.21-3mdk
 09:12:00 up 18:30,  5 users,  load average: 0.11, 0.09, 0.05

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Greg Meyer]

On Tuesday 05 August 2003 07:24 pm, Greg Meyer wrote:
> On Monday 04 August 2003 02:11 pm, Buchan Milne wrote:

> > Can someone tell me what the problem is, something besides

>
> Here is my list:
>
> No clock
> No hostname display
> Cannot customize graphic
> I don't like the way it looks
> When I click reboot I just get a blank screen with a back button and an
> okay button that does not work.

I forgot that you cannot focus a particular user.
-- 
/g

"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 06:16, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

> Not really, I'm just quoting what you said and pointing out how stupid
> and idiotic it was.  Just like you do to others very frequently.  Quite

It was, IN YOUR OPINION.

> naturally you're backpedaling since you don't like that and now you'd
> like to rewrite it all.
> 
> > I was proposing would not "stop" people from logging in as root in the
> > way you describe, you're clearly a long way off the mark. So drop it.
> 
> I see it a little differently as in I read exactly what you wrote and
> interpreted it accurately.  Then I simply read it back to you.  The

accurately, IN YOUR OPINION.

> inaccuracies are yours.  We have a difference of opinion as we usually
> do, and as usual you're the one that blows off at the mouth at folks
> very rudely and then doesn't want accountability for that.  Where in the

Pot. Kettle. Black.

> world did you ever get the dumb idea that you have a carte blanc to be a
> continuously brown nosing asshole?  I suggest you revise your manners,
> and then maybe you won't get spanked.  But of course I don't really

I don't see me getting spanked by anyone but you. Now where does that
imply the problem lies?
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[danny]

On 5 Aug 2003, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

> Yep, I knew one was definitely coming back.
> 
> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 03:33, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >  and then maybe you won't get spanked.  But of course I don't really
> > 
> > I don't see me getting spanked by anyone but you. Now where does that
> > imply the problem lies?
> 
> Same place it always was with you being the brown nosing asshole you've
> always been.

Listen guys, you can fight all the way you want, but Lyvim, try to use 
some grown-up language, preferably with arguments. Just swearing and 
shouting doesn't help to get your points across.

d.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Greg Meyer]

On Monday 04 August 2003 02:11 pm, Buchan Milne wrote:
> All the configuration tools work. Sure, you might want to know that it's
> not the standard kdm, but no-one was purposely hiding this from you ...

But it wasn't advertised either.

> Can someone tell me what the problem is, something besides
> 1)I can't log in as root (see above)
> 2)I don't want to see all the users (see above)
> 3)mdkkdm doesn't follow configuration in KDE control Center (see above)
> 4)mdkkdm doesn't follow configuration in Mandrake Control Center (see
> above)

Here is my list:

No clock
No hostname display
Cannot customize graphic
I don't like the way it looks
When I click reboot I just get a blank screen with a back button and an okay 
button that does not work.
-- 
/g

"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> Le mar 05/08/2003 à 02:56, Levi Ramsey a écrit :
>
>
>>I've been thinking that maybe a DrakSudo module in DrakX might be useful
>>as well, to help get a working sudoers configuration.  With a proper
>>sudo setup, root login is truly unnecessary for a large percentage of
>>administrative tasks.  If this could be task-based, even better.
>
> good idea, very good idea, a must have.
>

A good default config would also help ... maybe we should start
collecting some on the wiki?

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/L47QrJK6UGDSBKcRArZMAKCKPq9Qs4dIeG4DHV2qmnsBBxg0IwCgm/J+
ze968oozpKqnETZRaPjTG78=
=HLy/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[w9ya]

On Monday 04 August 2003 08:33 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 08:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:
> > > And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root
> > > You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would
> > > not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
> >
> > Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
> > every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
> > it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.
>
> Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the consequences.
> After that, if they still exercise their freedom of choice and log in as
> root, it is NONE of your damn business.
>
> LX

Well yes and no. If I am a system administrator it *is* my business. I will 
certainly have to clean up any "mess" a user may make at the very least. If I 
am the system administrator and want to run as root, well then that is 
certainly only my business up until I mess up, have to clean up *AND* mess up 
someone else's files like for instance the ones that use to be owned by my 
boss.

As in most things in life having a choice to protect myself from myself or 
decide not to do so should ideally be mine.

i.e. Neither a straight up or down on this issue is indicated, as it is very 
much situationally dependant.

Bob 

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Levi Ramsey]

On Mon Aug 04 12:13 +0200, Buchan Milne wrote:
> Until we have a "best practices for administrative accounts" or similar
> document which the user will easily find (win2k3 has a document like
> this) which suggests never logging in as root etc etc (win2k3 suggests
> that you should never log in as Domain Admin, you should change the
> default "Administrator" account username, and disable the "Schema Admin"
> group on the Domain Controller), I don't think it is wise to make it
> easy to log in as root.

I've been thinking that maybe a DrakSudo module in DrakX might be useful
as well, to help get a working sudoers configuration.  With a proper
sudo setup, root login is truly unnecessary for a large percentage of
administrative tasks.  If this could be task-based, even better.

-- 
Levi Ramsey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly.
Currently playing: Rush - Moving Pictures - YYZ
Linux 2.4.21-3mdk
 22:48:01 up  8:06,  5 users,  load average: 0.10, 0.03, 0.00

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Leon Brooks]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:33, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the
> consequences. After that, if they still exercise their freedom of
> choice and log in as root, it is NONE of your damn business.

That's what the this-is-naughty splash does, no? And doesn't it have a 
"never show me this again" checkbox? Perhaps we should add a "display 
root on the login user list" checkbox as well.

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Ken Thompson]

On Monday 04 August 2003 09:20 am, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ken Thompson wrote:
> > Logging in as root is really not the issue, being able to type the
> > name/password pair of any user of my choice is the issue.
> > As has been mentioned, with many users, which I don't have, the icon
>
> list is
>
> > too big to be comfortable.  So, what I'm saying is simply this, leave the
> > text box for user name and password input there. Make it possible to
>
> type in
>
> > the name/password pair of CHOICE and be able to log in as what ever
>
> user you
>
> > choose. As it is now, the only login choice is the users shown with
>
> icons and
>
> > no way to type in a username/password pair .
>
> # draksec #(or mcc->security->Draksec)
> Click the "System options" tab, change the spinbutton labelled "List
> users on display managers" to "no", logout, then CTRL-ALT-BKSP.
>
> Do I need to send a screenshot???
>
> Regards,
> Buchan
Nope, I ain't stooopid..
OK, this is exactly what I want.. Thanks
**

-- 
Ken Thompson -- WA7SYR
Payette, Idaho

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 18:04, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:27, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 14:33, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 08:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root
> > > > > You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would
> > > > > not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
> > > > 
> > > > Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
> > > > every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
> > > > it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.
> > > 
> > > Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the consequences. 
> > > After that, if they still exercise their freedom of choice and log in as
> > > root, it is NONE of your damn business.
> > 
> > Read Robert Martin's proposal again. What he is proposing is exactly
> > that we stop telling them the consequences.
> 
> I'm not interested in his speech, I'm interested in yours.  When you say
> 
> "stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
>  it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's."
> 
> then you've got a major problem.  It's not your job to stop everybody or
> anybody from doing anything that they freely choose to do with their own
> software and hardware unless you're FBI, CIA, military, or law
> enforcement.  This aint none of that and as far as I know you're not his
> momma.  He's said his piece, you've said your piece, and now it's time
> for you to shut up and let him do whatever the hell he wants to do; like
> I said, it's no longer any of your business.

I think you're placing entirely too much emphasis on the choice of words
I make in casual email. Given that it's clear the existing setup doesn't
"stop" people from logging in as root in the way you describe, and what
I was proposing would not "stop" people from logging in as root in the
way you describe, you're clearly a long way off the mark. So drop it.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Rob wrote:
> On Monday 04 August 2003 12:32, Buchan Milne wrote:

> Having used the KDE control center to change login manager settings as
long as
> we've been running KDE, being that the login manager still appeared to
be a
> Qt app and knowing Mandrake's odd penchant for using Gtk for
everything, and
> being that the KDE login manager control module was still there acting
as it
> ever did, what (other than joining the cooker list after downloading the
> first beta of the next version and happening onto a thread about display
> managers) would have led one to realize the login manager was a new
Mandrake
> thing rather than a KDE 3.1 thing?  Will I need to rpm -qa | grep mdk.
after
> each update to see what else has silently been replaced by an in-house
app?
> Those are the questions I would want to condense into a bug report.

I don't see what the problem is. I just tested this on a 9.1 box, I did
KDE Control Center->System->Login Manager->Users, set "Show users" to
"none", hit "Apply", restarted the display manager, and got a mdkkdm
that looks like this (excuse my ascii art)

++
||
|  Enter Login:  |
|   ___  |
|  |___| |
||
|  Enter password:   |
|   ___  |
|  |___| |
||
|   Session Type |
|   ___  |
|  |_KDE\|/| |
| __   __   __   |
||Reboot| |_Halt_| |_Login|  |
||
=+

(is someone *really* wants a screenshot, I will make one ...)

