Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On 10/17/2016 9:47 PM, Walter Underwood wrote: > In general, good hi-fi reproducers should be good communications reproducers. I tried using a consumer-grade "hi-fi" speaker in a VHF/UHF mobile installation and the highs drove me crazy. Pulled out the original Motorola limited-range speaker from the junk box and the installation sounded like it was supposed to. The Big Emm knew what they were doing. :) 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On Tue,10/18/2016 2:04 AM, Edward R Cole wrote: Interesting you bring this up as the KL7RA (sk) super contest station had acoustic tile on the ceiling in the room with six contest stations. I noticed immediately how nice voice sounded without echos off hard surfaces. Floor was carpeted. Yes, this is VERY important in multi-op contest stations when operating SSB. The major issue is NOT sound on the air, but to minimize the sound heard by an operator while other operators are shouting into their mics. We contesters tend to get excited. Guys that have operated with the great operator Jerry, WB9Z, say that he doesn't need a mic! I visited W3LPL several years ago and noted no sound treatment at all in a room having only hard surfaces. I urged extensive sound absorbing materials. The room should NOT affect on the air sound if 1) you're working a mic within about 2 inches of your mouth, 2) TXEQ is set so that you're not transmitting below about 400 Hz, and 3) mic gain and compression are set so that you get no more than about 10 dB on voice peaks. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Ron, Interesting you bring this up as the KL7RA (sk) super contest station had acoustic tile on the ceiling in the room with six contest stations. I noticed immediately how nice voice sounded without echos off hard surfaces. Floor was carpeted. When I build my new ham 18x26 foot shack I am thinking of installing some acoustic tile over the operating position (probably not the entire ceiling). Floor will either be sealed concrete or maybe tile (embedded radiant heat in the concrete). But perhaps a area rug would dampen echos? This is how radio station booths are designed. Person on the mic sounds like next to you in your living room vs in a barn. re: speaker linearity and THD also important as freq range. I'm keeping my eight-inch National speaker in the big metal box. K3 sounds very nice with it. For very weak signals I will be trying out bluetooth direct to my hearing aids. I spent more for the hearing aids than my K3 plus accessories. 73, Ed - KL7uW Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 19:56:08 -0700 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" To: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range? Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! 73 Ron AC7AC 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On 10/17/2016 5:20 PM, Phil Townsend Lontz wrote: ... I eq the crap out of the K3 after 8K and set the tone of my CW note to 440… Near a natural “C”. to me that sounds easy and warm. When did this musical standard get changed? I've always tuned to A440. Guess I'll need to tune all my guitars differently from now on... ;>) Cheers, Gus KB0YH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
OK, I know this thread is getting too long, but… When my beloved Grado SR-60 headphones died, I used my Yamaha CM-500 phones for music. They were terrible. Not even good enough. So I ordered Grado SR-225e phones. And the cord for the SR-60 phones is part of my PTT hand switch. The CM-500 phones are back with the ham rig. In general, good hi-fi reproducers should be good communications reproducers. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Oct 17, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Doug Person wrote: > > I definitely agree with using good quality headphones for optimal listening. > But, headphones are a different psycho-acoustical experience than a speaker > system. Personally, I prefer to listen to a speaker system. Headphones VS: > Speaker system will be different for everyone. But, if you prefer speakers, i > recommend decent quality components to give you the best your "K" brand > transceiver can deliver. > > Doug -- K0DXV > > > On 10/17/16 9:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >> On Mon,10/17/2016 7:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >>> Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. >> >> When you're sitting right in front of a loudspeaker you're in its near >> field. That causes what you hear to be dominated by direct sound from the >> loudspeaker. The loudspeaker(s) excites the room, but you're so close to the >> loudspeaker that you don't hear the room response. Most recording studios >> have a pair of high quality loudspeakers mounted on top of the console for >> exactly that purpose. They also have a larger pair that DOES excite the room. >> >>> I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! >> >> Anechoic chambers are TEST environments, they are lousy listening >> environments. >> >> On Mon,10/17/2016 7:26 PM, Doug Person wrote: >>> A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly >>> adjusted radio with a good microphone. >> >> All it takes for excellent receive sound quality is a decent pair of >> headphones. The CM500, Sony MDR7506, and Etymotic Research ER4 are excellent >> choices. There are other good choices, but these are well established, >> widely available, and not expensive. All are VERY comfortable for LOOONG >> contest weekends (although comfort in the ER4 depends on matching the ear >> piece to your ear). >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to d...