[Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: "Luis V. Romero" <lromer...@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

In the words of the Immortal Lt. Cmdr. Montgomery Scott of Star Fleet:
"The more complex they make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the
drain."

[pjd] A sentiment I generally hold to quite religiously. Scotty had the
right of it. 

Flex's are nice, they do nice things.  My lowly K3/KPA500/KAT500/P3 station
integrates just fine with anything I have here:  It works in a SO2R
environment with my secondary TS590s managed by microHAM u2R and two
microKEYERs Via N1MMPlus Logger. Radio selection and Antenna switching is a
one button push operation from N1MMPlus.[pjd] 

 [pjd] That's a nice setup, no question. But imagine doing all of that with
one and only one piece of hardware (plus the amp/tuner)? That's the
intriguing part to me. SO2R with one box. But that said, SO2R however it's
done is a pretty amazing feat and my hat is off to anybody who can do it
well.

All of this with a radio and PC I purchased in 2006.  The system will be 10
years old next month. Flex was not ready when I was looking.  They have come
a long way.  Craig K9CT has Maestro in his station.  I'm sure it will be
developed more and more as he and his ops beat on it.  

I'm sure more things are to come from Eric and Wayne.  Time will tell.  

[pjd] I hope so. I would dearly love to see an Elecraft pure SDR far more
than I would prefer to jump into the Flex line. After 14 months I've JUST
managed to figure out enough to be comfortable with my K3S as it is!

[pjd] And to answer an earlier question, I don't *want* to abandon the K3
platform (or Elecraft themselves--I believe in the company whole heartedly).
But I would like to see something with a fresh approach to hamming that's a
direct shot across the bow of the Flex 6700. The single biggest issue to be
overcome is having multiple pieces of software needing to control the radio
and speak to each other. In my case, the K3S, Microham Router, DX Lab
Suite's Commander *and* WinWarbler, a second instance of MMTTY, WSJT-X, CW
Skimmer, N1MM Plus, RCFOrb Server, Win4K3,  and NaP3. I do not believe it's
possible to run everything together and have it all work on the K3. Of
course, my biggest dream is to do SO2R, but that's a long ways out.

 >>But what I have is simple, competitive, reliable and has been, for 10
years now.  And I'm not totally dependent on a computer platform. 

 [pjd] This is where you and I differ. I would rather do all of this through
software, not hardware. Too many wires behind the desk is a recipe for
failure IMHO, and said failure invariably happens at the most inopportune
time. Right in the middle of a P5 pileup or a nice EU run in CQWW. I would
much rather have everything on a RELIABLE computer, tested eight ways from
Sunday and backed up daily (with a 3 week archive), so if something goes
completely pear shaped, it's a brief reload from a known-good backup and I'm
back in business. I'm not tracking down a bad cable that the cat dislodged
or that suffered a mechanical failure in a multi-conductor connector. Then
again, I sit and stare at computer screens for 14-18 hours a day anyways, so
I'm far more comfortable in front of a PC than some.

 >>I'm not that great of an op.  I'm also antenna challenged here in the
middle of the city.  But I win my share. And I credit my K3 station for a
lot of this success.

[pjd] Ditto on all accounts. Just a 70' tower, one antenna per band, wires
for 80/160 and a small RX loop for 160, all on a quarter-acre city lot. One
radio, one 8-port antenna switch, a P3, tuner, amp and computer. Thazzit.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
www.facebook.com/W2IRT





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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: Bill Frantz [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622244...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:53 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

Peter - Thanks for your comments. I knew that ham radio was a 
very big tent, but I didn't know that building a station was a 
goal in and of itself for some hams. My view of the tent has 
gotten bigger. 

[pjd] You're quite correct about the big tent and yes indeed there's a place
for everybody. In my younger days I enjoyed kits to some degree but not
anymore. I prefer to buy high-end gear, good antennas so on, then combine
all that hardware with functional software and squeeze every scrap of
performance out of my station that I can. 

I'm not an emcommer at all, and I treat Field Day like any other contest
(i.e. one (small) step short of a blood sport). I love CW although I'm not
particularly good at it. I dislike SSB due to the lid factor and those few
times I'm on digital it's usually RTTY for HF DX or JT-65 for 6m VUCC grids
or new DXCC entities. I love the thrill of the chase and running in a
contest. To me, any Q longer than about 5 seconds is too long , and
Rate Is King. CQWW and ARRL-DX are the highlights of my ham radio year, as
are the ARRL And CQ 160m contests and DXpeditions to top-10 entities.

My K3S allows me to do *almost* anything I want, but the limitations I've
put forth earlier in this thread are also pretty substantial and something I
was hoping to overcome. My understanding is now a lot clearer, and some kind
of true SDR like a QS1R or similar will need to be added to give me the true
versatility I'm after. And for as much as a Flex 6700 appeals to me, I think
I'm going to stick with what I have until I end up losing too many pileup
battles or I find I'm at too much of a disadvantage in CQWW/ARRL-DX.




- pjd

 

 





-
Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT
--
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: Tony Estep [via Elecraft] 
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622243...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:27 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

-- 
As many have posted here,  it's not hard to do. But even though it's easy 
enough to set up and use, I didn't find it to be an enhancement to my 
normal operation. 

[pjd] I have finally gotten it working but it’s NOT simple and is pretty 
limited given my hardware.

Is it the best option? Maybe not, but it’s one more tool in my shed. Because of 
the limitations of LP-PAN, however, I found it pretty well useless in ARRL-CW 
this year and I just stuck to straight RBN spots. But with that said, I’d 
prefer to have a full local skimmer running to cut down on “false 
positives”—stuff the big RBN guys can copy but I can’t. 


It's true that some find Skimmer advantageous. Bill, W4ZV is a super-op who 
has posted some favorable commentary about the use of Skimmer, and some 
clever ideas about how to get the most out of it.

[pjd] I look forward to reading these. 

If you have a two-receiver radio and a panadaptor, you can succeed in any 
pileup. 

[pjd] I think that fits into the YMMV category, Tony. If you can hear the guys 
the DX station is calling you can see who gets the 5NN and the pattern he’s 
working (if any) within a call or two. In a 20kHz CW pileup that can be 
huge—again, provided there’s prop to you and other callers as well as the DX. 
It helped me bag FT4JA on CW a couple of times and South Sandwich earlier this 
year.
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-
Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT
--
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Bill Frantz]

Peter - Thanks for your comments. I knew that ham radio was a 
very big tent, but I didn't know that building a station was a 
goal in and of itself for some hams. My view of the tent has 
gotten bigger.


I'm a bit blind in the area of automatic radio. I've never run 
CWSkimmer. I don't know of any similar program for voice modes. 
My interests are mostly in emergency services and building 
equipment and using it on the air. I also get a lot of pleasure 
in club contesting at events like field day and CQP. I chase DX 
"because it's there" and working through a pileup with 100W and 
wire antennas is a challenge.


Because of my emergency service interest, I tend to avoid the JT 
modes because they can't be used to send complex messages like, 
"We need 5 units of type O+ blood." Emergency preparedness makes 
me want to be able to send and receive CW without a computer 
because CW gives me the best chance of cobbling something 
together when "the bad thing" really happens.


As far as building equipment goes, I figure that hams can be 
sorted into these groups:


 People who buy equipment to build a station

 People who buy kits to build a station.

 People who build circuits from books/magazines to build a station

 People who design their own equipment to build a station

All of these are legitimate parts of the hobby.

I have a foot in at least every category. I have bought radios 
for my cars. I have built radio kits for general use. I have 
built circuits from books, and I have designed my own automatic 
antenna switch controller and built it from scratch. The people 
I am in total awe of are the ones that design and build their 
own transceivers. Thank, Wayne and Eric and the rest at Elecraft 
for sharing your designs.


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Security is like Government  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | services. The market doesn't | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Tony Estep]

>
> I’m finding out by attempting to get a working Skimmer system
> functioning on my K3S. One should not have to jump through as many hoops to
> achieve this...

--
As many have posted here,  it's not hard to do. But even though it's easy
enough to set up and use, I didn't find it to be an enhancement to my
normal operation.

It's true that some find Skimmer advantageous. Bill, W4ZV is a super-op who
has posted some favorable commentary about the use of Skimmer, and some
clever ideas about how to get the most out of it. But to tell the truth,
after I set it up and used it for a while, I scratched it. It might be
useful in a contest but it was of no value in a pileup. If you have a
two-receiver radio and a panadaptor, you can succeed in any pileup.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Luis V. Romero]

Peter W2IRT et. al.

