Re: Mail clients
Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz writes: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 05:58:59PM +0200, lee wrote: Mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders in mind. It merely acknowledges the concept because the mails need to be stored /somewhere/. You mean it doesn't work out of the box and requires some configuration? No, I mean that mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders in mind. Hey, JFYI most good software is like that. Oh really? I never noticed and I'm so surprised you wouldn't believe it ... It is designed with the concept of directories, which is the Unix/Linux equivalent of the Win/Mac concept of folders. Have you looked at the documentation of mutt? It talks about mail folders. It also talks about directories. It cannot rename folders or directories and it cannot (re-)move them (the argument is that mutt isn't a file manager), and it doesn't really show you a list of the folders or directories you have stored your mail in. You can configure it to kinda do that, and when the folders/directories change (like when you create a new one or rename or (re-)move one), you either need to update the configuration or use some external software to dynamically generate a list to use in the configuration. I call that awkward. Again: mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders (or directories) in mind. Have you *actually* looked at the configuration options available with mutt? Sure, I looked at them many times. I have used mutt for over 15 years and then switched to gnus. There isn't much I could elaborate. I was told mutt can be configured So you never bothered looking yourself. Not for imap, like I said. Oh, now you are saying you have never really used it with imap. I never said I did. I know it does imap because I occasionally used it with imap and it was very awkward. I was told it can be configured to make using it with imap less awkward. I never tried to do that, so there isn't much I could elaborate about that. I already said that. Well, I have, and it works a treat thankyou very much. I haven't said it doesn't work. Please don't spread FUD. Please learn to read. -- Debian testing iad96 brokenarch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87objubp43@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Mail clients
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:10:09AM +0200, Erwan David wrote: On 21/10/12 10:51, Andrei POPESCU wrote: Could you please elaborate on that? As far as I can tell it's just a matter of configuring mutt correctly (the defaults are not really optimal). Mutt + Gmail, now that is a challenge! Not really, the challenge is mutt + heavy html emails... That depends on what you expect, I suppose. I find setting Autoview to use w3m -dump (which I believe is the default on Wheezy) does a great job. But, then I also find an inverse correlation between the amount of html formatting an email has, and my desire to read it. -- John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121022140746.ga3...@infotech.vrg.org
Re: Mail clients
On Lu, 22 oct 12, 15:41:48, lee wrote: Have you looked at the documentation of mutt? It talks about mail folders. It also talks about directories. It cannot rename folders or directories and it cannot (re-)move them (the argument is that mutt isn't a file manager), and it doesn't really show you a list of the folders or directories you have stored your mail in. You can configure it to kinda do that, and when the folders/directories change (like when you create a new one or rename or (re-)move one), you either need to update the configuration or use some external software to dynamically generate a list to use in the configuration. I call that awkward. Again: mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders (or directories) in mind. Here's the snippet I use: # Use everything that looks like a mailbox in ~/Maildir/ # except the ones explicitely excluded mailboxes ! + `\ for file in ~/Maildir/.*; do \ box=$(basename $file); \ if [ ! $box = '.' -a ! $box = '..' \ -a ! $box = '.debian' \ -a ! $box = '.notmuch' \ echo -n \+$box\ ; \ fi; \ done` This is not needed for IMAP. It also understands the concept of subscribed folder: # only show subscribed folders set imap_list_subscribed # check all subscribed folders for new mail set imap_check_subscribed Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Mail clients
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes: Here's the snippet I use: # Use everything that looks like a mailbox in ~/Maildir/ # except the ones explicitely excluded mailboxes ! + `\ for file in ~/Maildir/.*; do \ box=$(basename $file); \ if [ ! $box = '.' -a ! $box = '..' \ -a ! $box = '.debian' \ -a ! $box = '.notmuch' \ echo -n \+$box\ ; \ fi; \ done` Yeah I wrote a program to do something like that. At least it helped. I'd have made a Debian package for it if it wasn't so insanely difficult to make a package, so I put it on sourceforge or freshmeat and last time I checked, it had disappeared without notice. Oh, google still finds it: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mutt-mb/ Hm, their download counter is funny ... -- Debian testing iad96 brokenarch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ehkqnlm4@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Mail clients [was: Re: Wally Lepore]
On 21/10/12 10:51, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Sb, 20 oct 12, 06:54:21, lee wrote: Wally wants to learn some C programming, thus I suggested he learn emacs and might use gnus and try out vim and/or joe, whatever he likes best. Perhaps I should have mentioned mutt as well, but mutt with imap can be rather awkward. Could you please elaborate on that? As far as I can tell it's just a matter of configuring mutt correctly (the defaults are not really optimal). Mutt + Gmail, now that is a challenge! Not really, the challenge is mutt + heavy html emails... GMail is easy once you activate imap and use mutt as an imap reader (in that case it's better to use the header caching). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5083bbf1.8020...@rail.eu.org
Re: Mail clients [was: Re: Wally Lepore]
On Du, 21 oct 12, 11:10:09, Erwan David wrote: On 21/10/12 10:51, Andrei POPESCU wrote: Mutt + Gmail, now that is a challenge! Not really, the challenge is mutt + heavy html emails... GMail is easy once you activate imap and use mutt as an imap reader (in that case it's better to use the header caching). Of course I'm using Gmail via IMAP ;) but it needs special handling: $ grep 'imap.gmail.com.*macro' .mutt/hooks_muttrc | wc 6 44 722 Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Mail clients [was: Re: Wally Lepore]
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes: On Sb, 20 oct 12, 06:54:21, lee wrote: Wally wants to learn some C programming, thus I suggested he learn emacs and might use gnus and try out vim and/or joe, whatever he likes best. Perhaps I should have mentioned mutt as well, but mutt with imap can be rather awkward. Could you please elaborate on that? As far as I can tell it's just a matter of configuring mutt correctly (the defaults are not really optimal). Mutt + Gmail, now that is a challenge! Mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders in mind. It merely acknowledges the concept because the mails need to be stored /somewhere/. There isn't much I could elaborate. I was told mutt can be configured to make it less awkward to use with imap and I never bothered to figure out how to do that because I never really used it with imap because mutt is so awkward to use with imap :) I'm not really using imap anyway, and if I need it for some reason, I use seamonkey. Now if I seriously wanted to use imap, I'd set up gnus for it. And I'm not using gmail, either. -- Debian testing iad96 brokenarch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/874nlnddfg@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Mail clients
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 05:58:59PM +0200, lee wrote: Mutt isn't designed with the concept of folders in mind. It merely acknowledges the concept because the mails need to be stored /somewhere/. You mean it doesn't work out of the box and requires some configuration? Hey, JFYI most good software is like that. It is designed with the concept of directories, which is the Unix/Linux equivalent of the Win/Mac concept of folders. Have you *actually* looked at the configuration options available with mutt? There isn't much I could elaborate. I was told mutt can be configured So you never bothered looking yourself. to make it less awkward to use with imap and I never bothered to figure Of course it has to be configured, just like any other software! out how to do that because I never really used it with imap because mutt is so awkward to use with imap :) Oh, now you are saying you have never really used it with imap. Well, I have, and it works a treat thankyou very much. Please don't spread FUD. If you don't know don't guess. Or at least state that it is a personal problem that it didn't work for you and that it is not a generally held belief. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121022032841.GA19577@tal
Re: Mail clients attaching files (was Re: [SOLVED] How to reduce a debian system to a base system)
On Tuesday 23 March 2010 03:29:05 Ron Johnson wrote: Next time you attach such a file, I suggest that you add a .txt so that your email/webmail app knows that it is a text file, instead of base64 encoded application/octet-stream. (Iceweasel/Thunderbird seems to peek into it, probably using some built-in libmagic and knows to set the attachment to be inline text/plain. Don't know what Mutt, Sylpheed, KMail and Evolution do.) KMail opens it as text. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201003231706.29378.lisi.re...@gmail.com
RE: Mail clients attaching files (was Re: [SOLVED] How to reduce a debian system to a base system)
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:29:05 -0500 ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
On 2010-03-22 21:56, Mike Viau wrote:
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:29:01 -0400 ml...@post.harvard.edu wrote:
On 23:37 Fri 19 Mar , Mike Viau wrote:
My output with the suggestion above.
debian:~# dpkg --dry-run --purge $(join -v2 (awk '{if
($2==install)
print $1}' debian-5.04-base-selections | sort) (dpkg
--get-selections |
awk '{if ($2==install) print $1}' | sort)) bash: command
substitution:
I like your idea.
Credit goes out to Mike Bird /mgb/-/debian/@/yosemite/./net/
+1
Would you post the file debian-5.04-base-selections or give us a
reference?
Attached for you convenience!
sourced from: Debian Lenny
Next time you attach such a file, I suggest that you add a .txt so
that your email/webmail app knows that it is a text file, instead of
base64 encoded application/octet-stream.