@k0dxv.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
I definitely agree with using good quality headphones for optimal listening. But, headphones are a different psycho-acoustical experience than a speaker system. Personally, I prefer to listen to a speaker system. Headphones VS: Speaker system will be different for everyone. But, if you prefer speakers, i recommend decent quality components to give you the best your "K" brand transceiver can deliver. Doug -- K0DXV On 10/17/16 9:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On Mon,10/17/2016 7:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. When you're sitting right in front of a loudspeaker you're in its near field. That causes what you hear to be dominated by direct sound from the loudspeaker. The loudspeaker(s) excites the room, but you're so close to the loudspeaker that you don't hear the room response. Most recording studios have a pair of high quality loudspeakers mounted on top of the console for exactly that purpose. They also have a larger pair that DOES excite the room. I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! Anechoic chambers are TEST environments, they are lousy listening environments. On Mon,10/17/2016 7:26 PM, Doug Person wrote: A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted radio with a good microphone. All it takes for excellent receive sound quality is a decent pair of headphones. The CM500, Sony MDR7506, and Etymotic Research ER4 are excellent choices. There are other good choices, but these are well established, widely available, and not expensive. All are VERY comfortable for LOOONG contest weekends (although comfort in the ER4 depends on matching the ear piece to your ear). 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@k0dxv.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Love the the Ety's in the ear with the custom ear molds. They are very comfortable too. And block out EVERY THING! What me worry? > On Oct 17, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > >> On Mon,10/17/2016 7:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. > > When you're sitting right in front of a loudspeaker you're in its near field. > That causes what you hear to be dominated by direct sound from the > loudspeaker. The loudspeaker(s) excites the room, but you're so close to the > loudspeaker that you don't hear the room response. Most recording studios > have a pair of high quality loudspeakers mounted on top of the console for > exactly that purpose. They also have a larger pair that DOES excite the room. > >> I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! > > Anechoic chambers are TEST environments, they are lousy listening > environments. > >> On Mon,10/17/2016 7:26 PM, Doug Person wrote: >> A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted >> radio with a good microphone. > > All it takes for excellent receive sound quality is a decent pair of > headphones. The CM500, Sony MDR7506, and Etymotic Research ER4 are excellent > choices. There are other good choices, but these are well established, widely > available, and not expensive. All are VERY comfortable for LOOONG contest > weekends (although comfort in the ER4 depends on matching the ear piece to > your ear). > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to phi...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
I worked with someone who had two sound-absorbing pillars in the corners of his office. Of course, he’d just recorded his 8th or 11th album, depending on how you count, and he’d produced the latest one. Mitch Easter was busy this time. I’m not nearly that picky and have some hearing loss by now, but I still miss my baby Magnaplanars (SMGa). Need to write up my cheap-ham amp & speaker setup after I have a few more miles on it. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Oct 17, 2016, at 8:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > On Mon,10/17/2016 7:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. > > When you're sitting right in front of a loudspeaker you're in its near field. > That causes what you hear to be dominated by direct sound from the > loudspeaker. The loudspeaker(s) excites the room, but you're so close to the > loudspeaker that you don't hear the room response. Most recording studios > have a pair of high quality loudspeakers mounted on top of the console for > exactly that purpose. They also have a larger pair that DOES excite the room. > >> I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! > > Anechoic chambers are TEST environments, they are lousy listening > environments. > > On Mon,10/17/2016 7:26 PM, Doug Person wrote: >> A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted >> radio with a good microphone. > > All it takes for excellent receive sound quality is a decent pair of > headphones. The CM500, Sony MDR7506, and Etymotic Research ER4 are excellent > choices. There are other good choices, but these are well established, widely > available, and not expensive. All are VERY comfortable for LOOONG contest > weekends (although comfort in the ER4 depends on matching the ear piece to > your ear). > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On Mon,10/17/2016 7:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. When you're sitting right in front of a loudspeaker you're in its near field. That causes what you hear to be dominated by direct sound from the loudspeaker. The loudspeaker(s) excites the room, but you're so close to the loudspeaker that you don't hear the room response. Most recording studios have a pair of high quality loudspeakers mounted on top of the console for exactly that purpose. They also have a larger pair that DOES excite the room. I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! Anechoic chambers are TEST environments, they are lousy listening environments. On Mon,10/17/2016 7:26 PM, Doug Person wrote: A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted radio with a good microphone. All it takes for excellent receive sound quality is a decent pair of headphones. The CM500, Sony MDR7506, and Etymotic Research ER4 are excellent choices. There are other good choices, but these are well established, widely available, and not expensive. All are VERY comfortable for LOOONG contest weekends (although comfort in the ER4 depends on matching the ear piece to your ear). 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Of course the room in which the speaker is used has a huge effect too. I dread to think we'd require anechoic chambers for Hamshacks! 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Person Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 7:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range? Wow Phil, right on. My first career was a buyer for an audio chain. I listened to everything they brought in. My assistant and my secretary and I NEVER agreed on what system sounded best. I would think a speaker that is reasonably flat from 200 hz to maybe 5khz with low mechanical distortion and good power handling would provide a decent baseline. After that - your warm tones are my screeching trebles; your full bass is my headache- inducing low range. I use a quality, small bookshelf speaker and then use the K3's equalizer to make the sound fill into the peaks and valleys of my ear's response curve. $50 would probably net you a pair of small Sony, Polk, KLH, JBL or even Pyle. New or used - you can't beat a nice rigid box with a woofer and a tweeter. Other interesting options are line-out to a Bluetooth audio source and then to one of the many Bluetooth wireless speaker systems. Or to a small stereo hifi amplifier. The K3 has stereo line output - a nice pair of bookshelf speakers left and right would definitely give you the best sound the K3/K3s is capable of producing (especially the K3s or an upgraded K3). A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted radio with a good microphone. There is a very broad range in the quality of signals on HF SSB. From dreadful to beautiful. I recommend setting up your station for the very best receive quality your radio can produce - which in the case of the K3, is substantial. Doug -- K0DXV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Wow Phil, right on. My first career was a buyer for an audio chain. I listened to everything they brought in. My assistant and my secretary and I NEVER agreed on what system sounded best. I would think a speaker that is reasonably flat from 200 hz to maybe 5khz with low mechanical distortion and good power handling would provide a decent baseline. After that - your warm tones are my screeching trebles; your full bass is my headache- inducing low range. I use a quality, small bookshelf speaker and then use the K3's equalizer to make the sound fill into the peaks and valleys of my ear's response curve. $50 would probably net you a pair of small Sony, Polk, KLH, JBL or even Pyle. New or used - you can't beat a nice rigid box with a woofer and a tweeter. Other interesting options are line-out to a Bluetooth audio source and then to one of the many Bluetooth wireless speaker systems. Or to a small stereo hifi amplifier. The K3 has stereo