[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi *, WorldLabel.com wrote (26-05-11 13:50) We will protect past investments by building on the solid achievements of our first decade I can not help reading that line and thinking the fact is, the only way we all can protect past investments and build on them is to forge a way for both communities to come together! Yes ... but there is something more to say on the subject. It is obvious that, at the moment when the larger part left to continue working in TDF, not all people had the same feeling. People maybe found it too fast, or maybe some found the departure a bit noisy, or not fair against Sun/Oracle, or for the Hamburg developers, or ... No need to discuss this all again pls ;-) However, the fact that Oracle decided to stop working as has been done in the past, and to hand OpenOffice.org over to the open source community (...) does not automatically mean that the various opinions that we have seen around the start of TDF, suddenly have changed. Isn't it?! Well, obviously people that work (convinced) in TDF (and I am one of them) may feel: we already made the step, set up a whole lot of necessary tools, infra, etc etc, so come on and join ... :-) And indeed we see that people and groups do. But also we must recognize that not for each and everyone that didn't, maybe the initial opinion and feelings did not change just by Oracle's announcement. Kind regards, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: My point is not that having a good discussion about OpenOffice.org is out of the question here, on OOo lists. I find that fine, and the location quite proper. But such a discussion ought to be-must be-about OOo, its NLCs, its contributors, its goals, its options. Such a discussion, in other words is not really about TDF or LO, and to understand our options as only being one or the other is really to cut short what could otherwise be a really healthy reassessment of opportunities. Naturally, I also believe that any discussion in which we begin to lay out approaches to the future of OOo development-and there is a future-really needs to be done carefully, as it's *easy* to be misunderstood by others, however good willing they be, when the context is so very charged. First of all, the conversation we are having is about the future of OpenOffice.org development. Florian Effenberger wrote to say that he thinks the best place for OpenOffice.org development is within The Document Foundation. That is a conversation about OpenOffice.org and it is a perfectly valid proposal, and in fact, the best and only proposal we have seen so far. Second, the OpenOffice.org name is owned and controlled by Oracle. Any further software releases under the OpenOffice.org name, and any further development of the OpenOffice.org website will only happen with Oracle's agreement. It appears however that there is no one here representing Oracle. Oracle has basically taken its ball and gone home. Without representation from Oracle, we can conversate all we want, but it will go nowhere. Is there a contact person at Oracle who is authorized and willing to speak and act on behalf of Oracle, and who can convey to us what Oracle wants and is willing to agree to regarding the continued development and release of software under the OpenOffice.org name? Allen -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
We will protect past investments by building on the solid achievements of our first decade I can not help reading that line and thinking the fact is, the only way we all can protect past investments and build on them is to forge a way for both communities to come together! On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Sophie sgautier@free.fr wrote: Hi Khirano, On 26/05/2011 01:34, Kazunari Hirano wrote: Hi Florian, Did TDF change its mission, from the evolution of the OpenOffice.org Community[1] to the evolution of the LibreOffice Community[2]? [1] http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ this is the foundation [...] [2] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-3-3-2-is-now-available-td2714419.html this is LibreOffice The Document Foundation is issued, born from the OpenOffice.org community with the clear say that we wanted a future for the product and the project. Flo said it very well in his first message, I won't repeat. We support our product LibreOffice also, and the foundation may develop other products and support other products too in the future. That doesn't mean that we forget where we come from, and this is why also we are here, trying to unify us again, under the TDF umbrella if possible. Building a foundation ask for a lot of work, energy, time. More and more people have confidence in us (soon, next month, the French ministries will announce their support), the foundation should also be their home for the work, the energy, the time and the money they invest. Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
El 25/05/11 17:42, Sophie Gautier escribió: Alexandro, please, fact and realty, you understand that after all what has been written and said about the Spanish speaking community we can't trust you any more or only backup your says. We know that you are not representative of it and the we you are talking about is only a very very low group of people, that is not the Spanish speaking community at all. The same very low group that make translations, and make support in lists, and make the job in spanish sites of both projects... bad for you Sophie... Bad for you... Discuss the ideas but not people -- --- Prof. Román H. Gelbort No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones, sino aplicaciones que resuelvan problemas específicos... http://www.piensalibre.com.ar --- -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hello, Le Thu, 26 May 2011 09:50:27 -0300, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar a écrit : El 25/05/11 17:42, Sophie Gautier escribió: Alexandro, please, fact and realty, you understand that after all what has been written and said about the Spanish speaking community we can't trust you any more or only backup your says. We know that you are not representative of it and the we you