Of course, this is exactly the same as you would get if you set it via
msec/draksec.

All the configuration tools work. Sure, you might want to know that it's
not the standard kdm, but no-one was purposely hiding this from you ...

Can someone tell me what the problem is, something besides
1)I can't log in as root (see above)
2)I don't want to see all the users (see above)
3)mdkkdm doesn't follow configuration in KDE control Center (see above)
4)mdkkdm doesn't follow configuration in Mandrake Control Center (see above)

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LqG3rJK6UGDSBKcRAqGfAKDCq3WGHIvDMS1fyEdKijbdARlNRgCfTfhc
04a87ARotwWDIbjJ+pDtFwA=
=e84Z
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Rob]

On Monday 04 August 2003 12:32, Buchan Milne wrote:
> The only possible bug report for your experience is possibly requesting
> a default to kdebase-kdm instead of mdkkdm. All your other issues are
> addressed by tools made available to you for that purpose, you just
> didn't use them ...

I was thinking more along the lines of "how on earth was I even supposed to 
know there was such a thing as mdkkdm for me to get rid of?"  I just double 
checked the 9.1 new features list and there's definitely no mention of "new 
improved login manager".  

Having used the KDE control center to change login manager settings as long as 
we've been running KDE, being that the login manager still appeared to be a 
Qt app and knowing Mandrake's odd penchant for using Gtk for everything, and 
being that the KDE login manager control module was still there acting as it 
ever did, what (other than joining the cooker list after downloading the 
first beta of the next version and happening onto a thread about display 
managers) would have led one to realize the login manager was a new Mandrake 
thing rather than a KDE 3.1 thing?  Will I need to rpm -qa | grep mdk. after 
each update to see what else has silently been replaced by an in-house app?  
Those are the questions I would want to condense into a bug report.  

Rob

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:27, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 14:33, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 08:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:
> > > 
> > > > And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root
> > > > You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would
> > > > not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
> > > 
> > > Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
> > > every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
> > > it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.
> > 
> > Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the consequences. 
> > After that, if they still exercise their freedom of choice and log in as
> > root, it is NONE of your damn business.
> 
> Read Robert Martin's proposal again. What he is proposing is exactly
> that we stop telling them the consequences.

I'm not interested in his speech, I'm interested in yours.  When you say

"stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
 it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's."

then you've got a major problem.  It's not your job to stop everybody or
anybody from doing anything that they freely choose to do with their own
software and hardware unless you're FBI, CIA, military, or law
enforcement.  This aint none of that and as far as I know you're not his
momma.  He's said his piece, you've said your piece, and now it's time
for you to shut up and let him do whatever the hell he wants to do; like
I said, it's no longer any of your business.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:53, Frederic Crozat wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:38:18 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:51, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> >> Am Montag, 4. August 2003 16:06 schrieb Lyvim Xaphir:
> >> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> >> > If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> >> > uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> >> > mdkkdm will be good for advertising.
> >> 
> >> WTF? Choose kdm or gdm, but stop these pointless complaining. If you can't 
> >> file a bug.
> >> 
> >> Steffen
> >> 
> > 
> > We've already chosen and the conversation is on topic.  And if there was
> > a bug report possible for list nazi assholes I would certainly file it.
> 
> You've just earn 1(one) Godwin point (tm) (c) :
> 
> __8<__
> | |
> |1 Godwin Point   |
> |_|
> 
> To take your price, use a graver and a hammer, and cut it out following 
> dotted lines directly on your screen..
> 
> Thanks for your participation.
> 
> More info on Godwin point : 
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

Wow, thanks.  I feel like I won the lottery or something.  Maybe I can
get in the Guiness book of world records and make it to 50 Godwin Points
in the same thread, eh? >B->

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:53, Frederic Crozat wrote:

> More info on Godwin point : 
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

Ahhh, it warms my heart to see people starting to cite Wikipedia :).
Good article, that.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Rob]

On Saturday 02 August 2003 07:30, Buchan Milne wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Aug 2003, Joe Baker wrote:
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> Sure you can. Mandrake Control Center->Hardware->Display Manager

No wonder I'd never seen that setting before.  Shouldn't that be under System 
rather than Hardware?

I feel kinda sheepish now because I've been blaming the KDE guys for the lousy 
login manager in Mandrake 9.1... thought they'd tried to tart up kdm for some 
reason, never understood why when I changed my kdm settings in KDE Control 
Center the changes never seemed to take.  I've had about 10 users ask me why 
they couldn't just type their username anymore, but instead have to scroll 
through the list of ~130 NIS users and then click... at least once a day in 
the data processing room you hear "(typetypetype)... ARRGH". Now at least I 
know how to fix it, but shame that I'll have to do it on all the 9.1 boxes 
I've already deployed and there's no apparent way to set up a package 
selection floppy to make it use kdm so I'll have to manually change it on all 
the new boxes going forward.

Now I just have to figure out how to put that into a bug report.

Rob

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:20, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Ken Thompson wrote:
> > Logging in as root is really not the issue, being able to type the
> > name/password pair of any user of my choice is the issue.
> > As has been mentioned, with many users, which I don't have, the icon
> list is
> > too big to be comfortable.  So, what I'm saying is simply this, leave the
> > text box for user name and password input there. Make it possible to
> type in
> > the name/password pair of CHOICE and be able to log in as what ever
> user you
> > choose. As it is now, the only login choice is the users shown with
> icons and
> > no way to type in a username/password pair .
> 
> # draksec #(or mcc->security->Draksec)
> Click the "System options" tab, change the spinbutton labelled "List
> users on display managers" to "no", logout, then CTRL-ALT-BKSP.
> 
> Do I need to send a screenshot???
> 
> Regards,
> Buchan
> - --


The fact that you are now asking that question raises other questions
about the usefulness of mdkkdm as compared to kdm or gdm.

>

;-))

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
*Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN*

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Rob wrote:
> On Saturday 02 August 2003 07:30, Buchan Milne wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 1 Aug 2003, Joe Baker wrote:
>>
>>>Can we switch to using gdm.
>>
>>Sure you can. Mandrake Control Center->Hardware->Display Manager
>
>
> No wonder I'd never seen that setting before.  Shouldn't that be under
System
> rather than Hardware?
>

It was thought it was better to place it near the only other X-related
tool, XFdrake.

> I feel kinda sheepish now because I've been blaming the KDE guys for
the lousy
> login manager in Mandrake 9.1... thought they'd tried to tart up kdm
for some
> reason, never understood why when I changed my kdm settings in KDE
Control
> Center the changes never seemed to take.  I've had about 10 users ask
me why
> they couldn't just type their username anymore, but instead have to
scroll
> through the list of ~130 NIS users and then click... at least once a
day in
> the data processing room you hear "(typetypetype)... ARRGH".

Two things:
1)You can type in the icon list, and it will get to the first name that
matches the few letters you type
2)You can change the behaviour of mdkkdm.

> Now at least I
> know how to fix it, but shame that I'll have to do it on all the 9.1
boxes

# draksec
set your options
# for i in "host1 host2 host3";do scp /etc/security/msec/level.local
$i:/etc/security/msec

(but this would be much cooler if you could store msec settings in LDAP,
don't you think?).

> I've already deployed and there's no apparent way to set up a package
> selection floppy to make it use kdm so I'll have to manually change it
on all
> the new boxes going forward.

There is. Add kdebase-kdm and remove mdkkdm.

>
> Now I just have to figure out how to put that into a bug report.

The only possible bug report for your experience is possibly requesting
a default to kdebase-kdm instead of mdkkdm. All your other issues are
addressed by tools made available to you for that purpose, you just
didn't use them ...

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD4DBQE/LoqErJK6UGDSBKcRAlZXAJ4llsaoiMpY1SHSmIm7UhWW9gB0dQCUCr+l
/eEoQKXAuJItzYMWrx9jSw==
=vous
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:11, Ken Thompson wrote:

> Logging in as root is really not the issue, being able to type the 
> name/password pair of any user of my choice is the issue.
> As has been mentioned, with many users, which I don't have, the icon list is 
> too big to be comfortable.  So, what I'm saying is simply this, leave the 
> text box for user name and password input there. Make it possible to type in 
> the name/password pair of CHOICE and be able to log in as what ever user you 
> choose. As it is now, the only login choice is the users shown with icons and 
> no way to type in a username/password pair .
> If security is in question, then simply configure mdkkdm to not show any user 
> icons requiring the person logging in to know the username/password pair in 
> order to log in by default and then let the owner of the box make any changes 
> he/she wants.

In other words install kdm or gdm. ;)

> 
> > So, if root login was possible by default with mdkkdm (you can easily do
> > this, although root will then appear in the icon list), would you then
> > not detest it?
> 
> No, I still feel it's an issue of choice, not of being able to log in as root. 
> In fact, I do have the root user showing as an icon and don't really care to 
> have it that way, it would be a bit more secure if all I needed to do was 
> type root in the username space and then the proper password..

