Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/24/2019 4:39 PM, John Stengrevics wrote:

Cardinal rule of business:  New products, new products, new products.


Also a great way to go out of biz, getting rolled over by much bigger 
companies with much higher volume. Wayne and Eric know their place in 
the ham market -- indeed, they have defined it!


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Why not a KX4?

[Steve Sergeant]

My wish list for the KX3 would be to serve as K2 replacement,
price/performance wise. While I could list some UI and under-the-hood
improvements, and I agree with Tony's suggestion below, I want to make a
form-factor suggestion.

I'm imagining the KX3 repackaged so that it can be used alone as a QRP
rig, but can also be docked-into a larger chassis (K2-sized?) as its
front panel. That lager box could include integration of the guts of the
KXPA100, a bigger battery (like 6_Ah or so), a bigger speaker, a flip-up
or flip-out (on a side) display for an integral PX3 replacement. (Or
better from my perspective, a WiFi or Bluetooth interface sending
waterfall data to a phone or tablet app?)

Have it both ways: A high-end QRP rig, or a reasonably compact 100W
full-featured portable.

DE KC6ZKT --... ...--

PS: Tony, my KX2 seems more frequency stable than my KX3 on WSPR.


On 3/25/19 20:58 PM, Tony Estep wrote:
> Actually the KX3 is pretty hard to improve, but the one obvious
> consideration is that the internal batteries should be LiPo. Another
> possibility would be a different way to generate the oscillator freq to
> ensure super-stability; even after the refrigerator procedure mine drifts
> -3 or -4 Hz in a WSPR interval, which is right at the ragged edge. I can't
> think of any other changes but others may.
> 
> 73,
> Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

RIGHT ON, Mr. Wayne  !! Good answer.

K8JHR



On 3/25/2019 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret 
fishing spots.


This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One 
where we get nibbles on every cast.


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[Elecraft] Why not a KX4?

[Tony Estep]

Actually the KX3 is pretty hard to improve, but the one obvious
consideration is that the internal batteries should be LiPo. Another
possibility would be a different way to generate the oscillator freq to
ensure super-stability; even after the refrigerator procedure mine drifts
-3 or -4 Hz in a WSPR interval, which is right at the ragged edge. I can't
think of any other changes but others may.

73,
Tony KT0NY
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[Elecraft] New Product and K4 Suggestions

[Mike Lichtman via Elecraft]

In reading the K4 product suggestions posted so far, noise blanker/noise 
elimination seems to be a common thread. I have written in the past about the 
need
for improvement in the NB and NR on my KX3. I would like to see Elecraft come 
out with a really affective noise reduction unit (can be stand alone).
It could combine improved versions of the NB and NR, a phasing unit (like the 
MFJ 1026-which really works well), and audio filtering. With all the noise on
the bands lately, this would be welcomed in the marketplace.
 As far as the K4, the most common suggestions seem to be to change the 
color of the display, get a monitor screen / blend the P3 and K3. All front 
panel issues.
While Elecraft has featured the modular approach, I think expanding on this 
might be the key to pleasing a variety of tastes in a cost efficient way. Have 
two choices of front panels that
tailor the K4 to different displays and knobs vs touchscreen. The transceiver 
internals could continue to be modularly upgraded (like the K3 to K3S) and the 
front panels could be made
backwards compatible to the K3/K3s in the Elecraft tradition. This would place 
the upgrades in an affordable price band and could be done incrementally. 
Most hams can afford $1000 to $2000 but not $5000+.73 Mike KF6KXG
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[rich hurd WC3T]

Selfishly, that’s why I continued to study for the Extea Class.

Then I went and really blew it by becoming a MARS operator.   ;)

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 23:10 Byron Servies  wrote:

> I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
> spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.
>
> The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
> Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
> like me.
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> > >
> > > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable
> features that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver
> ... being able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with
> one’s license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a
> general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in
> the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra
> class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for
> example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting
> outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while
> chasing DX.
> >
> >
> > SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
> >
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
> > __
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>
>
>
> --
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2019
> - www.cqp.org
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Byron Servies]

I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.

The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
like me.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> >
> > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features 
> > that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being 
> > able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> > license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a 
> > general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in 
> > the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra 
> > class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for 
> > example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting 
> > outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while 
> > chasing DX.
>
>
> SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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-- 
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2019
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Byron Servies]

I adore my Grey Line system, and still have a few XVs here to
complete.  I understand it is technically inferior to my K-Line, but I
enjoy it more. The K1's receiver, in particular, is delightful.  A K2S
would be tremendous, even if the instructions involved a toaster oven
(which I use often for SMD single sided boards). Baring that, I would
ask for other useful hands-on ham-radio kits that are not plug-in
boards.

When I first sold all of my Y-line appliances and built a K1/4 kit,
nothing prepared me for the instructional value of tuning an inductor
with a plastic probe! So valuable to me, I cannot even describe it.
Then, of course, I had to learn morse code to use it, which is another
story.

I fully understand that Elecraft needs to make commercial products
that are profitable enough to support the business. But a guy can
dream.  I'll buy two, I promise.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 8:29 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>
> Based on that thinking, it may be that Elecraft could produce an SMD
> version of the K2 in that price class - call it the "K2S".
> Yes, it would not be a full kit like the current K2, but would solve a
> lot of problems that are encountered with the disappearing of Thru-hole
> components from the marketplace.
>
> The current K2 design even though 20 years old still has a competitive
> receiver (see the Sherwood RX listing), and many hams appreciate the
> fully analog design - which could be ported to SMD with board layout
> design but not the basic analog circuitry.  Using black paint would
> differentiate it from the current gray K2.
>

- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kenneth P Alexander]

Repeat customers and customer loyalty are the foundations of any successful
business.  Their word of mouth recommendations are pure gold to any
manufacturer, so engaging them in these discussions costs little and pays
big dividends.

>From what I have read, many of the wish list items are features already
found on rigs from other manufacturers, so some of those bases are being
covered.

That said, polling non-owners is always worthwhile...maybe at hamfests if
you can keep the syncophants from crowding the table.

What would I like to see?  A K3s or a K4 are well beyond my means.  I'd
like an improved KX3:
1.  Dedicated audio inputs/outputs for digital modes.  Built in sound card.
2.  An ethernet port for easy internet remote control, including a way to
turn the the transceiver on and off, plus remote access to every other
function (I say this not knowing whether that's possible already now)
3.  A method of setting digital mode audio levels that doesn't leave the
operator wondering why the meters aren't working.
4.  Move further away from the mindset that your customers are hikers and
backpackers.  You serve them very well already.

If my theoretical KX3s grew to the size of a K2 that would not bother me.

73,

Ken Alexander (still VE3HLS)
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 08:08 Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
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>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> 
> In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features that 
> should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being able to 
> program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a general 
> class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in the 40 
> meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra class, the 
> radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for example.  
> Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting outside their 
> allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while chasing DX.


SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:10 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> Any radio that has a screen should also support external screens. Then people 
> can configure their stations as space and interest dictate.


Agreed. And if it were on my desk, I'd want it to be HDMI, supported by the 
widest range of available monitor types. I'd like to able to specify what's on 
that screen vs. what's on the LCD, and even assign the HDMI port to an in-box 
app.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

You don't always have a manual around, or internet access.

IMHO, a radio with a large LCD should have at least a subset of the owner's 
manual built-in, with topic search (via both a scrolling TOC and keyboard) as 
well as context-sensitive help (e.g., "touch any control for information on 
what it does") and one-level un-do. And there should be a dedicated control for 
accessing this feature. You shouldn't have to look in a menu for it. I'd label 
it simply (and iconically) '?'.

Wayne
N6KR



> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Doug Person  wrote:
> 
> Reading the manual in order to learn how to use a complex radio shouldn't be 
> an obstacle.
> 
> I'm not familiar with "Hidden mouse moves" in Windows. There are 3 buttons 
> and a scroll wheel. They each  have very well-defined functions.
> 
> Doug -- KJ0F


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

Me either.

Wayne

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:02 PM, Doug Person  wrote:
> 
> If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer that 
> is internal, I don't see a problem.
> 
> Doug --KJ0F



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer 
that is internal, I don't see a problem.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 3:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, 
and modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to 
be known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of 
that.  The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the 
first would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is 
re-invent the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever 
processor they use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a 
week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run 
it on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:
FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General 
Public

License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could 
incorporate

GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the 
firmware.


Neil, KN3iLZ



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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Doug Person]

Reading the manual in order to learn how to use a complex radio 
shouldn't be an obstacle.


I'm not familiar with "Hidden mouse moves" in Windows. There are 3 
buttons and a scroll wheel. They each  have very well-defined functions.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 3:21 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote:

I agree.

The radios I've seen with touch screens are a real compromise in
usability. Either the screen is too small to be useful, or it is so big
that many hard controls are sacrificed to avoid making the front panel
too large. The worst are the PC-based interfaces, where all hard
controls are eliminated.

The IC-7300 is a case in point. When I first encountered one, I gave up
trying to figure out how to change bands, and had to ask the owner. Of
course, you just touch the MHz digit on the display! Obvious, I
suppose, in retrospect.

The problem with touch displays is similar to 'hidden' mouse movements
on PCs. Unless you've read the manual or had someone show you, it is
entirely not obvious how to do cool things with the mouse.

How many folks know that on Windows 7/10 if you drag a window to the
right or left side of the screen, that it will magically re-size to fill
just the right-half or the left-half of the screen? Makes it super
simple to place two instances of the file explorer side-by-side to
assist in doing drag 'n drop operations between windows.
How many know that if you drag the winnow top edge (as in a resize
operation) to the top of the screen it will automatically fill the
screen top to bottom? And if you subsequently drag it off the top, the
window will snap back to its original size and position?
How many know that if you grab a window title bar, and shake the mouse,
that all other windows will minimize? And if you shake the window
again, they all come back?

