[jira] Commented: (COCOON-1592) Can't set cookie path etc. used by LocaleAction

[Andrew Stevens (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1592?page=comments#action_12368279 
] 

Andrew Stevens commented on COCOON-1592:


For what it's worth, Vincent's patch passes the unit tests in COCOON-1779...


> Can't set cookie path etc. used by LocaleAction
> ---
>
>  Key: COCOON-1592
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1592
>  Project: Cocoon
> Type: Bug
>   Components: * Cocoon Core
> Versions: 2.1.7
>  Environment: Operating System: All
> Platform: All
> Reporter: Andrew Stevens
> Assignee: Cocoon Developers Team
>  Attachments: locale-cookie-settings
>
> I have a sitemap which can return pages in various languages, using the
> LocaleAction to determine which one to return for any given request.  I want 
> to
> use true in the configuration of the
> LocaleAction.  However,
> org.apache.cocoon.i18n.I18nUtils.storeLocale(Map, String, String, boolean,
> boolean, boolean, boolean)
> uses
> response.addCookie(response.createCookie(attribute, locale));
> and
> org.apache.cocoon.environment.http.HttpResponse.createCookie(String, String)
> simply does
> return new HttpCookie(name, value);
> which means that although addCookie would set the the cookie 
> domain/path/expiry
> to whatever is on the cookie it is passed, in practise the LocaleAction will
> always use the javax.servlet.http.Cookie defaults.
> My site has a reasonably deep page hierarchy.  Unfortunately, by default the
> cookies are only returned at or below the level of the page which set them.  
> So,
> if I request e.g
> /site/a?locale=en
> followed by
> /site/a/b?locale=zh_CN
> to switch the site to the Chinese version, I end up with two locale cookies
> stored for the site at different levels, and a subsequent request for
> /site/c
> returns the English version of the page instead of Chinese as was selected 
> last
> :-(  In fact, if I select a different languages in several pages in various
> locations around the site, I can easily find myself browsing around and 
> getting
> a different language on every page I visit!
> The other limitation, of course, is that the default MaxAge value is -1, 
> forcing
> the browser to use a session cookie.  This means that if the user switches to 
> a
> non-default (as determined by the Accept-Language header) language, then 
> they'll
> have to do this again next time they come back to the site.  It would be nice 
> to
> be able to specify e.g. a one month expiry on the cookie instead.
> I'm guessing this shouldn't be too difficult to add since
> o.a.c.environment.http.HttpCookie already contains setters for these other
> fields; just (!) some extra optional configuration parameters for LocaleAction
> to go with store-in-cookie, overload the storeLocale method in I18Utils to 
> take
> the extra arguments and call the additional setters between the createCookie 
> and
> addCookie calls...?

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Re: Put Lucene generator on a diet?

[Andrew Stevens]

From: "Antonio Fiol Bonnín" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:26:28 +0100

2006/2/23, Andrew Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Looking through the Lucene block's search generator recently, it 
occurred to
> me that a fair amount of the code in there was redundant - all the stuff 
for
> breaking the hits up into pages, and only returning one page full of 
actual
> hits, seems to me to be duplicating the FilterTransformer.  In fact, in 
the

> site I've been working on most recently, we've been using just that
> configuration - set the hits/page count on the generator to -1 (so it
> returns everything) and add the filter transformer into the pipeline 
after

> it to do the paging.

I suppose that it's there because 99% of searches are paginated and
very few could be cached... Er... Is the search generator cacheable?


Good question, I've no idea.  I don't see why it shouldn't be, though.  If 
nothing has been updated in the index files (which ought to be determinable 
using org.apache.lucene.store.Directory's list() & fileModified(String) 
methods, or from the file system timestamps), then searching for the same 
query ought to produce the same results.  Moreover, depending on how the 
pipeline's set up, I'm guessing it ought to be possible to cache all the 
hits on the first request and re-use them if the user clicks though to the 
subsequent pages? (thus avoiding calling Lucene repeatedly with the same 
query)


> So I'm wondering, are there good reasons for the search generator to 
include

> the same functionality, or would there be any interest in a patch that
> strips it out?  The only possiblity that's occurred to me so far is 
perhaps
> it has this in there for performance?  The number of hits isn't likely 
to be
> an issue in my particular case (less than a few hundred pages in total 
on
> this site), but I guess it wouldn't be too good if Cocoon had to stream 
(and

> maybe cache) several million hits.  On the other hand, I can't imagine
> anyone would ever page through all of those anyway, so perhaps just 
having a

> configurable upper limit on the hit count would be sufficient?

I agree on the upper limit, if this reduces memory usage.

WRT removing the included pagination, I am not against doing so for
2.2, but definitely it should not be done for 2.1.X as it would break
backwards compatibility. Wouldn't it?


Absolutely.  Actually, I was only thinking of doing this for trunk (2.2), 
but neglected to say as much.  There's some other tweaks I've been 
considering for a 2.1.x patch (e.g. adding sitemap parameters that override 
some of the configuration settings), but they're all fully backwards 
compatible.



Andrew.

Put Lucene generator on a diet?

[Andrew Stevens]

Looking through the Lucene block's search generator recently, it occurred to 
me that a fair amount of the code in there was redundant - all the stuff for 
breaking the hits up into pages, and only returning one page full of actual 
hits, seems to me to be duplicating the FilterTransformer.  In fact, in the 
site I've been working on most recently, we've been using just that 
configuration - set the hits/page count on the generator to -1 (so it 
returns everything) and add the filter transformer into the pipeline after 
it to do the paging.


So I'm wondering, are there good reasons for the search generator to include 
the same functionality, or would there be any interest in a patch that 
strips it out?  The only possiblity that's occurred to me so far is perhaps 
it has this in there for performance?  The number of hits isn't likely to be 
an issue in my particular case (less than a few hundred pages in total on 
this site), but I guess it wouldn't be too good if Cocoon had to stream (and 
maybe cache) several million hits.  On the other hand, I can't imagine 
anyone would ever page through all of those anyway, so perhaps just having a 
configurable upper limit on the hit count would be sufficient?



Andrew.

[jira] Created: (COCOON-1779) [PATCH] JUnit tests for LocaleAction

[Andrew Stevens (JIRA)]

[PATCH] JUnit tests for LocaleAction


 Key: COCOON-1779
 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1779
 Project: Cocoon
Type: Test
  Components: * Cocoon Core  
Versions: 2.1.9-dev (current SVN)
Reporter: Andrew Stevens
Priority: Minor
 Attachments: LocaleActionTestCase.java, LocaleActionTestCase.xtest, 
mockrequest.diff

While looking into the patch on COCOON-1592, I figured some test cases for the 
existing action would be useful, to be sure that the patch didn't break any 
existing functionality.

Attached are the testcase and .xtest files, to go in 
src/test/org/apache/cocoon/acting.  Also, in order to test the case where the 
locale is read from the browser's Accept-Language or server default, I had to 
add a setLocale method to the MockRequest; the attached diff is for this.


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Re: Error message when checking out 2_1_X branch

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Antonio Gallardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 13:11:26 -0600

Andrew Stevens wrote:


From: Antonio Gallardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:37:59 -0600


...


cd check out directory and run 'svn up' again.



Nope, no difference.

C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X>svn up
svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default'
svn: REPORT of '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default': 400 Bad Request 
(http://svn.apache.org)


Hmm this might happens when the apache svn server is too busy or a 
problem in the network. A hint, is the connection loosing TCP packages?


Anyway, please keep trying the 'svn up' command. This command should 
sucessfully end.


I just did a svn up to confim and it is working to me.


I tried again at various times over the last couple of days, and kept 
getting the error.  So this morning I tried from home on a laptop, and it 
worked fine.  Doing a diff of the directories, I found that the files that 
were missing on my work machine were all in the jcr block, ajax block, 
captcha block, forms block, and validation block (everything but their conf 
directories).  And what is it that uses svn externals in the repository?  
The jcr block, ajax block, captcha block, forms block and validation block, 
except for their conf directories...


I don't believe it's a coincidence.  It looks like the externals are causing 
Bad Request errors when accessed through our office proxy server :-(  I'm 
guessing perhaps it's due to the use of https in the external configurations 
when I'm using http in the repository URL?

Oh well, at least I've now got the copy from the laptop to work with.


Andrew.

Re: Error message when checking out 2_1_X branch

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Antonio Gallardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:37:59 -0600

...

cd check out directory and run 'svn up' again.


Nope, no difference.

C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X>svn up
svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default'
svn: REPORT of '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default': 400 Bad Request 
(http://svn.apache.org)


And this doesn't instill much confidence that everything's there:

C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X>build
Buildfile: build.xml

init-tasks:
Created dir: C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X\tools\anttasks
Compiling 5 source files to 
C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X\tools\anttasks


BUILD FAILED
C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X\tools\targets\init-build.xml:152: 
C:\development\cocoon\BRANCH_2_1_X\lib\local not found.


Total time: 4 seconds

When I add an empty lib\local directory myself, the build gets further but 
then fails with a large assortment of "cannot find symbol" errors.



Andrew.

Error message when checking out 2_1_X branch

[Andrew Stevens]

Hi,

I'm afraid I'm still a Subversion newbie.  I tried checking out the 2_1_X 
branch following the instructions on the Cocoon web site; any idea what 
could cause the following message, or whether it's anything to worry about?  
I'm using subversion 1.3.0 on Windows XP.


C:\development\cocoon>svn co 
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/

...
ABRANCH_2_1_X\lib\core\commons-io-1.1.jar
ABRANCH_2_1_X\lib\core\ehcache-1.1.jar
svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default'
svn: REPORT of '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.apache.org)
C:\development\cocoon>svn co 
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/

svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default'
svn: REPORT of '/repos/asf/!svn/vcc/default': 400 Bad Request 
(http://svn.apache.org)


It successfully fetched plenty of files (the folder has > 130Mb in it).  How 
would I tell if there's anything missing?



