[Elecraft] K3 Power Output issue

[n5xz]

My K3 s/n 2324 has developed a problem with its output power. It is very
non-linear especially between 12 and say about 50 watts. Output is low until
about there and I do not get full output on some bands, for example I can
only get about 35 watts now on 6m. I have attempted to do the TX Gain
Calibration but is always fails. Elecraft tech support has advised me to try
the "three finger test" to test the KLPA3. I may have access to the PA board
of another K3.wondering if I could just swap them out to determine if that
is where the problem is??

 

Allen R. Brier N5XZ

1515 Windloch Lane

Richmond, TX 77406

713-705-4801

 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Dropoff

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks for this, Jim.  My radio is Serial # 4275.  I don't know if it 
had the gold-plated contacts.  Will call Elecraft and ask.


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
<http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
<http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 11/29/2015 2:55 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

Do you have the mod in that installs the gold plated contacts on the KPA
module?  My sn is 14xx so I had my K3 several years before I started
experiencing the problem. It started with unexplained problems and called
Support.  The fellow listened to my whole story and then told me that was
classic for the contact problem and he would send me the kit.  He also told
me that he knew the problem as soon as I started with my description of the
problem.  I don't think there was a charge but if so, it was insignificant.

73, Jim KG0KP

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Pete
Smith N4ZR
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 11:24 AM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Dropoff

Well, it happened again. My K3 is now only putting out 35 watts on 80,
30 watts on 40, 49 watts on 20, 84 on 15 and 100 on 10M, although the power
control reads 100 watts on all bands and the SWR is very low, so it is not a
question of foldback due to mismatch.  Once before, when it did this,
powering the radio off and back on restored proper operation, but not now.
Any suggestions?



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[Elecraft] K3 Power Output Dropoff

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Well, it happened again. My K3 is now only putting out 35 watts on 80, 
30 watts on 40, 49 watts on 20, 84 on 15 and 100 on 10M, although the 
power control reads 100 watts on all bands and the SWR is very low, so 
it is not a question of foldback due to mismatch.  Once before, when it 
did this, powering the radio off and back on restored proper operation, 
but not now.  Any suggestions?


--

73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

In the Notes Here: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm

"
Those loading rev. 5.10 (or later) for the first time must re-do the 50-Watt 
gain calibration step on all bands.Once this has been done, there is no need to 
do it when loading future firmware releases.

"  From: David Inger 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 6:53 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update
   
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I am about to order the new 
synth board.  When I restarted the radio after the upload, the following 
problem occurred:

When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows about 8 watts of power.  
If I turn the power control up, the display defaults back to 8 watts.  
In the config menu I have the tune power set to 20 watts.

I reloaded the firmware to make sure there wasn't a glitch in the 
loading.  The same problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to change the TX ALC (in the 
config menu) to "OFF"  When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that I do not have a 
component failure problem.

Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have 
inadvertently changed?

73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issues

[Phil Wheeler]

You weren't the first to miss it, David -- and you 
won't be the last!


Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 4:10 PM, David Inger wrote:

Wow,  talk about "instant messaging!"  I received a number of responses
pointing out the fact that I need to do the K3 power calibration after
installation 5.10.  I am so bad for not reading the fine print.
  
Thanks folks for all your help!
  
73 de K6SBA

David


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issues

[David Inger]

Wow,  talk about "instant messaging!"  I received a number of responses
pointing out the fact that I need to do the K3 power calibration after
installation 5.10.  I am so bad for not reading the fine print.
 
Thanks folks for all your help!
 
73 de K6SBA
David
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have
> inadvertently changed?

Yes, the instructions for 5.10 and later state that the TX CAL must be
performed after loading 5.10, 5.12 or 5.13 (and presumably later).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-02-28 6:53 PM, David Inger wrote:

I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I am about to order the new
synth board.  When I restarted the radio after the upload, the following
problem occurred:

When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows about 8 watts of power. If
I turn the power control up, the display defaults back to 8 watts. In
the config menu I have the tune power set to 20 watts.

I reloaded the firmware to make sure there wasn't a glitch in the
loading.  The same problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to change the TX ALC (in the
config menu) to "OFF"  When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that I do not have a
component failure problem.

Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have
inadvertently changed?

73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Phil Wheeler]

Sorry. See the F/W 5.10 documentation :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 3:53 PM, David Inger wrote:
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I 
am about to order the new synth board.  When I 
restarted the radio after the upload, the 
following problem occurred:


When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows 
about 8 watts of power.  If I turn the power 
control up, the display defaults back to 8 
watts.  In the config menu I have the tune power 
set to 20 watts.


I reloaded the firmware to make sure there 
wasn't a glitch in the loading.  The same 
problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to 
change the TX ALC (in the config menu) to "OFF"  
When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that 
I do not have a component failure problem.


Has anyone experienced this or know of any 
settings which I may have inadvertently changed?


73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[Phil Wheeler]

You need to re-do the power calibration using the 
K3 Utility. See the document for the Synth board.


Phil W7OX

On 2/28/15 3:53 PM, David Inger wrote:
I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I 
am about to order the new synth board.  When I 
restarted the radio after the upload, the 
following problem occurred:


When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows 
about 8 watts of power.  If I turn the power 
control up, the display defaults back to 8 
watts.  In the config menu I have the tune power 
set to 20 watts.


I reloaded the firmware to make sure there 
wasn't a glitch in the loading.  The same 
problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to 
change the TX ALC (in the config menu) to "OFF"  
When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that 
I do not have a component failure problem.


Has anyone experienced this or know of any 
settings which I may have inadvertently changed?


73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA


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[Elecraft] K3 Power Output Issue after Firmware Update

[David Inger]

I just updated the K3 firmware to 5.10 since I am about to order the new 
synth board.  When I restarted the radio after the upload, the following 
problem occurred:


When I press the TUNE button, the radio shows about 8 watts of power.  
If I turn the power control up, the display defaults back to 8 watts.  
In the config menu I have the tune power set to 20 watts.


I reloaded the firmware to make sure there wasn't a glitch in the 
loading.  The same problem still occurs.
The only other troubleshooting I did was to change the TX ALC (in the 
config menu) to "OFF"  When I tune up with the TX ALC off, I can get 
full power out from the radio,  so I assume that I do not have a 
component failure problem.


Has anyone experienced this or know of any settings which I may have 
inadvertently changed?


73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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[Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Arliss]

Here's follow-up on the power instability problem I have been 
experiencing with one of my K3s:


Although I already had the latest firmware loaded in the K3, I 
reloaded the firmware.  I also ran the VCO MD calibration and 
checked the 3 mounting screws on the bottom of the K3, as someone 
had suggested.  I also ran the parameter initialization.