In the words of the Immortal Lt. Cmdr. Montgomery Scott of Star Fleet:

"The more complex they make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the
drain."

Flex's are nice, they do nice things.  My lowly K3/KPA500/KAT500/P3 station
integrates just fine with anything I have here:  It works in a SO2R
environment with my secondary TS590s managed by microHAM u2R and two
microKEYERs Via N1MMPlus Logger. Radio selection and Antenna switching is a
one button push operation from N1MMPlus.  When I use an amp (which I usually
don't when doing SO2R), its integrated into my computer screen via the
Elecraft KPA Remote application.  My antenna tuner is also displayed on the
screen via the KAT remote application.  I have a programmable keyboard with
a "Jog Knob" that allows me to tune the VFO on EITHER radio from the
keyboard. N1MMPlus allows me to remotely select filters from the keyboard.
My keyboard memory macros allow multiple button pushes and setting changes
with a single selection. I can automatically clear RIT every time I log a
QSO.  I can tune RIT right from the keyboard and tune the rig from the Jog
Knob for S operation.  I can turn on the KRX3 and set splits or diversity
receive all with a single button push of my keyboard macro memory. 

The only thing I currently cannot do is mouse on a peak in the P3 and click
to go there.  Working on that.

All of this with a radio and PC I purchased in 2006.  The system will be 10
years old next month. 

Flex was not ready when I was looking.  They have come a long way.  Craig
K9CT has Maestro in his station.  I'm sure it will be developed more and
more as he and his ops beat on it.  

I'm sure more things are to come from Eric and Wayne.  Time will tell.  

But what I have is simple, competitive, reliable and has been, for 10 years
now.  And I'm not totally dependent on a computer platform. 

I'm not that great of an op.  I'm also antenna challenged here in the middle
of the city.  But I win my share. And I credit my K3 station for a lot of
this success.

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa, FL (ARRL WCF Section)
K-Line - Tribander at 40 feet - 2 Half waves in phase for 40 - Vertical
Dipole for 40m/Diversity receive
#1 SOLP Unlimited - Sweepstakes SSB 2016



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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/5/2016 5:35 PM, JOHN POWELL wrote:

BTW a winning score in the Non-Assisted category of either the major
Contest, viz., ARRL International, or the CQWW either mode, (CW/SSB),
  in my opinion highlights the ability of a Contester. Having a good
setup also counts.


I disagree -- location matters FAR, FAR more than ability or setup in 
ARRL and CQ DX contests. Location is far less important in some other 
big contests, like WPX.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Merv Schweigert]

First off I am no Flex Fan,  and am a happy camper with a couple K3 radios,

K9CT contest station has swapped all their K3 for Flex 6700 and ran a 
couple

contests recently high power multi multi.   You can find some place on the
web or on the Midwest Society of contesters blog about the operators
comments and how the Flex worked out.
They seem to be  happy campers,  so a lot of the Flex problems with
strong signals must have been worked out.  Have seen several pictures of 
the

setup and operators using the Flex.

Not sure where high end op came from,  but do know what high dollar op
means when you see these large contest set ups.

73 Merv K9FD/KH6




Also, I'd bet that the Flex 6700 is not a viable option in a 
multi-transmitter station (or around broadcast transmitters, or with 
one or more close-in ham neighbors)  without serious bandpass filters 
in front of it. Bandpass filters commonly used for SO2R and in 
multi-transmitter contesting stations can fulfill that function.  BUT 
-- those filters are NOT going to be sufficient when the strong 
signals are in-band -- for example, 40M in EU and AS, and on 20M, 
where high power broadcast stations are just outside 20M, but still 
within the passband of most practical bandpass filters. Or in a big 
multi-multi with a run station and a multiplier station on the same band.



73, Jim K9YC



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[Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[JOHN POWELL]

Hi Peter,

The best option appears to be one that has been stated by you on
several occasions to sell the Elecraft K3S and P3 and purchase the
Flexradio 6700 and whatever. Problem solved.

BTW a winning score in the Non-Assisted category of either the major
Contest, viz., ARRL International, or the CQWW either mode, (CW/SSB),
 in my opinion highlights the ability of a Contester. Having a good
setup also counts.

73

John Powell. ZL1BHQ


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Jerry]

Ham is ham, tech is tech. Ham contests should be less about tech and more 
refined to true personal ham skills. Getting the highest contest score doesn't 
mean you won if you NEEDED tech to decode it all. There's a fine line that, 
once crossed, is against the spirit of the hobby in my opinion ( in contests). 

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 5, 2016, at 4:36 PM, Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> wrote:
> 
> From: jermo [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] 
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:36 PM
> To: Peter W2IRT; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S
>  
> The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
> operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a 
> separate category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.
> Just my 2c. 
>  
>  
> [pjd] Not to deviate too far from the point of the discussion, but is 
> mastering the technologies necessary to achieve this success not a skill into 
> and of itself? Frankly it’s pretty easy to sit in the chair with a 
> well-engineered station and run Europe, SA and JA for a weekend, but 
> assembling and understanding a complex computer assisted station that enables 
> you to run (or S) effortlessly, and to do so reliably and in such a way 
> that your “thinking” workload is less at 4am Sunday morning, that’s an 
> equally important skill.
> 
> As I discuss “high end” I’m not talking about dollars spent or awards on the 
> wall necessarily (although they’re a reasonable measure IMHO). It’s the 
> difference between the guy who gets on a few nights a week and enjoys 
> ragchewing with his buddies, maybe does Field Day (for the food and 
> friendship more than anything) vs ops who get on to push their station’s 
> limits as far as they can both in terms of success in awards/etc and 
> automation or at least integration. If that last part is what moves you, then 
> you’re pretty high end. 
> 
> Our K-line gear is wonderfully high performance, I don’t think anybody here 
> would disagree with that, but for guys like me who love integrating pure RF,  
> operator skill and computer technology seamlessly, sadly it’s not as 
> sophisticated as other technologies, as I’m finding out by attempting to get 
> a working Skimmer system functioning on my K3S. One should not have to jump 
> through as many hoops to achieve this, IMHO, and I’m envious of those whose 
> equipment lends itself to that function. 
> 
> And there IS a category (at least in contesting) that’s focused on 
> technology; assisted class. Some folks would never enter in that category, 
> others wouldn’t dream of entering unassisted. We all have fun (or should). 
> I’m just trying to make MY fun a little MORE fun, or at least a little more 
> interesting.
>  
>  
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message ----
> From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> 
> Date: 9/5/16 15:12 (GMT-05:00) 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S 
> 
> I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
> and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
> their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
> K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
> case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
> offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
> comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
> physical interface as much as some ops do.
> 
> My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
> anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
> in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
> them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
> considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
> ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
> computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
> my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
> high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
> those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT
> 
> 
> 
> From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]
> 
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
> To:

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Jim Brown]

That's nice, and some contesters are finding the latest and greatest 
Flex radios a good choice. I think it's reasonable to note that Flex 
didn't really have a serious contester's radio until  they had 
user-friendly software and the Maestro box. The latter started shipping 
this year. In my view, I'd say that the Flex 6700 didn't become a 
serious contesting platform until then. (Not counting beta software and 
hardware).


Also, I'd bet that the Flex 6700 is not a viable option in a 
multi-transmitter station (or around broadcast transmitters, or with one 
or more close-in ham neighbors)  without serious bandpass filters in 
front of it. Bandpass filters commonly used for SO2R and in 
multi-transmitter contesting stations can fulfill that function.  BUT -- 
those filters are NOT going to be sufficient when the strong signals are 
in-band -- for example, 40M in EU and AS, and on 20M, where high power 
broadcast stations are just outside 20M, but still within the passband 
of most practical bandpass filters. Or in a big multi-multi with a run 
station and a multiplier station on the same band.


If I'm not mistaken, the original K3 first shipped in 2008, and was 
updated to a K3S in 2015. K3 owners could get about 90% of that update 
by spending about $800 on user-replaceable boards (figuring two 
synthesizers for a K3 with a Sub-RX, the new preamp, and the new I/O 
board). If you weren't happy with the performance of your earlier Flex 
radio, it cost the full price of the new radio to upgrade.