Andrew.

portal urls and validation

[Andrew MacDonald]

Hello,

I'm trying to get our portal to validate according to
W3C standards. One of the main problems is the portal
urls that get created. These use the ampersand
character (&) instead of the entity for ampersand
(&) for appending parameters, which is incorrect.

I tried changing the character that gets appended in
DefaultLinkService (in the addEvent method), but then
our forms stopped working. The problem seemed to be
that the hidden input containing the
cocoon-portal-event did not get the & entity stripped
and so the result was .

Before making lots of modifications to the code, or
creating some new transformer to replace the &'s, I'd
like to know if anyone has suggestions on how to
resolve this problem.

Thanks,
Andrew

__
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: How to embed Cform in larger web site layout

[Andrew Timberlake]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the comments. So essentially I got this two options: 

1. Do a clean xhtml output of the cform pipeline 
2. Write a transformer that encapsulates the cform pipeline output.


The problem is that the cforms have their own custom transformer (xslt)
template which just outputs html. I wouldn't like to mess around with it in
order to keep things simple. 


Isn't there an easier way to do this? I mean working with html fragments is
one of the most basic web programming tasks. 


If there isn't how would I encapsulate my html output? A short code snippet
would help a lot. 


cheers,
Pete

  

Peter

The cform transformer outputs XML, not HTML. Although it may have the 
HTML,BODY etc elements, because it comes straight out of an XSLT 
process, it is XML.
You can therefore write a simple XSLT to strip the HTML and other 
elements you don't need to end with the fragment you need.


Andrew

Re: How to embed Cform in larger web site layout

[Andrew Timberlake]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello,

I alread posted this question in the user list and got no reply. So maybe
it's better to post the question here.

I modeled a  cocoon form (based on the registration example in the docs)
which I would like to incoperate into a classic web site layout (header,
footer etc).

When I have done all the cform transformations the form is already in html.







So it does already contain the  and  tags. Now I would like to
include the cform in a larger HTML document. But the problem is the cform is
already html so would have to write an XSLT Transformation which transforms
the HTML to another HTML document. This is clearly not a clean solution.  I
can't possible put the website layout into the cform template file this
would contradict the whole seperation on concerns concept.

So what is the right approach in this case?
 
Cheers,

Pete

  
Why not split the form generation into just generating an HTML fragment, 
add a transformer to wrap it in it's current HTML and then you have the 
fragment to insert into the other document


Andrew

Re: Update to the Servlet API

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Sylvain Wallez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:37:46 +0100

If we look at Tomcat, that means using Tomcat 3.3. Are there some people 
around using Cocoon 2.1.x on Tomcat 3.3?


Not Tomcat, but we've still got some sites running on iPlanet 6.0, which 
IIRC is Servlet 2.2 plus only some of the 2.3 bits (filters are in, but I 
don't know about listeners).  On the other hand, if we needed to upgrade the 
Cocoon version they're using for any reason we'd probably take the 
opportunity to also upgrade the platform they're running on.


To be frank, JDK 1.3 compatibility is more important to us than Servlet 2.2 
as even our current development has to deploy to Websphere 5.0 and JDK 1.4 
support only came in with WS 5.1.



Andrew.

Amsterdam stammtisch?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi all,

There will be a fair number of cocoon folk kicking around Amsterdam  
over the next few weeks... is anyone interested in a meetup?



Andrew.

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Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
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Re: cforms demo for 2.1.9-dev broken....

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Antonio Gallardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:27:44 -0600

Antonio Gallardo wrote:

[snip]
http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/logs/cocoon-demos --> /Connection reset by 
peer

http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/daisy/ -->// Connection reset by peer/
/
Is this only my conection or anybody else can see the problem?


It's not just you.  I don't see "Connection reset by peer", though, I get a 
500 page instead.




500 Server Error

Server Error

The following error occurred:
[code=CANT_CONNECT] Could not connect because of networking problems. 
Contact your system administrator.



Please contact the administrator.




Andrew.

[jira] Commented: (COCOON-1639) [patch] NekoHTMLTransformer

[Andrew Stevens (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1639?page=comments#action_12363063 
] 

Andrew Stevens commented on COCOON-1639:


Oh yeah, one other thing that occurred to me earlier.

You say you swapped the html transformer for nekohtml in the samples.  A recent 
message on the mailing list pointed out that JTidy & NekoHTML differ in their 
namespace handling (one of them produces xhtml namespaced elements); that being 
so, you might need to adjust whatever follows the transformer in the sample's 
pipeline accordingly?


> [patch] NekoHTMLTransformer
> ---
>
>  Key: COCOON-1639
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1639
>  Project: Cocoon
> Type: Improvement
>   Components: Blocks: HTML
> Versions: 2.1.8
>  Environment: Operating System: All
> Platform: All
> Reporter: Andrew Stevens
> Assignee: Cocoon Developers Team
> Priority: Minor
>  Attachments: NekoHTMLTransformer.java, cocoon.log, htmlblock.diff, 
> neko.properties
>
> The html block contains HTMLGenerator, HTMLTransformer, NekoHTMLGenerator 
> and...
> hey, where's the NekoHTMLTransformer?
> So, just to complete the set, here's one I prepared earlier :-)
> I've also included an (empty) neko.properties configuration file, and updated
> the neko generator's setup bits to allow for setting parser features as well 
> as
> properties.

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[jira] Commented: (COCOON-1639) [patch] NekoHTMLTransformer

[Andrew Stevens (JIRA)]

[ 
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1639?page=comments#action_12363060 
] 

Andrew Stevens commented on COCOON-1639:


>1) In src/blocks/html/samples/sitemap.xmap, I replaced in pipeline 
>HTMLTransformer/parsed.xml the 
>"html" transformer with "nekohtml", but I cannot manage to make it run, see 
>Cocoon Samples at 
>/samples/blocks/html/HTMLTransformer/parsed.xml

Did you change the neko.properties at all to uncomment anything?  Judging by 
your stack trace, the malformed URL seems to be thrown somewhere internal to 
Neko when it tries to parse its configuration (which I set from the 
neko.properties file).  The bit about the protocol being missing suggests to me 
that Neko creates URLs from the properties' keys (which are mostly of the form 
http://cyberneko.org/html/... ) and has encountered an entry with a non-URL 
string as the key.  Since I iterate over every entry in the property file's 
keyset and don't validate them, I'm guessing this might be caused if the file 
contained a plain text line that wasn't a comment?  It's a pity the URL 
constructor doesn't include the details of the string that it doesn't like in 
the exception message :-(

>2) I notice some overlap (in other words copy/paste) between the two 
>transformers. Can you try to 
>factorize the common code, especially the configure() and setup() method?

If I remember rightly (it's some time since I even looked at this), there's 
probably no more copy/paste than already exists between the JTidy and Neko 
based generators.  I can't remember now which way round I did it, but to get 
the neko transformer I either started with the neko generator and a diff of the 
JTidy generator/transformer, or the JTidy transformer and a diff of the 
JTidy/Neko generators.  Mix well, and bake in a medium hot oven for two hours 
:-)


> [patch] NekoHTMLTransformer
> ---
>
>  Key: COCOON-1639
>  URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1639
>  Project: Cocoon
> Type: Improvement
>   Components: Blocks: HTML
> Versions: 2.1.8
>  Environment: Operating System: All
> Platform: All
> Reporter: Andrew Stevens
> Assignee: Cocoon Developers Team
> Priority: Minor
>  Attachments: NekoHTMLTransformer.java, cocoon.log, htmlblock.diff, 
> neko.properties
>
> The html block contains HTMLGenerator, HTMLTransformer, NekoHTMLGenerator 
> and...
> hey, where's the NekoHTMLTransformer?
> So, just to complete the set, here's one I prepared earlier :-)
> I've also included an (empty) neko.properties configuration file, and updated
> the neko generator's setup bits to allow for setting parser features as well 
> as
> properties.

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Re: [VOTE] Stable CForms

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 13 Jan 2006, at 16:32, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:

We need official vote to mark CForms stable, so let's start it.  
Please vote to mark CForms as stable, to be included in imminent  
2.1.9 release:


 [ ] +1, Let's do it!
 [ ]  0, What is CForms?
 [ ] -1, It's not stable, because...


+1


Andrew.

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RE: (Re)Licensing question

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Helma van der Linden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:31:25 +0100

Guys,

I usually keep away from licensing issues, but this time I'd like to know 
if it is done correctly. I'm looking at a project that is made up of 
several other open source projects, cocoon is one of them, another 
(sub)project is licensed under BSD.


This project is licensed under GPL. It doesn't say that only their part is 
GPL and others are licensed differently. Looks like they included the 
entire Cocoon source tree with licensing files for all external jars used 
and they also left in the ASF license headers in the various files.


Is this correct?


Given that GNU [1] list the Apache licenses as "GPL-Incompatible, Free 
Software Licenses", I've always interpreted that to mean that you can't link 
to (i.e. make use of) Apache-licensed libraries (jars) in a project that 
you're releasing under the GPL.  They don't appear to have an equivalent 
list for LGPL compatibility, unfortunately.
I do recall that previous discussions on this list have stated that 
Apache-hosted projects aren't allowed to [L]GPL libraries in their CVS 
repositories.


If I've got this all backwards, someone please let me know; I've a project 
of my own [2] that I would have licensed under GPL if not for the fact that 
I made use of libraries that were released under Apache and BSD licenses.  
Instead I went for LGPL on the grounds that I can find a lot of other LGPL'd 
projects that use the same libraries, so it looks like that's okay...



Andrew.

[1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses
[2] http://pseudoq.sourceforge.net/

Re: [vote] Jean-Baptiste Quenot as new Cocoon committer (was Re: Problem with CachingPointProcessingPipeline)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 22 Dec 2005, at 13:42, Andrew Savory wrote:


Please cast your votes!


Congratulations Jean-Baptiste, you are elected with 19 +1s

Welcome aboard!


Andrew.

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Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
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[vote] Jean-Baptiste Quenot as new Cocoon committer (was Re: Problem with CachingPointProcessingPipeline)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 20 Dec 2005, at 15:56, Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote:


See patch attached.

WDYT?


