subject:"Re\: \[Elecraft\] Elecraft P3"

That's really good. Since I'm still waiting for the missing nuts for the BNC 
connectors, I haven't been able to build my P3 yet. It's been here 2 weeks now 
:-(

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
-- 
A child, like your stomach, doesn't need all you can afford to give it.
-Frank A. Clark, writer (1911- )

On 23 Aug 2010, at 23:22, Ken Chandler wrote:

 Hi Gang
 Olivia sent my P3  confirmation on the 19th August, UPS delivered it today 
 23rd August, at 1800hrs.
 Read the manual, I started Assembly at 21:45 - finished the build  at 22:55.
 serial no: 249 is fully assembled.
 
 Ken..G0ORH  K2, K3, P3.

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

2010-08-24 Thread Rick Prather

David,

I'm really surprised that you haven't been able to pick up a couple of those 
nuts locally.   They're pretty generic.

Rick
K6LE

On 8/23/2010, at 11:29 , David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

 That's really good. Since I'm still waiting for the missing nuts for the BNC 
 connectors, I haven't been able to build my P3 yet. It's been here 2 weeks 
 now :-(
 
 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
 -- 
 A child, like your stomach, doesn't need all you can afford to give it.
 -Frank A. Clark, writer (1911- )
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

2010-08-24 Thread David Pratt

I'll send you some with pleasure, David, if you want.  But why don't you 
build your XV144 while you're waiting?

73

David G4DMP/G3KEP
Leeds, UK

In a recent message, Rick Prather k6limae...@gmail.com wrote ...

David,

I'm really surprised that you haven't been able to pick up a couple of 
those nuts locally.   They're pretty generic.

Rick
K6LE

On 8/23/2010, at 11:29 , David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

 That's really good. Since I'm still waiting for the missing nuts for 
the BNC connectors, I haven't been able to build my P3 yet. It's been 
here 2 weeks now :-(

 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
[...@p snipped]



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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

Thanks for the offer, just one will do to hold the board in until the Elecraft 
ones appear.
XV144 will take a little longer than the P3 methinks.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
-- 
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not 
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
- Robert McCloskey, State Department spokesman (attributed)

On 24 Aug 2010, at 07:50, David Pratt wrote:

 I'll send you some with pleasure, David, if you want.  But why don't you 
 build your XV144 while you're waiting?
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

To be honest, I didn't think it would take this long for them to arrive. 
Inventoried the kit on 12th, contacted Aptos and Julie had them sent U.S. 
Postal Service Priority Mail Intl that day. USPS tracking says they have 
shipped and that’s as far as it goes, I guess they are sitting in customs or 
something somewhere in UK.

I would have ordered some had I realised. Now I'm a bit short of time again, 
but should be able to fit a build in one evening.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 (almost)
-- 
By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad 
one, you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates

On 24 Aug 2010, at 07:34, Rick Prather wrote:

 David,
 
 I'm really surprised that you haven't been able to pick up a couple of those 
 nuts locally.   They're pretty generic.
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

2010-08-24 Thread David Pratt

If its the E700078 jack nuts that are missing, why not borrow those in 
your XV144 kit until the others arrive?

73

David

In a recent message, David Ferrington, M0XDF m0...@alphadene.co.uk 
wrote ...

Thanks for the offer, just one will do to hold the board in until the 
Elecraft ones appear.
XV144 will take a little longer than the P3 methinks.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108

-- 
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK
--



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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

Oh, perhaps I should say that we aren’t as lucky as you guys appear to be in 
US, we do have a Maplins store, but not one real close to me (closest is 11 
miles and then there's parking, assuming they have some)  and with no time to 
go there, I'd order from the web, but that would cost 6p for the nut and £5.95 
+ VAT handling, total charge for 1 nut = £7.13!!!

To be honest, I didn't think it would take this long for them to arrive. 
Inventoried the kit on 12th, contacted Aptos and Julie had them sent U.S. 
Postal Service Priority Mail Intl that day. USPS tracking says they have 
shipped and that’s as far as it goes, I guess they are sitting in customs or 
something somewhere in UK.

I would have ordered some had I realised. Now I'm a bit short of time again, 
but should be able to fit a build in one evening.
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 (almost)
-- 
By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad 
one, you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates

On 24 Aug 2010, at 07:34, Rick Prather wrote:

 David,
 
 I'm really surprised that you haven't been able to pick up a couple of those 
 nuts locally.   They're pretty generic.
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

It's the E700059, 9/16 BNC nuts, but I hadn't thought of looking in the XV144 
kit, think there is a BNC in there.

Now, it's the XYL's birthday today and we are supposed to be going out tonight 
- I wonder .

Guess I'll have a go tomorrow :-)

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
-- 
Don't look forward to the day you stop suffering, because when it 
comes you'll know you're dead. -Tennessee Williams

On 24 Aug 2010, at 09:02, David Pratt wrote:

 If its the E700078 jack nuts that are missing, why not borrow those in 
 your XV144 kit until the others arrive?
 
 73
 
 David
 
 In a recent message, David Ferrington, M0XDF m0...@alphadene.co.uk 
 wrote ...
 
 Thanks for the offer, just one will do to hold the board in until the 
 Elecraft ones appear.
 XV144 will take a little longer than the P3 methinks.
 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

2010-08-23 Thread K4SC


I received my P3 Order Confirmation today.  My order date was 7/17.  Says it
should ship in 7 to 10 business days.  Yippee Skippee 
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-Shipping-Notice-tp5423116p5454203.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft [P3] Shipping Notice

2010-08-23 Thread Ken Chandler

Hi Gang
Olivia sent my P3  confirmation on the 19th August, UPS delivered it today 23rd 
August, at 1800hrs.
Read the manual, I started Assembly at 21:45 - finished the build  at 22:55.
serial no: 249 is fully assembled.

Ken..G0ORH  K2, K3, P3.

Sent from my iPhone

 


On 23 Aug 2010, at 21:42, K4SC k4swissche...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 I received my P3 Order Confirmation today.  My order date was 7/17.  Says it
 should ship in 7 to 10 business days.  Yippee Skippee 
 -- 
 View this message in context: 
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-Shipping-Notice-tp5423116p5454203.html
 Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-16 Thread KARL MARDERIAN

N6xvt,
OK, but if you wanted to do that fine tuning, wound it be pain. If so best to 
buy assembled?
On Feb 15, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:

 No alignment is needed.  I'll probably include the ability to fine-tune
 the amplitude (like the K3 S-meter calibration) and frequency but it's
 not necessary.
 
 Alan N1AL
 
 
 On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 12:03 -0800, Karl Marderian wrote:
 I just hope if the P3 is in kit forum, which I like. That one does not  
 20K worth of test gear and a Masters degree to adjust allinement!
  N6XVT
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Alan Bloom a...@elecraft.com wrote:
 
 The P3 will be available as a no solder kit like the K3 as well as  
 an
 assembled unit.
 
 Alan N1AL
 
 On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
 Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or  
 something that is all ready to be plugged in and used?
 
 73, phil, K7PEH
 
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread Karl Marderian


I just hope if the P3 is in kit forum, which I like. That one does not  
20K worth of test gear and a Masters degree to adjust allinement!
  N6XVT
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Alan Bloom a...@elecraft.com wrote:

 The P3 will be available as a no solder kit like the K3 as well as  
 an
 assembled unit.

 Alan N1AL

 On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
 Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or  
 something that is all ready to be plugged in and used?

 73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread Terry Schieler

Darn!  I was hoping that it would go on the LEFT side of the K3.

Terry W0FM

-Original Message-
From: Dave Quick - KØEKL [mailto:dave.qu...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 4:57 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
took today at the Orlando Hamcation.

Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
here - price subject to change)  and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
the LCD screen vendor to supply product.

Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514...@n06/

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread Dick Dievendorff

The supplied cables are long enough that you have your choice.

Dick, K6KR

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Terry Schieler
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:16 PM
To: 'Dave Quick - KØEKL'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Darn!  I was hoping that it would go on the LEFT side of the K3.

Terry W0FM

-Original Message-
From: Dave Quick - KØEKL [mailto:dave.qu...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 4:57 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
took today at the Orlando Hamcation.

Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
here - price subject to change)  and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
the LCD screen vendor to supply product.

Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514...@n06/

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread Terry Schieler

Well, once again, Dick, it appears that my light-hearted jab at all the
predictors didn't make it through the filter.

:o)

Thanks for the reply nonetheless.  My apologies to anyone who took my
comment seriously.

Terry W0FM



-Original Message-
From: Dick Dievendorff [mailto:die...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 3:25 PM
To: 'Terry Schieler'
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

The supplied cables are long enough that you have your choice.

Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Terry Schieler
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:16 PM
To: 'Dave Quick - KØEKL'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Darn!  I was hoping that it would go on the LEFT side of the K3.

Terry W0FM



-Original Message-
From: Dave Quick - KØEKL [mailto:dave.qu...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 4:57 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
took today at the Orlando Hamcation.
 
Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
here - price subject to change)  and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
the LCD screen vendor to supply product.
 
Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514...@n06/




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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread gdaught6

 The supplied cables are long enough that you have your choice.

Yes, but don't you have to interchange the if in and if out cables?  And 
doesn't 
the scan run from right-to-left?  

And can't you select your own colors (for those who have vonRecklinghausen's 
color 
blindness)?  8)

You guys are all pretty much wonderful!  I mean it.

73,



George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 2-3, 2010


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF

not with the handle there!
but I guess you can put it wherever you want :-)
73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
-- 
God gives every bird his worm, but he does not throw it into the nest.
-Swedish proverb 

On 15 Feb 2010, at 21:15, Terry Schieler wrote:

 Darn!  I was hoping that it would go on the LEFT side of the K3.
 
 Terry W0FM
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-15 Thread Alan Bloom

No alignment is needed.  I'll probably include the ability to fine-tune
the amplitude (like the K3 S-meter calibration) and frequency but it's
not necessary.

Alan N1AL


On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 12:03 -0800, Karl Marderian wrote:
 I just hope if the P3 is in kit forum, which I like. That one does not  
 20K worth of test gear and a Masters degree to adjust allinement!
   N6XVT
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Alan Bloom a...@elecraft.com wrote:
 
  The P3 will be available as a no solder kit like the K3 as well as  
  an
  assembled unit.
 
  Alan N1AL
 
  On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
  Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or  
  something that is all ready to be plugged in and used?
 
  73, phil, K7PEH
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
of their products you have a low standard.

As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
that I ordered it.  I knew it was going to take that long and hell
they didn't even take my money until they shipped it.

The K3 was sold just in time and it was plenty ready as far as
hardware goes.  The list of changes in the radio as far as hardware
are quite small.  The changes are minor tweaks for the most part as
well!  Heck some of them are even improvements that add features that
no one was even expecting (like the high RF protection mod).

For someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang out
here a lot.  If they were as bad as you like to let on one would think
you'd have gone somewhere else.  I feel the fact that you stick around
and keep complaining undeniable proof that Elecraft does it better
than anyone else.  That fact that you voted with your money and own
their products solidify it even further.

I only feel the need to call you out on it because someone else coming
into this area who's not used to hearing you complain might get the
wrong idea and think that there is actually a problem with the way
Elecraft does business!  When really its just that you like to get
your gripes heard early and often.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:38 PM, S Sacco nn4x.st...@gmail.com wrote:
 Brett -

 While we're thinking about stuff...where do you suppose most of the
 components inside the P3 were manufactured?

 Regarding support...I don't know...HP (hardware) and Microsoft (OS)
 seem to have pretty large websites with lots of information on
 them...and plenty of updates...especially Microsoft security patches
 that they so like to dump on us every few Tuesdays.  :-)

 Yeah, Elecraft support is excellent, but the flip side is that the
 company has a tendency to sell products that are not quite ready yet.
 I know; my first K3 was delivered 9 months after it was first
 promised.



 On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com wrote:
 All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
 very poorly and aren't treated all that well either.  The P3 is a labor
 of love put together by a select few engineers.  Its probably built by
 people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
 living wage...

 Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
 the sale!  You're not going to get that from the company that made that
 computer.  You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
 upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
 documentation written up on how to perform the mods.  Not to mention
 that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
 own.  You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!

 Just something to think about!  Personally I see it as a little high but
 still yet very fair!

 ~Brett (KC7OTG)
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread John Ronan


On 14 Feb 2010, at 08:59, Brett Howard wrote:

 As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
 like you were forced into waiting for it.
Um mine (2184) arrived earlier than I was expecting, about 6 weeks actually.  
Made me a very happy chappie.

de John
EI7IG
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Jeff KB2M

  I'm running SDR-IF 192k wide on a $399 3 year old 2.20 gigahertz Pentium
Dual Non hyper-threaded processor with 2 gig of memory under WIN7 32 bit. I
have a $229 24 inch monitor, and a used Infrasonic Quartet soundcard I
picked up for $90.The SDR-IF software uses about 25% of the screens real
estate. I just tested SDR-IF's CPU usage. It is under 17% average. I just
watched a video I selected from MSN, it uses on average 44% CPU. Along with
LP-Bridge running I can use several programs simultaneously with the K3 When
in contest mode I run SDR-IF, LP-Bridge, Logic8, and contest specific
logging software. I can control the K3 with either piece of software via the
virtual com ports in LP-Bridge, via a mouse click, or turn of a knob. While
this is up and running I read email, view videos, chat with my GF's on
Yahoo, MSN, etc without a burp, and without any geek type system tweaking,
plug and play. This to me is the ultimate shack setup made possible with the
K3's IF out. I'm one of the people Larry mentions that switched over from
Flex. I owned a Flex 1000 for several years. Part of my preference to the
SDR-IF software is I've been running it for 4 or 5 years.
 Do I need a P3? No, and I don't see myself lusting for one. Where I think
Elecraft is going with this is to a QRO rig. This K4 if you will, will be
200 watts output, have a bandscope (the one we see today) built in, room for
actual band select buttons, more room between knobs, more knobs, less menu
items, a nice set of dual speakers, etc. A 70cm module and the ability to
run full duplex on the satellites would be nice. I would sell my 9000D and
buy one of them. Ok enough, the sun is shining, I'm obviously snowed in
here, and need to get out of the house :) 
 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:12 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
But I'm equally sure there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly
screen hogging
resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
of band activity. 

73 Jeff kb2m


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread S Sacco

Hi Brett -

I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.

I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
the K3.  ;-)

While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
outnumbered band of Elecraftians (Elecraftites?) fighting valiantly
on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.

Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
didn't they?

My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
say: someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
out here a lot. .  If, by hang out here a lot, you mean subscribe
to the mailing list, then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)

You're hardly calling me out.(see above regarding the frequency
of my posting).

Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.

Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
(Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
to Plan B, and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
but they're not that important to me.

Take good care, Brett!

73,
Steve NN4X
EL98jh





On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com wrote:
 Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
 them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
 a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
 of their products you have a low standard.

 As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
 like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
 back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
 asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
 take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
 that I ordered it.  I knew it was going to take that long and hell
 they didn't even take my money until they shipped it.

 The K3 was sold just in time and it was plenty ready as far as
 hardware goes.  The list of changes in the radio as far as hardware
 are quite small.  The changes are minor tweaks for the most part as
 well!  Heck some of them are even improvements that add features that
 no one was even expecting (like the high RF protection mod).

 For someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang out
 here a lot.  If they were as bad as you like to let on one would think
 you'd have gone somewhere else.  I feel the fact that you stick around
 and keep complaining undeniable proof that Elecraft does it better
 than anyone else.  That fact that you voted with your money and own
 their products solidify it even further.

 I only feel the need to call you out on it because someone else coming
 into this area who's not used to hearing you complain might get the
 wrong idea and think that there is

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Sure I can comment on the origin of parts:

There is nothing one can do about the origin of the parts...  I work in
the electronics design industry as well and there really is nothing you
can build if you're only willing to use parts made in the USA.  But
there is a LOT to be said about designed and manufactured locally.  Its
more expensive but it does give you better control to more quickly
respond to problems.  And I don't just mean made in the USA I mean
made where the design team is. 

I'm not pulling the whole USA is better than anyone else in everything
garbage.  I just feel that if the design team is in Germany that the
best place to make it is Germany if you want quality and the ability to
quickly respond to issues.  Same holds true if a product is designed in
China.  

~Brett

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:48 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
 Hi Brett -
 
 I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
 companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
 support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.
 
