Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[David Christensen]

On 5/28/24 17:10, John Hasler wrote:

David writes:

AIUI in the USA for residential 120/240V single-phase three-wire service
drops, electrical utilities either run all three phases along the
distribution line or they run two phases.  Running one phase and a neutral
instead of two phases would reduce the power by the square root of 3


Here in rural Wisconsin the 7200V distribution line leaves the
substation as three phases and a grounded neutral.  This eventually
branches out into three single phase lines consisting of a phase and a
grounded neutral.  The pole pigs are connected phase to neutral.



Interesting.  STFW I found an article and a web site that clarifies the 
above arrangements and more:


https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/primary-distribution-circuits


David

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Max Nikulin]

On 29/05/2024 00:51, Michael Grant wrote:

The culprits that seemed to be causing the massive dependencies were
libsasl2-2 and libsasl2-modules-db.  Though not libsasl2-modules which
i also have installed.


With adjusted priorities these packages are not an issue for "apt upgrade".

More serious concern may be whether data written by newer versions are 
readable by older applications or whether some command in package 
scripts can fail due to downgrade of libc or some other library. That is 
why I consider downgrade as a last resort option. Trying it you should 
be prepared to a severe failure and clean reinstall.


Actually the config I posted is incomplete. There is a pitfall similar 
to APT::Default-Release (and -t option). Besides bookworm (or stable) it 
is necessary to explicitly specify bookworm-security and 
bookworm-updates (stable-security, stable-updates). Anyway it can be 
easily spotted in


apt policy

output that has to be run to check effect of changed config files.

Re: After upgrade, what do you do about "removed" and "obsolete" packages ?

[The Wanderer]

On 2024-05-28 at 15:02, Marco Moock wrote:

> Am 28.05.2024 um 20:38:46 Uhr schrieb Thomas Schmitt:

>> What does "[residual-config]" mean ?
> 
> Packages include system-wide configuration files. If packages are 
> removed, this configuration will not be deleted. You need to purge
> such packages to remove it.

On brief analysis, it looks like this reflects the same status which is
reported in the Status line of the output of 'dpkg -s PACKAGENAME' with
the string "deinstall ok config-files". YMMV, but I find that intuitive
enough: the package used to be installed, and isn't anymore, but its
config files have been left behind.

(Note that if you have the package installed from multiple
architectures, you will apparently need to specify the arch qualifier
suffix to the package name in order for the command to not error out.)

I don't remember using that dpkg command very often, but I do remember
seeing that string often enough in the past, so there are probably other
commands which will also report it if applicable.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Uninstalling a package and its entourage

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2024-05-27 18:42:48 +0300, mindaugascelies...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 27, 2024 5:59:55 PM EEST Nicolas George wrote:
> > Eben King (12024-05-27):
> > > Is there an easier way to uninstall a package and everything it brought in
> > > at one swell foop?  Thanks.
> > 
> > The packages you did not choose to install but were installed as a
> > consequence are shown by apt-get when you do almost anything:
> > 
> > The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
> > required: 
> > 
> > Regards,
> Hello.
> 
> You can use one simple command: sudo apt autoremove --purge

For various reasons, this may leave automatically installed packages
behind.

First, for symmetry with "apt install", you would need

APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false";

Still, a package could have been automatically installed due to a
dependency, but it may be in another OR dependency, in which case
apt will not propose its removal, even though the OR dependency
would still be satisfied.

So, you should either look at the logs or keep trace of the packages
that are installed before installation of new packages.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

timeout in shutdown, mutt killed by SIGKILL

[Vincent Lefevre]

During the latest shutdown:

May 29 01:55:05 qaa systemd[1]: Stopping session-2.scope - Session 2 of User 
vinc17...
[...]
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: session-2.scope: Stopping timed out. Killing.
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: session-2.scope: Killing process 2990 (mutt) 
with signal SIGKILL.
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: session-2.scope: Failed with result 'timeout'.
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: Stopped session-2.scope - Session 2 of User 
vinc17.
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: session-2.scope: Consumed 8h 17min 54.832s CPU 
time.
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: Stopping systemd-logind.service - User Login 
Management...
May 29 01:55:26 qaa systemd[1]: Stopping user@1000.service - User Manager for 
UID 1000...
[...]

Note: I had set DefaultTimeoutStopSec=20s because then is normally
sufficient.

The mutt process was running in GNU Screen. The current mailbox
was just a local one. Mutt does no network connections (I do not
use IMAP). I general, I quit it before logging out, but this time,
it seems that I forgot.

But I don't understand why there was a timeout. Does this mean that
mutt didn't react to SIGTERM? Any reason?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[John Hasler]

David writes:
> AIUI in the USA for residential 120/240V single-phase three-wire service
> drops, electrical utilities either run all three phases along the
> distribution line or they run two phases.  Running one phase and a neutral
> instead of two phases would reduce the power by the square root of 3

Here in rural Wisconsin the 7200V distribution line leaves the
substation as three phases and a grounded neutral.  This eventually
branches out into three single phase lines consisting of a phase and a
grounded neutral.  The pole pigs are connected phase to neutral.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[David Christensen]

On 5/28/24 12:47, gene heskett wrote:

On 5/28/24 15:29, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Tuesday 28 May 2024 01:49:52 pm Paul M Foster wrote:

I've never see a 3 phase in a house. Common in commercial/industrial,
though.
Residential installations (talking in the US here) typically involve 
*one* transformer tapping a single phase out of the three that are up 
there on the pole.  The secondary is center-tapped,  and it's that 
point which is grounded at the service entrance.  Running 3-phase 
power requires *three* transformers up on the pole,  much more in the 
way of expense if you want that for some reason,  and I don't know of 
anybody that does that.  Even those who are into having some 
nontrivial machinery around seem these days to use a VFD to give them 
multiple phases at the machine,  rather than going through the expense 
of having it run in from the pole...


And here you have it from another CET.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.



AIUI in the USA for residential 120/240V single-phase three-wire service 
drops, electrical utilities either run all three phases along the 
distribution line or they run two phases.  Running one phase and a 
neutral instead of two phases would reduce the power by the square root 
of 3.



Running one phase and using the Earth as the return conductor is very 
dangerous and not modern practice.



David

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[David Christensen]

On 5/28/24 00:28, Roger Price wrote:
I wired my place Cat5. A lot of work, and I regretted it.  I live in the 
hills behind Nice, an area with a lot of lightning.  The overhead line 
to my place took a hit and thanks to the Cat5 conductivity I lost 
equipment.



If your electrical utility uses pole-mounted distribution lines, 
transformers, service drops, etc., and lightning strikes the 
high-voltage conductors, there will be a surge on the customer service 
conductors that places persons and property at risk.  If lightning jumps 
to the customer service conductors, then the risk to persons and 
property can be extreme.



How do you know that the damage your equipment suffered was due to the 
Cat 5e wiring and not due to the electrical power conductors?



David

Re[2]: "Repeaters", etc.

[Michael Grant]

From "Monte Milanuk" 

To debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date 28/05/2024 22:42:07
Subject Re: "Repeaters", etc.



On 5/28/24 11:03, rtnetz...@windstream.net wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Paul M Foster" 


I've never see a 3 phase in a house.

Quite some years ago my father inquired about getting
3 phase power to his house to power a rather husky lathe.
The answers were distributed between "impossible"
and "prohibitively expensive".



Phase converters are usually the answer for that sort of thing. Whether old 
electro-mechanical (rotary), or newer static inverter designs, there are 
solutions out there that will get the job done a lot cheaper than convincing 
the utility to run a three-phase service drop to a residence.

Ironically, used three-phase equipment like lathes, milling machines, large 
band saws, planers, etc. are relatively 'cheap as chips' on the second-hand 
market.

I have a friend in the US, who has a large milling machine that takes 
3-phase.  He wired he 1st phase direct to the outlet, then the 2nd phase 
through a motor which just sits there spinning with nothing connected to 
it.  And I think from memory the 3rd phase isn't connected at all.  This 
is apparently enough to run the machine.  The motor, not motor 
generator, is just an AC motor, is enough to offset the phase that it 
fools the machine into working.  I may not have all the details correct, 
if anyone is interested, shoot me a message offline and I'll chase him 
down and get the details of what he did.