I'd bet that at least some of you just learned something about your PC
that you didn't know before. There is a least another dozen cool things
(like using Ctl-Windows-right or -left arrow on Windows 10 to access
multiple desktops of windows).

So, how do you implement cool touch- or mouse-movements without leaving
novice users in the dust?

That's the $64,000 question.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?
From: Wayne Burdick 
Date: Mon, March 25, 2019 12:56 pm
To: Bert 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 

The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for
functions accessed most frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they
say, while leveraging the touch screen for its versatility.

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A
touch screen inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and
in many cases reduced time/effort. Examples include signal selection,
zooming, etc. Zooming should also be done right, by resampling at
narrower resolution -- is shouldn't just be a "blow-up" of the original
pixels, as implemented on some existing radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for
"high-end" super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher
than necessary. Not only that, they're not configurable or upgradeable.
Very un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR
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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Garage door interference

[James Bennett via Elecraft]

Last time I had issues with the garage door having a mind of it’s own when i 
was on the air, I resolved it by simply placing a few mix 31 ferrites on the 
control wires. Couple at the door opener box on the ceiling and a couple more 
by the wired transmitter on the garage wall. That cured it, without having to 
open the box and so any soldering.

Jim / W6JHB


> On   Monday, Mar 25, 2019, at  Monday, 5:25 PM, hawley, charles j jr 
>  wrote:
> 
> I did. Put a .1uF ceramic at the door opener across the connection of the 
> wires going to the button by the kitchen door that operates the garage door. 
> Assuming your opener is like mine...
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS
> 
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Tom Doligalski via 
> Elecraft 
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 7:18 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] Garage door interference
> 
> 
> A while ago someone posted about putting a capacitor across the garage door 
> opener to keep EMI out.
> 
> Well, I just successfully opened mine using my KPA500 on 40M.
> 
> Can someone repost? I really don’t want to search back through the dozens of 
> K4 posts!
> 
> Tom W4KX
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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James Bennett
w6...@me.com



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kevin der Kinderen]

(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)

Let us know how you do in Business 102.



[kidding, couldn't resist]

73,
Kev K4VD

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:08 PM Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
> _
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret fishing spots. 

This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One where we 
get nibbles on every cast. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Richards  wrote:
> 
> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
> 
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all the 
> others do not.
> 
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is misplaced. 
>   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or who contemplate 
> purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase competing products than 
> buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM why.   Disregard sycophantic 
> owners who claim you make the only rig worth owning (even if that is true!) 
> Disregard those who claim other manufacturers have lost touch with their 
> customers, because that is simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified 
> hams buy other brands for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine 
> what induced them to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular 
> belief,  owning Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has 
> brand X radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his desk.   
> And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you must produce 
> products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   (I learned this is 
> Business 101.)   ;-)
> 
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
> 
> _
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Garage door interference

[K9MA]

All I did when mine had this problem is to wrap each wire entering the 
opener around a ferrite core a few times. That included the power cord, 
the wires to the switches, etc. I think there were 3 cores: one for the 
power cord, one for the switch wires, and one the light light sensor. 
Generally, all the wires which run together can go through a single 
core. No capacitors were necessary. All but the power cord a small 
enough you can get a lot of turns on a small split core.


73,

Scott K9MA


--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bill Frantz]

I have a display area 8.5" by 5.25" HDMI etc. display from 
Adafruit (about $160 or sl) which draws 403mA. I haven't tried 
it on the P3 yet, but it might work if the P3 will support its resolution.


Any radio that has a screen should also support external 
screens. Then people can configure their stations as space and 
interest dictate.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/25/19 at 10:36 AM, n...@elecraft.com (Wayne Burdick) wrote:

Yes. 7" diagonal would provide the ideal tradeoff between 
screen size and the portion of the front panel dedicated to 
hard controls. The display should have much higher resolution 
than 800x480 (IC7610), IMHO.

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...

To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all 
the others do not.


Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is 
misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or 
who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase 
competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM 
why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig 
worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other 
manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is 
simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands 
for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them 
to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning 
Brand X is not a sign of insanity!    Contest guru K3LR has brand X 
radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his 
desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you 
must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   
(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)


That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR

_


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: P3 with P3TXMON for sale

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

SOLD pending funds.  Thanks Sam!
Keith
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Re: [Elecraft] Garage door interference

[Thorpe, Jeffrey]

Details on just what you did to make this happen would be very interesting...

Jeff - KG7HDZ

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 5:26 PM, hawley, charles j jr  
> wrote:
> 
> I did. Put a .1uF ceramic at the door opener across the connection of the 
> wires going to the button by the kitchen door that operates the garage door. 
> Assuming your opener is like mine...
> 
> Get Outlook for 
> iOS
> 
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Tom Doligalski via 
> Elecraft 
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 7:18 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] Garage door interference
> 
> 
> A while ago someone posted about putting a capacitor across the garage door 
> opener to keep EMI out.
> 
> Well, I just successfully opened mine using my KPA500 on 40M.
> 
> Can someone repost? I really don’t want to search back through the dozens of 
> K4 posts!
> 
> Tom W4KX
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] Garage door interference

[hawley, charles j jr]

I did. Put a .1uF ceramic at the door opener across the connection of the wires 
going to the button by the kitchen door that operates the garage door. Assuming 
your opener is like mine...

Get Outlook for iOS


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Tom Doligalski via Elecraft 

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 7:18 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Garage door interference


A while ago someone posted about putting a capacitor across the garage door 
opener to keep EMI out.

Well, I just successfully opened mine using my KPA500 on 40M.

Can someone repost? I really don’t want to search back through the dozens of K4 
posts!

Tom W4KX

Sent from my iPad
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[Elecraft] Garage door interference

[Tom Doligalski via Elecraft]

A while ago someone posted about putting a capacitor across the garage door 
opener to keep EMI out. 

Well, I just successfully opened mine using my KPA500 on 40M. 

Can someone repost? I really don’t want to search back through the dozens of K4 
posts! 

Tom W4KX

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - Let's end the "Will there be a K4?" , "Touchscreen" and related threads 
now. Very interesting suggestions and comments, but we are wy past the 
reasonable number of allowed posts on a topic :-) .


I was tied up most of the day here and just now got back on reading my email.   
Wow!


We apologize for those overloaded by the flood of emails.

-threads closed-

73,
Eric
Moderator and all sorts of other duties at..
/elecraft.com/

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[Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Dauer, Edward]

 Me too.  I never thought of it as low capacitance fingers, but I avoid gas 
stations whose pumps I know require touch entries for zip codes, in contrast to 
those with a key pad.

As for aircraft, I have no experience in the military but long experience in GA 
proves right what Wayne said in another post -- if it's really important, it 
has to feel right.  There's a reason why the gear lever in GA craft is shaped 
like a wheel, the flap actuation switch feels like a flap, the power lever 
feels like a throttle, and to turn left you either push the stick left or turn 
the heading bug left.

And finally, as the tremors come with age, hitting any but the larger 
touch-screen buttons requires attention and is increasingly slow.

Soft keys afford the flexibility without some of the problems.


Ted, KN1CBR

  


-

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:51:40 + (UTC)
From: Al Lorona 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens
Message-ID: <896285231.9781866.1553539900...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I don't think you guys understood me. I shouldn't have veiled my concern 
with a tongue-in-cheek post.

So I will be direct. I was referring to the physiological event of touching 
a screen with a finger. It must be just me, because a large percentage of the 
time a touch screen does not respond to my finger. I have experienced this at 
ATMs, at the self checkout at Home Depot, at the airport, on my smart phone, 
etc. When you have to stand there, tapping over and over to get them to 
respond, touch screens just aren't as reliable, responsive, accurate, or fast 
as a control.

Touch screens are beautiful, but they seem to ignore me. My fingers are 
low-capacitance, I guess! For that reason, I wouldn't tolerate one any more 
than I would tolerate a sticky volume control that took three or four twists 
before the volume turned up. None of us would put up with that.

I'm a little surprised others haven't had the same experience as Thaddeus. 
Maybe they're just too shy to admit it.

The next time you tap something on your phone, and you have to tap again to 
get it to work, I want you to think of me.

Al? W6LX

   


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[Elecraft] Desired K4 features

[Stanley Fraley]

I also am interested in having I/Q output in a K4, or as a mod for a K3S/P3.

I currently use a separate receiver, SDR I/Q, fed from the receiving antenna 
connection on a K3 with a preamp to account for signal losses.  I used this 
arrangement from American Samoa as single person DX/Vacation expedition.  Used 
in conjunction with CW Simmer, it was very useful in handling CW pileups.  I 
could easily pick out calling stations that were not trying to move to where I 
had last responded to a call, which then caused a pileup around that frequency 
rather than spreading them out over several kilohertz.  I was able to pick out 
stations over the full spread each time.

I would like to have the same capability without the need for a separate SDR 
receiver and without taking away the separate receiving antenna.

