Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I kind of do both. I have a laptop on a shelf above the radios. I use the screen as a secondary monitor, although it's literally a pain in the neck to do so. Then I have a wireless keyboard/mouse on the desk along with a another monitor. So in essence I have a similar setup, except mine keeps running for a few hours if the power fails. The K3 is on a 100 AH AGM battery so it keeps on ticking too. If I want to operate portable, the laptop is ready to go with all of the software needed and an up-to-date log. Wes Stewart N7WS --- On Fri, 11/19/10, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: M Igor, I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes up more desk space than a desktop. If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote: I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using laptop in the hamshack. They require less space They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically They do not need separate UPS And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR) That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay with RS232 for the time being. 73, Igor UA9CDC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: I have another solution (sort of tongue-in-cheek) for those who want the USB directly on the K3 rather than converting it to serial out of the computer. Or go wireless! Heh. http://www.aircable.net/products/serial5.php 73, Byron N6NUL (trying to be funny, probably failing) -- - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Hi Don, Without deviating too far from the current discourse at hand, the reason I was interested in any USB developments related more to DXpeditions and the amount of gear required to facilitate PC connections. To me, reducing the amount of items needed that could potentially be forgotten, lost, or broken could make or break an event. Sure, the K3 works superbly with its current KIO3 configuration, but what if the laptops or computers brought don't have a serial port, or the adapter breaks, or if audio patch cables get lost in transit? A USB interface and cable that provides all necessary data and audio would be ideal in such a situation. Anyway, this was the only reason I was curious. Tnx, Jim K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 23:19:19 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Reply-To: d...@w3fpr.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Igor, I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes up more desk space than a desktop. If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote: I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using laptop in the hamshack. They require less space They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically They do not need separate UPS And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR) That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay with RS232 for the time being. 73, Igor UA9CDC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I use a laptop with an external keyboard, wireless mouse, and external monitor. Besides being space-saving, using the same computer when I travel, it saves the hassle of updating files files back and forth between computers. I simply unplug the USB hub, video connector and power supply from the computer, and I'm on my way. Barry W2UP Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes up more desk space than a desktop. If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop. 73, Don W3FPR -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-tp5753862p5758551.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port/CM500/FT5000
These 3 topics have dominated this reflector for the past 2 weeks. Guys, please search the archives before you post. Some of these questions have been answered before, in fact, Eric asked for the USB thread(s) to end, yet they still keep coming. Please save the band width for topics that may prove to be new and worthwhile reading. I have 60+ emails in my Deleted Items folder just from today so far!! Any cut back in this topics will be appreciated. Thank you, de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com K3 S/N - 3278P3 S/N - 51 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - give the guy a BREAK!
Let Elecraft alone.If they want rs232 vs USB so be it. Why be like the cheap imitators. Laeey N1SZZ -Original Message- From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 5:02 am Subject: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - give the guy a BREAK! I have to object to the course that this thread instantly turned to. K2QI's very reasonable post reads (edited) snip] uoting Wayne: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with ne that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned or this. Quoting K2QI Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard nything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. end snip] KR2Q comments: or me, this should have been a simple matter of No, I have not heard nything additional or Yes, it is still on the list. Zombie Thread? Gosh.For cryin' out loudgive the guy a break! de Doug KR2Q _ lecraft mailing list ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm ost: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas
Who really needs a USB port on the K3? The converter works perfectly well... Yes, it may be possible to replace the K3IO board with one having a USB port. BUT: What are those of us using SteppIR antennas which track the K3's VFO supposed to do? The SteppIR requires an RS232. Or shall we ask SteppIR to implement a USB port in their control unit as well? Would that be worth it? IMHO, it wouldn't. I'm quite happy with the serial port and converter. 73 Richard - HB9ANM - Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5755076.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too, or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi. Thanks for your gracious input. :) Vy 73, James K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net Sender: guyk...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:40:46 To: James Sarte (K2QI)k2qi@gmail.com Cc: ElecraftElecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula. It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields. The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a complete joke. Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please... 73, Guy On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Michael, N6MQL wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Michael, you do indeed have a very unique K3. There is no audio present on J24 (RS232 CAT port) according to the schematics I downloaded from Elecraft. I think you must be thinking of the accessory connector. 73s Jim, W4ATK On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:59 AM, k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too, or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi. Thanks for your gracious input. :) Vy 73, James K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net Sender: guyk...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:40:46 To: James Sarte (K2QI)k2qi@gmail.com Cc: ElecraftElecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula. It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields. The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a complete joke. Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please... 73, Guy On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html JIM ROGERS w4...@bellsouth.net http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I can understand why a lot of old timers want to stay with serial port for the K3. Many people just don't like change. The simple fact is the world has moved on Something like 15 years ago. USB is the standard and a product like the K3 which In many ways is cutting edge should move on also. When was the last time you saw a new computer with serial port or a floppy drive? It can't be that hard to change to USB. There are plenty of $10 items that support it So it must be cheep. I figure it is a lack of will on Elecraft's part. As to the negative comments...Can't and won't never did anything. Dan N0DT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:51 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Let me get this straight, and you have NO audio cable from the K3 to the computer? And, you're getting audio on the computer through the RS-232 cable? So what's the purpose of the Line IN/Line OUT jacks? Is the computer mic 'live' and picking up from the speaker(s)? confused, bc nr4c Quoting The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
James, don't be sorry, my opinion is just that, my opinion. I see absolutely no advantage to making the change. 73, Mike On 11/18/2010 7:57 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hi Mike, I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB option was still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with its current KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had already pointed out to me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a dead horse. I guess I must have missed those emails; sorry for bringing it up. 73, James K2QI On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike n...@nf4l.com mailto:n...@nf4l.com wrote: I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Sorry James but sometimes sitting in pile up that is out of control brings out the worst in us! This is one of those threads that seems to surface every few weeks to all the same responses but your question about the status of current thinking on the subject is different I guess. Personally, I'm happy with the present set up, but will be happier when I find a quieter adaptor. May break down and get the KUSB since that darn P3 has shown me that the IOGear one I use it pretty darn noisy! Rick K6LE On 11/19/2010, at 4:59 , k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too, or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi. Thanks for your gracious input. :) Vy 73, James K2QI Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Hi Rick, I would suggest the Keyspan USB to Serial adapter over the KUSB. With the KUSB, I always had problems with it when using programs like HRD or DM780. I believe that was due to the drivers being used. OTOH, the Keyspan unit works very well and does not seem to add any additional noise into the equation. It also seems to be well shielded from stray RF. 73, James K2QI On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Rick Prather k6limae...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry James but sometimes sitting in pile up that is out of control brings out the worst in us! This is one of those threads that seems to surface every few weeks to all the same responses but your question about the status of current thinking on the subject is different I guess. Personally, I'm happy with the present set up, but will be happier when I find a quieter adaptor. May break down and get the KUSB since that darn P3 has shown me that the IOGear one I use it pretty darn noisy! Rick K6LE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Speaking of USB to COM adapters, I recently replaced one due to RF getting in, affecting my CW keying. The one I bought was an EasySync ES-U-1002-M. It is made for industrial use, is in a nice sturdy metal box, and had 2 serial ports (FTDI chipset). I got it on Ebay for $15.99 + shipping and it works like a charm with no RFI problems (so far). -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-tp5753862p5755698.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
