Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Jim Brown]

Simple. Connect the analyzer output to one antenna, the input to the 
other.  Set the sweep range for that where you want to look at antenna 
coupling (usually one band for which the antennas are used). Make a 
sweep and tell the analyzer software to display S21 in dB.  S21 is the 
gain of a device or network.


73, Jim

On 12/3/2017 1:16 PM, Dick Green wrote:

Jim wrote:


Note also that this is a vector NETWORK analyzer. A NETWORK analyzer has input 
and output ports, so that in addition to impedance and TDR, it can also measure 
the response of any system. You can, for example, measure the effectiveness of 
filters, and the coupling between adjacent antennas.

Jim, for those of us who haven’t used a network analyzer, how do you use one to 
measure coupling between antennas?

73, Dick WC1M




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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Wes Stewart]

In this case think of the network analyzer as a transmitter with a receiver 
tuned to the same frequency.  Before testing you connect the two together and 
normalize the receiver response to unity at each test frequency. Now connect the 
transmitter port to one antenna and the receive port to the other antenna.  The 
response will be some fraction of unity, which can be presented as % 
transmitted, or more often in dB.


Wes  N7WS



On 12/3/2017 2:16 PM, Dick Green wrote:

Jim wrote:


Note also that this is a vector NETWORK analyzer. A NETWORK analyzer has input 
and output ports, so that in addition to impedance and TDR, it can also measure 
the response of any system. You can, for example, measure the effectiveness of 
filters, and the coupling between adjacent antennas.

Jim, for those of us who haven’t used a network analyzer, how do you use one to 
measure coupling between antennas?

73, Dick WC1M



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[ab2tc]

Hi,

That ought to be fairly straightforward. Connect one antenna to the the
output port of the analyzer and the other antenna to the input port. Then
set the sweep for the frequency range you want to test.

AB2TC - Knut


wc1m wrote
> Jim wrote:
> 
>> Note also that this is a vector NETWORK analyzer. A NETWORK analyzer has
>> input and output ports, so that in addition to impedance and TDR, it can
>> also measure the response of any system. You can, for example, measure
>> the effectiveness of filters, and the coupling between adjacent antennas.
> 
> Jim, for those of us who haven’t used a network analyzer, how do you use
> one to measure coupling between antennas?
> 
> 73, Dick WC1M
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Dick Green]

Jim wrote:

> Note also that this is a vector NETWORK analyzer. A NETWORK analyzer has 
> input and output ports, so that in addition to impedance and TDR, it can also 
> measure the response of any system. You can, for example, measure the 
> effectiveness of filters, and the coupling between adjacent antennas.

Jim, for those of us who haven’t used a network analyzer, how do you use one to 
measure coupling between antennas?

73, Dick WC1M


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Perlick]

I have the SARK and have used it around the world.  It works great, is 
accurate, tiny, self contained and easy to use.  Only downside is price but 
mine has easily paid for itself (by reducing the number of times I had to climb 
my tower!). 

John Perlick
Aria Corporation
www.ariacorp.com

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Antenna Analyzer (John Harper)
>   2. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Dave Cole (NK7Z))
>   3. FR - KX2 max output now 12 watts (experimental) (John Oppenheimer)
>   4. Re: Antenna Analyzer (John Oppenheimer)
>   5. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Michael Walker)
>   6. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Jim Sheldon)
>   7. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Bob N3MNT)
>   8. Eleraft list (Paul (Tex) Herson)
>   9. For sale (Sid Leben)
>  10. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Dave Cole (NK7Z))
>  11. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Mike Cox)
>  12. Re: Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4) (Peter Eijlander (PA0PJE))
>  13. Re: Antenna Analyzers (Mike Lichtman)
>  14. OT - Want to buy SideKar (Paul (Tex) Herson)
>  15. Antenna Analyzer (Dick Dickinson)
>  16. Re: Eleraft list (Charlie T)
>  17. Happiness is a new Elecraft Purchase (Mark Tosiello)
>  18. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Igor Sokolov)
>  19. Re: K3 PRE function question (Edward R Cole)
>  20. Re: K3 PRE function question (GRANT YOUNGMAN)
>  21. Re: Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4) (Ignacy)
>  22. Re: Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4) (Mark Goldberg)
>  23. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Doug Person)
>  24. Re: Antenna Analyzer (George Thornton)
>  25. K1 price? (Ken Alexander)
>  26. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Ronnie Hull)
>  27. Re: Antenna Analyzer (Michael Walker)
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 06:57:08 -0600
> From: John Harper <johna...@gmail.com>
> To: Elecraft list <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Elecraft]  Antenna Analyzer
> Message-ID:
>

Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Don Wilhelm]

Bob and all,

The "classic" formula for a wire half wave dipole (known to most hams) 
is 468/F (length in feet and frequency in MHz), and your "492 x K" 
factor is correct.  Sorry for those who use metric, you will have to 
convert)


However, that may not lead to a resonant antenna due to a number of 
factors - height above ground, proximity to other objects, diameter to 
length ratio of the wire among the most obvious factors.


In his years on this planet, L.B. Cebik long preached that "cutting 
formulas" such as 468/F were only an approximation.


Armed with an antenna analyzer and a calculator plus measuring tape, you 
can cut an antenna to be 'resonate' at the shack end of the antenna 
feedline in two tries.  The following technique appeared in QST 
Technical Correspondence for May 2017 (yes, it was my contribution).


The steps are as follows:
- Cut the antenna according to the 468/F formula and add 10%.  Write 
down the length.
- Put it into its final position and with the antenna analyzer, measure 
its resonance point (take your pick of whether that is point of lowest 
SWR or the point where the reactance goes to zero).
- Multiply the length of the antenna by the frequency you picked to call 
the resonant point.  That will yield a number to replace the "468" in 
the cutting formula.
- Use the resulting number and divide by the frequency where you want 
resonance to be.  That is the new length of the antenna.

- Cut the antenna to the new length and put it up and operate.

This works well for HF.  VHF may have other factors involved, so you may 
have to check the results again after the initial adjustment, but the 
principle remains the same.
This method takes into account the antenna surroundings and shortens the 
"cut and try" process considerably.


73
Don W3FPR


On 12/1/2017 3:22 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Agreed.   I've always said hams cut an antenna a bit long and then trim 
it to get the lowest SWR at the desired frequency. This does not 
necessarily make for a resonant antenna.    My 75M antenna is resonant 
at 3.8 MHz as determined using a Grid Dip Oscillator,  but the impedance 
is about 35 ohms giving a SWR of about 1.4:1 .  At 3.9 MHz the SWR is 
1:1.  The length is actually 123 ft.  But the SWR 1:1 point indicates 
the antenna is 119.8 ft in length.


The resonant electrical length of a 1/2 wave dipole antenna is defined 
as Length being = (492 x K) / Frequency [MHz.]    This does not assure 
it will have a 1:1 SWR at the design frequency, but only that it will be 
resonant at that frequency.   {K = ratio of 1/2 wavelength to conductor 
diameter.  Typically for wire HF antennas a value of 0.95 is used.}



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Agreed.   I've always said hams cut an antenna a bit long and then trim 
it to get the lowest SWR at the desired frequency. This does not 
necessarily make for a resonant antenna.    My 75M antenna is resonant 
at 3.8 MHz as determined using a Grid Dip Oscillator,  but the impedance 
is about 35 ohms giving a SWR of about 1.4:1 .  At 3.9 MHz the SWR is 
1:1.  The length is actually 123 ft.  But the SWR 1:1 point indicates 
the antenna is 119.8 ft in length.


The resonant electrical length of a 1/2 wave dipole antenna is defined 
as Length being = (492 x K) / Frequency [MHz.]    This does not assure 
it will have a 1:1 SWR at the design frequency, but only that it will be 
resonant at that frequency.   {K = ratio of 1/2 wavelength to conductor 
diameter.  Typically for wire HF antennas a value of 0.95 is used.}


Just remember, the radiation resistance of the antenna will vary 
according to height above ground.  Thus a 1/2 wave dipole at resonance 
will have its center feed impedance vary from some 20 ohms at 1/8 
wavelength above ground to over 90 ohms at 3/8 wavelength above ground.  
And at 1/2 wavelength above ground the impedance is near 70 ohms.  Of 
course ground conductivity will affect the actual results.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/1/2017 1:54 PM, John Harper wrote:

Elecraft rigs, including the KX2, have an indicator for SWR that the rig
sees. Resonance can be clearly seen by moving up and down the band to
find it.

Not necessarily. Resonance and point of lowest SWR do not always coincide.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I find that Jim's thoughts and findings are similar to mine. SWR is 
really not a good indication of how well an antenna works. One of my 
coax lines has a 1:1 SWR from 160M through 6M.  It doesn't receive well 
nor transmit well.  It' has a dummy load on the distant end.


Along the same line, I have a home brew variable L network consisting of 
a tapped inductor, about 24 taps, and a 500 pf variable capacitor.  I 
find it will match about anything that is hung on one end.  If it 
doesn't match, simply turn it around and most likely a suitable match 
will be found.  In all cases, my random wire is not a resonant antenna 
but a length of wire tossed over a tree limb.   With this, the SWR 
indication on the radio is all that's needed.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 12/1/2017 1:09 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 12/1/2017 4:49 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:
But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small antenna 
analyzer to my kit.


Why must every perceived problem be resolved by buying something? All 
Elecraft rigs, including the KX2, have an indicator for SWR that the 
rig sees. Resonance can be clearly seen by moving up and down the band 
to find it.


SWR is NOT an indicator of how well an antenna works, and antennas 
don't necessarily have to be resonant to work well! That depends on 
how we use the fundamentals of how antennas work. Especially when 
using improvised wire antennas with little or no feedline, the only 
thing that matters beyond the fundamental properties of the antenna is 
whether the rig can match it.


I'd be far more likely to drag along more "stuff" with which to rig 
improvised antennas in whatever surroundings I find myself, and to 
study the ARRL Handbook and Antenna Book to understand those 
fundamentals.