I think we're way off topic now...

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Monte Milanuk]

On 5/28/24 11:03, rtnetz...@windstream.net wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Paul M Foster" 


I've never see a 3 phase in a house.

Quite some years ago my father inquired about getting
3 phase power to his house to power a rather husky lathe.
The answers were distributed between "impossible"
and "prohibitively expensive".



Phase converters are usually the answer for that sort of thing. Whether 
old electro-mechanical (rotary), or newer static inverter designs, there 
are solutions out there that will get the job done a lot cheaper than 
convincing the utility to run a three-phase service drop to a residence.


Ironically, used three-phase equipment like lathes, milling machines, 
large band saws, planers, etc. are relatively 'cheap as chips' on the 
second-hand market.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Monte Milanuk]

On 5/28/24 10:11, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Brad Rogers  wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:31:29 +0100
"mick.crane"  wrote:

Hello mick.crane,


Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or
did I misunderstand it.

Yes, there is.  I believe you're thinking of powerline adaptors.  They
do require everything be on the same circuit, however.

I have a powerline adapter (Devolo units). There's no such restriction,
as far as I know. My powerline transmitter and receiver are certainly
on different circuits.


The way electrical wiring is done in the UK often means separate
floors are on different circuits, and in larger properties, each
floor might be on two (or more) circuits, making it difficult, at
best, to get the whole building networked this way.  And that's
assuming ring circuits, if everything is on a radial, you're stymied.

Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
better over ALL the circuits.



Yes and no.  Most houses in the US are wired 'single phase as well... 
but they tap off 240vac, and then split that to two 120v 'legs'.  As 
long as all the powerline ethernet devices are plugged into circuits on 
the same 120v leg, they'll talk together just fine.  If they are spread 
across both legs... not so much. There's literally a coil of the xfmr up 
on the pole (or padmount) between those two sections, and it blocks HF 
comm waves pretty effectively.


Although... in theory... i.e. it occurs to me but i haven't tried it 
personally... you *might* be able to  have plugs in both 'legs' 
connected to a switch, and be able to bridge them that way.  Might be 
some overarching electrical/grounding considerations worth thinking 
about further, though.  More likely the immediate 'problem' is finding 
two circuits conveniently close to one another physically, yet on the 
separate legs of the mains.  Not extremely likely, and it'd probably be 
far easier to pursue other solutions.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[gene heskett]

On 5/28/24 15:29, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Tuesday 28 May 2024 01:49:52 pm Paul M Foster wrote:

I've never see a 3 phase in a house. Common in commercial/industrial,
though.
  
Residential installations (talking in the US here) typically involve *one* transformer tapping a single phase out of the three that are up there on the pole.  The secondary is center-tapped,  and it's that point which is grounded at the service entrance.  Running 3-phase power requires *three* transformers up on the pole,  much more in the way of expense if you want that for some reason,  and I don't know of anybody that does that.  Even those who are into having some nontrivial machinery around seem these days to use a VFD to give them multiple phases at the machine,  rather than going through the expense of having it run in from the pole...


And here you have it from another CET.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[gene heskett]

On 5/28/24 14:23, rtnetz...@windstream.net wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Paul M Foster" 


I've never see a 3 phase in a house.


Quite some years ago my father inquired about getting
3 phase power to his house to power a rather husky lathe.
The answers were distributed between "impossible"
and "prohibitively expensive".

This is economics for the power company. They may have all 3 phases 
available at the substation, but running all 3 phases to every pole in 
the village simply is not done. They balance loads by feeding phase A up 
this street, phase B up a different street, and phase C up yet another 
street, so the quoted costs will usually include the cost of 
constructing ways to get all 3 phases to your pole. The distance might 
be a mile or more. For one customer the cost WILL be phenomenal. You'll 
be $100k ahead to just buy a vfd big enough to run that lathe. That may 
require a bigger can on your pole and 750mcm drops from there to your 
house, but that is still only 2% of the cost to bring in all three 
phases to your pole.


Its been my experience that the normal electrician does NOT understand 3 
phase power at all. I've had to go behind them fixing their mistakes 
quite a few times. One such instance threatened to burn down the tv 
station every time we turned on the studio lights to do a newscast. What 
I found when I opened the covers to the breakers was enough to discuss 
the perps genealogy in flowery terms, at length. I am not an 
electrician, I'm a CET. A much rarer bird.


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Tuesday 28 May 2024 01:49:52 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> I've never see a 3 phase in a house. Common in commercial/industrial,
> though.
 
Residential installations (talking in the US here) typically involve *one* 
transformer tapping a single phase out of the three that are up there on the 
pole.  The secondary is center-tapped,  and it's that point which is grounded 
at the service entrance.  Running 3-phase power requires *three* transformers 
up on the pole,  much more in the way of expense if you want that for some 
reason,  and I don't know of anybody that does that.  Even those who are into 
having some nontrivial machinery around seem these days to use a VFD to give 
them multiple phases at the machine,  rather than going through the expense of 
having it run in from the pole...


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[eben]

On 5/28/24 14:03, rtnetz...@windstream.net wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Paul M Foster" 


I've never see a 3 phase in a house.


Quite some years ago my father inquired about getting
3 phase power to his house to power a rather husky lathe.
The answers were distributed between "impossible"
and "prohibitively expensive".


Yeah.  Every USan I've heard of who uses 3-phase power in the home gets it
from single-phase, either by VFD or rotary or something like that.

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[eben]

On 5/28/24 14:04, Paul M Foster wrote:

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 03:13:26PM -, Curt wrote:


On 2024-05-28, Paul M Foster  wrote:

but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.



I don't see why that would be more reliable than just using the wifi
signal without any intermediary. It's only better wired when you're
directly connected to the source router, I should think.



I don't know that it would be more *reliable*, but I have a number of
devices which don't have wifi capability, like my desktop computer.


If you have to buy hardware to provide wired access, it might be more
expensive than a wifi card.  But, there may be reasons wifi is unusable --
antique or very small hardware, or even just personal preference.

--
 If you need someone to blame
 Throw a rock in the air
 You'll hit someone guilty -- U2, _Zooropa_, "Dirty Day"

Re: After upgrade, what do you do about "removed" and "obsolete" packages ?

[Marco Moock]

Am 28.05.2024 um 20:38:46 Uhr schrieb Thomas Schmitt:

> today i upgraded a Debian 11 system to 12 and am now scratching my
> head over the final steps as described in
>   
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#purge-removed-packages
>   
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#obsolete

Packages have dependencies. Those will be marked as automatically
installed. They can be removed if no other package depends on them.

You can do that with the autopurge/autoremove apt command.

Be aware: If you install software beyond apt/dpkg that depends on files
in installed packages, you need to mark them as manually installed to
avoid being removed by autoremove. dpkg doesn't care about stuff
manually installed.

> What does "[residual-config]" mean ?

Packages include system-wide configuration files. If packages are
removed, this configuration will not be deleted. You need to purge such
packages to remove it.


-- 
Gruß
Marco

Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1716921526mu...@cartoonies.org

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Lee]

On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 7:08 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
> > I'd like to shop for such a device, but I don't know what it's called.
>
> I think it's called a "wireless bridge".
>
> Any device with a wifi card and (at least) an ethernet port can do that.
> So "any" wifi router will do the trick, as long as you can get it to run
> a firmware that's not hopelessly restricted.
>
> I'd recommend you look at the routers supported by OpenWRT.

+1 for OpenWRT supported routers
supported devices are listed here
  https://openwrt.org/toh/start

If all you want is a wireless bridge you can probably get by with a
woefully underpowered router.  Put the wan and lan ports on vlan 1 so
there's no router or firewall involved and disable dns, dhcp, etc. so
it's just ethernet <=> wifi

I've got a pair of TP-Link Archer C7s that are now out of production
but cost about $55 when new that do a great job with everything on
vlan 1.

> Of course, if you can do it with cables (ethernet/powerline/younameit)
> it's probably going to work better, but I guess you know that already.