James, You may have gotten the older Prolific chipset KUSB. The new ones are FTDI chipsets and have NO problems with those programs. 73, Don, WB5HAK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Don, yes I do recall now that the drivers were for the Prolific chipset. That cable never worked properly for me, and I ended up ditching it in favor of a Keyspan which uses the FTDI chipset. 73, Jim K2QI On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Don Cunningham wb5...@martineer.netwrote: James, You may have gotten the older Prolific chipset KUSB. The new ones are FTDI chipsets and have NO problems with those programs. 73, Don, WB5HAK -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Since the day it first powered on, my K3, #3192, has featured full USB radio CAT/keyer support with dual channel embedded audio I/O. All I need to do is plug a single USB cable in to any computer for all of this functionality with any popular logger/rig control software. Totally painless and plug and play on any recent MS OS, from Win2k to Win 7, on laptops, desktops and even netbooks (I've tried them all). What is it? Its called The microHAM microKEYER 2 :) Paperclip reliable, no RF pickup, works with Dynamic or Electret mics, dual receive compatible for dual RX RTTY, keys CW, RTTY, PSK, HellScrhiber, THROB, Stream, (in fact, every digital soundcard mode I have ever tried), built-in DVK, and CW memories, Two Tone test signals and features a setup/management GUI you can use to customize it. Dont want to use the computer? Its also a self contained keyer with a built in WinKey chip. It also can display your other VFO/KRX3 frequency in its LCD display when the display on the K3 is being used for other things, like RIT or CW Decode. And it impersonates a Icom rig, allowing you to directly interface to things that use the CI-V bus natively; helpful in my all Icom club environment when I bring in my K3 to use the microHAM antenna switching system... everything works just like the 7700 or Pro2's were connected to the Station Masters without any reprogramming! Just plug the CI-V cable in and go! Folks, you've just spent over 3 grand on a high performance radio... Spend the extra $430 for a high performance interface to match it, and you will never want to use anything else. -lu-w4lt- K3 # 3192 Message: 11 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:28:14 -0500 From: n...@widomaker.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 20101119082814.73272qtssn1bz...@webmail.widomaker.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp=Yes; format=flowed Let me get this straight, and you have NO audio cable from the K3 to the computer? And, you're getting audio on the computer through the RS-232 cable? So what's the purpose of the Line IN/Line OUT jacks? Is the computer mic 'live' and picking up from the speaker(s)? confused, bc nr4c __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas
Yes, actually you SHOULD be asking SteppIR to get with the 21th century... LOL. Maybe it's time that they realize the 9 pin serial port has been done away with for the most part. Try to find a standard intel board that is produced with one today.. I only mention Intel because they are now making the hardware for both PC and Mac, which dominate this world. Still, I have no issue with the 9pin, it's working for me, but some day I may choose to upgrade my shack computer to something better than a P4 3GHz. And no, I shouldn't have to use an adapter cable to do it. T. Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:40:04 -0800 From: hb9...@bluewin.ch To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas Who really needs a USB port on the K3? The converter works perfectly well... Yes, it may be possible to replace the K3IO board with one having a USB port. BUT: What are those of us using SteppIR antennas which track the K3's VFO supposed to do? The SteppIR requires an RS232. Or shall we ask SteppIR to implement a USB port in their control unit as well? Would that be worth it? IMHO, it wouldn't. I'm quite happy with the serial port and converter. 73 Richard - HB9ANM - Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5755076.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Most likely this is being picked up by the internal/external microphone on your PC. We only ship digital control data out the RS-232 port on the K3. 73, Eric WA6HHQ www.elecraft.com --- On 11/18/2010 9:32 PM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas
HI The USB/Cable adapter + RS232 is, at least, a solution which ensures a perfect compatibility for the future of any operating system. Unfortunatly an USB port is dependant on the willingness of the manufacturer of the chip. Not an RS232 port that you can use on any system. To understand, I suggest you try an ICOM IC-1500 (which features only an USB port) under W7/64 bits!... But you are right right : RS232 ports are obsolete; but if an USB port is a good solution for a cheap webcam, it is not a solution for long life equipement like transceivers since it is compatible with a limited number of systems. In my humble opinion, the way to go is a TCP/IP port with all parameters accessible from any browser on any system... and with a bonus... remotely (like a cable/dsl modem). It is strange that none of the current manufacturers develop such system (except TenTec with the OmniVII but with limited capabilities since it does not include a web server). Logging control should not be a problem with a TCP/IP server. 73, Laurent F6DEX - Laurent F6DEX -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5756656.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas
Try to find a standard intel board that is produced with one today.. Go to www.newegg.com or www.tigerdirect.com ... you can find dozens of quality motherboards from more than half a dozen top quality board houses with at least one and in some cases two serial ports. Even the Intel chip set *INCLUDES* two serial ports - Intel simply does not provide the interface circuits and connectors on their commodity motherboards. The lack of serial ports on many consumer level computers is simply a COST REDUCTION MEASURE - not a statement about the technology. By the way, when are you going to include your NAME AND CALL as the list policy requires? Or do you think you are exempt? 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:33 PM, The Smiths wrote: Yes, actually you SHOULD be asking SteppIR to get with the 21th century... LOL. Maybe it's time that they realize the 9 pin serial port has been done away with for the most part. Try to find a standard intel board that is produced with one today.. I only mention Intel because they are now making the hardware for both PC and Mac, which dominate this world. Still, I have no issue with the 9pin, it's working for me, but some day I may choose to upgrade my shack computer to something better than a P4 3GHz. And no, I shouldn't have to use an adapter cable to do it. T. Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:40:04 -0800 From: hb9...@bluewin.ch To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas Who really needs a USB port on the K3? The converter works perfectly well... Yes, it may be possible to replace the K3IO board with one having a USB port. BUT: What are those of us using SteppIR antennas which track the K3's VFO supposed to do? The SteppIR requires an RS232. Or shall we ask SteppIR to implement a USB port in their control unit as well? Would that be worth it? IMHO, it wouldn't. I'm quite happy with the serial port and converter. 73 Richard - HB9ANM - Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5755076.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs. T. Smith Short Wave Listener. Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I would like to think that as hams we were technologically savvy enough not to just want change for change's sake. Unless you have a laptop for the shack PC (in which case the question why? springs to mind) there is no problem with using RS232. I have a 4 port serial card in my shack PC and all of them are used. This leaves my USB ports free for things they really are needed for, such as 3 external USB sound cards (yes I have 4 radios connected up to my shack PC - try doing that with a laptop. And yes, I am an old timer.) Having an RS232 port does not deny those who want to use USB from doing so. It just means the cable you use isn't a passive cable but has a bulge at one end with the USB interface chips in it. RS232 also gives you the option of using nice one USB cable interface options like the MicroHam products if that better meets your needs. It's about giving people choices about how they interface their radios instead of assuming that they just want to connect it to a PC. What is so bad about that? Dan Copeland wrote: I can understand why a lot of old timers want to stay with serial port for the K3. Many people just don't like change. The simple fact is the world has moved on Something like 15 years ago. USB is the standard and a product like the K3 which In many ways is cutting edge should move on also. When was the last time you saw a new computer with serial port or a floppy drive? It can't be that hard to change to USB. There are plenty of $10 items that support it So it must be cheep. I figure it is a lack of will on Elecraft's part. As to the negative comments...Can't and won't never did anything. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-tp5753862p5756696.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I have another solution (sort of tongue-in-cheek) for those who want the USB directly on the K3 rather than converting it to serial out of the computer. Attach the serial end of the USB to serial adapter permanently into the K3 RS-232 connector, and if you need more cable to make the run to the computer, just use a USB extension cable. On a more practical side, it permits use of the SteppIR Y cable, or any other device that is similarly designed to listen in on the RS-232 communication, I think that is a solution to answer all needs - many K3 owners also run the SteppIR, and I hope they are not among those who clamor for native USB support in the K3. Those who want to use USB can then connect between the computer and the K3 (via the captive adapter) with a USB cable, and those who are more inclined to not mind running an RS-232 cable can do so easily by connecting their USB to serial adapter directly to the computer. I think this is more in the choice of cable than it is an RS-232/USB question - Yes, if the K3 has a native USB port it brings along all its problems - see the W4TV post. RS-232 is not device dependent, USB IS device dependent, and that is the real difference. I see the problem as a computer problem (no RS-232 ports), and NOT a K3 problem (there are good adapters available). When the Universal Serial Bus becomes actually universal, and not device dependent, I will likely change my mind, but right now, the only really Universal Serial Bus is the RS-232 serial port. Your definition of Universal may vary from mine. Until the support code for generating RS-232 signals disappears from operating systems, I will continue to use them - I think desktops are more suitable for the hamshack computer than a laptop - they are less expensive and more reliable -as an example of one with 2 serial ports, see the IBM ThinkCentre M52 9210 Desktop Computer for $179.95 at Tigerdirect.com, Add a monitor for $100 and you have a dedicated hamshack computer with real serial ports. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2010 2:20 PM, Lu Romero wrote: Since the day it first powered on, my K3, #3192, has featured full USB radio CAT/keyer support with dual channel embedded audio I/O. All I need to do is plug a single USB cable in to any computer for all of this functionality with any popular logger/rig control software. Totally painless and plug and play on any recent MS OS, from Win2k to Win 7, on laptops, desktops and even netbooks (I've tried them all). What is it? Its called The microHAM microKEYER 2 :) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas [END of USB threads]
