Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Phil Leigh;521081 Wrote: Nonreality - check the dns setings in your router and xp network settings - tcp/ip properties and also in your sb's Could my SB3 have an old router setting stuck in it so that it is trying access that when my computer is off? If so how do I tell or fix it? -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Nonreality;521504 Wrote: Could my SB3 have an old router setting stuck in it so that it is trying access that when my computer is off? If so how do I tell or fix it? check current settings , hold left arrow for a while then the SB3 enters Squeezebox Setup Then you have Current Settings (2 of 4) here you can scroll trough your settings to se if they make sense . You can also check Conect to. (4 of 4 ) which should be your local server. Menu (3 of 4) is a way to conect to mysquueezebox.com directly from firmware setup Menu (1 of 4) is the setup here is where you setup networking. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBR to be stuffed in a box in the attic ) Miscellaneous use: Radio (battery pack to be ordered) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Nonreality;521041 Wrote: Great comment. Mine has has a buffering problem for the first time ever with flac running on a XP machine. Never ever had the problem until 7.2.4 Maybe it's a joke to you but not to me. Only on flac and up until now it had never happened. I'm pretty sure it's faster than a cell phone. These jokes only go so far as I'm only able now to connect to mysqueezebox.com when my computer is on. Both of these things are not funny and not the best of things. I'm very worried if my computer is off I'll not be able to use my SB3 and also I'm very worried that I'm not going to be able to use all my flac music that i've already been able to use for 3 years. I didn't read the rest of the post already so I'm sorry if I got ahead of myself. I love my SB3 and don't want it to become obsolete because no one cares about it. Your machine is certainly 1000 times faster than some of these NAS boxes I suppose the joke was not on you. Xp that was a long ago but anything around 1-1.6mHz with =1GB ram should certainly do it very well, some run XP with only 512mB of RAM thats barely enough to keep XP happy, and it upgrades all the time so fond memory of XP was that use of sytem resources was creeping upwards all the time. If you run some other OS i supose 512mB would actually be more than ok. Have you done the streaming test lately how fast does it go close to 3000kBs is expected on an SB3 If one want to test the server trothle up the network test on all players. An bad example I know on my old XP partition i could never reach above 1500kBs but I think that was Nortons doing that something had gone really bad about the way my computer handled ip traffic, i tried other firewalls but once Norton has been installed in a system it's forever fubare'd . Tried ubuntu on the same hardware worked splendidly. I never seen any similar report on how to fault trace that is XP known to having problems with moving data fast ? Multiboot is a possible way to try things on slow machines (othervise virtual machines or good). I have an Ubuntu partition and one XP partition. You can do this with any combination you can run 2 different XP partitions too ? that's a way to see if it is the OS or hardware thats misbehave. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBR to be stuffed in a box in the attic ) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
There should be no problem running on XP with 7.2.4. IS your system all-wired? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Mnyb;521047 Wrote: Your machine is certainly 1000 times faster than some of these NAS boxes I suppose the joke was not on you. Xp that was a long ago but anything around 1-1.6mHz with =1GB ram should certainly do it very well, some run XP with only 512mB of RAM thats barely enough to keep XP happy, and it upgrades all the time. So what iremebered of XP was that use of system resources was creeping upwards all the time. If you run some other OS i supose 512mB would actually be more than ok. Have you done the streaming test lately how fast does it go close to 3000kBs is expected on an SB3 If one want to test the server trothle up the network test on all players. An bad example I know on my old XP partition i could never reach above 1500kBs but I think that was Nortons doing that something had gone really bad about the way my computer handled ip traffic, i tried other firewalls but once Norton has been installed in a system it's forever fubare'd . Tried ubuntu on the same hardware worked splendidly. I never seen any similar report on how to fault trace that. Is XP known to having problems with moving data fast ? Multiboot is a possible way to try things on slow machines (othervise virtual machines or good). I have an Ubuntu partition and one XP partition. You can do this with any combination you can run 2 different XP partitions too ? that's a way to see if it is the OS or hardware thats misbehave. If I understand you right then yes my results are 100% as far as the test go. It only has about 20 feet to go so not a long distance. I admit I've shied away from flac ever since i've had problems with it. So right now I'm playing some flac music without a problem to test it out. As far as using mysqueezebox.com it still only works while my server machine is operating. The minute that it is off the SB3 says it can not connect to the server? It's not a huge deal now but could be in the future. So far the flac is playing correctly so maybe I have overreacted to a problem that has been fixed. If so I'm sorry to have brought it up again. But the problem with not being able to access mysqueezebox.com still continues and that does very much concern me. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Nonreality;521051 Wrote: If I understand you right then yes my results are 100% as far as the test go. I also have 2gb of ram. It only has about 20 feet to go so not a long distance. I admit I've shied away from flac ever since i've had problems with it. So right now I'm playing some flac music without a problem to test it out. As far as using mysqueezebox.com it still only works while my server machine is operating. The minute that it is off the SB3 says it can not connect to the server? It's not a huge deal now but could be in the future. So far the flac is playing correctly so maybe I have overreacted to a problem that has been fixed. If so I'm sorry to have brought it up again. But the problem with not being able to access mysqueezebox.com still continues and that does very much concern me. That is weird you are on 7.4.x i supose.. now I see your other tread. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBR to be stuffed in a box in the attic ) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Nonreality - check the dns setings in your router and xp network settings - tcp/ip properties and also in your sb's -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
andyg;441530 Wrote: Before you give up, try and see if running SC on a server that is faster than your cell phone fixes the problem. :) I kid, but only slightly, about how slow the non-x86 ReadyNAS boxes are. Great comment. Mine has has a buffering problem for the first time ever with flac running on a XP machine. Never ever had the problem until 7.2.4 Maybe it's a joke to you but not to me. Only on flac and up until now it had never happened. I'm pretty sure it's faster than a cell phone. These jokes only go so far as I'm only able now to connect to mysqueezebox.com when my computer is on. Both of these things are not funny and not the best of things. I'm very worried if my computer is off I'll not be able to use my SB3 and also I'm very worried that I'm not going to be able to use all my flac music that i've already been able to use for 3 years. I didn't read the rest of the post already so I'm sorry if I got ahead of myself. I love my SB3 and don't want it to become obsolete because no one cares about it. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
GeeJay;519260 Wrote: One of the things I've learned from these forums is that you may not be doing anything differently, but the environment in which the system operates may have changed. In your case, it's a move to a new home. There may be interference that didn't exist in your own home. I remember a year or so ago my system started acting up (rebuffering and sync problems). Same computer, same network, same SB setup, I don't think I was even running very many FLAC files at the time. Turns out my wife started using the treadmill upstairs at the same time I was listening, and it was wreaking havoc with my powerline adapters! Back to point: I've never been able to figure out why I can't stream FLAC w/o interruption at 70% signal strength when so many others can. Fortunately, I was able to make enough minor adjustments (SB placement, moving and hardwiring my PC to the router) that I finally got it all to work. This, and the other poster's suggestions, have helped me isolate the problem. Here's what I did: 1. I found out that right next to the huge antennas of my wireless access point there was a mains cable. It probably caused pretty bad interference. I moved the cable away from the access point and this helped ensure stable connections on laptops connecting to it. However, no luck with the squeezebox, which still behaved erraticly. Strangely enough the rebuffering problem is no longer, but now the squeezebox controller is constantly prompting me to change the library because it can't find the server. Usually I don't even have enough time to browse to a track I want to hear before the menu structure is reset and I'm prompted to switch to another library. 2. So I decided to connect the receiver with an ethernet cable to my router. When resetting the controller and the receiver and setting the whole thing up again, the SB prompted me to connect using the SB player or a wireless network. I connected through the player and now everything works like a charm. Once set up, I can also use the web remote control interface on the server to play music. Response is very snappy - no delays, interruptions or anything like that. So it looks like things are fixed, as long as I don't use the access point. Either wireless connection through the player (with limited range), or remote web control from my computer work very well again. -- kunlun121 kunlun121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18101 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Phil Leigh;518796 Wrote: It's possible that your problems are not network related at the hardware level but at the IP level - possible IP/MAC address conflicts or packet collisions. If you want to fix this, disconnect EVERYTHING except your router, SBS machine and SB hardware. Then reboot all three of those starting with the router and see if the problem persists. If not, there is a conflict with another device. Turn them on one by one, testing the SB at each stage to see what happens. It could be the Access point that is the problem. If the problem exists with only the SB, Router and SBS server running and wired together I don't know what to suggest other than to double check the MAC addresses of both parts of the Duet are correct and that they have unique IP addresses. Thank you very much for your reply. I'm having some trouble trying this tho. My router is wired - no wireless functionality. So the controller won't be able to connect if i eliminate the access point. But I guess I can wire the router to the squeezebox receiver and see if that works by accessing it from the web interface on the computer. Without having tried this I expect the access point to be the problem, but I will test this theory using your method. What's a packet collision and how does one deal with that? My router has an option for dealing with packet collisions. It's called Excessive Collision Mode and let me choose for discard or restart. By default it's in discard mode. Have not noticed an improvement by changing this setting. IP-MAC address conflicts are likely not the problem. My router allows me to bind MAC addresses to IP addresses. All SB hardware and my SBS computer have their IP addresses bound to their MAC address, so they're kind of static despite being distributed through the DHCP function of my router. -- kunlun121 kunlun121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18101 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
