[Elecraft] [XV144] photo wanted

2007-09-17 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
Has anyone got a pic of the front of an XV144 they could send me please (of
list is fine), as close to real size as possible.
TIA
-- 
Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing
is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.
-Lord Acton, historian (1834-1902)


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[Elecraft] Test - Sorry about the bandwidth

2007-09-17 Thread dj7mgq
Is QTH.NET really bouncing everything right now? This is the reason for this
experimental mail.

vy 73 de toby

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[Elecraft] K3 Phase Noise?

2007-09-17 Thread Bill Tippett



Thinking about these numbers reminds me of
another question I've had.  The fact that IMD was
measured at 94-95 dB at 2 kHz, and there was no
mention of noise limited, makes me wonder what
the phase noise performance is.  I also recall either
Wayne or Eric reporting BDR at 2 kHz of 143 dB.
Although I'm sure this number will be derated to be
conservative, it must mean phase noise is excellent
to even be able to measure these levels (without
being noise limited).

Wayne, Eric or John (KI6WX) have anything
to say?

73,  Bill  W4ZV  


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[Elecraft] Re: K3 Filter IMD numbers

2007-09-17 Thread dj7mgq
Good Morning/Day/Evening/Night,

While the numbers which Eric posted a few days ago are interesting, not to
mention very good... Congrats! ...I am still wondering about the 2100Hz and
1800Hz filter figures and the 2kHz numbers for 2700/2800Hz would also be rather
interesting, because they would look deeply into the IF chain.

I suppose we will have to wait for somebody to do some heavy testing.

vy 73 de toby

PS: Hope this no longer gets bounced as spam by qth.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Filter IMD numbers

2007-09-17 Thread Don Wilhelm

Toby,

I believe you have stumbled onto something that should be carefully 
defined when testing with wide roofing filters when the DSP IF is set to 
the more typical testing bandwidth of 500 Hz.   The K3 has both IF shift 
and narrow passbands available in DSP and they can be effectively used 
together.  Then we hear about the 'narrow filtering with wings' in a 
recent post and that would further complicate matters.


It seems to me that a lot of the DSP setup characteristics must be 
defined for any test to assure test repeatability.  I can envision test 
setups to make the 2 kHz spacing 'numbers' for the wide filters look 
good or bad depending on the rest of the parameters.  That may be why 
the list posted by Eric had 'n/a' for the 2 kHz number for the wide 
filters.  For instance when both signals are within the roofing filter 
bandpass, the results will depend only on the DSP and based on the 
number of bits used in the input DAC, the BDR should be in the vicinity 
of 90 dB, but very different (and better) numbers can be obtained by 
placing one signal inside and the other outside the roofing filter - so 
I conclude that the receiver setup details must be better defined for 
any test using 2 kHz spacing.


73,
Don W3FPR

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Good Morning/Day/Evening/Night,

While the numbers which Eric posted a few days ago are interesting, not to
mention very good... Congrats! ...I am still wondering about the 2100Hz and
1800Hz filter figures and the 2kHz numbers for 2700/2800Hz would also be rather
interesting, because they would look deeply into the IF chain.

I suppose we will have to wait for somebody to do some heavy testing.

vy 73 de toby

  

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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Filter IMD numbers

2007-09-17 Thread dj7mgq
Hallo Don,

 I believe you have stumbled onto something that should be carefully 
 defined when testing with wide roofing filters when the DSP IF is set to 
 the more typical testing bandwidth of 500 Hz. etc. etc. etc. 

Stumble is the right word for it - I hadn't thought about this.

I would suggest that the DSP filter should have the same bandwidth as the
roofing filter for this kind of testing. I'm a photographer by training and
currently write software for TV graphics systems, so I am sure there are many on
the list who might have more sensible suggestions.

vy 73 de toby

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[Elecraft] Re: K3 Filter IMD numbers

2007-09-17 Thread Bill Tippett



W3WPR:

I believe you have stumbled onto something that should be carefully
defined when testing with wide roofing filters when the DSP IF is set to
the more typical testing bandwidth of 500 Hz.   The K3 has both IF shift
and narrow passbands available in DSP and they can be effectively used
together.  Then we hear about the 'narrow filtering with wings' in a
recent post and that would further complicate matters.

ARRL has been doing testing to 1 kHz spacings since at
least 1998, although these measurements have appeared only in
their Expanded Test Reports until very recently (when they began
publishing 2 kHz measurements in QST reviews).  The test procedure
has always specified using any filters closest to the standard
500 Hz bandwidth.  This is to eliminate differences due to the
noise bandwidth of the filter selected.  With the advent of DSP,
I believe ARRL recognizes the problems that can arise when DSP
can modify the filter shape on demand.  I believe they just
proposed the following in response to this new capability (new
test methodology described in October QST):

**
Equivalent Rectangular Bandwidth (ERBW)

From time to time, members ask why
manufacturer's sensitivity specifications
are given in microvolts but our measurements
are reported in dBm (decibels relative
to a milliwatt). The chief reason is that
manufacturers typically do not include a
bandwidth in their specification, and measurements
in different bandwidths are not
directly comparable. All other things being
equal, there is more noise power in a 3
kHz bandwidth than a 2.4 kHz bandwidth.
To overcome that limitation, the sensitivity
testing is done with a 500 Hz bandwidth
filter, or as close to that as is available.
This permits reasonable comparisons of
different receivers.