73,
Stan Fraley, WS5K 
> --
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:14:43 -0700
> From: Eric Swartz  WA6HHQ - Elecraft 
> To: Elecraft list 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4
> Message-ID: <2012ac7c-cb11-4079-8e5a-311b5314d...@elecraft.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 
> 
> Eric
> elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/24/2019 7:42 PM, Peter Dougherty wrote:
>> Honestly, I'm happy with my K3s, but--and I've said this many times
>> before--I would gladly pay a premium for an I/Q out add-on board. Honestly,
>> that's the one "modern" feature this top-shelf radio is missing as far as
>> I'm concerned.
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[W2xj]

With proper forethought, they can. Proper location of ‘buttons’ on the screen 
and an overlay template could provide enough tactual feedback.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. Elecraft 
> has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
> I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. 
>> Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at 
>> them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it 
>> means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView 
>> on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has 
>> implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of 
>> stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and 
>> buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to 
>> see where they are. 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Eversole]

Touch screens on something in the K3 form factor are of little use...
Also own 7100 and that screen is troublesome to use and makes me wish I had
gone with K3X and another separate 2m/440

FT8 mode would mean many firmware updates plus not clear how you get all
the useful display information... it would just be trouble and not really
worth it in the radio. Unlike PSK or RTTY where it is more obvious which
signal is being worked... the flexible channel like behavior is just too
much for the radio form factor... I like big screens and I just cant deny


Rick "The Rhino" N6RNO
@San Benito October 6-7 2018
Where will you be?

http://www.cqp.org


On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 3:12 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> > I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular
> idea.
>
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's
> modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's
> trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control
> the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R
> switching.
>
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
>
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K4? voice recognition

[Bill Johnson]

Voice recognition to instruct menu changes? WOWzer.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Kevin der Kinderen
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:19 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4? voice recognition

Yes... but did he say OK ELECRAFT first?



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 2:01 PM Ralph Parker  wrote:

> > I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible...
>
> Except when the guy on the other end of your rag-chew says "QRT", and 
> your radio turns itself off.
>
> VE7XF
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Edward R Cole]

Page Two: of my K4 ideas.

After writing my last post on this topic, it dawned on me the K3 
architecture already uses a separate screen box which is the P3.  So 
just expand that to being a touch screen controller with P3 
embedded.  Then its a option for those that want one.  Main radio 
remains with buttons and knobs and LCD screen which works 
independently, if desired, or with Touchscreen if desired.  The new 
touchscreen/p3 would make a nice remote rig controller.  So 
interconnect with some kind of IP connection (ethernet, I 
suppose).  I'm not a computer guy so leave details to others.  Could 
such a "critter" work with my K3?


Maybe the two units could couple together mechanically to make a 
single radio unit for those that want that.


One of the deciding factors for me choosing the K3 over the existing 
Flex radio (in 2010) was having a real VFO knob and physical controls.


I currently have a 7-inch color-LCD touchscreen in use with a 
Rasp-Pi3 for controlling antenna tracking.  Fortunately does not 
require frequent touching as my fat fingers do not do well with 
it.  I guess I need a stylus which is another thing to get lost on my 
messy radio table.


Frankly, my upgraded-K3 is fully satisfactory for me.  My home 
station is a jungle of wiring but lets me configure as I want.

details: http://www.kl7uw.com/

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Bill Johnson]

How about built-in network remote capability with KPA1500?

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:13 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

Wow; there's a tantalizing post.

I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others.  Here's my list:

1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I don't buy 
a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.

2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s.  
Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current 
equipment.

3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.

4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard 
computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.

5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly K3s, 
would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design changes.

6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an 
internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.

7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that desirable.  I 
much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.

8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.


Ted, KN1CBR


   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

Inquiring minds want to know: 
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 

Eric
elecraft.com




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

It is easy to run FT8 or other digital modes on a Raspberry PI. Very 
inexpensive and very small. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
>> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.
> 
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's modes 
> have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's trivially 
> easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control the radio from 
> the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R switching.
> 
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
> 
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:

I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.


I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's 
modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's 
trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control 
the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R 
switching.


I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.

And I have no interest in a touch screen.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Doug Turnbull]

Wayne,
Upgradeable, God I like Elecraft and might I add modular is also very
nice so that one can gradually grow the rig to meek pocketbook and needs.
  73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: 25 March 2019 16:56
To: Bert
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?


> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens are unavoidable! 


The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for functions
accessed most frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they say, while
leveraging the touch screen for its versatility. 

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A touch
screen inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and in many
cases reduced time/effort. Examples include signal selection, zooming, etc.
Zooming should also be done right, by resampling at narrower resolution --
is shouldn't just be a "blow-up" of the original pixels, as implemented on
some existing radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for "high-end"
super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher than
necessary. Not only that, they're not configurable or upgradeable. Very
un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Fred Jensen]

Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, and 
modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to be 
known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of that.  
The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the first 
would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is re-invent 
the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever processor they 
use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it 
on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Raymond Sills via Elecraft]

Hi Neil:
I haven't read the fine print of the various software licenses, but it seems to 
me that FT8 is a "digital mode" and it might possibly be able to generate FT8 
compatible reception and transmission in multiple ways.Or, it might be possible 
to include a tiny linux computer inside a K4, into which you can load the FT8 
software, so it would always be in it's own universe... and not part of the 
radio's OS.
I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.  
Having said that, I'm pretty much a CW guy now... although I find it fun to be 
able to send and receive RTTY and PSK31 with my KX3.
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211FN20kg


-Original Message-
From: Neil Zampella 
To: elecraft 
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ


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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

 RE:  "What is most desirable when combining analog controls and digital 
interfaces is the ability to assign functions to various switches and 
buttons..."

EXCELLENT, Doug!!!  The best of both worlds!

In the aircraft world, both pilots have several multi-display screens, each 
with an array of hardware buttons arranged around them.  While their individual 
buttons may not be re-assignable, each display can be assigned to a specific 
function such as flight instruments, fuel system, weapons system, radar, etc.

In the case of a K4, that amount of real estate isn't available in a reasonable 
radio size, so the ability to assign functions to each button would be the next 
best thing.  User customizable hardware, beautiful color touch screen, 
flexibility for future expansion/changes, Elecraft ingenuity.

Mark
KE6BB

On Monday, March 25, 2019, 1:19:08 PM PDT, Doug Person  
wrote:  
 
 What is most desirable when combining analog controls and digital 
interfaces is the ability to assign functions to various switches and 
buttons. These can be arranged around the screen so that the control 
labels can be "soft" while the controls themselves are "hard". E.g., not 
everyone uses squelch, or rarely change cw sending speed. Being able to 
customize your control configuration would be very desirable. Different 
modes, different functions assigned to controls. This way, the number of 
controls are minimized while providing the best combination of hard 
controls for a particular mode or operating environment.

Doug -- KJ0F

  
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Tom]

Hi,
I agree the 7300 leaves a lot to be wanted for the touch screen.  It's not
the most intuitive.  I too had to look in the manual to figure out how to
change bands!
On the other hand, the IC-7610 is much more intuitive most likely due to
increased real-estate of the display.  The menus for example are very easy
to get used to.  The key point, is that the most used functions are buttons,
but the touch screen makes things like the menus very easy to use.
One of my pet peeves of the all in one radios is that the spectrum screens
are pretty poor in resolution.  I have yet to see any hardware panadapter
that has the display quality of the P3.
73 Tom

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Dave New, N8SBE
Sent: March 25, 2019 4:21 PM
To: Wayne Burdick ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?

I agree.

The radios I've seen with touch screens are a real compromise in usability.
Either the screen is too small to be useful, or it is so big that many hard
controls are sacrificed to avoid making the front panel too large. The worst
are the PC-based interfaces, where all hard controls are eliminated.

The IC-7300 is a case in point. When I first encountered one, I gave up
trying to figure out how to change bands, and had to ask the owner. Of
course, you just touch the MHz digit on the display! Obvious, I suppose, in
retrospect.

The problem with touch displays is similar to 'hidden' mouse movements on
PCs. Unless you've read the manual or had someone show you, it is entirely
not obvious how to do cool things with the mouse.

How many folks know that on Windows 7/10 if you drag a window to the right
or left side of the screen, that it will magically re-size to fill just the
right-half or the left-half of the screen? Makes it super simple to place
two instances of the file explorer side-by-side to assist in doing drag 'n
drop operations between windows.
How many know that if you drag the winnow top edge (as in a resize
operation) to the top of the screen it will automatically fill the screen
top to bottom? And if you subsequently drag it off the top, the window will
snap back to its original size and position?
How many know that if you grab a window title bar, and shake the mouse, that
all other windows will minimize? And if you shake the window again, they all
come back?

I'd bet that at least some of you just learned something about your PC that
you didn't know before. There is a least another dozen cool things (like
using Ctl-Windows-right or -left arrow on Windows 10 to access multiple
desktops of windows).

So, how do you implement cool touch- or mouse-movements without leaving
novice users in the dust?

That's the $64,000 question.

73,



---
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Dave New, N8SBE]

I agree.

The radios I've seen with touch screens are a real compromise in
usability. Either the screen is too small to be useful, or it is so big
that many hard controls are sacrificed to avoid making the front panel
too large. The worst are the PC-based interfaces, where all hard
controls are eliminated.

The IC-7300 is a case in point. When I first encountered one, I gave up
trying to figure out how to change bands, and had to ask the owner. Of
course, you just touch the MHz digit on the display! Obvious, I
suppose, in retrospect.

The problem with touch displays is similar to 'hidden' mouse movements
on PCs. Unless you've read the manual or had someone show you, it is
entirely not obvious how to do cool things with the mouse.

How many folks know that on Windows 7/10 if you drag a window to the
right or left side of the screen, that it will magically re-size to fill
just the right-half or the left-half of the screen? Makes it super
simple to place two instances of the file explorer side-by-side to
assist in doing drag 'n drop operations between windows.
How many know that if you drag the winnow top edge (as in a resize
operation) to the top of the screen it will automatically fill the
screen top to bottom? And if you subsequently drag it off the top, the
window will snap back to its original size and position?
How many know that if you grab a window title bar, and shake the mouse,
that all other windows will minimize? And if you shake the window
again, they all come back?