I think you should become a committer, so you can work on these  
things without patches :-)


Everyone: Jean-Baptiste is becoming more and more active on the dev  
list, and has been diligently filing bugs and patches for the last  
few months. The first post about his activity is from July, 2004 [1].  
He seems to have a good grasp of the guts of Cocoon. I think it's  
time for him to become a committer.


[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?a=10893038224&r=3&w=2

Please cast your votes!

Here's mine: +1


Thanks,

Andrew.

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Re: Roadmap, Vision and everything

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 14 Dec 2005, at 17:34, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


And I think, for that we really need opinions from the users because
they know best what they don't like about Cocoon and what makes it  
hard

to use it. So I suggest (I think someone else suggested this some time
ago) to make a user poll. We could simply but a form somewhere where
users can anonymously enter some feedback into and we can evaluate the
responses and perhaps we get some more ideas on what we can do.  
Perhaps

we get some flames or spam but we can simply filter that out.


Ok, I'd be willing to set up a poll. But before I randomly ask for  
feedback, do we want to focus it a little more, ask more targeted  
questions?


Some ideas of open-ended questions ...

- Have you built any Cocoon sites? (If so, how many?)
- What do you like about Cocoon?
- What do you dislike about Cocoon?
- What would you like to see improved?
- What do you think Cocoon gets right?
- What do you think is the most important feature missing from Cocoon?

 any other suggestions?


Andrew.

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Re: [Poll] We need to align on one point (was Re: [Vision] Knowing When We are Done)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 7 Dec 2005, at 23:26, Thomas Lutz wrote:

Second argument: It was hard to explain, why I kicked struts out,  
and used cocoon instead. And it was even harder to explain that  
there is JavaScript in the server part. Managers who buy oracle  
don't like to hear things like this...


To provide a counterpoint to this - we spoke with one large  
organisation that was really excited by being able to use JavaScript  
rather than Java, since it lowered the barrier to entry for some of  
their less-skilled developers and meant more people were able to work  
on the project.


On 7 Dec 2005, at 14:23, Berin Loritsch wrote:


What's your preference for the vision?


[ ] All web apps written in JavaScript
[ ] All web apps written in pure Java
[X] Mix and match (not as simple, but is status quo with today)


Andrew.

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Re: [RT][long] Cocoon 3.0: the necessary mutation

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 2 Dec 2005, at 17:59, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

My impression is that with all these changes, Cocoon will be sexy  
again. Add a bit of runtime analysis of databases and automatic  
generation of CForms to the picture, and you have something that  
has the same productivity as RoR, but in a J2EE environment.


This is the only bit I have a problem with so far ;-)

We need to do -far- more than your technical outline if we are to  
compete with the likes of RoR. We need to focus on the user experience:


* explain -why- you'd use Cocoon (i.e. more detailed user requirement  
descriptions of why you'd add the new features you outline would be a  
massive step forward). A good friend of mine is constantly saying "I  
don't understand why people would use Cocoon, I don't understand the  
use-case for it". Maybe the framework's got too bloated and  
obfuscated for people to understand the need for it?


* we need to make it easier to get up and running (I'm talking about  
packaged distributions that run "out of the box" and Cocoon project  
archetypes in m2). I'd also like to give a massive +1 to Carsten's  
comments about needing tools, though I'd say there's no harm in  
adding some magic in there as well for the people that don't want to  
use the tools just yet.


* dare I say it, we need to make Cocoon not just sexy but also -fun-.


Andrew.

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Re: AW: Core Documentation

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Ralph Goers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:03:02 -0800



Stefan Pietschmann wrote:



The elements in the pipeline shall have attributes like







I don't believe you can do that.  Instead you need to either do:


 
src="com.whatever.MyTransformer">

  someID

 


Then implement the configurable interface and int the configure method do 
config.getChild("conf").getValue() to get the value.


or in your pipeline


 


Then implement Parameterizable. The conf parameter will be passed to the 
parameterize method.


Or finally in your pipeline do:


 



I think you'll find that should be map:transform, not map:transformer...


Andrew.



In this case the conf parameter will be passed in the Parameters object to 
the transformer's setup method.


HTH

Ralph

Re: [Vote] Releasing 2.1.8 tomorrow

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 8 Nov 2005, at 10:54, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


Please cast your votes for releasing 2.1.8 tomorrow, 8th of November.


+1


Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Naming rule for HTML IDs generated by CForms

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,


[+1] "foo.bar:input"  (colon, not CSS-friendly because of IE)

(do people still use IE? ;-)


Andrew.

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Re: [Vote] Releasing 2.1.8

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 27 Oct 2005, at 15:53, Upayavira wrote:


Well, are you saying that this is a critical bug?

As far as I am concerned, you can vote -1 on a release because  
something
is critical to the project, but not because it is inconvenient to  
you :-)


Well, a component of Cocoon (SQL Transformer) no longer works ... so  
yes, I'd say it's a critical bug. Anyone upgrading to 2.1.8 that uses  
SQL Transformer may find their sites no longer work.


Thanks for adding the block to Jira, Bertrand. I should have done  
that when I first put it in Bugzilla I guess.



Andrew.

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Re: [Vote] Releasing 2.1.8

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 27 Oct 2005, at 07:35, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


So please cast your votes for
[ ] Release tomorrow, 27th of October
[ ] Release next friday, 4th of November


-1 for tomorrow: just got bitten again by this bug: http:// 
issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-1594


We need time to fix it. Sorry.

+1 for Friday 4th assuming docs are ready and no other major bugs.


Andrew.

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RE: SQL and CTemplate (was Re: [RT] Rules for adding blocks and functionality?)

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Upayavira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:44:23 +0100

Whilst I'm not going to be the person implementing it, having seen the
distinction made between SELECT and UPDATE in ESQL/SQLTransformer


That was one of the things that bugged me about the SQLTransformer too, that 
and the fact it didn't handle our Sybase-based stored procs (some of which 
returned a few update counts first from selecting into temporary tables and 
variables, and only then the result set).  Besides which, it's perfectly 
possible for a stored proc to return more than one result set, and that 
wasn't catered for either, nor were queries like "SET ROWCOUNT 3; SELECT foo 
FROM bar ORDER BY bub DESC; SET ROWCOUNT 0".


So, I modified the transformer to loop over all the returned results.  In 
the process I was able to remove the select/update distinction completely - 
an update is simply a query that returns an update count in its rowset 
instead of a bunch of rows (getNextResult can tell the difference without 
needing to guess it from the  contents).  If there's multiple results 
then you get multiple rowsets, finally followed by any output parameters if 
isstoredprocedure="true" (since the JDBC spec says you should process all 
results before accessing those anyway).


Another improvement was decent handling of  (allowing the 
value to be specified in the element body as well as an attribute so you can 
combine it with sql:substitute-value to use a parameter passed from the 
sitemap instead of only static values, which is much more useful).


If the transformer in CVS hasn't changed too much since I adapted it, I 
could upload a patch if people think it's worthwhile?



The worst thing about ESQL/SQLTransformer in my view is the embedded
SQL. Horrible.


Nobody said it has to come from a static file, though.  You can always 
generate the query dynamically from an XML file representing your DB schema 
and a suitable XSL transform to convert it into the SQL query...



Andrew.

Re: [RT] Rules for adding blocks and functionality?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 23 Oct 2005, at 19:20, Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:

Just because of its importance, you agree that it is important  
don't you ;) we should follow our usual and well proven development  
patterns which involves community involvement.


FWIW, Sylvain showed quite a few people an example of this  
functionality at the hackathon, and I think we all said "ooh, please  
commit it ASAP!" at the time.


So there was some community involvement (though I know there's no  
substitute for doing it on the list, where the whole community can see).



And what is much worse: we never remove anything.

So, taking DB-handling as an example: in the databases block we  
have ESQL, modular DB modules and actions and the SQLTransformer,  
three different approaches to do the same thing, all of them  
considered to be obsolete. Furthermore we have the OJB block that  
is still another and maybe better way of handling DBs, and now we  
have your new stuff.


... which makes me think that actually we should have an article  
explaining the differences between them all, and why you might use  
each block in a given context.



* New kind of functionality should (in general) go to new blocks.
* New blocks should go through some incubation process, starting in  
the whiteboard and needing a small community and a vote to get out  
from there.


Agreed to both of these.

* We really need to get rid of obsolete stuff. Must really every  
single block go to 2.2? Are there some oneman shows that better  
could be returned to their creator and driven on source forge or  
Cocoon-dev?


Hmm. I'm not convinced of this. The problem is that we can't  
anticipate which blocks our users want, they may have perfectly valid  
reasons for using e.g. the SQL Transformer (even if we wished they  
didn't). I don't know how we can remove historical functionality  
without upsetting -someone-. I'm not sure how this can be solved ...



Andrew.

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Re: [Vote] Doc format for release

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 17 Oct 2005, at 10:52, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

It seems to me that we have three choices (please correct me if I'm  
wrong):


1) a PDF of the whole doc
2) a set of HTML files
3) Both

So please vote on what we should use - I think the majority simply  
wins.


2) alone gets my +1.


Andrew.

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Re: [Vote] Status file per block

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 16 Oct 2005, at 16:17, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

I think it's time to split up the status.xml file and create a file  
for each block.


So please cast your votes.


+1


Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] new committer: Max Pfingsthorn

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 11 Oct 2005, at 07:28, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:


So I have the pleasure of proposing Max as our new committer!


A big +1. Welcome Max!


Andrew.

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Re: REQ Fixing really old bugs

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Vadim Gritsenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:36:28 -0400

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

...

  * 22732: Cocoon Servlet can't be included

Either we provide a way to include output of Cocoon, or update 
documentation to state that such usage is not supported at all.


Since you brought that one up, I might add that I've done a modified 
CocoonServlet & request wrapper, which handles c:import of Cocoon-generated 
content.  Guess I should get my act together and upload a patch file...



Andrew.

Re: [GT2005] Cocoon GetTogether 2005 is over... But wait! There's more!