After all of the above, I again ran the TX gain calibration and 
once again it failed (for both low/high power).  I have contacted 
Elecraft support and am waiting to hear from them.


73,  Arliss
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Lee Trout]

I've mentioned this before, but several seemingly inexplicable problems I
have had with my K3 have been solved by simply doing a Parameter
Initialization (see manual.)  Just be sure to save your configuration
first.  May not help, but doesn't take long so always worth a try.  One
caveat, that Don Wilhelm pointed out to me:

*Ideally, that saved configuration file should be one that was obtained
before the problem came up. If a configuration file is generated right
before the EEINIT [**Parameter Initialization], the same problem may be
re-loaded afterwards.

73, Lee (K9CM)


*
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Walter Underwood]

Something similar happened with my KX3. Support told me to reset and reload all 
the firmware, and it worked fine after that.

I recommend that you get advice from Elecraft. Their advice worked for me.

wunder
K6WRU

On Mar 13, 2013, at 8:12 PM, Arliss wrote:

> Running the low and high power TX gain calibration via the K3 Utility gave 
> the following result:
> 
> "TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to a 
> consistent value.  5W calibration failed."
> 
> "TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to a 
> consistent value.  50 W calibration failed."
> 
> The low power calibration failed on 40 meters and stopped there.  The 50 W 
> calibration failed on 160 meters and stopped there.
> 
> The radio also gave an error message: ERR TXG (Transmit gain constant out of 
> range).
> 
> 73,  Arliss
> 
> 
> 
> Arliss,
> 
> I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if that 
> improves the situation.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
> >I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output >from my K3/100. 
> > No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been >a few days), so I thought 
> >I'd try here.
> >
> > The problem is that at relatively low power output levels
> >(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not >remain constant.  
> > If I engage TUNE, the power will vary >plus/minus 3 or 4 watts, then jump 
> >up briefly by as much as 10 >watts or more before resuming smaller 
> >excursions.  Although the >power variations are brief, they cause the grid 
> >protection >circuit in the amp to trip.  This behavior seems to be 
> >>independent of mode and frequency.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Andy Wood]

Hi Arliss,

I recently had a similar problem with my K3. I contact Elecraft and received
this response from Gary:

-
See if it will produce 12w on 160-10m, and at least 8w on 6m, in Tune, with
the KPA3 menu set to Bypass. The VFO should be near the middle of the band.

Check the 3 LPA mounting screws on the bottom panel are all tight too.

Be sure it passes VCO MD CAL too, and the ADC REF menu is set as shown
below:
-

In my case, running VCO MD CAL cured it. I also asked Gary why this value
may have been corrupted - here is his response:
"It does change sometimes with age or changes in temp, humidity, or
altitude. Not a bad idea to redo VCO MD CAL from time to time."

Andy  VK4KY



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Don Wilhelm]

Arliss,

If you do not have the latest firmware loaded along with the latest K3 
Utility, please load the latest and try again.  If it continues to fail, 
contact k3supp...@elecraft.com.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 11:12 PM, Arliss wrote:
Running the low and high power TX gain calibration via the K3 Utility 
gave the following result:


"TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to 
a consistent value.  5W calibration failed."


"TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not converge to 
a consistent value.  50 W calibration failed."


The low power calibration failed on 40 meters and stopped there.  The 
50 W calibration failed on 160 meters and stopped there.


The radio also gave an error message: ERR TXG (Transmit gain constant 
out of range).


73,  Arliss



Arliss,

I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if 
that improves the situation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
>I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output >from my 
K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been >a few days), 
so I thought I'd try here.

>
> The problem is that at relatively low power output levels
>(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not >remain 
constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary >plus/minus 3 or 4 
watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 >watts or more before 
resuming smaller excursions.  Although the >power variations are 
brief, they cause the grid protection >circuit in the amp to trip.  
This behavior seems to be >independent of mode and frequency.

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[Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Arliss]

Running the low and high power TX gain calibration via the K3 
Utility gave the following result:


"TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not 
converge to a consistent value.  5W calibration failed."


"TX Gain calibration failed because power reading did not 
converge to a consistent value.  50 W calibration failed."


The low power calibration failed on 40 meters and stopped there. 
 The 50 W calibration failed on 160 meters and stopped there.


The radio also gave an error message: ERR TXG (Transmit gain 
constant out of range).


73,  Arliss



Arliss,

I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and 
see if that improves the situation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
>I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output 
>from my K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been 
>a few days), so I thought I'd try here.

>
> The problem is that at relatively low power output levels
>(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not 
>remain constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary 
>plus/minus 3 or 4 watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 
>watts or more before resuming smaller excursions.  Although the 
>power variations are brief, they cause the grid protection 
>circuit in the amp to trip.  This behavior seems to be 
>independent of mode and frequency.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Don Wilhelm]

Arliss,

I would suggest that you run the Transmit Gain Calibration and see if 
that improves the situation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2013 9:10 PM, Arliss wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output from my 
K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been a few days), 
so I thought I'd try here.


The problem is that at relatively low power output levels 
(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not remain 
constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary plus/minus 3 or 4 
watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 watts or more before 
resuming smaller excursions.  Although the power variations are brief, 
they cause the grid protection circuit in the amp to trip.  This 
behavior seems to be independent of mode and frequency.




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[Elecraft] K3 power output instability

[Arliss]

I'm experiencing a problem with instability in power output from 
my K3/100.  No word back from Elecraft yet (it's only been a few 
days), so I thought I'd try here.


The problem is that at relatively low power output levels 
(approximately 10 to 40 watts), the power output does not remain 
constant.   If I engage TUNE, the power will vary plus/minus 3 or 
4 watts, then jump up briefly by as much as 10 watts or more 
before resuming smaller excursions.  Although the power 
variations are brief, they cause the grid protection circuit in 
the amp to trip.  This behavior seems to be independent of mode 
and frequency.


The above problem persists with different feedlines and occurs 
with the amp out of line and transmitting into a dummy load as 
well.  At higher levels of output, the power level is stable. The 
radio is of relatively recent manufacture (S/N 5839) and I have 
the latest downloads installed.  I have another K3 that does not 
exhibit this problem.


Any ideas?

Thanks & 73,

Arliss   W7XU
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems (partially fixed!)

