Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Don't you think guys that is too much references, regarding what Alex found?

We are writing in AS - what about emphasis this to RoyaleAS?

I'm still not sure yet whether name change convince me..

Piotr

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017, 03:35 Jeffry Houser  wrote:

> Wasn't Royale the beta name for some version of Flex?  [Flex 2? or was
> it Flex 1?]
>
>
> On 9/13/2017 6:30 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> > Hi -
> >
> > I did a quick suitable name search.
> >
> > Royale might be taken by this individual’s project
> > https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale
> >
> > Otherwise Royale in a TESS search is liquor and beauty products mostly.
> > There is a lot of “Clash Royale"
> >
> > And there is also “Royale with Cheese” - a reference in Pulp Fiction
> > to what a Macdonald’s Quarter Pounder is called in Paris.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Dave Fisher  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> We have one alternative name - Royale
> >>
> >> Are there others that people would like to propose?
> >>
> >> If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Om,
> >>>
> >>> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS.
> >>> If we want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more
> >>> complicated VOTE counting.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Dave
> >>>
>  On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
>  > wrote:
> 
>  We could always structure the VOTE like this:
> 
>  1.  Royale
>  2.  XXX
>  3.  YYY
>  4.  FlexJS
> 
>  One vote should answer both questions.
> 
>  Thanks,
>  Om
> 
>  On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>  >
>  wrote:
> 
> > On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not
> > change the
> > name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
> > porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed
> > name...
> >
> > Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still
> > with
> > nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at
> > least one
> > day more before VOTE.
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki
> > >:
> >
> >> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> >>
> >> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to
> >> build new
> >> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can
> always
> > state
> >> from where we have come and what was our story.
> >>
> >> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale"
> >> as the
> >> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use
> >> it since
> >> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Piotr
> >>
> >> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher  >> >:
> >>
> >>> Hi -
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs   > wrote:
> 
>  Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> 
>  If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it,
>  that’s
> >>> value I can recognize.
> 
>  The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be
>  involved
> >>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around
> >>> the name.
> 
>  Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
> > about
> >>> mine.
> 
>  A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t
>  want to
> >>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new
> >>> name can
> > we
> >>> try and pick one quickly?
> >>>
> >>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
> >>>
> >>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the
> >>> result then
> >>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> 
>  Harbs
> 
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> >>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com
> >>> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm putting some efforts here since I 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Jeffry Houser]

Wasn't Royale the beta name for some version of Flex?  [Flex 2? or was 
it Flex 1?]



On 9/13/2017 6:30 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:

Hi -

I did a quick suitable name search.

Royale might be taken by this individual’s project 
https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale


Otherwise Royale in a TESS search is liquor and beauty products mostly.
There is a lot of “Clash Royale"

And there is also “Royale with Cheese” - a reference in Pulp Fiction 
to what a Macdonald’s Quarter Pounder is called in Paris.


Regards,
Dave

On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Dave Fisher > wrote:


Hi -

We have one alternative name - Royale

Are there others that people would like to propose?

If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.

Regards,
Dave

On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher > wrote:


Hi Om,

I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. 
If we want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more 
complicated VOTE counting.


Regards,
Dave

On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala 
> wrote:


We could always structure the VOTE like this:

1.  Royale
2.  XXX
3.  YYY
4.  FlexJS

One vote should answer both questions.

Thanks,
Om

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>

wrote:

On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not 
change the

name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed 
name...


Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still 
with
nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at 
least one

day more before VOTE.

Piotr



2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki 
>:



+1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.

I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to 
build new

brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always

state

from where we have come and what was our story.

I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" 
as the
most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use 
it since

it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?

Thanks,
Piotr

2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher >:



Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs > wrote:


Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.

If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, 
that’s

value I can recognize.


The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be 
involved
in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around 
the name.


Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do

about

mine.


A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t 
want to
delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new 
name can

we

try and pick one quickly?

Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.

In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the 
result then

we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.

Regards,
Dave




Harbs


On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com 
> wrote:


Hi all,

I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really 
important

for

all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.

Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is

important in
a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we 
don't

get a

fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we

explain
all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our 
time,

since
this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS 
projects, and

that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other

than

JS!!

(If we want in future years to make it possible).

@Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for






--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki






--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki










--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
http://www.dot-com-it.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
203-379-0773

RE: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Chris Martin]

Yeah no worries Carlos. I’ve been getting the same impression too. I'm totally 
down to move with what the team decides.



I think a name change is fine after 3 years when the “migration link” is less 
important as most people who want to migrate will have already well underway if 
not mostly completed.



Just wanted to get my thoughts up there before a [VOTE] thread hits.



Loving your thoughts and insights on the name change and this discussion 
overall.



Cheers,



Chrsmrtn

Sent from my Windows 10 phone



From: Carlos Rovira
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:45 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork



Chris,

2017-09-14 0:37 GMT+02:00 Chris Martin :
>
> As for the JS being apart of the name, I’m not too worried about it. Since
> we’re still in pre 1.0, I’d imagine we’re still working on stabilizing and
> getting that conversion to JS to work seamlessly?  Once that has stabilized
> I can totally see us “cross compiling” to Android, iPhone, etc. were
> naturally we’d want to loose the “JS” part of the name. That I can only
> figure would land around 3 years down the road? I honestly don’t have a
> good beat on where the FlexJS project is at right now. I feel like it’s
> close but just not there yet.
>
>
If we all already think the JS suffix is a mistake for a robust name, we
should address it now, since it cost many time to get people know and
respect a brand. So stick with xxxJS to change it in three years, is for me
something we shouldn't do at all, IMHO.

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi Dave,

I thank that's fine, but If I'm not missing something, we can have a more
friendly and easy domain that points to royale.apache.org,

Or even, we could setup an external website that leverages a good design
that will end referring to royale.apache.org for various resources (code,
wiki, docs, releases and so on)

(I'm talking of course about the marketing of the project)

Right?



2017-09-14 1:43 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

> Hey Carlos,
>
> At Apache we are required to use project.apache.org form. So we would be
> royale.apache.org/.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think we should target as well available domains. You could have a
> great
> > name but not a companion domain that would be ok with it.
> >
> > When choosing a domain for ROYALE, we should have some options (first
> > consider that .com is almost impossible today...only very strange names
> > could have some opportunity and this is not the case, and not what we
> > really want, so:
> >
> > 1) Use "royaleframework.XXX" (for example Spring Framework did just that
> > http://www.springframework.com), but I don't like that solution, in fact
> > they changed to what I think is better:
> >
> > 2) "royale.XXX" where XXX could be for example ".io", today ".io" is very
> > normal in technology and is shorter. For the previous example they now
> are:
> > http://spring.io/
> >
> > (again we should see what other respected and great frameworks did in the
> > past and copy what we think is ok for us)
> >
> > So if we choose 2) We will have "royale.io", that for me is a very
> > attractive domain.
> >
> > Regarding Alex and Dave research, we should think that ROYALE is a word
> > that we'll end having lots of referrals to many other things. Imagine you
> > want to name the project "CHEESE"...maybe here you should have to put
> some
> > other word to limit collisions (PURPLECHEESE, or whatever...)
> >
> > Regarding Macromedia Royale, I think it was an internal codename that
> never
> > was registered and the normal rule is put efforts in protect the final
> > branding name, so we should not be worried about that in case this name
> is
> > ok for us.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-09-14 0:46 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui :
> >
> >> Here are the guts of what would I would put in a PODLINGNAMESEARCH for
> >> Royale.  I don't see anything blocking, but I don't know if there is an
> >> issue with using former Macromedia project code names.  It doesn't
> appear
> >> that Macromedia registered it.
> >>
> >> Interestingly the first definition for "Royale" is not at all what I
> >> thought [1].  It is for food.  But it certainly hasn't stopped lots of
> >> folks from using the second definition in product names [2].
> >>
> >> EVIDENCE OF OPEN SOURCE ADOPTION
> >>
> >> A search on Github for "Royale" returns 705 repositories.  The first two
> >> pages are results seem to have lots of references to a game called
> "Clash
> >> Royale" and "Battle Royale".  There is one repo for a "React-esque
> >> framework for Javascript"
> >>
> >> There is a Royale project on SourceForge, but it looks empty [4] and a
> >> "Royale OS" project that is attempting to be an alternative to Windows
> >> [5].  The link to the website for Royale OS is broken.
> >>
> >> EVIDENCE OF REGISTRATION
> >>
> >> Royale has been registered multiple times:
> >> 1) Restaurant and bar services
> >> 2) Entertainment
> >> 3) Paints
> >> 4) Dinnerware
> >> 5) Wine
> >> 6) Backpacks
> >>
> >> Royale Software was registered but is now deemed "DEAD".
> >>
> >> EVIDENCE OF USE ON WORLD WIDE WEB
> >>
> >> Google search turned up an "OSRoyale" project [6] and a search for
> "Royale
> >> Software" turned up [7].  In addition there are products with "Royal"
> >> instead of "Royale" like [8] and [9].
> >>
> >> Also Macromedia used "Royale" as the code name for Flex.  A search for
> >> "Macromedia Royale" turns up some hits.
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/royale?s=t
> >> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royale
> >> [3] https://github.com/search?p=2=Royale=Repositories=✓
> >> [4] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royale/
> >> [5] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royaleos/?source=directory
> >> [6] https://www.osroyale.com
> >> [7] http://pmdtec.com/picofamily/blog/tag/royale/
> >> [8] http://linux-royal.net
> >> [9] https://www.royalapplications.com/ts/mac/features
> >>
> >> On 9/13/17, 2:57 PM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash
> Muppirala"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
> >>>
> >>> 1.  Royale
> >>> 2.  XXX
> >>> 3.  YYY
> >>> 4.  FlexJS
> >>>
> >>> One vote should answer both questions.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Om
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  On the 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hey Carlos,