are talking about is only a very very low group of people, that is not the Spanish speaking community at all. The same very low group that make translations, and make support in lists, and make the job in spanish sites of both projects... bad for you Sophie... Bad for you... Discuss the ideas but not people Actually the group in question has stopped contributing to the LibreOffice project in any significant way I believe. But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. Let's perhaps refocus the discussion on one question that might perhaps all that matters now: are there any significant differences between the two projects that would make a cooperation -or broadly speaking, an unification- hard or impossible? If I may suggest, let's start with anything (if there's anything) that is broad or critical enough to discuss first. Best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) -- --- Prof. Román H. Gelbort No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones, sino aplicaciones que resuelvan problemas específicos... http://www.piensalibre.com.ar --- -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar wrote: El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will fall into place. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Le Thu, 26 May 2011 11:18:48 -0300, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar a écrit : El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) That wasn't the focus I was suggesting and I would very much like to get input on the question I have asked. Thanks, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hello Ian, Le Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:22 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com a écrit : On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar wrote: El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will fall into place. That does make sense, but what do you specifically mean by an agreement on governance? -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
On 26 May 2011 17:39, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello Ian, Le Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:22 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com a écrit : On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar wrote: El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will fall into place. That does make sense, but what do you specifically mean by an agreement on governance? If OOo and LO are to come together under one set of governance, the constitution/rules will have to be agreed. Here are some examples NOT specific suggestions, simply to illustrate the point. 1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community Council etc is absorbed into TDF 2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC 3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and governance for both communities 4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the other 5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of coalition. Once community and project governance is resolved the duly elected officers in consultation with the community can make decisions about eg development priorities use of names etc. I think until there is agreement on governance with delegated power to the governing body, there will always be the potential for acrimonious disagreement about every individual issue. -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Ian Lynch wrote (26-05-11 16:52) 1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community Council etc is absorbed into TDF 2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC 3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and governance for both communities 4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the other 5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of coalition. From a practical point of view, looking at what The Document Foundation is and offers; and since nearly all people in both projects know each other (often for a longer time): the number 1, in a sort of combination with 4, looks most feasible, offering best changes for result and continuity. Such an approach is in line with the suggestions I've read here several times the last week: what would people from the OOo project would like to add and/or change in TDF to make it feel the proper place for their ideas and wishes as well. Best, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Le Thu, 26 May 2011 15:52:35 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com a écrit : On 26 May 2011 17:39, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello Ian, Le Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:22 +0100, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com a écrit : On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar wrote: El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: But it's perhaps not very important at that stage. +1 I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo comunity. :-) How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will fall into place. That does make sense, but what do you specifically mean by an agreement on governance? If OOo and LO are to come together under one set of governance, the constitution/rules will have to be agreed. Here are some examples NOT specific suggestions, simply to illustrate the point. 1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community Council etc is absorbed into TDF 2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC 3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and governance for both communities 4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the other 5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of coalition. Once community and project governance is resolved the duly elected officers in consultation with the community can make decisions about eg development priorities use of names etc. I think until there is agreement on governance with delegated power to the governing body, there will always be the potential for acrimonious disagreement about every individual issue. I must say you got me confused here. :-) So let me try to address your 5 points, I understand you may be thinking about some more, but anyway that would be food for thought. Also, this is my opinion only, not the one of TDF. 5: this is in fact very feasible. The minimum being: we use ODF, stupid! but tighter cooperation is always good to work on. However the 5 can only work or even be possible if some development force still exists. Which means that the Hamburg engineers would continue to get paid for their work. 4. that would depend what you mean by modified in some way. We would much rather aggregate more contributors from OOo rather than modifying our governance to have one specific OOo representative who is not elected and only nominated by some strange authority. But we do have an Advisory Board, maybe we could work something out there. 