GeeJay;519049 Wrote: I found that even 75%-80% wireless strength wasn't enough when streaming FLAC files. It has to be over 90% for me to avoid performance issues. Thank you too. I'm not sure if this is the problem however. In my old house I used a Belkin modem/router combination machine. Worked flawlessly - never seen the machine rebuffer ever. I'm pretty sure it didn't reach 90% signal strength consistently, probably much more likely around 70. I never had a problem in 2 years, not even when adding several laptops to the wireless while playing music. And that was all AIFF files too. -- kunlun121 kunlun121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18101 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
kunlun121;519096 Wrote: Thank you very much for your reply. I'm having some trouble trying this tho. My router is wired - no wireless functionality. So the controller won't be able to connect if i eliminate the access point. But I guess I can wire the router to the squeezebox receiver and see if that works by accessing it from the web interface on the computer. Without having tried this I expect the access point to be the problem, but I will test this theory using your method. What's a packet collision and how does one deal with that? My router has an option for dealing with packet collisions. It's called Excessive Collision Mode and let me choose for discard or restart. By default it's in discard mode. Have not noticed an improvement by changing this setting. IP-MAC address conflicts are likely not the problem. My router allows me to bind MAC addresses to IP addresses. All SB hardware and my SBS computer have their IP addresses bound to their MAC address, so they're kind of static despite being distributed through the DHCP function of my router. Ah- hadn't realised you had a discrete AP that wasn't in your router. Packet collisions occur when two devices try and send a paket at the same time to the same device. Usually file-transfers are the biggest culprit. Probably not that. Since you are using semi-static IP's (which is a good thing), you need to double check that your SB hardware boxes have not cloned the MAC addresses of each other - this usually happens on SB3's for some reason. Check the mac address on the label against the address reported by the device itself. The other somewhat related thing that can happen is a corruption of server.prefs file which also has MAC-binding encoded within it. To check this, stop SBS, backup your server.prefs file somewhere then delete or rename the original and restart SBS. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
kunlun121;519097 Wrote: Thank you too. I'm not sure if this is the problem however. In my old house I used a Belkin modem/router combination machine. Worked flawlessly - never seen the machine rebuffer ever. I'm pretty sure it didn't reach 90% signal strength consistently, probably much more likely around 70. I never had a problem in 2 years, not even when adding several laptops to the wireless while playing music. And that was all AIFF files too. One of the things I've learned from these forums is that you may not be doing anything differently, but the environment in which the system operates may have changed. In your case, it's a move to a new home. There may be interference that didn't exist in your own home. I remember a year or so ago my system started acting up (rebuffering and sync problems). Same computer, same network, same SB setup, I don't think I was even running very many FLAC files at the time. Turns out my wife started using the treadmill upstairs and it was wreaking havoc with my powerline adapters! Back to point: I've never been able to figure out why I can't stream FLAC w/o interruption at 70% signal strength when so many others can. Fortunately, I was able to make enough minor adjustments (SB placement, moving and hardwiring my PC to the router) that I finally got it to all work. -- GeeJay GeeJay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
^^^ moving from channel 6 to 1 has lead to squeezebox heaven for me. 3 sb all wireless synced without a hiccup for a couple of weeks now! -- wonder boy wonder boy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
audioch;515821 Wrote: I am using SB3 wireless , 7.4.1, firmware 130 and play 24/96 AIFF files (heck even tried 24/352 and its fine) with FLAC stream format + SOX decoder. But, 24/96 WAV files using FLAC stream format + SOX decoder will not play--constant rebuffering. The AIFF and WAV files are the same size, so it shouldn't be a file size or streamimng problem. Is there a known bug or problem with WAV to FLAC to SOX? Thanx. What is the hardware ? SOX reencoding of hirez do use some cpu much more than other transcoding =1,2mHz x86 cpu *with* fpu (floiting point math ). Is sufficient. check your cpu usage during this different processes. But thats quite ot for this tread -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBR to be stuffed in a box in the attic ) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
kunlun121;518690 Wrote: Me too... Having just moved into a new house, rebuffering problems started occurring. Because the new house is much larger than the old one, I couldn't suffice with a single wireless access point. With my laptop in the room where my stereo is I couldn't pick up the signal of the wireless router, that was wired to my server. So I invested in new hardware. I am now using a wired network with one of the fastest wired routers on the market (Draytek Vigor 2130). A very powerful wireless access point is wired to this router. I mean, if a pigeon flies by too close to it, it's likely to disappear in a puff of feathers. Signal strength on my Squeezebox Duet is indicated to be high (around or over 90% when no other wireless devices are present in the room, dropping to 75-80% when my wife's watching TV on her laptop over the wireless). Still, I am having problems with rebuffering. It's so bad that it's impossible to listen to music over the squeezebox. It starts after about 20 seconds into the first track and it's downhill from there: nothing but interruptions, hiccups, and stuttering. Sometimes the squeezebox can't even connect to my squeezeserver's library. I play uncompressed aiff files (regular 16bit/44.1KHz encoded). The squeezebox's network tester indicates a clean 100% bandwidth @ 5000kbps on the Duet's handset. In the performance menu the priority of the squeezebox has been set at -20 (highest). The home network (both the wired machines and the ones connected wirelessly to the access point) allows for very high download speeds over my cable internet connection. Wired and wireless I can download files from the internet at a stable 46Mbit/s. So data is flowing quite effortlessly. I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, so forgive me if I'm writing stuff that's already been covered. But I get the feeling that the problem is related to latency in my network. The new router provides for all sorts of QoS and bandwidth management mechanisms, port prioritizing, etc. Don't know how to turn it all off or if it's even impacting the flow of bits. Oh, I'm on OSX snow leopard and running squeezebox server 7.4.1. My receiver has firmware 65. No solution, but will keep looking. It's possible that your problems are not network related at the hardware level but at the IP level - possible IP/MAC address conflicts or packet collisions. If you want to fix this, disconnect EVERYTHING except your router, SBS machine and SB hardware. Then reboot all three of those starting with the router and see if the problem persists. If not, there is a conflict with another device. Turn them on one by one, testing the SB at each stage to see what happens. It could be the Access point that is the problem. If the problem exists with only the SB, Router and SBS server running and wired together I don't know what to suggest other than to double check the MAC addresses of both parts of the Duet are correct and that they have unique IP addresses. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I found that even 75%-80% wireless strength wasn't enough when streaming FLAC files. It has to be over 90% for me to avoid performance issues. -- GeeJay GeeJay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11388 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Me too... Having just moved into a new house, rebuffering problems started occurring. Because the new house is much larger than the old one, I couldn't suffice with a single wireless access point. With my laptop in the room where my stereo is I couldn't pick up the signal of the wireless router, that was wired to my server. So I invested in new hardware. I am now using a wired network with one of the fastest wired routers on the market (Draytek Vigor 2130). A very powerful wireless access point is wired to this router. I mean, if a pigeon flies by too close to it, it's likely to disappear in a puff of feathers. Signal strength on my Squeezebox Duet is indicated to be high (around or over 90% when no other wireless devices are present in the room, dropping to 75-80% when my wife's watching TV on her laptop over the wireless). Still, I am having problems with rebuffering. It's so bad that it's impossible to listen to music over the squeezebox. It starts after about 20 seconds into the first track and it's downhill from there: nothing but interruptions, hiccups, and stuttering. Sometimes the squeezebox can't even connect to my squeezeserver's library. I play uncompressed aiff files (regular 16bit/44.1KHz encoded). The squeezebox's network tester indicates a clean 100% bandwidth @ 5000kbps on the Duet's handset. In the performance menu the priority of the squeezebox has been set at -20 (highest). The home network (both the wired machines and the ones connected wirelessly to the access point) allows for very high download speeds over my cable internet connection. Wired and wireless I can download files from the internet at a stable 46Mbit/s. So data is flowing quite effortlessly. I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, so forgive me if I'm writing stuff that's already been covered. But I get the feeling that the problem is related to latency in my network. The new router provides for all sorts of QoS and bandwidth management mechanisms, port prioritizing, etc. Don't know how to turn it all off or if it's even impacting the flow of bits. Oh, I'm on OSX snow leopard and running squeezebox server 7.4.1. My receiver has firmware 65. No solution, but will keep looking. -- kunlun121 kunlun121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18101 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I am using SB3 wireless , 7.4.1, firmware 130 and play 24/96 AIFF files (heck even tried 24/352 and its fine) with FLAC stream format + SOX decoder. But, 24/96 WAV files using FLAC stream format + SOX decoder will not play--constant rebuffering. The AIFF and WAV files are the same size, so it shouldn't be a file size or streamimng problem. Is there a known bug or problem with WAV to FLAC to SOX? Thanx. -- audioch audioch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33636 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I've reported a bug in the OS priorities used on the Windows platform that I think contributes to this problem. Please vote for it:- https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15650 - Greg -- GregD GregD's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=248 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I am occasionally experiencing rebuffering when playing music, it seems to be the case when I synch 2 or more (never more than 4) players. In fact, it is happening with every song I am listening to right now. The songs stop and SBS seems to be in a ten second loop in timing, but goes silent, then it resumes just to do it again or to successfully continue (as it does it again). Sometimes it gets stuck in the exact same point in a song repeatedly. Thus eliminating any possibility that it is random wireless behavior. The log file states *nothing* even though there clearly is a problem. When this happens, I restart the computer (and thus SBS) and than seems to fix the issue. It's happened a dozen times since I got 7.4.1, I listen to music daily. I can't recall it ever happening on the one player I have that is never synched with anything else, on which I always listen to music for at least an hour a day while I work out in the morning.. This is something that 7.4.1 introduced, I very very very seldom saw this type of behavior before. I think it may be a synching issue. -- pablolie ...pablo Server: Shuttle X27D - Ubuntu 8.04LTS - SBS 7.4.1 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet (1), Radio (1), Accuphase DP65v CD (used as DAC mostly) Amplifiers: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I was having re-buffering issues as well. Turned out my problems were, 1 interference and 2 weak Access-point. I live in Amsterdam and there are SO many wlan's around me that the biggest problem for me was interference. I used wifiradar (Linux) to see what channels were being used around me and set my channel as far away from the rest. I also had a very small and simple access-point/router Linksys WRT54GC v2. I noticed that after a while my access point flooded itself and was not able to transmit continuously, resulting in re-buffering. Once I rebooted (power off/on)everything worked again. I bought myself the Linksys WRT54G with linux on it and replaced the firmware with dd-wrt firmware. Now everything is golden. The dd-wrt firmware has the following benefits: - throughput of streaming audio has priority (and you can change the priority) - wireless signal quality per client can be seen - wireless tx power can be increased - schedule a reboot (reboot my router every night at 5am) - add a hotspot service (has nothing to do with squeezebox server, but is handy to allow visitors easy access when needed) - . and much more Now I have a very stable squeezebox network. A sheevaplug as server with the latest squeezebox software, the new router AND NO MORE RE-BUFFERING (finally) -- Robedubdub Robedubdub's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33347 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