With different filter types and with a
range of filter skirt slopes (see Figure D),
even two 500 Hz filters are not exactly
the same. Additionally, some receivers
may only have a choice of 400 Hz or
700 Hz widths. Although the filters that
a receiver has cannot be changed, the
variation in actual bandwidth can be determined
by calculating the Equivalent Rectangular
Bandwidth (ERBW). This is the
width that the filter would have if it passed
the same noise power and possessed the
ideal shape of vertical sides and a flat
passband response.
***

It seems to me that a lot of the DSP setup characteristics must be
defined for any test to assure test repeatability.  I can envision test
setups to make the 2 kHz spacing 'numbers' for the wide filters look
good or bad depending on the rest of the parameters.  That may be why
the list posted by Eric had 'n/a' for the 2 kHz number for the wide
filters.  For instance when both signals are within the roofing filter
bandpass, the results will depend only on the DSP and based on the
number of bits used in the input DAC, the BDR should be in the vicinity
of 90 dB, but very different (and better) numbers can be obtained by
placing one signal inside and the other outside the roofing filter - so
I conclude that the receiver setup details must be better defined for
any test using 2 kHz spacing.

2 kHz (and also 1 kHz) data is still very useful
even when interfering signals fall inside a roofing filter.
After all, this has been the case for most up-conversion
radios with 10-15 kHz roofing filters produced over the
past 25 years.  I interpreted Eric's n/a simply as meaning
they did not have the time or interest to test it since the
K3 has the possibility of very narrow roofing filters which
would be better suited to 2 kHz spacings.  However, I am
quite certain that ARRL, RSGB, Sherwood and others will provide
2 kHz test data, even with the wider filters, as they have
already been doing for many years.  This will be interesting
data anyway since it will give us a very good measure of the
quality of the K3's IF chain beyond the roofing filter.

73,  Bill  W4ZV

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[Elecraft] K2 - tune power and CW power is inconsistent

2007-09-17 Thread James Allen
Hello.
I found that when using the tune button, the power that is measured and
transmitted changes significantly.
For example, when adjusting the power control for 4 watts, the displayed
power can be between 3.3 and 5.6.
I measured the V ALC voltage, V PWR DAC output, and detector voltage and
found that the voltage sometimes looks like an unstable PLL loop which
oscillates.
At some point in time, the voltage stops oscillating and settles down to
some final random level.  This can take from one cycle to as many as eight
or so cycles of voltage oscillating up and down.
I verified that the CW envelope looks like that shown in the keying mod
instructions and that the rising edge time looks the same.
I also found that this occurs when keying CW after tune has been done or the
power has been changed.
After using the CW key several times, the power seems consistent for the
most part.
 
I can adjust the power setting for 4 watts, key the transmitter and measure
4.8 watts.  I then change the power setting to 5 watts and key the
transmitter.
I set the power setting back to 4 watts and key the transmitter again, but
the power now measures 3.6 watts.  Sometimes I can see more power when
changing the setting back to 4 watts than what I measured when the setting
was at 5 watts.
 
The MAX534 (U8) is an 8-bit DAC which uses a 5V reference.  Each DAC step
would therefore be around 19mV.
I found that most of the time, the amount of DAC voltage correction seen
between tune measurements was well beyond a single DAC step, so this to me
is not a DAC resolution problem.
At one point, I had adjusted the power for 1.4 watts and found some of the
following random voltage readings after many tries of performing tune.
 
PowerDAC voltage
1.20.661
1.50.681
1.80.700
2.10.719
 
This indicates the real resolution of the power steps, but I saw all of
these powers and DAC voltages at the same power setting.
 
Can someone explain the exact power control algorithm?
How many power measurements are taken when tuning or keying, and how often
are the measurements made?
When is the first power measurement made after the power envelope starts?
How is averaging performed?
How is the amount of correction or number of DAC steps of correction
determined?  Is this done in single DAC steps or larger steps?
 
Thanks
Jim
 
 
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[Elecraft] FS: K2, KSB2,KAT2, XV60

2007-09-17 Thread K8TB

Elecraft K2, 10 watt version, with built in 20 watt antenna tuner (KAT2),
the SSB Module (KSB2) and the XV60 transverter interface module.
This is serial # 5050, with all updates.
Price is $ 750, US and Canada only, and I pay for shipping UPS Ground, 
insured.

No microphone, but power cord and all manuals are included.
I accept Paypal, bank money order or US postal money order

Tom K8TB (k8tb at bosscher.org)



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[Elecraft] K3 2.7 - 5-pole vs. 2.8 - 8 pole filter

2007-09-17 Thread Paul



Does anyone have an opinion on the standard 2.7 - 5-pole vs. the 2.8 
- 8-pole as the basic filter in the K3?



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Re: [Elecraft] META E---mail filters

2007-09-17 Thread David Woolley

Jeremiah McCarthy wrote:


Due to retirement economics and the age of the computer, (which also 
translate into economics) my connection is dial-up...The digest arrives 


Solutions to your problem should cost essentially nothing.  They can 
probably be done by using the software you already have.  They can 
certainly be done on hardware that is too low spec to have any second 
hand value and with software that is free.  Unfortunately, for reasons I 
explained off list, I am not able to help you further.


[ Apologies for continuing this on list.  He has put me on his spam 
list and challenged me to say anything I have to say publicly and this 
is maybe a last chance to get the message across. I can't cover the 
whole off list reply without violating the list charter. Note: by 
default, discussion about use of a list is on topic on that list. ]

--
David Woolley
Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want.
RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam,
that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work.