If the big Flex radio seems like a better choice, go for it!  I'm pretty 
happy with the integration of my updated K3s with my computers and 
logging software (and I was happy before the update). The LAST thing I 
want is my rotators spinning every time I put a new call in the N1MM 
Plus entry window -- if he heard me well enough to call me, or if I hear 
him well enough to call him, I can usually work him with the rotator 
just where it is.  I want that to be my decision, not the computer's!


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,9/5/2016 1:46 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Insofar as I'm personally concerned, I want a radio that has the best
receiver and filtering money can buy, the ability to receive on multiple
bands simultaneously, see a graphic representation of not just every signal
on the band but their calls as well, full integration to my logging software
and rotator, the ability to easily send any mode natively (CW, SSB+voice
keying, RTTY, JT-65/JT-9 and anything else for that matter) and a way to
one-click tune, call and log. To be able to do this with only a couple of
cables and not a rat's nest of wiring is a huge bonus, as is SO2R in one
box.



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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Grant Youngman]

Well, just because you bought a K3 doesn't mean you can't get rid of the K3 and 
buy whatever computer-peripheral-radio you want. Makes more sense than 
grumbling about the bad radio you think you're stuck with. 

I used to be a "high end" operator -- back when I had a Globe King 500b, a 
75A4, and a pencil to handle logging ... ;)

Grant NQ5T

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Peter W2IRT  wrote:
> 
> I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
> and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
> their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
> K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
> case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
> offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
> comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
> physical interface as much as some ops do.
> 
> My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
> anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
> in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
> them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
> considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
> ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
> computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
> my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
> high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
> those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT
> 
> 
> 
> From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]
> 
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
> To: Peter W2IRT
> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S
> 
> 
> 
> Nice commercial. 
> 
> You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
> Which part of that isn't resonating? 
> 
> All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
> operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin. 
> 
> 
> On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: 
> 
> 
>> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
> it 
>> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming 
>> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about 
>> $6,000 on an outdated design? 
>>  
>> 
>> Regards, 
>> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT 
>> 
>> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint 
>> 
>> www.facebook.com/W2IRT 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft] 
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] 
>> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM 
>> To: Peter W2IRT 
>> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this ! 
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
>>  
> =jjZ-l6v7gEI> 
>> =jjZ-l6v7gEI 
>> 
>> 73 Mike 
>> WB6DJI 
>> __ 
>> Elecraft mailing list 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] 
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email] 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   _ 
>> 
>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion 
>> below:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622157.h
>> tml 
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from Skimmer and the K3S, click here
>  ribe_by_code=7622100=bGlzdHNAdzJpcnQubmV0fDc2MjIxMDB8MTcxNzc2NDg3M
> 
>> g==> .
>  iewer=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml=nabble.naml.namespaces.Basi
> 
> cNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template
> 
> .NodeNamespace=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_
> 
>> emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
> NAML 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - 
>> Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023) 
>> 73, Peter W2IRT 
>> -- 
>> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622166.h
> tml
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
>> __ 
>> Elecraft mailing list 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Gary]

Peter,

I do see your point. Whilst not my style of operating, I do understand what 
your trying to achieve.
Makes a great hobby when each of us can have such a varied range of interests, 
yet we all end up the same placecommunicating
Gotta love this hobby
Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Peter W2IRT" <li...@w2irt.net>
Sent: ‎6/‎09/‎2016 6:37 AM
To: "'jermo'" <je...@carolinaheli.com>; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

From: jermo [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:36 PM
To: Peter W2IRT; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

 

The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a separate 
category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.

Just my 2c. 

 

 

[pjd] Not to deviate too far from the point of the discussion, but is mastering 
the technologies necessary to achieve this success not a skill into and of 
itself? Frankly it’s pretty easy to sit in the chair with a well-engineered 
station and run Europe, SA and JA for a weekend, but assembling and 
understanding a complex computer assisted station that enables you to run (or 
S) effortlessly, and to do so reliably and in such a way that your “thinking” 
workload is less at 4am Sunday morning, that’s an equally important skill.

As I discuss “high end” I’m not talking about dollars spent or awards on the 
wall necessarily (although they’re a reasonable measure IMHO). It’s the 
difference between the guy who gets on a few nights a week and enjoys 
ragchewing with his buddies, maybe does Field Day (for the food and friendship 
more than anything) vs ops who get on to push their station’s limits as far as 
they can both in terms of success in awards/etc and automation or at least 
integration. If that last part is what moves you, then you’re pretty high end. 

Our K-line gear is wonderfully high performance, I don’t think anybody here 
would disagree with that, but for guys like me who love integrating pure RF,  
operator skill and computer technology seamlessly, sadly it’s not as 
sophisticated as other technologies, as I’m finding out by attempting to get a 
working Skimmer system functioning on my K3S. One should not have to jump 
through as many hoops to achieve this, IMHO, and I’m envious of those whose 
equipment lends itself to that function. 

And there IS a category (at least in contesting) that’s focused on technology; 
assisted class. Some folks would never enter in that category, others wouldn’t 
dream of entering unassisted. We all have fun (or should). I’m just trying to 
make MY fun a little MORE fun, or at least a little more interesting.

 

 

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone



 Original message 
From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> 
Date: 9/5/16 15:12 (GMT-05:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S 

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 






Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT



From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S



Nice commercial. 

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating? 

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and softw

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: Bill Frantz [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622198...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:27 PM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

OK. Building an AI that would either complete a DX contact or 
compete in a contest would be a neat hack, and probably 
achievable. But, would running it be any fun?

[pjd] Depends on your definition of fun. I'd love to try it, personally. 

Could you be proud of the certificates hanging on your wall that you
gathered using this kind of AI?

[pjd] I can't speak for you or anybody else, but if I assembled and
maintained such a station, absolutely. 

The question I ask whenever a discussion of this nature crops up: where do
you stop the technology clock? Y2K? 1975? 1958? WW2? Marconi-era? If we're
to advance the radio art and the available pool of qualified technical
people what better way than to push the tech boundaries and compete against
one another to test its reliability and our skills? No, it's not the same as
sitting with a paddle and a paper log and a dupe sheet but is that latter
skill advancing the radio art? Fun as hell, you betcha, but is it advancing
the art?

Insofar as I'm personally concerned, I want a radio that has the best
receiver and filtering money can buy, the ability to receive on multiple
bands simultaneously, see a graphic representation of not just every signal
on the band but their calls as well, full integration to my logging software
and rotator, the ability to easily send any mode natively (CW, SSB+voice
keying, RTTY, JT-65/JT-9 and anything else for that matter) and a way to
one-click tune, call and log. To be able to do this with only a couple of
cables and not a rat's nest of wiring is a huge bonus, as is SO2R in one
box. 

- pjd


--- 
Bill Frantz| If you want total security, go to prison. 
There you're 
408-356-8506   | fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. 
The only 
www.pwpconsult.com | thing lacking is freedom. - Dwight D. Eisenhower 

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 .
 
 NAML 





-
Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622210.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Gary]

Jermo,

Agreed. I don't want my hobby to rely on a PC or laptop.
Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but it's my Jurassic world and I prefer to use my K-Line 
as a hands on operator and would not use a term such as high end, mediocre or 
low end etc, I enjoy the challenge of chasing expeditions and to me, using 
skimmer and similar programs  means technology is doing what I prefer to do 
myself. This gives ME a buzz and I feel I have achieved something.
I compete against myself, I don't get upset when it takes a while to get heard.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: "jermo" <je...@carolinaheli.com>
Sent: ‎6/‎09/‎2016 5:37 AM
To: "Peter W2IRT" <li...@w2irt.net>; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S



The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a separate 
category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.Just my 2c. 



Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> 
Date: 9/5/16  15:12  (GMT-05:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S 

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 

 




Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

 

From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

Nice commercial. 

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating? 

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin. 


On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: 


> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
it 
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming 
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about 
> $6,000 on an outdated design? 
>  
> 
> Regards, 
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT 
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint 
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT 
> 
>   
> 
> From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft] 
> [mailto:[hidden email]] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM 
> To: Peter W2IRT 
> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S 
> 
>   
> 
> Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this ! 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106=jjZ-l6v7gEI>
=jjZ-l6v7gEI> 
> =jjZ-l6v7gEI 
> 
> 73 Mike 
> WB6DJI 
> __ 
> Elecraft mailing list 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] 
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] 
> 
> 
> 
>    _ 
> 
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion 
> below: 
> 
>
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622157.h
> tml 
> 
> To unsubscribe from Skimmer and the K3S, click here 
>
<http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: jermo [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 3:36 PM
To: Peter W2IRT; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

 

The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a separate 
category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.

