Re: [css-d] html email with css
At 14:52 +0100 on 09/06/2013, Philip Taylor wrote about Re: [css-d] html email with css: What I do think is "pandering to the manufacturers" is using inline styles because they are too lazy to parse styles found in the region, repeating styles in inner elements because they are too lazy to implement inheritance properly, and so on. There is also the issue that you are forced to send bloated messages (slowing the reception) due to their failure to follow standards. A message that uses header styles is much smaller than the same message with in-line styling. It is also harder to generate the message text itself since you have to locate where each style is needed and add a copy of the style parm there. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Speak of the devil: https://twitter.com/meyerweb/status/376053792749268993 On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > On 2013-09-06 14:11 (GMT-0400) Tom Livingston composed: > > >> Services I've used, like MailChimp, Campaign Monitor and Marketo force >> a text version to be made. If you don't do it, the system will do it >> for you (so make sure you check it!). > > >> Would this cover what you speak of Felix? > > > I suppose. I rarely investigate why any email displays no content. I usually > assume the few I ever see any more are from incompetent sources and/or > spammers. If it happens with expected email, I report the problem to the > sender, temporarily enabling display as HTML instead of plain text, or > viewing the raw email file, or calling sender's 800 number if necessary. > > -- > "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) > > Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! > > Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On 2013-09-06 14:11 (GMT-0400) Tom Livingston composed: Services I've used, like MailChimp, Campaign Monitor and Marketo force a text version to be made. If you don't do it, the system will do it for you (so make sure you check it!). Would this cover what you speak of Felix? I suppose. I rarely investigate why any email displays no content. I usually assume the few I ever see any more are from incompetent sources and/or spammers. If it happens with expected email, I report the problem to the sender, temporarily enabling display as HTML instead of plain text, or viewing the raw email file, or calling sender's 800 number if necessary. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > On 2013-09-06 11:50 (GMT-0400) vi...@graymatterstudios.ca composed: > > >> Thanks everyone for all the helpful info and links. I have a lot to >> read over now. > > > A bit more to consider: > > 1-Some people set their email readers to force display of message body as > plain text. If not sent as MIME to include a plain text version, it might be > displaying some formatting as content, likely leading to it not being read > at all, or otherwise not leading a result you're hoping for. Or, its content > might not be displayed at all, which might be interpreted as incompetence of > the sender. > > 2-A link alone instead, or accompanied by a brief plain text summary, would > be opened in a web browser with a click. Absent application of the usual > defense mechanisms to force legibility, it would more likely be displayed as > you expect. Better that click than a click on the delete button. > > 3-If your email results from subscription, the subscription itself needs an > option for plain text only. Email sent by the sub needs to include a link to > a page that enables this option to be readily accessed. > -- > "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) > > Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! > > Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ > > ___ Services I've used, like MailChimp, Campaign Monitor and Marketo force a text version to be made. If you don't do it, the system will do it for you (so make sure you check it!). Would this cover what you speak of Felix? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On 2013-09-06 11:50 (GMT-0400) vi...@graymatterstudios.ca composed: Thanks everyone for all the helpful info and links. I have a lot to read over now. A bit more to consider: 1-Some people set their email readers to force display of message body as plain text. If not sent as MIME to include a plain text version, it might be displaying some formatting as content, likely leading to it not being read at all, or otherwise not leading a result you're hoping for. Or, its content might not be displayed at all, which might be interpreted as incompetence of the sender. 2-A link alone instead, or accompanied by a brief plain text summary, would be opened in a web browser with a click. Absent application of the usual defense mechanisms to force legibility, it would more likely be displayed as you expect. Better that click than a click on the delete button. 3-If your email results from subscription, the subscription itself needs an option for plain text only. Email sent by the sub needs to include a link to a page that enables this option to be readily accessed. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Thanks everyone for all the helpful info and links. I have a lot to read over now. Vince Mendella, CGD graymatter studios On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 10:33:54 -0400, Tom Livingston wrote: On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Chris Rockwell wrote: > >> If my boss' wife (or one of my freelance clients husbands) views one of >> our sites on a 2005 laptop and shows him what it looks like in IE7 I >> don't think "You'll have to file a bug report with Microsoft to get that >> fixed" is going to fly. > > But that is exactly the opposite scenario to the one I was discussing, > Chris. You are arguing "it may be necessary to hack in order to > support legacy browsers"; I am arguing "it should not be necessary to > hack, nor should we be prepared to hack, to support the leading-edge > hardware (and related firmware) that is being forcefully marketed > today". > > Philip Taylor We're sliding OT for the list quickly, but I'll add that my biggest pain point is having clients ask that I support IE7. Leading-edge devices (including desktop browsers) are beginning to support things that barely have vendor prefixed support. I'm much more OK with that than the former. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