At Apache we are required to use project.apache.org form. So we would be 
royale.apache.org/.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Carlos Rovira  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think we should target as well available domains. You could have a great
> name but not a companion domain that would be ok with it.
> 
> When choosing a domain for ROYALE, we should have some options (first
> consider that .com is almost impossible today...only very strange names
> could have some opportunity and this is not the case, and not what we
> really want, so:
> 
> 1) Use "royaleframework.XXX" (for example Spring Framework did just that
> http://www.springframework.com), but I don't like that solution, in fact
> they changed to what I think is better:
> 
> 2) "royale.XXX" where XXX could be for example ".io", today ".io" is very
> normal in technology and is shorter. For the previous example they now are:
> http://spring.io/
> 
> (again we should see what other respected and great frameworks did in the
> past and copy what we think is ok for us)
> 
> So if we choose 2) We will have "royale.io", that for me is a very
> attractive domain.
> 
> Regarding Alex and Dave research, we should think that ROYALE is a word
> that we'll end having lots of referrals to many other things. Imagine you
> want to name the project "CHEESE"...maybe here you should have to put some
> other word to limit collisions (PURPLECHEESE, or whatever...)
> 
> Regarding Macromedia Royale, I think it was an internal codename that never
> was registered and the normal rule is put efforts in protect the final
> branding name, so we should not be worried about that in case this name is
> ok for us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-09-14 0:46 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui :
> 
>> Here are the guts of what would I would put in a PODLINGNAMESEARCH for
>> Royale.  I don't see anything blocking, but I don't know if there is an
>> issue with using former Macromedia project code names.  It doesn't appear
>> that Macromedia registered it.
>> 
>> Interestingly the first definition for "Royale" is not at all what I
>> thought [1].  It is for food.  But it certainly hasn't stopped lots of
>> folks from using the second definition in product names [2].
>> 
>> EVIDENCE OF OPEN SOURCE ADOPTION
>> 
>> A search on Github for "Royale" returns 705 repositories.  The first two
>> pages are results seem to have lots of references to a game called "Clash
>> Royale" and "Battle Royale".  There is one repo for a "React-esque
>> framework for Javascript"
>> 
>> There is a Royale project on SourceForge, but it looks empty [4] and a
>> "Royale OS" project that is attempting to be an alternative to Windows
>> [5].  The link to the website for Royale OS is broken.
>> 
>> EVIDENCE OF REGISTRATION
>> 
>> Royale has been registered multiple times:
>> 1) Restaurant and bar services
>> 2) Entertainment
>> 3) Paints
>> 4) Dinnerware
>> 5) Wine
>> 6) Backpacks
>> 
>> Royale Software was registered but is now deemed "DEAD".
>> 
>> EVIDENCE OF USE ON WORLD WIDE WEB
>> 
>> Google search turned up an "OSRoyale" project [6] and a search for "Royale
>> Software" turned up [7].  In addition there are products with "Royal"
>> instead of "Royale" like [8] and [9].
>> 
>> Also Macromedia used "Royale" as the code name for Flex.  A search for
>> "Macromedia Royale" turns up some hits.
>> 
>> [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/royale?s=t
>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royale
>> [3] https://github.com/search?p=2=Royale=Repositories=✓
>> [4] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royale/
>> [5] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royaleos/?source=directory
>> [6] https://www.osroyale.com
>> [7] http://pmdtec.com/picofamily/blog/tag/royale/
>> [8] http://linux-royal.net
>> [9] https://www.royalapplications.com/ts/mac/features
>> 
>> On 9/13/17, 2:57 PM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Royale
>>> 2.  XXX
>>> 3.  YYY
>>> 4.  FlexJS
>>> 
>>> One vote should answer both questions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Om
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change
 the
 name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
 porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed
 name...
 
 Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
 nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least
 one
 day more before VOTE.
 
 Piotr
 
 
 
 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
 
> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> 
> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi,

I think we should target as well available domains. You could have a great
name but not a companion domain that would be ok with it.

When choosing a domain for ROYALE, we should have some options (first
consider that .com is almost impossible today...only very strange names
could have some opportunity and this is not the case, and not what we
really want, so:

1) Use "royaleframework.XXX" (for example Spring Framework did just that
http://www.springframework.com), but I don't like that solution, in fact
they changed to what I think is better:

2) "royale.XXX" where XXX could be for example ".io", today ".io" is very
normal in technology and is shorter. For the previous example they now are:
http://spring.io/

(again we should see what other respected and great frameworks did in the
past and copy what we think is ok for us)

So if we choose 2) We will have "royale.io", that for me is a very
attractive domain.

Regarding Alex and Dave research, we should think that ROYALE is a word
that we'll end having lots of referrals to many other things. Imagine you
want to name the project "CHEESE"...maybe here you should have to put some
other word to limit collisions (PURPLECHEESE, or whatever...)

Regarding Macromedia Royale, I think it was an internal codename that never
was registered and the normal rule is put efforts in protect the final
branding name, so we should not be worried about that in case this name is
ok for us.




2017-09-14 0:46 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui :

> Here are the guts of what would I would put in a PODLINGNAMESEARCH for
> Royale.  I don't see anything blocking, but I don't know if there is an
> issue with using former Macromedia project code names.  It doesn't appear
> that Macromedia registered it.
>
> Interestingly the first definition for "Royale" is not at all what I
> thought [1].  It is for food.  But it certainly hasn't stopped lots of
> folks from using the second definition in product names [2].
>
> EVIDENCE OF OPEN SOURCE ADOPTION
>
> A search on Github for "Royale" returns 705 repositories.  The first two
> pages are results seem to have lots of references to a game called "Clash
> Royale" and "Battle Royale".  There is one repo for a "React-esque
> framework for Javascript"
>
> There is a Royale project on SourceForge, but it looks empty [4] and a
> "Royale OS" project that is attempting to be an alternative to Windows
> [5].  The link to the website for Royale OS is broken.
>
> EVIDENCE OF REGISTRATION
>
> Royale has been registered multiple times:
> 1) Restaurant and bar services
> 2) Entertainment
> 3) Paints
> 4) Dinnerware
> 5) Wine
> 6) Backpacks
>
> Royale Software was registered but is now deemed "DEAD".
>
> EVIDENCE OF USE ON WORLD WIDE WEB
>
> Google search turned up an "OSRoyale" project [6] and a search for "Royale
> Software" turned up [7].  In addition there are products with "Royal"
> instead of "Royale" like [8] and [9].
>
> Also Macromedia used "Royale" as the code name for Flex.  A search for
> "Macromedia Royale" turns up some hits.
>
> [1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/royale?s=t
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royale
> [3] https://github.com/search?p=2=Royale=Repositories=✓
> [4] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royale/
> [5] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royaleos/?source=directory
> [6] https://www.osroyale.com
> [7] http://pmdtec.com/picofamily/blog/tag/royale/
> [8] http://linux-royal.net
> [9] https://www.royalapplications.com/ts/mac/features
>
> On 9/13/17, 2:57 PM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>  wrote:
>
> >We could always structure the VOTE like this:
> >
> >1.  Royale
> >2.  XXX
> >3.  YYY
> >4.  FlexJS
> >
> >One vote should answer both questions.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Om
> >
> >On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
> >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change
> >>the
> >> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
> >> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed
> >>name...
> >>
> >> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
> >> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least
> >>one
> >> day more before VOTE.
> >>
> >> Piotr
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
> >>
> >> > +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> >> >
> >> > I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build
> >>new
> >> > brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
> >> state
> >> > from where we have come and what was our story.
> >> >
> >> > I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as
> >>the
> >> > most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it
> >>since
> >> > it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> >> >
> >> > 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Alex Harui]

Here are the guts of what would I would put in a PODLINGNAMESEARCH for
Royale.  I don't see anything blocking, but I don't know if there is an
issue with using former Macromedia project code names.  It doesn't appear
that Macromedia registered it.