(Iceweasel/Thunderbird seems to peek into it, probably using some
built-in libmagic and knows to set the attachment to be inline
text/plain. Don't know what Mutt, Sylpheed, KMail and Evolution do.)
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak
or the timid. Dwight Eisenhower
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Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of that...
-M
_
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957
Re: Mail clients attaching files (was Re: [SOLVED] How to reduce a debian system to a base system)
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:29:05PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-03-22 21:56, Mike Viau wrote: Attached for you convenience! sourced from: Debian Lenny Next time you attach such a file, I suggest that you add a .txt so that your email/webmail app knows that it is a text file, instead of base64 encoded application/octet-stream. (Iceweasel/Thunderbird seems to peek into it, probably using some built-in libmagic and knows to set the attachment to be inline text/plain. Don't know what Mutt, Sylpheed, KMail and Evolution do.) Mutt sees that there is no mailcap entry for it, and so views it as text. That's fine in this case, but for other files certain manual intervention would be required. Cheers, Tom -- ignorance, n.: When you don't know anything, and someone else finds out. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:25:31AM -0500, Chris Hilts wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 08:37:06PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: (and to know that they're in maildir format), then run all your old messages back through procmail again. I believe procmail comes with a utility called 'formail' which you might find useful for this. It was actually pretty straightforward. It each MH folder I did : for files in ./[[:digit:]]*; do cat $files |procmail; done No problem, until I got the SMS folder.. Thanks for the help.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 08:37:06PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: begin Alan James quotation: I'd like to give maildir a go, so how do I convert MH to MailDir ? If you use procmail, just set up new empty maildir folders corresponding to each of your old MH folders, edit .procmailrc to use the new folders (and to know that they're in maildir format), then run all your old messages back through procmail again. I just went through this last week, and had a *lot* of hand-sorted folders. Here's the script I used. It uses a program called safecat, google's your buddy for that: #!/bin/sh SAFECAT=/usr/bin/safecat MAILD=/home/petro/Maildir/ $here=`pwd` for DIR in `ls -1` do echo doing $here/ $DIR : if [ ! -d $MAILDIR/$DIR ] then mkdir -m 2700 $MAILD/$DIR mkdir -m 2700 $MAILD/$DIR/cur mkdir -m 2700 $MAILD/$DIR/new mkdir -m 2700 $MAILD/$DIR/tmp fi cd $DIR echo Inside: pwd for FLE in `ls -1` do cat $FLE | $SAFECAT $MAILD/$DIR/tmp $MAILD/$DIR/cur done cd .. echo $DIR done done Basically safecat is just used to give the MH mail file the proper Maildir name. You could fake this by generating your own. According to the safecat man page the format for the file name is time.pid.host, where time is seconds in the Unix Epoch, pid is, well, pid, and host is, well, the hostname. Any, HTH. -- Share and Enjoy.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:59:15PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: begin Alan James quotation: Are you still using MH folders ? How'd you get mutt to show a list of MH folders with the new message count for each ? I converted my MH folders to maildir and now I use that. Mutt seems to handle maildir better, and it's a better format in general (you don't have to lock the whole folder to add or remove messages). Craig I've now gone all mutt. You're right, the lack of sequences support in sylpheed did get annoying. I've got my MH folders displaying the way I wanted now too, but mutt seems to get things wrong occasionally and say theres new mail when there isnt. I'd like to give maildir a go, so how do I convert MH to MailDir ? Alan
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
begin Alan James quotation: I'd like to give maildir a go, so how do I convert MH to MailDir ? If you use procmail, just set up new empty maildir folders corresponding to each of your old MH folders, edit .procmailrc to use the new folders (and to know that they're in maildir format), then run all your old messages back through procmail again. Craig pgp2UkXAHB39G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 08:37:06PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: (and to know that they're in maildir format), then run all your old messages back through procmail again. I believe procmail comes with a utility called 'formail' which you might find useful for this. Chris Hilts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:06:10 -0800 Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net wrote: I dunno. Don't have it installed anymore. Pretty recent version of the non-claws version (last month or so). The memory leak was a slow but substantial one. I was often leaving Sylpheed running for days, but after a couple it would have about 50MB under its process (and be starting to drag a little). So, it's probably a small leak (1K or less), that just adds up over time. ok, I'll talk to upstream about this []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On 24 Feb 2002 20:28:56 + Patrick Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 19:55, Bill Moseley wrote: At 11:25 AM 02/24/02 -0800, Eric G. Miller wrote: Although I read that IMAP can be slow if you have many mailboxes (I have almost 100), and hundreds of messages a day. I have the same problem. The truth is that most mail cleints that claim to be IMAP compliant are simply unusable. syplheed exposes a list of each and every item in the directory where the mail account lives. so on one of my servers, syplheed shows over 500 items and I have to select my active mailboxes from that lot! one of the Sylpheed-Claws' devel said: The IMAP server directory (on the Receive tab in acoount settings) parameter can help in this case. Put all mailboxes under the same directory (e.g. ~/Mail) and enter the name of that directory (relative to home, e.g. Mail in this case) as the IMAP server directory. I don't use/know IMAP, so I'm unable to help... []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:53:02 -0300 Gustavo Noronha Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:06:10 -0800 Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net wrote: I dunno. Don't have it installed anymore. Pretty recent version of the non-claws version (last month or so). The memory leak was a slow but substantial one. I was often leaving Sylpheed running for days, but after a couple it would have about 50MB under its process (and be starting to drag a little). So, it's probably a small leak (1K or less), that just adds up over time. ok, I'll talk to upstream about this I saw this in 0.7.0. Haven't seen it in 0.7.2, since I shut down most userland programs before doing my nightly apt-get upgrade. -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81| || | 484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 ! ! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. ! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:00:03 -0600 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dunno. Don't have it installed anymore. Pretty recent version of the non-claws version (last month or so). The memory leak was a slow but substantial one. I was often leaving Sylpheed running for days, but after a couple it would have about 50MB under its process (and be starting to drag a little). So, it's probably a small leak (1K or less), that just adds up over time. ok, I'll talk to upstream about this I saw this in 0.7.0. Haven't seen it in 0.7.2, since I shut down most userland programs before doing my nightly apt-get upgrade. well, from Hiroyuki: I think the bloat is because of the log messages in LogWindow keeps growing (this is significant on IMAP4 because of the log size). I've already got a patch to solve this by limiting the log size (though it requires some modification), so it will be solved in the near future. maybe that's not leak, at all []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:36:18 -0500 Bob Thibodeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I'd try Sylpheed after seing mention of it on this list, but never felt like configuring another client. Now that I've read it doesn't play nice with mutt, I'll just remove it. I've got it working reasonable nicely with mutt/procmail. The only issue is that slypheed uses its own mechanism for marking mail as read rather than a sequences file. This means that when I use mutt, I see the mail thats new since the last time i ran mutt, and Sylpheed shows whats new since I last ran sylpheed. This is only a very minor annoyance though, and I think I'll stick with this configuration for a while. I was particularly impressed with Sylpheeds GPG handling, something that Balsa, which I was using previously, lacks. Of course migrating to Sylpheed means converting your mailboxes into MH format, and modifying your procmail scripts to use rcvstore. Alan
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
begin Alan James quotation: Bob Thibodeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I'd try Sylpheed after seing mention of it on this list, but never felt like configuring another client. Now that I've read it doesn't play nice with mutt, I'll just remove it. I've got it working reasonable nicely with mutt/procmail. The only issue is that slypheed uses its own mechanism for marking mail as read rather than a sequences file. This means that when I use mutt, I see the mail thats new since the last time i ran mutt, and Sylpheed shows whats new since I last ran sylpheed. This is only a very minor annoyance though, and I think I'll stick with this configuration for a while. I found it a major annoyance, but maybe I just receive a lot more mail than you do. To me, also, there was the basic question, why do I need two different mail clients? Aside from the lack of point-and-click to select messages, mutt has a pretty decent UI, and it's customizable enough that I was able to work around the things that annoyed me the most about it. So now I just use mutt. Of course migrating to Sylpheed means converting your mailboxes into MH format, and modifying your procmail scripts to use rcvstore. Procmail understands MH format, so why do you need rcvstore? Craig pgpWXyL1UOjOh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:44:30 -0800 Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found it a major annoyance, but maybe I just receive a lot more mail than you do. Probably, ive just joined this list, and I've more than doubled my daily mail. To me, also, there was the basic question, why do I need two different mail clients? Aside from the lack of point-and-click to select messages, mutt has a pretty decent UI, and it's customizable enough that I was able to work around the things that annoyed me the most about it. So now I just use mutt. Are you still using MH folders ? How'd you get mutt to show a list of MH folders with the new message count for each ? I'll probably go all mutt too, when I get to know it a bit better. Procmail understands MH format, so why do you need rcvstore? I cant remember. There was something I didnt like about procmails handling. Craig
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
begin Alan James quotation: Are you still using MH folders ? How'd you get mutt to show a list of MH folders with the new message count for each ? I converted my MH folders to maildir and now I use that. Mutt seems to handle maildir better, and it's a better format in general (you don't have to lock the whole folder to add or remove messages). Craig pgpUapuZKYbjx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 09:38:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: I was using RedHat 7.2 for a while and I actually liked the KDE setup, although a bit heavy weight. But I also like how light-weight of a setup I now have with Debian. (I suppose I'll need a desktop environment at some point.) The Ice Window Manager is about as lightweight as they come. Evolution: Still very buggy. Would suit people who actually like Ouchlook Express. Mahogany: No idea. Aethera: No idea. Balsa: Very basic but does its limited functions well. Sylpheed: (which I just read about on this list). Quite nice. Used and discarded. Have a look at TKmail (http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~raines/tkmail.html) and KMail. Star Office has its own mail program as well. Also, on my home machines (I think) I'd like to switch to IMAP to make managing mail from different locations a bit better. I know very little about IMAP. Currently I think I've got about 50,000 messages in my Eudora folders, so I'm not clear if IMAP will be slow working with that many messages. I used to love GUI mail programs but after using Mutt for about five months, I wouldn't dream of going back. Sam -- Sam Varghese http://www.gnubies.com Linux and all free software is not about the smell of money but the improvement of community
