Re: [PSES] 10m chambers in Colorado?

[Ken Wyatt]

As far as I know, NTS is now the only 3rd party test lab in Colorado with 10m chambers. Kenneth WyattWoodland Park, COSent from my iPhone.On Nov 8, 2023, at 14:25, Brian Gregory  wrote: 
 Hello experts,
 
once upon a time, there were several 10m chambers in Colorado, 3-4 north of Denver that I knew about.
The only one I know should still exist is at NTS in Longmont;  the ones that were at Hp and StorageTek are long gone, I'm afraid.
 
NTS is now owned by Element, with whom I've engaged to no effect (not even a bid from West coast or Chicago labs).
 
So, do any know of functioning 10m EMC chambers in the Denver area?  Even Colorado Springs is acceptable at this point.
 
thanks,
 

Colorado Brian 


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ 
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford  at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at:  j.bac...@ieee.org


 To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ 
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford  at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at:  j.bac...@ieee.org


 To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 

Re: [PSES] ESD testing - Contact Mode to plated metal surfaces?

[Ken Wyatt]

Always had the impression the sharp end of the CD tip was designed to punch through any coated metal. Kenneth WyattWoodland Park, COSent from my iPhone.On Sep 18, 2023, at 09:48, Sykes, Bob  wrote:







Worldly Experts,
 
I have a question regarding the suitability of contact mode ESD testing to plated metal surfaces.  I understand the wording in IEC 61000-4-2 regarding painted and bare metal.  Does the same logic used for painted metal surfaces also apply
 to other coatings (anodized, plated, passivated etc.)?  These are not addressed in the Standard.
 
adTHANKSvance,
Bob Sykes
 
 



Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message.



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ 
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford  at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at:  j.bac...@ieee.org


 To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ 
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford  at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at:  j.bac...@ieee.org


 To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 

Re: [PSES] EMC test equipment museum

[Ken Wyatt]

That would be Ken Javor (ken.ja...@emccompliance.com 
), copied on this.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Contact Me! New Books! 



  

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On May 17, 2022, at 5:08 PM, David Garnier  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Sorry about the off topic subject, but thank you for the bandwidth.
> 
> I am interested in getting a hold of PSTC member(s) that run EMC test
> equipment museum.  I have a piece of TE you might be interested in, free.
> This piece of TE is from the estate well known microwave ham operator.
> 
> Please contact me off list.  wb9...@arrl.net
> 
> Dave Garnier - wb9own
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Test & measurement with cellular module

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, 

Wireless compliance testing is not really my specialty, so putting this out to 
the group…

I have a client that manufactures a data recorder (basically, a non-intensional 
radiator), but with an FCC-approved cellular modem from Sierra. I believe 
there’s an option to connect Wi-Fi, but that’s not enabled on the current 
model. The product is designed to plug into the under-dash I/O connector on 
automobiles for engineering analysis purposes.

For U.S. sales: I know FCC has an exemption for T products (47 CFR 
15.103(a)). Besides CTIA testing for TIP and TIS, what other compliance testing 
might be required?

For EU sales: The product would fall under IEC/EN 61326 for general EMC. What 
wireless/cellular compliance testing might be required in addition? ETSI 
compliance, etc.?

Thank you, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Contact Me! New Books! 



  

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Radiated emission - troubleshooting with current clamp

[Ken Wyatt]

Amund, you’re definitely on the right track in troubleshooting this issue. I 
agree with Ken Javor that, because of the length of cable, you’ll want to fix 
the probe at the same location every time you go to troubleshoot.

Let me also add these points. (1) Make sure the fan cable is routed away from 
all others and in close proximity to any chassis or enclosure, so any common 
mode currents have a chance to flow back to their source through the chassis. 
(2) Make sure any ferrites used are of sufficient impedance at 145 MHz. The 5 
dB reduction was pretty good, but by wrapping the cable through the core once 
more, you may be able to do better. (3) Fair-Rite #61, 31 or possibly 43 
material ought to work pretty well at 145 MHz.

As always, it’s best to reduce the energy of the source AT the source through 
filtering, better PC board layout/stack-up, etc.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 7:15 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Agree.  But at 145 MHz, cable is electrically long.  In order to compare 
> before and after, need to measure at exactly the same location, on account of 
> standing waves, unless you used an absorbing clamp, in which case no issue.
> 
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: Amund Westin  >
> Reply-To: Amund Westin  >
> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:38:50 +0200
> To: >
> Subject: [PSES] Radiated emission - troubleshooting with current clamp
> 
> We did some EMC testing last week (radiated emission in a chamber) on a 
> ventilation system with two fans. It exceeded the limits on 145MHz. 
>  
> Then outside the camber, we shut down the fans, we found the 145MHz on a bus 
> line from a controller (3rd part product). Connecting the fans back again, 
> the noise increase with increasing speed on the fans. Broadband noise at 
> 145MHz.
>  
> The troubleshooting process have been carried out outside the chamber (due to 
> costs). We had a current clamp connected to a spectrum analyzer and measured 
> every internal cable.
> 145MHz was only visible on the bus line and the cables to the fans (which are 
> 2 meters long, unshielded).
>  
> We inserted a CM choke on the bus line, and the 145MHz on the fan cable 
> decreased by approximate 5 dB (current clamp meas.). What this would mean in 
> decreased level under a radiated test, it’s hard to say.
>  
> We are planning to check it out in the chamber next time.
> During that exercise, we will also prepare a better bonding of the fan cables 
> to the chassis in order to reduse the radiated fields from the fan cables. 
> Also have a shielded harness.
>  
> Do you agree that the current clamp + spectrum analyzer, is a good tool for 
> finding the noise and the wires that may act as antennas?
>  
>  
> Best regards
> Amund 
>  
>  
>  
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
>  (including how to unsubscribe) 
> > 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
>  
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell > 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher  >
> David Heald > 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> 

Re: [PSES] EMC/EMI Cables

[Ken Wyatt]

The only sure way to qualify an HDMI cable manufacturer is to dissect the 
connector - cable termination and check for pigtails. 

https://interferencetechnology.com/hdmi-cables-emi/ 


The article references some original investigations by Begey and Altland 
(DesignCon 2008).

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Apr 28, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Larry K. Stillings 
>  wrote:
> 
> L-Com seems to have a good understanding on how to construct HDMI cables with 
> 360 shields
>  
> https://www.l-com.com/audio-video-hdmi-cable-assemblies 
> 
>  
> Known problem for quite some time now
>  
>  
> Larry K. Stillings
> Compliance Worldwide, Inc. 
> Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World! 
> FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product 
> Safety 
> 357 Main Street
> Sandown, NH 03873
> (603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
> complianceworldwide.com 
> 
> Follow us on social media
>linkedin.com/company/compliance-worldwide-inc 
> 
> twitter.com/complianceww 
> Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you 
> are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery 
> of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to 
> anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the 
> sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do 
> not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, 
> conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the 
> official business of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor 
> endorsed by it.
>  
> From: Cass Carmanico 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 2:24 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] EMC/EMI Cables
>  
> Hi guys,
>  
> I am having issues with getting audio/video product to pass the class A 
> limit. I've narrowed it down to the HDMI cables. Even the ones with the 
> ferrites on both ends are inconsistent.
>  
> Does anyone have a recommendation on where to find good EMI/EMC HDMI Cables.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Cass
> -- 
> 
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information that is confidential 
> to Ross Video. 
> 
> If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by 
> replying to this message. Please also delete all copies. Thank you.
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

Re: [PSES] [PSES] Friday Question - table of electrochemical potentials

[Ken Wyatt]

Leave it to our resident historian to pull off the Reference Handbook for Radio 
Engineers, 2nd edition, 1946 from his library!

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Reference Handbook for Radio Engineers, 2nd edition, 1946


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Automotive EMC training

[Ken Wyatt]

Yes, Todd’s training is through his company, www.learnemc.com 


He generally has monthly webinars.

P.S., agreeing with both of us “Kens” might be dangerous!  :-)

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Jan 26, 2021, at 2:25 PM, Grasso, Charles [Outlook] 
>  wrote:
> 
> ​Hi Ken - Is the automotive EMC training from Todd Hubing available anywhere?
> 
> Chas
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Digital logic question

[Ken Wyatt]

I agree. In the early days at HP, we would commonly place a simple low-pass R-C 
filter after the clock IC (typically, 27 Ohms and 25 pF, or so - calculated at 
3dB point of 3 to 5X the clock freq). In fact, with the usual parasitic 
capacitance, we often could get away with a simple series resistor of low value.

After taking some training on automotive EMC from Todd Hubing, he often 
suggests adding series 1k resistors in ALL the data and address bus lines to 
slow down edges. Of course, this would apply mainly for slow data rate CAN 
buses and associated digital logic.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>

> On Jan 26, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Thanks. Well, the first part will be to check for the corrupted rise/fall 
> time. With such a slow clock – 4.19 MHz – it seems to me the simple solution 
> is if the risetime is sub-ten nanoseconds, to simply slow it down with an RC 
> filter, as opposed to redesigning the board stack-up to provide glitch-free 
> operation.
> 
> Agree/disagree? 
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: Ken Wyatt >
> Reply-To: Ken Wyatt >
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:34:04 -0700
> To: >
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question
> 
> Hi Ken,
> 
> The biggest problem I see when faced with RE issues is that clocks, 
> data/address buses and other fast-edged signals do not have an adjacent solid 
> return plane. This is especially important for wireless devices. Have your 
> client check their stack-up, because invariably, you’ll find, if four layers 
> (top to bottom), s-g-p-s, with the power and ground return way too far 
> separated (30 to 40 mils (poor HF decoupling) and with the bottom signal 
> layer referenced to power, instead of the return plane.
> 
> I discuss this in my four-part article on low EMI design for PC boards: 
> https://www.edn.com/design-pcbs-for-emi-part-1-how-signals-move/ 
> <https://www.edn.com/design-pcbs-for-emi-part-1-how-signals-move/>
> 
> Cheers, Ken
> 
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com <http://www.emc-seminars.com/>>  | Blog 
> <https://design-4-emc.com <https://design-4-emc.com/>> 
> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>> 
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>> 
> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/ 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Ken Javor > > wrote:
>> 
>> At my request based on this EMC forum back and forth and the specs on the 
>> processor which is very slow, customer is going to measure clock waveform.
>> 
>> Ken Javor
>> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Grasso, Charles" >  > > >
>> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:19:30 +
>> To: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
>> > > " >  
>> > > >, Ken Javor 
>>  
>> > > >
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question
>> 
>> ​Agreed.  Perhaps your customer could take a measurement on the pwa?
>> From: Ken Javor >  
>> > > >
>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 12:07 PM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
>> > > 
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question 
>>  
>> This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
>> owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org 
>>  
>> > >  
>> I’m guessing that, as well.  But the entire battery is maybe a foot square 
>> and a half-inch thick, and the board is way smaller than that, which makes 

Re: [PSES] Digital logic question

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ken,

The biggest problem I see when faced with RE issues is that clocks, 
data/address buses and other fast-edged signals do not have an adjacent solid 
return plane. This is especially important for wireless devices. Have your 
client check their stack-up, because invariably, you’ll find, if four layers 
(top to bottom), s-g-p-s, with the power and ground return way too far 
separated (30 to 40 mils (poor HF decoupling) and with the bottom signal layer 
referenced to power, instead of the return plane.

I discuss this in my four-part article on low EMI design for PC boards: 
https://www.edn.com/design-pcbs-for-emi-part-1-how-signals-move/ 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Jan 26, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> At my request based on this EMC forum back and forth and the specs on the 
> processor which is very slow, customer is going to measure clock waveform.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: "Grasso, Charles"  >
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:19:30 +
> To: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG " 
> >, Ken 
> Javor >
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question
> 
> ​Agreed.  Perhaps your customer could take a measurement on the pwa?
> From: Ken Javor  >
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 12:07 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question 
>  
> This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
> owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org 
>  
> I’m guessing that, as well.  But the entire battery is maybe a foot square 
> and a half-inch thick, and the board is way smaller than that, which makes me 
> think super fast risetimes (relative to clock speed), else traces wouldn’t be 
> long enough to support constructive/destructive interference.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: "Grasso, Charles"  >
> Reply-To: "Grasso, Charles"  >
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:02:33 +
> To: >
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question
> 
> Thanks Ken.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming that this is a faithful representation of the signal is ON the 
> circuit board then there really is a problem 
> with the clock generation and distribution on the board. My guess is that the 
> xmission lines are really long and/or
> improperly terminated. 
> 
> 
> 
> To answer your question regarding the "squaring up" of nasty signals. If the 
> nasty signal is
> valid within the operating input switching characteristics of the logic 
> gates, then the output 
> will be a cleaned up version of the input (esp at 4MHz). 
> 
> 
> 
> Chas
> 
> 
> From: Ken Javor  >
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 11:30 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Digital logic question 
>  
> This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
> owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org 
>  
> This was measured not on the board, but by draping a very short wire over the 
> equipment plastic case and running that into an o’scope as a troubleshoot. So 
> this is capacitively coupled to the outside.
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Grasso, Charles"  >
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:21:24 +
> To: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG " 
> >, Ken 
> Javor >
> Subject: Re: Digital logic question
> 
> ​When you say damped sine - does the amplitude decrease with time? (I presume 
> that the measurement is at the destination).  Typically there is too much 
> series impedance (filtering?) on the signal.​ 
> From: Ken Javor  >
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 9:28 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: [PSES] Digital logic question 
>  
> This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
> owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org 
>  
> Have a customer who I suspect has way too fast a risetime for his 
> application.  Clock runs at 4 MHz. I’m seeing an ugly damped sine occurring 
> at 2 MHz rate, leading to broadband outages around 200 MHz. Suspect that a 
> risetime somewhere is being corrupted.
> 
> Is it enough to slow down the clock’s rise and fall times, or do the logic 
> chips fed by the clock act as Schmitt triggers and square things up again if 
> they operate off a fast logic family?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a 

Re: [PSES] Draft SAE ARP-958E EMI Measurement Antennas; Calibration Method: Deeply flawed Revision E is nearing completion and balloting

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ken,

You can get the EN version of CISPR 25 from the Estonian Center for 
Standardization at the cost of jut 31.80 €. They also sell a host of other EN 
standards at affordable costs.

EN 55025:2017 (latest): https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-55025-2017 
 

They have a system similar to PayPal that can handle charge cards. Note that 
the PDFs are copy-protected and labeled with your company name in the margin. 
They require Adobe Acrobat DS (free download) to open them. But once opened, 
they can be printed and rescanned to PDF for your convenience.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 1:21 PM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Well, I spent $240 getting pdfs of ARP-958A/B/C (had original and “D”).  
> Going to have to think long and hard about dropping $410 on the CISPR 
> standard...
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: John Woodgate >
> Organization: J M Woodgate and Associates
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 20:02:10 +
> To: Ken Javor  >,  >
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Draft SAE ARP-958E EMI Measurement Antennas; Calibration 
> Method: Deeply flawed Revision E is nearing completion and balloting
> 
>
> 
> There is some information in CISPR TR16-3 on this issue which might be 
> helpful.
> 
>  
> ==
>  Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk 
> >  Rayleigh, Essex UK
>  "A nation once again" (with apologies to Eire)
>  People have to be told in stark terms that they can disobey the Covid rules 
> at the risk of their own lives,
>  but disobeying at the risk of others' lives is no less than a crime against 
> humanity.
>  
> On 2021-01-04 18:56, Ken Javor wrote:
>  
>  
>>  Draft SAE ARP-958E EMI Measurement Antennas; Calibration Method: Deeply 
>> flawed Revision E is nearing completion and balloting Alcon,
>>  Please forward to any you feel might be interested.
>>  
>>  Bringing up this issue to raise awareness of what I consider to be a 
>> measurement practice travesty in the draft SAE ARP-958E – and hopefully stop 
>> this during the upcoming and imminent balloting for this revision.  The 
>> issue is that for the first time they propose to measure antenna factors 
>> separately for horizontal and vertical polarizations.  There are two 
>> distinct problems with that: they are going about it incorrectly, and even 
>> done correctly, it simply isn’t necessary.
>>  
>>  The difference between antenna factors for different polarizations hinges 
>> on the presence of a ground plane, so this discussion is largely about 
>> ground plane effects.
>>  
>>  Full disclosure/disclaimer: I seem to be the only person involved in the 
>> “E” revision process who had a problem with what follows.  I was first 
>> instructed to quit messaging on this topic and then after the first two 
>> meeting invitations no further invitations followed.  My comments on the 
>> draft “E” revision submitted through NASA MSFC were rejected.  It is 
>> reasonable to assume I am considered a crank by the balance of the committee 
>> membership.
>>  
>>  Background.
>>  
>> SAE ARP-958 covers calibration of antennas used at one-meter separation, 
>> supporting radiated emission requirements in EMI control standards such as 
>> MIL-STD-461, DEF-STAN-59-411, RTCA/DO-160 (EUROCAE ED-14G), CISPR 25 and 
>> derivatives of these standards.
>>  
>>  The original 1968 release was only for log-spirals (circular polarization) 
>> and didn’t specify antenna height above ground plane when calibrating.  In 
>> fact, they don’t mention ground planes at all. They do mention an area free 
>> of obstructions, so that a free field environment is simulated.  They 
>> mention the use of tripods, so it is reasonable to assume tripods such as 
>> those used during actual EMI testing, meaning that antennas would be set up 
>> at a similar height as when used for EMI testing.  This means that any 
>> reflections off a ground plane during calibration would be similar in 
>> magnitude and effect as during EMI testing – but there is no mention of 
>> ground planes, and they do mention free field.  
>>  
>>  So how do we deal with reflections off the floor?  One entirely empirical 
>> answer is to calibrate outside on an open area test site (OATS) without a 
>> metallic ground 

Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ken,

We used one of these (I believe from EMCO) back when I started with HP in the 
late 1980s. It sure seemed to me it was just glued, as I don’t recall any 
fasteners. The joint seemed to be flush with the cone. It’s long gone, so no 
pictures.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Dec 9, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> List Members with an EMI test facility,
> 
> Recently purchased subject antenna, which is damaged.
> 
> See attached image.  Tensor made the EMCO log-spirals before EMCO acquired 
> them, way back. I had an opportunity to buy the antenna in the image, and it 
> is the same as an EMCO 3103.  Unfortunately, they packed it up like it was 
> indestructible, and it wasn’t – the box was intact, but the antenna within 
> had come apart as can be seen.  The back plate was originally glued in, but 
> there are also holes for fasteners, visible in the image.  None of the 
> fasteners were in the antenna or even in the box. It could be that the 
> fasteners were only there during assembly to hold the back plate in place 
> long enough for the glue to set.   I got with ETS/Lindgren to see assembly 
> drawings for their log-spirals, but that hasn't been fruitful. I am reaching 
> out to the list membership for a description of how the EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 
> 3101 or better yet EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3103 is put together. The main 
> question is whether or not there are any fasteners, and if so, metal or 
> nylon, or?
> 
> Also any evidence of glue, or how the back plate stays in place.
> 
> I have two uhf log-spirals like the EMCO 3101, but one is from 
> Electro-Metrics, and the other Stoddart/Singer, and neither show any evidence 
> of what holds them together, plus it wouldn't necessarily apply, anyway.
> 
> If there are fasteners, a close-up image would be really helpful for me to 
> figure out what I need to get.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] In-house Conducted emission test equipment

[Ken Wyatt]

Amund, Com-Power has a three phase LISN, model number LI-3P-116, that would 
work for this application. They also sell a rebranded Siglent spectrum 
analyzer, model SPA-900TG, they recommend.

