Re: [Elecraft] CW, Here I come!

[Wes]

Page 5 in the manual  CW Mode

Wes  N7WS

On 5/31/2022 6:24 PM, Bob Cutter via Elecraft wrote:

Look on menu for sidetone volume


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 7:02 PM, Richard  wrote:

For code practice, I tried plugging a straight key into the “KEY” jack on the 
back of my K3s. I hear a tone when I operate the straight key but the volume is 
low and I can’t change the tone.

How about some sequential help on this?

Richard
W4KBX
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Re: [Elecraft] CW, Here I come!

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I hear a tone when I operate the straight key but the volume is low 

> and I can’t change the tone.

Level is controlled by the MON in CW (hold CMP/PWR).  Frequency is
controlled by "Pitch" (Hold SPOT).

> How about some sequential help on this?

All in the Owner's Manual.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2022-05-31 8:59 PM, Richard wrote:

For code practice, I tried plugging a straight key into the “KEY” jack on the 
back of my K3s. I hear a tone when I operate the straight key but the volume is 
low and I can’t change the tone.

How about some sequential help on this?

Richard
W4KBX



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Re: [Elecraft] CW, Here I come!

[Bob Cutter via Elecraft]

Look on menu for sidetone volume 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 7:02 PM, Richard  wrote:

For code practice, I tried plugging a straight key into the “KEY” jack on the 
back of my K3s. I hear a tone when I operate the straight key but the volume is 
low and I can’t change the tone.

How about some sequential help on this?

Richard
W4KBX
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Re: [Elecraft] CW slow speed

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Josep,

The K3 has a QRQ mode which provides faster QSK and improves the timing
of CW over about 33 wpm. But when the K3 has to shift frequency between 
TX and RX (that is, when RIT/XIT or SPLIT is on, this is automatically 
turned off.


What you may be noticing is not exactly a change in speed, but an 
increase in jitter (inconsistency in speed) when you turn on RIT/XIT or 
SPLIT.


Note: The effect I'm talking about is only noticeable at high speeds 
(over 30+ wpm). Also, it is only a problem on the older K3 that does not 
have the synthesizer boards upgraded to the K3S type. And of course it 
is not a problem on the K3S which comes with the improved synthesizer.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
CWops #5
Formerly K2VCO
https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 05/04/2022 20:51, Josep Torres via Elecraft wrote:

Howdy.!

I have noted that when I switch the RIT/XIT or Split on, the CW speed
is reduced, why that.? Any tip to fix this.? I don’t know if I have
something wrong in the CONFIG or what could be the cause.. Any
ideas.?

Thanks,


73,

Josep EA6BF BUG #256  -  CWops #3072  -  FOC #2182 (ex 1724)



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Re: [Elecraft] CW bands hopping up through 10 m...

[Paul GACEK via Elecraft]

Maybe but with 100s of field activations under my belt this felt different!!

I’m still routing for a spectacular cycle 25.

Paul

> On Nov 28, 2020, at 7:18 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 11/28/2020 5:23 PM, PAUL GACEK via Elecraft wrote:
>> lack of noise
> 
> That probably had as much to do with your SOTA QTH being noise-free and the 
> antenna you were using as to propagation.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] CW bands hopping up through 10 m...

[Jim Brown]

On 11/28/2020 5:23 PM, PAUL GACEK via Elecraft wrote:

lack of noise


That probably had as much to do with your SOTA QTH being noise-free and 
the antenna you were using as to propagation.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] CW bands hopping up through 10 m...

[PAUL GACEK via Elecraft]

Hi Wayne

I did a couple of SOTA activations earlier today in the Eastern Sierras with my 
ever trusty KX2.

I had some voice contacts on 17m to Hawaii and back east that were the best 
quality (clarity, lack of noise) that I have heard in ages. I hope Cycle 25 
turns out to be a gem.

Paul Gacek
W6PNG/M0SNA
www.nomadic.blog

> On Nov 28, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> ...due to both CQ WW and sunspots. Hearing lots of DX as well as stateside 
> SOTA operators at the same time on 10 m. 20 and 15 m are blazing.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Tune Led for Elecraft K2/K1

[rydodd--- via Elecraft]

 Ron's (wb3aal) documentation for the CW tuning indicator is on the wayback 
machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180109195848/http://www.wb3aal.com/Pages/K6XX/K6XXCWIndicatorKit.htm

Richard - K4KRW

   
  
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Tune Led for Elecraft K2/K1

[Don Wilhelm]

Geert,

The kits that Ron WB3AAL (SK) offered were exactly the same kit as Tom 
Hammond N0SS (SK) offered.  Tom passed the baton to Ron for the kits 
some long time ago (2015 or 2016).  Ron added nothing, and in fact 
offered Tom's documentation for the instructions.  One thing that Ron 
did add was the option for an LED in a keycap - the origin of that idea 
was mine, but I never documented it.  LA3ZA did document my work (plus a 
bit more), see 
https://la3za.blogspot.com/2011/05/five-k2-leds-in-buttons.html for 
details.


Unfortunately, stuff stays on the internet for a long time, even when 
the originators have sadly gone SK and their kits are no longer available.


I had frequent email interactions with Ron while he was selling the kits 
- none bad, but always informative.  I built and installed many of those 
kits for my customers.


If anyone would like to "pick up the pieces" and begin supplying these 
kits, I am certain there would be many 'takers'.  I believe FAR Circuits 
can supply the boards, and if that is not possible, Tom's documentation 
has full size board layouts for anyone wanting to make their own boards.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/15/2020 6:25 PM, Geert Jan de Groot wrote:

On 15/10/2020 18:37, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

someone out there still have the kit for CE Tune Led modification for
the Elecraft K2 (or K1) ?
Or any information where is possible to find it ?


Last year, I found a kit offered by WB3AAL and I ordered. Unfortunately, 
I learned later that Ronald became SK in 2018, but the order page was 
still up at the time I ordered and I didn't find his passing on the 
reflector either.



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Tune Led for Elecraft K2/K1

[Geert Jan de Groot]

On 15/10/2020 18:37, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

someone out there still have the kit for CE Tune Led modification for
the Elecraft K2 (or K1) ?
Or any information where is possible to find it ?


Last year, I found a kit offered by WB3AAL and I ordered. Unfortunately, 
I learned later that Ronald became SK in 2018, but the order page was 
still up at the time I ordered and I didn't find his passing on the 
reflector either.


I think many people enjoy the kits Ronald made and I am very sorry to 
have learned that I was too late. At least, if you "find" the kit 
offering, you know not to try this.


73,

Geert Jan PE1HZG
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Sidetone and Line Out?

[Dana Roode K6NR]

Wow thanks Bob.  I thought I was going nuts and wasn't sure where the
sidetone was coming from.  Seems odd that the normal mon control doesn't
affect this but I'm sure Elecraft had it's reasons.

Thanks again, Dana

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:35 PM Bob Wilson, N6TV  wrote:

> There's a special setting only documented in the K3 Firmware Release Notes
>  as follows:
>
> * TX LINE OUT (MONITOR) LEVEL NOW ADJUSTABLE: In CONFIG:LIN OUT menu
> entry, tap '2'  (REV switch) to set the "T=" level (TX monitor). Tap '2'
> again to return to the RX LINE OUT setting.
>
> So if you go to CONFIG:LIN OUT, then tap [2], you can change the sidetone
> (monitor) level.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:24 PM Dana Roode K6NR 
> wrote:
>
>> I typically use a telephone connection for receive audio from my remote K3
>> as its one less dependence on the crummy internet I have.  That broke
>> today
>> so I'm using audio over the Internet using DF3CB REMAUD program.  My CW
>> sidetone is loud no matter what I set "MON" too, and I've even
>> experimented
>> with the "LINOUT" configuration; setting it to 0 removes my receive
>> audio but not the sidetone.
>>
>> It seems sidetone is coming from LINOUT and I've not found a way to reduce
>> its amplitude.  Or I am not thinking about this right...
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>>   Dana
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Sidetone and Line Out?

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

There's a special setting only documented in the K3 Firmware Release Notes
 as follows:

* TX LINE OUT (MONITOR) LEVEL NOW ADJUSTABLE: In CONFIG:LIN OUT menu entry,
tap '2'  (REV switch) to set the "T=" level (TX monitor). Tap '2' again to
return to the RX LINE OUT setting.

So if you go to CONFIG:LIN OUT, then tap [2], you can change the sidetone
(monitor) level.

73,
Bob, N6TV


On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:24 PM Dana Roode K6NR 
wrote:

> I typically use a telephone connection for receive audio from my remote K3
> as its one less dependence on the crummy internet I have.  That broke today
> so I'm using audio over the Internet using DF3CB REMAUD program.  My CW
> sidetone is loud no matter what I set "MON" too, and I've even experimented
> with the "LINOUT" configuration; setting it to 0 removes my receive
> audio but not the sidetone.
>
> It seems sidetone is coming from LINOUT and I've not found a way to reduce
> its amplitude.  Or I am not thinking about this right...
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>   Dana
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Re: [Elecraft] Groundplane antennas (was: Re: Elecraft CW Net Announcement)

[Rick M0LEP]

On Thu 30 Jul Bill Frantz wrote:
> Steve Stearns, K6OIK has a article in the latest QST about the 
> effect of trees on 160M vertical antennas. It reads like it is 
> the first in a series about the effect of trees on antenna performance.
> 
> It also mentions Jim, K9YC who has some direct experience, 
> living in a coast redwood forest.

I tried operating on a summit covered by a timber plantation; lots of 
tall fairly straight trees fairly regularly spaced. A friend operating 
at the same time from a short distance away near the edge of the 
plantation, and using an 817 and a dipole, made rather more contacts 
than I did...

-- 
73, Rick, M0LEP   (KX3 #3281)

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Re: [Elecraft] Groundplane antennas (was: Re: Elecraft CW Net Announcement)

[Bill Frantz]

On 7/30/20 at 3:43 AM, m0...@hewett.org (Rick M0LEP) wrote:


I've used three radials for SOTA-type activations, with the vertical
element supported by a fishing pole, but only on bands from 20 metres
up, and experience suggests the arrangement works best when set up in
the open. It certainly doesn't work as well when set up on a wooded
summit with lots of straight-trunked conifers all around...


Steve Stearns, K6OIK has a article in the latest QST about the 
effect of trees on 160M vertical antennas. It reads like it is 
the first in a series about the effect of trees on antenna performance.


It also mentions Jim, K9YC who has some direct experience, 
living in a coast redwood forest.


73 Bill AE6JV

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Re: [Elecraft] Groundplane antennas (was: Re: Elecraft CW Net Announcement)

[Rick M0LEP]

Fred K6DGW wrote:
> Yes, one radial is all you really "need,"

and Victor 4X6GP wrote:
> Two radials is slightly less efficient than three or four,

With only one tuned radial you've pretty much got a dipole, just in a
slightly unconventional geometrical arrangement.

I've used three radials for SOTA-type activations, with the vertical
element supported by a fishing pole, but only on bands from 20 metres
up, and experience suggests the arrangement works best when set up in
the open. It certainly doesn't work as well when set up on a wooded
summit with lots of straight-trunked conifers all around...

-- 
73, Rick, M0LEP   (KX3 #3281)

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[Elecraft] Groundplane antennas (was: Re: Elecraft CW Net Announcement)

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

A symmetrical arrangement of radials (which implies more than one) will 
reduce common mode current and high-angle radiation, which are usually 
considered undesirable (although for local QSOs the high-angle radiation 
can be useful).


If you have an unsymmetrical radial arrangement, it's best to put a 
choke at the feedpoint to kill the common mode current. Almost in any 
case there will be some imbalance caused by nearby objects, so a choke 
is a good idea.


Two radials is slightly less efficient than three or four, but not that 
much.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 27/07/2020 5:25, Fred Jensen wrote:
It's a fairly simple antenna.  Yes, one radial is all you really "need," 
a couple more help improve efficiency and increase the BW.  In the olden 
daze [50's], we'd use 3 or 4 and cut them just a little different.  Also 
increased the BW, especially on 10, and in the later 50's, 10 was open 
28000 - 29700, 24/7.  It's really a very forgiving antenna.  The 
radials, with rope extensions are often used as guys as well.  The droop 
angle will affect the main lobe elevation somewhat, but I'll bet I could 
do a blind "taste" test with you and you'd never really know the 
difference.  That angle is more often used to adjust the impedance at 
the feed point.