 I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
 the K3.  ;-)
 
 While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
 a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
 talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
 turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
 starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
 alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
 outnumbered band of Elecraftians (Elecraftites?) fighting valiantly
 on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
 the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.
 
 Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
 this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
 was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
 optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
 optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
 their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
 you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
 doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
 who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
 but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
 raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
 the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
 they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
 didn't they?
 
 My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
 say: someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
 out here a lot. .  If, by hang out here a lot, you mean subscribe
 to the mailing list, then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
 k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)
 
 You're hardly calling me out.(see above regarding the frequency
 of my posting).
 
 Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
 for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
 you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.
 
 Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
 U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
 that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
 Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
 waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
 that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
 (Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
 great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
 that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
 to Plan B, and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
 equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
 but they're not that important to me.
 
 Take good care, Brett!
 
 73,
 Steve NN4X
 EL98jh
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com wrote:
  Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information.  Try giving
  them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue!  Try emailing
  a designer!  If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
  of their products you have a low standard.
 
  As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
  like you were forced into waiting for it.  If you wanted your money
  back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
  asked.  EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
  take a long time.  Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
  that I ordered it.  I knew it was going to take that long and hell
  they didn't even take my money

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread S Sacco

Brett -

You're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand.

Your original statement was  All of that equipment was made by teams
of Chinese people who are paid very poorly and aren't treated all that
well either.

My point was that the people churning out those chips probably fall
into the same category.  But you knew that.

Regarding local design/support, I am for wherever I can get the best
team.  Elecraft provides excellent support, and it's based in the
U.S., which is local for you and me, but maybe not so much for our
friends in other countries - but since it's so excellent, I don't
think they're complaining.

73,

Steve
NN4X







On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com wrote:
 Sure I can comment on the origin of parts:

 There is nothing one can do about the origin of the parts...  I work in
 the electronics design industry as well and there really is nothing you
 can build if you're only willing to use parts made in the USA.  But
 there is a LOT to be said about designed and manufactured locally.  Its
 more expensive but it does give you better control to more quickly
 respond to problems.  And I don't just mean made in the USA I mean
 made where the design team is.

 I'm not pulling the whole USA is better than anyone else in everything
 garbage.  I just feel that if the design team is in Germany that the
 best place to make it is Germany if you want quality and the ability to
 quickly respond to issues.  Same holds true if a product is designed in
 China.

 ~Brett

 On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:48 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
 Hi Brett -

 I seriously think you're missing the point.  The point was that other
 companies offer support, too, and they do.  I agreed that Elecraft
 support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.

 I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
 the K3.  ;-)

 While I like my K3's, I think  you're romanticizing Elecraft.  They're
 a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
 talented people,  I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
 turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate.  I don't want anyone
 starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism.  Perhaps I'm
 alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
 outnumbered band of Elecraftians (Elecraftites?) fighting valiantly
 on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
 the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.

 Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3.  Brett, I've had
 this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument.  I
 was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
 optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
 optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
 their existing orders, and attracting new ones.  Wrong is just wrong,
 you know what I mean?  Just because I could have chosen something else
 doesn't make what Elecraft did OK.  Those, apparently like yourself,
 who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
 but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards,  or not
 raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate.  I sure hope they ship
 the P3 when they say they'll ship it.  I may be wrong, but I think
 they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
 didn't they?

 My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
 say: someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
 out here a lot. .  If, by hang out here a lot, you mean subscribe
 to the mailing list, then guilty as charged.  I also subscribe to the
 k3 mailing list on Yahoo.  Hope that's cool with you.  :-)

 You're hardly calling me out.    (see above regarding the frequency
 of my posting).

 Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
 for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
 you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.

 Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
 U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
 that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
 Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
 waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
 that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
 (Thanks Lisa for your help with that!).   So, once again, we have
 great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
 that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other.  I went
 to Plan B, and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
 equipment, and he replaced the IC for me.  I won't get the updates,
 but they're not that important to me.

 Take good care, Brett!

 73,
 Steve NN4X
 EL98jh





 On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com 
 wrote:

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Eric Swartz -WA6HHQ, Elecraft

Gentlemen  - Let's end this OT part of the thread and take it to direct 
email.

(Also, as a general note to everyone, please stop copying 100% of  prior 
posts in each reply. It clogs the reflector and digests. And it makes it 
painful to read for those of us reading email using PDAs like the 
Motorola Droid.)

73,
Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator
-

S Sacco wrote:
 Brett -

 You're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand.

 Your original statement was  All of that equipment was made by teams
 of Chinese people who are paid very poorly and aren't treated all that
 well either.

 My point was that the people churning out those chips probably fall
 into the same category.  But you knew that.
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Alan Bloom

The P3 will be available as a no solder kit like the K3 as well as an
assembled unit.

Alan N1AL

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
 Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that is 
 all ready to be plugged in and used?
 
 73, phil, K7PEH
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

You've got that bugger running fast!  Good on ya!  Now I just hope with
all hope that I can get one in my hands before FD!

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 21:47 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote:
 The P3 will be available as a no solder kit like the K3 as well as an
 assembled unit.
 
 Alan N1AL
 
 On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:32 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote:
  Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that 
  is all ready to be plugged in and used?
  
  73, phil, K7PEH
  
  
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-14 Thread Alan Bloom

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:18 -0800, Brett Howard wrote:
 I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
 rate of the thing  

Currently about 20 Hz (50 ms).

 But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
 are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
 that refresh rate...

There's room for further optimization, but frankly even 20 Hz is
starting to get a little too fast IMHO.  At some point the spectrum
trace is changing so fast it starts to look fuzzy.  Also a slower trace
gives a longer history on the waterfall display.

Alan N1AL


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

The Agilent MXA's tout their speep speed... You can easily get them
upwards of around 30 to 40+ sweeps/sec. ;)

~Brett


On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 21:50 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote:
 On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 17:18 -0800, Brett Howard wrote:
  I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
  rate of the thing  
 
 Currently about 20 Hz (50 ms).
 
  But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
  are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
  that refresh rate...
 
 There's room for further optimization, but frankly even 20 Hz is
 starting to get a little too fast IMHO.  At some point the spectrum
 trace is changing so fast it starts to look fuzzy.  Also a slower trace
 gives a longer history on the waterfall display.
 
 Alan N1AL
 
 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation



Dave - AB7E wrote:
 
 
 Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are
 they?  I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for
 any box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it
 does before sending off the check.
 
 
No. I think the order backlog for this will probably be even bigger than it
was for the K3 when that was announced. Those who aren't quick off the mark
will be lucky to see a P3 before Christmas. So the savvy will order the
minute it comes up on the website and then decide if they need it. Heck, I
expect some people are sending $700 cheques already to Eric to secure places
at the head of the queue. You can always sell it to someone further down the
waiting list!

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-panadapter-at-the-Orlando-Hamcation-tp4564111p4565588.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Guy Olinger K2AV

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com wrote:

 Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are they?  
 I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any box, 
 even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does before 
 sending off the check.


I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.  Early ham feedback at hamfests is
essential, and it too is RD.

It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
insisting that they are slow.  You want the kind of innovation and
service they are known for, you have to wait.  It's not a flaw or
laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys.  It's
careful business.  Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
quality, low price?  (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)

I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
close to the edge these days?  Hello?  The early plunk for the K3 was
a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme.  Lot better than them
being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
unrelated reasons.  Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.

Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while.  Conservative business
practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.

And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.

73, Guy.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Guy -

Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
promising wildly optimistic delivery dates.  I consider that to be a highly
questionable business practice.


On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.netwrote:

 On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com
 wrote:
 
  Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are
 they?  I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
 box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
 before sending off the check.
 

 I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
 model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
 event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.  Early ham feedback at hamfests is
 essential, and it too is RD.

 It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
 insisting that they are slow.  You want the kind of innovation and
 service they are known for, you have to wait.  It's not a flaw or
 laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys.  It's
 careful business.  Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
 do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
 quality, low price?  (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
 at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)

 I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
 close to the edge these days?  Hello?  The early plunk for the K3 was
 a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme.  Lot better than them
 being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
 unrelated reasons.  Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
 financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
 note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.

 Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while.  Conservative business
 practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
 peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
 down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
 what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.

