Bumazhkas
On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 08:28:54AM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:03:14PM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > > > > That's a matter of course. At the moment the Men with Bumazhkas come, it's > > too late to act. > > > Bumazhkas? I thought I was pretty familiar with most weapons of the world, > but not Bumazhkas. What calibre are they? I've always liked those CZ Model 52 > pistols and Model 32 subguns in .30Mauser. Loaded hot with a teflon coated > bullet they should punch thru armor well. > Whoops, that should be "Model 23", not model 32. The 23 - 26 series from whence the Uzi got it's basic design, IIRC. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: USA PATRIOT Act Survives Amendment Attempt
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:03:14PM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > That's a matter of course. At the moment the Men with Bumazhkas come, it's > too late to act. > Bumazhkas? I thought I was pretty familiar with most weapons of the world, but not Bumazhkas. What calibre are they? I've always liked those CZ Model 52 pistols and Model 32 subguns in .30Mauser. Loaded hot with a teflon coated bullet they should punch thru armor well. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: UBL is George Washington
On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 09:32:16PM +0200, Anonymous wrote: > > Major Variola (ret) writes: > > > > The yanks did not wear regular uniforms and did not march in > > rows in open fields like Gentlemen. Asymmetric warfare means not > > playing by > > *their* rules. > > But asymm warfare has to accomplish its goal. It's not being very > successful. The only people who are siding with al-qaeda are those whose > brains are already mush -statist socialists, to be precise. If al qaeda Uh, the last I heard bin Ladin and the rest of al-queda hated socialists, which is why they didn't jive with Saddam. And, in fact, wasn't that exactly what the jihad in Afghanistan was all about -- killing commies? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Shuffling to the sound of the Morlocks' dinner bell
On Mon, Jun 28, 2004 at 12:25:02AM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: (snip) > Howard Dean threatened to turn the Democrats back into an > actual political party again, so the Democrats, Republicans, > and so-called liberal pro-establishment press made sure to > stomp on him (and if that didn't look well-coordinated, > you weren't paying attention.) John Stauber spoke at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair this last Solstice weekend, and talked a good bit about the myth of "liberal media" -- there is none. At least not in the corporate media world, and not even at NPR. He had a pretty good rant. http://www.prwatch.org/ So did Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. http://democracynow.org/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Shuffling to the sound of the Morlocks' dinner bell
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 06:26:05PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > > > In contrast, 95 percent of you (if you bother going to the polls at all -- > > and who can blame you for your increasing sense of mortification? You must > > start to feel like the Eloi, shuffling in to the sound of the Morlocks' > > dinner bell in H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine") will vote for a lying > > politician who you know to be a lying politician -- one of two > > interchangeable Skull & Bonesmen without any discernible political > > principles, who (no matter which wins) will proceed to raise your taxes, > > take away more of your freedoms, and continue frittering away whatever > > remains of America's reputation for decency by continuing the violent > > military occupation of scores of foreign countries that have never attacked > > nor declared war upon us. All this in hopes of temporarily propping up the > > bottom lines of sundry well-heeled banks, oil companies and federally > > subsidized engineering and construction firms. > > > > All because you don't want to "throw away your vote" -- and register your > > disapproval with that state of affairs -- by voting for a guy who would > > make you feel decent and clean. > > In *any* election other than the one we face this November, I would agree > with this 100%. But this time, I just can't. I fear the re-appointment > of Bush more than any other political event. That the author of this is > willing to overlook that he is knowingly helping to keep Bush in office, > trampling those rights he claims to so cherish, totally negates his > argument. > > Bush has never won an election. > > Let's keep it that way. My feeling is that Kerry won't be really any different, except possibly in the areas of environment and education. He'll be about like Klinton, maybe worse. And like Klinton, he's a lot smarter, so a lot more people will be fooled. One thing about Dubbya, et al, is they make a lot of really dumb mistakes. Look at Cheney telling Sen. Leahy to fuck himself -- these morons even turn off a lot of Republicans. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Citizen Chics Must Put Out
w.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=5473543 > > > >- > > > >WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A divided U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Monday that > >people are required to identify themselves when asked to do so by police, > >and rejected arguments that it violates their constitutional rights to > >privacy and to remain silent. > > > >... > > > >-- > >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > > > > _ > Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win > a trip to NY > http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Fact checking
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 09:05:32PM -0400, Damian Gerow wrote: > > Thus spake Harmon Seaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [27/04/04 17:18]: > :All of the above, but mostly door-to-door voter registration. When you > : consider that both klinton and dubbya were elected with only 13%-14% of the > : eligible voters, it wouldn't take all that many new voters to really make a > : difference. > > "Hi, Sir, my name is Bob and I'm here to educate you about all the > candidates in the upcoming election that your eight second attention span > will allow me. Oops, I guess I've used it all up. Bye now!" > > These things all work in theory, but never in practice. > You obviously have never done any door-to-door. People are quite often very interested. We've had fairly good success organizing people on local issues which affect them, like opposition to street widening. Voter registration is the same thing. > Why bother putting something up in a library? Chances are, if someone's > reading it there, they're already somewhat knowledgable about the > candidates. Or heck, maybe they're even there to do /research/ on them! > The mention was "giving talks in libraries", which works fairly well. The local library is the logical meeting place for local groups to hold meetings and talks. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Fact checking
On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 08:20:06PM -0400, Damian Gerow wrote: > > Thus spake Harmon Seaver ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [26/04/04 19:25]: > :And the local elections are no prime pickings either, it's crooks to the left > : of us, crooks to the right of us, ahead and behind, above and below. Extremely > : few real choices. The real problem is -- most people don't vote. What needs to > : be done is a real grass roots effort to educate people and get them to vote. > > So, how does one start a grass roots effort? I'm Canuck, and I'm not > exactly impressed with this year's pickings up North. My last vote was a > vote /against/ the in-office party, not for the party I'd like to see in > office. > > How do you start motivating a lazy and apathetic public to learn about their > candidates, and vote? Door-to-door campaigns? Talks at the local library? > Grocery store posters? All of the above, but mostly door-to-door voter registration. When you consider that both klinton and dubbya were elected with only 13%-14% of the eligible voters, it wouldn't take all that many new voters to really make a difference. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: Fact checking
On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 04:12:40PM -0400, Damian Gerow wrote: > > Agreed, every politician has their own problems. I /personally/ don't > believe that Mr. Gore was trying to take credit for 'inventing' the > Internet. His wording is incredibly vague, and I agree that it could be > taken as him trying to take credit for building up the Internet to the point > it is today. > > But he'd have to be *incredibly* stupid to actually believe that he could > get away with claiming he invented something that existed (albeit in various > forms) years previous. > Good grief -- algore is fucking pathological liar. That was just one example among thousands. He can't even tell the truth about where and how he grew up. Gore the lessor of two evils? As much as I despise dubbya, I can't say I'd prefer gore -- but then I voted for Ralph, and will again. And voted libertarian the two elections before that. And the local elections are no prime pickings either, it's crooks to the left of us, crooks to the right of us, ahead and behind, above and below. Extremely few real choices. The real problem is -- most people don't vote. What needs to be done is a real grass roots effort to educate people and get them to vote. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Altered phone cards?
Anybody heard of this before, or know how it's done? "And "Mr Tanaka" has good reason to be wary. He and his three friends are illegally selling phone cards that have been altered so they can be re-used." http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/671844D1-95C9-4BEF-903C-155B2E948C59.htm -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Re: BBC: File-sharing to bypass censorship
On Sun, Apr 11, 2004 at 12:41:03PM -0700, Eric Cordian wrote: > > As those who flog the Sex Abuse Agenda are well aware, 90% of successful > propaganda is owning the vocabulary. I am reminded of the changing of the > term "statutory rape" to "child rape" a few years ago, which I am sure we > will all agree is a less than accurate description of a 20 year old who > has consensual sex with a streetwise 17 year old crack whore. Or even his 17 year old virgin girlfriend. I really have a hard time understanding how we reached this point -- it wasn't even 100 years ago when girls of 17 were considered in danger of becoming old maids if they weren't married already. In fact, when I was growing up, the legal age for marriage in Mississippi was 12 for girls and 14 for boys, with parents permission. Without, it was 14 and 16. Many, many states had similar laws. And, in fact, back then at least one state, Maryland IIRC, had a "statutory rape" age of 8. So, while on the one hand, more young teens are having sex fairly openly, and at younger and younger ages, even in preteen, some as young as 10 from what I read in the press; the laws are becoming more and more repressive. And not just the law, also the prosecutors -- in Racine, WI a month or so ago it was announced that prosecutors had charged a girl and boy, both 15, with having sex with a child -- each other. WTF is going on? What else is this but religious oppression? Look, I can marry a girl (with parents okay) on her 16th birthday here in WI, but if I just have her come live with me, I could spend probably most of the rest of my life in prison. This is insane -- on what basis, under what Constitutional authority, does the state get to decide that the christer "marriage" vows are sacred and legal, and a pagan or indig "taking to wife" isn't? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
Muslim Rivals Unite In Baghdad Uprising
Bwhhhahahahhahah --ROFL This thing is getting funnier by the minute. " On Monday, residents of Adhamiya, a largely Sunni section of northern Baghdad, marched with followers of Moqtada Sadr, the militant Shiite cleric whose call for armed resistance was answered by local Sunnis the same afternoon, residents said." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56091-2004Apr6.html -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hokay hey!
Re: Powell admits "mobile weapons factory" scam
Here's another meme on the issue: >U.S. Unloading WMD in Iraq > >TEHRAN (Mehr News Agency) - Over the past few days, in the wake of the >bombings in Karbala and the ideological disputes that delayed the signing >of Iraq's interim constitution, there have been reports that U.S. forces >have unloaded a large cargo of parts for constructing long-range missiles >and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the southern ports of Iraq. > >A reliable source from the Iraqi Governing Council, speaking on condition >of anonymity, told the Mehr News Agency that U.S. forces, with the help >of British forces stationed in southern Iraq, had made extensive efforts >to conceal their actions. > >He added that the cargo was unloaded during the night as attention was >still focused on the aftermath of the deadly bombings in Karbala and the >signing of Iraq's interim constitution. > >The source said that in order to avoid suspicion, ordinary cargo ships >were used to download the cargo, which consisted of weapons produced in >the 1980s and 1990s. > >He mentioned the fact that the United States had facilitated Iraq's WMD >program during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq and said that some of the weapons >being downloaded are similar to those weapons, although international >inspectors had announced Saddam Hussein's Baath regime had destroyed all >its WMD. > >The source went on to say that the rest of the weapons were probably >transferred in vans to an unknown location somewhere in the vicinity of >Basra overnight. > >"Most of these weapons are of Eastern European origin and some parts are >from the former Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc. The U.S. obtained them >through confiscations during sales of banned arms over the past two >decades," he said. > >This action comes as certain U.S. and Western officials have been >pointing out the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been >discovered in Iraq and the issue of Saddam's trial begins to take center >stage. > >In addition, former chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix has emphasized >that the U.S. and British intelligence agencies issued false reports on >Iraq leading to the U.S. attack. >Meanwhile, the suspicious death of weapons inspector David Kelly is also >an unresolved issue in Britain. > >--Occupation Forces Official Claims to Have No Information About >Transfer of WMD to Iraq --- > >A security official for the coalition forces in Iraq said that he has not >received any information about the unloading of weapons of mass >destruction in ports in southern Iraq. >Shane Wolf told the Mehr News Agency that the occupation forces have >received no reports on such events, but said he hoped that the coalition >forces would find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction one day. > >Coalition forces and inspectors have so far been unable to find any Iraqi >weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. invaded Iraq under the pretext that >Iraq possessed a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. >~~ >And, the url to Ira's story: >http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-04.htm > >Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of >Colorado at Boulder. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
And who was it saying those terrible Sunnis would be isolated?