+1 again - cables are better.  Even with a house you're most probably
going to get some interference from the houses around you :(

Regards,
Lee

After upgrade, what do you do about "removed" and "obsolete" packages ?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

today i upgraded a Debian 11 system to 12 and am now scratching my head
over the final steps as described in
  
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#purge-removed-packages
  
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#obsolete

The command
  apt list '~c'
shows 9 "removed packages":
  fuse/stable 2.9.9-6+b1 amd64 [residual-config]
  libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer/now 1:7.0.4-4+deb11u9 amd64 
[residual-config]
  linux-image-4.19.0-17-amd64/now 4.19.194-3 amd64 [residual-config]
  linux-image-4.19.0-20-amd64/now 4.19.235-1 amd64 [residual-config]
  linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64/now 4.19.118-2+deb10u1 amd64 [residual-config]
  python-twisted-core/now 18.9.0-3 all [residual-config]
  python/now 2.7.16-1 amd64 [residual-config]
  wicd-daemon/now 1.7.4+tb2-6 all [residual-config]
  wicd-gtk/now 1.7.4+tb2-6 all [residual-config]
What does "[residual-config]" mean ?
The man page of apt is quite sparse. Is there something more detailed
available online ?

  apt list '~o'
shows 220 "obsolete packages", of which at least one is a commercial
non-Debian package which is on the machine for commercial reasons.
Others are gcc-{8,9,10}, hfsprogs, linux-image-* from Debian 10 and from
my own kernel experiments, and lots of stuff of which i have no clue.

I wonder how others sift through such a list and decide what to do.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Strange difference between bullseye and bookworm.

[Tim Woodall]

On Tue, 28 May 2024, Tim Woodall wrote:


I start a new user namespace as follows:
(The special bashrc is just because there are some things in my default
one that (expectedly) don't work in the lxc user namespace)




I then mount an overlayfs on top of that:
fuse-overlayfs -o lowerdir=lower,upperdir=overlay,workdir=work mount




And it appears that fuse-overlayfs is the problem. Downgrading to the
version from bullseye fixes:

root@bookworm19:~# apt-get install fuse-overlayfs=1.4.0-1
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
  fuse-overlayfs


The problem only seems to trigger when lower is a squashfs mount...

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[rtnetz...@windstream.net]

- Original Message -
From: "Paul M Foster" 

> I've never see a 3 phase in a house.

Quite some years ago my father inquired about getting
3 phase power to his house to power a rather husky lathe.
The answers were distributed between "impossible" 
and "prohibitively expensive".

-- 
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 28 May 2024 14:01:58 -0400
Paul M Foster  wrote:

Hello Paul,

>Nope. On a 3 phase system with individual phases at 120V, you will never

In the UK, each phase is nominally 240V, not 120V.  That's why David
mentioned 440V between phases.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
No you can't hop into my shower
Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk


pgpks7VNwJwB3.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 28 May 2024 18:11:48 +0100
debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Hello debian-u...@howorth.org.uk,

>I have a powerline adapter (Devolo units). There's no such restriction,
>as far as I know. My powerline transmitter and receiver are certainly
>on different circuits.

Fair enough.  Different from what I (thought) I remembered.  Renders
much of the rest of my reply moot, obviously.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Save me from myself
Prisoners - Judgement Centre


pgpvWtxLeU5pZ.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Paul M Foster]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 03:13:26PM -, Curt wrote:

> On 2024-05-28, Paul M Foster  wrote:
> > but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> > seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> > the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.
> >
> 
> I don't see why that would be more reliable than just using the wifi
> signal without any intermediary. It's only better wired when you're
> directly connected to the source router, I should think.
> 

I don't know that it would be more *reliable*, but I have a number of
devices which don't have wifi capability, like my desktop computer.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Paul M Foster]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 12:29:37PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

[snip]

> 
> I was under the impression that 3-phase to a private residence
> contravenes building regulations, as that would make 440V available
> for you to electrocute yourself.

Nope. On a 3 phase system with individual phases at 120V, you will never
get 480V. Depending on the way it's wired at the pole, you could get a
maximum of 208V or 240V, phase to phase.

[snip]
 
> I can't help thinking that you can "plant a device" on each computer
> that doesn't have wifi by buying dongles. That is, unless you have
> more than one computer in a room and they must be wire-interconnected.

If I have more than one internet connected device in room, I just put in a
switch, which is then wired to whatever the source of the internet is in
that room.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Michael Grant]

Max, your list looks very similiar to what I'm seeing.

I seem to have suceeded in removing all of the testing packages from
my backup instance, now, just need to flip the ips around and see if
the ship still floats.

The culprits that seemed to be causing the massive dependencies were
libsasl2-2 and libsasl2-modules-db.  Though not libsasl2-modules which
i also have installed.

Using apt to try and remove the first 2 were causing this:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  apache2 apache2-bin clamav clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam clamav-milter 
clamav-unofficial-sigs clamdscan colord curl dirmngr git gnupg gnupg2 
gpg-wks-client
  libapache2-mod-php8.2 libapache2-mod-ruid2 libaprutil1-ldap libclamav11 
libcurl3-gnutls libcurl4 libgphoto2-6 libldap-2.5-0 libmailutils9 
libmemcached11 libpq5 libsane1
  libsasl2-2 mailutils mongo-tools opendkim opendkim-tools python-apt 
python3-certbot-apache python3-debianbts python3-pycurl python3-pysimplesoap 
python3-reportbug reportbug
  sane-utils sendmail sendmail-bin sensible-mda

I sucked down those 3 packages and downgraded them via 'dpkg -i' and
was able to uninstall and reinstall sendmail by apt and now, no more
packages from testing.

Whew, I won't do that again.  But it's good to know how these things work!

Thanks all for your help.


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Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Paul M Foster]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 01:20:19PM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:

> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:11:48PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> > Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
> > connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
> > If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
> > designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
> > better over ALL the circuits.
> > 
> > If your house has 3-phase wiring, which is unusual in the UK, then you
> > may have a problem because powerline signals do need to be on the same
> > phase.
> 
> In the US, most houses are wired with 240V split-phase giving 120V to
> a mains outlet.  It's a 50/50 crapshot if you are on the same leg in a
> different part of the house.  I don't know if some electricians like
> to put all the mains outlets on the same leg or not.  I don't know if
> these ethernet over power things will work over different legs.  The
> legs share a neutral and ground, so maybe!  I'd be interested to know!

Typically on an electrical install, how many and which circuits go to where
is determined by the lead electrician at install time. This means there's
no telling which "phase" of a 240V system any given room or outlet will be
on.

> 
> Similarrly, over 3-phase, I would suspect the same is true, 3
> different legs around the property with a common neutral and common
> ground.  

I've never see a 3 phase in a house. Common in commercial/industrial,
though.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Strange difference between bullseye and bookworm.

[Tim Woodall]

I start a new user namespace as follows:
(The special bashrc is just because there are some things in my default
one that (expectedly) don't work in the lxc user namespace)

lxc-usernsexec -m b:0:689824:65536 -- /bin/bash --rcfile ~/.bashrc.lxc

Inside there I mount a squash fs image that includes the normal tools
for building packages

squashfuse bookworm.amd64.build-deb.sqfs lower

I then mount an overlayfs on top of that:
fuse-overlayfs -o lowerdir=lower,upperdir=overlay,workdir=work mount

I bind mount /dev/null into there
cd mount
touch dev/null
mount -o bind /dev/null dev/null

and then I chroot:
/sbin/chroot .

This all appears to be working perfectly on both bookworm and bullseye
hosts.

But in bookworm, apt-get update fails in a weird way:

root@dirac:/# apt-get update
Get:1 http://aptmirror.home.woodall.me.uk/local bookworm InRelease [18.9 kB]
Get:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm InRelease [151 kB]
Err:1 http://aptmirror.home.woodall.me.uk/local bookworm InRelease
  Couldn't execute /usr/bin/apt-key to check 
/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/aptmirror.home.woodall.me.uk_local_dists_bookworm_InRelease
Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease [48.0 
kB]
Err:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm InRelease
  Couldn't execute /usr/bin/apt-key to check 
/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_bookworm_InRelease
Err:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security InRelease
  Couldn't execute /usr/bin/apt-key to check 
/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/deb.debian.org_debian-security_dists_bookworm-security_InRelease

Notice that "Couldn't execute /usr/bin/apt-key"

Running exactly the same on a bullseye host and this "just works"

Running:
strace -f apt-get update |& less

[pid  6619] execve("/usr/bin/apt-key", ["/usr/bin/apt-key", "--quiet", "--readonly", "verify", "--status-fd", 
"3", "/tmp/apt.sig.xWh7oI", "/tmp/apt.data.JpfP2n"], 0x5566c9baafc0 /* 48 vars */) = -1 EOPNOTSUPP (Operation not supported)

This is my problem!