Interestingly the first definition for "Royale" is not at all what I
thought [1].  It is for food.  But it certainly hasn't stopped lots of
folks from using the second definition in product names [2].

EVIDENCE OF OPEN SOURCE ADOPTION

A search on Github for "Royale" returns 705 repositories.  The first two
pages are results seem to have lots of references to a game called "Clash
Royale" and "Battle Royale".  There is one repo for a "React-esque
framework for Javascript"

There is a Royale project on SourceForge, but it looks empty [4] and a
"Royale OS" project that is attempting to be an alternative to Windows
[5].  The link to the website for Royale OS is broken.

EVIDENCE OF REGISTRATION

Royale has been registered multiple times:
1) Restaurant and bar services
2) Entertainment
3) Paints
4) Dinnerware
5) Wine
6) Backpacks

Royale Software was registered but is now deemed "DEAD".

EVIDENCE OF USE ON WORLD WIDE WEB

Google search turned up an "OSRoyale" project [6] and a search for "Royale
Software" turned up [7].  In addition there are products with "Royal"
instead of "Royale" like [8] and [9].

Also Macromedia used "Royale" as the code name for Flex.  A search for
"Macromedia Royale" turns up some hits.

[1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/royale?s=t
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royale
[3] https://github.com/search?p=2=Royale=Repositories=✓
[4] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royale/
[5] https://sourceforge.net/projects/royaleos/?source=directory
[6] https://www.osroyale.com
[7] http://pmdtec.com/picofamily/blog/tag/royale/
[8] http://linux-royal.net
[9] https://www.royalapplications.com/ts/mac/features

On 9/13/17, 2:57 PM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
 wrote:

>We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>
>1.  Royale
>2.  XXX
>3.  YYY
>4.  FlexJS
>
>One vote should answer both questions.
>
>Thanks,
>Om
>
>On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>
>wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change
>>the
>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed
>>name...
>>
>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least
>>one
>> day more before VOTE.
>>
>> Piotr
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>>
>> > +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>> >
>> > I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build
>>new
>> > brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>> state
>> > from where we have come and what was our story.
>> >
>> > I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as
>>the
>> > most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it
>>since
>> > it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Piotr
>> >
>> > 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
>> >
>> >> Hi -
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it,
>>that’s
>> >> value I can recognize.
>> >> >
>> >> > The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be
>>involved
>> >> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the
>>name.
>> >> >
>> >> > Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>> about
>> >> mine.
>> >> >
>> >> > A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want
>>to
>> >> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name
>>can
>> we
>> >> try and pick one quickly?
>> >>
>> >> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> >>
>> >> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result
>>then
>> >> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Harbs
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> >> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi all,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really
>>important
>> >> for
>> >> >> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>> >> important in
>> >> >> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we
>>don't
>> >> get a
>> >> >> fresh and compelling name and a clean and 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Chris,

2017-09-14 0:37 GMT+02:00 Chris Martin :
>
> As for the JS being apart of the name, I’m not too worried about it. Since
> we’re still in pre 1.0, I’d imagine we’re still working on stabilizing and
> getting that conversion to JS to work seamlessly?  Once that has stabilized
> I can totally see us “cross compiling” to Android, iPhone, etc. were
> naturally we’d want to loose the “JS” part of the name. That I can only
> figure would land around 3 years down the road? I honestly don’t have a
> good beat on where the FlexJS project is at right now. I feel like it’s
> close but just not there yet.
>
>
If we all already think the JS suffix is a mistake for a robust name, we
should address it now, since it cost many time to get people know and
respect a brand. So stick with xxxJS to change it in three years, is for me
something we shouldn't do at all, IMHO.

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi Dave,

I think Ian's project should not be a problem since It's like the "Flex"
name, it could be as well choose for someone to start a project and nobody
could obligate him to change it. But "Apache Flex" is not the same, there
will be trademarks problems. If not, the marketing world would collapse
itself since I'm sure almost all names are chosen.





2017-09-14 0:30 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

> Hi -
>
> I did a quick suitable name search.
>
> Royale might be taken by this individual’s project https://github.com/
> ian-culleton/royale
>
> Otherwise Royale in a TESS search is liquor and beauty products mostly.
> There is a lot of “Clash Royale"
>
> And there is also “Royale with Cheese” - a reference in Pulp Fiction to
> what a Macdonald’s Quarter Pounder is called in Paris.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> We have one alternative name - Royale
>
> Are there others that people would like to propose?
>
> If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> Hi Om,
>
> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we
> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated
> VOTE counting.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala 
> wrote:
>
> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>
> 1.  Royale
> 2.  XXX
> 3.  YYY
> 4.  FlexJS
>
> One vote should answer both questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki  >
> wrote:
>
> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>
> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
> day more before VOTE.
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>
> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>
> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>
> state
>
> from where we have come and what was our story.
>
> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
>
> Hi -
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>
> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>
> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>
> value I can recognize.
>
>
> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>
> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>
>
> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>
> about
>
> mine.
>
>
> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>
> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>
> we
>
> try and pick one quickly?
>
> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>
> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>
> Harbs
>
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>
> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>
> for
>
> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>
> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>
> important in
>
> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>
> get a
>
> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>
> explain
>
> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>
> since
>
> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>
> than
>
> JS!!
>
> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>
> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Piotr Zarzycki
>
> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557> <+48%20880%20859%20557>
> skype: zarzycki10
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Piotr Zarzycki
>
> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
> skype: zarzycki10
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> 

RE: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Chris Martin]

I think the project name and “product” name should match up. I don’t feel what 
we have is a product. We have a framework that developers will use to produce a 
product.  If the names align then searches will be much easier to follow. That 
way when we produce “marketing material” for the framework and actually attract 
potential contributors, they’d easily find us on Apache as the names match up. 
We’re devs, miss-matching namespaces freak us out 

I’m still in the same camp with Alex. I’m still worried about devs finding the 
solution as a migration from Apache Flex.

As for the JS being apart of the name, I’m not too worried about it. Since 
we’re still in pre 1.0, I’d imagine we’re still working on stabilizing and 
getting that conversion to JS to work seamlessly?  Once that has stabilized I 
can totally see us “cross compiling” to Android, iPhone, etc. were naturally 
we’d want to loose the “JS” part of the name. That I can only figure would land 
around 3 years down the road? I honestly don’t have a good beat on where the 
FlexJS project is at right now. I feel like it’s close but just not there yet.

If I was presented with a concern from management about the relation of Flex 
and FlexJS, then I’d just simply say that FlexJS affords us to still use the 
vast knowledge base of the Flex framework and target a different runtime.  If 
we were to choose another framework like Angular or Aurelia, then we’d not only 
be migrating to a new platform, but also to a whole new framework. That 
migration will take way longer, even if we started both projects from the 
ground up. If they are concerned about ActionScript as a language in terms of 
it’s longevity, I’d point out that isn’t where the knowledge overhead is at. 
It’s the framework. ActionScript and JavaScript are pretty darn near 
interchangeable as a language. And ActionScript still has a very happy and 
stable home with Adobe AIR.

Chrsmrtn

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:09 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Hi -

We have one alternative name - Royale

Are there others that people would like to propose?

If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> Hi Om,
>
> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we 
> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated 
> VOTE counting.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
>> wrote:
>>
>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>>
>> 1.  Royale
>> 2.  XXX
>> 3.  YYY
>> 4.  FlexJS
>>
>> One vote should answer both questions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>>>
>>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>>> day more before VOTE.
>>>
>>> Piotr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>>>
 +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.

 I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
 brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>> state
 from where we have come and what was our story.

 I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
 most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
 it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?

 Thanks,
 Piotr

 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

> Hi -
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>>
>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>
>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
> value I can recognize.
>>
>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>
>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>>> about
> mine.
>>
>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>> we
> try and pick one quickly?
>
> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>
> In parallel 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I did a quick suitable name search.

Royale might be taken by this individual’s project 
https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale 

Otherwise Royale in a TESS search is liquor and beauty products mostly.
There is a lot of “Clash Royale"

And there is also “Royale with Cheese” - a reference in Pulp Fiction to what a 
Macdonald’s Quarter Pounder is called in Paris.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> We have one alternative name - Royale
> 
> Are there others that people would like to propose?
> 
> If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Om,
>> 
>> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we 
>> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated 
>> VOTE counting.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Royale
>>> 2.  XXX
>>> 3.  YYY
>>> 4.  FlexJS
>>> 
>>> One vote should answer both questions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Om
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
 name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
 porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
 
 Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
 nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
 day more before VOTE.
 