Shiites hit a home run! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3599381.stm -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Shock waves from Fallujah
Bah -- none of these clueless idiots get it. The Shiites will start doing the same thing as soon as it becomes clear that they're not going to get any real election. The dimwit westerners keep talking about civil war, but the Sunnies and Shiites aren't. They both know full well who's trying to promote that agenda. That's not to say Iraq shouldn't be broken up, it probably should, just as the US needs to be broken up. On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:29:01PM -0500, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > National devolution proceeds apace. > > Howie Carr is shocking Chris Wallace just now about partitioning Iraq > into three countries, Kurdish (who will have oil), Shiite (who will > have oil), and Sunni (who will not; geography's a bitch), all while > putting a Sharon-Fence around the newly created Sunni-stan. > > Kewl. > > The Globe, below, doesn't know it, but they're advocating the same > thing. > > Also cool. > > "The legitimate aspirations of the Kurdish and Shiite people being > irreconcilable with a unified Iraq, the assembled signatories > declare..." > > Cheers, > RAH > - --- > > <http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/093/editorials/Shock_waves_from_Fal > lujahP.shtml> > > The Boston Globe > > > > > > THIS STORY HAS BEEN FORMATTED FOR EASY PRINTING > > GLOBE EDITORIAL > Shock waves from Fallujah > > 4/2/2004 > > THE SCENES of barbarism in Fallujah that have flashed around the > world since Wednesday will reverberate in many quarters, not least > among Iraq's Sunni Arab minority. Sunni Arabs, who predominate in > Fallujah, belong to the group that ruled Iraq during Saddam Hussein's > dictatorship. They now face the prospect not only of losing old > privileges but of being dependent upon the benevolence of Shi'ites > and Kurds, whose kin were massacred by Saddam and his agents. > > The burning and mutilation of the contract workers' bodies will > likely affect US tactics in Fallujah and the rest of the Sunni > Triangle. No doubt those horrific acts will also strain the patience > of the American public with the daunting challenges of > nation-building and democratization in Iraq. Civilians working for > companies fulfilling contracts to rebuild Iraq's power plants, oil > industry, roads, and other essential infrastructure may be deterred > from continuing their work and will certainly demand more security. > And UN officials who have been contemplating a major role for the > world body in organizing Iraqi elections for January 2005 will have > to question the wisdom of exposing UN workers to the kind of violence > on display in Fallujah. > > But the principal effect of that violence inside Iraq will be to > make the situation of the Sunni Arabs in the area around Fallujah > even more tenuous than it has been. If the populace of the Sunni > Triangle allows itself to be carried away with the bravado of > Ba'athist and Islamist armed gangs -- accepting the delusion that the > Sunnis can use guns and bombs to prevent the coming of a political > order based on the principle of one Iraqi, one vote -- Sunnis > themselves will stand to lose the most. > > If they frighten away UN election organizers and no legitimate > electoral process can be safeguarded, the Sunnis will have brought > themselves a step closer to one of the two perils most at odds with > their interests: civil war or the split-up of Iraq. > > Americans are understandably appalled by the lynch mob horror of the > Fallujah atrocities, but over the past few months most of the > bombings and ambushes have been directed against Iraqis -- > particularly police, local administrators, and political figures. > This violence signifies not simply hostility to the US occupying > power but resistance to the advent of a democratic system that would > deprive Sunnis of an inherent right to rule. But if Sunni mayhem > makes it impossible to preserve the unity of the Iraqi state, Sunnis > will end up the biggest losers. Should Iraq break into three > countries, the Kurds in the north and the Shi'ites in the south will > have oil; the Sunnis in their triangle will not. > > And if the bombers and assassins succeed in provoking a civil war, > they will discover that losing a civil war is far worse than relying > on minority rights in a constitutional democracy. > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: PGP 8.0.3 > > iQA/AwUBQG3M+cPxH8jf3ohaEQKw/gCfd1H/3qT0adJcF5w/LqudKX5LjB4AnAxE > bCeo0KsdVeq6EAIkTgjRDt9l > =984G > -END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > - > R. A. Hettinga > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: [Politech] John Gilmore on the homeless, RFID tags, and ki ttens
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 11:38:07AM -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: > > Steve Furlong wrote: > > >On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 16:21, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > >> Tastes just like chicken? > > >Can we change the subject? My girlfriend is Chinese, I've already eaten > >things that I wouldn't have considered to be food, she doesn't like my > >cat, and I don't want her getting any ideas. There must be a problem with the ds.pro-ns.net node dropping some posts. I've seen replies by several people to at least three posts in the last week that I never got the original one, like the above. > > >However, to answer Robert's question, cat probably wouldn't taste like > >chicken. Carnivore and herbivore meat tastes much different. Chickens ain't herbivores, they are omnivores, and, in fact, prefer meat, bugs, etc. to all else. We always killed snowshoe rabbits for them in the Winter, and hung the carcasses just a bit off the ground so the chickens had to hop a bit to peck at it, which kept them warm. And if you've ever seen them go after a sick chicken, you'd know they are also cannabals. In fact, if you were to hit your head or otherwise pass out in a chicken house, they'd kill you pretty quick, or at least peck out your eyes, and then go as deep as they could. Likewise with any wound you had, say if you fell and hit your head badly. > > I haven't eaten domestic cat, but I have eaten lion. Suprisingly, > it was a light tender meat, resembling veal more than anything > else. Tasted good. > A lot of old trappers I've know tell me they've eaten bobcat and lynx and that they were tasty, and a lot like chicken. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 12:44:02PM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > > Bill Stewart wrote: > > > Marbury vs. Madison was an entertainingly kinky case, > > but the ability of judges to declare laws or executive actions > > Unconstitutional and therefore void is the main thing that's > > made the Bill of Rights effective (to the extent it has been.) > > The courts have often failed in that duty, but it's rightly theirs. > > > The alternative would be that the Constitution means > > whatever the executive branch of government says it means, > > and whatever the legislature says it means, ... > > I believe that the intent of the Founding Fathers was that an armed > populace would be familiar with the letter of the Constitution, and > tolerate no creative reinterpretation of it by any of the three branches > of Guv'mint. Yas, yas, yas -- and the only place we can see this being enacted is in Venezuela, where more people carry copies of their Constitution than carry the bible, and not only carry it, but know it by heart. How ironic that a leftist movement brought this about. > > One of the nice things about ignorance is that it is curable. Unlike > Neo-Conservatism. > Or politicians in general. I'll alway remember a professor correcting me when I said something about some pol being "so stupid", and he responded: "Don't ever think that they are stupid, they aren't stupid -- stupid people can be taught, they can be persuaded with facts -- these people aren't stupid, they are venal, they are evil." -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Sttop Spreading Hatred
Ahh, I was wondering why I got that message -- it didn't seem to have anything to do with any list, forgot about the "al-queda" node. So they must be spamming everyone whose posted with that crap. On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 08:54:12PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > OK, I keep getting this shit. Right now, I can't tell if it's > anti-agit-prop or simply a well-intentioned but idiotic muslim chick > (something about the wording made me assume this was a female). > > Listen up. Cypherpunks is a cryptography list, and al-qaeda.net is a node. > The subscribers to this list may or may not sympathize with the activites > of the "Real" "al-qaeda". The name al-qaeda is, I suspect, more or less > tongue-in-cheek, and at the least (or perhaps the most) a head-nod at some > of the gripes that real organization has with the US government, and those > that continue to support it's activites abroad. However, there does not > appear to be any regular posters to this list that are involved with > al-qaeda the "terror" network. (Actually, if there are, it would be > interesting to hear from them via the remailers.) > > Cypherpunks is an extremely diverse group of indivduals, that do not appear > to agree on a great many number of things. What binds us together (if > anything) is the interest in cryptographic techniques that would appear to > offer the capability of secure communications, with "communications" > meaning any kind of transaction that can be transmitted by data over > electronic or optoelectronic networks. Another thing that seems to bind us > (and again "bind" is probably a poor choice of words) is an extreme > tolerance to opinions very different from that of any one subscriber. > > Therefore please get a fuckin' clue. If you want to discuss the role of > "Radical" Islam in contemporary world politics, I'm sure there are those > that would be interested in doing so. Otherwise, please fuck off. > > Sincerely, > Tyler S. Durden > > > >From: "SSAR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Sttop Spreading Hatred > >Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:01:59 +0500 > > > >Subject: Stop Spreading Hatred > > > > > >I think being a Muslim you are not working for peace. You are misguided, > >mistaken and spreading hatred through disinformation and false > >accusations, which is resulting in death and miseries for number of > >innocent people living around the world at the hands of merciless KILLER > >MUSLIMS and also bringing bad name to MOHAMMED as Founder Of Islam. > > > >To save Islam from total extinction, please work for peace and > >reconciliation and prove to the WORLD through your deeds that MOHAMMED > >teaches "love & peace" and not Cruelty, Inhumanity and "Hatred & Killing" > >of the innocent civilians. > > > >S.A.R > > > > > > _ > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: corporate vs. state
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 09:43:53PM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > At 12:39 AM 3/26/04 -, Frog wrote: > >Harmon Seaver wrote: > >> each and every person involved in it should be liable. > > > >If a member of a club, to which you belong, commits an act of violence, > are you liable for that act? > No, but if the "club", as an entity, does such, you should be. If the corporation pollutes, all and sundry owners and employees should be equally liable. Or maybe liability adjusted to investment or wage, i.e., the biggest stockholders and highest paid employees get the longest sentences. The concept that no one is actually responsible for the criminal acts of a corporation is patently absurd. It means that they only recourse for justice is thru anarchistic action, guerilla warfare, and constant terrorism. Essentially a return to the dark ages -- just as we now see before us. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: corporate vs. state, TD's education
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:46:29PM +, Justin wrote: > > Why should it be impermissible for corporations to be "persons" under > the law when parents can be "persons" on behalf of their minor children? Why should they be? > > In both situations, one or more people are "persons" only to represent > others. Does a parent have any more right to act on behalf of others > than a company does? > > -- No, why should they? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: corporate vs. state, TD's education
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 05:27:14PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >Nonsense -- corporations are not humans, they have zero rights. > > Unfortunately, there are a whole slew of Supreme Court decisions that say > otherwise - mostly applying the 14th amendment (you know, freeing the > slaves) to grant free speech and other constitutional protections to > corporations. Correct, that is unfortunate -- and it certainly is additional evidence (as if anyone needed more) that the Supremes are just another criminal gang. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: corporate vs. state
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 02:42:13PM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > 2. Humans don't lose their rights when they form voluntary associations. > > That's all the corporate decisions are saying. > Humans don't lose their rights, but they also shouldn't lose their responsibility either. If a "voluntary association" injures me, each and every person involved in it should be liable. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: corporate vs. state, TD's education
On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 02:02:25PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > >Get this through your head: a corporation can't initiate force against > >you. > >You may not like their product, practices, or price, but no one is > >coercing you at gunpoint. > > Think I'm gonna have to disagree with ya' hear partner. > For one, in the old days Corporations regularly hired goons to mow down > striking coalminers and whatnot. > That's for sure -- you should read the history of the strike back around the early 1900's on Minnesota's Iron Range. The goons would surround a whole small town, then go from house to house beating *everyone*, even children, with axehandles. Killed a lot of people too. > OK, those days are all gone, right? Wrong. Halliburton and Bechtel have > both hired mercs for their Iraq operations. (In fact, I was on a call a > couple of weeks ago where a Halliburton official was describing the > casualties they take on a regular basis. These don't get reported much in > the news, though, for obvious reason...) > Not to mention all the goons they still hire all over the 3rd world to break strikes, kill organizers and labor leaders, etc. > However, a corporation doesn't actually have to hire the goons these days > in order to get the job done, not when it's much cheaper to call upon the > publically-available pool of goons that function as a government in some > places. The fact that some corporations may leverage existing thuggery to > get their job done doesn't make them any less complicit. But this is all > besides my main point... > > > >PS: you are a corporation, I am a corporation, together we could > >be a corporation, with 100K others we could be too. Doesn't > >matter; all have the same rights to act, and be left alone. Nonsense -- corporations are not humans, they have zero rights. Together we could be a partnership, with 100K others we could be a partnership as well. Corporations where the owners (shareholders) and employees are not liable for the crimes and debts of the corp should be illegal. And there's nothing at all socialistic or statist about that -- in fact, it's more that corporations require statism to even exiest. > > Well, this is where I suspect a little knee-jerk. I'm no socialist: in no > way am I saying that "Corporations are inherently evil". (In fact, I'm > hoping to continue profiting admirably as the result of my participation in > the capitalist system.) What I think bares investigation is whether or not, > here in the US, a subset of the big corporations are so tied in with the > political engine as to be complicit in the violations we both agree are > occurring. > > As Max said so eloquently, this is not to imply that "we should make some > laws and eliminate these big evil corporations". Or maybe it is (I Why not? If Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had their way, corporations would be illegal in the US. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: [osint] Martha's lesson - don't talk to the FBI
On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 04:01:55PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > > "Its a sign of John's early Alzheimers, when he lets his wealthwrath > get in the way of his one-time pristine appreciation of civil liberties." > > Well, I don't know Variola...I don't actually see much in that post that > violates that. In fact, kinda sheds some light on what might have triggered > this particular violation. If she's going to start rubbing elbows with the > Old Money like she always wanted then she can't be attracting a lot of > attention. I would not be suprised one bit to find out some suggestions > were made...toss the public a token psuedo-WASP so they won't think the > Sandy Weils and Dennis Kozlowskis are being unfairly targeted... > Nah, Martha got busted primarily because she was a woman and did so well that she pissed off the good ol' boys -- and they had to put her in her place, barefoot and in the kitchen. Otherwise, an example like Martha -- my god, who knows what women might do next? I'll stop believing this when Kenny-Boy goes to jail. Or actually, considering the humoungous difference of level of harm -- gets executed. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: MannWorld vs. BrinWorld
On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 09:12:34PM -0500, An Metet wrote: > > Robert Hettinga forwards: > > By concentrating sensing and data storage on the body, a wearable > > computer allows its user to ``control his own butt.'' The user > > determines when and where his gas is released and how much to trust > > the noses around him. For example, when a wearable user > > enters work in the morning, he may instruct his butt to inform his > > office of his arrival so that his office locks his door or starts an > > air freshener. However, the user would probably tell his wearable not > > to share his odors with billboards he walks past to avoid the sort > > of targeted advertising portrayed in the film ``Minority Report.'' Of > > course, some bargain hunters may choose to share their gas with > > advertisers to obtain better deals, much like clearing out customers > > from today's grocery stores. > > What the hell does this have to do with cypherpunks? What the fuck rock did you crawl out from under?