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 09:38:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: And not related to email, anyone have a replacement suggestion (other than Emacs ;) for my old basic friend on the windows side of Program File Editor (pfe)? Don't waste time with emacs and vi. Try jed. It's the best console editor for those are used to windows shortcut.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 05:55, Timothy R. Butler wrote: I was using RedHat 7.2 for a while and I actually liked the KDE setup, although a bit heavy weight. But I also like how light-weight of a setup I now have with Debian. (I suppose I'll need a desktop environment at some point.) xfce is a very nice lightweight desktop environment. It uses a little more horsepower than twm but not much as the code is based on twm. I only started using it yesterday but its nice and clean. Intergrates nicely with both kde and gnome though its a lot closer to gnome. [snip] Evolution: Nice, although I hear it has a number of annoying bugs. Also it doesn't seem to handle GPG/PGP very well. If you use KDE, prepare for the fact it won't integrate at all. Evolution is very nice. It handles GPG perfectly but not PGP though that could be becauses I haven't set the mime handler correctly. [snip] Let me recommend KMail. It's light weight, has a nice selection of features (including IMAP), a very nice contact manager, good speed on even very large folders (I'm on the SuSE list, and it only takes a matter of maybe 10 sec. on my old 450 MHz desktop for a 50,000 message folder to load). Small folders are very responsive. I moved from Outlook to KMail and I've been very pleased with it - it has a great interface. Oh, and the filters are very good too! Kmail is very nice. It handles IMAP well though it doesn't have the useful shortcut panel that Evolution does. this matters if you have more than one account. And not related to email, anyone have a replacement suggestion (other than Emacs ;) for my old basic friend on the windows side of Program File Editor (pfe)? If you are looking for a text-based interface, I'd recommend nano (a pico clone). For a GUI, Kate provides a very nice MDI interface, that seems like a light IDE. I really like both of these editors a lot. Agreed. I'd also like to find a nice client like SecureCRT for linux. Something a
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On 23/02/02 Bill Moseley did speaketh: My head is swimming a bit trying to limit my choices of mail clients to test. My personal preference is Mutt, but coming from browsers and Eudora, you might want to try something simpler to begin with. Evolution is not ready, IMHO. Even at 1.0 subcomponents crashed on me constantly. Sylpheed is excellent I'm told. Mozilla is at 0.9.8 and coming along to a 1.0 soon. Try downloading the binary from mozilla.org and install into a subdirectory to play with. I don't yet use the .debs for it but I will when it goes 1.0. KMail is an excellent mail client, and you don't technically need to run KDE to use it, but you'll obviously need the base libraries. Text clients like Pine and Mutt require you to set up other components like a local mail server, and preferably fetchmail and procmail. We'll help you with that too, but you might want to try something more windowsy first. As far as text editors, I _highly_ recommend that you take the time to try both Vim and Emacs, and pick one to specialize with. Text editing is far too common a task to default to a notepad clone with. Hope this helps. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier [EMAIL PROTECTED], GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08 ...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount of nerd-like effort. -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix pgpenfF7Ye60O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:38:37 -0800 From: Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] . . . Like many, I'm coming from a Windows environment. I've got three linux machines under my desk and for a year now I've booted Win98 used basically only browsers and Eudora (3.0) on my Win98 machine . . . So, to start off with, I'm looking to make the transition to full-time Linux easy by finding similar tools to I'm used to using. [snip] Similarities can be confusing. Maybe -- maybe -- you'd do better to accept differences, even seek them out. Example: Some of the basic commands in Unix resemble those in the WinDOSe world, I'm told that some users try to speed learning by aliasing rm to del so on. However, Unix is _not_ DOS, after the first dozen commands or so things just don't work the same. Another: vi. It seems that many users are revolted by its modal character -- its refusal to behave like Word. But black white are easier to distinguish precisely because there are no shades of grey. I realize that purely personal preferences may prevail, what works for me may not work for you. Just so we keep in mind that such things can be turned wrong side out.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
begin Michael P. Soulier quotation: Sylpheed is excellent I'm told. Sylpheed is quite nice. I don't use it myself because I don't want to be dependent on an X app to read my mail (I use mutt), but my wife switched to Sylpheed after we decided that Outlook Express was too dangerous, and she's quite happy with it. Craig pgp1brNyBpKMP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
At 08:46 AM 02/24/02 -0800, Wendell Cochran wrote: So, to start off with, I'm looking to make the transition to full-time Linux easy by finding similar tools to I'm used to using. [snip] Similarities can be confusing. Maybe -- maybe -- you'd do better to accept differences, even seek them out. Thanks for the advice. I'll try to keep an open mind. Another: vi. It seems that many users are revolted by its modal character -- its refusal to behave like Word. But black white are easier to distinguish precisely because there are no shades of grey. I have a color monitor, but thanks I'll keep that in mind. It's hard to teach an old (really old) dog new tricks, especially when one's trying to remain productive. My goal is to find similar tools so I can quickly transition to linux as a desktop and keep right on working. But, I'll learn vim, I promise. I used to use vi way back -- but that's all there was then. It sure was a lot easier than those damn punch cards. -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 09:33:55AM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: Sylpheed is quite nice. I don't use it myself because I don't want to be dependent on an X app to read my mail (I use mutt), but my wife switched to Sylpheed after we decided that Outlook Express was too dangerous, and she's quite happy with it. Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? BTW -- why would using an X mail application exclude you from also running mutt?
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] quotation: Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? Yes, in Woody and Sid. BTW -- why would using an X mail application exclude you from also running mutt? It's not so much prevented as made sufficiently painful. I tried using Sylpheed and mutt together several months ago, and at that time it did not work well because Sylpheed and mutt used incompatible ways of indicating that a message has been read. I would read messages in one program, then run the other and see all those messages still marked as new. That was too annoying for words, considering the amount of mail I get every day. So, since I need a non-X MUA for ssh sessions from remote locations over slow connections, I just stopped using Sylpheed. Craig pgpSsHrAhgncq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:41:54 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 09:33:55AM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: Sylpheed is quite nice. I don't use it myself because I don't want to be dependent on an X app to read my mail (I use mutt), but my wife switched to Sylpheed after we decided that Outlook Express was too dangerous, and she's quite happy with it. Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? Yes. And in two flavours. Sylpheed, the vanilla version, and Sylpheed-claws, the strawberry bleeding-edge version, which is actually stable enough for my none-too-demanding needs. BTW -- why would using an X mail application exclude you from also running mutt? No, it won't. But it does pose a problem if you suddenly misconfigured X. As a fall-back I began learning mutt ;-). You can run Sylpheed alongside with mutt if you use the MH format for your mailbox. You can even use Sylpheed as a popclient and mailfilter for mutt. The only problem I've had is with rereading mail. Mail marked as read in mutt doesn't appear as read in Sylpheed.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:05:13 -0800 Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] quotation: Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? Yes, in Woody and Sid. BTW -- why would using an X mail application exclude you from also running mutt? It's not so much prevented as made sufficiently painful. I tried using Sylpheed and mutt together several months ago, and at that time it did not work well because Sylpheed and mutt used incompatible ways of indicating that a message has been read. I would read messages in one program, then run the other and see all those messages still marked as new. That was too annoying for words, considering the amount of mail I get every day. So, since I need a non-X MUA for ssh sessions from remote locations over slow connections, I just stopped using Sylpheed. Interesting. Is there a Standard Way of indicating that MH mails have been read? -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81| || | 484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 ! ! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. ! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:00:15PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:05:13 -0800 Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] quotation: Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? Yes, in Woody and Sid. BTW -- why would using an X mail application exclude you from also running mutt? It's not so much prevented as made sufficiently painful. I tried using Sylpheed and mutt together several months ago, and at that time it did not work well because Sylpheed and mutt used incompatible ways of indicating that a message has been read. I would read messages in one program, then run the other and see all those messages still marked as new. That was too annoying for words, considering the amount of mail I get every day. So, since I need a non-X MUA for ssh sessions from remote locations over slow connections, I just stopped using Sylpheed. Interesting. Is there a Standard Way of indicating that MH mails have been read? I believe nmh uses .mh_sequences or some such. So, that would probably be the standard way. Sylpheed uses it's own sequence file, so it won't even jibe with the mh way of managing mail. This is something the Sylpheed folks should fix. I tried to get gkrellm to watch my mailboxes when using sylpheed, but it never worked because of this. -- Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
At 11:25 AM 02/24/02 -0800, Eric G. Miller wrote: I believe nmh uses .mh_sequences or some such. So, that would probably be the standard way. Sylpheed uses it's own sequence file, so it won't even jibe with the mh way of managing mail. This is something the Sylpheed folks should fix. I tried to get gkrellm to watch my mailboxes when using sylpheed, but it never worked because of this. Would IMAP be a solution to all of this? Although I read that IMAP can be slow if you have many mailboxes (I have almost 100), and hundreds of messages a day. -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 19:55, Bill Moseley wrote: At 11:25 AM 02/24/02 -0800, Eric G. Miller wrote: Although I read that IMAP can be slow if you have many mailboxes (I have almost 100), and hundreds of messages a day. I have the same problem. The truth is that most mail cleints that claim to be IMAP compliant are simply unusable. syplheed exposes a list of each and every item in the directory where the mail account lives. so on one of my servers, syplheed shows over 500 items and I have to select my active mailboxes from that lot! I find mutt running locally is very good. Its actiually more convenient that it can be run with multiple sessions on the same mail account. So I can have mutt -f Mail/rootmail and mutt -f Mail/debian. Evolution is a heavy application and has some quirks. but it is a very good IMAP client in that it allows shortcuts to your frequently used mailboxes and only asks you to select from mailboxes as opposed to all files.
