Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Pavel, Pavel Janík ha scritto: You miss one important point: l10n project is in charge of providing a working method and workflow fo the members to do translations. Yes, there are many teams already translating OOo - have a look at the randomly chosen localize.sdf file. So a working method for most of them already exists. The problem is there for Sun languages. Sun have chosen Pootle to be used for them. It was not me, it was not l10n project. IMHO this is only part of the truth. It's not Sun that has chosen Pootle. There have been many teams before Sun languages already usiong Pootle to translate OOo. On IRC meetings I remember that it was agreed to use one Pootle server to host OOo. And again it was not only Sun to decide to have it hosted on the sunvirtuallab. As lead of the OOo project I am not saying that Pootle is the only way to translate OOo. The Pootle server is not available to the Sun languages only. ... and support is offeredf for all languages on Pootle and outside of it. I don't think that the problem is for Sun languages only. I would appreciate if we could move this discussion and find an agreement on our next l10n IRC meeting - which will be in April. Thanks, Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 13.3.2008, at 8:49, André Schnabel wrote: - Pootle is unusable for some (e.g. you can't use it to define new locale XML file, you can't change the source code in l10n related stuff with it, or you simply use different translation method or translate OOo) You miss one important point: l10n project is in charge of providing a working method and workflow fo the members to do translations. So - if pootle is a method for translation that is adviced to use, I *is* a l10n related discussion. I almost forgot - did I ever said that it is not l10n related discussion? I surely never did! It is! But it is not relevant to all l10n readers, thus I proposed e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ML, ie. mailing list inside the l10n project. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
You miss one important point: l10n project is in charge of providing a working method and workflow fo the members to do translations. Yes, there are many teams already translating OOo - have a look at the randomly chosen localize.sdf file. So a working method for most of them already exists. The problem is there for Sun languages. Sun have chosen Pootle to be used for them. It was not me, it was not l10n project. So - if pootle is a method for translation that is adviced to use, I *is* a l10n related discussion. Yes. If. Did I ever adviced anyone to use Pootle? ;-) Furthermore - It should be in your focus as l10n Co-Lead, that some teams need to use pootle (as this is the only way their contributions get accepted). So please work on the issues to be resolved - or on providing another workflow. You would not believe me, but I worked on it right from my first Hamburg visit 8) -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Pavel, Pavel Janík schrieb: No. It is not about skills of people using it. The problem is as follows: - we think that Pootle could be usefull for some teams - Pootle is unusable for some (e.g. you can't use it to define new locale XML file, you can't change the source code in l10n related stuff with it, or you simply use different translation method or translate OOo) You miss one important point: l10n project is in charge of providing a working method and workflow fo the members to do translations. So - if pootle is a method for translation that is adviced to use, I *is* a l10n related discussion. Furthermore - It should be in your focus as l10n Co-Lead, that some teams need to use pootle (as this is the only way their contributions get accepted). So please work on the issues to be resolved - or on providing another workflow. - I do not want people for whom Pootle is unusable to be forced to spend their time on reading Pootle related messages (even if there is only one per month!) Repeat after me: pootle translation method is not l10n, it is one method from several translation methods and translation is subset of l10n. And according to the proposed guidelines of workflow, there have to be some communication from the maintainers of pootle to their users. This communication have caused a lot of questions in the past (and you do not see them all - some went directly in my mailbox). Maybe this was sent to you, as people expect that you as a Co-Lead should take care about it? André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Jean-Christophe, On 13.3.2008, at 7:23, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: On 13 mars 08, at 15:15, Pavel Janík wrote: Repeat after me: [...] I am not sure this is the proper way to address fellow list members. but it works when people are not able to distinguish that others can do different things at the same place, even things that are more appropriate for that place. Sorry, but this is classic discussion I have had in the past 20 years I'm on the Internet. And it is normal progress, not loose of someone. When some part of the project (one of the translation methods used for translating OpenOffice.org - Pootle - in our case) evolves and can slow down others (e.g. me, because I can't use Pootle), it is divided and new list is created. This is normal. This is nothing bad. This is how it works in normal thinking communities. The reason is simple: with a new list, pootle users can communicate without feeling bad (e.g. Andre didn't want to send his problems here because he thought he will be asked - by me, BTW - to not ask the same question again and again). With the new list, old users of [EMAIL PROTECTED] who do not use pootle, will have less mails to read. With the new list, pootle users can join the new list and then merge [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] into one folder - no change for them. With the new list, there is a new archive where users can search problems/ questions by the users of the same stuff. So: only positives. This is the reason why [EMAIL PROTECTED] was divided into projects. This is the reason why [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't exist. Do you read [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why not? You are not interested in all l10n issues? -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 13 mars 08, at 15:15, Pavel Janík wrote: Repeat after me: [...] I am not sure this is the proper way to address fellow list members. Why can't you accept that your proposal was not worded well enough to gather enough support ? Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 10.3.2008, at 20:26, Olivier Hallot wrote: -1. Pootle-OO related traffic here expect to slow as skills get built. No. It is not about skills of people using it. The problem is as follows: - we think that Pootle could be usefull for some teams - Pootle is unusable for some (e.g. you can't use it to define new locale XML file, you can't change the source code in l10n related stuff with it, or you simply use different translation method or translate OOo) - I do not want people for whom Pootle is unusable to be forced to spend their time on reading Pootle related messages (even if there is only one per month!) Repeat after me: pootle translation method is not l10n, it is one method from several translation methods and translation is subset of l10n. And according to the proposed guidelines of workflow, there have to be some communication from the maintainers of pootle to their users. This communication have caused a lot of questions in the past (and you do not see them all - some went directly in my mailbox). -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Olivier, On Monday, 2008-03-10 16:26:58 -0300, Olivier Hallot wrote: > -1. > > Pootle-OO related traffic here expect to slow as skills get built. _If_ that will be really the case I'm fine with not creating yet another list. However, if posts regarding general usage of Pootle not specific to OOo will continue to arrive we should re-evaluate. Eike -- OOo/SO Calc core developer. Number formatter stricken i18n transpositionizer. SunSign 0x87F8D412 : 2F58 5236 DB02 F335 8304 7D6C 65C9 F9B5 87F8 D412 OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't send personal mail to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] account, which I use for mailing lists only and don't read from outside Sun. Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks. pgpb7z4lupgW5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Olivier Hallot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of course, this issue raises mostly because the tools we use handles > strings loosely, and the context information is just not enough in some > cases. Besides, PO files are mostly a bunch of random strings, at best > in reverse order of the final page display in the case of the HC. > This was fixed 3 years ago, in pre-2.0 devopment cycle, when you look at pot-file with text editor, strings in HC are in exact order (except snippets inserted by variables which do not disturb fluent reading of help file). Of course there are some very intelligent tools which sort strings for displaying (untranslated, then fuzzy, then translated) but anyone can select right editor for certain purpose. ;) ain - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
-1. Pootle-OO related traffic here expect to slow as skills get built. Actually I miss a list such as [EMAIL PROTECTED], where I can ask or discuss specific terms and writing style (in English) employed in OO UI and HC. Although I consider myself very skilled in OO, my translation job stumble often on low quality English text or terms employed (very subjective statement). Going back and forth from the translation tool and the application is taking more time that I originally thought. I feel obliged do this for the sake of accuracy and quality and I think one cannot translate OO whithout a deep knowledge of the set of applications. Of course, this issue raises mostly because the tools we use handles strings loosely, and the context information is just not enough in some cases. Besides, PO files are mostly a bunch of random strings, at best in reverse order of the final page display in the case of the HC. Since IMHO there are so many terms to refine and room for improvement, I believe we should consider a separate list. Olivier (sorry to hijack this thread) Rafaella Braconi escreveu: Hi Pavel, Pavel Janík ha scritto: Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the list where localization issues should be discussed. We also discuss translation related issues here. We also discuss different translation methods here. we also discuss particular instances of different translation methods here. Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: - pootle in connection with OOo could be discussed - Sun's pootle instance and its issues could be discussed (like nonstandard port, slowness, schedules of updates, help to its users etc.) and this list would remain for general l10n and general translation issues common to all translation methods used. The current status unfortunately slows down teams who do not or can't use Pootle and Sun's Pootle instance in particular. -1 The high traffic on this list is the evidence that the contributors working on translation are communicating to each other, sharing best practices and working together to resolve issues. The Localization project is a live and interactive project which joins people across culture. The purely Pootle discussions are really far from the majority of the postings in this mailing list. However, I do agree that all technical Pootle related questions should be addresses to a more appropriate list. The list I am talking about is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] which can be subscribed at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle. I am not in favor or creating a new list for Pootle OpenOffice.org users, because a) we can and should move Pootle specific and technical discussion to the above list and b) we can add *Pootle:* in the subject line when it is really inevitable to avoid a posting about Pootle. I am not in favor of creating an additional mailing list every time we start using a new tool or we work on a new initiative. Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Olivier Hallot Scinergy Consulting Tel (021) 2224-3224, (021) 8822-8812 Rio de Janeiro, Brasil http://www.scinergy.com.br OpenOffice.org L10N project leader for Brazil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Pavel, Pavel Janík schrieb: The current pootle installation at sun is (to me) almost non-usable and I never agreed to use it (unfortunately I was more or lesse forced to do so). It is very sad to hear that you do not share your problems with other users of the same instance of Pootle and only use sentences like this. Maybe when you express what issue you have with this particular instance of Pootle, it would be solved. well - my problems are already mentioned by other people. Such as not able to logon during office hrs, extremely slow web frontend, not able to identify what needs to be translated, when working offline, no easy way to review other people's changes ... I'd guess you was the first one to stop me, if I always send a mail - "yes I have the same problem" :) André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 9.3.2008, at 22:23, André Schnabel wrote: Hi, Pavel Janík schrieb: Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: -1 rather go on and get the problems solved instead of moving them to another mailing list. Sad, to see two Co-Leads here at the list, that want to move away the discussion about problems within the project. Naaah, typical Andre ;-) We do not want problems to be moved, but the discussion to be moved to special list where only people who ARE interested in both problems and processes have to read all mails. And not all people here are interested in both problems and processes around pootle. As pootle is only one of the translation method, all people who use kbabel, poedit, Entrans, Emacs' po-mode, Excel or joe etc. are not the primary target of these discussions. The current pootle installation at sun is (to me) almost non-usable and I never agreed to use it (unfortunately I was more or lesse forced to do so). It is very sad to hear that you do not share your problems with other users of the same instance of Pootle and only use sentences like this. Maybe when you express what issue you have with this particular instance of Pootle, it would be solved. But please DO SO in the separate list. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi, Pavel Janík schrieb: Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: -1 rather go on and get the problems solved instead of moving them to another mailing list. Sad, to see two Co-Leads here at the list, that want to move away the discussion about problems within the project. The current pootle installation at sun is (to me) almost non-usable and I never agreed to use it (unfortunately I was more or lesse forced to do so). André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 9 mars 08, at 20:44, Pavel Janík wrote: Everything the project seems to be about is to develop new processes for the actual translation, QA etc of the strings that will make OpenOffice.org multilingual. Do you mean this really? If so, then yes, the purpose of l10n project was misused already and our readers (like you) are already fooled by the amount of traffic around "new processes for the actual translation". I called it "one method of OOo translation". You call it "new process for actual translation". Pavel, I don't think much of what has been sent to this list is not supposed to be here considering the purpose of the l10n project: L10N and I18N Project The major target of the L10N and I18N project is to provide tools and workflows for localization (l10n) and internationalization (i18n). Whereas the focus of the localization is more on translation and l10n testing, the focus of internationalization is on the functionality of the product that need to be internationalized. Everything I read here is about tools and workflows for the localization of OOo. Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Everything the project seems to be about is to develop new processes for the actual translation, QA etc of the strings that will make OpenOffice.org multilingual. Do you mean this really? If so, then yes, the purpose of l10n project was misused already and our readers (like you) are already fooled by the amount of traffic around "new processes for the actual translation". I called it "one method of OOo translation". You call it "new process for actual translation". -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 9 mars 08, at 20:10, Rail Aliev wrote: But in general case, translation issues can be separated from general l10n issues. I don't remember seeing any translation issues addressed here. All the translation issues are addressed in the NLP respective translation lists. If I asked you to specify the threads that you consider belong to "translation" and the ones you consider belong to "localisation" it is because I don't see anything about translation on this list. Hence, I don't see the need to split this list, even less so with your proposal than with the previous "pootle only" proposal. Now, if you mean by "localisation" (including i18n) the actual coding of OpenOffice.org so that it supports various locales in various ways, then yes, you have a point. Is it what you are talking about ? Do you mean that you want this list to be a list of coders who modify OpenOffice.org's code so that it is better at dealing with various locales ? But then, such activity is not exactly advertised on the l10n project page: http://l10n.openoffice.org/ Everything the project seems to be about is to develop new processes for the actual translation, QA etc of the strings that will make OpenOffice.org multilingual. So, what should be moved to another list and what should stay ? (no need to Cc me, I am already here) Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Sunday 09 March 2008 12:33:20 Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
> Could you make a list of the recent threads and classify them in
> either category so that the purpose of each list is clearer ? Because
> to me, "everything about localization" includes translation.