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[Elecraft] K2 is still hot rig

2007-09-17 Thread Lee Buller


I worked the 3B7C station last night on 40 meters with a dipole.  I compare the 
signals between the PROII and the K2/100.  Same!  But, I think the K2 was 
easier on the ears...cleaner audio or something.  Reminds me the the ICOM 765 
which is the sweetest sounding radio I've ever used in my opinion.

Butthe signals were still the samebut sweeter on the K2 thant the PRO-2

Lee - K0WA



In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is 
Common Sense divine?
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[Elecraft] headphone jack

2007-09-17 Thread Scott McDowell

Hi
The headphone jack on my K2 has stopped switching the rig back to the 
internal

speaker when I unplug the headphones.
Seems that I have read before that someone was having trouble with the phone
jacks going bad on the K2. Is this the trouble they were having or do I have
a problem elsewhere?  The rig works great except for that and it is less 
than

a year old.
73
Scott N5SM

_
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[Elecraft] XV144 upgrade to more power

2007-09-17 Thread 7S7V
Let me put this way: 

http://personales.mundivia.es/ea3axv/elecraft_xv144_50w_mod.htm

Should people of ELECRAFT approve this mod? Any chance for some upgrade KIT 
from ELECRAFT in future?

73' Samir, SM7VZX

-
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:47:59 +0100
From: George Frazer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi to all on the list.

Samir that would be a nice idea.  The kit works very well but 25w from 
the XV144 is a bit light.  I am now looking for an amp to get me up to 
around the 100w mark.

I have just finished upgrading my K2 with the XV144, KPA100 and KAT100.  
I enjoyed building all three and learnt alot in the process.  I had 
not built the origional k2 as I had bought it through ebay. It was 
faulty when I got it and I upgraded it with the A to B kit and the 60m 
/ transverter kits. Now thats its a K2/100 with the extras I am loving 
it.

73  George
GI4SJQ
--

Hello,
I have the XV144 transverter, which I will use with tube amplifiers (GS31 or 
GS35), so I need more than 25W, which XV144 barely deliver (being really HOT 
already with 10-15W). Does ELECRAFT have any plans for some small ?really? 
linear amplifier??? We have K2 and K2/100, why not XV144 and XV144-100???

I know that are many brick amps (MIRAGE) out there ?

73' Samir, SM7VZX

--
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:26:54 +0100
From: David Ferrington, M0XDF [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Elecraft] Fan for XV144


I have purchased an XV144 to go with my K3 (will arrive when it does). 
Having read some previous posts about FM and heat and installing a 
computer fan on the main board, I wondered if anyone could give me some 
info on the spec of the fan. I have a number of old 1GB SCSI drives in 
cases that I'm going to dump (unless anyone in UK want to make me an 
offer :-) and some Sun IPX/IPC stuff too (sorry, not meaning to use 
this forum as ebay), so probably have a suitable fan if I knew the 
spec.

The alternative to that is to see in Elecraft will sell me the XV432 
fan.


Samir Popaja, 7S7V /SM7VZX
http://ww.qsl.net/7s7v
Duvhöksgatan 4B
SE-21558 Malmö
Sweden
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Re: [Elecraft] headphone jack

2007-09-17 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
Read the recent archives for this month, apparently a known problem and you
can get a part from Elecraft.



On 17/9/07 15:59, Scott McDowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

 Hi
 The headphone jack on my K2 has stopped switching the rig back to the
 internal
 speaker when I unplug the headphones.
 Seems that I have read before that someone was having trouble with the phone
 jacks going bad on the K2. Is this the trouble they were having or do I have
 a problem elsewhere?  The rig works great except for that and it is less
 than
 a year old.
 73
 Scott N5SM
 
 _
 Test your celebrity IQ.  Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
 http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
 
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If you must play, decide on three things at the start: the rules of the
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 is still hot rig

2007-09-17 Thread Gary D Krause
I can understand that and I would agree.  I had a Ten Tec Argonaut V. 
Compared to the K2, it sounded, for lack of a better description...thick and 
muddy.  I like the crystal filters much better than the DSP that was on the 
Argonaut V and the K2 is much quieter than a couple of other rigs that I have.


This past weekend, I was able to hear a Norway station that was barely out of 
the noise level on CW.  I doubt that I could have heard it on the Century 22 
or the Kenwood TS-530SP.


Gary, N7HTS


On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 07:46:02 -0700 (PDT)
 Lee Buller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I worked the 3B7C station last night on 40 meters with a dipole.  I compare 
the signals between the PROII and the K2/100.  Same!  But, I think the K2 was 
easier on the ears...cleaner audio or something.  Reminds me the the ICOM 765 
which is the sweetest sounding radio I've ever used in my opinion.


Butthe signals were still the samebut sweeter on the K2 thant the 
PRO-2


Lee - K0WA



In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you 
don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't 
find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. 
Is Common Sense divine?

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[Elecraft] K2 8T line resistance check

2007-09-17 Thread Bill Coleman N2BC
I'm at the second set of resistance checks on the RF board (page 62). All look 
OK except U10 pin 8, the 8T line.  It is over 1M ohm...  Clearly that's  500 
ohms, but looks like I have an open somewhere.   The 8R line is 2.5K.

I've eyeballed all the components on the 8T line / solder joints, etc.   Q23, 
U10,  Q20  (none of the PA circuits are installed yet).

Normal?   or trouble?

It's not worth much, but the K2 is functioning perfectly on 40M RX.

THANKS!   