wonder boy;513004 Wrote: Changed channel from 6 to 1 and had seamless playing on all 3 all evening. Will see if it remains so tomorrow. Great. That means you probably were experiencing interference on channel 6. -- Pascal Hibon __ 2 x SB3 - both wireless, ReadyNAS NV+ running SBS, iPeng on iPod Touch. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I ran net stumbler and as I suspected there are no other signals in my immediate area. I live in a semi-rural area with a fair distance between houses most of which are occupied by the aging retired! Will look at the channel my router is on and may try and change it if I can figure out how. -- wonder boy wonder boy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
NetStumbler is a very good tool but it will only read signals coming from Access Points. It cannot read or detect signals from other sources (read, sources that are not formatting the wireless signals as AP do). It still is possible that there is another source active on the 2.4GHz band causing interference with your home network. This is something that Wi-Spy (Chanalyzer) can detect. Unfortunately, this is not a free utility. You can try setting the channel of your AP to 1, 6 and 11 consecutively and test what the results are on each of those channels. I havent seen a situation where the complete WiFi band was suffering from interference. There is a good change youll find a channel that works fine for you (if you really are experiencing interference). -- Pascal Hibon __ 2 x SB3 - both wireless, ReadyNAS NV+ running SBS, iPeng on iPod Touch. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Just my 2 cents... If the router is old, replace it with a new one (they don't last forever) My new LinkSys WRT54GL is a dream, great signal strength Try to get AP closer, moved mine and it now works great for my wireless SB3s and gave the opportunity to Ethernet the Duet Change the channel on router, seems to make a bit of difference for me. Cheers Ebin -- ebin ebin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8097 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;512974 Wrote: NetStumbler is a very good tool but it will only read signals coming from Access Points. It cannot read or detect signals from other sources (read, sources that are not formatting the wireless signals as AP do). It still is possible that there is another source active on the 2.4GHz band causing interference with your home network. This is something that Wi-Spy (Chanalyzer) can detect. Unfortunately, this is not a free utility. You can try setting the channel of your AP to 1, 6 and 11 consecutively and test what the results are on each of those channels. I havent seen a situation where the complete WiFi band was suffering from interference. There is a good change youll find a channel that works fine for you (if you really are experiencing interference). Changed channel from 6 to 1 and had seamless playing on all 3 all evening. Will see if it remains so tomorrow. -- wonder boy wonder boy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I think it is worth reiterating the advice in this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=477794#post477794 I had a similar situation with rebuffering after moving my server to a new installation on WHS. I had previously used a fairly powerful desktop pc, and never had any rebuffering problems. After porting to a fresh install on Windows Home Server, I had one of those Oh no, what have I done? moments, as I would constantly get rebuffering, regardless of streaming bandwidth (frequently on internet radio, for example). After following the cache cleaning advice, (and tweaking my.tt for good measure), I have totally cured the problem. Now I'll be the first to scratch my head over this. Why should a clean, vanilla install on WHS have such problems, only to be sorted by a cache clean and re-scan? I don't know, but I'm very happy with the results. -- browellm Modwright Transporter Kondo M7 Art Audio Quintet, Border Patrol PS Living Voice IBX/R2 http://www.last.fm/user/browellm browellm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Im also on one of the nightly builds of 7.4.2. Until now I havent experienced rebuffering anymore. In my case, 7.3.3 was the source of rebuffering. -- Pascal Hibon __ 2 x SB3 - both wireless, ReadyNAS NV+ running SBS, iPeng on iPod Touch. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
On 7.4.2 with 3 wifi players. Reasonably stable at the mo, though can't believe what the microwave does to the signal. I have found that increasing the minimum sync adjustment (as well as making sure all are the same which they weren't) and also the sync players start up delay has helped. Annoyingly any rebuffering I get is intermittent, I think the neighbour must be hammering the microwave meals...HTH -- wonder boy wonder boy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
wonder boy;512693 Wrote: Annoyingly any rebuffering I get is intermittent, I think the neighbour must be hammering the microwave meals...HTH Many if not most 'baby monitors', cordless phones, 'tv extenders' and wireless alarm systems spew junk on 2.4Ghz. It's unlicensed because it is not all that great a frequency range to begin with and so everyone uses it.. which makes it more junky. They don't need to be radiating their food to plasma, just watching TV with one of those I am too cheap to run Cable to the bedroom, so I'll use a 2.4Ghz TV relayer to send it from the living room... boxes. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
This video indicates that some cars can be a source of Wifi interference. Not sure how valid the test is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0oF0eq6mPI -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Its true that some alien devices such as TV extenders etc use the 2.4GHz band as well. Especially the TV extenders can be a source for interference since they use directional antennas with relatively high gain. In most cases, it is possible to keep your home wireless network free from interference. It all comes down to selecting the right channels. What most people are not aware of is that you should try to use only channel 1, 6 or 11 in a 2.4GHz band although 11 channels (FCC) or 13 channels (ETSI) are available. These three channels are non-overlapping channels and so they can provide the full bandwidth available. Not everyone will be able to site survey their home environment but there are a few simple applications available that provide basic but useful information in order to properly setup your home wireless. 1. NetStumbler: http://www.netstumbler.com/downloads/ This free utility scans the environment for wireless networks. It will tell you on what channels they are active. With this basic test you can see with channels are occupied and so you can configure your own network to operate on a free channel. If no channel is free, then select one were the used signal is weak (low SNR level). NetStumbler is able to see networks that are not broadcasting their SSIDs as well. It is a very good tool. 2. Some Windows drivers provide basic channel information (like NetStumbler) as well. For example: Intel, Toshiba etc. If yours doesnt provide it then use NetStumbler. 3. Another one, more complex and chargeable, is Wi-Spy: http://www.metageek.net/ Wi-Spy is also able to run a recording over a longer period of time. This will provide you with a better view of what is going on in the 2.4GHz band. We use this at work during site surveys and when customers complain about response times. Works great. Hope this helps. -- Pascal Hibon __ 2 x SB3 - both wireless, ReadyNAS NV+ running SBS, iPeng on iPod Touch. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I'm using 7.4.1 on my Readynas Duo these days, and I've only had very isolated experiences with gappy playback or rebuffering errors lately. I think the playback may have broken up once, and that could've been wi-fi interference from the microwave or something. Granted, by posting this I'm jinxing myself, but I think it's at least as important to announce when things are going right as when things are going badly. Partly in response to this thread, a bug (#13092) was created for this issue, and the work on that bug may have resulted in this problem being corrected in the latest version of the server software - or, maybe my stars aligned. Anyway, I appreciate the efforts that were made to address this problem. Thanks. Chris -- benthos benthos's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I get 100% with my wireless all through the test range, so the network is not the problem with the buffering. It never ever happened until I went from 7.4.1 to7.4.2 and then I started having some problems. Only with flac and I was shocked at first because I had never experienced it before. Something definitely has changed. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
my buffering problems started after I upgraded to 7.3.3 from 7.3.2. My library is mostly iTunes AAC format and they played fine (via a custom-convert) in 7.3.2 from my Linkstation Live (to a squeezebox classic, wireless strength around 70%). Only thing to have changed is the upgrade to 7.3.3. I'm partway converting them all to mp3, but may pause that and monitor this thread and the associated bug for a possible fix. -- Andy Cudlip Andy Cudlip's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19672 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
My rebuffering experience also started with 7.3.3. It went away when downgrading to 7.2.1 again. But on the support guys request I went back to 7.3.3 to capture log files. Since I enabled performance logging I never experienced a rebuffering no more. I went onto 7.4.1 and now on 7.4.2 and still no rebuffering. I must say that 7.4.1 and .2 are amazingly a lot better in performance in general too. If you havent upgraded yet, this is something to consider. I installed the latest 7.4.2 to resolve a plop sound issue at the end of a song on my wav files. Works fine so far. One thing to remember if you upgrade from 7.3 to 7.4 is to perform a complete rescan of your music library. -- Pascal Hibon __ 2 x SB3 - both wireless, ReadyNAS NV+ running SBS, iPeng on iPod Touch. Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I have found that rebuffering problem can be partly cured by setting up Artwork resizing instead of Artwork resampling in Squeezebox Server - Advanced - Performance tab. Also the Classic skin seems to be less demanding of bandwith than the Default skin. -- alto63 http://www.bartimexaudio.hu Bartimex Audio - High-end audio equipments and accessories! alto63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