Right.



> > Sounds like "insecure by default", which linux cannot afford to be now
> > that MS is actually working very hard on security.

> Not at all, this is NOT what I want or need.. It took me a long time to get 
> used to using the user account (I have been doing this for several years) and 
> I feel uncomfortable running with full root priv's like windows.
> All I'm saying is this: it's my system, warn me loud and long about possible 
> mistakes but don't try to take away my ability to either fix it or screw it 
> up. Take a look at history, DOS, pretty powerful, you were only limited by 
> your own knowledge.

Exactly correct.  The human animal learns by committing it's owm
mistakes.  You might also look at the history of the login managers; the
features of which all have an evolutionary history, resultant from
people using them from day to day.  You yourself are now discovering the
differences between an evolved login interface and a new one with
comparatively no evolutionary history.


> Windows 3.1, less power, you had to hunt for common utilities or revert to the 
> command window.
> Windows 95, less personal usability - more wizard type stuff but still had the 
> "Windows Explorer" (file manager).
> Windows 98 pretty much the same as 95. Internet Explorer 4.0 shows up with 
> "Single Click" navigation enabled by default. Version 5.0 reverts to double 
> click.
> Now along comes ME, windows explorer opens "My Documents" not the file 
> manager.
> Windows 2000/XP same.. And all in the name of convenience and usability.. 
> Phooy!

Exactly.  2000/XP is like a mythical Pan playing a flute which has the
masses of developers mesmerized with visions of dollar signs.  They will
follow Pan anywhere, even over the edge of the cliff.

> I see mdk headed the same way so I make a bit of a fuss from time to time.
> > Until we have a "best practices for administrative accounts" or similar
> > document which the user will easily find (win2k3 has a document like
> > this) which suggests never logging in as root etc etc (win2k3 suggests
> > that you should never log in as Domain Admin, you should change the
> > default "Administrator" account username, and disable the "Schema Admin"
> > group on the Domain Controller), I don't think it is wise to make it
> > easy to log in as root.
> Not easy in the sense of "by default" but easy in the sense of having it 
> available if needed !

Bingo.


> > Regards,
> > Buchan
> >
> It's about time windows got some security sense ..
> I'm not really trying to be a pain, just trying to give my feelings on this 
> subject. 
> I'm not an expert guru but I have been using Linux since 1996 and Mandrake 
> since 1999 so I am aware of the security issues involved in running as root..

Not only that but even in the case of a person who doesn't know squat
and is as dumb as a doornail, he would still have the right to choose
for himself.  You should'nt be looking for your momma in the MDK distro
or on the cooker list.  If you ever need your momma, all you got to do
is go home.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frederic Crozat]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:38:18 -0400, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:51, Steffen Barszus wrote:
>> Am Montag, 4. August 2003 16:06 schrieb Lyvim Xaphir:
>> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
>> > If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
>> > uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
>> > mdkkdm will be good for advertising.
>> 
>> WTF? Choose kdm or gdm, but stop these pointless complaining. If you can't 
>> file a bug.
>> 
>> Steffen
>> 
> 
> We've already chosen and the conversation is on topic.  And if there was
> a bug report possible for list nazi assholes I would certainly file it.

You've just earn 1(one) Godwin point (tm) (c) :

__8<__
| |
|1 Godwin Point   |
|_|

To take your price, use a graver and a hammer, and cut it out following 
dotted lines directly on your screen..

Thanks for your participation.

More info on Godwin point : 
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

-- 
Frederic Crozat
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:51, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> Am Montag, 4. August 2003 16:06 schrieb Lyvim Xaphir:
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> > If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> > uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> > mdkkdm will be good for advertising.
> 
> WTF? Choose kdm or gdm, but stop these pointless complaining. If you can't 
> file a bug.
> 
> Steffen
> 

We've already chosen and the conversation is on topic.  And if there was
a bug report possible for list nazi assholes I would certainly file it.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Rob wrote:
> On Monday 04 August 2003 11:11, Ken Thompson wrote:
>
>>If security is in question, then simply configure mdkkdm to not show any
>>user icons requiring the person logging in to know the username/password
>
>
> Actually, I had a client a few years ago who was a bank, and some bank
> examiners came in and dinged them because their NT 4 workstations
displayed
> the userid of the last successfully logged in user in the login
dialog.  We
> had to do some kind of registry hack or download some freeware or
something
> to disable that behavior.

Well, you can actualyl do it with a domain group policy or similar in a
Windows NT domain. You can even do it with a samba domain, but we had
some issues with it (some policy settings affected some other applications).

> Bank examiners (and these days, probably any other
> security auditor) would flip their lids at the notion of a login
manager that
> not only displays the last logged in user, but every user in the system.
>
> On all of the pre-9.1 machines I've deployed in bank environments,
I've turned
> off kdm's "show users as little icons" option in KDE control center
(on those
> machines that need X running in the first place) but as I mentioned
> previously, I wondered why that wasn't working in 9.1 and that's probably
> slowed down our deployment a little as a result.

It does work in 9.0, 9.1 etc etc etc (I have tested it on them all). All
you need is:

# cat /etc/security/msec/level.local

allow_user_list (no)
#

And you won't get any user lists. We deploy settings via an rpm, so we
have a whole bunch of files configured the way we want them, and this is
one we do deploy, with our own settings. You can create them with
draksec if you prefer a GUI.

Now, Windows 2000 can deploy these kinds of settings via Active
Directory as Group Policy Objects. After seeing the potential this has,
I wondered what potential storing msec settings in ldap has.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LocNrJK6UGDSBKcRAmLUAJ9sv2LD4HlWG/10XZbJ36NZ32m7xQCgjvpE
GK7CX1BMgDH8S3DImxiX97A=
=lnzM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Rob]

On Monday 04 August 2003 11:11, Ken Thompson wrote:
> If security is in question, then simply configure mdkkdm to not show any
> user icons requiring the person logging in to know the username/password

Actually, I had a client a few years ago who was a bank, and some bank 
examiners came in and dinged them because their NT 4 workstations displayed 
the userid of the last successfully logged in user in the login dialog.  We 
had to do some kind of registry hack or download some freeware or something 
to disable that behavior.  Bank examiners (and these days, probably any other 
security auditor) would flip their lids at the notion of a login manager that 
not only displays the last logged in user, but every user in the system.  

On all of the pre-9.1 machines I've deployed in bank environments, I've turned 
off kdm's "show users as little icons" option in KDE control center (on those 
machines that need X running in the first place) but as I mentioned 
previously, I wondered why that wasn't working in 9.1 and that's probably 
slowed down our deployment a little as a result.

Rob

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ken Thompson wrote:
> Logging in as root is really not the issue, being able to type the
> name/password pair of any user of my choice is the issue.
> As has been mentioned, with many users, which I don't have, the icon
list is
> too big to be comfortable.  So, what I'm saying is simply this, leave the
> text box for user name and password input there. Make it possible to
type in
> the name/password pair of CHOICE and be able to log in as what ever
user you
> choose. As it is now, the only login choice is the users shown with
icons and
> no way to type in a username/password pair .

# draksec #(or mcc->security->Draksec)
Click the "System options" tab, change the spinbutton labelled "List
users on display managers" to "no", logout, then CTRL-ALT-BKSP.

Do I need to send a screenshot???

Regards,
Buchan
- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LnnMrJK6UGDSBKcRAoJlAKCDRJDR3rObZi1qLpNYepngYnoj1wCfeYZk
d5xTNWWxDmffubmR5vxyyOQ=
=mRc7
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:43, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> 
> > If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> > uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> > mdkkdm will be good for advertising.
> 
> You can uninstall mdkkdm, and since just before 9.1 until now this has
> always been the case. The recent problems was due to some packages
> (kdebase-kdm, kdebase-kdm-config-file) in the kdebase package not having
> made the upload, and the only package that could be installed that
> satisfied the requirements was mdkkdm.
> 
> $rpm -qRp kdebase-3.1.3-4mdk.i586.rpm |grep kdm
> kdm
> kdebase-kdm-config-file
> 
> You can also check the cvs diff of the kdebase spec file:
> http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/kdebase/kdebase.spec.diff?r1=1.555&r2=1.556&f=h
> 
> As you will see, no changes in requires.
> 
> So, please check facts before you assume things.

Thanks for the enlightenment.



BTW, that's one hell of a sig.  whew.

LX


> 
> - --
> |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
> Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
> Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
> Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
> GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
> 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQE/LnEorJK6UGDSBKcRAvQvAJ4z6etaX2OLNGaykUVJqbFQWSg3XACdHZzL
> c4Dz0+i79hBl2TC1epig3Uo=
> =wO3R
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> **
> Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
> e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
> **
-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 14:33, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 08:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:
> > 
> > > And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root
> > > You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would
> > > not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
> > 
> > Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
> > every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
> > it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.
> 
> Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the consequences. 
> After that, if they still exercise their freedom of choice and log in as
> root, it is NONE of your damn business.