We can't expect every engineering team to interpret *fluid* standards in the same way. Progress is being made by the vendors; it may be due to competition, developer up roars, increasing cooperation between vendors on working towards standardization, better engineers, or something else, but it can't be denied that progress is being made. If my boss' wife (or one of my freelance clients husbands) views one of our sites on a 2005 laptop and shows him what it looks like in IE7 I don't think "You'll have to file a bug report with Microsoft to get that fixed" is going to fly. I'd rather keep my company and my client happy by adding/modifying/deleting a couple lines of CSS while in the back of my head i *know* that things are getting better. Rather than "stick it to the man", I would encourage everyone to file a bug report, make your client happy, and move on to the next project. We'll all be sitting around drinking beer and talking about, "Do you remember when we could use the grid module in IE but not Chrome? Those were some rough days!" Just my 2 cents. (I failed to reply-all on this) On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Tom Livingston wrote: > > > I should have mentioned that the inline font styling we do is > > generally set on the tag. With the possible need to repeat on > > elements inside the such as s, but it's been a bit since I > > was in an email so I'm not remembering it all. > > > > Above all, test, test, and then test. > > > > We use emailonacid.com, and I know there are other similar tools. > > Tom, you have a living to earn, and I am sure that many will sympathise > with your wish to keep your clients happy by fiddling and faffing with > the HTML and CSS until it render perfectly in every so-called > smart'phone, tablet, and whatever the next generation of chip-based > must haves will be called. But do you not also feel that by so doing, > you are making life easier for the manufacturer's at the expense of your > own time, and everybody else's ? All the while developers such as > your good self are prepared to pander to and mollycoddle half-baked > immature technology, there is no pressure at all on the manufacturers > to get their acts together and design their toys so that they are > standards-compliant. Would we (the HTML/CSS authoring community) not > do far better to stand together and to say to the manufacturers > "We code to W3C standards; if your toys can't render it properly, > employ /real/ programmers and get them fixed" ? > > Philip Taylor > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > -- Chris Rockwell __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Chris Rockwell wrote: > >> If my boss' wife (or one of my freelance clients husbands) views one of >> our sites on a 2005 laptop and shows him what it looks like in IE7 I >> don't think "You'll have to file a bug report with Microsoft to get that >> fixed" is going to fly. > > But that is exactly the opposite scenario to the one I was discussing, > Chris. You are arguing "it may be necessary to hack in order to > support legacy browsers"; I am arguing "it should not be necessary to > hack, nor should we be prepared to hack, to support the leading-edge > hardware (and related firmware) that is being forcefully marketed > today". > > Philip Taylor We're sliding OT for the list quickly, but I'll add that my biggest pain point is having clients ask that I support IE7. Leading-edge devices (including desktop browsers) are beginning to support things that barely have vendor prefixed support. I'm much more OK with that than the former. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Chris Rockwell wrote: > If my boss' wife (or one of my freelance clients husbands) views one of > our sites on a 2005 laptop and shows him what it looks like in IE7 I > don't think "You'll have to file a bug report with Microsoft to get that > fixed" is going to fly. But that is exactly the opposite scenario to the one I was discussing, Chris. You are arguing "it may be necessary to hack in order to support legacy browsers"; I am arguing "it should not be necessary to hack, nor should we be prepared to hack, to support the leading-edge hardware (and related firmware) that is being forcefully marketed today". Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Well, now there I definitely agree with you! But, I think, in the mean time, if you want the control of CSS (inline styles), you have to put up with the downsides. I will say to me repeating on s is the same as having to repeat on s for nested tables, which, if I remember right, you had to do with tags too. And for me, the ups out-weight the downs. Tom On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Tom Livingston wrote: > >> If I misread your post's intent, then I apologize for my tone. > > Your tone was absolutely fine, Tom, and no offense was clearly intended, > nor was any taken. But I do think you may have misunderstood my > message. I am not advocating eschewing media queries, or any similar > technology that allows a page to customise itself to the target device > and/or viewport. What I do think is "pandering to the manufacturers" > is using inline styles because they are too lazy to parse styles found > in the region, repeating styles in inner elements because they > are too lazy to implement inheritance properly, and so on. > > ** Phil. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Tom Livingston wrote: > If I misread your post's intent, then I apologize for my tone. Your tone was absolutely fine, Tom, and no offense was clearly intended, nor was any taken. But I do think you may have misunderstood my message. I am not advocating eschewing media queries, or any similar technology that allows a page to customise itself to the target device and/or viewport. What I do think is "pandering to the manufacturers" is using inline styles because they are too lazy to parse styles found in the region, repeating styles in inner elements because they are too lazy to implement inheritance properly, and so on. ** Phil. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Tom Livingston wrote: > >> I should have mentioned that the inline font styling we do is >> generally set on the tag. With the possible need to repeat on >> elements inside the such as s, but it's been a bit since I >> was in an email so I'm not remembering it all. >> >> Above all, test, test, and then test. >> >> We use emailonacid.com, and I know there are other similar tools. > > Tom, you have a living to earn, and I am sure that many will sympathise > with your wish to keep your clients happy by fiddling and faffing with > the HTML and CSS until it render perfectly in every so-called > smart'phone, tablet, and whatever the next generation of chip-based > must haves will be called. But do you not also feel that by so doing, > you are making life easier for the manufacturer's at the expense of your > own time, and everybody else's ? All the while developers such as > your good self are prepared to pander to and mollycoddle half-baked > immature technology, there is no pressure at all on the manufacturers > to get their acts together and design their toys so that they are > standards-compliant. Would we (the HTML/CSS authoring community) not > do far better to stand together and to say to the manufacturers > "We code to W3C standards; if your toys can't render it properly, > employ /real/ programmers and get them fixed" ? > > Philip Taylor Wow. OK. Well, I don't know what information that I mentioned or linked to that would be considered bad or something the w3c would balk at as I believe they talk about MQs on their site as well. I'm just offering a way to use them in a new place. But if you don't think responsive emails aren't a good idea, that's certainly your right and I don't think you - or anyone else - has to build them. I believe I mentioned that the articles have information relative to the OP's question whether or not he's doing responsive emails. I posted an option, and possibly some help for the OP. That's all. If you don't agree, I'm OK with that. I agree it would be great for manufactures to get together and do it right, and in the same way, but I can't wait around for that and must deliver what is expected and asked of me and I don't think I'm the only one in that position. This can't be the first time on this list someone offered help that may be "edgy". If you are in a position to say no to clients or pick and choose clients and projects then I'm a bit envious. I, however, am not. I stated that I agree certain methods are safer and more stable, but there are other options that are working. Email clients are not progressing at the same rate as browsers, in my opinion, so I think it's fair to find ways to get around limits to keep up with all these devices you mention that are out there now. Maybe, by pushing our methods, we can push the manufactures to do what you are saying. If I misread your post's intent, then I apologize for my tone. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Tom Livingston wrote: > I should have mentioned that the inline font styling we do is > generally set on the tag. With the possible need to repeat on > elements inside the such as s, but it's been a bit since I > was in an email so I'm not remembering it all. > > Above all, test, test, and then test. > > We use emailonacid.com, and I know there are other similar tools. Tom, you have a living to earn, and I am sure that many will sympathise with your wish to keep your clients happy by fiddling and faffing with the HTML and CSS until it render perfectly in every so-called smart'phone, tablet, and whatever the next generation of chip-based must haves will be called. But do you not also feel that by so doing, you are making life easier for the manufacturer's at the expense of your own time, and everybody else's ? All the while developers such as your good self are prepared to pander to and mollycoddle half-baked immature technology, there is no pressure at all on the manufacturers to get their acts together and design their toys so that they are standards-compliant. Would we (the HTML/CSS authoring community) not do far better to stand together and to say to the manufacturers "We code to W3C standards; if your toys can't render it properly, employ /real/ programmers and get them fixed" ? Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Chris Rockwell wrote: > Thanks for sharing the links Tom, I see some good stuff there. I have found > (we run seasonal campaigns so it's been a few months) that we still need to > use the tag, especially for Outlook. I look forward to trying it > without though. > > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Tom Livingston wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM, wrote: >> > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned >> > quite a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. >> > >> > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also >> > have quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css >> > in the head. Does anyone know how to get around this? >> > >> > Thank you in advance. >> > >> > Vince Mendella >> > graymatter studios >> > >> >> Here is the other page I mentioned: >> >> >> http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/post/3442/mobile-email-design-in-practice/ >> >> We use this method for *some* of our emails. Our own and for clients >> interested in responsive benefits (which, frankly, they all should >> be). You may not be looking for responsive emails - though it's a >> pretty good idea - however they talk alot about what clients will do >> with CSS in the head and inline. >> >> That said, I agree that inline styles are the safest way to go. We >> generally do all text styling with inline styles and have since >> dropped old school tags and the like. Watch out for spacing >> methods. Margin and padding have flaky support. >> >> Here are some other good resources: >> >> http://www.email-standards.org/ >> http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> >> -- >> I should have mentioned that the inline font styling we do is generally set on the tag. With the possible need to repeat on elements inside the such as s, but it's been a bit since I was in an email so I'm not remembering it all. Above all, test, test, and then test. We use emailonacid.com, and I know there are other similar tools. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
Thanks for sharing the links Tom, I see some good stuff there. I have found (we run seasonal campaigns so it's been a few months) that we still need to use the tag, especially for Outlook. I look forward to trying it without though. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Tom Livingston wrote: > On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM, wrote: > > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned > quite a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. > > > > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also > have quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css > in the head. Does anyone know how to get around this? > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Vince Mendella > > graymatter studios > > > > Here is the other page I mentioned: > > > http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/post/3442/mobile-email-design-in-practice/ > > We use this method for *some* of our emails. Our own and for clients > interested in responsive benefits (which, frankly, they all should > be). You may not be looking for responsive emails - though it's a > pretty good idea - however they talk alot about what clients will do > with CSS in the head and inline. > > That said, I agree that inline styles are the safest way to go. We > generally do all text styling with inline styles and have since > dropped old school tags and the like. Watch out for spacing > methods. Margin and padding have flaky support. > > Here are some other good resources: > > http://www.email-standards.org/ > http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ > > Hope this helps! > > > -- > > Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | > ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > -- Chris Rockwell __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:09 PM, wrote: > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned quite > a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. > > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also have > quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css in the > head. Does anyone know how to get around this? > > Thank you in advance. > > Vince Mendella > graymatter studios > Here is the other page I mentioned: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/post/3442/mobile-email-design-in-practice/ We use this method for *some* of our emails. Our own and for clients interested in responsive benefits (which, frankly, they all should be). You may not be looking for responsive emails - though it's a pretty good idea - however they talk alot about what clients will do with CSS in the head and inline. That said, I agree that inline styles are the safest way to go. We generally do all text styling with inline styles and have since dropped old school tags and the like. Watch out for spacing methods. Margin and padding have flaky support. Here are some other good resources: http://www.email-standards.org/ http://www.campaignmonitor.com/css/ Hope this helps! -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:09 PM, vi...@graymatterstudios.ca wrote: > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned quite > a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. > > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also have > quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css in the > head. Does anyone know how to get around this? > > Thank you in advance. > > Vince Mendella Vince, everything one reads on the 'net about html emails says use only inline css and tables, and even then there are many css styles to be avoided, especially floats. You can't always rely on inheritance either, so you have to repeat some styles with every occurence of a tag. I use tables for structure and inline css for basic styling and have had no disasters with hotmail, google, yahoo or email programmes like outlook and mail. Peter H. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
This might help: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/guides/mobile I believe they talk about client support, even if you aren't doing responsive. I have another page bookmarked and will pass it on when I get in the office. T Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:09 PM, vi...@graymatterstudios.ca wrote: > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned quite > a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. > > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also have > quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css in the > head. Does anyone know how to get around this? > > Thank you in advance. > > Vince Mendella > graymatter studios > > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] html email with css
It has been my experience that the non-inline styles are poorly implemented in email clients, if at all, with Outlook being the worst but Gmail having some issues as well. For the time being, we use tables and inline styles for our emails. We use phplist, so I can't speak to why MailChimp is doing that. On Sep 5, 2013 10:09 PM, wrote: > Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned > quite a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. > > I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also > have quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css > in the head. Does anyone know how to get around this? > > Thank you in advance. > > Vince Mendella > graymatter studios > > __ > css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] > http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d > List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ > List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html > Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] html email with css
Hi. I have been lurking in this forum for a few years and have learned quite a bit from reading the posts. Now I have a question to ask. I am coding an html eBlast and have most of the CSS as inline but I also have quite a bit of css in the head. It seems MailChimp strips out the css in the head. Does anyone know how to get around this? Thank you in advance. Vince Mendella graymatter studios __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