[Mark n2qt]

As an update, (for all those following this thread with bated breath)

It looks like the problem of being unable to get full power out on the bands
below 17M, and the inability to do a TXGain calibration, was due to some
issue with the configuration of the ATU.  I set ATU to not installed and 
then
back to installed and power output came back up.  In addition when the
ATU is enabled and used to tune the 50 ohm load, the SWR after tuning
is 1:1.  (those who are following this will remember that originally tuning
made the SWR worse).  My idea of a loose connection appears to be wrong.

Now, the remaining problem is that the Current Display does not indicate the
current actually drawn.  The display 'saturates' somewhere around 3 amps or
so. (It appears to read sensibly up to that level, and then flattens out as 
power
is turned up).

I'll ask Elecraft Tech support for guidance on this one

I'm hoping to use the rig in the upcoming CQWW, so if there anything amiss,
it's sure to show up then.

Mark n2qt


-Original Message- 
From: Ian White GM3SEK
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:54 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for
>the antenna connectors.
>
>At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a
>long screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long
>screw. The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path
>to the antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.
>
>To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that
>goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff
>with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have
>tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the
>screw again.


That slender pillar is the main return path for an ampere or more of RF
current flowing between the KAT3 board and the rear panel sockets. As
someone whose design instincts were developed at VHF, where all RF
ground paths must be short, broad and direct, I didn't feel comfortable
about that corner of the K3.

Yes, we know that "it works" and "it's good enough for HF". But in these
days of compulsory EMC testing and microscopically detailed product
reviews, even HF designers are coming to realise that bending the rules
for good RF grounding will eat into the margins of performance, spurious
signal rejection and stability.

RF grounding of the KAT3 board is also far too dependent on the
tightness of the screws at each end of the pillar and the cleanness of
all the contact surfaces.

That ground return path can be much improved by connecting the mounting
screw of J1 directly to the corner of the KAT3 board, using two solder
tags that are overlapped and soldered directly together. My K3 doesn't
necessarily work any better, but it does satisfy the instincts of an old
VHF hound  :-)


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Ian White GM3SEK]

Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for 
>the antenna connectors.
>
>At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a 
>long screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long 
>screw. The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path 
>to the antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.
>
>To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that 
>goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff 
>with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have 
>tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the 
>screw again.


That slender pillar is the main return path for an ampere or more of RF 
current flowing between the KAT3 board and the rear panel sockets. As 
someone whose design instincts were developed at VHF, where all RF 
ground paths must be short, broad and direct, I didn't feel comfortable 
about that corner of the K3.

Yes, we know that "it works" and "it's good enough for HF". But in these 
days of compulsory EMC testing and microscopically detailed product 
reviews, even HF designers are coming to realise that bending the rules 
for good RF grounding will eat into the margins of performance, spurious 
signal rejection and stability.

RF grounding of the KAT3 board is also far too dependent on the 
tightness of the screws at each end of the pillar and the cleanness of 
all the contact surfaces.

That ground return path can be much improved by connecting the mounting 
screw of J1 directly to the corner of the KAT3 board, using two solder 
tags that are overlapped and soldered directly together. My K3 doesn't 
necessarily work any better, but it does satisfy the instincts of an old 
VHF hound  :-)


-- 

73 from Ian GM3SEK
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Don Wilhelm]

Mark,

There is one possibility of a loose connection in the ground path for 
the antenna connectors.

At the upper right-rear corner of the K3 there is a 2D connector, a long 
screw and a standoff is fastened to the threads of that long screw.
The tightness of that standoff is important to the ground path to the 
antenna connectors.  See page 22 of the K3 Assembly manual.

To tighten the standoff, you will have to first loosen the screw that 
goes into the inside end of that standoff, then tighten the standoff 
with pliers (or better yet, a 3/16 inch wrench).  Once you have 
tightened the standoff against the 2D connector, you can tighten the 
screw again.
I believe recent K3s are built with an enlarged hole in the 2D connector 
so the threads of the screw are not held captive by both the standoff 
and 2D connector.
On 9/22/2012 5:14 PM, Mark n2qt wrote:
> thanks for the suggestion John.  I tried it but it didn't allow calibration
> to occur.
> However I noticed that after the ATU tuned the 50 ohm load the rig showed
> high SWR (4.1:1 or so) when I manually keyed it.  Also on the bands the
> power output it good, the Current drawn is shown as 2.3 Amps, which would
> be pretty spectacular.  I did confirm the ~100W output power on a W2
> wattmeter.
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Mark n2qt]

thanks for the suggestion John.  I tried it but it didn't allow calibration 
to occur.
However I noticed that after the ATU tuned the 50 ohm load the rig showed
high SWR (4.1:1 or so) when I manually keyed it.  Also on the bands the
power output it good, the Current drawn is shown as 2.3 Amps, which would
be pretty spectacular.  I did confirm the ~100W output power on a W2 
wattmeter.

So something is definitely up

Mark n2qt

-Original Message- 
From: Dr John Farmer
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 2:01 PM
To: Mark n2qt
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

Hi Mark,

Just read your posting.

I had some quirky things happen with my K3 with the tuner in Bypass mode. I 
needed to "set" the bypass LC settings in the tuner to remedy them.

Try the following:
Switch back to ANT 1.
Attach 50 ohm dummy load to ANT 1.
Engage the ATU
Tune the ATU in to the dummy load on every band sequentially from 160 to 6m
Put ATU back into bypass mode and then retry the tx gain calibration 
routine.

Hope that helps.

73
John
VK7JB

Sent from my iPhone

On 23/09/2012, at 3:44, "Mark n2qt"  wrote:

> On a new to me K3, I am having problems with power output below 15M.   For
> example
> the power output on 80 maxed out at 30 watts.  (good swr etc., no alarms,
> voltage input
> is good etc.).
>
> So figured it was a TX gain issue so set up recalibrate it.  The 5 W
> calibration goes fine
> on 160, but fails on 80 with the following dialog
>
> Starting 5 watt calibration
> Calibrating at 1.900 MHz
> Calibrating at 3.750 MHz
> SWR 3.7-1 is too high for calibration
> Verify that a dummy load is attached to "AN2;"
>
> (and yes the dummy load was connected to AN2,  I had previously tried it 
> on
> AN1 with the
> same results.)
>
> If I then transmit manually, the SWR indicated is 1:1 and I can adjust 
> power
> up to the same
> 30W indicated previously.
>
> So, the TX calibrate complains of high SWR, but manually cannot replicate
> it.
>
> Any ideas (really, really) welcome.
>
> Unit does have the AntTuner which is set to bypass (and it looks like the
> calibrate routine also
> does this.)
>
> Mark n2qt
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Mark n2qt]

one more bit of info.