73, Jim K9YC



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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Harper]

>Elecraft rigs, including the KX2, have an indicator for SWR that the rig
>sees. Resonance can be clearly seen by moving up and down the band to
>find it.

Not necessarily. Resonance and point of lowest SWR do not always coincide.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Jim Brown]

On 12/1/2017 10:30 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

What calibrations are you doing that take an hour?

You can do a master cal with lots of points in 5 minutes.


Yes.  AND, more important, calibrations can be saved for standard 
measurement setups, so when you're always using a previous setup, 
there's no need to recalibrate -- you simply load the previous calibration.


I use mine in the field all the time using a Win 10 touch screen 
tablet.  The software is phenomenal.  I've been doing network analysis 
since the days when the calibration curve was a grease pencil line on 
a CRT.  I (my employer) bought one of the first HP8510s sold to a 
non-governmental agency.  It cost IIRC north of $200K, was in a 4-foot 
rack cabinet and probably weighed 500 pounds.  With an admittedly 
reduced frequency range, the VNWA3 is for all practical purposes the 
equal of the '8510 and I can hold it in the palm of my hand!


Like Wes, I've been doing swept complex (magnitude and phase) 
measurements since 1982, first in the audio range, later at RF.  I 
bought the VNWA3e about 4 years ago, and have found it to be the 
excellent that Wes describes.  It has an excellent TDR function. Another 
important advantage of this unit over others is that it is self-powered 
from the USB port, so no external power is required.


TDR can be VERY useful when troubleshooting an antenna or feedline 
problem, and the higher the analyzer can sweep, the more fine detail it 
can show. The VNWA can sweep to 1.3 GHz.  Few analyzers the do TDR can 
sweep nearly this high. A wideband TDR sweep can find all the splices 
and many defects in a feedline.


Another use of TDR is that it allows us to measure an antenna at the 
shack end of a feedline, find the electrical length of the feedline with 
the TDR feature, and then using Smith Chart software (free), subtract 
out the feedline to see the Z and SWR at the feedpoint.


Note also that this is a vector NETWORK analyzer. A NETWORK analyzer has 
input and output ports, so that in addition to impedance and TDR, it can 
also measure the response of any system. You can, for example, measure 
the effectiveness of filters, and the coupling between adjacent 
antennas. These plots of bandpass filter response were done with the 
VNWA 3e. Note that you can display several views of the same 
measurement. These display SWR, attenuation, and reflection loss, and 
the markers show values within the passband and on other ham bands.


http://audiosystemsgroup.com/BandpassFilterData.htm

These data were used to generate this report that ran in National 
Contest Journal in 2014.


http://k9yc.com/BandpassFilterSurvey.pdf

With a good external frequency standard (I use a Bodnar GPSDO) it 
makes an excellent frequency counter and works as a limited function 
spectrum analyzer.


Yes, and quite versatile in that mode. Inexpensive SDRs also provide 
limited spectrum analyzer functions, and some of them are quite good IF 
the user is careful to prevent overload and knows how to avoid false 
responses from aliasing.


One other thing.  On my 160-meter inverted-L antenna I receive a 
couple of AM broadcast stations at -3dBm.  If I limit the lower sweep 
frequency to 1.7 MHz the VNWA3 is unaffected.  I suspect some of these 
other boxes are not so resilient. 


This can be very important -- many analyzers get blown away by AM 
broadcast stations.


Here are links to the mfr, SDRKits. The VNWA is NOT a kit, it is built 
and fully tested. You want the model 3E or 3EC with calibration kit and 
cables.


https://www.sdr-kits.net/index.php?route=web/pages_id=29_29

https://www.sdr-kits.net/index.php?route=web/pages_id=68_68

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Hi, Ronnie …

There are a bezillion to choose from — big, small, graphical, TDR, need a 
computer or pad,  etc, as others have pointed out.

Another one you might consider is the iP30z (or iP60z) retailed through 
Buddipole.  They’re a bit pricey compared to some options, but they have the 
advantage of being small enough to squeeze into virtually any bag or a shirt 
pocket, lightweight (7 oz) and do everything you need in the field — SWR, |Z|.  
All the advanced features that have been mentioned are good to have now and 
then, but if you’re looking for small and imminently packable for a hike into a 
noise free park or a walk to the beach, as I was, it’s a good choice.  Quick, 
easy, simple — and you don’t have to pack the manual to figure it out :-)

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> On Dec 1, 2017, at 7:49 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:
> 
> just a quick question for the collective group here. I have built up my KX-2 
> travel kit. The first week of november I took it with me to a  cabin I leased 
> outside of Gatlinburg, TN for some portable operating when I wasn’t up in the 
> mountains hiking. I took m y Super Antenna MP-1 plus the parts to throw up a 
> full wave loop for 40M. I did throw the loop up, and it out performed the 
> MP-1 by kudo’s.  But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small 
> antenna analyzer to my kit.
> I don’t need a big full size MFJ, which I do have. But something small.  Any 
> experience here y’all?  
> 
> thanks in advance for your answers
> 
> Ronnie W5SUM
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Because new toys are always exciting?

On 12/1/2017 11:09 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

Why must every perceived problem be resolved by buying something?

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Jim Brown]

On 12/1/2017 4:49 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:

But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small antenna analyzer to my 
kit.


Why must every perceived problem be resolved by buying something? All 
Elecraft rigs, including the KX2, have an indicator for SWR that the rig 
sees. Resonance can be clearly seen by moving up and down the band to 
find it.


SWR is NOT an indicator of how well an antenna works, and antennas don't 
necessarily have to be resonant to work well! That depends on how we use 
the fundamentals of how antennas work. Especially when using improvised 
wire antennas with little or no feedline, the only thing that matters 
beyond the fundamental properties of the antenna is whether the rig can 
match it.


I'd be far more likely to drag along more "stuff" with which to rig 
improvised antennas in whatever surroundings I find myself, and to study 
the ARRL Handbook and Antenna Book to understand those fundamentals.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Mike Furrey]

I have had the Comet analyzer for a year. Although a bit pricey for the number 
of functions, what it does, it does very well and is a very solid, well built, 
and easy to use device. With that said, I will add a VNA unit to my arsenal of 
analyzers soon. 

It sure would not hurt my feeling to see what what Elecraft could do in the 
analyzer department!
73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Friday, December 1, 2017 12:35 PM, Michael Walker  
wrote:
 

 The RigExpert AA-1400 fits perfectly in a $40 Pelican 1200 case.

I have mine, charger, batteries, etc in a nice Red 1200.

I would post a pic, but you can't on this reflector.

Mike va3mw


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:19 PM, George Thornton <
gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote:

> The Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) is a hugely important feature, and is
> now available with other brands, including some of the RigExpert models.
>
> I do a lot of field work with both HF and VHF/UHF.  In my experience most
> of the problems I have encountered have been traced to cable defects of one
> kind or another.  The TDR function allows you to quickly and reliably test
> the integrity of cabling, allowing you to identify the exact location of
> the defect.
>
> I am partial to the RigExpert models, which have been reliable and
> accurate, and very easy and intuitive to use.
>
> My only quarrel with RigExpert is that they do not offer water resistant
> sealed cases.  These can get damaged in a wet environment.
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Michael Walker]

Hi Ronnie

The TDR is a must have.  Once you start sweeping all your feedlines you
will know they are not as good as you might have thought.  :)

Twice I tossed an entire roll of heliax and twice 2 unique runs of RG213.


If anyone has feedlines older than 10 years, you might want to consider the
investment.

Mike va3mw


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Ronnie Hull <w5...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Yes SMALL and PORTABLE is what I am interested in. I never wanted a TDR.
> Rig experts are fine analyzes but out of the league of what I want which is
> something to toss in my "go" bag
>
> Ronnie W5SUM
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:19 AM, George Thornton <
> gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote:
> >
> > The Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) is a hugely important feature, and
> is now available with other brands, including some of the RigExpert models.
> >
> > I do a lot of field work with both HF and VHF/UHF.  In my experience
> most of the problems I have encountered have been traced to cable defects
> of one kind or another.  The TDR function allows you to quickly and
> reliably test the integrity of cabling, allowing you to identify the exact
> location of the defect.
> >
> > I am partial to the RigExpert models, which have been reliable and
> accurate, and very easy and intuitive to use.
> >
> > My only quarrel with RigExpert is that they do not offer water resistant
> sealed cases.   These can get damaged in a wet environment.
> >
> >
> >
> > T-Original Message-
> > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces@
> mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sheldon
> > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:39 AM
> > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer
> >
> > I was introduced to the SARK-110 several years ago and besides being an
> excellent antenna analyzer, it had one feature that nobody else had (when I
> bought the SARK) and that is called a "Time Domain Reflectometer".  This
> allows you to find breaks, impedance bumps and other anomalies in cable
> runs.
> >
> > During my 20 years in the Army, I was introduced to a hugely expensive
> HP-140A oscilloscope with a TDR plug in.  We used it to find cuts in our
> buried coax where the local people were digging it up for the copper (back
> in 1967).  From that point on, I always wanted a TDR but they were way too
> expensive (even used) for a poor ham to even consider until I was
> introduced to the SARK by a good friend at the "OzarkCon" QRP convention.
> It paid for itself quickly by finding where a gopher (or
> > mole) had chewed mostly through some buried coax I had going to a
> vertical in the back yard.  The SARK's TDR pinpointed the break within a
> foot and it was probably more accurate than that as my measurements when
> following the cable were somewhat sloppy.
> >
> > It also makes a pretty decent signal generator as well, can be
> calibrated against WWV with not too much effort, but the minimum signal you
> can output is 50 microvolts (S9) so a good external step attenuator is
> needed along with double shielded cables to minimize feedthrough of
> > the SARK's output signal.   Oh yes, I did mention, it's an excellent
> > antanna analyzer as well and it will do Smith Chart plots and other
> stuff too.  You can control it with a computer via USB too.
> >
> > No financial interest in the company, just a very happy user.
> >
> > Jim - W0EB
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "John Oppenheimer" <j...@kn5l.net>
> > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Sent: 12/1/2017 7:23:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer
> >
> >> The SARK 110 is very small with many features:
> >>
> >> http://www.sark110.com/
> >>
> >> John KN5L
> >> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Wes Stewart]

What calibrations are you doing that take an hour?