Folks - Let's end the various USB threads. They are slipping lower in content and further OT. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator www.elecraft.com _..._ On Nov 19, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: Try to find a standard intel board that is produced with one today.. Go to www.newegg.com or www.tigerdirect.com ... you can find dozens of quality motherboards from more than half a dozen top quality board houses with at least one and in some cases two serial ports. Even the Intel chip set *INCLUDES* two serial ports - Intel simply does not provide the interface circuits and connectors on their commodity motherboards. The lack of serial ports on many consumer level computers is simply a COST REDUCTION MEASURE - not a statement about the technology. By the way, when are you going to include your NAME AND CALL as the list policy requires? Or do you think you are exempt? 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:33 PM, The Smiths wrote: Yes, actually you SHOULD be asking SteppIR to get with the 21th century... LOL. Maybe it's time that they realize the 9 pin serial port has been done away with for the most part. Try to find a standard intel board that is produced with one today.. I only mention Intel because they are now making the hardware for both PC and Mac, which dominate this world. Still, I have no issue with the 9pin, it's working for me, but some day I may choose to upgrade my shack computer to something better than a P4 3GHz. And no, I shouldn't have to use an adapter cable to do it. T. Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:40:04 -0800 From: hb9...@bluewin.ch To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas Who really needs a USB port on the K3? The converter works perfectly well... Yes, it may be possible to replace the K3IO board with one having a USB port. BUT: What are those of us using SteppIR antennas which track the K3's VFO supposed to do? The SteppIR requires an RS232. Or shall we ask SteppIR to implement a USB port in their control unit as well? Would that be worth it? IMHO, it wouldn't. I'm quite happy with the serial port and converter. 73 Richard - HB9ANM - Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5755076.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port - and SteppIR antennas
Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: Go to www.newegg.com or www.tigerdirect.com ... you can find dozens of quality motherboards from more than half a dozen top quality board houses with at least one and in some cases two serial ports. Even the Intel chip set *INCLUDES* two serial ports - Intel simply does not provide the interface circuits and connectors on their commodity motherboards. That's true, though beside the point. Motherboards have expansion slots in them and the purpose of those slots is to add in boards. RS232 boards with 2 or 4 ports cost no more than the equivalent number of USB to serial adapters, are electrically quieter and less prone to compatibility issues. Technologically RS232 is a better solution for computer control of a radio. True you need a separate connection for audio, but then some people want to connect their radio's audio input and output to something other than a computer, for example a TNC. The lack of serial ports on many consumer level computers is simply a COST REDUCTION MEASURE - not a statement about the technology. Exactly. Why foist serial ports on Aunt Mabel who only wants to connect a mouse, keyboard and printer to her PC? The trouble with following fashion when it comes to technology is that in ten years time the USB port could be as out of date as 1970s flares today. One day it will be replaced with something else and then those USB ports on the Icom rigs will be useless while we'll still be able to get RS232 to whatever-it-is adapter cables to use with our K3s. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-give-the-guy-a-BREAK-tp5754717p5756751.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. No, I quoted you directly. It was a cut/paste from your own post. As long as you change your story and post claims that are completely impossible your postings can not be trusted. Why don't you stop causing trouble here and post your full name and the serial number of your K3 so Eric can confirm the information rather than hide behind a T. Smith and a hotmail account. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 4:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs. T. Smith Short Wave Listener. Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Oh it's the Smiths again! His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky. Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name. N4LQ Steve - Original Message - From: The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com To: li...@subich.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs. T. Smith Short Wave Listener. Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port [Thread has been officially ended.]