I'd bet that at least some of you just learned something about your PC
that you didn't know before. There is a least another dozen cool things
(like using Ctl-Windows-right or -left arrow on Windows 10 to access
multiple desktops of windows).

So, how do you implement cool touch- or mouse-movements without leaving
novice users in the dust?

That's the $64,000 question.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?
From: Wayne Burdick 
Date: Mon, March 25, 2019 12:56 pm
To: Bert 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 

The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for
functions accessed most frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they
say, while leveraging the touch screen for its versatility.

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A
touch screen inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and
in many cases reduced time/effort. Examples include signal selection,
zooming, etc. Zooming should also be done right, by resampling at
narrower resolution -- is shouldn't just be a "blow-up" of the original
pixels, as implemented on some existing radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for
"high-end" super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher
than necessary. Not only that, they're not configurable or upgradeable.
Very un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR
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[Elecraft] K4 request

[Charles Johnson via Elecraft]

I use the K3’s sub receiver quite a bit. 

My request is the display on the K4 should have enough real estate to show the 
same information for the sub receiver that is now shown for the main receiver, 
such as band width, NR, NB, shift, lo cut, hi cut, and of course, frequency. 
Please, no more “B SET” to get to the sub receiver’s operating parameters.

Touch screen? I would rather not have reach over and touch the screen (and 
hopefully not touch the wrong place) to change one of the radio’s basic 
functions. In fact, I could do without a touch screen altogether.

73, Charles, K4ZRJ


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Re: [Elecraft] K4? Voice commands

[Doug Person]

Mic for voice response is integrated into the radio. It is listening all 
the time. Wouldn't work otherwise.


"Ellie, turn on the VOX"

"I'm sorry Dave. You aren't paying attention. The VOX is already on..."

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 2:46 PM, Kidder, George wrote:

I have a distorted vision of the following:

Your K4 is on SSB, tuned to the net you are checked into.  Your VOX is
on - you forgot.

Your K4 (VOX already activated)  New features can be added.

At 13 other K4 stations, the speaker repeats "Ellie, turn on the VOX",
and these 13 rigs respond by doing so.

13 operators, not wanting the VOX on, say "Ellie, turn off the VOX",
which, since the VOX is now on, is transmitted (nearly simultaneously)
on the net frequency.

(etc. - complete or alter events to suit your own distorted imagination!)

It is enough to make a cow (Elsie) laugh.

George, W3HBM

On 3/25/2019 1:37 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to 
ab...@ilstu.edu]


On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:

Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
in our transceivers in the near future.

Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Doug Person]

Voice response. Voice modules have been available for various rigs for 
sometime. They don't listen and do what you ask. But they will read the 
S-meter, tell you what frequency/band you're one. It with be technically 
easy to build a small option box that would handle a voice interface. If 
a web server is built into a radio, a voice interface could be managed 
as a web app. There are many possibilities.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 11:02 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. 
Elecraft has always said they will provide support for blind operators.

I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
While those are certainly advantages, there are several 
disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t 
tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for 
you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think 
VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire 
things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented 
anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff 
are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and 
buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without 
having to see where they are. 

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[Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Gary Peterson]

In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features that 
should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver:

First, a “back” or “undo” button, not unlike an Internet browser.  Each press 
would undo the previous control change.  This could eliminate the pregnant 
pause that follows a “fat-finger” or “oops,” while trying to figure out what 
the heck I just did that put the radio in a less-than-desirable condition.  
Being able to quickly undo the last three or four button presses would be 
really neat.

Second, being able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with 
one’s license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a 
general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in the 
40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra class, the 
radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for example.  Many 
times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting outside their allocated 
sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while chasing DX.

Gary, KØCX  

“Inquiring minds want to know: 
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ?
Eric
elecraft.com”
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Re: [Elecraft] K4? Voice commands

[Kidder, George]

I have a distorted vision of the following:

Your K4 is on SSB, tuned to the net you are checked into.  Your VOX is 
on - you forgot.

Your K4 (VOX already activated)  "Ellie, turn on the VOX"

At 13 other K4 stations, the speaker repeats "Ellie, turn on the VOX", 
and these 13 rigs respond by doing so.

13 operators, not wanting the VOX on, say "Ellie, turn off the VOX", 
which, since the VOX is now on, is transmitted (nearly simultaneously) 
on the net frequency.

(etc. - complete or alter events to suit your own distorted imagination!)

It is enough to make a cow (Elsie) laugh.

George, W3HBM

On 3/25/2019 1:37 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> [This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to 
> ab...@ilstu.edu]
>
>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
>>
>> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
>> in our transceivers in the near future.
> Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

 RE:  "...They can also be replaced."

...and prices have come way down in the last 5 years or so.

Mark,
KE6BB



On Monday, March 25, 2019, 8:52:33 AM PDT, Doug Person  
wrote:  
 
 Modern screens last a long time and don't suffer nearly as much from 
burn-in. They can also be replaced.

Doug -- KJ0F

  
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Doug Person]

Gze! That's exactly what I had in 1962!

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
As and affluent high school kid,   I built my own 6DQ6 CW 
transmitter/crystal oscillator with most of the parts recovered from  
junk TV sets.   And I bought a used S-38B receiver.   I was a ham for 
40 years before I obtained my Collins station.


Many years and radios later, today there is a complete K Line on my 
operating desk.   It just doesn't get any better and I'm delighted in 
the experience and knowledge gained along the way.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 3/25/2019 12:41 PM, Bert wrote:
I could only dream about Collins, living on the other side of the 
pond at that time!


Bert VE3NR  (SM7BUR)



On 3/25/2019 1:38 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

Wow! Guess I was living on the other side of the tracks!

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:51 AM, W2xj  wrote:

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a 
triband beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500.

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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

 RE:   "...a large percentage of the time a touch screen does not respond to my 
finger."

I thought it was just me!  I also have a problem with selecting the wrong 
thing, which is extremely time consuming and frustrating.  That is probably due 
to my essential tremors which have increased with my age, as expected.  That 
kept me from selling my KX3 and buying an IC-7300 (LOVE the screen!)...well, 
that and portability and Elecraft support and the KX3 receiver and...

Mark
KE6BB


On Monday, March 25, 2019, 11:53:30 AM PDT, Al Lorona 
 wrote:  
 
 ...It must be just me, because a large percentage of the time a touch screen 
does not respond to my finger. I have experienced this at ATMs, at the self 
checkout at Home Depot, at the airport, on my smart phone, etc. When you have 
to stand there, tapping over and over to get them to respond, touch screens 
just aren't as reliable, responsive, accurate, or fast as a control.


...I'm a little surprised others haven't had the same experience as Thaddeus. 
Maybe they're just too shy to admit it.


The next time you tap something on your phone, and you have to tap again to get 
it to work, I want you to think of me.


Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated computer? 
This would not be folding the source into other code. It's just 
installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another device. 
It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it on my 
Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is 
NOT

open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
(KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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---
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Doug Person]

It's actually very cheap to do. You could program a voice chip with an 
arduino or raspberry pi. It's more "should you" rather than "could you". 
And then consider people with a handicap. A voice option would be a 
God-send for the sight impaired and those with poor hand/eye 
coordination or who suffer from conditions that make manipulating small 
knobs difficult.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Bert wrote:

Hi Phil,

Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
in our transceivers in the near future. The ham radio market is probably
too small to make this feature commercially viable. Again, dollars and 
cents!

OMHO!

Bert VE3NR



On 3/25/2019 12:23 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
I believe many future electronic devices will not have a touch 
screen.  They will have a voice interface.  In fact, a number of 
devices in my home right now are voice operated and it seems to work 
just fine and this capability is improving rapidly in the industry.


For example, my 2018 Toyota RAV4/Hybrid has a touch screen system.  I 
also have my iPhone coupled to the RAV4 so I make calls hands free 
merely by saying something like "Siri, call home".  I also play music 
I have on my iPhone.  Instead of using the touch-screen music 
browsing system, I merely say "Siri, play Beatles One" or whatever.  
I have actually named my music playlists with names easy to use Siri 
for this interface.


And, instead of doing simple time-zone arithmetic, I have the habit 
of saying "Alexa, what is GMT time for now".  Alexa answers clearly 
with date and time.


phil, K7PEH


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:

Touch screens are unavoidable! Most future electronic devices will 
have have touch screens as I/O interface.


You can wish whatever you want, but if the device/radio is not 
commercially viable, it will never happen,

i.e. it always comes down to dollars and cents!

BTW, the best device you have is between your ears! ;-)

Bert VE3NR



On 3/25/2019 11:51 AM, Doug Person wrote:
Modern screens last a long time and don't suffer nearly as much 
from burn-in. They can also be replaced.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 10:58 PM, mrkgnthr--- via Elecraft wrote:
I keep seeing all the desires for a big color screen.  I have seen 
too many of these color screens that have burn in and failure.  I 
like my nice yellow screen that is always readable, and if damaged 
can be replaced for less than the cost of a new radio.  I like a 
radio that I can pick up and carry without straining my back.    I 
like the separate modules that can be upgraded.  The price was a 
little steep, but every time I turn it on I smile and know it was 
worth it


Mark.  WB7TLK


Sent from my iPad


On Mar 24, 2019, at 20:38, John_N1JM  wrote:

This message has no content.

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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

The argument for is simple, and compelling for a company like Elecraft.

I know that my KX3 has functions that were not even dreamed of when the 
front panel layout and silkscreen were finalized.


They've cleverly added these modes and functions by "overloading" 
buttons -- push twice, push and hold, etc.


If the front panel is a touch-screen with the buttons drawn in, the 
panel layout can be updated as part of a firmware upgrade.