after reading this thread, i ran network test, which i hadn't done in a while. slow performance at the higher data rates. the little wall wart thingy i use to extend my wireless network needed to be reset. now, network test shows almost 100% avg on highest data rate. hadn't been listening to flacs in a while, so didn't notice the rebuffering until now. i hope you find the problem. i -- markchev markchev's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I never had another re-buffering experience since I replaced the Synology 207+ to 209+II. I guess the performance of the source is relatively important. I am now streaming via WiFi without any glitch... -- OutdoorXplorer 2TB Synology 209+II ~ SlimDevices SqueezeBox Classic ~ Zu ASH 75#937; Digital Coaxial ~ MHDT Labs Havana ~ VdH D102 Hybrid MKIII ~ WooAudio 6 SE(M) ~ Stefan AudioArts Equinox Noir ~Sennheiser HD650 OutdoorXplorer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30977 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Hi Everyone, I don't know if this question was answered in a previous thread or post, I did run a search on the forum and came back with 0 results. I have a number of dvd-audio discs. I have ripped a few of them to my server but squeezebox (classic) won't play them back without rebuffering every few seconds. I rip them to .wav files. The squeezebox is connected wirelessly. I also own a popcorn hour and this plays the dvd-audio hi-res stereo flawlessly.The popcorn hour is connected to the wireless modem/router via network cable (standard cat5). I guess I'm wondering if this is why I can't play the same files on the classic? One being cabled and the other being wireless? Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated. Many thanks Symi -- symi symi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15975 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Go into SqueezeCenter and view the Server Status page. On there it'll show you the wireless signal strength. A cabled solution will be 100Mb or 1000Mb, whereas wireless will be 54 Mb at best. if your signal strnegth is poor then you'll start hitting problems. I've got three SB3 players, all connecting wirelessly. If the signal is below 50% I get buffering, so I've moved them all around slightly and now they all show around 85%-90% and no buffering, not even from FLAC. Jim -- jimwillsher jimwillsher's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=410 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Cheers Jim, I will have a look at that and thanks. I would like to be able to listen to everything in my collection thru the squeezebox its the best gadget in the world for music.. Symi -- symi symi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15975 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
symi;462457 Wrote: Cheers Jim, I will have a look at that and thanks. I would like to be able to listen to everything in my collection thru the squeezebox its the best gadget in the world for music.. Symi Is there any reason why you are using wav instead of a compressed lossless codec such as FLAC? The wav files take 2-3 times the bandwidth of FLAC, and the audio quality is identical. Also, does the rebuffering occur only with your high-res files? If that's the case then it could be because your server is struggling to do the downsampling needed to supply the SB3, which does not support high-res natively. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Hi Jim, The reason I ripped the files to wav rather than flac is because I was having trouble with the flac encoder.I think the version of flac that I was using was struggling with the long files. The rest of my music files are in flac format. And yes, the rebuffering only occurs with the hi-res tracks. The server has 2GB RAM. Cheers Symi -- symi symi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15975 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
symi;462751 Wrote: Hi Jim, The reason I ripped the files to wav rather than flac is because I was having trouble with the flac encoder.I think the version of flac that I was using was struggling with the long files. The rest of my music files are in flac format. And yes, the rebuffering only occurs with the hi-res tracks. The server has 2GB RAM. Cheers Symi Are you ripping DVDA as one big file + cue :) -- Mnyb No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I had the rebufferring issue since I received the SB3 months back. I just upgraded the Synology 207+ to 209+II and the issue was solved immediately. I am enjoying every pieces of the music collection I have in the NAS. No more worry of forwarding tracks -- OutdoorXplorer 2TB Synology 207+ ~ SlimDevices SqueezeBox Classic ~ Zu ASH 75#937; Digital Coaxial ~ MHDT Labs Havana ~ VdH D102 Hybrid MKIII ~ WooAudio 6 SE(M) ~ Stefan AudioArts Equinox Noir ~Sennheiser HD650 OutdoorXplorer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30977 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
In short ... my new router seems to have solved the problems ... or at least for the 4 hours of playback last night I didn't get any rebuffering. Decided to just switch off the old router and use the new router by itself, i.e. not having an independent wireless network for SC/SB. The misses Vista laptop was complaining like hell and couldn't get on the network, even though my XP was fine ... but that's another story. At first, the new router didn't seem to resolve the problem, until I rotated the two antenna's 90 degrees away from each other, so they are basically laying flat. The router is in the room above the SB3, so maybe this orientation is optimal for vertical coverage. This seemed to make a big difference. My laptop is now getting 130mbps, and the SB3 didn't rebuffer once. I even had a Mythbuntu PC bridged through it and did an upgrade whilst playing FLACs. The download to the Mythbuntu PC was running at around 260kbps, the FLAC was averaging 800kbps, there were two laptops on the wireless network, both using remote desktop and at the same time I was copying files on the HDD's the FLACs were on. I was amazed that rebuffering never happened once, and the peak of traffic between tracks didn't even cause problems. I even played a 24/48 FLAC with no problem, which averaged about 1500kbps. I did try a 24/96 FLAC, but rebuffering occurred, which I think was due to SOX transcoding on my SC machine, rather than wireless bandwidth. I just hope it lasts. Things like antenna orientation and router placement don't give me a warm feeling. Especially if it turns out that it was just because the wind was in the right direction!! -- mprocte1 mprocte1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I would like to invite everyone who experiences rebuffering to visit the threads on the bug report found here: https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092 We are in need of logs to determine the root cause of the issue. The more input we get, the faster we will see a resolution. -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Just an update on my testing last night ... Streaming FLAC to laptop over wireless playing with VLC did have a couple of buffering issues, but they were recovered quickly and with far fewer occurrences. With just the SB3 on the wireless network, playback was okay, but still with a few rebufferring events. As soon as the misses switched on her laptop (wireless), the SB3 was unusable with rebufferring events. Seems that I have a wireless bandwidth issue for sure, which I'm hoping the new router will resolve ... hopefully arriving today/tomorrow. However, the SB3's inability to recover within a short period of time and then just dropping out and freezing up is a real pain. What logs are needed to investigate this issue, and I'll post them where needed? -- mprocte1 mprocte1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
mprocte1;454024 Wrote: Just an update on my testing last night ... Streaming FLAC to laptop over wireless playing with VLC did have a couple of buffering issues, but they were recovered quickly and with far fewer occurrences. With just the SB3 on the wireless network, playback was okay, but still with a few rebufferring events. It would be very useful to provide some logs (as requested in the bug report) when running this test. Can you do that? -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
mprocte1;454024 Wrote: Seems that I have a wireless bandwidth issue for sure, which I'm hoping the new router will resolve ... hopefully arriving today/tomorrow. Have you tried using different wireless channels? You could also use a tool like netstumbler to see what other networks you have in your area and what channels they are using. -- awy awy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7480 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
mprocte1;454024 Wrote: Just an update on my testing last night ... Streaming FLAC to laptop over wireless playing with VLC did have a couple of buffering issues, but they were recovered quickly and with far fewer occurrences. With just the SB3 on the wireless network, playback was okay, but still with a few rebufferring events. As soon as the misses switched on her laptop (wireless), the SB3 was unusable with rebufferring events. Seems that I have a wireless bandwidth issue for sure, which I'm hoping the new router will resolve ... hopefully arriving today/tomorrow. However, the SB3's inability to recover within a short period of time and then just dropping out and freezing up is a real pain. What logs are needed to investigate this issue, and I'll post them where needed? As soon as *other* equipment enter the wifi mix all bets are off. There is a finite bandwidth available if an wireless PC visit an website with lots of adds or is doing an upgrade, or running a torrent client ;) what do you expect ? How is music streaming going to react while other stuff is running on the network. One can have more than one network/different AP for the computers than the squeezeboxes or use N router and let the PC's wotk on the N channel. If you are listening to internet radio you have a router with Qos functions, this works quite ok I tried that and managed to tune those fillters so I could use a torrentclient while listening to radio -- Mnyb No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;454012 Wrote: I would like to invite everyone who experiences rebuffering to visit the threads on the bug report found here: https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092 We are in need of logs to determine the root cause of the issue. The more input we get, the faster we will see a resolution. That's ok, but please do not just dump anything to do with rebuffering into that bug. Specifically, if you have or suspect a wireless connectivity issue then do not use that bug. That bug is for investigating why streaming seems to have problems under some circumstance in 7.3 that were not present in 7.2. And remember that 7.2 was not -capable- of getting into a rebuffering state with FLAC or anything transcoded to FLAC. In that case you just got gappy output. -- awy awy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7480 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;454053 Wrote: It would be very useful to provide some logs (as requested in the bug report) when running this test. Can you do that? As requested ... what logs do you need ... I've only had SC/SB for a couple of weeks so it's all new to me. awy;454055 Wrote: Have you tried using different wireless channels? You could also use a tool like netstumbler to see what other networks you have in your area and what channels they are using. I've changed channels, with little difference. I've tried those which no-one in my neighbourhood appear to use (or show up in my WiFi site monitor). It's not clear if general interference on those channels is the problem. Does Netstumbler show any info on this? RxQual or something? I'll install it tonight and see if it shows anything. -- mprocte1 mprocte1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Mnyb;454060 Wrote: As soon as *other* equipment enter the wifi mix all bets are off. There is a finite bandwidth available if an wireless PC visit an website with lots of adds or is doing an upgrade, or running a torrent client ;) what do you expect ? How is music streaming going to react while other stuff is running on the network. One can have more than one network/different AP for the computers than the squeezeboxes or use N router and let the PC's wotk on the N channel. If you are listening to internet radio you have a router with Qos functions, this works quite ok I tried that and managed to tune those fillters so I could use a torrentclient while listening to radio Good point. I might use my old router then just to service my SB3's, and the new one for general PC use. Assuming you can make a DG834G act as just an AP. -- mprocte1 mprocte1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