If I unpack the squashfs image but otherwise follow the same steps (i.e.
lower is a normal directory) then this works.

When I compare other things I see this in the working one:
[pid  6701] openat(AT_FDCWD, "/proc/self/fd", 
O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_CLOEXEC|O_DIRECTORY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)

while I see this in the non-working one:
[pid  6701] openat(AT_FDCWD, "/proc/self/fd", 
O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_CLOEXEC|O_DIRECTORY) = -1 EOPNOTSUPP (Operation not supported)

ENOENT is expected as I don't have /proc mounted in the namespace.

execve works for other tasks:
[pid  6693] execve("/usr/bin/dpkg", ["/usr/bin/dpkg", 
"--print-foreign-architectures"], 0x7ffe96e5ffa0 /* 42 vars */) = 0
works on both the bullseye and bookworm hosts, there's something special
about apt-key. Weirdly, copying dpkg over apt-key and I still get this
EOPNOTSUPP error. But deleting it completely and I get ENOENT from the
execve call.

Does anyone have any ideas what might be be wrong here, what I could try
to get this working again?

Tim.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[David Wright]

On Tue 28 May 2024 at 18:11:48 (+0100), debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> Brad Rogers  wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:31:29 +0100 "mick.crane" wrote:
> > 
> > >Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or
> > >did I misunderstand it.  
> > 
> > Yes, there is.  I believe you're thinking of powerline adaptors.  They
> > do require everything be on the same circuit, however.
> 
> I have a powerline adapter (Devolo units). There's no such restriction,
> as far as I know. My powerline transmitter and receiver are certainly
> on different circuits.
> 
> > The way electrical wiring is done in the UK often means separate
> > floors are on different circuits, and in larger properties, each
> > floor might be on two (or more) circuits, making it difficult, at
> > best, to get the whole building networked this way.  And that's
> > assuming ring circuits, if everything is on a radial, you're stymied.
> 
> Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
> connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
> If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
> designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
> better over ALL the circuits.
> 
> If your house has 3-phase wiring, which is unusual in the UK, then you
> may have a problem because powerline signals do need to be on the same
> phase.

I was under the impression that 3-phase to a private residence
contravenes building regulations, as that would make 440V available
for you to electrocute yourself.

This house is radially wired, and has two circuit boxes 100 feet apart
connected by a 100A cable. Powerline connectors work fine between any
points in either half of the house. I have two PL500s (two ports) and
two PL1200s (one port), all Netgear.

I've temporarily connected this computer to a PL500 in a GFIC socket
(kitchen kettle), and backed up my local mailboxes to a computer in
the attic in the other half of the house which is on a PL1200. I get
6MB/s transfer speeds.

Obviously they didn't work between the two halves when the old half's
circuit box was still powered from the easement at the back, and the
new half's 200A box powered from the front street.

On Tue 28 May 2024 at 07:39:39 (-0400), Paul M Foster wrote:
>
> We're moving across the state, and from what I've seen, providers there
> will do something similar-- provide a router and/or modem which has wired
> and wireless capabilities. However, because the house is not prewired for
> internet, we must solve the problem of getting internet to the computers
> and devices in the house. I'm not a fan of wifi, versus hard-wired
> internet. It's not as reliable, and it's slower. Thus, I want cat 5/6 to my
> devices. I could possibly wire the house with cat 5/6 through the attic,
> but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.

I can't help thinking that you can "plant a device" on each computer
that doesn't have wifi by buying dongles. That is, unless you have
more than one computer in a room and they must be wire-interconnected.

For good coverage upstairs, I'd get a cable from wherever to the attic
and put another router up there. You could feed the signal through the
soffits easily enough.

Cheers,
David.

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Max Nikulin]

On 29/05/2024 00:00, Michael Grant wrote:


4) dpkg -i libc6_whatever.deb libwhomever.deb 

5) Repeat until it works.

Apt is NOT built for downgrading.


Agree.


Ah I see, I did not realise that's what you meant by downgrading it,
thanks.


The thread is becoming excessively long. Have you posted output of "apt 
policy" to figure out what is your current configuration? You must have 
either additional config or pinning besides sources list for testing.


Out of curiosity I have tried to install sendmail and openssh-server 
from testing. I removed testing from sources list, dropped the following 
file


/etc/apt/preferences.d/80-downgrade.pref
Package: *
Pin: release n=bookworm
Pin-Priority: 1001

and after

 apt upgrade

only a couple of packages from testing survived:

libdb5.3t64/now 5.3.28+dfsg2-7 amd64 [installed,local]
libssl3t64/now 3.2.1-3 amd64 [installed,local]

I have no idea if all sendmail state and spool files have compatible 
format. So arbitrary failures may be expected.


Before downgrade it was:

libc-bin/testing,now 2.38-11 amd64 [installed]
libc-l10n/testing,now 2.38-11 all [installed,automatic]
libc6/testing,now 2.38-11 amd64 [installed]
libdb5.3t64/testing,now 5.3.28+dfsg2-7 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libsasl2-2/testing,now 2.1.28+dfsg1-6 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libsasl2-modules-db/testing,now 2.1.28+dfsg1-6 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libsasl2-modules/testing,now 2.1.28+dfsg1-6 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libssl3t64/testing,now 3.2.1-3 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libzstd1/testing,now 1.5.5+dfsg2-2 amd64 [installed]
locales/testing,now 2.38-11 all [installed]
openssh-client/testing,now 1:9.7p1-5 amd64 [installed]
openssh-server/testing,now 1:9.7p1-5 amd64 [installed]
openssh-sftp-server/testing,now 1:9.7p1-5 amd64 [installed,automatic]
openssl/testing,now 3.2.1-3 amd64 [installed,automatic]
sendmail-base/testing,now 8.18.1-3 all [installed,automatic]
sendmail-bin/testing,now 8.18.1-3 amd64 [installed,automatic]
sendmail-cf/testing,now 8.18.1-3 all [installed,automatic]
sendmail/testing,now 8.18.1-3 all [installed]
sensible-mda/testing,now 8.18.1-3 amd64 [installed,automatic]

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Michael Grant]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:11:48PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
> connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
> If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
> designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
> better over ALL the circuits.
> 
> If your house has 3-phase wiring, which is unusual in the UK, then you
> may have a problem because powerline signals do need to be on the same
> phase.

In the US, most houses are wired with 240V split-phase giving 120V to
a mains outlet.  It's a 50/50 crapshot if you are on the same leg in a
different part of the house.  I don't know if some electricians like
to put all the mains outlets on the same leg or not.  I don't know if
these ethernet over power things will work over different legs.  The
legs share a neutral and ground, so maybe!  I'd be interested to know!

Similarrly, over 3-phase, I would suspect the same is true, 3
different legs around the property with a common neutral and common
ground.  


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Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 01:00:24PM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> So once I've done this dpkg -i to install a package, I can do that
> without removing the old one first?

Yes, dpkg will upgrade or downgrade the existing package.

> And, once I've hammered a package into place with dpkg, in the future,
> will apt take it into account as a dependency of things already
> installed even though apt itself didn't install or rather downgrade
> the package itself?

Yes.  Dpkg is the lower level tool.  Apt is the higher level tool.
The set of installed packages is tracked by dpkg (it's in the file
/var/lib/dpkg/status which you can read if you like).  Apt calls dpkg
to do all of the installing, removing, etc.  Apt just calculates the
dependency tree and downloads the .deb files for dpkg to use.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[debian-user]

Brad Rogers  wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:31:29 +0100
> "mick.crane"  wrote:
> 
> Hello mick.crane,
> 
> >Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or
> >did I misunderstand it.  
> 
> Yes, there is.  I believe you're thinking of powerline adaptors.  They
> do require everything be on the same circuit, however.

I have a powerline adapter (Devolo units). There's no such restriction,
as far as I know. My powerline transmitter and receiver are certainly
on different circuits.