For a manufacturer who releases a new model every few months and never 
enhances the existing products, the argument is not as compelling.


-- Lynn

On 3/25/2019 11:51 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

I don't think you guys understood me. I shouldn't have veiled my concern with a 
tongue-in-cheek post.

So I will be direct. I was referring to the physiological event of touching a 
screen with a finger. It must be just me, because a large percentage of the 
time a touch screen does not respond to my finger. I have experienced this at 
ATMs, at the self checkout at Home Depot, at the airport, on my smart phone, 
etc. When you have to stand there, tapping over and over to get them to 
respond, touch screens just aren't as reliable, responsive, accurate, or fast 
as a control.

Touch screens are beautiful, but they seem to ignore me. My fingers are 
low-capacitance, I guess! For that reason, I wouldn't tolerate one any more 
than I would tolerate a sticky volume control that took three or four twists 
before the volume turned up. None of us would put up with that.

I'm a little surprised others haven't had the same experience as Thaddeus. 
Maybe they're just too shy to admit it.

The next time you tap something on your phone, and you have to tap again to get 
it to work, I want you to think of me.

Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Doug Person]

What is most desirable when combining analog controls and digital 
interfaces is the ability to assign functions to various switches and 
buttons. These can be arranged around the screen so that the control 
labels can be "soft" while the controls themselves are "hard". E.g., not 
everyone uses squelch, or rarely change cw sending speed. Being able to 
customize your control configuration would be very desirable. Different 
modes, different functions assigned to controls. This way, the number of 
controls are minimized while providing the best combination of hard 
controls for a particular mode or operating environment.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 11:56 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:

Touch screens are unavoidable!


The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for functions accessed most 
frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they say, while leveraging the touch screen for 
its versatility.

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A touch screen 
inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and in many cases reduced 
time/effort. Examples include signal selection, zooming, etc. Zooming should also be done 
right, by resampling at narrower resolution -- is shouldn't just be a "blow-up" 
of the original pixels, as implemented on some existing radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for "high-end" 
super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher than necessary. Not only 
that, they're not configurable or upgradeable. Very un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[David Christ]

What I was thinking.  But in addition let me add something else that would 
limit who could use it.  I have a progressively worsening case of tremor in my 
hands.  Grabbing a knob and turning it works fine but hitting a specific spot 
on a screen is a hit or miss operation.  The finer the detail the worse it is.  
Add to that the problem I have with touch screens not recognizing my finger 
makes it worse.  

David K0LUM

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. Elecraft 
> has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
> I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Jim Brown]

Things I would like to see in a K4:

Fix the Pin One Problems on the I/O board and front panel mic input and 
ditch the transformers, which are not required if proper bonding is 
implemented in the station.


Pure Signal.

Greatly improved noise reduction. The best I've ever heard was 
demonstrated to me by former neighbor NR0V (author of Pure Signal) in 
software he wrote for ANAN SDR radios -- it is an order of magnitude 
better than anything I've ever heard.


Ethernet and USB interface for audio and control.

I/Q output.

Improved P3 functionality -- greater amplitude resolution, ability to 
interface with contest logging software like N1MM. It would be great to 
have the electronics inside the transceiver, with output to a computer 
monitor.


Maintain the small footprint, keep the spectral display in a separate 
box if necessary to make it fit so that it can be above, on either side 
of the radio, or even somewhere else. All of this can be very important 
in making a lot of functionality fit on an operating desk.  My P3s sit 
on top of the K3s.


As much as possible support for remote operation built in.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Lamont]

On 25/03/2019 00:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Something like the Flex / Anan SDRs, but with RX performance to match
the K3S. So maybe a 24-bit direct-sampling SDR, if such a thing is even
possible, with a open-source cross-platform application to drive it.
(For me, Windows = showstopper.)

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Wes]

Speaking of F22s, I got to see a demo of one at this weekend's airshow at 
DMAFB.  Also on hand were the USAF Thunderbirds.  I think there are a lot 
politicians who should have to attend one of these to see how tax money should 
be spent.


I understand the gloves comment.  It's a PITA to have to remove my gloves while 
driving to simply change a radio station.


On 3/25/2019 11:50 AM, Mark Petiford via Elecraft wrote:

  RE:  You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew.

You assume that aircraft with flat panel displays utilize touch screens.  The 
military aircraft I have worked (Design Engineering) that have flat panel 
displays do NOT utilize touch displays.  The reasons are primarily touch 
resolution, and stability.

Military pilots must be able to select functions while wearing heavy gloves, so they do not have great 
resolution as to where their touch will land.  They must also be able to reliably select functions during 
high G loading, both natural (turbulence) and induced (maneuvering).  Consequently, their flat displays 
usually consist of the main display, surrounded by hardware buttons (switches) which are separated with 
raised "dividers" or "walls" to separate the buttons. These buttons have small on-screen 
labels that change depending on which screen is being displayed.  We used to call these "soft 
buttons".


I could go on, but will stop with that.  While I love the modern flat screen color 
displays (my uBITX will have one soon),  I must side with Wayne in that the functions 
that must be addressed when time is critical (can't remember how Wayne described it) 
should be hard buttons or "soft buttons" noted above).

Mark,
KE6BB



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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Grant Youngman]

It is of some note that (except for a niggle here or there including the 
elimination of all possible noise — good luck with that) there hasn’t been much 
said about basic performance of the radio.  That’s for good reason.

I would like to see a feature that would eliminate all “shouting at the K3” 
anytime one’s attached Windows-something computer running 15 ham radio apps 
gets confused and can’t talk to the radio or screws something up :-) 

Most of the feature requests seem to be related to contesting or remote 
operation or the furthering of the evolutionary enhancement of the index finger 
— but not being a gamer myself, I’m perfectly happy with a radio being just a … 
ah … um … compact, lightweight, transportable (and portable) high performance 
radio.  Bogged down into a larger and heavier box? — not so much.  I replaced 
several of those larger, heavier, and perfectly adequate boxes with a K3 for a 
reason.  It would be hard to go back.

Now, all that might change if the new one was truly “spectacular” and made the 
K3 look like a DX-20 by comparison — the right radio could be better than food 
on the table :-). And I do like the EER idea.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 2:35 PM, W2xj  wrote:
> 
> I’ve read a lot of interesting ideas relating mostly to features. Here are 
> some cutting (or should I say bleeding) edge ideas.
> 
> The most radical would be to eliminate linear amplification on transmit. 
> Instead, go with a class E design and in DSP generate EER compatible signals. 
> This is how very high powered commercial transmitters do SSB but any waveform 
> can be generated that way. Efficiency goes to nearly 90% as opposed to less 
> than 50% for a linear. IMD can be lower than -80 db while power consumption 
> is reduced and there is less heat to remove. This would be a radical 
> departure from the competition and work well in portable operation. 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: P3 with P3TXMON for sale

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

email: nelasat (at) yahoo (dot) com Elecraft P3, P3TXMON & DCHF-2000  
Excellent condition. 
 
Selling for $725 with free shipping. 
Cleared check or MO. Can take PayPal if you want to pay. 
 
73, 
 
Keith, KV5J 

 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: K144XV 2 meter internal module for sale.

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

Missing email:  nelasat (at) Yahoo (dot) com
Elecraft P3, P3TXMON & DCHF-2000  
Excellent condition. 

Selling for $725 with free shipping. 
Cleared check or MO. Can take PayPal if you want to pay. 

73, 

Keith, KV5J 

Keith
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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Al Lorona]

I don't think you guys understood me. I shouldn't have veiled my concern with a 
tongue-in-cheek post.

So I will be direct. I was referring to the physiological event of touching a 
screen with a finger. It must be just me, because a large percentage of the 
time a touch screen does not respond to my finger. I have experienced this at 
ATMs, at the self checkout at Home Depot, at the airport, on my smart phone, 
etc. When you have to stand there, tapping over and over to get them to 
respond, touch screens just aren't as reliable, responsive, accurate, or fast 
as a control.

Touch screens are beautiful, but they seem to ignore me. My fingers are 
low-capacitance, I guess! For that reason, I wouldn't tolerate one any more 
than I would tolerate a sticky volume control that took three or four twists 
before the volume turned up. None of us would put up with that.

I'm a little surprised others haven't had the same experience as Thaddeus. 
Maybe they're just too shy to admit it.

The next time you tap something on your phone, and you have to tap again to get 
it to work, I want you to think of me.

Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

 RE:  You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince 
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew.

You assume that aircraft with flat panel displays utilize touch screens.  The 
military aircraft I have worked (Design Engineering) that have flat panel 
displays do NOT utilize touch displays.  The reasons are primarily touch 
resolution, and stability.

Military pilots must be able to select functions while wearing heavy gloves, so 
they do not have great resolution as to where their touch will land.  They must 
also be able to reliably select functions during high G loading, both natural 
(turbulence) and induced (maneuvering).  Consequently, their flat displays 
usually consist of the main display, surrounded by hardware buttons (switches) 
which are separated with raised "dividers" or "walls" to separate the buttons. 
These buttons have small on-screen labels that change depending on which screen 
is being displayed.  We used to call these "soft buttons".


I could go on, but will stop with that.  While I love the modern flat screen 
color displays (my uBITX will have one soon),  I must side with Wayne in that 
the functions that must be addressed when time is critical (can't remember how 
Wayne described it) should be hard buttons or "soft buttons" noted above).

Mark,
KE6BB



On Monday, March 25, 2019, 8:45:26 AM PDT, Doug Person  
wrote:  
 
 You assume that touch screens are inherently unreliable. Try to convince 
and F22 pilot of that, or a 777 gunnery crew. There is so much military 
hardware that is dependent on touch screens that your argument just 
doesn't hold up. This technology is decades old now. You may find some 
poorly designed stuff that is unreliable. But, its due to poor design - 
both physically and in software. Hopefully, if there is a touch screen 
K4, the K3s will stay around for those that prefer buttons and switches.