If I use the tuner into 50 ohms it finds a match but when I
manually transmit the swr through the tuner is high,
for example 4.4:1 on 40.  Bypassing the tuner gives the
1:1 expected with the dummy load, although at 30 some
watts.

I really think there is a floating cable ground somewhere
in there.

Mark n2qt

-Original Message- 
From: Mark n2qt
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 1:44 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 power output problems

On a new to me K3, I am having problems with power output below 15M.   For
example
the power output on 80 maxed out at 30 watts.  (good swr etc., no alarms,
voltage input
is good etc.).

So figured it was a TX gain issue so set up recalibrate it.  The 5 W
calibration goes fine
on 160, but fails on 80 with the following dialog

Starting 5 watt calibration
Calibrating at 1.900 MHz
Calibrating at 3.750 MHz
SWR 3.7-1 is too high for calibration
Verify that a dummy load is attached to "AN2;"

(and yes the dummy load was connected to AN2,  I had previously tried it on
AN1 with the
same results.)

If I then transmit manually, the SWR indicated is 1:1 and I can adjust power
up to the same
30W indicated previously.

So, the TX calibrate complains of high SWR, but manually cannot replicate
it.

Any ideas (really, really) welcome.

Unit does have the AntTuner which is set to bypass (and it looks like the
calibrate routine also
does this.)

Mark n2qt


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[Elecraft] K3 power output problems

[Mark n2qt]

On a new to me K3, I am having problems with power output below 15M.   For 
example
the power output on 80 maxed out at 30 watts.  (good swr etc., no alarms, 
voltage input
is good etc.).

So figured it was a TX gain issue so set up recalibrate it.  The 5 W 
calibration goes fine
on 160, but fails on 80 with the following dialog

Starting 5 watt calibration
Calibrating at 1.900 MHz
Calibrating at 3.750 MHz
SWR 3.7-1 is too high for calibration
Verify that a dummy load is attached to "AN2;"

(and yes the dummy load was connected to AN2,  I had previously tried it on 
AN1 with the
same results.)

If I then transmit manually, the SWR indicated is 1:1 and I can adjust power 
up to the same
30W indicated previously.

So, the TX calibrate complains of high SWR, but manually cannot replicate 
it.

Any ideas (really, really) welcome.

Unit does have the AntTuner which is set to bypass (and it looks like the 
calibrate routine also
does this.)

Mark n2qt
 

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power output

[Mike Clarke]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply.  I've just done some more tests here into a
dummy load. 

Set for 100W output, the K3's meter  shows me exactly that on CW.
On SSB I can get as much as two extra bars above the 100W mark.
If I turn compression off this happens considerably less often,
but the meter will still bounce up there occasionally.

Having perused the manual a bit more, there is a note on the
bottom of page 28 which suggests that voice power and CW power
are not the same; presumably the power the user requests is
considered in 'CW' terms, even in voice modes; in which case
fiddling with CONFIG:TXG VCE should sort things out.

So in summary it seems I led myself astray by imagining that
there is more feedback from the meter to the PA than is, in fact,
the case; hence wondering why the K3 was telling me it was giving
me 120W when I asked for 100.

73,

-- 
Mike, M0PRL


On 18/Jan 10:18, Mike Rodgers wrote:

> My k3/10 puts out slightly more. Sometimes 9 or 9.5 watts equals 10. 
> Since that drives the 100w pa I would expect a greater amount at 100w. 
> I just figured it had to do with compression on ssb. Try it with zero 
> compression. Also advise how much more it's putting out. 
> 
> 73
> Mike R
> 
> Sent from my spy ring
> 
> Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
> HF & Echolink
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[Elecraft] [K3] power output

[Mike Rodgers]

My k3/10 puts out slightly more. Sometimes 9 or 9.5 watts equals 10. 
Since that drives the 100w pa I would expect a greater amount at 100w. 
I just figured it had to do with compression on ssb. Try it with zero 
compression. Also advise how much more it's putting out. 

73
Mike R

Sent from my spy ring

Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
HF & Echolink
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output

[Mike Clarke]

That thought did occur to me, but then if the PA has a more
accurate idea of power than the meter that is somehow independant
of the meter's calibration, why is the meter not simply
calibrated to the PA's more accurate idea of its own output?

My (possibly incorrect!) assumption was that the power measured
at the meter was fed back to the PA to achieve the requested
output.

-- 
Mike, M0PRL

On 18/Jan 00:09, dro...@necg.de wrote:

> Mike,
> maybe the calibration is wrong?
> 
> 73, Olli - (ON/) DH8BQA
> 
> Mike Clarke  hat am 17. Januar 2012 um 23:40 
> geschrieben:
> 
> > Ok folks, basic question time...
> >
> > Under what circumstances would the K3's power meter show me
> > putting out more power than I have requested??? SSB if it makes
> > any difference...
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > --
> > Mike, M0PRL
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output

[dro...@necg.de]

Mike,
 
maybe the calibration is wrong?
 
73, Olli - (ON/) DH8BQA
 
 



Mike Clarke  hat am 17. Januar 2012 um 23:40 geschrieben:

> Ok folks, basic question time...
>
> Under what circumstances would the K3's power meter show me
> putting out more power than I have requested?  SSB if it makes
> any difference...
>
> 73,
>
> --
> Mike, M0PRL
>
>
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[Elecraft] K3 power output

[Mike Clarke]

Ok folks, basic question time...

Under what circumstances would the K3's power meter show me
putting out more power than I have requested?  SSB if it makes
any difference...

73,

-- 
Mike, M0PRL


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Arthur Nienhouse]

Joe
Tuner works just fine everything is just like a 100 / 200 watt Yaesu is 
driving the VL-1000 my Quadra
is over ten years old and was built when Yaesu had the company it is the 
second version
I want to say of the original released.

I use the K3 [TUNE] button for tuning the tuner and band changing, I do 
not change the power level.
  I put the amp out put into a dummy load then use the [F-set] button  
and  [TUNE] on the K3
the amp will change bands using this method with anything over 50 watts 
or so. One of these
days I will do up a band data cable for the band selection of the 
Quadra. The Quadra has worked
flawless from day one.The switching power supply has been on all these 
years with out a hitch. I hear the
maintenance feature exercising the relays in the middle of the night 
regularly.