You can do a master cal with lots of points in 5 minutes.

I use mine in the field all the time using a Win 10 touch screen tablet.  The 
software is phenomenal.  I've been doing network analysis since the days when 
the calibration curve was a grease pencil line on a CRT.  I (my employer) bought 
one of the first HP8510s sold to a non-governmental agency.  It cost IIRC north 
of $200K, was in a 4-foot rack cabinet and probably weighed 500 pounds.  With an 
admittedly reduced frequency range, the VNWA3 is for all practical purposes the 
equal of the '8510 and I can hold it in the palm of my hand!


With a good external frequency standard (I use a Bodnar GPSDO) it makes an 
excellent frequency counter and works as a limited function spectrum analyzer.


One other thing.  On my 160-meter inverted-L antenna I receive a couple of AM 
broadcast stations at -3dBm.  If I limit the lower sweep frequency to 1.7 MHz 
the VNWA3 is unaffected.  I suspect some of these other boxes are not so resilient.


Wes N7WS
Not associated with any of the players who designed or built this thing.  Simply 
a very satisfied customer.



On 12/1/2017 9:16 AM, Ignacy wrote:


VNWA3 covers > 1300 MHz and costs about $600 but needs a computer. Often
requires multiple calibrations requiring an hr. Has two port for filters and
beam testing. I use it only when nothing else works.


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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[P.J.Hicks]

On the simple side I recently built Jack Purdum's Arduino controlled unit for 
about $60 and it works well and does all the normal functions required for a 
field operation on 10m to 80m. 
73, PJH, N7PXY 
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

The FG-01 is  good IF the unit has the improved 2nd harmonic suppression.  Some 
of the earlier ones only had -6 dB down 2nd.  I have two and the first one went 
back twice to fix it.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Doug Person <d...@k0dxv.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 9:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer
   
I have several antenna analyzers. The best value I think is the YouKits 
FG-01 <https://www.vibroplex.com/contents/en-us/p190.html> .  It's price 
is on the lower end of the scale. It's color display and feature set are 
outstanding. I also have the MFJ 223 which is very compact and highly 
functional. These two are particularly good for travel due to their very 
small size.

73, Doug -- K0DXV


On 12/1/17 8:34 AM, Dick Dickinson wrote:
> Thanks folks for the rundown on current small Antenna Analyzers.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Dick - KA5KKT
>
>  
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Michael Walker]

The RigExpert AA-1400 fits perfectly in a $40 Pelican 1200 case.

I have mine, charger, batteries, etc in a nice Red 1200.

I would post a pic, but you can't on this reflector.

Mike va3mw


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:19 PM, George Thornton <
gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote:

> The Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) is a hugely important feature, and is
> now available with other brands, including some of the RigExpert models.
>
> I do a lot of field work with both HF and VHF/UHF.  In my experience most
> of the problems I have encountered have been traced to cable defects of one
> kind or another.  The TDR function allows you to quickly and reliably test
> the integrity of cabling, allowing you to identify the exact location of
> the defect.
>
> I am partial to the RigExpert models, which have been reliable and
> accurate, and very easy and intuitive to use.
>
> My only quarrel with RigExpert is that they do not offer water resistant
> sealed cases.   These can get damaged in a wet environment.
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Ronnie Hull]

Yes SMALL and PORTABLE is what I am interested in. I never wanted a TDR. Rig 
experts are fine analyzes but out of the league of what I want which is 
something to toss in my "go" bag

Ronnie W5SUM

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:19 AM, George Thornton 
> <gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote:
> 
> The Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) is a hugely important feature, and is now 
> available with other brands, including some of the RigExpert models.
> 
> I do a lot of field work with both HF and VHF/UHF.  In my experience most of 
> the problems I have encountered have been traced to cable defects of one kind 
> or another.  The TDR function allows you to quickly and reliably test the 
> integrity of cabling, allowing you to identify the exact location of the 
> defect.
> 
> I am partial to the RigExpert models, which have been reliable and accurate, 
> and very easy and intuitive to use.  
> 
> My only quarrel with RigExpert is that they do not offer water resistant 
> sealed cases.   These can get damaged in a wet environment.
> 
> 
> 
> T-Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sheldon
> Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:39 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer
> 
> I was introduced to the SARK-110 several years ago and besides being an 
> excellent antenna analyzer, it had one feature that nobody else had (when I 
> bought the SARK) and that is called a "Time Domain Reflectometer".  This 
> allows you to find breaks, impedance bumps and other anomalies in cable runs.
> 
> During my 20 years in the Army, I was introduced to a hugely expensive 
> HP-140A oscilloscope with a TDR plug in.  We used it to find cuts in our 
> buried coax where the local people were digging it up for the copper (back in 
> 1967).  From that point on, I always wanted a TDR but they were way too 
> expensive (even used) for a poor ham to even consider until I was introduced 
> to the SARK by a good friend at the "OzarkCon" QRP convention.  It paid for 
> itself quickly by finding where a gopher (or
> mole) had chewed mostly through some buried coax I had going to a vertical in 
> the back yard.  The SARK's TDR pinpointed the break within a foot and it was 
> probably more accurate than that as my measurements when following the cable 
> were somewhat sloppy.
> 
> It also makes a pretty decent signal generator as well, can be calibrated 
> against WWV with not too much effort, but the minimum signal you can output 
> is 50 microvolts (S9) so a good external step attenuator is needed along with 
> double shielded cables to minimize feedthrough of 
> the SARK's output signal.   Oh yes, I did mention, it's an excellent 
> antanna analyzer as well and it will do Smith Chart plots and other stuff 
> too.  You can control it with a computer via USB too.
> 
> No financial interest in the company, just a very happy user.
> 
> Jim - W0EB
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John Oppenheimer" <j...@kn5l.net>
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 12/1/2017 7:23:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer
> 
>> The SARK 110 is very small with many features:
>> 
>> http://www.sark110.com/
>> 
>> John KN5L
>> __
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
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> 
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> delivered to gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[George Thornton]

The Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) is a hugely important feature, and is now 
available with other brands, including some of the RigExpert models.

I do a lot of field work with both HF and VHF/UHF.  In my experience most of 
the problems I have encountered have been traced to cable defects of one kind 
or another.  The TDR function allows you to quickly and reliably test the 
integrity of cabling, allowing you to identify the exact location of the defect.

I am partial to the RigExpert models, which have been reliable and accurate, 
and very easy and intuitive to use.  

My only quarrel with RigExpert is that they do not offer water resistant sealed 
cases.   These can get damaged in a wet environment.



T-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sheldon
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2017 5:39 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

I was introduced to the SARK-110 several years ago and besides being an 
excellent antenna analyzer, it had one feature that nobody else had (when I 
bought the SARK) and that is called a "Time Domain Reflectometer".  This allows 
you to find breaks, impedance bumps and other anomalies in cable runs.

During my 20 years in the Army, I was introduced to a hugely expensive HP-140A 
oscilloscope with a TDR plug in.  We used it to find cuts in our buried coax 
where the local people were digging it up for the copper (back in 1967).  From 
that point on, I always wanted a TDR but they were way too expensive (even 
used) for a poor ham to even consider until I was introduced to the SARK by a 
good friend at the "OzarkCon" QRP convention.  It paid for itself quickly by 
finding where a gopher (or
mole) had chewed mostly through some buried coax I had going to a vertical in 
the back yard.  The SARK's TDR pinpointed the break within a foot and it was 
probably more accurate than that as my measurements when following the cable 
were somewhat sloppy.

It also makes a pretty decent signal generator as well, can be calibrated 
against WWV with not too much effort, but the minimum signal you can output is 
50 microvolts (S9) so a good external step attenuator is needed along with 
double shielded cables to minimize feedthrough of 
the SARK's output signal.   Oh yes, I did mention, it's an excellent 
antanna analyzer as well and it will do Smith Chart plots and other stuff too.  
You can control it with a computer via USB too.

No financial interest in the company, just a very happy user.

Jim - W0EB

-- Original Message --
From: "John Oppenheimer" <j...@kn5l.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 12/1/2017 7:23:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

>The SARK 110 is very small with many features:
>
>http://www.sark110.com/
>
>John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Doug Person]

I have several antenna analyzers. The best value I think is the YouKits 
FG-01  .  It's price 
is on the lower end of the scale. It's color display and feature set are 
outstanding. I also have the MFJ 223 which is very compact and highly 
functional. These two are particularly good for travel due to their very 
small size.


73, Doug -- K0DXV


On 12/1/17 8:34 AM, Dick Dickinson wrote:

Thanks folks for the rundown on current small Antenna Analyzers.

  

  


Dick - KA5KKT

  


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Mark Goldberg]

I have one more suggestion. I have a MiniVNA Tiny, expensive at about $600,
but it is a full two port Vector Network Analyzer in a 2.5" X 2.5" X 1" box
connected via USB. It has both a computer app and a phone app to run it. I
have taken it out in the field where I would never consider taking a 75 lb
VNA. I have used it to analyze antennas, filters, transmission lines and to
characterize caps and inductors over frequency.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Ignacy  wrote:

> The choice of analyzers is not that simple unless cheap price is the only
> factor.
>
> I have four analyzers: Rigexpert 230Pro, FA-VA4, VNWA3 and Mini60.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Ignacy]

The choice of analyzers is not that simple unless cheap price is the only
factor.

I have four analyzers: Rigexpert 230Pro, FA-VA4, VNWA3 and Mini60.

Rigexpert covers up to 230 MHz and costs about $500. It is the easiest to
use and has the most functionality. Less accurate because it does not have
OLS calibration and is pretty big, but new models (Zoom) have calibration
and are much lighter. Seems rain resistant. Coax testing for short and
length is a blessing. I use it most of the time. 