Personally, I’ve been pretty happy with the Tektronix RSA306B USB-controlled 
(real time) spectrum analyzer, with their EMCVu software. The software is 
designed specifically for pre-compliance testing and can do RE or CE with 
dozens of EMC standards and limits built-in. It will run a peak scan within 
seconds and then for those peaks over the limit, you just click on each and it 
will perform a quasi-peak scan pretty quickly. You’d need to enter the 
frequency response calibration of the LISN into the software, so it could 
calculate the limit lines accurately.

I don’t know pricing for any of this, but typically both companies products are 
pretty affordable.

Disclosure: I’m not financially connected with either company, just a satisfied 
user.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>

> On Sep 4, 2020, at 9:38 AM, Amund Jobb  wrote:
> 
> 400AC, Ken. 
> 3-phase. L3, L2, L1, N, PE
> 
> Ebay may be an alternate, but brand new is also an option.
> Only peak might be good enough, but QP and Avg are options aswell.
> 
> BR
> Amund
> 
> Sendt fra min iPhone
> 
> 4. sep. 2020 kl. 17:17 skrev Ken Wyatt  <mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com>>:
> 
>> Is that 400V AC or DC? That will make a difference in the LISN design.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
>> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy 
>> to help!
>> 
>> Kenneth Wyatt
>> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
>> 56 Aspen Dr.
>> Woodland Park, CO 80863
>> 
>> Phone: (719) 310-5418
>> 
>> Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
>> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
>> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
>> Subscribe to Newsletter 
>> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
>> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>
>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Amund Westin >> <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Need to establish a pre-qual test setup for Conducted emission testing 
>>> in-house.
>>> EUT will be 400V / 16A. 
>>> Any suggestion on such low cost test eqiupment? LISN and spectrum analyzer 
>>> ….
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best regards Amund   
>>> 
>>> -
>>> 
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>>> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>>> 
>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
>>> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
>>> 
>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
>>> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>>> <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in 
>>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>> 
>>> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/>
>>> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
>>> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe)
>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
>>> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html>
>>> 
>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>>> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
>>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>>> 
>>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>>> Jim Bacher:  mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
>>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>> 
>> -
>> ---

Re: [PSES] In-house Conducted emission test equipment

[Ken Wyatt]

Is that 400V AC or DC? That will make a difference in the LISN design.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Sep 3, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Amund Westin  wrote:
> 
> Need to establish a pre-qual test setup for Conducted emission testing 
> in-house.
> EUT will be 400V / 16A. 
> Any suggestion on such low cost test eqiupment? LISN and spectrum analyzer ….
> 
> 
> Best regards Amund   
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Wireless Self-Generated EMI Webinar - July 16, 2020

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, just a short note, I’ll be presenting a webinar on self-generated EMI 
for wireless and IoT products this coming July 16, 2020.

There will be two presentations; one for the U.S and EU and one for APAC. We’ll 
discuss why it affects cellular and other wireless modules, how to characterize 
the issue and several mitigations for reducing the on-board EMI.

More information and registration may be found here: 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/page6/Schedule.html 
 

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Power line noise expert?

[Ken Wyatt]

Thanks everyone, I believe I’ve found the right person to help. I believe the 
question was all about monitoring/understanding power distribution systems in 
large buildings.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 7:23 PM, Curt McNamara  wrote:
> 
> Noise in the ground? With respect to what? :-)
> 
> The ground should be protective earth and carry no energy. The neutral will 
> carry some energy in most systems, and a system with multiple neutral / 
> ground connections could also have ground 'loops'. I dislike that term ...
> 
> Anyway a good power line monitor will have an isolated power supply and be 
> able to characterize ground 'noise' (i.e. common mode?). 
> 
> Ground 'noise' should be common mode, and a few hours with Henry Ott's text 
> should help them think through that.
> 
> Assuming there is ground noise, an isolated supply may be their answer ...
> 
> Curt
> 
> http://www.hottconsultants.com/ <http://www.hottconsultants.com/>
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 8:36 PM Ken Wyatt  <mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com>> wrote:
> Sorry I may not have been clear enough, but I got the idea they were looking 
> for someone to advise them on power line noise in buildings - like using a 
> power line monitor, or similar, in the ground wiring.
> 
> Ken
> 
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Ken Javor > <mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Replying to all here because the first time I just did a list reply and was 
>> rejected by the list server.
>> 
>>  Seems as if we need answers to more questions before making a 
>> recommendation, technical or personnel.
>> 
>> Why are they interested in this? For any device meeting FCC/CISPR-type EMI 
>> requirements the individual load steady-state contribution can be bound by 
>> considering the conducted emission limit to be all common mode. And then 
>> there is some sort of rss summation, in the frequency and time domains.  
>> There may be some heavy loads switching below 150 kHz, but they should be in 
>> a minority. 
>> 
>> Current? Voltage?  If voltage, at what point: outlet or breaker box or... ?
>> 
>> Knowing what their concern is would go a long ways towards defining what the 
>> problem solution is, and who might be the best at solving it.  
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Javor
>> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>> 
>> From: Ken Wyatt >
>> Reply-To: Ken Wyatt >
>> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 15:01:31 -0600
>> To: >
>> Subject: [PSES] Power line noise expert?
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I had an inquiry from someone who would like some help with power line noise 
>> specifically in buildings. This is really outside my specialties, so was 
>> wondering who on the list I could recommend to them?
>> 
>> Here’s the original question:
>> 
>> I have interest in better understanding of a building's power distribution 
>> network and more specifically with quantifying the EMI that is observed on 
>> the AC power safety ground. The frequency range is DC to 1MHz, low-frequency 
>> range.
>> 
>> Who could help with this?
>> 
>> Thanks, Ken
>> ___
>> 
>> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
>> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy 
>> to he

Re: [PSES] Power line noise expert?

[Ken Wyatt]

Sorry I may not have been clear enough, but I got the idea they were looking 
for someone to advise them on power line noise in buildings - like using a 
power line monitor, or similar, in the ground wiring.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Replying to all here because the first time I just did a list reply and was 
> rejected by the list server.
> 
>  Seems as if we need answers to more questions before making a 
> recommendation, technical or personnel.
> 
> Why are they interested in this? For any device meeting FCC/CISPR-type EMI 
> requirements the individual load steady-state contribution can be bound by 
> considering the conducted emission limit to be all common mode. And then 
> there is some sort of rss summation, in the frequency and time domains.  
> There may be some heavy loads switching below 150 kHz, but they should be in 
> a minority. 
> 
> Current? Voltage?  If voltage, at what point: outlet or breaker box or... ?
> 
> Knowing what their concern is would go a long ways towards defining what the 
> problem solution is, and who might be the best at solving it.  
> 
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> From: Ken Wyatt >
> Reply-To: Ken Wyatt >
> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 15:01:31 -0600
> To: >
> Subject: [PSES] Power line noise expert?
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I had an inquiry from someone who would like some help with power line noise 
> specifically in buildings. This is really outside my specialties, so was 
> wondering who on the list I could recommend to them?
> 
> Here’s the original question:
> 
> I have interest in better understanding of a building's power distribution 
> network and more specifically with quantifying the EMI that is observed on 
> the AC power safety ground. The frequency range is DC to 1MHz, low-frequency 
> range.
> 
> Who could help with this?
> 
> Thanks, Ken
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com <http://www.emc-seminars.com/>>  | Blog 
> <https://design-4-emc.com <https://design-4-emc.com/>> 
> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>> 
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>> 
> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/ 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>> 
> 
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/>
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) 
> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>> 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell > 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher  >
> David Heald > 
> 
> -
> --

[PSES] Power line noise expert?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I had an inquiry from someone who would like some help with power line noise 
specifically in buildings. This is really outside my specialties, so was 
wondering who on the list I could recommend to them?

Here’s the original question:

I have interest in better understanding of a building's power distribution 
network and more specifically with quantifying the EMI that is observed on the 
AC power safety ground. The frequency range is DC to 1MHz, low-frequency range.

Who could help with this?

Thanks, Ken
___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Low power FM or Am transmitter

[Ken Wyatt]

Dieter, the “Part 15” FM transmitters are OK to use and generally have a range 
of 200 feet, or so. Legally, they must have a fixed antenna, so mounting one up 
high is problematic.

There are many illegally-sold and imported higher-power (up to 25W, or more) FM 
transmitters sold on Amazon and others, that -would- require a special 
low-powered FM station license, but I understand the FCC drags their feet on 
issuing these, probably due to the commercial FM broadcast community. I know of 
churches that are using the higher-powered transmitters for things like 
“drive-up” church services and I suspect the FCC is simply looking the other 
way or otherwise not enforcing unless there’s intentional interference.

I’ve never investigated AM transmitters.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On May 25, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Paasche, Dieter 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi group,
>  
> Can I operate an AM or FM very low power transmitter without a license and or 
> authorization? I mean that the transmitting power would be below 15.209.
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
> Dieter Paasche
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] HDMI distribution amplifier (1:4) and HDMI cable recommendations?

[Ken Wyatt]

http://www.magazines007.com/pdf/DC08_Dana_Bergey.pdf

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 8:39 AM, Ken Wyatt  wrote:
> 
> This may have been one of the first papers, by Bergey and Altland (DesignCon 
> 2008), that documented the EMI concern of HDMI (and other) commercial cables.
> 
> Ken
> 
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/>
> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
> <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog>
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/>
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:59 AM, James Pawson (U3C) > <mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> Adam,
>>  
>> I’ve been having success with these HDMI cables. Not dissected one yet but 
>> they seem to be pretty good from a radiated emissions point of view. You’ll 
>> have to check if they are available in the USA.
>>  
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K1X1QV2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 
>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K1X1QV2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1>
>>  
>> No experience on switches I’m afraid. A piece of equipment could meet the 
>> HDMI specification easily but be absolutely terrible for EMC so Adopter 
>> status isn’t necessarily useful from an EMC perspective. If you have HDMI 
>> signal integrity analysis tools available then you can verify signal quality 
>> but that’s out of most peoples budget. Mid price home AV equipment might be 
>> a good place to start as this will have to meet Class B emissions.
>>  
>> HTH
>> James
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> James Pawson
>> EMC Problem Solver
>>  
>> Unit 3 Compliance
>> EMC Testing / Design for EMC / Problem Solving / Pre Compliance / 
>> Consultancy / Environmental & Vibration
>>  
>> www.unit3compliance.co.uk <http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk/>
>> 07811 139957
>> 2 Wellington Business Park,
>> New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL
>>  
>> From: Adam Dixon > <mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com>> 
>> Sent: 31 March 2020 14:50
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
>> Subject: [PSES] HDMI distribution amplifier (1:4) and HDMI cable 
>> recommendations?
>>  
>> I would appreciate HDMI DA/splitter and cable recommendations for a test lab 
>> requiring a minimum of 4 HDMI displays.  There was 2017 discussion about 
>> "quiet" TV's and cables.  I'm interested in 1:4 distribution 
>> amplifiers/splitters, as well as 10' to 25' cables.  I expect I'll dissect 
>> cables again, but would love recommendations.
>>  
>> For the 1:4 (or 1:8) distribution amplifier/splitter requirement, it looks 
>> like >50% of the manufacturers whose literature I've read are not HDMI 
>> Adopters.  
>>  
>> At the semiconductor level, I've read product briefs from five companies, 
>> all of which are HDMI Adopters.  Figuring out which IC is in which 
>> DA/splitter is really expensive, so am open to recommendations, particularly 
>> if you've peeked inside well- or poor-performing modules.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>> Adam in Atlanta
>> adam.di...@ieee.org <mailto:adam.di...@ieee.org>
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
>> <http://www

Re: [PSES] HDMI distribution amplifier (1:4) and HDMI cable recommendations?

[Ken Wyatt]

This may have been one of the first papers, by Bergey and Altland (DesignCon 
2008), that documented the EMI concern of HDMI (and other) commercial cables.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:59 AM, James Pawson (U3C)  
> wrote:
> 
> Adam,
>  
> I’ve been having success with these HDMI cables. Not dissected one yet but 
> they seem to be pretty good from a radiated emissions point of view. You’ll 
> have to check if they are available in the USA.
>  
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K1X1QV2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 
> 
>  
> No experience on switches I’m afraid. A piece of equipment could meet the 
> HDMI specification easily but be absolutely terrible for EMC so Adopter 
> status isn’t necessarily useful from an EMC perspective. If you have HDMI 
> signal integrity analysis tools available then you can verify signal quality 
> but that’s out of most peoples budget. Mid price home AV equipment might be a 
> good place to start as this will have to meet Class B emissions.
>  
> HTH
> James
>  
>  
>  
> James Pawson
> EMC Problem Solver
>  
> Unit 3 Compliance
> EMC Testing / Design for EMC / Problem Solving / Pre Compliance / Consultancy 
> / Environmental & Vibration
>  
> www.unit3compliance.co.uk 
> 07811 139957
> 2 Wellington Business Park,
> New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL
>  
> From: Adam Dixon  > 
> Sent: 31 March 2020 14:50
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: [PSES] HDMI distribution amplifier (1:4) and HDMI cable 
> recommendations?
>  
> I would appreciate HDMI DA/splitter and cable recommendations for a test lab 
> requiring a minimum of 4 HDMI displays.  There was 2017 discussion about 
> "quiet" TV's and cables.  I'm interested in 1:4 distribution 
> amplifiers/splitters, as well as 10' to 25' cables.  I expect I'll dissect 
> cables again, but would love recommendations.
>  
> For the 1:4 (or 1:8) distribution amplifier/splitter requirement, it looks 
> like >50% of the manufacturers whose literature I've read are not HDMI 
> Adopters.  
>  
> At the semiconductor level, I've read product briefs from five companies, all 
> of which are HDMI Adopters.  Figuring out which IC is in which DA/splitter is 
> really expensive, so am open to recommendations, particularly if you've 
> peeked inside well- or poor-performing modules.
>  
> Cheers,
> Adam in Atlanta
> adam.di...@ieee.org 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] PCB layout technique - multilayer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Amund/Gert,

I agree with Gert’s advice, that all (especially high speed) signal layers need 
to have an adjacent ground return plane in order to properly capture the 
electromagnetic wave of the digital signals (which travel in the dielectric 
space between layers). The one exception, in my view, would be that we need the 
same adjacent return for power. Here’s my reasoning:

1. With all the digital switching and corresponding transients occurring, power 
rails (and planes) are also transmission lines.
2. The electromagnetic waves from these power rail transients travel through 
the dielectric space between the power rail and the nearest metal (adjacent 
layer).
3. Therefore, to avoid power transient coupling to other signal layers, there 
must be an adjacent return plane for every power plane (or routed / polygon) 
power.
4. Making the power and return planes adjacent and close together will also 
enhance high frequency decoupling.

That is, placing a signal layer between power and power return can couple 
switching transients to that signal layer.

I wrote a four-part series on PC board design to minimize EMI that may help. I 
discuss in more detail how digital signals move in boards, good and bad 
stack-ups, and partitioning of circuits to avoid coupling. Hope it helps 
clarify the physics.

https://www.edn.com/design-pcbs-for-emi-part-1-how-signals-move/ 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Feb 10, 2020, at 2:29 AM, Gert Gremmen  wrote:
> 
> It s an extra layer you might allocate to that low frequency signals , analog 
> signals and or extra power supply.
> 
> On 10-2-2020 10:22, Amund Westin wrote:
>> Thanks Gert
>>  
>> I want to read your advices with great attention. 
>> Just one immediately follow-up èThis Misc layer, is it an extra layer for 
>> signal routing, as a Sbott3?
>>  
>> Mvh Amund
>>  
>>  
>> Fra: Gert Gremmen 
>> Sendt: 10. februar 2020 09:57
>> Til: Amund Westin  
>> ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
>> 
>> Emne: Re: [PSES] PCB layout technique - multilayer
>>  
>> Just 2 hints of thousands:
>> 
>> If you implement 2 ground planes make sure the ground references on top and 
>> bottom are related to the closest ground layer .
>> 
>> The stack will than be:  Stop -- GND --Stop2 -- PWR - Misc - Sbott2 - GND 
>> -Sbott ((S=signal)) 
>> 
>> (basically you route 2 x 3 layer boards critically, and bond them together 
>> with a power plane in between.)
>> 
>> The signal should not cross the board and be tempted to flow on an opposite 
>> ground layer, but
>> 
>> will remain always close to the corresponding ground layer.
>> 
>> Make sure both ground layers are extremely well coupled together, esp on 
>> board edges 
>> 
>> If you implement SMPS locally give it a local top layer ground area to 
>> connect the principal
>> 
>> switch elements together. Connect by a dice pattern 5 via to main GND
>> 
>> Good luck.
>> 
>> Gert Gremmen
>> 
>> On 10-2-2020 8:27, Amund Westin wrote: contact to the nearest ground layer,
>>  
>>  
>> I’m looking for articles about how to do good EMC layout on multilayer PCB.
>> Choice of PCB layer stacking (8 or 10 layers) and basic routing techniques 
>> are the issues of most importance right now.
>> Appreciate if you have some experience about good or bad layer stacking.
>>  
>> Thanks!
>>  
>> Best regards
>> Amund 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>> 
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
>> 
>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
>> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>>  can be used for graphics (in 
>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>> 
>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
>> unsubscribe) 
>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
>> 

Re: [PSES] UNECE R10.05 vehicle conducted emission

[Ken Wyatt]

Not sure I have the answer, either, but I know Interference Technology did a 
whole series of articles on this standard. http://www.interferencetechnology.com

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Sep 22, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Charlie Blackham  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m not very familiar with this standard, but a quick read suggests there are 
> conducted emissions limits on AC/DC power lines connecting to the vehicle, 
> but none for the dc power lines running on the vehicle – is that correct and 
> that all emissions from cables on the vehicle are measured only as radiated 
> emissions above 30 MHz ?
>  
> Thanks
> Charlie
>  
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Mead House
> Longwater Road
> Eversley
> RG27 0NW
> UK
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com 
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Measuring Insertion Loss of Absorber Sheets

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Group,

I recently published an article on evaluating the insertion loss of various 
absorber sheets. So many manufacturers specify the permeability of these, but 
for an EMC engineer, we want to know the absorption or insertion loss. Here are 
measurements of five manufacturers.

https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4462154/Insertion-loss-measurements-of-ferrite-absorber-sheets
 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] GTEM cell used for RE measurement

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ken,

You might try contacting Dr. Diethard (Andy) Hansen, inventor of the GTEM. He 
can be reached at euro.emc.serv...@swissonline.ch 


LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-diethard-hansen-032b28155/ 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 10:34 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> I’m working for a customer. The customer bought the GTEM cell used. I’m sure 
> the manufacturer would be willing to sell the software at a price, but right 
> now my goal is to figure out if he needs a low noise preamplifier to augment 
> his spectrum analyzer, and if so, what noise figure and gain.  For that I 
> need a transfer function between field intensity and rf potential at the GTEM 
> cell EMI port.
> 
> Complicating this is the customer is working to CISPR 25, i.e., automotive, 
> which measures emissions at one meter, whereas the typical GTEM cell software 
> for predicting emissions assumes a far field at three or more meters 
> distance...
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: John Woodgate 
> Reply-To: John Woodgate 
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 15:46:19 +0100
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] GTEM cell used for RE measurement
> 
>
> 
> Won't the manufacturer tell you?
> 
>  
> Best wishes
> John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
> J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
>  
> Rayleigh, Essex UK
>  
> On 2019-08-13 15:27, Ken Javor wrote:
>  
>  
>>  Re: [PSES] GTEM cell used for RE measurement I understand how the GTEM cell 
>> works for immunity. That is quite simple, as you say. It’s not as simple for 
>> emissions. I think an analogy is the equation for transmitting from an 
>> antenna is not reciprocal with receiving. One is simply a function of gain, 
>> the other involves frequency/wavelength. I too worked with GTEM cells in the 
>> past and understood better, and I too did a search and found the very 
>> complex formulae (!) but now I need to be able to get from a field intensity 
>> limit to the coupled potential at the cell coax connector, and I’m not 
>> finding that, nor a way to get there.
>>  
>>  Ken Javor
>>  Phone: (256) 650-5261
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: "James Pawson (U3C)"  
>>   
>>  Reply-To: "James Pawson (U3C)"  
>>   
>>  Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:47:56 +0100
>>  To:   
>>  
>>  Subject: Re: [PSES] GTEM cell used for RE measurement
>>  
>>  Hello Ken,
>>   
>>  Thinking aloud here: would such a factor exist as a generic formula? If I 
>> think about this the other way round, putting 1V of RF into the coax 
>> connector will generate 1V between the septum and ground (or between the 
>> septums? septii? in the case of a differential GTEM like a Laplacell).
>>   
>>  This 1V will be spread over the distance between septum and ground, 
>> dictating the overall field strength. This means cells with different 
>> dimensions will have different factors. This is leaving aside the frequency 
>> response / VSWR of the cell.
>>   
>>  I do recall seeing some formulae for correlation between GTEM and OATS/SAC 
>> but that was a while ago. A quick google on the subject shows a few papers 
>> with lots of big equations.
>>   
>>  I no longer have my old copy of EN 61000-4-20 but there might be some 
>> interesting reference material in there. This standard also notes that many 
>> of its provisions only apply to “small EUTs” which is anything below a 
>> certain size in relation to the GTEM volume or anything with cables attached 
>> (which are “under consideration”)
>>   
>>   
>>  More practically, you could generate your own factors using an RF generator 
>> and an isotropic field probe and using reciprocity to flip this around to 
>> get a Volts out – field inside factor. 
>>   
>>   
>>  Additional: There’s also this NPL / York EMC guide on “The Use of GTEM 
>> Cells for EMC Measurements” which has some interesting info in. Its been a 
>> long while since I’ve read it in any depth though. 
>> https://www.npl.co.uk/special-pages/guides/gpg65_gtem
>>   
>>   
>>  Hope some of this is useful.
>>  All the best
>>  James
>>   
>>  
>>   
>>  James Pawson

Re: [PSES] Does anyone make this filter?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ken,

You might look at AstrodyneTDI filters. I see they make DC filters from 3 to 
2500 amps. Don’t know about the feedthrough part, but they may have suggestions.

My contact there is Ron Hamaoui, VP/GM of the EMI filters business unit. Nice 
guy.

Email (from LinkedIn) ron...@hamaoui.com  or (732) 
713-5639 (mobile)

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Jun 5, 2019, at 9:21 PM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> Working a little outside my experience area.
> 
> Trying to help someone meet FCC Class A RE limit.  Device is an off-line 
> battery charger, failing RE 30 – 200 MHz.  Conducted emissions on output 
> leads (24 / 36 Vdc @ up to 25 A) are too high to meet RE limit. Trying to 
> snub sources is not my thing and they are not interested in that at his 
> point.  I am trying to contain the noise. Plan is to provide a metal bulkhead 
> with a bulkhead-mount common mode only filter rated for 50 Vdc and over 25 A, 
> but filtering only at and above 30 MHz. 
> 
> Trouble is, I can’t find such a filter off-the-shelf with commercial rating 
> and commercial price.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a vendor of such?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] ISO/IEC 17025:2017 Documentation Templates

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Kevin,

Understand, please, this is data from 2011, so may be out of date. Here is what 
I recommended to one of my clients who was asking the same question. 

After reviewing several offerings of 17025 template packages, I'm recommending 
the one provided by SHOQ (Superior Heights of Quality). The price seems 
reasonable at $399 and includes a CD of the QM, procedures and forms in Word 
format, two PowerPoint presentations (one for management and one for employee 
awareness) along with a hardcopy step-by-step procedure for filling out all the 
documentation required.

Other reasons for choosing them include technical help, comprehensive web site, 
good testimonials and an impressive list of clients.

To access their web and order: http://www.e-shoq.com/ 

Cheers, Ken
___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Feb 25, 2019, at 12:56 PM, Kevin J Harris  wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
>  
> We are about to start the process of switching  our safety lab accreditation 
> basis from ISO/IEC 17025:2005 to ISO/IEC 17025:2017. We thought we would take 
> that opportunity to completely refresh our quality manual, procedures and SDs.
>  
> Rather than start completely from scratch, we found several companies on the 
> web that offer templates to get us going. Has anyone interacted with such a 
> company and would they recommend them?
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Kevin
>  
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] [SI-LIST] need some advice on cancellation policy for a seminar

[Ken Wyatt]

After listening in on this discussion, I now have a refund policy! Thanks for 
all the valuable comments.

Ken

Refund policy: Full refunds may be made up to 30 days prior to the scheduled 
event. Within 30 days of the event, a full refund, less a $250 administrative 
fee per seat will be made. Alternatively, another person may be substituted 
with no charge.

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

> On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:23 AM, Doug Smith  wrote:
> 
> Someone on the list had a great idea. I can buy round trip tickets for $260 
> so I may offer that. That should work and be a good compromise if that is the 
> real reason. I am suspicious of the manager’s intentions here but will find 
> out on Monday when I make the offer.
> 
> What should I do if the offer to buy the airline tickets (their reason for 
> cancellation in the first place) is rejected?
> 
> Also an engineer from the list is intending to register which would replace 
> one of the other two. So things are working out. Will have a written policy 
> after this. If the person had a personal issue like sickness or a family 
> emergency, even at the last minute, I would refund the whole amount.
> 
> Doug Smith
> Sent from my iPhone
> IPhone: 408-858-4528
> Office: 702-570-6108
> Email: d...@dsmith.org
> Website: http://dsmith.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 7:29 AM -0700, "Istvan Novak" 
> mailto:istvan.no...@verizon.net>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> Arguing with a no travel policy may not help, because those are usually 
> across the board measures in companies, allowing few or no exceptions.
> 
> I think the straightforward approach is to make clear at the time of 
> registration that there is a cancellation policy with a deadline beyond 
> which there is reduced or no refund.  If you want to be fair and 
> accommodating, you can give a refund (minus a cancellation fee to cover 
> the extra administration) IF the two seats are filled by other applicants.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Istvan
> 
> 
> On 9/14/2018 4:51 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
> > 
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I need some advice on a pair of cancelled registrations for a class I am 
> > holding next month. Two people from the same company registered and the 
> > company paid the registration fees. At that point the seminar was full (I 
> > limit it six people for a good experience) so I stopped marketing 
> > activities for the last week and a half. Then a manager higher up decided 
> > there will be no travel and now they want a refund. At this point, it is 
> > not likely, although possible, that two people additional people will 
> > register as time is short to get the required approvals. I have about an 
> > hour of work on each registration invested at this point for a total of two 
> > hours plus that much time to register and arrange for two different people 
> > if the register. Part of my time is making hotel reservations as the hotel 
> > and most meals are covered in the registration fee. Issuing a refund is a 
> > fair amount paperwork and record keeping, probably about an hour total for 
> > both. Basically, to save a few hund
> >   red doll
> >   ars this company wants to cost me almost 10X that if I cannot fill the 
> > two seats (of six).
> >
> > The problem is the no travel policy. I use Las Vegas McCarrann airport 
> > which must be the cheapest airport in the world because of being a vacation 
> > destination. I can fly to California for less than the cost of gas to drive 
> > there in a car ($49 ticket on SouthWest). The cost of their tickets should 
> > be about $300 or less per person round trip from their location compared to 
> > about $2000 per person already paid.
> >
> > What do others do for a cancellation policy? In the past, I let someone 
> > come to a future delivery for no extra charge. In that case, the person had 
> > a personal reason for not being able to come. I try to be good to people as 
> > with the person just described plus I let unemployed engineers come at 
> > about to my cost if I have empty seats.
> >
> > What would you do? I could use some advice.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from si-list:
> > si-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
> >
> > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> > 

[PSES] Licensing transmitters in the 70 to 80 GHz band (U.S./Canada)?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I’m looking for someone familiar with the licensing procedure for transmitters 
in the 70-80 GHz band for U.S. and Canada.

Thanks in advance, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EMCO Model 4630 Refrad Comb Generator

[Ken Wyatt]

I would contact ETS-Lindgren in Texas. I believe they still sell that product, 
or at least should be able to provide you with documentation. 

You might also attempt to locate Bill Royce (if he’s still alive), 
ex-Hewlett-Packard Packard, who was the designer of the comb generator 
following his retirement.

Failing all the above, I can recommend harmonic comb generators from Advanced 
Electromagnetic Technology, Com-Power, or York Electronics. I’m sure there are 
others. 

The problem I observed with the original “Royce Generator” (EMCO 4630) was the 
dramatic fall-off in harmonics after about 650 MHz. 

I also wrote an article on DIY comb generators for Interference Technology some 
years back. Just search for “comb generator wyatt” or some such, and it should 
pop up. 

Kenneth Wyatt
Woodland Park, CO
Sent from my iPhone.

> On Mar 30, 2018, at 12:56 AM, Richard Marshall 
> <0aeebd4dc3f4-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I am trying to resurrect the Electronics of an EMCO model 4630 refrad comb 
> generator for use on an international standardisation project. Whilst in 
> storage for the last three years it has developed a fault, I think with the 
> 70 V power supply, but I do not have the schematic to help with further 
> investigation.
> Can anyone supply me with a schematic of this comb generator, or other 
> circuit-board level technical information that might help?
>  
> Thanks in anticipation, and a happy Easter to you all.
>  
> Richard G3SBA
>  
> Richard Marshall Laboratories,
> 30 Ox Lane, Harpenden, Herts.,AL5 4HE, UK
> +44 (0)1582 460815 www.design-emc.co.uk
> Member of the EMC Industry Association
>  
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Looking for writer for EMC Filters

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I’m still looking for a writer that is well-versed in EMC filter design that 
can produce a white paper for ITEM Media (paid gig). The topics are not yet 
defined, but I can send additional information later.

Please reply directly.

Thanks, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Need writer familiar with automotive EMC standard UN ECE regulation 10

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi everyone, here’s an update:

We got a lead on someone today that we’re trying out for this project. However, 
if you’re experienced in some facet of EMC and interested in writing, we have 
an ongoing need for experienced writers for our marketing services part of the 
organization. These assignments are paid gigs.

If interested in joining our pool of experts, please provide me your full 
contact information, short bio, experience and skills within the EMC field, 
links to recent writing, and headshot.

I’m also always on the lookout for writers to help provide content for the 
various Interference Technology publications.

Here’s the editorial calendar for publications this year. Let me know if you 
have any topic ideas. While the regular publications aren’t a paying gig, 
publishing your work does provide many other benefits, the least of which it 
will help you gain “internet presence”, which is very important these days for 
consultants.

Feel free to check out our author’s guidelines: 
https://interferencetechnology.com/editorial-contributions/ 
<https://interferencetechnology.com/editorial-contributions/>

Mar 20 - EMC Fundamentals (digital)

May 29 - Mil/Aero EMC Guide (digital)

July 17 - EMC Testing Guide (digital)

Sep 17 - Automotive EMC (digital)

Oct 5 - Europe EMC Guide (print)

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Ken Wyatt <k...@emc-seminars.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I’m the senior technical editor for Interference Technology Magazine and our 
> marketing services group at ITEM Media (umbrella organization) is looking for 
> a writer to create a white paper and a series of short blog postings on the 
> tests required for UN ECE Regulation 10 for automobile EMC. This would be a 
> paid gig and if you’re interested, I can introduce you to our “client success 
> manager”, Michele, who can provide more information on the assignment. The 
> need is immediate. Ideally, you’d have first hand knowledge of the standard.
> 
> Thanks, Ken
> 
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
> The EMC Blog (EDN)
> Subscribe to Newsletter
> Connect with me on LinkedIn
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

[PSES] Need writer familiar with automotive EMC standard UN ECE regulation 10

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I’m the senior technical editor for Interference Technology Magazine and our 
marketing services group at ITEM Media (umbrella organization) is looking for a 
writer to create a white paper and a series of short blog postings on the tests 
required for UN ECE Regulation 10 for automobile EMC. This would be a paid gig 
and if you’re interested, I can introduce you to our “client success manager”, 
Michele, who can provide more information on the assignment. The need is 
immediate. Ideally, you’d have first hand knowledge of the standard.

Thanks, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Ken Wyatt]

Works for me using a Mac, Safari, and Preview to open it.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:
> 
> Works for me, opening with NitroPro, so it’s not one of those that only opens 
> with Acrobat.
>  
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk  J M Woodgate and 
> Associates Rayleigh England
>  
> Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
>  
> From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: 16 August 2017 23:26
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] EU Blue Guide
>  
> Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
> at http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/ 
>  
>  
> I've tried both formats to no avail.
>  
> thanks, Doug
>  
> -- 
>  
> Douglas E Powell
> 
> doug...@gmail.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell > 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald > 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 

Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding

[Ken Wyatt]

Bravo Gert! I fully agree that a single solid return plane will cure many EMI 
ills. The more separate “ground” return symbols there are, the more difficult 
it is to keep track of all the return paths and to keep them from intermixing. 
As you mention, it’s important to isolate (compartmentalize) motor and power 
control circuit return paths from analog and normal digital return paths. Todd 
Hubing covers this aspect very well in his circuit board design articles at 
http://www.cvel.clemson.edu/emc/index.html 
<http://www.cvel.clemson.edu/emc/index.html>.

I think there’s one other aspect to seriously consider when designing PC boards 
and that is designing with a “fields” viewpoint. We’re all very familiar with 
the “circuits” viewpoint - that is, HF currents flow in loops and these loops 
make every attempt to reduce the loop area through mutual inductance effects. 
When we fail to define the minimum return path, EMI is usually the result. That 
viewpoint is fine up to a point.

We also need to consider the physics of how energy moves in transmission lines 
- especially important when it comes to PDN design and having the ability to 
supply current to local storage devices (decoupling caps) to meet the current 
demands of switching devices. Once you realize the actual field energy moves 
through the dielectric between, say, the microstrip and return plane, you also 
realize that any interruption in that return plane (path) will cause the EM 
field to “leak” and go where its not supposed to go (think “water pipes”). 
Again, the result is EMI. I explained this in more detail in the new 2017 EMC 
Fundamentals Guide, produced by Interference Technology. A free copy may be 
downloaded from here: 
http://learn.interferencetechnology.com/2017-emc-fundamentals-guide/ 
<http://learn.interferencetechnology.com/2017-emc-fundamentals-guide/>.

I also highly recommend Ralph Morrison’s excellent book, “Grounding and 
Shielding - Circuits and Interference” (6th edition) and “Digital Circuit 
Boards - Mach 1 GHz". At 92 years old and still teaching seminars on the 
subject, he’s just wrapping up his 14th book on the physics of EM fields, which 
should be released this fall. It will cover the fields viewpoint when designing 
PC boards in much more detail. If you’d like to learn more about this aspect of 
PC board design, I’ve also invited him to provide the keynote presentation for 
our one-day EMC Live Bootcamp series of free webinars this coming November 
15th. Check https://interferencetechnology.com 
<https://interferencetechnology.com/> for details as we get closer to the date.

Bottom line? Speaking from experience, if you design your boards and products 
from a fields viewpoint, you’ll usually pass EMI. If you don’t, it usually 
means multiple board spins and product fixes.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! <mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com> | Web Site 
<http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <http://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt>
> On Jun 28, 2017, at 11:14 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv, Gert Gremmen 
> <g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote:
> 
> I second that  Personal experience.
> Often I give the advice to get rid of all these grounds and just create one 
> full continuous ground plane
> including DGND AGND SGND and so on. Then customer comes back and has read 
> manufacturers recommendations for a chip and ignored my advice, only to fail 
> again.
> I wonder how the big chip manufacturers application guides are made up. 
> Certainly not with EMI in mind.
> Many times the performance of the system (bits or S/N ratio) also improves 
> afte creating a ground plane.
>  
> There is one situation however, where separate grounds come into view. (rule 
> of thumb) Once the ratio of biggest voltage/current in the  design exceeds 
> 10^5. This happens normally only in power systems (stepper motors / smps / 
> frequency regulated motor drives) or in extreme low signal processing ( uV / 
> nA) systems. Care should be taken that both grounds actually become ONE for 
> out-of-functional (=EMI) frequencies.
> Once the signal comes in the EMI frequency range, other ways of 
> discrimination between common mode interference currents and differential 
> mode signal currents are necessary. (balanced signal twisted pairs, common 
> mode coils, transformers).  
>  
> Gert Gremmen
>  
>  
> From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:

Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding

[Ken Wyatt]

Bill, thanks for the complement. One of my mentors, Dr. Tom Van Doren, of the 
University Missouri - Rolla, would say “the more different “ground” symbols he 
saw in a schematic, the more business he knew he would get”.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! <mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com> | Web Site 
<http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <http://design-4-emc.com/>
The EMC Blog (EDN) <http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog>
Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
Connect with me on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt>
> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:57 PM, Bill Stumpf <bstu...@dlsemc.com> wrote:
> 
> Truly outstanding analogies Ken, Ralph & Bill.  I too cringe every time I 
> hear the term "ground" bandied about in EMI circles.  It's a widely 
> misunderstood term that the non-initiated envision as some sort of EMI black 
> hole that's by some means able to soak up all that excess RF energy.  I'm 
> sure we all could tell some stories from the lab.   
>  
>  
> Bill
>  
>  
> From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 1:29 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding
>  
> Like they say in some movies…”follow the money”. In the case of EMC issues, 
> it’s usually “follow the current”. Both differential and common mode currents 
> want to return to their sources in the most expedient (low-impedance) route. 
> If designers fail to define a return path, invariably, some of that RF 
> current radiates. Once the noise source(s) are identified, then what’s the 
> return path? There will always be a return path…just not always the one you 
> want.
>  
> Cheers, Ken
> 
> ___
>  
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Email Me! <mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com> | Web Site 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <http://design-4-emc.com/>
> The EMC Blog (EDN) <http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog>
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html>
> Connect with me on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt>
>  
> On Jun 28, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Ralph McDiarmid 
> <ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com 
> <mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com>> wrote:
>  
> Rather than 'ground', perhaps 'RF return' or 'counterpoise' might be better 
> terms?
> 
> I think the thing that makes EMC mysterious is that the complete RF circuit 
> is unseen and difficult to accurately define, given all the parasitic 
> elements.  The experience of 'inside' verses 'outside' the chassis envelope a 
> prime example, something I encountered some years ago, but never fully 
> understood.
> 
> Ralph McDiarmid
> Product Compliance
> Engineering
> Solar Business
> Schneider Electric
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Owsley [mailto:00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
> <mailto:00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>] 
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:33 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding
> 
> Ancient EMC mythology, well proven to be wrong and so abandoned decades ago.
> And still it pops on occasion and often with new twists to revive the 
> mythology.So it gets ignored as those new to the stories, such that they 
> cannot figure it out, will need the lessons of 'on the job training'.
> ps. the proper terminology needed to clearly enunciate the concepts is not 
> settled.
> The physics is plain and simple but to describe it takes a lot words due to a 
> lack of commonly understood terminology.
> For example 'ground' serves as the catchall term, for shielding, signal 
> return, power return, zero reference, analog return, digital return, chassis, 
> circuit, logic, cable,  AND for Safety as in earth ground.
> Now Maxwell's law's (made up by a mad Scotman back in the 1800's) dictate 
> that a so-called signal must be accompanied by its return signal, and further 
> more that return signal will couple as close as possible to 

Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding

[Ken Wyatt]

Like they say in some movies…”follow the money”. In the case of EMC issues, 
it’s usually “follow the current”. Both differential and common mode currents 
want to return to their sources in the most expedient (low-impedance) route. If 
designers fail to define a return path, invariably, some of that RF current 
radiates. Once the noise source(s) are identified, then what’s the return path? 
There will always be a return path…just not always the one you want.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jun 28, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Ralph McDiarmid 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rather than 'ground', perhaps 'RF return' or 'counterpoise' might be better 
> terms?
> 
> I think the thing that makes EMC mysterious is that the complete RF circuit 
> is unseen and difficult to accurately define, given all the parasitic 
> elements.  The experience of 'inside' verses 'outside' the chassis envelope a 
> prime example, something I encountered some years ago, but never fully 
> understood.
> 
> Ralph McDiarmid
> Product Compliance
> Engineering
> Solar Business
> Schneider Electric
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Owsley [mailto:00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
> ] 
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:33 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] USB dongle connector shield filtered grounding
> 
> Ancient EMC mythology, well proven to be wrong and so abandoned decades ago.
> And still it pops on occasion and often with new twists to revive the 
> mythology.So it gets ignored as those new to the stories, such that they 
> cannot figure it out, will need the lessons of 'on the job training'.
> ps. the proper terminology needed to clearly enunciate the concepts is not 
> settled.
> The physics is plain and simple but to describe it takes a lot words due to a 
> lack of commonly understood terminology.
> For example 'ground' serves as the catchall term, for shielding, signal 
> return, power return, zero reference, analog return, digital return, chassis, 
> circuit, logic, cable,  AND for Safety as in earth ground.
> Now Maxwell's law's (made up by a mad Scotman back in the 1800's) dictate 
> that a so-called signal must be accompanied by its return signal, and further 
> more that return signal will couple as close as possible to the original 
> so-called signal.  The two parts are inextricably intertwined and cannot be 
> considered separately, without great risk to ones grasp of reality.  Just as 
> the alleged E-field and H-field are two aspects of the same thing, which 
> conveniently might be called the Poynting Vector, and are related by the 
> Impedance, the ratio of the two fields, which in free space, well away from 
> any conducting structures, is approximately 377 ohms.
> 
> Now conducting structures, ones like a circuit 'ground', a chassis 'ground', 
> a shielding 'ground' and signal returns often called 'ground' and the concept 
> of 'inside' verses 'outside' which seems to ignore Maxwell, are all going to 
> make for a rich realm of mythology which is not well defined and so, all 
> sorts of imaginings are created to fill all the constructed voids from using 
> all these artificial concepts, when one simple concept is necessary and 
> sufficient to complete the structure.
> 
> Aside:  If that secret, the simple one, was to be 'leaked' to common 
> knowledge, we all would be out of a job in managing EMC since even the simple 
> digital guys could understand it.  So we keep it under-wraps and obscure by 
> using mysterious language so that the neophytes and uninitiated think that 
> they understand and/or have no clue as to what is going on. 
> 
> Always the correct answer: "It depends!"- Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> __
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> 

Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV?

[Ken Wyatt]

Simple - it’s not taught in the colleges/universities. Most product designers 
don’t have the first clue. The same holds true for regulatory compliance.

I love this job!

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jan 10, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Grasso, Charles  
> wrote:
> 
> [ShowerThoughts]
> Given the amount of effort that goes into EMC research, design, manufacturing 
> etc.. shouldn’t  
> compliant devices be the norm and not the exception?
>  
> [I understand variability and so on … but really …?]
>  
> Best Regards
> Charles Grasso
> Compliance Engineer
> Echostar Communications
> (w) 303-706-5467
> (c) 303-204-2974
> (t) 3032042...@vtext.com 
> (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com 
> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com 
>  
>  
>  
> From: Brent DeWitt [mailto:bdew...@ix.netcom.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:11 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV?
>  
> I should have mentioned that, in this case, we (Bose Corp.) are the test lab 
> and it's our equipment we're testing.  We just came out with a couple of new 
> audio-for-video devices that route HDMI through to pick out the 5.1 surround. 
>  Had a heck of a time finding good sources and sinks.
>  
> Not sure there are very many test reports to be looked at since TVs are 
> verification only device.  I suppose that more might be found if they 
> incorporate non-modular Wi-Fi or RF remotes..
>  
> Brent
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Jim Bacher 
> Sent: Jan 10, 2017 8:15 AM 
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
> Subject: Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV? 
> 
> It is ok to post recommendations on devices that are good for testing to this 
> list.  As the list is archived one can always search the archives for such 
> things. 
>  
> I have used several approaches to finding good support devices. I have like 
> others looked at FCC test reports.  For the most part it was after getting 
> recommendations to make sure it was a good choice.  I look to make sure it 
> was tested properly and had 6 dB of margin. That allows for production 
> variations. I have on rare occasions looked for good support devices on the 
> FCC website. 
>  
> I have also contacted compliance engineers at the company of interest to see 
> what they recommend.  In one case they told me not to use theirs. 
>  
> Not everyone supplies all support devices needed for testing.  So the test 
> labs do have support devices.  Therefore you can ask your test lab as well,  
> as they might have favorite support devices. 
>  
> Jim
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 
>  
>  
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 

Re: [PSES] lowest emissions 4k TV?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Brent,

When I was looking for my first big flat screen TV, it was just when LED 
backlighting was coming into vogue. A friend of mine, and amateur radio 
astronomer, had earlier purchased one of the plasma sets from Panasonic and 
discovered the broadband noise level had increased by 30 dB at his place, 
negating any thought of listening to planets and galaxies.

He eventually contacted the EMC guy there and together determined the set 
probably didn’t comply with FCC regulations. Panasonic eventually “bought back” 
the set and he went with an LED-backlit set, which was much quieter.

Circling back to my purchase and knowing this back-story as well as my interest 
in ham radio, I walked into Best Buy with my portable spec an and telescoping 
antenna. As I started measuring each set, it wasn’t long before a group of 
sales guys gathered to ask what in the world I was doing! So, of course, as a 
consultant and trainer in EMC, I proceeded to give them a short introduction to 
EMC and radiated emissions. Everyone had a good time, as well as learning 
something.

Yes, I managed to find a “quiet” set - a Toshiba. Maybe you could do the same?

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jan 9, 2017, at 6:56 PM, Brent DeWitt  wrote:
> 
> Hi group,
>  
> Any suggestions on the best available 4k TV for emissions testing support?  
> We seem to be in a continuous churn of looking for good, commercially 
> available, sources and sinks.  It would be a real plus if it also had ARC 
> capability!
>  
> I’m also wondering if there would be much support for a WIKI site for the EMC 
> community to post their findings on support devices.  Nothing proprietary, 
> just measurements of “off the shelf” support equipment like TVs, monitors and 
> sources.
>  
> Thanks all!
>  
> Brent DeWitt
> Milford, MA
> 
>  
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] HDMI questions

[Ken Wyatt]

I’d like to reinforce James’ point on the poor shield bonding on many mid- to 
low-priced HDMI cables. Usually. it’s just a 1” pigtail, which can easily cause 
EMI failures. Because brands and cable models come and go, I always suggest 
clients buy at least two of everything and cut one apart to physically inspect 
the shield termination.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Pawson, James  wrote:
> 
> Ah, hello 742.5MHz my old friend.
>  
> Alfred’s analysis in his email is good especially regarding frame rate. If 
> you look in the 1.4 HDMI standard in section 5.1.2 you can see that the 
> “vertical blanking” period consists of 45 lines. A breakdown of what’s 
> contained within follows below that section. You can conduct further analysis 
> of this period by using an FFT function on a high bandwidth digital scope 
> (although you may struggle with the lower number of samples available in this 
> target block) to narrow in on which part of the signal is causing you issues.
>  
> As for the frequency:
>  
> 1080p/50Hz resolution uses a clock frequency of 148.5MHz. The three data 
> pairs frequency is 5 x f_clk = 742.5MHz. Expect to see multiples of the clock 
> at 445.5, 594 and 891MHz and plenty of emissions above 1GHz at 1485, 2227.5, 
> 2970MHz, etc.
> 1080i/50Hz and 720p/50Hz resolution uses clock of 74.25MHz and data of 371.25 
> MHz
>  
> It is this data fundamental that causes many of the radiated emissions 
> problems associated with HDMI.
>  
> This can be caused by poor signal integrity, mainly uneven tr/tf within each 
> half of the differential pair. Possible solutions involve playing around with 
> the pre-emphasis and drive strength register settings within the silicon, 
> remembering to verify the signal integrity if you’ve found a combination that 
> seems to work.
>  
> Inline common mode chokes sometimes help at frequencies above 1GHz but more 
> often not at these “lower” frequencies in the HDMI interface.
>  
> Your best bet is carefully selecting a HDMI cable that has good shielding 
> termination between cable screen and backshell. This is mostly a case of 
> trial and error when purchasing from catalogs (forget eBay or Amazon here) or 
> working with the cable vendor (e.g. Molex, Amphenol, Palpilot – other 
> reputable cable vendors are available) to specify a decent quality cable. Cut 
> open a $1 cable from Amazon and marvel at the internal construction!
>  
> I hope this helps,
> Best of luck
> James
>  
>  
> From: Brent DeWitt [mailto:bdew...@ix.netcom.com] 
> Sent: 15 October 2016 23:58
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] HDMI questions
>  
> I’ve been working with some Silicon Images (Lattice Semi) 9777 multiplexer 
> chips lately and would appreciate any insight list members might have.  When 
> used at any resolution below 4k, there seems to be a 10 dB emission 
> “pedestal” that stands out of the baseline emission at several frequencies, 
> 742 MHz in particular.  The pedestal is 666 usec long and repeats at whatever 
> frame rate is selected.  At first, I thought it was correlated with the SPI 
> bus activity, since the timing was identical, but further experiments show 
> that not to be true.
>  
> My question is, is this inherent to HDMI, or to the 9777?  As is probably 
> obvious, I don’t have a whole lot of experience with HDMI video.
>  
> Thanks all!
>  
> Brent DeWitt, AB1LF
> Milford, MA
>  
>  
> 
>   
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: 

Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough..

[Ken Wyatt]

I agree with Ghery that interference complaints from typical PC/ITE systems 
have dropped, but they’ve been getting numerous complaints lately, related to 
interference from lighting and in particular, out of compliance switching power 
supplies from offshore.

See: 
http://www.interferencetechnology.com/fcc-wants-help-understanding-spectral-noise-floor/
 


The overall noise floor below 200 MHz has increased to the point where the FCC 
is asking industry (and individuals) for historical noise floor data to assist 
with their analysis of the situation.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:26 AM, Ghery S. Pettit  wrote:
> 
> The FCC also is taking the route mandated by their charter - protect the 
> radio users from interference.  Part 15 apparently does that adequately as 
> interference complaints to the FCC have dropped to the noise level.  Not so 
> before Part 15, Subpart J was published in the late 1970s.  Part 15 is doing 
> its job.  Immunity testing isn't a "protection of the spectrum" issue.  
> Besides, with the legal climate in the US, if the FCC mandated a certain 
> level of immunity and someone was injured because that level wasn't high 
> enough (allegedly or in actuality) the FCC would be sued.  Might not be 
> successfully, but it is something to be avoided.  Keep in mind that the 
> commissioners are political appointees.  Their job is to do their job while 
> not making the President look bad.  Getting hauled into court doesn't do that 
> so well.  Just another viewpoint...
> 
> Ghery S. Pettit
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] 
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 8:00 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough..
> 
> Cortland 
> 
> Sound like Congress being "ruled" by "big" and/or "small business" interests 
> to make the FCC take the path of least resistance - I would have thought that 
> their approach might have been deemed as being not in the general public 
> interest, but I can now see where you are coming from on the warrantee front.
> 
> OTOH, from what I think you wrote earlier, some States would not permit that 
> warrantee approach - sounds like more "vested interests" coming into play 
> there.
> 
> Looks like rather a no-win situation on immunity improvements for products 
> for the general public in the foreseeable future - unless, possibly, one or 
> more important States were persuaded to pass appropriate legislation on the 
> basis of the dangers from not doing so, as has been the cases related to 
> environmental protection and energy conservation (and so on) that have 
> affected the design and sale of electronic equipment 
> 
> Oh well, maybe someday EMC issues really will begin to "bite" a lot more 
> people across the country and something will, most belatedly, be done at the 
> Federal level.
> 
> John E Allen
> W. London, UK
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: 30 September 2016 14:58
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough..
> 
> On 9/30/2016 8:59 AM, Dieter Paasche wrote:
>> The operator of a radio frequency device shall be required to cease 
>> operating the device *upon notification by a Commission
>> representative* that the device is causing harmful interference.
> [emphasis added]
> 
> The FCC has been reluctant to make that notification even after numerous 
> complaints, as being too zealous in enforcing the Rules has historically 
> resulted in Congress reducing the funds available to do so. You know the 
> saying 'Was nicht ausdrücklich erlaubt ist, ist verboten'; we have gone quite 
> the opposite way to "Alles was nicht erlaubt ist, ist pflichtig" 
> –  at least when there is profit to be had.
> 
> This is why I advocate placing a requirement the vendor warrant 
> noninterference and RF immunity in the purchase contract.  What laws can't 
> do, money can.
> 
> Cortland Richmond
> KA5S
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc 

[PSES] Automotive standards requiring BCI or current probes?

[Ken Wyatt]

Not well versed in the automotive standards, I'm curious which are the most 
common that would require the use of BCI clamps or current probes?

Are any of these manufacturer-specific?

Which ones should I get?

Thanks in advance. 

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
Sent from my iPhone.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] iNARTE EMC accreditation - thoughts?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi James,

May I offer an alternative viewpoint to my esteemed colleagues (I guess there’s 
one in every crowd)? I believe the answer to gaining iNARTE certification is 
“it depends”, like so many other questions in EMC.

When NAVLAP initially proposed and promoted the idea of a NARTE certification 
for EMC engineers and technicians, the only method for gaining a 
"certification” was to provide 10 Q to help develop a question pool. At that 
time, I thought, “well, that’s not going to be too meaningful to anyone who 
really understands how the initial batch of 'certified' engineers obtained 
their badges”, and while I thought about contributing, never did. Through the 
years, though, I do believe those going through the program certainly come away 
with a meaningful certification they can use to help self-promote themselves.

Back to my answer of “it depends”. If you’re an unknown quantity approaching a 
potential client, then yes, I believe iNARTE certification would be at least 
something you could dangle in front of them - even though they probably have 
never heard of it.

On the other hand, if you’re a “known quantity”, that is, have an established 
internet presence, and have published many articles and books on the subject, 
then I believe that fact would be much more meaningful to a potential client. 
You can now approach them with, “in fact I’ve written a book on the subject”, 
and that alone will hold much more weight than any (usually unknown to them) 
certification.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Aug 10, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Pawson, James  wrote:
> 
> Hello fellow engineers,
>  
> With an eye on the future, I am considering taking an iNARTE EMC 
> qualification. Specifically, I’m considering one (or possibly both) of these 
> accreditations.
>  
> iNARTE EMC Design Engineer Certification
> iNARTE Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC/EMI) Certification
>  
> I’m looking for your advice and experience of
>  
> Gaining these qualifications
> Views of the engineering community on the worth of these qualifications
> Suggestions as to which one of these would be most beneficial for a career in 
> EMC either working as a company employee or as a contractor/consultant in EMC 
> testing and design
>  
> I appreciate these are open questions and I would appreciate any and all 
> opinions. If you feel more comfortable replying off list then please do.
>  
> Thanks and regards,
> James Pawson
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)

Re: [PSES] Need a LARGE Chamber

[Ken Wyatt]

Hmmm Doug, well that’s an interesting one.

You might consider doing what John McCloskey (Chief EMC Engineer for NASA’s 
James Web Space Telescope) did and perform the immunity tests on just the 
electronics control package, rather than the whole enchilada (in John’s case, 
the entire satellite). You should be able to simulate the actual incinerator in 
some way, such that the essential testing is done to just that part of the 
system that is most meaningful.

You might want to listen to John’s keynote presentation at 
http://www.emclive2016.com as it may be directly applicable to your situation. 
You may gain some interesting insight.

I can’t imaging ANYONE allowing you to test an incinerator in their chamber!  
Ha!