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 10 Oct 2005, at 10:52, Arje Cahn wrote:

Many thanks to all speakers that have made the program friday so  
nice.. And of course, all the attendees that were there at the  
Hackathon days, the dinners and the presentation day. I had fun.


And a big thank you to Arjé and everyone at Hippo for such superb  
organisation and all the hard work you put in - it was appreciated!


I hope you've all recovered now ;-)


Andrew.

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Re: Releasing 2.1.8

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 10 Oct 2005, at 08:49, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


Is there anything else?


This one effectively means SQL Transformer is unusable in combination  
with sitemap parameters: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/ 
show_bug.cgi?id=36573


I didn't get to fix it at the hackathon :-(


Andrew.

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Re: Binaries for next releases

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 10 Oct 2005, at 08:43, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


As soon as we have 2.2 we definitly want that users start with 2.2 and
not with 2.1.x anymore. So having a binary release only for 2.2 might
help with this as well :)


Depends when we think 2.2 might be released (I mean full release, not  
milestone release).


If we're talking about maybe a month, then I suppose it's not a problem.

If we're talking about 6 months - well, do we really want to give a  
substandard user experience for that long?



Andrew.

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Re: [SHRT] Cocoon on Rails Application Component Kernel (CRACK)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 10 Oct 2005, at 06:48, Antonio Gallardo wrote:

IMHO, there is no a correct way to go from the DB table to the  
form. More often than we though a DB table cannot be mapped to a  
form due the defined interface.


What do you mean by "the defined interface"?


Tipical use case: User interface. Said the user table must have 5  
columns. Of them, login and password, between others. The initial  
create user form show all 5 columns. While the change password show  
only 2 of them + the verification password field. This is a typical  
defined interface. Mapping both user forms to different tables in  
this case is not too smart, right? As this sample, we can find a  
lot of similar samples in an db enabled application.


The aim is not to have the perfect form for every use-case, but  
rather to get 80% of the forms right, and make it easy to customise  
the rest.


So in your use case, we'd initially generate a form with 5 fields,  
but the user is then free to modify the model, template, and binding  
to add or remove fields.



Andrew.

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Binaries for next releases

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

As some of you may have heard at the GetTogether, it takes quite some  
time for a clean install of Cocoon to build on my poor powerbook. I  
think we're also making life overly complicated for people just  
starting  out with Cocoon. People are lazy; having to take the extra  
build step with Cocoon in order to even see something running seems  
like a lot of work. If we want to increase adoption, we have to  
reduce barriers to entry.


So for the 2.1.8 release and future 2.2 releases I think we should  
bring back the binaries.


WDYT?


Andrew.

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Re: [SHRT] Cocoon on Rails Application Component Kernel (CRACK)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi Berin,

On 7 Oct 2005, at 15:09, Berin Loritsch wrote:

Here's the deal: Cocoon is a very powerful publishing framework  
adapted to do web applications, and Ruby on Rails is a very  
empowering web application framework that can be adapted for a  
number of purposes.  There are two very different mindsets behind  
the two frameworks--and I believe we can leverage the very potent  
lessons learned from Rails for the Cocoon framework.


I couldn't agree more. In fact, I spoke about this at the GT this  
morning :-)


The full slides with notes, videos etc will be available via the GT  
web site shortly, but until then you can see the basics at http:// 
www.luminas.co.uk/andrew/raccoon.pdf


Your SHRT goes into rather more technical detail than I managed.

In all seriousness, the biggest lesson from the Ruby on Rails  
project that Cocoon can learn is the power of convention.  One of  
the biggest things that contributes to the high learning curve of  
Cocoon is the lack of convention.


Not just the lack of convention but also the lack of good sample apps  
(solved by Bertrand with the bricks-cms) and of a decent generator of  
templates (temporarily done by raccoon but hopefully soon by m2  
archetypes).


This morning I asked if Cocoon is too complex for convention, or if  
we simply have a logistical problem - lack of time to define suitable  
conventions. It looks like you've given us a starting point!



Model
-
The Rails model is one of the most powerful aspects of the whole  
framework.  I'm not going to go into the whole ActiveModel  
architecture other than to say that the model lives in the app/ 
models/ directory and the class name is the singular form of the  
concept (i.e. LogEntry) and the backing database table is the  
plural form (i.e. LogEntries).  Using convention to map class  
methods to tables and records is a very powerful aspect that beats  
out anything else in the Java world.  It would be a project in and  
of itself to write a replacement for this piece--which is not  
something I would recommend for CRACK.


I got a little way down this path using XSLT and the SQLTransformer  
(crude but it worked). We can go a long way using JDBI (http:// 
jdbi.codehaus.org/) and DdlUtils (http://db.apache.org/ddlutils/).  
Hopefully Sylvain will be able to commit his JDBI flowscript wrapper  
as a start.



View

In the CRACK version matching the /login/index URL, we would look  
for (in this order) a .jx file, a .xml file, or a .xsp file that  
matches the name of the action "index".  More clearly, in that  
example CRACK would look for app/views/login/index.jx first, and  
then substitute the other extensions in case they are there.  The  
Rails view framework also allows fragments that can be embedded in  
other views, but this is good enough for now.


I think views are one of the areas where RoR is the weakest, and  
where we can make the most significant improvements - for example  
thinking in terms of a CRACK view being index.jx/xml coupled with an  
associated xslt by default.



Changes to Cocoon
-
In order to support something like this, we don't have to make  
fundamental changes to Cocoon.  In fact, all we have to do is  
provide an alternate Sitemap implementation that uses reflection to  
find the controller class and build the pipeline based on the view  
source, the layout location, etc.


Or a tool to one side of core Cocoon that provides these features,  
and can also generate the default layout etc?


What do you think?  Rosy picture?  BTW, I only used the name CRACK  
as an eye catcher--I'm not expecting the final product to be named  
that.


Raccoon has kind of a ring to it, no? ;-)


Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] snapshot "release" of the bricks-cms example app

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 6 Oct 2005, at 15:07, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

I'd like to  put a snapshot of the bricks-cms [1] example on our  
download servers, so that people can get it without requiring an  
SVN client.


+1


Andrew.

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Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Jorg Heymans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:06:17 +0200

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>

(snip)


You are trying to remedy the fact that many developers (not all of them)
don't look at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I say those developers need to change their
view/attitude towards user@ and realize that replying to a "HELP: No
pipeline matched blabla !!!" post benefits cocoon as much as (for
example) fleshing out the next gen container architecture.

Splitting up mailinglists works for other OS projects because either
1) they have a self sustaining user list with a lot of advanced users
willing to help out eg Spring forums
2) the developers *actively* help out on every post eg maven-users

A rough count shows that of the 200 threads in september, about 35 were
1-post threads ie remained unanswered.


If you want to reduce that count, I am still interested in hints on
- why I'm getting "Attempted to release a $Proxy20 but its handler could not 
be located." messages in my logs. [1]
- why the ComponentManager appears to be null in my transformers' 
(SitemapComponentTestCase subclass) unit tests but not my actions'. [2]


In my experience, it doesn't matter which list I ask for help on, it still 
gets ignored.  Or maybe it's just me.
Perhaps I should suggest dropping support for JDK 1.4, or migrating the 
entire architecture to be picocontainer-based instead of OSGi on the grounds 
that more people have heard of it.  Judging by recent traffic, that ought to 
send my mailbox over quota in next to no time :-)



Andrew.

[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-users&m=112170400821522&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-users&m=112601358928679&w=2

Re: [vote] Ross Gardler as a new Cocoon committer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 5 Oct 2005, at 09:43, Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:


I'd like to propose Ross Gardler as a Cocoon committer.


+1, welcome!


Andrew.

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[GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.


Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and  
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to  
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)



Andrew.

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Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 17:04, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:


I guess you are not aware of this

http://rx4rdf.liminalzone.org/Racoon


Heheh, no I wasn't. I also was unaware of Racoon the dutch rock band,  
or racoon the IKE (ISAKMP/Oakley) key management daemon, and  
apparently there's a small furry animal claiming rights to the name  
too (though it spells the name funny). Sheesh! ;-)


I'm not seriously proposing to continue development of 'rac(c)oon' as  
a third-party separately named tool; it's a nickname for some changes  
that I think we could make to cocoon itself, given enough support and  
momentum. So I think all the other owners of racoonlike names can  
rest easy.


Thanks for the headsup though,

Andrew.

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Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 13:18, Sylvain Wallez wrote:


Here's a sneak preview of the first 30 seconds, without sound:
http://www.luminas.co.uk/andrew/raccoon_first_30s.mov




Kewl! If it's based on the 2.2 branch, you may reduce startup time  
by adding JAVA_OPTIONS="-Dorg.apache.cocoon.core.LazyMode=true" in  
the launch script (BTW, should we make this the default?)


Ooh, I've not tried it with 2.2 but anything that gives us a speed  
edge will be a bonus - Raccoon lags ~ 8 seconds behind the RoR  
equivalent for the initial step, currently. Thanks for the tip!



Andrew.

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Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 12:09, Jorg Heymans wrote:



Lets do a video like Rails [2], a picture says more than a thousand
words, a video more than a thousand pictures! WDOT? Can something like
this put us to shame or work in our advantage?



*sob* Stop it! Stop it! You're all describing my GT presentation!

Here's a sneak preview of the first 30 seconds, without sound:
http://www.luminas.co.uk/andrew/raccoon_first_30s.mov

;-)


Andrew, frantically working on the other 14m30s

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Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

I think Stefano raises some interesting issues, but there's a flaw in  
the premise: is everything we do in Cocoon targeted at a browser- 
based client model? I don't think so. It discounts Cocoon as an  
integration framework, an XML-based service bus (urgh, buzzword bingo  
time), and Cocoon as a solution for client platform independence.


That said, I do think there'll be massive challenges in working with  
the rich client world, when the "transform it all on the server side"  
model becomes less relevant. Stefano's absolutely right about the  
challenges these rich clients bring to server-side frameworks. And I  
surely agree that Cocoon itself has complexity issues, which brings  
us to Tony's points...


On 1 Oct 2005, at 00:48, Tony Collen wrote:

1.  (Like Berin) I am admittedly infatuated with Rails.  This may  
be the infatuation speaking, but the "Rails doesn't scale" smells  
like FUD to me.