 Piotr
 
 
 
 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
 
> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> 
> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
 state
> from where we have come and what was our story.
> 
> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 
> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>> 
>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>> value I can recognize.
>>> 
>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>> 
>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
 about
>> mine.
>>> 
>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
 we
>> try and pick one quickly?
>> 
>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> 
>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Harbs
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>> for
 all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
 
 Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>> important in
 a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>> get a
 fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>> explain
 all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>> since
 this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
 that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
 than
>> JS!!
 (If we want in future years to make it possible).
 
 @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Piotr Zarzycki
> 
> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
> skype: zarzycki10
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> 
> 
 
 
 
 --
 
 Piotr Zarzycki
 
 mobile: +48 880 859 557
 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

We have one alternative name - Royale

Are there others that people would like to propose?

If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi Om,
> 
> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we 
> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated 
> VOTE counting.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>> 
>> 1.  Royale
>> 2.  XXX
>> 3.  YYY
>> 4.  FlexJS
>> 
>> One vote should answer both questions.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>>> 
>>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>>> day more before VOTE.
>>> 
>>> Piotr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>>> 
 +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
 
 I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
 brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>> state
 from where we have come and what was our story.
 
 I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
 most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
 it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
 
 Thanks,
 Piotr
 
 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
 
> Hi -
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>> 
>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>> 
>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
> value I can recognize.
>> 
>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>> 
>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>>> about
> mine.
>> 
>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>> we
> try and pick one quickly?
> 
> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
> 
> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> 
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
> for
>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>> 
>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
> important in
>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
> get a
>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
> explain
>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
> since
>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>>> than
> JS!!
>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>> 
>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
> 
> 
 
 
 --
 
 Piotr Zarzycki
 
 mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
 skype: zarzycki10
 
 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>> 
>>> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Om,

I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we want 
to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated VOTE 
counting.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  wrote:
> 
> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
> 
> 1.  Royale
> 2.  XXX
> 3.  YYY
> 4.  FlexJS
> 
> One vote should answer both questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
> wrote:
> 
>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>> 
>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>> day more before VOTE.
>> 
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>> 
>>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>>> 
>>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
>>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>> state
>>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>>> 
>>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
>>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
>>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Piotr
>>> 
>>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
>>> 
 Hi -
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> 
> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
 value I can recognize.
> 
> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
 in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> 
> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>> about
 mine.
> 
> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
 delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>> we
 try and pick one quickly?
 
 Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
 
 In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
 we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
 
 Regards,
 Dave
 
 
> 
> Harbs
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
 carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
 for
>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>> 
>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
 important in
>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
 get a
>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
 explain
>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
 since
>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>> than
 JS!!
>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>> 
>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>> 
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>> skype: zarzycki10
>> 
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>> 
>> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[OmPrakash Muppirala]

We could always structure the VOTE like this:

1.  Royale
2.  XXX
3.  YYY
4.  FlexJS

One vote should answer both questions.

Thanks,
Om

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
wrote:

> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>
> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
> day more before VOTE.
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
>
> > +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> >
> > I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> > brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
> state
> > from where we have come and what was our story.
> >
> > I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> > most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> > it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> >
> > 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> >
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> >> >
> >> > If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
> >> value I can recognize.
> >> >
> >> > The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
> >> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> >> >
> >> > Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
> about
> >> mine.
> >> >
> >> > A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
> >> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
> we
> >> try and pick one quickly?
> >>
> >> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
> >>
> >> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
> >> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Harbs
> >> >
> >> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> >> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi all,
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
> >> for
> >> >> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
> >> >>
> >> >> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
> >> important in
> >> >> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
> >> get a
> >> >> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
> >> explain
> >> >> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
> >> since
> >> >> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
> >> >> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
> than
> >> JS!!
> >> >> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
> >> >>
> >> >> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Piotr Zarzycki
> >
> > mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
> > skype: zarzycki10
> >
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Piotr Zarzycki
>
> mobile: +48 880 859 557
> skype: zarzycki10
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Dave,

Personally I like the idea.

Thanks,
Piotr

2017-09-13 23:46 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

> When we start the VOTE I suggest the following ballot:
>
> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>
> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
> discussed.
> [ ] Abstain - Don’t care what the forked project is called.
>
> Discuss?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
> wrote:
> >
> > +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> >
> > I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> > brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
> state
> > from where we have come and what was our story.
> >
> > I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> > most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> > it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> >
> > 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> >
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> >>>
> >>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
> >> value I can recognize.
> >>>
> >>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
> >> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> >>>
> >>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
> >> mine.
> >>>
> >>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
> >> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
> we
> >> try and pick one quickly?
> >>
> >> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
> >>
> >> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
> we
> >> can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Harbs
> >>>
>  On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> >> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> 
>  Hi all,
> 
>  I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
> for
>  all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
> 
>  Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
> important
> >> in
>  a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
> get
> >> a
>  fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
> >> explain
>  all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
> >> since
>  this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>  that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
> >> JS!!
>  (If we want in future years to make it possible).
> 
>  @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Piotr Zarzycki
> >
> > mobile: +48 880 859 557
> > skype: zarzycki10
> >
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> > 
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Alex Harui]

I think the momentum is shifting and the vote will be about some other
name.

-Alex

On 9/13/17, 2:46 PM, "Dave Fisher"  wrote:

>When we start the VOTE I suggest the following ballot:
>
>VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>
>[ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>[ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>discussed.
>[ ] Abstain - Don’t care what the forked project is called.
>
>Discuss?
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>wrote:
>> 
>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>> 
>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>state
>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>> 
>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it
>>since
>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
 
 Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
 
 If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>> value I can recognize.
 
 The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
 
 Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
about
>>> mine.
 
 A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>>we
>>> try and pick one quickly?
>>> 
>>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>>> 
>>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result
>>>then we
>>> can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
 
 Harbs
 
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>for
> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
> 
> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>important
>>> in
> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>get
>>> a
> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>> explain
> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>>> since
> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>than
>>> JS!!
> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
> 
> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>> 
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>> skype: zarzycki10
>> 
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

When we start the VOTE I suggest the following ballot:

VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
[ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be discussed.
[ ] Abstain - Don’t care what the forked project is called.

Discuss?

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Piotr Zarzycki  wrote:
> 
> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> 
> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always state
> from where we have come and what was our story.
> 
> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 
> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>> 
>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>> value I can recognize.
>>> 
>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>> 
>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
>> mine.
>>> 
>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we
>> try and pick one quickly?
>> 
>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> 
>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then we
>> can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Harbs
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
 all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
 
 Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important
>> in
 a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get
>> a
 fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>> explain
 all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>> since
 this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
 that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
>> JS!!
 (If we want in future years to make it possible).
 
 @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Piotr Zarzycki
> 
> mobile: +48 880 859 557
> skype: zarzycki10
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

+1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.

I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always state
from where we have come and what was our story.

I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?

Thanks,
Piotr

2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

> Hi -
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> >
> > Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> >
> > If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
> value I can recognize.
> >
> > The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> >
> > Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
> mine.
> >
> > A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we
> try and pick one quickly?
>
> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>
> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then we
> can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
> >
> > Harbs
> >
> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
> >> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
> >>
> >> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important
> in
> >> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get
> a
> >> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
> explain
> >> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
> since
> >> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
> >> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
> JS!!
> >> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
> >>
> >> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

Let’s slow the roll and see what the people say when the sun is shining on 
their part of the globe.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I prefer not to rush a vote for FlexJS because I feel like Carlos and Om
> are starting to change some minds.  AFAICT, everyone who was in favor of
> FlexJS as the name was mainly concerned about how migrating Flex customers
> will find that we have something that can help them.  And the answer to
> that is going to affect my decision, so maybe we need to focus on that
> quickly.
> 
> It could be that it doesn’t matter whether FlexJS is the product name
> because migrating customers just want to know that it is a next generation
> of Flex and can help them with migration and don't care what it is called.
> 
> 
> Also, we have a transition problem anyway.  If the fork is approved, we're
> going to want to put in redirects on parts of flex.a.o that mention FlexJS
> referring to the fork.  Maybe those redirects could go anywhere unless
> folks will somehow be more assured by landing on a FlexJS page instead of
> a Foo page?   IOW, maybe FlexJS is out there enough that redirects will be
> how people find us regardless of name.
> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 1:59 PM, "Dave Fisher"  wrote:
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>> 
>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>> value I can recognize.
>>> 
>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>> 
>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
>>> mine.
>>> 
>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>> we try and pick one quickly?
>> 
>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> 
>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Harbs
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
 for
 all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
 
 Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
 important in
 a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
 get a
 fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
 explain
 all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
 since
 this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
 that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
 JS!!
 (If we want in future years to make it possible).
 