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 14:28, Patrick Kirk wrote: Evolution is a heavy application and has some quirks. but it is a very good IMAP client in that it allows shortcuts to your frequently used mailboxes and only asks you to select from mailboxes as opposed to all files. I run an IMAP server to make it easier to get at my mail remotely, and Evolution works great with it. Yes, Evolution is a bit on the heavy side, but if you've got a relatively recent system, it's not really noticeable. As for speed with IMAP, I've got about a dozen folders holding ~10,000 messages, and I have no complaints. I periodically run a filter which moves messages older than 1 month to an Archive folder so that my inbox stays around 500 messages, and it takes about 1.5 seconds for the folder to open when I'm on the LAN. (Time will vary depending on your connection speed to the IMAP server.) -Alex p.s. In regards to the original message, esp. the part about a good text editor, I'd STRONGLY encourage anyone who doesn't already know one, to either learn Vim or Emacs. I perfer Emacs and I have all of my Gnome keybindings set to Emacs style, and each passing day I wonder how I ever lived without it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:22:22 -0800 Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: begin Michael P. Soulier quotation: Sylpheed is excellent I'm told. Sylpheed is quite nice. I don't use it myself because I don't want to be dependent on an X app to read my mail (I use mutt), but my wife switched to Sylpheed after we decided that Outlook Express was too dangerous, and she's quite happy with it. yes, I, my girlfriend , mother and sister all use sylpheed... it is the better mail client I used.. I come from KDE 1.2's kmail, which runned quite well on my 486... newer doesn't, and sylpheed runs smootlhy on it []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:41:54 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 09:33:55AM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: Sylpheed is quite nice. I don't use it myself because I don't want to be dependent on an X app to read my mail (I use mutt), but my wife switched to Sylpheed after we decided that Outlook Express was too dangerous, and she's quite happy with it. Is there a debian package for Sylpheed? yes, I am the maintainer []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:56:23 -0800 Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net wrote: Possibly dead? Sylpheed: (which I just read about on this list). Works pretty well. Is fairly lightweight. I noticed it leaks a significant amount of memory over time (days). No idea about IMAP support (think it's supported, don't know how well). what version? memory leaks should be fixed =P []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://www.metainfo.org/kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 06:30:17PM -0300, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:56:23 -0800 Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net wrote: Possibly dead? Sylpheed: (which I just read about on this list). Works pretty well. Is fairly lightweight. I noticed it leaks a significant amount of memory over time (days). No idea about IMAP support (think it's supported, don't know how well). what version? memory leaks should be fixed =P I dunno. Don't have it installed anymore. Pretty recent version of the non-claws version (last month or so). The memory leak was a slow but substantial one. I was often leaving Sylpheed running for days, but after a couple it would have about 50MB under its process (and be starting to drag a little). So, it's probably a small leak (1K or less), that just adds up over time. -- Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
I switched from Eudora and Pegasus in Windows to Elm and now mutt in Linux. I found the transition to be painless, although I did miss the folder handling in the early days. I did run Pegasus with WINE for a while, but made the final switch because I wanted to get away from the non-standard mailbox format. I thought I'd try Sylpheed after seing mention of it on this list, but never felt like configuring another client. Now that I've read it doesn't play nice with mutt, I'll just remove it. I'm a pfe fan from way back. I still install it on any Windows machine I'm forced to use for an extended period of time. For most quick-and-dirty editing under Linux, I run whatever vi clone I have. When the mood strikes me, I use emacs ( for instance as my mail editor with mutt ). Bob On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 09:38:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: My head is swimming a bit trying to limit my choices of mail clients to test. I'm wondering if someone can help narrow my choices. Background: Like many, I'm coming from a Windows environment. I've got three linux machines under my desk and for a year now I've booted Win98 used basically only browsers and Eudora (3.0) on my Win98 machine, and spent all day with SecureCRT ssh'ed into my Linux machines and to other machines I work with. So, for graphical mail clients: Knowing that I'm coming from a simple life with Eudora (and have never liked Outlook), any comments or simple overviews of the following: I know it's a lot to ask, but please no flame wars on which client stinks or is best. I guess I'm looking for someone with a similar history as mine that can say try this, or Evolution is cool, but it's too huge and slow... Also, on my home machines (I think) I'd like to switch to IMAP to make managing mail from different locations a bit better. I know very little about IMAP. Currently I think I've got about 50,000 messages in my Eudora folders, so I'm not clear if IMAP will be slow working with that many messages. And not related to email, anyone have a replacement suggestion (other than Emacs ;) for my old basic friend on the windows side of Program File Editor (pfe)?