3. frankly that would be a waste of time. Sorry to put it bluntly, but the way I always saw us (all of us, here) as one community and two projects. Basically, most of the community went away to create another new project because the first one was plagued by too many issues and uncertainty of the future. Now the former project is in peril, his resources are not being ensured by its sponsor... We created new structure, new processes (sometimes we kept the old ones), precisely to fix the project, while working as one community. 2. :-) 1. I actually have some questions about this one. You're alluding to a simple integration of OOo into TDF. That is very much what already happened, but there are still engineers here (who don't code anymore, I think) and a few people who sticked to OOo (no criticism from my side here). In this case we could think about ways to alleviate concerns from the OOo community but also to communicate about what we could then call unification. So to answer to your argument that we need to sort out governance first and then issues will be handled in due time I think I'm not so much in agreement with you, because I think the OOo project has come to a point where there are various diverging interests on the inside; I would even call them existential interests: there is a very skilled developers' workforce on one hand who might soon be looking for a job, on the other, there are several teams here and there, but mostly users. If you take a look at the size of the LibreOffice project (that's not meant for me to brag) I would actually say that it's got its own momentum now, while this project here is disagregating in its structure (but perhaps not in its ideas). Mixing the two governance would also be not supported by the LibreOffice folks. On the other hand, having some sort of representativity inside, say, TDF's Advisory Board might be a very good thing. So a mixture of 1 +4 +5 could be a good way forward, while not emphasizing too much on governance. best, Charles. -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community Council etc is absorbed into TDF 2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC 3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and governance for both communities 4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the other 5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of coalition. Once community and project governance is resolved the duly elected officers in consultation with the community can make decisions about eg development priorities use of names etc. I think until there is agreement on governance with delegated power to the governing body, there will always be the potential for acrimonious disagreement about every individual issue. I must say you got me confused here. :-) So let me try to address your 5 points, I understand you may be thinking about some more, but anyway that would be food for thought. Also, this is my opinion only, not the one of TDF. 5: this is in fact very feasible. The minimum being: we use ODF, stupid! but tighter cooperation is always good to work on. However the 5 can only work or even be possible if some development force still exists. Which means that the Hamburg engineers would continue to get paid for their work. 4. that would depend what you mean by modified in some way. We would much rather aggregate more contributors from OOo rather than modifying our governance to have one specific OOo representative who is not elected and only nominated by some strange authority. But we do have an Advisory Board, maybe we could work something out there. 3. frankly that would be a waste of time. Sorry to put it bluntly, but the way I always saw us (all of us, here) as one community and two projects. Basically, most of the community went away to create another new project because the first one was plagued by too many issues and uncertainty of the future. Now the former project is in peril, his resources are not being ensured by its sponsor... We created new structure, new processes (sometimes we kept the old ones), precisely to fix the project, while working as one community. 2. :-) 1. I actually have some questions about this one. You're alluding to a simple integration of OOo into TDF. That is very much what already happened, but there are still engineers here (who don't code anymore, I think) and a few people who sticked to OOo (no criticism from my side here). In this case we could think about ways to alleviate concerns from the OOo community but also to communicate about what we could then call unification. So to answer to your argument that we need to sort out governance first and then issues will be handled in due time I think I'm not so much in agreement with you, because I think the OOo project has come to a point where there are various diverging interests on the inside; I would even call them existential interests: there is a very skilled developers' workforce on one hand who might soon be looking for a job, on the other, there are several teams here and there, but mostly users. If you take a look at the size of the LibreOffice project (that's not meant for me to brag) I would actually say that it's got its own momentum now, while this project here is disagregating in its structure (but perhaps not in its ideas). Mixing the two governance would also be not supported by the LibreOffice folks. On the other hand, having some sort of representativity inside, say, TDF's Advisory Board might be a very good thing. So a mixture of 1 +4 +5 could be a good way forward, while not emphasizing too much on governance. I was careful to say in the original post that these were illustrative examples, not specific suggestions or recommendations. There are probably other possibilities too. Your reply is exactly why agreement (or disagreement) on governance is required. Without it there will be constant uncertainty and a lot of wasted energy and that is one thing neither group can really afford. btw, I'm speaking here as a neutral. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of any specific governance - the examples I produced were deliberately balanced in that respect. best, Charles. -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Roman, Alexandro, * you may say you're the only people involved in OOo from the Spanish Community, but you know perfectly that's not true. Sophie is right, you don't represent the Spanish Community at all. But here's not the place for such a discussion. Best Greetings, Ramon Roman H. Gelbort wrote: El 25/05/11 17:42, Sophie Gautier escribió: Alexandro, please, fact and realty, you understand that after all what has been written and said about the Spanish speaking community we can't trust you any more or only backup your says. We know that you are not representative of it and the we you are talking about is only a very very low group of people, that is not the Spanish speaking community at all. The same very low group that make translations, and make support in lists, and make the job in spanish sites of both projects... bad for you Sophie... Bad for you... Discuss the ideas but not people -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. Louis On 2011-05-25, at 08:03 , Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello everyone, I have not been subscribed to this list for months, but due to Louis' recent Cc, I was made aware of the discussion going on -- so, as a representant of TDF, but also as someone for whom personally the community means a lot, let me say a few words. I indeed see the current situation as an ideal basis for uniting things. The diversity the Community is in now doesn't help anyone. If you now think we, TDF, are happy and get satisfaction out of the current situation, you are terribly wrong. Even if we expected something like that to happen, our intention was to safeguard the project from this eventuality, not to profit from it. We all have similar goals: a free office suite, available to everyone. So let's not discuss about the past, about what has happened and about the reasons that led to this, but rather focus on the future. I want to openly repeat our invitation to everyone to join The Document Foundation and the LibreOffice Community. Why do I think that we are the right place to continue the work? In yesterday's blog post, we summed up where we stand, and reading it will help to understand the current situation: http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/05/24/updates-on-the-foundation/ 1. We are vendor neutral. I am sorry that I have to object to Louis' statement of us being a proxy for Microsoft -- nothing can be further from the truth. I must confess, that by statements like these, I feel even personally insulted. I spend many hours per day on a pure volunteer basis, and if anyone can point on those of my doings that are proxying for Microsoft, I would be interested to hear them. Otherwise, I'll ask to stop spreading those wrong assumptions -- as they are simply that: wrong. 2. We have a strong legal backing, not only by the German nonprofit Freies Office Deutschland e.V., but also by the Software in the Public Interest (SPI), and we are on track with establishing the Foundation as a legal entity. Even right now, we have all options needed for dealing with legal aspects, accepting and spending money. We already can and do maintain trademarks, brands and other assets. 3. We have an independent infrastructure that works and is not controlled by nor depends on a single entity. In addition, as we are not using a fixed web framework, we are very flexible in what we do. 4. We have not only gained a lot of momentum, but also a strong developer base of more than 200 volunteers, amongst them 40 who contribute on a very regular basis. Yes, of course, any contribution corporations with paid developers do are highly welcome and help a lot -- but already right now, we are in a status where we could drive the project without them, if the worst case would occur. This is something we never managed to achieve in ten years' of OpenOffice.org. When I first read the Oracle announcement from April, talking about an independent, noncommercial entity, my first thoughts were -- and still are -- this is exactly what TDF is doing. I have seen proposals of setting up another foundation, or moving to an existing foundation that is not TDF. Honestly, this does not make very much sense to me. It would again lead to a diversity, would require many efforts, and would continue to irritate the market at large. Why reinvent the wheel? OpenOffice.org is already very special in many of its processes. Having it under the umbrella of another, existing entity, would require lots of changes to fit in there. TDF has, from the very beginning, been shaped as a new entity with processes that fit to what we have accomplished the last years. We changed things that didn't work, and improved things that do work -- isn't this the best basis to build on? Let's not waste energy in once again trying to fit under an umbrella, but rather work jointly together on our future. I am not saying that TDF does everything right and 100% perfect. We are giving our best, and I think we do a fairly good job. I've seen comments that TDF is missing big corporate support, and that the whole ecosystem is at risk. Again, I consider this terribly wrong. Of course, we would love to have much more support from corporations already, but building this up needs time, requires trust and confidence, and after all, support is growing rapidly. If anyone thinks by setting up a new foundation or by