> The way electrical wiring is done in the UK often means separate
> floors are on different circuits, and in larger properties, each
> floor might be on two (or more) circuits, making it difficult, at
> best, to get the whole building networked this way.  And that's
> assuming ring circuits, if everything is on a radial, you're stymied.

Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
better over ALL the circuits.

If your house has 3-phase wiring, which is unusual in the UK, then you
may have a problem because powerline signals do need to be on the same
phase.

Re: Alpine 6.26 - can't stop it wanting to save the password.

[Tim Woodall]

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Curt wrote:


On 2024-05-26, Tim Woodall  wrote:


Anyone got any ideas how to disable this?




If you have ~/.alpine.passfile apparently it will keep asking, but maybe
you don't, in which case I'm stumped.


Thanks, no that file doesn't exist. I'm a bit stumped too - and another
problem has come up that has handicapped me investigating in the source
although I've now found a workaround.

Tim.

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Michael Grant]

> > # apt remove -s libc6
> 
> DO NOT do this.
> 
> Downgrade it.  DO NOT remove it and then hope to reinstall it later.
> Removing libc6 will break everything.
> 
> You seem to be flailing, so let me spell this out as explicitly as
> possible.  When I say "downgrade a library package", I mean:
> 
> 1) Download the .deb file for the bookworm(-security) version of the
>library package.
> 
> 2) Run "dpkg -i libc6_whatever.deb".
> 
> 3) When you inevitably get dependency conflicts, download the additional
>library packages that need to be downgraded at the same time, and add
>them to the list.
> 
> 4) dpkg -i libc6_whatever.deb libwhomever.deb 
> 
> 5) Repeat until it works.
> 
> 6) Helpful post-mess cleanup commands include "dpkg --configure -a" and
>"apt-get -f install".  (Yes, that last one has install with no package
>names.)
> 
> Apt is NOT built for downgrading.  If you happen to get any positive
> results from an apt command that involves downgrading, you can consider
> that a pleasant surprise.  Usually you need to invoke dpkg directly.

Ah I see, I did not realise that's what you meant by downgrading it,
thanks.

So once I've done this dpkg -i to install a package, I can do that
without removing the old one first?

And, once I've hammered a package into place with dpkg, in the future,
will apt take it into account as a dependency of things already
installed even though apt itself didn't install or rather downgrade
the package itself?  The fact that I am dpkg installing it over a
package that apt itself installed, perhaps this keeps apt happy?

Thanks for your help.  I use apt all the time to do upgrades but
rarely do I ever need to get into weeds with it.  It's a bit of a
black box to me.




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Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Dan Ritter]

Paul M Foster wrote: 
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 08:15:36AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
> > You're spending the money on a house, which is $LARGESUM. Spend
> > the comparatively small amount of extra money on some form of
> > wiring before you move in, so you don't end up frustrated for
> > two years before doing it anyway and also having to move
> > furniture, listen to concrete drilling, and so forth.
> 
> I wonder if I can get an electrical company to put in cat 5? Might be worth
> it. The prospect of getting up in the attic and running cat 5 myself just
> doesn't appeal to me.

Yes, absolutely. Anyone who does low-voltage work probably has
lots of experience doing this. Call or email local electrician
companies and tell them exactly what you want; they'll send
someone over to evaluate the work and give you an estimate.

-dsr-

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[eben]

On 5/28/24 11:13, Curt wrote:

On 2024-05-28, Paul M Foster  wrote:

but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.



I don't see why that would be more reliable than just using the wifi
signal without any intermediary. It's only better wired when you're
directly connected to the source router, I should think.


That situation might cover many of the machines in a house, I would think.
Certainly a room.

--
And the men who hold high places / Must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality / Closer to the heart

Rush, "Closer to the Heart", 1977

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Curt]

On 2024-05-28, Paul M Foster  wrote:
> but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.
>

I don't see why that would be more reliable than just using the wifi
signal without any intermediary. It's only better wired when you're
directly connected to the source router, I should think.

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 09:12:18AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> > You will most likely need to remove the testing versions of these packages
> > (apache2, git and so on) and then install the bookworm versions afterward.
> 
> Those dependent packages (most if not all) are not from testing.
> apache2, perl, they are all installed from bookworm or
> bookworm-security.

I am skeptical of this.

> That db5.3 from testing is uninstalled and reinstalling from stable is
> causing these other packages from stable to be uninstalled.  I find
> that confusing.

Let's say that you're right.  You actually *did* download and downgrade
these packages (and just didn't show us the details for some reason), but
the packaging system is unhappy about what you're telling it to do,
and it gets overly aggressive and wants to remove some things that you
feel could remain in place.

You could just *let it remove them*, and then reinstall them.  If you've
already downloaded and downgraded them to bookworm versions, then you
probably still have the .deb files, so it wouldn't even require another
download.

> But what about libc6?  That one really worries me.

As it should!

> # apt remove -s libc6

DO NOT do this.

Downgrade it.  DO NOT remove it and then hope to reinstall it later.
Removing libc6 will break everything.

You seem to be flailing, so let me spell this out as explicitly as
possible.  When I say "downgrade a library package", I mean:

1) Download the .deb file for the bookworm(-security) version of the
   library package.

2) Run "dpkg -i libc6_whatever.deb".

3) When you inevitably get dependency conflicts, download the additional
   library packages that need to be downgraded at the same time, and add
   them to the list.

4) dpkg -i libc6_whatever.deb libwhomever.deb 

5) Repeat until it works.

6) Helpful post-mess cleanup commands include "dpkg --configure -a" and
   "apt-get -f install".  (Yes, that last one has install with no package
   names.)

Apt is NOT built for downgrading.  If you happen to get any positive
results from an apt command that involves downgrading, you can consider
that a pleasant surprise.  Usually you need to invoke dpkg directly.

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Paul M Foster]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 08:15:36AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:

> Paul M Foster wrote: 
> > We're moving across the state, and from what I've seen, providers there
> > will do something similar-- provide a router and/or modem which has wired
> > and wireless capabilities. However, because the house is not prewired for
> > internet, we must solve the problem of getting internet to the computers
> > and devices in the house. I'm not a fan of wifi, versus hard-wired
> > internet. It's not as reliable, and it's slower. Thus, I want cat 5/6 to my
> > devices. I could possibly wire the house with cat 5/6 through the attic,
> > but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> > seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> > the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.
> 
> Concrete blocks wifi very effectively. Are any of your internal,
> load-bearing walls concrete?

Highly doubtful. The house is rectangular, so I'm guessing only the outside
walls are block (this is hurricane country). It wouldn't be cost effective
to use block on the interior of the house.

> 
> > To the contrary, I *do* plan to string cat 5/6 to those devices, just not
> > all the way to the modem/router, which will likely be in the garage.
> 
> The devices wired together in a single room will do well. They
> will have issues talking across rooms, as every round-trip will
> feature four wifi hops (room router to gateway, gateway to room
> router, and then back again).
> 
> You're spending the money on a house, which is $LARGESUM. Spend
> the comparatively small amount of extra money on some form of
> wiring before you move in, so you don't end up frustrated for
> two years before doing it anyway and also having to move
> furniture, listen to concrete drilling, and so forth.

I wonder if I can get an electrical company to put in cat 5? Might be worth
it. The prospect of getting up in the attic and running cat 5 myself just
doesn't appeal to me.

Paul

-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

Re: Debian bookwork / grub2 / LVM / RAID / dm-integrity fails to boot

[Franco Martelli]

Hi Marc,

On 20/05/24 at 14:35, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

3. grub BOOT FAILS IF ANY LV HAS dm-integrity, EVEN IF NOT LINKED TO /

if I reboot now, grub2 complains about rimage issues, clear the screen
and then I am at the grub2 prompt.

Booting is only possible with Debian rescue, disabling the dm-integrity
on the above volume and rebooting. Note that you still can see the
rimage/rmeta sub LVs (lvs -a), they are not deleted! (but no
dm-integrity is activated).