Read Robert Martin's proposal again. What he is proposing is exactly
that we stop telling them the consequences.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> Le lun 04/08/2003 à 03:15, Ken Thompson a écrit :
> > I think something along this line is what I was trying to get accross.. I 
> > wasn't at all emotional, just pointing out that many others don't like mdkkdm 
> > and that I personally detest it. NO, the reason I detest it is not because I 
> > can't log in as root automatically, I very seldom log in as root, BUT I want 
> > the choice. There are times when logging in as root can make things much 
> > simpler than trying to remember the CLI command for a given program and 
> > having to Ctrl-Alt-F1, log in as root, init 3 and startx is way too much 
> > trouble..  Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user 
> > I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the 
> > flexibility of Linux..
> 
> use su.
> 
> But it's a good point. I set up several workstation and /home is an NFS
> share. So as during isntall I can't specify NFS share, I have to log
> with the user with a local account, and the only one is ... root. Or
> else I have to manually edit fstab or launch diskdrake in console ...


The lack of choice in the matter is what pisses people off.  It's the
whole reason why there have been other problems elsewhere, like the
rpmdrake fiasco.

If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
mdkkdm will be good for advertising.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
*Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN*

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le lun 04/08/2003 à 14:06, Lyvim Xaphir a écrit :
> The lack of choice in the matter is what pisses people off.  It's the
> whole reason why there have been other problems elsewhere, like the
> rpmdrake fiasco.

200% agree with :
"
- this say I need this, I do it install it ?
- go to rpmdrake ... no MCC -> Software -> Install software and look for
this package
- can't find !!!
- check if you can find it in Remove software ( and cross your fingers
hoping it will not deinstall it )
"

> If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> mdkkdm will be good for advertising.

the inabilty to deinstall mdkdm is weird.
mdkdm seems to rely a lot on kdm ( config file ) so you have a direct
dependance between them. Mdk tools should be as neutral as possible.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

> If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> mdkkdm will be good for advertising.

You can uninstall mdkkdm, and since just before 9.1 until now this has
always been the case. The recent problems was due to some packages
(kdebase-kdm, kdebase-kdm-config-file) in the kdebase package not having
made the upload, and the only package that could be installed that
satisfied the requirements was mdkkdm.

$rpm -qRp kdebase-3.1.3-4mdk.i586.rpm |grep kdm
kdm
kdebase-kdm-config-file

You can also check the cvs diff of the kdebase spec file:
http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/kdebase/kdebase.spec.diff?r1=1.555&r2=1.556&f=h

As you will see, no changes in requires.

So, please check facts before you assume things.

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LnEorJK6UGDSBKcRAvQvAJ4z6etaX2OLNGaykUVJqbFQWSg3XACdHZzL
c4Dz0+i79hBl2TC1epig3Uo=
=wO3R
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Ken Thompson]

On Monday 04 August 2003 04:13 am, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ken Thompson wrote:
> > On Sunday 03 August 2003 06:20 pm, Robert L Martin wrote:
> >
> > I think something along this line is what I was trying to get accross.. I
> > wasn't at all emotional, just pointing out that many others don't like
>
> mdkkdm
>
> > and that I personally detest it. NO, the reason I detest it is not
>
> because I
>
> > can't log in as root automatically, I very seldom log in as root, BUT
>
> I want
>
> > the choice.
>
> The choice to log in as root? But you just said that was *not* the
> reason you didn't like it.
"Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user 
 I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the 
 ^^
 flexibility of Linux.."

Logging in as root is really not the issue, being able to type the 
name/password pair of any user of my choice is the issue.
As has been mentioned, with many users, which I don't have, the icon list is 
too big to be comfortable.  So, what I'm saying is simply this, leave the 
text box for user name and password input there. Make it possible to type in 
the name/password pair of CHOICE and be able to log in as what ever user you 
choose. As it is now, the only login choice is the users shown with icons and 
no way to type in a username/password pair .
If security is in question, then simply configure mdkkdm to not show any user 
icons requiring the person logging in to know the username/password pair in 
order to log in by default and then let the owner of the box make any changes 
he/she wants.

> So, if root login was possible by default with mdkkdm (you can easily do
> this, although root will then appear in the icon list), would you then
> not detest it?

No, I still feel it's an issue of choice, not of being able to log in as root. 
In fact, I do have the root user showing as an icon and don't really care to 
have it that way, it would be a bit more secure if all I needed to do was 
type root in the username space and then the proper password..

> > There are times when logging in as root can make things much
> > simpler than trying to remember the CLI command for a given program and
> > having to Ctrl-Alt-F1, log in as root, init 3 and startx is way too much
> > trouble..
>
> Well, maybe you should list the programs you want to be able to run as
> root from a menu, and they can be fixed to run via kdesu or similar. I
> assume you weren't wanting to run OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, etc etc as
> root. The programs that you can run as root directly from the menu on a
> default installation are:
> - -konqueror
> - -konsole
> - -most non-desktop entries in the Configuration sub-menu, except for some
> of those in Configuration->Other
I agree, and 99.9% of the time this is exactly the way I do it.
> If thet tool you want to run as root is not configured as such by
> default, all you have to do (in KDE) is drag and drop the menu entry to
> your desktop (or the quick-start bar),
> right-click->properties->execute->"Run as different user"->root.
I also use this. As mentioned above, the issue is not one of logging in as 
root, or even using root priv's, it's one of choice, to be able to log in as 
any user I choose at any time I choose, including root..
> > Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user
> > I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the
> > flexibility of Linux..
>
> Sounds like "insecure by default", which linux cannot afford to be now
> that MS is actually working very hard on security.
Not at all, this is NOT what I want or need.. It took me a long time to get 
used to using the user account (I have been doing this for several years) and 
I feel uncomfortable running with full root priv's like windows.
All I'm saying is this: it's my system, warn me loud and long about possible 
mistakes but don't try to take away my ability to either fix it or screw it 
up. Take a look at history, DOS, pretty powerful, you were only limited by 
your own knowledge.
Windows 3.1, less power, you had to hunt for common utilities or revert to the 
command window.
Windows 95, less personal usability - more wizard type stuff but still had the 
"Windows Explorer" (file manager).
Windows 98 pretty much the same as 95. Internet Explorer 4.0 shows up with 
"Single Click" navigation enabled by default. Version 5.0 reverts to double 
click.
Now along comes ME, windows explorer opens "My Documents" not the file 
manager.
Windows 2000/XP same.. And all in the name of convenience and usability.. 
Phooy!
I see mdk headed the same way so I make a bit of a fuss from time to time.
> Until we have a "best practices for administrative accounts" or similar
> document which the user will easily find (win2k3 has a document like
> this) which suggests never logging in as root etc etc (win2k3 suggests
> that you should never log in as Domain Admin, you should change

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Lyvim Xaphir]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 08:26, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:
> 
> > And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root
> > You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would
> > not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
> 
> Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
> every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
> it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.

Your responsibility ends exactly after you tell them the consequences. 
After that, if they still exercise their freedom of choice and log in as
root, it is NONE of your damn business.

LX



-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
"Filter That, Bitch!" --Lanman, MDK Newbie List

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Steffen Barszus]

Am Montag, 4. August 2003 16:06 schrieb Lyvim Xaphir:
> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> If I want to run kdm, I don't want the system telling me I can't
> uninstall mdkkdm because some marketing psycho freak at Mandrake thinks
> mdkkdm will be good for advertising.

WTF? Choose kdm or gdm, but stop these pointless complaining. If you can't 
file a bug.

Steffen

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le lun 04/08/2003 à 11:34, Buchan Milne a écrit :
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> > Le dim 03/08/2003 à 19:53, Dave Cotton a écrit :
> >>So the problem for me, from the last time I updated and allowed mdkkdm,
> >>was that it defaulted to showing all the logins, a ridiculous situation
> >>on a machine with a large number of users. This machine has standard
> >>security level.
> >
> 
> Is the fact that you run a machine with a large number of users in
> standard security level not the ridiculous situation?

not really. It depens on the pb you are facing and your
needs/contraints.

> > IMHO when using NIS/LDAP/Samba auth, all dm should default too "no users
> > list"
> 
> Is it not better to default to msec 4 in any network auth setup? This
> gets you a few other features which may be useful (restrictions on su etc).

that's the pb, ... to many restriction on level 4 for me, and if I have
to customise the level ( and lost the config when I upgrade msec ) for
each machine it's a pain for me.

> IMHO, a good default sudo config would also help in these situations (ie
> allow member of adm group to 'sudo /sbin/service' with (without?) password.

When I installed the network I wasn't able to use correctly sudo. Now i
can use it well.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le lun 04/08/2003 à 11:29, Buchan Milne a écrit :
> Well, then you must be using LDAP or NIS, so you should put automount
> maps in LDAP or NIS, and drakauth should add nis/ldap to the automount
> line of /etc/nsswitch.conf (which I will try and look at today).
> 
> Then, you *never* have to worry about NFS mounts, they will be
> automatic. You see, instead of making it easy for a user to log in as
> root to do tasks, we must remove the necessity for them to do the tasks ...