Regards
Art
ka9zap

On 4/2/2010 6:08 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> Art,
>
>
>> My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the
>> input attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100
>> watts the amp and the K3  has been doing just fine since the
>> born on date June 13 09, so I have forgotten about this issue
>> all together.
>>  
> Do you have enough drive to operate the tuner with the attenuator
> on or have you tried it in that configuration?
>
> I have a pair of Quadras waiting to be mated with my pair of K3s
> once I get done with some antenna work and shack cleaning.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arthur
>> Nienhouse
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 6:05 PM
>> To: Elecraft post
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
>>
>>
>> I have a similar issue  with my K3 VL-1000 combination the
>> amp would key
>> up full power then fold back slowly until it was running
>> about 1/2 output. No amount of reducing the mic or power
>> settings changed this behavior
>> and still have the right output. Even setting drive for lower
>> amp output it still marched backwards something is triggering
>> a fold back when it
>> is not required to. I do not see any spike on key up so I
>> don't think it
>> is a
>> key up timing issue.
>>
>> My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the input
>> attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100
>> watts the amp
>> and the K3  has been doing just fine since the born on date
>> June 13 09,
>> so I have forgotten about this issue all together.
>> I don't use the VL-1000 all the time but when I do it works seamless
>> with no ALC related problems at all.
>>
>> My K3 serial #3142 has the latest up date I can't remember if
>> this issue
>> was there from the first time I used the amp with the ALC
>> connected or if it was something that started with a later
>> update in firmware, I think
>> it was ok at first because I was surprised when the issue
>> first showed up.
>>
>> Regards
>> Art
>> ka9zap
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/2010 2:36 PM, Bruce McLaughlin wrote:
>>  
>>> Don:
>>>
>>> For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ,
>>>
>> the other
>>  
>>> day and he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop
>>>
>> in power
>>  
>>> output from the K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his
>>>
>> amplifier.
>>  
>>> He was using the latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that
>>> problem before.  I had downloaded version 3.79 but have held off
>>> installing it until we see whether there is in fact a
>>>
>> problem.  I am
>>  
>>> using version 3.77 and the output is quite stable as it has
>>>
>> been all
>>  
>>> along.  I think I should mention I have seen one or two other
>>> references regarding similar problems from other posting as well.
>>> Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
>>> mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants
>>> further investigation.
>>>
>>> Bruce-W8FU
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
>>> To: Juha - oh6os
>>> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power ou

Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Arthur Nienhouse]

I have a similar issue  with my K3 VL-1000 combination the amp would key 
up full power then fold back slowly until it was running about 1/2 output.
No amount of reducing the mic or power settings changed this behavior 
and still have the right output. Even setting drive for lower amp output
it still marched backwards something is triggering a fold back when it 
is not required to. I do not see any spike on key up so I don't think it 
is a
key up timing issue.

My work around is to not connect the radios ALC then engage the input 
attenuator on the amp that limits the drive input to 100 watts the amp 
and the K3  has been doing just fine since the born on date June 13 09, 
so I have forgotten about this issue all together.
I don't use the VL-1000 all the time but when I do it works seamless 
with no ALC related problems at all.

My K3 serial #3142 has the latest up date I can't remember if this issue 
was there from the first time I used the amp with the ALC connected or if
it was something that started with a later update in firmware, I think 
it was ok at first because I was surprised when the issue first showed up.

Regards
Art
ka9zap


On 4/2/2010 2:36 PM, Bruce McLaughlin wrote:
> Don:
>
> For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ, the other day and
> he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop in power output from the
> K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his amplifier.  He was using the
> latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that problem before.  I had
> downloaded version 3.79 but have held off installing it until we see whether
> there is in fact a problem.  I am using version 3.77 and the output is quite
> stable as it has been all along.  I think I should mention I have seen one
> or two other references regarding similar problems from other posting as
> well.  Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
> mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants further
> investigation.
>
> Bruce-W8FU
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
> To: Juha - oh6os
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
>
> Juha,
>
> Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however
> changing bands does reset it.
>
> As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power
> control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain
> calibration, so yes they are related.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Juha - oh6os wrote:
>
>> Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.
>>
>> juha - oh6os
>>
>>
>>
>>  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Bruce McLaughlin]

Don:

For what it may be worth, I was in contact with Don, N4ZZ, the other day and
he was complaining about a momentary, periodic drop in power output from the
K-3 of approximately 50% while driving his amplifier.  He was using the
latest firmware version 3.79.  He had not had that problem before.  I had
downloaded version 3.79 but have held off installing it until we see whether
there is in fact a problem.  I am using version 3.77 and the output is quite
stable as it has been all along.  I think I should mention I have seen one
or two other references regarding similar problems from other posting as
well.  Although Don's problem is not exactly the same as Tom's it does
mention unstable power output on sideband.  Perhaps this warrants further
investigation.

Bruce-W8FU

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:34 AM
To: Juha - oh6os
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

Juha,

Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however 
changing bands does reset it.

As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power 
control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain 
calibration, so yes they are related.

73,
Don W3FPR

Juha - oh6os wrote:
> Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.
>
> juha - oh6os
>
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Ruben Navarro Huedo]

I press the TUNE button and this solves the problem.
Will it be solved with a firmware update?

2010/4/1 -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- 

>
> Well, what I do is when I change frequencies, I go to cw and key it until
> the
> power comes way up. Yes, it is a pain. Some may say you can't see a
> difference on the s-meter but if you use an amp with tubes, that "little
> extra" that takes time to come up makes a difference. This could be
> tweaked.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4835445.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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-- 
Rubén Navarro Huedo
http://www.palotes.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-]

Well, what I do is when I change frequencies, I go to cw and key it until the
power comes way up. Yes, it is a pain. Some may say you can't see a
difference on the s-meter but if you use an amp with tubes, that "little
extra" that takes time to come up makes a difference. This could be tweaked. 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4835445.html
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Don Wilhelm]

Knut,

That is not possible.  If it were done, there would be a large variation 
in output power from band to band - the gain of the transmit chain is 
not constant from band to band.

73,
Don W3FPR


ab2tc wrote:
> I will do the gain calibration again when I get home. I have done this
> several times in the past without improvement, but not terribly recently.
> Maybe there is a relatively recent firmware improvement in this area? Would
> it be possible to change the firmware to not reset the ALC when doing a band
> change without transmitting on the other band? I have a habit of using the
> A/B button to take a quick peek on 10m, then coming back if there is nothing
> there.
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
>   
>> 
>>> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!
>>>   
>> Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 
>>
>> If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
>> transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
>> do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
>> calibrated I see less than .5dB "undershoot" (more 
>> than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>
>   
> 
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2779 - Release Date: 03/30/10 
> 02:32:00
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[ab2tc]

I will do the gain calibration again when I get home. I have done this
several times in the past without improvement, but not terribly recently.
Maybe there is a relatively recent firmware improvement in this area? Would
it be possible to change the firmware to not reset the ALC when doing a band
change without transmitting on the other band? I have a habit of using the
A/B button to take a quick peek on 10m, then coming back if there is nothing
there.