 And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
 gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
 the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
 come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.

 73, Guy.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread N1JM


I think for the 250 I invested in a LP-PAN and sound card that will do me
fine. If the price will be around the SDR-IQ I might have second thoughts.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing.
Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00.
The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are
so enthusiastic about Elecraft; hams may be called cheap but have
considerable discretionary spending available. The P-3 could sell for a few
hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their RD
investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the RD
investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
tossed around is a bit absurd in my view. Yeah, many of us can and will pay
it, but its okay to talk about 3-400 dollars and Elecraft would do just
fine. Offer the company double their profitable selling price and they are
delighted to take it. Why not? Mail a check now? If the price is determined
by what we are willing to pay, consider paying less. It is okay to pay less
guys. 73. Ron
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Phil Hystad

I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking it would be
closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the monitor which
you must supply yourself. I think the street price is possibly under $1000
though.

Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the
P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price point is the
LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an
external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer to the ball
park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of factors that
are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet though that many
hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the P3 to avoid
the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.

About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents! Your joking
of course. I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft Windows
7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft campus) and
they would beg to differ with you. They have, depending on how you
measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar development effort
that they need to recapture by selling Windows 7. Or, look at it another
way, their first several million copies of Windows 7 are still being sold
at a huge loss. You can actually read their shareholders reports and
find out some of the cost for developing Windows 7.

As for me, I will buy the P3. Cost? It is not so high that it would be
totally unreasonable I am betting.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Monty Shultes

I was gonna go with my 50 megapixel Kodak, tripod, klieg lights, Powers 
models, and take you all some pictures.  But it's too cotton-pickin cold 
here in Florida!  Sorry.

Monty  K2DLJ
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Jeff KB2M

 Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used

73 Jeff kb2m


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:40 AM
To: KM4VX
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Another price point is the LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Jeff kb2m wrote:

Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used

If you want an SDR then I'm sure that's the way to go. But I'm equally sure
there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly screen hogging
resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
of band activity. Many of those folks probably have the second receiver
already. If a standalone panadaptor is what you want, LP-Pan isn't it.

I'm wondering what extra functionality Elecraft could be building in to the
P3. I see it can do a waterfall display so I'm wondering whether it has any
features to allow digimode operation without a computer, such as Icom has in
its latest rigs. Perhaps it could use some of the screen to display more of
the decoded text than you can see on the K3 display? Perhaps you can plug a
keyboard in to directly enter text? The K3 itself already has support for
that functionality, and the P3 can access it through the serial port.

Just a thought.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread HarrytheHam

What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing.
Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00.
The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are
so enthusiastic about Elecraft;...The P-3 could sell for a few hundred
dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are talking
about more than double that price.

This is just plain silly.

First, Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at $300. Why? Because it can. Because
it has a by far dominant position in the market. Because people and
corporate entities will pay for it. Because Microsoft is in the business to
make money.

Second, I would wager that you, like most of us, have very little factual
insight into Elecraft's cost structure including: RD, manufacturing,
product marketing, distribution and order fulfillment, warranty support and
on-going customer support. Further, we have no insight into what return on
investment Elecraft's management and investors expect to see with each new
product plan and commercial launch. Subsequently, apart from market forces
(competitive products and pricing, demand, etc.) P3 pricing is going to be
highly dependent upon Elecraft pricing and margin requirements far beyond
price being defined here on the reflector... I can assure you the
probability is very great that if pricing was defined by the reflector
Elecraft and many other vendors would not be in business.

Third, and related above, the P3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at
profit... Don't know how you can make this claim. Further, what other
panadaptors? SDR-IQ is a specialty device intended for a market far broader
than panadaptor and the ham community and is highly dependent upon 3rd
party software, PC processing, etc. Softrock and LP-Post implementations are
more kit oriented also requiring additional 3rd party content. The P3, on
the other hand, appears to be designed as (a) integrated with the K3 and (b)
self-contained hardware implementation (sort of guessing here as no real
specifics released). The only recent and maybe relative comparison would be
the Yaesu DMU-2000(at $750 to $850) as an outboard, dedicated accessory
(although I would wager the P3 implementation will be far superior with
respect to technology platform and panadaptor functionality).

Keep in mind that while Elecraft's innovation, RD quality, manufacturing
quality, etc. sets the company apart from many other vendors in our hobby,
the company has to make money not only to keep its owners happy but to plow
back into the business. Don't think of it as a non-profit for the ham
community.

Harry WE1X
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation



Phil: Thanks you for your comments. You confirm everything I said about 
marketing. I stand by my comments about Microsoft and the marketing of the P-3. 
If you think the asking price is cheap then I guess that is what we will be 
paying, but we will pay it  for the reasons I stated. I also like Elecraft, but 
like some of us seek value for my money with an empahsis on more value and less 
money. 
 


Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:40:12 -0800
From: ml-node+4566854-287279...@n2.nabble.com
To: ronce...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I think the estimated $700 price is cheap.  I was thinking it would be 
closer to $1000.  There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000 
with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the monitor which 
you must supply yourself.  I think the street price is possibly under $1000 
though. 

Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the 
P3 but it does set at least one price point.  Another price point is the 
LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration.  If you buy an 
external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer to the ball 
park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of factors that 
are too variable to make any close comparison).  I bet though that many 
hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the P3 to avoid 
the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach. 

About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents!  Your joking 
of course.  I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft Windows 
7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft campus) and 
they would beg to differ with you.  They have, depending on how you 
measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar development effort 
that they need to recapture by selling Windows 7.  Or, look at it another 
way, their first several million copies of Windows 7 are still being sold 
at a huge loss.   You can actually read their shareholders reports and 
find out some of the cost for developing Windows 7. 

As for me, I will buy the P3.  Cost? It is not so high that it would be 
totally unreasonable I am betting. 

73, phil, K7PEH 



On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote: 


 
 What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing. 
 Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00. 
 The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are 
 so enthusiastic about Elecraft; hams may be called cheap but have 
 considerable discretionary spending available. The P-3 could sell for a few 
 hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are 
 talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their RD 
 investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the RD 
 investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being 
 tossed around is a bit absurd in my view.  Yeah, many of us can and will pay 
 it, but its okay to talk about 3-400 dollars and Elecraft would do just 
 fine. Offer the company double their profitable selling price and they are 
 delighted to take it. Why not? Mail a check now? If the price is determined 
 by what we are willing to pay, consider paying less. It is okay to pay less 
 guys.   73. Ron 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation



Harry: Let's keep the exchange civil. There is nothing silly about my views 
or those you put forward. You  demonstrate the success of good marketing by 
both Microsoft and Elecraft. I am not taking anything away from either, but 
this is about marketing not technology. Most of these companies are on the 
cutting edge, whether they are here or elsewhere. How you choose to view them 
is called marketing.
 


Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:08:14 -0800
From: ml-node+4566946-827498...@n2.nabble.com
To: ronce...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing. 
Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00. The 
P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are so 
enthusiastic about Elecraft;...The P-3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at 
profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are talking about more than 
double that price. 

This is just plain silly. 

First, Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at $300. Why? Because it can. Because it 
has a by far dominant position in the market. Because people and corporate 
entities will pay for it. Because Microsoft is in the business to make money. 

Second, I would wager that you, like most of us, have very little factual 
insight into Elecraft's cost structure including: RD, manufacturing, product 
marketing, distribution and order fulfillment, warranty support and on-going 
customer support. Further, we have no insight into what return on investment 
Elecraft's management and investors expect to see with each new product plan 
and commercial launch. Subsequently, apart from market forces (competitive 
products and pricing, demand, etc.) P3 pricing is going to be highly dependent 
upon Elecraft pricing and margin requirements far beyond price being defined 
here on the reflector... I can assure you the probability is very great that 
if pricing was defined by the reflector Elecraft and many other vendors would 
not be in business. 

Third, and related above, the P3 could sell for a few hundred dollars at 
profit... Don't know how you can make this claim. Further, what other 
panadaptors? SDR-IQ is a specialty device intended for a market far broader 
than panadaptor and the ham community and is highly dependent upon 3rd party 
software, PC processing, etc. Softrock and LP-Post implementations are more kit 
oriented also requiring additional 3rd party content. The P3, on the other 
hand, appears to be designed as (a) integrated with the K3 and (b) 
self-contained hardware implementation (sort of guessing here as no real 
specifics released). The only recent and maybe relative comparison would be the 
Yaesu DMU-2000(at $750 to $850) as an outboard, dedicated accessory (although I 
would wager the P3 implementation will be far superior with respect to 
technology platform and panadaptor functionality). 