VNWA3 covers > 1300 MHz and costs about $600 but needs a computer. Often
requires multiple calibrations requiring an hr. Has two port for filters and
beam testing. I use it only when nothing else works. 

FA-VA4 works up to 100 MHz and is very accurate after good calibration
(included 50 Ohm load is not too good). Light but not the smallest. Getting
things done takes many buttons. Not waterproof. Also. soldering is tricky
and I wonder whether bad soldering will show up one time. I use FA-VA4 for
portable measurements where accuracy is important. For instance impedance of
inv L on 160m. Measure impedance, prepare appropriate coil, and no extra
fine tuning needed. Also very useful to measure properties of toroids across
frequency. 

I also have mini60 that works up to 60 MHz, is very small, can be charged
via USB, and interfaces with Android phone, and costs $100. SWR accuracy is
good but X is not. I leave it for travel. 





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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Igor Sokolov]

+1

73, Igor UA9CDC


01.12.2017 18:23, John Oppenheimer пишет:

The SARK 110 is very small with many features:

http://www.sark110.com/

John KN5L
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.



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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Dick Dickinson]

Thanks folks for the rundown on current small Antenna Analyzers.

 

 

Dick - KA5KKT

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer (FA-VA4)

[Peter Eijlander (PA0PJE)]

John,

I saw that one on FunkAmateur/Box73, they sell the kit.

What appeals me is the price (155 euro), the simplicity the way it can 
be built, the features, apart form being a nice graphical analyzer it's 
much more like a signal generator from 100 kHz to 100 MHz. It's readable 
in direct sunlight due to it's LCD type (like te one on a K3 even the 
same backlight color) And the power supply: it uses two AA cells.


I have it and I can say: Highly recommended.

72/73
Peter - PA0PJE

PS No connection to FA/Box73...


Op 2017-12-01 13:57 schreef John Harper:

I highly recommend this one - cost effective, easy to build and compares
favorable to more expensive models:
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2017/10/new-antenna-analyzer.html

More here:
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2017/11/a-brief-comparison-of-two-antenna.html


73,
John AE5X
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Mike Cox]

These were very useful devices from "back in the day". I see a couple 
available on ebay by searching for "Palomar noise bridge"


Mike, AB9V


On 12/1/2017 7:49 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:

just a quick question for the collective group here. I have built up my KX-2 
travel kit. The first week of november I took it with me to a  cabin I leased 
outside of Gatlinburg, TN for some portable operating when I wasn’t up in the 
mountains hiking. I took m y Super Antenna MP-1 plus the parts to throw up a 
full wave loop for 40M. I did throw the loop up, and it out performed the MP-1 
by kudo’s.  But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small antenna 
analyzer to my kit.
I don’t need a big full size MFJ, which I do have. But something small.  Any 
experience here y’all?

thanks in advance for your answers

Ronnie W5SUM
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Having a graph of the entire band is so helpful, The AA series make for 
a single button test...  You adjust, then hit the go button.  You then 
see exactly what happened to your SWR dip.  Did it go too far, not far 
enough, etc.


Others, you have to fuss with knobs to find the dip, then remember the 
last reading...  Seems like a small item, but it is massively helpful 
when tuning up an antenna.  Takes me 20 minutes to tune a 6BTV now.  For 
an example of charts the AA series puts to computers see a short blog 
post I did on tuning up a 6BTV at:


http://nk7z.net/notes-on-tuning-a-6btv/

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 12/01/2017 05:25 AM, Michael Walker wrote:

I would have to agree.  the Rigexpert AA series.

Well made, drop proof and stand alone.

Mike va3mw


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 8:23 AM, John Oppenheimer  wrote:


The SARK 110 is very small with many features:

http://www.sark110.com/

John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Bob N3MNT]

I have had good luck with this one.  Very small and works well.
https://youkits.com/products/youkits-fg-01-1-72mhz-antenna-analyser



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Jim Sheldon]

I was introduced to the SARK-110 several years ago and besides being an 
excellent antenna analyzer, it had one feature that nobody else had 
(when I bought the SARK) and that is called a "Time Domain 
Reflectometer".  This allows you to find breaks, impedance bumps and 
other anomalies in cable runs.


During my 20 years in the Army, I was introduced to a hugely expensive 
HP-140A oscilloscope with a TDR plug in.  We used it to find cuts in our 
buried coax where the local people were digging it up for the copper 
(back in 1967).  From that point on, I always wanted a TDR but they were 
way too expensive (even used) for a poor ham to even consider until I 
was introduced to the SARK by a good friend at the "OzarkCon" QRP 
convention.  It paid for itself quickly by finding where a gopher (or 
mole) had chewed mostly through some buried coax I had going to a 
vertical in the back yard.  The SARK's TDR pinpointed the break within a 
foot and it was probably more accurate than that as my measurements when 
following the cable were somewhat sloppy.


It also makes a pretty decent signal generator as well, can be 
calibrated against WWV with not too much effort, but the minimum signal 
you can output is 50 microvolts (S9) so a good external step attenuator 
is needed along with double shielded cables to minimize feedthrough of 
the SARK's output signal.   Oh yes, I did mention, it's an excellent 
antanna analyzer as well and it will do Smith Chart plots and other 
stuff too.  You can control it with a computer via USB too.


No financial interest in the company, just a very happy user.

Jim - W0EB

-- Original Message --
From: "John Oppenheimer" <j...@kn5l.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 12/1/2017 7:23:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer


The SARK 110 is very small with many features:

http://www.sark110.com/

John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Michael Walker]

I would have to agree.  the Rigexpert AA series.

Well made, drop proof and stand alone.

Mike va3mw


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 8:23 AM, John Oppenheimer  wrote:

> The SARK 110 is very small with many features:
>
> http://www.sark110.com/
>
> John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Oppenheimer]

The SARK 110 is very small with many features:

http://www.sark110.com/

John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

The AA series from Rigexpert is also very lightweight...

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 12/01/2017 04:53 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

The RigExpert line is small.

73,

John
WA1EAZ


On Dec 1, 2017, at 7:49 AM,   wrote:

just a quick question for the collective group here. I have built up my KX-2 
travel kit. The first week of november I took it with me to a  cabin I leased 
outside of Gatlinburg, TN for some portable operating when I wasn’t up in the 
mountains hiking. I took m y Super Antenna MP-1 plus the parts to throw up a 
full wave loop for 40M. I did throw the loop up, and it out performed the MP-1 
by kudo’s.  But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small antenna 
analyzer to my kit.
I don’t need a big full size MFJ, which I do have. But something small.  Any 
experience here y’all?

thanks in advance for your answers

Ronnie W5SUM
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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Harper]

I highly recommend this one - cost effective, easy to build and compares
favorable to more expensive models:
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2017/10/new-antenna-analyzer.html

More here:
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2017/11/a-brief-comparison-of-two-antenna.html


73,
John AE5X
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Stengrevics]

The RigExpert line is small.

73,

John
WA1EAZ

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 7:49 AM,   wrote:
> 
> just a quick question for the collective group here. I have built up my KX-2 
> travel kit. The first week of november I took it with me to a  cabin I leased 
> outside of Gatlinburg, TN for some portable operating when I wasn’t up in the 
> mountains hiking. I took m y Super Antenna MP-1 plus the parts to throw up a 
> full wave loop for 40M. I did throw the loop up, and it out performed the 
> MP-1 by kudo’s.  But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small 
> antenna analyzer to my kit.
> I don’t need a big full size MFJ, which I do have. But something small.  Any 
> experience here y’all?  
> 
> thanks in advance for your answers
> 
> Ronnie W5SUM
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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[w5sum]

just a quick question for the collective group here. I have built up my KX-2 
travel kit. The first week of november I took it with me to a  cabin I leased 
outside of Gatlinburg, TN for some portable operating when I wasn’t up in the 
mountains hiking. I took m y Super Antenna MP-1 plus the parts to throw up a 
full wave loop for 40M. I did throw the loop up, and it out performed the MP-1 
by kudo’s.  But it struck me that it might be nice to add a small antenna 
analyzer to my kit.
I don’t need a big full size MFJ, which I do have. But something small.  Any 
experience here y’all?  

thanks in advance for your answers

Ronnie W5SUM
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Stewart Baker]

Hi Tom,

Have a look at this site 

http://www.miniradiosolutions.com/

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:23:25 -0400, KJ3D wrote:
 Hello Group,

 I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
 recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.

 Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
 beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
 these things go for.

 So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,
 and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
 issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
 years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
 cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.

 Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
 reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
 disembodied reviews on eHam.

 Any thouhts about the 259B?

 Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,
 so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
 job.

 Thanks in advance,

 es 73

 Tom, kj3d

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 4991


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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[David Douglass]

Tom,

Any thoughts about the 259B?

Check out the following site and look at the projects link. The SCARC sell a
Antenna Analyser kit ($140AUS including international postage, which will be
not much over $100US)

http://www.scarc.org.au/

I have built one of these and it works FB. It is not of the same quality as
an Elecraft kit, but the price is good and you get the added bonus of making
it yourself. 

David, VK2NU

PS...maybe this should be something Elecraft should look at adding to there
product list in the future, I'm sure this would be a goer !!




--

Message: 18

Any thoughts about the 259B?
 


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Marteinn Sverrisson]

Hi

VK5JST Aerial Analyzer, covers up to 30MHz, a kit is abt $100.

take a look at: http://www.users.on.net/~endsodds/analsr.htm


73, Matti
-- 
   Marteinn SverrissonTF3MA
  Langitangi 2Internet: tf3ma [at] raunvis [dot] hi [dot] is
270 Mosfellsbær   http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~tf3ma
   Iceland
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Tom Zeltwanger]

I just got one. It works great. Already saved me hundreds of trips between the 
shack and the antenna. I didn't want to spend the money, but there is really no 
other easy way to tune an antenna. I have heard that MFJ quality has improved 
in general, but can only say my unit seems fine.