 @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Alex Harui]

Hi Dave,

I prefer not to rush a vote for FlexJS because I feel like Carlos and Om
are starting to change some minds.  AFAICT, everyone who was in favor of
FlexJS as the name was mainly concerned about how migrating Flex customers
will find that we have something that can help them.  And the answer to
that is going to affect my decision, so maybe we need to focus on that
quickly.

It could be that it doesn’t matter whether FlexJS is the product name
because migrating customers just want to know that it is a next generation
of Flex and can help them with migration and don't care what it is called.
 

Also, we have a transition problem anyway.  If the fork is approved, we're
going to want to put in redirects on parts of flex.a.o that mention FlexJS
referring to the fork.  Maybe those redirects could go anywhere unless
folks will somehow be more assured by landing on a FlexJS page instead of
a Foo page?   IOW, maybe FlexJS is out there enough that redirects will be
how people find us regardless of name.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/13/17, 1:59 PM, "Dave Fisher"  wrote:

>Hi -
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
>> 
>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>> 
>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>value I can recognize.
>> 
>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>> 
>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
>>mine.
>> 
>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>we try and pick one quickly?
>
>Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>
>In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>>>for
>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>> 
>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>>>important in
>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>>>get a
>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>>explain
>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>>>since
>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
>>>JS!!
>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>> 
>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> 
> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s value I 
> can recognize.
> 
> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved in the 
> project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> 
> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about mine.
> 
> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to delay 
> the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we try and 
> pick one quickly?

Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.

In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then we can 
immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Harbs
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>> 
>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important in
>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get a
>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we explain
>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time, since
>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than JS!!
>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>> 
>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Harbs]

Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.

If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s value I 
can recognize.

The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved in the 
project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.

Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about mine.

A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to delay the 
board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we try and pick 
one quickly?

Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
> 
> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important in
> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get a
> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we explain
> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time, since
> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than JS!!
> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
> 
> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for the
> reason you stated, people will end reaching "FlexJS" name and will
> interpret that as a joke, so no, even naming inside the project (including
> vars, functions and so on...) are part of what people ends liking or
> hating.
> 
> @Harbs, I said that I can put work on naming, website design and even host
> the web, but for doing so I need to feel the name is the right one, and I'm
> fearing that people is looking for a name that I don't think could give us
> some opportunity to fight with the great ones, since React or Dart, seems
> to me that has some sounding or power behind, but Beads, or Strand does not
> mean anything outside our own understanding for what we know it means in
> our architecture. But we should not decide a name based in that kind of
> things since we will end having something that in the mainstream does not
> has the needs to evocate a great and powerful technology to people out
> there.
> 
> I think the name change could involve at least two of us :
> 
> - 1 to make changes in code (repos, git,etc...
> - 1 to make more marketing things: logo, website, etc..
> 
> I offer my work for the second, my only condition is that I need to believe
> in the final name we choose, and since we are a community, this must be
> elected by all of us, and we could work in it in the same manner : if
> people believe in it, people will work in it. I have clear that I will work
> if the final community decision has a strong base and I can envision that
> the effort will push the tech to a great place (or at least has options to
> be fighting in the mainstream of actual techs like Angular, React, and
> others)
> 
> @Om, thanks, I think you like me and others I know that has live that
> situation, knows perfectly how devaluated is  the Flex name in actual
> times, so is crucial for us to change it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-09-13 19:57 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala :
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
>> 
>> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
>> without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
>> 
>> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
>> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
>> conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
>> 
>> If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
>> technology.
>> 
>> I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Alex Harui
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>> 
>> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
>> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
>> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
>> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
>> 
>> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
>> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
>> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
>> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
>> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
>> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
>> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
>> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run 

Re: home.apache.org

[Peter Ent]

Success! Thanks for clarifying that.
—peter

On 9/13/17, 4:12 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:

>On 13/09/17 21:00, Peter Ent wrote:
>> My LDAP entry at id.apache.org has a OpenPGP Public Key Primary
>> Fingerprint set. I assume when I do sftp p...@home.apache.org it looks
>>up
>> 'pent' and sees the OpenPGP fingerprint, goes out to some key server and
>> fetches whatever it needs.
>> 
>> And after all this time I still get Permission denied. Maybe that's not
>>a
>> real PGP key. I looked up PGP for the Mac and found GPG Keychain which
>>it
>> says makes OpenPGP keys. Just very confused.
>
>OK. You are mixing up key types.
>
>The OpenPGP is typically used for signing releases and encrypting
>e-mail. It isn't used for SSH.
>
>Separately, you should also see in id.apache.org one or more "SSH Key
>(authorized keys)" line.
>
>This is the SSH public key that corresponds to your SSH private key that
>you would typically store in ~/.ssh/id_rsa
>(you can be more descriptive with the filename if you want to be)
>
>If you only have one SSH key is should 'just work'. If you have more
>than one you'll need to do some additional configuration via
>~/.ssh/config
>
>Did you remember to copy across your SSH private key from you old
>computer to your newer one? If not, you can either copy it now or create
>a new one and replace the public SSH key stored at id.a.o
>
>HTH,
>
>Mark
>
>
>> 
>> —peter
>> 
>> On 9/13/17, 3:15 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13/09/17 19:27, Peter Ent wrote:
 Thanks, Mark.

 I think I've done all the right stuff. As I started to do it, I began
to
 remember doing it once before for SSH. I've been waiting awhile and
 still
 get permission denied, so I'll just keep waiting. I'm pretty sure I
sent
 my key to a public key server. I'll go out for coffee and I hope it
 works
 when I get back.
>>>
>>> That sounds like you might be mixing up OpenPGP release keys and SSH
>>> keys. Anyway...
>>>
>>> I've checked your LDAP record and you do have a public SSH key
>>> configured. If it doesn't work when you try again let me know the time
>>> (UTC) and IP address (send it privately if you have privacy concerns)
>>> and I'll check the logs.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>

 —peter

 On 9/13/17, 1:22 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:

> On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
>> I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
>> something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to
>> hunt
>> down the instructions.
>
> You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org
>
> You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for
> the
> public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should
> be
> able to sftp to home.a.o.
>
> Mark
>
>
>>
>> ‹peter
>>
>> On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>>
>>> Should just be:
>>>  sftp home.apache.org
>>>
>>> Hope you remember your passphrase.
>>>
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
 home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all
I
 can
 find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I
 haven't
 accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.

 I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs
app
 page
 since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more
 current.

 Thanks.
 Peter
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>> 
>

Re: home.apache.org

[Mark Thomas]

On 13/09/17 21:00, Peter Ent wrote:
> My LDAP entry at id.apache.org has a OpenPGP Public Key Primary
> Fingerprint set. I assume when I do sftp p...@home.apache.org it looks up
> 'pent' and sees the OpenPGP fingerprint, goes out to some key server and
> fetches whatever it needs.
> 
> And after all this time I still get Permission denied. Maybe that's not a
> real PGP key. I looked up PGP for the Mac and found GPG Keychain which it
> says makes OpenPGP keys. Just very confused.

OK. You are mixing up key types.

The OpenPGP is typically used for signing releases and encrypting
e-mail. It isn't used for SSH.

Separately, you should also see in id.apache.org one or more "SSH Key
(authorized keys)" line.

This is the SSH public key that corresponds to your SSH private key that
you would typically store in ~/.ssh/id_rsa
(you can be more descriptive with the filename if you want to be)

If you only have one SSH key is should 'just work'. If you have more
than one you'll need to do some additional configuration via
~/.ssh/config

Did you remember to copy across your SSH private key from you old
computer to your newer one? If not, you can either copy it now or create
a new one and replace the public SSH key stored at id.a.o

HTH,

Mark


> 
> —peter
> 
> On 9/13/17, 3:15 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:
> 
>> On 13/09/17 19:27, Peter Ent wrote:
>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>
>>> I think I've done all the right stuff. As I started to do it, I began to
>>> remember doing it once before for SSH. I've been waiting awhile and
>>> still
>>> get permission denied, so I'll just keep waiting. I'm pretty sure I sent
>>> my key to a public key server. I'll go out for coffee and I hope it
>>> works
>>> when I get back.
>>
>> That sounds like you might be mixing up OpenPGP release keys and SSH
>> keys. Anyway...
>>
>> I've checked your LDAP record and you do have a public SSH key
>> configured. If it doesn't work when you try again let me know the time
>> (UTC) and IP address (send it privately if you have privacy concerns)
>> and I'll check the logs.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>>
>>> —peter
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, 1:22 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:
>>>
 On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
> I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
> something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to
> hunt
> down the instructions.

 You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org

 You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for
 the
 public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should
 be
 able to sftp to home.a.o.