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Louis, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 14.33: Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. as the topic was raised on this public mailing list, and as it concerns the OpenOffice.org Community, I thought it is indeed the right approach to reply publically to the discussion. The question I raised was not rhetorical. I don't want to say take TDF as is, but I am open to feedback and criticism. If there is anything that needs to be changed or improved, any criticism that is justified, I definitely will not ignore it, but rather try to work on it and improve things. However, I will also take position to criticism that from my point of view is simply not justified, and I think, that combination is a good basis for a discussion. So, again, my question to all of the OpenOffice.org community: Is there any particular reason on why working together, jointly, united, is not possible? Is there any justified reason on why working under the umbrella of a different foundation, or even setting up another foundation in parallel, makes sense? I am open to discussion on any channel -- and although I think that the OpenOffice.org mailing lists are indeed the right channel to discuss the future of the OpenOffice.org community, I am happy to discuss on any other channel. Needless to say, I prefer openness and transparency, whereever possible. Face to face meetings are of course an option, but it will exclude those who cannot participate, so why not initiate the discussion on the list here as I did? Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Florian, all, On 25/05/2011 17:00, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Louis, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 14.33: Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. as the topic was raised on this public mailing list, and as it concerns the OpenOffice.org Community, I thought it is indeed the right approach to reply publically to the discussion. The question I raised was not rhetorical. I don't want to say take TDF as is, but I am open to feedback and criticism. If there is anything that needs to be changed or improved, any criticism that is justified, I definitely will not ignore it, but rather try to work on it and improve things. However, I will also take position to criticism that from my point of view is simply not justified, and I think, that combination is a good basis for a discussion. So, again, my question to all of the OpenOffice.org community: Is there any particular reason on why working together, jointly, united, is not possible? Is there any justified reason on why working under the umbrella of a different foundation, or even setting up another foundation in parallel, makes sense? I am open to discussion on any channel -- and although I think that the OpenOffice.org mailing lists are indeed the right channel to discuss the future of the OpenOffice.org community, I am happy to discuss on any other channel. Needless to say, I prefer openness and transparency, whereever possible. And of course, I'll support you in this discussion and completely second your point of view and your position here. In the same way, I would be happy to discuss further with the OpenOffice.org community what can be the best done to join both. Face to face meetings are of course an option, but it will exclude those who cannot participate, so why not initiate the discussion on the list here as I did? +1 Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Louis On 2011-05-25, at 10:29 , Sophie wrote: Hi Florian, all, On 25/05/2011 17:00, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Louis, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 14.33: Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. as the topic was raised on this public mailing list, and as it concerns the OpenOffice.org Community, I thought it is indeed the right approach to reply publically to the discussion. The question I raised was not rhetorical. I don't want to say take TDF as is, but I am open to feedback and criticism. If there is anything that needs to be changed or improved, any criticism that is justified, I definitely will not ignore it, but rather try to work on it and improve things. However, I will also take position to criticism that from my point of view is simply not justified, and I think, that combination is a good basis for a discussion. So, again, my question to all of the OpenOffice.org community: Is there any particular reason on why working together, jointly, united, is not possible? Is there any justified reason on why working under the umbrella of a different foundation, or even setting up another foundation in parallel, makes sense? I am open to discussion on any channel -- and although I think that the OpenOffice.org mailing lists are indeed the right channel to discuss the future of the OpenOffice.org community, I am happy to discuss on any other channel. Needless to say, I prefer openness and transparency, whereever possible. And of course, I'll support you in this discussion and completely second your point of view and your position here. In the same way, I would be happy to discuss further with the OpenOffice.org community what can be the best done to join both. Face to face meetings are of course an option, but it will exclude those who cannot participate, so why not initiate the discussion on the list here as I did? +1 Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Guys, I am sure that a discussion in neutral territory can still mean a very transparent and productive conversation too. Louis, Which forum did you have in mind? Gian On Wed 25/05/11 16:55 , Louis Suarez-Potts lsuarezpo...