Doug -- KJ0F


  
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Jim Brown]

Me too -- my first station was a surplus BC-459 Command set for 40M, 
modified and given to me by one of the hams in the club that taught me 
CW and radio theory, and an S38D receiver.  On a trip to Manhattan, my 
dad later bought me an ARC5  for 80M for which he paid about $15 from a 
shop on "radio row" in lower Manhattan that advertised in the back pages 
of QST. He described it as pretty rough territory.  A few years of 
saving from summer jobs got me much better receiver, a BC348.


73, Jim K9YC

On 3/25/2019 10:38 AM, Josh Fiden wrote:

Wow! Guess I was living on the other side of the tracks!

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:51 AM, W2xj  wrote:

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a triband 
beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500.



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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[W2xj]

I’ve read a lot of interesting ideas relating mostly to features. Here are some 
cutting (or should I say bleeding) edge ideas.

The most radical would be to eliminate linear amplification on transmit. 
Instead, go with a class E design and in DSP generate EER compatible signals. 
This is how very high powered commercial transmitters do SSB but any waveform 
can be generated that way. Efficiency goes to nearly 90% as opposed to less 
than 50% for a linear. IMD can be lower than -80 db while power consumption is 
reduced and there is less heat to remove. This would be a radical departure 
from the competition and work well in portable operation. 

Bluetooth audio in and out.

As previously discussed, a built in webserver that is compatible with all 
devices adhering to HTML standards along with SNMP compatibility.

And, of course, the well discussed touchscreen. 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 6:15 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:

SO2R with out ground loop problems ..or Rock solid SO2R solution...for k3s
or other radios. I have the MK2R+ and I want a better solution.


Simple solution -- implement proper bonding in your station. Described here

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

and in N0AX's recent ARRL book on the topic.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Terry Schieler]

Or, perhaps."Hey ELMER"   ;o)

Terry, WØFM



-Original Message-
From: Walter Underwood [mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org] 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 12:38 PM
To: Elecraft mail list
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see 
> it in our transceivers in the near future.

Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)



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Re: [Elecraft] K4? voice recognition

[Kevin der Kinderen]

Yes... but did he say OK ELECRAFT first?



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 2:01 PM Ralph Parker  wrote:

> > I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible...
>
> Except when the guy on the other end of your rag-chew says "QRT", and your
> radio turns itself off.
>
> VE7XF
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Peter Dougherty]

I'm not a fan of touch screens personally. Never have been, never will be. I
prefer transceivers with discrete controls. When the money became available
for a top of the line transceiver it was down to two: K3 or Yaesu FTDX 5000.
The only reason I bought the K3s at the time was the Yaesu was about 2"
wider than the opening in the desk (it previously held a Mark-V). I loved
the plethora of physical buttons and the nicer display on that radio, but
the extreme performance of the K3s, coupled with its size, ultimately sealed
the deal. 

Take the guts of a K3s, make some improvements as needed, add discrete band
buttons, TCP/IP remote control, and I/Q out and that's all I'd ever want or
need from a radio.

 - pjd

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 12:56 PM
To: Bert 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?


> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens are unavoidable! 


The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for functions
accessed most frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they say, while
leveraging the touch screen for its versatility. 

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A touch
screen inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and in many
cases reduced time/effort. Examples include signal selection, zooming, etc.
Zooming should also be done right, by resampling at narrower resolution --
is shouldn't just be a "blow-up" of the original pixels, as implemented on
some existing radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for "high-end"
super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher than
necessary. Not only that, they're not configurable or upgradeable. Very
un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Edward R Cole]

Re: K4 with touch-pad.

Not all will want that.  I suggest it made as and add-on accessory in 
matching cabinet and include spectrum display (of course).  On the 
main radio a simple screen on/off switch to go from manual controls 
to touch-screen.  Maybe it could do double-duty as remote panel with 
IP interface.


Keep diversity dual-Rx  and provide I/Q interface for both Rx or 
include a top-end ADC's for computer I/F (suggest you look at the 
UADC4 to see a top-end unit).  An ext I/Q connection as alternate to 
internal ADC is another option.  Soundcards are old fashion way do 
ADC and most fall short of the performance spec of the radio.


Please keep the K4/10 option vs K4/100.  KXPA100 works well with both 
my K3/10 and KX3.  If you do a K4/500 please make that an option.

Kit versions such as done with K3 would be nice.

Trying to embed digital mode sw is not a good idea as there is 
constant upgrading to many.  Unless you intend to install a dedicated 
micro internal to the radio (please shield well for digital 
noise).  Then either mouse/keyboard or touch screen keyboard is needed.


If direct-conversion SDR is to be used can freq range include 2m.  If 
you want to play in the satellite market then also need 432-438 MHz 
and crossband duplex with 144-MHz.  Also ensure freq range extends to 
630m band.


A better approach to covering 144/222/432/900/1296 would be a 
transverter accessory box.  Consider PLL LO's referenced to 10-MHz 
std. At least 25w on VHF+.  Please use N-connectors on 144+.


Better NB/NR

Others have covered the rest, so not going to repeat all.

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] K4? voice recognition

[Ralph Parker]

I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible...


Except when the guy on the other end of your rag-chew says "QRT", and your 
radio turns itself off.

VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Andy McMullin]

No good for me. Our (electric) car is already called Ellie. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:37, Walter Underwood  wrote:

> 
> Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj


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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Wayne Burdick]

We've always provided a host API that access to virtually 100% of the controls 
so voice interfaces can be designed for attached computers. This would be true 
even if we did a radio with a touch screen.

And as I said earlier, the emphasis should be on hard controls for things used 
most often. 

Wayne
N6KR



> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. Elecraft 
> has always said they will provide support for blind operators.
> I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. 
>> Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at 
>> them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it 
>> means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView 
>> on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has 
>> implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of 
>> stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and 
>> buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to 
>> see where they are. 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Peter Dougherty]

Don't laugh--I'd pay good coin for that ability! (still love that movie, too)

 - pjd

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:47 PM
To: Walter Underwood 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4?

Or it could just listening all the time. 

It might be like that scene in the movie "Contact," where Jodie Foster hears 
E.T., rips off her headphones, then drives away from the VLA (exceeding the 
Government's posted speed limit) while shouting instructions to the guys in the 
lab. 

Jodie:  "14020 on A, up 1.5 on B! 50 Hz bandwidth, E-W Yagi at 42 degrees. 
Now!!"

Lab guy, smirking:  "It ain't local"

Wayne
N6KR


> On Mar 25, 2019, at 10:37 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
>> 
>> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll 
>> see it in our transceivers in the near future.
> 
> Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.


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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

As and affluent high school kid,   I built my own 6DQ6 CW 
transmitter/crystal oscillator with most of the parts recovered from  
junk TV sets.   And I bought a used S-38B receiver.   I was a ham for 40 
years before I obtained my Collins station.


Many years and radios later, today there is a complete K Line on my 
operating desk.   It just doesn't get any better and I'm delighted in 
the experience and knowledge gained along the way.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 3/25/2019 12:41 PM, Bert wrote:
I could only dream about Collins, living on the other side of the pond 
at that time!


Bert VE3NR  (SM7BUR)



On 3/25/2019 1:38 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

Wow! Guess I was living on the other side of the tracks!

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:51 AM, W2xj  wrote:

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a 
triband beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500.

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

Or it could just listening all the time. 

It might be like that scene in the movie "Contact," where Jodie Foster hears 
E.T., rips off her headphones, then drives away from the VLA (exceeding the 
Government's posted speed limit) while shouting instructions to the guys in the 
lab. 

Jodie:  "14020 on A, up 1.5 on B! 50 Hz bandwidth, E-W Yagi at 42 degrees. 
Now!!"

Lab guy, smirking:  "It ain't local"

Wayne
N6KR


> On Mar 25, 2019, at 10:37 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
>> 
>> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
>> in our transceivers in the near future. 
> 
> Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.


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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Buddy Brannan]

Heh. News to me. I’ve been operating without displays for 31 years and change 
:-)

Although, I admit, voice-activated interfaces don’t seem to be terribly 
compatible with rooms full of ops shouting “CQ contest” … 

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 1:31 PM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> You would still need some kind of display to verify the voice instruction
> or order to the radio, so one way or another you need something visual.
> 
> I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible, but nothing
> you can see/verify after the fact.
> 
> A screen of some kind seems to be necessary for convenience - touch or 
> otherwise!
> 
> Bert VE3NR
> 
> 
> On 3/25/2019 1:16 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Phil,
>>> 
>>> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
>>> in our transceivers in the near future. The ham radio market is probably
>>> too small to make this feature commercially viable. Again, dollars and 
>>> cents!
>>> OMHO!
>>> 
>>> Bert VE3NR
>> 
>> On the other hand, if your radio had a general-purpose Linux single-board 
>> computer designed  in, with Ethernet access, you could pretty easily include 
>> voice recognition either locally or internet-enabled at zero cost.
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bert]

I could only dream about Collins, living on the other side of the pond 
at that time!


Bert VE3NR  (SM7BUR)



On 3/25/2019 1:38 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

Wow! Guess I was living on the other side of the tracks!

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:51 AM, W2xj  wrote:

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a triband 
beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500.

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Walter Underwood]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
> in our transceivers in the near future. 

Instead of “Hey Siri!” we could say “Hey Ellie!” to our Elecraft gear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Josh Fiden]

Wow! Guess I was living on the other side of the tracks! 