line output - a nice pair of bookshelf speakers left and right would definitely give you the best sound the K3/K3s is capable of producing (especially the K3s or an upgraded K3). A good audio setup will amaze you when you talk to another properly adjusted radio with a good microphone. There is a very broad range in the quality of signals on HF SSB. From dreadful to beautiful. I recommend setting up your station for the very best receive quality your radio can produce - which in the case of the K3, is substantial. Doug -- K0DXV On 10/17/2016 4:20 PM, Phil Townsend Lontz wrote: I have spent may years in “hi end” audio… some building some selling some just fooling around. Does wire matter? is there a difference between tubes and soild state? Can I hear 20K? does it matter if I can’t hear 20K? Why build a wide band amp if you can hear it? All these questions really don't matter one bit. The ONLY question the listener need ask… Do I LIKE how it sounds? That's it folks, no more no less. Simplistic… yep sure is. A few years back I was attending an audio show in Denver with a few “audio” friends. We would typically visit different rooms together and give a listen to the various systems in each room. To my surprise, we all had different ideas about what system sounded good. I like room 990 but Glen said it sucked. He liked the system in 512 but to me it nearly drove me to drinking. Chris loved 234 but the rest of us were sure he was ready for the funny farm. We all “hear” differently… I love how my K3 sounds with high end speakers left and right side... and a fine digital amp that drives the speakers. I eq the crap out of the K3 after 8K and set the tone of my CW note to 440… Near a natural “C”. to me that sounds easy and warm. But to my old ears the best tone in the world was and is a fine old Drake or a Collins pure analog signal run thru a nice 8" alnico speaker in an open baffle. That, to me, is simply the best. Phil K5SSR Santa Fe __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@k0dxv.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
I have spent may years in “hi end” audio… some building some selling some just fooling around. Does wire matter? is there a difference between tubes and soild state? Can I hear 20K? does it matter if I can’t hear 20K? Why build a wide band amp if you can hear it? All these questions really don't matter one bit. The ONLY question the listener need ask… Do I LIKE how it sounds? That's it folks, no more no less. Simplistic… yep sure is. A few years back I was attending an audio show in Denver with a few “audio” friends. We would typically visit different rooms together and give a listen to the various systems in each room. To my surprise, we all had different ideas about what system sounded good. I like room 990 but Glen said it sucked. He liked the system in 512 but to me it nearly drove me to drinking. Chris loved 234 but the rest of us were sure he was ready for the funny farm. We all “hear” differently… I love how my K3 sounds with high end speakers left and right side... and a fine digital amp that drives the speakers. I eq the crap out of the K3 after 8K and set the tone of my CW note to 440… Near a natural “C”. to me that sounds easy and warm. But to my old ears the best tone in the world was and is a fine old Drake or a Collins pure analog signal run thru a nice 8" alnico speaker in an open baffle. That, to me, is simply the best. Phil K5SSR Santa Fe __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Seems I can't go wrong with Elecraft, Phonema or Palstar speakers, assuming the wallet factor is a near-draw at too expensive :-) -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Speakers-Optimal-Frequency-Range-tp7623428p7623471.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Your logic is good, as usual. But let's look at the physics of loudspeakers, which I tried to do on an earlier post. A SMALL diaphragm has better dispersion of high frequencies, while it doesn't produce loud bass. We don't need loud bass, so a GOOD small diaphragm loudspeaker is what we need. And that is EXACTLY what Elecraft uses in the K2 and both versions of the K3. The late Dick Heyser famously said that "trying to describe an audio device or system using only frequency response is like trying to write Shakespeare with only one word in your vocabulary. In addition, to have any meaning, a frequency response spec must include +/- dB limits and it must include angular dispersion. VERY few consumer loudspeakers do that -- they simply quote upper and lower limits. Many cheap loudspeakers (and headphones) have very bumpy frequency response, and those bumps create phase distortion that degrades speech intelligibility. So, to repeat my earlier advice, the best loudspeaker for ham radio is one that has smooth response from about 300 Hz to about 3 kHz and has wide, uniform dispersion within those limits. In other words, it sounds the same both on and off axis. Loudspeakers