Keep in mind that while Elecraft's innovation, RD quality, manufacturing 
quality, etc. sets the company apart from many other vendors in our hobby, the 
company has to make money not only to keep its owners happy but to plow back 
into the business. Don't think of it as a non-profit for the ham community. 

Harry WE1X 




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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Dave - AB7E



My comments actually had nothing to do with Elecraft.  I never said (or even 
implied) that Elecraft was slow or going about this wrong.  If I were them, I'd 
make sure that the P3 was as close to perfect as I could before I released it, 
and I'd preview the heck out of it to get as mich feedback as I could.  It's 
MUCH easier to address design/manufacturing issues when the only hardware to 
deal with are prototypes.  And in this case, I don't think the demand is going 
to suffer due to the wait.

I also think customer-sourced capitalization is a great idea for Elecraft and 
their customers, but that isn't at all what we're talking about here ... not 
yet, anyway.  Putting down a deposit on a piece of equipment with a reasonably 
firm feature list and published specs is a totally different thing than blindly 
ordering something before you know what it actually does.  The former makes 
good sense to me, the latter does not.

73,
Dave   AB7E



--Original Mail--
From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net
To: Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com,
dave.qu...@comcast.net,
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:42:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com wrote:

 Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are they?  
 I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any box, 
 even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does before 
 sending off the check.


I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.  Early ham feedback at hamfests is
essential, and it too is RD.

It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
insisting that they are slow.  You want the kind of innovation and
service they are known for, you have to wait.  It's not a flaw or
laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys.  It's
careful business.  Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
quality, low price?  (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)

I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
close to the edge these days?  Hello?  The early plunk for the K3 was
a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme.  Lot better than them
being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
unrelated reasons.  Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.

Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while.  Conservative business
practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.

And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.

73, Guy.

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Dave - AB7E


So instead there are a lot of people who want to spend three times as much 
money on a small screen just to show them a graphical display of band 
activity??  Apparently so ...

The advantage, in my opinion, of a more universal piece of SDR hardware (like 
LP-Pan or SDR-IQ) is EXACTLY that it would be able to run other software, 
either current like PowerSDR or CW Skimmer, or other applications that I am 
firmly convinced will be available in the future for things like propagation 
analysis, band activity analysis, quantifying signal distortion on received 
signals, etc.  In my opinion, the P3 could have easily been designed to do 
offer that capability as well the other more dedicated stuff it does, but for 
some reason it wasn't.

73,
Dave   AB7E


--Original Mail--
From: Julian, G4ILO julian.g4...@gmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:11:34 -0800 PST
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation



But I'm equally sure
there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly screen hogging
resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
of band activity. 

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Bob - W0GI


Considering that the P3 is a self-contained unit, $700 seems to be a
reasonable price. There is a lot more to it, then just an LP-Pan and
soundcard.  

For someone that doesn't want to deal with computer interfacing, it is
great. At the same time, it has limitations.  After using CW Skimmer, I
don't know how I lived without it. PowerSDR is also a lot of fun.

The best of both worlds would be a P3 with a usb port where the PC saw the
P3 as a soundcard. Then you could feed PowerSDR and everything else on the
PC, or use the P3 by itself.

As it stands, I really don't need a P3, but if I worked a lot of portable, I
would want one.

I think they will sell quite a few P3s.






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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation


I would beg to differ.  As a past owner of an FT-2000d with the DMU-2000 pan 
adapter I have to say 1 - that pan adapter was FAR MORE than what Elecraft has 
described the P3 would do.  It was a logging system, it was a rotor control 
with world map, it was an AF scope, it was also a pan adapter among other 
things. Plus, you could use it on ANY size screen.

Sure, there were features that needed serious refinement.. but when I purchased 
mine BRAND NEW it was still only $650 on sale.  Of course that sale never 
seemed to end, but when it did go away for a little bit, the price never went 
higher than 700 or 775 dollars.

 

In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 (if that) for a 
pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 functions is outrageous.  I would 
have thought that $500 to $650 would be the TOP number they would be targeting.

I don't know about you, but I'm not made out of money, and to even consider 
plunking down $1000 for a simple pan adapter is an absolute JOKE.

 

Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter, but I'll be keeping my 
fingers crossed that Elecraft understands that even if I have to purchase a 
$80-$150 LCD monitor, ALL of their competition is priced below that ridiculous 
mark others have talked about. 

 
LP-PAN kit = $176.75USD
LP-PAN assembled = $227.25USD

Software: FREE

1) Manufacturer: YAESU 
Item : DMU-2000 
Description : DATA MANAGEMENT UNIT FT-2000/950/5000 SERIES 
$869.95
Coupon: $80.00
YOUR HRO PRICE $789.95

 

Gigaparts:










YAESU DMU-2000
Data Management Unit for FT-2000 
 







Discounts included in price: $80.00 instant rebate expires 03/31/2010. 









 
Regular: 
  
$849.00
 

 
Discounts: 
 
-$80.00
 

 





 
Net Price: 
 
$769.00



And on and on and on Like I said, $500 to $650 is a FAIR price.  $700 is 
PUSHING it.  Just my opinion, you don't need to agree with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 From: k7...@comcast.net
 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:39:50 -0800
 To: ronce...@earthlink.net
 CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
 
 I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking it would be 
 closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
 with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the monitor which
 you must supply yourself. I think the street price is possibly under $1000
 though.
 
 Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the 
 P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price point is the
 LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an 
 external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer to the ball
 park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of factors that
 are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet though that many
 hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the P3 to avoid
 the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.
 
 About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents! Your joking
 of course. I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft Windows
 7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft campus) and
 they would beg to differ with you. They have, depending on how you
 measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar development effort
 that they need to recapture by selling Windows 7. Or, look at it another
 way, their first several million copies of Windows 7 are still being sold
 at a huge loss. You can actually read their shareholders reports and
 find out some of the cost for developing Windows 7.
 
 As for me, I will buy the P3. Cost? It is not so high that it would be
 totally unreasonable I am betting.
 
 73, phil, K7PEH
 
 
 
 On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:
 
  
  What drives the price of a new product more than anything is marketing.
  Microsoft could sell Windows 7 at profit for 50 cents but charges $149.00.
  The P-3 price is being defined here on the reflector by those of us who are
  so enthusiastic about Elecraft; hams may be called cheap but have
  considerable discretionary spending available. The P-3 could sell for a few
  hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
  talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their RD
  investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the RD
  investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
  tossed around is a bit absurd in my view. Yeah, many of us can and will pay
  it, but its okay to talk about 3-400 dollars and Elecraft would do just
  fine. Offer the company double their profitable selling price and they are
  delighted to take it. Why not? Mail a check now? If the price is determined
  by what we are willing to pay, consider paying less. It is okay to pay less
  guys. 73. Ron 
  -- 
  View this message in context: 
  http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-panadapter-at-the-Orlando-Hamcation

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

By way of comparison, $700 would buy the following PC and monitor at Costco:

Processor  Memory:

Intel® Core 2 Quad Processor Q8300 (2.5GHz)
4MB L2 cache
1333MHz Front Side Bus
6GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM memory (4 Dimms)

Drives:

640GB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
LightScribe 16x max DVD±R/RW drive

Graphics  Video:

Integrated Intel X4500 Graphics
HP 2009m Wide Movado LCD Monitor

Communications:

Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet LAN

Audio:

Integrated 7.1 channel capable sound w/ front audio ports

Keyboard  Mouse:

Amalthea wired USB keyboard
Portia wired USB mouse

Expandability (Total Slots):

Total memory slots: 4 DIMMS
1x PCIe x16
3x PCIe x1

Ports:

Front headphone and mic ports
6 x USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Back)

Operating System:

Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

Additional Software:

Microsoft® Works 9.0

Additional Information:

CPU Dimensions: 16.85 L x 6.97 W x 15.32 H
Power Supply: 300W

 Just something to think about.  Personally, I feel $700 is too much.