Not so much FUD as much as a practical statement - I'm sure it will  
scale, but as with every new framework, the Rails folk need to put  
some work in to make it handle the complex stuff just as well as it  
currently handles the simple stuff. The benefit of beginning from a  
simple premise ("write less code", "convention over configuration")  
is you get to start with no preconceptions on how to do things, and  
make life easier for the developer. The downside is you then need to  
meet developer expectations consistently - and keep things simple all  
the way up the stack. IMHO, Rails is not quite there yet.


3. More functionality is moving to the browser, but the apps will  
still reside on servers. I can't see that moving away.  I always  
knew server-side XSLT was sort of a stopgap until browsers could do  
it reliably.


I think this may be true for display-based XSLT processing, but I  
think it misses out rather a lot of pre-display processing that goes  
on. I'm also not entirely convinced large companies will be happy  
about sending out their content and presentation as separate  
packages. My bet is server-side XSLT is here to stay, for quite some  
time.



- Simplify Cocoon.


Heheh. Someone should do a talk about this at the GetTogether. Oh,  
wait  ;-)


This is exactly the point I'm hoping to get across - helping our  
users with convention over configuration, less XML sit-ups, providing  
a clearer "best practice" and a way to hit the ground running right  
away.


What's the bare minimum we can get away with?   Not only  
functionality, but also actual amount of code?  Ugo's work with  
Spring and Butterfly probably is a good starting point.


I can't help with the internals of Cocoon (it's way over my head),  
but I hope I can provide a starting point for lowering the learning  
curve of Cocoon beginners. If I manage to get the code working, I'll  
drop it into the whiteboard alongside Bertrand's.


Tony, who feels like he dumped a lot of stuff from his brain  
because of Stefano's RT.



Andrew, who feels like with every passing day more of the ideas of  
his presentation crop up on the mailing lists before he's had a  
chance to present them ;-)

Re: [RT] Are svn externals a good idea?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 23 Sep 2005, at 10:48, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


I'm just wondering if svn externals are a good idea wrt to versioning.


One unfortunate side-effect of using svn externals is it's tricky to  
track down via viewcvs - eg http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon/ 
branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/src/blocks/forms/ has now disappeared, and it's  
not immediately apparent looking in http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/ 
cocoon/branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/src/blocks/ that forms is an external.


I don't quite know what the answer is (an update to viewcvs to make  
it indicate externals perhaps?), just raising it here in case anyone  
else gets confused ...



Andrew, off to read up on externals now.

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RE: Writing a transformer available

[Andrew Stevens]

Any chance someone could add a paragraph to this on "unit testing your new 
transformer"?  All I get from mine is "junit.framework.AssertionFailedError: 
Test for component manager", despite copying the .xtest configuration from 
existing tests in the cocoon source, and the mailing lists were 
disappointingly silent when I asked for some pointers :-(



Andrew.


From: Berin Loritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:28:09 -0400

http://cocoon.zones.apache.org/daisy/documentation/writing/sitemapcomponents/694.html

Really simple transformer example as most people aren't going to write 
their own transformers anyway.

Re: Serious bug in tree processor

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Carsten Ziegeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:58:14 +0200

Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
> Anybody know what the root issue is?
>
The type attribute of the pipeline element has not been evaluated
correctly. In this case the type attribute of the first pipeline element
has been used for all pipeline elements in a sitemap.

> Do we have a TestCase to catch the problem in case it is accidentally
> re-introduced?
I don't think so. The test case should have at least to pipeline
sections with different type attributes and should test if the correct
pipeline is used in each section.

Carsten


On the subject of test cases, can anyone help me with the problem I posted 
over on users@ a few days ago?  I'm trying to test a transformer, and copied 
the code & .xtest from the ones in Cocoon's sources, but for some reason it 
doesn't create the component manager.  I have other test cases for actions 
that are fine, but my transformer ones all refuse to run.  I've had 
absolutely no response on the other list, but perhaps there's someone more 
knowlegeable over here? :-)



Andrew.

Re: [GT2005] Capture Audio for Podcast?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 9 Sep 2005, at 00:08, Arje Cahn wrote:

I'd be happy to host the recordings, at least during the GT itself,  
although maybe afterwards it might be good to switch to an Apache  
mirrored environment (? not sure if that's possible).


It's not really possible to use the Apache mirrors for AV of the  
GetTogether - we asked infra last year and the response was pretty  
much "you really ought to find your own host for that sort of stuff".  
We're happy to provide a long-term host for it.



Andrew.

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Re: [vote] Arje Cahn as a new Cocoon committer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 8 Sep 2005, at 19:41, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

I'd like to be the voice of a general opinion among Cocoon  
developers that Arjé Cahn should be made a Cocoon committer.


Please cast your votes!


+1, of course :-)


Andrew.

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Re: [GSoC] status reports?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi Heh,

On 2 Sep 2005, at 07:51, Heh wrote:


Anyway I put my code at:

http://s91681504.onlinehome.us/gsoc/zooloon.tar.gz

Please download from there. I'll figure out what's wrong with svn
access tomorrow.


As Antonio points out, the best way of distributing your code is to  
add it to Cocoon's Bugzilla, as an attachment. This is the way  
everyone in the community without SVN access is encouraged to work  
with Cocoon, as it means the code is never lost (in case your server  
goes down with the thousands of Cocooners downloading it!), and that  
we get a reminder it is there from Bugzilla.


You can find Bugzilla at http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/ ... it  
would be a really good idea for you to use it.


Thanks,


Andrew.

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Re: Releasing 2.1.8, when?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 1 Sep 2005, at 09:06, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

But we can release sooner if required; I think the current state is  
very

stable.


Definitely +1 to release 2.1.8 ASAP.


I think from 2.1.8 we should simply release every two months. So
everyone (developers and users) have a fixed date. So this is a little
bit more of agile development as we are using fixed sprints :)
Of course if there are showstoppers we will make an exception.


Sounds good ... the problem we have currently with "ship it when it's  
ready" is we rarely agree on when it is ready ;-) The only thing I'm  
wondering about is if every two months isn't a little fast for the  
current rate of change in the 2.1* series?



Andrew.

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Re: 2.1.8 (Was: Re: JING Transformer...)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 31 Aug 2005, at 12:22, Pier Fumagalli wrote:

So, even if cforms are still unstable, frankly, 2.1.8 shouldn't be  
blocked by it at all...


Or am I the only one seeing it this way?


I'd agree ... doing a release before the GT and then one after with  
all the hackathon fixes and changed features makes it easier for  
people to manage what version they are using. The danger is that  
there's lots of stuff we want to do and test after the hackathon, and  
it ends up being next September and we have this same discussion.


Mind you, I don't have much time to help with the release, so judge  
my words accordingly ;-)



Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Switch to Maven NOW

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 17 Aug 2005, at 13:48, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:


So please cast your votes for switching to Maven2 NOW as
outlined/discussed in the proposal thread.


+1, assuming the concerns (which I share) about offline work  
dependency-handling are covered.


Thanks,

Andrew.

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Re: CoWarp (was Re: svn commit: r232855...)

[Andrew Stevens]

Although as a mere user my vote probably doesn't count, from my perspective 
I'm extremely grateful that Cocoon still supports 1.3 and hope that remains 
the case for the 2.1.x releases.  Our production servers are running 
Websphere 5.0.x, which only has JDK 1.3.1, and aren't likely to upgrade in 
the short term (a combination of internal bureaucracy and the amount of 
testing involved for all the other apps running on those servers).  So if 
2.1.8 drops support for 1.3, I'll probably have to stick at 2.1.7 for our 
team's app; either that or drop Cocoon altogether and migrate to the 
"company standard" (proprietary) framework, which I've managed to hold out 
against up till now ;-)


Besides, wouldn't something like that justify a bigger change in version 
number i.e. if you're going to drop it, do it in 2.2?  Also, when you do 
drop the 1.3 support, why not drop the servlet 2.2 support as well and start 
using standard HttpRequest/ReponseWrappers in the JSP block instead of your 
own version?  I'd have thought any app server that supports 1.4+ would also 
support servlet 2.3+.  Plus, I've already had to write a custom JSPEngine 
implementation because Websphere won't do includes if the request isn't the 
standard wrapper class...



Andrew.



From: Vadim Gritsenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org
To: dev@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: CoWarp (was Re: svn commit: r232855...)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:27:30 -0400

Antonio Gallardo wrote:
If ..., I will like to propose for the next cocoon 2.1.x release to set 
the monimal JVM requirement to 1.4.


Can I start a vote about moving to 1.4?


-1 for change of JVM requirement in the 2.1.8 release, which should be 
released ASAP anyway - it is delayed too much already.


+1 for the change in any release after 2.1.8.

Vadim

FW: LocaleAction and cookies

[Andrew Stevens]

Seeing as I got absolutely no response to this on the users list, I thought 
I'd try here before I open an enhancement request in Bugzilla ;-)




To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:36:00 +0100

Hi,

I'm using Cocoon 2.1.7 to generate a bilingual site (i.e. every page may be 
displayed in either English or Chinese, according to the users' 
preference).  I want the chosen language to be remembered between page 
requests, but there may not a session available (we had problems on a 
previous site when we hit the configured max sessions limit on the server, 
so we don't want the "brochureware" parts of the site to always create a 
session since they don't really need one).  Therefore, I've got the 
LocaleAction configured to store-in-cookie as well as store-in-session.


However, I've discovered that as I browse around the site's hierarchy it's 
creating multiple locale cookies, under every path I visit.  This means 
that if I go to /site/a, then /site/area/b, switch locales 
(/site/area/b?locale=zh_HK), then request /site/a again, it still displays 
in English rather than the Chinese I was expecting (as the en_GB cookie 
with the higher level path still exists).  By the time I've browsed all 
over the site, switching back and forth between the languages, it's 
anyone's guess which language any particular page will display :-(


Is there any way to specify a particular path for the locale cookie to use, 
so that I can set it to "/" and have it affect the whole site?  For that 
matter, I may want to change the domain it uses, or set an expiry time so 
that it's persistent between browser sessions.  Is there any way to do 
this?



