Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
toby10 wrote: > Asking for someone to develop an app/plugin for a discontinued product > line that was a niche product to begin with. Further narrow down this > small niche market for the very few who want MQA. Extremely small > market, licensing issues, questionable gains, lot of time involved to > write/maintain it, niche product streaming a niche format, etc... How > does one monetize that to make it worth their while? > > Even in here, the single most active SB user & enthusiasts forum out > there, and there is very little interest. " Yes ". But i do wonder how the non MQA hifi subscription will work , its the same subcription but what do we get with non MQA equipment . If it is as good as it was before MQA then it just nothing new . But if the implementation is such that without MQA you get sligthy worse quality than the good old 16/44.1 HiFi subscription :/ Then it migth bee a need to avoid the drawbacks of not using the codec rather than reap the questionable benefits (if they exists ) :/ There are two gruops . For the oficial Tidal app it's probably Mherger ? (there is only one , sounds a lot like highlander ... :D ) The ickstream app ,remd ,pippin ,erland ? A good Topic Question would be is there any consequnce of MQA implentation in Tidal that we need to adress in the current plugins ? Is something to be done to maintain these plugins as good as they are ? Avoiding regression migth peak more intrest than a new feature ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > Based on what ? Asking for someone to develop an app/plugin for a discontinued product line that was a niche product to begin with. Further narrow down this small niche market for the very few who want MQA. Extremely small market, licensing issues, questionable gains, lot of time involved to write/maintain it, niche product streaming a niche format, etc... How does one monetize that to make it worth their while? Even in here, the single most active SB user & enthusiasts forum out there, and there is very little interest. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > Based on what ? Based on it not being a technical problem, but a licensing/business strategy problem. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Apesbrain wrote: > Can't MQA be digitally passed through Squeezebox so long as volume is > locked at 100%? Of course, you'd need to have an MQA-capable DAC to > "unfold" it. Thats proven to work with files , the current Tidal app at mysqueezebox.com does not do this alledgedly ? I dont know about the ickstream app ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Can't MQA be digitally passed through Squeezebox so long as volume is locked at 100%? Of course, you'd need to have an MQA-capable DAC to "unfold" it. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
toby10 wrote: > yes Based on what ? R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > Is it just to forget ? yes toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
With the latest release of MQA, it should technically be possible to upgrade SBT to support MQA. (The analog part) But how can it be done, and who can look into this, and how do we finance such an option ? Is it just to forget ? R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Ins236 wrote: > MQA has closed source libraries for most intel & arm linux platforms > > One manufacturer of music servers in this list is selling the open > source MPD (music player daemon) as their own player without telling > their customers. The customers box does not include the GPL license or > modified source code. Same applies for the website and manuals: it's all > hidden from the audiophile buyer that they use an existing OSS player. > > They have announced to decode MQA in their products, which means they > will add the closed source decoder to MPD 0.17 which they use, as > there's no other way to decode MQA from within MPD (mpd is both server > and player in one binary). MPD can't call an external player to do the > work, all new formats and decoders have to be added to the decoderlist > files in the source tree. > > So even though it is closed software, as soon as you integrate closed > software like MQA into GPLv2 or v3, the whole modified work has to be > released under the GPL. > So as soon as someone makes this mistake, you can obtain the source as > it is a derived work. Both Auralic (0.18.x) and Aurender (0.17.x) are using MPD. I have looked briefly at Aurenders source and they are using a couple of exec calls to circumvent the GPL on *some* things. i cannot say for certain that this is the case with all of their code. (Tidal integration and other stuff) Auralic are denying that they use MPD but it's obvious that they do use MPD since they forgot to change the client string. You can search for it on the Minimserver forums. They are probably violating the GPL big time in all sorts of manners and getting away with it. Anyways karma will win, they'll get hit by a suit someday and that will be the end of the company. Soli's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59767 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
I have done a technical analysis of the first MQA decoder for linux, will post it in the next post, as my first post is not allowed to have external URL's. gplrender's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=65787 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > Not sure - is there really enough interest and motivation? I dont know , but its not an encrytion algorithm its designed to decode varius inputs from unknown sources on varius playback systems , so its a codec . My personal -guess- is that it does not obfuscate that much . But its not the same demands as to look at movies or hear radio on non suported platforms :) that really drives reverse engineering , like DVD did . If its to hard there would not be enough interest and motivation . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > As the MQA algortitm has a known input and output so it can be reverse > engineered . We will probably at some point have a reverse engineered > library. Not sure - is there really enough interest and motivation? "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
As the MQA algortitm has a known input and output so it can be reverse engineered . We will probably at some point have a reverse engineered library . In the past with MLP Meridian liaison with Dolby and now its trued-HD or something . So there is some kind of MQA consosrtium , maybe partly to be able to step in such matters to enforce rigths . Dolby get their due from the chip makers and most audio brands ,with the probable exception of some Chinese made dvd players etc , they dont care much for "patent" "license" copying was/is rampant . That leads to for example ffmpeg who clearly do AC3 audio aka Dolby Digital ? so this is not unheard off ? how does it do that . So this is a situation similar to libpsotify except no one knows if dolby is involved or if its reverse engineered. Seems like many libraries for linux audio contains truckloads of reverse engineered codecs ? Libavconv ? I tried to figure out but it becomes complicated well above my pay grade https://www.ffmpeg.org/legal.html A kind of grey area where things sometimes go under the radar . But I think it can heat up in audio products . If some one makes a multimedia streamers who really is a small linux box running mpd or squeezelite or anything and sell it as a pre-packed product . Then I think Dolby ,MQA , DTS et all want thier money and you to put their sticker on the front . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
At a guess Meridian could use the Spotify and libspotify as a "template" for their library. Libspotify seems to have been used and no litigation although IIRC libspotify availability may have been "forced" becuase there was a reverse engineering library and spotify was then small and probably couldn't afford financially or reputationally a law suit bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > But if a third party ,read anyone just grabs a closed source binary out > of the blue without the knowledge of the originator of the software > include it in some projekt where it should not be ,the original maker of > the code can not be responsible in any way ? that would be silly ? Indeed. Just because someone violates the GPL doesn't mean that somebody else's code (that happens to be included) suddenly and magically becomes open source. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Ins236 wrote: > > > So even though it is closed software, as soon as you integrate closed > software like MQA into GPLv2 or v3, the whole modified work has to be > released under the GPL. > So as soon as someone makes this mistake, you can obtain the source as > it is a derived work. Ins236 wrote: > Even if money was no object, it would still be impossible because of the > GPL. > > One of the MQA partners is using MPD 0.17 in their products (which > cannot contain closed source according to Max Kellermann, see this post > http://mpd-devel.musicpd.narkive.com/Hwoeiqro/possible-gpl-violation-by-pika-technologies-inc > ). You just can't link MPD to a closed source MQA decoder library, as > the GPLv2 which applies to the old MPD 0.17 as used by this vendor > cannot work together with closed source or pattented software without > violating the GPL. Julf wrote: > Only if you win a long, nasty and expensive law case... I'll doubt it altogether . If Meridian themselves did that, included some closed source MQA code in a project of this kind , it kind of holds ? I'm no practitioner of law or anything . But entirely possible . Or anyone specifically writes code and then include into GPL project without sources , they are probably acountable in some way , violating license or whatnot ? But if a third party ,read anyone just grabs a closed source binary out of the blue without the knowledge of the originator of the software include it in some projekt where it should not be ,the original maker of the code can not be responsible in any way ? that would be silly ? If that where the case there would be no closed source code left ? Just throw bit of desirable code into a random GPL projekt and bob's your uncle :) What more likely is that that peice of code had to be removed from the project altogether . If you borrow my car and run over someone Im not a part of that . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Ins236 wrote: > So as soon as someone makes this mistake, you can obtain the source as > it is a derived work. Only if you win a long, nasty and expensive law case... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > There is probably a steep licensing fee, as well as NDAs, making an open > source implementation unlikely. One of the MQA partners is using MPD 0.17 in their products (which cannot contain closed source according to Max Kellermann, see this post http://mpd-devel.musicpd.narkive.com/Hwoeiqro/possible-gpl-violation-by-pika-technologies-inc ). You just can't link MPD to a closed source MQA decoder library, as the GPLv2 which applies to the old MPD 0.17 as used by this vendor cannot work together with closed source or pattented software. Ins236's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=65454 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
As I cannot put a link in my first post, here's the link with the closed source MQA libraries and which platforms they already have a build for: http://audioxpress.com/article/Master-Quality-Authenticated-MQA-Launches-Major-Partnerships-and-New-Development-Platforms-at-CES-2016.html Ins236's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=65454 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > Closed binary software, as long as you pay licence fee. MQA has closed source libraries for most intel & arm linux platforms One manufacturer of music servers in this list is selling the open source MPD (music player daemon) as their own player without telling their customers. The customers box does not include the GPL license or modified source code. Same applies for the website and manuals: it's all hidden from the audiohile buyer that they use an existing OSS player. They have announced to decode MQA in their products, which means they will add the closed source decoder to MPD 0.17 which they use, as there's no other way to decode MQA from within MPD (mpd is both server and player in one binary). MPD can't call an external player to do the work, all new formats and decoders have to be added to the decoderlist files in the source tree. So even though it is closed software, as soon as you integrate closed software like MQA into GPLv2 or v3, the whole modified work has to be released under the GPL. So as soon as someone makes this mistake, you can obtain the source as it is a derived work. Ins236's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=65454 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/your-chance-ask-bob-stuart-anything-about-mqa-27412/ R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?105070-A-Look-at-MQA cdmackay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
rkrug wrote: > R1200CL > writes: > > > > http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/mqa-promises-something-for-everyone/ > > Hm. > > So in theory, if I > > a) Rip a CD > b) know the AD converter used for the conversion to digital > c) I could theoretically (if I would have the software) make the MQA > correction? > > > > > > > > > > > R1200CL's Profile: > http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 > > View this thread: > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 > > > > I think the best result comes ( if any at all ) if the source is a hirez master of some sort . So the master -and the whole production - shall ideally be 24/96 or better . For CD quality we can just assume that the software used to resample and dither to 16/44.1 does it job as it always has . So is MQA really targeted at this application ? Of course they want us to use it for everything... It all hinges around two beliefs that actually are not proved at all . Apodising filters or similar is better . >16/44.1 is needed for a consumer distribution format . In that case MQA does actually work it preserves >20 kHz information in a compact format with a gentle roll of . And I assume some further magic can be done if the function of the ADC filter is known , but I think this can be a logical trap once the signal is bandwith limited the information is truly lost and you could arrive at the same limited signal by many means. However some optimisation can probably be done . For example an ever gentler filter function in MQA algorithms if you know what the ADC did etc . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
This sounds a little bit like magic and fairy-dust to me. A algorithm which could guess how to improve sound sounds like the Holy Grail of maths. But I don't believe in holy things, I believe in science. And this sounds not like things work... Also the author didn't make it better by propagating that it would sound so much better the non MQA audio... Come on, for Audiophiles, it seems to me, that every little 'shit' is a whole universe of distance... Bye Alverus alverus's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62764 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL writes: > http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/mqa-promises-something-for-everyone/ Hm. So in theory, if I a) Rip a CD b) know the AD converter used for the conversion to digital c) I could theoretically (if I would have the software) make the MQA correction? > > > > R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 > View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 > > ___ > discuss mailing list > discuss@lists.slimdevices.com > http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Rainer M. Krug email: Rainerkrugsde PGP: 0x0F52F982 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/mqa-promises-something-for-everyone/ R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > According to MQA website SW implementation will be a option. Closed binary software, as long as you pay licence fee. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > Right - it is really a non-issue. Either no adaptations are needed (and > MQA is handled in the DAC) or somebody would have to license the > proprietary technology and implement it in LMS (and I am pretty sure you > wouldn't be allowed to implement it as part of open-source software), so > no go. Maybe Roon can be a solution, as they like to support MQA if allowed. Roon support will not cost extra. Squeezebox Touch works with Roon today. I've not tested. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104044-Roon-a-SqueezeBox-ecosystem-alternative/page5 Also IckStream is an option. https://forum.ickstream.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=600 R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Furry wrote: > I guess a plugin would be required for the second case (and is it even > feasible that LMS would be 'allowed' or able to decode MQA?), but what > about the first, for 'pass-through'? Right - it is really a non-issue. Either no adaptations are needed (and MQA is handled in the DAC) or somebody would have to license the proprietary technology and implement it in LMS (and I am pretty sure you wouldn't be allowed to implement it as part of open-source software), so no go. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > Pass trough would actually work rigth now as the LMS system is today > without any changes. That's why how tidal for example will implement it > becomes interesting . The MQA info is coded into normal PCM so a wav or > flac file or in some kind of stream then again it becomes interesting > how they intend to do it ... Thanks for quick reply, Mnyb! (I was still editing my post, although no significant change). Living room: SB Touch, with coax to: Marantz PM7005, TDL RTL3 speakers. Dining room: SB Boom. Kitchen: SB Radio (1/3), with battery. Bedroom 1: SB Radio (2/3), no battery. Bedroom 2: SB3 (1/2), AE 2.1. speakers. Bedroom 3: Slim Devices SB3 (2/2), Edirol MA-15D powered monitors. Bathroom: SB Radio (3/3) (in white), with (and running on) battery. Server: LMS v7.9.0 on WSE 2012 R2, HP Proliant Gen8 G1610T, 2.3GHz, 8GB. Furry's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11328 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Furry wrote: > I'm not sure anyone has been, yet; the subject of this thread seems to > ask two questions, but the discussion seems (so far) to only be about > the first; 'Breakthrough?'. Setting aside the debate about whether or > not MQA is cynical proprietary-format snake-oil and/or a DRM vehicle, > for a while, what about the second question: 'LMS possible?'. > > How would LMS handle MQA, if Tidal does eventually stream MQA? Would it > pass it through to an MQA-supporting DAC? (e.g. Meridian Explorer 2 > hanging off a RPi?), or would (could) it process/convert MQA to > PCM/FLAC? I guess a plugin would be required for the second case, but > what about the first, for 'pass-through'? Pass trough would actually work rigth now as the LMS system is today without any changes. That's why how tidal for example will implement it becomes interesting . The MQA info is coded into normal PCM so a wav or flac file or in some kind of stream then again it becomes interesting how they intend to do it ... Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > Hopefully someone can be on topic on actual squeezebox implementations > of services with MQA , in the case of actually using it or safely bypass > it , either way is a solution ( you can still use whatever service it's > about ). I'm not sure anyone has been, yet; the subject of this thread seems to ask two questions, but the discussion seems (so far) to only be about the first; 'Breakthrough?'. Setting aside the debate about whether or not MQA is cynical proprietary-format snake-oil and/or a DRM vehicle, for a while, what about the second question: 'LMS possible?'. How would LMS handle MQA, if Tidal does eventually stream MQA? Would it pass it through to an MQA-supporting DAC? (e.g. Meridian Explorer 2 hanging off a RPi?), or would (could) it process/convert MQA to PCM/FLAC? I guess a plugin would be required for the second case, but what about the first, for 'pass-through'? Living room: SB Touch, with coax to: Marantz PM7005, TDL RTL3 speakers. Dining room: SB Boom. Kitchen: SB Radio (1/3), with battery. Bedroom 1: SB Radio (2/3), no battery. Bedroom 2: SB3 (1/2), AE 2.1. speakers. Bedroom 3: Slim Devices SB3 (2/2), Edirol MA-15D powered monitors. Bathroom: SB Radio (3/3) (in white), with (and running on) battery. Server: LMS v7.9.0 on WSE 2012 R2, HP Proliant Gen8 G1610T, 2.3GHz, 8GB. Furry's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11328 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > The most missleading part imo is that is no such thing as squarewaves in > instruments ? show me an instrument with infinite freq response . > > How much transient the signal is , its always a slope somewhere . > > The Squarewave is simply a test signal and it should look like that . > And the impulse response curve that very popular, is that not also a > test signal ? nothing in nature does that either , a single positive > impulse ? The other thing is that a square wave looks very, very different (not square at all) if you phase shift the harmonics. It still sounds exactly the same. Eyes are not ears... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
The most missleading part imo is that is no such thing as squarewaves in instruments ? show me an instrument with infinite freq response . How much transient the signal is , its always a slope somewhere . The Squarewave is simply a test signal and it should look like that . And the impulse response curve that very popular, is that not also a test signal ? nothing in nature does that either , a single positive impulse ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > Wow! Yes! Not only ringing, but asymmetric ringing - only on positive > half-waves! > > Now, wait... Are those cowbells? Dumb bells. kidstypike LMS on Raspberry Pi 2 model B/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5 1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry Pi/max2play/HiFiBerry kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
kidstypike wrote: > I think you guys need new glasses :rolleyes: Wow! Yes! Not only ringing, but asymmetric ringing - only on positive half-waves! Now, wait... Are those cowbells? "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
I think you guys need new glasses :rolleyes: +---+ |Filename: bell.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19748| +---+ kidstypike LMS on Raspberry Pi 2 model B/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5 1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry Pi/max2play/HiFiBerry kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > Indeed. Looking at this picture: > ' > 19747 > > you can either see a perfectly normal square wave with harmonics above > the 5th cleanly removed by a perfect sinc convolution - or you could see > a horrible ringing that clearly must be audible. loks exactly as bandwith limited squarewave should ;) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > Creating the "fear of ringing" was one of the best marketing ideas for > audio ever. Simple to show in misleading pics and offering a cure to the > non-issue is a running gag for many years now. Indeed. Looking at this picture: ' 19747 you can either see a perfectly normal square wave with harmonics above the 5th cleanly removed by a perfect sinc convolution - or you could see a horrible ringing that clearly must be audible. +---+ |Filename: 640px-Gibbs_phenomenon_10.svg.png| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19747| +---+ "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > But the latest apodsing filter craze and this MQA thing ? Huh Creating the "fear of ringing" was one of the best marketing ideas for audio ever. Simple to show in misleading pics and offering a cure to the non-issue is a running gag for many years now. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Probably flat then . meridian and mr Stuart can make you confused . Sometimes they are very close to objective no nonsense science sometimes not . For example the active speakers with crossovers and audio processors works in 24/96 ( they accept 24/192 inputs ) as this is deemed good enough forever and no DSD ! And actually promoting active speakers for >25 years while the rest of audiophiledom has listened to Nordost cables for 100k$ instead of fixing the real problem with speakers But the latest apodsing filter craze and this MQA thing ? Huh Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > Aha I missed your previous commnet that the noise added is the dither > shape . That's better ? > > So MQA adds a dither shape ? It does truncate bit depth when creating the 16bit unencrypted contend from HiBit. Maybe they use it also while applying their apodizing lowpass on existing 16/44.1 material. Using dither is a must and using a noise shape is best practise. Good noise shaped dither can raise the dynamic range before you hear the noise of dither a lot. I am pretty sure there are not many recordings in the world that really can stress the 16bit noisefloor then. Good noiseshaping relates to the working of your ear, the ATH. HF noise is less critical as it looks like spectral. You won't hear it. Just for fun: http://www67.zippyshare.com/v/o4e9iWZY/file.html It contains 2 silent files. One with flat dither and one with ugly looking foobar noiseshaped dither! Already cranked up by +45dB!! Try to hear the noise in your listening position and realize what of your recordings you can listen with +45dB without your speakers explodes. Mnyb wrote: > So the signal is properly resampled with dither to 16 bit in MQA . If > you decode MQA data wold the dither shape curve continue >20 kHz . No idea, this is still Top Secret. Mnyb wrote: > The studio in most cases did use some dither in the 24 bit realm to ? > But that is probably not preserved in the MQA process . 24bit dither is that low in level it doesn't really matter. Mnyb wrote: > Meridian , do think that there is a "proper" dither shape some of thier > older processors had several to choose from , but nowadays they use some > unspecified shape as a part of thier secret sauce in thier audio gear . > It's probably what I listen to everyday when using my digital volume > control . Your gear will most likely already work in 24bit. Even Meridian will use flat dither for that. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > Alert backwards. I was able to find a moment of pure silence in one of > the sampletracks and it may be absolutely full 16bit left. It is really > hard to find music that really needs that. In this case they seem to > have left silence dither for a moment at the end of the file. > It is nice shaped dither curve! In the pic above is the MQA noisefloor > against iZotope 16bit silence. I forgot if that iZotope sample has the > low or medium strong shape. > Now take well shaped dither plus proper downsampling and the claim > better as standard cd is not very far fetched. You seldom see noise > shaped dither to maximize the dynamicrange on CDs. > It may look bad on spectral plots for some but that is how shape works, > ATH in use. > 19741 Aha I missed your previous commnet that the noise added is the dither shape . That's better ? So MQA adds a dither shape ? So the signal is properly resampled with dither to 16 bit in MQA . If you decode MQA data wold the dither shape curve continue >20 kHz . The studio in most cases did use some dither in the 24 bit realm to ? But that is probably not preserved in the MQA process . Meridian , do think that there is a "proper" dither shape some of thier older processors had several to choose from , but nowadays they use some unspecified shape as a part of thier secret sauce in thier audio gear . It's probably what I listen to everyday when using my digital volume control . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Alert backwards. I was able to find a moment of pure silence in one of the sampletracks and it may be absolutely full 16bit left. It is really hard to find music that really needs that. In this case they seem to have left silence dither for a moment at the end of the file. It is nice ATH shaped dither curve! In the pic above is the MQA noisefloor against iZotope 16bit silence. I forgot if that iZotope sample has the low or medium strong shape. Now take well shaped dither plus proper downsampling and the claim better as standard cd is not very far fetched. You seldom see noise shaped dither to maximize the dynamicrange on CDs. It may look bad on spectral plots for some but that is how shape works, ATH in use. 19741 +---+ |Filename: mqadither.png| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19742| +---+ Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > The upside is that HDtracks provides us with a big double-blind test. Do > we hear people saying "oh yes, tracks 5 and 6 on that album don't sound > a bit less hi-res than the others"? No. It is just people who look at > spectrograms who notice any difference. Do we hear a lot of "Oh, the > hi-res version sounds so much better" until it turns out the "hi-res" is > only upsampled (or even despite it). Yep, we do. Conclusions left to the > reader... :) I would really like to discount 24/96+ as pointless, indistinguishable from 16/44.1, except for one concern: the availability of "hi res" versions - however delivered, MQA or not - from better masters than the CD version, and with no way to get a 16/44.1 version of that master. But, as we've discussed elsewhere, without curation, there's no way to know what is what. Arse! The DR loudness database/site could have been a useful (similar) effort, but as most of its content is not detailed enough (e.g. only artist/title, no other details), it's not much use in identifying worthwhile masters. I would love to see - and contribute to - a wiki/database of available albums/tracks (with source info), which noted DR, and whether the mastering was noticeably better than CD. that could also include pointers to those tracks on the various streaming services. e.g "Deezer track 924493", etc. apols got getting a bit OT... cdmackay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
DanSmedra wrote: > In case anyone missed the beta screen that slipped out at TIDAL, which > was quickly removed. But someone got a screen capture. So no one actually has the installation file ? It's from Tidal webpage ? R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
An authentic MQA button, impressive... It seems several others do speculate about how it works. I have no idea also but sill guess the magic with old material is really not more as this apodizing. I have played with 2 files and the delta has some cancelation at 12kHz i don't understand yet. My guess is that the apodizer is linear to some point and changes phase maybe from these 12kHz on!? It may also affect lower frequencies. We know how people get horny about minimum phase and similar tricks. A good move from a marketing perspective though. Many will hear the 'better' sound. Very vague speculation. Sorry when i waste everyones time but since i find no clarification that convinces me, i can't resist :) Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
In case anyone missed the beta screen that slipped out at TIDAL, which was quickly removed. But someone got a screen capture. 19727 +---+ |Filename: MQA-TIDAL.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19727| +---+ *Source*: TIDAL HiFi, Pandora One, other > MySqueezebox.com & LMS 7.9.0-ickStream plugin, using iPeng 9.0.3 app on iPhone6s/iPad *Great Room*: SB Touch(1) > AudioQuest Toslink > PSAudio DL3 DAC > Audio Envy interconnect 10' cables > 200w powered Martin Logan Purity speakers, SB Touch(2) >JVC 110w amp > Martin Logan Motion 4 & AudioEngine 5. *Garage:* SB Touch(3) > Wyred mINT > Cullen Cables > Martin Logan Motion 12 *Carry Anywhere: *TIDAL and Pandora >iPhone 6s > Bose Mini Bluetooth speaker. DanSmedra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
cdmackay wrote: > why am I not surprised? :) The upside is that HDtracks provides us with a big double-blind test. Do we hear people saying "oh yes, tracks 5 and 6 on that album don't sound a bit less hi-res than the others"? No. It is just people who look at spectrograms who notice any difference. Do we hear a lot of "Oh, the hi-res version sounds so much better" until it turns out the "hi-res" is only upsampled (or even despite it). Yep, we do. Conclusions left to the reader... :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > For one example, I took a really recent recording - David Bowie's > Blackstar, just because... Looks like at least two of the tracks were > recorded or processed in 48 K, even on the "24 / 96" off HDtracks. why am I not surprised? :) cdmackay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
pablolie wrote: > Doesn't it have plenty? I have repeatedly read that often listeners > prefer the MP3 copy of stuff compared to the lossless original, perhaps > because the psycho acoustic model throws a slight bathtub EQ in there. I was thinking I the realm of thier copying/piracy paranoia . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > ... > But the industry might like a file format that's not quite a copy of the > studio master . > Doesn't it have plenty? I have repeatedly read that often listeners prefer the MP3 copy of stuff compared to the lossless original, perhaps because the psycho acoustic model throws a slight bathtub EQ in there. ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Player) running Ubuntu 12.04 + LMS 7.7.5 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
For those that enjoy these things. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/meridians-mysterious-mqa-site-22575/index2.html#post378620 R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > are that many studios still stuck in 24/48 ? For one example, I took a really recent recording - David Bowie's Blackstar, jut because... Looks like at least two of the tracks were recorded or processed in 48 K, even on the "24 / 96" off HDtracks. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > That's not good it means that MQA decoding is needed or you actually get > less than CD quality ? Even if the file is playable It may be even worse. If you can believe one find of esldude at CA the MQA file even has a different frequency response in this non decoded musik. This whole crap smells like a tricky way shoving DRM in the ears with leaving out nothing in manipulating our perception. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
-1 " Similar to claims made by @Vert, he has trouble with his CD rips sounding good and he finds the music he streams from Tidal to sound better, even better than CD playback. He said Tidal sources their streams directly from the manufacturer who often provides source material that is of higher quality than the physical CDs that you can buy." If they do so they should be boykoted altogether. It is lots of crap written lately with only getting people into streaming for quality. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/787020/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box/240#post_12240206 +1 R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > Thanks for the link! > Nothing like decoding but some nice ideas how to critisize MQA. > Miska is one of the major dsd promotors and naturaly has strong > ambitions against MQA :) > I see he finds the undecoded playable part indeed has less bit > resolution as a simple cd. Like i mentioned before maybe more like 14bit > noiseshaped. > > Edit: what he calls "MQA data appearing as high frequency noise" is imho > the dithershape. That's not good it means that MQA decoding is needed or you actually get less than CD quality ? Even if the file is playable . I was under the impression that at least got 16 bit quality . I understand the idea that you can replace everything below bit 18-20 with MQA info as this is just random noise in any recording , there are virtually no system that in practice is more than 20 bit it gets thoroughly masked by analog noise in your DAC and the rest of the chain and your are probably lucky if the recordings is practically 16 bit . But if you are for DSD , here you get another opportunity ultrasonic garbage in the signal ;) Maybe streaming 16/88.2 flac would be better if the HF content is what you dream necessary ( which is not true in reality but for argument ). A much simpler idea ? All this because some missunderstand sample theory , you don't get better information on the <20khz content by delivering signals with higher content ( note that recording with high sample rate is good because it simplifies the ADC filters no brick wall filter needed ,nothing else ) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
https://www.facebook.com/auralic.ltd Correction to previous posting RE: MQA, written by someone not at CES.) During CES, MQA discovered that wireless high-resolution Music Streamers without built-in DACs (i.e., AURALiCs ARIES, ARIES LE & ARIES MINI) require a slightly different implementation of its technology. MQA has not yet completed finalizing the definitive version of the technology; no MQA partner has yet to receive the actual final version of this emerging technology, which will be downloadable to any product in the very near future.) Because of this, AURALiCs original plan to include TIDAL/MQA capability in the v3.0 firmware being issued today will not occur. Xuanqian Wang President & CEO R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/miska/some-analysis-and-comparison-mqa-encoded-flac-vs-normal-optimized-hires-flac-674/ Thanks for the link! Nothing like decoding but some nice ideas how to critisize MQA. Miska is one of the major dsd promotors and naturaly has strong ambitions against MQA :) I see he finds the undecoded playable part indeed has less bit resolution as a simple cd. Like i mentioned before maybe more like 14bit noiseshaped. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > Yes http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/miska/some-analysis-and-comparison-mqa-encoded-flac-vs-normal-optimized-hires-flac-674/ R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Really strange ?? End to end ok , can a streamer output for example the Tidal stream unaltered on spdiff and a certified DAC use it ? That Facebook tread raises even more questions ? Or do they actually envision that the network stream should go into the AVR or DAC directly and come out analog ? I've sort of understood that some kind of optimised filter is a part of a MQA certified DAC . This could be done in software to , that's the thing there a lot of media boxes around that outputs via hdmi to AVR ? It would not take off with such stric limitations , if they want widespread adaptation . Yes the Chinese copy everything , but MQA could enforce some endpoint cryptography , just like most streaming services do or in fact it will probably be done by the streaming service . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