73,

Tom KG3V


Quoting KJ3D [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello Group,
  
 I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
 recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
  
 Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
 beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
 these things go for.
  
 So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,
 and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
 issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
 years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
 cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.
  
 Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
 reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
 disembodied reviews on eHam.
  
 Any thouhts about the 259B?
  
 Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,
 so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
 job.
  
 Thanks in advance,
  
 es 73
  
 Tom, kj3d
  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 4991
  
 
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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Craig D. Smith]

I have a MFJ259B.  Had to hold my nose to shell out the $250 or so for
something with that build quality and design flaws (size, battery system,
etc).  That said, next to my transceiver, it is the piece of equipment I use
most often and it does do the job intended.  I would feel naked without it.
Every ham should have one or something equivalent.

The features and quality of ham equipment these days is astounding, but
strangely there, in my estimation, is no really good antenna analyzer on the
market.  I think the MFJ is the best overall unit available, and that is a
sad statement.  Most analyzers (see Eham reviews) score lower than the MFJ.
The Palstar gets good marks for size, quality, etc, but does not have an
analog meter which I think is an essential user interface for convenient
usage.

So I agree with the comment some others have made - there is a big market
for a good antenna analyzer - especially with all the new ham licenses that
will be minted soon.  My wish list includes: About half the physical size of
the MFJ, analog meter plus LCD display, decent battery life, frequency
coverage from 1.5 to 150 MHz, price about $250 or $200 for a kit.  I don't
need automated plotting or computer interface.  Either Elecraft or Larry
Phipps have the technical expertise and kitting experience to do a great job
with such a project.  I hope they are listening!!

  73 Craig  AC0DS
 


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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Darwin, Keith]

Yes, we need something better.  I have the MFJ and it has been fine.
I use it to save wear  tear on my knees.  Take the MFJ to the antenna
and do the adjustment.

But, I wish the MFJ was smaller.  It does far more than I need.  I just
want to know the SWR at each freq. and sometimes the actual complex
impedance.  Beyond that, I don't care what else it measures.

Analog SWR meter is very beneficial.

Another approach might be a small Elecraft rig (K1) with batteries and a
noise bridge.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -

-Original Message-
From: Craig D. Smith

So I agree with the comment some others have made - there is a big
market for a good antenna analyzer ... Either Elecraft or Larry Phipps
have the technical expertise and kitting experience to do a great job
with such a project.  I hope they are listening!!
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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

[Stephen]

Tom,
For a moment I was getting excited because I thought Elecraft had
introduced an Antenna Analyser kit! Now that would be a useful addition to
their product line.
Regards,

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KJ3D
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 1:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [!! SPAM] [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

Wow, that's a lot of response in a couple of hours. THANKS to everyone who
took the time to reply.  You guys are the best.

The Tenna Dipper looks too good to pass up.  Gotta have one.  If it works
out I can spend the rest of the money on a 100 watt hat for the K2.

73,

Tom, kj3d



 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KJ3D
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

Hello Group,
 
I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
 
Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
these things go for.
 
So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,
and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.
 
Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.
 
Any thouhts about the 259B?
 
Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,
so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
es 73
 
Tom, kj3d
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
4991
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

[Dave G3VGR]

I would definitely second that!
Seems like every time I fish out my MFJ259B to use outdoors, something 
else isn't working correctly on it

73 Dave G3VGR
K2 #4783

Stephen wrote:

Tom,
For a moment I was getting excited because I thought Elecraft had
introduced an Antenna Analyser kit! Now that would be a useful addition to
their product line.
Regards,

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KJ3D
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 1:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [!! SPAM] [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

Wow, that's a lot of response in a couple of hours. THANKS to everyone who
took the time to reply.  You guys are the best.

The Tenna Dipper looks too good to pass up.  Gotta have one.  If it works
out I can spend the rest of the money on a 100 watt hat for the K2.

73,

Tom, kj3d



 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KJ3D
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

Hello Group,
 
I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions

recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
 
Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty

beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
these things go for.
 
So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,

and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.
 
Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this

reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.
 
Any thouhts about the 259B?
 
Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,

so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
es 73
 
Tom, kj3d
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
4991
 


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Larry Phipps]

I have the MFJ, Autek Vector Analyst and AEA CIA. Without question the 
most accurate is the AEA, but I usually grab the Autek because of its 
size. It also resolves sign of X. The tuning is touchy though, and the 
menus are a hassle. I hadn't thought of an antenna analyzer product, 
since the field is so crowded, but maybe there's a niche for a simple 
device, along the lines of the MFJ, but smaller and with better product 
build (ie, user built kit ;-) and battery life. Maybe also with the 
ability to determine sign of phase angle.


Larry N8LP



Craig D. Smith wrote:

I have a MFJ259B.  Had to hold my nose to shell out the $250 or so for
something with that build quality and design flaws (size, battery system,
etc).  That said, next to my transceiver, it is the piece of equipment I use
most often and it does do the job intended.  I would feel naked without it.
Every ham should have one or something equivalent.

The features and quality of ham equipment these days is astounding, but
strangely there, in my estimation, is no really good antenna analyzer on the
market.  I think the MFJ is the best overall unit available, and that is a
sad statement.  Most analyzers (see Eham reviews) score lower than the MFJ.
The Palstar gets good marks for size, quality, etc, but does not have an
analog meter which I think is an essential user interface for convenient
usage.

So I agree with the comment some others have made - there is a big market
for a good antenna analyzer - especially with all the new ham licenses that
will be minted soon.  My wish list includes: About half the physical size of
the MFJ, analog meter plus LCD display, decent battery life, frequency
coverage from 1.5 to 150 MHz, price about $250 or $200 for a kit.  I don't
need automated plotting or computer interface.  Either Elecraft or Larry
Phipps have the technical expertise and kitting experience to do a great job
with such a project.  I hope they are listening!!

  73 Craig  AC0DS
 



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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Darwin, Keith]

Sign of the phase angle can be determined by varying freq. and watching
the magnitude to up or down.  I can live without the sign.

Something smaller that gives the same SWR / Impedance answers would be a
big improvement!

You go Larry!

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 - 

-Original Message-
From: Phipps

... maybe there's a niche for a simple device, along the lines of the
MFJ, but smaller and with better product build (ie, user built kit ;-)
and battery life. Maybe also with the ability to determine sign of phase
angle.
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John Lamoreaux]

There was a nice thread on this same topic, some three months ago, on  
the Buddipole reflector.  As a result of that discussion, in the end  
I went with the AmQRP AA-908.  The kit was easy to assemble,  
notwithstanding that it was my first experience with surface mount  
components.  The price was comparable to the MJF -- $230 in the US  
and Canada.  I also purchased the DSP card, for another $80 dollars.   
With a simple reload of software, the analyzer becomes a DSP audio  
filter.  (Unless I'm mistaken, the DSP algorithms are the same as  
those used in the K2 DSP.)


Pax et 73, John N8ELR
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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Don Wilhelm]

Larry,

A kit is a great idea!  Avoid temptations for an instrument that tries to do
everything and ends up doing many things poorly.

I had hopes that the AMQRP Micro908 kit would be a better replacement for my
MFJ259, but alas, it is very inaccurate for impedances that vary much from
50 ohms resistive.  IMHO, its bridge needs a total redesign to make it a
useful instrument.

Of course, the N2PK VNA should be a great instrument if I can ever get
around to completing it, but it is not a tool to use at the top of a tower -
it needs the computer attached to be useful.

73,
Don W3FPR

 -Original Message-

 I have the MFJ, Autek Vector Analyst and AEA CIA. Without question the
 most accurate is the AEA, but I usually grab the Autek because of its
 size. It also resolves sign of X. The tuning is touchy though, and the
 menus are a hassle. I hadn't thought of an antenna analyzer product,
 since the field is so crowded, but maybe there's a niche for a simple
 device, along the lines of the MFJ, but smaller and with better product
 build (ie, user built kit ;-) and battery life. Maybe also with the
 ability to determine sign of phase angle.

 Larry N8LP



 Craig D. Smith wrote:
  I have a MFJ259B.  Had to hold my nose to shell out the $250 or so for
  something with that build quality and design flaws (size,
 battery system,
  etc).  That said, next to my transceiver, it is the piece of
 equipment I use
  most often and it does do the job intended.  I would feel naked
 without it.
  Every ham should have one or something equivalent.
 
  The features and quality of ham equipment these days is astounding, but
  strangely there, in my estimation, is no really good antenna
 analyzer on the
  market.  I think the MFJ is the best overall unit available,
 and that is a
  sad statement.  Most analyzers (see Eham reviews) score lower
 than the MFJ.
  The Palstar gets good marks for size, quality, etc, but does not have an
  analog meter which I think is an essential user interface for convenient
  usage.
 
  So I agree with the comment some others have made - there is a
 big market
  for a good antenna analyzer - especially with all the new ham
 licenses that
  will be minted soon.  My wish list includes: About half the
 physical size of
  the MFJ, analog meter plus LCD display, decent battery life, frequency
  coverage from 1.5 to 150 MHz, price about $250 or $200 for a
 kit.  I don't
  need automated plotting or computer interface.  Either Elecraft or Larry
  Phipps have the technical expertise and kitting experience to
 do a great job
  with such a project.  I hope they are listening!!
 
73 Craig  AC0DS

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007
7:19 PM

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Larry Phipps]

That's true for simple series resonant antennas, Keith. But as I found 
out when writing the sign detection algorithm for the LP-100, it's not 
always the case. Your point is well taken, though. Small, simple, accurate.


73,
Larry N8LP



Darwin, Keith wrote:

Sign of the phase angle can be determined by varying freq. and watching
the magnitude to up or down.  I can live without the sign.

Something smaller that gives the same SWR / Impedance answers would be a
big improvement!

You go Larry!

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 - 


-Original Message-
From: Phipps

... maybe there's a niche for a simple device, along the lines of the
MFJ, but smaller and with better product build (ie, user built kit ;-)
and battery life. Maybe also with the ability to determine sign of phase
angle.
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Larry Phipps]

The N2PK is an awesome piece of gear for the money. I have several 
friends with them. I also have one sitting in a box waiting to be built. 
That project got scuttled when Jack, K8ZOA found a couple of surplus HP 
VNAs that we both bought. He already had his N2PK built, and another HP 
as well, but I am now too spoiled to finish the project ;-) I also have 
one of his Z90 Panadapter kits sitting in a box. I had his prototype for 
awhile last year, and showed it at Dayton... a really nifty kit, and I 
definitely want to finish that project ;-) His manual is awesome... like 
a cross between Elecraft and Hewlett Packard... should be a snap to do 
when I get to it. Jack's website is www.cliftonlaboratories.com. K2 
owners should bookmark it. There is plenty of good K2 test data there, 
as well as some K2 specific construction stuff.


The TAPR VNA that Ten-Tec sells is pretty decent, but pricey, and 
requires a PC. Ditto for the W5BIG which looks like a good design.


I can see maybe a nice, small unit... simple, smooth, handy and accurate.

73,
Larry N8LP
www.telepostinc.com


Don Wilhelm wrote:

Larry,

A kit is a great idea!  Avoid temptations for an instrument that tries to do
everything and ends up doing many things poorly.

I had hopes that the AMQRP Micro908 kit would be a better replacement for my
MFJ259, but alas, it is very inaccurate for impedances that vary much from
50 ohms resistive.  IMHO, its bridge needs a total redesign to make it a
useful instrument.

Of course, the N2PK VNA should be a great instrument if I can ever get
around to completing it, but it is not a tool to use at the top of a tower -
it needs the computer attached to be useful.

73,
Don W3FPR

  

-Original Message-

I have the MFJ, Autek Vector Analyst and AEA CIA. Without question the
most accurate is the AEA, but I usually grab the Autek because of its
size. It also resolves sign of X. The tuning is touchy though, and the
menus are a hassle. I hadn't thought of an antenna analyzer product,
since the field is so crowded, but maybe there's a niche for a simple
device, along the lines of the MFJ, but smaller and with better product
build (ie, user built kit ;-) and battery life. Maybe also with the
ability to determine sign of phase angle.

Larry N8LP



Craig D. Smith wrote:


I have a MFJ259B.  Had to hold my nose to shell out the $250 or so for
something with that build quality and design flaws (size,
  

battery system,


etc).  That said, next to my transceiver, it is the piece of
  

equipment I use


most often and it does do the job intended.  I would feel naked
  

without it.


Every ham should have one or something equivalent.

The features and quality of ham equipment these days is astounding, but
strangely there, in my estimation, is no really good antenna
  

analyzer on the


market.  I think the MFJ is the best overall unit available,
  

and that is a


sad statement.  Most analyzers (see Eham reviews) score lower
  

than the MFJ.


The Palstar gets good marks for size, quality, etc, but does not have an
analog meter which I think is an essential user interface for convenient
usage.

So I agree with the comment some others have made - there is a
  

big market


for a good antenna analyzer - especially with all the new ham
  

licenses that


will be minted soon.  My wish list includes: About half the
  

physical size of


the MFJ, analog meter plus LCD display, decent battery life, frequency
coverage from 1.5 to 150 MHz, price about $250 or $200 for a
  

kit.  I don't


need automated plotting or computer interface.  Either Elecraft or Larry
Phipps have the technical expertise and kitting experience to
  

do a great job


with such a project.  I hope they are listening!!

  73 Craig  AC0DS
  

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007
7:19 PM



  

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Vic K2VCO]

Dan KB6NU wrote:
You all might want to take a look at the Autek Research 
(www.autekresearch.com) antenna analyzers. 


I have an Autek VA-1 (the slightly more expensive model that displays 
the sign of the reactance), an MFJ259B, and a Micro-908.


All of them must be used with great care around RF fields.  Even if the 
field is not strong enough to damage it, it will prevent accurate 
measurements. Thanks to a mixing product of local BC stations that 
appears on 1810 KHz, I can't use any of them to tune a 160M vertical!


The Autek is small and light and provides reasonable battery life from a 
9v battery.  It fits in a pocket. It has only a digital readout so it is 
a little less convenient to read than the MFJ which also has analog meters.


The MFJ uses up batteries, lots of AA cells. It's also a pain to change 
them (lots of screws). I use it when I am in the shack or where there is 
AC power. The analog meters make it easy to find dips and peaks, etc. I 
haven't noticed any QC problems with mine.


The AA908 is interesting.  It is a kit that uses SMT technology and was 
fun to build.  It has an RS232 interface so it can collect data to be 
analyzed on a PC.  Unfortunately, there seems to be a design problem 
which makes it very sensitive to component variations (or something) and 
mine -- and many others -- seem to be very inaccurate over about 10 MHz. 
 I am hoping that the kit manufacturer will come up with a solution.


I would buy an Elecraft analyzer if it were priced under about $250. I 
mean, how many of these things do I need?

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Ken Kopp]

The MFJ uses up batteries, lots of AA cells.

   My battery set has been in mine for several years, so this isn't
   an issue for me.  It does shut off automatically if one forgets.

It's also a pain to change them (lots of screws).

My '259B has (just) two screws holding the battery cover 

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Chris Kantarjiev]

The 259 is a fine unit. When I tuned up my Hustler, I borrowed one from
a local ham, rather than buying one. I also borrowed one of the little
Autek VA1 units, and I used them both. They got about the same results. I like
the 259's knobs and such better than the Autek, but the Autek gave
slightly more information (sign on the impedance). It also fits in 
your pocket and doesn't eat batteries as quickly as the MFJ does.

A few months later, I ended up buying an MFJ 269, to do some 
of my own experiments. I've been perfectly happy with it; it has
some problems, but I think every analyzer under $1K has problems.

I suggest that you try to borrow one before buying!

73 de chris K6DBG

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

[Chris Kantarjiev]

 
 The Tenna Dipper looks too good to pass up.  

It's a nice little unit - I have one, too. The thing to realize is that
it is designed to match a 50 ohm resistive load, *and nothing else*.

Your Hustler is not that - no vertical is. 

(BTW, I'm curious about the 17m addition you got - I have a 6BTV and
wouldn't mind if it had 17m!)

73 de chris K6DBG
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Leigh L Klotz, Jr.]

I have an Autek VA-1 and a miniVNA and here are some tips:
1. Get an Optek neoprene camera case and store it in there.  Put the 
battery in the external pocket, as it gets turned on easily.  Put a BNC 
adapter in the battery case.  I velcro-clipped the case to my antenna 
bag.
2. Don't twist the center pin of the SO239.  It is hooked to a flying 
capacitor lead.


I also have the miniVNA and like it as well but haven't gotten around to 
making it work with a PocketPC yet.


If money is no object, the TimeWave one (designed by a local ham here) 
is really nice.


73,
Leigh/WA5ZNU
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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[KJ3D]

Hello Group,
 
I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
 
Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
these things go for.
 
So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,
and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.
 
Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.
 
Any thouhts about the 259B?
 
Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,
so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
es 73
 
Tom, kj3d
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
4991
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Bob Nielsen]

On Mar 13, 2007, at 5:23 PM, KJ3D wrote:



Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like  
to spend,
so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a  
second

job.



It's somewhat limited in what it can do, but you might consider the  
KD1JV Tenna-Dipper http://www.4sqrp.com/kits/td/td.htm.  You can't  
beat the price.


Bob, N7XY
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Tom McCulloch]

Hi Tom,

 I have little need to use an antenna analyzer, but a while back I just 
had to have one  so I bought a Vectronics VEC-584B which is very similar to 
the MFJ jobbie.  It very well could be the same on the inside with a 
different label on the outside...I can't guarantee that, of course.


But for my limited purposes this does a FB job.  I see they have it at Radio 
Shack for About $230, which is more than I paid, but about a $100 or so less 
than the MFJ.  Here is the RS page:


http://63.240.110.151/product/index.jsp?productId=2111087cp

Take a look and se if it meets yours needs.

Perhaps others here can comment on the MFJ vs. Vectronics analyzer
GL
Tom
WB2QDG
K2 # 1103

 Original Message - 
From: KJ3D [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer



Hello Group,

I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.

Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some 
of

these things go for.

So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of 
reviews,
and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some 
QC
issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over 
the
years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once 
the

cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.

Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.

Any thouhts about the 259B?

Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to 
spend,

so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.

Thanks in advance,

es 73

Tom, kj3d

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

4991


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Jesse Justiss]

Bought the MFJ 259B a couple of years ago and now I
won't do without one.   Since I use open wire feeders
with a tuner it makes adjustments a snap. W8JI has a
website you should visit. 

http://www.w8ji.com/mfj-259b_calibration.htm


 

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate 
in the Yahoo! Answers Food  Drink QA.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Hi Tom,

I bought a MFJ-259B a few years back and had to send it back after a few 
weeks because of a bandswitch problem. The repaired analyzer's bandswitch 
worked properly until a few months ago and had to be replaced.  I never did 
like the way in which the unit I have tunes, too much backlash. It is a 
useful instrument as long as its limitations are recognized but I find the 
Dipper addition not useful. When I have to use internal battery power the 
useful operating time between recharges is quite short, sometimes too short 
to complete a job.


Should I buy another 'Analyzer' it would not be a MFJ-259B, but to be fair I 
have not explored any of the suitable alternatives.


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


- Original Message - 
From: KJ3D [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:23 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer



Hello Group,

I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.

Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some 
of

these things go for.


snip


Any thouhts about the 259B?

Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to 
spend,

so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.

Thanks in advance,

es 73

Tom, kj3d



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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Redux

[KJ3D]

Wow, that's a lot of response in a couple of hours. THANKS to everyone who
took the time to reply.  You guys are the best.

The Tenna Dipper looks too good to pass up.  Gotta have one.  If it works
out I can spend the rest of the money on a 100 watt hat for the K2.

73,

Tom, kj3d



 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KJ3D
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

Hello Group,
 
I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions
recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
 
Having never used one of these I started looking around and got pretty
beaten up with sticker shock - just can't justify spending the bucks some of
these things go for.
 
So, an inexpensive model seems to be an MFJ-259B.  eHam is full of reviews,
and they seem to be either GREAT or DON'T BOTHER.  I know there are some QC
issues with MFJ stuff.  I've had to clean up several of their units over the
years which I actually take some pride in.  They seem to deliver OK once the
cold solders get fixed and the hot glue gets replaced.
 
Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this
reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.
 
Any thouhts about the 259B?
 
Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,
so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
es 73
 
Tom, kj3d
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
4991
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[John R. Lonigro]

Tom:
I've got an MFJ-259 (not the -B model).  It has performed pretty well 
over the years, not perfect, but it always seems to work for me. 

You can get by a lot cheaper with an absorptive SWR bridge and your QRP 
radio.  Go to www.ad5x.com (Phil Salas' website) for some suggestions 
(tenna-tune and tenna-tune2) on how to build one.  Or go to 
www.qrpkits.com (Doug Hendricks' site) for a kit that is similar.  
Someone else suggested www.4sqrp.com (4 states qrp group) for another 
solution.  None of these are as fancy as the MFJ, but if all you want to 
do is adjust an antenna after assembling it, they will probably all work 
fairly well for you.


I have no financial interest in any of these products, but I've used 
some of Phil's ideas and have purchased kits from Doug and the Four 
States group and have been well satisfied in each case.


73's,

John AA0VE

KJ3D wrote:

Hello Group,
 
I purchased a 17 m add-on to a Hustler 6-BTV vertical and the instructions

recommended I use an antenna analyzer to tune it up.
 
 
Anyway, I have enormous respect for the brain trust available on this

reflector and it seems like I know some of you - unlike the more-or-less
disembodied reviews on eHam.
 
Any thouhts about the 259B?
 
Any other suggestions?  - 300 bucks is ALOT more than I would like to spend,

so please don't suggest any of the AEA jobs - I would have to get a second
job.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
es 73
 
Tom, kj3d
 
  

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Andrey Stoev]

Hi,

Take a look at Palstar ZM30 (http://www.palstar.com/zm30.php).
IMHO it is a pretty good analyzer. Check also the reviews at eham.net for 
more details on the performance!


73 


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Lambs, Dick Judy]

For a bargain approach, you might consider an antenna noise bridge  
instead of an analyzer.  Used in conjunction with your receiver or  
transceiver (no transmitting needed), you can readily find the  
antenna resonant frequency.  If you want to know resistance,  
capacitive reactance, and inductive reactance, for any frequency, you  
can compute them from the dial readings.   The  MFJ-202B noise bridge  
is $60.  There are kit providers, and there's usually at least one on  
ebay for around $15 to $30.


Dick, K0KK





Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend?
I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
brand?

Kurt - ae6uj




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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[J F]

Hi Kurt,

I'd vote for the Micro908 (only three kits left!). I
built a Round 1 kit and learned a lot doing so.
As far as performance, I'm comparing it to the RF-1.
The 908 is so much easier to use, and I feel provides
better results (closer to anticipated design values).
 
One of the great things about the AmQRP kit is the
support. There are folks writing all sorts of
software, improving routines and adding to the
function list. It's all shared! What more could you
ask for fron an competitively priced kit?

I like the fact that you can calibrate the unit. I'll
be adding the backlit display in the future (nocturnal
antenna tweaker). There will be a new DDS shipping
shortly which will extend the usable range to 60Mhz.

73,
Julius
n2wn

PS I liked it so much I bought another kit...
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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Stan Rife]

Did you see the price, though?  I think I'll stick with my Micro908.

Stan Rife
W5EWA
Houston, TX
K2 S/N 4216
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ward Willats
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:00 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer


This caught my eye. Don't know if it is shipping yet or not

http://www.timewave.com/TZ-900.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Stuart Rohre]

You can determine the sign of the reactance by simply tuning higher in 
frequency.  IF the reactance increases it is inductive, if it DECREASES, it 
is capacitive reactance.  Remember the basic formula for inductive is Xl = 
2Pi fL, while the inverse formula is for capacitive reactance, thus it 
decreases with frequency increase.

Stuart
K5KVH 



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Leigh L Klotz, Jr.]

I have seen and tried this unit, both in the field at AmTech day 
(http://fars.k6ya.org) and at the Timewave Pacificon booth, and know the 
pepole (Dale NX6S et. al.) who designed it.  It is very nice.  I want 
one, but is expensive.  If I had a lab budget I would get one.


At AmTech day I hooked a piece of twin lead to it and got the frequency 
it was 1/2 wavelength on.  It agreed with my Autek VA1 but had a few 
more decimal places, and was much easier to use, giving the results in 
real time.  Dale also said I could have terminated it in a resistor and 
gotten a Smith chart for finding the characteristic impedance, also in 
real time.


At Pacifocon, I hooked a Maldol 20m whip to it, saw two dips in the SWR 
curve (one at about 16MHz and the other somewhere equally useless, 9MHz 
I think).  I clipped a foot of bus wire to it (I trick I think I learned 
from N6KR at a PAARA club prsentation) and the dip went down a bit but 
not to 14MHz.  The analyzer showed me this graphically in real time on 
its screen, and also on a computer which was slaved to it (though not 
required).


Then I walked off with Dale's BNC connector.  (I couldn't fit the 
analyzer in my pocker.)


Leigh / WA5ZNU
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 8:00 pm, Ward Willats wrote:

This caught my eye. Don't know if it is shipping yet or not

http://www.timewave.com/TZ-900.html

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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Kurt Loken]

Hello All,

I've decided that before I get too carried away with
antenna experiments (mag loops, etc.), it would
probably be a good idea to get an antenna analyzer.   

Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend? 
I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
brand?

Too bad Elecraft doesn't offer one.  I would love to
see them do for antenna analyzers what they did for
antenna tuners with the T1.

Regard, 

Kurt - ae6uj




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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Stephen W. Kercel]

Kurt:

Depends on what you're trying to do. If all you want is to read SWR without 
sending out a transmitted signal, the MFJ-207 will do nicely. You can often 
find them in the $60-70 range on eBay.


MFJ makes a very fancy R+JX analyzer. However, it has a reputation for 
uneven quality and reliability. (In fairness, many Elecraft list members 
report themselves being quite happy with the fancy MFJs.)


My opinion is that in R+JX analyzers, if you're strictly interested in HF, 
the best value for the money is the Palstar ZM-30 available for $349 from 
the manufacturer. I own one and I am very happy with it. (Disclaimer: I 
have no financial interest in Palstar. I'm merely a very happy customer.)


73,

Steve
AA4AK



At 04:02 PM 11/13/2005 -0800, Kurt Loken wrote:

Hello All,

I've decided that before I get too carried away with
antenna experiments (mag loops, etc.), it would
probably be a good idea to get an antenna analyzer.

Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend?
I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
brand?

Too bad Elecraft doesn't offer one.  I would love to
see them do for antenna analyzers what they did for
antenna tuners with the T1.

Regard,

Kurt - ae6uj




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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Andrey Stoev]

Hi,

If you consider yourself as lucky you can try the MFJ - it's a good idea 
as product but very slopy execution and on the top of everything seems there 
is no QC at the factory whatsoever - you might get a good unit but you might 
get pure junk as well!
A good choice (and just a bit more expensive) would be Palstar ZM30 - 
http://www.palstar.com/zm30.php - i think its a much better product then the 
mfj - well built, upgradeable firmware, VFO, PC interface, etc.

Hope this helps!

73s




Hello All,

I've decided that before I get too carried away with
antenna experiments (mag loops, etc.), it would
probably be a good idea to get an antenna analyzer.

Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend?
I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
brand?

Too bad Elecraft doesn't offer one.  I would love to
see them do for antenna analyzers what they did for
antenna tuners with the T1.

Regard,

Kurt - ae6uj

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Fwd: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[JEAN-FRANCOIS MENARD]

I'm selling my MFJ-259B I want to buy a Palstar ZM-30... look at  
www.palstar.com.


73

Le 05-11-13 à 19:02, Kurt Loken a écrit :


Hello All,

I've decided that before I get too carried away with
antenna experiments (mag loops, etc.), it would
probably be a good idea to get an antenna analyzer.

Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend?
I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
brand?

Too bad Elecraft doesn't offer one.  I would love to
see them do for antenna analyzers what they did for
antenna tuners with the T1.

Regard,

Kurt - ae6uj




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=
/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\   JEAN-FRANCOIS MENARD
 V  A  2  V  Y  Z   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/

FISTS #11896
Elecraft K2 #4130
Elecraft KX1 #999

http://homepage.mac.com/jfmenard
=



=
/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\/¯\   JEAN-FRANCOIS MENARD
 V  A  2  V  Y  Z   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/

FISTS #11896
Elecraft K2 #4130
Elecraft KX1 #999

http://homepage.mac.com/jfmenard
=


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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Ian Stirling]

  I've heard that the MFJ doesn't give the sign
of the reactive component - in otherwords, can't
tell whether it's a capacitor or an inductor.
  I have an Autek Research VA1 - can hardly believe
that it has an old 68HC705P6 as its engine, but
it works as advertised and I like it.

Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR, K2 #4962
--
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Ward Willats]

This caught my eye. Don't know if it is shipping yet or not

http://www.timewave.com/TZ-900.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer

[Stewart Baker]

Hi Kurt,

You might be interested in this antenna analyser.
http://www.qsl.net/iw3hev/

73
Stewart G3RXQ

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:02:21 -0800 (PST), Kurt Loken wrote:
 Hello All,

 I've decided that before I get too carried away with
 antenna experiments (mag loops, etc.), it would
 probably be a good idea to get an antenna analyzer.

 Anyone have a favorite they would like to recommend?
 I'm leaning toward the Micro908 from the American QRP
 Club.   Anyone want to talk me into an MFJ or another
 brand?

 Too bad Elecraft doesn't offer one.  I would love to
 see them do for antenna analyzers what they did for
 antenna tuners with the T1.

 Regard,

 Kurt - ae6uj


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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer sensitivity to near-field effects

[jferg977]

Hoping this isn't too far afield, I think someone mentioned that the 
anaylzer he/she uses was
capable of seeing near field effects and indicating the cumulative 
results in its display.  Does this
mean that an analyzer could be used to position a vertical in a complex 
environment (such as

the one on my boat) for optimum efficiency?
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer sensitivity to near-field effects

[vze3v8dt]

There is a specific formula to determine if you are in the near field or far 
field and the distance is based on the wavelength to give you a specific 
distance from the source antenna.  It has to do with a changing phase front (in 
the near field) or a constant phase front (in the far field).  BTW, the amount 
of power that is being transmitted is not a factor in the near field vs far 
field determination.

However, I think the comment was that if you are near (not necessarily in the 
near field) a high power transmitter, for example an AM broadcast station and 
the field density is quite high it can give erroneous readings of SWR on an 
antenna you are testing.  The reason for this is that there is no filter on the 
front end of the cheaper analyzers to look only at the  power incident from the 
antenna to the analyzer.  This power is the sum of the refelected power due to 
the real SWR at the test frequency plus any power that is being picked up 
locally by the analyzer.  So, in such a case, if it is due to an AM broadcast 
station for example I think the suggestion was to use a BCB filter, or actually 
a high pass filter with a cutoff below where you are trying to measure.  This 
gets more difficult when trying to measure an antenna on 160m since it is so 
close to the high end of the AM Broadcast Band.  Anyway, I hope you get the 
idea.  I'm not sure I answered your question directly, and probably didn't, but 
hope I shed some light on the topic anyway.

BTW, nearfield antenna ranges need to accurately measure magnitude and phase 
over the measurement area and then do some fancy Fourier Transforms to predict 
what the antenna patter would look like in the far field.  It is an indirect 
but proven method of measuring antennas.  Far field ranges of course are much 
larger and often end up including a sensing antenna that is located outdoors, 
oh and only have to measure magnitude (not phase).  Things like vehicles 
driving past, weather and changes in ground conductivity influence some of 
those range results, so in many cases even though fancier (more expensive) test 
equipment is needed to do near field measurements it often is a benefit by 
saving time and improving repeatability of measurements due to changing 
environments.

73,

Mark, NK8Q


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed Aug 03 11:03:34 CDT 2005
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer sensitivity to near-field effects

Hoping this isn't too far afield, I think someone mentioned that the 
anaylzer he/she uses was
capable of seeing near field effects and indicating the cumulative 
results in its display.  Does this
mean that an analyzer could be used to position a vertical in a complex 
environment (such as
the one on my boat) for optimum efficiency?
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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer sensitivity to near-field effects

[Stuart Rohre]

It is very true that antenna analyzers are affected adversely, without 
filtering, in the near field of transmitters such as AM stations.

Here at the research lab, we are about a mile from a directional AM station. 
One of the popular antenna analyzers gave swinging SWR meter readings 
following the AM station modulation.  It was necessary to eye ball average 
the swings to a value for what we were measuring at 400 MHz!

Now there are filters sold for that AM interference.
The other way of dealing with the directional station is to wait and do 
measurements after sundown when they reduce power in our direction.  Many 
stations drop power in all directions at sundown to avoid skip interference 
to others.

Near field can be distinguished from far field by knowing that the energy is 
leaving the antenna in all directions in the near field, and has not reached 
a planar directional wave front appearance.  In the far field, you can find 
the wave has its plane wave orientation, and the distinguishing character of 
the field by horizontal or vertical polarization of the electric component.

Near field can be out to a couple of wavelengths, and far field beyond that, 
as a rough generalization. 



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer sensitivity to near-field effects

[Stuart Rohre]

Hmm, I am not sure what that would mean, an analyzer that can see near field 
effects.

The in line analyzers indirectly might show near field effects simply by 
being interfered with by strong RF nearby.

Almost anywhere on the boat that is away from structure and conductors will 
have the same HF efficiency, if a full size HF antenna, or nearly so.

To really have differing efficiency, you would have to be able to move 
things at least a quarter to half wave to see an effect.  I am thinking you 
mean a pleasure boat and not a larger yacht.   Most small boats just don't 
give you many options.   You probably need to place the vertical well aft, 
out of the way of sail apparatus if a sail boat.  On a motor boat, you could 
be anywhere along the center line.  Probably the most important efficiency 
aid is to have wide straps going to a keel ground plate or plates.  The more 
metal in contact with the water the better.

Most sail boats have a very effective/ efficient antenna in loading the back 
stay guy of the mast as a sloper, rather than using a true vertical.  Such 
an antenna will have some vertical and thus low angle take off component off 
the beam of the boat.

Stuart
K5KVH 



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

[Dan KB6NU]

I have the Autek antenna analyzer and think it's a good deal for the price.
A couple guys in our club have the MFJ analyzers, so I've had a chance to
compare. The MFJ display has more information on it, so it's easier to use.
I like the analog meter on the MFJ; it lets you more quickly find an
antenna's resonant frequency. BUT, the unit is bigger than the Autek, and it
seems to go through batteries a lot faster than my Autek. The Autek is
cheaper, too.

I've seen the AEA units, too. They are much fancier, but as you say, they
cost a lot more. If you were putting up antennas every day, you'd probably
want the AEA, but since you probably are not...

Having said all that, I just took another look at the micro908. WOW! It's
very cool. If I were in the market right now, I think I'd go with this
instrument. One big reason is the computer control. Neither the MFJ or Autek
analyzers have this feature. You could do a lot of cool things with this
feature.

As an aside, I swapped e-mail with the Autek guy after I purchased my
analyzer. Since it's obvious processor-controlled, I asked him about putting
some kind of computer interface on it. He answered that nobody would pay
extra for that feature. Bleah.

73!

Dan KB6NU
---
President, ARROW Comm. Assn. (www.w8pgw.org)
ARRL MI Section Affiliated Club Coordinator
CW Geek (FISTS #9342)
Read my ham radio blog at www.blurty.com/~kb6nu

- Original Message -
From: Howard W. Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?


 I would be interested in any experience/opinions with antenna analyzers.
.  I have read the E-Ham reviews and see mixed reviews on Autek and MFJ
analyzers, mostly relating to build quality.  AEA units are more favorably
rated, but also more expensive.  Does anyone have experience with the Micro
908 Antenna Analyzer kit?  Thanks.

 HOWARD W. ASHCRAFT, Jr.  W1WF
 Direct Dial: (415) 995-5073
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 HANSON 333 Market Street, 23rd Floor
 BRIDGETT San Francisco, CA 94105-2173
 MARCUS  Direct: (415) 995-5073
 VLAHOS Main: (415) 777-3200
 RUDY, LLP Fax: (415) 541-9366



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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

[Dan KB6NU]

I can attest that this is also a problem with the Autek. I was using my
Autek analyzer to tune an antenna at a multi-op contest station that our
club was setting up. As I was tuning the antenna, every once in a while, the
readings would just go crazy. I started thinking that my meter was beginning
to fail until I noticed that the meter would start acting funny whenever one
of the other stations was transmitting! :) Everyone got a good laugh out of
it.

73!

Dan KB6NU

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

 There is an inbuilt problem with both of these antenna analyzers and which
 probably applies to the Autek as well in that they are totally unusable in
comm
  sites or areas where there are other adjacent transmitters in operation
at
 the  time of measurement. They are unable to read the SWR due to also
detecting
 the  external TX at the same time and reading this as a poor SWR.

 Bob, G3VVT


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[Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

[Howard W. Ashcraft]

I would be interested in any experience/opinions with antenna analyzers.  .  I 
have read the E-Ham reviews and see mixed reviews on Autek and MFJ analyzers, 
mostly relating to build quality.  AEA units are more favorably rated, but also 
more expensive.  Does anyone have experience with the Micro 908 Antenna 
Analyzer kit?  Thanks.

HOWARD W. ASHCRAFT, Jr.  W1WF
Direct Dial: (415) 995-5073
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
HANSON  333 Market Street, 23rd Floor
BRIDGETTSan Francisco, CA 94105-2173
MARCUS  Direct: (415) 995-5073
VLAHOS  Main: (415) 777-3200
RUDY, LLP   Fax: (415) 541-9366 



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RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

[James T. Jim Rogers, W4ATK]

Howard asks: Does anyone have experience with the Micro 908 Antenna Analyzer
kit?

Howard, I have used the MFJ and like it a lot, however, for me the choice
would be the Micro908. It does more than antenna analysis and has many more
possibilities long run, plus you get to build it!

Jim, W4ATK

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Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Analyzer Opinions?

[John D'Ausilio]

I just finished building a 908 for someone, and mine is coming in the
second round. It works pretty well in the limited testing I put it
through, and you get a development platform for other projects as
well. Plenty of detail on the site. Quality is totally in your control
:)  Parts are all fine, case fit is OK and looks pretty good (although
I'm not sure why it uses a stick-on when there'll be different apps in
the future).

de John/W1RT


On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:12:43 -0800, Howard W. Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I would be interested in any experience/opinions with antenna analyzers.  .  
 I have read the E-Ham reviews and see mixed reviews on Autek and MFJ 
 analyzers, mostly relating to build quality.  AEA units are more favorably 
 rated, but also more expensive.  Does anyone have experience with the Micro 
 908 Antenna Analyzer kit?  Thanks.
 
 HOWARD W. ASHCRAFT, Jr.  W1WF
 Direct Dial: (415) 995-5073
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 HANSON  333 Market Street, 23rd Floor
 BRIDGETTSan Francisco, CA 94105-2173
 MARCUS  Direct: (415) 995-5073
 VLAHOS  Main: (415) 777-3200
 RUDY, LLP   Fax: (415) 541-9366
 
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