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:51 AM, W2xj  wrote:
> 
> When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a triband 
> beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500.

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

Bert  wrote:

> 
> You would still need some kind of display to verify the voice instruction
> or order to the radio, so one way or another you need something visual.
> 
> I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible, but nothing
> you can see/verify after the fact.
> 
> A screen of some kind seems to be necessary for convenience - touch or 
> otherwise!


Yes. 7" diagonal would provide the ideal tradeoff between screen size and the 
portion of the front panel dedicated to hard controls. The display should have 
much higher resolution than 800x480 (IC7610), IMHO.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bert]

You would still need some kind of display to verify the voice instruction
or order to the radio, so one way or another you need something visual.

I guess an audio response to your verbal instruction is possible, but 
nothing

you can see/verify after the fact.

A screen of some kind seems to be necessary for convenience - touch or 
otherwise!


Bert VE3NR


On 3/25/2019 1:16 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Bert  wrote:

Hi Phil,

Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
in our transceivers in the near future. The ham radio market is probably
too small to make this feature commercially viable. Again, dollars and cents!
OMHO!

Bert VE3NR


On the other hand, if your radio had a general-purpose Linux single-board 
computer designed  in, with Ethernet access, you could pretty easily include 
voice recognition either locally or internet-enabled at zero cost.

Wayne
N6KR




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[Elecraft] OT: K144XV 2 meter internal module for sale.

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

K144XV 2 meter internal module.Working 100%.
Only $265 shipped. 
Keith, KV5J
nelasat (at) yahoo (dot) com
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 VFO problem - RESOLVED

[Tom Johnson]

Thanks, Don Wilhelm, your intuition was correct:  I installed a 120pF
capacitor at C12. When I replaced it with the correct 1200pF capacitor the
frequency display worked! 

73,
Tom
KQ7TJ


Don Wilhelm wrote
> Tom,
> 
> Triple check C11 and C12 to be certain they are both 1200pF and that you 
> did not use the 120pF capacitor for one of them.
> 
> Build yourself an RF Probe.  The schematic for one is shown in the K1 
> Manual Appendix on Troubleshooting.  You can also purchase a kit from 
> Elecraft.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 3/23/2019 10:03 PM, Tom Johnson wrote:
> 
>> I am awaiting arrival of an RF Probe kit so I can do signal testing to
>> attempt to trace down my problem.  In the meantime I have looked over my
>> board to the point it's invading my dreams, and I do not see any visible
>> problem with the installation of any of the parts, with special attention
>> to: Q9, Q1, R11, R12, L1, C2.
>> 
>> I did see that I had not firmly seated U1, and corrected that:  I was
>> hoping
>> that would do the trick, but it did not - still get the E42 code.
>> 
>> It just seems to me that as everything tested out fine up until the
>> installation of the L1 Toroid and the C2 capacitor (I'm using 68 pF disc
>> for
>> the 80 kHz range), that the issue should be centered there.  I've
>> confirmed
>> the 33 turns on the toroid, and fiddled with the it's placement.  I'm
>> wondering if the winding direction makes a difference in the functioning
>> of
>> L1 - there is no picture of it in the manual, only a reference back to
>> previous toroids, and I have wound it to match them.  I've also confirmed
>> continuity of the windings on L1.
>> 
>> Lastly, I will reveal my testing ignorance here by mentioning my
>> multimeter
>> does measure frequency, but I am not sure if that applies in this case:
>> ie,
>> would that function as an RF Probe if I understood how to use it?
>> 
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--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Hi Phil,
> 
> Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
> in our transceivers in the near future. The ham radio market is probably
> too small to make this feature commercially viable. Again, dollars and cents!
> OMHO!
> 
> Bert VE3NR


On the other hand, if your radio had a general-purpose Linux single-board 
computer designed  in, with Ethernet access, you could pretty easily include 
voice recognition either locally or internet-enabled at zero cost.

Wayne
N6KR


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[Elecraft] K4?

[Szabó István]

Could only the front panel partially replaced with large colour screen? 
One could play computer games (attract the grandchildren), others watch 
IPTV when the bands are dead and finally the HAMs could control the 
current radio. There may be more than one option. Personally I like the 
mono display, easy to read, large characters. The 5"x4" central face 
could be the screen, easy readability is important in high lighting. Is 
it feasible economically? One thing is very important no gimmick just 
functionality. Current radios are fantastic, no need more for me, I am 
happy with K3.


73, Istvan HA4ZD


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Neil Zampella]

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
(KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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[Elecraft] OT: P3 with P3TXMON for sale

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

Elecraft P3, P3TXMON & DCHF-2000 
Excellent condition.

Selling for $725 with free shipping.
Cleared check or MO. Can take PayPal if you want to pay.

73,

Keith, KV5J

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bert]

Hi Phil,

Voice interface is OK with household electronics but I doubt we'll see it
in our transceivers in the near future. The ham radio market is probably
too small to make this feature commercially viable. Again, dollars and 
cents!

OMHO!

Bert VE3NR



On 3/25/2019 12:23 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

I believe many future electronic devices will not have a touch screen.  They 
will have a voice interface.  In fact, a number of devices in my home right now 
are voice operated and it seems to work just fine and this capability is 
improving rapidly in the industry.

For example, my 2018 Toyota RAV4/Hybrid has a touch screen system.  I also have my iPhone coupled 
to the RAV4 so I make calls hands free merely by saying something like "Siri, call home". 
 I also play music I have on my iPhone.  Instead of using the touch-screen music browsing system, I 
merely say "Siri, play Beatles One" or whatever.  I have actually named my music 
playlists with names easy to use Siri for this interface.

And, instead of doing simple time-zone arithmetic, I have the habit of saying 
"Alexa, what is GMT time for now".  Alexa answers clearly with date and time.

phil, K7PEH


On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:

Touch screens are unavoidable! Most future electronic devices will have have 
touch screens as I/O interface.

You can wish whatever you want, but if the device/radio is not commercially 
viable, it will never happen,
i.e. it always comes down to dollars and cents!

BTW, the best device you have is between your ears! ;-)

Bert VE3NR



On 3/25/2019 11:51 AM, Doug Person wrote:

Modern screens last a long time and don't suffer nearly as much from burn-in. 
They can also be replaced.

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 10:58 PM, mrkgnthr--- via Elecraft wrote:

I keep seeing all the desires for a big color screen.  I have seen too many of 
these color screens that have burn in and failure.  I like my nice yellow 
screen that is always readable, and if damaged can be replaced for less than 
the cost of a new radio.  I like a radio that I can pick up and carry without 
straining my back.I like the separate modules that can be upgraded.  The 
price was a little steep, but every time I turn it on I smile and know it was 
worth it

Mark.  WB7TLK


Sent from my iPad


On Mar 24, 2019, at 20:38, John_N1JM  wrote:

This message has no content.

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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens are unavoidable! 


The trick is to provide a full complement of "hard" controls for functions 
accessed most frequently, "in the heat of battle," as they say, while 
leveraging the touch screen for its versatility. 

Touchable fields can be added as a backup/shortcut to hard controls. A touch 
screen inherently offers immediate context-sensitive feedback and in many cases 
reduced time/effort. Examples include signal selection, zooming, etc. Zooming 
should also be done right, by resampling at narrower resolution -- is shouldn't 
just be a "blow-up" of the original pixels, as implemented on some existing 
radios.

Ultimately, get what you pay for. That said, current prices for "high-end" 
super-radios are ridiculous; they're two to four times higher than necessary. 
Not only that, they're not configurable or upgradeable. Very un-Elecraft like.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[W2xj]

When I was in high school my first station was Collins S Line and a triband 
beam on a 50 foot tower. Also, a Viking 500. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Peter Spotts  wrote:
> 
> Yes, the economics can be brutal. But the investment gap was ever thus. I'm a 
> boomer who first learned of amateur radio when I was in junior high school. I 
> wouldn't get my license until many years later. But I pored through Heathkit, 
> Allied, and Lafayette catalogs and visited our local Henry Radio store 
> looking longingly at the radios. Then, as now, there was a wide range of 
> price and performance. IIRC, the gold standard, or so it seemed, was the 
> original Collins line, before Rockwell bought them out. My meager in-person 
> sampling of stations at the time yielded a similar observation to yours: more 
> Heathkits, Drakes, Atlases, and others than Collins.
> 
> 
> In the end, I guess, we pay the price we must for a radio that meets our 
> operating interests and needs, and change radios if or as those interests 
> change.
> 
> 
> As a mid-price-ish rig, "We'll always have the K2 [he hoped]; here's QSLin' 
> you, kid."
> 
> 
> A satisfied K1, KX1 builder/user...
> 
> 
> W/best regards,
> 
> Pete
> --
> 
> --
> Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
> ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
> http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
> QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
> NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348
> 
>> On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
>> one thing which has been seemingly omitted. PRICE! Yep, hams want
>> radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
>> performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
>> of sales of radios in this price range. A large majority of hams today
>> do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio. Yes I know the
>> technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
>> component of price. But still, hams want inexpensive radios. It may
>> not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
>> Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.
>> 
>> 
>> ICOM IC-7300 = $979; Yaesu FT 991A = $1100; Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
>> Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300; Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000
>> 
>> 
>> Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
>> but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> Very happy with my:
>> 
>> 
>> K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
> ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
> http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
> QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
> NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348
> 
> 
>> On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>> 
>> With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
>> one thing which has been seemingly omitted.PRICE!Yep, hams want
>> radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
>> performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
>> of sales of radios in this price range.   A large majority of hams today
>> do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio.   Yes I know the
>> technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
>> component of price.  But still, hams want inexpensive radios.   It may
>> not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
>> Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.
>> 
>> ICOM IC-7300 = $979;  Yaesu FT 991A = $1100;  Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
>> Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300;  Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000
>> 
>> Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
>> but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> Very happy with my:
>> 
>> K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3
>> 
>> 
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> Thi

Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Phil Hystad via Elecraft]

I believe many future electronic devices will not have a touch screen.  They 
will have a voice interface.  In fact, a number of devices in my home right now 
are voice operated and it seems to work just fine and this capability is 
improving rapidly in the industry.