Feds win rights to war protesters records.
Also, activists subpoened to grand jury. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040207/ap_on_re_us/activist_investigation -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Encrypted phones/scramblers, etc.
Someone was just trying to tell me that the FCC, et al, won't allow encrypted phones or even the old style scramblers to be sold anymore. Have there been any moves in that direction? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 03:48:21PM -0500, Sunder wrote: > > > > > No, I have offspring. But what makes you think I'm human? > > > Ok, so, you're not human, you're a lunatic. Well, with an emphasis on the "luna" ... > Howl at the moon much lately? > As a matter of fact, yes. Good for the soul, and "what ails ye". Also often a fairly sociable event, at least among my volken. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 01:59:50PM -0500, Sunder wrote: > If those are your beliefs, then by all means, set the first example, and > go kill yourself. Better yet, sacrifice yourself to your goddess... By > doing so, you'll also earn yourself a Darwin Award... unless you've > already fathered kids... But from your tone of voice, I'd say you've > probably castrated yourself years ago. No, I have offspring. But what makes you think I'm human? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
The real problem is that the human race itself is either an alien species that doesn't belong on this planet, or perhaps just an evolutionary mishap akin to a cancer that has used far more than it's fair share of world resources. It's not that just some humans are "useless eaters", it's that all are, and the Goddess Gaia is clearly hard at work trying to rectify this situation with a variety of new bioweapons, i.e., AIDS, ebola, etc. which will soon, I'm sure, reduce the human population as is most necessary, by half, if not three-quarters, or perhaps just eliminate it all together -- to the wild applause of the rest of the Earth. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
swastika
Ah, now I finally understand why the PRC is so down on the Falun Gong. 8-) http://www.falundafa.org/eng/falun.htm -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: unsub from lne
Yes, thanks a lot Eric, lne was a good job. On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 11:08:30AM -0800, Eric Murray wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 11:42:56AM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > >Hmm, maybe Eric needs to undo his spam filter so people can unsub from > > lne.com. I just tried to, but it was rejected as undeliverable "spam". Tried > > I'm experimenting with a new sendmail milter. > (the SMTP HELO arg needs to be reasonably valid in order to pass). > I've now set it to not reject mail to majordomo at > lne.com. The blocklist thing is still > in effect, but if you're bounced by that > you get a URL in the bounce message > that you can use to get it fixed. > > Eric -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: unsub from lne
On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 11:48:17AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > On Dec 29, 2003, at 9:42 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > Hmm, maybe Eric needs to undo his spam filter so people can unsub > >from > >lne.com. I just tried to, but it was rejected as undeliverable "spam". > >Tried > >sending it thru a remailer but don't know if majordomo will go for > >that. > > > > > > An unsubscribe command sent to the lne.com administrivia address was > rejected as spam? > > I find that hard to believe, as that is one of the normal commands, > ones which the lne regular message lists. > > Perhaps you tried to send an unsubscribe message to the actual lne.com > list site, rather than the administrivia address. > > > Check which address you mailed to. > No, it went to the correct address. I've set up and run majordomo lists, so am fairly familiar with the procedure. The problem is that my email server sits on an ameritech dsl line, and in the last year or so, a number of domains have begun rejecting email from such. Some because it's a "block of IPs used for home dsl lines", some because "someone on your network has been sending spam", etc. IIRC, didn't you yourself have a problem awhile back mailing to lne.com? I haven't been able to mail to it for a long time, but stayed subscribed because of Eric's good filter, and just posted thru another node. With other domains, like new.rr.com that reject mail from my server, I just map it to go thru the ameritech smtp server, which works but is annoying. At this point there are eight domains I've had to do that with. Could have done it with lne.com too, of course, but prefered to not have my posts to cpunks going thru the ameritech server with it's (probably) attendent carnivore box. Maybe that's irrelevant -- maybe they have it on the gateway routers instead.
unsub from lne
Hmm, maybe Eric needs to undo his spam filter so people can unsub from lne.com. I just tried to, but it was rejected as undeliverable "spam". Tried sending it thru a remailer but don't know if majordomo will go for that. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 03:10:35AM +0100, Tarapia Tapioco wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq. > > > We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism. > > > > No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. > > Twenty years ago it was a different story. > > The propaganda mills were working for Saddam, not against him. Read what I said. The propaganda mills told one story then, a different story now -- who knows what the real truth is? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 06:59:59PM -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
> us. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but our foreign policy ought to be
> made based on what is in our long-term best interest ("our" meaning
> American citizens); realistically, terrorist attacks are a fairly small
> part of that calculation. For example, we could presumably beat China in a
Oh, but our foreign policy is based on "our long term best interest", or so
our minders tell us:
"Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has
been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce
everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if
necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to
make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to facilitate our
exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General
http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:41:07PM +, Jim Dixon wrote: > You have omitted a bit. A better question might be: "how would you have > felt if you had looted an entire country for 30 years, invaded two others, > annihilated any who objected, butchered hundreds of thousands of people, > dispatched assasins after enemies abroad, laughed at anyone who objected You don't really know that any of that is true, you only know what the current message is from the Ministry of Truth. Twenty years ago they were applauding him and giving him bio/chem/nuc weapons. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: U.S. in violation of Geneva convention?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 05:53:56PM -0500, BillyGOTO wrote: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 04:46:51PM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote: > > > Nice, but the problem still remains: At this point it doesn't matter > > what he has done (or we say he has done). This is not a punishment. > > "Innocent until proofen guilty" anyone? This is the basis for the > > "enlightened" western society, no? > > This isn't a ski mask burglary. We KNOW Saddam ruled Iraq. > We KNOW what crimes were committed. Simple syllogism. No we don't. We only know what the propaganda mills have told us. Twenty years ago it was a different story. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Saddam drugged says daughter.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3324021.stm And probably they're using drugs to "interview" Saddam, which explains the quick following busts. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 03:40:07AM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Anonymous wrote: > > > Nomen pondered: > > > > > Why robbing banks? Aside from allowing the > > > government to regulate them, what have they > > > done to deserve being robbed > > > >Why not? Revolutionaries need money, and the financial sector has > > always been asshole buddies with the police, politicians, and other pigs. > > Retarded. Someone trying to frame Mr. Seaver by adopting his > three-space paragraph lead-ins. WTF is this bizarre shit? We got narcs trolling for "terrorists" and more (or the same) narcs attempting to do textual analysis to figure out who the anon replies are from? Or pretending to do so to implicate others? And what is my supposed "three-space paragraph lead-ins?" The concept of textual analysis to prove ID has always amused me. A competent writer can easily change writing styles from moment to moment. I well recall a university english lit prof almost accusing me of plagarism when I wrote a piece mimicking Faulkner and doing so well enough that the prof actually started looking thru his works trying to find it. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Speaking of Reason
On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 03:31:22PM +, ken wrote: > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > >I don't know what "entryist" means. It might be helpful to define > >your terms. > > Really? > > That's odd. > > Taking you at your word it means someone who joins (i.e. enters) > a political party or another organisation in order to take it over > and change it to their own point of view. Usually secretly, and usually more than one person. It's a practice carried out by both right and left. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Type III Anonymous message
'92-'94 here: http://www.cybershamanix.com/punk.html with a link to the later stuff here: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/ On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 06:56:07PM -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: > > Does anyone have a reasonably complete cypherpunks archive available > > for FTP? Perhaps I could host them on my server and let Google index > > them. That might be useful. > > There are only two live ones. Someone knows more ? > > The second one is FTP-able: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cypherpunks-lne-archive/ > > http://lists.lab.net/archive/cypherpunks-exploder/ > > > > = > end > (of original message) > > Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: cypherpunks discussions
The web boards (forums) like phpNuke, et al, are not nearly as useful as listservs. The problem is that you have to go there. So, for instance, for the lists I admin, if someone puts out an announcement of an upcoming event, and people don't think to go look at the forum for awhile, they get the annoucement too late. Not a good thing. Another serious problem with them is that if you don't go there for awhile, the messages pile up, if it's a fairly active list, and become overwhelming. The tendency is then to just skip them. You also can't filter out the people you don't like -- a real drag. As for the lne.com blocks on "spammers", that bit me too. When my dsl line ip changes, sometimes I can post to lne, sometimes I can't. So I just subscribe to lne to get the spam free postings, and then post to minder.net. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP (fwd from sam@neurogrid.com)
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 10:52:12AM +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: (snip) > - Forwarded message from Sam Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - > > From: Sam Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:06:08 +0900 > To: "Peer-to-peer development." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] Peer-to-Peer Journal (P2PJ) CFP > Organization: NeuroGrid http://www.neurogrid.net/ > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; > rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 > "Peer-to-peer development." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi David, > > Although I agree with you about the copyright issue, I think that this > kind of thing is pretty common with academic journals. I'm not saying > that makes it right, but it is true. Every time I get a paper published > in a book or journal I have to sign away my rights to the paper. > > It is a wonderful little earner for the academic publishing industry > generally. They have academics working for free to generate the > content, and then they charge other academics to get access to the > journal. I think it is another one of those fucked up things that we > can't do very much about. However I would imagine that the publishers > of academic journals would say that there is such low readership that > without free content and exorbitant fees to libraries the entire thing > would not be profitable, i.e. they couldn't make enough money to pay the > people who work to actually print the journal. At the moment P2PJournal > is not making any money, is not charging you to read the journal, and > everyone is putting in their time for free. As it happens I have yet to > have any say in the copyright issues. I'm working on trying to get the > P2PJournal to serve the best interests of the P2P community. I will > pass on your comments to the Editor-in-chief. > > BTW, I think the standard deal with most journals is that you can > publish the work on your own personal website as well - but it would be > good to make that explicit. Unless things have changed in the last few years, that's not true. When I was at the Biomedical Library in Mobile, we had to make very sure that profs there had gotten *written* permission to put their previously published papers on their websites (which we ran for them), and even pictures of book covers. It most definitely wasn't automatic, at least not with most publishers. (rest snipped) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: e voting (receipts, votebuying, brinworld)
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:06:43PM +, ken wrote: > Thomas Shaddack wrote: > > >On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Neil Johnson wrote: > > > > > >>>""Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. > >>>Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" > >>>-- Ben Franklin > >> > >>And if they are all armed ? They all starve. > > > > > >Lambs can eat grass, which is usually unarmed. > > It is not. Grass is stuffed full of all sorts of complicated > chemicals that can cause confusion to creatures that chomp it. Not > to mention nassty little silica crystals. > > Lambs can eat grass because they are toughened and honed > grass-killers, fitted by millions of years of evolution to survive > everything the grass can throw at them. And even then they only > cope with some kinds of grass. When a cat eats grass it gets sick. > Right, in fact if sheep (and sometimes cattle) eat Phalaris sp., for instance, they get the "staggers", depending on the time of year and other environmental conditions, and also upon the alkaloid makeup of the particular cultivar. Phalaris, of course, contains fairly large amounts of tryptamines, like dimethyltriptamine (DMT), as do many other plants. And thank the Goddess for that -- but sheep don't like it. Or maybe they do, and just aren't saying.