I will have to see how to do this. I'm using an NIS network.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 01:20, Robert L Martin wrote:

> And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root You are a Bad and 
> Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would not enable auto log in for Root 
> like certain companies do)

Why? Logging into a GUI as root *is* bad and foul and we should take
every opportunity to stop people who have no reason to do it from doing
it. The problem is not just theirs, the problem is everybody's.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Dave Cotton]

On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 15:07, FACORAT Fabrice wrote:

> 
> IMHO when using NIS/LDAP/Samba auth, all dm should default too "no users
> list"

I have systems set up using LTSP, in a school there may be well over 200
users, but perhaps only 15 terminals are active at one time. IMHO too
many people are thinking just about desktop machines, not
multiuser/terminal based machines. Think "Roots" not root.
-- 
Dave Cotton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> Le dim 03/08/2003 à 19:53, Dave Cotton a écrit :
>
>>Just to show a non negative approach, I went into MCC and enabled mdkkdm
>>and it was installed, as I had kdm set up _not_ to show icons and to use
>>the last login, I must say mdkkdm picked up this config.

Well, mdkkdm should follow all configurations in
/usr/share/config/kdm/kdmrc that are valid (taking into account some
features which may not make sense I guess in some mdkkdm configurations).

>>So the problem for me, from the last time I updated and allowed mdkkdm,
>>was that it defaulted to showing all the logins, a ridiculous situation
>>on a machine with a large number of users. This machine has standard
>>security level.
>

Is the fact that you run a machine with a large number of users in
standard security level not the ridiculous situation?

> IMHO when using NIS/LDAP/Samba auth, all dm should default too "no users
> list"

Is it not better to default to msec 4 in any network auth setup? This
gets you a few other features which may be useful (restrictions on su etc).

IMHO, a good default sudo config would also help in these situations (ie
allow member of adm group to 'sudo /sbin/service' with (without?) password.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LkTPrJK6UGDSBKcRAnCrAJ0UZrAjQNm2642BKeWHls1dJacP9gCeLCw2
lSVekZJkTDZjxmbgEnYwkGg=
=oOBX
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> Le lun 04/08/2003 à 03:15, Ken Thompson a écrit :

> But it's a good point. I set up several workstation and /home is an NFS
> share. So as during isntall I can't specify NFS share, I have to log
> with the user with a local account, and the only one is ... root. Or
> else I have to manually edit fstab or launch diskdrake in console ...

Well, then you must be using LDAP or NIS, so you should put automount
maps in LDAP or NIS, and drakauth should add nis/ldap to the automount
line of /etc/nsswitch.conf (which I will try and look at today).

Then, you *never* have to worry about NFS mounts, they will be
automatic. You see, instead of making it easy for a user to log in as
root to do tasks, we must remove the necessity for them to do the tasks ...

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LkOLrJK6UGDSBKcRApldAJ0WgYvFYGVpJCqzHgacSXmvr7/59gCeLgQI
B7UpZI4bjHDWU6bZ2Kp31GI=
=rs8D
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le lun 04/08/2003 à 03:15, Ken Thompson a écrit :
> I think something along this line is what I was trying to get accross.. I 
> wasn't at all emotional, just pointing out that many others don't like mdkkdm 
> and that I personally detest it. NO, the reason I detest it is not because I 
> can't log in as root automatically, I very seldom log in as root, BUT I want 
> the choice. There are times when logging in as root can make things much 
> simpler than trying to remember the CLI command for a given program and 
> having to Ctrl-Alt-F1, log in as root, init 3 and startx is way too much 
> trouble..  Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user 
> I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the 
> flexibility of Linux..

use su.

But it's a good point. I set up several workstation and /home is an NFS
share. So as during isntall I can't specify NFS share, I have to log
with the user with a local account, and the only one is ... root. Or
else I have to manually edit fstab or launch diskdrake in console ...

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

FACORAT Fabrice wrote:
> Le dim 03/08/2003 à 17:41, Buchan Milne a écrit :
>
> I don't even want to look for it. I'd rather swith to gdm just for
> cosmetic reasons.
> IMHO, when the user select auth by NIS or LDAP or Samba, DrakX should
> disable list view by default.

Hmmm, maybe when using network auth, security level should default to
>=3, and user should not be prompted about security alert emails,
instead they should go to appropriate group (Domain Admins in Winbind,
adm or similar in NIS/LDAP?). Then user list would be disabled anyway,
but you would get other benefits by default.

> When you are using this kind of auth ,
> most of the time you have sevral users ( > 5 ) and for me 15, and having
> the fifteen users icons ... weird
>

You're complaining about 15?

$ getent passwd|awk -F: '{if ($3>500) print }'|wc -l
149


>
>
>>I actually still use mdkkdm on all my machines
>
>
> and me gdm. Beautifuler and this is important because the first things
> they see when clients/users see the computer is ... the dm. "Oh what a
> beautiful login, is it XP ? - No, it's linux. - That's very beautiful".
> And that's why they use KDE as their desktop. Gnome2 for 9.0/9.1 was not
> ready ( i.e several apps still gnome1, features missings, etc ... )
>

We make all our machines look similar, and it is too much mission to
make a gdm theme compared to just making a background and choosing
decent fonts. So, we use gdm in it's older mode if we use it, in which
case it looks no better than mdkkdm, and IMHO is a bit less usable.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LkLsrJK6UGDSBKcRAprJAJwIKoihAASavL5eVETHfYYveedtUACcCTUt
GI4ZOavQOaYstt8I/umrjIM=
=DlWs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le dim 03/08/2003 à 17:41, Buchan Milne a écrit :
> On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Ben Reser wrote:
> 
> > As far as I know mdkkdm doesn't let you type in a user name (I haven't
> > tried it in a long time).  That's the one thing that bugs me.  I prefer
> > to keep the list of users displayed down but there are some users that I
> > want to log in as from time to time (e.g. my test user).
> 
> Well, with mdkkdm you can have either one or the other, but not both. You 
> can get to user selections in the icon version by typing, but you can't 
> log in as a user not in the list.

I don't even want to look for it. I'd rather swith to gdm just for
cosmetic reasons.
IMHO, when the user select auth by NIS or LDAP or Samba, DrakX should
disable list view by default. When you are using this kind of auth ,
most of the time you have sevral users ( > 5 ) and for me 15, and having
the fifteen users icons ... weird


> I actually still use mdkkdm on all my machines

and me gdm. Beautifuler and this is important because the first things
they see when clients/users see the computer is ... the dm. "Oh what a
beautiful login, is it XP ? - No, it's linux. - That's very beautiful".
And that's why they use KDE as their desktop. Gnome2 for 9.0/9.1 was not
ready ( i.e several apps still gnome1, features missings, etc ... )


> , my biggest complaint is 
> the issue with the reboot dialog not showing the bootloader entries 
> (there's also the matter of the "Login" button not reacting to the enter 
> key after selecting a window manager), and my feature request is to have 
> something done so the "New session" option in the KDE menu works 
> out-the-box (ie by having /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers have reserve entries)
> 
> Regards,
> Buchan

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[FACORAT Fabrice]

Le dim 03/08/2003 à 19:53, Dave Cotton a écrit :

> Just to show a non negative approach, I went into MCC and enabled mdkkdm
> and it was installed, as I had kdm set up _not_ to show icons and to use
> the last login, I must say mdkkdm picked up this config.
> So the problem for me, from the last time I updated and allowed mdkkdm,
> was that it defaulted to showing all the logins, a ridiculous situation
> on a machine with a large number of users. This machine has standard
> security level. 

IMHO when using NIS/LDAP/Samba auth, all dm should default too "no users
list"

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ken Thompson wrote:
> On Sunday 03 August 2003 06:20 pm, Robert L Martin wrote:

> I think something along this line is what I was trying to get accross.. I
> wasn't at all emotional, just pointing out that many others don't like
mdkkdm
> and that I personally detest it. NO, the reason I detest it is not
because I
> can't log in as root automatically, I very seldom log in as root, BUT
I want
> the choice.

The choice to log in as root? But you just said that was *not* the
reason you didn't like it.

So, if root login was possible by default with mdkkdm (you can easily do
this, although root will then appear in the icon list), would you then
not detest it?

> There are times when logging in as root can make things much
> simpler than trying to remember the CLI command for a given program and
> having to Ctrl-Alt-F1, log in as root, init 3 and startx is way too much
> trouble..

Well, maybe you should list the programs you want to be able to run as
root from a menu, and they can be fixed to run via kdesu or similar. I
assume you weren't wanting to run OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, etc etc as
root. The programs that you can run as root directly from the menu on a
default installation are:
- -konqueror
- -konsole
- -most non-desktop entries in the Configuration sub-menu, except for some
of those in Configuration->Other

If thet tool you want to run as root is not configured as such by
default, all you have to do (in KDE) is drag and drop the menu entry to
your desktop (or the quick-start bar),
right-click->properties->execute->"Run as different user"->root.

> Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user
> I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the
> flexibility of Linux..

Sounds like "insecure by default", which linux cannot afford to be now
that MS is actually working very hard on security.

Until we have a "best practices for administrative accounts" or similar
document which the user will easily find (win2k3 has a document like
this) which suggests never logging in as root etc etc (win2k3 suggests
that you should never log in as Domain Admin, you should change the
default "Administrator" account username, and disable the "Schema Admin"
group on the Domain Controller), I don't think it is wise to make it
easy to log in as root.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/LjG6rJK6UGDSBKcRAv5FAJ4oCpds3PwRxp29EgHBSMebhWDkTQCeMMhY
c4s4XUhEz/QD2pXlAhFnlXo=
=uD8q
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Blindauer Emmanuel]

Le Sunday 03 August 2003 16:37, Ken Thompson a écrit :
> I hope Mandrake get's the hint, I see a lot of dislike for mdkkdm showing
> up here and on the experts list. I personally detest mdkddm!!!
> HEY Mandrake - Listen to your users this time around..
> At least give a choice during install, leave mdkkdm as default for the
> beginner if you want but give the experieced user the option of making a
> change.

I don't like the current mdkkdm, and I prefer kdm (but gdm is beautifuller).
But I understand too, that Mandrake need visibility, and providing a specific 
dm is an excellent idea to be a little "different". 
But, mdkkdm sucks :) Waht is needed is how to improve mdkkdm, not to choose a 
standard dm. If you don't like the curent dm, let's say what you want to 
have, and provide a design.
For my part, only removing the grey widget arround the lit of users, and 
moving reboot  move on the bottom will be a big improvment.
I 've got the sources, but the sources sucks too, xdm was first and all *dm 
are derivated; I don't have time to increase my Hack-value for this month.

Emmanuel

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Ken Thompson]

On Sunday 03 August 2003 06:20 pm, Robert L Martin wrote:
> Instead of emotional outbursts, please rather document the reasons you
> don't like mdkkdm, as others have done on the cooker wiki. Maybe the only
> reason you detest mdkkdm is that you can't log in as root by default, and
> if they change the default to be kdm, maybe they will disable root login
> there by default too (since it really is best to prevent this, and force
> users into good habits, although of course you can change this if you like
> your bad habits).
> ---
>- instead of trying to out handhold Gates why doesn't the login box have a
> Write-in box?? you know have the group of icons and then a box for other
> logins ie icons for Bob George Fred Barney JeanValjeanbut Root BOFH and
> Javair would need to type their login (and password)
>
> And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root You are
> a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would not enable
> auto log in for Root like certain companies do)
===
I think something along this line is what I was trying to get accross.. I 
wasn't at all emotional, just pointing out that many others don't like mdkkdm 
and that I personally detest it. NO, the reason I detest it is not because I 
can't log in as root automatically, I very seldom log in as root, BUT I want 
the choice. There are times when logging in as root can make things much 
simpler than trying to remember the CLI command for a given program and 
having to Ctrl-Alt-F1, log in as root, init 3 and startx is way too much 
trouble..  Simply being able to log out of KDE and relogin as what ever user 
I choose, root or otherwise, is in my opinion a better way to use the 
flexibility of Linux..
-- 
Ken Thompson -- WA7SYR
Payette, Idaho

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Dave Cotton]

On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 20:51, Todd Lyons wrote: 
> --BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE--
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Buchan Milne wanted us to know:
> 
> >Well, with mdkkdm you can have either one or the other, but not both. You 
> >can get to user selections in the icon version by typing, but you can't 
> >log in as a user not in the list.
> 
> Try setting your security level to 3.  It works for me and lets me type
> the username I want to login as.  And I am using mdkkdm I think.

Just to show a non negative approach, I went into MCC and enabled mdkkdm
and it was installed, as I had kdm set up _not_ to show icons and to use
the last login, I must say mdkkdm picked up this config.
So the problem for me, from the last time I updated and allowed mdkkdm,
was that it defaulted to showing all the logins, a ridiculous situation
on a machine with a large number of users. This machine has standard
security level. 
 
But, and there is always a but, when the reboot button is used it just
gives me a big empty space that appears to be for a list. Kdm allows me
to reboot directly with a test kernel.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Robert L Martin]

Instead of emotional outbursts, please rather document the reasons you 
don't like mdkkdm, as others have done on the cooker wiki. Maybe the only 
reason you detest mdkkdm is that you can't log in as root by default, and 
if they change the default to be kdm, maybe they will disable root login 
there by default too (since it really is best to prevent this, and force 
users into good habits, although of course you can change this if you like 
your bad habits).

instead of trying to out handhold Gates why doesn't the login box have a Write-in box??
you know have the group of icons and then a box for other logins ie
icons for Bob George Fred Barney JeanValjeanbut Root BOFH and Javair would need to type their login (and password)

And personally i would strip all of the "You are logged in as Root You are a Bad and Foul Person" dialogs from the distro. (now i would not enable auto log in for Root like certain companies do)

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Todd Lyons wrote:

> 
> >Well, with mdkkdm you can have either one or the other, but not both. You 
> >can get to user selections in the icon version by typing, but you can't 
> >log in as a user not in the list.
> 
> Try setting your security level to 3.  It works for me and lets me type
> the username I want to login as.  And I am using mdkkdm I think.
> 

Yes, that's what I have on my cooker box, but the point is that kdm allows 
you to have an icon list and a username field *at the same time*, whereas 
with mdkkdm you get either one or the other ...

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Todd Lyons]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Buchan Milne wanted us to know:

>Well, with mdkkdm you can have either one or the other, but not both. You 
>can get to user selections in the icon version by typing, but you can't 
>log in as a user not in the list.

Try setting your security level to 3.  It works for me and lets me type
the username I want to login as.  And I am using mdkkdm I think.
- -- 
Blue skies...   ToddPublic key: http://www.mrball.net/todd.asc
   $pi = 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105; 
   # from memory   --springgraph.pl
Linux kernel 2.4.19-24mdk   load average: 1.05, 1.18, 1.15
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: http://www.mrball.net/todd.asc

iD8DBQE/LVmuIBT1264ScBURAoH8AKCjAmOkbpB1ywMLvWO9vYeEjNy+XQCfc8O4
gp4hSGKRpC3rINEqXg2TEwo=
=j3Yt
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Ben Reser wrote:

> As far as I know mdkkdm doesn't let you type in a user name (I haven't
> tried it in a long time).  That's the one thing that bugs me.  I prefer
> to keep the list of users displayed down but there are some users that I
> want to log in as from time to time (e.g. my test user).

Well, with mdkkdm you can have either one or the other, but not both. You 
can get to user selections in the icon version by typing, but you can't 
log in as a user not in the list.

> 
> What I've never really understood is if they wanted to simplify the DM,
> why didn't they modify kdm to have such a mode, contribute it upstream
> to the KDE people, and then set it as default.  Anyone that doesn't like
> it can simply change the mode in kcontrol...  
> 

Well, I guess they could still. IMHO adding a GUI control to the config 
for kdm to enable/disable/configure XDMCP would be better.

> It would avoid a lot of the complaining that has happened, IMHO.  While
> I think mdkkdm is silly, I'm not demanding that they take it out.  I'm
> more than happy to change it after the install...

Well, I think the point we should persue is to either:
-have them address the sticking issues
-decide whether it may be better to default to kdm instead of mdkkdm

I think addding yet another choice to the installer is ridiculous, it's 
better to have sane defaults than excessive compulsory configuration 
steps.

I actually still use mdkkdm on all my machines, my biggest complaint is 
the issue with the reboot dialog not showing the bootloader entries 
(there's also the matter of the "Login" button not reacting to the enter 
key after selecting a window manager), and my feature request is to have 
something done so the "New session" option in the KDE menu works 
out-the-box (ie by having /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers have reserve entries)

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Ben Reser]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 04:45:04PM +0200, Buchan Milne wrote:
> Instead of emotional outbursts, please rather document the reasons you 
> don't like mdkkdm, as others have done on the cooker wiki. Maybe the only 
> reason you detest mdkkdm is that you can't log in as root by default, and 
> if they change the default to be kdm, maybe they will disable root login 
> there by default too (since it really is best to prevent this, and force 
> users into good habits, although of course you can change this if you like 
> your bad habits).

As far as I know mdkkdm doesn't let you type in a user name (I haven't
tried it in a long time).  That's the one thing that bugs me.  I prefer
to keep the list of users displayed down but there are some users that I
want to log in as from time to time (e.g. my test user).

What I've never really understood is if they wanted to simplify the DM,
why didn't they modify kdm to have such a mode, contribute it upstream
to the KDE people, and then set it as default.  Anyone that doesn't like
it can simply change the mode in kcontrol...  

It would avoid a lot of the complaining that has happened, IMHO.  While
I think mdkkdm is silly, I'm not demanding that they take it out.  I'm
more than happy to change it after the install...