AB2TC - Knut


Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> 
> 
>> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!
> 
> Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 
> 
> If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
> transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
> do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
> calibrated I see less than .5dB "undershoot" (more 
> than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Don Wilhelm]

Juha,

Tuning within any band will not reset the power output controls, however 
changing bands does reset it.

As Joe has mentioned, do the power calibration, it will help.  The power 
control mechanism does use the data obtained from the TX gain 
calibration, so yes they are related.

73,
Don W3FPR

Juha - oh6os wrote:
> Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.
>
> juha - oh6os
>
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Juha - oh6os]

Not so good behavior on the contest, where is alltime tuning.

juha - oh6os


ab2tc wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3
> users have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
> "conservatively" for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
> very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it
> stays there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just
> turning the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant
> nonetheless. If I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY,
> I switch mode to TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant
> full SSB peak power.
> 
> AB2TC - Knut
> 
> 
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
>>> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
>>> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
>>> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
>> 
>> Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
>> wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
>> TXG VCE.  
>> 
>> 73, 
>> 
>>... Joe, W4TV 
>>  
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue!

Bull ... I have seen it and can recreate it at will. 

If the wattmeter is not properly calibrated and the 
transmit gains are off, the bower setting routines 
do not act correctly.  With the transmitter properly 
calibrated I see less than .5dB "undershoot" (more 
than 95 W when commanded for 100W) when changing bands. 

If I intentionally miscalibrate the wattmeter (as I 
did by accident when building the unit) and then do 
the transmit gain calibration with an  inaccurate 
wattmeter, the radio will display a 2 to 3 dB undershoot 
(50 to 60 watts) when first changing bands.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of ab2tc
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 7:00 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge 
> number of K3 users have complained about this propensity of 
> the SSB power to aim "conservatively" for 50-80% of the 
> requested peak power and then slowly, very slowly climbing up 
> to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays there 
> until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just 
> turning the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an 
> irritant nonetheless. If I am in a big rush to have full 
> power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to TX data FSK D, do 
> a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak power.
> 
> AB2TC - Knut
> 
> 
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice
> >> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
> >> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
> >> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
> > 
> > Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3
> > wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
> > TXG VCE.  
> > 
> > 73,
> > 
> >... Joe, W4TV
> >  
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-power-output-on-SSB-tp4818879p4821485.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Fred Jensen]

Brendan Minish wrote:
> An undershoot of ~ 20% for the first few seconds of transmission on a
> new frequency might be an irritant but an overshoot or aggressive fast
> acting ALC leads to spatter on peaks, this is very common issue on the
> bands today 
> An undershoot of  ~20% on peaks (it's less on my K3) is negligible in
> terms of the receiving end signal strength and a small price to pay for
> a cleaner transmitted signal.

Folks, maybe I am missing so much here, but 20% undershoot at 100W 
"requested" is 20W.  The difference between 80W and 100W is 0.96910 dB, 
assuming my HP48GX can still do logs after all these years.

I think Brendan has it right, a second or two of some power between 80 
and 100W really is negligible.  On SSB [not often my mode], I step on 
the switch under the desk and talk ... works every time ... as long as I 
remember -- "Step, then talk."

Now, pretending that I actually know what I'm about to say ... I think 
the power control in the K3 [and K2] is a big negative feedback loop 
called ALC by some.  How would it know where to stabilize to a requested 
power before power, any power, actually happened?

On a different subject, I'd pay money for a published decision tree for 
firmware updates and whether or not I need to install them.  Often -- 
OK, always -- this occurs just before the contest.  Many affect things 
that don't affect me, others can be another story.

73,

Fred K6DGW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Tom W8JI]

> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge 
> number of K3 users
> have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to 
> aim
> "conservatively" for 50-80% of the requested peak power 
> and then slowly,
> very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once 
> reaching 100% it stays

I'm having a weird SSB problem now. I just updated firmware 
to  MCU 03.79, FPF 01.08, and DSP to 02.54

On 20M LSB it behaves pretty much OK, but now on USB it 
barely makes any average power and has some weird peaks. 
It's almost like it has severe gain expansion.

I reloaded the updates (but did not download fresh files) 
and I have the same thing.

It was working OK with my older firmware. Anyone have any 
ideas??


Tom 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Brendan Minish]

An undershoot of ~ 20% for the first few seconds of transmission on a
new frequency might be an irritant but an overshoot or aggressive fast
acting ALC leads to spatter on peaks, this is very common issue on the
bands today 
An undershoot of  ~20% on peaks (it's less on my K3) is negligible in
terms of the receiving end signal strength and a small price to pay for
a cleaner transmitted signal.

73
Brendan EI6IZ


On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 14:59 -0800, ab2tc wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3 users
> have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
> "conservatively" for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
> very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays
> there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just turning
> the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant nonetheless. If
> I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to
> TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak
> power.
> 
> AB2TC - Knut
> 
> 
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
> >> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
> >> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
> >> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
> > 
> > Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
> > wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
> > TXG VCE.  
> > 
> > 73, 
> > 
> >... Joe, W4TV 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> 

-- 
73
Brendan EI6IZ 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[ab2tc]

Hi,

No, please, this is not a power calibration issue! A huge number of K3 users
have complained about this propensity of the SSB power to aim
"conservatively" for 50-80% of the requested peak power and then slowly,
very slowly climbing up to the requested power. Once reaching 100% it stays
there until you perform some kind of QSY operation other than just turning
the wheel. It is not a huge irritant to me, but an irritant nonetheless. If
I am in a big rush to have full power on SSB after a QSY, I switch mode to
TX data FSK D, do a quick squirt of TX and I have instant full SSB peak
power.

AB2TC - Knut


Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
>> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
>> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
>> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
> 
> Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
> wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
> TXG VCE.  
> 
> 73, 
> 
>... Joe, W4TV 
>  
> 
> 

-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.

Sounds like a power calibration issue.  Double check the K3 
wattmeter calibration, the amplifier gain calibrations and 
TXG VCE.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Juha Kasari
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:31 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice 
> that last watts going up very slowly. Without linear I tested 
> and sometimes first 80 watts out normally but from 80 to 100 
> watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.
> 
> When I am using my linear (Titan, has peak power meter by 
> led) last one or two leds don't light on ssb, on cw they do 
> with the same driving power.
> 
> I tried TXG VCE, but not effect.
> 
> It is like ALC over react to voice peak.
> 
> Is that normal behavior?
> 
> 73 de juha - oh6os K3 #2100 
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[Elecraft] K3 power output on SSB

[Juha Kasari]

Hello,

When I whistle to mic and tune my linear amplifier, I notice that last watts
going up very slowly. Without linear I tested and sometimes first 80 watts
out normally but from 80 to 100 watts it takes about 2-3 seconds.