Re: Panther's FileVault can damage data
On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 05:59:02PM +, petard wrote: > > If software companies were responsible for bugs in hardware that they do not > manufacture, MS would be in much more trouble than it is already. Apple is both a software *and* a hardware company, however, and they've pretty much always been negligent about making sure that other vendor's hardware worked with theirs and/or their OS. Just sticking in a new hard drive gives you error messages (which you can ignore and bypass) when upgrading the OS. You get the idea that they want you to only buy their hardware. In fact the whole OS-X thing is like that -- they deliberately, after having all the betas running on older powermacs, wrote the production code to exclude anything but new G-3 based machines. Don't get me wrong, I like Apple and their hardware, but some of their policies suck. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: "If you DON'T use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 01:50:37PM -0500, Sunder wrote: > The push to do that should be aimed at the MTA authors and package > organizers. If you can get it turned on by default, you're half way > there. Last time I tried to fuck with this on qmail, I had to patch qmail > to support it. Not something I'd like to do again - hopefully it's > changed a bit. > > >From 1st hand experience - it is indeed a pain in the ass. > > But if you can get the big projects to turn it on by default for all/most > of the MTA's, then you can push the bigger fish to do so as well. I'd It's not setting up tls itself that's the problem, really, it's the cert generation that got me bogged down and so everytime I've tried it, first with sendmail and then with postfix, I've ended up with "okay, when I've got more time I'll finish this". Of course, ipsec is the same way. Setting up ipsec on a cisco router is sure a lot easier. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: "If you didn't pay for it, you've stolen it!"
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 10:43:22PM -0700, Tim May wrote: > > TM: the last two paragraphs were of course added by me. But the point > is still valid, that much of Hollywood's claims about "illegal > listening" are not really any different from "reading without buying" > books and magazines in libraries. The more urgent issue is this crap Not to mention all the CDs and movies available in libraries. What's the difference in borrowing CDs from a library and taking them home and taping or mp3ing them and getting them from the net? > about corporations buying time in public schools. If I had a kid in a > school and it was proposed that Nike, Time-Warner, Coke, or Intel would > be buying teaching time, I'd tell them to stop it pretty fucking quick > or face the Mother of All Columbines. Or even worse the practice of Coke, Pepsi, et al paying money to the school for exclusive rights to market their product. Also sort of like what M$ did in schools and colleges -- gave them some free computers on the condition that all competing software be removed from computer labs. Not surprising at all that megacorps now want to buy teaching time in schools. In Japan the megacorp have long run their own schools for workers kids to ensure the loyalty of their future workers. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Then End of Western Civilization
I'm reading a book called "Bangkok 8" by John Burdett, it's a mystery, and I don't usually read them, but heard a review on npr and picked it up at the library, main character is a Thai detective who'se mother was a Bangkok prostitute and father an American GI on leave from VietNam. Fun read. Anyway, there's one part where the cop is remembering the teachings of his abbot -- he was a Buddhist monk before becoming a cop, a drug dealer before becoming a monk -- where the abbot says: "There will be a massive shift of power from West to East in the middle of the twenty-first century, caused not by war or economics, but by a suble alteration of consciousnessthe internal destruction of Western society will have reached such a pass that most of your resources will be concentrated on managing loonies." 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Drunken US Troops Kill Rare Tiger
On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 10:58:21PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 06:27 PM 9/20/03 -0700, Eric Cordian wrote: > >News services are reporting that US Troops, who have been holding > regular > >drunken parties at the Baghdad Zoo, have shot and killed the Zoo's rare > > >Bengal tiger. > > 1. The grunt found out that cats have no alpha cats Or rather that he just wasn't it. > 2. Nothing like boozing it up in a Moslem (ex)nation. At *least* the > grunt > wasn't *stoned* on cannabis or something evil like that. > Of course, if he'd been smoking hashish instead of drinking, he'd never even considered walking into that tiger's den. > At 10:04 PM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > >We have three or four distinct groups of cats living here that we > feed. Two > >in the house, two in the garage/greenhouse who once lived in the house > but could > >not resolve the dominance issue between one male in the house and one > alpha > >female now in the greenhouse. Then there are the more or less permanent > two > >females that live on and under the front porch, who also have serious > unresolved > >issues with the Mama Fritz of the greenhouse (who does get outside > during the > >day). Dominance also goes down the line, watching the 3 young offspring > of one > >of the porch ladies makes that pretty clear, one of those bosses the > other two, > > > Do you use PROMIS for Felines or the latest Orion Scientific codes to > manage > these relationships? Just curious; Ellison is on the phone trying to > sell Oracle ID > for cats. > I am just their lowly servant. They call me Katmandoo. > . > If the chinese muslim priestgrunt was spying for Usama, maybe Wen-Ho was > selling > bahklava recipes to Saddam? Sounds like all he had was his pastoring notes -- like where, in the maze of tiger cages, the individuals he worked with lived, and who, in the gulag heirarchy, he needed to talk to about them. Although ya' never know with them inscrutable muslims, and him being an inscrutable oriental besides. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: cats
On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:40:57PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
> >On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> >> "Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat."
> --David
> >> Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
> >
> >
> > Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests
> to
> >determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it
> is of
> >lions.
>
> First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond
>
> the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang
> out together.
>
> Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement
> was a metaphor about leaderless ("anarchic") assemblies such
> as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically
> understood
> that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach
> party:
> there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise
> choreographing
> squat.
Yes, I'm well aware of what it's trying to say, but it's really a very poor
analogy based on a faulty premise.
> When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert
> dominance,
Not "may" -- they always do, just as dogs do. And not just in first meetings,
it continues virtually forever, including sometimes all-out fighting, but
sometimes too subtle for most humans to even be aware of.
> (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-)
> but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the
> higher-up's ass.
>
We have three or four distinct groups of cats living here that we feed. Two
in the house, two in the garage/greenhouse who once lived in the house but could
not resolve the dominance issue between one male in the house and one alpha
female now in the greenhouse. Then there are the more or less permanent two
females that live on and under the front porch, who also have serious unresolved
issues with the Mama Fritz of the greenhouse (who does get outside during the
day). Dominance also goes down the line, watching the 3 young offspring of one
of the porch ladies makes that pretty clear, one of those bosses the other two,
but all are subservient to the two older females, and their mother, Shy, clearly
bosses Bobbette, the other older female. Neither of them take crap from Mama
Fritzi, in fact one day I watched Bobbette whup Mama's butt, but that hasn't
deterred Mama one iota.
And then we have the feral toms who come to the permanent bin feeder on the
porch as well, who have their own inter-relationships.
If you read any texts on cat behavior, you'll find dominance a well studied
attribute. Most say there is *always* an alpha cat, even if it isn't apparent to
the casual observer.
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
cats
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote: > "Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David > Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: "Terror Reading"
On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:03:00PM -0700, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, Anonymous wrote: > > > >Some librarians are probably now thinking they have a patriotic duty to > > >see what people are reading and to report any "suspicious" behavior. First of all, the entire library community is outraged at being put in this position, and, in fact, the American Library Assoc. is suing Asskruft and the fedzis over it. Secondly, I personally know a great many librarians, holding an MLIS myself and having worked in several libraries, and all the librarians I know are very pissed about this and have no interest in cooperating if at all possible. > > >Part of the intent of the Patriot Act and the Library Awareness Program > > >was to bamboozle the nation's librarians into acting as the kind of > > >"ward watchers" that were once so common in the Soviet Union (the > > >babushkas who sat on each floor of apartment buildings and filed > > >reports on the comings and goings of their flock). > > > > The purpose of this is purely a show and indoctrination. > > > > 1. No self-respecting terrorist would go to a fucking library to do > > terror reading (maybe there is something positive here - I think that > > we should get protected by pigs from extremely dumb terorists.) > > The risk is not one "terrorists" have to fear. The biggest problem with > the librarian narc program is the same as most of these anti-terrorism > measures: completely innocent people are harassed, arrested, or placed > under suspicion. > So far I only know of one instance of the pigs coming to a library and demanding info on a patron. And it wasn't the fedzis, it was the local pigs and they weren't after a terrorist, they were after some poor souls library records because they suspected him of something to do with drugs. And I'll bet you that the vast majority of pig demands on libraries are in the same vein. This one was on the web: "The Virginia Public Library received a request for patron records from the Deputy Sheriff. The staff member informed the officer he would need to talk to the Director. Director Nancy Maxwell stated that she would check with the city attorney. When he could not be located in time, she contacted ALS and was advised to give them the information requested since it was accompanied by a court order." http://www.arrowhead.lib.mn.us/compass/minutes/august02.html > You won't catch a terrorist learning to be evil at a library, but you > might wrongfully snare an innocent citizen who happens to have an interest > in "bad" books. > > How long until this program is extended to include anyone checking out any > book that some part of the US law enforcement body deems bad? If you read > Pikhal, do you end up on a watch list? Yup. That's their main interest. Fuck terrorists -- the pigs are only interested if there is something to steal at the bust, like drugs or money, or there might be property to grab. Just try and get them to do anything about regular crime like enforcing disturbing the peace or drunk and disorderly. So, of course, that's what they are using the unpatriot act for. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Slashdot | Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs (fwd)
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 04:16:32PM +0100, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >I don't get it -- exactly what do they think they would be taxing? 9% of > > what? The bits and bytes that flow thru? The owners already paid a sales tax > > on the hardware, or is this like a yearly property tax? > > Bizarre! > > A bit tax has been proposed in the European Union several times. The > general idea is to levy a tax on each bit/byte of Internet traffic that > flows through some specified point or set of points. So far the Internet > service providers have successfully lobbied against the tax. > > The US legislators obviously haven't clearly thought through their > proposal yet. But it would be easy enough to, for example, reason > that it costs N cents to push a megabyte down a telephone wire, and > so it would be 'logical' to impose a tax 0.09 * N cents/megabyte. > The LAN is just a way around the telephone wire, right? No, that would be taxing the WAN, not the LAN. Which, BTW, they already do, both fed and state. Not by throughput, per se, but there's a tax on the lines, the T1's or whatever. If they tax the actual LANs, they would either have to mandate a bit meter on each LAN, or, if they are talking about a property type tax --- hmm, that could actually be a GoodThing@ -- think about it, a property tax on the LAN would mean that companies would be reluctant to buy new hardware, and, as their computers aged, they'd naturally migrate to linux to be able to get decent speed out of the ancient cpus. 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Slashdot | Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs (fwd)
I don't get it -- exactly what do they think they would be taxing? 9% of what? The bits and bytes that flow thru? The owners already paid a sales tax on the hardware, or is this like a yearly property tax? Bizarre! On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 06:35:47PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/08/25/2248224.shtml?tid=103&tid=98&tid=99 > > -- -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.com -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: "domestic terrorism", fat lazy amerikans & ducks
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 11:40:20AM -0600, Patrick wrote: > > As expected, animal and environmental activists are now being called > > terrorists. > > Not new; some have been labeled terrorists for a long time, with > good reason. Good reason? EarthFirsters are called terrorists when they treesit or blockade roads. How about releasing furfarm mink, do you consider that terrorism as well? AFAIK, neither ELF or ALF has every harmed a human, so calling them terrorists is just statist agitprop. > But don't confuse activists with terrorists. Handing out > leaflets is activism. Planting firebombs in restaurants is terrorism. > > http://www.activistcash.com has some introductory material on > how PETA is connected with ALF, ELF, etc. > > > Patrick -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: National Emergency?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 04:02:19PM +0100, Vincent Penquerc'h wrote: > >So how much of the Constitution gets shredded by Bush's > > declaration of a > > "national emergency" right after 9/11, and how long can he > > maintain that. I > > mean, I realize the the Constitution/bill of rights is pretty > > much gone anyway, > > but ... > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/1622.html > Part of which says: (b) Termination review of national emergencies by Congress Not later than six months after a national emergency is declared, and not later than the end of each six-month period thereafter that such emergency continues, each House of Congress shall meet to consider a vote on a joint resolution to determine whether that emergency shall be terminated. Funny, I've never heard or read anything about them doing this. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
National Emergency?