My experience, in case it is useful: Running 7.3.2 on Linux server, wired to Zoom X6 gateway router (firmware 2.1.5 from 2007), wireless G to SB3, streaming flac and internet radio. After installing 7.3.2 back in March, things worked pretty well for a couple of months and then gradually degraded to the point of near unusability, with frequent 'rebufferings' and 'cannot connect'. I wondered whether new software had been pushed to player without notification. A wireless laptop running Vista sitting close to the SB3 kept working fine with long downloads from internet or hours-long back ups and maintenance of music library on the remote server. Most frustrating was internet radio - player would connect for maybe a minute or two and then stop, sometimes reconnecting after another minute or two, but more often just 'cannot connect' - player would freeze and be unable to change to music library or scroll through radio stations. Direct radio streaming from internet to a computer worked OK, so it wasn't just that the radio station was kicking out the connection. When the SB3 wouldn't connect and offered the option to try again or go left, re-attempting the connection still would not connect at all for long enough to get sound out of the player, even after multiple tries, yet the nearby laptop kept connecting without problem. Just the other day I purchased a new router, Linksys WRT160N, and am running it in wireless-G mode. All my 'cannot connect' and 'rebufferings' seem to have vanished, the Squeezebox is working great again. So I evidently had network problems that were causing my difficulty. I don't think the problem was wireless signal strength, since the laptop near the SB3 connected fine, and with the new router, the strength in the SB3 player is still only 45% or so. So I wonder whether perhaps older routers don't handle the streaming or hand-shaking as well for some reason. Or that the error-handling in the SB3 was not very robust and when radio station got lost or the connection broke for whatever reason, the player couldn't recover properly. Anyway, I wonder whether Logitech couldn't do something to improve the robustness of the SB3 performance, even on suboptimal networks. I remember back in the 90's when the Sun computer company (big unix installations) suddenly realized it was not enough just to list the requirements of a proper operating environment, but that their customers simply weren't able to establish or maintain those by themselves. The company CEO wrote that it was like a revelation, and that it became part of the company's job to help them maintain those. Logitech obviously can't maintain home networks for people, but perhaps they could provide a suite of tools or other robust evaluation procedures to pinpoint where the network problems are. Anyway, I am glad my Squeezebox is working reliably again, and I apologize to it for all those bad thoughts I had about it being a piece of crap. Swimmer -- Swimmerbird123 Swimmerbird123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17285 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Swimmerbird123;454065 Wrote: My experience, in case it is useful: Running 7.3.2 on Linux server, wired to Zoom X6 gateway router (firmware 2.1.5 from 2007), wireless G to SB3, streaming flac and internet radio. After installing 7.3.2 back in March, things worked pretty well for a couple of months and then gradually degraded to the point of near unusability, with frequent 'rebufferings' and 'cannot connect'. I wondered whether new software had been pushed to player without notification. A wireless laptop running Vista sitting close to the SB3 kept working fine with long downloads from internet or hours-long back ups and maintenance of music library on the remote server. Most frustrating was internet radio - player would connect for maybe a minute or two and then stop, sometimes reconnecting after another minute or two, but more often just 'cannot connect' - player would freeze and be unable to change to music library or scroll through radio stations. Direct radio streaming from internet to a computer worked OK, so it wasn't just that the radio station was kicking out the connection. When the SB3 wouldn't connect and offered the option to try again or go left, re-attempting the connection still would not connect at all for long enough to get sound out of the player, even after multiple tries, yet the nearby laptop kept connecting without problem. Just the other day I purchased a new router, Linksys WRT160N, and am running it in wireless-G mode. All my 'cannot connect' and 'rebufferings' seem to have vanished, the Squeezebox is working great again. So I evidently had network problems that were causing my difficulty. I don't think the problem was wireless signal strength, since the laptop near the SB3 connected fine, and with the new router, the strength in the SB3 player is still only 45% or so. So I wonder whether perhaps older routers don't handle the streaming or hand-shaking as well for some reason. Or that the error-handling in the SB3 was not very robust and when radio station got lost or the connection broke for whatever reason, the player couldn't recover properly. Anyway, I wonder whether Logitech couldn't do something to improve the robustness of the SB3 performance, even on suboptimal networks. I remember back in the 90's when the Sun computer company (big unix installations) suddenly realized it was not enough just to list the requirements of a proper operating environment, but that their customers simply weren't able to establish or maintain those by themselves. The company CEO wrote that it was like a revelation, and that it became part of the company's job to help them maintain those. Logitech obviously can't maintain home networks for people, but perhaps they could provide a suite of tools or other robust evaluation procedures to pinpoint where the network problems are. Anyway, I am glad my Squeezebox is working reliably again, and I apologize to it for all those bad thoughts I had about it being a piece of crap. Swimmer They have some rudimentary tools, the wireless strength number (btw 45% is low ? ) alas logitech should come forward with some numbers that y% is enough for mp3 streams and x% is enough for flac or similar. And have you seen the network test in squeezecenter or the controller ? You can test different streamingrates from very low rates and up to 5000kbps knowing that a flac stream is roughly 800kpbs you know what to expect. The controller has a diagnostic setting that can tell the IP settings in your players and see if you can connect your server or squeezenetwork ( I think this is in beta ? ) it even pings squeezenetwork. -- Mnyb No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Thanks, I hadn't run the test, but it looks helpful. Now I get 100% on all rates except 5000, which jumps between 80% and 100%. This morning I am streaming a European radio station from here in the US with no problem, with wireless strength in the SB3 fluctuating between 38% and 46%. I haven't tried optimizing the position of the new router so maybe that can improve. My point is simply that even at these low strengths, the streaming can work perfectly well. The problem seems to have been in the hand-shaking somewhere, either the old router or the SB3 or both. My laptop could pick up and hold a signal when the SB3 was not able to connect at all. So it wasn't just a faulty router. And the SB3 would either freeze or have delayed responses to the remote of 15 seconds or more. That's not just bad connectivity, it seems to me to reflect bad error processing of some kind in the SB3. I don't know enough about the particulars of network interface programming to go any further than that though. Swimmer -- Swimmerbird123 Swimmerbird123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17285 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
mprocte1;454061 Wrote: As requested ... what logs do you need ... I've only had SC/SB for a couple of weeks so it's all new to me. The required logs are well documented in the bug report: https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092 Basically, a copy of your SqueezeCenter log and a Performance Log are required. -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Listening to music (FLAC) over the weekend has been ruined by this 'rebuffering' issue. Tried a direct Ethernet cable, which seemed to resolve the issue, at least for the remaining hour of listening last night. Will test further tonight. I've had SB3's for just over 2 weeks now, so I'm running SC 7.3.3 and have never known any different. It's on a Dual Core Ubuntu 9.04 machine with 2GB RAM. CPU usage doesn't show any signs of maxing out. Due to my testing results so far, my first thoughts are my wireless network, with the SB3 getting around 80% signal. Got an old DG834G which has been okay for the last 5 years, but is getting a bit old. So I've just ordered a DGN2000 in the hope that this will help. Anyway ... I've voted on bug 13092 to give this bug more weight, in the hope that the streaming mechanism in SC will be improved, just encase it turns out to be the issue, or a contributing factor. This is especially true with the fact that the rebuffering ended up freezing up my SB3 to the extent that I had to pull the power ... on several occasions. Maybe this is bug 9393, which I've also voted on. I'll try some tests tonight with streaming the FLACs over wireless to my laptop, and see if I get any performance/buffering issues there. -- mprocte1 mprocte1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32280 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
maggior;447280 Wrote: My plan of action: 1) I ordered a pair of homeplugs for the kitchen SBR - CAT-5 to the kitchen just isn't an option. I'm tired of having to screw around with the SBR when it gets scrambed by running the microwave. 2) I will run cat-5 to my SBR in the living room. It is relatively easy for me to do and I want to run a wire there for another reason anyway. I will report back once I have these changes in place if I notice a difference in behavior. I certainly expect that I will. Well, it's been a couple of weeks and I think I can safely draw a conclusion. Since my network upgrade to my kitchen (homeplug) and living room (CAT-5), I have had no issues with dropouts or rebuffering in either location. It is quite refreshing! It may be coincidence, but both locations are SBRs. My SB3s and Booms (which are put at far ranges from my WAP) continue to have no trouble. I wonder if the antenna orientation or the sensitivity of the radio in the SBR are not optimal? So, in my situation, network configuration was a factor in the rebuffering issue I was seeing. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior Looking forward to new Porcupine Tree, Megadeth, Alice in Chains, and The Beatles Box set. September will be an expensive month :-) maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;450785 Wrote: If you have any kind of PC or Mac that can play the same streams through the same network equipment as you are using for the Duet, then please check that these are not also stuttering/rebuffering as well. If you report reliable playback of these same streams in the same network environment when bypassing the SqueezeCenter and its associated Logitech hardware, it would -then- make sense to focus on SqueezeCenter logs and the like.Sorry not ignoring you just other things got in the way of my replying. Good tip, didn't think of using Vista WMP11 to play that stream. I'll keep that in mind for the future. The original problem went away later in the day only to re-manifest itself as a bad file descriptor error message towards the end of the day. The following day, and every day since has been fine though. Perhaps a glitch suffered at the source rather than my own setup perhaps? Anyway, should it happen again I'll try WMP first before posting. Thanks Hyde. -- HydeTheDarkerSide SC 7.3.3 running on Tranquil WHS SS 3.7 running on Vista Ultimate SP2 3 x Classics, 1 x Duet 1 pair Audio Engine 2's UK based HydeTheDarkerSide's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14952 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