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:30 AM, Douglas Nix  wrote:
> 
> I am working with a client that is building a portable incinerator system 
> that is built into three full-size sea containers and burns diesel fuel as 
> the primary fuel. It has a stack that is about 60 ft when fully assembled. We 
> need to do a fully assembled test, and I need access to either a BIG chamber 
> with a hole in the roof, or a remote OATS where I can to a 50 V/m radiated 
> immunity test.
> 
> Oh, and it needs to be in Canada.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated!
> 
> --
> Doug Nix
> d...@mac.com 
> 
> If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; 
> that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Mark Twain 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Oscilloscope probe calibration

[Ken Wyatt]

Doug, you’re such a tease! :-)

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jul 12, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Douglas Smith  wrote:
> 
> Here is a bit of suspence for Friday, free webinar on this topic (joining 
> details available shortly).the addition of a simple change to the probe 
> significantly improves, almost eliminates, frequency response problems due to 
> the ground lead and circuit impedance. Can you guess what it is? Got a patent 
> on this 30+ ago while at Bell Labs, expired now  
> so in public domain. It applies to both active and 10x Hi-z passive probes 
> and is incorporated now in most high speed active probes. It can recover an 
> octave of well behaved frequency response at essentially no cost.
> 
> No spoilers from alumni of my seminars please! Will give the answer next week 
> for those that cannot make the free webinar. Just wanted to get people 
> thinking.
> 
> Doug Smith
> Sent from my iPhone
> IPhone:  408-858-4528
> Office:702-570-6108
> Email: d...@dsmith.org
> Website: http://dsmith.org
> 
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 04:17, B Rowland  wrote:
> Hello PSES crew;
> 
> 
> T Sato wrote:
> 
> > "Performance of passive probes strongly depends to the oscilloscope,
> > so I think it should always be calibrated with a specific oscilloscope
> > channel."
> 
> Indeed, not only "should", but MUST, as John Woodgate stressed.
> 
> But, as I mentioned, the calibration is often meaningless, if it does not 
> account for non-monotonic frequency response, , the Gaussian that is 
> expected, which results in unexpected transient response.
> 
> Additionally, the calibration becomes "broken" as soon as the probe/scope 
> combination is used in any "real world" application where the impedance of 
> the DUT circuit is unknown, or not the same as the calibration circuit, since 
> the probe reactive loading varies with instantaneous frequency ("typical" 500 
> MHz passive probe reaches 50 Ω loading at about 320 MHz), and the combination 
> of probe capacitance, circuit capacitance and ground lead/ground clip/ground 
> connection loop size, all cause resonances at rather common frequencies/edge 
> rates.
> 
> Probably the best 'calibration' is to attach the passive probe to a circuit 
> to be tested, and attach a low-capacitance active probe to the same point, to 
> see the "real" signal at the passive probe's tip… this could be quite a 
> surprise ;-)
> 
> In short, "Your mileage may vary" is good advice when it comes to probing
> 
> If Doug Smith does offer a webinar, please do consider attending, if you are 
> at all unsure of this whole "can of worms" that probing is!
> 
> Best regards,
> Barry Rowland
> Formerly " Senior Application Specialist, Oscilloscopes", Rohde & Schwarz 
> (and FAE at Tektronix and Agilent)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/07/2016, at 12:42 PM, "T.Sato"  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:08:04 +0100,
> > John Woodgate  wrote:
> > 
> >> Slight under-compensation would cause a brief overshoot to 138 V. In my
> >> opinion, probes can't be calibrated except with the scope they are
> >> exclusively used with. Covering the cal adjuster with a sticker shows a 
> >> deep
> >> misunderstanding of how passive probes work.
> > 
> > Agreed.
> > Performance of passive probes strongly depends to the oscilloscope,
> > so I think it should always be calibrated with a specific oscilloscope
> > channel.
> > 
> > EURAMET cg-7 (calibration of oscilloscopes),
> > https://www.euramet.org/get/?tx_stag_base%5Bfile%5D=3611_stag_base%5Bidentifier%5D=%252Fdocs%252FPublications%252Fcalguides%252FEURAMET_cg-7__v_1.0_Calibration_of_Oscilloscopes.pdf_stag_base%5Baction%5D=downloadRaw_stag_base%5Bcontroller%5D=Base
> > also says "For multi-channel systems, the measurement result must be
> > related with the corresponding oscilloscope channel. A probe
> > calibration is only valid in combination with the calibrated
> > oscilloscope (indicated in the calibration certificate). The probe
> > calibration must be clearly related to the applied channel."
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Tom
> > 
> > 
> >> From: Schaefer, David [mailto:dschae...@tuvam.com] 
> >> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 10:50 PM
> >> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> >> Subject: [PSES] Oscilloscope probe calibration
> >> 
> >> All,
> >> 
> >> We're seeing an issue with scope probes, and I'd appreciate 

Re: [PSES] Brexit and the European Compliance Complex

[Ken Wyatt]

I just updated the EMC Zone blog, “Britain after Brexit, with accent on EMC". I 
had also asked EMC/regulatory consultant, Keith Armstrong, to weigh in on the 
subject, and he has provided some additional insight.

http://www.emc-zone.com/2016/06/britain-after-brexit-with-accent-on-emc.html 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jun 26, 2016, at 2:05 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:
> 
> I can't see any reason to invalidate the CE mark. The former 'BEAB' mark was 
> demoted to voluntary after the general agreement in Europe to move away from 
> 3rd-party certification, mostly due to legal liability issues – the test 
> houses were being asked to declare safe products whose contents were not 
> anywhere near sufficiently under their control.
>  
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk  J M Woodgate and 
> Associates Rayleigh England
> We live in exiting times
>  
> From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:27 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Brexit and the European Compliance Complex
>  
>  
> Will the CE mark continue to be accepted in the U.K.?  Or, will the old U.K. 
> marks be resurrected?
>  
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell > 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald > 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 

Re: [PSES] Brexit and the European Compliance Complex

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Ed,

While this vote by the people of Britain is rather monumental, I’m also of the 
opinion that the effect on EMC standards will be negligible. The process for 
submittals may change, however. We’ll have to see as the process continues. As 
editor of Interference Technology, I’ve asked our colleague, John Woodgate, to 
provide some initial commentary and insight. This has been published in The EMC 
Zone, our blog site.

I’d encourage any of your comments: 
http://www.emc-zone.com/2016/06/britain-after-brexit-with-accent-on-emc.html 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jun 26, 2016, at 5:10 AM, Ed Price  wrote:
> 
> Now that the UK has voted to withdraw from the European Union, how will this 
> affect the regulatory compliance landscape of the UK market? I have heard 
> that trade into the EU represents about 6% of the UK’s GDP (is that true). If 
> that is so, then will the UK assert its own national compliance structure? 
> Will the UK simply copy the existing EU compliance Directives, Norms and 
> Standards (as they were already published in UK versions), or will the UK 
> feel it necessary to have a complete new system? (I recall that the British 
> MoD decided on this second option, essentially rewriting the US MIL-STD-461 
> as their own DEF-STAN 59-41 and then 59-411.)
>  
> Is there a sense within the UK that having to follow the numerous, complex 
> and opaque EU regulations (sorry to have to say that, but that seems to be 
> >80% of all our conversations now) has become onerous and that a move to UK 
> national regulations would be a chance to simplify and eliminate burdens?
>  
> The current UK government was not enthusiastic about Brexit, so are there any 
> predictions about how happily and efficiently it will move to complete the 
> withdrawal (I understand that they have 2 years maximum). However, assuming 
> that the current government does move ahead to comply with the will of their 
> nation, what are the first significant changes that will affect both UK 
> companies and foreign companies trading with the UK?
>  
> Ed Price
> WB6WSN
> Chula Vista, CA USA
> 
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David 

Re: [PSES] IEEE EMC Magazine

[Ken Wyatt]

Doug, it’s just not posted yet to the site. Give it a few days.

http://www.emcs.org/index.html 

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:49 PM, Doug Powell  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have in my inbox the first quarter issue of the IEEE EMC Magazine.  Or so I 
> thought... try as I might I cannot locate a place where I can download the 
> entire magazine as a single PDF.  Instead all I find is a very granular 
> collection of one page or two page PDFs.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the right direction to find that single complete 
> document?
> 
> Thanks,  Doug
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E Powell
> 
> doug...@gmail.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Handheld or portable voltmeter/ammeter with built-in and adjustable limit function with audible alarm

[Ken Wyatt]

Maybe one of these could work.

http://www.poweringthenetwork.com/site-power-monitor/ 


https://www.gavazzionline.com/pdf/DIB71CB.eng.pdf 


https://www.microdaq.com/data-loggers/voltage-current.php 


www.westell.com/document/dc-power-monitoring/?dl=1 




___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On May 30, 2016, at 9:56 AM, Ken Javor  wrote:
> 
> For an EMI test, I need to monitor direct current and set a limit above which 
> I get an audible alarm.  I don’t want to constantly have to watch an 
> ammeter/voltmeter while also operating the susceptibility equipment. I also 
> don’t want to have to connect a DVM to a PC; I want the limit setting 
> function to be self-contained.  Seems as if there ought to be such a device, 
> but I can’t find it. Doesn’t have to be an ammeter per se; if it can measure 
> dc millivolts, I can use a current shunt. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] measurement of transient radiation emission

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Li Di,

Both Ed and Cortland gave you some good advice. Capturing the frequency content 
of a transient signal is main “claim to fame” of the real-time (RT) spectrum 
analyzer and you might want to refer to the new guide we published recently, 
“Real-Time” Spectrum Analyzer Mini Guide”, which may be downloaded here:

http://www.interferencetechnology.com (click on the guide in the upper left 
corner of our home page)

RT analyzers are the ideal solution to capturing transient events within their 
RT bandwidth, which can range from 27 to 500 MHz, typically. However, for a 
spark event, as you’re describing, the energy will greatly exceed the real-time 
bandwidth of any RT analyzer I’m aware of. As Ed suggests, I’ve managed to 
capture repeated events using the “max hold” feature of a swept analyzer, but 
you must let the spectral envelope build up gradually. This may be good enough 
for your purposes and I would expect the bulk of the energy to extend out to 
2-3 GHz. 

The other alternative, as Cortland suggests is to use a fast oscilloscope of at 
least 6 GHz bandwidth to capture the transient and convert to frequency via the 
FFT feature. I’ve captured spark events successfully with this method, but 
you’ll have to manually figure out the gains and losses in the system to 
calculate the actual E-field generated from the spark.

One other possible alternative would be to use one of the newer FFT-based 
spectrum analyzers that can perform the capture with very little “dead time”.

Cheers, Ken
___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On May 11, 2016, at 11:52 PM, Li Di  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I need to measure the transient radiation emission from a big industrial 
> system. There is a discharg between its two electrodes with high voltage 
> difference. My client wants to measure the transient interference at their 
> facility. I plan to use spectrum analyzer and antenna (or near field probe). 
> But the scan time of some spectrum analyzers is long. It is not easy to catch 
> the inteference. Could anyone give me some advice? Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>  
>> Li Di
>> Conorth Technologies Co., Ltd.
>> ---
>> Address: Room 212, Building C, No.15 Baiziwan Road, Chaoyang District, 
>> Beijing
>> Tel (Fax): 0086-10-60530811 (Office)
>> Mobile: 0086-13701332910
>> Email: li...@conorthtech.com 
>> Website: www.conorthtech.com 
>> --
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  

[PSES] Fwd: [PSES] Current probe for CM currents

[Ken Wyatt]

Ken is correct. Near field probes are good for finding sources, but current 
probes are better for characterizing the emissions from cables. However, if the 
EUT has a leaky enclosure, or other radiating structures besides cables, you'll 
really need to monitor the emissions from a distance while you're 
troubleshooting. I've found a distance of 1m works well. For small EUTs, I 
place them at one end of a bench and set up a small monitoring antenna and 
spectrum analyzer at the other. I've written many articles on this technique. 
Take a look at The EMC Blog in EDN.com. I also wrote an article on how to make 
and use current probes for Interference Technology. 

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
Sent from my iPhone.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Ken Javor 
> Date: January 14, 2016 at 5:14:36 PM MST
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Current probe for CM currents
> Reply-To: Ken Javor 
> 
> IMO, a near field probe gets you back to where Bill Owlsley was at: you are X 
> dB over the limit on the test site, so you wave a probe around and look for X 
> dB reduction in signal from whatever change was made, hoping the probe picks 
> up something proportional to the RE field at three or ten meters.
> 
> Whereas with a current probe, even without any site testing, a common mode 
> conducted emission (CMCE) limit can be determined based on the three or ten 
> meter RE limit, and then the design work is done on the cable before any 
> testing at any site.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: "McDiarmid, Ralph" 
> Reply-To: "ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com" 
> 
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:20:33 -0800
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Current probe for CM currents
> 
> Would a Near Field probe be a better choice?
> ___
>  
> 
> Ralph McDiarmid  |  Schneider Electric  |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
> Regulatory Compliance Engineering 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Ken Javor  
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG, 
> Date: 01/13/2016 01:22 PM 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Current probe for CM currents 
> 
> 
> 
> A current probe measures the net current on the conductor within its opening. 
>  The impedance of the circuits attached to that conductor may affect how much 
> current flows through the conductor, but not the measurement thereof.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
> From: Amund Westin 
> Reply-To: Amund Westin 
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:48:23 +0100
> To: 
> Subject: [PSES] Current probe for CM currents
> 
> Planning to do some EMI troubleshooting with a «homemade» current probe.
> Probing a lot of cables inside a rack and try to find the source.
> Will make a current probe by a ferrite core (two halves, a few turns wire and 
> coax plug) as many EMI experts have posted on the web and on this forum. 
> Then find the Zt[dBohm], so make a measurement on a cable and verify the 
> readings on the spectrum. 
>  
> But when clamping on the current probe, which is a ferrite, does that change 
> the cable impedance and therefore actually changes the real current flow, so 
> my reading will not be true? ... or am I missing some fundamental theory 
> here? ...
>  
> #Amund 
>  
>  
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
>  
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/  
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
>  (including how to unsubscribe) 
>   
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
>  
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell  
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher  
> David Heald  
> 
> 
> __
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> 

Re: [PSES] Best antenna for IEC 61000-4-3

[Ken Wyatt]

Just move the antenna in to a 1m test distance!  :-)

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Jan 8, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Ghery S. Pettit  wrote:
> 
> Talk to the antenna vendors.  20 V/m with 100 Watts is going to be tough.
> 
> Ghery Pettit
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Best antenna for IEC 61000-4-3
> 
> I'm looking for suggestions on the best antenna to use for Radiated Immunity
> test according to IEC 61000-4-3 between 80Mhz and 1Ghz. (we use a dual ridge
> horn above 1Ghz).
> 
> Our goal is to find an antenna which is not too large, yet, will give us
> good gain at the low end so we can generate 18-20V/m with a 100 watt
> amplifier.
> 
> I've looked at the hybrid antennas and they just don't seem to have enough
> gain at the low end. It appears that most labs that use this type of antenna
> requires a 200 watt amp.
> 
> Looks like a Log Periodic has much better gain and should work but we don't
> want the radials to get too close to the floor. Plus, some of these are
> nearly 2 meters long.
> 
> Any suggestions or recommendations? What antenna do you use and how much
> power do you required to achieve 10V/m with 80% AM modulation without
> clipping??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> The Other Brian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
> information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this
> by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim 

Re: [PSES] Preselector requirement in ANSIC63.4 -low PRF

[Ken Wyatt]

I would think that if the measurements were taken in a chamber and the product 
emissions were characterized and amplitudes known and the analyzer was a good 
quality one, justification could be made to eliminate the preselector. 

I suspect the requirement was established during the days we all were using 
OATS. 

Kenneth Wyatt
Woodland Park, CO
Sent from my iPhone.

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 12:58 PM, Sundstrom, Mike  
> wrote:
> 
> So the SA is not in overload, which could give a wrong amplitude otherwise.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Michael Sundstrom
> Garmin Compliance Engineer
> 2-2606
> (913) 440-1540
> KB5UKT
>  
> “Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
> it.
> The time will pass anyway.”
> Earl Nightingale
>  
> From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:53 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Preselector requirement in ANSIC63.4 -low PRF
>  
> Hell all,
>  
> ANSI C63 *requires* the use of a preselector on an SA when making QP 
> measurements 
> of a signal with a low repetition rate (lower than 20Hz or less).  Does 
> anyone know why?
>  
> Best Regards
> Charles Grasso
> Compliance Engineer
> Echostar Communications
> (w) 303-706-5467
> (c) 303-204-2974
> (t) 3032042...@vtext.com
> (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use 
> of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential 
> and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please 
> notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, 
> copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by 
> someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] QP Dectector - how to confirm accuracy & functionality

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Chas,

Might be a bit pricy, but the AET USDS spherical comb gen has a pulsed feature 
that can check QP detectors. See my review:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439682/Review--The-AET-USDS-spherical-harmonic-comb-generator
 


Alternatively, if you can find an RF generator with pulse modulation, set it to 
2 Hz and the comparison between the sine (CW) signal with peak detection and 
the pulsed signal in QP detection should be about 3 dB lower. Put another way, 
a sine wave signal with either peak or QP detection should read the same. With 
the pulsed signal the QP detector will read lower by about 3 dB.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Oct 19, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Grasso, Charles  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  
> Does anyone know of a gizmo or procedure that provides a standard signal
> for checking the accuracy of a QP detector in a SA?
>  
> Thanks in advance!!
>  
> Best Regards
> Charles Grasso
> Compliance Engineer
> Echostar Communications
> (w) 303-706-5467
> (c) 303-204-2974
> (t) 3032042...@vtext.com 
> (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com 
> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com 
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, etc,) Where?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I reported on the grow light issue some months ago.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438864/How-cops-are-finding--grow-ops--with-AM-radios
 


Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:38 AM, Sundstrom, Mike  
> wrote:
> 
> Ed,
> Some of the lamps have a warning to not use at USCG radio sites.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Michael Sundstrom
> Garmin Compliance Engineer
> 2-2606
> (913) 440-1540
> KB5UKT
>  
> “Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
> it.
> The time will pass anyway.”
> Earl Nightingale
>  
> From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:21 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, 
> etc,) Where?
>  
> The ARRL (American Radio Relay League, the US national ham radio club) has 
> its own shielded enclosure  and EMI lab. They have recently tested 
> agricultural "grow lights" and have found almost every sample exceeds CE 
> limits (some by almost 60 dB). After no success in solving this condition 
> with the manufacturers, the ARRL has submitted their data to the FCC and 
> asked for recalls of the offending models. Hams also report problems with the 
> switching power supplies associated with commercial LED light bulbs.
>  
> It will be interesting to see how the FCC reacts to a request to recall large 
> volumes of consumer products; as far as I know, the last time the FCC was 
> faced with controlling a large and uncaring market was back in the CB radio 
> era of the 1970’s, and that didn’t work out very well at all.
>  
> Ed Price
> WB6WSN
> Chula Vista, CA USA
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: CR [mailto:k...@earthlink.net ] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:27 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, 
> etc,) Where?
>  
> On 10/14/2015 10:25 PM, Ted Eckert wrote:
> > 
> > It is fairly common to run into issues where one product causes
> > interference where it shouldn’t.
> > 
> > http://www.compliance-club.com/archive/old_archive/Bananaskins.htm 
> > 
> > 
>  
> Do note that the archive only covers up to 2004.  I've had occasion to cite 
> entry 3.
>  
> I suspect the relative scarcity of reported problems may be ascribed to 
> proactive standards that are revised when the need becomes evident; one 
> reason I got a contract in 2004 -- and why it was extended.
>  
> Those of us who are Amateur Radio operators will have perhaps gotten involved 
> in the myriad issues of new technology versus existing. I filed comments in 
> the FCC's rulemaking on  BPL (UK:PLT/PLC), which agency in the past has acted 
> as if it had gotten orders to ignore some kinds of complaints -- a 
> non-technical issue, eh?
>  
> Some complaints answer the "why margin?" question, if possibly for a 
> different reason than why we sometimes want it.
>  
> About 15 years ago, residents of a New Jersey neighborhood started 
> complaining about hearing a local AM station (really local: 10KW in the 
> middle of the development) on their answering machines and telephones.The odd 
> thing was that this  apparently coincided with its switch from  an "Easy 
> Listening" music format to Korean language evangelism (I suspect a power 
> increase as well).  In any case, when the customer ordered equipment for that 
> neighborhood he could (and IMO
> should) have considered proximity of pole-mounted power and other wiring to a 
> high power RF source not anticipated by standards-writers.
>  
> Cortland Richmond
>  
> -
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> 

Re: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

[Ken Wyatt]

Sounds more like a “ground loop” issue to me. Ideally, shielded rooms should be 
isolated from earth and then single-point grounded to earth using a ground rod. 
It sounds to me as if there may be multiple grounds, possibly via multiple AC 
line circuits. Are the AC line circuits to the monitors different from the 
circuit supplying the chamber, but using the same earth connection to the 
chamber wall? I suspect there’s appreciable current running through the chamber 
walls (common-impedance coupling).