When I am using my linear (Titan, has peak power meter by led) last one or
two leds don't light on ssb, on cw they do with the same driving power.

I tried TXG VCE, but not effect.

It is like ALC over react to voice peak.

Is that normal behavior?

73 de juha - oh6os K3 #2100
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band

[Duncan Carter]

A few days ago, I repaired my K3 which had this problem as it came from 
the factory.  After following diagnostic instructions from Elecraft, 
what I found was that the band pass filter at the level that includes 
the drive to the transverter output was mis-tuned.
The following is part of my report my report to Wayne and to Elecraft 
support.  C179 and C183 are trimmer capacitors for the band pass filter 
at the level before the transceiver output.  If you don't have the 
optional transceiver output accessory, this method becomes more difficult.

"C179 was peaked, I assume properly.

C183 was stuck and didn't want to turn with the alignment tool.  I used 
a jeweler's screwdriver that didn't have an insulated sheath and 
"un-stuck" C183.  Next, I peaked C183.  At 10.149, a cw tone is 2.3 
divisions peak on the scope; at 10.101, the cw tone is 2.1 divisions.  
Reverting to normal HF mode, 110 watts output is reached with no 
problem.  The other bands seem unchanged with normal full output, etc. "

The diagnostic process that I followed requires that you have something 
to measure the drive level at that point on 30 meters and also 40 
meters; a used a dual trace 30 MHz oscilloscope.

Another possibility is that a 8.215 MHz notch filter is mis-tuned; 
apparently this has happened before.

Let me know if you need more info.. Wayne and Elecraft support in the 
person of Gary Surrency were quite helpful.

Dunc, W5DC

Phil Hystad wrote:
> Since putting together my K3 two weeks ago I had a chance to try it out on 30 
> meters today.  I tuned up my delta loop to 10 meters and then noticed that 
> the power was low.  I thought that maybe my meters were reading funny or 
> something funny about the antenna so I switched over to my Icom 756 Pro III 
> to try the same antenna.  It was dead on with a 1.1:1 SWR on the same 
> frequency of 10.106 MHz.  And, the meters for the Pro III were reading about 
> 101 watts output (two different meters).
>
> So I switched the antenna back to the K3 and checked the SWR and it was about 
> the same, 1.2:1 for the same frequency.  But, the power output is only about 
> 65 watts even though the power adjust knob reads 100 watts.  I tried 
> different readings and about 55 watts, the external meter power output starts 
> to flatten out compared to the digital readout of the power on the K3 (the 
> external meter is an LP-100A).
>
> All other bands show good power output.
>
> Any hints?  
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band

[Phil Hystad]

OK, I fixed the problem.  The SWR reading on the K3 meter was showing about a 
2.8:1 SWR.  Obviously I forgot to tune through the ATU.  I did that and it 
fixed the problem.

peh

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Phil Hystad 
> Date: January 23, 2010 3:43:45 PM PST
> To: Elecraft Discussion List 
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band
> 
> Since putting together my K3 two weeks ago I had a chance to try it out on 30 
> meters today.  I tuned up my delta loop to 10 meters and then noticed that 
> the power was low.  I thought that maybe my meters were reading funny or 
> something funny about the antenna so I switched over to my Icom 756 Pro III 
> to try the same antenna.  It was dead on with a 1.1:1 SWR on the same 
> frequency of 10.106 MHz.  And, the meters for the Pro III were reading about 
> 101 watts output (two different meters).
> 
> So I switched the antenna back to the K3 and checked the SWR and it was about 
> the same, 1.2:1 for the same frequency.  But, the power output is only about 
> 65 watts even though the power adjust knob reads 100 watts.  I tried 
> different readings and about 55 watts, the external meter power output starts 
> to flatten out compared to the digital readout of the power on the K3 (the 
> external meter is an LP-100A).
> 
> All other bands show good power output.
> 
> Any hints?  
> 
> 73, phil, K7PEH
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[Elecraft] K3: Power output low on 30 meter band

[Phil Hystad]

Since putting together my K3 two weeks ago I had a chance to try it out on 30 
meters today.  I tuned up my delta loop to 10 meters and then noticed that the 
power was low.  I thought that maybe my meters were reading funny or something 
funny about the antenna so I switched over to my Icom 756 Pro III to try the 
same antenna.  It was dead on with a 1.1:1 SWR on the same frequency of 10.106 
MHz.  And, the meters for the Pro III were reading about 101 watts output (two 
different meters).

So I switched the antenna back to the K3 and checked the SWR and it was about 
the same, 1.2:1 for the same frequency.  But, the power output is only about 65 
watts even though the power adjust knob reads 100 watts.  I tried different 
readings and about 55 watts, the external meter power output starts to flatten 
out compared to the digital readout of the power on the K3 (the external meter 
is an LP-100A).

All other bands show good power output.

Any hints?  

73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output

[hb9ari]

Trev,

You're Welcome!

As written, i've also to work on the "problem"...

73,
Rudolf


TREVOR WATERS wrote:
> Rudolf,
> Many thanks for the reply to my post. Still working on the problem here.
> Many thanks for your thoughts
> Gud DX Best 73
> Trev GW4IMC
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/9/09, hb9ari //* wrote:
>
>
>     From: hb9ari 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output
> To: "trev" 
> Date: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009, 7:54 AM
>
> Trev,
> Sorry, but i've replied to your private address!
> 73,
> Rudolf
>
> trev wrote:
> > It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so hope
> someone can
> > help.
> > My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed behaves
> oddly. When
> > the TX is keyed with
> > the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although it is
> set to
> > 100watts. Then it seems
> > to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I am
> missing
> > something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu. I would
> appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance.
> > Trev GW4IMC   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output

[hb9ari]

Hi Trev,

Since the beginning, i always get the same behavior
with my K3 #1212 (factory build). I work
essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
level just before full ALC and power to 50W
(for DX only...). At the beginning of a
JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
If  the PA temperature is at ~ 40 to 46°C,
the power variation is lower and power
output start at ~40W; i'm certainly
wrong, but i've always thought that this
was related to PA temp and, as i never get
an output power higher then selected,
this was not a problem in my case.