As noted, that URL is broken. Here's the AES citation page: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17501 The PDF is free to download from there. Direct linking to the document URL is unlikely to work, as it looks like they are using a temp URL scheme that changes daily. --rt On 1/5/16 7:05 PM, R1200CL wrote: If someone like to read more real facts about MQA. http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > You need a new DAC. > > "It is unfortunately that MQA has decided to pull back the integration > on ARIES/ARIES LE during CES as they have decided to make it an 'end to > end' technology which means it will always requests a MQA certificated > DAC to work. > ARIES ARIES LE, will be able to playback or stream music contains MQA > format but will not listed MQA certificated device, to benefit from MQA, > you will need a MQA certificated DAC and this is the only way. > We are sorry about the decision made by MQA. DAR" > > https://www.facebook.com/auralic.ltd/posts/910944658974032 > > What a disaster. > I wonder what has happend behind the scene the last 24 hours. I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinese attempted to reverse-engineer, steal the technology, and market it under a different label. They do it with nearly everything else. *Source*: TIDAL HiFi, Pandora One, other > MySqueezebox.com & LMS 7.9.0-ickStream plugin, using iPeng 9.0.3 app on iPhone6s/iPad *Great Room*: SB Touch(1) > AudioQuest Toslink > PSAudio DL3 DAC > Audio Envy interconnect 10' cables > 200w powered Martin Logan Purity speakers, SB Touch(2) >JVC 110w amp > Martin Logan Motion 4 & AudioEngine 5. *Garage:* SB Touch(3) > Wyred mINT > Cullen Cables > Martin Logan Motion 12 *Carry Anywhere: *TIDAL and Pandora >iPhone 6s > Bose Mini Bluetooth speaker. DanSmedra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
You need a new DAC. "It is unfortunately that MQA has decided to pull back the integration on ARIES/ARIES LE during CES as they have decided to make it an 'end to end' technology which means it will always requests a MQA certificated DAC to work. ARIES ARIES LE, will be able to playback or stream music contains MQA format but will not listed MQA certificated device, to benefit from MQA, you will need a MQA certificated DAC and this is the only way. We are sorry about the decision made by MQA. DAR" https://www.facebook.com/auralic.ltd/posts/910944658974032 What a disaster. I wonder what has happend behinde the scene the last 24 hours. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
For streaming the small bitrate is a good thing , especially for the service that streams , keeping bandwidth low . If you have decent ISP your bandwith is not a problem , I can only imagine the loads Tidal and Spotify has But for downloadable files ? Then a 24/96 PCM / Flac file is much better , it's more money in a sold file it could easily cover bandwith cost . And you download once . If you stream you use bandwith every time you listen . But the industry might like a file format that's not quite a copy of the studio master . If they get common , we might actually see some intense reverse engineering as people would,like foobar2000 plugins etc , KODI anyone ? . And people would expect things like jriver, media monkey and dBpower amp to be able to convert the files . Some of these apps are paid for so they could probably license . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > He, he, maybe DVD John can do ;) > MQA is a patented technology. > > But why would you like to decode a MQA file, as a reasonable DAC can do > as well as streamers ? > I do not know how hard it is to tap a spdif or USB interface, and save > the file, but that would fullfill your request I guess. > You would in any case have a Tidal hi-fi subscription or purchase MQA > encoded music. MQA is some lossy way storing music that can be decoded to the maximum samplerate your DAC handles thats all. I want to know what data Meridian thinks can be missing against a solid 24/96 when decoded to 24/96 for example. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > Yes He, he, maybe DVD John can do ;) MQA is a patented technology. But why would you like to decode a MQA file, as a reasonable DAC can do as well as streamers ? I do not know how hard it is to tap a spdif or USB interface, and save the file, but that would fullfill your request I guess. You would in any case have a Tidal hi-fi subscription or purchase MQA encoded music. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8V2juQMiw 19707 +---+ |Filename: BobS-CES2016.JPG | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19707| +---+ *Source*: TIDAL HiFi, Pandora One, other > MySqueezebox.com & LMS 7.9.0-ickStream plugin, using iPeng 9.0.3 app on iPhone6s/iPad *Great Room*: SB Touch(1) > AudioQuest Toslink > PSAudio DL3 DAC > Audio Envy interconnect 10' cables > 200w powered Martin Logan Purity speakers, SB Touch(2) >JVC 110w amp > Martin Logan Motion 4 & AudioEngine 5. *Garage:* SB Touch(3) > Wyred mINT > Cullen Cables > Martin Logan Motion 12 *Carry Anywhere: *TIDAL and Pandora >iPhone 6s > Bose Mini Bluetooth speaker. DanSmedra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > > Are you requesting a decoded MQA file ? Yes Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Wombat wrote: > If they were interested in some honest facts they long had offered a > HiBit file and the corresponding MQA->ANDBACK file. > You have to wait until some underdog blog creates such files. > Lets see what all this shows. From the short silent parts of the first > 2L samples the undecoded (16bit?) part has some noisefloor i'd very > vague rate by eye as maybe 14bit noiseshaped, not more. Not good enough this link then ? http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html? What is missing ? R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > ?..., for locally stored content MQA doesn't offer any advantage > over 96/24 FLAC. So even if original recordings is offered DXD FLC 24/384, I could understand that those resolutions is just close to marketing BS ? My DAC has limitations, so I can't test how good or better DXD might be. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
If they were interested in some honest facts they long had offered a HiBit file and the corresponding MQA->ANDBACK file. You have to wait until some underdog blog creates such files. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Designing a licensable format is some kind of industry holy grail . Look no further than Sony , they try this all the time Phillips and Sony struck gold with the CD they made some profit whoever sold the player , but that patent has expired so royalty is not the same anymore , then Sony tried the SACD DSD thing. Etc . There is some kind of balance that needs to be struck . Design a format for its own sake just to create license fee vs an universal standard that fulfills a consumer need . The CD was such a format and the DVD too . LP and cassette where fidgety and complicated and only the enthusiast consumer ever got the best out of these format . cd just fixed that . Seems to me that everyone wants to create the new FM radio , but they fall shorts as for example Apple wants thier monopoly . And other bizarre factors creeps in . Broadcaster are not happy to just broadcast anymore they want endpoint control too ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
DanSmedra wrote: > Fact #1: MQA has several parts/components. An encoder and a decoder? :) > Fact #2: Confusion of what it is and how it works is currently the > status-quo. Indeed. But the proponents of the system are not doing a very good job to clear up the confusion. > Fact #3: A growing number of top audio companies have become believers. Not sure about "believers", but I can see why equipment vendors would love yet another format that will obsolete older gear and encourage people to upgrade. The real question is how many major record companies support the system - it will live or die based on availability of content. The only real case for MQA is "hi-res" streaming - and I am not sure there is a business case for that. While record companies no doubt would love another opportunity to sell you yet another copy of the music you already have, for locally stored content MQA doesn't offer any advantage over 96/24 FLAC. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Fact #1: MQA has several parts/components. Fact #2: Confusion of what it is and how it works is currently the status-quo. Fact #3: A growing number of top audio companies have become believers. 19693 +---+ |Filename: MQA.