73, Bill  N2BC
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[Elecraft] FS K-2 # 3434

2007-09-17 Thread Greg Storms

K-2 with KPA100, KAT100, KSB2, 160, AF2, KDSP2, and MH1.
Reply off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Greg Storms
KD7SRC

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[Elecraft] failing digest

2007-09-17 Thread Benny Aumala

No digest received to-day.
Yesterday I had the last Vol41 Issue24.

Problems?
I saw in mailman.qth.net archives, that messages have been changed to-day.

I had to see in Elecraft site that K3 delivery has been postboned.
Sorry if darkness and silence falls now.

Benny

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[Elecraft] Re: the Yagi problem

2007-09-17 Thread wayne burdick

Ed,

A couple of other thoughts on this, assuming that no relays are 
switching as you vary power from 80-120 W (see previous e-mail).


We need to get an o'scope on your TX output at the time the SWR goes up 
to see if the PA is unstable. If it isn't, then perhaps the SWR bridge 
transformers are getting saturated, or there's RF getting into the SWR 
bridge op-amp.


If it's the PA going unstable, the next step is to have you put in the 
KANT3 module rather than the KAT3.


Wayne


On Sep 17, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Ed Muns wrote:


On your 100W+ SWR problem (going wild after having been
1.0:1):  once this has occurred, doing a TUNE (not an ATU
TUNE), does reducing the power back below some threshold
restore the SWR, or does it remain high?


The higher SWR is only at 115 and 120 watts.  No problem reducing 
power and
having the SWR return to 1.0:1, so I'm assuming there is something 
still
going on in the KPA3.  All measurements are done by using TUNE to read 
the
actual power and SWR.  (I did a TUNE at 5 and 50 watts on all bands 
before

redoing the measurements.)  Attached are updated tables of data for:

1.  50 ohm load, KAT3 bypassed.
2.  Antennas, KAT3 bypassed.
3.  Antennas, KAT3 tuned.

It was at a power request of 120 watts and inflated SWR on 20 meters 
that
K6XX heard the problem with my signal.  At 100 watts, the problem went 
away
(as does the inflated SWR).  For FCS, maybe the firmware should limit 
power

to 100 watts, at least until the KPA3 can be fixed at the higher power
levels?

Ed
Power Output.xls


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[Elecraft] Re: the Yagi problem

2007-09-17 Thread wayne burdick
Yes, this was intended as an internal discussion of a field-tester's 
rig  :)  Those darn e-mail aliases


Back to my lab bench.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elecraft] OT : signal genarator Marconi 2018A

2007-09-17 Thread luc
Just a little bit of topic :
On an Hamfest on saturday, I've purchased a nice signal generator Marconi
Instuments 2018A, of course, without manual.
My question : how do I unlock the Protected Functions to change, for
instance, the various step sizes (RF level, mod level, frequency offset) ?
The factory defaults to 1 (µV, % and  kHz), not very convenient for aligning
analogic devices !
Thanks to help me, off or on list.
73
Luc/F6HJO/HB9ABB


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[Elecraft] Re: [qrp-tech] Crimpers Revisited

2007-09-17 Thread john . brewer

Excellent question! The set I purchased is marked just this way, and I'm at a 
loss to
understand how to apply them.

John K5MO




   
 Bob Fish   
   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 Sent by:   
To 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Elecraft@mailman.qth.net,   

   [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] 

cc 
 09/16/2007 09:55 PM
   

   Subject 
   [qrp-tech] Crimpers Revisited
   
 Please respond to  
   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  


   

   

   

   




Hi Guys,

Let me start by thanking every one who responded to my request for a
source for good coax crimpers. Lots of good choices at various price
points. I noticed that some crimpers were listed with dyes or jaws with
no coax designation just three digit dye sizes like .148, .259 or .291
or whatever. These are obviously the diameter of the closed jaw after it
has ratcheted to its tightest position. I started thinking, how would
you select the right size dye for a random piece of coax. I have a set
of digital calipers. would I measure the OD of the sheild or the plastic
outside cover, or the dielectric and add some magical number like twenty
thousanths of an inch. I have used crimpers thousands of times on
various jobs and usally there is a set of crimpers with RG-316, or
whatever, written in felt pen on the handle and you used them without a
second thought. Whats the correct way to figure it out or does it change
with every connector coax combo. Sorry for the slightly off topic use of
bandwidth, but I have never heard it discussed before. Maybe thats
because only a knucklehead like me would ask this question!

Thanks,

Bob   K6GGO




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Re: [Elecraft] Re: [qrp-tech] Crimpers Revisited

2007-09-17 Thread Jack Smith



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Excellent question! The set I purchased is marked just this way, and I'm at a 
loss to
understand how to apply them.

John K5MO

  
If you look at the manufacturer's catalog for the particular crimp-on 
connector, you will find the die size(s) specified. Double crimp (center 
conductor and shield) will have two die sizes called off.


Sometimes you have to track down the assembly drawing, but generally the 
manufacturer's catalog will have it, along with the stripping dimensions.


In rare cases, the stripping dimensions and die sizes will be printed on 
the connector bag, but I've only seen that once or twice.


It's important to follow the dimensions as closely as you can.

Jack K8ZOA

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Re: [Elecraft] OT : signal genarator Marconi 2018A

2007-09-17 Thread Dave G4AON

Luc
I've uploaded the relevant parts to 
http://www.astromag.co.uk/2018%20second%20functions.pdf


It's a four page scan from the Marconi 2018 manual, hopefully it will be 
the same on the 2018A. I have a 2018 and 2019A (the latter for spare parts).