really weird. I run my SC from the family computer and my son runs some heavy duty games while I'm playing music, both flac and mp3,and never have drop outs. I'm running the SB3 wireless and always think that maybe it will start dropping because off the games but it's always held strong. It must be that a lot of different things must happen to start the problem. -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Hi I'm having buffering problems with the UK wmlive-acl.bbc.co.uk BBC radio streams, all my FLAC CD rips play just fine. My Duet Controller diagnostics reports everything is OK. This rebuffering is happening on all my players. My router is not showing any speed issues with my net connection and my Xirrus Wi-FI Vista gadget is not reporting any clashing networks on the same channels as I'm using. Log pasted below in case anyone can decipher it for me please? See attached log file. Thanks in advance :-) +---+ |Filename: ServerLog.txt| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7995| +---+ -- HydeTheDarkerSide SC 7.3.3 running on Tranquil WHS SS 3.7 running on Vista Ultimate SP2 3 x Classics, 1 x Duet 1 pair Audio Engine 2's UK based HydeTheDarkerSide's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14952 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
HydeTheDarkerSide;450682 Wrote: Hi I'm having buffering problems with the UK wmlive-acl.bbc.co.uk BBC radio streams, all my FLAC CD rips play just fine. If you have any kind of PC or Mac that can play the same streams through the same network equipment as you are using for the Duet, then please check that these are not also stuttering/rebuffering as well. If you report reliable playback of these same streams in the same network environment when bypassing the SqueezeCenter and its associated Logitech hardware, it would -then- make sense to focus on SqueezeCenter logs and the like. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I wonder when a fix is coming,it's been going on since my last firmware upgrade and I'm not game to try the most recent one because of what I the problems I inherited from 7.2. Anyhow as I write I have had no drop outs for a couple of hours,touch wood! But I must say it can be very embarrasing trying to show off your system them making excuses for the drop outs...sigh! -- joz joz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;449381 Wrote: Since an Access Point is a bridge, it will bridge all cabled traffic to the wireless (and vice versa) putting a lot of load on the wireless network if the cabled network is busy. Which is why most consumer APs are fronted by a switch, to keep wired traffic off the wireless segment (and vice versa). -- radish http://www.last.fm/user/polymeric radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I think I can see a possible problem related to a low power server on an XP machine. I run a Via based server running XP. Storage is directly attached. By default SqueezeCenter runs as 'above normal priority' but mov123 and flac seem to run at normal priority (I most use ALAC, but reconfigure to use mov123 which copies with my 24bit ALAC files). Normally things work OK - although I'm also seeing some re-buffering issues. However when I run a low priority task on the server I see a problem soon after the start of every track. When I look at task manager at these points I see SqueeseCenter taking almost all the the CPU starving mov123 and flac. I assume it's doing some refresh of the Web client or Controller or other housekeeping. My guess is that mov123 should be at least as high priority as SqueezeCenter -and probably higher. Could this be the same as some other people are reporting? - Greg -- GregD GregD's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=248 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;449860 Wrote: Bery, can you try this on your DUO? Well, I did and moreless the same ( btw: top process consumes 5% CPU ). Mode Random Mix. At the very beginning mysqld uses as much CPU as possible to create a list of random songs. Following SC load approx. 60%. Then streaming load approx. 8.5% CPU. CPU load rises at the end of song ( most likely aggresive caching by SB ). I used remote for FWD / RWD songs - max. load approx 85%. Despite my will to create a high load and as a consequence drop-out, I failed. Everything worked fine this time. I've noticed mysqld process pops up randomly during streaming with high CPU load. Couldn't be this the cause? -- Bery Bery's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32317 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I too have had problems with sound drop outs and rebuffering on 7.3.3. I also experienced a problem with the music stopping completely and logging indicates something about multiple errors and then giving up (hence the music is stopped). I couldn't reproduce the problem on demand but it mainly occured when I was using random mode and syncing two receivers. My problems seem to be solved by hardwiring one of my receivers that I thought had the weaker wireless signal. I remember that 7.3.x was meant to improve the 'Rebuffering' issues - I jokingly think the new release just doesn't show the message so often but the problem is still there. -- mobileadam mobileadam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Hi, I can also confirm dropouts in streaming after installing SC 7.3.3 on my ReadyNAS DUO ( 1 GB RAM ). In most cases happens with the first song and especially in Random Mix mode. Please, work on it :) -- Bery Bery's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32317 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Same here with Qnap TS209. Definitely something broken in 7.3.3. John -- johndpar johndpar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15581 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Pascal Hibon;449381 Wrote: This issue is not related to FLAC streaming only. I stream WAV and I also experienced the issue with 7.3.3. For now I went back to 7.2.1. and that works fine. I guess it is fair to say that the issue is more likely to occur when streaming larger audio formats (lossless). As far as I know, the default configuration of SC is to convert WAV files to FLAC prior to streaming. So, even though your source files are in WAV format, you are actually streaming FLAC over the network to your player. That is unless you've taken steps in the configuration to bypass that. Do you see a spike in CPU activity on the NAS at the beginning of a track? Since transcoding has to occur, perhaps the issue is that the CPU is spiking and not able to encode enough to FLAC to keep the stream going at the very beginning of the file. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior Looking forward to new Porcupine Tree, Megadeth, Alice in Chains, and The Beatles Box set. September will be an expensive month :-) maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I should have said that in my case it is FLAC files streaming as FLAC to SBR which is wireless. I know the wifi link could be better so next try is some homeplug adaptors and if that still does not work it could be time to run a cable. Regards John -- johndpar johndpar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15581 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
maggior;449806 Wrote: As far as I know, the default configuration of SC is to convert WAV files to FLAC prior to streaming. So, even though your source files are in WAV format, you are actually streaming FLAC over the network to your player. That is unless you've taken steps in the configuration to bypass that. Do you see a spike in CPU activity on the NAS at the beginning of a track? Since transcoding has to occur, perhaps the issue is that the CPU is spiking and not able to encode enough to FLAC to keep the stream going at the very beginning of the file. I now have version 7.2.1 installed which works fine. CPU load is between 6 and 9% during playback (this was the same with 7.3.3). Nearing the end of a song CPU load goes up gradually. The highest peaks I noticed was 74% - it tends to differ from song to song. I dont know at what value it peaked with 7.3.3. Memory usage with 7.2.1 is 5.5%; with 7.3.3 memory consumption was around 9%. These figures should be fine for the NV+ (even those of 7.3.3). My NAS is still very responsive even with SC peaking at higher levels during buffer loads at the beginning of each song. I actually cant tell any difference in performance during the heavier SC loads. I must say that Im very happy with the NV+ considering it uses a SPARC processor. As for the streaming format: I didnt change anything on the configuration so I guess Im streaming FLAC then. In the Advanced tab, on the File type page, WAV is set to system default. -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Another update: I ran the linux top command with the d1 option on my NV+ to update the display every second. Then I pressed FWD on the SB remote (to speed up the beginning of next track event). The highest CPU load I noticed was 97% during this test. Again, it varies for different songs. The upper CPU load stays there for 1 second at most. This is still with 7.2.1. Still no rebuffering occurring. This is certainly something to investigate further. Maybe 7.3.3 max out the CPU usage in some occasions and so causing the rebuffering. Bery, can you try this on your DUO? Youll need to install the EnableRootSSH addon http://www.readynas.com/?page_id=617. Next login to your NAS using something like PuTTY http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ . Username is root and psw is the same as your admin. At the linux prompt run top d1. See here for more info on the top command: http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl1_top.htm. Note that linux commands are case sensitive. Press CTRL-C to exit the top command. And type exit to close the SSH session when finished. Im curious to see the results with 7.3.3 -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Here is a copy of a comment I posted in bug 13092: Bug 9517 meant that, prior to 7.3 (SB fw 117, TR fw 67, SBR fw 52, SBB fw 37), FLAC playback was almost incapable of generating the necessary underrun events to provoke rebuffering. There may have been gappy playback but no rebuffering would have occurred. It is possible that there is some other f/w bug that means that underrun events are now being generated unnecessarily, in turn provoking rebuffering when it is not needed. I was responsible for the new-streaming work in SC 7.3. Although a lot of code changed, I cannot think of anything that would impede the streaming of local FLAC tracks. I have been over the code several times. It is clear that some people are seeing issues that were not there before. Despite significant investigations, we are no closer to understanding why. If you are in a position to provide useful diagnostic information (for local FLAC tracks only) then please do so in https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092 -- awy awy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7480 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