Make that angle 90 deg and you have a vertical half-wave dipole 
center-fed out of phase.  Make the elements 1/2 wave each, mechanically 
easy on 10 and even 15, and cophase feed them in the center, and you 
have a Franklin vertical [see KFBK, one of the last ones I know of]. 
Very versatile basic design, works great, lasts a long time.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/26/2020 3:38 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
The reading I've done says only one radial is required; that the 
'favoring' in the direction of the radial is not enough to be worried 
about; that there is no cancellation from opposing (or just more) 
radials.  I have used a single radial ground plane and found this to 
be true (at 6' over dirt on 80M).  It favors a morning net 800 miles 
away, yet worked DX in any other direction easily (then I moved to a 
rotating dipole at 60' which beats it out).  That ground plane easily 
beat out a horizontal dipole I used before them all (fixed, in the 
'wrong' angle because of tree location).


Both the radiator and radial are tuned (equally), but the angle of 
difference from dipole to the traditional 90 deg ground plane will 
cause the resistance to vary (roughly 72 ohms as a dipole, dropping to 
~50 ohms when at 90 degrees),  So if another angle is chosen (inverted 
Y), to match a 50 ohm feedline (to have a 1:1 SWR), the element 
lengths are adjusted equally until that match is made; altering the 
resonance of the wires (maximum transfer of energy).  And inverted Y 
antenna would be between that 50-72 ohm range, still acceptably low 
SWR to not mess with.


Which again, is not a significant variance, so put it up, try it out 
and compare to other antennas.  Wire is cheap enough to play with and 
try things out.


Modeling will demonstrate the pattern and 'take off' angles quite 
clearly; reality is often different because of local objects, ground 
resistance, height...


Don't forget to add a common mode current choke at the feed.

73,
Rick NK7I



On 7/26/2020 11:57 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Fred,

That would be correct if they are oriented at 180 degrees from each 
other so as to cancel the horizontal radiation.  Elevated radials 
must be tuned to be effective, but only 2 are needed. How much tuning 
will depend on the height above ground.


73,
Don W3FPR



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Barry]

Try some ATT.

Barry W2UP



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[George Winship, NC5G]

 

Is your NB on? If it is, turn it off and see if it helps.

73, George




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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Wes,

All I know is that increasing the AGC threshold and setting the slope to 
something other than the default will help.  I don't know where the 
non-linerity is happening, and I suspect something more is going on than 
just non-linearity.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 8:09 PM, Wes wrote:
Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of 
RF (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell 
what difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC 
circuit or a manual control?  Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 
dB. What's non-linear about that?



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Dave Sublette]

Well I didn't see what band it was on.  If below 20M, the preamp should be
off and maybe attenuator on.  Also the RF gain should be backed off.

Dave, K4TO

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:24 PM Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Dave,
>
> Yes, it applies to the K3/K3S, KX2 and KX3.
> Try it, it works.  I don't know if it will cure the particular CW Mush
> that you are hearing, but it is a good starting point.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/2/2020 6:44 PM, Tom NB5Q wrote:
> > Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
> > K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've  missed along
> the
> > way?
> > Thanks,
> > Tom NB5Q
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> >> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
> >>
> >> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> >> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do
> >> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
> >> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Dave  AB7E
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> >>> My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard
> to
> >>> deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pete, W1RM
> >>>
> >>> w...@comcast.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

Yes, it applies to the K3/K3S, KX2 and KX3.
Try it, it works.  I don't know if it will cure the particular CW Mush 
that you are hearing, but it is a good starting point.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 6:44 PM, Tom NB5Q wrote:

Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've  missed along the
way?
Thanks,
Tom NB5Q

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert  wrote:




What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.

AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do
the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
signals very close to each other within the receive passband.

73,
Dave  AB7E


On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:

My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?





Pete, W1RM

w...@comcast.net



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Peter Chamalian]

Thanks Bob.  I set my AGC SLP to 5 and thr to 14 and it helps.  I’ll have to 
play with your values and see if it’s better.

 

My RF gain is at 3 o’clock.

 

 

Pete, W1RM

w...@comcast.net

 

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV  
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2020 8:34 PM
To: Peter Chamalian 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

 

See also

 

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

73,
Bob, N6TV

 

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 2:34 PM Peter Chamalian mailto:w...@comcast.net> > wrote:

My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?





Pete, W1RM

w...@comcast.net <mailto:w...@comcast.net> 



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[David Gilbert]

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, the answer to your question 
is pretty basic.  There is a kink in the curve where the AGC kicks in.  
Signals that traverse that kink see a nonlinearity.


I set the threshhold pretty high, and I set the slope as low as I can in 
order to minimize the amount of that kink.


Dave  AB7E


On 7/2/2020 5:09 PM, Wes wrote:
Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt 
of RF (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey 
tell what difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC 
circuit or a manual control?  Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 
dB. What's non-linear about that?


Wes  N7WS

On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:



What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I 
use almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.


AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at 
the signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates 
mixing.  Do the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you 
have multiple signals very close to each other within the receive 
passband.


73,
Dave  AB7E


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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Gary K9GS]

Should have signed my call.73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Gary K9GS  Date: 
7/2/20  7:39 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Dick Dickinson , 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush Suggestion - 
Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' isemphasized more than 
'contact.' Really? As ever,Dick - KA5KKT  
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Gary K9GS]

Suggestion - Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' 
isemphasized more than 'contact.' Really? As ever,Dick - KA5KKT  
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

See also

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 2:34 PM Peter Chamalian  wrote:

> My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete, W1RM
>
> w...@comcast.net
>
>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Ted Edwards W3TB]

This is VERY interesting.
I have never even thought much about AGC in my 8-year old K3, so I did that
just now.
I changed the THR to 12 and the SLP tp 003.  Will watch for the difference.
I am really a CW operator here.

Thanks for the good wisdom!

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:10 PM Wes  wrote:

> Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of
> RF
> (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell what
> difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC circuit or a
> manual
> control?  Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 dB. What's non-linear
> about that?
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> >
> >
> > What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> almost
> > the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
> >
> > AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> signal
> > level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do the math
> for
> > the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple signals very
> close
> > to each other within the receive passband.
> >
> > 73,
> > Dave  AB7E
>
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-- 
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Wes]

Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of RF 
(really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell what 
difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC circuit or a manual 
control?  Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 dB. What's non-linear about that?


Wes  N7WS

On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:



What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use almost 
the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.


AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the signal 
level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do the math for 
the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple signals very close 
to each other within the receive passband.


73,
Dave  AB7E


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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Tom NB5Q]

Boy, if I had thoroughly read the original post I would have seen you were
answering a question regarding a K3S! Humbling, and a reminder to slow down
and read the posts! I just wish I had a K4 coming ;-)
Tom NB5Q

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:44 PM Tom NB5Q  wrote:

> Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
> K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've  missed along the
> way?
> Thanks,
> Tom NB5Q
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
>> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>>
>> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
>> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do
>> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
>> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave  AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
>> > My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
>> > deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Pete, W1RM
>> >
>> > w...@comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __
>> > Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Dick Dickinson]

My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to

deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

 

 

Pete, W1RM


--

 

Suggestion - Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' is
emphasized more than 'contact.'

 

 

As ever,

Dick - KA5KKT

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Tom NB5Q]

Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've  missed along the
way?
Thanks,
Tom NB5Q

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert  wrote:

>
>
> What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>
> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do
> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
>
> 73,
> Dave  AB7E
>
>
> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> > My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> > deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pete, W1RM
> >
> > w...@comcast.net
> >
> >
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[David Gilbert]

What are your AGC settings?  I have a K3 with the new synths and I use 
almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.


AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the 
signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing.  Do 
the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple 
signals very close to each other within the receive passband.


73,
Dave  AB7E


On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:

My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

  

  


Pete, W1RM

w...@comcast.net

  


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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Nr4c]

You might turn AGC OFF or experiment with AGC settings. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 2, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Peter Chamalian  wrote:
> 
> My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete, W1RM
> 
> w...@comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Pete,

Go to my website www.w3fpr.com and look at the "Noisy K3" article.  It 
will help you adjust your AGC settings to help combat the mush.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 5:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:

My K3S is turning CW into mush.  Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with.  Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[E.H. Russell]

In computer space 4ms is an eternity. I do wonder what is going on there. And 
also hope the K4 fixes it. Thanks again for the scope shot.

 

Ed / w2rf

 

 

 

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:37 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Cc: E.H. Russell 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

The plot in the QST review of the K3S shows the delay between "key closure" 
(the KEY jack of K3S) and RF out.  My plot shows the delay between "amp relay 
closure" (the KEY OUT jack of K3S) and RF, which is more critical.

 

Most folks assume there will be no delay between KEY closure and KEY OUT 
closure, but there is an extra delay (of about 5 ms, minimum) in the K3S.  The 
same applies to PTT IN closure and KEY OUT closure; that is, there is an 
unexplained fixed 5 ms delay in the K3S, probably due to slow firmware logic 
testing for TX Inhibit or an intentional enforcement of some minimum delay in 
RF output.

 

Most radios close KEY OUT immediately upon key closure of either the KEY jack 
or the PTT IN jack.  The K3 does not; it "hesitates" before closing KEY OUT.

 

I'm also hoping the K4 will eliminate this unusual behavior.




73,

Bob, N6TV

 

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:23 AM E.H. Russell mailto:e...@qrv.com> > wrote:

Bob,

 

Thanks for the scope shot and info. I compared the waveform to the QST K3S 
review, which seems to show a little over 10ms before RF appears. Is this 
because they used different settings?

 

Will be interesting to see how the new radio CW looks in time and frequency 
domains. Also how the turnaround latency is managed.

 

Tks,

73 Ed w2rf

 

 

 

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV mailto:n...@arrl.net> > 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:05 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >
Cc: E.H. Russell mailto:e...@qrv.com> >
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:31 PM E.H. Russell mailto:e...@qrv.com> > wrote:

I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening process 
must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other radios. 
Anything published out there?

 

Ed,

 

Per your request, I am publishing this scope screen capture which plots the CW 
rise time in my K3 with the KSYN3A synthesizer upgrade.  It's about 4 ms from 0 
RF to full RF (2 ms per horizontal division):

 

https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/N6TV_K3_Ser_1494_FW_05.64_TX_DLY_8_CW_QRQ_OFF.png

 

The vertical markers are there to illustrate that CONFIG:TX DLY nor 008  
provides only about 6 ms of RF delay after "KEY OUT" goes to ground, not 8 ms, 
and there is jitter in that delay as well (not shown).  If CW QRQ mode is 
enabled, the delay drops to about 4.6 ms and the TX DLY setting is completely 
ignored.

 

This was discussed here two years ago.  See this post for suggestions on how to 
avoid hot-switching a non-Elecraft amplifier driven by a K3 or K3S:

 

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Default-K3-transmit-delay-may-be-too-short-for-slow-QRO-amplifiers-td7641779.html
  

 

73,

Bob, N6TV

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

The plot in the *QST* review of the K3S shows the delay between "key
closure" (the KEY jack of K3S) and RF out.  My plot shows the delay between
"amp relay closure" (the KEY OUT jack of K3S) and RF, which is more
critical.

Most folks assume there will be no delay between KEY closure and KEY OUT
closure, but there is an extra delay (of about 5 ms, minimum) in the K3S.
The same applies to PTT IN closure and KEY OUT closure; that is, there is
an unexplained fixed 5 ms delay in the K3S, probably due to slow firmware
logic testing for TX Inhibit or an intentional enforcement of some minimum
delay in RF output.

Most radios close KEY OUT immediately upon key closure of either the KEY
jack or the PTT IN jack.  The K3 does not; it "hesitates" before closing
KEY OUT.

I'm also hoping the K4 will eliminate this unusual behavior.

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:23 AM E.H. Russell  wrote:

> Bob,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the scope shot and info. I compared the waveform to the QST K3S
> review, which seems to show a little over 10ms before RF appears. Is this
> because they used different settings?
>
>
>
> Will be interesting to see how the new radio CW looks in time and
> frequency domains. Also how the turnaround latency is managed.
>
>
>
> Tks,
>
> 73 Ed w2rf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bob Wilson, N6TV 
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:05 PM
> *To:* Elecraft Reflector 
> *Cc:* E.H. Russell 
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:31 PM E.H. Russell  wrote:
>
> I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the
> abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this
> really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening
> process must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other
> radios. Anything published out there?
>
>
>
> Ed,
>
>
>
> Per your request, I am publishing this scope screen capture which plots
> the CW rise time in my K3 with the KSYN3A synthesizer upgrade.  It's about
> 4 ms from 0 RF to full RF (2 ms per horizontal division):
>
>
>
> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/N6TV_K3_Ser_1494_FW_05.64_TX_DLY_8_CW_QRQ_OFF.png
>
>
>
> The vertical markers are there to illustrate that *CONFIG:TX DLY nor 008*
> provides only about *6 ms* of RF delay after "KEY OUT" goes to ground,
> not 8 ms, and there is jitter in that delay as well (not shown).  If CW QRQ
> mode is enabled, the delay drops to about 4.6 ms and the TX DLY setting is
> completely ignored.
>
>
>
> This was discussed here two years ago.  See this post for suggestions on
> how to avoid hot-switching a non-Elecraft amplifier driven by a K3 or K3S:
>
>
>
>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Default-K3-transmit-delay-may-be-too-short-for-slow-QRO-amplifiers-td7641779.html
>
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> Bob, N6TV
>
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[E.H. Russell]

Bob,

 

Thanks for the scope shot and info. I compared the waveform to the QST K3S 
review, which seems to show a little over 10ms before RF appears. Is this 
because they used different settings?