Andrew.

Re: [VOTE] Jorg Heymans as new committer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 31 Jul 2005, at 07:18, Antonio Gallardo wrote:


Please cast your votes:


+1, welcome!


Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Give Heh Huang temporary and restricted commit privileges to our code repository

[Andrew Savory]

On 27 Jul 2005, at 05:40, Antonio Gallardo wrote:


Please cast your votes!


+1


Andrew.

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Re: [CForms] Stylesheets incompatible with Saxon 8

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 20 Jul 2005, at 15:25, Ugo Cei wrote:


I see three possibilities here:

1) we revert the change and whoever uses Saxon must be warned that  
they have to ""fix" stylesheets locally.


... not ideal.

2) we keep the change and we advise people to use a wrapper  
stylesheet that declares the parameter


... not ideal. I don't know how many people use individual  
stylesheets directly, but I suspect it's quite a few.



3) we solve the include/import issue once and for all


... there's never a simple solution is there? :-)

I'll take a look at the include/import issue and see if I can work  
out what's up.


Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: [CForms] Stylesheets incompatible with Saxon 8

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 12 Jul 2005, at 09:59, Ugo Cei wrote:

What I did locally is to remove the declaration from all the  
included files and move it to forms-samples-styling only. I did a  
quick tour of the forms samples (using Xalan) and they all seem to  
still work.


Unless there's some serious objection, I'm going to commit this fix  
soon. We can always revert, in any case.


Re: svn commit: r215954 - in /cocoon/branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/src/blocks/ 
forms: java/org/apache/cocoon/forms/resources/


-  resources

 ouch! :-(

This breaks any site that makes use of any of the individual cforms  
styling xslt on their own.


Can we revert this change until a better (or more backward- 
compatible) way of handling it is devised?


Or do we just accept that cforms is unstable, in which case we need  
to warn everyone that this has happened, and the likely errors they  
are going to get (javax.xml.transform.TransformerException: Could not  
find variable with the name of resources-uri).



Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Give Robert Graham temporary and restricted commit privileges to our code repository

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 18 Jul 2005, at 08:52, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

As you all know, Robert Graham is one of our Google Summer of Code  
(GSoC) students


Please cast your votes!


+1


Andrew.

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Re: DirectoryGenerator using abstract Source

[Andrew Stevens]

From: Gianugo Rabellino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:29:03 +0200

On 7/14/05, Daniel Fagerstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't think it is a good idea to deprecate things that have been
> arround in Cocoon from the very beginning and is part of about every
> book, tutorial and article that have been written about Cocoon.

I can clearly see your point. Being DG so much part of core Cocoon,
it's tough stuff to handle. However, it's also very clear how much TG
is more flexible: if you consider that a guy like Michi, a Cocoon and
Lenya committer, was unaware of its existence, you'll realize how
we're doing a very bad job in promoting our stuff,


If it was included in the user docs 
(http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/generators/generators.html) then that 
might help more people become aware of it...
I've noticed quite a few components which are included in the distribution 
but not mentioned in those docs.  I find that surprising since they look 
like they are (or could be) generated directly from the sources.


By the way, what does the repository block (which contains the 
TraversableGenerator) do anyway?  It's not mentioned in the list on the wiki 
at http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/BlockDescriptions



Andrew.

Re: DatabaseReader problem with 2.1.7, help needed (fwd)

[Andrew Franz]

Try Joerg's suggestion: i.e. Look at the actual exception

You can do this quickly & easily, outside Cocoon with JSTL/JSP as follows:


   startRow="0">SELECT * FROM mytable



   *(dump exception here)*


The rest is as below.

After that, I'm out of suggestions


Tuomo L wrote:

SQL Transformer works fine, so does ESQL and other stuff, only the 
DatabaseReader fails when reading and serializing a binary column. 
This is very bizarre. I've also tried putting the mime-type setting in 
the component configuration, sitemap-invocation, the "content-type" 
-parameter, "type-column", switched between JDK1.5/JDK1.4, 
Tomcat4/Tomcat5.5, Cocoon2.1.5/Cocoon2.1.7 and all different 
combinations of these. I also built the 2.1.7 from scratch as is, 
without modifications but the SQL-driver in web.xml and 
JDBC-configuration in cocoon.xconf to match SQL Server's needs. The 
upload/download -sample does the same thing, returning 0 bytes.


How could I debug this more?

-Tuomo

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Andrew Franz wrote:


I haven't used SQL server from C2.
All I can suggest is to keep on isolating the problem, e.g try the 
JDBC driver directly under Tomcat using JSP

e.g. try the following - put it under webapps/jsp-examples
(substitute driver & url accordingly, the following is for Oracle)

If it works, the problem is your Cocoon setup or Cocoon. If not, the 
problem is the driver or JDBC setup.


Sometimes I think that it would be quicker and easier to strip away 
*all* of the layers and go back to using the file system.




http://java.sun.com/JSP/Page";
  xmlns:c="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/core";
  xmlns:sql="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/sql";>



url="jdbc:oracle:thin:@localhost:1521:dbname"  user="scott"  
password="tiger" />



startRow="0">SELECT * FROM mytable


value="${columnName}"/>


  value="${col}"/>








Tuomo L wrote:

Thanks, I tested the sample, and it does work with HSQLDB. But when 
I tested it against SQL Server with similar results I got before: 
Upload works but reading the file with DatabaseReader returns 0 
bytes. :(


So, my guess is, something has changed between 2.1.5 and 2.1.7 that 
makes
the JDBC driver for SQL Server incompatible with Cocoon. With the 
jar-files from 2.1.5 (same setup otherwise) this works. What could 
this change be?


The method that throws this error "Assuming client reset stream" in 
DatabaseReader.java is:


public void generate() throws ProcessingException, SAXException, 
IOException {

try {
Response response = 
ObjectModelHelper.getResponse(objectModel);

this.serialize(response);
} catch (IOException ioe) {
getLogger().warn("Assuming client reset stream");

this.doCommit = false;
} catch (Exception e) {
this.doCommit = false;

throw new ResourceNotFoundException("DatabaseReader 
error:", e);

}
}


-Tuomo

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Andrew Franz wrote:


DatabaseReader is used in the samples:
http://localhost:8080/cocoon/samples/blocks/databases/mod-db/file-upload-blob 
(Cocoon 2.1.7, Tomcat 5.5)


After upload, this uses DatabaseReader to retrieve the image from 
HSQLDB.
If this works ok, then the problems are with SQL Server maybe the 
column definition



Tuomo L wrote:


Hi,

Is anyone using the DatabaseReader with Cocooon 2.1.7 ? We just 
cannot get

it to function. Log says "Assuming client reset stream".

If it works, could you please tell which versions of Java, Tomcat 
and db you have on what system? We're trying to figure out the 
source for this
problem. With Cocoon 2.1.5 everything works fine. We are using SQL 
Server

2000 and it's latest JDBC driver provided by MS.

-Tuomo


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Re: DatabaseReader problem with 2.1.7, help needed (fwd)

[Andrew Franz]

I haven't used SQL server from C2.
All I can suggest is to keep on isolating the problem, e.g try the JDBC 
driver directly under Tomcat using JSP

e.g. try the following - put it under webapps/jsp-examples
(substitute driver & url accordingly, the following is for Oracle)

If it works, the problem is your Cocoon setup or Cocoon. If not, the 
problem is the driver or JDBC setup.


Sometimes I think that it would be quicker and easier to strip away 
*all* of the layers and go back to using the file system.




http://java.sun.com/JSP/Page";
   xmlns:c="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/core";
   xmlns:sql="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/sql";>



url="jdbc:oracle:thin:@localhost:1521:dbname"  user="scott"  
password="tiger" />



startRow="0">SELECT * FROM mytable


value="${columnName}"/>


   value="${col}"/>








Tuomo L wrote:

Thanks, I tested the sample, and it does work with HSQLDB. But when I 
tested it against SQL Server with similar results I got before: Upload 
works but reading the file with DatabaseReader returns 0 bytes. :(


So, my guess is, something has changed between 2.1.5 and 2.1.7 that makes
the JDBC driver for SQL Server incompatible with Cocoon. With the 
jar-files from 2.1.5 (same setup otherwise) this works. What could 
this change be?


The method that throws this error "Assuming client reset stream" in 
DatabaseReader.java is:


public void generate() throws ProcessingException, SAXException, 
IOException {

try {
Response response = 
ObjectModelHelper.getResponse(objectModel);

this.serialize(response);
} catch (IOException ioe) {
getLogger().warn("Assuming client reset stream");

this.doCommit = false;
} catch (Exception e) {
this.doCommit = false;

    throw new ResourceNotFoundException("DatabaseReader 
error:", e);

}
}


-Tuomo

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Andrew Franz wrote:


DatabaseReader is used in the samples:
http://localhost:8080/cocoon/samples/blocks/databases/mod-db/file-upload-blob 


(Cocoon 2.1.7, Tomcat 5.5)

After upload, this uses DatabaseReader to retrieve the image from 
HSQLDB.
If this works ok, then the problems are with SQL Server maybe the 
column definition



Tuomo L wrote:


Hi,

Is anyone using the DatabaseReader with Cocooon 2.1.7 ? We just 
cannot get

it to function. Log says "Assuming client reset stream".

If it works, could you please tell which versions of Java, Tomcat 
and db you have on what system? We're trying to figure out the 
source for this
problem. With Cocoon 2.1.5 everything works fine. We are using SQL 
Server

2000 and it's latest JDBC driver provided by MS.

-Tuomo


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Re: DirectoryGenerator using abstract Source

[Andrew Franz]

Unico Hommes wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Michael Wechner wrote:
 


Joerg Heinicke wrote:

   


On 13.07.2005 00:28, Michael Wechner wrote:

 


It seems to me that the directory generator is not really based
on the "abstract methods" of an excalibur Source, but rather takes
the source and "maps" it onto a java.io.File.