Just my 2c. 

 

 

[pjd] Not to deviate too far from the point of the discussion, but is mastering 
the technologies necessary to achieve this success not a skill into and of 
itself? Frankly it’s pretty easy to sit in the chair with a well-engineered 
station and run Europe, SA and JA for a weekend, but assembling and 
understanding a complex computer assisted station that enables you to run (or 
S) effortlessly, and to do so reliably and in such a way that your “thinking” 
workload is less at 4am Sunday morning, that’s an equally important skill.

As I discuss “high end” I’m not talking about dollars spent or awards on the 
wall necessarily (although they’re a reasonable measure IMHO). It’s the 
difference between the guy who gets on a few nights a week and enjoys 
ragchewing with his buddies, maybe does Field Day (for the food and friendship 
more than anything) vs ops who get on to push their station’s limits as far as 
they can both in terms of success in awards/etc and automation or at least 
integration. If that last part is what moves you, then you’re pretty high end. 

Our K-line gear is wonderfully high performance, I don’t think anybody here 
would disagree with that, but for guys like me who love integrating pure RF,  
operator skill and computer technology seamlessly, sadly it’s not as 
sophisticated as other technologies, as I’m finding out by attempting to get a 
working Skimmer system functioning on my K3S. One should not have to jump 
through as many hoops to achieve this, IMHO, and I’m envious of those whose 
equipment lends itself to that function. 

And there IS a category (at least in contesting) that’s focused on technology; 
assisted class. Some folks would never enter in that category, others wouldn’t 
dream of entering unassisted. We all have fun (or should). I’m just trying to 
make MY fun a little MORE fun, or at least a little more interesting.

 

 

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone



 Original message 
From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> 
Date: 9/5/16 15:12 (GMT-05:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S 

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 






Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT



From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S



Nice commercial. 

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating? 

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin. 


On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: 


> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
it 
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming 
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about 
> $6,000 on an outdated design? 
>  
> 
> Regards, 
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT 
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint 
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT 
> 
>   

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Wes Stewart]

Two separate categories. I am one but not the other.

On 9/5/2016 12:12 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator.


__
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Ken K6MR]

“There should probably be a separate category for folks that use technology 
instead of Personal skill.”

There is: Assisted vs. non-Assisted.

And then there are Sprints. Real “Boy and His Radio”* contesting.

*copyright K0HB


Ken K6MR



From: jermo<mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com>
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 12:37
To: Peter W2IRT<mailto:li...@w2irt.net>; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S



The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a separate 
category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.Just my 2c.



Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net>
Date: 9/5/16  15:12  (GMT-05:00)
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it.






Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT



From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S



Nice commercial.

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written.
Which part of that isn't resonating?

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin.


On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:


> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
it
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about
> $6,000 on an outdated design?
> 
>
> Regards,
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
>
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint
>
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT
>
>  
>
> From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM
> To: Peter W2IRT
> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S
>
>  
>
> Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this !
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106=jjZ-l6v7gEI>
=jjZ-l6v7gEI>
> =jjZ-l6v7gEI
>
> 73 Mike
> WB6DJI
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[jermo]

The Score shouldn't be interpreted as an indicator of skill or a high end 
operator, rather just another set of tools. There should probably be a separate 
category for folks that use technology instead of Personal skill.Just my 2c. 



Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Peter W2IRT <li...@w2irt.net> 
Date: 9/5/16  15:12  (GMT-05:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S 

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 

 




Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

 

From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

Nice commercial. 

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating? 

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin. 


On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: 


> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
it 
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming 
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about 
> $6,000 on an outdated design? 
>  
> 
> Regards, 
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT 
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint 
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT 
> 
>   
> 
> From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft] 
> [mailto:[hidden email]] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM 
> To: Peter W2IRT 
> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S 
> 
>   
> 
> Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this ! 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106=jjZ-l6v7gEI>
=jjZ-l6v7gEI> 
> =jjZ-l6v7gEI 
> 
> 73 Mike 
> WB6DJI 
> __ 
> Elecraft mailing list 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email] 
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> 
> 
> 
>    _ 
> 
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> below: 
> 
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> tml 
> 
> To unsubscribe from Skimmer and the K3S, click here 
>
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ribe_by_code=7622100=bGlzdHNAdzJpcnQubmV0fDc2MjIxMDB8MTcxNzc2NDg3M

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NAML 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023) 
> 73, Peter W2IRT 
> -- 
> View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622166.h
tml
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> ___

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Bill Frantz]

OK. Building an AI that would either complete a DX contact or 
compete in a contest would be a neat hack, and probably 
achievable. But, would running it be any fun? Could you be proud 
of the certificates hanging on your wall that you gathered using 
this kind of AI?


73 Bill AE6JV

---
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There you're
408-356-8506   | fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. 
The only

www.pwpconsult.com | thing lacking is freedom. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

I consider anybody who seriously contests and is a DXer with an eye on #1 HR
and 3,000 in the Challenge to be a high-end operator. Someone who pushes
their radio, antenna system and skills as hard as they can go. I do love the
K3/P3/kPod, but when I see what the Flex 6700 can do natively I have a big
case of buyer's remorse. I don't need knobs and buttons beyond what the kPod
offers so long as everything's controllable in software. I'm very
comfortable staring at computer screens all day long and don't need the
physical interface as much as some ops do.

My point is that with all this wizardry available today for a modest price,
anybody on a conventional radio is going to be at a significant disadvantage
in DX pileups and CW contests for those whose station and/or skills relegate
them to S (sadly, both counts on my end). So long as it's legal and
considered acceptable from the standpoint of contest committees, and the
ARRL/CW awards branches, I want every single legitimate advantage that
computer integration can offer me. The K3s/P3 was a massive improvement over
my old Mark V, but it was evolutionary, not revolutionaly. I consider the
high-end SDR world to be revolutionary and absolutely game changing for
those who are wise enough or wealthy enough to take advantage of it. 

 




Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

 

From: Kevin [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622174...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:45 AM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

Nice commercial. 

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating? 

All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin. 


On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote: 


> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after
it 
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming 
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about 
> $6,000 on an outdated design? 
>  
> 
> Regards, 
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT 
> 
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint 
> 
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT 
> 
>   
> 
> From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft] 
> [mailto:[hidden email]] 
> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM 
> To: Peter W2IRT 
> Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S 
> 
>   
> 
> Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this ! 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106
> 
=jjZ-l6v7gEI> 
> =jjZ-l6v7gEI 
> 
> 73 Mike 
> WB6DJI 
> __ 
> Elecraft mailing list 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] 
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] 
> 
> 
> 
>_ 
> 
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion 
> below: 
> 
>
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> tml 
> 
> To unsubscribe from Skimmer and the K3S, click here 
>

ribe_by_code=7622100=bGlzdHNAdzJpcnQubmV0fDc2MjIxMDB8MTcxNzc2NDg3M

> g==> . 
>   
>

iewer=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml=nabble.naml.namespaces.Basi

>
cNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template

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NAML 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023) 
> 73, Peter W2IRT 
> -- 
> View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Skimmer-and-the-K3S-tp7622100p7622166.h
tml
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> __ 
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-- 
R. Kevin Stover 
AC0H 
ARRL 
FISTS #11993 
SKCC #215 
NAQCC #3441 


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Kevin]

Nice commercial.

You won't be "Skimming Everything" until the software is re-written. 
Which part of that isn't resonating?


All of a sudden your a "high end operator"? I'm a decidedly low end 
operator but I know how to configure my rig and software...just sayin.



On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after it
is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming
everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about
$6,000 on an outdated design?


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

  


From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622157...@n2.nabble.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

  


Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106

=jjZ-l6v7gEI

73 Mike
WB6DJI
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 .
  
 NAML





-
Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT
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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[brian]

Not had any problem either.  The massive pileups this Spring presented 
no display problems.  This good experience goes back for at least 5 
years with several computer systems and a couple sound cards.


Wonder if the birdies/spurious signal problems are due to not doing the 
I/Q equalization or some kind of bad solder joint either.  If you did 
it, do the results look reasonable? (Equalization here is done with a  a 
signal generator with pure output)


The other possibility is that the sound card is being over driven.