 

Will be interesting to see how the new radio CW looks in time and frequency 
domains. Also how the turnaround latency is managed.

 

Tks,

73 Ed w2rf

 

 

 

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:05 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Cc: E.H. Russell 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:31 PM E.H. Russell mailto:e...@qrv.com> > wrote:

I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening process 
must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other radios. 
Anything published out there?

 

Ed,

 

Per your request, I am publishing this scope screen capture which plots the CW 
rise time in my K3 with the KSYN3A synthesizer upgrade.  It's about 4 ms from 0 
RF to full RF (2 ms per horizontal division):

 

https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/N6TV_K3_Ser_1494_FW_05.64_TX_DLY_8_CW_QRQ_OFF.png

 

The vertical markers are there to illustrate that CONFIG:TX DLY nor 008  
provides only about 6 ms of RF delay after "KEY OUT" goes to ground, not 8 ms, 
and there is jitter in that delay as well (not shown).  If CW QRQ mode is 
enabled, the delay drops to about 4.6 ms and the TX DLY setting is completely 
ignored.

 

This was discussed here two years ago.  See this post for suggestions on how to 
avoid hot-switching a non-Elecraft amplifier driven by a K3 or K3S:

 

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Default-K3-transmit-delay-may-be-too-short-for-slow-QRO-amplifiers-td7641779.html
  

 

73,

Bob, N6TV

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:31 PM E.H. Russell  wrote:

> I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the
> abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this
> really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening
> process must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other
> radios. Anything published out there?
>

Ed,

Per your request, I am publishing this scope screen capture which plots the
CW rise time in my K3 with the KSYN3A synthesizer upgrade.  It's about 4 ms
from 0 RF to full RF (2 ms per horizontal division):

https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/N6TV_K3_Ser_1494_FW_05.64_TX_DLY_8_CW_QRQ_OFF.png


The vertical markers are there to illustrate that *CONFIG:TX DLY nor 008*
provides only about *6 ms* of RF delay after "KEY OUT" goes to ground, not
8 ms, and there is jitter in that delay as well (not shown).  If CW QRQ
mode is enabled, the delay drops to about 4.6 ms and the TX DLY setting is
completely ignored.

This was discussed here two years ago.  See this post for suggestions on
how to avoid hot-switching a non-Elecraft amplifier driven by a K3 or K3S:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Default-K3-transmit-delay-may-be-too-short-for-slow-QRO-amplifiers-td7641779.html


73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[E.H. Russell]

Jim,

 

Interesting results, especially the dramatic difference in the FTDX5000 after 
the firmware update. The K3 looks great. Hopefully the K4 will be at least as 
good.

 

Ed / w2rf

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 3:46 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

On 6/9/2020 11:07 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

> The reduction in the sideband levels (what some folks here called 'clicks'... 
> not sure that's a good name for this) varies depending on where you measure 
> it, but in general the sidebands will drop anywhere from 0 to 12 dB-- 
> sometimes less, sometimes more--  when you go from 2 msec to 8 msec rise/fall 
> times. For instance, arbitrarily choosing an offset of 500 Hz from the 
> carrier, the sideband drops by 11 dB for the longer rise time. That turns out 
> to be a fairly typical value. And by the way, in general the sigmoid does a 
> better job than a raised cosine.

 

 

 

I've not looked at the math, but I've measured more than a half dozen radios, 
most with variable time constant shaping, and Elecraft with their fixed 
sigmoidal shaping. The data is here.

 

 <http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf> 
http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf

 

A K3 at 25W (driving a KPA500 to full power) is 50 dB down 230 Hz either side 
of the signal, 60 dB down at 305 Hz. At 40W driving a legal limit tube amp (Ten 
Tec Titan) sidebands at the power amp output are 50 dB down at 235 Hz, 60 dB 
down at 335 Hz.

 

A neighbor's FT1000 Mark V Field was 50 dB down at 665 Hz.

 

Another neighbor's FTDX5000 set for 6 msec was 50 dB down at 410 Hz, 60 dB down 
at 1.05 kHz before the firmware update. It improved to -50 dB at

310 Hz and -60 at 535 Hz after the update.

 

73, Jim K9YC

 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Al Lorona]

I used:

1/(1+exp(-x))

where x = the pulse train. I then modulated a 7 MHz carrier with the result 
(although the results don't care what the RF frequency is, of course).

Al  W6LX


>>>Which sigmoid function did you model, Al?

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Jim Brown]

On 6/9/2020 11:07 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

The reduction in the sideband levels (what some folks here called 'clicks'... 
not sure that's a good name for this) varies depending on where you measure it, 
but in general the sidebands will drop anywhere from 0 to 12 dB-- sometimes 
less, sometimes more--  when you go from 2 msec to 8 msec rise/fall times. For 
instance, arbitrarily choosing an offset of 500 Hz from the carrier, the 
sideband drops by 11 dB for the longer rise time. That turns out to be a fairly 
typical value. And by the way, in general the sigmoid does a better job than a 
raised cosine.




I've not looked at the math, but I've measured more than a half dozen 
radios, most with variable time constant shaping, and Elecraft with 
their fixed sigmoidal shaping. The data is here.


http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf

A K3 at 25W (driving a KPA500 to full power) is 50 dB down 230 Hz either 
side of the signal, 60 dB down at 305 Hz. At 40W driving a legal limit 
tube amp (Ten Tec Titan) sidebands at the power amp output are 50 dB 
down at 235 Hz, 60 dB down at 335 Hz.


A neighbor's FT1000 Mark V Field was 50 dB down at 665 Hz.

Another neighbor's FTDX5000 set for 6 msec was 50 dB down at 410 Hz, 60 
dB down at 1.05 kHz before the firmware update. It improved to -50 dB at 
310 Hz and -60 at 535 Hz after the update.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Fred Jensen]

Which sigmoid function did you model, Al?

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/9/2020 11:07 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

I used to think that the rise and fall times of the CW pulse didn't really 
matter much to the sideband levels; I believed that it was more a function of 
the waveshaping, especially at the corners of the pulse.

But I just ran a quick simulation of a pulse train going through both a raised 
cosine and then a sigmoid filter (because those two have been mentioned in this 
thread) and the rise time definitely does affect the pulse sidebands.

The reduction in the sideband levels (what some folks here called 'clicks'... 
not sure that's a good name for this) varies depending on where you measure it, 
but in general the sidebands will drop anywhere from 0 to 12 dB-- sometimes 
less, sometimes more--  when you go from 2 msec to 8 msec rise/fall times. For 
instance, arbitrarily choosing an offset of 500 Hz from the carrier, the 
sideband drops by 11 dB for the longer rise time. That turns out to be a fairly 
typical value. And by the way, in general the sigmoid does a better job than a 
raised cosine.

Arbitrarily defining the occupied bandwidth as the -60 dBc points of the 
spectrum, and using the sigmoid function with an exponent of -1, the bandwidth 
of the rise time = 8 msec pulse is 420 Hz versus 640 Hz for the pulse with 2 
msec rise time. It's not an enormous difference, but it is something.

Anyway, there's another data point for the discussion.

R,

Al  W6LX



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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Al Lorona]

I used to think that the rise and fall times of the CW pulse didn't really 
matter much to the sideband levels; I believed that it was more a function of 
the waveshaping, especially at the corners of the pulse.

But I just ran a quick simulation of a pulse train going through both a raised 
cosine and then a sigmoid filter (because those two have been mentioned in this 
thread) and the rise time definitely does affect the pulse sidebands. 

The reduction in the sideband levels (what some folks here called 'clicks'... 
not sure that's a good name for this) varies depending on where you measure it, 
but in general the sidebands will drop anywhere from 0 to 12 dB-- sometimes 
less, sometimes more--  when you go from 2 msec to 8 msec rise/fall times. For 
instance, arbitrarily choosing an offset of 500 Hz from the carrier, the 
sideband drops by 11 dB for the longer rise time. That turns out to be a fairly 
typical value. And by the way, in general the sigmoid does a better job than a 
raised cosine.

Arbitrarily defining the occupied bandwidth as the -60 dBc points of the 
spectrum, and using the sigmoid function with an exponent of -1, the bandwidth 
of the rise time = 8 msec pulse is 420 Hz versus 640 Hz for the pulse with 2 
msec rise time. It's not an enormous difference, but it is something.

Anyway, there's another data point for the discussion.

R,

Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Wayne Burdick]

Drew,

We apply exactly the same shape to the sidetone, mute on/off, and mark/space 
transitions in FSK and PSK modes.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Jun 8, 2020, at 6:54 PM, Drew AF2Z  wrote:
> 
> A little off topic but is the sidetone also shaped or is it just a plain old 
> sine wave?
> 
> Actually, I wouldn't mind having the option to select a sawtooth or 
> squarewave for the sidetone. I'm not sure why but it seems to make sending on 
> a manual key better, prompting the reflexes to be a little crisper maybe...
> 
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/08/20 14:38, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> It’s closer to 4 ms.
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
>> elecraft.com
>>> On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:32 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
>>> abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
>>> really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening 
>>> process must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other 
>>> radios. Anything published out there?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ed / w2rf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Alan Bloom 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 3:15 PM
>>> To: E.H. Russell 
>>> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the "good old days" key shaping was done simply by adding a capacitor to 
>>> the key line or equivalent.  That results in an exponential rise and/or 
>>> fall time, which is not optimum, so the time constant had to be set pretty 
>>> slow to avoid key clicks.  Typically 5-10 ms.  10 ms results in "mushy" 
>>> keying, especially at high CW speeds.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Raised-cosine key shaping is close to optimum and is easy to implement with 
>>> a DSP.  It allows faster rise/fall times without key clicks.  I assume 
>>> Elecraft is using something like that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alan N1AL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2020-06-08 12:51, E.H. Russell wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
>>> different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
>>> from the measurement?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ed / w2rf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>>> <mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>  
>>> mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> 
>>> > On
>>> Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
>>> Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
>>> To: David Gilbert mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
>>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector >> <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid
>>> 
>>> shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
>>> modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
>>> Ten-Tec!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick N6IET
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
>>> ab7e...@gmail.com <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Drew AF2Z]

A little off topic but is the sidetone also shaped or is it just a plain 
old sine wave?


Actually, I wouldn't mind having the option to select a sawtooth or 
squarewave for the sidetone. I'm not sure why but it seems to make 
sending on a manual key better, prompting the reflexes to be a little 
crisper maybe...


73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 06/08/20 14:38, Wayne Burdick wrote:

It’s closer to 4 ms.

Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com


On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:32 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:

I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening process 
must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other radios. 
Anything published out there?



Ed / w2rf







From: Alan Bloom 
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 3:15 PM
To: E.H. Russell 
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting



In the "good old days" key shaping was done simply by adding a capacitor to the key line 
or equivalent.  That results in an exponential rise and/or fall time, which is not optimum, so the 
time constant had to be set pretty slow to avoid key clicks.  Typically 5-10 ms.  10 ms results in 
"mushy" keying, especially at high CW speeds.



Raised-cosine key shaping is close to optimum and is easy to implement with a 
DSP.  It allows faster rise/fall times without key clicks.  I assume Elecraft 
is using something like that.



Alan N1AL











On 2020-06-08 12:51, E.H. Russell wrote:

I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
from the measurement?



Ed / w2rf







-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net <mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>  
mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> > On
Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
To: David Gilbert mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
Cc: Elecraft Reflector mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting



Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid

shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
Ten-Tec!



I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.



Rick N6IET



On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com 
<mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
ab7e...@gmail.com <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> > wrote:






You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft





uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine





function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5





msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you





may be careful not to use short rise/fall times when the band is





active, in the past there have been folks on the contesting reflector





who openly admitted they purposely generate clicks by shortening the





rise/fall times to give themselves elbow room.  I will always





appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants the means to

pollute the band.





73,





Dave   AB7E






On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman <

<mailto:rast...@gmail.com <mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > rast...@gmail.com 
<mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > wrote:





I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.









You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a





crowded band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most





of my operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're





often the only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And





conditions are often noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us





operating in those circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit,





which makes it easier to copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in





clicks or thumps aren't going to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft'





weak CW signal is like trying to read a 'crisp' signal that's an





entire S-unit weaker, IMO.









My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!









Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)









Rick N6IET









N4ZR wrote:









Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?