@gmail.com sent: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Louis On 2011-05-25, at 10:29 , Sophie wrote: Hi Florian, all, On 25/05/2011 17:00, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Louis, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 14.33: Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. as the topic was raised on this public mailing list, and as it concerns the OpenOffice.org Community, I thought it is indeed the right approach to reply publically to the discussion. The question I raised was not rhetorical. I don't want to say take TDF as is, but I am open to feedback and criticism. If there is anything that needs to be changed or improved, any criticism that is justified, I definitely will not ignore it, but rather try to work on it and improve things. However, I will also take position to criticism that from my point of view is simply not justified, and I think, that combination is a good basis for a discussion. So, again, my question to all of the OpenOffice.org community: Is there any particular reason on why working together, jointly, united, is not possible? Is there any justified reason on why working under the umbrella of a different foundation, or even setting up another foundation in parallel, makes sense? I am open to discussion on any channel -- and although I think that the OpenOffice.org mailing lists are indeed the right channel to discuss the future of the OpenOffice.org community, I am happy to discuss on any other channel. Needless to say, I prefer openness and transparency, whereever possible. And of course, I'll support you in this discussion and completely second your point of view and your position here. In the same way, I would be happy to discuss further with the OpenOffice.org community what can be the best done to join both. Face to face meetings are of course an option, but it will exclude those who cannot participate, so why not initiate the discussion on the list here as I did? +1 Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscribe@marketing.openoffice.orgFor additional commands send email to sympa@marketing.openoffice.orgwith Subject: help -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 16.55: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. I still do not understand why a discussion on the future of the OpenOffice.org project should *not* belong on a mailing list of that project, at least as long as it concerns the community directly. That being said, if there's a wide interest to have it elsewhere, I surely will not object, as long as we can have as much open and transparent as possible. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hello everyone, 2011/5/25 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Hi, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 16.55: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. I still do not understand why a discussion on the future of the OpenOffice.org project should *not* belong on a mailing list of that project, at least as long as it concerns the community directly. That being said, if there's a wide interest to have it elsewhere, I surely will not object, as long as we can have as much open and transparent as possible. Yes indeed. I'd say that it was perhaps not the best thing to start discussing these matters if it turns out to be not the best place. But I also think that given the situation the OpenOffice.org project is, a neutral place is not as critical as Louis might think. I certainly don't want to upset the community here but I'm sure we should have that conversation now. We all know each other, and we can all discuss about these things without the need of a formal neutral place. But again, if the community feels it's offensive we ought to go elsewhere. Best Charles. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hello Louis, As a member of the community, I'm trying to understand the situation here, especially the situation from your point of view. The Document Foundation has made it clear that if there are no negotiations with OpenOffice.org, they will continue to develop and release the codebase under the LibreOffice name. At this point in time, who is continuing to participate in the OpenOffice.org community? Having been appointed to your position by Sun (without an election by the Community), and then terminated by Oracle, do you feel that you are still qualified to speak for the OpenOffice.org Community, and if so, in what way and on what basis? Is Oracle still participating in the OpenOffice.org community, and if so, in what way? Who is speaking for Oracle? What does OpenOffice.org have to contribute at this point to the open source community? I understand that Oracle now owns the trademark to OpenOffice.org and the copyright to the codebase. What does OpenOffice.org have? You stated that ...a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Who is the our in that statement, what do you see being our narrow concerns, and what do you see being at stake beyond our narrow concerns? If OpenOffice.org and The Document Foundation negotiate, what do you see as the best possible outcome? What other possible outcomes can you foresee that are better than the current direction? If OpenOffice.org and The Document Foundation negotiate and there is no agreement, what will OpenOffice.org do? Will there be any more software development or releases? Who will do that work? Thank you, Allen -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, Em 25-05-2011 12:08, Gianvittorio escreveu: Guys, I am sure that a discussion in neutral territory can still mean a very transparent and productive conversation too. Louis, Which forum did you have in mind? As Florian said, I don't understand why neutral territory? I hope we all, users and interested about this,know where it goes this conversation. Gian On Wed 25/05/11 16:55 , Louis Suarez-Potts lsuarezpo...