 Mark


>
> ‹peter
>
> On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>
>> Should just be:
>>  sftp home.apache.org
>>
>> Hope you remember your passphrase.
>>
>> -Alex
>>
>> On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
>>> home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I
>>> can
>>> find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I
>>> haven't
>>> accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>>>
>>> I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app
>>> page
>>> since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more
>>> current.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Peter
>>
>

>>>
>>
> 

Re: home.apache.org

[Peter Ent]

My LDAP entry at id.apache.org has a OpenPGP Public Key Primary
Fingerprint set. I assume when I do sftp p...@home.apache.org it looks up
'pent' and sees the OpenPGP fingerprint, goes out to some key server and
fetches whatever it needs.

And after all this time I still get Permission denied. Maybe that's not a
real PGP key. I looked up PGP for the Mac and found GPG Keychain which it
says makes OpenPGP keys. Just very confused.

—peter

On 9/13/17, 3:15 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:

>On 13/09/17 19:27, Peter Ent wrote:
>> Thanks, Mark.
>> 
>> I think I've done all the right stuff. As I started to do it, I began to
>> remember doing it once before for SSH. I've been waiting awhile and
>>still
>> get permission denied, so I'll just keep waiting. I'm pretty sure I sent
>> my key to a public key server. I'll go out for coffee and I hope it
>>works
>> when I get back.
>
>That sounds like you might be mixing up OpenPGP release keys and SSH
>keys. Anyway...
>
>I've checked your LDAP record and you do have a public SSH key
>configured. If it doesn't work when you try again let me know the time
>(UTC) and IP address (send it privately if you have privacy concerns)
>and I'll check the logs.
>
>Mark
>
>
>> 
>> —peter
>> 
>> On 9/13/17, 1:22 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
 I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
 something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to
hunt
 down the instructions.
>>>
>>> You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org
>>>
>>> You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for
>>>the
>>> public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should
>>>be
>>> able to sftp to home.a.o.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>

 ‹peter

 On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:

> Should just be:
>  sftp home.apache.org
>
> Hope you remember your passphrase.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
>> home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I
>> can
>> find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I
>> haven't
>> accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>>
>> I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app
>> page
>> since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more
>> current.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Peter
>

>>>
>> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[OmPrakash Muppirala]

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Alex Harui 
wrote:

> I believe those who say that trying to sell Flex or FlexJS to a client is
> difficult.
>

Not just to a client, but also for example, co-workers or managers.


>
> I don't have hard data to back this, but I've always felt that there are
> two kinds of Flex customers.  One set builds their own applications and
> thus can choose their own development technologies.  Another set builds
> applications for other people and have to complete against other
> candidates wanting to build those same applications.
>
> I believe the first set have Flex apps that need to migrate to something
> else by 2020.  I'm surprised there isn't more noise on our lists, but I
> think I'm seeing an increase in interest on our lists.  IMO, these are the
> customers it will be easier for us to win over since they have an existing
> code base in ActionScript and already buy into the fundamentals of Flex.
> I think there will be enough of these customers to keep us busy polishing
> the components.
>

Unless these customers have never heard about FlexJS.  Or they heard about
it and assumed it was just some Flex-something that is Flash based.
Or folks have already started to move to React or Angular.  Anything that
is called Flex-something gets filtered out in discussions.



>
> But I think the only question we want answered before the board meeting is
> whether the project name FlexJS is going to make it hard to build a brand
> with a different name to considered against the other JS frameworks.  I
> think it won't.  Carlos and Om, I feel like you haven't answered the
> question about PROJECT name.  I don't think there is anybody saying we
> shouldn't build a different brand on a different PRODUCT name later.  Do
> you feel like the PROJECT name of FlexJS is going to be a hindrance, and
> why?
>

Yes, because to people not in the know, if we say we are Apache FlexJS Bend
for example, they hear Flex-something and will get confused.

Unless we market it as Apache Bend.  Is that what you mean?

Thanks,
Om


>
> Thanks,
> -Alex
>
> On 9/13/17, 10:57 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>  wrote:
>
> >On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
> >
> >My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
> >without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
> >
> >On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
> >change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
> >
> >
> >I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
> >conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
> >
> >If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
> >technology.
> >
> >I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Om
> >
> >
> >
> >From: Alex Harui
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
> >To: dev@flex.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> >
> >Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
> >important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
> >to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
> >with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
> >
> >So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
> >think we can target a different group of customers with a different
> >PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
> >stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
> >called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
> >eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
> >PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
> >Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?
> >
> >I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
> >manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
> >manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
> >(Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
> >company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
> >a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
> >question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
> >will be a hindrance to building that brand.
> >
> >Thoughts?
> >-Alex
> >
> >On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
> >
> >>Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
> >>concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
> >>something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
> >>be concerned about right now.
> >>
> >>I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
> >>
> >>Harbs
> >>
> >>> On Sep 13, 

Re: home.apache.org

[Mark Thomas]

On 13/09/17 19:27, Peter Ent wrote:
> Thanks, Mark.
> 
> I think I've done all the right stuff. As I started to do it, I began to
> remember doing it once before for SSH. I've been waiting awhile and still
> get permission denied, so I'll just keep waiting. I'm pretty sure I sent
> my key to a public key server. I'll go out for coffee and I hope it works
> when I get back.

That sounds like you might be mixing up OpenPGP release keys and SSH
keys. Anyway...

I've checked your LDAP record and you do have a public SSH key
configured. If it doesn't work when you try again let me know the time
(UTC) and IP address (send it privately if you have privacy concerns)
and I'll check the logs.

Mark


> 
> —peter
> 
> On 9/13/17, 1:22 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:
> 
>> On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
>>> I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
>>> something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to hunt
>>> down the instructions.
>>
>> You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org
>>
>> You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for the
>> public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should be
>> able to sftp to home.a.o.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ‹peter
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>>>
 Should just be:
  sftp home.apache.org

 Hope you remember your passphrase.

 -Alex

 On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
> home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I
> can
> find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I
> haven't
> accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>
> I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app
> page
> since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more
> current.
>
> Thanks.
> Peter

>>>
>>
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> I believe those who say that trying to sell Flex or FlexJS to a client is
> difficult.
> 
> I don't have hard data to back this, but I've always felt that there are
> two kinds of Flex customers.  One set builds their own applications and
> thus can choose their own development technologies.  Another set builds
> applications for other people and have to complete against other
> candidates wanting to build those same applications.

I think you are drawing an arbitrary line here. For success the project needs 
to be able to have a product that independent contractors and corporate 
developers can use and trust to be there for them while meeting inner source 
standards.

I truly believe that there is only time for one more project reset.

I’m inclined to think that if you want to stick with FlexJS then just create a 
new mailing list called flexjs-us...@flex.apache.org. Then build FlexJS until 
you reach the magical place of wanting to extend to a non-JS framework.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> I believe the first set have Flex apps that need to migrate to something
> else by 2020.  I'm surprised there isn't more noise on our lists, but I
> think I'm seeing an increase in interest on our lists.  IMO, these are the
> customers it will be easier for us to win over since they have an existing
> code base in ActionScript and already buy into the fundamentals of Flex.
> I think there will be enough of these customers to keep us busy polishing
> the components.
> 
> Gaining traction in the second set is harder.  I am hopeful that success
> and lessons learned serving the first set will get us to the point where
> we are truly ready to compare our code against the other frameworks out
> there.  And we might need a different brand name.  You don't have to wait,
> you can try to promote our code in that arena now, but I am concerned that
> we have too many rough edges right now.  Our doc isn't up to date and
> doesn't look great.  And we need more doc.  I'll be trying to get the doc
> build working today, and we need to get this working better for both sets
> of customers and more volunteers are welcome to help.
> 
> But I think the only question we want answered before the board meeting is
> whether the project name FlexJS is going to make it hard to build a brand
> with a different name to considered against the other JS frameworks.  I
> think it won't.  Carlos and Om, I feel like you haven't answered the
> question about PROJECT name.  I don't think there is anybody saying we
> shouldn't build a different brand on a different PRODUCT name later.  Do
> you feel like the PROJECT name of FlexJS is going to be a hindrance, and
> why?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 10:57 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
>> 
>> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
>> without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
>> 
>> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
>> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
>> conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
>> 
>> If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
>> technology.
>> 
>> I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Alex Harui
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>> 
>> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
>> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
>> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
>> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
>> 
>> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
>> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
>> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
>> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
>> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
>> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
>> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
>> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?
>> 
>> I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
>> manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
>> manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
>> (Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
>> company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Alex Harui]

I believe those who say that trying to sell Flex or FlexJS to a client is
difficult.

I don't have hard data to back this, but I've always felt that there are
two kinds of Flex customers.  One set builds their own applications and
thus can choose their own development technologies.  Another set builds
applications for other people and have to complete against other
candidates wanting to build those same applications.