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Sep 28, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Robert Dunkerley  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>  
> Has anyone ever had problems with EMI filters supplying EMC chambers before?
>  
> When mains is applied to the filter for the chamber lights, there is 
> interference seen on the computer monitors outside the chamber. This happens 
> even if the lights are turned off in the chamber, but power supplied to the 
> filter. Looks like the noise is going down the mains cable into the 
> computers/monitors.
>  
> The filter may have degraded, but I though they tend to just go completely?
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Rob.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by 
> Mimecast.
> For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas >
> Mike Cantwell >
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher >
> David Heald >
> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Unexplained High Fallout of Power Supplies

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Brian,

Pat offers some great advice with respect to filter stability and resulting 
ringing. This is not something normally tested using a transient generator, so 
should be examined.

I’d also like to add an observation. During the time I worked for HP/Agilent in 
their scopes division, we also started noticing in the late-1990s that power 
supplies had become the #1 field failure. We pretty much determined (maybe more 
of a guess at that point) that due to the variety of failures across different 
products and vendors, that it was most likely a reliability issue, rather than 
due strictly to over stress. In fact, in the mid-1970s, the NAVY had come to 
the same conclusion and had instituted similar reliability research on power 
supplies. 

Our environmental test engineer, Brian Dahl (the “other other Brian”), who was 
also an expert (a black belt) in reliability, instituted two major changes in 
our power supply vendor selection process:

1. HALT testing of all power supplies (as well as whole products)

2. Life Testing of all power supplies

For those unfamiliar, HALT (highly accelerated life testing) is a combination 
of very fast changing temperature extremes (high to low and visa versa in 1-2 
minutes) in combination with three-axis vibration. He would run HALT on samples 
of power supplies prior to our selecting a final vendor.

Those supplies that passed the HALT were then subjected to long term life 
testing in a large walk-in temperature chamber. He’d take a sample of 10 to 20 
power supplies from each potential vendor, place them under full resistive 
loads and cycle the temperature every 5 to 10 minutes for 1 to 2 months.

After starting this program, field failures of power supplies dropped almost 
off the list.

Here are some references that might be helpful:

http://www.cui.com/catalog/resource/reliability-considerations 


http://www.astrodynetdi.com/pdf/MTBF_and_Power_Supply_Reliability.pdf 


http://www.sre.org/pubs/Mil-Hdbk-338B.pdf 


http://snebulos.mit.edu/projects/reference/MIL-STD/MIL-HDBK-217F-Notice2.pdf 


I might add that Brian was a nominee for EDN's “Test Engineer of the Year” back 
then. If anyone would like to pick his brain, he may be reached at 
brian_d...@keysight.com . I’m copying him on 
this email.

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Sep 16, 2015, at 6:50 AM, Pat Lawler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> - Have there been changes to the design of your system, specifically
> the AC EMI filter?  Increased inductor values, either by design or
> vendor change (filter manufacturer, or type of core used in the
> filter) could cause excessive ringing at the input of the power supply
> at turn-on.
> - Try putting high-voltage scope probes at the input of the power
> supply to see the common and differential mode voltage at turn-on, or
> during line surge testing at 200V levels.  I had one case where the
> filter caused ringing to 2x the applied voltage!
> - Is your equipment installed differently now, either by installation
> or removal of isolation transformers or grounding changes?
> 
> I once had a customer claim that our power supplies no longer met the
> IEC 61000-4-5 line surge requirement, and the equipment was resetting.
> After many heated conference calls, they admitted the equipment was
> actually a redesign, with the addition of a Wi-Fi module.  Not knowing
> what else to try, I asked if they disconnected the Wi-Fi module,
> returning the system to it's previous design configuration.
> It turns out the noise from the line surge test was being picked up by
> the Wi-Fi module and getting conducted into the rest of the system.
> 
> Pat
> 
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Kunde, Brian  wrote:
>> Our company’s Service Department provides monthly field repair reports to
>> our R department who looks for patterns and high fallout of components.
>> Over the last 6 to 12 months, we have noticed a high fallout of Power
>> Supplies in the United States. However, we have not been able to find the
>> reason for the fallout. The power supplies have all shown arc 

[PSES] Review of Signal Hound's new VSG25A vector signal generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted a review of the new $495 VSG25A vector signal generator from 
Signal Hound.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439988/Review--Signal-Hound-VSG25A-vector-signal-generator
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439988/Review--Signal-Hound-VSG25A-vector-signal-generator

If you missed them, here are another couple recent articles:

GaN technology and the potential for EMI 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439839/GaN-technology-and-the-potential-for-EMI

Review of the Aaronia BicoLOG 30100X and HyperLOG 7060 EMI antennas 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439826/Review--The-Aaronia-BicoLOG-30100X-and-HyperLOG-7060-EMI-antennas

Cheers, Ken
___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Some recent articles (GaN and EMI, Aaronia antennas, spherical dipole comb gen)

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

Here are some recent articles on various EMC topics. For the most recent list, 
go to The EMC Blog http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog, 
hosted by EDN.com http://edn.com/.

GaN technology and the potential for EMI 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439839/GaN-technology-and-the-potential-for-EMI

Review: The Aaronia BicoLOG 30100X and HyperLOG 7060 EMI antennas 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439826/Review--The-Aaronia-BicoLOG-30100X-and-HyperLOG-7060-EMI-antennas

Review: The AET USDS spherical harmonic comb generator 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439682/Review--The-AET-USDS-spherical-harmonic-comb-generator

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review of the AET USDS spherical harmonic comb generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, I just posted a review of the Applied Electromagnetic Technology's 
Universal Spherical Dipole Source (USDS) harmonic comb generator. This very 
unique source that may be adjusted for both horizontal and vertical 
polarization and produces harmonics out to 16 GHz.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439682/Review--The-AET-USDS-spherical-harmonic-comb-generator

Cheers, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven

[Ken Wyatt]

I was wondering the same regarding “capacitor hold-up” keeping the magnetron 
working for up to a half sine.

As for the radio astronomy frequency allocations, here is the internationally 
recognized list:

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/radioastro-frequencieslist.htm 
http://www.ukaranet.org.uk/basics/frequency_allocation.htm

Note that there is a band from 2655 to 2690 MHz and another from 2690 to 2700 
MHz.

Microwave ovens operate nominally at 2.45 GHz. However if you actually look at 
the spectrum when the oven is on, you’ll observe it uses much (maybe more?) of 
the 2.4 to 2.5 GHz ISM band. Conceivably, the signals could slop over to the 
nearest astronomy band.

You’ll see this on the last page of my article on wireless interference:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/3/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/3/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization

The real time spectrum analyzer used (Tek RSA306) only had a RT bandwidth of 40 
MHz, so much of the signal lies off the chart”. It’s interesting to note that 
the frozen capture of the instantaneous signal (orange line) clearly shows the 
pulsed 16 ms periodicity of the half-wave rectifier in the magnetron power 
supply.

Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On May 15, 2015, at 4:09 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net wrote:
 
 Interestingly, many news sources quote the oven emission as “1.4 GHz” which 
 is very unlikely for a consumer oven. They didn’t mention if the telescope 
 was being used in the 2.4 GHz band (again unlikely), so I wonder if the 
 telescope was being overloaded by the out-of-band 2.4 GHz oven fundamental, 
 if the oven harmonics were to blame or if the telescope data-processing 
 equipment was actually the victim. One story at least admitted that 
 researchers were suspicious of the signals, as they only were a problem 
 during “working hours.”


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens 
being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave 
ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any 
leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to 
popcorn, etc.?

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization
 In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 
12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short 
“rubber duck” antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer.

The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a 
test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 
0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded.

The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some 
interesting background on the door interlock designs:

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf 
http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf

Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the 
Ottawa area:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/index-eng.php
 
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/index-eng.php

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On May 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote:
 
 My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but
 with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the
 incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven.  I can't do that with
 wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at
 the other end of the house from the oven. Obviously I can bring the wi-fi
 device closer to the base station and at the same time farther from the oven
 and make the problem go away, but that is hardly surprising.
 
 But the point of the news item was that it seemed the interference was tied
 to the oven door opening, which is problematic, at least to me. I don't buy
 the delay thing someone posited - I'm thinking that it is a switch
 activating a relay interrupting power to the magnetron, and that happens
 before any pressure on the oven door gasket has been released.
 
 Ken Javor
 Phone: (256) 650-5261
 
 
 From: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com
 Reply-To: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com
 Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:02:00 +0100
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
 
 This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave
 (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely
 stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt.
 
 I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in use, as much as
 I can.
 
 
 Michael.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
 Sent: 14 May 2015 23:42
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
 
 In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell
 doug...@gmail.com writes:
 
 My question is this.  If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop
 prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is
 responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing
 
 Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011,
 it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to
 look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure
 limits as measured according to IEC 62233.
 --
 OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I
 turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M
 Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
 well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  

[PSES] Neat portable RF generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, I recently published a review of a cute self-contained portable 
touchscreen-controlled RF synthesizer/generator that can tune from 35 to 4400 
MHz. See the review here:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439296/Review--The-Red-Oak-Canyon--RF-Pro-Touch--RF-generator
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439296/Review--The-Red-Oak-Canyon--RF-Pro-Touch--RF-generator

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review of Vectawave 3-watt broadband RF amplifier

[Ken Wyatt]

I recently published a review of the Vectawave VBM2500-3 three-watt broadband 
RF amplifier. I found it quite useful in producing 20 to 50 V/m E-field levels. 
See the article here:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439251/Review--The-Vectawave-VBM2500-3-RF-amplifier
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439251/Review--The-Vectawave-VBM2500-3-RF-amplifier

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Review of Steven Sandler's new book on Power Integrity

[Ken Wyatt]

Unfortunately, this book was already reviewed on EDN.com, so my editor had to 
pull my version. I'll publish it elsewhere and let you all know the link.

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
(Sent from my iPad)

 On Mar 31, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 I just posted a review of Steven Sandler’s recent book, Power Integrity.
 
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439092/Review--Power-Integrity-by-Steven-Sandler
 
 Cheers, Ken
 
 ___
 Kenneth Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
 56 Aspen Dr.
 Woodland Park, CO
 
 Phone: (719) 310-5418
 
 Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
 The EMC Blog (EDN)
 Subscribe to Newsletter
 Connect with me on LinkedIn
 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review of Steven Sandler's new book on Power Integrity

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted a review of Steven Sandler’s recent book, Power Integrity.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439092/Review--Power-Integrity-by-Steven-Sandler
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439092/Review--Power-Integrity-by-Steven-Sandler

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Ferrite Cores on cables and possible reduction

[Ken Wyatt]

It really depends on the impedance of the wire or cable it’s clamped around. If 
the impedance is low, compared to the ferrite Z, then you’ll get some benefit. 
If it’s high, for example, 100 Ohms, then a 100 Ohm ferrite won’t do anything.

A good reference is Würth Electronics, Trilogy of Magnetics, which I reviewed 
some time ago on The EMC Blog:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/emc-emi-rfi-esd/4395583/Review--Trilogy-of-Magnetics-by-W-rth-Electronics
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/emc-emi-rfi-esd/4395583/Review--Trilogy-of-Magnetics-by-W-rth-Electronics

The basic equation is: 

Attenuation = 20log((Zin + Zferrite + Zload)/(Zin + Zload)), where Zin is the 
impedance of the interfering source and Zload is the impedance of the 
interfering load.

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On Mar 3, 2015, at 10:38 AM, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com 
 wrote:
 
 Hello all,
  
 It is generally reported (at least as far as I can remember) that a ferrite 
 bead clamped on a cable
 will provide – typically- only about 3db of improvement as a general rule. I 
 am now in a position
 of looking for the source of that “common knowledge”  .. Does anyone have 
 such a reference?
  
 Best Regards
 Charles Grasso
 Compliance Engineer
 Echostar Communications
 (w) 303-706-5467
 (c) 303-204-2974
 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com mailto:3032042...@vtext.com
 (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com
 (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com
  
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
 well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
 List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Catching up - recent blog postings

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I realized I’ve not posted links to my recent EMC blog postings. Here’s a few 
for your bed time reading:

Review: TPI Version 4 4400 MHz RF synthesizer - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4432496/Review--TPI-Version-4-4400-MHz-RF-synthesizer
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4432496/Review--TPI-Version-4-4400-MHz-RF-synthesizer

Visit to Clemson University’s Automotive Electronics Laboratory - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4433518/Visit-to-Clemson-University-s-Automotive-Electronics-Laboratory
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4433518/Visit-to-Clemson-University-s-Automotive-Electronics-Laboratory

6 GHz spectrum analysis in your hand! - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4434756/6-GHz-spectrum-analysis-in-your-hand-
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4434756/6-GHz-spectrum-analysis-in-your-hand-

A visit to ARRL headquarters - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4434946/A-visit-to-ARRL-headquarters
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4434946/A-visit-to-ARRL-headquarters

Case study: radiated interference to industrial controller - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4435781/Case-study--radiated-interference-to-industrial-controller
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4435781/Case-study--radiated-interference-to-industrial-controller

Review: Rohde  Schwarz HZ-15 near field probes - 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4436204/Review--Rohde---Schwarz-HZ-15-near-field-probes
 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4436204/Review--Rohde---Schwarz-HZ-15-near-field-probes



I’ll post the most recent ones in a few days, or you can go directly to the 
blog at - http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/1/The-EMC-Blog 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/1/The-EMC-Blog

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] RS FSP Spectrum Analyzer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi grace, I agree with Ed. You rally ought to find out specifically why your 
present analyzer is not “good for your purposes”.

If all you’re needing is to perform pre-compliance testing, then most good 
analyzers should work OK. Where most spectrum analyzers have trouble meeting 
CISPR 16 is for low-rate pulsed signals. I guess if you’re characterizing GSM, 
maybe that would be an issue. However, a low-cost “real-time” analyzer like the 
Tektronix RSA306 or Signal Hound BB60C will likely be just the thing for most 
communications protocols, with the Tek unit better suited for the specific 
protocols.

You might want to check out my reviews on both these products on The EMC Blog 
at EDN.com http://edn.com/.

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On Feb 17, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net wrote:
 
 Grace:
  
 I would think that the fastest answer should have been asking your friend 
 “why” regarding his assertion. Was he basing his advice on the FSP model 
 specifically, or on spectrum analyzers in general?
  
 Ed Price
 WB6WSN
 Chula Vista, CA USA
  
 -Original Message-
 From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 1:02 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: [PSES] RS FSP Spectrum Analyzer
  
 Dear Members,
  
 Is anyone familiar with the RS FSP spectrum analyzer
 (http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/en/product/fsp-products_63492-8043.html 
 http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/en/product/fsp-products_63492-8043.html)
 and would like to share comments/experience?
  
 A friend advises me that this is not good for my purpose (taking data for 
 regulatory compliance of wireless devices).  I am looking/searching for 
 justifications to request a new one.
  
 Thank you very much.
  
 Best regards,
 Grace Lin
  
  
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
 well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
 List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] How cops are catching grow ops with AM radios.

[Ken Wyatt]

A interesting use of RFI…

http://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/8224280-How-cops-are-catching-grow-ops-with-AM-radios/
 
http://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/8224280-How-cops-are-catching-grow-ops-with-AM-radios/

Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

[Ken Wyatt]

Henry Ott likes to use a Dremel tool as a wide bandwidth noise source for 
radiated immunity pre-compliance testing!  :-)

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On Feb 3, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com 
 wrote:
 
 It used to be those other power tools were not digitally controlled and would 
 not be considered for emissions but nowadays maybe soon you can control your 
 vacuum cleaner from your smart phone whilst sitting on the couch.
  
 -Dave
  
 From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 10:22 AM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws
  
 Same is true of other power tools, drills, vacuum cleaners, etc.  I believe 
 ‎the thinking is these are only intermittent use.  
 
 
  
  - doug
 
 Douglas Powell
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01  
 From: Bill Stumpf
 Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 8:14 AM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Reply To: Bill Stumpf
 Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws
  
 Based on inquiries I've made to the FCC  IC regarding digitally controlled 
 power tools, the FCC currently exempts these devices from Part 15 technical 
 regulations.  Industry Canada compliance testing should be done to ICES-001 
 requirements.
  
  
 Bill
  
 From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com 
 mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 10:51 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws
  
 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Title 47 Telecommunication Chapter 1 
 Subchapter A Part 15
 15.103 Exempted devices. 
 (c) A digital device used exclusively as industrial, commercial, or medical 
 test equipment.
  
 Sounds like it would be FCC part 15 exempt providing the user stops operating 
 the device upon a finding by the Commission or its representative that the 
 device is causing harmful interference.
  
 Don’t know about Canada yet but they usually follow the US.
  
 -Dave
  
  
 From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com 
 mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 5:12 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws
  
 I am not at all familiar with this category of products so please excuse my 
 ignorance which is an industrial cut-off saw with a 5hp electric motor for 
 cutting steel rods, and such.  
  
 Most of these basic model saws have no high frequency devices and brushless 
 AC motors so they do not generate EMI. However, the more expensive models 
 have Inverters (Frequency Drives) to slow start/stop the motor and act as a 
 break.
  
 We evaluated a saw from a company who says they do not require EMC testing on 
 their saws even when they use the Inverter, as long as they follow the 
 installation instructions from the inverter manufacturer (yea, I just about 
 fell out of my chair). We tested one of these saws and failed CISPR 11 Class 
 A Conducted Emissions by 50db (if was a prototype saw not on the market).  
 How do these people sleep at night?
  
 So here is my question. Does the US and Canada require Emissions testing on 
 Industrial Saws?  Same question for Europe. I assume EN 55011 Class A is 
 mandatory in Europe on such a devices. 
  
 Please confirm (sanity check).
  
 Thanks,
 The Other Brian
  
  
 LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
 information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
 mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
 well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 

Re: [PSES] ESD protection for USB 3.0

[Ken Wyatt]

It's generally best to install transient protection on the data lines. Several 
companies make devices for USB 3.0. I have some info here:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4422551/Protect-Circuits-From-ESD

Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site 
http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/
The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog
Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html
Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt
 On Feb 2, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com 
 wrote:
 
 Hello all,
  
 Does anyone have a paper/info on the problems of (and hopefully the solutions 
 for!) ESD protection 
 on the USB3.0 interface?
  
 Best Regards
 Charles Grasso
 Compliance Engineer
 Echostar Communications
 (w) 303-706-5467
 (c) 303-204-2974
 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com mailto:3032042...@vtext.com
 (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com
 (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com
  
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
 well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html
 List rules:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] [SI-LIST] Re: electronic design related postings on Twitter

[Ken Wyatt]

Ditto what David said. I also send out occasional tweets on EMC product design 
or pre-compliance measurements.