4. update-grub GIVES WARNINGS

Now, if I try to start update-grub while booted AND having enabled
dm-integrity on the vg1/docker volume, I get:

# update-grub
Generating grub configuration file ...
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-21-amd64
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-6.1.0-21-amd64
error: unknown node 'docker_rimage_0'.
[ ... many ... ]
/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: disk
`lvmid/xLE0OV-wQy7-88H9-yKCz-4DUQ-Toce-h9rQvk/FzCf1C-95eB-7B0f-DSrF-t1pg-66qp-hmP3nZ'
  not found.
error: unknown node 'docker_rimage_0'.
[ ... many ... ]

[ this repeats a few times ]


Sorry for the late in the answer, but I've just noticed that the Linux 
kernel of Debian Bookworm ISO image (debian-12.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso) 
comes *without* "dm-integrity.ko" module, making therefore not possible 
to support volumes formatted with "--raidintegrity y" neither those 
formatted with "integritysetup" command (I think that it's a bug and it 
should be reported).


When you booted in rescue mode which ISO image have you used?

Thank for your patience, kind regards.
--
Franco Martelli

Re: Touchpad not detected by kernel on ThinkPad X13 Gen5

[David]

On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 17:39, Sébastien Villemot  wrote:

> I recently bought a ThinkPad X13 Gen5 (benefiting from the discount
> generously offered by Lenovo to Debian Developers).
>
> The laptop runs Debian Bookworm, and I got almost all the hardware to
> work by using more recent kernel and firmware files (see Debian bug
> reports #1070647, #1070648, #1070650).
>
> However, I still can’t get the touchpad to work. It is apparently not
> recognized by the kernel, since the touchpad does not appear in
> /proc/bus/input/devices, and there is nothing in the kernel log. Note
> that the computer runs a custom build of Linux kernel 6.9.1.
>
> I opened a bug report against the kernel:
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218868
>
> I’m largely ignorant of everything related to input drivers, so ideally
> I would need help to further debug this and provide more useful
> information to the kernel developers.

Hi,

This discussion related to those bugs might interest you:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00247.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/05/msg00032.html

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Michael Grant]

> So, which part are you confused about?  Did you think there was some
> easy way to FIX a frankendebian?  Are you confused because you keep
> thinking "there must be some single apt command that will do all the
> work for me"?
> 
> There's not.  You get to do all the work by hand.

I am trying to do it by hand.  There's not many packages to deal
with at this point, doing this by hand looks like 10 or so packages.

> You will most likely need to remove the testing versions of these packages
> (apache2, git and so on) and then install the bookworm versions afterward.

Those dependent packages (most if not all) are not from testing.
apache2, perl, they are all installed from bookworm or
bookworm-security.

That db5.3 from testing is uninstalled and reinstalling from stable is
causing these other packages from stable to be uninstalled.  I find
that confusing.

But what about libc6?  That one really worries me.

# apt remove -s libc6
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
a few pages of dependicies...

> The things to watch out for are config files (hence your backup), and
> any crazy dependency situations.  In the ideal case, you'll simply be
> able to remove all the packages that aren't libs, then downgrade the
> libs, then reinstall the packages.  And make sure you have sensible
> config files.  If you get stuck, there's always the big hammer
> (dpkg --force-depends and so on).
> 
> If/when it breaks, you get to reinstall from scratch.

I have a running second week old version of the same vm.  I'm rapidly
moving to abandon this and just swapping the instances around.

> This is why we tell people DO NOT MIX BINARY PACKAGES FROM MULTIPLE
> RELEASES.

Yup.  But this whole experience does make me wonder if there are
situations where it is safe.  For instance, if the thing you're
installing from a different release does not cause an update anything
from the current release to a new release.  It feels like apt might be
able to suss that out and if so, pop an "Are you sure??? (y/N)" in the
terminal.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[fxkl47BF]

On Tue, 28 May 2024, Michael Grant wrote:

> On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 12:59:34PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>> So what did it say after that?
>
> Sorry, here's the entire output of one of the tries:
>
> [bottom /etc/mail #1168] apt install libdb5.3/bookworm db5.3-util/bookworm 
> db-util/bookworm
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree... Done
> Reading state information... Done
> Selected version '5.3.28+dfsg2-1' (Debian:12.5/stable [amd64]) for 'libdb5.3'
> Selected version '5.3.28+dfsg2-1' (Debian:12.5/stable [amd64]) for 
> 'db5.3-util'
> Selected version '5.3.2' (Debian:12.5/stable [all]) for 'db-util'
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
> required:
>  acl apache2-data apache2-utils augeas-lenses avahi-daemon clamav-base 
> colord-data git-man gnupg-l10n gnupg-utils gpg-wks-server guile-3.0-libs 
> ipp-usb libapr1 libaprutil1
>  libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 libaugeas0 libavahi-core7 libcolorhug2 libdaemon0 
> libexif12 libgphoto2-l10n libgphoto2-port12 libgudev-1.0-0 libgusb2 
> libhashkit2 libieee1284-3 libldap-common
>  liblua5.3-0 libnspr4 libnss-mdns libnss3 libopendbx1 libopendbx1-sqlite3 
> libopendkim11 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler126 libpython2-stdlib libpython3.11 
> librbl1 librtmp1 libsane-common
>  libsnmp-base libsnmp40 libssh2-1 libvbr2 mailutils-common python2 
> python2-minimal python3-augeas sane-airscan update-inetd usb.ids
> Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
> The following additional packages will be installed:
>  php8.2-fpm
> Suggested packages:
>  php-pear
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>  apache2 apache2-bin clamav clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam clamav-milter 
> clamav-unofficial-sigs clamdscan colord curl dirmngr git gnupg gnupg2 
> gpg-wks-client libapache2-mod-php8.2
>  libapache2-mod-ruid2 libaprutil1-ldap libclamav11 libcurl3-gnutls libcurl4 
> libdb5.3t64 libgphoto2-6 libldap-2.5-0 libmailutils9 libmemcached11 libpq5 
> libsane1 libsasl2-2
>  libsasl2-modules-db mailutils mongo-tools opendkim opendkim-tools python-apt 
> python3-certbot-apache python3-debianbts python3-pycurl python3-pysimplesoap 
> python3-reportbug reportbug
>  sane-utils sasl2-bin sendmail sendmail-bin sensible-mda
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>  libdb5.3 php8.2-fpm
> The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
>  db-util db5.3-util
> 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 2 downgraded, 46 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 1,743 kB/2,507 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 234 MB disk space will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
> Abort.
>
>>> Is there some way to get apt to reinstall a package such that it does
>>> not think it has to uninstall things which depend on it because it's
>>> being immediatly reinstalled?
>>
>> That is the idea behind reinstall, though downgrading is always
>> a test of its ability to succeed.
>
> What it says it's going to do is actually remove those 46 packages and
> not reinstall them.  I believe it!  Clearly apt is unwinding the
> dependencies.  It seems like it's not taking into account the
> downgraded libdb5.3 is a valid dependency for all the things it's
> about to uninstall so it doesn't need to uninstall those things.  I
> thought it should do that, but for some reason, it's not doing that
> for me.
>
>

i ran into exactly this same situation
apt and apt-get wanted to remove a passel of packages
i tried aptitude and it removed only the package i wanted
the system still works fine
just my experience

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Dan Ritter]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote: 
> On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 02:02:47PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> ISTR that "apt-get install =" will unconditionally
> install  of , if necessary pulling in dependencies.
> 
> But I've never tried it :-)

That pulls in dependencies but does not install packages that
would otherwise be forbidden by the priority system.

E.g.: if you have foobar 1.5 in stable and foobar 2.1 in
backports, and they each depend on libfoobar of the same version
number, then

apt-get install foobar=2.1

will fail saying that it requires libfoobar 2.1 but version 1.5
is to be installed.

You can then solve that by saying

apt-get install foobar=2.1 libfoobar=2.1

but many interesting packages will have a web of dependencies,
and sometimes following them will get you to a place it is hard
to escape.

The backports repository is generally safe (or safe-ish) because
the packages in it are meant to work in a mostly-stable system.

Other repos are less accomodating.

-dsr-

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Dan Ritter]

Paul M Foster wrote: 
> We're moving across the state, and from what I've seen, providers there
> will do something similar-- provide a router and/or modem which has wired
> and wireless capabilities. However, because the house is not prewired for
> internet, we must solve the problem of getting internet to the computers
> and devices in the house. I'm not a fan of wifi, versus hard-wired
> internet. It's not as reliable, and it's slower. Thus, I want cat 5/6 to my
> devices. I could possibly wire the house with cat 5/6 through the attic,
> but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.