73,
Steve
NN4X
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Vic, K2VCO

On 2/13/10 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:

  The P-3 could sell for a few
 hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
 talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their RD
 investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the RD
 investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
 tossed around is a bit absurd in my view.

Keep in mind that the P3 is completely standalone -- you don't need to 
add a computer or a display as you do with the other options. You may or 
may not think that's a good thing, but it accounts for the price difference.

I've talked to the Elecraft people about pricing on occasion and they 
very definitely do NOT charge what the market will bear, but rather base 
their prices on a reasonable markup over the cost.
-- 
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



  Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF 
 software suite. 

Why would you brag about bringing the worst part of the 
Flex-radio to the K3?  PowerSDR is the worst interface 
in the world for a radio ... the FFT delays make the 
K3 monitor sound instantaneous. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jeff KB2M
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:56 AM
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
 Hamcation
 
 
  Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF 
 software suite. To me it's like having another radio(with 
 band stacking registers!) to compare my K3 to. When I have my 
 K3 on, I do all the tuning around with SDF-IF. My K3's knobs 
 are hardly ever used
 
 73 Jeff kb2m
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:40 AM
 To: KM4VX
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
 Hamcation
 
 Another price point is the LP-PAN and sound-card plus 
 computer configuration
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



 LP-PAN kit = $176.75USD
 LP-PAN assembled = $227.25USD

LP-Pan is not complete ... it also requires a high end soundcard, 
computer and monitor to provide up to 180 KHz span.  The P3 needs 
no additional hardware to provide 200 KHz span.  

The Yaesu DMU-2000 only puts a graphical interface on the rotor 
control that is already present in the FT-2000 ... not a usable 
control unless you happen to be using a Yaesu rotor with the SDA 
interface.  

The P3 is closest to the SDR-IQ but includes a larger case (more 
$$), display and additional processor for control.  I'd say the 
P3's price is justified in comparison to the $525 (plus computer) 
list price of the SDR-IQ.  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  



 -Original Message-
 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of The Smiths
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:44 PM
 To: k7...@comcast.net; Elecraft Reflector
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
 Hamcation
 
 
 
 I would beg to differ.  As a past owner of an FT-2000d with 
 the DMU-2000 pan adapter I have to say 1 - that pan adapter 
 was FAR MORE than what Elecraft has described the P3 would 
 do.  It was a logging system, it was a rotor control with 
 world map, it was an AF scope, it was also a pan adapter 
 among other things. Plus, you could use it on ANY size screen.
 
 Sure, there were features that needed serious refinement.. 
 but when I purchased mine BRAND NEW it was still only $650 
 on sale.  Of course that sale never seemed to end, but 
 when it did go away for a little bit, the price never went 
 higher than 700 or 775 dollars.
 
  
 
 In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 
 (if that) for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 
 functions is outrageous.  I would have thought that $500 to 
 $650 would be the TOP number they would be targeting.
 
 I don't know about you, but I'm not made out of money, and to 
 even consider plunking down $1000 for a simple pan adapter is 
 an absolute JOKE.
 
  
 
 Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter, but I'll 
 be keeping my fingers crossed that Elecraft understands that 
 even if I have to purchase a $80-$150 LCD monitor, ALL of 
 their competition is priced below that ridiculous mark others 
 have talked about. 
 
  
 LP-PAN kit = $176.75USD
 LP-PAN assembled = $227.25USD
 
 Software: FREE
 
 1) Manufacturer: YAESU 
 Item : DMU-2000 
 Description : DATA MANAGEMENT UNIT FT-2000/950/5000 SERIES 
 $869.95
 Coupon: $80.00
 YOUR HRO PRICE $789.95
 
  
 
 Gigaparts:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 YAESU DMU-2000
 Data Management Unit for FT-2000 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Discounts included in price: $80.00 instant rebate expires 
 03/31/2010. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 Regular: 
   
 $849.00
  
 
  
 Discounts: 
  
 -$80.00
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
  
 Net Price: 
  
 $769.00
 
 
 
 And on and on and on Like I said, $500 to $650 is a FAIR 
 price.  $700 is PUSHING it.  Just my opinion, you don't need 
 to agree with it.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
  From: k7...@comcast.net
  Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:39:50 -0800
  To: ronce...@earthlink.net
  CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando 
  Hamcation
  
  I think the estimated $700 price is cheap. I was thinking 
 it would be
  closer to $1000. There is a similar product from Yaesu, the DMU-2000
  with a list price of $1400 and it does not even include the 
 monitor which
  you must supply yourself. I think the street price is 
 possibly under $1000
  though.
  
  Now, we do not know how close or far apart the DMU-2000 is from the
  P3 but it does set at least one price point. Another price 
 point is the
  LP-PAN and sound-card plus computer configuration. If you buy an 
  external USB sound card then you are starting to get closer 
 to the ball
  park area of the $700 (of course, depending on all kinds of 
 factors that
  are too variable to make any close comparison). I bet 
 though that many
  hams would gladly pay several hundred dollars more for the 
 P3 to avoid
  the hassle of doing up their own solution using the LP-PAN approach.
  
  About Microsoft selling Windows 7 at a profit for 50 cents! Your 
  joking of course. I have a number of good friends on the Microsoft 
  Windows 7 product team (I live about 4 miles from the Microsoft 
  campus) and they would beg to differ with you. They have, 
 depending on 
  how you measure it which is not easy, a multi-billion dollar 
  development effort that they need to recapture by selling 
 Windows 7. 
  Or, look at it another way, their first several million copies of 
  Windows 7 are still being sold at a huge loss. You can 
 actually read 
  their shareholders reports and find out some of the cost for 
  developing Windows 7.
  
  As for me, I will buy the P3. Cost? It is not so high that 
 it would be 
  totally unreasonable I am betting.
  
  73, phil, K7PEH
  
  
  
  On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:23 AM

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Dave - AB7E wrote:

The advantage, in my opinion, of a more universal piece of SDR hardware
(like LP-Pan or SDR-IQ) is EXACTLY that it would be able to run other
software, either current like PowerSDR or CW Skimmer, or other
applications that I am firmly convinced will be available in the future
for things like propagation analysis, band activity analysis, quantifying
signal distortion on received signals, etc. In my opinion, the P3 could
have easily been designed to do offer that capability as well the other
more dedicated stuff it does, but for some reason it wasn't.

But there is no real advantage in Elecraft bringing out a me too version
of the LP-Pan or SDR-IQ. By making the P3 a standalone product they are
providing an alternative that is likely to be appealing for the same reasons
people chose a K3 over a Flex Radio.

I do agree it could be useful to bring out the I/Q signals from the
panadapter so they could be used by external software but for all any of us
knows it may have that capability. If it doesn't then now is the opportunity
to let Elecraft know that it should have it.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation



The Smiths wrote:
 
 In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 (if that)
 for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 functions is outrageous. 
 I would have thought that $500 to $650 would be the TOP number they would
 be targeting.
 
 Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter
 
So $50 is the difference between acceptable and outrageous? Anyone who
thinks it is too expensive doesn't have to buy it. No doubt there will be
plenty of used LP-PANs for sale when the P3 actually comes out.

As far as I am concerned all ham radio purchases are luxuries anyway so just
like buying my K3 it's only a question of do I want it and can I afford it.
If I do and I can then I'll buy it, if I don't or I can't then I won't. I'll
save the value comparisons for things I *have* to buy whether I want to or
not like a new fridge or washing machine.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

Fair enough, you make a good point, $50 is a little close.. So I would say that
$525 to $600 should be the top number. I'll take the extra $100 you want to
over pay and use it to help buy me another Begali or GHD Key! :)

(let's not even get into those numbers!)

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:50:15 -0800
From: julian.g4...@gmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

The Smiths wrote:

In my personal opinion, for Elecraft to charge more than $700 (if that)
for a pan adapter that does only one or at best 2 functions is outrageous.
I would have thought that $500 to $650 would be the TOP number they would
be targeting.

Yes, I will most likely purchase the P3 pan adapter

So $50 is the difference between acceptable and outrageous? Anyone who
thinks it is too expensive doesn't have to buy it. No doubt there will be
plenty of used LP-PANs for sale when the P3 actually comes out.