Folks - this thread has been officially ended. Please honor that request. In general, all of these posts, by parties criticizing one another personally, are inappropriate. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator On 11/19/2010 3:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: Oh it's the Smiths again! His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky. Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name. N4LQ Steve - Original Message - From: The Smithsnotforc...@hotmail.com To:li...@subich.com Cc: Elecraft Reflectorelecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs. T. Smith Short Wave Listener. Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Amen. Jim K4JAF - Original Message - From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com; li...@subich.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Oh it's the Smiths again! His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky. Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name. N4LQ Steve - Original Message - From: The Smiths notforc...@hotmail.com To: li...@subich.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to in order to make your point. Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the reflector. Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where it belongs. T. Smith Short Wave Listener. Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you said RS-232 input - now you say USB. Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are - and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote: No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig... T Smith SWL Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: notforc...@hotmail.com CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using laptop in the hamshack. They require less space They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically They do not need separate UPS And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR) That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay with RS232 for the time being. 73, Igor UA9CDC operating systems, I will continue to use them - I think desktops are more suitable for the hamshack computer than a laptop - they are less expensive and more reliable -as an example of one with 2 serial ports, see the 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Igor, I would agree if I could use the laptop's keyboard, but if I use a laptop with a standard (external) keyboard and mouse, the laptop takes up more desk space than a desktop. If you would choose a tower configuration desktop and place it on the floor under the desk (or mount the low profile desktop vertically), then the monitor, keyboard and mouse take up less real estate than a laptop. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2010 11:03 PM, Igor Sokolov wrote: I dare to argue with the below statement. I see several advantages in using laptop in the hamshack. They require less space They are usually less noisy both electrically and acoustically They do not need separate UPS And they are not that expensive after all. 1.6 GHz Atom processor netbook can be had for around 300 USD here and more then enough for everything needed in the hamshack (unless you need it for Skimmer or SDR) That does not mean that I support switching from RS232 to USB. I have Expert 1K-FA that is wired to listen on RS232 of my K3. Therefore I prefer we stay with RS232 for the time being. 73, Igor UA9CDC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Hi Mike, I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB option was still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with its current KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had already pointed out to me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a dead horse. I guess I must have missed those emails; sorry for bringing it up. 73, James K2QI On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike n...@nf4l.com wrote: I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Count down to thread closure... USB is Serial comms by definition (Universal SERIAL Bus). Coding for USB is not a huge hassle for software developers, at all. If it was, it never would have been adopted as a standard in 1996 (almost 15 years ago). Drivers aren't really a big issue, either, especially if you're just starting out using it as a serial DB9 replacement. I've voiced my vote for a USB port before. It opens up many other possibilities for use besides just serial comms. I realize there are other priorities, but if the other rig manufacturers can do it, I have no doubt that Elecraft can. My guess it's just a matter of when On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Mike n...@nf4l.com wrote: I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I use the USB/serial cable and for me it would mean I junk one piece of cable. Being portable, I can set up the tri-band beam on the portable mast with rotator and feedline and secure it ready to operate FASTER than I can hook up the K3, P3, interconnect cables for the P3, amplifier, inline meter, rotator cable, paddle, footswitch, cm-500 headset, external speakers..etc, etc...go figure eh?...:-) And I set myself up to be on air in 30 minutes, which I can IF I just plug in the K3 and a hand mic...:-) The toys we must have eh? But it is a blast let me tell you..:-) 73's gotta go mobile and set up again for another month of DX'ing in a town called Ravenshoe, Queensland. Gary On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:57 AM, James Sarte (K2QI) k2qi@gmail.comwrote: Hi Mike, I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB option was still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with its current KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had already pointed out to me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a dead horse. I guess I must have missed those emails; sorry for bringing it up. 73, James K2QI On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike n...