There is no need to specify such threads. We have one global ML for all issues
related to L10N and I18N and nobody cares about strict separation. But in
general case, translation issues can be separated from general l10n issues.
Sure, "everything about localization" includes translation, but think l10n as
a superset and translation as its subset. It's some kind of refactoring of
huge architecture. Don't let huge become bloat. :)
Of course, most of us will subscribe to both of the lists (including myself),
but there are people who doesn't have to read messages about translation
process but they want to participate in global localization and
internationalization tasks. Maybe someday we want to separate l10n and i18n,
and it is normal evolutionary process.
--
Best regards,
Rail Aliev
http://{ru,tr}.openoffice.org
Learn to pause -- or nothing worthwhile can catch up to you.
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Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
dev@l10n.openoffice.org General purpose L10N list. Here we discuss everything about L10N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] These list can be merged as one list where we can discuss translation specific things. Could you make a list of the recent threads and classify them in either category so that the purpose of each list is clearer ? Because to me, "everything about localization" includes translation. Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Sunday 09 March 2008 11:47:26 Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
> On 9 mars 08, at 16:15, Rail Aliev wrote:
> > "Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > mailing list."
>
> The purpose of which would be ?
>
> dev@l10n.openoffice.org
General purpose L10N list. Here we discuss everything about L10N.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
These list can be merged as one list where we can discuss translation specific
things.
The main idea to decrease the traffic on dev list (see Eike's email) and
increase our productivity. You can subscribe to both of the lists and there
will be no changes.
--
Best regards,
Rail Aliev
http://{ru,tr}.openoffice.org
Seeing that death, a necessary end,
Will come when it will come.
-- William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
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Re: [l10n-dev] Entrans (Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list)
Hello, +1 from this Entrans user. Do you really use Entrans for translation OpenOffice.org? Can you share more details with us? You experiences with it etc.? Since we started off with Entrans for GNOME, etc... and built a reasonably good translation memory it was a natural choice to use it for OO too. Of course, some of the processes that are pootle, etc specific need to be modified for entrans. Till then, we are stuck with manual work. Regards, -- Vikram Vincent +91 9448810822 http://www.swatantra.org http://translate.swatantra.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 9 mars 08, at 16:15, Rail Aliev wrote: "Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list." The purpose of which would be ? dev@l10n.openoffice.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] What would be the distinctive use of each one of those lists ? Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Saturday 08 March 2008 00:29:22 Rafaella Braconi wrote:
> Hi Rail,
>
> Rail Aliev ha scritto:
> > On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote:
> >> Thus I'd like to propose the setup of
> >> special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where:
> >
> > We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we
> > have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic.
> >
> > +1
>
> There is not need to create an OpenOffice.org Pootle list when there is
> already [EMAIL PROTECTED] which can be subscribed
> at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle.
OK, what about to rephrase Pavel's proposal?
"Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list."
--
Best regards,
Rail Aliev
http://{ru,tr}.openoffice.org
Be free and open and breezy! Enjoy! Things won't get any better so
get used to it.
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[l10n-dev] Entrans (Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list)
We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. +1 +1 from this Entrans user. Do you really use Entrans for translation OpenOffice.org? Can you share more details with us? You experiences with it etc.? Thanks. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
There is not need to create an OpenOffice.org Pootle list when there is already [EMAIL PROTECTED] which can be subscribed at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ translate-pootle. But we really are not talking about generic pootle discussion. It of course should be there. There is no reason to argument with this. We are talking about: - how to upload? - why different port? - updates on Sun' pootle - slowness of Sun's pootle - deadlines for "handover" etc. like discussions that *ARE* connected to OOo (because some - NOT ALL - translation teams use pootle), but are of no interest to all people at [EMAIL PROTECTED], but only to those, who are interested in translation of OOo *AND* use this particular method of OpenOffice.org translation. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
and this list would remain for general l10n and general translation issues common to all translation methods used. The current status unfortunately slows down teams who do not or can't use Pootle and Sun's Pootle instance in particular. -1 ... The purely Pootle discussions are really far from the majority of the postings in this mailing list. Rafaella, you really think this is still true? -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Ain, Ain Vagula ha scritto: No, present situation creates confusion. Every translation deadline half of teams mess up Pootle dates and On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7 mars 08, at 17:37, Rail Aliev wrote: > On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: >> Thus I'd like to propose the setup of >> special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: > > We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list > if we have > a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. > > +1 I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter- related. -1 No, present situation creates confusion. Every translation deadline half of teams mess up Pootle dates and i10n dates and ask strange questions over all communication channels. +1 Redundant questions on translation schedule and deadlines are inevitable with or without Pootle, with and without wikis gathering such information Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Jean-Christophe Helary ha scritto: On 7 mars 08, at 17:37, Rail Aliev wrote: On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. +1 I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter-related. -1 I prefectly agree with you, JC. Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Rail, Rail Aliev ha scritto: On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. +1 There is not need to create an OpenOffice.org Pootle list when there is already [EMAIL PROTECTED] which can be subscribed at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle. Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Pavel, Pavel Janík ha scritto: Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the list where localization issues should be discussed. We also discuss translation related issues here. We also discuss different translation methods here. we also discuss particular instances of different translation methods here. Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: - pootle in connection with OOo could be discussed - Sun's pootle instance and its issues could be discussed (like nonstandard port, slowness, schedules of updates, help to its users etc.) and this list would remain for general l10n and general translation issues common to all translation methods used. The current status unfortunately slows down teams who do not or can't use Pootle and Sun's Pootle instance in particular. -1 The high traffic on this list is the evidence that the contributors working on translation are communicating to each other, sharing best practices and working together to resolve issues. The Localization project is a live and interactive project which joins people across culture. The purely Pootle discussions are really far from the majority of the postings in this mailing list. However, I do agree that all technical Pootle related questions should be addresses to a more appropriate list. The list I am talking about is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] which can be subscribed at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle. I am not in favor or creating a new list for Pootle OpenOffice.org users, because a) we can and should move Pootle specific and technical discussion to the above list and b) we can add *Pootle:* in the subject line when it is really inevitable to avoid a posting about Pootle. I am not in favor of creating an additional mailing list every time we start using a new tool or we work on a new initiative. Rafaella - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Eike Rathke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Pavel, > > > On Friday, 2008-03-07 09:30:31 +0100, Pavel Janík wrote: > > > Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of > > pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of > > traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL > PROTECTED] > > mailing list > > +1 > > I keep hitting Ctrl-R (mark the current thread as read) on this list now > on every subject that looks like pootle and chances that I'll miss > something important that way are much higher. By chance I did not miss > this thread though ;-) > > Eike > To be clear, people can have problems with tool (in this case Pootle, OmegaT) or with translatable content. About content, about terms, about organization, this here is the right place. Some of us use for translation Emacs, some KBabel, some poEdit, I switched month ago from KBabel to LoKalize for example and have/had my own problems ;) I never had a crazy idea to start whining just here that KBabel double-click behaviour is terrific and mouse scrolling does not scroll to next message in LoKalize, or catalogmanager svn-support is fixed in 3.5.7 by my team-mate. :P Right is to keep tool problems in particular tool communication channels to avoid that some information that may be useful for developers, get lost. There is a Pootle/toolkit developers list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and sure there is a list out there for infrastructure server problems. And not everyone needs to be subscribed... I'm subscribed to translate-devel, because I use the toolkit on my own and not to some infrastructure lists because irc shouts 'hey this damn (your-service-here) is down again' work very well. Anyways, I'm afraid too about creating new lists without clear target. This can lead to a nightmare when lists start multiply by itself without human interaction (ever read 'Tin Men'?). But this not the case. In this case Pootle/oo.o have a clear common part of interests and many interested users, which deserve own mailing list. ain
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi Pavel, On Friday, 2008-03-07 09:30:31 +0100, Pavel Janík wrote: > Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of > pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of > traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] > mailing list +1 I keep hitting Ctrl-R (mark the current thread as read) on this list now on every subject that looks like pootle and chances that I'll miss something important that way are much higher. By chance I did not miss this thread though ;-) Eike -- OOo/SO Calc core developer. Number formatter stricken i18n transpositionizer. SunSign 0x87F8D412 : 2F58 5236 DB02 F335 8304 7D6C 65C9 F9B5 87F8 D412 OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't send personal mail to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] account, which I use for mailing lists only and don't read from outside Sun. Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks. pgp9XlFi3HAhW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Quoting Rail Aliev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. +1 +1 from this Entrans user. Regards, Vikram Vincent - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 7 mars 08, at 18:28, Pavel Janík wrote: Or you mean how to use OmegaT in connection with Sun's Pootle instance to translate OOo? Of course that is what I mean. We discuss OOo localization here don't we ? But yes, we should at least start to think about splitting general l10n and translation related stuff... But the thing is that we don't have any "translation" discussion here. We have discussions about processes. Either processes on SUN side or processes on team sides. I don't think there is a clear cut between both. Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
No, present situation creates confusion. Every translation deadline half of teams mess up Pootle dates and On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 7 mars 08, at 17:37, Rail Aliev wrote: > > > On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: > >> Thus I'd like to propose the setup of > >> special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: > > > > We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list > > if we have > > a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. > > > > +1 > > I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter- > related. > > -1 > > No, present situation creates confusion. Every translation deadline half of teams mess up Pootle dates and i10n dates and ask strange questions over all communication channels. +1 ain
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 7.3.2008, at 9:58, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: On 7 mars 08, at 17:42, Pavel Janík wrote: I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter-related. Do you have an example of such issue? Discussing Pootle in conjunction with OmegaT. IIUIC, you mean how to use OmegaT and Pootle together? Does this belong to this list at all? Or you mean how to use OmegaT in connection with Sun's Pootle instance to translate OOo? But yes, we should at least start to think about splitting general l10n and translation related stuff... -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 7 mars 08, at 17:42, Pavel Janík wrote: I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter-related. Do you have an example of such issue? Discussing Pootle in conjunction with OmegaT. If you mean a _technical_ list where pootle-dev questions exclusively are discussed then why not, but that is not clear from your proposal. Plus I don't think that is OT on this _DEV_ list. Personally, I think what we rather need is a list for translators/l10n managers where they can discuss practical issues and a dev-only list where the technical issues (eventually pootle related) are discussed. Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter-related. Do you have an example of such issue? -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On 7 mars 08, at 17:37, Rail Aliev wrote: On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote: Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic. +1 I think that would only create confusion since some issues are inter- related. -1 Jean-Christophe Helary http://mac4translators.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
On Friday 07 March 2008 11:30:31 Pavel Janík wrote:
> Thus I'd like to propose the setup of
> special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where:
We discussed this issue before and decision was to create such list if we have
a lot of Pootle-related mail traffic.
+1
--
Best regards,
Rail Aliev
http://{ru,tr}.openoffice.org
Your motives for doing whatever good deed you may have in mind will be
misinterpreted by somebody.
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[l10n-dev] Proposal: create pootle-translation-method mailing list
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the list where localization issues should be discussed. We also discuss translation related issues here. We also discuss different translation methods here. we also discuss particular instances of different translation methods here. Unfortunately the amount of traffic caused by Sun's particular instance of pootle translation method of OpenOffice.org translation takes a lot of traffic here. Thus I'd like to propose the setup of special [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list where: - pootle in connection with OOo could be discussed - Sun's pootle instance and its issues could be discussed (like nonstandard port, slowness, schedules of updates, help to its users etc.) and this list would remain for general l10n and general translation issues common to all translation methods used. The current status unfortunately slows down teams who do not or can't use Pootle and Sun's Pootle instance in particular. -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