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
I was using RedHat 7.2 for a while and I actually liked the KDE setup, although a bit heavy weight. But I also like how light-weight of a setup I now have with Debian. (I suppose I'll need a desktop environment at some point.) You might give KDE 2.2.2 (from unstable) a try. It feels much lighter in Debian than RedHat. The nice thing is you could stick to a very light weight KDE here - maybe just kdebase, konqueror, and konsole - or something like that. So, for graphical mail clients: Knowing that I'm coming from a simple life with Eudora (and have never liked Outlook), any comments or simple overviews of the following: That makes things easier than for Outlook users... Evolution: Nice, although I hear it has a number of annoying bugs. Also it doesn't seem to handle GPG/PGP very well. If you use KDE, prepare for the fact it won't integrate at all. Mahogany: Can't remember why I didn't like this one - I think it's contact manager was too light for my taste, IIRC. Aethera: Personally, I see theKompany as a company without a clear vision. Aethera's latest beta is the buggest yet from what I have heard. It'd probably be wise to look elsewhere. This is a pure QT app now, it does not integrate with KDE, and Palm syncing requires a proprietary $10 product. Balsa: Fine, although like Mahogany if you want anything more then the most basic contact management, look elsewhere. Let me recommend KMail. It's light weight, has a nice selection of features (including IMAP), a very nice contact manager, good speed on even very large folders (I'm on the SuSE list, and it only takes a matter of maybe 10 sec. on my old 450 MHz desktop for a 50,000 message folder to load). Small folders are very responsive. I moved from Outlook to KMail and I've been very pleased with it - it has a great interface. Oh, and the filters are very good too! And not related to email, anyone have a replacement suggestion (other than Emacs ;) for my old basic friend on the windows side of Program File Editor (pfe)? If you are looking for a text-based interface, I'd recommend nano (a pico clone). For a GUI, Kate provides a very nice MDI interface, that seems like a light IDE. I really like both of these editors a lot. I'd also like to find a nice client like SecureCRT for linux. Something a little more feature rich than xterm. Well, if you want some kind of better shell, take a look at Konsole. It is nicely customizable, and you can run a bunch of sessions concurrently in one window. It works great. Best, Tim -- Timothy R. Butler[EMAIL PROTECTED] Universal Networks http://www.uninet.info Christian Portal and Search Tool: http://www.faithtree.com Open Source Migration Guide: http://www.ofb.biz = Christian Web Services Since 1996 ==
Re: Mail clients (and text editors)
On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 09:38:37PM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote: Evolution: No comment other than lots of eye candy and resource demands. Several like it. It and its brethren nautilus are just to resource intensive for my old hardware. Mahogany: No idea. Aethera: No idea. Balsa: Possibly dead? Sylpheed: (which I just read about on this list). Works pretty well. Is fairly lightweight. I noticed it leaks a significant amount of memory over time (days). No idea about IMAP support (think it's supported, don't know how well). Several people like kmail, I haven't looked at it in year(s). I've gone back to mutt and VIM after playing with GUI's for a few months... And not related to email, anyone have a replacement suggestion (other than Emacs ;) for my old basic friend on the windows side of Program File Editor (pfe)? Too many possibilities. I'm a VIM fan, so that's about all I can say... I'd also like to find a nice client like SecureCRT for linux. Something a little more feature rich than xterm. Which features are missing? -- Eric G. Miller egm2@jps.net
RE: mail clients
Well, there is one email client that will do most of what Outlook Express does. XFmail. Not used alone though, but together with exim and fetchmail it works great for me. I have two accounts dealt with fine using XFmail. Using filters, and the option to set a custom From for every folder it is very easy to run several accounts from this email client. Using XFmail's built in POP3 and smtp is not a good idea since it won't send and receive in the background. But letting exim do the mail deliveries it is a fast reliable solution. The sad thing is that XFmail doesn't seem to be developed anymore. So if a coder would take XFmail and bring it forward we WOULD have a decent X email client. On 22-May-99 Jim B wrote: Hi all. Is there a good POP3 and/or IMAP4 client (console or GUI, doesn't matter) that supports multiple accounts with easy switching between them... and that can filter based on the account concept rather than just on headers? If I'm not making sense, I'm looking for something for Linux that can do what MS Outlook Express can do. Here's an example: One account is username joe and another account is username tom. Someone sends to joe and the mail is filtered into his mailbox... meanwhile, tom's mail is filtered into his mailbox. BUT, if someone BCCs joe, his username will not appear in the headers... therefore, header-based filtering will be useless. The client needs to be able to filter the mail into the joe mailbox despite the fact that his address is not in the headers. The idea is simple, it just needs to know From what account did I download this message? in order to be able to direct it appropriately, despite what may be in the headers of the message. Anyone know of such a client? Pine's roles don't cut it as a single login cannot access multiple e-mail accounts. Also, procmail doesn't come into the picture because the filtering rules must be client-based so that all these mail accounts can be accessed from a single terminal login session, rather than by logging out and then back into another session. Thanks!!! -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null --- Regards, Christian Dysthe Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bigfoot.com/~cdysthe ICQ 3945810 Date: 25-May-99 Time: 17:48:45 Powered by Debian GNU/Linux --- Clones are people two
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Re: mail clients
JB == Jim B [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dispite some vocal mails from other users, I have a simple solution for you. JB Someone sends to joe and the mail is filtered into his JB mailbox... meanwhile, tom's mail is filtered into his mailbox. No problem. postilion does this without any problems. You can have local or remote folders (like pop3, imap), and for each folder, you define name, emailaddress etc. It has some other nice features as well. Another option is to use fetchmail, and add an indication for the mailbox you fetch to the program call in the mda option. This way you have sorted them into different folders. Now you just need to use a mail client that uses different identities depending on the folder you are in. AFAIK, this is no problem with mutt. Gnus, *the* news/mail client, does this with ease as well. Try the first suggestion first. If you want to try the second possibility as the firstone doesn't fulfil your needs, I can get more specific. Ciao, Martin
Re: mail clients
SP == Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SP Windows is designed for the causal user. That's great, SP initially. There is no learning curve, Hahahahahahah. Sorry. I work parttime on phone support to pay for my studies. I can assure you, that a current Linux is no more complicated to learn than Windows, when the user is new to computers. I just got your CD. What do I do now? - Well, you put it in your CD drive and start setup from the CD. - How do I do this? Set someone (a relative or such) infront of windows 95 and tell them to copy a file a textfile you have on the harddisk to a floppy. They won't be able to do this. So far about no learning curve. Also users comming from Windows 3.1 can't use Windows95 initially. They have to learn *much* as well, as many things changed. I also casually spek to them. Therefore you often still find windows3.11 at work (at least here), even on new computers. It is sufficient, it is what the employees know, the sysadmins know the quirks of the different software acting together (win + lotus + whatever), and you don't have to spend a huge amount of money to teach them a new windows. If you take a person, who isn't spoilt by windows paradigmen, and give hin/her a current Linux distribution, they won't have more problems using it than windows. But they have to have someone to ask questions. They will do this when then install windows as well. Hmm, quite off topic now. Ciao, Martin
Re: mail clients
Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: See /usr/doc/exim/filter.txt.gz It answered all of my questions. See also info exim-filter. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 18:20:27 -0700 (PDT), George Bonser wrote: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Stephen Pitts wrote: Mutt/fetchmail/exim works fine for me, with 2 accounts. Contrary to popular Mutt is a non-option for most users who want the functionality of Outlook. Things like drag/drop and shared folders are very important in that context. Mutt would get laughed out of the room. OK, let me jump back in here for a moment. The whole reason I have yet to switch my mail reading to a 'nix client isn't GUI considerations. I know that isn't your point here, George, just using your message to take a tangent. ;) My main beef is that most, if not all, 'nix clients consider all mail that comes into a physical account also coming into the same virtual account. This is especially true with the fetchmail/[procmail|exim]/mutt route. However, it is also true with Outlook Express, Eudora Pro, etc. What I am used to using is an MUA which treats each account as a completely seperate entity. Seperate POP/SMTP servers, seperate from lines, seperate signatures, seperate filters, seperate inboxes, seperate outboxes, 95% seperation. My only point of contention is that they accounts share an address book, and that I can live with. The seperate is so complete that if I archive up the directory of one account, *nothing* breaks elsewhere. It simply disappears. I do this to move mail from home to work and back, to have an archive account, even to keep old accounts around with their complete context intact. Now, people have pointed out, rightfully, that this can me emulated, nearly, with fetchmail/[filtering]/mutt. However, I do not consider this an option for the average user. This is because nothing is really inhereted from the account above. Everything needs to be defined on a folder by folder basis and mutt simply is not up to the task visually. It's alert of *where* new mail is is lacking. Filters for new mailing lists into new accounts need to be created manually, etc. Great for the people who want to hack it together, all the power to them, but it is not an option. Now, please note, I am not saying that it doesn't work for people. I just want it acknowledged by those people that it is *NOT* the same as what the people are asking for, not by a long shot. If it works for you, fine, but please don't say it is *THE* way