I believe the first set have Flex apps that need to migrate to something
else by 2020.  I'm surprised there isn't more noise on our lists, but I
think I'm seeing an increase in interest on our lists.  IMO, these are the
customers it will be easier for us to win over since they have an existing
code base in ActionScript and already buy into the fundamentals of Flex.
I think there will be enough of these customers to keep us busy polishing
the components.

Gaining traction in the second set is harder.  I am hopeful that success
and lessons learned serving the first set will get us to the point where
we are truly ready to compare our code against the other frameworks out
there.  And we might need a different brand name.  You don't have to wait,
you can try to promote our code in that arena now, but I am concerned that
we have too many rough edges right now.  Our doc isn't up to date and
doesn't look great.  And we need more doc.  I'll be trying to get the doc
build working today, and we need to get this working better for both sets
of customers and more volunteers are welcome to help.

But I think the only question we want answered before the board meeting is
whether the project name FlexJS is going to make it hard to build a brand
with a different name to considered against the other JS frameworks.  I
think it won't.  Carlos and Om, I feel like you haven't answered the
question about PROJECT name.  I don't think there is anybody saying we
shouldn't build a different brand on a different PRODUCT name later.  Do
you feel like the PROJECT name of FlexJS is going to be a hindrance, and
why?

Thanks,
-Alex

On 9/13/17, 10:57 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
 wrote:

>On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
>
>My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
>without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
>
>On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
>change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
>
>
>I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
>conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
>
>If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
>technology.
>
>I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
>
>Thanks,
>Om
>
>
>
>From: Alex Harui
>Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
>To: dev@flex.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>
>Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
>important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
>to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
>with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
>
>So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
>think we can target a different group of customers with a different
>PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
>stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
>called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
>eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
>PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
>Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?
>
>I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
>manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
>manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
>(Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
>company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
>a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
>question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
>will be a hindrance to building that brand.
>
>Thoughts?
>-Alex
>
>On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
>
>>Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>>concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>>something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>>be concerned about right now.
>>
>>I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>>
>>Harbs
>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>>> board.
>>

Re: home.apache.org

[Peter Ent]

Thanks, Mark.

I think I've done all the right stuff. As I started to do it, I began to
remember doing it once before for SSH. I've been waiting awhile and still
get permission denied, so I'll just keep waiting. I'm pretty sure I sent
my key to a public key server. I'll go out for coffee and I hope it works
when I get back.

—peter

On 9/13/17, 1:22 PM, "Mark Thomas"  wrote:

>On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
>> I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
>> something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to hunt
>> down the instructions.
>
>You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org
>
>You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for the
>public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should be
>able to sftp to home.a.o.
>
>Mark
>
>
>> 
>> ‹peter
>> 
>> On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Should just be:
>>>  sftp home.apache.org
>>>
>>> Hope you remember your passphrase.
>>>
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
 home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I
can
 find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I
haven't
 accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.

 I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app
page
 since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more
current.

 Thanks.
 Peter
>>>
>> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi all,

I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.

Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important in
a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get a
fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we explain
all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time, since
this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than JS!!
(If we want in future years to make it possible).

@Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for the
reason you stated, people will end reaching "FlexJS" name and will
interpret that as a joke, so no, even naming inside the project (including
vars, functions and so on...) are part of what people ends liking or
hating.

@Harbs, I said that I can put work on naming, website design and even host
the web, but for doing so I need to feel the name is the right one, and I'm
fearing that people is looking for a name that I don't think could give us
some opportunity to fight with the great ones, since React or Dart, seems
to me that has some sounding or power behind, but Beads, or Strand does not
mean anything outside our own understanding for what we know it means in
our architecture. But we should not decide a name based in that kind of
things since we will end having something that in the mainstream does not
has the needs to evocate a great and powerful technology to people out
there.

I think the name change could involve at least two of us :

- 1 to make changes in code (repos, git,etc...
- 1 to make more marketing things: logo, website, etc..

I offer my work for the second, my only condition is that I need to believe
in the final name we choose, and since we are a community, this must be
elected by all of us, and we could work in it in the same manner : if
people believe in it, people will work in it. I have clear that I will work
if the final community decision has a strong base and I can envision that
the effort will push the tech to a great place (or at least has options to
be fighting in the mainstream of actual techs like Angular, React, and
others)

@Om, thanks, I think you like me and others I know that has live that
situation, knows perfectly how devaluated is  the Flex name in actual
times, so is crucial for us to change it





2017-09-13 19:57 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala :

> On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
>
> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
> without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
>
> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
>
>
> I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
> conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
>
> If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
> technology.
>
> I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
>
>
> From: Alex Harui
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>
> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
>
> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?
>
> I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
> manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
> manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
> (Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
> company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
> a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
> question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
> will be a hindrance to building that brand.
>
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
>
> On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
>
> >Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
> >concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing 

RE: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[OmPrakash Muppirala]

On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:

My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.

On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.


I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
conversation with peers is proving to be hard.

If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
technology.

I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.

Thanks,
Om



From: Alex Harui
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
with names that do not match the PROJECT name.

So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
think we can target a different group of customers with a different
PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?

I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
(Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
will be a hindrance to building that brand.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:

>Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>be concerned about right now.
>
>I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>
>Harbs
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>wrote:
>>
>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>> board.
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Yishay Weiss  wrote:
> 
> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products without 
> the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
> 
> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name 
> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.

Well we have to deal with a new logo and website and various overhead 
regardless of whether the new project is FlexJS or Fubar.

> 
> From: Alex Harui
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> 
> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
> 
> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?

Most Projects == Product initially

> 
> I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
> manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
> manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
> (Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
> company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
> a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
> question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
> will be a hindrance to building that brand.

This analogy is more along the lines of Apache as Campbells/Clorox and 
Pepperidge Farm as Apache Flex and Campbells Soups as Apache HTTPD. Apache 
FlexJS could be gluten free diabetic bread by say Healthy Pepperidge Farm. 
Would Pepperidge Farm consumers be confused by the Brand change and wonder why?

If we are trying to separate cleanly from Flex that argues for a new project 
name with Flex transferring the FlexJS product to the new project.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
> 
>> Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>> concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>> something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>> be concerned about right now.
>> 
>> I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>>> board.
>> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: home.apache.org

[Mark Thomas]

On 13/09/2017 18:05, Peter Ent wrote:
> I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
> something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to hunt
> down the instructions.

You should be able to set up your key through id.apache.org

You then need to allow enough time (I think it is about an hour) for the
public key to sync to the servers you have access to. Then you should be
able to sftp to home.a.o.

Mark


> 
> ‹peter
> 
> On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
> 
>> Should just be:
>>  sftp home.apache.org
>>
>> Hope you remember your passphrase.
>>
>> -Alex
>>
>> On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
>>> home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I can
>>> find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I haven't
>>> accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>>>
>>> I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app page
>>> since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more current.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Peter
>>
> 

Re: home.apache.org

[Peter Ent]

I get permission denied (public key). I remember having to set up
something for the old people site (I think) and have been trying to hunt
down the instructions.

‹peter

On 9/13/17, 12:49 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:

>Should just be:
>  sftp home.apache.org
>
>Hope you remember your passphrase.
>
>-Alex
>
>On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
>>home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I can
>>find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I haven't
>>accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>>
>>I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app page
>>since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more current.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Peter
>

Re: home.apache.org

[Alex Harui]

Should just be:
  sftp home.apache.org

Hope you remember your passphrase.

-Alex

On 9/13/17, 9:16 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your
>home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I can
>find are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I haven't
>accessed my home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.
>
>I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app page
>since Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more current.
>
>Thanks.
>Peter

Re: [FlexJS][Installer] Future packaging of FlexJS releases

[Alex Harui]

OK, good to know it works for other people.

I've been trying to adjust the build scripts to create this package
automatically.  The current problem I'm wrestling with is in the Flash
Builder launch configs.  The launch configs are used by Flash Builder to
update a new Flex project with a valid FlexJS application template.  Flash
Builder currently can't create a new FlexJS project with the right
template.  We also use them as a convenience for launching Cordova apps.

Right now, the Installer (actually the Ant script) modifies the launch
configs to replace a token in the scripts with the installation folder.
Launch configs are copied from the installation folder to the workspace
folder so when you launch them, they have lost where they have been copied
from so it can't find other files in the SDK, which is why the installer
replaces a token to point to the SDK folder.

Then, related, as we were preparing our quarterly board report, some PMC
members asked how many FlexJS downloads there have been.  Consider that if
we distribute this non-Adobe packaging as a zip file on Apache mirrors and
it becomes popular, it will totally skew our download statistics because
we can't get good numbers of downloads from the mirrors and even then, it
can be copied internally.