So how much of the Constitution gets shredded by Bush's declaration of a "national emergency" right after 9/11, and how long can he maintain that. I mean, I realize the the Constitution/bill of rights is pretty much gone anyway, but ... -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 02:14:29PM -0400, Paul Hart wrote: > On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 09:09 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > >It seems that the military is claiming that we are in a "national > >emergency" and they can do whatever they want, despite laws to the > >contrary. > > > > You are in a "national emergency." > > http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010914-5.html Yes, of course, we will always be in a national emergency. Very convenient, eh? Using that logic, we didn't even need the unpatriot act enacted, they can simply evade any and all laws/bill of rights on the basis that we are in a "national emergency" just on the scumbag prez's say so. Isn't this essentially what every dictator does? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 10:01:38AM -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: > Peter Thonen wrote.. > > "On that same note, any weekend warrior who complains about being activated > has > no sympathy from me. > Take the devils coin, be prepared to do his work also." > > Well, what if the Devil stole that $ from you in the first place? What > level of subversion is appropriate in order to re-appropriate those $$$? > This case is clearly different from the true blue career war criminal, ehr > I mean career soldier. Here, these people have likely been paying taxes for > a while! So I don't mind too much if they're trying to dodge their > commitment in this context. > I think also a great many of the young guys joined the National Guard in a patriotic fervor right after 9/11, but by the time the crusade against Iraq got started, quite a few had become well aware that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that the invasion was all about oil, etc, and weren't willing to go. It seems that the military is claiming that we are in a "national emergency" and they can do whatever they want, despite laws to the contrary. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 04:52:25PM +0200, Thoenen, Peter CIV Sprint wrote: > > On a semi related side note, how long has this guy been in (total length of > service)? All personnel when they join the US Military are quite clearly > informed they have an 8-year commitment, regardless of how long their > initial enlistment is. If your initial commitment is less than 8 years, > you are moved into the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) for the remainder of > the 8 years. (E.g. you enlist for 4 years active or ready reserve (weekend > warriors); you will also spend 4 years in IRR). This is the guard. (snip) > > On that same note, any weekend warrior who complains about being activated > has no sympathy from me. Take the devils coin, be prepared to do his work > also. Yup - I don't have any sympathy for him being called up and sent over, but when the contract is over, the law says they have to release him and can't extend his hitch. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 10:37:15PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 02:33 PM 8/17/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > Just heard about this local guy who reluctantly went to Iraq because > > >he was in the reserves, now his contract is up (as of 7/31) and they > >won't let him out. > > Did he reluctantly take the $$$ to be in the reserves, too? > > > my > >enlistment contract ended and the I have been involuntarily extended. > > SOP. Happened during the Yugo thang too. So a contract isn't a contract anymore, eh? It's changed unilaterally by USG whenever and however they want? Well, I suppose there's good precedence for that too -- ask any Native American. (snip) > > I find it very troubling that the USA > >would force people against their free will to be in > >the military, > > It hasn't, it only requires males to register. So far. > It certainly is in this case, and, I'm sure, in many others. If you sign a contract to work for me for a year, and at the end of that year, I lock the factory door and won't let you out, send big mean guys with guns to make sure you stay seated at your machine and keep working -- what would you call that? Slavery? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 03:21:43PM -0700, Tim May wrote: > On Sunday, August 17, 2003, at 01:43 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 02:04:09PM -0700, Tim May wrote: > >>On Sunday, August 17, 2003, at 12:33 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > >> > >>> Just heard about this local guy who reluctantly went to Iraq > >>>because > >>>he was in the reserves, now his contract is up (as of 7/31) and they > >>>won't let him out. > >>> > >> > >> > >>I've known for more than 40 years that there's always been language in > >>the deal the Reservists make that say they can be called back as > >>needed, in times of war. And kept in until not needed. > >> > >>If this guy didn't know that Reserve pay comes with strings attached, > >>he should have. > >> No sympathy from me. > >> > > > > That doesn't jive with the statutes: > > You said he was in the reserves. And that's what I commented on. > > Below you are quoting use of the _National Guard_. Sorry, I mispoke -- he's in the Guard. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 02:04:09PM -0700, Tim May wrote: > On Sunday, August 17, 2003, at 12:33 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > Just heard about this local guy who reluctantly went to Iraq because > >he was in the reserves, now his contract is up (as of 7/31) and they > >won't let him out. > > > > > I've known for more than 40 years that there's always been language in > the deal the Reservists make that say they can be called back as > needed, in times of war. And kept in until not needed. > > If this guy didn't know that Reserve pay comes with strings attached, > he should have. > No sympathy from me. > That doesn't jive with the statutes: TITLE 10 > Subtitle E > PART II > CHAPTER 1211 > Sec. 12407. Sec. 12407. - National Guard in Federal service: period of service; apportionment (a) Whenever the President calls the National Guard of a State into Federal service, he may specify in the call the period of service. Members and units called shall serve inside or outside the territory of the United States during the term specified, unless sooner relieved by the President. However, no member of the National Guard may be kept in Federal service beyond the term of his commission or enlistment. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
war Crimes
http://counterpunch.org/cloughley08162003.html "Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: "If you want your family released, turn yourself in." Such tactics are justified, he said." There obviously is very, very little difference anymore between the US gov't and the Third Reich anymore. Read the whole article, it's nauseating. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
US soldiers in Iraq held against their will
Just heard about this local guy who reluctantly went to Iraq because he was in the reserves, now his contract is up (as of 7/31) and they won't let him out. Dear friends As many of you know I am in Iraq with the 724th Eng Bn. Many of you may not know however that on July 30th 2003 my enlistment contract ended and the I have been involuntarily extended. I am now a prisoner of the US army. I find it very troubling that the USA would force people against their free will to be in the military, furthermore the fact that their are hundreds perhaps thousands of able bodied volunteer soldier in the Wisconsin Army System that have not been activated and that could replace those soldiers who are in Iraq involuntarily. I request you assistance in helping me get home. Free Moon!! Below is a letter I have written to our Wisconsin congresspersons, and governor. Also below are their addresses and email addresses. I ask that you read my letter to them and email or write all of them with a similar letter addressed from your view point. Please do not forward my letter to them but rather write them in you own words your objection to the practice ofinvoluntary extension as it pertains to me. I feel that if enough people write that it may actually influence my Battalion Commander, who has the power to do so, to grant me my honorable discharge and send me home. Also please forward this email to people who you know know me and would be willing to help. Please help me return home, reunite with my son, and practice my religion of non-violence. Thank you. Love, Jason Moon Russ Fielgold[EMAIL PROTECTED] Send snail mail to this address Bob Schweder C/O Senator Russ Fiengold 1640 Main Street Green Bay, WI 54302 920) 465-7508 Bob Schweder is Fiengold Military/ Veteran Affairs Aide. Herb Kohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send snail mail to this address Steve Piotrowski C/o Senator Kohl 14 West Mifflin Street, Suite 207 Madison, WI 53703 Phone: (608) 264-5338 Fax: (608) 264-5473 Kohl personally asked to send all thought regarding Jason to Steve but still email the Senator. He responded personally to my email. Tom Petri US Rep 6th District WI http://www.house.gov/writerep/ Use the above link to write Rep Petri Send snail mail to this address Rep. Tom Petri 490 West Rolling Meadows Drive Suite B Fond du Lac, WI 54937 Tel: 920/922-1180 Toll-free in Wisconsin: 800/242-4883 -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: [cta@hcsin.net: Re: CNN: 'Explores Possibility that Power Outage is Related to Internet Worm']
Somehow I have difficulty believing the these people could be so totally lame as to be running mission-critical stuff like this on windoze. Please say it isn't true. Is the military also now dependant on windoze? Bizarre, absolutely bizarre. And here I thought it was probably caused by people with potato guns firing tennis balls filled with concrete, attached to coils of wire cable, dropping them across the power lines and transformer stations. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: How can you tell if your alarm company's...
On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:52:32AM -0400, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: > On Saturday 09 August 2003 02:01, John Kozubik wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: > > > ...in cahoots with the "authorities"? > > > > Most intelligent and savvy people I know "roll their own" Tivo (PVR, etc.) > > - I think the answer to your question is that it would be reasonable (and > > trivial) to roll your own alarm system. > > But it's not trivial to roll your own 24/7 monitoring company with the ability > to call in the cops. If the monitoring company is compromised, you're > \033653337357 anyway, but without them, all you have is one of those car > alarms that everyone ignores. But how important is that anyway? Most any half competent burglar knows enough to cut the phone wire before the B&E, so they don't get called. That means that, yes, if some dimwit middleschool kid is doing the job, the cops get called, otherwise no. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Conference
Here's another one. On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:20:30PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote: > At 09:46 2003-08-06 -0700, Tim May wrote: > I was intensely opposed to the gibberish about how the Republicans "stole" > the Florida vote, for multiple reasons. First, the Dems wanted to change > the rules after the outcome went against them...they wanted "hanging chads" > counted in their favor (ultimately, of course, this wouldn't have even > swayed the outcome, as careful studies by newspapers showed). Second, they > wanted the Elections Commission to somehow adjust the outcome based on exit > interviews with little old Jewish ladies who claimed they wanted to vote > for Algore but who actually voted for Pat Buchanan or Jeffery Dahmer or > whomever it was that was opposite Chad Gore on the ballot (note that > Democrats designed the ballot). Third, they wanted only precincts known to > be leaning toward Chad Gore recounted from scratch. (I would have _opposed_ > a statewide recount on general common sense and legal grounds, too, but for > sure I was aghast at the proposal to only recount selected precincts: > "We'll keep recounting until the outcome fluctuates in our favor!") > > This was certainly a farce, but the decision by the SC to intervene was > worse. The matter should have been thrown into the House of Representative > where the Constitution has provisions for its resolution (or lack thereof). > > steve > > > "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders > itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." John > Adams -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Computer Voting Expert, Dr. Rebecca Mercuri, Ousted From Elections Confer...