Hi Pete,





Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs





have an exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party





testing bears this





out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall





time





and





a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.





Colonel Sanders closely guards his fr

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Wayne Burdick]

It’s closer to 4 ms. 

Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:32 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:
> 
> I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
> abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
> really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening 
> process must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other 
> radios. Anything published out there?
> 
> 
> 
> Ed / w2rf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Alan Bloom  
> Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 3:15 PM
> To: E.H. Russell 
> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
> 
> 
> 
> In the "good old days" key shaping was done simply by adding a capacitor to 
> the key line or equivalent.  That results in an exponential rise and/or fall 
> time, which is not optimum, so the time constant had to be set pretty slow to 
> avoid key clicks.  Typically 5-10 ms.  10 ms results in "mushy" keying, 
> especially at high CW speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> Raised-cosine key shaping is close to optimum and is easy to implement with a 
> DSP.  It allows faster rise/fall times without key clicks.  I assume Elecraft 
> is using something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Alan N1AL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2020-06-08 12:51, E.H. Russell wrote:
> 
> I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
> different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
> from the measurement?
> 
> 
> 
> Ed / w2rf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> <mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>   <mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> > On
> Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
> Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
> To: David Gilbert mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector  <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid
> 
> shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
> modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
> Ten-Tec!
> 
> 
> 
> I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Rick N6IET
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
> ab7e...@gmail.com <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> may be careful not to use short rise/fall times when the band is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> active, in the past there have been folks on the contesting reflector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who openly admitted they purposely generate clicks by shortening the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rise/fall times to give themselves elbow room.  I will always
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants the means to
> 
> pollute the band.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman <
> 
> <mailto:rast...@gmail.com <mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > rast...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> crowded band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of my operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> often the only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> conditions are often noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> operating in those circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which makes it easier to copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clicks or

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[E.H. Russell]

I suppose shaping of the curve corners removes harmonics introduced by the 
abrupt transitions, allowing an accelerated ramp inbetween. But does this 
really reduce the total rise time to 2.5ms? It seems that the softening process 
must take some time. Wish I had a K3 here to scope against other radios. 
Anything published out there?

 

Ed / w2rf

 

 

 

From: Alan Bloom  
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 3:15 PM
To: E.H. Russell 
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

In the "good old days" key shaping was done simply by adding a capacitor to the 
key line or equivalent.  That results in an exponential rise and/or fall time, 
which is not optimum, so the time constant had to be set pretty slow to avoid 
key clicks.  Typically 5-10 ms.  10 ms results in "mushy" keying, especially at 
high CW speeds.

 

Raised-cosine key shaping is close to optimum and is easy to implement with a 
DSP.  It allows faster rise/fall times without key clicks.  I assume Elecraft 
is using something like that.

 

Alan N1AL

 

 

 

 

 

On 2020-06-08 12:51, E.H. Russell wrote:

I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
from the measurement?

 

Ed / w2rf

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
<mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net>  mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> > On
Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
To: David Gilbert mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
Cc: Elecraft Reflector mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid

shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
Ten-Tec!

 

I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.

 

Rick N6IET

 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com 
<mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >
ab7e...@gmail.com <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 




You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft





uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine





function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5





msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you





may be careful not to use short rise/fall times when the band is





active, in the past there have been folks on the contesting reflector





who openly admitted they purposely generate clicks by shortening the





rise/fall times to give themselves elbow room.  I will always





appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants the means to

pollute the band.





73,





Dave   AB7E






On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman <

<mailto:rast...@gmail.com <mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > rast...@gmail.com 
<mailto:rast...@gmail.com> > wrote:





I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.









You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a





crowded band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most





of my operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're





often the only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And





conditions are often noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us





operating in those circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit,





which makes it easier to copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in





clicks or thumps aren't going to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft'





weak CW signal is like trying to read a 'crisp' signal that's an





entire S-unit weaker, IMO.









My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!









Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)









Rick N6IET









N4ZR wrote:









Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?





Hi Pete,





Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs





have an exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party





testing bears this





out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall





time





and





a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.





Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields





won't reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only





selected firmware monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's





keying envelope coefficients :) 73, Wayne N6KR





__





Elecraft mailing list





Home:  <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>

http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft




Help:  

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Alan Bloom]

In the "good old days" key shaping was done simply by adding a capacitor
to the key line or equivalent.  That results in an exponential rise
and/or fall time, which is not optimum, so the time constant had to be
set pretty slow to avoid key clicks.  Typically 5-10 ms.  10 ms results
in "mushy" keying, especially at high CW speeds. 

Raised-cosine key shaping is close to optimum and is easy to implement
with a DSP.  It allows faster rise/fall times without key clicks.  I
assume Elecraft is using something like that. 

Alan N1AL 

On 2020-06-08 12:51, E.H. Russell wrote:

> I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
> different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
> from the measurement?
> 
> Ed / w2rf
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
> Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
> Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
> To: David Gilbert 
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting
> 
> Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid
> 
> shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
> modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
> Ten-Tec!
> 
> I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.
> 
> Rick N6IET
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com>
> ab7e...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft
> 
>> uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine
> 
>> function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5
> 
>> msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you
> 
>> may be careful not to use short rise/fall times when the band is
> 
>> active, in the past there have been folks on the contesting reflector
> 
>> who openly admitted they purposely generate clicks by shortening the
> 
>> rise/fall times to give themselves elbow room.  I will always
> 
>> appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants the means to
> pollute the band.
> 
>> 73,
> 
>> Dave   AB7E
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman <
> <mailto:rast...@gmail.com> rast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.

> 

>> You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a

>> crowded band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most

>> of my operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're

>> often the only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And

>> conditions are often noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us

>> operating in those circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit,

>> which makes it easier to copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in

>> clicks or thumps aren't going to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft'

>> weak CW signal is like trying to read a 'crisp' signal that's an

>> entire S-unit weaker, IMO.

> 

>> My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!

> 

>> Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)

> 

>> Rick N6IET

> 

> N4ZR wrote:

> 

> Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?

> Hi Pete,

> Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs

> have an exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party

> testing bears this

> out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall

> time

>> and

> a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.

> Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields

> won't reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only

> selected firmware monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's

> keying envelope coefficients :) 73, Wayne N6KR

>> __

>> Elecraft mailing list

>> Home:  <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

>> Help:  <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
 http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

>> Post:  <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

> 

>> This list hosted by:  <http://www.qsl.net> http://www.qsl.net Please help
 support this 

>> email list:  <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
 http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 

>> <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> ab7e...@gmail.com

> 

___

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[E.H. Russell]

I'm used to CW rise times in th 4-7ms range. Is this 2.5ms arrived at by a
different metric? Is the curve added by sigmoidal shaping somehow excluded
from the measurement?

 

Ed / w2rf

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Richard Stutsman
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 1:31 PM
To: David Gilbert 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

 

Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid

shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
Ten-Tec!

 

I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.

 

Rick N6IET

 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert < <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com>
ab7e...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

> You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft 

> uses a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine 

> function) and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5 

> msec, although I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you 

> may be careful not to use short rise/fall times when the band is 

> active, in the past there have been folks on the contesting reflector 

> who openly admitted they purposely generate clicks by shortening the 

> rise/fall times to give themselves elbow room.  I will always 

> appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants the means to
pollute the band.

> 

> 73,

> Dave   AB7E

> 

> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman <
<mailto:rast...@gmail.com> rast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 

>> I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.

>> 

>> You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a 

>> crowded band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most 

>> of my operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're 

>> often the only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And 

>> conditions are often noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us 

>> operating in those circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit, 

>> which makes it easier to copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in 

>> clicks or thumps aren't going to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft' 

>> weak CW signal is like trying to read a 'crisp' signal that's an 

>> entire S-unit weaker, IMO.

>> 

>> My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!

>> 

>> Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)

>> 

>> Rick N6IET

>> 

>> > N4ZR wrote:

>> > >

>> > > Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?

>> > Hi Pete,

>> > Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs 

>> > have an exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party 

>> > testing bears this

>> > out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall 

>> > time

>> and

>> > a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.

>> > Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields 

>> > won't reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only 

>> > selected firmware monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's 

>> > keying envelope coefficients :) 73, Wayne N6KR

>> __

>> Elecraft mailing list

>> Home:  <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

>> Help:  <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm

>> Post:  <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

>> 

>> This list hosted by:  <http://www.qsl.net> http://www.qsl.net Please help
support this 

>> email list:  <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 

>>  <mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> ab7e...@gmail.com

>> 

> 

__

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Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Jim Brown]

On 6/8/2020 9:21 AM, Richard Stutsman wrote:

I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.

You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a crowded
band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most of my
operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're often the
only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And conditions are often
noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us operating in those
circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit, which makes it easier to
copy in noisy conditions,


Because that's not how it works. Keying in all Elecraft rigs since the 
K3 has been carefully shaped for optimum copy AND minimum bandwidth. 
What Elecraft does is FAR superior to those rigs with adjustable rise time.


> My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!

You should ALWAYS run it at the longest rise time setting.

>Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)

Although I worked for Drake doing final test of their first TR3s, I 
can't say that I know what a T4C sounds like. Do you?


73, Jim K9YC
__
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Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Richard Stutsman]

Yes, I would regard a 2.5 msec rise time (using appropriate sigmoid
shaping) to probably be ideal, in which case I would have no desire to
modify or shorten it. I'll bet it will sound even better than a Drake or a
Ten-Tec!

I hereby withdraw my previous request/opinion.

Rick N6IET

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:27 AM David Gilbert  wrote:

> You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft uses
> a pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine function)
> and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5 msec, although
> I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you may be careful not to
> use short rise/fall times when the band is active, in the past there have
> been folks on the contesting reflector who openly admitted they purposely
> generate clicks by shortening the rise/fall times to give themselves elbow
> room.  I will always appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants
> the means to pollute the band.
>
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman  wrote:
>
>> I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.
>>
>> You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a
>> crowded
>> band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most of my
>> operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're often the
>> only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And conditions are often
>> noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us operating in those
>> circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit, which makes it easier to
>> copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in clicks or thumps aren't going
>> to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft' weak CW signal is like trying to read
>> a
>> 'crisp' signal that's an entire S-unit weaker, IMO.
>>
>> My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!
>>
>> Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)
>>
>> Rick N6IET
>>
>> > N4ZR wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?
>> > Hi Pete,
>> > Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an
>> > exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this
>> > out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time
>> and
>> > a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.
>> > Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't
>> > reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware
>> > monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope
>> > coefficients :)
>> > 73,
>> > Wayne
>> > N6KR
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[David Gilbert]

You don't need to generate clicks to have a crisp CW tone.  Elecraft uses a
pretty much optimally shaped waveform (some version of a cosine function)
and if I remember correctly the rise time is only about 2.5 msec, although
I could be wrong about that last part.  And while you may be careful not to
use short rise/fall times when the band is active, in the past there have
been folks on the contesting reflector who openly admitted they purposely
generate clicks by shortening the rise/fall times to give themselves elbow
room.  I will always appreciate that Elecraft doesn't give those miscreants
the means to pollute the band.

73,
Dave   AB7E

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:23 AM Richard Stutsman  wrote:

> I for one would like to have some control over the rise/fall times.
>
> You want the cleanest (narrowest) of CW signals when operating on a crowded
> band or in a contest - unless you're a rare DX station. Most of my
> operations are 22wpm rag chews on very uncrowded bands. We're often the
> only discernible signals on an entire CW band. And conditions are often
> noisy with deep QSB. Why not allow those of us operating in those
> circumstances to shorten the rise times a bit, which makes it easier to
> copy in noisy conditions, when any close-in clicks or thumps aren't going
> to bother anybody? Copying a 'soft' weak CW signal is like trying to read a
> 'crisp' signal that's an entire S-unit weaker, IMO.
>
> My TS-590sg let's me do that, and I love it!
>
> Will the K4 sound as good as a Drake T4C? (Just askin'.)
>
> Rick N6IET
>
> > N4ZR wrote:
> > >
> > > Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?
> > Hi Pete,
> > Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an
> > exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this
> > out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time
> and
> > a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.
> > Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't
> > reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware
> > monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope
> > coefficients :)
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[David Box]

Glad to hear that we can count on the K4 maintaining the excellent CW 
characteristics.  I frequently will look at signals I am receiving 
measuring the transmitted waveform based on what I see on the P3 and it 
never ceases to amaze me about how different brands can be identified 
based on the waveform shape and spectral width, not to mention the 
audible key clicks.


de Dave K5MWR

On 6/7/2020 20:45, Wayne Burdick wrote:

N4ZR wrote:

Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?

Hi Pete,

Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an 
exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this out.) 
Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time and a 
hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.

Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't reveal 
what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware monks--sworn 
to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope coefficients :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[N4ZR]

Good!

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 6/7/2020 9:45 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

N4ZR wrote:

Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?

Hi Pete,

Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an 
exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this out.) 
Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time and a 
hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.

Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't reveal 
what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware monks--sworn 
to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope coefficients :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[David Gilbert]

Thank you.  I'd be really disappointed if the keying waveform for the K4
was made adjustable.  I consider the fact that it is not adjustable on my
K3 to be one of its best features.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:49 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> > N4ZR wrote:
> >
> > Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an
> exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this
> out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time and
> a hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.
>
> Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't
> reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware
> monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope
> coefficients :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Thanks Wayne for the excellent and exceptional clean keying.  

73
Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 7, 2020, at 8:49 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> N4ZR wrote:
>> 
>> Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
> Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an 
> exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this 
> out.) Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time and a 
> hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.
> 
> Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't 
> reveal what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware 
> monks--sworn to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope coefficients 
> :)
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Wayne Burdick]

> N4ZR wrote:
> 
> Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times...?

Hi Pete,

Probably not. We've always been very careful to ensure our rigs have an 
exceptional clean, click-free CW signal. (Third-party testing bears this out.) 
Minimizing the bandwidth requires a very specific rise/fall time and a 
hand-crafted sigmoidal shaping function in DSP.

Colonel Sanders closely guards his fried chick recipe, Mrs. Fields won't reveal 
what's in her chocolate-chip cookies, and only selected firmware monks--sworn 
to secrecy--are privy to Elecraft's keying envelope coefficients :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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Re: [Elecraft] CW rise time setting

[Fred Jensen]

I really hope the answer is "No."  Rise/Fall times and waveshape of the 
RF envelope should be tailored by the mfr for the best signal, not 
adjustable.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/7/2020 6:35 PM, N4ZR wrote:
Will the K4 have options for setting CW rise and fall times, not just 
TXDELAY like the K3?




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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Barry]

If the data is MME format, it should be already compatible as that is 
what CW Skimmer uses from a sound card. I see no point in using the 
compute power of the K4 for anything other than basic processing. It 
should be more efficient and flexible using your computer. For instance 
one of the things I do is use Skimmer to spot what it decodes to the 
Clublog spotting window on Win4K3. This tells me what my antenna is 
picking up. Uing general spotting just tells me what others are hearing 
which I may not hear.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Ted Roycraft" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 12/31/2019 2:58:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer


Why not ask the author of CWSkimmer, Alex Shovkoplyas, VE3NEA what his plans 
are?  I would think he would be a central character in making CWSkimmer 
compatible with the K4.  Wayne, N6KR, has already said that K4 baseband I/Q 
signals would be provided over the ethernet which is all, I believe, that 
VE3NEA needs if he can pick them off the ethernet or if someone else can  write 
software that makes it look like the I/Q ethernet signals came from an audio 
card which is where CWSkimmer normally picks them up.  I would hazard a guess 
that someone from Elecraft has already contacted Alex.  As long as he has not 
signed an NDA with Elecraft, I bet Alex could tell us something concrete and 
maybe end the uninformative speculation that's been circulating.

I go along with K4TAX who says keep CWSkimmer on the shack computer.  Putting 
it on this and that radio is a support nightmare.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 12/31/2019 2:22 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Thoughts on this.I would expect the K4 to be a high performance product in 
both the on air performance and the communications interface performance.   I 
would not expect it to have any embedded applications as there are just to dang 
many;  CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones, and etc.   Everybody has there 
favorites of each of these.

Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what few?".   We all use an 
outboard computer to do station house keeping.  I say keep it that way and every one can then use their 
favorite application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications embedded, then Elecraft would 
have to ship a "crying towel" with every  radio.  There are just those folks that seemed not to be 
pleased, regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis said; "one can please part of the 
people part of the time and all of the people none of the time".Lets just keep the radio doing what 
a radio should do and the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they so choose.

Happy New Year to all

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:

If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be no need to 
implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on the computer that is 
used for control and whatever else. It will be basically like running with a KX3.

73,
Barry
K3NDM



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer vs. i/q

[Mike Markowski]

A great analogy is from Keysight.  In the lab I work in, scopes and 
RTSAs stream i/q.  Keysight software named Vector Signal Analysis takes 
the i/q and can sometimes provide more capability in signal analysis 
than the stand alone gear itself.  Tektronix does similar.  Raw, binary 
i/q is all you need, and I think the Beatles said more or less the same 
thing didn't they??  :-)  (Assuming love == i/q.)


Happy 2020,
Mike ab3ap

On 12/31/19 2:47 PM, M. George wrote:

...With an API to the K4 and the I/Q output over
the LAN, applications that are much better at what they do...

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Re: [Elecraft] CW

[Macy monkeys]

FWIW, I'd rather hear two signals willing to ragchew at 20 wpm than one 
contester at 40 wpm ;)

Happy New Year to all!

John K7FD

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 12:17 PM, Frederick Dwight  wrote:
> 
> N6IET has some good insights.  For sure some methods of learning code are 
> more efficient than others.
> For example, sending letters at a high speed, but leaving more space, or not 
> memorizing the letters 
> from a chart.  HOWEVER many of us did everything wrong and still progressed 
> to high speeds in spite
> of these transgressions.  For example, about 69 years ago a neighbor kid and 
> I strung wires between
> our houses.  We made up our own code, some common letters had many dots and 
> dashes and other
> seldom used letters had only a dot or two.  We also memorized the chart.  
> However we became
> moderately successful in this strange code.  Perhaps 5 years later we entered 
> the Boy Scouts and once
> again memorized the Morse code and passed the tests.  For a short time we 
> could converse in either
> code, but he never moved on to ham radio.  I was the school sponsor of a HS 
> radio club, and one field
> day we did not have enough operating positions, so no problem, some of us 
> just climbed up into a few
> nearby hills and had QSOs with each other and our hacked flashlights at 
> perhaps 12 WPM.  Most of
> the kids had no problem adapting to the light signals and most had zero 
> experience with light.  Several
> times in my 65 year ham career I started learning to read American Morse (the 
> landline code) on a
> sounder, which was easy, but never followed through with this, but even 
> without practice I can still read the sounder
> at least at 18 WPM with “our” Continental Morse code.  The brain is an 
> amazing organ and capable of much
> more than we often realize.  However there are no real shortcuts, so hundreds 
> of hours of operation
> is required for moderate speeds, and many hundreds or perhaps thousands of 
> hours are required
> to become proficient at “HIGH speeds”, which I will call over 45 WPM. Some 
> folks will not be successful
> at speeds more than about 35WPM, but these speeds were seldom required, even 
> when I operated 
> as a shipboard CW op, and also as a land based coastal CW op where most 
> traffic was at 20 WPM or
> less, and seldom over 25WPM.  Rick  KL7CW  
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Ted Roycraft]

Why not ask the author of CWSkimmer, Alex Shovkoplyas, VE3NEA what his 
plans are?  I would think he would be a central character in making 
CWSkimmer compatible with the K4.  Wayne, N6KR, has already said that K4 
baseband I/Q signals would be provided over the ethernet which is all, I 
believe, that VE3NEA needs if he can pick them off the ethernet or if 
someone else can  write software that makes it look like the I/Q 
ethernet signals came from an audio card which is where CWSkimmer 
normally picks them up.  I would hazard a guess that someone from 
Elecraft has already contacted Alex.  As long as he has not signed an 
NDA with Elecraft, I bet Alex could tell us something concrete and maybe 
end the uninformative speculation that's been circulating.


I go along with K4TAX who says keep CWSkimmer on the shack computer.  
Putting it on this and that radio is a support nightmare.


73, Ted, W2ZK

On 12/31/2019 2:22 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Thoughts on this.    I would expect the K4 to be a high performance 
product in both the on air performance and the communications 
interface performance.   I would not expect it to have any embedded 
applications as there are just to dang many;  CW ones, Digital, ones, 
Logging ones, and etc.   Everybody has there favorites of each of these.


Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what 
few?".   We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping.  
I say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite 
application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications 
embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with 
every  radio.  There are just those folks that seemed not to be 
pleased, regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis 
said; "one can please part of the people part of the time and all of 
the people none of the time".    Lets just keep the radio doing what a 
radio should do and the computer keeping the operator happy with what 
ever application they so choose.


Happy New Year to all

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be 
no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside 
on the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will 
be basically like running with a KX3.


73,
Barry
K3NDM



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[M. George]

Amen Bob, I totally agree.  With an API to the K4 and the I/Q output over
the LAN, applications that are much better at what they do, can interface
and get access to everything they need in the K4.  I can't imagine
community support or Elecraft support starting with the question: What
hodgepodge of apps are you running on the embedded linux OS of your K4?
"Well, I'm running a Chromium Browser, a Chess Game, Tetris, a graphical
Rubik's Cube and Spotify for Linux so I can listen to Taylor Swift while
working DX and running stations in a contest."  Why do you ask? ;)

To quote a famous software/hardware engineering quote we all love and know:
"Eventually Elecraft will shoot the software engineers and ship the
product".  It sounds like it's getting close but I'm happy to wait for the
finishing touches for the first release.  Let's worry about running Spotify
on our K4 and listening to Johnny Cash, Megadeath or Metallica while
operating the radio until release #2 of a K4 Linux OS image.  However,
maybe Elecraft should support my favorite Financial Market active trader
program so I can get streaming real-time market data quotes on my K4
display and also NASDAQ Level 2 quotes and time and sales data as I try to
play market maker while operating a contest day trading.  I think we really
need that as an embedded app running on the K4, don't you?  Makes perfect
sense.

Max NG7M

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 12:22 PM Bob McGraw K4TAX 
wrote:

> Thoughts on this.I would expect the K4 to be a high performance
> product in both the on air performance and the communications interface
> performance.   I would not expect it to have any embedded applications
> as there are just to dang many;  CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones,
> and etc.   Everybody has there favorites of each of these.
>
> Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what
> few?".   We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping.  I
> say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite
> application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications
> embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with every
> radio.  There are just those folks that seemed not to be pleased,
> regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis said; "one can
> please part of the people part of the time and all of the people none of
> the time".Lets just keep the radio doing what a radio should do and
> the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they
> so choose.
>
> Happy New Year to all
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
> > If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be
> > no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on
> > the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be
> > basically like running with a KX3.
> >
> > 73,
> > Barry
> > K3NDM
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Thoughts on this.    I would expect the K4 to be a high performance 
product in both the on air performance and the communications interface 
performance.   I would not expect it to have any embedded applications 
as there are just to dang many;  CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones, 
and etc.   Everybody has there favorites of each of these.


Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what 
few?".   We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping.  I 
say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite 
application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications 
embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with every  
radio.  There are just those folks that seemed not to be pleased, 
regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis said; "one can 
please part of the people part of the time and all of the people none of 
the time".    Lets just keep the radio doing what a radio should do and 
the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they 
so choose.


Happy New Year to all

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be 
no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on 
the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be 
basically like running with a KX3.


73,
Barry
K3NDM



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Barry]

If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be no 
need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on the 
computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be 
basically like running with a KX3.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Rich" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 12/31/2019 9:28:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer


The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!

HNY

Rich

K3RWN

On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne



On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the 
best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC 
running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other 
information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 
API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
  Thanks,
73 Ed w2rf




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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[stephen shearer]

OK, I am most likely late to the discussion...

Yes, it would be nice to have all the software under the hood. But, I 
know I am going to need a computer for Fldigi, wsjt-x, and js8call. So I 
might as well add skimmer there (if I want it) too. I don't use skimmer 
now.  I like contests but I want a slower pace.  Beside at my QTH, just 
entering a contest almost guarantees first place (not quite, but 
almost).  I also like keeping my software up to date and by putting it 
"in the box" I will loose that control.  I "see" a USB connection to the 
computer a simple interface.  The LAN connection should provide even 
more capability (1G ??).


Since my shack computer will not be W10, I hope function software for 
the K4 will be Linux compatible (as it has been for K3's).  I moved from 
W10 to "windows" Mint in 2019 and haven't looked back. I have also been 
using a Raspberry Pi with my KX3 for wsjt-x as a remote station (remote 
to living room) and it works very well...


I wish all a Happy New Year (as tomorrow is "January"...)

73, steve WB3LGC


back to my research on a computer for the shack as my KX3 portable ops 
have been using a laptop and I want the K4 to be a fixed station.

I may continue with the Raspberry Pi, to begin, as it works...

On 12/31/19 9:28 AM, Rich wrote:

The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!

HNY

Rich

K3RWN

On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne



On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW 
Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the 
K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app 
negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency 
to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to 
be able to develop such an app.

  Thanks,
73 Ed w2rf



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Rich]

The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!