to do things. It is not *THE* way, it is *A* way. I am also well aware of the power of fitting pieces together like pipework. You can get from point A to point B. I wouldn't be in the position I am now or hold the positions I have in the past (all SysAdmin related on FreeBSD and Solaris boxes) without knowing the strengths of that. But it is also from that viewpoint that I know the weaknesses. Like pipeworks, you can get from point A to point B. However, if you need a complex system build out of those pipes you soon end up with a rats nest of pipes and you're not sure exactly where things are coming from and going to. So while, IMHO, fetchmail/[filter]/mutt (or whatever) works well for a single user who isn't too concerned about total seperation of accounts within the application, it fails for those who want or need total seperation from inside the application. I stress *inside the application* because one could also simply have multiple accounts on a machine and SU between them. This is not the same as sitting in a single application and doing the work. Also, people have pointed out that it is a very Windows-esque way of looking at things, a single monolithic application that does Everything. I don't see it that way. MUAs, on 'nix, are the only client/server application which is not expected to handle its own connections and databases. A web browser is responsible for retrieving and sending its own data to and from the server. Same for FTP, telnet, etc, etc, etc. Transport, at the MUA level, is talking to the appropriate POP/SMTP/IMAP servers directly. Right now we need fetchmail to really handle multiple accounts effectively. Filtering is nothing more than handling the databases the MUA is using. While I am aware of the strengths of procmail and exims filters, I do not feel they should be the one and ONLY source of filtering. The MUA should be responsible for filtering on its own criteria. I stress this because if an MUA is going to handle transport from multiple POP servers, as it should, it needs to be able to apply some filters to those messages. One can still have server side filtering on those boxes, but those filters, in the pop sense, fail since there is no way to access multiple boxes through POP. Finally, handling multiple accounts in completely seperate environments is also a requirement. Seperate inboxes, seperate outboxes, seperate filters, seperate folders, seperate signatures, PGP keys, etc. The reason for this is so that the user can simply and easily create
Re: mail clients
Define casual user. People who spend 4+ hours/day on the computer, whether it be for business, or for school, or just for fun, are not casual users. I think that a whole lot more of the market fits that criteria than most people realize. Windows is designed for the causal user. That's great, initially. There is no learning curve, but you are limited in terms of functionality. Get Outlook Express to automatically delete messages two weeks old in three specific folders. Get Windows to automagically backup your database files every day, at exactly 12:00 noon, running the database through a compression program and automagically setting the date. Set it up so you can fix your database if it breaks down when you are halfway across the world. And do it all, day in, day out, without crashing. Instead of complaining about the learning curve, start learning. WOW! Isn't that a scary word? Windows is not Linux. Linux is not Windows. Both have different target audiences, and the Linux audience likes to learn. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
Windows is not Linux. Linux is not Windows. This is not about what OS is for whom, who is what kind of user, or anything like that. The question is: Does a client with these features exist for the Linux platform? If one does not, it would be nice if somebody made one. It doesn't have to be any more complex an issue than that. Until one does exist, I will continue to use Windows for my mail needs since it DOES have a client that fits MY needs (maybe not YOUR needs, but MY needs). And, I will use Linux for everything else. =) - Original Message - From: Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Sunday, May 23, 1999 12:42 AM Subject: Re: mail clients Define casual user. People who spend 4+ hours/day on the computer, whether it be for business, or for school, or just for fun, are not casual users. I think that a whole lot more of the market fits that criteria than most people realize. Windows is designed for the causal user. That's great, initially. There is no learning curve, but you are limited in terms of functionality. Get Outlook Express to automatically delete messages two weeks old in three specific folders. Get Windows to automagically backup your database files every day, at exactly 12:00 noon, running the database through a compression program and automagically setting the date. Set it up so you can fix your database if it breaks down when you are halfway across the world. And do it all, day in, day out, without crashing. Instead of complaining about the learning curve, start learning. WOW! Isn't that a scary word? Windows is not Linux. Linux is not Windows. Both have different target audiences, and the Linux audience likes to learn. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: mail clients
On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 06:45:27PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 21:08:26 -0500, Stephen Pitts wrote: Wrong. If you use the multiple accounts support built into Communicator, you have seperate preferences, bookmarks, mail folders, etc. Try it out. It should do what you want.. No, that would be like logging into seperate accounts on Linux. No, all accounts should be accessable from a single window/login AT THE SAME TIME. Multiplexing multiple single account applications does not equal a single application handling multiple accounts. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0ddt3pf7K2LbpnFEQLp+ACg2yOJgLtdlAF8ripdviDYQXe4QFQAoKT6 mD6M2gmanDq1gGpHWhbhKJhj =URmG -END PGP SIGNATURE- Why not just have multiple instances of Communicator? It sounds to me like you've become so attached to this particular piece of software that you believe that you can't work any other way. Don't yell, I'm not responsible for your problems. In the past, Linux users faced with a problem have programmed around it. Thus, we have a dozen different window managers and a dozen different mail clients. But, now, we are faced with a new group of users that whine all day long, but don't lift a finger to solve the problem. What a shame! -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 23:42:05 -0500, Stephen Pitts wrote: Define casual user. People who spend 4+ hours/day on the computer, whether it be for business, or for school, or just for fun, are not casual users. I think that a whole lot more of the market fits that criteria than most people realize. I'm sorry, I cannot agree. My mother works on a computer 8 hours a day as an administrative assistant. She is a casual user. Time on a computer per day != proficiency. Instead of complaining about the learning curve, start learning. WOW! Isn't that a scary word? Windows is not Linux. Linux is not Windows. Both have different target audiences, and the Linux audience likes to learn. Start learning? This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Stephen, I don't know who you are, but let me tell you who *I* am. I joined Netcom in the early 90s. 91 or so. Netcom, at the time, was *only* shell accounts. I learned shells, started with nn and joe and pine and filter. For over 4 years I ran my BBS across 3 different OSs, 8 months of that while I was a truck driver on the road. Returning from that job in 95/96 I was hired on as tech support at a local ISP and within 6 months had root and was performing admin functions. I also installed Linux on a dedicated machine during that time. I've since left that ISP after working my way up to SysAdmin working on 20+ FreeBSD servers and associated hardware/wiring/etc. I was the chief man for remote router installs. Now I'm an admin in the web department of a national ISP. I work day to day on Solaris boxes. Know what? Learning isn't my problem. I am pissed at the way ISPs are going because I can't get just a direct pipe to the 'net. I run all my own services. Even with all that... I don't want to hobbble together something functional for mail. Now, can I get any more explicit than that about the fact that I'm not making an unreasonable observation and it isn't because I don't know how to work my whay through at least three different variations of Unix? It is because I don't *WANT* to. It is TOO MUCH WORK to do the easy things. You're right, you can't get Windows to do a lot of that stuff. I acknowledged that when I said make the *EASY* things *EASY* as well as the hard things. No, this isn't a my dick is bigger than your dick message. I'm tired of people thinking I'm some newbie out here asking for the impossible. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0eLA3pf7K2LbpnFEQJr2ACg6UaiSSB5BbtkqDmIz1/Fcxbwq68AnjgP dDdpKFZLyu9IX+UCqDgqrfHe =IPpx -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 23:45:39 -0500, Stephen Pitts wrote: Why not just have multiple instances of Communicator? Then that wouldn't be a single application, would it? It sounds to me like you've become so attached to this particular piece of software that you believe that you can't work any other way. Oh, I know I can. But not as efficiently. Don't yell, I'm not responsible for your problems. That wasn't yelling, that was emphasis for a point I knew you would miss. You are, in part, responisble for my problems. You are part of the crowd that keeps harping that *your* way is *the* way to the exclusion of all others. In the past, Linux users faced with a problem have programmed around it. Thus, we have a dozen different window managers and a dozen different mail clients. But, now, we are faced with a new group of users that whine all day long, but don't lift a finger to solve the problem. What a shame! New? I addressed that in the last message. I also addressed that I cannot program. Most people can't you know. I've also pointed out that I am not opposed to paying for others to program something I would like. That is why I have an offer up on the Software Bazaar and when that one is fulfilled I'll pay for more *OPEN SOURCE* development. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0eMpHpf7K2LbpnFEQJnmgCeLzjICSRac1z/1cW04TYl+GGWG04Aniau Q2UcRq063dsKbvVNFqwRxPWC =bTER -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 22:01:10 -0700 (PDT), George Bonser wrote: xfmail handles multiple pop3 accounts at the same time. I just tried that mahogany program ... caused me to loose about 2000 old messages ... gone, evaporated, dead. But not multiple accounts, seperated completely. It dumps it all into a single outbox, only sends out to one SMTP server, onlt has one outbox. That is unacceptable in a multi-account setup. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0eM+Xpf7K2LbpnFEQLLhQCeO6Z/424krmHgRQxLiPZLBhXW6mcAoNMG d312QVtYGLq3fOIgwUaSMmUE =KixN -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 23 May 1999 00:09:23 -0400, Jim B wrote: This is not about what OS is for whom, who is what kind of user, or anything like that. The question is: Does a client with these features exist for the Linux platform? No. If one does not, it would be nice if somebody made one. It doesn't have to be any more complex an issue than that. It would, but everyone is too stuck on continuing to point out half-assed answers to even think that it would be nice. Until one does exist, I will continue to use Windows for my mail needs since it DOES have a client that fits MY needs (maybe not YOUR needs, but MY needs). And, I will use Linux for everything else. =) Same here. One of the last needs I *need* filled, PROPERLY, and they keep handing me crap. *sigh* I wish someone would fulfill the joe contract on the Software Bazaar so I can put up another one. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0eOInpf7K2LbpnFEQKDAQCgzQQAMeI+OOadb1kqgesb7ttsIewAnjSO y68bXaQJv9tUUbq+7jpx9Lfg =XktF -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