This issue is not related to FLAC streaming only. I stream WAV and I also experienced the issue with 7.3.3. For now I went back to 7.2.1. and that works fine. I guess it is fair to say that the issue is more likely to occur when streaming larger audio formats (lossless). I noticed that the streaming generates a relatively constant data flow on the network. Near the end of a song, the dataflow becomes more important. On a 10Mb network, the load went up to 30% which is significant. This was measured with only one SB3 streaming audio. On a 100Mb this will drop down of course. But nevertheless, streaming generates an important amount of data packets on the network. It is therefore very much possible that some people may run into issues if they already have a busy network. In a cabled environment this is very easy to solve by upgrading to a gigabit backbone. Gigabit networks can even use jumbo frames if required and that will benefit the network traffic even further. But wireless is a different story. Since an Access Point is a bridge, it will bridge all cabled traffic to the wireless (and vice versa) putting a lot of load on the wireless network if the cabled network is busy. It might be wise to try and find ways to decrease the traffic generated by the streaming protocol. One way of doing that is to use a larger buffer in the players. A larger buffer would give the player more stream ahead room and this would decrease the possibility of running out of buffer. But I dont know if that is possible in the current line of players (hardware wise). In any case, there is a difference between the streaming of SC 7.3.3. and SC 7.2.1. By knowing this, it should be fairly easy to compare the traffic generated between those two versions and find a solution to the issue. In order to debug an issue like this, youll need to use a network sniffer. Microsoft provides one for free here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=983b941d-06cb-4658-b7f6-3088333d062fdisplaylang=en -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I also experience drop outs in my music with SC 7.3.3. It happens very sporadic. Usually it happens when I first start the music (most of the times I#8217;m using Random Song Mix). It also happens during playback at later instances. The issue doesn#8217;t show up very often but it is annoying when it does. The music would stop for a couple of seconds and then continue to play as normal. There is no particular message being displayed when this happens. I have two SB3#8217;s in my system, both wireless. This setup hasn#8217;t changed since many years. The wireless signal is about 75% on both SB3#8217;s. All my music is wav format. At first I thought it was due to my move from a file server to a ReadyNAS NV+. I was running SC 7.2.1 on my file server. I#8217;ve been monitoring my NV+ and it is actually not showing any heavy load when both my SB#8217;s are playing. CPU consumption is between 6 and 9 %; memory usage is 7.9%. My NV+ has 1GB of memory. I guess I can rule out the NV+ as the culprit. I want to install SC version 7.2.1 and I found this link: http://downloads.slimdevices.com/SqueezeCenter_v7.2.1/ But which of those files is for a ReadyNAS with a Sparc processor? -- Pascal Hibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;447284 Wrote: I suspect only a controlled experiment, with controlled amounts of network congestion/radio interference will be able to answer that one. I agree. This will be next to impossible for the average user to do at home. My wife wouldn't be too keen on having the basement turned into a Faraday cage to block out RFI! :-) It would even be difficult for Logitech to do I suspect. That's what makes issues like this nasty because there are s many factors involved. One thing I learned by closely looking at my network/SB performance last week is that things aren't always what they seem. I thought I didn't have any interference issues outside my house, but my SBR dropping from 50% to 25% signal for no apparent reason tells me otherwise :-(. That's a nice feature of Moose in that it lets you see the signal strength in real time. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I've been home a lot recently (kidney stones are so much fun!) and had an opportunity to spend a lot of time listening to my squeezeboxes. I have an SBR in my kitchen and in my living room (which shares a wall with the kitchen). This is what I've been using mostly all week to stream my FLAC library. Here are some things I've noticed: 1) The microwave oven greatly affects my SBR in the living room. I was using Moose when my wife turned the nuke on and I noted that the signal level went from ~60% to ~20%. Needless to say there was constant rebuffering. 2) The kitchen SBR is known to be affected the nuke. We got into the habit of pausing it when using nuking food. Regardless, sometimes afterwards the SBR would continue to rebuffer randomly for up to an hour afterwards. 3) Today it got rediculous with rebuffering in my kitchen. Out of desperation, I rebooted my wireless router - problem solved! Interesting point though is that none of my SB3s or Booms were affected at this time - they continued to stream OK. ??? 4) When using my SBR in the living room, Moose will randomly show the signal drop down to 25% for up to 30 seconds. Most of the time, there is no rebuffering! Sometimes there is though, preceded by the front light showing dim white even though music is playing. Perhaps there is something outside of the house causing interference? 5) My kids use their Booms EVERY night going to sleep. Occasionally I'll use the microwave when while they are falling asleep. NEVER have the Booms rebuffered or stopped streaming. One of them even has a marginal signal of 40-45%, but never has a hiccup. Their bedrooms are upstairs, the kitchen on the floor below under their rooms, and the WAP is in the basement. Basically, the nuke is smack in the middle of the router and the upstairs Booms! Yet they are unaffected. 6) I use my SB3 EVERY night to go to sleep and it NEVER rebuffers. Conclusions 1) It is certainly not 100% conclusive, but I have a strong sense that the SBRs are more susceptible to WiFi interference than the Boom or SB3. If I have an opportunity to do a lot of listening again, I may swap out my SBR in my living room with an SB3 and see how it behaves. 2) Resetting the router is sometimes necessary, even if other SBs are not affected. *** This may help others that are having problems that seem endless. 3) There may be a difference in the streaming in 7.3.3 from 7.2.1, but the environment definitely is a factor. I had problems with 7.2.1, but they seem to be more prevelant with 7.3.3. With 7.2.1, the stream would just stop, or the track would restart from the beginning. Now it will rebuffer and pick up from where it left off. Different behavior...yes...but this is actually more robust behavor! My plan of action: 1) I ordered a pair of homeplugs for the kitchen SBR - CAT-5 to the kitchen just isn't an option. I'm tired of having to screw around with the SBR when it gets scrambed by running the microwave. I can understand it rebuffering, but often it gets into a state where, even after the oven has been turned off, it randomly stops streaming. Usually this is preceded by the light on the front going to dim white even though it is still playing. Resetting the router occasionally helps, but when this happens, where aren't the other SBs affected? 2) I will run cat-5 to my SBR in the living room. It is relatively easy for me to do and I want to run a wire there for another reason anyway. It's just as easy to run 2 runs as 1. I will report back once I have these changes in place if I notice a difference in behavior. I certainly expect that I will. As an aside, I finally talked my brother into getting a squeezebox. He was seduced by the SBC and went with a Duet. I hope I'm not going to regret it and find myself on the defensive and trying to get him to spend more money running CAT-5 or purchasing (expensive!) homeplugs. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Improving the network seems necessary in your case, and I'm sure you'll see improvements from so doing. The jury remains out as to whether things have gotten worse due to some regression in the software or firmware that makes up the Squeezebox system. I suspect only a controlled experiment, with controlled amounts of network congestion/radio interference will be able to answer that one. The closest thing to a *user report* that could shed some light on it is if someone reverts to 7.2.1 and gets perfect playback, goes to 7.3.3 and it's broken again, and then reverts to 7.2.1 and it stays fixed. And as you rightly point out, it's not the rebuffering message that is the problem, it's interruptions to playback we care about. I suggest that anyone who has experiences that suggest the latest 7.3.3 or 7.3.4 is more fragile than a previous version post to the bug report https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092. I don't think it is particularly worth posting info to the bug that improving the network improved the streaming experience, because that is what we'd all expect whether or not there is a particular bug to be found. Probably, that point has been emphasized enough by now :-) Good luck with your network improvements; it's always a good investment to make your network more robust, particularly in your case, since you were already seeing issues with 7.2.1. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;447284 Wrote: Improving the network seems necessary in your case, and I'm sure you'll see improvements from so doing. The jury remains out as to whether things have gotten worse due to some regression in the software or firmware that makes up the Squeezebox system. I suspect only a controlled experiment, with controlled amounts of network congestion/radio interference will be able to answer that one. The closest thing to a *user report* that could shed some light on it is if someone reverts to 7.2.1 and gets perfect playback, goes to 7.3.3 and it's broken again, and then reverts to 7.2.1 and it stays fixed. And as you rightly point out, it's not the rebuffering message that is the problem, it's interruptions to playback we care about. I suggest that anyone who has experiences that suggest the latest 7.3.3 or 7.3.4 is more fragile than a previous version post to the bug report https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13092. I don't think it is particularly worth posting info to the bug that improving the network improved the streaming experience, because that is what we'd all expect whether or not there is a particular bug to be found. Probably, that point has been emphasized enough by now :-) Good luck with your network improvements; it's always a good investment to make your network more robust, particularly in your case, since you were already seeing issues with 7.2.1. Other thoughts: 1. It is a known fact that upgrades don't always perform well in Squeeze system have anyone experiencing mystery problems tried a clean install removing everything SC or at least deleting the cache files ? 2. Have anyone tried with an alternative OS install on the same hardware ? Here is what i'm experienced years ago, my upgrade from 6.3 to 6.5 was not good it stopped randomly so i tried 7.0 no joy could stop at random occasions 1-2 times a week. Did the network test 1500kbps ? Installed ubuntu on another partition on the machine, network test 3000kbps ! wtf ? this indicated to me that it was no router or network card problem. My XP partition was a pre installed one delivered with my PC i have no real OS cd/dvd to do installs with, only a restore partition with pre configured stuff. For example it came pre infected with Norton and i had never versions of Norton installed afterwards, i removed that and used ezet for while, but i distrused Nortons removal tool etc. There is something slightly fishy with my old XP install, as it was an oem installed pc it does not come with the tools do something creative about it. It runs 6.3 just fine but no other versions. I have a suspicion that MySQL was introduced after 6.3 or do I remember it wrong . To rule out the OS do a multiboot install, the alternative OS don't need to be a linux if thats uncomfortable to you, i think it's enough to try a fresh install of something. Start without firewalls or AV applications introduce you AV/FW of choice later and see whats happening. -- Mnyb No it can NOT be controlled with iTunes Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
aubuti;445938 Wrote: What, you don't think they already do that? Of course they do. Comments like that, especially your header 'Works for me' is good enough, then? (which is exactly the opposite of what I said, btw) are decidedly unproductive. Sheesh. Aside from the fact that I've managed to offend you (which I am sorry about), I am actually satisified with the level of attention this issue is recieving inside Logitech SMBU. As to whether there is a formal, automated test that allows these matters to be readily investigated (e.g. find the bandwidth constriction breaking point of 7.3.3 and compare it to the breaking point if 7.2.1), I don't think so, based on the methods that have been used to investigate other streaming related bugs (see https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9393#c24 ). I admit it is possible that Andy has his methods and QA have much better ones, but until I know better I am assuming not. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer - I gave up and had to finally resort to Google to determine the source of you signature. It was driving me crazy because it sounded so familiar but I could NOT figure out where it was from: Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... As it turns out, it is from one of my favorite songs Heart of the Sunrise! -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