As far as I am concerned all ham radio purchases are luxuries anyway so just
like buying my K3 it's only a question of do I want it and can I afford it.
If I do and I can then I'll buy it, if I don't or I can't then I won't. I'll
save the value comparisons for things I *have* to buy whether I want to or
not like a new fridge or washing machine.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation


I understand that there is a need for a reasonable mark up, and I understand 
that there's also a need to pay for the RD.  However, some times you have to 
decide if your product is worth producing based on the amount of sales that it 
will generate.  And not by way of how can you pay all of your RD back in a 
matter of the most minimal time.  Not thinking about how many of these units 
they will potentially sell as time progresses.

If this is all that the P3 is about, than they need to re-consider selling it.  
Or anything that they make and sell for a price that seems to be $100 to $175 
off market. (This assuming that the price IS going to be $700 plus)
I would rather know that I can buy a VERY nice home computer, with monitor, and 
then install the FREE software with a $250 interface box and then be able to 
not only run the Pan adapter program, but all of my accounting, my Internet 
browsing and thousands of other things on that same very computer for the same 
price as a single operation device.

Yes, the stand alone box is very nice indeed, but it's not as if I'm going to 
be saving anything that a nice laptop computer can't give me in the same amount 
of space.  Even if I go Portable, with a laptop I don't have to worry about 
powering a second device, nor do I have to worry about the logging, because 
it's already incorporated in the same device, along with everything that HRD  
or any other control software can do with the K3 also...

I know that none of my posts are going to change the price of the P3 right 
before it's released.  That's obvious by the same way it appears they didn't 
listen to some of us when we requested a Mouse, Keyboard and perhaps even VGA 
output on the box as well.  But someone has to be outspoken and say something 
about the pricing on this device.  This isn't a personal attack on anyone, or 
the company.  This is just a way of expressing my opinion based on other Pan 
adapters that I have purchased in the past.

 
 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:39:41 -0800
 From: v...@rakefet.com
 To: ronce...@earthlink.net
 CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation
 
 On 2/13/10 8:23 AM, KM4VX wrote:
 
  The P-3 could sell for a few
  hundred dollars at profit, similar to other panadapters. Instead, we are
  talking about more than double that price. Companies recover their RD
  investments over time, and the higher the selling price the shorter the RD
  investment recovery period. How about a breather here? The $700 price being
  tossed around is a bit absurd in my view.
 
 Keep in mind that the P3 is completely standalone -- you don't need to 
 add a computer or a display as you do with the other options. You may or 
 may not think that's a good thing, but it accounts for the price difference.
 
 I've talked to the Elecraft people about pricing on occasion and they 
 very definitely do NOT charge what the market will bear, but rather base 
 their prices on a reasonable markup over the cost.
 -- 
 Vic, K2VCO
 Fresno CA
 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

One interesting feature Wayne showed was the ability to line up
vertical line with a spot on the display, tap the knob (the lower
right hand one), and it would QSY the rig there.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Craig D. Smith cr...@powersmith.net wrote:
 There are indeed less expensive ways to display the frequency spectrum on
 your PC screen, including the LP-pan which has received well-deserved praise
 and acceptance.  But many people prefer a self-contained solution, which
 will be provided by the P3.  What is an acceptable price for this is a very
 individual judgment.  What has not been pointed out in the recent flurry of
 discussion, however, is that the P3 will be more than just a panadapter
 display.  It will provide some additional functions for the K3 which will
 improve the user ergonomics.  Neither I nor any of us outsiders know the
 extent of this added functionality, but no doubt extra labeled function
 macro keys at a minimum.  I'm inclined to place an order at the official
 announcement date and then evaluate the new features and user comments prior
 to the ship date.  I expect that the P3 will be a continuously evolving
 product just like the K3 is.

 73  Craig  AC0DS




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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
very poorly and aren't treated all that well either.  The P3 is a labor
of love put together by a select few engineers.  Its probably built by
people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
living wage...

Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
the sale!  You're not going to get that from the company that made that
computer.  You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
documentation written up on how to perform the mods.  Not to mention
that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
own.  You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!

Just something to think about!  Personally I see it as a little high but
still yet very fair!

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 16:00 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
 By way of comparison, $700 would buy the following PC and monitor at Costco:
 
 Processor  Memory:
 
 Intel® Core 2 Quad Processor Q8300 (2.5GHz)
 4MB L2 cache
 1333MHz Front Side Bus
 6GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM memory (4 Dimms)
 
 Drives:
 
 640GB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
 LightScribe 16x max DVD±R/RW drive
 
 Graphics  Video:
 
 Integrated Intel X4500 Graphics
 HP 2009m Wide Movado LCD Monitor
 
 Communications:
 
 Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet LAN
 
 Audio:
 
 Integrated 7.1 channel capable sound w/ front audio ports
 
 Keyboard  Mouse:
 
 Amalthea wired USB keyboard
 Portia wired USB mouse
 
 Expandability (Total Slots):
 
 Total memory slots: 4 DIMMS
 1x PCIe x16
 3x PCIe x1
 
 Ports:
 
 Front headphone and mic ports
 6 x USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Back)
 
 Operating System:
 
 Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
 
 Additional Software:
 
 Microsoft® Works 9.0
 
 Additional Information:
 
 CPU Dimensions: 16.85 L x 6.97 W x 15.32 H
 Power Supply: 300W
 
  Just something to think about.  Personally, I feel $700 is too much.
 
 73,
 Steve
 NN4X
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I also would like to see the config menu blow out to the P3 if you have
it...

So you open the config menu an then you get to see all the parameters
and their current values displayed over on the larger LCD.  Then you can
scroll to the one you want to change and turn the other knob to change
its value.  

But it would be nice to get a snapshot of things all at once rather than
individually scrolling through them one by one.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 09:11 -0800, Julian, G4ILO wrote:
 
 Jeff kb2m wrote:
  
   Don't forget that the LP Pan allows you to run the SDR-IF software suite.
  To me it's like having another radio(with band stacking registers!) to
  compare my K3 to. When I have my K3 on, I do all the tuning around with
  SDF-IF. My K3's knobs are hardly ever used
  
  
 If you want an SDR then I'm sure that's the way to go. But I'm equally sure
 there are a lot of people who don't want the huge ugly screen hogging
 resource hogging PowerSDR application just to show them a graphical display
 of band activity. Many of those folks probably have the second receiver
 already. If a standalone panadaptor is what you want, LP-Pan isn't it.
 
 I'm wondering what extra functionality Elecraft could be building in to the
 P3. I see it can do a waterfall display so I'm wondering whether it has any
 features to allow digimode operation without a computer, such as Icom has in
 its latest rigs. Perhaps it could use some of the screen to display more of
 the decoded text than you can see on the K3 display? Perhaps you can plug a
 keyboard in to directly enter text? The K3 itself already has support for
 that functionality, and the P3 can access it through the serial port.
 
 Just a thought.
 
 -
 Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
 * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
 * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
 * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

It wouldn't be inconceivable that the CW Skimmer functionality could be
implemented into the P3.  They already have CW decode in the K3...  All
they have do to is detect the signals and feed them into the same
algorithm.  Then if you want just detect whats after the de's and
display calls only if you want..

~Brett

On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:15 -0800, Bob - W0GI wrote:
 Considering that the P3 is a self-contained unit, $700 seems to be a
 reasonable price. There is a lot more to it, then just an LP-Pan and
 soundcard.  
 
 For someone that doesn't want to deal with computer interfacing, it is
 great. At the same time, it has limitations.  After using CW Skimmer, I
 don't know how I lived without it. PowerSDR is also a lot of fun.
 
 The best of both worlds would be a P3 with a usb port where the PC saw the
 P3 as a soundcard. Then you could feed PowerSDR and everything else on the
 PC, or use the P3 by itself.
 
 As it stands, I really don't need a P3, but if I worked a lot of portable, I
 would want one.
 