The only problem I've encountered is when the DX comes back to a station 
and SKIMMER then spots it on the DX stations frequency.  Watch out for that!


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/5/2016 14:45 PM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

Peter W2IRT wrote

My previous setup for a DXpedition pileup was to put the pileup on VFO-A,
the DX on SUB (locked), and see all the callers on Skimmer's interface.
Find
the guy sending 5NN TU and pounce. The only problem was that everything
from
about 4 to 6 kHz above the DX frequency gets obscured by the
birdies/mirror
images on the skimmer display. And since most big DXpeditions split up, I
would lose a ton of callers in that murky no-man's land. The skimmer
turned
out to be no help at all on some of the massive DXpeditions earlier this
spring as a result. The exception was Heard Island, who were split down,
rather than up. That worked like a champ on a few bands where the pileup
was
insane.


I don't know about the K3S but I've been doing this with the K3 for many
years.  I even wrote a macro for fast setup which I published 5 years ago:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Pileup-Buster-Macro-td6579405.html

It sounds to me like there could be a problem with the K3S's I-Q output
causing your birdies.  FWIW I never had any birdie issues using my K3,
LP-PAN and Audiophile 2496 soundcard.  I still prefer Skimmer's panadapter
because clicking the last "599" decoder dot will QSY your TX to the exact
frequency (within 10 Hz) once the system is calibrated...no need position a
cursor any closer than the decoder dot.

73 & GL!

Bill  W4ZV




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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Wes Stewart]

Exactly!

9/5/2016 7:10 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

"Hi-End Operators": Well perhaps in their view!

Phil W7OX


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Bill W4ZV]

Peter W2IRT wrote
> My previous setup for a DXpedition pileup was to put the pileup on VFO-A,
> the DX on SUB (locked), and see all the callers on Skimmer's interface.
> Find
> the guy sending 5NN TU and pounce. The only problem was that everything
> from
> about 4 to 6 kHz above the DX frequency gets obscured by the
> birdies/mirror
> images on the skimmer display. And since most big DXpeditions split up, I
> would lose a ton of callers in that murky no-man's land. The skimmer
> turned
> out to be no help at all on some of the massive DXpeditions earlier this
> spring as a result. The exception was Heard Island, who were split down,
> rather than up. That worked like a champ on a few bands where the pileup
> was
> insane.

I don't know about the K3S but I've been doing this with the K3 for many
years.  I even wrote a macro for fast setup which I published 5 years ago:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Pileup-Buster-Macro-td6579405.html

It sounds to me like there could be a problem with the K3S's I-Q output
causing your birdies.  FWIW I never had any birdie issues using my K3,
LP-PAN and Audiophile 2496 soundcard.  I still prefer Skimmer's panadapter
because clicking the last "599" decoder dot will QSY your TX to the exact
frequency (within 10 Hz) once the system is calibrated...no need position a
cursor any closer than the decoder dot. 

73 & GL!

Bill  W4ZV




--
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Phil Wheeler]

"Hi-End Operators": Well perhaps in their view!

Phil W7OX

On 9/4/16 9:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after it
is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming
everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about
$6,000 on an outdated design?


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

  


From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622157...@n2.nabble.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

  


Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106

=jjZ-l6v7gEI

73 Mike
WB6DJI


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Clay Autery]

Whatever...  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 9/4/2016 11:29 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:
> Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after it
> is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming
> everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about
> $6,000 on an outdated design?
> 
>
> Regards,
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
>
> DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint
>
> www.facebook.com/W2IRT
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

Exactly. This is why the K3S and any conventional radio that comes after it
is a Bad Decision for high-end operators. SO2R with one box, skimming
everything, using only IP control. Remind me again why I just spent about
$6,000 on an outdated design?


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

 

From: WB6DJI [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7622157...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 12:17 PM
To: Peter W2IRT
Subject: Re: Skimmer and the K3S

 

Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this ! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106

=jjZ-l6v7gEI

73 Mike 
WB6DJI 
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 NAML 





-
Lovin' my K3S (S/N 10023)
73, Peter W2IRT
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Larry Phipps]

Running Router and LP-Bridge should not be a problem at all if Router is 
properly configured. I ran this setup for a long time. Make sure you're 
not asking both programs to create or use the same port. Also, make sure 
both are using the latest major software release from Eltima (LPB and 
Router both use Eltima drivers). I think it's 8.xx. Doesn't matter what 
the minor revision levels are. Sometime Router can be picky about which 
program was installed last because of pointers to the drivers. If you 
installed LPB last, try reinstalling Router again.


I think the other issues have been well covered by others contributing 
to this thread.


Sorry for the delayed response. I get the Digest version of the 
reflector delivered a couple times a day.


73,
Larry N8LP


On 9/4/2016 2:28 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 09:51:11 -0500
From: Kevin<ksto...@ac0h.net>
To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S
Message-ID:<fb62b399-17ca-84b6-a4e8-2afd6563d...@ac0h.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Should read... Having them on most assuredly will.


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Michael Aust]

Wish the K3S and Skimmer did this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106=jjZ-l6v7gEI

73 Mike
WB6DJI
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[brian]

In fact you can run both SKIMMER and the wider range panadapter software 
off the same sound card.  At least is works in WIN7. YMMV with WIN8 and 
WIN10.

I run SKIMMER and ROCKY simultaneously.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 9/4/2016 13:50 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

From: Tony Estep <estept...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

===
As all the others have pointed out, the problem here has nothing to do with
LP-Pan. Using NaP3, for example, you can have a birdie-free display of
96Khz on either side, if your sound card is up to it and you set up the
software properly. Having tried both setups extensively, I can assure you
that you will get far superior performance from the combo of LP-Pan and
NaP3 than you will get from a Flex. It also is perfectly possible if you
know what you're doing to run NaP3 and Skimmer simultaneously.

Tony KT0NY

[pjd] Except I don't really care about seeing a waterfall or having yet
*another* piece of software (NaP3) open unless it's absolutely required.
What I want is a box in the background to do the decoding of ~100 kHz worth
of signals at the bottom of the band my K3S is tuned to, feed the output of
that box into Skimmer and have the callsigns displayed on the N1MM+ bandmap
during contests. As I indicated earlier, I'm behind a mountain to Europe and
roughly half the RBN spots that get sent to my station aren't copyable or
aren't there, etc. A live local Skimmer will tell me what is coming to my
antenna and will save me time when I'm S, going only to known, copied
callsigns.

For finding the winning callsigns in a DXpedition pileup, just looking at
the Skimmer interface ought to be able to do that for me, no? I don't see
what NaP3 brings to the table in that regard.

My previous setup for a DXpedition pileup was to put the pileup on VFO-A,
the DX on SUB (locked), and see all the callers on Skimmer's interface. Find
the guy sending 5NN TU and pounce. The only problem was that everything from
about 4 to 6 kHz above the DX frequency gets obscured by the birdies/mirror
images on the skimmer display. And since most big DXpeditions split up, I
would lose a ton of callers in that murky no-man's land. The skimmer turned
out to be no help at all on some of the massive DXpeditions earlier this
spring as a result. The exception was Heard Island, who were split down,
rather than up. That worked like a champ on a few bands where the pileup was
insane.

I'm quite intrigued by the SDRplay box, and if anybody's using one I'd be
most grateful if they could contact me directly. If that can give me the
result I'm looking for (decoding the bottom of the currently tuned band),
then that's my next purchase.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

73,
Peter, W2IRT

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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

From: Tony Estep <estept...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

===
As all the others have pointed out, the problem here has nothing to do with
LP-Pan. Using NaP3, for example, you can have a birdie-free display of
96Khz on either side, if your sound card is up to it and you set up the
software properly. Having tried both setups extensively, I can assure you
that you will get far superior performance from the combo of LP-Pan and
NaP3 than you will get from a Flex. It also is perfectly possible if you
know what you're doing to run NaP3 and Skimmer simultaneously.

Tony KT0NY

[pjd] Except I don't really care about seeing a waterfall or having yet
*another* piece of software (NaP3) open unless it's absolutely required.
What I want is a box in the background to do the decoding of ~100 kHz worth
of signals at the bottom of the band my K3S is tuned to, feed the output of
that box into Skimmer and have the callsigns displayed on the N1MM+ bandmap
during contests. As I indicated earlier, I'm behind a mountain to Europe and
roughly half the RBN spots that get sent to my station aren't copyable or
aren't there, etc. A live local Skimmer will tell me what is coming to my
antenna and will save me time when I'm S, going only to known, copied
callsigns.