HNY

Rich

K3RWN

On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne



On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the 
best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC 
running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other 
information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 
API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
  
Thanks,

73 Ed w2rf
  
  
  



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[N4ZR]

Hey, first things first.  Windows 10's market share among 
non-computer-scientists answers this question for me.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/31/2019 8:02 AM, Bayard Coolidge, N1HO via Elecraft wrote:

  I would hope that any such app would be ported to Linux and macOS as well, 
and notnecessarily require Windows 10.
73,
Brandy, N1HO


 On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:52:01 PM EST, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:
  
  This is very much in the plan.


Wayne



On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the 
best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC 
running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other 
information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 
API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
   
Thanks,

73 Ed w2rf
   
   
   



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Bayard Coolidge, N1HO via Elecraft]

 I would hope that any such app would be ported to Linux and macOS as well, and 
notnecessarily require Windows 10.
73,
Brandy, N1HO


On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:52:01 PM EST, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 This is very much in the plan.

Wayne


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:
> 
> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the 
> best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC 
> running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with 
> other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to 
> the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>  
> Thanks,
> 73 Ed w2rf
>  
>  
>  



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Wayne Burdick]

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell  wrote:
> 
> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the 
> best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC 
> running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with 
> other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to 
> the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>  
> Thanks,
> 73 Ed w2rf
>  
>  
>  



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[E.H. Russell]

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the
best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC
running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with
other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to
the K4 API. I'm hoping to be able to develop such an app.

 

Thanks,

73 Ed w2rf

 

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

 

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software
applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose
processor. However, all third party applications will require modification
to run in the K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before
being made available as an in-box app. 

 

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time
whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4
will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

 

73,

Wayne

N6KR

 

 

 

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm < <mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com>
donw...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> 

> Morgan,

> 

> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will
need to run that on your shack computer.

> 

> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.

> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I
can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run
any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver
tasks.

> 

> 73,

> Don W3FPR

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Doug Turnbull]

Wayne, this would be a nice option and one which I would willingly pay a
reasonable price.I hope Elecraft give it serious consideration.
Thanks, Elecraft delivered in time the KPod for which I am grateful and
would not wish to be without.

   73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: 30 December 2019 16:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software
applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose
processor. However, all third party applications will require modification
to run in the K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before
being made available as an in-box app. 

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time
whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4
will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Morgan,
> 
> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will
need to run that on your shack computer.
> 
> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I
can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run
any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver
tasks.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Wayne Burdick]

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software 
applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose processor. 
However, all third party applications will require modification to run in the 
K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before being made available 
as an in-box app. 

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time 
whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4 
will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Morgan,
> 
> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will need 
> to run that on your shack computer.
> 
> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating system, 
> it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I can 
> access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run any 
> other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver tasks.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR



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Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

[Don Wilhelm]

Morgan,

The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will 
need to run that on your shack computer.


While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating 
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. 
I can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load 
and run any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its 
fileserver tasks.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/29/2019 10:33 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:

Is one able to run CW skimmer on a K4. If so what model is best suited for
this the K4 or K4d? Or should i use an RSP2 with out board computer
dedicated to doing skimmer with the skimmer software?

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Re: [Elecraft] CW problem

[rv6amark via Elecraft]

John,Re:  "Anytime I change the mode from LSB or USB on any band to CW it 
starts to send a “dit” without stopping..."Take a look at the plug and jack.  
Be sure there is no damage to the jack, and that none of the plug was left 
behind in the jack.  That happened to me once on a keyboard.  A part of the 
plug's barrel broke off and just happened to short the tip to the shield.  It 
was difficult to see, too. It's a long shot, and may not be what happened in 
your case, but the symptoms are correct.Mark,KE6BB
null
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Re: [Elecraft] CW problem

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

The recommended troubleshooting steps in cases like this is to remove 
everything from the K3 except the power cable and the coax to a dummy load.


With that done, does the problem still appear - if so contact 
supp...@elecraft.com.


If it does not appear, then plug things back in one at a time to see 
which external device is causing the problem.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/4/2019 9:34 PM, John and Rita Freitag via Elecraft wrote:

I am trying to run down a CW transmit problem on my K3s. Anytime I change the 
mode from LSB or USB on any band to CW it starts to send a “dit” without 
stopping and I have to halt it by restoring the configuration. This does fix it 
until I try to switch to CW again; and then, the same story.


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Re: [Elecraft] CW problem

[Michael Walker]

Good morning 

Do you have any external programs connected via CAT control?

Mike va3mw

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 5, 2019, at 6:58 AM, Roy Koeppe  wrote:
> 
> John, I think you may have won the Unique Problem Award with that one. Good 
> luck (sorry).
> 
> Roy K6XK
> 
> 
> I am trying to run down a CW transmit problem on my K3s. Anytime I change the 
> mode from LSB or USB on any band to CW it starts to send a “dit” without 
> stopping and I have to halt it by restoring the configuration. This does fix 
> it until I try to switch to CW again; and then, the same story.
> 
> I recently removed a Kent (straight key plug) and the problem showed up. Any 
> ideas?
> 
>John Freitag, WW4JF
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW problem

[Roy Koeppe]

John, I think you may have won the Unique Problem Award with that one. Good 
luck (sorry).


Roy K6XK


I am trying to run down a CW transmit problem on my K3s. Anytime I change 
the mode from LSB or USB on any band to CW it starts to send a “dit” without 
stopping and I have to halt it by restoring the configuration. This does fix 
it until I try to switch to CW again; and then, the same story.


I recently removed a Kent (straight key plug) and the problem showed up. Any 
ideas?


John Freitag, WW4JF



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Re: [Elecraft] CW decode speed?

[Frank Krozel]

OK figured it out.
After decoding signals (first step) then select TEXT DEC (0) then use “B” to 
select WPM CHK.

Pretty cool.

de Frank KG9H

> On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:35 AM, Frank Krozel  wrote:
> 
> Looking for the instructions on how to indicate the speed of a received 
> station on my K3.
> Looked in the K3 manual but cannot find the speed indicator.
> anyone?  de Frank KG9H
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW with PX3

[Gwen Patton]

I found that any wired keyboard I used would suffer from the same problem,
usually a runaway transmit condition, where new characters got jam-crammed
into the keyboard buffer due to stray RF. This kept the KX3/PX3
transmitting until cancelled manually.

Bluetooth keyboards don't work because there's no way to see a pairing
code, but dedicated 2.5ghz dongle-type wireless keyboard works fine. I got
this inexpensive one from Amazon, and it has zero problems, probably
because it doesn't have a wire acting as an antenna to haul in stray RF and
jam it into the keyboard buffer.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0787G1YFG/

I wish this keyboard would work with my HobbyPCB IQ32 as well as the PX3,
but for some reason, it doesn't. Only an ancient Compaq keyboard with the
PS/2 DIN plug works properly on that machine...and I was hoping I could use
a more compact keyboard for it. So far, the only keyboard that works weighs
four times what the radio does. :/ The PX3/KX3 is far more reasonable and
behaves itself appropriately.

73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:26 PM Bob N3MNT  wrote:

> I am using this one and have not had any issues.
>
> https://www.amazon.de/TeckNet-Kabellose-Tastatur-QWERTZ-Schwarz/dp/B00M75WPKO
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with PX3

[Bob N3MNT]

I am using this one and have not had any issues.
https://www.amazon.de/TeckNet-Kabellose-Tastatur-QWERTZ-Schwarz/dp/B00M75WPKO



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Re: [Elecraft] CW with PX3

[Douglas Dreger]

Can you list which keyboards work well. I am using one that is having issues
with dropped characters, added characters and disconnecting from the px3.



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Decode and Preamp?

[na5n]

Gwen Patton writes:


I do try to have the decode around 3 or 4, but code that'll decode with the 
preamp off doesn't even make the CWT bar flicker with it on.


I copy code in my head but have played with the CW decoder on my KX2 for  
amusement and also at our FD station so the others could see what was being  
sent and received.  A couple were interested in learning the code.  One  
fella brought an MFJ CW reader.  We could not get a "solid copy" on either  
of them except on very strong signals.  With typical band conditions and  
even sorta weak QRP stations, I can get maybe 80% copy - not bad, but not  
100% copy.  I've also found the threshold around 3-5 to be the best, like  
you, though does tend to change from station to station and day-to-day  
depending upon band conditions.



So there's more at work here than signal strength.


The advice on better copy without excessive RF gain is valid.  However, you  
do need that extra gain to properly drive the CWT and decoder on most  
signals, as you noted, even if the signal-to-noise ratio is compromised.   
Tuning and filtering is also important.  I usually set my CW filter at  
25-30Hz for best decode and push the button that sets the VFO to the proper  
offset to center the CWT ... then tweak the VFO just a bit for best  
decode.  Lastly, I have found the decode to work better at 18-20 wpm or  
higher; slower code speeds is prone to triggering on noise.  I would  
recommend tuning where there are no signals - just noise - and set things  
for no false decode from the noise, then tune to the station you want to  
decode.


Hope the above helps.  The decoder can be a good tool for helping you learn  
the code, just realizing you will seldom achieve 100% copy on the decoder  
(and sometimes even by ear!).  I admire you for your desire to learn the  
code.  It takes a lot of nerve to get on the air for those first few QSOs.   
We all remember our first QSOs.  And as we'll all tell you, the best way to  
improve your CW is to get on the air.  Most CW ops are more than willing to  
match your code speed (except in a contest maybe) to give you an enjoyable  
QSO and help you along.


Sorry for the long reply, but hopefully helpful to you and some others.

72, Paul NA5N

PS - email me if you'd like to arrange a sked on the air.  Will use my  
straight key and any speed is fine.

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Re: [Elecraft] CW Decode and Preamp?

[Gwen Patton]

I'll take a look at both of those suggestions.

I do try to have the decode around 3 or 4, but code that'll decode with the
preamp off doesn't even make the CWT bar flicker with it on. So there's
more at work here than signal strength. That's why I asked what I did. But
I'll try to work on technique and see if it's just me being thumb-fingered
or something.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 2:44 AM Gerald Manthey  wrote:

> Gwen
>
> If you hold down the Text Dec button (CWT) button what is your THR set to.
> This is what you adjust for sensitivity for the decode.
>
> Mine is usually set to around 3 and I can decode from s4 to s9. If the
> signal is real weak I usually Adjust the RF gain more and turn the THR down
> to 2 and it will decode fine.
>
> I usually run with my RF Gain set at 3 o’clock all the time.
>
> There is a program that is called MRP40 that decodes almost no matter what
> your radio is set to. One of the best decodeer programs out there. But it
> cost.
>
> I used it at first and after using that and getting on the air it kinda
> self taught me morse code. Hihi.
>
> Ok let me know if you have any other questions or if I can help. I hope I
> understood the questions right and this helps.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gerald KC6CNN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Gwen Patton 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 12, 2018 7:23 PM
> *To: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> *Subject: *[Elecraft] CW Decode and Preamp?
>
>
>
> Please forgive me if this is a FAQ. If it is, just point me to where I can
>
> find the old answer and I won't bring it up again.
>
>
>
> I can usually get the CW decode to work if I can clearly hear the signal.
>
> The CWT bar flashes and the text scrolls, and it gets a lot of characters
>
> right. BUT...
>
>
>
> ...that's only if I have the preamp OFF.
>
>
>
> I've tried using the preamp but decreasing the RF gain. I've tried using
>
> the preamp and the attenuator. I even tried setting a couple of bands to
>
> only 10db preamplification. But if the preamp is on AT ALL, the decode
>
> either never gets a "lock" and the CWT bar is flickering randomly (no
>
> matter what the threshold setting is) with no decode, or the CWT bar is
>
> solid, no flashing, and there's no decode.
>
>
>
> If have the preamp OFF, the same signal will usually decode at least
>
> somewhat, and sometimes excellently. Most of the time, W1AW can decode
>
> fairly easily...though FLDIGI and CWGET seem to decode more reliably.
>
> They'll decode 80-90%, while mush is appearing on the PX3 display lines.
>
> But at least I get something with the preamp off.
>
>
>
> But there's just some times when the signal is weaker and I can't get the
>
> threshold to crack without the preamp. But then I get no decode at all.
>
>
>
> Am I doing something WRONG? Is there some step that I'm not understanding?
>
> Heck, I've seen past entries in the list where some have said they can't
>
> get decode unless the preamp is ON!
>
>
>
> Or is there some known issue with preamp + decode that I haven't seen? Mind
>
> you, my antenna, while not fantastic, is adequate for me to get to Europe
>
> on FT8 at 35 watts. I even got from Philly to Fargo on 50w FT8 on 30
>
> meters, using an indoor magnetic loop I built. So it's not my antennas. I
>
> have signal, but paradoxically, when the signal is strengthened by the
>
> preamp, I get lower decode performance. I'd expect that in high-noise
>
> conditions -- amplifying the noise as well as the signal and hashing them
>
> both -- but when the noise floor is low and the signal is just made more
>
> solid with the preamp, I should be able to decode it with the same
>
> technique as when I use it on a stronger signal without the preamp.
>
> Shouldn't I? Or am I simply not grasping some fundamental issue? I've read
>
> the manual, I've read mailing list archive messages, I've experimented with
>
> my own second rig on a dummy load sending a canned CW message (K2 s/n
> 1641).
>
>
>
> This will, I hope, be a moot point in a few months. I'm trying to learn to
>
> copy the CW barebrained instead of using the decoder. (I got rusty from
>
> when I first learned it back in 1999.) But I want to at least be able to
>
> check my copy using the decode function if I can until then. Between them,
>
> maybe I can hold a coherent QSO!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gwen, NG3P
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-
>
> Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
>
> http://quarktime.net
>
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>
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>
>
>


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Re: [Elecraft] CW Decode and Preamp?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I'd say initially that you aren't configuring the radio for the best 
decode.   Here's something I wrote some months earlier.   It might prove 
worthwhile in your case.  Of course not knowing what bands and your 
noise conditions is something you'll have to judge for yourself.  You 
may need to change the TEXT DEC value to a lower or higher value.