 I think they will sell quite a few P3s.
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation


The P3 looks and appears to act much like the excellent screen which is
integrated into my IC 756 PRO 3. Since we like the K3 so much Elecraft
decided to compete with a separate panadapter like the P3,  rather than a
K4. I think the LP-PAN  kit for $175.00, with free software connected to a
computer that anyone who wants a panadapter has anyway,  represents a much
better  investment for me. I can run all sorts of software with the LP-PAN. 
The P3 is just the scope addition to the 756 in its own box. I don't think
the  P3 market is there except as we are now marketing it. This is a
sophisticated and tech savvy group; maybe just too loose with its cash  Of
course I will be proven wrong, which is okay because I wish the company all
the best. 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-P3-panadapter-at-the-Orlando-Hamcation-tp4564111p4568597.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

They would have refunded your money if you wanted to back out you
weren't sucked into anything.

~Brett


On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:08 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
 Guy -
 
 Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
 promising wildly optimistic delivery dates.  I consider that to be a highly
 questionable business practice.
 
 
 On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV 
 olin...@bellsouth.netwrote:
 
  On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com
  wrote:
  
   Are the feature list and specifications now firm?  And if so, what are
  they?  I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
  box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
  before sending off the check.
  
 
  I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
  model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
  event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.  Early ham feedback at hamfests is
  essential, and it too is RD.
 
  It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
  insisting that they are slow.  You want the kind of innovation and
  service they are known for, you have to wait.  It's not a flaw or
  laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys.  It's
  careful business.  Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
  do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
  quality, low price?  (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
  at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)
 
  I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
  close to the edge these days?  Hello?  The early plunk for the K3 was
  a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme.  Lot better than them
  being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
  unrelated reasons.  Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
  financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
  note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.
 
  Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while.  Conservative business
  practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
  peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
  down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
  what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.
 
  And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
  gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
  the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
  come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.
 
  73, Guy.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I'm waiting for someone to take a VIDEO so that we can see the refresh
rate of the thing  But from the sounds of it it sounds like there
are still a lot of optimizations that are going on to attempt to improve
that refresh rate...

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 16:57 -0600, Dave Quick - KØEKL wrote:
 Below is a link to a couple photos of the new Elecraft P3 panadapter which I
 took today at the Orlando Hamcation.
  
 Eric, WA6HHQ, said he expected the price to be around $700.00 (no commitment
 here - price subject to change)  and he hopes to begin shipping sometime in
 April. He said that production and shipping is limited by availability of
 the LCD screen vendor to supply product.
  
 Here's the link: www.flickr.com/photos/47514...@n06/
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

I'm not happy with the expeceted price of the P3, but even I know that I'm not 
getting sucked into anything... Did he really think that once he paid his 
money he couldn't back out? Seriously? Highly questionable business practice? 
Please

 From: br...@livecomputers.com
 To: nn4x.st...@gmail.com
 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:04:50 -0800
 CC: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

 They would have refunded your money if you wanted to back out you
 weren't sucked into anything.

 ~Brett

 On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 11:08 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
  Guy -

  Please don't forget that Elecraft sucked in quite a few of us on the K3 by
  promising wildly optimistic delivery dates. I consider that to be a highly
  questionable business practice.

  On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV 
  olin...@bellsouth.netwrote:

   On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Dave - AB7E xda...@cis-broadband.com
   wrote:

Are the feature list and specifications now firm? And if so, what are
   they? I would have thought that anyone contemplating spending $700 for any
   box, even with the Elecraft name on it, would want to know what it does
   before sending off the check.

   I should note that putting a prototype, and then later a working early
   model in front of the public for comment at some convention-style
   event, is RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. Early ham feedback at hamfests is
   essential, and it too is RD.

   It's only the customers (and pent up demand) that are mistakenly
   insisting that they are slow. You want the kind of innovation and
   service they are known for, you have to wait. It's not a flaw or
   laziness, or some kind of commie plot to rob us of our toys. It's
   careful business. Good stuff at good prices is the hardest thing to
   do. What was that thing, you can have two of the three, quick,
   quality, low price? (Personally, I'm betting quality AND low price is
   at the root of the amp thing, I'll wait.)

   I wonder if anyone has noticed businesses going down for getting even
   close to the edge these days? Hello? The early plunk for the K3 was
   a VOLUNTARY early alternative financing scheme. Lot better than them
   being leveraged by a bank that pulls the plug on them for completely
   unrelated reasons. Any Rip Van Winkle types please check the
   financials for the last couple of years for historical information and
   note that Ronald Reagan is not president any more.

   Personally, I want Elecraft around for a while. Conservative business
   practices with no screeching tires at cliff's edge is just super
   peachy fine by me. There is no TARP fund bailout for Elecraft. They go
   down, we're back to getting our stuff from Yakencom and stuck with
   what they decide for us, whether we like it or not.

   And some folks WOULD plunk now for unfirm features (and there's no big
   gorilla around MAKING anyone plunk -- it's a CHOICE one makes), with
   the personal SELF-assurance that if it isn't what they want, they can
   come here and sell it on the reflector, fast.

   73, Guy.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Phil Hystad

Does anyone know if this is a kit (likely a simple kit?) or something that is 
all ready to be plugged in and used?

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Don Wilhelm

To all,

Let's stay cool on the speculation here for a while until more facts are 
available.  Eric is in Orlando, and I am certain when he returns, there 
will be information on the Elecraft website about the P3, and maybe even 
the price.  Wait until at least Wednesday so Eric can clear his email 
overload on Monday and Tuesday!

The cost of the P3 will be what it can be.  Elecraft must figure out how 
is allocated to the R  D budget, how much for productions costs, etc.
Eric and Wayne will make that cost as low as practical - IMHO, there is 
no sense in us speculating on how much it should be.
In the end, we each will have to make our decisions based on our own 
perceived value-added for our operating experience.

I for one will not likely buy the P3, maybe later, but definitely not at 
this time.  I do not have need nor desire for a standalone panoramic 
display.  Yes, I am working on a Z1/Softrock solution to add that 
function to my K3.  I do not mind having a computer up and running while 
I am hamming - that is a normal state of affairs for me.  I will wait 
and see how my homebrew LP-PAN works out for me - I foresee benefit when 
I run digital modes, but just how much remains to be seen - I may or may 
not like it.

The bottom line is - All this haggling about what the top price should 
be - well, that is your individual clip point - it will not be the same 
for everyone.  Some will buy it at any cost, just because it is Elecraft 
and matches the K3, and on the other end of the scale, there are those 
who must weigh the benefit for their operation against the actual cost 
and make a decision about the P3 or some other alternative.  I for one 
do not take my K3 along on trips or DXpeditions (I take my QRP K2), but 
I can see benefit for the standalone P3 for those who do want to take 
that sort of package with them.  In the end, each will have to weight 
the advantages and disadvantages against their ham budget and operating 
desires, then reach a conclusion.  Too much pre-mature and speculative 
posting on this subject has already transpired in my opinion. but have 
at it, my delete key is now working.

73,
Don W3FPR


The Smiths wrote:
 Fair enough, you make a good point, $50 is a little close.. So I would say 
 that $525 to $600 should be the top number.  I'll take the extra $100 you 
 want to over pay and use it to help buy me another Begali or GHD Key!  :) 

 (let's not even get into those numbers!)
  
   

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation

2010-02-13 Thread Ted Roycraft

I had the IC756PRO series from 2001 to last August and at first I was 
impressed with the scope function but in a short time I found that it 
was not terribly useful but was fun to look at.  It was lacking a 
waterfall capability which the P3 (as well as PowerSDR-IF) had which 
makes all the difference.  Also, the bandwidth displayed by the 756PRO 
is much less than that capable of the P3 and PowerDDR-IF.  I'm afraid 
that the scope display of the 756PRO doesn't come close to the 
usefulness P3, from what I've seen, or to PowerSDR-IF.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 2/13/2010 8:04 PM, KM4VX wrote:
 The P3 looks and appears to act much like the excellent screen which is
 integrated into my IC 756 PRO 3. Since we like the K3 so much Elecraft
 decided to compete with a separate panadapter like the P3,  rather than a
 K4. I think the LP-PAN  kit for $175.00, with free software connected to a
 computer that anyone who wants a panadapter has anyway,  represents a much
 better  investment for me. I can run all sorts of software with the LP-PAN.
 The P3 is just the scope addition to the 756 in its own box. I don't think
 the  P3 market is there except as we are now marketing it. This is a
 sophisticated and tech savvy group; maybe just too loose with its cash  Of
 course I will be proven wrong, which is okay because I wish the company all
 the best.


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft P3 panadapter at the Orlando Hamcation