The download is 8 MB...

73 Dave, G4AON
K1, K2 and K3 on order.

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[Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Lyle Johnson
I confess to not being a CW guy.  Yeah, I passed the 20 WPM test for my 
Extra many years ago, but that didn't make me a devotee.  I use 
microphones or keyboards when I operate.  (With the K3, I've even used 
my paddles, but not for CW!)


I find when I have the K3 turned on, I often tune down to the PSK or 
RTTY areas of 20 meters and watch the text scroll by on the VFO B 
display of the K3.  I used to do this sometimes with my IC746PRO with 
its RTTY decoder, but that radio doesn't decode PSK31, so it was mostly 
interesting only during RTTY contests or W1AW bulletins :-)


Since my PCs are tied up with my work, I don't usually have soundcard 
software running.  With the K3, I don't need the PC or its software!  It 
internally decodes RTTY, PSK31 and CW.


This feature has changed my perspective on listening around on the 
bands.  RTTY and PSK are now as accessible to causal listening as SSB or CW.


Oh, yes, about CW.  The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the 
CW segments.  I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the 
decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-)  My 
ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting 
better with this visual reinforcement.


73,

Lyle KK7P

K2 S/N 002

PS - I am not unbiased in all of this, of course, having written the DSP 
portion of these demodulators.  But making something and finding myself 
wanting to use it are two different things :-)







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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the
decoder to get it.
What's the K3 like?


On 17/9/07 19:29, Lyle Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

 Oh, yes, about CW.  The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the
 CW segments.  I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the
 decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-)  My
 ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting
 better with this visual reinforcement.

-- 
Once upon a time a man whose axe was missing suspected his neighbour's son.
The boy walked like a thief, looked like a thief, and spoke like a thief.
But the man found his axe while digging in the valley, and the next time he
saw his neighbour's son, the boy walked, looked and spoke like any other
child. -Lao-tzu, philosopher (6th century BCE)
 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread ab7r
Just to reinforce this, I now only use software for RTTY if I absolutely have 
to (mainly 
for contesting).  I find it so much easier to use my paddles and the K3's 
decoder.  You can 
even do this for casual contesting using the CW Messages M1-4.
An added benefit from this is by getting use to sending RTTY and PSK with your 
paddles it 
makes you better at sending CW.  Since you can see what you are sending, you 
can tell if 
you left just a little too much space between letters, so it helps with your 
timing.

When working 3B7C last week (I need him again cuz they don't have me in their 
log!!!) I had 
the CW decoder on.  He was an S1-2 and be adjusting the Threshold setting 
(there's an auto-
threshold option now too) and using a narrow BW filter in the DSP I was able to 
get about 
80-90% print on the decoder (there was some QSB to deal with).

Very Fun Stuff!

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Mon Sep 17 14:29 , Lyle Johnson  sent:

I confess to not being a CW guy.  Yeah, I passed the 20 WPM test for my 
Extra many years ago, but that didn't make me a devotee.  I use 
microphones or keyboards when I operate.  (With the K3, I've even used 
my paddles, but not for CW!)

I find when I have the K3 turned on, I often tune down to the PSK or 
RTTY areas of 20 meters and watch the text scroll by on the VFO B 
display of the K3.  I used to do this sometimes with my IC746PRO with 
its RTTY decoder, but that radio doesn't decode PSK31, so it was mostly 
interesting only during RTTY contests or W1AW bulletins :-)

Since my PCs are tied up with my work, I don't usually have soundcard 
software running.  With the K3, I don't need the PC or its software!  It 
internally decodes RTTY, PSK31 and CW.

This feature has changed my perspective on listening around on the 
bands.  RTTY and PSK are now as accessible to causal listening as SSB or CW.

Oh, yes, about CW.  The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the 
CW segments.  I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the 
decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-)  My 
ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting 
better with this visual reinforcement.

73,

Lyle KK7P

K2 S/N 002

PS - I am not unbiased in all of this, of course, having written the DSP 
portion of these demodulators.  But making something and finding myself 
wanting to use it are two different things :-)






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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Lyle Johnson

Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the
decoder to get it...


It does a decent job on reasonable code.  I use it as an aid (OK, 
crutch) rather than as the Gospel :-)


Lyle

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[Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread wayne burdick

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:


Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the
decoder to get it. What's the K3 like?


David,

Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd 
mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. 
The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the 
extent possible, and now also has an AUTO mode where it will try to 
select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also 
planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space 
lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending.


73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Vic K2VCO

wayne burdick wrote:

Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd mention 
that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it.


When you're ready for final testing, just let me know and I'll get out 
my bug collection.


--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Lee Buller



The best CW DSP decoder I've ever used was the one between my ears...sloppy 
code and all.

Have a great day!

Lee - K0WA




In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is 
Common Sense divine?
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[Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
1 word

WOW!


On 17/9/07 20:01, wayne burdick [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

 David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
 
 Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
 firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the
 decoder to get it. What's the K3 like?
 
 David,
 
 Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd
 mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it.
 The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the
 extent possible, and now also has an AUTO mode where it will try to
 select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also
 planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space
 lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending.
 
 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR
 
 ---
 
 http://www.elecraft.com
 

-- 
Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each other
at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan


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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Simon Brown (HB9DRV)

Wayne,

Any chance that you could publish the algorithm when it's perfected?

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: wayne burdick [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd 
mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. 
The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the 
extent possible, and now also has an AUTO mode where it will try to 
select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also 
planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space 
lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending.