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19693| +---+ *Source*: TIDAL HiFi, Pandora One, other > MySqueezebox.com & LMS 7.9.0-ickStream plugin, using iPeng 9.0.3 app on iPhone6s/iPad *Great Room*: SB Touch(1) > AudioQuest Toslink > PSAudio DL3 DAC > Audio Envy interconnect 10' cables > 200w powered Martin Logan Purity speakers, SB Touch(2) >JVC 110w amp > Martin Logan Motion 4 & AudioEngine 5. *Garage:* SB Touch(3) > Wyred mINT > Cullen Cables > Martin Logan Motion 12 *Carry Anywhere: *TIDAL and Pandora >iPhone 6s > Bose Mini Bluetooth speaker. DanSmedra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > Yes about the 24/192 we have to have a positive outlook sometimes , are > that many studios still stuck in 24/48 ? 24/96 is all ok probably the > rigth compromise . > Having been in some actual studios , it differs :) maybe the ADC is not > the bottleneck but something else . It can be a mashup of disparate > equipment and everyone can not buy the new toys all the time. Often the limiting factor is the software and digital audio processing computer - 48 vs 96 makes a big difference once you start stacking lots of channels. > Btw for download files why not 16/48 ? It would suit computers much > better and be easier to downsample to from the source. Downsampling is downsampling, the ratio doesn't really matter. But ironically mp3s are increasingly starting to be 48... :) > I do have the odd 24/48 recording too it may reflect the actual studio > master ... It means they are actually being honest! :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Yes about the 24/192 we have to have a positive outlook sometimes , are that many studios still stuck in 24/48 ? 24/96 is all ok probably the rigth compromise . Having been in some actual studios , it differs :) maybe the ADC is not the bottleneck but something else . It can be a mashup of disparate equipment and everyone can not buy the new toys all the time . Btw for download files why not 16/48 ? It would suit computers much better and be easier to downsample to from the source . The extra 2kHz that *may* be a problem for a extreme human listener is there ? I do have the odd 24/48 recording too it may reflect the actual studio master ... But now we are to off topic I stop now Hopefully someone can be on topic on actual squeezebox implementations of services with MQA , in the case of actually using it or safely bypass it , either way is a solution ( you can still use whatever service it's about ). Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > The recording process do use 24/192 these days to avoid brick wall > filters etc Apart from audiophile recordings most commercial recordings are still in 24/48 or 24/96. > If you want to "test" hirez in some ABX fashion use SoX or something and > resample some of the better hirez recordings you have . Do not compare > to the cd release or cd layer that came with the disc ;) they obviously > sound "different" ( because the obvious fact that they are not the same > master ) Indeed. Using SOX it is trivially easy to produce different resolutions of an original recording, so there is no excuse not to do a proper comparison (OK, the only trouble is finding material that really is "hi-res"). > Personally looking at most distortions curves on power amps they peak in > the HF and also typical HF resonance peaks in tweeters ( transformer > resonances in tube amps anyone ? ) I only see a possible way for > intermodulation distortion this would sound different ofcourse . Yes, and because of that, "hi-res" might actually sound *worse* (due to intermodulation distortion caused by HF noise). "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Yes the recordings has to contain actual ultrasonic content otherwise MQA is pointless even for is intended purpose . And not any haphazard ultrasonic content the producer has to know what he is doing . Did not both Theta and Pioneer ( legato link ) both had some failed aproach to guess/generate the overtones . the failure is that the information is lost forever can not be recreated Sadly I thinks it's very tempting to do this again to generate content . The recording process do use 24/192 these days to avoid brick wall filters etc and further use floating point data in subsequent software that mixes and produces the stuff . The benefits are clear to all of us but actually it does not necessarily needs to be distributed in that format to the end user . Like most digital processing the practice to use very high Rez source material makes good sense just like in Photoshop ( I did buttons for my remote control app in more than 1000*1000 res even if they are shrunken down to 72px in iRule , but all plugins and effects etc worked so much better ) . But the subsequent distribution to consumers ? We have very good resamplers and dither algorithms these days . Anecdote I have even used bad algorithms and rather sloppy conversion processes for my own tests , and I could still not detect any difference that's how good today's stuff is . If you want to "test" hirez in some ABX fashion use SoX or something and resample some of the better hirez recordings you have . Do not compare to the cd release or cd layer that came with the disc ;) they obviously sound "different" ( because the obvious fact that they are not the same master ) Personally looking at most distortions curves on power amps they peak in the HF and also typical HF resonance peaks in tweeters ( transformer resonances in tube amps anyone ? ) I only see a possible way for intermodulation distortion this would sound different ofcourse . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > If I have understood the MQA prosess correctly as an end to end chain, > you actually have to go back to the masteres, so I do think the record > companies actually are doing this job you? There is no specific technical requirement that forces you to go back to the original masters, but unless you have supposed high-frequency content, MQA doesn't give you any benefits, so applying MQA encoding to a 44.1/16 recording is quite possible and doable, but entirely pointless. Then again, who would have thought the record companies would upsample existing recordings to be able to sell them as "hi-res"? :-/ "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
WOW Mnyb. I'm impressed. Very well written. I agree about what you say about HD tracks, as I found their so called hi-res not better than redbok. Exeptions for some tracks though. If I have understood the MQA prosess correctly as an end to end chain, you actually have to go back to the masteres, so I do think the record companies actually are doing this job you don't think they are. I might be totally wrong here, and if so, then I can't see any future succsess for MQA for the privious recordings. So yes, we need a confirmation from record companies that they will be doing the MQA coding. Maybe also a reason why Tidal seems to wait another 6 months before release MQA streaming. Link to another thread discussions the subjekt about MQA. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/tidal-to-launch-mqa-hi-res-audio-streaming-in-2016/5408/107 R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
There was some good technical discussion at hydrogen audio . But hey seems to move thier web space . So treads are just not aviable rigth now Btw just because it's a AES paper does not mean it's good or legit . Meridian has a good position in the society and IMO uses the science flair that publicate papers within AES gives for marketing purposes . These result are not undisputed . Does it make AES bad ? No this is a problem all research organisation and universities has to grapple with from time to time , you won't believe how much crap research even very respected universities realease to the world . It's kind of self correcting but it takes time .Over time several studies of a phenome takes place and it can even take a meta study to give some kind of final verdict. A more valid to aproach to a hifi streaming service would be to curate the content to the best known version of a work ? This has much more impact than the bit container I take the 320k MP3 version of the definitive master of something any day over the latest loudness war compressed master in glorious 24/192 the differences between suitable bit containers are subtle at best the differences between masters are really huge . Hey you could even throw in MQA streaming on the side in this scenario . Now and then the music would have a true 24/192 pedigree trough the recording and mastering chain these files could be given the MQA treatment . So on the rare occasion some subscribers could get the satisfaction of seeing " the MQA light " turn on . But it would not be used on program material where it would not work ( most music ever recorded ). It can prove a bit problematic to score true 96k or 192 k masters for the bat content . HD tracks for example is ripping SACD disc for a lot of thier content ? And they have huge problems with hirez masters that are nothing more than doctored CD masters to begin with . A logistical nightmare . A would love a streaming service that tackled the whole quality problem , not just obsessing over bits and kbits . Btw to get "bat friendly" content you may need to listen to rather closed miked music as the frequencies die of fast in the air and I do wonder how many of the classic microphones that record engineers love work in this domain what about thier polar pattern and frequency response ? And who will monitor this during production ? Do we even want it . The ultrasound can pose a real problem for amplifiers and speakers and actually do more good than bad . So even if we have a 24/192 master it must still be carefully evaluated . I do think 2L AIX and several others understands this very well . But what about some indie self production where they happen to have 24/192 sound cards and current software ? Or some random pop production that also happens to exist in the 24/192 domain . And it returns to the problem of setting up a quality control system that would ensure a hifi streaming service for real . It would require all the record companies and independent artist to run back to thier archives and do some QC work and possibly reupload a better master . We are talking about millions of man hours fixing this ? And in most cases the record company want the crappy compressed version . So that would in some cases require the streaming service to rip an early 90's version of some cd against the record companies intent, to get the best master ? How to resolve that . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > "The requested URL /tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf was not found on > this server." > > How about you actually explaining what you think we have gotten wrong > about MQA? It is a proprietary way to compress "hi-res" files by using > lower-order bits of a 24-bit file format to encode the high frequency > content. It is kind of compatible with non-MQA systems because the > encoded high-frequency material will drown in the noise margin of a > 24-bit file. Yes that's how I got it to ( half of the people in this tread do not have English as first language ) thanks for the short version . Btw TAS an CA are not reliable sources you read thier stuff with great scepticism , TAS had a completely bollocks article serie on digital audio where they basically claimed that the laws of physics where wrong due to thier sighted listening tests ... :D Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
pablolie wrote: > This probably has been discussed before, but I just wonder why I should > be interested in MQA encoding for the music library I already have in my > home environment. It will have no effect on your present library, as non of those files are MQA encoded. So you should not be interested :D pablolie wrote: > I see no bottlenecks to get even my 24/192 content (which I have, even > though its merits in a home environment are a tad questionable to begin > with, but that's another discussion altogether :D ) to any device in my > home. Even with lowly, old 802.11g wireless (which the SB ecosystem > supports), and even less so with 802.11ac which gets you a few Gbit/s > across the house. So thank you very much, at home FLAC or whatever I > already have works well enough. Again you are 100% correct. pablolie wrote: > Which makes me think the sweet market spot for MQA is HiRez music > streaming, since MQAs big virtue is it can pack a 24/192 stream > (~9Mbit/s) into the equivalent of a 16/44 stream (good ole 1.4Mbit/s). > Which is relevant if (a) your bandwidth connection is less than > ~12Mbit/s and (b) you still insist on listening to music in HiRez > wherever you are. Again you are 100% correct, but read my last comment b. Actually when I first read about MQA, I did not expect download MQA files as an option. pablolie wrote: > Well, I don't, I am perfectly fine with Spotify-like streaming when I am > not at home in front of the music shrine - but that's just me. Actually I ask myself as well if hi res streaming has any value when you are only using your phone and headset. As I think you need quite good equiment to benefit from this. However my Tidal Hi-Fi subscription sounds very well from my iPhone, and since I can download CD quality, I can even bring the files with me and play on a plane. Or in the car. Or just use Airplay / Chromcast. pablolie wrote: > So the question is - does the SB ecosystem even benefit from MQA? Yes, if: a: You are a Tidal Hi-Fi subscriber and has a Squeezebox Touch, and probably other SB products, but I'm thinking 24/96 is needed as minimum. Tidal is the only subscription available in CD quality on SB platform, and said to support MQA. If other will come, those should be included. b: Download (expensive) MQA fils, and use SBT / SB-products. Look at 2L or 7Digital store to get a price idea. Also it's said that even non MQA equipment will benefint from a MQA stream / file. (So Tidal Hi-Fi subscribers get a free ride:cool:) No, if Your DAC is MQA enabled. I do not know enough about Squeeze Lite as a possible option. Assuming MQA is as fantastic as those few who have heard say it is, I still think you need good equipment in order to benefit fully from MQA, but I may be wrong. But that apply to hi-res as well... Also any stremer or sw player will have a standard DAC profile, so in order to have the very best, you will probably look for a MQA enabled DAC. I predic there will be a lot of discussions at a later stage if you really need that last DAC specific parameter, as long as your SW player or streamer support MQA. I wonder if Chromcast Audio will support MQA :D Tidal will support CA. (Airplay does not support HRA) *(HRA = High Res Audio) R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Totally agree Pablo *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7 *Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > > Furter reliability information is: > http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/meridians-master-quality-authenticated-the-interview/ > http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/beyond-high-resolution/ > So you are seriously quoting TAS as a source of reliable information? > Broken URL is OK. Indeed. We didn't need it anyway :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
StephenPG wrote: > What are brickwalling artefacts? A square wave contains a sum of all odd harmonics up to infinity. If you remove some of the higher ones, the resulting wave is of course not perfectly square any more - the top will show a "ripple" proportional to the removed higher harmonics. This is usually referred to as the 'Gibbs phenomenon ' (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_phenomenon). If the removed harmonics are higher in frequency than the limit of human hearing (as usually is the case in digital audio systems), the effect is purely visual and not audible - another case of the dangers of using your eyes rather than your ears. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
What are brickwalling artefacts? StephenPG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48249 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > "The requested URL /tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf was not found on > this server." > > How about you actually explaining what you think we have gotten wrong > about MQA? It is a proprietary way to compress "hi-res" files by using > lower-order bits of a 24-bit file format to encode the high frequency > content. It is kind of compatible with non-MQA systems because the > encoded high-frequency material will drown in the noise margin of a > 24-bit file. I can't see anything wrong in your statment. It's the shortest or best :p description I've seen so far... So let us stop discuss what it is or not. I'm not the right person to discuss this with, as I have no knowlegde except from what can be found online. I have got a nice answer on the IckStream site about the possibilities of having MAQ implemented. I may add it still seems that if you like to have the very last prosent of audio quality implementert in a MQA chain, you most likely need to do something with the DAC. But for sure decoding can be done by SW. As we have seen pure streamer will have MQA firmware updates soon. We also know from Tidal's Pål Bråterud the following "At beginning, we will just transport MQA files (in FLAC wrapper) to external hardware that's supporting MQA decoding. But we will certainly also soft decode in the future also on desktop so you can enjoy MQA quality with any DAC. In mobile applications we will of course soft decode from launch. To begin with it will be a rather limited offering of higher than redbook content, but eventually we will also run all our redbook content through as you then will lose the brickwalling artefacts and also get better and more accurate coding of the PCM itself. For us it is more important that we do this right rather than have a vast catalogue of questionable character. Quality over quantity. As we go along we will fill up the tanks quicker and quicker." Furter reliability information is: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/meridians-master-quality-authenticated-the-interview/ So you really do not need my explaination ;) Bruken URL is OK. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > If someone like to read more real facts about MQA. > http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf > "The requested URL /tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf was not found on this server." How about you actually explaining what you think we have gotten wrong about MQA? It is a proprietary way to compress "hi-res" files by using lower-order bits of a 24-bit file format to encode the high frequency content. It is kind of compatible with non-MQA systems because the encoded high-frequency material will drown in the noise margin of a 24-bit file. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
If someone like to read more real facts about MQA. http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20160105/17501.pdf R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