Is that intended or just not implemented for the lack of time?

I would like to make this more generic with regard to other sources,
e.g.
JCR or whatever. If this makes sense then I would patch the
DirectoryGenerator,
but otherwise I would write a "DirectoryGenerator" from scratch, e.g
CollectionGenerator which is making use the TraversableSource interface.
   



You don't have to:
$COCOON_HOME/src/blocks/repository/java/org/apache/cocoon/generation/TraversableGenerator.java

 



thanks very much for the pointer. I think it would make sense to make a
note
within the DirectoryGenerator that the TraversableGenerator exists and is
more generic.

   



In fact IMHO, it should be deprecated in favor of TraversableGenerator...

- --
Unico

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As a user, I found that DirectoryGenerator didn't do what I wanted, so I 
went down the path of creating a variant of (not extending) 
DirectoryGenerator essentially to show meta-information (using POIFS) of 
MS-Office files and images (I also added ImageGenerator functionality 
and added .png, .ico, .bmp).

Output looks like this:

- <#>lastModified="*1118747923320*" date="*6/14/05 9:18 PM*" size="*110080*">
  

 
 lastModified="*998171376000*" date="*8/19/01 7:49 AM*" size="*96256*">

 
 
- <#>name="*PPT1.ppt*" lastModified="*1116947798687*" date="*5/25/05 1:16 
AM*" size="*11264*">
savedate="*5/25/05 1:16 AM*" />

 


 
 


Looking at TraversableGenerator, I saw a reference to an 
'InspectableSource'. This seems a better way to go.


(As a user) Is there a way to achieve the same outcome using 
TraversableGenerator and 'InspectableSource'?
(As a developer) Should I be extending 'InspectableSource' with POIFS or 
am I better off sticking with a custom generator?


The end goal is to extract meta-info and include it in the directory 
listing & then use Lucene to index the meta info - so a variety of file 
types need to be 'inspected'

Re: [vote] Give Max Pfingsthorn temporary and restricted commit privileges to our code repository

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 10 Jul 2005, at 12:23, Reinhard Poetz wrote:

In order to make his life and the life of his two mentors (Sylvain  
and I) easier, I want to give him *temporary* and *restricted*  
(http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/whiteboard/forms/**) commit  
privileges to our SVN code repository.


+1

Andrew.

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Re: looking for a moderation volunteer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 6 Jul 2005, at 15:59, Upayavira wrote:


Oh, and what lists have I just volunteered for?


All of the Apache lists ;-)

Nah, we currently do -dev, -user, -cvs, -doc, -pmc.

It's relatively low volume of valid messages, but quite high spam  
value, as Steven says.


Thanks,

Andrew.

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Re: Running cocoon as a war archive

[Andrew Franz]

Irv Salisbury wrote:


I have always run cocoon as an expanded war directory.  Our current
customer is requesting we run as a war file.  Are there any resources
or problems people have found with this strategy?

Thanks,

Irv


 



I had occasion to deal with an individual who insisted on this approach. 
It stems from a desire to 'lock down' production servers to prevent any 
changes. In practice, no software is perfect and there are times when a 
simple one-line change will immediately fix the problem. When you need 
to do this, you don't want to be making a one-line change in a staging 
environment and then re-deploying a 50Mb war file. Also you can't be 
totally certain that no other changes have been made in the staging 
environment. I would argue from a management perspective that deploying 
an expanded servlet is less risky and allows more responsive support. If 
the individual insists on the .war file approach, one possible approach 
is to run a staging servlet (expanded) in parallel with the production 
servlet (war file) - this has the advantage of the identical 
environment, available to test under production conditions & available 
as a backup in an emergency.


On the technical level, there are issues with anything that needs to be 
written to, such as HSQLDB.
   See 
http://www.mail-archive.com/cocoon-users@xml.apache.org/msg07183.html


Doesn't this belong in [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: iCal

[Andrew Franz]

Andrew Franz wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


Tony Collen wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


Andrew Franz wrote:


Has anyone thought about integrating iCal with Cocoon?






It would be great to have an iCal generator / iCal serializer!

Want to write it ?



http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt





Yeah, but that's not XML ;-)

Sylvain



I was tempted enough to read the RTF - all 148 pages!!


RFC (!)



But no, I have a day job, no expertise in this area & the extent of my 
cocoon knowledge is writing *one* generator


Thanks for the suggestion though ;-)

Re: iCal

[Andrew Franz]

Sylvain Wallez wrote:


Tony Collen wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


Andrew Franz wrote:


Has anyone thought about integrating iCal with Cocoon?





It would be great to have an iCal generator / iCal serializer!

Want to write it ?



http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt




Yeah, but that's not XML ;-)

Sylvain



I was tempted enough to read the RTF - all 148 pages!!

But no, I have a day job, no expertise in this area & the extent of my 
cocoon knowledge is writing *one* generator


Thanks for the suggestion though ;-)

Re: Extending DirectoryGenerator

[Andrew Franz]

(reposted from the user mailing list)

Andrew Franz wrote:

I am thinking about a simple CMS (Content Management System) which 
would have the following features:
1. Ability to list MS-Office files along with their 
 attributes (this would use Jakarta POI), ability 
to list "image" files (basically by cloning the functionality in 
ImageDirectoryGenerator) and be able to be extended to other commonly 
used document formats such as PDF

2. The output of #1 would be used as input to create a Lucene Index.
3. The Lucene index would be used to search an Intranet by Author, 
Title, Subject, etc.


This would mean that content-creators in the organisation would 
categorise documents simply by updating  
('Properties' in MS-Office applications) and then uploading the file 
(the current implementation requires them to update a database 
separate to the document itself). The Cocoon application would 
automatically categorise the document, either by using Lucene or from 
the SummaryInformation. Indexing would only apply to the header/meta 
info - full text indexing of content is not required.


The question (to experienced Cocoon developers) is what is the 
preferred method of implementation?


Option 1. Extend DirectoryGenerator similar to the way 
ImageDirectoryGenerator is implemented but adding new file types


Option 2. Use DirectoryGenerator 'as is' but augment it with a 
HeaderGenerator per file/mimetype and then aggregate results such that 
the output is similar to #1


Option 3. Tell the users to 'SaveAs' MS-Office documents into an XML 
format and use XSLT to extract the summary information. For example 
Visio binary format (VSD) can be saved as VXD and the same information 
can be extracted via XSLT


All of the above are feasible and invariant to the user-interface so 
the question is more about performance.


Has anyone gone down this route? Are there any pitfalls I need to be 
aware of? For the experienced Cocoon developers, what is your gut-feel 
about which is the preferred option?


Replies much appreciated.

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iCal

[Andrew Franz]

Has anyone thought about integrating iCal with Cocoon?

Re: [GT2005] News, vote and more news

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 17 Jun 2005, at 15:41, Steven Noels wrote:

Now, about the vote: we have rooms reserved for the entire first week 
of October, but need to decide on the first or last part of the week. 
So please indicate your preference (and reply to the dev list for 
easier counting):


Yes, I'm thinking of attending the Cocoon GetTogether 2005 in 
Amsterdam, preferably on


  [+1]  3/4/5 October (Mon->Wed)
  [ ]  5/6/7 October (Wed->Fri)


It would help in deciding if we had an indication of start / end times 
and social events, etc.


In previous years, there's been a great chance to grab beers with 
people the night before, which effectively means arriving on a Sunday 
or a Tuesday. If that's the case this year too, then I'm in favour of 
3/4/5 ...


Presumably you're aiming for hackathon on days 1&2, with day 3 for the 
main presentations?


Also, is it worth trying to do a deal with one of the larger hotels in 
Amsterdam, so as many of us as possible are all in one place, possibly 
securing a reduction in price?


Hurry up October, I can't wait!


Andrew.

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Re: London Users' Group Meeting next Wednesday 15th June

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 9 Jun 2005, at 12:02, Mark Leicester wrote:


The Slug And Lettuce, 80-82 Wardour Street, Soho, London:
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?pc=W1F+0TG
http://www.slugandlettuce.co.uk/directions/soho.htm

[1] http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/CocoonUserGroupLondon


A quick reminder  see you all tomorrow evening from around 7.30pm!


Andrew.

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Re: London Users' Group Meeting next Wednesday 15th June

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 9 Jun 2005, at 20:38, Upayavira wrote:

I don't know if we usually book. I think we just turn up and find 
seats. We don't normally have food, just guzzle :-)


We don't book ... it's not really a bookable kind of place (unless of 
course we have hundreds turning up!).


I'll wear a GT2004 t-shirt so those people that haven't met before can 
spot us. They look like this: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/silent-penguin/815204/



Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Document Editors, and a new Committer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 9 Jun 2005, at 10:52, Upayavira wrote:


[ ] Helma Van Der Linden as a Cocoon committer


+1 and welcome, Helma!


Andrew.

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Re: #cocoon

[Andrew Savory]

Hi Jorg,

On 19 May 2005, at 20:50, Jorg Heymans wrote:


At the moment, conversations on #cocoon are not logged.





I still think it is useful to log everything being said there and
include it somewhere for reference.





Objections? Thoughts?


I'd object because the IRC channel can contain informal chat as well as 
useful reference. IMHO the best way to get useful reference archived is 
for summaries of chats that resolve a problem to be posted back to the 
mailing list. This lets people talk in an informal context, but ensures 
useful content is not lost.



Andrew.

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Re: [VOTE] Removing author tags

[Andrew Savory]

On 2 May 2005, at 22:52, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
So I propose to remove @author tags with people names from all our 
source files.
+1
Additionally, if you agree with removing names, do you want source 
files to have:
[+1] no @author tag at all,
[ ] @author The Cocoon development team
[ ] @author . (something else)

Andrew.
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Re: Do we want a GUI installer?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 14 Apr 2005, at 19:21, Upayavira wrote:
But it seems that people aren't that keen anyway. And I'm not really 
interested in maintaining this elsewhere.
Yeah, not much point maintaining it elsewhere. Something that's 
supposed to make it easier to use shouldn't be difficult to get hold 
of.