For finding the winning callsigns in a DXpedition pileup, just looking at
the Skimmer interface ought to be able to do that for me, no? I don't see
what NaP3 brings to the table in that regard. 

My previous setup for a DXpedition pileup was to put the pileup on VFO-A,
the DX on SUB (locked), and see all the callers on Skimmer's interface. Find
the guy sending 5NN TU and pounce. The only problem was that everything from
about 4 to 6 kHz above the DX frequency gets obscured by the birdies/mirror
images on the skimmer display. And since most big DXpeditions split up, I
would lose a ton of callers in that murky no-man's land. The skimmer turned
out to be no help at all on some of the massive DXpeditions earlier this
spring as a result. The exception was Heard Island, who were split down,
rather than up. That worked like a champ on a few bands where the pileup was
insane.

I'm quite intrigued by the SDRplay box, and if anybody's using one I'd be
most grateful if they could contact me directly. If that can give me the
result I'm looking for (decoding the bottom of the currently tuned band),
then that's my next purchase.

Thanks again to everyone for your help. 

73,
Peter, W2IRT

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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Tony Estep]

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> It is not LP-Pan...

===
As all the others have pointed out, the problem here has nothing to do with
LP-Pan. Using NaP3, for example, you can have a birdie-free display of
96Khz on either side, if your sound card is up to it and you set up the
software properly. Having tried both setups extensively, I can assure you
that you will get far superior performance from the combo of LP-Pan and
NaP3 than you will get from a Flex. It also is perfectly possible if you
know what you're doing to run NaP3 and Skimmer simultaneously.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I assume the K3S also has the RX IN/OUT jacks of the K3.  In that case 
you can put a splitter in the line from RX out, and feed one leg back 
through RX IN.  Then, any time you select the RX antenna from the front 
panel you will send all signals from the antenna both to the K23S and to 
a separate SDR, albeit with about a 3.5 dB loss in each signal.


To achieve what you want, I suggest looking at the WaterfallBandmap by 
Steve London, N2IC.  It is a free app that can be downloaded from 
.  I won't try to replicate the 
very good documentation in the zipfile, but I believe it accomplishes 
everything you would want in terms of integration among CW Skimmer, your 
radio, and N1MM+. It incorporates a separate clickable waterfall/bandmap 
that tracks with your radio.


Anyhow, have a look.  Steve heartily recommends the $149 SDRPlay SDR 
, which eliminates need for a sound card to be in the 
loop as well as a lot of the problems with images that involving as 
sound card brings into the mix..


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 9/2/2016 8:19 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


If you expect 100 KHz (more than 22 KHz) with CW Skimmer you will need
to split the receive antenna loop and feed a true SDR (e.g., SDR I/Q, 
Perseus, QSR1, etc or equivalent) tuned to the bottom of the active

band.  See the CW skimmer documentation - any configuration that feeds
skimmer from the IF and tracks the IF offset is limited to 22 KHz (the
operating frequency +/- 11 KHz).

This is a design choice made by the developer of CW Skimmer.  If you
have questions, contact him.

The "direct" receiver configuration does not require/use microHAM
Router.  Other software is used to link logging software and skimmer.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/2/2016 2:01 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Hello all,
With the vast majority of my friends having gone the Flex route 
rather than

the K3, I'm finding I'm at a rather huge disadvantage in terms of CW
operation, and that's Skimmer, which is an absolute game-changer for
everybody who's running it. I just can't figure out how to make it work
acceptably well with the K3S/P3 combination I have here.

I went the LP-PAN route and the birdies/mirror images make that device
wholly unsuitable for me, so I'm back to square one. I don't want to 
spend
another small fortune on interface boxes, but something better than 
LP-PAN
is clearly the answer. I just don't know what it is, what to do once 
I buy
it, or anything else. The big limitation I have is whatever devices 
that I
will need to buy will also have to play well with MicroHam Router 
software,
and in the past that has left my head spinning. This stuff is SO far 
beyond
my understanding I feel as if I've been thrown into the deep end of 
the pool

without knowing how to swim.

Working backwards, let's say the required end result is to have the CW
portion of whichever band I'm on skimmed and calls displayed on my 
bandmap
in either N1MM+ or DX Labs' Commander. Not 22kHz worth of calls 
relative to
my operating frequency, but everything, from .000 to .100 and maybe 
beyond.
If I'm running in CQWW or ARRL-CW, I'm less impressed with what the 
cluster
is showing me and would rather rely more heavily on what my own 
antenna is

picking up.

I have only two antenna feeds on the property: Whatever's selected on 
the
tower or a K9AY loop connected to the RX-in line on the back of the 
K3S. I
don't' have a separate antenna to feed another receiver so I guess 
the idea
is to take signal off the IF from the P3 out, yes? Like I said, I'm 
really
very old-school and I need help getting up to speed with all this 
stuff. I
migrated from a Mark V last year and the learning curve on the K3S is 
still

as steep as Mt. Everest for me. Any help greatly appreciated,
please'n'thanks!

-
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT



S/N 10023

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Help: 

Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Kevin]

Should read... Having them on most assuredly will.


On 9/3/2016 9:39 AM, Kevin wrote:

Bill,

As has been said by others in this thread...any bandwidth limitations 
you get while running Skimmer are because that's the way the developer 
of Skimmer wanted it or was required to have it. LP-Pan display 
bandwidth is dictated by nothing other than the bandwidth of you sound 
card and the software you run to view it. If you're seeing images on 
the spectrum, again, that's a software thing. I'm sure all the SDR 
software out there have procedures to null those out.  It would be the 
same if you went the more expensive SDR's They are all single 
conversion receivers and will generate images.


If you were so inclines you could buy a KX3 and use it. Same basic 
architecture as the high prices SDR's like QS1R and Perseus, RX I/Q 
output straight to the computer. Skimmer would still be limited to + 
or - 22KHz and there would still be images that needed nulling via the 
SDR software.


You have a Zonar 5, good card, 192KHz bandwidth. Using it's big 
brother the U7 (same specs) I get right around 95KHz either side of my 
VFO frequency on the spectrum display. I can plant my VFO on 14.060 
and see the entire CW segment with out touching a thing. I choose not 
to limit myself by using Skimmer. Crank the displayed bandwidth down 
to + or - 5KHz on a DX pileup and it's magical. I can see where the 
last caller was/is in the pileup and can see which way the DX is 
working the pile, up or down, and put my signal in the right spot for 
a call. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.


As for the conflict between LP-Bridge and Router, it's to be expected. 
Two applications which do more or less the same thing fighting over 
control of serial ports. I doubt seriously having both installed on 
the computer at the same time causes any conflict for either. Using 
them at the same time most assuredly will.




[pjd] Yes, this was all done when I bought the LP-PAN and Skimmer. It IS
working as best it can, but it cannot do what I need it to do, and 
that's

why I'm posting here--unless I've completely misunderstood the LP-PAN
limitations. That device seems to only allow me to see something like 
22 kHz

on either side of my tuned frequency. If I'm working at 14.022, that's
great. I can see 14.000 to 12.044. If I'm S at 14.095 I'm kinda 
hosed.


I reiterate, I need to be able to see then entire CW sub-band (or as 
much as
possible), from 14.000 to 14.100 at least. I'd be good with a 96 kHz 
spread
(14.0-14.096), INDEPENDENT of where my 2nd VFO is tuned. I do not 
believe

LP-PAN can achieve this desired goal, but again, I could be mistaken.

  >>Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.
[pjd] That's good, because I don't' want to run any of those. I just 
want

the decoded calls to show up on my bandmap.






--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Kevin]

Bill,

As has been said by others in this thread...any bandwidth limitations 
you get while running Skimmer are because that's the way the developer 
of Skimmer wanted it or was required to have it. LP-Pan display 
bandwidth is dictated by nothing other than the bandwidth of you sound 
card and the software you run to view it. If you're seeing images on the 
spectrum, again, that's a software thing. I'm sure all the SDR software 
out there have procedures to null those out.  It would be the same if 
you went the more expensive SDR's They are all single conversion 
receivers and will generate images.


If you were so inclines you could buy a KX3 and use it. Same basic 
architecture as the high prices SDR's like QS1R and Perseus, RX I/Q 
output straight to the computer. Skimmer would still be limited to + or 
- 22KHz and there would still be images that needed nulling via the SDR 
software.