You’ll find me at @emc_guru.
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Oct 10, 2014, at 2:11 AM, David Vye david@ansys.com wrote:

 Sounds good Doug,
 
 I'll follow you. I tweet about simulation and product development for high 
 speed, RF, EMC and electromechanical design @EM_Sim_Biz 
 
 Hopefully people find it a useful way to share info and connect with others 
 in the same business
 
 David
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 9, 2014, at 11:48 PM, Douglas Smith d...@emcesd.com wrote:
 
 Hi Everyone,
 I am going to try sending short tweets on electronic design and
 troubleshooting you may be interested in. If you want to see them, look at:
 @dougcsmith_ee on Twitter. It it proves useful to people I may permanently
 keep doing it.
 
 Just did a test posting.
 
 Doug
 -- University of Oxford Tutor Department for Continuing Education Oxford,
 Oxfordshire, United Kingdom
 -- ___ _ Doug
 Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 60941 = Boulder City, NV 89006-0941 _ / \ / \ _
 TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108/570-6013 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 |
 q-() | o | Email: d...@dsmith.org[1] \ _ / ] \ _ / Web:
 http://www.dsmith.org[2]
 -- 
 
 --- Links ---
  1 mailto:d...@dsmith.org
  2 http://www.dsmith.org
 --
 To unsubscribe from si-list:
 si-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
 
 or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
 http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
 
 For help:
 si-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'help' in the Subject field
 
 
 List forum  is accessible at:
  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
 
 List archives are viewable at: 
   http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
 
 Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
   http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
 
 
 --
 To unsubscribe from si-list:
 si-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
 
 or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
 http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
 
 For help:
 si-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'help' in the Subject field
 
 
 List forum  is accessible at:
   http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list
 
 List archives are viewable at: 
   http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
 
 Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
   http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
 
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] 6 GHz hand held spectrum analyzer reviewed

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, 

I just reviewed the new Thurlby Thandar 6 GHz hand held spectrum analyzer. Nice!

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4434756/6-GHz-spectrum-analysis-in-your-hand-

Cheers, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Test and Calibration Labs

[Ken Wyatt]

I know what you mean. I recommend only test labs I've personally visited or 
have worked with in the past. You also won't likely go wrong by recommending 
the large chains, but there are exceptions, I'm sure. Probably the best bet 
is to ask around...maybe asking for specifics here, or in one of the LinkedIn 
groups. Also, each lab may offer expertise in certain areas, but not all. For 
example, not all are able to test intentional radiators. Some may be better at 
dealing with various country's submittal processes, some don't do MIL-STD, etc.

The test labs that regularly attend the IEEE EMC symposia are probably worth 
considering.

Here are a few I can recommend. Elite Engineering in Chicago, CKC (various 
locations), Northwest EMC, EMC Integrity in Colorado. I just had this same 
conversation with a colleague in the Bay Area recently. He recommended Elliott, 
TUV, And UL. In the Portland area, I was pretty impressed with a fairly new 
lab, ElectroMagnetic Investigations, in Hillsboro. I believe MET Labs (various 
locations) are also well thought of. I'm sure there are others I've not aware 
of, however. I suspect others will chime in with recommendations.

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
(Sent from my iPad)

 On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 ‎All,
 
 In recent weeks I have been searching for EMC and Calibration labs in areas 
 of the country where I am not so familiar with who is who.   My clients often 
 want something nearby.  Generally they already know which safety agency they 
 want.  
 
 I have used the directories published by ITEM and ‎InCompliance and others.   
 But it occurs to me that I am recommending labs without any point of 
 reference. Unless they are part of a national organization, I feel I really 
 don't know these folks well enough to make a reference.   Also, I full well 
 know that many of these directories do not have complete listings, each one 
 seems to have some omissions of important labs. 
 
 I would be interested to hear from others on this forum who have had a 
 similar experiences, about  which directories they got the best results and 
 how you dealt with these concerns in general.  
 
 
 
 Thanks, - doug
 
 Douglas Powell
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01  
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Chamber - Fire sprinkler filters

[Ken Wyatt]

Yeah, try speaking with a chamber installer or manufacturer. We had some sort 
of thick fire retardant coating installed over our PVC pipes, which only became 
charged once the sensor indicated a fire.

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote:

 Filter a pipe?
 
 Why not use PVC pipe through a waveguide-beyond cutoff metal pipe?  And a 
 two- stage system that doesn’t charge the sprinkler system with water until a 
 sensor indicates a problem.
 
 That is standard design.
 
 Ken Javor
 Phone: (256) 650-5261
 
 
 From: Whalen Stephen-ESW018 stephen.wha...@motorolasolutions.com
 Reply-To: Whalen Stephen-ESW018 stephen.wha...@motorolasolutions.com
 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:22:11 +
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Conversation: Chamber - Fire sprinkler filters
 Subject: [PSES] Chamber - Fire sprinkler filters
 
 Hello Experts,
 Does anyone know of UL approved fire sprinkler RF filters? 
 The filters are to allow fire sprinkler pipes to enter a RF shielded chamber 
 while keeping out unwanted RF signals.
  
 Regards,
 Stephen C. Whalen
 Compliance Engineer/Manager
 
 -
 
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org 
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher  j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com 
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review of the Signal Hound BB60C real time spectrum analyzer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just finished a two-part review of the new Signal Hound BB60C real time 6 GHz 
spectrum analyzer.

Part 1: 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4432091/Review--Signal-Hound-BB60C-real-time-6-GHz-spectrum-analyzer

Part 2: 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4432159/1/Review--Signal-Hound-BB60C-real-time-6-GHz-spectrum-analyzer---Part-2

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] agilent vs keysight

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Brian,

As an outsider to HP/Agilent now, I believe the reorganization actually makes a 
lot of sense in splitting off the medical and chemical analysis divisions from 
the test  measurement divisions. This should allow both companies to better 
focus more on their customers needs.

There is always an ongoing debate within the company as to when it makes sense 
to discontinue products or product lines. That's just life and certainly a 
delicate balancing act not taken lightly. Well, except for the knee-jerk 
decision to give the EMC market a swift kick in the behind - and then years 
later to re-establish the product line and try to gain market share and 
customer trust once again (my opinion). I suspect lessons were learned.

As someone else mentioned previously, Agilent and Keysight both hold the 
original HP Way values for the most part.

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Jul 2, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote:

 Good People,
 
 Am looking at this spin-off with some small level of concern. Other than the 
 agilent and keysight web sites, any information available on resultant 
 products' end-of-life and/or termination of support for the various product 
 lines? The press releases seem to indicate Keysite will return to the 
 original HP T/E market; and Agilent will be medical equipment.
 
 When I told this to my four audio and RF analyzers, they seemed rather upset 
 about yet another re-org, so am feeding them doses of spectrally pure 60Hz 
 power until signs of electrical depression mitigated. (the boss will probably 
 have me committed for this one)
 
 Thanks,
 Brian
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review: Keith Armstrong's EMC Design Techniques

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All, 

I just reviewed Keith Armstrong's wonderfully practical book, EMC Design 
Techniques for Electronic Engineers. While light on really deep theory, he 
provides just the right amount for good understanding sufficient to understand 
how to design products for EMC compliance. Highly recommended.

By the way, Keith will be presenting as part of our EMC Consultants Toolkit 
during the Friday morning workshops at the IEEE EMC Symposium.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4430364/Review--EMC-Design-Techniques---Armstrong

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] EN and ISO standards

[Ken Wyatt]

How about this obvious privacy site I blogged about a couple years ago? They’re 
still up and operating, but I sure wouldn’t want to give them my credit card!

What’s surprising is that I’ve passed this on to all the major standards 
organizations WW, as well as documenting this with the U.S. State Dept., and I 
guess there’s no real easy way to shut them down.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4378139/Pirated-Standards--Could-It-Be-True-

That Estonia deal is probably the best legitimate source.

Cheers, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On May 15, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Mike Sherman - Original Message - 
msherma...@comcast.net wrote:

 Not aware of any price breaks through IEEE.
 Best pricing I've found is through Estonia:
 http://www.evs.ee/shop
 
 Mike Sherman
 Graco Inc.
 
 From: Dave Nyffenegger dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:51:53 AM
 Subject: [PSES] EN and ISO standards
 
 Anyone know if we can get any breaks on purchasing EN or ISO standards 
 through IEEE?
 
 -Dave
 
 David P. Nyffenegger, PMP, SM-IEEE
 Product Development Manager
 Bell and Howell
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Fwd: iPad charger teardown: inside Apple's charger and a risky phony

[Ken Wyatt]

  Hi All, iI found this very interesting analysis of an Apple versus 
 counterfeit iiPad power supply.


http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html?m=1

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
(Sent from my iPad)


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Review: TTi PSA2702T spectrum analyzer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted a short review of the new PSA2702T hand held spectrum analyzer 
from Thurlby Thandar.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4428816/Review--TTi-PSA2702T-handheld-spectrum-analyzer

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Harmonic analyzer tool

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Gert,

Yes, you did give me something to do - as if I'm not already busy enough?  :-)

Your scheme sounds like an intriguing addition to the simplified spreadsheet, 
however, I have a looming deadline and need to finish the final draft of my 
book first before launching off on a complex spreadsheet design. Perhaps there 
are some in this group who can try developing this idea in the meantime?

Thanks very much for your suggestion!

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:19 AM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote:

 Hi Ken,
 
 I do not know if digital multipliers
 an dividers can divide by more complex schemes than N/R !
 But this would be a nice enhancement to identify any
 possibilities.
 However, by specifying both N and R to range from 1-10
 you get 100 possible results (with some duplicates), so
 the tool will lose usefulness for larger values of N and R.
 I think that a matrix will give best results, together with
 a 2 -dimensional lookup function comparing the results
 in the matrix with a large array of common crystal frequencies?
 A second array with the present crystal frequencies to be put in (4-5) ?
 
 Note that a offending crystal can easily be identified with
 a receiver using SSB demodulation (and a speaker) and a cold spray
 Upon cooling the offending crystal oscillator the drift
 will be heard very clearly.
 
 
 
 Hey, now I got you something to do ;)))
 
 Regards,
 
 Ing.  Gert Gremmen, BSc
 
 
 
 g.grem...@cetest.nl
 www.cetest.nl
 
 Kiotoweg 363
 3047 BG Rotterdam
 T 31(0)104152426
 F 31(0)104154953
 
  Before printing, think about the environment. 
 
 
 Van: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] 
 Verzonden: Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:18 PM
 Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
 Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Harmonic analyzer tool
 
 Hi Gert, that's a good idea. Is the equation always N/R? If so, it might be 
 easiest to create a second spreadsheet with a calculated column of divisors 
 (=N/R). Thanks for the idea.
 
 Cheers, Ken
 ___
 Kenneth Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC
 56 Aspen Dr.
 Woodland Park, CO
 
 Phone: (719) 310-5418
 
 Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
 The EMC Blog (EDN)
 Subscribe to Newsletter
 Connect with me on LinkedIn
 
 On Feb 20, 2014, at 2:03 AM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
 g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote:
 
 
 Hi Ken,
 
 Nice tool, but i am missing something.
 More an more often microprocessors can multiply
 external oscillators with an arbitrary number for internal operation,
 and sometimes even with N/R where N and R are
 arbitrary integers. Have you thought of that in your
 sheet ?
 May I invite you to enhancing your sheet with N and R ???
 
 Regards,
 
 Ing.  Gert Gremmen, BSc
 
 
 Van: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] 
 Verzonden: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:53 AM
 Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Onderwerp: [PSES] Harmonic analyzer tool
 
 Hi All,
 
 I just posted details on a simple crystal oscillator harmonic analyzer tool:
 
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4428570/Harmonic-analyzer-tool
 
 The blog posting has a link to download the spreadsheet.
 
 Cheers, Ken
 ___
 Kenneth Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC
 56 Aspen Dr.
 Woodland Park, CO
 
 Phone: (719) 310-5418
 
 Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
 The EMC Blog (EDN)
 Subscribe to Newsletter
 Connect with me on LinkedIn
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com 
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product

[PSES] Harmonic analyzer tool

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted details on a simple crystal oscillator harmonic analyzer tool:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4428570/Harmonic-analyzer-tool

The blog posting has a link to download the spreadsheet.

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Mobile Compliance

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Doug,

I have no issues yet with the various cloud services, but I do maintain backup 
folders on a RAID drive. By avoiding keeping working files on my various mobile 
devices (plus the easy to use 'remote wipe feature) if a device becomes lost 
or stolen, there's really little harm done.

For current client jobs, I place a working folder on DropBox. Once the job is 
complete (usually 2-4 days), I'll archive on the RAID drive.

As for time-keeping, invoicing and estimating jobs, I'd recommend a commercial 
product, rather than a spreadsheet. I use Billings Pro, with all data backed up 
on their cloud service. This allows me to access client records, update 
billable hours, and send invoices from any of my mobile devices. The data is 
automatically updated to all devices within a few seconds. The cost for the 
cloud-backup service is $10/mo. I'm sure there are equivalent packages for any 
OS.

As for compliance tools, you have some great ideas. There are many that can be 
developed using a spreadsheet. For example, a simple harmonic calculator is a 
real time saver for me when assessing a series of NB harmonics. A couple years 
ago, I blogged on several EE-related tools:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4390336/Mobile-EE-Apps-for-iPhone-and-iPad

I also reviewed useful PC board viewers:

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4414595/Free-PC-board-viewers

If you check my web site, you'll find another useful EMC tool...

If you're serious about independent consulting, you should make plans to attend 
the 2014 EMC Symposium in Raleigh, NC, this coming August. I'll be part of a 
team teaching the EMC Consultant's Toolkit workshop, which has been scheduled 
for Friday morning, August 8th.

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote:

 ‎All,
 
 In addition to managing email and calendar, I have taken steps to actively 
 use my smartphone while doing compliance work.  Theoretically this could 
 include a number of ideas for Product Safety and EMC. I believe many folks 
 now use memory cards to store standards in PDF form for handy access, but I'm 
 now thinking about doing a little more than that.
 
 For example, I am doing some consulting and I have saved an XLS spreadsheet 
 in my dropbox folders for time tracking, quoting  and few other other 
 administrative tasks. I can access these equally from my notebook computer 
 and my smartphone. One advantage of the smartphone is its always running and 
 I don't have wake up my notebook computer to update some bit of information. 
 I have an HDMI Port for presentations and video. I also have the ability to 
 print forms over WiFi from my smartphone.  With 32GB of memory, there's 
 plenty of room to store files (I know, security is a concern and I am 
 constantly aware of theft issues).  
 
 I have considered doing some compliance engineering tools which can be run as 
 a spreadsheet on a mobile device.  ‎Some basic examples might include lookup 
 tables, quantity conversions, field strength conversions, interpolate antenna 
 distances, altitude corrections, wire gauge, and spacings determination. 
 ‎ 
 Is this something compliance professionals are doing now or have considered 
 for the future?  ‎And are smartphones, notebooks, tablets or possibly thumb 
 drives preferred?
 
 Please, no discussion about brand loyalty (Apple, Android, BlackBerry, 
 Samsung, etc.).
 
 Thanks, - doug
 
 Douglas Powell
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01  
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Re: [PSES] 85460A RF Filter Section ??

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Brian,

Group, please correct my understanding if my recollection is wrong...

The filter section is a preselector, primarily designed to narrow the 
bandwidth of the spectrum analyzer to try to minimize adjacent signal overload 
when using the system at open area test sites. As for the CE testing, it's 
generally a good idea to use an external high pass filter to minimize the large 
line frequency fundamental and harmonics. Depending on the standard you're 
using, the cutoff frequency should be maybe 8 kHz, or so, for MIL testing and 
could be higher for commercial testing.

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Jan 22, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com wrote:

 Dear Experts,
 
 I have an HP 8546A EMI Receiver System which is made up of an 85462A Receiver 
 RF Section and an 85460A RF Filter Section.
 
 The Receiver Section can be used by itself for Pre-Compliance testing, but 
 what does the RF Filter Section do? I have looked through the provided 
 manuals and done a Google Search without finding a good description of its 
 functions.
 
 I have a customer who is telling me my Line Conducted Emissions test results 
 are incorrect because we do not use a High Pass Filter on our receiver 
 input.  I thought one of the functions of the 85460A RF Filter Section was to 
 filter out bands outside what is being observed. Am I wrong?
 
 This receiver also displays a warning if there are High Adjacent Signals. 
 When we get this warning we increase the input attenuation and do a linearity 
 check on all signals recorded.
 
 In short I'm asking two questions; what does the RF Filter Section do and do 
 I need to obtain a high pass filter or does my receiver and test methods 
 negate the need?
 
 Thanks to all.
 The Other Brian
 
 
 
 
 LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
 information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
 mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Regulatory Compliance program

[Ken Wyatt]

Don't forget copies of the pertinent standards...
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Jan 20, 2014, at 3:22 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote:

 1. Back issues of PSES monthly newsletter - in particular, articles by Rich 
 Nute.
 2. Presentations and papers from last 10 years of the ISPCE.
 3. Articles and stuff found on web sites from MET, Nemko, TUVR, UL, etc.
 4. Section General of your UL files.
 5. LinkedIn stuff and the many regulatory/compliance blogs.
 6. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Lewis Carrol.
 
 Program information is based on each corporation's internal 'theory' of 
 regulatory compliance. And am somewhat certain that a large company such as 
 TI has many megs of formal process stuff per ISO9001 program - go see your 
 friendly compliance manager/senior engineer.
 
 Brian
 
 From: Gartman, W. Richard [mailto:rgart...@ti.com] 
 Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 12:49 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: [PSES] Regulatory Compliance program
 
 PSES community,
 
 I am looking for white papers or presentations [that can be shared] related 
 to regulatory compliance process for consumer electronics. I am working on 
 doing some bench-marking on what is necessary for a model regulatory 
 compliance program. I am looking for more program information than product or 
 country specific information.  All information is useful.
 
 Thank you in advance for your contributions.
 Regards
 W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP
 Product Stewardship Manager
 Texas Instruments, Education Technology
 13532 N Central Expressway, Dallas, TX 75243
 1 Phone: 214-567-7927P Email: rgart...@ti.com
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] December EMC Blogs

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

Here's an update on a couple blog postings from this past December.

EMC questions answered (Part 4) - Several questions on EMC measurements and 
product design were asked during my recent webinar hosted by Interference 
Technology Magazine and sponsored by Rohde  Schwarz. Here they are with 
answers.

Detecting ESD events - If you find your product exhibits random upsets, such as 
loss of data or unusual circuit resets, it could very well be caused by ESD. 
This article describes several methods to detect these events.

Best wishes for the new year, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] November EMC Blogs

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

Here's an update on a couple blog postings from this past November. It’s all 
about small RF generators...

“Review: inexpensive RF generator” - During one of my presentations on low-cost 
EMC troubleshooting tools at the IEEE EMC Symposium last August, one of the 
attendees, Doug Miller, mentioned a small PC-controllable RF generator for just 
$190. Of course, I had to buy one and try it out!

“Review: Windfreak Technologies SynthNV RF generator (Part 1) - For months, 
I’ve been seeking a small RF generator that could replace the 40-pound monster 
I keep under my workbench. What really caught my eye initially was that the 
generator could AM modulate the RF output - perfect for radiated immunity 
pre-compliance testing!