As to RF gain, I find many hams do not understand the way to get 
enhanced performance from their radios.   And this applies to most all 
legacy radios today.   More RF Gain does not assure one they can or will 
hear weaker signals.   The story is Signal to Noise ratio, namely in the 
area of the receiver noise floor.    Since we can't change the RX noise 
floor, as it is established by design, then we need to change the signal 
coming into the radio. Typically one wants the no signal band noise to 
be some 10 dB above the noise floor of the receiver.  And to do this we 
use a combination of attenuation and RF gain reduction.


To run the math, if the RX noise floor is -135 dBm, typical of most 
modern radios, then the "sweet spot" for no signal band noise is -125 
dBm or about S-1.  The -125 dBm value is 10 dB above the receiver noise 
floor.    If the no signal band noise is -97 dBm {S-5} then we need a 
combination of 28 dB attenuation and RF gain reduction.  I typically use 
15 dB attenuation and then back the RF gain down a good bit on 75M.  
While on 10M and 6M I will switch the attenuation off and engage the 
preamp.    Running high gain and no attenuation just to see the S meter 
move upscale is just sucking up receiver headroom and certainly doesn't 
do anything constructive toward improving signal to noise ratio.


Cranking up the RF gain and adding the preamp in many cases is the wrong 
way to go.  I hear all the time about stations running the receiver 
preamp on 80/75 meters.   WOW, they must have a really really low no 
signal band noise.  Something like -135 dBm. In your dreams.




Hope this helps.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/12/2018 7:21 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:

Please forgive me if this is a FAQ. If it is, just point me to where I can
find the old answer and I won't bring it up again.

I can usually get the CW decode to work if I can clearly hear the signal.
The CWT bar flashes and the text scrolls, and it gets a lot of characters
right. BUT...

...that's only if I have the preamp OFF.

I've tried using the preamp but decreasing the RF gain. I've tried using
the preamp and the attenuator. I even tried setting a couple of bands to
only 10db preamplification. But if the preamp is on AT ALL, the decode
either never gets a "lock" and the CWT bar is flickering randomly (no
matter what the threshold setting is) with no decode, or the CWT bar is
solid, no flashing, and there's no decode.

If have the preamp OFF, the same signal will usually decode at least
somewhat, and sometimes excellently. Most of the time, W1AW can decode
fairly easily...though FLDIGI and CWGET seem to decode more reliably.
They'll decode 80-90%, while mush is appearing on the PX3 display lines.
But at least I get something with the preamp off.

But there's just some times when the signal is weaker and I can't get the
threshold to crack without the preamp. But then I get no decode at all.

Am I doing something WRONG? Is there some step that I'm not understanding?
Heck, I've seen past entries in the list where some have said they can't
get decode unless the preamp is ON!

Or is there some known issue with preamp + decode that I haven't seen? Mind
you, my antenna, while not fantastic, is adequate for me to get to Europe
on FT8 at 35 watts. I even got from Philly to Fargo on 50w FT8 on 30
meters, using an indoor magnetic loop I built. So it's not my antennas. I
have signal, but paradoxically, when the signal is strengthened by the
preamp, I get lower decode performance. I'd expect that in high-noise
conditions -- amplifying the noise as well as the signal and hashing them
both -- but when the noise floor is low and the signal is just made more
solid with the preamp, I should be able to decode it with the same
technique as when I use it on a stronger signal without the preamp.
Shouldn't I? Or am I simply not grasping some fundamental issue? I've read
the manual, I've read mailing list archive messages, I've experimented with
my own second rig on a dummy load sending a canned CW message (K2 s/n 1641).

This will, I hope, be a moot point in a few months. I'm trying to learn to
copy the CW barebrained instead of using the decoder. (I got rusty from
when I first learned it back in 1999.) But I want to at least be able to
check my copy using the decode function if I can until then. Between them,
maybe I can hold a coherent QSO!

Thanks,
Gwen, NG3P




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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft]

 A suggestion I didn't see suggested - mine is ditch the cw readers.  If you 
use a reader, cw is going to be purely digital and its not meant to be that.Its 
not ft8!  Yes get over the shy thing too.  You won't get a report card on your 
Qso ability.  You know what they say - the more you do it - - -.It will get to 
be fun, or it should.  Thats the way its supposed to work anyway, hi.

CW is a special thing but when you can get your head to read it instead of a 
reader it might surprise you.   You're missing a lot with a reader I think.
Just my opinion.  GL Mike.
BillK3WJV

On Friday, October 5, 2018, 3:19:13 PM EDT, Michael Blake via Elecraft 
 wrote:  
 
 I have received many very good suggestions which I will give a try.  I think 
the term “key shyness” is what I need to get over.

All were very good suggestions!  Thanks.

Several questions (2) about readers.  I find the Elecraft K3s, and KX3 readers 
along with the K42, CWGet and fldigi readers to all be equal over time.  My 
favorite reader is “CW Morse” which runs on Mac OS and iOS.  They all seem to 
detract from the fun of the hunt in some way.

Again, thanks for the nudges and pushes which I will try.  Time to close the 
thread I suppose.

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI







> On Oct 5, 2018, at 11:29 AM, Michael Blake  wrote:
> 
> A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station is 
> completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle, 
> Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about 
> 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually engage 
> in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW keyboard 
> applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really getting into 
> it.
> 
> Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that will 
> entice me to engage in more CW operations?
> 
> If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
> 
> Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Ken]

On 10/5/18 12:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

1. Call CQ at "your speed".

Absolutely.  At your **receiving** speed, of course.

3. 86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38
I agree although I would suggest a bug as the last challenge to face.  
I'm currently exclusively using a bug as a challenge for a decent fist. 
I've been operating CW for 55 years now.

...
8.  Check into your local NTS section/state net [usually 80 m evenings]
Look for the slow speed or training nets to get started. Many sections 
have them.  Of course, traffic nets require the ability for hardcopy on 
paper, not in your head.  When I operated the high level nets (8RN/EAN) 
I learned to print each letter at 28 wpm.


Enjoy developing your skills.

73, Ken WA8JXM
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Dan Presley]

I’ll throw one more activity in the mix-NAQCC (North American QRP Cw club) does 
a variety of CW/slow speed events throughout the year. In fact next week 
(Sunday 10/7 to 10/14 - 10/8 UTC) is the ‘NA’ Sprint where a number of 
stations will be using special callsigns like N1A,N2A,etc. I’ll be taking a 
stint as N7A at some point during the week. Check the NAQCC website for details 
and a nice newsletter.  A fun challenge is to try to work all of the N#A areas. 
We’ll be around the usual QRP/SKCC frequencies. 
Another idea is to try checking in to the many slow speed cw nets. I teach CW 
(locally-Oregon) and have a couple of recent graduates regularly checking in to 
these nets- a nice low pressure way to get experience.  The NAQCC website lists 
a number of nets. 

Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com 
n7...@arrl.net


> On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:52, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Everyone is s very literal these days! [:-)  I used "J-38" to mean any 
> straight key that suits your fancy ... i.e. keyer+paddle, bug, straight key.  
> "J-38" is just well known and shorter than "straight key," which I've now 
> typed three times, with and without quotes and a comma.  Just need to ditch 
> the keyboard until comfortable with your manual keying device, keyboards 
> introduce a separate skill ... typing ... into the mix.
> 
> Regarding Mode A/B:  Mode B was a misteak in the programming of an early 
> Curtis keyer chip.  Or maybe Mode A was the mistake.  Might have been some 
> chip other than a Curtis.  Every transceiver with a keyer I've owned would do 
> both [1 FT, 2 TS, K2, K3].  Can't remember if the KX1 would but I think it 
> did.
> 
> Thus endeth Morse factoids for 5 Oct.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 10/5/2018 11:58 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:
>> That's a very good and comprehensive list of suggestions, Fred.  I've only 
>> one nit to pick in this statement:
>> 
>>> 3.  86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38
>> Avoid the J-38 military straight key.  The common J-38 was used in military 
>> service ONLY for Morse training.  The equally-common J-37 is the Signal 
>> Corps key most often used with real front-line sets that might be exposed to 
>> combat environments.  However, the Navy Type 26003 key is the finest of 
>> common military straight keys.  It's what I use if forced to use an 
>> Asian-origin commercial ham rig.  They seem not to know how to make a 
>> transceiver capable of Mode A iambic keying.  I'd rub two wires together 
>> before I'd ever try using the horrific Mode B that almost all Asian ham rigs 
>> force on buyers.  I really appreciate how every Elecraft rig ever made 
>> allows great Mode A iambic keying, so I don't often need to break out my 
>> 26003 straight key.
>> 
>> Mike / KK5F
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Fred Jensen]

Everyone is s very literal these days! [:-)  I used "J-38" to mean 
any straight key that suits your fancy ... i.e. keyer+paddle, bug, 
straight key.  "J-38" is just well known and shorter than "straight 
key," which I've now typed three times, with and without quotes and a 
comma.  Just need to ditch the keyboard until comfortable with your 
manual keying device, keyboards introduce a separate skill ... typing 
... into the mix.


Regarding Mode A/B:  Mode B was a misteak in the programming of an early 
Curtis keyer chip.  Or maybe Mode A was the mistake.  Might have been 
some chip other than a Curtis.  Every transceiver with a keyer I've 
owned would do both [1 FT, 2 TS, K2, K3].  Can't remember if the KX1 
would but I think it did.


Thus endeth Morse factoids for 5 Oct.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/5/2018 11:58 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:

That's a very good and comprehensive list of suggestions, Fred.  I've only one 
nit to pick in this statement:


3.  86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38

Avoid the J-38 military straight key.  The common J-38 was used in military 
service ONLY for Morse training.  The equally-common J-37 is the Signal Corps 
key most often used with real front-line sets that might be exposed to combat 
environments.  However, the Navy Type 26003 key is the finest of common 
military straight keys.  It's what I use if forced to use an Asian-origin 
commercial ham rig.  They seem not to know how to make a transceiver capable of 
Mode A iambic keying.  I'd rub two wires together before I'd ever try using the 
horrific Mode B that almost all Asian ham rigs force on buyers.  I really 
appreciate how every Elecraft rig ever made allows great Mode A iambic keying, 
so I don't often need to break out my 26003 straight key.

Mike / KK5F



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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Gwen Patton]

I got a nice little mini key that seems based on the 26003, if abbreviated.
It's 3d printed by http://www.cwmorse.us and has a very smooth and balanced
feel. I made the error of not getting one with a base. But it's a very nice
key that I'll certainly use for straight key cw. I have a nice Bencher
paddle, and a Whiterook mini paddle. I built a tiny paddle from a kit at
QRPGuys.com that I haven't yet tested. But I just got a little capacitive
touch "paddle" that works nicely with the KX3 internal keyer that I found
on Ebay for about $10. I got the Bencher many years ago at a hamfest, with
a plexiglas dust cover that houses one of the old CMOS Super Keyer III's.
It works like a total champ, and has six memory buttons, and can be used as
a practice oscillator.