You have a Zonar 5, good card, 192KHz bandwidth. Using it's big brother 
the U7 (same specs) I get right around 95KHz either side of my VFO 
frequency on the spectrum display. I can plant my VFO on 14.060 and see 
the entire CW segment with out touching a thing. I choose not to limit 
myself by using Skimmer. Crank the displayed bandwidth down to + or - 
5KHz on a DX pileup and it's magical. I can see where the last caller 
was/is in the pileup and can see which way the DX is working the pile, 
up or down, and put my signal in the right spot for a call. It's like 
shooting fish in a barrel.


As for the conflict between LP-Bridge and Router, it's to be expected. 
Two applications which do more or less the same thing fighting over 
control of serial ports. I doubt seriously having both installed on the 
computer at the same time causes any conflict for either. Using them at 
the same time most assuredly will.




[pjd] Yes, this was all done when I bought the LP-PAN and Skimmer. It IS
working as best it can, but it cannot do what I need it to do, and that's
why I'm posting here--unless I've completely misunderstood the LP-PAN
limitations. That device seems to only allow me to see something like 22 kHz
on either side of my tuned frequency. If I'm working at 14.022, that's
great. I can see 14.000 to 12.044. If I'm S at 14.095 I'm kinda hosed.

I reiterate, I need to be able to see then entire CW sub-band (or as much as
possible), from 14.000 to 14.100 at least. I'd be good with a 96 kHz spread
(14.0-14.096), INDEPENDENT of where my 2nd VFO is tuned. I do not believe
LP-PAN can achieve this desired goal, but again, I could be mistaken.

  >>Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.
[pjd] That's good, because I don't' want to run any of those. I just want
the decoded calls to show up on my bandmap.




--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

Pete,

You need to blame the right element.  It is not LP-Pan, but a limitation 
of Skimmer.

It limits the span to 22kHz when operating from an IF derived system.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2016 9:28 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

[pjd] Yes, this was all done when I bought the LP-PAN and Skimmer. It IS
working as best it can, but it cannot do what I need it to do, and that's
why I'm posting here--unless I've completely misunderstood the LP-PAN
limitations. That device seems to only allow me to see something like 22 kHz
on either side of my tuned frequency. If I'm working at 14.022, that's
great. I can see 14.000 to 12.044. If I'm S at 14.095 I'm kinda hosed.

I reiterate, I need to be able to see then entire CW sub-band (or as much as
possible), from 14.000 to 14.100 at least. I'd be good with a 96 kHz spread
(14.0-14.096), INDEPENDENT of where my 2nd VFO is tuned. I do not believe
LP-PAN can achieve this desired goal, but again, I could be mistaken.




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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

Pete,

I think you are mixing too many things together, and they are not
necessarily related.
Let me try to 'unravel the ball of twine' for you.

The birdies/mirror images you encountered are not the fault of LP-Pan, but
instead related to either your soundcard cables or the capability of the
Panadapter display software that you were using.

[pjd] I have tried four different sound cards on a very powerful PC (i7/32GB
RAM/SSD that has tons of processor, drive and RAM headroom, with virtually
nothing running), the birdies are identical with all the different sound
cards. I stuck with the Xonar U5. I've been over the level settings a
hundred times and that's not the issue. I believe I read somewhere that an
xtal oscillator inside the LP is the cause. There is nothing I can do to fix
it.


 >>Since you now have the P3 and are apparently happy with it for the
Panadapter display,  I suggest you continue to use it.
 >>BUT,  you cannot display Skimmer on the P3.
[pjd] I never did. I use the IF OUT from the K3S backplane to the IF IN on
the P3, then use the IF OUT from the P3 (setting the switch on the back to
open that port up) to feed into the LP-PAN.

[pjd] >>Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T
adapter).
[pjd] See above.

Connect the LP-Pan I/Q outputs to your computer soundcard and load 
Skimmer on your computer.Configure CW Skimmer to use that soundcard 
and it will display whatever is within it's "hearing range".  The document
at http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/Files/Skimmerintro.pdf may be helpful
with your setup.

[pjd] Yes, this was all done when I bought the LP-PAN and Skimmer. It IS
working as best it can, but it cannot do what I need it to do, and that's
why I'm posting here--unless I've completely misunderstood the LP-PAN
limitations. That device seems to only allow me to see something like 22 kHz
on either side of my tuned frequency. If I'm working at 14.022, that's
great. I can see 14.000 to 12.044. If I'm S at 14.095 I'm kinda hosed.

I reiterate, I need to be able to see then entire CW sub-band (or as much as
possible), from 14.000 to 14.100 at least. I'd be good with a 96 kHz spread
(14.0-14.096), INDEPENDENT of where my 2nd VFO is tuned. I do not believe
LP-PAN can achieve this desired goal, but again, I could be mistaken. 

 >>Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.
[pjd] That's good, because I don't' want to run any of those. I just want
the decoded calls to show up on my bandmap.

If you need to run other PC applications (loggers and other rig control
applications) that each want to use the COM port connection to your K3 (in
addition to CW Skimmer) - only one application can talk with the K3 at the
same time.  Enter LP-Bridge or Com-O-Com which create virtual ports on your
PC.  IMHO LP-Bridge is a good choice for use with the K3, but all your
applications that want to talk with the K3 will talk instead to their own
LP-Bridge virtual ports - only LP-Bridge connects directly to the K3.

[pjd] LP- Bridge will not work on my system, period. I've tried for months
to make it play and it just won't. It's also probably not necessary for what
I want to do. I get failure after failure, and I'm 99% sure it's conflicting
with MicroHam Router (software I desperately wish I could dispense with
forever, but I can't achieve half the functionality of my station without a
MicroKeyer-II).


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

Thanks Alan,

Yes, by all means ignore my suggestion about using the T adapter and 
connect LP-Pan to the IF OUT on the P3.


Sorry for my mental lapse - I should have been thinking better, 
especially since I set up 2 P3s for the Shelby, NC hamfest this 
afternoon, and knew perfectly well that the P3 has an IF out. That is a 
replication of the IF IN.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2016 7:38 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:

Excellent explanation Don.  Just one thing:

> Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T
> adapter).

No adapter is required.  The P3 has an internal 3 dB splitter and an 
IF OUT connector that can be connected to LP-PAN.  Just make sure the 
rear-panel switch is in the "ON" (up) position.


Alan N1AL




On 09/02/2016 04:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Pete,

I think you are mixing too many things together, and they are not
necessarily related.
Let me try to 'unravel the ball of twine' for you.

The birdies/mirror images you encountered are not the fault of LP-Pan,
but instead related to either your soundcard cables or the capability of
the Panadapter display software that you were using.

Since you now have the P3 and are apparently happy with it for the
Panadapter display,  I suggest you continue to use it.

BUT,  you cannot display Skimmer on the P3.

So 'what to do'? - I would suggest that you use the LP-Pan hardware.
Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T
adapter).

Connect the LP-Pan I/Q outputs to your computer soundcard and load
Skimmer on your computer.Configure CW Skimmer to use that soundcard
and it will display whatever is within it's "hearing range". The
document at http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/Files/Skimmerintro.pdf may
be helpful with your setup.
Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.

If you need to run other PC applications (loggers and other rig control
applications) that each want to use the COM port connection to your K3
(in addition to CW Skimmer) - only one application can talk with the K3
at the same time.  Enter LP-Bridge or Com-O-Com which create virtual
ports on your PC.  IMHO LP-Bridge is a good choice for use with the K3,
but all your applications that want to talk with the K3 will talk
instead to their own LP-Bridge virtual ports - only LP-Bridge connects
directly to the K3.

Hopefully that helps.



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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

If you expect 100 KHz (more than 22 KHz) with CW Skimmer you will need
to split the receive antenna loop and feed a true SDR (e.g., SDR I/Q, 
Perseus, QSR1, etc or equivalent) tuned to the bottom of the active

band.  See the CW skimmer documentation - any configuration that feeds
skimmer from the IF and tracks the IF offset is limited to 22 KHz (the
operating frequency +/- 11 KHz).

This is a design choice made by the developer of CW Skimmer.  If you
have questions, contact him.