So, launch scripts that work out of the box and good download analytics
are two things we lose by going with this new packaging.  Many folks don't
use Flash Builder so requiring Flash Builder customers to run some script
to update the launch configs may be a reasonable solution.  But it would
be a bummer to lose track of successful installs.

So, we could go back to using the Installer to install this new package.
The install should go fast and won't ask for accepting Adobe licenses.  Or
we could try to create something that the Installer runs after you unpack
the zip.  Maybe leave a file in the zip that the compiler knows about and
after that file gets 30 days old it asks you to run the Installer to
'register' your SDK and that will fix up the launch configs and hit our
analytics.  We could have the compiler try to hit the analytics, but I
don't want to go down that road right now.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/10/17, 8:10 AM, "PKumar"  wrote:

>after removing that line, everything  is fine. Thanks
>
>
>
>--
>Sent from: 
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-fle
>x-development.247.n4.nabble.com%2F=02%7C01%7C%7Cc9f4a45d0efb475da
>70208d4f85e1630%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6364065303683
>06769=f%2Bl76Ga%2F%2BjXuaGZlzHiPnoZYP8po1epdVszWY8IJyjg%3D=
>0

RE: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Yishay Weiss]

My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products without 
the JS suffix that’s fine with me.

On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name 
change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.

From: Alex Harui
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
with names that do not match the PROJECT name.

So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
think we can target a different group of customers with a different
PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?

I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
(Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
will be a hindrance to building that brand.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:

>Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>be concerned about right now.
>
>I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>
>Harbs
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>wrote:
>>
>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>> board.
>

home.apache.org

[Peter Ent]

Hi,

Does anyone have the instructions on how to set up access to your 
home.apache.org space? I've looked on the apache.org site and all I can find 
are instructions about the old people.apache.org. I guess I haven't accessed my 
home.apache.org since I set up my newer computer.

I'm going to update my ASDocs info to point to our FlexJS ASDocs app page since 
Google is pointing to my old ASDoc and it needs to be more current.

Thanks.
Peter

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Alex Harui]

Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
with names that do not match the PROJECT name.

So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
think we can target a different group of customers with a different
PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?

I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
(Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
will be a hindrance to building that brand.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:

>Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>be concerned about right now.
>
>I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>
>Harbs
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>wrote:
>> 
>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>> board. 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Harbs]

Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a concern. 
Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into something else in 
the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to be concerned about right 
now.

I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.

Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki  wrote:
> 
> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
> board. 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
board. Maybe including link with the vote where we decide whether we would
like to change the name or not can be helpful to start talk about the
proposal.

If no one oppose I could start soon with [VOTE] Should we change name of
forked project?

If someone would be +1 should propose some names.

Later we could start VOTE thread with all names proposition - in order to
vote on specific one.

Thoughts ?

Thanks,
Piotr



2017-09-13 12:30 GMT+02:00 Harbs :

> I’m fine with voting now. I think the reasons for and against have more or
> less been addressed. The only point which has not really been addressed was
> Alex’s question.
>
> Personally I don’t think the project name is really a concern as far as
> some unknown direction the project might take. If it develops to a point
> where the JS suffix is a problem, we can try and figure out the answer to
> that question at that time.
>
> Thanks,
> Harbs
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Kessler CTR Mark J <
> mark.kessler@usmc.mil> wrote:
> >
> > Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would
> need a discussion thread for the new name.
> >
> >
> > -Mark K
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
> > To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> >
> > Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.
> >
> > I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
> > have consensus or not.
> >
> > If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
> > one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
> > Dave what do you think about that ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> >
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Harbs]

I’m fine with voting now. I think the reasons for and against have more or less 
been addressed. The only point which has not really been addressed was Alex’s 
question.

Personally I don’t think the project name is really a concern as far as some 
unknown direction the project might take. If it develops to a point where the 
JS suffix is a problem, we can try and figure out the answer to that question 
at that time.

Thanks,
Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Kessler CTR Mark J  
> wrote:
> 
> Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would need a 
> discussion thread for the new name.
> 
> 
> -Mark K
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> 
> Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.
> 
> I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
> have consensus or not.
> 
> If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
> one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
> Dave what do you think about that ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Kessler CTR Mark J]

Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would need a 
discussion thread for the new name.


-Mark K


-Original Message-
From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.

I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
have consensus or not.

If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
Dave what do you think about that ?

Thanks,
Piotr

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.

I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
have consensus or not.

If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
Dave what do you think about that ?

Thanks,
Piotr


2017-09-13 12:01 GMT+02:00 Kessler CTR Mark J :

> One thing we need to do is stick with whatever name we come up with.
> There is a lot of time and money involved in renaming stuff.  Not only
> internally for our own repo's, sites, JIRA, wikies... but also for things
> like the IDE makes or people building 3rd libraries from it.
>
> -Mark K
>



-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Kessler CTR Mark J]

One thing we need to do is stick with whatever name we come up with.  There is 
a lot of time and money involved in renaming stuff.  Not only internally for 
our own repo's, sites, JIRA, wikies... but also for things like the IDE makes 
or people building 3rd libraries from it.

-Mark K

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Piotr Zarzycki]

I got several questions like Harbs mention and people instantly know what
is going on when I said them that is the new framework right after Flex.

Piotr

2017-09-13 10:53 GMT+02:00 Harbs :

> To me the question is how will people react if you tell them you’re doing
> it in FlexJS vs. FooJS. I think in either case you will get a response of
> “what’s that”.
>
> What’s going to get a better explanation? “I’m doing it in a relatively
> unknown framework but one I like.” Or “I’m doing it in a new framework
> built from the ground up optimized for Javascript built on the concepts
> which made Flex successful in its time.”
>
> To me, the latter response sounds more compelling.
>
> Hopefully FlexJS will get enough traction that it will become known for
> its own strengths and this point will become moot.
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Carlos Rovira 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > 2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It
> would
> >> make your argument more persuasive.
> >>
> >>
> > There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
> > expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
> > with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from
> 2008.
> > The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
> > almost no projects in Flex done today.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
> >> Vue,
> >>> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play
> well
> >>> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
> >>
> >> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for
> its
> > various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
> > icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
> > macromedia (that was in fact Royale)
> >
> > I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would
> express
> > our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> >>> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
> >> considered
> >>> in the mainstream.
> >>>
> >>> Just my 2
> >>
> >> More than that ;-)
> >>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
>
>


-- 

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Harbs]

To me the question is how will people react if you tell them you’re doing it in 
FlexJS vs. FooJS. I think in either case you will get a response of “what’s 
that”.

What’s going to get a better explanation? “I’m doing it in a relatively unknown 
framework but one I like.” Or “I’m doing it in a new framework built from the 
ground up optimized for Javascript built on the concepts which made Flex 
successful in its time.”

To me, the latter response sounds more compelling.

Hopefully FlexJS will get enough traction that it will become known for its own 
strengths and this point will become moot.

Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Carlos Rovira  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> 2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would
>> make your argument more persuasive.
>> 
>> 
> There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
> expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
> with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from 2008.
> The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
> almost no projects in Flex done today.
> 
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
>> Vue,
>>> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
>>> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
>> 
>> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
>> 
> 
> Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for its
> various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
> icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
> macromedia (that was in fact Royale)
> 
> I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would express
> our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
>>> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
>> considered
>>> in the mainstream.
>>> 
>>> Just my 2
>> 
>> More than that ;-)
>> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Carlos
> 
> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi Dave,

2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher :

>
>
> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would
> make your argument more persuasive.
>
>
There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from 2008.
The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
almost no projects in Flex done today.



> >
> > In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
> Vue,
> > Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
> > our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
>
> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
>

Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for its
various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
macromedia (that was in fact Royale)

I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would express
our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.


> >
> > In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> > want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
> considered
> > in the mainstream.
> >
> > Just my 2
>
> More than that ;-)
>

Thanks

Carlos


>
>

Re: [FLEX JS] How to import mx.managers.PopUpManager?

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Hi :),

I think there is great answer to your question on users list posted today
[1].

[1]
http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/How-To-Start-Converting-A-Browser-Project-to-FlexJS-td15946.html

Thanks,
Piotr

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 08:36 m_awais  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was wondering is there any official FLEX JS website, that states all the
> details of classes and packages FLEX JS currently have. Like Apache Flex
> Website https://flex.apache.org/asdoc/ which lists all the packages and
> classes of apache flex and their details.
>
> I know one website https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/FlexJS
> it only lists the introduction to all components.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/
>

Re: [FLEX JS] How to import mx.managers.PopUpManager?

[m_awais]

Hi,

I was wondering is there any official FLEX JS website, that states all the
details of classes and packages FLEX JS currently have. Like Apache Flex
Website https://flex.apache.org/asdoc/ which lists all the packages and
classes of apache flex and their details.

I know one website https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/FlexJS
it only lists the introduction to all components.

Thanks.



--
Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/