Why is it people are not using normal quoting procedure lately? This is at least the third message today I've seen like this -- no way to tell who said what. On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:58:06PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/6/2003 12:51:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Having Mercuri and Chaum ejected is the best thing that could have > happened. > Absolutely correct..You should try to think up ways to get them to be even > more hostile to them. > > Regards, Matt- -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: CyberShamans who claim to be only mildly interested in Wicca
On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 08:39:57AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Tim May wrote: > > > I said many texts. > > Which isn't the point, the point was 'bible'. You executed a strawman and > nobody seems to have noticed. Typical CACL. I noticed, but arguing with Tim is rather pointless. If he tried to refute primary sources with tertiary sources in a paper at any university he'd not only get an F but probably some very nasty comments from the prof as well. So when you're dealing with someone who resorts to that kind of crap, what's the point? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The name of Jesus, and a novel about the Knights Templars
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 01:49:08PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Thursday, April 3, 2003, at 01:02 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 11:22:09AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > >> > >>YHWH is the Tetragrammaton. Jews (and some others) believe the name of > >>their god may not not be spoken. Vowels are usually left out in > >>Semitic > >>languages, with sometimes placeholder consonants. In this case, > >>various > >>transcriptions of YHWH come out as "Yahweh," "Jehova," "Jehovah," etc. > > > > Correct, except for the Jehovah part. The use of jehovah has been > >entirely > >refuted by pretty much all bible scholars and the only translation > >you'll find > >it in is, IIRC, the King James. Jehovah's Witnesses still use it, of > >course, > >but.. > > Nonsense. Do a Google search. It shows up in many texts, for many > flavors of religion. Many Bible texts? Care to tell us which ones? I don't really need to do much of a google since I've got hardcopies of all the mainstream bibles sitting here on the shelf, plus concordances. But just for instance: American Standard Version did have it, however, the New American Standard doesn't. King James had it in 4 verses, but none in the New King James. New International Version doesn't have it. The NIV is the favorite of most fundys. Revised Standard Version doesn't have it, nor does the New Revised Standard. The RSV is considered by almost any biblical scholar to be the hands-down best translation. Douay-Rheims doesn't. New American Bible, mostly used by Catholics, doesn't Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible doesn't have it. There are a couple fo the more recent colloquial translations that have it, but those aren't well thought of by *any* scholars. In short, there are almost no bible translations at all that use the name jehovah. > > The theory that the vowels were some of the ones in the Greek name for > "Lord" is just one of several theories. Inasmuch as there are several > main vowel sounds, nearly any attempt to speak "YHWH" out loud is going > to lead to some sound that is a variant of "Yah-way" or "Ya-ho-way" or > "Ya-ho-vah," given the usual Y/J and V/W and suchlike shifts. > > > > > > > >>The "Yah" part is familiat to those familiar with Rastafarians, as Ja > >>or Jah. > > > >Well, sort of -- but actually for them Jah is just the shortened > >version of > >Jah Ras Tafari, meaning Haile Selassie, Emperor of Ethopia, direct > >descendant of > >the King David. > > Again, nonsense. I said "Jah" is another variant of the name of their > god, and this is exactly what "Jah Ras Tafari" contains. And the word > "Jah" pre-dated that Ethiopian politician by thousands of years. > > To claim that the "Jah" in a name applied mid-20th century is part of > the "shortened version of Jah Ras Tafari" is silly. > > Get a clue, Harmon. > > I have plenty of clues. I think you either need a new set of glasses or else to put down that glass pipe if you have read *anything* at all about Rastafarianism and don't understand that Jah is Haile Selassie. He *is* their god. Yes, the name Yah or Jah predates them, but their use of it isn't even remotely debatable. Learn to read, Tim. > > None of the variant spellings of "Jesus" had _anything_ to do with "the > name of the god" (in terms of the "jewish thing" you cite). > > The Jews did not confuse Joshua/Yeshua/Iosus/Jesus/whatever with their > desert vengeance god YHWH. Neither should you. The mainstream Jews of course did not, however, the jewish followers of him most certainly did, and he very clearly said that he and YHWH were one and the same. Or at least so we read in the New Testament. Again, learn to read, Tim, this is another point that isn't at all debatable. See John 10:30 "The Father and I are one." but that's not the only place. And just that alone was enough to get him killed. Oh, that reminds me -- another thing that the christers got wrong -- the cross. There was none. The Romans, at least of that period, didn't "crucify" anyone. The impaled them, essentially a stout post set into the ground with the top end wittled to a fine point, which went up the ass of the victim. But of course, that wouldn't look to great on the alter, would it? > > You're letting your mystical/Wiccan/pagan superstitious drivel > interfere with scholarship. > I think I said before that I was only mildly interested in wicca. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 10:12:53AM -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >Translate/transliterate is irrelevant -- you don't change people's names, > > > Ever hear of King Ferdinand of Spain? His real name was, of course, > Fernando -- Ferdinand is merely the English equivalent. Likewise, > English and Spanish speakers use different names for the same explorer > -- "Christopher Columbus" vs. "Cristobal Colon". Yes, the americans and brits are infamous for their total ignorance and disregard for the sensetivities of others. It's called the Ugly American/Ugly Brit syndrome. And it's part and parcel of why the rest of the world hates us. It's a wonder they haven't changed the name of the Prophet Mohammed to Mumbo or something equally inane. And Allah to asshole. And then of course there were those moron christer monks who in the 13th century decided to create a new name for god himself, and stuck "Jehovah" into the text. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The name of Jesus, and a novel about the Knights Templars
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 11:22:09AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > YHWH is the Tetragrammaton. Jews (and some others) believe the name of > their god may not not be spoken. Vowels are usually left out in Semitic > languages, with sometimes placeholder consonants. In this case, various > transcriptions of YHWH come out as "Yahweh," "Jehova," "Jehovah," etc. Correct, except for the Jehovah part. The use of jehovah has been entirely refuted by pretty much all bible scholars and the only translation you'll find it in is, IIRC, the King James. Jehovah's Witnesses still use it, of course, but.. > The "Yah" part is familiat to those familiar with Rastafarians, as Ja > or Jah. Well, sort of -- but actually for them Jah is just the shortened version of Jah Ras Tafari, meaning Haile Selassie, Emperor of Ethopia, direct descendant of the King David. Who was also Mesheach ha Israel, BTW, as was Solomon. And Saul, for awhile, but his annointing was taken away. Which is one of those deeply jewish things that the christers never comprehended when they co-opted Rabbi Yeshua's movement for their new religion -- they never even caught on to what messiah means, and still don't. Speaking of new religions -- gotta' love those Rastas. Their theology is a bit funky, with Haile Selassie and all, but still, what a groovin' religion, eh? > > As for silly claim that "no Jewish mother ever named her son Jesus," > Ken Brown and others have already dealt with how languages and > alphabets shift around. The shifts between consonants (like J and Y, > like D and T in German, and so on) are well known to all etymologists. Ah yes, I totally understand all that -- what you (and the christers and some others here) don't seem to grasp is the inviolate nature of the fucking *HOLY NAME* and what that means. It was, after all, a jewish thing, and -- if you want to play their game, you gotta play by their rules -- meaning you don't mess around with the name of the god. And also, you have to live it in accordance with their religious laws, times of observances, dietary, the whole bit. (snip) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 10:45:55AM +0100, Ken Brown wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > You > > don't translate names. Especially you don't change the name of the god. Read the > > Old Testament, see how incredibly many times you find phrases like "the holy > > name of the lord", "blessed be the name", "the wonderful name", etc. > > You don't even know the difference between translation and > transliteration. Translate/transliterate is irrelevant -- you don't change people's names, you especially don't change the name of the god. This was a Jewish religion, after all, and as I mentioned before, the Old Testament is simply awash with praises for the *name*. The whole name thing became so utterly important to the Jews that they wouldn't even say it aloud less they mispronounce it. So if Rabbi Yeshua was god incarnate or the son of god, it's the same thing. Changing his name in any manner would be a grevious insult. For that matter, if I went to China or Russia or Africa or whereever and they gave me a different name I'd be grossly insulted. The real reason for the name change is quite apparant if you read the early history of the christian church -- they were rabidly anti-semetic, and wanted to distance their new religion as far as possible from it's jewish origins. Same with ending observance of the Passover, the sabbath, and everything else -- things, which, BTW, Rabbi Yeshua very clearly stated should *always* be observed according to the Jewish laws. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 12:22:31PM +0100, Ken Brown wrote: > Harmon, > > your knowledge of the history of the Roman Empire & early Christianity > is flakier than Choate's physics. Go home and read some history books > instead of New Age loonies with a persecution complex. I'm not reading new age anything, simply the writings of the early church fathers and church history. All solid, well-recognized scholarly works. The same works studied in any good university biblical literature program. You don't translate names. Especially you don't change the name of the god. Read the Old Testament, see how incredibly many times you find phrases like "the holy name of the lord", "blessed be the name", "the wonderful name", etc. > > No point in refuting the heap of ignorance appended below because there > isn't enough meaningful in it to require an answer - but if it makes > you feel superior to fantasise that using a modern-style transliteration > of an Aramaic name as "Yeshua" instead of the Latin-style "Jesus" makes > you some sort of elite soul, go right ahead. The Greek spelling of the > name is Iesous anyway. And the origin is the same Hebrew name that also > comes to us as Joshua and Hosea. That sort of thing happens when you > move between alphabets. > > > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 08:43:34PM +0100, Ken Brown wrote: > > > Steve Schear wrote: > > > > > > > At 06:34 PM 3/30/2003 -0500, stuart wrote: > > > > >On Sunday, March 30, 2003, Harmon Seaver came up with this... > > > > > > > > > >You give too much credit to the Romans. Catholicism worked so well > > > > >because it is a virus, and conversion was often forced upon heathens by > > > > >their fellow countrymen. > > > > > > > > Interestingly though, Christianity started in the Holy Land but never got > > > > much traction there. > > > > > > Not true. Palestine became majority Christian quite early, as did parts > > > of Syria, Armenia and Arabia. All those places, and also Egypt, were > > > largely converted long before the Christians had any political power. > > > >No, they weren't "christian" -- they were followers of Rabbi Yeshua ben > > Yoseph ha Natzri, later called Mesheach ha Israel. No Jewish moma ever named her > > little boy Jesus, which is a Greek name, and the Jews had just spent 200 years > > of ethnic cleansing anything that looked, smelled, or spoke Greek. Jesus and > > Christ and christianity were something invented by the europeans -- a take-off > > of the Jewish messiah and with some of the early writings, heavily edited, of > > Rabbi Yeshua's apostles, but rather a different thing. When the Romans started > > trying to alter things, the groups in Palestine, Syria, etc. essentially told > > them to fuck off. > >The "epistles of Paul", for example, were written in Greek, while the earlier > > stuff was originally written in Hebrew, then very badly translated into Greek, > > essentially by the word for word substitution method, which really resulted in > > some strange passages in the new testament. Some scholars have been reverse > > translating them by the same method with good results, but of course there's a > > lot of official opposition to this (just as there is to translating the Dead Sea > > scrolls) and zero funding. > > Interestingly enough, Paul's letters would have been totally lost except for > > one man, Marcion, who collected them all. Unfortunately, he was a Gnostic, not a > > christian, and a rabid anti-semite, so he took a scissors and cut out anything > > that was at all favorable to the jews and burned it, leaving some very strange > > and heavily altered texts. > >The new testament wasn't canonized until around 400-500ad, can't remember > > exactly, but anyway long after the council at nicea where they excommunicated > > all the Palistinian, etc. followers of the Rabbi, and also after christianity > > had been made the official state religion of the empire, so any hope of the > > real authentic older teachings being included was long gone. And, of course, we > > know that pretty much as soon as they were made the official church, they went > > about destroying the old religion's temples, sacred texts, etc and persecuting > > the followers. > >Talk about "broken chains of tradition". 8-) > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver > > CyberShamanix > > http://www.cybershamanix.com -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Silly wiccan, tricks are for kids!
On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:46:46PM +0100, Ken Brown wrote:
> Completely correct. The stuff of modern neo-paganism is synthesised from
> bits of Celtic and Norse lore got from books (books written, of course,
> by Christian priests and monks who preserved the ancient pre-Christian
> stories - without them we would know nothing of the old stories); bits
> of renaissance & early modern astrology and magic; 18th & 19th century
> speculations; and stuff borrowed from India; and stuff that was just
> plain made up. Very little of it is older than about 1880, almost
> nothing older than about 1700.
Why would you think the only knowledge comes from books? The older wiccan
tradition would certainly have been an oral one, nothing written down, just as
all indig religions are. Even Judaism was totally an oral tradition for a long,
long time. Wiccan practices would have been handed down generation after
generation, probably mother to daughter.
So what do you think happens to a culture like this when persecution
occurs? It just becomes more secretive, and, since there are no institutions, no
temples or other infrastructure to be destroyed, no books to be burned, why
would anything be lost? Primarily the wiccans were healers, herbal pharmacists,
midwives, and, some seers. Certainly the herbal knowledge, healing knowledge,
midwifery, continued to be handed down -- why not the rest?
Look at Africa -- still plenty of the old religions there, despite centuries
of christer persecution. Europeans would just be a lot quieter about it, more
secretive, keeping it hidden just as homosexuality has remained largely hidden,
but even more so.
Look at South and Central America -- the church came in there with their
inquistions, burned temples, killed the priests, even banned the growing of
certain crops like amaranth because they were used in rituals. The people just
took it underground, the old religions are still very much alive. All oral
culture.
Just because people didn't declare themeselves to be wiccans for a long time
doesn't mean they weren't there -- after all, why would they? Getting burned at
the stake probably isn't much fun. Still there seems to have been quite a bit of
magical goings on around Europe through the centuries. Every read any of Viktor
Schauberger's stuff? He was an Austrian inventor who was forced to help in
Hitler's flying saucer experiments, also know as the "Water Wizard". Fascinating
books, quite bizarre stuff he talks about, a lot of which is essentially magical
in nature. Or nature relgion, however you want to take it.
>
> That doesn't mean it is bad, evil, or wrong; it does mean it probably
> has very little connection with anything our ancestors thought, said, or
> did 2,000 years ago. In a social sense it is fundamentalism's twin -
> both are reactions to a world dominated by liberal agnosticism, as it
> has been (at least amongst the educated ruling classes in western
> Europe) for the last 2 or 3 of centuries. It arose not in opposition to
> Christianity but in mourning for it.
Oh please! It's gain in popularity is more likely from disgust and an desire
to find something real.
> And if Christianity and her tomboy
> sister Islam are getting more powerful again, it might well be that
> neo-paganism, like the old-fashioned sort, is on the way out.
>
I'd say it's more the opposite.
> There is certainly no significant unbroken pagan or magical tradition in
> Western Europe.
And how would you know that? Because they didn't preach it on the street or
have grand cathederals?