MQA isnt even relevant yet and seems geared more for mobile audio. If/when implemented it will be on a very select few stations/services for the next few years. Likely be a premium service for those few niche services for a while, and may remain very niche for a very long while. Writing apps/plugins for such a niche market seems rather silly for a discontinued product line. Heck, Ill be happy if my SB players are even functioning 5 years from now as is, much less supporting new audio codecs. :) toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Thanks Mynb You have spent a lot of time explaining your point of view. Maybe it is time for me to sell my Touch while prices are still are good, and purchase an Auralic with Roon support. I just got email from Tidal support saying the product (Squeezebox) is discontinued, and MQA will not be supported from them. If MQA ltd also indicates the same answer, I guess MQA never will happen on Squeezebox, as without their support I guess it will be impossible to implement MQA. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
2L is one of the niche labels ( like aix ) that do true hirez recordings but that's <0.01 % of the content needed to drive a streaming network ? and audiophile labels rarely records any real musician that anyone care to listen to with some notable exceptions like Opus 3 recording the excellent Eric Bibb . What about all the other music ? Should you dimension the network for content never listened to . It's like building freeways for NASA's crawler ( that pulls the rocket to the launch pad ). i think I have 40% of all aix discs and I do listen 2-5 of them regularly . And they did a good effort to find musically viable artists to record , a good try and I respect that . But it's hard doing it the other way around as the audiophile labels do . " let's do a good record " who should be on it ? The amount of records "worthy" of this treatment ( let's pretends it does something for a moment ) is so small that everyone interested probably have half of them in thier shelves already ? Or on thier hard drives . So why stream it ? Sites likes HD tracks seems to have a lot of hirez records . Buts that's not really true ,they are sold in 24/192 containers but are mostly the same stuff as ever , most bits will be noise with all the 60's Rock records they sell as pretend hirez when 16 bit 44.1 kHz probably would preserve all the fidelity they ever had Most good labels do have a strong artistic vision behind them , documenting a genre or music styles that they love . I would like to try this on a cocktail party , let's listen to the shiefeild labs drum record followed by Jazz at the pawnshop... ;) boo It just that nobody attacks the real problem the subpar recordings we are swamped with ! All our current distributing formats is good enough for them , they are not yet a problem . We can open this discussion again when everyone has the same intrinsic recording quality as 2L AIX or Linn et all . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Qubus sublime offer some sort of 24bit https://forum.ickstream.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=392&start=10 Why I'm against it it just another proprietary format in an industry already fragmented by to many closed formats like iTunes etc. No one really needs yet another format . If someone wants to develop an universal high quality streaming format it should IMO be completely open source . There are technical reasons why DASH or similar is implemented so a format better suited to steaming and handling all the traffic in better way may be what the industry needs . But I suppose Moores law will make streaming cd quality flac quite feasible anyway . Maybe we need THE FORMAT whatever that is streaming and online purchasing and downloads seems to me being locked into a decade long never ending format war . I just whished it could end . I see MQA as a shameless money grab . If I would be King for a day I say FLAC and MP3 and that's it :) flac do support all kinds of bitrates btw 24 bit would work . And soundquality wise 16/44.1 is not a limiting factor . 1 the recordings or 2 our biology is the limit . I been suckered into the Hirez thing before in my life as I have hundreds of DVDA disc to prove that . It is not a proven fact quite the opposite that resolution above 16/44.1 is needed for human listeners . Meridian has done some very bad "research" lately trying to prove thier point both about pre ringing in filters and the need for > 20 kHz frequencies in audio I suspect it's more marketing than research . I would love discrete multichannel streaming :) no one up for that ? So there is no point what's so ever to stream 24 bit audio as thier is no point in 24 bit audio in general . Ultraviolet television would make more sense then I could get a tan viewing wildlife documentaries But I do cheer on if someone wants to develop this if large proportion of the streaming industry adopts it we need it whether we like it or not ! Just like ntsc never was the best to format or vhs never was the best video format . We simply have to use the formats our content is delivered in . But I cringe a bit when a format is sold to us with no readable rationale behind it ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
R1200CL wrote: > I think you have totally misunderstood what MQA is and offers. You > should not tell direct lies like this. You are not winning any friends by that approach. If you think Mnyb has misunderstood something about MQA, then please point out the facts. Calling stuff "lies" is not helpful, unless you have clear evidence that Mnyb is spreading false information on purpose. > MQA is Lossless. Depends on your definition of "lossless". It is lossless for the upper bits, but "steals" lower bits to represent HF information. > And all major record companies support MQA, and actually have started > the prosess of implementing MQA into their masters. So which record companies have actually committed to supporting MQA? > I can't understand why you are against implementing MAQ into Squeezebox, > or have I misunderstood your post ? And I can't understand why you are so for implementing it. What benefits do you think it will bring? > Hopfully they read this post and can email MQA about licence issue. > http://www.musicischanging.com has just updated their pages. Interestingly, the only "content partner" they list is 2L, not really one of the major record companies. If the others are supporting MQA, why are they not mentioned? The "how it works" section is thick on hype, thin on facts. > MQA is very new to people, and for some strange reason, many are > skeptical to MQA. The "strange reason" might be that it is yet another proprietary, licensed format that doesn't bring any benefits. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Mnyb wrote: > > > I'm with Julf here , why ? > > Unless actually not implementing MQA ( but using some legacy mode and > bypassing it ) makes the service sound worse than the good old 16/44.1 > they seems to want to abandon :( > > I do see the streaming service benefit here ( not us consumers ) it is a > proprietary lossy format with DRM . A FLAC service like tidal > practically broadcast the CD master which makes the paranoid record > companies unhappy . I do understand why streaming services may like the > format . > > You can ofcourse record "off air" as in the good old days , but > reintroduce some generational loss would make some happy . I think you have totally misunderstood what MQA is and offers. You should not tell direct lies like this. MQA is Lossless. No DRM. They do not want to abandon 16/44.1. And all major record companies support MQA, and actually have started the prosess of implementing MQA into their masters. Tidal will support MQA. I'm sure you are able to do a Google search for MQA (you may even limit it to the last week) http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/beyond-high-resolution/ http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-music-downloads-and-streaming/tidal-high-res-mqa-news-26734/ I can't understand why you are against implementing MAQ into Squeezebox, or have I misunderstood your post ? I like to use my Tidal hi-fi subscription with MQA on my Squeezebox Touch. (For hi res streaming). I think this is a fair request or ? R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
For newer services that would be the ickstream team go to thier forum there is already a tread . They are all here already it's erland, pippin and remd . Here it is mherger . I'm with Julf here , why ? Unless actually not implementing MQA ( but using some legacy mode and bypassing it ) makes the service sound worse than the good old 16/44.1 they seems to want to abandon :( I do see the streaming service benefit here ( not us consumers ) it is a proprietary lossy format with DRM . A FLAC service like tidal practically broadcast the CD master which makes the paranoid record companies unhappy . I do understand why streaming services may like the format . You can ofcourse record "off air" as in the good old days , but reintroduce some generational loss would make some happy . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Meridian MQA - Breakthrough? LMS possible?
Julf wrote: > I guess the answer is "it depends", as usual. > > The first step would be to find out licensing terms and costs. Julf Who in the Squeezebox world be best suited to email MQA and ask ? "MQA offers full professional support from its expert team of software and hardware engineers for manufacturers wishing to incorporate a decoder into existing or projected products with minimum delay. Please contact MQA at i...@mqa.co.uk for full details of the range of development and support options available." http://hifipig.com/mqa-integration-made-simple-ces-2016/ Maybe you could ask ? I do not have enough technical skilles to email them, nor the autorithy to represent the Squeezebox community. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102648 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss