RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

A crimped connection will break too in the same way if the wire is allowed
to flex where it leaves the crimp. 

That's why critical applications dealing with rather small wires subjected
to lots of movement and constant vibration always employ strain reliefs, not
matter how the wire is attached. Back in my days prototyping electronic
equipment for the USAF, we were concerned about "wicked" solder up under the
insulation only because if the wire did break it was hard to find. The break
was hidden inside the insulation. 

We recommended crimping for many connections because:

1) Electrically, it was as good as solder *if* one used the proper tool and
used it correctly. 

2) It was cheaper because training an assembler to crimp properly was a lot
faster than making them an expert at soldering. It was easy to justify a
tool costing hundreds of dollars to do the crimping. 

3) It was faster and avoided the danger of damage from burns and runaway
solder while soldering a joint in tight quarters - especially hanging half
upside down inside a cramped compartment in an aircraft fuselage.

3) In high current applications, not having solder in the connection
eliminated the possibility of molten solder flowing were we didn't want it
in case of a short circuit that overheated the connection (people have told
me that's why electrical codes for homes and other buildings  doesn't allow
solder too).

Many (perhaps most) Hams are willing to invest the time to learn to solder
well and are happy to invest a little more time when needed rather than buy
expensive crimp tools. But, for those who choose to crimp and spend the
money on the right tool with the right dies and learn to use it correctly,
they can save that time and end up with a joint that is just as robust and
secure as soldering.

Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
Brian,

What you say is true, a soldered connection used in a high vibration 
application will fail at the point where the solder has wicked up into 
the (stranded) wire.  This is an important consideration in aircraft and 
other mobile applications.

In ham home station applications where the wire is not subjected to 
severe vibration, a soldered connection is often more reliable than a 
crimped connection.  That is especially true if the crimping tool is not 
exactly the proper type for the connector in use.  A good crimping tool 
is a rather expensive tool - it must be matched to the connector and the 
wire to be crimped.  Inexpensive substitutes may work for a while, but 
will result in a connection that is more unreliable than a soldered 
connection.

The *real* answer is "it all depends ...".

73,
Don W3FPR

Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote:
>
>> I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power 
>> connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to 
>> do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem.
>
> Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder 
> connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the 
> crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue 
> point where the wire will fail first.
>
> Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you 
> are using the proper terminal for the size of wire.
>
> (This information comes from having wired aircraft.)
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> Granite Bay Montessori School  9330 Sierra College Bl
> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com  Roseville, CA 95661
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID:  12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Don Wilhelm]

Brian,

What you say is true, a soldered connection used in a high vibration 
application will fail at the point where the solder has wicked up into 
the (stranded) wire.  This is an important consideration in aircraft and 
other mobile applications.


In ham home station applications where the wire is not subjected to 
severe vibration, a soldered connection is often more reliable than a 
crimped connection.  That is especially true if the crimping tool is not 
exactly the proper type for the connector in use.  A good crimping tool 
is a rather expensive tool - it must be matched to the connector and the 
wire to be crimped.  Inexpensive substitutes may work for a while, but 
will result in a connection that is more unreliable than a soldered 
connection.


The *real* answer is "it all depends ...".

73,
Don W3FPR

Brian Lloyd wrote:


On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote:

I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power 
connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to 
do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem.


Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder 
connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the 
crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue 
point where the wire will fail first.


Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you 
are using the proper terminal for the size of wire.


(This information comes from having wired aircraft.)


Brian Lloyd
Granite Bay Montessori School  9330 Sierra College Bl
brian AT gbmontessori DOT com  Roseville, CA 95661
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax)

PGP key ID:  12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C


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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Brian Lloyd]

On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Joe Spencer wrote:

I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power  
connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to  
do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem.


Crimp-only connections last longer than do crimp-and-solder  
connections and are just as low resistance. When you solder the  
crimped connection the solder wicks up the wire and creates fatigue  
point where the wire will fail first.


Of course, that does presume you have the correct crimp tool and you  
are using the proper terminal for the size of wire.


(This information comes from having wired aircraft.)


Brian Lloyd
Granite Bay Montessori School  9330 Sierra College Bl
brian AT gbmontessori DOT com  Roseville, CA 95661
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)+1.791.912.8170 (fax)

PGP key ID:  12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C




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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Jim Brown]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:56:31 -0700, Gary D Krause wrote:

> Are you 
>implying that because you are a Liberal Arts Major, you are somehow less able 
>to understand or comprehend than anyone else?  There are many of us with 
>degrees in the arts that are also hams.  It's a hobby.  You have already 
>proven yourself by acquiring a license.  Don't sell yourself short. 

YES. It's really a matter of putting in the time to STUDY and learn the 
technical side of the hobby. After all, that's what separates us from the 
CBers! 
The ARRL Handbook is carefully written to be accessible to folks without 
engineering education, but it DOES require study to learn it, just like it took 
study to get that Liberal Arts degree. I've also done a lot of tutorial writing 
with a similar focus, sharing what I've learned. 

As a non-technical elective in my EE program, I took courses in Music Theory, 
history, and writing. I've used all of them both in my work and for my 
pleasure. 
In the 44 years since I finished my BSEE, I've been studying and/or reading 
something almost every day. Everything from computers to photography to 
acoustics to radio propagation to economics to personal investing to running a 
business. That's life, and when we stop learning, it's time for someone to 
throw 
dirt on us. 

73,

Jim Brown K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Gary D Krause]

What does being a Liberal Arts Major have to do with ham radio?  Are you 
implying that because you are a Liberal Arts Major, you are somehow less able 
to understand or comprehend than anyone else?  There are many of us with 
degrees in the arts that are also hams.  It's a hobby.  You have already 
proven yourself by acquiring a license.  Don't sell yourself short.  Sorry if 
I misinterpreted this but, that's the impression I got after reading the 
subject line.


Gary


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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Joe Spencer]

I have several Crimper tools but do not really trust crimped power 
connectors so...I solder all my PowerPoles connectors. It is easy to 
do...they work everytime and never a crimp problem.


Joe KK5NA

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major


"I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short 
length of

flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not
exist."

That would make a connector change-out very easy should the PowerPole 
contacts become damaged..


A while back, I had shifted the K3 cabinet while listening to a QSO and 
the PowerPole disconnected from the lateral movement.  It's mostly the 
lateral tension that creates the propensity for accidental disconnects. 
If I had moved the cabinet while transmitting at 100W, I suspect that I 
would need to have gone in and replaced the fused/welded pins.  Arguably, 
K3 owners shouldn't be moving the rig while operating!


I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience 
(e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not 
"lock 'n mate" as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX 
and AMP.  Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a 
tie-wrap, or the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson.


Ensuring a correct crimp is part of the solution, but not the whole 
solution.  I have a shop drawer full of professional ratcheting crimpers 
and prior to the recent purchase of the West Mountain crimper, I thought I 
was doing a good job.  But what was occurring with my existing crimper is 
that the contact tip was bending slightly out of alignment during the 
crimp process.  The West Mountain crimper locks the contact tip while 
crimping, thereby ensuring the pin remains straight with the barrel after 
crimping. Moreover, the West Mountain crimper ensures a completely 
concentric crimp. Had I not tried it myself, I would not have believe 
there could be that much of a difference between it and my other 
ratcheting crimpers.


Paul, W9AC







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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[David Cutter]

Unsolder the power pole from the rig and solder the power cable directly to 
the pcb, job done, no more problems.


David
G3UNA


I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience 
(e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not 
"lock 'n mate" as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX 
and AMP.  Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a 
tie-wrap, or the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson.

>
Paul, W9AC


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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Ken Alexander]

> The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to
> the marks on the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything
> in between.  It is good enough for most displays and radio control
> programs since they usually display the S-meter in steps of whole S-units
> anyway.  Those that I have looked at do not indicate fractions of an
> S-unit, so I believe the S-meter resolution is adequate for most
> purposes.

Right on, Don.

Lemme see, when was the last time somebody told me my signal was S6.3 on their 
meternope, never!  S9+21.8?  Never!

8-)

Ken
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Paul Christensen]

"I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length 
of

flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not
exist."

That would make a connector change-out very easy should the PowerPole 
contacts become damaged..


A while back, I had shifted the K3 cabinet while listening to a QSO and the 
PowerPole disconnected from the lateral movement.  It's mostly the lateral 
tension that creates the propensity for accidental disconnects.  If I had 
moved the cabinet while transmitting at 100W, I suspect that I would need to 
have gone in and replaced the fused/welded pins.  Arguably, K3 owners 
shouldn't be moving the rig while operating!


I have a love-hate relationship with the PowerPole: I love the convenience 
(e.g., Rigrunner DC manifold); but I hate that the connector does not "lock 
'n mate" as compared to those power connectors manufactured by MOLEX and 
AMP.  Locking the PowerPole requires some external means like a tie-wrap, or 
the special plastic bridge clip being sold by Anderson.


Ensuring a correct crimp is part of the solution, but not the whole 
solution.  I have a shop drawer full of professional ratcheting crimpers and 
prior to the recent purchase of the West Mountain crimper, I thought I was 
doing a good job.  But what was occurring with my existing crimper is that 
the contact tip was bending slightly out of alignment during the crimp 
process.  The West Mountain crimper locks the contact tip while crimping, 
thereby ensuring the pin remains straight with the barrel after crimping. 
Moreover, the West Mountain crimper ensures a completely concentric crimp. 
Had I not tried it myself, I would not have believe there could be that much 
of a difference between it and my other ratcheting crimpers.


Paul, W9AC







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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Rich,

I've forwarded your comments to our test techs to make sure they look 
for this on each RF board as they test and align it.


73, Eric  WA6HHQ


Rich wrote:

The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3.  After
trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct, several times, I
discovered that the “flat” (with a small dimple) connectors were to far back
on the heavy piece of wire they are soldered to.  This prevents them from
extending all the way out to the proper position as required by the mating
PowerPole connector. Thus when connected the little humps had nor slide over
each other and were not fully engaged.  I heated up each of these two
factory installed connectors and slid them outward slightly – making sure
that they are PERFECTLY even with each other. This took several attempts. 
Once I had gotten perfect alignment with the PowerPole connector installed

in the K3 I achieved a good connection. It now takes about 3-5 pounds of
force to pull them apart.  Since the connector in the K3 is mounted on heavy
wire if they are not soldered in the correct position they will not fit in
the connector correctly.   AND since this wire has a 90 degree bend at the
back, it can keep the connector case from going all the way back and
preventing proper engagement of the mating connector.  The connector on the
flexible wire is not a problem as there is give between the two wires and
that can allow the connectors to be properly seated in the case for proper
alignment and connection with the mating connector. 


I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of
flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not
exist.  Either Elecraft should test EVERY connector or mount the connector
on a short length or wire.

Rich,
KE0X


  

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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Rich]

The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3.  After
trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct, several times, I
discovered that the “flat” (with a small dimple) connectors were to far back
on the heavy piece of wire they are soldered to.  This prevents them from
extending all the way out to the proper position as required by the mating
PowerPole connector. Thus when connected the little humps had nor slide over
each other and were not fully engaged.  I heated up each of these two
factory installed connectors and slid them outward slightly – making sure
that they are PERFECTLY even with each other. This took several attempts. 
Once I had gotten perfect alignment with the PowerPole connector installed
in the K3 I achieved a good connection. It now takes about 3-5 pounds of
force to pull them apart.  Since the connector in the K3 is mounted on heavy
wire if they are not soldered in the correct position they will not fit in
the connector correctly.   AND since this wire has a 90 degree bend at the
back, it can keep the connector case from going all the way back and
preventing proper engagement of the mating connector.  The connector on the
flexible wire is not a problem as there is give between the two wires and
that can allow the connectors to be properly seated in the case for proper
alignment and connection with the mating connector. 

I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length of
flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not
exist.  Either Elecraft should test EVERY connector or mount the connector
on a short length or wire.

Rich,
KE0X




Don Brown-4 wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> PowerPoles can be locked together with a small 'U" shaped piece of stiff 
> wire run through the holes between the red and black blocks after plugging 
> in the connectors. I do this on my solar panel setup to keep the
> connectors 
> in place even if the wires get pulled.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Don Brown
> KD5NDB
> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/Questions-from-a-Liberal-Arts-Major-tp1494099p1495455.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Jan Erik Holm]

Thanks David, yes I believe so, I do get the "click".
It´s no big issue, I can live with it however IMO
as stated before this is a bad type of connector.

73 Jim SM2EKM

David Pratt wrote:

In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote ...

12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.


Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim?  Both my K3 and my 
XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and 
neither of them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment 
is moved.


Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is 
accurate enough for most practical purposes.  In any case, everyone is 
599 or 59 in contests ;-)


73



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[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Don Rasmussen]

>> I'm trying to figure out how to "hear" an S_Meter, but I suppose we  
>> all "listen" in different ways.

It's true Grant, the received signal has a rythm of amplitude that can be seen 
on the S-meter, but that effect is greatly reduced by the AGC if you are only 
listening for a change in the level of the AF. The effect is also reduced 
greatly by displaying 5 db chunk bars only as on/off/flicker values. 

The fading on SSB and CW modes can tell you a lot about what the band is doing. 

To me, this is an issue that has merit, as some others have suggested.

You will really enjoy your K3, and having been an Orion pioneer it will
be an interesting comparison. 


[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Grant Youngman nq5t at tx.rr.com 
Thu Nov 13 12:27:51 EST 2008 

Previous message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major 
Next message: [Elecraft] N2CQ QRP Contest Calendar: Nov 13 - Dec 14, 2008 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 




> Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short  
> for me as well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening  
> experience at this QTH.

I'm trying to figure out how to "hear" an S_Meter, but I suppose we  
all "listen" in different ways.

I'm really surprised, after happily monitoring this list in stealth  
mode for some time while waiting for my K3 to arrive, how much it has  
begun to sound from time to time like every other vendor/product list,  
all of which I finally retired from after tiring of these sorts of  
discussions.  Or perhaps I just haven't yet realized how many serious  
problems my new K3 has :)

(returning to stealth mode)

Grant/NQ5T

UR RST 5 8.39974 9



----------------


Previous message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major 

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RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> I assume you mean 6dB steps:

In the case of the K3 it is 5 dB steps.  If the S-meter is 
calibrated according to the manual S9 = 50 uV and S2 or S3 
= 1 uV.  For S2 = 1 uV we have 20log(1/50)/7 or 4.85 dB/unit. 
For S3 = 1uV we get 20log(1/50)/6 or 5.66 dB/unit. 

A very repeatable 5 dB per unit is fine for me considering 
that most of the even "high end" other transceivers have 
S-units that vary from 2 to 8 dB depending on where one 
starts.  The K3 is also among the very few that can display 
an absolute S-meter (true signal strength) reading as the 
preamp and attenuator are used in various combinations. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:53 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
> 
> 
> > a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps.
> 
> I assume you mean 6dB steps:
> 
> Page 156 <http://www.iaru-r1.org/VHF_Handbook_V5_11.pdf>
> Page 142 <http://www.iaru-r1.org/HFM%20Handbook%20V6.pdf>
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Grant Youngman]

Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short  
for me as well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening  
experience at this QTH.


I'm trying to figure out how to "hear" an S_Meter, but I suppose we  
all "listen" in different ways.


I'm really surprised, after happily monitoring this list in stealth  
mode for some time while waiting for my K3 to arrive, how much it has  
begun to sound from time to time like every other vendor/product list,  
all of which I finally retired from after tiring of these sorts of  
discussions.  Or perhaps I just haven't yet realized how many serious  
problems my new K3 has :)


(returning to stealth mode)

Grant/NQ5T

UR RST 5 8.39974 9

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[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Don Rasmussen]

The K3 keeps the S-meter data in 1 decibel increments, and it's on the 
enhancement list to be made available through the K3 RS232 command set. I've 
done some early testing on this and the virtual analog meter on the PC display 
mimics a true analog S-meter convincingly.

Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short for me as 
well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening experience at this QTH. 

[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
Kurt Pawlikowski kurtt at pinrod.com 
Thu Nov 13 09:54:28 EST 2008 

Previous message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major 
Next message: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major 

Lee,

Don't know about the connector issues (I suppose that might be a 
matter of personal preference). The S-Meter issue has to do with "fine" 
adjustments. Since the meter is a bar graph type, "blocks" are either 
lit or not. If, for instance, you are attempting to "see" the difference 
between 4.3 blocks and 4.4 blocks, they display the same (either 4 or 5 
blocks, depending on software design). Apparently, this design issue is 
also in the data given to a control computer. That is, instead of giving 
a "value" (i.e., 4.321), it is just mimicking the bar graph (i.e., 4 
"blocks"). So, if you're trying to make a comparative measurement 
between similar signals, unless they "happen" to be on the "edge" of two 
"block" values, they will look the same. While this is normal for this 
type of display, it is a little unusual for the computer data stream. 
That usually reflects "raw" data. Does that help? {'-)



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RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Jim Brown]

Joe has again hit the nail on the head. The K3 is a very high 
quality transceiver. It is not test equipment. You want test 
equipment, you buy test equipment. I'm an EE and I've been a ham 
for 53 years. I find nearly all elements of the K3 user interface 
quite satisfactory, including the S-meter. I am, however, looking 
for additional control of the 2nd RX, and I expect to see that over 
the next few months. 

I am also a huge fan of Anderson Power Pole connectors -- beginning 
in 2004 when I bought my first K2, I've gradually rewired all my 
equipment that runs on low voltage DC to use them. Everything from 
laptops, talkies, Ethernet routers, telephones, etc. and all my 
radio gear. They are reasonably priced (at least in North America), 
easy to wire, and quite reliable. 

73,

Jim K9YC

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:39:00 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>> Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter 

>Because some people do not understand the difference between an 
>amateur transceiver and a $10,000 piece laboratory test equipment. 
>The K3's S-meter circuit is derived form the IF DSP and provides 
>a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps.  It does not 
>provide an analog voltage with infinite resolution.  

>> and the power connector "junk" that cannot be fixed?

>The power connector is an Anderson PowerPole and some people 
>(unfairly) object to the use PowerPole connectors. 

>In "liberal arts" terms, there are always those who expect a 
>Ferrari or Maserati for the same price as a Chevrolet Cobalt. 




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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Don Brown]

Hi

PowerPoles can be locked together with a small 'U" shaped piece of stiff 
wire run through the holes between the red and black blocks after plugging 
in the connectors. I do this on my solar panel setup to keep the connectors 
in place even if the wires get pulled.



Thanks

Don Brown
KD5NDB

K3 S/N  0575

--
From: "David Pratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:08 AM
To: "Jan Erik Holm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major


In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote ...

12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.


Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim?  Both my K3 and my XV144 
Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and neither of 
them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment is moved.


Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is 
accurate enough for most practical purposes.  In any case, everyone is 599 
or 59 in contests ;-)


73

--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--


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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Don Wilhelm]

Lee,

It seems that some owners are expecting an analog signal from a digital 
source or expect their receiver to be a precision measurement device.  
The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to the marks on 
the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything in between.  
It is good enough for most displays and radio control programs since 
they usually display the S-meter in steps of whole S-units anyway.  
Those that I have looked at do not indicate fractions of an S-unit, so I 
believe the S-meter resolution is adequate for most purposes.


There is an alternative for those who want better resolution, and that 
is the AFV and dBV alternate displays that can be dialed up in the VFOB 
area when CONFIG is set for TECH mode.  The resolution of AFV is 1 mVp-p 
and is the value of the receiver output.  dBV is relative to the 
receiver output level when the dBV scale was first entered and is in 1 
dB increments - that is just about as good as any analog meter commonly 
available - yes more precision is available in some meters, but they 
cost big bucks.


73,
Don W3FPR 


Lee Buller wrote:



Ladies and Gents.

I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 
and the S-Meter thread of the K3.  Could someone explain (to a Liberal 
Arts Major - not an engineering type)  what the issues are here and 
why they are issues with this radio?  Maybe, I'm lost in all the 
hullabaloo.


Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector 
"junk" that cannot be fixed?


Thank you for the education.

  

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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Vic K2VCO]

Lee Buller wrote:


Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector
"junk" that cannot be fixed?


The s-meter is only useful to give a rough reading of signal strength. 
It is good enough for RST reports.


However, the radio includes a built-in 'dBV' (this is in quotes for 
those who will say that it should be called something else) function 
which can provide an accurate measurement of relative signal strength 
when necessary.


Some people hate Powerpole connectors, others love them. I am of the 
latter persuasion. They need to be assembled carefully and then in my 
opinion they work well and are extremely convenient.


But then, I like PL259/SO239's too.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[David Pratt]

In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote ...

12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.


Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim?  Both my K3 and my 
XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a definite 'click' and 
neither of them have come apart unintentionally even when the equipment 
is moved.


Being digital, the S-meter has incremental steps of one S-point which is 
accurate enough for most practical purposes.  In any case, everyone is 
599 or 59 in contests ;-)


73

--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--


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RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[dj7mgq]

a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps.


I assume you mean 6dB steps:

Page 156 
Page 142 


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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Matt Palmer]

You mean the S-meter reads in S units (6db) how unique. Also the damn
powerpole thing has been beat to death over numerous threads on this
reflector. Read those and pray no one gets out their soapbox again.


Matt
KD8DAO
http://blog.MattIsKichigai.com



On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Buller wrote:
>>
>>  Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector
>> "junk" that cannot be fixed?
>>
> Maybe I should explain my point.
> S-meter, too coars since it can only show a 6 dB change.
> It´s been reported on this reflector that it was impossible
> to rectify/change that, i e to get better resolution more
> data points has to be produced by the radio.
> So bottom line, an S-meter that coarse IMO is junk, sorry
> but it´s my opinion.
> 12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
> come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.
> This probably could be fixed, i e modify it for another type
> connector.
>
> And yes the K3 has a few other issues also but as I did say
> before nothing in life is perfect, I still love my K3 and
> would not like to be without it.
>
> 73 Jim SM2EKM
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Jan Erik Holm]

Lee Buller wrote:
 
Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector 
"junk" that cannot be fixed?



Maybe I should explain my point.
S-meter, too coars since it can only show a 6 dB change.
It´s been reported on this reflector that it was impossible
to rectify/change that, i e to get better resolution more
data points has to be produced by the radio.
So bottom line, an S-meter that coarse IMO is junk, sorry
but it´s my opinion.
12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.
This probably could be fixed, i e modify it for another type
connector.

And yes the K3 has a few other issues also but as I did say
before nothing in life is perfect, I still love my K3 and
would not like to be without it.

73 Jim SM2EKM


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RE: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Lee, 

> Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter 

Because some people do not understand the difference between an 
amateur transceiver and a $10,000 piece laboratory test equipment. 
The K3's S-meter circuit is derived form the IF DSP and provides 
a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps.  It does not 
provide an analog voltage with infinite resolution.  

> and the power connector "junk" that cannot be fixed?

The power connector is an Anderson PowerPole and some people 
(unfairly) object to the use PowerPole connectors. 

In "liberal arts" terms, there are always those who expect a 
Ferrari or Maserati for the same price as a Chevrolet Cobalt. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Buller
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:22 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ladies and Gents.
> 
> I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance 
> of the K3 and the S-Meter thread of the K3.  Could someone 
> explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not an engineering type)  
> what the issues are here and why they are issues with this 
> radio?  Maybe, I'm lost in all the hullabaloo.
> 
> Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power 
> connector "junk" that cannot be fixed?
> 
> Thank you for the education.
> 
> Lee Buller - K0WA
> K3 SN 443
> K2 SN 1056
> 
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short 
> supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common 
> Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for 
> help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Lee,

   Don't know about the connector issues (I suppose that might be a 
matter of personal preference). The S-Meter issue has to do with "fine" 
adjustments. Since the meter is a bar graph type, "blocks" are either 
lit or not. If, for instance, you are attempting to "see" the difference 
between 4.3 blocks and 4.4 blocks, they display the same (either 4 or 5 
blocks, depending on software design). Apparently, this design issue is 
also in the data given to a control computer. That is, instead of giving 
a "value" (i.e., 4.321), it is just mimicking the bar graph (i.e., 4 
"blocks"). So, if you're trying to make a comparative measurement 
between similar signals, unless they "happen" to be on the "edge" of two 
"block" values, they will look the same. While this is normal for this 
type of display, it is a little unusual for the computer data stream. 
That usually reflects "raw" data. Does that help? {'-)


   Regards,

   kurtt

   Kurt Pawlikowski, AKA WB9FMC
   The Pinrod Corporation
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   (773) 284-9500
   http://pinrod.com

Lee Buller wrote:



Ladies and Gents.

I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 
and the S-Meter thread of the K3.  Could someone explain (to a Liberal 
Arts Major - not an engineering type)  what the issues are here and 
why they are issues with this radio?  Maybe, I'm lost in all the 
hullabaloo.


Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector 
"junk" that cannot be fixed?


Thank you for the education.

Lee Buller - K0WA
K3 SN 443
K2 SN 1056

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If 
you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If 
you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has 
some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?




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[Elecraft] Questions from a Liberal Arts Major

[Lee Buller]

Ladies and Gents.

I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 and the 
S-Meter thread of the K3.  Could someone explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not 
an engineering type)  what the issues are here and why they are issues with 
this radio?  Maybe, I'm lost in all the hullabaloo.

Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector "junk" 
that cannot be fixed?

Thank you for the education.

Lee Buller - K0WA
K3 SN 443
K2 SN 1056

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is 
Common Sense divine?___
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