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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Simon Brown (HB9DRV)

Bit more - FWIW I am looking at CW decoding software on the PC.

Once the K3 is shipping and you and the internal firmware team have caught a 
breath of air I wouldn't mind looking at this.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Simon Brown (HB9DRV) [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Any chance that you could publish the algorithm when it's perfected?



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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread John Sims
I am normally a 99.9 % lurker on the Elecraft list since I find most of the 
information I am interested in without further cluttering up things, but 
here is one I haven't seen discussed.  Will the CW decoder show your 
outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending?  My MFJ 495 keyer does 
this and I have found it to be a VERY helpful feature.


John, K4JDW


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[Elecraft] K3 on the bench at ARRL

2007-09-17 Thread DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Fellow K3 droolers

If Elecraft wishes to have the BEST opportunity for the ARRL to laud
the K3 (assuming that it will indeed cause jaws to drop), they better
get it in soon.

Historically, the BEST reviews (IMHO) are those that are conducted by
one of the FAMOUS contesters DURING THE BIG ONE (CQWW ssb and cw).
Passing the rig around to the likes of Mark Wilson, Tom Frenaye, or
Dave Sumner DURING THE CONTEST will, if successful, have the seal of
approval from those in the game and in know who are RECOGNIZED as
peers (or better) by contesters and DXers.  The BEST reviews
historically run the radio through its paces on BOTH MODES.

OTOH, if the radio isn't ready for prime time, don't send it in.  If I
were Elecraft, I sure wouldn't want to read When the power exceeds
100 watts, the SWR goes nuts in QST as part my NEW radio review.

However, I really thought that the ARRL tested radios which they
PURCHASED so as to ensure a random, production radio.  I don't think
Elecraft can send them one as the test unit.  Maybe there is some
wiggle room?  Maybe I'm wrong?

As a consumer, I would rather the testing agency bought a random
production radio as opposed to having one potentially cherry-picked by
the manufacturer and sent in for testing.

As for Sherwood and RadCom/Peter Hart, maybe they'll take whatever they get.

de Doug KR2Q
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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread ab7r
Hi John.

When you turn on the decoder there are presently a few options available.

TX ONLY
TWO SPEED RANGES
WPM CHECK

When the decoder is on, you will also see your outgoing CW from the paddle.

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Mon Sep 17 17:40 , John Sims  sent:

I am normally a 99.9 % lurker on the Elecraft list since I find most of the 
information I am interested in without further cluttering up things, but 
here is one I haven't seen discussed.  Will the CW decoder show your 
outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending?  My MFJ 495 keyer does 
this and I have found it to be a VERY helpful feature.

John, K4JDW


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Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Lyle Johnson
... Will the CW decoder show your 
outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending?


Yes, as long as you use the internal keyer.

73,

Lyle KK7P

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[Elecraft] Re: K3 on the bench at ARRL

2007-09-17 Thread wayne burdick

DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:


...if the radio isn't ready for prime time, don't send it in.


Doug,

All production K3s will be 100% tested on all performance parameters, 
including transmit over the full power range. (The amp discussion 
accidentally QSP'd to the reflector today was in relation to a heavily 
modified early beta-test unit, not a production unit.)


73,
Wayne
N6KR


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[Elecraft] Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread wayne burdick
A future firmware revision will also decode and display CW sent via an 
external keyer, handkey, or computer plugged into the K3. This is even 
easier than decoding on-the-air CW  ;)


73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Sep 17, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote:

... Will the CW decoder show your outgoing (real time - not message 
memories) sending?


Yes, as long as you use the internal keyer.

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Internal Digital Modes

2007-09-17 Thread Tom Hammond

Hi David:

UNfortunately, you're not going to find many devices (other than the 
human brain) which will decode poorly sent CW... and the K3 is no 
different... the CW must be pretty well sent before it can decode it, 
but it seems to do decently well on less than 'perfect' fists.


The brain is still your VERY BEST decoder!  Just takes some 
practice... well, OK... a LOT of practice... G


Cheers,

Tom   N0SS


At 13:43 09/17/2007, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the
decoder to get it.
What's the K3 like?


On 17/9/07 19:29, Lyle Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

 Oh, yes, about CW.  The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the
 CW segments.  I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the
 decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-)  My
 ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting
 better with this visual reinforcement.

--
Once upon a time a man whose axe was missing suspected his neighbour's son.
The boy walked like a thief, looked like a thief, and spoke like a thief.
But the man found his axe while digging in the valley, and the next time he
saw his neighbour's son, the boy walked, looked and spoke like any other
child. -Lao-tzu, philosopher (6th century BCE)



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[Elecraft] K3 on the bench at ARRL

2007-09-17 Thread Don Rasmussen
IMO - the contesters will focus on what their
competitors are using to beat them. ;-)

Compared to other offerings, if the rig doesn't swamp,
nap, click, or artifact it will already be far ahead
of some released/reviewed rigs. That kind
of info is often lost in a review but the guys sure
talk. 

No need to rush to review, the radio will speak for
itself. 