What is a problem for me is the transmit
audio response; i've tried to adjust XTAL filter
without success; TX EQU compensation
too. As my VFO working frequency
is always set to the JT65A "preferred"
frequency, it's the audio frequency who
defines the actual output spectrum;
for some audio values, i get well over 3dB
output power variations between some
JT65A instantaneous frequencies;  for example,
with a 45W max power, for somes frequencies,
level go under 20W;  i work  with this since more
then one year and i'm always hoping that
the AGC of my correspondent can handle
a "little" ~3dB RF input variation (the QSB
is generally higher...)

Sorry for this time and bandwidth consuming
message.

73 QRO de Rudolf, hb9ari

trev wrote:
> It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so hope someone can
> help.
> My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed behaves oddly. When
> the TX is keyed with
> the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although it is set to
> 100watts. Then it seems
> to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I am missing
> something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu. 
> I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance.
> Trev GW4IMC 
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

All bets are off if you have not performed the K3 TX calibration. That 
is a required step after building the K3.

73,Eric  WA6HHQ


Bill Maddock wrote:
> Trev,
>
>Sounds like a typical K3, both of mine will react very similar especially 
> if I change bands. I will typically hit the tune button
> and adjust my power if necessary. Now perhaps if I went through
> the transmitter calibration it would go away! I still need to
> do all the mods on my first K3 sn# 1059. Nonetheless I am curious
> for a response on this one
>
> 73 de Bill N4ZI  K3's #1059 & #2914
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output

[Bill Maddock]

Trev,

   Sounds like a typical K3, both of mine will react very similar especially if 
I change bands. I will typically hit the tune button
and adjust my power if necessary. Now perhaps if I went through
the transmitter calibration it would go away! I still need to
do all the mods on my first K3 sn# 1059. Nonetheless I am curious
for a response on this one

73 de Bill N4ZI  K3's #1059 & #2914

--- On Tue, 9/1/09, trev  wrote:

> From: trev 
> Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 Power Output
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:33 PM
> 
> It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so
> hope someone can
> help.
> My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed
> behaves oddly. When
> the TX is keyed with
> the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although
> it is set to
> 100watts. Then it seems
> to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I
> am missing
> something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu. 
> I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in
> advance.
> Trev GW4IMC 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Power-Output-tp3563445p3563445.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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> 


  
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[Elecraft] K3 Power Output

[trev]

It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so hope someone can
help.
My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed behaves oddly. When
the TX is keyed with
the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although it is set to
100watts. Then it seems
to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I am missing
something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu. 
I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance.
Trev GW4IMC 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Power-Output-tp3563445p3563445.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3 Power output

[Robert P. Ward]

Hi List

 

I found the reason for lower than expected power output

on 6 meters. It was caused by a antenna relay that had considerable 

loss on 6. Now have the 100 watt rated output. Should have thought 

of the cause before the post. Thanks to all that replied!

 

Bob   NQ3N

 

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[Elecraft] K3 Power output problem - help requested

[Ralph Parker]

Hi gang:
I'm still having power output problems with #1823.
Perhaps you all could conduct a little test for me -

Set your power to 100 watts.
Connect a dummy load or stable antenna.
Enter 'tune' mode to get a constant carrier.
Rap your knuckles on the top of the cabinet, particularly near the back.
Does your indicated power jump up and down?

No need to answer if your output is stable,
but I'd love to hear from you if it varies.

TIA,
VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: power output 'jumps' - help needed

[Maarten van Rossum]

I hoped changing the TXG VCE cured this problem. Unfortunately it did not.
Your not alone.




2008/10/23 Ralph Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>
> So:
> Hardware problem (unique to #1823) or software problem (others have it
> too)?
> Hopefully, this will help us narrow it down.
>
> I'm looking forward to your comments.
>
> VE7XF
>
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[Elecraft] K3: power output 'jumps' - help needed

[Ralph Parker]

On CW, K3 #1823 power output 'jumps' (for lack of a more descriptive word)
intermittently. While either sending CW (or holding the key down), with the
output power set to 100 watts, the indicated power output occasionally
'jumps' up to 130 watts, or down to 80 watts. This lasts for a character or
two and then returns to 100 watts. This happens about 3-4 times a minute
during a two minute transmission. It is also noticeable while sending only
my call once (eg. while calling a DX station).

The 'jump' happens whether the radio is connected to an antenna via ANT 1
or dummy load via ANT 2. It is evident on both internal output meter and an
external power meter. The antenna tuner is bypassed.
It is evident on my amplifier input/output meters - the amplifier doesn't
like the increased drive, and shuts down temporarily. This is a real nuisance!

Elecraft has tried to help, but suggests an ALC software problem, in which
case other K3s should have the same problem. Thence my request:
Please try this at home - if you have the same results, let me know.

Other things I have tried:
A different power supply
A straight key instead of my keyer
Switching antenna connectors
Different power levels
Updated software (currently 2.46)
Radio in 'TUNE' mode (as opposed to external key)
I have not yet used the radio in SSB or data modes.

So:
Hardware problem (unique to #1823) or software problem (others have it too)?
Hopefully, this will help us narrow it down.

On a slightly different (but maybe related) matter:
After I adjust my power output, on transmission the power starts out low,
rises to the preset level, and remains stable on subsequent transmissions
(like it was re-calibrating itself during the first transmission). I can
live with this if neccessary.

At least one other local K3 owner reports that under the above conditions,
his power starts high and then decreases to the preset level. Again, a real
nuisance while driving an amplifier!

I'm looking forward to your comments.

VE7XF

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[Elecraft] K3: power output variation

[Ralph Parker]

K3 #1823 also has the power output variation mentioned earlier by others.

On 20m CW, while calling VK9DWX (split with KRX3 is working just fine),
I noticed that the output, set to 100w, was varying intermittently
by +/- two 'bars' on the output meter.
I later checked it with a dummy load and external wattmeter,
and got the same results, whether sending CW or holding the key down. 

I have not yet tried it into my amp (Acom 1000),
which would yell at me and shut down if overdriven.
I have not yet tried it on SSB.

VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power output level

[Don Ehrlich]

This is the behavior that my K3 exhibited when the forward and reverse 
detection diodes in the SWR circuit on the RF board failed  (D36 and D37). 
Sounds like your K3 is not detecting the level of RF output.


Don K7FJ


I have calibrated the transmit as per the manual at the 50W level. Notice 
that when you turn up the power control it goes to 120W.  Is that normal?


Thanks,
Jack, W3TMZ
. 


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[Elecraft] K3 power output level

[Jack Colson]

I have calibrated the transmit as per the manual at the 50W level. 
Notice that when you turn up the power control it goes to 120W.  Is that 
normal?


Thanks,
Jack, W3TMZ

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