>
> Mediaeval and early modern magical practices in Western Europe were
> mostly post-Christian, or para-Christian, rather than survivals from
> paganism, and those that were survivals came through the *literary*
> tradition rather than through folk memory. Many of them arose in a
> Christian/Jewish context from a cobbling together of Classical and
> Cabbalistic sources with folk practices derived from debased versions of
> Catholic liturgy - people excluded from a theological understanding of
> Catholic ritual developed folk traditions that gave a magical or
> superstitious meaning to the rituals.
>
> Two books to read if anyone is interested: "Religion and the Decline of
> Magic" by Keith Thomas, and "The Stripping of the Altars" by Eamonn
> Duffy (the latter is basically an anti-Protestant polemic, but the vast
> amount of information in it about 15th century ritual makes fascinating
> reading, if you like that sort of thing)
I'm sure academics wouldn't have a clue as to whether or not a secret
religion was handed down thru the ages. After all, how much do they know even
about fairly open groups like Masons and Rosecrucians?
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 12:16:20PM +0100, Vincent Penquerc'h wrote: > >I don't think they will need to fight us, just impose > > sanctions by the UN, or > > even just a world boycott of the US. That and a few suicide > > bombers in the US > > now and again. How many suicide bombers in airports would it > > take to finish off > > the US air industry? The rest of the world is perfectly > > capable of destroying > > the US without any real military action. > > I doubt those govts would be able to hide their traces well enough > for the CIA not to have wind of this. Then, the US have two options: > either officially yell, and maybe militarily attack (they'd have a > huge popular support for this), or let the CIA do the thing, as in > Chile, for instance. Leads to a war of civilian bombings ? Official > yells would be of course accompanied with sanctions, probably voted > at UNSC unanimity (minus a veto if the responsbile country is in > UNSC itself, but I doubt that'd change much anyway). > Something that could (though not very probable either) avoid these > consequences is "unofficial" actions, by people without any state > connection whatsoever (or company, etc). But even then, look at > what happened to Afghanistan. Granted, a EU country might be a bit > more hard of a target to attack, but it would be easier for the CIA > to do the same kind of covert attacks there. I doubt many countries > want to get involved into that. The suicide bombers will come here entirely on their own for the most part, or perhaps with the help of Al-queda type groups. There will be no country to retaliate against. That alone could easily send us into a deep depression -- by and large the US public is far too soft to deal with the effects of that. Or do you mean that the CIA will seek to undermine the governments of countries that boycott the US? It might not even be a gov't action, just a lot of angry people around the world. After all, what do we produce that anyone really needs that isn't made more cheaply elsewhere, other than possibly food? And many countries are already boycotting our GM food crops. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV
I don't think they will need to fight us, just impose sanctions by the UN, or even just a world boycott of the US. That and a few suicide bombers in the US now and again. How many suicide bombers in airports would it take to finish off the US air industry? The rest of the world is perfectly capable of destroying the US without any real military action. On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 06:10:02AM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Duncan Frissell wrote: > > > So when the rest of the world retaliates with all their military power that > > the US fails to appreciate, what strategic war plan does the rest of the > > world have for handling a couple thousand nukes? Just trying to figure > > their options? > > Russia, China and, France all have nukes and delivery capability. If > the US wants to retaliate with nukes, they'll get nuked in return. MAD > works. > > Patience, persistence, truth, > Dr. mike -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 08:43:34PM +0100, Ken Brown wrote: > Steve Schear wrote: > > > At 06:34 PM 3/30/2003 -0500, stuart wrote: > > >On Sunday, March 30, 2003, Harmon Seaver came up with this... > > > > > >You give too much credit to the Romans. Catholicism worked so well > > >because it is a virus, and conversion was often forced upon heathens by > > >their fellow countrymen. > > > > Interestingly though, Christianity started in the Holy Land but never got > > much traction there. > > Not true. Palestine became majority Christian quite early, as did parts > of Syria, Armenia and Arabia. All those places, and also Egypt, were > largely converted long before the Christians had any political power. No, they weren't "christian" -- they were followers of Rabbi Yeshua ben Yoseph ha Natzri, later called Mesheach ha Israel. No Jewish moma ever named her little boy Jesus, which is a Greek name, and the Jews had just spent 200 years of ethnic cleansing anything that looked, smelled, or spoke Greek. Jesus and Christ and christianity were something invented by the europeans -- a take-off of the Jewish messiah and with some of the early writings, heavily edited, of Rabbi Yeshua's apostles, but rather a different thing. When the Romans started trying to alter things, the groups in Palestine, Syria, etc. essentially told them to fuck off. The "epistles of Paul", for example, were written in Greek, while the earlier stuff was originally written in Hebrew, then very badly translated into Greek, essentially by the word for word substitution method, which really resulted in some strange passages in the new testament. Some scholars have been reverse translating them by the same method with good results, but of course there's a lot of official opposition to this (just as there is to translating the Dead Sea scrolls) and zero funding. Interestingly enough, Paul's letters would have been totally lost except for one man, Marcion, who collected them all. Unfortunately, he was a Gnostic, not a christian, and a rabid anti-semite, so he took a scissors and cut out anything that was at all favorable to the jews and burned it, leaving some very strange and heavily altered texts. The new testament wasn't canonized until around 400-500ad, can't remember exactly, but anyway long after the council at nicea where they excommunicated all the Palistinian, etc. followers of the Rabbi, and also after christianity had been made the official state religion of the empire, so any hope of the real authentic older teachings being included was long gone. And, of course, we know that pretty much as soon as they were made the official church, they went about destroying the old religion's temples, sacred texts, etc and persecuting the followers. Talk about "broken chains of tradition". 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 10:09:17PM -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >>And what makes you think things would have been any better in the > >>absence of Christianity? > > > >You've heard of the Inquistion perhaps? > > > The Catholic Church (which carried out the Inquisition, in cooperation > with various governments) is not the whole of Christianity. There are > also the Orthodox churches, the Protestant denominations, and various > other branches. Duh! The witch-burnings carried out by the protestants was just another part of that holocaust. As is the persecution of wiccans and other pagans today, primarily conducted by protestant fundy christers. > > Furthermore, you haven't given any evidence that what happened in Europe > was any worse than what has happened under countless tyrants the world > over. Nor do you account for the crucial role the Christian religion > played in abolishing slavery. If you read the history, there were just as many christer theologists and ministers arguing *for* slavery as there were against. > > >Or the War On Some Drugs, the modern inquisition? > > You won't find a prohibition against using drugs, nor a requirement to > persecute those who use them, anywhere in the Christian scriptures. > Granted, but the entire christer establishment is behind the War On Some Drugs. And, if you take a look at the history of that war, and the War On Some Relgions carried out in this hemispere from 1492 onward, guess who promulgates it? > >Any monotheistic religion is by definition exclusive > > Exclusive as to what they consider proper object of worship, yes. > > >persecutorial of others. > > "By definition persecutorial" is bullshit. > How so? If there is only "one god" and "one way", then all others are wrong, and need to be stamped out. Christer proselytizing and missions are by definition persecution of others. In the US, for example, the christers got the government to even totally forbid native americans to practice or teach their religions. The massacre at Wounded Knee was to stop a religious ceremony, for example. > I am no longer a religious person of any sort myself, but I know from > personal experience what real-life Christians are like, Oh, so do I. > as opposed to > the cartoon caricature you seem to carry in your head. I've experienced > both the good and the bad. > Do you have any real experience with > Christians, as opposed to the stereotypes promulgated on TV and in the > movies by bigoted screenwriters and producers? > Ah yes, as a matter of fact. I was a fundamentalist for a good many years, member in good standing (probably still am, for that matter, AFAIK) of the Assembly of God church. Babtized in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, the whole bit. I was also involved in a street ministry years ago. And if you checked my resume on my website, you might notice I have a degree from the UW in religious studies, with an emphasis on biblical literature. > One good thing that Christianity and other religions do is instill a > sense of right and wrong in people and thereby promote adherence to > basic standards of conduct. Baaahhhhhhaaa ROFL As Christianity (and religion in general) > has waned in America, no adequate replacement for this function has > emerged. Perhaps as a result, American culture no longer values honor > and honesty. It never did. The ultra-religious christers who landed at Plymouth Rock had no compunction against robbing and murdering native americans, or burning witches. And my forefathers, at least on my father's side, were among them. On my mother's side were some of the natives getting ripped off. If you look at early american history, it's pretty clear there was not a great deal of morality, within or without the church. (more drivel snipped) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Silly wiccan, tricks are for kids!
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 08:06:54PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 06:06 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 07:44:43PM -0500, stuart wrote: > >>Yes, wicca is a word with old roots. > >> > >>The inventor of wicca, Gerald Gardner, had a very good idea looking up > >>the old english word for 'witch' when he concocted his story in the > >>50's. > > > > I have no clue who Gerald Gardner is, but you seriously need to do > >some > >research on the subject if you think he "invented" anything. > > I learned a lot about Gardner when I was doing my research as the First > Internet Witch Trial Judge. That you don't know who he is tells me you > are _very_ lightly educated on this issue. Yes, you're right, I have little interest in the latter day religious movements, especially in Britain. And I'm only peripherally interested in ceremonial magick and ritual anyway -- always thought it rather akin to "praying" by reading a passage out of a psalter. If the spirit isn't powerful enough to overcome the person by storm and give whatever utterance is needed, what good is it? And along that vein, why would any genuine spiritual movement have need of dogma, rite, or ritual handed down from ages past. The spirits themselves are capable of instructing the seeker. Or so you'd think -- although I know that you, Tim, don't believe in such. At any rate, the concept that "modern wicca" has no validity because the chain of teachings was somehow broken somewhere along the line is laughable. Those who think that Gardner was the creator of latterday wicca might ask themselves what all those covens were doing who held regular ceremony doing spiritual warfare against the Third Reich during WWII, for instance. I think whatever Gardner was doing was more like coming out of the closet, eh? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Silly wiccan, tricks are for kids!