Concrete blocks wifi very effectively. Are any of your internal,
load-bearing walls concrete?

> To the contrary, I *do* plan to string cat 5/6 to those devices, just not
> all the way to the modem/router, which will likely be in the garage.

The devices wired together in a single room will do well. They
will have issues talking across rooms, as every round-trip will
feature four wifi hops (room router to gateway, gateway to room
router, and then back again).

You're spending the money on a house, which is $LARGESUM. Spend
the comparatively small amount of extra money on some form of
wiring before you move in, so you don't end up frustrated for
two years before doing it anyway and also having to move
furniture, listen to concrete drilling, and so forth.

-dsr-

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Richmond]

Andy Smith  writes:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 11:31:29AM +0100, mick.crane wrote:
>> Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or did I
>> misunderstand it.
>
> It works extremely poorly, if at all. If wifi works you would prefer
> wifi.
>

Do you mean homeplugs? I found they worked well. I can't see the post
you are replying to.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:31:29 +0100
"mick.crane"  wrote:

Hello mick.crane,

>Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or
>did I misunderstand it.

Yes, there is.  I believe you're thinking of powerline adaptors.  They
do require everything be on the same circuit, however.

The way electrical wiring is done in the UK often means separate floors
are on different circuits, and in larger properties, each floor might
be on two (or more) circuits, making it difficult, at best, to get the
whole building networked this way.  And that's assuming ring circuits,
if everything is on a radial, you're stymied.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You can't go in if you don't look right
Outlaw - Chron Gen


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:35:25 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

Hello Andy,

>people. I don't know that it would add enough value to cover the
>cost of doing it, though.

Almost certainly not;  Social housing where I live is non-existent
because, according to the builders, the land costs more than they would
be able to sell the housing for.


However, this  somewhat Off Topic, so I'll leave it there.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
It's your life so go your own way
Questions And Answers - Sham 69


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 07:09:16AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:59:50AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:10:11AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> > > The following packages will be REMOVED:
> > >   [...] libdb5.3t64 [...]
> > 
> > You've *clearly* still got testing packages installed.
> 
> YES.  As I originally said, I created this mess by installing sendmail
> from testing.  And then, a month or so later, I did an
> apt-get upgrade (to do updates, not a full upgrade) which pulled in
> some more things from testing.  I'm trying to get back to all being
> from stable.

So, which part are you confused about?  Did you think there was some
easy way to FIX a frankendebian?  Are you confused because you keep
thinking "there must be some single apt command that will do all the
work for me"?

There's not.  You get to do all the work by hand.

You will most likely need to remove the testing versions of these packages
(apache2, git and so on) and then install the bookworm versions afterward.

The things to watch out for are config files (hence your backup), and
any crazy dependency situations.  In the ideal case, you'll simply be
able to remove all the packages that aren't libs, then downgrade the
libs, then reinstall the packages.  And make sure you have sensible
config files.  If you get stuck, there's always the big hammer
(dpkg --force-depends and so on).

If/when it breaks, you get to reinstall from scratch.

This is why we tell people DO NOT MIX BINARY PACKAGES FROM MULTIPLE
RELEASES.

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Paul M Foster]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 04:43:38AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:

> When you say your provider wants to provide you a "wireless router",
> are you implying that you do not have any physically wired
> high-speed internet to this property.  As in, the old copper either isn't
> good enough for decent internet and no fibre yet, no cable modem either?

We've lived in this house for 20 years, and in that time, every internet
provider we've had has provided us with a router and/or modem which has
RJ45 jacks and a wifi signal. In this location, we've either had cable,
fiber or satellite internet. From the router/modem, we have wired
connections to the areas we have computers and cable boxes. Our phones use
the wifi aspect of the modem/router.

We're moving across the state, and from what I've seen, providers there
will do something similar-- provide a router and/or modem which has wired
and wireless capabilities. However, because the house is not prewired for
internet, we must solve the problem of getting internet to the computers
and devices in the house. I'm not a fan of wifi, versus hard-wired
internet. It's not as reliable, and it's slower. Thus, I want cat 5/6 to my
devices. I could possibly wire the house with cat 5/6 through the attic,
but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.

> 
> I read your original post thinking you might be thinking of
> "extending" the reach of the "wifi" (which is probably isn't, it's
> probably 4G or 5G in this case) to your rooms.  That's not what you
> do, you don't extend that signal.
> 
> Some providers can provide now a box which has a SIM card in it and
> talks to the provider over 4G/5G cellular.  On the inside of the
> house, they provide a wifi access, just like most other providers.
> Also, most of these routers have an ethernet port on the back so you
> can, if you like, plug in an ethernet switch or another wifi router
> (netgear or TPlink or whatever).
> 
> To be clear, the wifi is the part that is at your property.  There are
> some providers termed WISPs (wireless internet service providers) that
> use wifi (not 4G/5G) to connect you to the internet.  Just being clear
> here that even if they do this, we're not talking about extending that
> wifi signal.  That signal (whether it's really wifi or 4G or 5G or
> even adsl or fibre or cable), it gets terminated at or just before
> your router in your house.  So I'm not talking about that side of your
> connection at all.

I've heard of 5G internet providers, but I'd rather avoid them. There's
only one of those in the area we're moving to.

> 
> So if I understand properly, you have some devices around your home
> that don't have built-in wifi and you are not going to string ethernet
> to them.  

To the contrary, I *do* plan to string cat 5/6 to those devices, just not
all the way to the modem/router, which will likely be in the garage.

> In this case, what I would do would be to consider some
> ethernet-over-powerline (e.g. https://www.tp-link.com/us/powerline/).
> In this case, you'd plug the ethernet on the provided router, and then
> you would put one (or more) of these devices around the house in the
> other rooms and they basically function as an ethernet switch.
> 
> Another solution is a wifi device that functions in "client mode" and
> gives you an ethernet port.  Essentially a device that functions as a
> wifi router in reverse in that the wifi part (WAN) connects to your in
> home wifi network and you plug devices into it on the ethernet ports
> (LAN ports).  Some wifi routers can be configured this way, especially
> older ones.  I have used the older ubiquiti eqiupment like this a lot.
> The newer ubiquiti stuff though looks to be more geared towards
> offices and hotels, probably way overkill for what you need.  However,
> I did find a TP-link product, the "TP-Link AC750 Dual Band Wi-Fi
> Travel Router" which seems to do this out of the box along with many
> other tricks.  There are many other products out there.  Many of these
> devices can also act as wifi repeaters or extenders too.
> 
> There are some other technical considerations like whether you care if
> NAT is running on this little box or not, but for something like a
> television in another room, you probably don't have to care.  NAT
> isn't a consideration with the ethernet over power, they thankfully
> don't do that.
> 
> Me personally, like others on this list, I'd try to find a way to get
> an ethernet cable to the other rooms, but in some cases, this just
> isn't practical.  I have an ethernet cable up the wall outside my
> house and over the top of the roof, not in a conduit!  Been like that
> for more than a decade.  But it rarely freezes here.  Your
> mileage/kilometerage may vary!
> 
> Michael Grant
> 



-- 
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://qu

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 11:31:29AM +0100, mick.crane wrote:
> Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or did I
> misunderstand it.

It works extremely poorly, if at all. If wifi works you would prefer
wifi.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 09:57:18AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:19:10 -0500
> David Wright  wrote:
> >We didn't meet any lack of understanding. Rather, the problem is which
> >rooms do you connect, and precisely where do you place the wallplates.
> 
> That's what I meant, really.   Christ, they can't even place power
> outlets sensibly in many instances.   :-(

I think if they put one wallplate next to each power outlet plate
and brought it all back to where the electricity meter is, as a
matter of course, then that would be quite useful to a lot of
people. I don't know that it would add enough value to cover the
cost of doing it, though.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Michael Grant]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:59:50AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:10:11AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
> >   [...] libdb5.3t64 [...]
> 
> You've *clearly* still got testing packages installed.

YES.  As I originally said, I created this mess by installing sendmail
from testing.  And then, a month or so later, I did an
apt-get upgrade (to do updates, not a full upgrade) which pulled in
some more things from testing.  I'm trying to get back to all being
from stable.