On 23-May-99 George Bonser wrote: xfmail handles multiple pop3 accounts at the same time. I just tried that mahogany program ... caused me to loose about 2000 old messages ... gone, evaporated, dead. It does not work well with any large mailboxes. I am using xfmail too. I tried Mahogany Mail and had some problems with it, but it is new, so I will keep trying new versions as they are released. It complained that my Python is misconfigured, but Python is not absolutely necessary so I won't worry about it. -- Andrew
Re: mail clients
On 1999-05-22 23:45, Stephen Pitts wrote: Why not just have multiple instances of Communicator? That's trouble. To my understanding there is only one lock file for the .netscape directory which would render concurrent access either inoperable or a disaster. Linux users faced with a problem have programmed around it. This is what I would do (sendmail can do the + user thing easily but I don't know if that'll work for other MTAs): .fetchmailrc: poll isp1 user user1 pass secret1 mda /usr/bin/procmail -d localuser -f localuser+user1 poll isp2 user user2 pass secret2 mda /usr/bin/procmail -d localuser -f localuser+user2 .procmailrc: MAILDIR=some_path * ^From localuser+user1 $MAILDIR/user1 * ^From localuser+user2 $MAILDIR/user2 For outgoing mail you have two options: 1. Send out mail for both accounts using the local MTA. This requires a broken MTA setup or that you specified that some user might set the from header. 2. Send out mail using local and remote MTA depending on user. You need a MUA that supports specification of both user and smtp server (and two config files for it). 2 is the better option, it doesn't look like mutt likes remote smtp servers but I could be wrong (just skimmed the docs). There are other MUA that does (communicator for instance). /Allan -- Allan M. Wind Phone: 781.938.5272 (home) 687 Main Street, 2nd Floor Fax:781.938.6641 (fax/modem) Woburn, MA 01801Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home)
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 23 May 1999 02:06:13 -0400, Allan M. Wind wrote: 2 is the better option, it doesn't look like mutt likes remote smtp servers but I could be wrong (just skimmed the docs). There are other MUA that does (communicator for instance). Now you're beginning to understand. Now, let me show you what it takes for me to do the same with an application that does multiple accounts. NEW ACCOUNT Set up incoming Set up outgoing The specifics are irrelevent, GUI or Test (I'd prefer text, personally) you set up three things and you're done because the rest is assumed until expressly said otherwise. How would you filter the different account's mailing lists after filtering them into individual folders? From what I can gather you need to set up filters for each mailing list, which I have to do, granted. Then you need to go into the MUA and set up the account information there for that folder. I don't need to do that, it is assumed unless otherwise specified. It is the little things like that which prevent me from moving over. I'm not saying it doesn't work for you, or others. I'm saying it just doesn't work well enough for me and others I have seen ask for it... repeatedly. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0edkHpf7K2LbpnFEQIyTwCfYLlBciUJHvdBMZNb12m+XzuqdJMAoOOH Il0bL/PF3dtHc9PpZ0XcyoGt =LGJR -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
I don't want to break up this lively discourse but has anyone here tried the IshMail Mail client? I am about to try it but want to know if there are homemade .debs around or if I will have to make them myself. -- John Foster AdVance-Computing Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail clients
On 22 May 99, at 19:03, Steve Lamb wrote about Re: mail clients: [snipped to conserve bandwidth] A perfect example of this is PMMail98 on OS/2 Windows. Yeah, I know, Windows, GUI, ick. But my point is not the GUI, not the mouse, not the keyboard, not the look but the underlying logic of how it handles seperate accounts as completely seperate entities within a single application. Have you tried running this under Wine? That's probably what I'm going to end up doing, except that I run Pegasus, not PMmail98. I've heard reports that Pegasus runs fine under wine (although I haven't heard anything about the latest revision which includes IMAP). I haven't tried it yet for a number of reasons - I was hoping to find a 'nix client that would match it in functionality - but so far no luck :( Note that _if_ it does run *completely* under wine then it would give you the functionality you need/want. [snipped to conserve bandwidth] TTFN == Jan M.- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Fingerprint:397D 093C E802 964E 5316 B90A 93CE 6696 Thought for the day: People make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living. -- Karl Marx
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 23 May 1999 05:06:47 -0400, Jan Muszynski wrote: Have you tried running this under Wine? Yes, doesn't install, doesn't run. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0fIlnpf7K2LbpnFEQJ9NACfRf8hVAMULm/S9BqLAl1xmynXhigAn1Fj WxA43fxlt6hLmkIAxA6aOq5z =G+TM -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
On Sat, May 22, 1999 at 10:01:10PM -0700, George Bonser wrote: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Stephen Pitts wrote: Why not just have multiple instances of Communicator? It sounds to me like you've become so attached to this particular piece of software that you believe that you can't work any other way. Don't yell, I'm not responsible for your problems. In the past, Linux users faced with a problem have programmed around it. Thus, we have a dozen different window managers and a dozen different mail clients. But, now, we are faced with a new group of users that whine all day long, but don't lift a finger to solve the problem. What a shame! -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org xfmail handles multiple pop3 accounts at the same time. I just tried that mahogany program ... caused me to loose about 2000 old messages ... gone, evaporated, dead. It does not work well with any large mailboxes. I tried TKMail a while back and I then realized how fast mutt opens my 2000 message mailing list folders. Oh, well, good luck at finding an email program that fits your needs. BTW, you can run programs as multiple users in one X session. Just do an xhost + in an xterm as the user that started the X server. Then use su username to switch to another user. Finally, run the mail program as another user. That might be the best bet for your situation. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
On Sun, May 23, 1999 at 02:25:47AM -0400, Sean wrote: I've been wanting to set up fetchmail/exim/mutt but I've been having a hell of a time figuring out the syntax for the .forward file. The docs talk about using the .forward file, but nowhere is there an example of what one should look like. Sean -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null See /usr/doc/exim/filter.txt.gz It answered all of my questions. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 21 May 1999 21:23:53 -0400, Jim B wrote: Hi all. Is there a good POP3 and/or IMAP4 client (console or GUI, doesn't matter) that supports multiple accounts with easy switching between them... and that can filter based on the account concept rather than just on headers? No. There is not. Many people will point you to Netscape, mutt, procmail, fetchmail, blah-forking-blah. Do *NOT* believe them. Sure, it works, after you hack it all together and switch your thinking a total 180 degrees to something archaic and idiotic. Simple answer, no. It is a *BIG* bone I have picked with the free *nix community for years now. I'd much rather install VMWare just for a decent mutli-account mail client than ANY suggestion they *think* is viable. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0YZqHpf7K2LbpnFEQK56gCgxaYedbVKyDNbYkyYmNPwkE7qKKoAoIio Yr3vXnVa+tNXZSE7kjmiOOCD =OLHi -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
On 1999-05-21 19:42, Steve Lamb wrote: No. There is not. Many people will point you to Netscape, mutt, procmail, fetchmail, blah-forking-blah. Do *NOT* believe them. Sure, it works, after you hack it all together and switch your thinking a total 180 degrees to something archaic and idiotic. Simple answer, no. It is a *BIG* bone I have picked with the free *nix community for years now. I'd much rather install VMWare just for a decent mutli-account mail client than ANY suggestion they *think* is viable. So, if you have known about this problem for years, where is your solution? Show me the code! /Allan -- Allan M. Wind Phone: 781.938.5272 (home) 687 Main Street, 2nd Floor Fax:781.938.6641 (fax/modem) Woburn, MA 01801Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home)
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:55:46 -0400, Allan M. Wind wrote: So, if you have known about this problem for years, where is your solution? Show me the code! This is the other bone I have to pick. NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER AND CAN CODE. IT IS NOT, AND SHOULD NOT, BE A REQUISITE FOR USING THIS PARTICULAR OS PRODUCTIVELY. I get tired of people asking me for the code. Pretentious, rude, arrogant and utterly annoying. If I could code worth a damn, do you think I'd be on the Software Bazaar offering $35 for the first person to put *color* into joe? :P - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0YekXpf7K2LbpnFEQId2gCeMltUNCg+t6mQMqiDAgihgrMB8TwAoJ9V evjyAft/Vkh1JCFyyKYVjBg/ =TFx2 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
On Fri, 21 May 1999, Steve Lamb wrote: I get tired of people asking me for the code. Pretentious, rude, arrogant and utterly annoying. If I could code worth a damn, do you think I'd be on the Software Bazaar offering $35 for the first person to put *color* into joe? :P Pretentious, rude, arrogant, and utterly annoying? That sounds like your first response! If you don't know how to code, fine. But saying Do *NOT* believe them about the people who do know how and will help? If you do that often, it's no wonder so many ask you to show them the code! It's perfectly fine if you don't code. But consider showing a little respect then to those who do, instead of insulting them for not having written something that will do exactly what you want with no thought on your part.