that cover a wider frequency range are FINE, but don't pay extra to get one. A loudspeaker with wider response would reproduce lower lows and higher highs, but our ham rigs (at least the good ones when well adjusted) limit audio to a range of about 300 - 3,000 Hz in the IF. There is no good reason to buy a speaker rated for 300 - 3,000 Hz. What we want is one with good performance within that range, and most that do will have at least another octave or two above and below those limits. (An octave is 2:1 frequency) BTW -- I purposely set my RXEQ flat because I primarily work CW, and I want to hear the off-frequency signals that may be very low or very high in frequency, and I limit frequency response on SSB with the settings of my IF filters. 73, Jim K9YC On Sun,10/16/2016 10:44 PM, Dave Cole wrote: So, as I said in my original post, it is the most efficient use of the hardware is to use a limited response speaker. No need for high end stereo speakers on a K3... That said, I may put on some better speakers on my K3 because in the long run it is a bit less stressful on my ears...:) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Hmmmthinking about what Martin wrote, a K3Snkinda like Snorkel? Gary -Original Message- From: "Martin Sole" Sent: 17/10/2016 2:21 PM To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range? It's been doing the rounds for years in one form or another. I remember trying one from a 70's or 80's ARRL H&K book. a 45 degree PVC pipe bend of suitable diameter, 3 or 4 inches. Suitably fixed to the top of the radio, blu-tak or whatever. Paint to match. Very useful to focus the sound. I'm sure a suitably embellished matching "K-pipe", available soon no doubt, will be even better ;-) Martin, HS0ZED On 17/10/2016 06:36, Mark via Elecraft wrote: > Re: "Back in the K2 days, many hams folded some stiff card or paper to make > such a deflector to tape to the top of their rigs." > > That idea was highlighted again in May 2016 QST Hints & Kinks, pg 63. > > Mark, > KE6BB > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hs0...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to vk1zzg...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 20:47 -0800, Edward R Cole wrote: > As many of you know I suffer extreme hearing loss (especially high > freqs), so Don's comment really hit home for me. Several years ago I > debated buying a home theater system with prof. speakers as I > wondered if I could discern the improvement. I found that having > very linear response from 50-Hz to 20KHz improved understanding of > voice on the TV as well as enjoyable music. Edward, My last hearing test, I asked for and received a copy of my hearing results. I used to listen to CW at 650 Hz., and noticed that my speed was slowing down as my hearing got worse over time. I noted a big dip in my hearing response at 600 Hz. from the results of the hearing test. I then changed the spot frequency from 650 to 540, which is not nearly as depressed, I copy CW MUCH faster as a result of that change. I in essence, have used the K3 EQ to adjust for my hearing deficiencies, producing something much flatter between 300 to 3000 Hz. than I would be hearing without the EQ. Over all this has really helped both my CW and SSB receive ability. -- 73's, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) For software/hardware reviews see: http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 23:32 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Dave, > > While what you say (using the speaker as a filter) may have been > advantageous in the days when receiver selectivity was "broad as a > barn > door". I don't think that applies today for receivers have adequate > selectivity to do that filtering job. Some low end receivers that do > not provide adequate filtering may benefit from a peaked speaker, but > that is not true of any of the Elecraft receivers. > > Besides, unless your "filtering" speaker matches the filtering > provided > by your headphones, there will be a vast difference when switching > between the speaker and the 'phones. > > In modern days, a flat speaker response in the 300 to 3000 Hz range > is > the best for communications. If the speaker response is greater than > that range, it will not matter because the receiver will not produce > audio much beyond that 300 to 3000 Hz range. > > To me, the goal is a flat speaker response in the range that the > receiver produces audio. The fact that the speaker is also flat > beyond > that range is of no consequence unless that same speaker is also used > for Hi-Fi listening. > > 73, > Don W3FPR Hi Don, I am saying that not using the speaker as part of the total communications system is not effective use of hardware, having a speaker that is flat beyond the audio output range of the radio is useless and just runs the cost of the radio up. You are assuming that receivers are all 300-3000, they are not, else ESSB would never have come about. We are not running broadcast stations, we are running communications links. Best communications is achieved using something close to 300-3000. See: http://www.w0btu.com/ssb_audio-weak_signal.html In reality, it really would not matter if one put a high end stereo speaker on the radio, assuming the radio were limited to 300-3000, (as it should be), save a bit of amp noise leaking through... So, as I said in my original post, it is the most efficient use of the hardware is to use a limited response speaker. No need for high end stereo speakers on a K3... That said, I may put on some better speakers on my K3 because in the long run it is a bit less stressful on my ears... :) -- 73's, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) For software/hardware reviews see: http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
As many of you know I suffer extreme hearing loss (especially high freqs), so Don's comment really hit home for me. Several years ago I debated buying a home theater system with prof. speakers as I wondered if I could discern the improvement. I found that having very linear response from 50-Hz to 20KHz improved understanding of voice on the TV as well as enjoyable music. Later, I found choosing the flat response program in my hearing aids also provided the crispest voices and better understanding. Long ago I bought a pair of Sony stereo headsets for listening to weak signals on ham radio. Appears that also was a good move. So even if the audio output is restricted to 300-4000 Hz the speaker reproduces that faithfully. My new blue-tooth capable hearing aids have much wider freq response as I am hearing a wider range from low to high freq. The plus is my iphone connects directly to my hearing aids for best hearing in public (and that half is private). I have yet to try using bluetooth with my K3. Let you know how that sounds, later. 73, Ed - KL7UW PS: my KX3 audio will be connected to the truck speakers via sync; more on that, later. From: Don Wilhelm To: MaverickNH , elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range? Message-ID: <0ac70af8-6d68-a819-8b21-60c05fdab...@embarqmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Bret, In my opinion, a speaker should not "color" the audio response of the receiver. While it is true that there is not normally much response above 4000Hz from a ham transceiver, the speaker should not be the limiting factor. IMHO, the best characteristic of a speaker is the flatness of its response curve rather than its frequency range. A speaker with a flat response will allow you to hear the transceiver "as it should be" without distortion. So my vote is for "High-Fidelity" speakers. 73, Don W3FPR 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
It's been doing the rounds for years in one form or another. I remember trying one from a 70's or 80's ARRL H&K book. a 45 degree PVC pipe bend of suitable diameter, 3 or 4 inches. Suitably fixed to the top of the radio, blu-tak or whatever. Paint to match. Very useful to focus the sound. I'm sure a suitably embellished matching "K-pipe", available soon no doubt, will be even better ;-) Martin, HS0ZED On 17/10/2016 06:36, Mark via Elecraft wrote: Re: "Back in the K2 days, many hams folded some stiff card or paper to make such a deflector to tape to the top of their rigs." That idea was highlighted again in May 2016 QST Hints & Kinks, pg 63. Mark, KE6BB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hs0...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Re: "Back in the K2 days, many hams folded some stiff card or paper to make such a deflector to tape to the top of their rigs." That idea was highlighted again in May 2016 QST Hints & Kinks, pg 63. Mark, KE6BB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Dave, While what you say (using the speaker as a filter) may have been advantageous in the days when receiver selectivity was "broad as a barn door". I don't think that applies today for receivers have adequate selectivity to do that filtering job. Some low end receivers that do not provide adequate filtering may benefit from a peaked speaker, but that is not true of any of the Elecraft receivers. Besides, unless your "filtering" speaker matches the filtering provided by your headphones, there will be a vast difference when switching between the speaker and the 'phones. In modern days, a flat speaker response in the 300 to 3000 Hz range is the best for communications. If the speaker response is greater than that range, it will not matter because the receiver will not produce audio much beyond that 300 to 3000 Hz range. To me, the goal is a flat speaker response in the range that the receiver produces audio. The fact that the speaker is also flat beyond that range is of no consequence unless that same speaker is also used for Hi-Fi listening. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/16/2016 8:17 PM, Dave Cole wrote: On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 18:28 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: Bret, In my opinion, a speaker should not "color" the audio response of the receiver. Au contraire, the speaker is as much a part of the radio as the synthesizer, or the APF is. We are not dealing with a high end stereo here, (where the speakers should never color things, but frequently do), we are dealing with the terminal end of a communications link, which can be several thousand miles long, and as such, the speaker is just another filter/device to reproduce the sound. Filters by nature color things, hence the speaker must color the sound if we are to use all parts as efficiently as possible. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Take a stiff card, book or even your hand and hold it at a 45 degree angle behind the speaker and against the top of the K3 so the sound is bounced toward you and notice the difference. It's dramatic! Back in the K2 days, many hams folded some stiff card or paper to make such a deflector to tape to the top of their rigs. (Most of us, like me, used headphones so the issue was moot). 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:18 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range? What matters is smooth (flat) response from about 200 Hz to about 3 kHz as heard at the ear of the operator. The laws of physics dictate that uniformity of high frequency response is limited by diaphragm size -- the larger the speaker, the worse it sounds off axis. The speaker built into the K3 is a nice small one, so it has pretty good off axis response, but it faces straight up. In most shacks, the highs bounce off of nearby surfaces to get to the listener. A front-facing loudspeaker will have flatter response, but takes up more space on the operating desk. 73, Jim K9YC On Sun,10/16/2016 3:02 PM, MaverickNH wrote: > So what's the verdict, High-Fidelity or HAM-Fidelity? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to r...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Converting electrical power to mechanical power is fraught with peril. One way to get excellent performance from 300 to 3000 Hertz is to have very good performance from 30 to 30,000 Hertz. Or something like that. We want to be in the safely linear portion of the speaker. That said, I just bought some cheap Pyle speakers (two for $20) and am trying them out. Because hams are cheap. But I really wanted some of the old Radio Shack small two-way speakers. I have one of those on my Lowe HF-150 Europa and it is just fine, thank you. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Oct 16, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > > On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 18:28 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: >> Bret, >> >> In my opinion, a speaker should not "color" the audio response of the >> receiver. > > Au contraire, the speaker is as much a part of the radio as the > synthesizer, or the APF is. We are not dealing with a high end stereo > here, (where the speakers should never color things, but frequently do), > we are dealing with the terminal end of a communications link, which can > be several thousand miles long, and as such, the speaker is just another > filter/device to reproduce the sound. Filters by nature color things, > hence the speaker must color the sound if we are to use all parts as > efficiently as possible. > > -- > 73's, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) > For software/hardware reviews see: > http://www.nk7z.net > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 18:28 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Bret, > > In my opinion, a speaker should not "color" the audio response of the > receiver. Au contraire, the speaker is as much a part of the radio as the synthesizer, or the APF is. We are not dealing with a high end stereo here, (where the speakers should never color things, but frequently do), we are dealing with the terminal end of a communications link, which can be several thousand miles long, and as such, the speaker is just another filter/device to reproduce the sound. Filters by nature color things, hence the speaker must color the sound if we are to use all parts as efficiently as possible. -- 73's, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) For software/hardware reviews see: http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
The Hallicrafters bass reflex speaker cabinet for the SX-28 had fabulous flat response ... down to the deep bass if you drove it with that. It also employed a fairly large speaker and was big ... very big, and took a few watts [8 peak, I think] to drive it. In the late 50's, in college and on a limited budget, it was common for students to use 5 or 6" speakers in tight cubic boxes made of 3/4" plywood and stuffed with some wall insulation for the then-new stereo records. They sounded pretty good and doubled as supports for the ubiquitous cinder-block shelving. My roomie and I painted ours black. Why wouldn't one of those work? 73, Fred K6DGW Sparks NV USA Washoe County DM09dn On 10/16/2016 4:56 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: While I agree that the speakers should not color the transceiver, excessive low frequency response on receive is as wasteful as excessive low frequency response on transmit. In that regard, I'm very happy with a pair of Pyle PCB3 (3" Mini Cube Bookshelf Speakers) - one left and one right. They are specified for 90 Hz - 18 KHz and I *still* use the maximum RX EQ cut on the 50 and 100 Hz bands. Speaker response above 5 - 6 KHz is moot since the K3/K3S includes a 4.5 KHz "brick wall" lowpass filter in the headphone/speaker channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
300-3000 flat will work best... On Sun, 2016-10-16 at 15:02 -0700, MaverickNH wrote: > So aside from speakers that match the design of a transceiver, there > seems to > be some difference in philosophy about frequency range. Palstar touts > a > 55-8000 Hz range while the Phonema and Elecraft speakers spec at 100- > 2 > Hz. Palstar says sound above 8kHz is non-communication noise. > > So what's the verdict, High-Fidelity or HAM-Fidelity? > > Bret/N4SRN > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Spe > akers-Optimal-Frequency-Range-tp7623428.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net > -- 73's, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) For software/hardware reviews see: http://www.nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
On 10/16/2016 6:28 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > IMHO, the best characteristic of a speaker is the flatness of its > response curve rather than its frequency range. A speaker with a flat > response will allow you to hear the transceiver "as it should be" > without distortion. So my vote is for "High-Fidelity" speakers. While I agree that the speakers should not color the transceiver, excessive low frequency response on receive is as wasteful as excessive low frequency response on transmit. In that regard, I'm very happy with a pair of Pyle PCB3 (3" Mini Cube Bookshelf Speakers) - one left and one right. They are specified for 90 Hz - 18 KHz and I *still* use the maximum RX EQ cut on the 50 and 100 Hz bands. Speaker response above 5 - 6 KHz is moot since the K3/K3S includes a 4.5 KHz "brick wall" lowpass filter in the headphone/speaker channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
That's why we use a CM500 On 10/16/2016 3:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote: What matters is smooth (flat) response from about 200 Hz to about 3 kHz as heard at the ear of the operator. The laws of physics dictate that uniformity of high frequency response is limited by diaphragm size -- the larger the speaker, the worse it sounds off axis. The speaker built into the K3 is a nice small one, so it has pretty good off axis response, but it faces straight up. In most shacks, the highs bounce off of nearby surfaces to get to the listener. A front-facing loudspeaker will have flatter response, but takes up more space on the operating desk. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
Bret, In my opinion, a speaker should not "color" the audio response of the receiver. While it is true that there is not normally much response above 4000Hz from a ham transceiver, the speaker should not be the limiting factor. IMHO, the best characteristic of a speaker is the flatness of its response curve rather than its frequency range. A speaker with a flat response will allow you to hear the transceiver "as it should be" without distortion. So my vote is for "High-Fidelity" speakers. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/16/2016 6:02 PM, MaverickNH wrote: So aside from speakers that match the design of a transceiver, there seems to be some difference in philosophy about frequency range. Palstar touts a 55-8000 Hz range while the Phonema and Elecraft speakers spec at 100-2 Hz. Palstar says sound above 8kHz is non-communication noise. So what's the verdict, High-Fidelity or HAM-Fidelity? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Speakers - Optimal Frequency Range?
What matters is smooth (flat) response from about 200 Hz to about 3 kHz as heard at the ear of the operator. The laws of physics dictate that uniformity of high frequency response is limited by diaphragm size -- the larger the speaker, the worse it sounds off axis. The speaker built into the K3 is a nice small one, so it has pretty good off axis response, but it faces straight up. In most shacks, the highs bounce off of nearby surfaces to get to the listener. A front-facing loudspeaker will have flatter response, but takes up more space on the operating desk. 73, Jim K9YC On Sun,10/16/2016 3:02 PM, MaverickNH wrote: So what's the verdict, High-Fidelity or HAM-Fidelity? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