Unless this is somehow easily fixable, I am leaning towards reverting
to my backup before the apt-get upgrade which has just sendmail from
testing.  I can more easily remove that and reinstall that before
doing the update.

The more I futz with this live machine, the deeper I seem to dig
myself into a hole.


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Re: migrating grub from BIOS to UEFI loses /etc/default/grub

[Florent Rougon]

Le 28/05/2024, Harald Dunkel  a écrit:

> Full thread is on debian-boot mailing list.

I've read it now, thanks for the info, Harald!

Regards

-- 
Florent

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 06:10:11AM -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   [...] libdb5.3t64 [...]

You've *clearly* still got testing packages installed.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[mick.crane]

On 2024-05-28 09:57, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:19:10 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

Hello David,


We didn't meet any lack of understanding. Rather, the problem is which
rooms do you connect, and precisely where do you place the wallplates.


That's what I meant, really.   Christ, they can't even place power
outlets sensibly in many instances.   :-(


Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or did 
I misunderstand it.

mick

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

[Michael Grant]

On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 12:59:34PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> So what did it say after that?

Sorry, here's the entire output of one of the tries:

[bottom /etc/mail #1168] apt install libdb5.3/bookworm db5.3-util/bookworm 
db-util/bookworm
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Selected version '5.3.28+dfsg2-1' (Debian:12.5/stable [amd64]) for 'libdb5.3'
Selected version '5.3.28+dfsg2-1' (Debian:12.5/stable [amd64]) for 'db5.3-util'
Selected version '5.3.2' (Debian:12.5/stable [all]) for 'db-util'
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  acl apache2-data apache2-utils augeas-lenses avahi-daemon clamav-base 
colord-data git-man gnupg-l10n gnupg-utils gpg-wks-server guile-3.0-libs 
ipp-usb libapr1 libaprutil1
  libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 libaugeas0 libavahi-core7 libcolorhug2 libdaemon0 
libexif12 libgphoto2-l10n libgphoto2-port12 libgudev-1.0-0 libgusb2 libhashkit2 
libieee1284-3 libldap-common
  liblua5.3-0 libnspr4 libnss-mdns libnss3 libopendbx1 libopendbx1-sqlite3 
libopendkim11 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler126 libpython2-stdlib libpython3.11 
librbl1 librtmp1 libsane-common
  libsnmp-base libsnmp40 libssh2-1 libvbr2 mailutils-common python2 
python2-minimal python3-augeas sane-airscan update-inetd usb.ids
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
  php8.2-fpm
Suggested packages:
  php-pear
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  apache2 apache2-bin clamav clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam clamav-milter 
clamav-unofficial-sigs clamdscan colord curl dirmngr git gnupg gnupg2 
gpg-wks-client libapache2-mod-php8.2
  libapache2-mod-ruid2 libaprutil1-ldap libclamav11 libcurl3-gnutls libcurl4 
libdb5.3t64 libgphoto2-6 libldap-2.5-0 libmailutils9 libmemcached11 libpq5 
libsane1 libsasl2-2
  libsasl2-modules-db mailutils mongo-tools opendkim opendkim-tools python-apt 
python3-certbot-apache python3-debianbts python3-pycurl python3-pysimplesoap 
python3-reportbug reportbug
  sane-utils sasl2-bin sendmail sendmail-bin sensible-mda
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libdb5.3 php8.2-fpm
The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
  db-util db5.3-util
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 2 downgraded, 46 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,743 kB/2,507 kB of archives.
After this operation, 234 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.

> > Is there some way to get apt to reinstall a package such that it does
> > not think it has to uninstall things which depend on it because it's
> > being immediatly reinstalled?
> 
> That is the idea behind reinstall, though downgrading is always
> a test of its ability to succeed.

What it says it's going to do is actually remove those 46 packages and
not reinstall them.  I believe it!  Clearly apt is unwinding the
dependencies.  It seems like it's not taking into account the
downgraded libdb5.3 is a valid dependency for all the things it's
about to uninstall so it doesn't need to uninstall those things.  I
thought it should do that, but for some reason, it's not doing that
for me.



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Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 27 May 2024 18:19:10 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

Hello David,

>We didn't meet any lack of understanding. Rather, the problem is which
>rooms do you connect, and precisely where do you place the wallplates.

That's what I meant, really.   Christ, they can't even place power
outlets sensibly in many instances.   :-(

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Looking for something I can call my own
Chairman Of The Bored - Crass


pgpqkvbwFZb8h.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: "Repeaters", etc. - FRITZ!Box 7490

[Michael Grant]

When you say your provider wants to provide you a "wireless router",
are you implying that you do not have any physically wired
high-speed internet to this property.  As in, the old copper either isn't
good enough for decent internet and no fibre yet, no cable modem either?

I read your original post thinking you might be thinking of
"extending" the reach of the "wifi" (which is probably isn't, it's
probably 4G or 5G in this case) to your rooms.  That's not what you
do, you don't extend that signal.

Some providers can provide now a box which has a SIM card in it and
talks to the provider over 4G/5G cellular.  On the inside of the
house, they provide a wifi access, just like most other providers.
Also, most of these routers have an ethernet port on the back so you
can, if you like, plug in an ethernet switch or another wifi router
(netgear or TPlink or whatever).

To be clear, the wifi is the part that is at your property.  There are
some providers termed WISPs (wireless internet service providers) that
use wifi (not 4G/5G) to connect you to the internet.  Just being clear
here that even if they do this, we're not talking about extending that
wifi signal.  That signal (whether it's really wifi or 4G or 5G or
even adsl or fibre or cable), it gets terminated at or just before
your router in your house.  So I'm not talking about that side of your
connection at all.

So if I understand properly, you have some devices around your home
that don't have built-in wifi and you are not going to string ethernet
to them.  In this case, what I would do would be to consider some
ethernet-over-powerline (e.g. https://www.tp-link.com/us/powerline/).
In this case, you'd plug the ethernet on the provided router, and then
you would put one (or more) of these devices around the house in the
other rooms and they basically function as an ethernet switch.

Another solution is a wifi device that functions in "client mode" and
gives you an ethernet port.  Essentially a device that functions as a
wifi router in reverse in that the wifi part (WAN) connects to your in
home wifi network and you plug devices into it on the ethernet ports
(LAN ports).  Some wifi routers can be configured this way, especially
older ones.  I have used the older ubiquiti eqiupment like this a lot.
The newer ubiquiti stuff though looks to be more geared towards
offices and hotels, probably way overkill for what you need.  However,
I did find a TP-link product, the "TP-Link AC750 Dual Band Wi-Fi
Travel Router" which seems to do this out of the box along with many
other tricks.  There are many other products out there.  Many of these
devices can also act as wifi repeaters or extenders too.

There are some other technical considerations like whether you care if
NAT is running on this little box or not, but for something like a
television in another room, you probably don't have to care.  NAT
isn't a consideration with the ethernet over power, they thankfully
don't do that.

Me personally, like others on this list, I'd try to find a way to get
an ethernet cable to the other rooms, but in some cases, this just
isn't practical.  I have an ethernet cable up the wall outside my
house and over the top of the roof, not in a conduit!  Been like that
for more than a decade.  But it rarely freezes here.  Your
mileage/kilometerage may vary!

Michael Grant



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Re: "Repeaters", etc.

[Roger Price]

On Mon, 27 May 2024, Paul M Foster wrote:


... and has an RJ45 jack in it in each room. So each room would
have one of these, and the devices in it would be hooked to that device via
cat 5e.


I wired my place Cat5. A lot of work, and I regretted it.  I live in the hills 
behind Nice, an area with a lot of lightning.  The overhead line to my place 
took a hit and thanks to the Cat5 conductivity I lost equipment.  Now I have a 
Freebox 4k mini which has feeble WiFi so I run it as a bridge to a TP-link WiFi 
router, and I have a Yagi Wifi antenna for distant access.


The Yagi antenna attached to a TP-link TL-WN722N USB adapter will capture a 
domestic WiFi router at well over 200 meters.


Roger

Re: migrating grub from BIOS to UEFI loses /etc/default/grub

[Harald Dunkel]

Full thread is on debian-boot mailing list.