I have a ridiculous number of keys and paddles for someone who doesn't do
much CW.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 2:58 PM Mike Morrow  wrote:

> That's a very good and comprehensive list of suggestions, Fred.  I've only
> one nit to pick in this statement:
>
> > 3.  86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38
>
> Avoid the J-38 military straight key.  The common J-38 was used in
> military service ONLY for Morse training.  The equally-common J-37 is the
> Signal Corps key most often used with real front-line sets that might be
> exposed to combat environments.  However, the Navy Type 26003 key is the
> finest of common military straight keys.  It's what I use if forced to use
> an Asian-origin commercial ham rig.  They seem not to know how to make a
> transceiver capable of Mode A iambic keying.  I'd rub two wires together
> before I'd ever try using the horrific Mode B that almost all Asian ham
> rigs force on buyers.  I really appreciate how every Elecraft rig ever made
> allows great Mode A iambic keying, so I don't often need to break out my
> 26003 straight key.
>
> Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Michael Blake via Elecraft]

I have received many very good suggestions which I will give a try.  I think 
the term “key shyness” is what I need to get over.

All were very good suggestions!  Thanks.

Several questions (2) about readers.  I find the Elecraft K3s, and KX3 readers 
along with the K42, CWGet and fldigi readers to all be equal over time.  My 
favorite reader is “CW Morse” which runs on Mac OS and iOS.  They all seem to 
detract from the fun of the hunt in some way.

Again, thanks for the nudges and pushes which I will try.  Time to close the 
thread I suppose.

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI







> On Oct 5, 2018, at 11:29 AM, Michael Blake  wrote:
> 
> A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station is 
> completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle, 
> Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about 
> 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually engage 
> in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW keyboard 
> applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really getting into 
> it.
> 
> Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that will 
> entice me to engage in more CW operations?
> 
> If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
> 
> Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Mike Morrow]

That's a very good and comprehensive list of suggestions, Fred.  I've only one 
nit to pick in this statement:

> 3.  86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38

Avoid the J-38 military straight key.  The common J-38 was used in military 
service ONLY for Morse training.  The equally-common J-37 is the Signal Corps 
key most often used with real front-line sets that might be exposed to combat 
environments.  However, the Navy Type 26003 key is the finest of common 
military straight keys.  It's what I use if forced to use an Asian-origin 
commercial ham rig.  They seem not to know how to make a transceiver capable of 
Mode A iambic keying.  I'd rub two wires together before I'd ever try using the 
horrific Mode B that almost all Asian ham rigs force on buyers.  I really 
appreciate how every Elecraft rig ever made allows great Mode A iambic keying, 
so I don't often need to break out my 26003 straight key.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Gwen Patton]

I'm re-learning code that I haven't significantly used since I passed my
General (my Extra was BARELY past the time when they removed the
requirement). I'm right on that edge where I can ALMOST get it, but not
quite. I can get bits, but not enough to make sense. I don't think in it
yet. I'm signed up for a CWops course -- I was tempted to do level 2, but
figured I'm SO rusty, I decided to let them retrain me completely in their
method, since my method resulted in it not really sticking all that well.
The course I'm signed up for starts in January, just after the new year
begins.

My biggest hurdle has been "mike shyness", or the equivalent with a key or
paddle. I've got keys. I've got paddles. I can even use them to a degree.
But I still can't COPY worth a damn. I'm trying to immerse myself in code
at least a bit. I have a program that'll convert a text file into a CW MP3
file. So I got a favorite short story from Project Gutenberg and converted
it (H. Beam Piper's "Omnilingual". It seemed appropriate.), and I can sit
and listen and try to make sense out of it. I'm getting words here and
there, but it's still something I have to CONCENTRATE on. It's not
reflexive yet.

I'll sometimes fire up a websdr and CWGet (I know, lose the readers) and
let it play in the background while I do things. I can sometimes pick out
call signs and simple stuff without having to peek at the reader.

Eventually, I'll get there. And I'm sure, once I start USING it and making
contacts, and nobody laughs me off the band, I'll get to like it and it'll
become natural as breathing.

73,
Gwen NG3P

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 1:25 PM John Flynn  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> A couple of thoughts about activities that have kept me ditting and dawing.
>
> You might consider hanging out with the SKCC (Straight Key Century Club)
> ops. As the name suggests, straight key bug, or cootie key only. Lots of
> activities and awards to chase. Also the group has a very active reflector.
>
> Check out WWFF (World Wide Flora and Fauna), POTA (Parks on the Air) and
> SOTA (Summits on the Air). You can be an activator or chaser/hunter.
>
> Another activity I've never seen mentioned is CW nets. I check in most
> mornings at 8:30 with HBN--Hit and Bounce Net (east coast).
>
> Finally, sign up for a level 2 or 3 online course with the CW Academy.
>
> Over time, I've used all of the above to keep me motivated.
>
> GL es 73,
>
> John K4ARQ
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2018, 11:31 Michael Blake via Elecraft <
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
> > A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My
> station
> > is completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle,
> > Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to
> about
> > 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually
> > engage in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW
> > keyboard applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really
> > getting into it.
> >
> > Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that
> > will entice me to engage in more CW operations?
> >
> > If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
> >
> > Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[John Flynn]

Hi Mike,

A couple of thoughts about activities that have kept me ditting and dawing.

You might consider hanging out with the SKCC (Straight Key Century Club)
ops. As the name suggests, straight key bug, or cootie key only. Lots of
activities and awards to chase. Also the group has a very active reflector.

Check out WWFF (World Wide Flora and Fauna), POTA (Parks on the Air) and
SOTA (Summits on the Air). You can be an activator or chaser/hunter.

Another activity I've never seen mentioned is CW nets. I check in most
mornings at 8:30 with HBN--Hit and Bounce Net (east coast).

Finally, sign up for a level 2 or 3 online course with the CW Academy.

Over time, I've used all of the above to keep me motivated.

GL es 73,

John K4ARQ

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018, 11:31 Michael Blake via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station
> is completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle,
> Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about
> 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually
> engage in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW
> keyboard applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really
> getting into it.
>
> Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that
> will entice me to engage in more CW operations?
>
> If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
>
> Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Grady Harper]

Stop using readers and the keyboard.  Find a conversation (qso) and 
listen/copy.  Practice.  When you are comfortable copying answer a call.  Most 
cw operators will try to send at your speed.  I was where you are now.  I still 
get “stage fright” now and then.  The more you do it the better you get, about 
like everything else.  Just remember to help the new guys.  That’s how our 
hobby works.

AJ4YA
Grady
Wendell, NC

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 5, 2018, at 11:29, Michael Blake via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station is 
> completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle, 
> Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about 
> 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually engage 
> in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW keyboard 
> applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really getting into 
> it.
> 
> Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that will 
> entice me to engage in more CW operations?
> 
> If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
> 
> Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Walter Underwood]

Have you tried chasing Summits on the Air (SOTA) activators? Last weekend there 
were a whole bunch of people on mountain tops in Arizona. There are quite a few 
CW activators.

Programme: https://www.sota.org.uk/

Spots: http://www.sotawatch.org/

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Oct 5, 2018, at 8:29 AM, Michael Blake via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station is 
> completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle, 
> Vibroplex Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about 
> 20 WPM but I seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually engage 
> in a CW contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW keyboard 
> applications but I believe they actually prevent me from really getting into 
> it.
> 
> Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that will 
> entice me to engage in more CW operations?
> 
> If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.
> 
> Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW with my K3s and KX3

[Fred Jensen]

1.  Call CQ at "your speed".
2.  QRS is a perfectly acceptable Q-signal in mixed company
3.  86 the keyboard and send with paddle/bug/J-38
4.  Listen around the QRP frequencies ~.050 - .060
5.  www.sotawatch.com & call summit activators.  short exchanges
6.  Join SKCC
7.  Don't join SKCC but look for them
8.  Check into your local NTS section/state net [usually 80 m evenings]
9.  Monitor around .028 and call those at your speed [CWops hangout]
10. Ask for a sked with another Elecrafter here.  I'm available]

That should get you started.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/5/2018 8:29 AM, Michael Blake via Elecraft wrote:

A bit off topic but I think many Elecraft users are CW people.  My station is 
completely set up for good CW (K3s, KPA500, KAT500, KX3 with paddle, Vibroplex 
Code Warrior) and I can send and copy relatively well up to about 20 WPM but I 
seem to lack the interest to grab the horns and actually engage in a CW 
contact.  I have several very good code readers and CW keyboard applications 
but I believe they actually prevent me from really getting into it.

Any suggestions in how to actually create some interest or thrill that will 
entice me to engage in more CW operations?

If you wish to reply off line please use k9jri at Mac dot com.

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI



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Re: [Elecraft] CW Transmit Text Decode is off

[Nr4c]

The decode is rather persnickety. Your ears might not hear it but I suspect 
your sending is just not perfect enough to satisfy the decoder. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Sep 16, 2018, at 8:05 PM, Cliff Clark  wrote:
> 
> I love my KX2, and I thought I would use the TX only CW code to practice,
> but I'm having a problem.
> 
> I turn Vox off so there is no RF out.
> 
> I'm sending some letters like L that end up as ED, or something an R ends
> up EN.  The sound emitted by the radio seems right though.  I even recorded
> it in Audacity on my laptop, and the waveform looks perfect, but the decode
> is sometimes right, and sometimes not.
> 
> Is this just the way it works, or am I just bad at sending?  (or maybe both
> :-)
> 
> I think I'll have to disable the CW decode for now.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Cliff (AG7CC)
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Transmit Text Decode is off

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Make sure the contacts on the paddle are clean. Drag a business card between 
them while applying a bit of pressure. 

Also reduce the keyer speed a bit.   

I use both a single lever and a dual lever paddle. Timing and rhythm is the key 
to a good fist.  Roll your fist from side to side as opposed to pressing the 
lever by moving the thumb and forefinger. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Cliff Clark  wrote:
> 
> Well, I think I might know what is going on then.  The timing must be
> really tight.  I'm using a single lever paddle, and I think if it polls
> when I'm switching from dit to dah, or vice versa, then it breaks the
> letter, even if it sounds pretty much OK (well, it's faster than my ears
> anyway).
> 
> So, I guess the technique is to switch before the last element is sent so
> it has enough time to engage the next element before it polls.
> 
> I'm actually doing the level 1 CW Academy course.  I guess I have plenty of
> practice ahead.  It's pretty embarrassing not being able to send my own
> name right :-)
> 
> Anyway, good to know I'm not losing my mind (yet).
> 
> Thanks,
> Cliff
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:24 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> Cliff,
>> 
>> The decoder demands precise timing of dits, dahs, and the spacing.
>> It sounds like your "L" being decoded as ED is a result of a slight
>> pause between the leading dit and the following part of the dahs and
>> ending dits.
>> Similarly, "R" coming out as ED is the same problem - a slight pause
>> after the first dit.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/16/2018 8:05 PM, Cliff Clark wrote:
>>> I love my KX2, and I thought I would use the TX only CW code to practice,
>>> but I'm having a problem.
>>> 
>>> I turn Vox off so there is no RF out.
>>> 
>>> I'm sending some letters like L that end up as ED, or something an R ends
>>> up EN.  The sound emitted by the radio seems right though.  I even
>> recorded
>>> it in Audacity on my laptop, and the waveform looks perfect, but the
>> decode
>>> is sometimes right, and sometimes not.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] CW Transmit Text Decode is off

[Gwen Patton]

>
> I'm actually doing the level 1 CW Academy course.  I guess I have plenty of
> practice ahead.  It's pretty embarrassing not being able to send my own
> name right :-)


I'm taking that course in January, Cliff! I'm not precisely level 1, but
it's been so long since I used my code that I'm starting over anyway. So I
know how you feel!

73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 9:41 PM Cliff Clark  wrote:

> Well, I think I might know what is going on then.  The timing must be
> really tight.  I'm using a single lever paddle, and I think if it polls
> when I'm switching from dit to dah, or vice versa, then it breaks the
> letter, even if it sounds pretty much OK (well, it's faster than my ears
> anyway).
>
> So, I guess the technique is to switch before the last element is sent so
> it has enough time to engage the next element before it polls.
>
> I'm actually doing the level 1 CW Academy course.  I guess I have plenty of
> practice ahead.  It's pretty embarrassing not being able to send my own
> name right :-)
>
> Anyway, good to know I'm not losing my mind (yet).
>
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:24 AM Don Wilhelm 
> wrote:
>
> > Cliff,
> >
> > The decoder demands precise timing of dits, dahs, and the spacing.
> > It sounds like your "L" being decoded as ED is a result of a slight
> > pause between the leading dit and the following part of the dahs and
> > ending dits.
> > Similarly, "R" coming out as ED is the same problem - a slight pause
> > after the first dit.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> >
> > On 9/16/2018 8:05 PM, Cliff Clark wrote:
> > > I love my KX2, and I thought I would use the TX only CW code to
> practice,
> > > but I'm having a problem.
> > >
> > > I turn Vox off so there is no RF out.
> > >
> > > I'm sending some letters like L that end up as ED, or something an R
> ends
> > > up EN.  The sound emitted by the radio seems right though.  I even
> > recorded
> > > it in Audacity on my laptop, and the waveform looks perfect, but the
> > decode
> > > is sometimes right, and sometimes not.
> > >
> >
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