So, doesn't seem to be a go-er.
I dunno, I'd like to see it in the sandbox at least. Whilst I agree 
Cocoon is no "point and click" tool, I really don't see why we 
shouldn't provide things that make it easier for those that just want 
to get on and work. Now a lot of us use Macs, we're allowed to condone 
GUIs, aren't we? :-)

Andrew.
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Re: [VOTE] Alfred Nathaniel as committer

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 9 Apr 2005, at 11:10, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
Please cast your votes:
+1!
Andrew.
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Re: Cocoon Hackathon at ApacheCon

[Andrew Savory]

Hey,
On 1 Apr 2005, at 07:40, Torsten Curdt wrote:
I would like to have a short poll to see how many people are coming.
[x] there is a chance I gonna make it
Andrew.
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Re: What is the community looking for?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 4 Apr 2005, at 23:37, Mark Leicester wrote:
So here's my vision of a site devoted to the marketing of Apache 
Cocoon: http://www.spreadcocoon.com:
* high search engine visibility;
* a repository of Apache Cocoon success stories;
These two particularly are things that could/should be applied to 
http://cocoon.apache.org/

* a catalogue of live Apache Cocoon web applications;
... cocoondev.org provides a repository and demos for some of these 
apps, but I agree seeing more running "in the wild" would be 
interesting.

* an environment to discuss issues of visual identity;
... like the mailing list? ;-)
* a repository of press clippings;
Nice idea.
* site-wide search;
Google search of cocoon.apache.org is already there iirc
* a collaborative space to help formulate press releases;
... like the wiki? ;-)
* a noticeboard to raise awareness of community events;
... like the wiki? ;-)
* accessible, standards based design - maximum inclusion;
This is coming with the 2.2 docs I think
* a way to publicise key personalities and participating 
organisations.
... publicising key personalities is something that's quite avoided by 
the Cocoon community, as it has a detrimental effect on the community.

I don't dislike your ideas, but I do think many of them are already 
being achieved by what we have in place, are planned to be fixed in the 
near future, or are not already there for community / technical / 
whatever reasons.

Cheers,
Andrew.
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Re: [Vote] Release of 2.1.7 on wednesday

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 22 Mar 2005, at 14:48, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
It seems that most of us agree that the current reported problems are 
no
blockers, so I suggest to release tomorrow (wednesday) whatever we will
have by then (if someone is able to fix some problems in the next 20
hours even better).

So, please cast your votes:
+1
Andrew.
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London Cocoon Beers

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
It's been a while since the last London Cocoon meetup, so a few of us 
have decided to meet up next Friday, 4th March. Any other Apache or 
Cocoon people are welcome to join us!

We'll be in the Slug and Lettuce on Wardour Street. I expect a lot of 
us will be there straight from work, but to be safe I'll say we'll 
definitely be there from 7.30pm.

If you feel like joining us, add your name to the Wiki 
(http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/CocoonUserGroupLondon) or follow-up to 
this thread...

Hope to see you on Friday :-)
Andrew.
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[andrew]

I don't  bite, weah!

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Re: [RT] Remove dependencies to XSP

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 9 Feb 2005, at 09:20, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
2) create two blocks for each block that supports xsp: for example a 
databases and a databases-xsp block
I suspect this is the easiest option.
Forget to say the obvious: this is of course only for trunk.
Hmm - any reason why it can't happen in BRANCH_2_1_X too? It's not a 
change in functionality, afaict...

Andrew.
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Re: Documentation system status + call for help!

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 8 Feb 2005, at 16:46, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Also, should be update the slide webdav lib in the distro as well?
There's no released version of the updated lib, only milestone release 
...

Andrew.
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Re: Version $Id$ style for xml files (Was: SVN behaviour with "Id" keyword)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 2 Feb 2005, at 16:38, Tim Larson wrote:
If nobody objects within then next little bit, I will use:
  
At least it will be a simple standard, and we could do an
automated textual replacement if we feel the need later.
... and we can extend with more syntax later.
Sounds good to me ...
The other issue is should this actually belong in the semantic content 
of the XML file. But I guess the revision of the content and the SVN 
revision of the file itself can be different things, depending on the 
content.

Andrew.
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Re: Version $Id$ style for xml files (Was: SVN behaviour with "Id" keyword)

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 2 Feb 2005, at 14:43, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
So I'm more than ok with formalizing a syntax for the Id string and 
other metadata for later analysis, but using specially-formatted 
comments. There used to be an xsldoc project at http://www.xsldoc.org/ 
that was producing javadoc-like documentation from javadoc-like 
comments (i.e. "@version $Id$", but also "@param", "@return" etc). 
Unfortunately the site is down.
Ahem. Oops. I have the source for xsldoc in my mail archive dating back 
to around this time last year. I spoke with Rick Maddy, the author, who 
was willing to contribute it to wherever wanted it, but there were 
problems since it was based on the Sun Javadoc sourcecode. If anyone 
feels like picking this up and dealing with Sun, I'm sure that would be 
fine.

LMK,
Andrew.
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Re: CONTRIBUTION: repeater-widget (insert row): InsertRowsActionDefinition

[Andrew Savory]

Hi David,
On 25 Jan 2005, at 01:36, depub2 wrote:
I would like to make a small contribution to the cocoon repeater-widget
(insert row) and would like someone (Sylvain Wallez?) to accept my  
code; so
I'll be a "ghostwriter" as it does not make sense for me to maintain  
this
small piece of code.
The best way to contribute this is to submit it as a patch via  
bugzilla, then as soon as someone (perhaps Sylvain!) gets a chance,  
they will be able to review it and add it to Cocoon.

Information on creating diffs can be found here:  
http://cocoon.apache.org/community/ 
contrib.html#How+to+Generate+Differences

Bugzilla can be found here:
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/
Thanks,
Andrew.
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Re: [QVOTE] Removing CForms' dependency on XSP

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 24 Jan 2005, at 09:31, Ugo Cei wrote:
I would like to rewrite those pages to use JXTG instead of XSP. Any 
objections?
Please do it! +100
Andrew.
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Re: Serious FlowScript problem

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 16 Nov 2004, at 12:57, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
Andrew Savory wrote:
Hi Kim,
On 16 Nov 2004, at 12:06, Kim Jelmoni wrote:
I m experiencing exactly the same problem described in
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10879848851&r=1&w=4). Apparently
randomly some function of flowscript are not found anymore.
Have somebody out there found the reson or/and a solution of this 
problem ?
The problem should be fixed in the latest version of Cocoon in SVN - 
I suggest you try that.
You could also try the test candidate from 
http://cvs.apache.org/~cziegeler/cocoon-rc/ or wait for the imminent 
2.1.6 release.
What was the problem?
I think it's this one:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10890622932&r=1&w=4
Cheers,
Andrew.
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Re: Serious FlowScript problem

[Andrew Savory]

Hi Kim,
On 16 Nov 2004, at 12:06, Kim Jelmoni wrote:
I m experiencing exactly the same problem described in
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10879848851&r=1&w=4). Apparently
randomly some function of flowscript are not found anymore.
Have somebody out there found the reson or/and a solution of this 
problem ?
The problem should be fixed in the latest version of Cocoon in SVN - I 
suggest you try that.

You could also try the test candidate from 
http://cvs.apache.org/~cziegeler/cocoon-rc/ or wait for the imminent 
2.1.6 release.

Thanks,
Andrew.
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Re: [VOTE] Leszek Gawron and Ralph Goers as committers

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 28 Oct 2004, at 16:04, Torsten Curdt wrote:
Folks please cast your votes for:
[+1] Leszek
[+1] Ralph
Sorry to be late to the party ;-)
Andrew.
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Re: Removing DELI

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 24 Sep 2004, at 09:58, Butler, Mark H (Labs Bristol) wrote:
Anyway the good news is I have integrated the latest version of DELI
(x0209404) that uses the latest Jena version (2.1) into a version of
Cocoon 2.1.5, so I can prepare a patch for this, assuming you are still
interested in having this component in Cocoon?
Yes please!
If you drop it into bugzilla or mail me off-list, I'll make sure it's 
added.

Cheers,
Andrew.
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Re: xmldb site is down?

[Andrew Thornton]

>> Thanks for the info. The supposed "official" link -
>> http://www.smb-tec.com/xmldb on the above mail is not working to me. I
>> found this one, but I am not sure if this is the same:
>> 
>> http://xmldb.sourceforge.net/
>> 
>> Can someone with more xmldb experience confirm the link?

I noticed that www.xmldb.org had died a while ago. The sourceforge project "xmldb-org" 
[1] is probably the thing you are looking for. However this says its homepage is 
http://www.smb-tec.com/xmldb, and the project doesn't seem particularly active...

andy

[1] http://www.sf.net/projects/xmldb-org

Re: Cocoon usage in Medical Informatics

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
On 10 Sep 2004, at 17:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know Jeremy/Luminas are also doing something along those lines! :-D
	Pier
Really?  Any details, please?  Is this commercial or open source?   Our
project is LGPL.
Yup, it's a biomedical image archive for a UK academic institution 
funded by JISC. It has basic search of the existing archive, OAI, image 
upload with MeSH metadata support and some simple moderation workflow.

We're currently in final stages of bug squashing, prior to going live 
later this month - at which point, I hope to make some more public 
noise about it! (Technical report publication, etc.)

The theory is that the whole application will be open source 
(Apache-style licensing) and available to download from the site. In 
practice, however, we haven't had this cleared by the customer's IPR 
dept. just yet ...

Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/


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Lucene query missing in 2.1.6-dev?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,
If you compare latest 2.1 SVN with the end of the CVS development, it  
appears the query directory has been missed out... but it is in the SVN  
trunk.

SVN 2.1:
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon/branches/BRANCH_2_1_X/src/ 
blocks/lucene/samples/?root=Apache-SVN

CVS:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon-2.1/src/blocks/lucene/samples/
SVN trunk:
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon/trunk/src/blocks/lucene/ 
samples/?root=Apache-SVN

Is this an error, deliberate, or simply a case of no-one has backported  
it to 2.1.6-dev yet?

Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/

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