-- 
Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://ben.reser.org

"What upsets me is not that you lied to me, but that from now on I can
no longer believe you." -- Nietzsche

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Ken Thompson wrote:

> I hope Mandrake get's the hint, I see a lot of dislike for mdkkdm showing up 
> here and on the experts list. I personally detest mdkddm!!!
> HEY Mandrake - Listen to your users this time around..
> At least give a choice during install, leave mdkkdm as default for the 
> beginner if you want but give the experieced user the option of making a 
> change.

Instead of emotional outbursts, please rather document the reasons you 
don't like mdkkdm, as others have done on the cooker wiki. Maybe the only 
reason you detest mdkkdm is that you can't log in as root by default, and 
if they change the default to be kdm, maybe they will disable root login 
there by default too (since it really is best to prevent this, and force 
users into good habits, although of course you can change this if you like 
your bad habits).

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Ken Thompson]

On Sunday 03 August 2003 06:58 am, Leon Brooks wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:34, Joe Baker wrote:
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> >
> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> > of users this could be cumbersome.
>
> Most installations will have only one. I prefer KDM but *not* MdkKDM.
 ^
> Cheers; Leon
I hope Mandrake get's the hint, I see a lot of dislike for mdkkdm showing up 
here and on the experts list. I personally detest mdkddm!!!
HEY Mandrake - Listen to your users this time around..
At least give a choice during install, leave mdkkdm as default for the 
beginner if you want but give the experieced user the option of making a 
change.
-- 
Ken Thompson -- WA7SYR
Payette, Idaho

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Leon Brooks]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:05, Dave Cotton wrote:
> No, he wants to start l'Académie anglaise,

Oh, jam it up your ordinateur! (-:

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Leon Brooks]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:01, Gary L. Greene wrote:
> If you don't like seeing all the users, open kcontrol and edit
> the login manager settings.

Perhaps this could be mentioned somewhere as a tip or during 
installation?

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Leon Brooks]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:34, Joe Baker wrote:
> Can we switch to using gdm.

> I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> of users this could be cumbersome.

Most installations will have only one. I prefer KDM but *not* MdkKDM.

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 16:29, Frank Griffin wrote:
> Gary L. Greene wrote:
> 
> > The problem is Frédéric, is that when use the shut down option in 
> > GNOME when
> > I have GDM as the login manager, it won't shut the system down, whereas
> > when I used GNOME with KDM, it would. What it does now is it only 
> > drops me
> > back at GDM, then I have to select the shutdown from the system options.
> 
> According to fcrozat, this is supposed to be fixed.  See bug 3584.

Broken, fixed, broken, fixed...it's a jack-in-the-box problem, it keeps
coming back :). I've seen it come and go four or five times since I
started using Cooker.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frank Griffin]

Frederic Crozat wrote:

Yes, I saw that yesterday on my test system (it is not related to gdm)..
I'll investigate monday.
You can fill a bug against gnome-session so I won't forget about it..

 

Actually, I've seen this happen with mdkkdm as well lately.  I was 
waiting to get a stable cooker (with an installable KDE :-) ) to report 
it, though.  The symptom is the same: you choose either shutdown or 
reboot from GNOME, and mdkkdm comes back up with the login prompt.

I pointed out bug 3584 because the visual symptom is the same if you 
don't actually CTRL-ALT-F1 to the console screen and notice that 
shutdown is in progress, and a shutdown usually takes longer than it 
take people (me, anyway) to decide that my shutdown request didn't work 
and redo it from mdkkdm or gdm.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frederic Crozat]

Le Sat, 02 Aug 2003 03:40:51 -0400, Gary L. Greene a écrit :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Saturday 02 August 2003 03:12 am, Frederic Crozat wrote:
>> Le Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:34:44 -0500, Joe Baker a écrit :
>> > Can we switch to using gdm.
>> >
>> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
>> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot
>> > of users this could be cumbersome.
>>
>> Add DISPLAYMANAGER=gdm in /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
>>
>> gdm integrates without any problem with KDE. The only missing stuff is
>> shutdown when logging out, which requires kdm running (which is is
>> stupid, IMO, we have PAM to check if we need authorization..)
> 
> The problem is Frédéric, is that when use the shut down option in GNOME when 
> I have GDM as the login manager, it won't shut the system down, whereas 
> when I used GNOME with KDM, it would. What it does now is it only drops me 
> back at GDM, then I have to select the shutdown from the system options.

Yes, I saw that yesterday on my test system (it is not related to gdm)..
I'll investigate monday.

You can fill a bug against gnome-session so I won't forget about it..

-- 
Frédéric Crozat
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frederic Crozat]

Le Sat, 02 Aug 2003 11:29:52 -0400, Frank Griffin a écrit :

> Gary L. Greene wrote:
> 
>> The problem is Frédéric, is that when use the shut down option in 
>> GNOME when
>> I have GDM as the login manager, it won't shut the system down, whereas
>> when I used GNOME with KDM, it would. What it does now is it only 
>> drops me
>> back at GDM, then I have to select the shutdown from the system options.
> 
> According to fcrozat, this is supposed to be fixed.  See bug 3584.

Bug 3584 was another kind of bug : gdm wasn't see the system was shutting
down and was restarting X server, which was causing freeze on some systems
(on my home PC for instance..)

-- 
Frédéric Crozat
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frank Griffin]

Gary L. Greene wrote:

The problem is Frédéric, is that when use the shut down option in 
GNOME when
I have GDM as the login manager, it won't shut the system down, whereas
when I used GNOME with KDM, it would. What it does now is it only 
drops me
back at GDM, then I have to select the shutdown from the system options.
According to fcrozat, this is supposed to be fixed.  See bug 3584.

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Duncan]

On Sat 02 Aug 2003 02:53, Adam Williamson posted as excerpted below:
> On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 06:31, Duncan wrote:
> > The term "a lot" is two separate words (and isn't considered formally
> > correct either, BTW, "altho" colloquial usage is recognized).   It means,
> > as you were
>
> What the hell do you mean, "isn't considered formally correct"? I've
> never seen any authority at all that considers "a lot" to be colloquial
> or vulgar. It's perfectly standard English.
http://web.uvic.ca/wguide/Pages/UsAlot.html
It seems to be moving into mainstream usage.  Several years ago, it was 
considered informal or colloquial usage.  Most online dictionaries at least 
now omit that caveat, altho I did find one that still had it (dated 1995, 
when that classification was a bit more common, so no real surprise there).

University of Victoria (BC, Canada) Writer's Guide
http://web.uvic.ca/wguide/Pages/UsAlot.html



A lot / Alot / Allot 

A lot means "a lot": "A lot of pancakes." Note that this is an informal 
expression. 

Allot means "to divide" or "to give out": "They allotted six square feet per 
family."

Alot means nothing, and therefore is not to be used under any circumstances.
 
[...]

 Copyright, The Department of English, University of Victoria, 1995 
 This page updated September 22, 1995  



I found that listed on OneLook, along with a bunch of other dictionary listing 
links, here::

http://www.onelook.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/bware/dofind.cgi?word=a%20lot

- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Bellegarde Cédric]

It do that sometime, i don't understand why... If you put
/etc/X11/prefdm  in /etc/inittab at init 5, it always work but with dm
script, sometime it don't work and i don't know why


Le sam 02/08/2003 à 11:55, Adam Williamson a écrit :
> On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 08:12, Frederic Crozat wrote:
> > Le Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:34:44 -0500, Joe Baker a écrit :
> > 
> > > Can we switch to using gdm.
> > > 
> > > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > > login screen.  For installations where there are allot 
> > > of users this could be cumbersome.
> > 
> > Add DISPLAYMANAGER=gdm in /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
> > 
> > gdm integrates without any problem with KDE. The only missing stuff is
> > shutdown when logging out, which requires kdm running (which is is stupid,
> > IMO, we have PAM to check if we need authorization..)
> 
> BTW, gdm appears to be in a broken phase again at the moment - doesn't
> reboot when you select reboot from the GNOME logout menu, just goes back
> to GDM and you have to do system / shutdown. Anyone else seeing this? It
> seems to pop up frequently on my machines, then get fixed, then pop up
> again...

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Steffen Barszus]

Am Samstag, 2. August 2003 13:44 schrieb Buchan Milne:
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bellegarde [ISO-8859-1] Cédric wrote:
> > kdm will not allow you to reboot directly from gnome ;) gdm allow it.
> >
> > Maybee mandrakefirsttime should change default dm when user choose kde
> > or gnome.
>
> mandrakefirsttime should preferably never be run by root ... so which
> users should see this?
>

> IMHO, it would be nice to have a "Manage your server" welcome screen, but
> again, who should see it?


1) This don't need to have to be a welcome screen. If it is easy reachable it 
is enough

2) If we don't know who should see that, ask the user during install, he 
should know it ;) 

Steffen

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bellegarde [ISO-8859-1] Cédric wrote:

> kdm will not allow you to reboot directly from gnome ;) gdm allow it.
> 
> Maybee mandrakefirsttime should change default dm when user choose kde
> or gnome. 
> 

mandrakefirsttime should preferably never be run by root ... so which 
users should see this?