The "direct" receiver configuration does not require/use microHAM
Router.  Other software is used to link logging software and skimmer.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/2/2016 2:01 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Hello all,
With the vast majority of my friends having gone the Flex route rather than
the K3, I'm finding I'm at a rather huge disadvantage in terms of CW
operation, and that's Skimmer, which is an absolute game-changer for
everybody who's running it. I just can't figure out how to make it work
acceptably well with the K3S/P3 combination I have here.

I went the LP-PAN route and the birdies/mirror images make that device
wholly unsuitable for me, so I'm back to square one. I don't want to spend
another small fortune on interface boxes, but something better than LP-PAN
is clearly the answer. I just don't know what it is, what to do once I buy
it, or anything else. The big limitation I have is whatever devices that I
will need to buy will also have to play well with MicroHam Router software,
and in the past that has left my head spinning. This stuff is SO far beyond
my understanding I feel as if I've been thrown into the deep end of the pool
without knowing how to swim.

Working backwards, let's say the required end result is to have the CW
portion of whichever band I'm on skimmed and calls displayed on my bandmap
in either N1MM+ or DX Labs' Commander. Not 22kHz worth of calls relative to
my operating frequency, but everything, from .000 to .100 and maybe beyond.
If I'm running in CQWW or ARRL-CW, I'm less impressed with what the cluster
is showing me and would rather rely more heavily on what my own antenna is
picking up.

I have only two antenna feeds on the property: Whatever's selected on the
tower or a K9AY loop connected to the RX-in line on the back of the K3S. I
don't' have a separate antenna to feed another receiver so I guess the idea
is to take signal off the IF from the P3 out, yes? Like I said, I'm really
very old-school and I need help getting up to speed with all this stuff. I
migrated from a Mark V last year and the learning curve on the K3S is still
as steep as Mt. Everest for me. Any help greatly appreciated,
please'n'thanks!

-
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT



S/N 10023

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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Alan Bloom]

Excellent explanation Don.  Just one thing:

> Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T
> adapter).

No adapter is required.  The P3 has an internal 3 dB splitter and an IF 
OUT connector that can be connected to LP-PAN.  Just make sure the 
rear-panel switch is in the "ON" (up) position.


Alan N1AL




On 09/02/2016 04:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Pete,

I think you are mixing too many things together, and they are not
necessarily related.
Let me try to 'unravel the ball of twine' for you.

The birdies/mirror images you encountered are not the fault of LP-Pan,
but instead related to either your soundcard cables or the capability of
the Panadapter display software that you were using.

Since you now have the P3 and are apparently happy with it for the
Panadapter display,  I suggest you continue to use it.

BUT,  you cannot display Skimmer on the P3.

So 'what to do'? - I would suggest that you use the LP-Pan hardware.
Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T
adapter).

Connect the LP-Pan I/Q outputs to your computer soundcard and load
Skimmer on your computer.Configure CW Skimmer to use that soundcard
and it will display whatever is within it's "hearing range".  The
document at http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/Files/Skimmerintro.pdf may
be helpful with your setup.
Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.

If you need to run other PC applications (loggers and other rig control
applications) that each want to use the COM port connection to your K3
(in addition to CW Skimmer) - only one application can talk with the K3
at the same time.  Enter LP-Bridge or Com-O-Com which create virtual
ports on your PC.  IMHO LP-Bridge is a good choice for use with the K3,
but all your applications that want to talk with the K3 will talk
instead to their own LP-Bridge virtual ports - only LP-Bridge connects
directly to the K3.

Hopefully that helps.

73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Wes Stewart]

Why?  And I'm not being factious, I really would like to know the reasons.

 On 9/2/2016 11:01 AM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Hello all,
With the vast majority of my friends having gone the Flex route rather than
the K3,


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Wes Stewart]

My eyes glaze over at the thought of Skimmer, but I heartily agree with Don 
about LP-Bridge.  I use it with my K3s and run my logging program (DXBase), 
SpectraVue (runs SDR-IQ as bandscope), MMTTY, FLDIGI, N1MM, etc.  LP-Bridge will 
also start all of these programs automatically when executed.


On 9/2/2016 4:09 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Pete,
...

If you need to run other PC applications (loggers and other rig control 
applications) that each want to use the COM port connection to your K3 (in 
addition to CW Skimmer) - only one application can talk with the K3 at the 
same time.  Enter LP-Bridge or Com-O-Com which create virtual ports on your 
PC. IMHO LP-Bridge is a good choice for use with the K3, but all your 
applications that want to talk with the K3 will talk instead to their own 
LP-Bridge virtual ports - only LP-Bridge connects directly to the K3.


Hopefully that helps.

73,
Don W3FPR 


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Re: [Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Don Wilhelm]

Pete,

I think you are mixing too many things together, and they are not 
necessarily related.

Let me try to 'unravel the ball of twine' for you.

The birdies/mirror images you encountered are not the fault of LP-Pan, 
but instead related to either your soundcard cables or the capability of 
the Panadapter display software that you were using.


Since you now have the P3 and are apparently happy with it for the 
Panadapter display,  I suggest you continue to use it.


BUT,  you cannot display Skimmer on the P3.

So 'what to do'? - I would suggest that you use the LP-Pan hardware.   
Connect the K3 IF output to both the P and the LP-Pan (use a BNC T adapter).


Connect the LP-Pan I/Q outputs to your computer soundcard and load 
Skimmer on your computer.Configure CW Skimmer to use that soundcard 
and it will display whatever is within it's "hearing range".  The 
document at http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/Files/Skimmerintro.pdf may 
be helpful with your setup.
Note carefully, you do not have to run NaP3 or other panadapter 
applications - CW Skimmer is independent of those.


If you need to run other PC applications (loggers and other rig control 
applications) that each want to use the COM port connection to your K3 
(in addition to CW Skimmer) - only one application can talk with the K3 
at the same time.  Enter LP-Bridge or Com-O-Com which create virtual 
ports on your PC.  IMHO LP-Bridge is a good choice for use with the K3, 
but all your applications that want to talk with the K3 will talk 
instead to their own LP-Bridge virtual ports - only LP-Bridge connects 
directly to the K3.


Hopefully that helps.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/2/2016 2:01 PM, Peter W2IRT wrote:

Hello all,
With the vast majority of my friends having gone the Flex route rather than
the K3, I'm finding I'm at a rather huge disadvantage in terms of CW
operation, and that's Skimmer, which is an absolute game-changer for
everybody who's running it. I just can't figure out how to make it work
acceptably well with the K3S/P3 combination I have here.

I went the LP-PAN route and the birdies/mirror images make that device
wholly unsuitable for me, so I'm back to square one. I don't want to spend
another small fortune on interface boxes, but something better than LP-PAN
is clearly the answer. I just don't know what it is, what to do once I buy
it, or anything else.


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[Elecraft] Skimmer and the K3S

[Peter W2IRT]

Hello all,
With the vast majority of my friends having gone the Flex route rather than
the K3, I'm finding I'm at a rather huge disadvantage in terms of CW
operation, and that's Skimmer, which is an absolute game-changer for
everybody who's running it. I just can't figure out how to make it work
acceptably well with the K3S/P3 combination I have here.

I went the LP-PAN route and the birdies/mirror images make that device
wholly unsuitable for me, so I'm back to square one. I don't want to spend
another small fortune on interface boxes, but something better than LP-PAN
is clearly the answer. I just don't know what it is, what to do once I buy
it, or anything else. The big limitation I have is whatever devices that I
will need to buy will also have to play well with MicroHam Router software,
and in the past that has left my head spinning. This stuff is SO far beyond
my understanding I feel as if I've been thrown into the deep end of the pool
without knowing how to swim.

Working backwards, let's say the required end result is to have the CW
portion of whichever band I'm on skimmed and calls displayed on my bandmap
in either N1MM+ or DX Labs' Commander. Not 22kHz worth of calls relative to
my operating frequency, but everything, from .000 to .100 and maybe beyond.
If I'm running in CQWW or ARRL-CW, I'm less impressed with what the cluster
is showing me and would rather rely more heavily on what my own antenna is
picking up.

I have only two antenna feeds on the property: Whatever's selected on the
tower or a K9AY loop connected to the RX-in line on the back of the K3S. I
don't' have a separate antenna to feed another receiver so I guess the idea
is to take signal off the IF from the P3 out, yes? Like I said, I'm really
very old-school and I need help getting up to speed with all this stuff. I
migrated from a Mark V last year and the learning curve on the K3S is still
as steep as Mt. Everest for me. Any help greatly appreciated,
please'n'thanks!

-
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT

 

S/N 10023

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