maggior;446250 Wrote: dsdreamer - I gave up and had to finally resort to Google to determine the source of you signature. It was driving me crazy because it sounded so familiar but I could NOT figure out where it was from: Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... As it turns out, it is from one of my favorite songs Heart of the Sunrise! I happen to love that track as well, and for me that particular line describes the experience of taking time to really listen, along with Straight light searching all the meanings of the song. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Interesting. I started a thread here http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65801 basically about the same issue. I could have sworn my network was OK - PCs were working, game consoles ran internet games etc. Turned out for me it was one port on my gigabit switch that was failing intermittently. 99.9% of the time the port worked fine, the other 0.1% it crapped out for 10-20 seconds. As usual with these things, the port started to fail at the same time I upgraded to 7.3.3, so naturally I chose to blame the software! My 2c... -- ziggyb63 ziggyb63's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11682 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;446270 Wrote: I happen to love that track as well, and for me that particular line describes the experience of taking time to really listen, along with Straight light searching all the meanings of the song. This must be from Jon's phase of putting words together just for how they sounded without reguard to what they meant. I recall reading something about that someplace. I've listened to that song a million times, yet I still can't tell you what half the lyrics are :-) The opening part with Chis' bass is just awesome. Bruford's drumming is stellar too! An incredible song in every respect. I think I'll have to queue up some Yes this afternoon. :-). (And back to our regularly scheduled SB discussion...) -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;445842 Wrote: Good points all. I would hope that Logitech QA could take some actions rather than leaving it to end users, though. Just because the Devs or Support are not active in this thread, does not mean it is completely overlooked. :) -- funkstar my collection: *1*x boom *2*x controller, *1*x receiver *2*x sb3 (sliver/black, *1*x sb2 wired (silver), *1*x sb (black) *1*x slimp3 (with rear shield) interested in any others if you have them! funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;445855 Wrote: QA also have the ability (if not the resources) to create a controlled, non-ideal network test environment to test performance under repeatable network congestion conditions. The trouble with distributed random testing in the user community is that it is not repeatable or controlled, and unless something is grossly wrong, the feedback is usually ambiguous. True. But this does offer limitless combinations of environments, hardware, settings, and conditions the devs could never even dream up. If you want to draw more attention to the issue I'd suggest researching the bugs extensively for any related bugs and then post those bug URLS in your forum posts, repeatedly. You would likely get more people to vote on it and contribute to the bug if you made it easy to do so. Many, like myself, are not experiencing this issue so I am not likely to go researching bugs for a non-issue (to me). :) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;445855 Wrote: QA also have the ability (if not the resources) to create a controlled, non-ideal network test environment to test performance under repeatable network congestion conditions. The trouble with distributed random testing in the user community is that it is not repeatable or controlled, and unless something is grossly wrong, the feedback is usually ambiguous. What, you don't think they already do that? Of course they do. Comments like that, especially your header 'Works for me' is good enough, then? (which is exactly the opposite of what I said, btw) are decidedly unproductive. Sheesh. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
I've been suffering rebuffering for a while now, after a couple of years of stable performance, and I'm fed up so I'm trying to take action. I've ordered some more ethernet over power (Netgears HDX101) which successfully stream video to PS3 (which had been unstable over wi-fi), but until they arrive I'm stuck. I can't run Netstumbler to review my wi-fi as both my p.c. and server (HP MediaSmart) are hard-wired with no wifi capability. Looking at network test on my furthest player and signal strength is good (avergae 76 minimum 62) but buffer fullness drops at start of tracks. My suspicion (with no real data) is that 4 players streaming synchronised FLAC is using too much of the avaiable wifi bandwidth and that when coupled with some other uncapturable event (neighbours microwave ??) causes the rebuffering. I rule out server speed as the server does nothing but SqueezeCenter and MusicIP. I guess 7.3.3 is either not as robust at handling this (the rebuffering error message didn't use to exist) or has increased traffic to handle the improved sync and exacrebated a problem. Other than voting for the bug and implementing a ethernet over power, is there anything else I should be trying? Ethernet over power may fix this for me, but may not, and even if it does the root cause is then left unaddressed and may cause problems for others. -- DigitalMitch DigitalMitch's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15999 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
DigitalMitch;445679 Wrote: Other than voting for the bug and implementing a ethernet over power, is there anything else I should be trying? Surely you have a friend that has either a laptop, USB/PCI wireless adapter, Smartphone with wifi, or some other device that you could use (invite them over for beer or something) to do some wireless investigation with? -- funkstar my collection: *1*x boom *2*x controller, *1*x receiver *2*x sb3 (sliver/black, *1*x sb2 wired (silver), *1*x sb (black) *1*x slimp3 (with rear shield) interested in any others if you have them! funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Hello I have a Transporter, a Classic and two Booms running different flac files over WiFi at the same time without any problem... Christian -- Schindler Schindler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8461 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
Schindler;445739 Wrote: Hello I have a Transporter, a Classic and two Booms running different flac files over WiFi at the same time without any problem... Christian No one denies that this system -can- work very well, and probably in most installations it still does. But you don't even tell us what version of SC you using without issues or whether you are using wireless or wired, so I don't know that I feel much the wiser after your post! If we really want to gather meaningful data, we should start a poll and try to have it made sticky. E.g. STREAMING IN 7.3.X: A) Has been 100% reliable with all types of local music files in my system B) Required network upgrades since 7.3.x to become reliable C) Occasionally fails in 7.3.x with local FLAC files =500kbos D) Occasionally fails even with lossy compressed files =320Mbps E) Doesn't work well enough for me, so I reverted to an older SC e.g. 7.2.x or earlier. Comments on whether such a poll (in a new thread) would be useful? -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;445778 Wrote: STREAMING IN 7.3.X: A) Has been 100% reliable with all types of local music files in my system B) Required network upgrades since 7.3.x to become reliable C) Occasionally fails in 7.3.x with local FLAC files =500kbos D) Occasionally fails even with lossy compressed files =320Mbps E) Doesn't work well enough for me, so I reverted to an older SC e.g. 7.2.x or earlier. Comments on whether such a poll (in a new thread) would be useful? I don't think it would be useful. First there's the obvious selection bias: people not having problems are unlikely to read the poll and much less likely to be in the forums in the first place. Second, what do you do with the results? From this thread I would predict that the poll will show a small percentage of people having the problem, selection bias notwithstanding. Does that mean it can/should be ignored? Not at all. What's needed is not a poll, because the responses from the unaffected are useless in diagnosing a problem they don't have. Instead focus on systematic diagnostics with those who have the rebuffering to isolate the problem. I have forgotten a lot of what's in this thread, but it seems that there are several cases where going from 7.3.x to 7.2.x resolved the problem. That narrows it down to a finite (large, but finite) set of possible causes. My data: currently running SC 7.3.3 on five SBs (the others are running 7.4, also without rebuffering problems). Two SBs are wired and the rest are wifi. Local library is about 95% FLAC and the rest MP3. Frequently sync'ing 2 or 3 SBs, especially for the past 2-3 months. No rebuffering problems at all. -- aubuti Nothing high-end, but music anywhere I want it, and it's '100% wind powered' (http://www.cleancurrents.com/). MSI Wind desktop (Ubuntu 8.10) feeding: Living room: SB3 JVC JA-S44 Vandersteen 1; Kitchen/Dining: SB2 + SBC AudioSource Amp100 2 pairs Polk RC60i; Basement: Duet Technics SA-EX140 ESS Tempest LS8; Bedroom: Boom + SBC; Study: Duet Klipsch ProMedia 2.0; Kid's bedroom: SB2 Klipsch ProMedia 2.0 http://www.last.fm/user/aubuti/ aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
aubuti;445813 Wrote: I don't think it would be useful. First there's the obvious selection bias: people not having problems are unlikely to read the poll and much less likely to be in the forums in the first place. Second, what do you do with the results? From this thread I would predict that the poll will show a small percentage of people having the problem, selection bias notwithstanding. Does that mean it can/should be ignored? Not at all. Good points all. I would hope that Logitech QA could take some actions rather than leaving it to end users, though. I would -like- to develop a testbench using various access points coupled together with switchable RF attenuators, coax and some TCP/IP traffic generators made out of Linux boxes, so that I could inject controlled amounts of co-channel interference and thereby mess with the QoS of the wanted stream traffic in a known, repeatable way. Then I could gather some meaningful information about the robustness of the current generation of SB h/w and f/w. But as a private end-user with limited financial means and limited time to play, this is not something I can realistically get done. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
dsdreamer;445842 Wrote: Good points all. I would hope that Logitech QA could take some actions rather than leaving it to end users, though. Agreed, but the usual rule applies: if they can't reproduce it, they can't fix it (unless they just get lucky with collateral improvement). There's an open bug (13092) with a whopping *two* posts. One of the posters eliminated the rebuffering by changing his router, and the other resolved the problem by pulling ethernet cable. Unless there's another bug report I've overlooked, that doesn't give QA much to go on. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Rebuffering is ruining the Squeezebox experience
aubuti;445847 Wrote: Unless there's another bug report I've overlooked, that doesn't give QA much to go on. QA also have the ability (if not the resources) to create a controlled, non-ideal network test environment to test performance under repeatable network congestion conditions. The trouble with distributed random testing in the user community is that it is not repeatable or controlled, and unless something is grossly wrong, the feedback is usually ambiguous. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=65719 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