[Elecraft] K3 on the bench at ARRL
DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL dougzzz at gmail.com 
Mon Sep 17 17:41:12 EDT 2007 

Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 from Beta or 1st run
to ARRL, Sherwood? 
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Fellow K3 droolers

If Elecraft wishes to have the BEST opportunity for
the ARRL to laud
the K3 (assuming that it will indeed cause jaws to
drop), they better
get it in soon.


de Doug KR2Q
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[Elecraft] KXPD1 Paddle Base

2007-09-17 Thread Ed

Hello,
 I have a limited number of adapter kits for the KXPD1 paddle, so those
folks who already own a KXPD1 can use it as a regular desktop paddle. The
kits allow you to mount the KXPD1 paddle on a conventional base, and connect
it to your favorite rig or keyer. The base is 3 inches square, and black
powdercoated. The mounting bracket is gray, so the colors match Elecraft
rigs.  Weight is about a pound and a half, and the base comes with very
sticky rubber feet so the whole assembly stays put. Kit also comes with
cable and hardware; you must already have the KXPD1! I am selling the kit
for $45 plus $5. shipping. I have a couple photos available:

http://home.comcast.net/~ed.goss/Elecraft/kxpd1_1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~ed.goss/Elecraft/kxpd1_2.jpg


--Ed, N3CW--
KX1 and K2 Owner

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[Elecraft] NAQCC September Sprint

2007-09-17 Thread Larry Makoski
This Wednesday evening, the North American QRP CW Club will be holding 
its monthly sprint.


Here are the particulars:

Date and time:
Thursday September 20th, 0030-0230 UTC
(Remember that's Tuesday evening here in the USA)  That's  8:30 - 10:30 
EDT, 7:30 - 9:30 CDT, 6:30 - 8:30 MDT and 5:30 - 7:30 PDT.


Bands - Frequencies:
80M - 3555-3565 kHz (Be courteous to FISTS operating on 3558 kHz)
40M - 7039-7050 kHz (Avoid W1AW on 7047.5 kHz).
20M - 14059-14065 kHz. General:
A particular station may be worked once on each band. Operate CW only.
All licensed amateurs are invited to participate, but only those 
operating QRP (5 watts or less) are eligible for awards.


Call: CQ NA

Exchange:
RST - SPC (State Province or Country) - NAQCC Nr.
(non-Members substitute power level for NAQCC Nr., e.g. 5W, 1W, etc. Be 
sure to add the W.)


QSO Points:
QSO with a Member, 2 points.
QSO with a Non-member, 1 point.

Multipliers:
Each USA state
Each VE province
Each country except W/VE
All multipliers count only once in the contest.

Bonus:
If you use only a straight key for the entire sprint, multiply your 
score by 2.

If you use only a bug for the entire sprint, multiply your score by 1.5.
If you key with anything other than a straight key or bug, there is no 
bonus multiplier.


Categories:
SWA - simple wire antennas - for those using a simple wire antenna per 
NAQCC definition.

GAIN - gain antennas - for those using other than a simple wire antenna.

Special Award:
The purpose of having a special award is to perhaps award a certificate 
to someone who knows they can't win one of the regular 1st/2nd/TNW 
certificates, but would still like one of our beautiful NAQCC 
certificates to display in the shack. Our special award this month goes 
to the one with the highest score using 4 watts or less power. If the 
highest scorer wins a 1st or 2nd place certificate, then the SA goes to 
the next highest scorer. 


Prize:
Continuing this month we are giving away a set of CD's to one 
participant according to the following rules:


1. The participant meeting the requirements below and posting the 
highest score will be the winner of a set of CD's in the following 
months: July, August, September, October, November, January, February, 
March, April, and May.
A. Requirements: The participant must be a NAQCC member and can not have 
won a CD set previously. Previous winners are:

K4BAI (Jul 07)
K1EV (Aug 07)
B. If the highest scorer does not meet the requirements, then the CD set 
winner will be the next highest scorer who does meet the requirements.


REMEMBER: You HAVE to be a NAQCC member to be eligible to win the CDs; 
and there's still plenty of time to join before Tuesday  night's sprint. 
To join the NAQCC, please visit: http://www.arm-tek.net/~yoel//joinup.html


Entry Deadline:
All entries must be RECEIVED before 2400Z on September 26th 2007. So 
submit as soon as possible, especially regular mail entries.


NEW! NEW! NEW!
Be sure to use the new NAQCC Sprint Autologger feature!  Please visit 
http://home.alltel.net/johnshan/sprintlog.html after the Sprint to send 
in your entry!


For further information, please visit:  
http://www.arm-tek.net/~yoel//sprintrules.html


--
73 de Larry W2LJ
QRP - When you care to send the very least!

http://www.w2lj.qrpradio.com
http://w2lj.blogspot.com/

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Re: [Elecraft] Random thoughts from a K3 Field Tester

2007-09-17 Thread a.yoshida

Bob

Thank you very much for your very interesting report.
Dragon killer is most impressive.
As you know Dragon makes us very sad so some JAs
have tried to kill Dragon with top level radio.

de aki, ja1nlx

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Locher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Random thoughts from a K3 Field Tester




I received my K3 several months ago; one of the very last in the group. 
I still am not sure why I was selected for field testing - I am an 
operator, not the sort of person who loves to break software and do 
the detective work to see where a bug is.


It is interesting to see the Field Test work. Various bugs are found 
and dispatched, and operator options smoothed and streamlined. What 
really amazes me and says so much for the K3 design team is that thus 
far there have been only four hardware changes in the radio that Field 
Testers have had to make, all of them trivial.


Anyhow, that said, I can happily  report that the K3 has exceeded my 
expectations - and they were high. The receiver is incredibly quiet. The 
crystal filters are the best I have ever had - and over the years I have 
had some top line expensive radios, though none of the recent series 
such as the 7800. The K3 is an absolute joy  to tune a band with.