@gmail.com sent: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Louis On 2011-05-25, at 10:29 , Sophie wrote: Hi Florian, all, On 25/05/2011 17:00, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Louis, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote on 2011-05-25 14.33: Thanks, Florian for the long message :-) But, can I request that we have such advocations (not sure that's a word) presented in a more neutral space? My reasoning, besides the obvious, that this is OOo-land, has to do with simply having a suitable forum for what is likely to be a protracted and contentious discussion, and that sort of thing calls out for neutrality. I also tend to think that having focused and if possible in-person meetings is immensely helpful. as the topic was raised on this public mailing list, and as it concerns the OpenOffice.org Community, I thought it is indeed the right approach to reply publically to the discussion. The question I raised was not rhetorical. I don't want to say take TDF as is, but I am open to feedback and criticism. If there is anything that needs to be changed or improved, any criticism that is justified, I definitely will not ignore it, but rather try to work on it and improve things. However, I will also take position to criticism that from my point of view is simply not justified, and I think, that combination is a good basis for a discussion. So, again, my question to all of the OpenOffice.org community: Is there any particular reason on why working together, jointly, united, is not possible? Is there any justified reason on why working under the umbrella of a different foundation, or even setting up another foundation in parallel, makes sense? I am open to discussion on any channel -- and although I think that the OpenOffice.org mailing lists are indeed the right channel to discuss the future of the OpenOffice.org community, I am happy to discuss on any other channel. Needless to say, I prefer openness and transparency, whereever possible. And of course, I'll support you in this discussion and completely second your point of view and your position here. In the same way, I would be happy to discuss further with the OpenOffice.org community what can be the best done to join both. Face to face meetings are of course an option, but it will exclude those who cannot participate, so why not initiate the discussion on the list here as I did? +1 Kind regards Sophie Luiz Oliveira -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREIAAYFAk3dItMACgkQDL3QxriScqjW/AD/XzfGPJ5q9Y9Far03M4ckvNPA GdP1upFqanHb5db8S2IA/jsh7CsZpSctoxVdhfhp2hB5u0/1GXQxEUqCoUnbML8Q =B3IB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Il 25/05/2011 16:55, Louis Suarez-Potts ha scritto: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Time is come. As still member of OOo community I *strongly* believe that such discussion should be made in public. Otherwise we (the community) still fall into our narrow concers as it was during last ten years. Community deserves at least a minimum of clarity on OOo future. TDF is a possible place to reunify the community and there is nothing else on the horizon. Davide signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Davide Dozza wrote: Time is come. As still member of OOo community I *strongly* believe that such discussion should be made in public. Otherwise we (the community) still fall into our narrow concers as it was during last ten years. It is to bad that the Community does not have anything to do with this. Oracle holds the trademark and copyright to OpenOffice.org. This discussion should be happening between Oracle and TDF with the community being kept informed of the process/progress, if any. Community deserves at least a minimum of clarity on OOo future. TDF is a possible place to reunify the community and there is nothing else on the horizon. Yes, we the community, deserves a lot of clarification on the future of OOo. But that will have to come from Oracle not TDF. As a personal point of view I hope that a new foundation will be formed. Andy -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Davide Dozza dav...@flossconsulting.itwrote: Il 25/05/2011 16:55, Louis Suarez-Potts ha scritto: There are many good reasons to have any discussion as proposed by the TDF—Florian and Sophie—on a neutral ground. I've mentioned the compelling ones. And I also think we need to proceed very carefully here. Not only for community reasons but also because a lot is at stake beyond our narrow concerns. Time is come. As still member of OOo community I *strongly* believe that such discussion should be made in public. Otherwise we (the community) still fall into our narrow concers as it was during last ten years. Community deserves at least a minimum of clarity on OOo future. TDF is a possible place to reunify the community and there is nothing else on the horizon. Davide I agree with Davide's point, transparency is really the best way to handle things. OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Alexandro, 2011/5/25 Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org: OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? I doubt it. Have a look at http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/cws-announce/archive/ The development has stopped, that's it what happens. Volker -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Alexandro, 2011/5/25 Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org: OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? I doubt it. Have a look at http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/cws-announce/archive/ The development has stopped, that's it what happens. Volker -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help Sorry Volker, I am talking about the 'es' project specifically. We have added some new people in the past few weeks. Also chatted with other developers that I hang out on IRC. -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
El 25/05/11 16:58, Volker Merschmann escribió: This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? Volker... the core developers aren't the only VIP in the project! -- --- Prof. Román H. Gelbort No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones, sino aplicaciones que resuelvan problemas específicos... http://www.piensalibre.com.ar --- -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
[resent and amended with the good address, my apologize to the moderators] Hi Alexandro, On 25/05/2011 23:02, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.com mailto:merschm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandro, 2011/5/25 Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org mailto:j...@openoffice.org: OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? I doubt it. Have a look at http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/cws-announce/archive/ The development has stopped, that's it what happens. Volker -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org mailto:dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org mailto:sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help Sorry Volker, I am talking about the 'es' project specifically. We have added some new people in the past few weeks. Also chatted with other developers that I hang out on IRC. Alexandro, please, fact and realty, you understand that after all what has been written and said about the Spanish speaking community we can't trust you any more or only backup what you says. We know that you are not representative of it and the we you are talking about is only a very very low group of people, that is not the Spanish speaking community at all. So until others from this Spanish speaking community at large (and I mean others) asserts what you're saying I (and we) take if for granted and won't caution it, sorry. Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
У сре, 25. 05 2011. у 15:02 -0500, Alexandro Colorado пише: We have added some new people in the past few weeks. Also chatted with other developers that I hang out on IRC. That is great, I am looking forward for patches and code for all new features! As user and integrator I do not care where the code comes from. And sorry Roman, while all contributions to the project are equally important, without a code being written there is no open source project at all. Kind regards, Goran Rakic -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Florian, Did TDF change its mission, from the evolution of the OpenOffice.org Community[1] to the evolution of the LibreOffice Community[2]? [1] http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ Our Mission Our mission is to facilitate the evolution of the OpenOffice.org Community into a new open, independent, and meritocratic organizational structure within the next few months. An independent Foundation is a better match to the values of our contributors, users, and supporters, and will enable a more effective, efficient, transparent, and inclusive Community. We will protect past investments by building on the solid achievements of our first decade, encourage wide participation in the Community, and co-ordinate activity across the Community. [2] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-3-3-2-is-now-available-td2714419.html *** About The Document Foundation The Document Foundation has the mission of facilitating the evolution of the LibreOffice Community into a new, open, independent, and meritocratic organization within the next few months. An independent foundation is a better reflection of the values of our contributors, users and supporters, and will enable a more effective, efficient and transparent community. TDF will protect past investments by building on the achievements of the first decade, will encourage wide participation within the community, and will co-ordinate activity across the community. Thanks, khirano -- Kazunari Hirano - Marketing Project Coordinator - OpenOffice.org Japanese Language Project http://ja.openoffice.org/ -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
Hi Alexandro, On 25/05/2011 23:02, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.com mailto:merschm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandro, 2011/5/25 Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org mailto:j...@openoffice.org: OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? I doubt it. Have a look at http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/cws-announce/archive/ The development has stopped, that's it what happens. Volker -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org mailto:dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org mailto:sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help Sorry Volker, I am talking about the 'es' project specifically. We have added some new people in the past few weeks. Also chatted with other developers that I hang out on IRC. Alexandro, please, fact and realty, you understand that after all what has been written and said about the Spanish speaking community we can't trust you any more or only backup your says. We know that you are not representative of it and the we you are talking about is only a very very low group of people, that is not the Spanish speaking community at all. So until others from this Spanish speaking community (and I mean others) asserts what you're saying I won't caution it, sorry. Kind regards Sophie -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community
For what it's worth, I think it is good that this discussion is being held here. What I see happening is that perspectives and ideas and difficulties are being openly discussed in a 'public' forum that is open to all who wish to be involved... and that this 'concept of openness' is what got me, personally, involved with the OOo Community... to which I still believe I have useful skills to contribute, though I am NOT a code-developer (I am a retired media management and marketing professional)... which has to a great degree constrained my participation in many of the discussions which take place on this list... And still, given OOo is to continue 'as something', it seems to me critical that this conversation continue right here where it was begun... ~Christine - On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandro, 2011/5/25 Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org: OOo is certainly not death and to a point we've seen more developers coming through in the project which have legitimate concerns about this community to keep working. This is not true and you know it. Can you name any new core developer which has started to work on the project in the last six months? I doubt it. Have a look at http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/cws-announce/archive/ The development has stopped, that's it what happens. Volker -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help Sorry Volker, I am talking about the 'es' project specifically. We have added some new people in the past few weeks. Also chatted with other developers that I hang out on IRC. -- Alexandro Colorado OpenOffice.org Español http://es.openoffice.org -- - To unsubscribe send email to dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands send email to sy...@marketing.openoffice.org with Subject: help