IMHO, it would be nice to have a "Manage your server" welcome screen, but 
again, who should see it?

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Buchan Milne]

On Sat, 1 Aug 2003, Joe Baker wrote:

> Can we switch to using gdm.

Sure you can. Mandrake Control Center->Hardware->Display Manager

> 
> I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> login screen.

This is no reason to use gdm over mdkkdm or kdm, as they can also do this.

> For installations where there are allot 
> of users this could be cumbersome.

Draksec has an option to disable user lists in login screens, exactly for 
this purpose. Of course, if msec options could be stored in LDAP 

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7

**
Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our
e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy.
**

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Bellegarde Cédric]

kdm will not allow you to reboot directly from gnome ;) gdm allow it.

Maybee mandrakefirsttime should change default dm when user choose kde
or gnome. 


Le sam 02/08/2003 à 04:01, Gary L. Greene a écrit :
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Friday 01 August 2003 09:34 pm, Joe Baker wrote:
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> >
> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> > of users this could be cumbersome.
> >
> > -Joe Baker
> 
> GDM doesn't integrate well with KDE. KDM does a far better job of being 
> desktop integration friendly (you click reboot or shutdown under KDE or 
> gnome, it'll happily do so, while GDM seems not to allow that.) If you 
> don't like seeing all the users, open kcontrol and edit the login manager 
> settings.
> 
> - -- 
> Gary L. Greene, Jr.
> Sent from   9:57pm  up   9:24,  4 users,  load average: 1.25, 1.03, 0.82
> 
> Founder and president of the Grand Valley Linux Users Group.
>   -==-
> Chief Systems Architect, SSC Limited, Inc. - OS Department.
> PHONE : (616) 331-0849
> EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQE/KxuUyPw381UL7WcRAs8jAJsHZwCshuhBVc4glRAtL265K6UO3QCgl4RI
> hzPRFWwdBa46oER3ibVSQt8=
> =GjtI
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Dave Cotton]

On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 11:53, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 06:31, Duncan wrote:
> 
> > The term "a lot" is two separate words (and isn't considered formally correct 
> > either, BTW, "altho" colloquial usage is recognized).   It means, as you were 
> 
> What the hell do you mean, "isn't considered formally correct"? I've
> never seen any authority at all that considers "a lot" to be colloquial
> or vulgar. It's perfectly standard English.

No, he wants to start l'Académie anglaise, and most of us in France know
what we want to do with the 40 time wasters in the French version.
-- 
Dave Cotton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 08:12, Frederic Crozat wrote:
> Le Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:34:44 -0500, Joe Baker a écrit :
> 
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> > 
> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot 
> > of users this could be cumbersome.
> 
> Add DISPLAYMANAGER=gdm in /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
> 
> gdm integrates without any problem with KDE. The only missing stuff is
> shutdown when logging out, which requires kdm running (which is is stupid,
> IMO, we have PAM to check if we need authorization..)

BTW, gdm appears to be in a broken phase again at the moment - doesn't
reboot when you select reboot from the GNOME logout menu, just goes back
to GDM and you have to do system / shutdown. Anyone else seeing this? It
seems to pop up frequently on my machines, then get fixed, then pop up
again...
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 06:31, Duncan wrote:

> The term "a lot" is two separate words (and isn't considered formally correct 
> either, BTW, "altho" colloquial usage is recognized).   It means, as you were 

What the hell do you mean, "isn't considered formally correct"? I've
never seen any authority at all that considers "a lot" to be colloquial
or vulgar. It's perfectly standard English.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Gary L. Greene]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 02 August 2003 03:12 am, Frederic Crozat wrote:
> Le Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:34:44 -0500, Joe Baker a écrit :
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> >
> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> > of users this could be cumbersome.
>
> Add DISPLAYMANAGER=gdm in /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
>
> gdm integrates without any problem with KDE. The only missing stuff is
> shutdown when logging out, which requires kdm running (which is is
> stupid, IMO, we have PAM to check if we need authorization..)

The problem is Frédéric, is that when use the shut down option in GNOME when 
I have GDM as the login manager, it won't shut the system down, whereas 
when I used GNOME with KDM, it would. What it does now is it only drops me 
back at GDM, then I have to select the shutdown from the system options.

- -- 
Gary L. Greene, Jr.
Sent from   3:34am  up  15:01,  2 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.41, 0.30

Founder and president of the Grand Valley Linux Users Group.
  -==-
Chief Systems Architect, SSC Limited, Inc. - OS Department.
PHONE : (616) 331-0849
EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/K2sDyPw381UL7WcRAhkBAKCGXQIg4kZJ2fVov/KVC/bMGaKn+gCfQk79
C+GRMewQrzFv4rhMtUbSNeY=
=e6gT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Frederic Crozat]

Le Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:34:44 -0500, Joe Baker a écrit :

> Can we switch to using gdm.
> 
> I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> login screen.  For installations where there are allot 
> of users this could be cumbersome.

Add DISPLAYMANAGER=gdm in /etc/sysconfig/desktop.

gdm integrates without any problem with KDE. The only missing stuff is
shutdown when logging out, which requires kdm running (which is is stupid,
IMO, we have PAM to check if we need authorization..)

-- 
Frédéric Crozat
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Duncan]

On Fri 01 Aug 2003 21:39, Joe Baker posted as excerpted below:
> On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 21:01, Gary L. Greene wrote:
> > On Friday 01 August 2003 09:34 pm, Joe Baker wrote:
> > > For installations where there are allot
> >
> > []
>
>  That certainly helps allot.

I was going to reply to this privately, as it could be more appropriate there, 
but then realized this is common enough to warrant public posting..  This 
isn't intended to be a spelling flame, or to embarrass anyone, as someone 
kindly pointed it out to me as well, for which I am grateful, as it is an all 
to common and understandable mistake.

The term "a lot" is two separate words (and isn't considered formally correct 
either, BTW, "altho" colloquial usage is recognized).   It means, as you were 
attempting to use it above, "a large quantity of", or "frequently".

The term "allot", OTOH, comes from the old idea of casting lots..  It means to 
distribute or portion out.  Example use as in a last will and testament:  "To 
each of my three children I allot 25 percent of my estate, with the remaining 
25 percent to be allotted equally between the following five charities, five 
percent to each."

In my case, and I suspect most others where this mistake is made as well, I 
originally attempted to write "alot", but the spell checker didn't like that, 
and offered "allot".  Many spell checkers won't offer "a lot", because it is 
two separate words, tho the meaning of the two together is different than the 
separate words alone.  (Yes, "tho" is deliberate.  )  I knew "allot" 
didn't "look right" as used, but until it was pointed out to me, I couldn't 
explain what was wrong with it..  Hopefully, my pointing it out here will be 
as helpful to others as having it pointed out to me has been.  That is 
certainly the spirit in which I am writing this, anyway.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Joe Baker]

On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 21:01, Gary L. Greene wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Friday 01 August 2003 09:34 pm, Joe Baker wrote:
> > Can we switch to using gdm.
> >
> > I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> > login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> > of users this could be cumbersome.
> >
> > -Joe Baker
> 
> GDM doesn't integrate well with KDE. KDM does a far better job of being 
> desktop integration friendly (you click reboot or shutdown under KDE or 
> gnome, it'll happily do so, while GDM seems not to allow that.) If you 
> don't like seeing all the users, open kcontrol and edit the login manager 
> settings.
> 
> - -- 
> Gary L. Greene, Jr.
> Sent from   9:57pm  up   9:24,  4 users,  load average: 1.25, 1.03, 0.82

My frustration with KDM is trying to get it to answer
XDMCP requests.

It's quite interesting that on my main Mandrake box,
the Mandrake mdkdm answers localhost logins and I've
configured gdm to handle XDMCP requests.

Thanks for pointing out the configuration options
for the login manager in the configuration panel
for KDE.  That certainly helps allot.

-Joe Baker

Re: [Cooker] dm - prefer kdm or gdm

[Gary L. Greene]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 01 August 2003 09:34 pm, Joe Baker wrote:
> Can we switch to using gdm.
>
> I don't like seeing all the user's names on the
> login screen.  For installations where there are allot
> of users this could be cumbersome.
>
> -Joe Baker

GDM doesn't integrate well with KDE. KDM does a far better job of being 
desktop integration friendly (you click reboot or shutdown under KDE or 
gnome, it'll happily do so, while GDM seems not to allow that.) If you 
don't like seeing all the users, open kcontrol and edit the login manager 
settings.

- -- 
Gary L. Greene, Jr.
Sent from   9:57pm  up   9:24,  4 users,  load average: 1.25, 1.03, 0.82

Founder and president of the Grand Valley Linux Users Group.
  -==-
Chief Systems Architect, SSC Limited, Inc. - OS Department.
PHONE : (616) 331-0849
EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/KxuUyPw381UL7WcRAs8jAJsHZwCshuhBVc4glRAtL265K6UO3QCgl4RI
hzPRFWwdBa46oER3ibVSQt8=
=GjtI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-