For example, my 2018 Toyota RAV4/Hybrid has a touch screen system.  I also have 
my iPhone coupled to the RAV4 so I make calls hands free merely by saying 
something like "Siri, call home".  I also play music I have on my iPhone.  
Instead of using the touch-screen music browsing system, I merely say "Siri, 
play Beatles One" or whatever.  I have actually named my music playlists with 
names easy to use Siri for this interface.

And, instead of doing simple time-zone arithmetic, I have the habit of saying 
"Alexa, what is GMT time for now".  Alexa answers clearly with date and time.

phil, K7PEH

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Bert  wrote:
> 
> Touch screens are unavoidable! Most future electronic devices will have have 
> touch screens as I/O interface.
> 
> You can wish whatever you want, but if the device/radio is not commercially 
> viable, it will never happen,
> i.e. it always comes down to dollars and cents!
> 
> BTW, the best device you have is between your ears! ;-)
> 
> Bert VE3NR
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/25/2019 11:51 AM, Doug Person wrote:
>> Modern screens last a long time and don't suffer nearly as much from 
>> burn-in. They can also be replaced.
>> 
>> Doug -- KJ0F
>> 
>> On 3/24/2019 10:58 PM, mrkgnthr--- via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I keep seeing all the desires for a big color screen.  I have seen too many 
>>> of these color screens that have burn in and failure.  I like my nice 
>>> yellow screen that is always readable, and if damaged can be replaced for 
>>> less than the cost of a new radio.  I like a radio that I can pick up and 
>>> carry without straining my back.I like the separate modules that can be 
>>> upgraded.  The price was a little steep, but every time I turn it on I 
>>> smile and know it was worth it
>>> 
>>> Mark.  WB7TLK
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Mar 24, 2019, at 20:38, John_N1JM  wrote:
 
 This message has no content.
>>> __
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>>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Peter Spotts]

Yes, the economics can be brutal. But the investment gap was ever thus. I'm 
a boomer who first learned of amateur radio when I was in junior high 
school. I wouldn't get my license until many years later. But I pored 
through Heathkit, Allied, and Lafayette catalogs and visited our local 
Henry Radio store looking longingly at the radios. Then, as now, there was 
a wide range of price and performance. IIRC, the gold standard, or so it 
seemed, was the original Collins line, before Rockwell bought them out. My 
meager in-person sampling of stations at the time yielded a similar 
observation to yours: more Heathkits, Drakes, Atlases, and others than Collins.



In the end, I guess, we pay the price we must for a radio that meets our 
operating interests and needs, and change radios if or as those interests 
change.



As a mid-price-ish rig, "We'll always have the K2 [he hoped]; here's QSLin' 
you, kid."



A satisfied K1, KX1 builder/user...


W/best regards,

Pete
--

--
Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348

On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:


With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
one thing which has been seemingly omitted. PRICE! Yep, hams want
radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
of sales of radios in this price range. A large majority of hams today
do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio. Yes I know the
technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
component of price. But still, hams want inexpensive radios. It may
not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.


ICOM IC-7300 = $979; Yaesu FT 991A = $1100; Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300; Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000


Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.




73


Bob, K4TAX


Very happy with my:


K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3




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Peter N. Spotts -- NM5PS
ARRL Public Information Coordinator, New Mexico Section
http://www.nm5ps.net | Email: nm...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
QCWA #34679 | SKCC #4853S | QRP-ARCI #4174 | CalQRP #67
NEQRP #714 | NAQCC #2446 | G-QRP #13202 | Polar Bear #348


On March 25, 2019 08:45:07 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:


With all of the wonderful ideas and features advanced for a K4, I find
one thing which has been seemingly omitted.PRICE!Yep, hams want
radios with all the features whistle band bells along with alleged
performance.. in the $1000 price range. Look at the volume
of sales of radios in this price range.   A large majority of hams today
do not have $3500 to $6500 to invest in a radio.   Yes I know the
technology, engineering investment and cost to produce is a major
component of price.  But still, hams want inexpensive radios.   It may
not be feasible to produce a product in the $1000 price range, but ICOM,
Kenwood and Yaesu seem to think so.

ICOM IC-7300 = $979;  Yaesu FT 991A = $1100;  Kenwood TS-590SG = $1200;
Yaesu FT-DX3000 = $ 1300;  Kenwood TS-480HX = $1000

Yes I know these are not in the performance league of the current K3S,
but these are what is on the air, in mass, today.


73

Bob, K4TAX

Very happy with my:

K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3


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[Elecraft] Extra two iron cores in my KPA100 kit?

[TI2/NA7U]

On Assembly, Part II, pg 24, which caused me to sort out the powdered iron
and ferrite cores. I have two T50- iron cores
not mentioned in the instructions or part inventory. All other cores are
present and accounted for.

Sound familiar to anyone?

73,

Casey, TI2/NA7U



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Re: [Elecraft] K4?

[Bert]

Touch screens are unavoidable! Most future electronic devices will have 
have touch screens as I/O interface.


You can wish whatever you want, but if the device/radio is not 
commercially viable, it will never happen,

i.e. it always comes down to dollars and cents!

BTW, the best device you have is between your ears! ;-)

Bert VE3NR



On 3/25/2019 11:51 AM, Doug Person wrote:
Modern screens last a long time and don't suffer nearly as much from 
burn-in. They can also be replaced.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 10:58 PM, mrkgnthr--- via Elecraft wrote:
I keep seeing all the desires for a big color screen.  I have seen 
too many of these color screens that have burn in and failure.  I 
like my nice yellow screen that is always readable, and if damaged 
can be replaced for less than the cost of a new radio.  I like a 
radio that I can pick up and carry without straining my back.    I 
like the separate modules that can be upgraded.  The price was a 
little steep, but every time I turn it on I smile and know it was 
worth it


Mark.  WB7TLK


Sent from my iPad


On Mar 24, 2019, at 20:38, John_N1JM  wrote:

This message has no content.

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[Elecraft] Paddle Recommendation

[Macka Murrah via Elecraft]

Need recommendation on paddle for K3S.  Prefer something small, and I like the 
one on the KX2.

Lee KV5M

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] The case against touch screens

[Don Wilhelm]

Touch screens do not provide support for blind amateur operators. 
Elecraft has always said they will provide support for blind operators.

I just wonder how touchscreens fit into that commitment.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/25/2019 11:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
While those are certainly advantages, there are several disadvantages. Number 1 on my personal hit parade: they aren’t tactile. You have to look at them to operate them. Which means, for you, another distraction. For me, it means extra support (think VoiceOver on iOS, Talkback on Android, VoiceView on the Amazon Fire things). So far, none of the ham radio manufacturers has implemented anything like that, and so touch screen interfaces on a lot of stuff are out of my reach, as it were. Of course, knobs and switches and buttons have the advantage of being able to be manipulated without having to see where they are. 

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

The P3 is far superior to the spectrum display on the 7610? In what way? 
Are you sure you understand how to configure the 7610 display?


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 8:51 AM, K8TE wrote:

I will visit a friend to operate his station again for the CQ WW WPX SSB
Contest this coming weekend.  We use these opportunities to motivate and
train new contesters.  His main rig is an IC-7610.  I will bring my KPA1500
to substitute for his 600 Watt amplifier and tuner since neither provides
the kind of integration the K-Line can.

I greatly prefer operating my K3/P3 over the IC-7610!  The P3 is a far
better panadaptor than the IC-7610's!  The K3's user interface is much
simpler and more effective to operate than the IC-7610's.  BTW, this his the
second IC-7610 in my friend's shack as the first failed 46+ times during
last November's ARRL SS-SSB Contest (we may have missed counting some).
Icom had the radio for several weeks and found no trouble.  I give them
credit for replacing it after the November debacle, no questions asked.  The
replacement didn't fail during the ARRL DX-SSB Contest in February.

The K4, when it comes, I assert, will not be about aesthetics, but
performance and features serious hams want.  If you haven't been paying
attention, a significant number of those hams have replaced their K3S radios
with the Flex 6700.  Their feature set and performance have set a standard
the K4 will need to excede.  I am confident it will.

The K3S is definitely NOT "dated" with regard to performance.  Check out Rob
Sherwood's, NC0B, receiver performance listing:
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.  The K3S is #2 for transceivers with the
upgraded K3 immediately behind it.  Elecraft's challenge is to provide a
significant improvement in performance which depends upon both hardware and
engineering.  That is more difficult than ever before.  The K3 was a
game-changer.  I suspect we won't see a K4 until it too can change the game.

I am amused by some of the Luddite comments regarding touch screens and
computer interfacing.  Yes, the K3S is an awesome stand-alone rig and the
K-Line abely performs without a computer in sight.  However, most of us have
progressed from contesting and DX'ing using paper and pen.  Don't use a
computer if you don't want, but don't knock the many advantages a computer
in the shack provides.  After all, it is 2019.  Read your equipment manuals,
get KE7X's books, and see what else you can do with your Elecraft gear.
Most of all, have fun.

I recall watching the KPA1500 poster go up on the wall at the IDXC in
Visalia.  I look forward to seeing the K4 poster there or in Xenia!  After
all, it's just my kids' inheritance I'm spending and enjoying.

73, Bill, K8TE



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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief.Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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