Re: mail clients
On 1999-05-21 20:03, Steve Lamb wrote: On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:55:46 -0400, Allan M. Wind wrote: So, if you have known about this problem for years, where is your solution? Show me the code! This is the other bone I have to pick. NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER AND CAN CODE. IT IS NOT, AND SHOULD NOT, BE A REQUISITE FOR USING THIS PARTICULAR OS PRODUCTIVELY. I get tired of people asking me for the code. Pretentious, rude, arrogant and utterly annoying. If I could code worth a damn, do you think I'd be on the Software Bazaar offering $35 for the first person to put *color* into joe? :P It's probably better that way, anyways. /Allan -- Allan M. Wind Phone: 781.938.5272 (home) 687 Main Street, 2nd Floor Fax:781.938.6641 (fax/modem) Woburn, MA 01801Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home)
Re: mail clients
While people are complaining about this... they have overlooked one email client that does that job as I have been using at work. It is called XFMail. It is full featured email client written like 3 years back and it got rules filtering system so you can set it any which way you want. Dunno if there is a deb package for it but you can complie it yourself and install it. I have been using it for nearly a year and have no complaint about it. Although.. it would be nice if they updated it to GTK Style..but Balsa Mail and few others are getting to that point soon. Check it out. You like it. As for rest of you.. chill out. :) On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:55:46 -0400, Allan M. Wind wrote: So, if you have known about this problem for years, where is your solution? Show me the code! This is the other bone I have to pick. NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER AND CAN CODE. IT IS NOT, AND SHOULD NOT, BE A REQUISITE FOR USING THIS PARTICULAR OS PRODUCTIVELY. I get tired of people asking me for the code. Pretentious, rude, arrogant and utterly annoying. If I could code worth a damn, do you think I'd be on the Software Bazaar offering $35 for the first person to put *color* into joe? :P It's probably better that way, anyways. /Allan -- Allan M. Wind Phone: 781.938.5272 (home) 687 Main Street, 2nd Floor Fax: 781.938.6641 (fax/modem) Woburn, MA 01801 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Reply-to... Reply-to... ==BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE== From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Debian Developers debian-devel@lists.debian.org Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:46:01 -0700 Subject: Re: mail clients On Sat, 22 May 1999 00:30:29 -0400, Russell Rademacher wrote: While people are complaining about this... they have overlooked one email client that does that job as I have been using at work. It is called XFMail. It is full featured email client written like 3 years back and it got rules filtering system so you can set it any which way you want. XFMail does not handle multiple accounts correctly. It sends everything out as a single account, clumps everything together in a single account. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ===END FORWARDED MESSAGE=== - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0Y3B3pf7K2LbpnFEQIuEACbBQqWFIGz6F5+kvlpG9yg40oYPb8An1TE Rsun+G4mttEPjjy5Gk6WhVVM =ZTsm -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Reply to Reply-to... ==BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE== From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Debian Developers debian-devel@lists.debian.org Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:47:28 -0700 Subject: Re: mail clients On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:41:38 -0500 (CDT), Brad wrote: Pretentious, rude, arrogant, and utterly annoying? That sounds like your first response! If you don't know how to code, fine. But saying Do *NOT* believe them about the people who do know how and will help? If you do that often, it's no wonder so many ask you to show them the code! You would not understand how many times I see that question answered and how many times people will answer Oh, mutt/fetchmail/procmail works fine. It does not do what they are asking for, so why even reply? It's perfectly fine if you don't code. But consider showing a little respect then to those who do, instead of insulting them for not having written something that will do exactly what you want with no thought on your part. I do show respect to those that do. More often than not, though, the people who do code aren't the ones I'm arguing with day in and day out. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ===END FORWARDED MESSAGE=== - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0Y3bXpf7K2LbpnFEQJc7wCfYM5Q+SdiL5Rwyr/WhfCPJdQJ/FwAoOP6 75nBFaEBzy7Bl0u6PHKx6GZG =u7wO -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: mail clients
On 22-May-99 George Bonser wrote: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Russell Rademacher wrote: Dunno if there is a deb package for it but you can complie it yourself and install it. I have been using it for nearly a year and have no complaint about it. Although.. it would be nice if they updated it to GTK Style..but Balsa Mail and few others are getting to that point soon. xfmail was indeed a Debian package last time I checked. I use it at work. Multiple pop3 accounts, supports IMAP, rules, folders, multiple address books. It is a great program. I do not think it is currently under active development though. I have the deb package installed but I also don't believe it is under active development. I downloaded a new client Mahogany Mail, which reminds me of Eudora. -- Andrew
Re: mail clients
On 22-May-99 George Bonser wrote: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Pollywog wrote: I have the deb package installed but I also don't believe it is under active development. I downloaded a new client Mahogany Mail, which reminds me of Eudora. Where did you get it. Linuxberg (TUCOWS for Linux) is where I found out about it, and the download is at: http://www.phy.hw.ac.uk/~karsten/Mahogany/index.html
Re: mail clients
On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:23:53PM -0400, Jim B wrote: Hi all. Is there a good POP3 and/or IMAP4 client (console or GUI, doesn't matter) that supports multiple accounts with easy switching between them... and that can filter based on the account concept rather than just on headers? If I'm not making sense, I'm looking for something for Linux that can do what MS Outlook Express can do. Here's an example: One account is username joe and another account is username tom. Someone sends to joe and the mail is filtered into his mailbox... meanwhile, tom's mail is filtered into his mailbox. BUT, if someone BCCs joe, his username will not appear in the headers... therefore, header-based filtering will be useless. The client needs to be able to filter the mail into the joe mailbox despite the fact that his address is not in the headers. The idea is simple, it just needs to know From what account did I download this message? in order to be able to direct it appropriately, despite what may be in the headers of the message. Anyone know of such a client? Pine's roles don't cut it as a single login cannot access multiple e-mail accounts. Also, procmail doesn't come into the picture because the filtering rules must be client-based so that all these mail accounts can be accessed from a single terminal login session, rather than by logging out and then back into another session. Thanks!!! -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null Just my 2 cents: Mutt/fetchmail/exim works fine for me, with 2 accounts. Contrary to popular belief, it really isn't that hard to set up. My two email addresses are [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] is my primary one. I put this in my ~/.forward -- CUT HERE -- # Exim filter (required) if $h_To: contains [EMAIL PROTECTED] then save $home/Mail/mschess else save $home/Mail/inbox $endif -- END CUT -- Then, I put this in my ~/.muttrc (copy the sample one from /usr/doc/mutt and use it as a base) -- CUT HERE -- my_hdr From: Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] # all messages sent when I am in the mschess folder have the right email address folder-hook =mschess my_hdr From: Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] # and all others have my normal address folder-hook !=mschess my_hdr From: Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- END CUT -- Finally, I put this in my .fetchmailrc -- CUT HERE -- defaults fetchall expunge 500 poll pop-server protocol POP3: user smpitts pass my_password poll mail112.pair.com protocol POP3: user mschess pass my_other_password -- END CUT -- I migrated from Windows and Outlook Express and have found that this Linux system offers me several advantages: * I can send mail with a From address other than [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I couldn't get Outlook Express to do that for me) * I have folders that delete messages other than two weeks automatically, like my mailing lists folders * I can filter on ANY header in an email message. (Outlook Express can't filter on the Resent-Sender header that the debian lists use One of the hardest things for me was setting up email (that and finding a X server for my i740 card), but, once set up, it has been well worth it. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:03:45PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:55:46 -0400, Allan M. Wind wrote: So, if you have known about this problem for years, where is your solution? Show me the code! This is the other bone I have to pick. NOT EVERYONE IS A PROGRAMMER AND CAN CODE. IT IS NOT, AND SHOULD NOT, BE A REQUISITE FOR USING THIS PARTICULAR OS PRODUCTIVELY. I get tired of people asking me for the code. Pretentious, rude, arrogant and utterly annoying. If I could code worth a damn, do you think I'd be on the Software Bazaar offering $35 for the first person to put *color* into joe? :P - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0YekXpf7K2LbpnFEQId2gCeMltUNCg+t6mQMqiDAgihgrMB8TwAoJ9V evjyAft/Vkh1JCFyyKYVjBg/ =TFx2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null Unix-esque operating systems are _not_ designed for casual use. The more you understand about the way computers work, the more efficently you will be able to do things. I've recently started doing a little bit of programming, and its not really _that_ difficult. I'd think that you would want to learn about something that can save you time. That's the entire spirit of the open source movement; give you very flexible programs and not restrict you to a single program/platform/operating system/CPU. -- Stephen Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED] webmaster - http://www.mschess.org
Re: mail clients
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 22 May 1999 16:48:47 -0500, Stephen Pitts wrote: Unix-esque operating systems are _not_ designed for casual use. I understand that. The more you understand about the way computers work, the more efficently you will be able to do things. I know that as well. Must be why I've been a SysAdmin of one standing or another in various ISPs for the past 3+ years now. I've recently started doing a little bit of programming, and its not really _that_ difficult. I'd think that you would want to learn about something that can save you time. That's the entire spirit of the open source movement; give you very flexible programs and not restrict you to a single program/platform/operating system/CPU. Which is why I code in perl. I am a scripter. I can whip together a mean perl script to get stuff done. I'm well adept at the glue that keeps a system together. Programming, however, programming on the scale of an editor or an MUA, is beyond me. I accept that limitation. So I know how Unix works. I also know, however, from my perl experience, that there should *always* be more than one way to do it. In this case, there is not. As I outlined in my private mail to you Unix people insist that all mail coming into a physical account are the same virtual account. There is no real way to seperate them out easily without a conglomaration of filters, scripts and hacks. Hacks are good, I'll grant that, but when they are a *requirement* to get something that should be available as a standard *option* that many people want and need, maybe it is time someone took it upon themselves to take the hacks and make them easier, standard and installable. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.0 (C) 1997 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc iQA/AwUBN0cbEnpf7K2LbpnFEQKXFwCgu3jZ7npoCEhcvc4gUT9oemClNqQAoI5W 4BbLuxc71rRnPB+UvVFe4Kv6 =awzb -END PGP SIGNATURE-