When I built my K2 I was so delighted with its performance that it 
became my station transceiver for the last 7 or 8 years. One of the 
things I really loved about the K2 was the superb performance while 
retaining a very simple interface. There were a number of set and 
forget menu entries in the firmware that allowed the operator to tailor 
the radio to his or her desires. Well, at first blush the K3 has more 
controls, and there really is a bit more to learn, but they are 
intuitive once one understands the philosophy of the radio - much the 
same as the K2, and in return offer a lot of additional power and 
flexibility.


I regularly used the RIT and XIT in the K2 - well, let me tell you, the 
RIT and XIT of the K3 is a clear generation ahead. It was a useful 
capability in the K2  - is a powerful tool in the K3.


The A/B VFO capabilities exceed that of the K2. An example - you are 
chasing a DX station who is operating in a lot of QRM, so you sharpen up 
the filters making copy a lot easier. But, the split pileup the DX 
operator is working  is spread out all over the place, and looking for 
the station he is working is really tough with the narrow filter. With 
the K3, if you want, it is easy to set VFO A to a 200 hertz bandwidth 
(or whatever) and have VFO B set at say 800 hertz bandwidth so that 
you can easily look for the station the DX is working.


One of the things I loved about the K2 was the AGC - in the passband you 
could easily tell who was strong and who was weak, while having perfect 
copy on both of them. But a lot of operators prefer a flatter. more 
processed signal so that all signals, weak and strong, sound alike. No 
problem - the menu lets you set the AGC gain so you can have it your way.


The hardware noise blanker has not yet been distributed to most field 
testers except for two who have both reported great results with 
electric fence or power line problems. However, we all have the DSP 
noise blanker function available. I have had some personal experience 
with this. CW DX'er on 40 meters are sadly aware of the over the horizon 
radar popularly called :The Dragon, apparently radiating from China. 
It comes on about one out of three mornings, and when it comes on it 
simply kills the band. Well, I tried the K3 DSP noise blanker, which 
allows the operator to set the level of intensity. I started cranking it 
in and lo and behold, the Dragon virtually disappeared. I could still 
tell it was there but it was no longer a factor in copying weak 
stations, and with no noticeable artifacts. I switched it out and the 
Dragon was right back there obliterating the band.


Trouble is, other people on the band lacking the K3 Noise Blanker still 
get chased off the band. After it came on all the DX disappeared, except 
for two Japanese stations ragchewing, obviously with strong enough 
signals for each other to not have a problem. They were S4 here and 
perfect copy with the K3 DSP noise blanker. I switched it off and they 
got blasted away. Back on and they were easy copy. I am anticipating 
great things this winter from the noise blanker when North American 
stations are typically suffering from the Dragon while long path 
European and Middle East stations are not hearing it at all.


The K3 definitely will require a bit of study to use the huge number of 
operator options in it - it is indeed  a feature rich radio. But it can 
be used in a simplistic manner if desired, or the operator can exercise 
all the bells and whistles. Wayne has promised to write Quick Start 
guides for each mode to get the operator up and running quickly, and has 
also promised an 

RE: [Elecraft] K3/K2 and N1MM logger

2007-09-17 Thread Ed Muns
 In anticipation of my K3 with N1MM logger, I would like to 
 build any necessary interfaces (keying, amplifier, computer 
 control, etc.).  I have heard that the interfacing is similar 
 if not the same as the K2, but I don't have a K2.  So, I 
 would like to know how you are interfacing your K2 to N1MM.  
 I don't mean I built a serial cable myself or I recommend 
 xyz's brand.  I would like to know more about your 
 configurations, like whether you are using a footswitch to 
 key the K2 which then keys an amplifier.  My first big 
 intended use of my K3 is in an SSB contest/MM environment 
 with amplifiers, (if I get it in time for CQWW SSB, I am not 
 complaining, I just want to be prepared so I can use it!)  I 
 only have 4 or 5 weeks before I am traveling for the contest, 
 so I want to get building!  Reply to me direct or to the 
 list.  Thanks.

1.  Standard serial cable, DE9S-DE9P, for rig control by PC.
2.a.  Custom Top Ten DX Doubler cable for Mic/Key/PTT/Headphones.  I took
their generic cable with a DIN plug on one end for the DXD and pigtails on
the other end.  Wired in the four plugs: Mic (3.5mm mono phone), Key (1/4
stereo phone), PTT, (RCA Phono), Headphone (3.5mm stereo phone).
2.b.  Alternatively, plug your Mic, Key, PTT (footswitch, etc.) and
Headphones directly into the K3.  For example, the Heil headsets plug
directly into the rear panel Mic and headphone (with a 1/4 to 3.5mm
adapter) jacks, or via the Heil Kenwood adapter to the front panel Mic
connector and headphone jack.
3.  Custom AuxBus  FSK/PTT cable, DE15P with two cables to DE9 plugs, one
for the KRC2 band decoder and the other for the PC serial port (FSK  PTT).
4.  Standard RCQ Phono M-M cable for amplifier keying.
5.  Standard 3.5mm stereo phone cable for sound card input, for digital mode
decoding.  Also use a Y-adapter to drive a hardware decoder in parallel.
6.  APP power cable (production units will have this supplied but you need
to add a connector or terminals on the power supply end to match your 12 VDC
supply.
7.  Ground buss to 6-32 thumb screw on K3 rear panel.
8.  Antenna connection, PL259.
9.  RX antenna connection, BNC.
10.  RX antenna out connection to second receiver for A/B testing, BNC.

73,
Ed - W0YK

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