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 07:44:43PM -0500, stuart wrote: > Yes, wicca is a word with old roots. > > The inventor of wicca, Gerald Gardner, had a very good idea looking up > the old english word for 'witch' when he concocted his story in the > 50's. I have no clue who Gerald Gardner is, but you seriously need to do some research on the subject if you think he "invented" anything. He may well have started his own coven from scratch, but there are definitely wiccans and druids who can trace their lineage far back into antiquity. You might find it interesting, for example, to know that William Blake was the Arch-Druid of his time, in fact testified in court about it. For that matter, you might take a look at the spiritual activities of the Third Reich. "Those of you who think National Socialism is a political movement know nothing about it. We are establishing a new religious order, and the SS are the high priests." Adolph Hitler Or perhaps a little closer to home, check out Aleister Crowley, William Yeats, and all that crowd. Magick, alchemy, the craft of the wise, are all long practiced spiritual paths, certainly as valid, probably even more, than christianity. How about vodun and santeria -- do you consider that to be just bullshit as well? I suppose it's pretty easy to say that about any and all religions, especially those you don't know anything about. Just because you've met people professing to be "wiccans" who don't seem to have any spiritual power is pretty irrelevant -- how many professed christers have you met who are exactly the same? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Final solutions (was Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort)
I still think the best solution is just huge tanker planes full of LSD spraying combative groups/areas once a week. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 10:55:46PM -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >>Encouraging the imperial persecution of a religious minority? > >> > >Well, it looks at this point that it would have been a reasonable > >trade-off, given the millions who have been tortured and murdered in > >Europe and the Americas since the Council of Nicea in 425 by the offspring > >of those surviving christers. > > > And what makes you think things would have been any better in the > absence of Christianity? You've heard of the Inquistion perhaps? Or the War On Some Drugs, the modern inquisition? Very, very few religions, other than the judeo/christer/islamic, are interested in forced conversions, or even do any proselytizing at all. Nor do they usually persecute women. The entire christer theology makes persecution inevitable. Any monotheistic religion is by definition exclusive and persecutorial of others. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 10:15:46AM +0100, Steve Mynott wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > >On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 01:25:47PM -0500, stuart wrote: > > [..] > > >>Apparently you know nothing of the history of Britain and Ireland. > > > > > >No, I do. > > No you don't. > > > But of course, the problems really pre-date all that, going back to > > when the > >christer Romans came and killed off the Druids and Wiccans who wouldn't > >bend the > >knee to conversion, as they did in the rest of Europe. > > Three problems with that:- > > 1. The Romans never invaded Ireland Yes, I was mixing up the Roman church with the original Roman invasion of the Isles. The invasion of the Roman church was later, but they did, in fact, persecute the Druids and Wiccans as well. > > 2. The Romans which invaded mainland Britain weren't Christian (if > that's what you mean by "christer"). They worshiped many Gods with the > cult of Mithras being popular with the army. You're right, they weren't christers at that point, however they most certainly did try to eradicate the Druids: Dealing with the druids. Part of this mopping up took the form of eradicating the Druids. As a rule the Romans were very tolerant of the religions of the peoples they conquered (hurrah for the Romans!). However, the Druids represented not just a religious hierarchy, but real political and administrative authority among the Celts. And to give the Romans their due, they seem to have been genuinely horrified by what they considered the grisly and uncivilized practices of the Druids. http://www.britainexpress.com/History/Roman_invasion.htm > > 3. "Wicca" is a modern invention. Hardly. WEIK- [2]. In words connectid with magic and religious notions (in Germanic and Latin). 1. Germanic suffixed form *WIH-L- in Old English WIGLE, divination, sorcery, akin to the Germanic source of Old French GUILE, cunning trickery: GUILE. 2. Germanic expressive form *WIKK- in: a. Old English WICCA, wizard, and WICCE, witch: WITCH; b. Old English WICCIAN, to cast a spell: BEWITCH. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 06:34:08PM -0500, stuart wrote: > > First of all, 'wicca' is some bullshit thought up by a delusional old > man less than 75 years ago, the only persecution of wiccans the world > has seen is when they get made fun of in high school. Don't know where you got this idea from, the First Papal Inquisition in 1232 was specifically for witches and sorcerers. And a bit later, in the Burning Times (1450-1700 roughly) the church burned and hanged hundreds of thousands of people, mostly women witches or alleged witches. But witches (wiccans) predate history and are found in most ancient cultures around the world. > > Second, the Romans had an incredibly difficult time in Great Britain. > They managed to traverse most of England, but Ireland they barely even > visited. And Scotland, well, they were so scared of us they built walls > to keep us out. :) > > You give too much credit to the Romans. Catholicism worked so well > because it is a virus, and conversion was often forced upon heathens by > their fellow countrymen. > Whether by the Romans or their fellow countryman matters little, it was the Roman Church just the same doing the forcing, which was the point. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 02:09:11PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 01:15 PM 03/30/2003 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > IIRC, the protestants aren't Irish, they are Brits, the remainder of > >the brit > >occupying forces. The Irish were essentially slaves of the brits for > >centuries. > > You don't remember correctly. Most of the Protestants in Ulster > were moved there in the 1700s from Scotland during the conquests there. > It took care of two problems at once - displacing a lot of the Irish, > and getting a lot of uncooperative Scots out of Scotland. > ahh, that's what it was. I knew they weren't Irish at any rate. > > But of course, the problems really pre-date all that, going back to > when the > >christer Romans came and killed off the Druids and Wiccans who wouldn't > >bend the > >knee to conversion, as they did in the rest of Europe. > > While there was some of that, there wasn't much, > particularly in Scandinavia - Norse Odinism was a pretty depressing > religion, > and the population converted at least nominally very quickly, > though it took a while to get concepts like "Don't kill" and "Don't steal" > accepted as widely as "Don't sacrifice people to the old gods", > given that viking was a standard part of the Viking economy. > The number of women, in particular, who were murdered by the church is pretty high, not just during the initial "conversion" but also during the following Inquistion. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 01:25:47PM -0500, stuart wrote: > On Saturday, March 29, 2003, Harmon Seaver came up with this... > HS>Yeah, too bad they don't feel the same way about Ireland. The > HS> Irish have been trying to kick the Brits out for what, 400 years? > HS> At least. > > Apparently you know nothing of the history of Britain and Ireland. No, I do. > > The story of Britain and Ireland is not simply one occupying another. > The Irish are not one mass of people, they are two: Protestant and > Catholic. Before they became a part of the Kingdom they were Catholic. > After, many Irish converted to Protestantism. IIRC, the protestants aren't Irish, they are Brits, the remainder of the brit occupying forces. The Irish were essentially slaves of the brits for centuries. But of course, the problems really pre-date all that, going back to when the christer Romans came and killed off the Druids and Wiccans who wouldn't bend the knee to conversion, as they did in the rest of Europe. (snip) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Skeletons at the gates
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 09:01:56AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 08:42 AM, Ed Norton wrote: > > >I haven't seen anyone mention this here, and wonder if it's being > >reported out there "West of the Hudson"... > > > >Apparently, a large traffic-stopping protest here in NYC was performed > >using a method I hadn't heard of before. Basically, the demonstrators > >handcuffed themselves together, but inside large PVC tubing in which > >their arms were encased. So in order to clear out the demonstrators, > >cops pretty much have to cart off a tied-together mass of 100 > >demonstrators, without any real hope of breaking them apart in any > >short amount of time. > > Those who handcuff themselves to gates, to trees, inside PVC pipes, > whatever > > ...should simply be left that way. Their screams for water, for > release, and then eventually their dying moans, could be broadcast on > the Internet. Maybe even a video feed of one of the perps trying to > gnaw his own hand off. > > I came to this realization when a pair of demonstrators chained > themselves to a gate at a lumber company in Northern California. "You > made your bed, now you can lie in it." > Actually, they always have support people to bring them food and water. No problem. It's a fairly effective tactic. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 12:22:41AM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 04:36:08PM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: > > Are there specific facts on that Web page that you believe to be in error? > > Did you read the hilarious description of FCF and EFF? I assume not, > if you had to ask... It seems to be making the point that the FCF is not truthful about it's programs, the recipients of their support, and is generally not forthcoming, indeed, even secretive, about it's activities, which seems more than a little strange for a group promoting liberty. I haven't seen anything at all critical of EFF, they're using that example to point up how FCF operates. FCF looks to me to be a pretty creepy bunch like all the christer right. I get the same gag reflex reading about them as I do seeing a picture or hearing the voice of Asscruft. Or Dubya, Rumdum, Farwell, Roberts, etc. Ick. The whole bunch really creeps me out, like watching a really nasty horror flick. Too bad the Romans didn't finish the job of feeding that lot to the lions a couple of milleniums ago. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Skeletons at the gates
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 04:56:00PM -0500, Steve Furlong wrote: > On Sunday 30 March 2003 15:13, Tyler Durden wrote: > > Uh...I don't think Tim May gets the picture here. > > > > Think a few dozen PVC-groups consisting of 100 or more each, lying in > > the middle of, say, 5th avenue, or at the mouth of the midtown > > tunnel. Oh, and say it happens at 8:00AM on a Weekday. > > > > The result is a significant impact on the local economy (at least), > > and a city that is partially paralyzed for half a day. > > Hey, finally a legitimate use of SUVs for people who never go off-road! > My commuter bug would get hung up when I drove over the protoplasmic > speed bumps, but the big tires of a 4WD SUV would have no trouble. Ever heard of caltrops? I hear it's a new growth cottage industry. Likewise the cheap EMP devices just talked about here. I've been thinking of building one of those for some time just to zap the loud bikes and boomboxes. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 01:34:38PM -0500, stuart wrote: > On Sunday, March 30, 2003, Harmon Seaver came up with this... > HS> Too bad the Romans didn't finish the job of feeding that lot to the lions > HS> a couple of milleniums ago. > > Encouraging the imperial persecution of a religious minority? Well, it looks at this point that it would have been a reasonable trade-off, given the millions who have been tortured and murdered in Europe and the Americas since the Council of Nicea in 425 by the offspring of those surviving christers. And considering all those from Africa murdered and enslaved here by christers, And especially now, considering the millions enslaved as we speak in the US by christers, and what we can clearly see about to happen with the new christer crusades. Sometimes the few must be sacrificed for the common good, eh? 8-) Obviously the christers, past and present, see it that way. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Skeletons at the gates
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 11:14:56AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 09:35 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 09:01:56AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > >>Those who handcuff themselves to gates, to trees, inside PVC pipes, > >>whatever > >> > >>...should simply be left that way. Their screams for water, for > >>release, and then eventually their dying moans, could be broadcast on > >>the Internet. Maybe even a video feed of one of the perps trying to > >>gnaw his own hand off. > >> > >>I came to this realization when a pair of demonstrators chained > >>themselves to a gate at a lumber company in Northern California. "You > >>made your bed, now you can lie in it." > >> > > > > Actually, they always have support people to bring them food and > >water. No > >problem. It's a fairly effective tactic. > > > > > You misunderstand completely. Two words: > > "Private Property." > > If Randy Redwood and Sally Sprucetree chain themselves to my property, > I don't have to let "support people" enter my property, my office, my > facilities. > > No, I think it's you who is misunderstanding. What private property? The demos he was talking about originally were on public property, downtown NYC. And, for that matter, the vast majority of EarthFirst! actions are on public property, like the Nat'l Forests. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Skeletons at the gates
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 03:13:42PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > Uh...I don't think Tim May gets the picture here. > > Think a few dozen PVC-groups consisting of 100 or more each, lying in the > middle of, say, 5th avenue, or at the mouth of the midtown tunnel. Oh, and > say it happens at 8:00AM on a Weekday. > > The result is a significant impact on the local economy (at least), and a > city that is partially paralyzed for half a day. > > -TD > > According to indymedia, those SF protests last week seemed to be pretty effectively shutting down the financial district even without lockdowns, thru sheer force of numbers. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Sunday Times article on civilian murder?
On indymedia, this quote: The british journalist Mark Franchetti (Sunday Times) reports today, that after killing 12 Iraqi civilians, among them a 5 year old girl, on a bridge at Nasirija, a US corporal, active in that killing told him that "Iraqi people are a disease and we are the chemotherapy". In addition he told the journalist that "he hates that country". Sounds quite intriguing, but I can't get the actual article from the Sunday Times page: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,2086,00.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-628258,00.html Does anyone have the full article? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
"Weyrich, a member of the extreme Catholic right and a professed admirer of the pro-Nazi demagogue Father Coughlin, has founded or cofounded numerous right-wing organizations, including the Moral Majority." http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipients/free_congress.htm Yup. A real sweet guy, this Weyrich. Father Coughlin -- isn't "christian love" just a marvel to behold? And wouldn't the world be a much nicer place today if the Romans *had* finished that job? Thanks for alerting us about these demons, Declan. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: PVC Tubes and NYC Demonstrators
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 11:42:41AM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > I haven't seen anyone mention this here, and wonder if it's being reported > out there "West of the Hudson"... > > Apparently, a large traffic-stopping protest here in NYC was performed > using a method I hadn't heard of before. Basically, the demonstrators > handcuffed themselves together, but inside large PVC tubing in which their > arms were encased. So in order to clear out the demonstrators, cops pretty > much have to cart off a tied-together mass of 100 demonstrators, without > any real hope of breaking them apart in any short amount of time. > Yeah, that's an old EarthFirst! tactic. Called a "sleeping dragon" EarthFirst! has developed some pretty inovative techniques like this, treesits, tripod sits, etc. And, of course, the fascists have declared these tools to be in and of themselves illegal. http://www.a16.org/feature.cfm?ID=11 -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 09:06:27AM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Tim wrote: > >To cut to the chase, several of my former friends are calling me a > >traitor and claiming to have reported me to the FBI for my statements > >about how the war machine ought to be hacked and undermined. > > See below. A so-called "conservative" group is also tossing the term > traitor about. Often these groups serve as early indictators of what their > friends in power in the Bush administration think. Remember that Free > Congress' Weyrich helped push Ashcroft's nomination through the Senate when > it was in danger of dying... > Here's an interesting site about the FCF http://www.politicalamazon.com/fcf.html -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
Re: Trials for those undermining the war effort?
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 04:01:12PM -0800, jet wrote: > At 18:42 -0500 2003/03/29, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >I went to the Timonium hamfest and computer show today (surprisingly > >good, even with the rain). On the way back, listened to an NPR Baghdad > >correspondent report that the mood in the city had subtly changed -- > >basically that since Saddam didn't seem to be getting his ass kicked, > >the locals now seem willing to fight, if not for Saddam himself, at > >least for the sake of their country. Door-to-door: Let's do it! > > Last week on BBC World, I heard a British military analyst say that while in his > teens he was willing to do almost anything to remove Thatcher from office, he would > have gladly taken up arms in the defense of Britain if the army of another country > tried to remove her from power. Yeah, too bad they don't feel the same way about Ireland. The Irish have been trying to kick the Brits out for what, 400 years? At least. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com We are now in America's Darkest Hour. http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org hoka hey!