@nf4l.com wrote: I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679, P3 #546 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Perhaps it's a cost issue. Isn't there a licensing fee that needs to be paid to USB, Inc., or whatever they are called, to use it? Barry W2UP -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-USB-port-tp5753862p5753984.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula. It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields. The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a complete joke. Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please... 73, Guy On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Joe, Guy... Amen. Now can we see the shipping dates for the KPA-500's and the KAT-500's please. Certainly of more interest to me at least than trying to wade through the MS-OS-BS...:-) 73's Gary (almost moving) On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.netwrote: READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula. It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields. The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a complete joke. Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please... 73, Guy On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) k2qi@gmail.com wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. -- 73 de James K2QI President UNARC/4U1UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679, P3 #546 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
Well said Guy! We should call this a Zombie Thread! Rick K6LE On 11/18/2010, at 5:40 , Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula. It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields. The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a complete joke. Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please... 73, Guy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
The PC- or MAC-K3/P3 interconnect uses RS232, daisy-chained through the P3 to the K3. Both the KIO3 and the P3's I/O board are small and probably not ridiculously expensive, so replacing them could be an option. However, putting a USB hub on the P3 doesn't seem to be in the cards (embedded hubs *ought to* go through USB certification). It's more likely that an external hub would be required - or multiple ports on the PC or MAC would be used. Using the USB logo requires membership in the USB-SIG. It's not expensive. Attending all the plugfests might be. Many companies do niether one and skip the logo. Elecraft's not like that, IMHO. There are also RFI issues with USB. Some hams on this list have come across this, but it's not a general issue AFAIK. I've only had one such, but replacing the manufacturer-supplied cable with a properly shielded one solved the problem. The original idea (if memory serves) was that many hams use downrev computer equipment, most of which support RS232 ports; any HW that doesn't can use the KUSB or an equivalent adapter. One way to approach this issue is for someone to come up with a replacement I/O board for the K3 and another for the P3 [, and someday with whatever else might be daisy-chained beyond the K3]. I've actually done a cheap-and-sleazy mockup of this and it works, but produces too much RFI to be usable. A design with some money behind it would likely not have this problem. Don't have any inside info, but USB probably isn't a high priority. Just look at the newest Elecraft products being brought to market matt W6NIA On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:06:18 -0800, you wrote: Count down to thread closure... USB is Serial comms by definition (Universal SERIAL Bus). Coding for USB is not a huge hassle for software developers, at all. If it was, it never would have been adopted as a standard in 1996 (almost 15 years ago). Drivers aren't really a big issue, either, especially if you're just starting out using it as a serial DB9 replacement. I've voiced my vote for a USB port before. It opens up many other possibilities for use besides just serial comms. I realize there are other priorities, but if the other rig manufacturers can do it, I have no doubt that Elecraft can. My guess it's just a matter of when On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Mike n...@nf4l.com wrote: I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB. I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers. If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain. If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only, you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a Pandora's box re: drivers for it. 73, Mike NF4L On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more than acoustic coupling between the K3 speaker and the computer's mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the computer's Line In jack and made that the default. There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the schematics! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists? T Smith SWL Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500 From: li...@subich.com To: k2qi@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232 converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get you audio ... To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU. After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new level so support burden - providing operating system specific drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX. By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and serialize each of those chip! After all of that you have not provided any new capability for the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware, development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound- card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to use their rig with computer control. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote: Hello group, I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3, including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009: The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now, I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup, but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to computer. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