Best wishes for the new year, Ken
___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Puzzle

[Ken Wyatt]

Great ideas from Doug. It does sound like energy is coupling onto one, or more, 
cables. Have you used a current probe to verify which, if any, have HF 
currents? If you're lacking this probe, one may be easily made with a clamp-on 
ferrite choke. See my article here:

http://www.interferencetechnology.com/the-hf-current-probe-theory-and-application/

I might just add that I've seen more than one power supply be the root cause 
and casting doubt on perfectly, operating circuitry. Have you tested just the 
power supply alone (with a load)? I like Doug's idea of powering the box from a 
battery.

As Ott says...divide and conquer. Start removing things from the total system 
until you find a change.

Maybe you could also try shortening the power cable so it's way less than 1/4 
or 1/2 wavelength of 200 MHz.

Doesn't Ethernet generally use a 25 MHz clock for the PHY? Do the clock lines 
cross a gap in the PC board? Does the Ethernet connector have the recommended 
common-mode chokes built in? Are what you're seeing a family of 25 MHz 
harmonics with a resonance near 200?

Keep us posted! I'll be curious to know the final solution.

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418 / Toll Free: (877) 443-9275

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (EDN)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Dec 7, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sorry to be so verbose, there is one other idea.
 
 If you have placed ferrite on the cable , try moving it up and down the 
 length of the cable. Using the idea of an antenna, it is possible you have 
 place the ferrite in an ineffective point. A null in the wavelength.  
 
 -doug
 
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
 From: doug...@gmail.com
 Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2013 11:10 AM
 To: lfresea...@aol.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Puzzle
 
 Derek,
 
 Have you stopped all data clocks?  This may tell you is the noise is from an 
 external source.
 
 If you have done this and still have a high RE, I would suggest your entire 
 setup has become a 1/4 stub antenna for something external It is apparently 
 optimized for near 200 MHz or some multiple/submultiple of another frequency. 
  You can try to de-tune this circuit and suppression tools are not always the 
 answer.
 
 It is possible for all the wires from the ground plane up to the table top to 
 be part of this antenna. Ferrite sleeves will simply disappear since in this 
 possible scenario. 
 
 The full RF circuit is the noise source, transmitted up the cable, radiated 
 from the unintentional antenna, to the receive antenna, down that coax, to 
 the receiver 50 Ohm terminator and back along common ground to the noise 
 source (where ever that might be).  Anything you can do to break into that 
 circuit will give you a clue as to the location of the noise source and 
 subsequently how to deal with it.
 
 If possible, try a battery box to power the device, located on top of the 
 table on short leads. If you eliminate the 200 MHZ, it's the power source.  
 If not you have succeeded in eliminating the power supply from concern.
 
 Try separating power and data cables into separate  bundles and play with the 
 separation between them. Remember, it may not solve the problem but at this 
 point you simply want some kind of a response. Then you'll know if you are in 
 the right area.
 
 Are the cables from the product simply routed over top of the ground plane? 
 If possible take them directly below ground plane or at least cover them with 
 ground bonded foil to a point directly below the table. By the way make 
 certain you are using heavy restaurant grade foil or at least a few layers.
 
 Put the analyzer in the shield room or at least a VGA monitor so you can see 
 the response, and then walk around. See where you can stand to cause a nice 
 dip in the emissions, think about wavelengths, reflections and V/H 
 polarization.   Can you notice any affect any of these parameters?
 
 Try touching the box, connector housings or cables with your hand. Keep in 
 mind you are an additional element on the RF Circuit. Which way do the 
 emissions go, up or down? Ask yourself why you get the responses you get when 
 you change the shape and impedance match of the antenna with your whole 
 body.
 
 Finally, once you identify the source, do something to return the noise in a 
 tight loop back to the source instead of allowing it to take the full circuit 
 through the air.  
 
 My paraphrase of Henry Ott is, EMC is not black magic, it is the scientific 
 study of all the circuits the design engineer neglected to put on the 
 schematic.   This thought has helped me over the years to understand the 
 parasitics and nuance of many products.  
 
 , - doug
 
 Douglas Powell
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
 
 
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the 

Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer

[Ken Wyatt]

Great advice Cortland!

I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn regarding how best to deal 
with your manager when it comes to these issues, without getting fired. 
Interesting reading…

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20131119031719-7668018-speaking-up-without-getting-fired?trk=mta-lnk

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:49 AM, CR k...@earthlink.net wrote:

 I suspect many of us came into EMC unconventionally. I certainly did. I 
 walked into a job in EMC at Wang Labs after retiring from an Army career that 
 had me in the Signal Corps and Transportation Corps in communications and 
 repairing Avionics (also supervising and instructing). I had been playing 
 with electronics since age 12, when I used a TV focus coil to build in my 
 bedroom what some might call a rail-gun. 
 
 On retiring from the Army I was a single parent with a pension that only paid 
 the rent. I wanted work as an instructor, but without a degree, the only 
 people who made an an offer paid less than I'd gotten on Active Duty. 
 Luckily, my my brother passed a copy of my resume' to his neighbor, who 
 worked for a large computer firm now defunct, Wang Labs. I was able to show 
 them I knew how to use the equipment and already had a high enogh security 
 clearance for Tempest work, so I was in.
 
 Having come up through the lab, I look for not merely theory, but a feel for 
 systems and problems. A couple of my later employers had me interviewing job 
 applicants and I got an (undeserved, IMO) reputation for being a difficult 
 interviewer, handing candidates a ferrite bead, for example, and asking, 
 What is this? What does it do? and How? or something like a PRD-219 and 
 asking, What is this and how is it used? (I own a couple.)
 
 Most of the scrUwups I've seen were the result of engineers or managers (not 
 just in EMC):
 1) Ignoring (or ignorance of) basic principles of EMC design; for example, as 
 Mother used to say (not really) Cortland! Put that electron back before he 
 yells for his Dad!
 2) Neglecting to get all parties to producing a product to ATTEND design 
 reviews and point out what they can and can't do given the design and desired 
 results.
 3) Ignoring (again BASIC) principles of shielding and grounding even in 
 testing (all too common).
 4) Not talking directly to engineers and techs on projects outside their own 
 areas of expertise. Everything matters. Even firmware.
 5) Not looking at systems a whole; test setups, platform or user 
 configurations, regulations and standard – everything that concerns emissions 
 and susceptibility in use. It took time and effort (and one actual RFI 
 complaint) to convince a manufacturer of telco equipment that if it was on or 
 near a residential property it had to meet FCC Class B.
 It has been the rare employer whose management was on board with EMC problem 
 prevention; perhaps surprisingly, one of my better ones was Tandy, whose 
 first venture into the IBM compatible computer market in the late 1980's was 
 not only yanked off the market by the FCC, but incurred a sizable fine for 
 not having been submitted for testing (it failed). That'll motivate you! It 
 did get a me a job there.
 
 IMO, an organization needs both educated engineers and those who can hold 
 people to basic principles; if you do all the simple things right, you will 
 usually have done the complex ones too. WRT the EMC Cop role, I prefer the 
 missionary position (heh).  Really, convert them, don't yell at them. An 
 Outside Expert many of us, at least in the US, know, was called in to look at 
 a PWB design and his first words to the CAD layout guy were Your board is a 
 piece of sh*t! How not to influence people, etc. They did listen to my 
 simpler and less confrontational advice thereafter. 
 
 I'd have LOVED to get a job applicant who could show what's wrong, what's 
 right, and explain why in plain English; colleagues not in EMC will often 
 want simple rules: X mils of clearance and Y mils of prepreg; Z mils of 
 copper between bypass caps and devices etc. Sometimes it's worthwhile to make 
 design rules simple just to get them followed... but one must know what the 
 rules do, and why, and be able to teach those who must follow them .
 
 I was offered a job at DSC Communications (later Alcatel USA) as a test 
 engineer, and when I arrived, they gave me the choice of that or design. That 
 was no choice at all; I chose design for, as I answered when asked why, test 
 engineers have to fix the same problems over and over, but design engineers 
 can stop them from happening, By dint of constant, friendly and informal 
 oversight (I asked for and got read-only access to the schematics and layout 
 of every project from my own terminal) and collaboration with designers in 
 every group, I did that. I even got the mechanical engineers on board. (That 
 took

Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Macy (and others trying to read this article),

Sorry, I guess that link was an internal one to LinkedIn (you may have had to 
be signed in to read?).

Try this:

Connect to the author’s LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jtodonnell

Then click on “Follow”. Her article will be right at the top of her full 
profile.

Note: you may have to already have a profile on LinkedIn before you can 
follow/read.

I tried clicking on her other web sites, but couldn’t find the same article…

Sorry about that, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 20, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Macy m...@basicisp.net wrote:

 I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn ...
 
 high praise indeed!  ;)
 
 
 Thanks for posting the URL, but for me LinkedIn kept a blank screen for over 
 four minutes while monopolizing my system, so I had to give up. Your article 
 is text, right? ;)
 
 
 
 
 --- k...@emc-seminars.com wrote:
 
 From: Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:40:37 -0700
 
 Great advice Cortland!
 
 I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn regarding how best to deal 
 with your manager when it comes to these issues, without getting fired. 
 Interesting reading…
 
 http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20131119031719-7668018-speaking-up-without-getting-fired?trk=mta-lnk


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer

[Ken Wyatt]

I also hired my replacement from MST after I retired”.

Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org wrote:

 
 
 
 EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges
 
 Electromagnetic Compatibility Laboratory
 
 The Missouri ST Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Laboratory supports EMC 
 research and education projects with a goal of developing the knowledge base, 
 tools and people necessary to solve today's EMC problems and address the EMC 
 problems of the future.
 
 We hired at least one EMC engineer from UM.
 
 
 Rich
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Egide,

I also echo what the others have suggested. I started my career as a microwave 
design engineer, then switched companies after a couple years and did DC-Dc 
power supplies, then after five years, switched to RF design. All this was in 
the aerospace world. I finally got my foot in the door at Hewlett-Packard as an 
EMC engineer (after both my predecessors got fired - that’s another story) and 
spent the rest of my career at HP/Agilent, where I really learned the EMC 
skills.

You need to stand out among other candidates. You can do this by writing (I 
first started writing magazine articles while in college), blogging (the newer 
way to be published), networking and learning (see below).

Start networking:

1. build your network on LinkedIn (I wouldn’t get crazy and start inviting all 
the friends you know…keep it to just engineers and managers - people who can 
help you with your career)
2. in your immediate community
3. join the IEEE and the EMC Society
4. participate in your local EMCS chapter
5. participate in the annual International Symposium on EMC (will be in Raleigh 
this year). Take the Monday “EMC Fundamentals” workshop. Once you get a little 
experience, then sign up for the EMC University” track there.

Then start learning:

1. absorb the topics on this forum
2. register on the InCompliance and Interference Technologies websites. You 
will start receiving webinar training notices and info on other training 
opportunities
3. Google search out prominent EMC trainers. Their web sites will have good info
4. Check the Missouri Institute of Technology and Clemson University web sites 
for their EMC programs. They both have plenty of good technical and design info
5. Buy Henry Ott’s book on EMC Engineering and devour it. There are also many 
other good reference books, but that’s the one I’d start with.
6. Participate in some of the EMC-related LinkedIn groups, such as “EMC 
Experts”.
7. Sign up for some EMC seminars. If you speak to the trainers, I bet they’d 
give you a discount if they knew you were “self paying” and/or just out of 
college and looking to get into the field.

Because some product designers feel EMC compliance is an “undesirable” job that 
just gets in the way of their creative avenues, you may get your foot in the 
door with less experience, IF you have some self-training under your belt. It 
also helps a great deal if you can find an engineer or manager that will serve 
as a mentor and at least help you get a start. If you can get in the door as an 
engineer and get some experience...then eventually make it known you’d like to 
get into product compliance/EMC, you may find little resistance!

I’m probably missing a lot of other things, but I’ll let the group here fill in 
the gaps.

Good luck, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 18, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com wrote:

 Hello EMC Experts,
  
 Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys 
 who have been in this industry for a long time.
 EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least 
 not at the University I just graduated from.
 After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated 
 by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life.
  
 However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC 
 Engineers, they want several years of experience.
 As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this 
 career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position 
 first to gain an experience in the industry?  Your responses will be highly 
 appreciated.
  
 Regards,
  
 Egide
  
 From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] 
 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
  
 I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC 
 Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. 
 
 Here is a link to the job opening: 
 
 https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518
  
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org

Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer

[Ken Wyatt]

Ed brings up some important advice. As an EMC (or compliance or product 
regulations) engineer, you’ll need to strike a balance between meeting the 
letter of the law (with margin) versus the business needs of your company. 
While you can’t break the law, you may find you’ll often need to balance what 
you can achieve EMC-wise with product cost and schedule. For example, with 
radiated emissions (generally the toughest thing to meet), I would try to 
achieve at least a 6 dB margin below the limit across all frequencies. This 
would account for small test sample size and production differences in 
resulting emissions. Sometimes the right answer might be only a three dB 
margin. I would certainly not accept zero dB margin, however. You’ll need to 
explain to management about production variances, etc. For high production 
runs, you may even consider running audit tests to ensure current products are 
still meeting the limit. The better EMC engineers will carefully weigh the 
legal requirements with the business needs and avoid being the “EMC Cop” - a 
good way to end your career before it starts.

Cheers, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net wrote:

 All great advice from Bob Macy, but I can't help thinking of the times I had 
 a Program Manager say plaintively something to the effect of I don't care 
 what you have to do, but get me under the limit. I don't care how much under 
 the limit, just under it. Even 0 dB under the limit, I can argue that, I can 
 work with that, Yeah, even 0 dB is good for me!
 
 Regarding Bob's advice on Learning and Teaching, my last 30 years were spent 
 as an in-house EMC expert doing qualification testing. I always insisted that 
 a program engineer shepherd the product through my testing, so I usually got 
 one of the more junior engineers. Over the course of maybe a week or two, 
 through the easy passes and the iterative fixes, that engineer got a 
 continuous EMC fundamentals course (with the most practical hands-on 
 possible). I loved doing this for two reasons; first, those junior engineers 
 were usually fresh out of school, were bright and soaked up what I had to 
 say. And second, explaining why a particular signal leaked, or why some 
 shield didn't shield, made me constantly think about what I was doing and why 
 I really did things that way. Because, every so often, one of those newbies 
 made me improve my technique and clarify my own understanding.
 
 A lot of those newbies moved on to other companies, but the ones who stayed 
 moved up in the company, and after a while, most every one of our engineering 
 PM's had sat through my EMC course. It's a long haul, but it was well worth 
 it. 
 
 Ed Price
 WB6WSN
 Chula Vista, CA USA
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] 
 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:13 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
 
 Not sure what exactly you want to specialize in, inside EMC.
 
 However here is my advice:
 1. KNOW EVERY RULE
 2. CHANGE MINDSET
 3. MAKE CONTACTS
 and these two are REALLY important:
 4. BECOME A TEACHER
 5. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT = become a Hands On Expert
 
 KNOW EVERY RULE! To me, an EMC Engineer is a walking encyclopedia resource. 
 Knows applicable rules and testing requirements. Knows every applicable NRTL 
 [multiple ones] along with prices/estimation of ANY compliance testing [and 
 TIME to test] For example an EMC Engineer will know the answer to the 
 question, What do we need in order to get such and such product sold in ?? 
 Knows the labs to go to, how much to budget for testing cost, how much time, 
 and how many number of units for testing. Will partner with Safety, because 
 UL type labs destroy stuff. 
 
 CHANGE MINDSET! Think in terms of 'executive' and NOT 'engineer' Do NOT be a 
 'fireman'. Be pre-emptive! KNOW every product your firm IS developing and 
 probably WILL be developing. Always 'nose around' because EMC is usually, and 
 catastrophically, left to the end of the Product Development cycle. You NEVER 
 want to face the demand, We're ready to go to Production, so fix it, but 
 don't change anything! Plan, plan, plan! Make certain there are enough 
 representative samples. Product managers usually assume the units made for 
 'checking' Production will suffice NOT TRUE! Allocate units for TEST and SAVE 
 them, store them [if volume of production allows] To be effective here one 
 must be equally comfortable with Marketing, Manufacturing, Engineering, AND 
 Financial Depts. Same level of respect as Legal, because compliance is a 
 'legal' issue. Set parameters. For example Sony REQUIRES 8dB margin at the 
 Test Lab! Not as easy as it sounds. HP used to set 6 dB [sigh, those were the 
 days]
 
 MAKE CONTACTS! You will need access to resources, services

Re: [PSES] Inexpensive RF generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just discovered another company that makes similar RF generators - Wind Freak 
Technologies (http://www.windfreaktech.com). They offer two models, one similar 
to the reviewed product above and one deluxe model that includes AM and pulse 
modulation. I'll try to get my hands on these models for review purposes and 
report back. One thing that struck me was the much improved user interface, 
based on National Instruments' LabView.

While the price for the deluxe model is considerably higher ($599), the fact it 
offers AM modulation (up to 5 kHz and 100%) should be attractive for those 
wishing to perform radiated immunity pre-compliance testing.

Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418

On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:19 AM, don_borow...@selinc.com wrote:

 Probably the easiest way to add amplitude modulation would be to use a couple 
 of low capacitance (small signal) diodes -- one in series with the output, 
 and a second one following the first one, shunted to ground. A DC return to 
 ground at the output of the signal generator is needed. The signal generator 
 may already have such a DC return. If not, add a DC return via a choke (or 
 even a resistor, about 500 ohms). 
 
 The two diodes are wired in series (cathode to anode connection). Connect the 
 cathode of one diode to the RF output of the signal generator. The anode of 
 the other diode goes to ground. Feed the audio signal into the junction of 
 the two diodes via a resistor, 500 ohms or larger. A choke could be added if 
 desired to reduce RF loss a bit.  Also from this same point, pull off the 
 modulated RF output through a capacitor (to decouple the audio). Feed enough 
 audio (bipolar voltage) to get 10 to 20 mA of current through the diodes on 
 the peaks. 
 
 The resulting modulation will not be pretty. It will be more like square wave 
 modulation. The modulation depth will be very close to 100%. Harmonics of the 
 RF may rise somewhat. But since we want to do radiated immunity testing, a 
 dirty signal is not necessarily a bad thing. 
 
 Side note: If you are fortunate enough to have some PIN diodes laying around, 
 use them. You will get more linear modulation and lower RF harmonic 
 generation. 
 
 Donald Borowski 
 Senior EMC Compliance Engineer 
 Schweitzer Engineering Labs 
 Pullman, WA, USA 
 
 
 
 From:Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com 
 To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
 Date:11/04/2013 07:48 AM 
 Subject:Re: [PSES] Inexpensive RF generator 
 
 
 
 Hi Scott, 
 
 Yup, you're right. I don't see any easy way of modulating the RF on this 
 generator. I'll ask the designer if he can think of a way and get back to the 
 group. 
 
 Ken 
 ___
 Kenneth Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC 
 56 Aspen Dr.
 Woodland Park, CO 
 
 Phone: (719) 310-5418 / Toll Free: (877) 443-9275
 
 Email Me! | Web Site | Blog 
 The EMC Blog (TM World)
 Subscribe to Newsletter
 Connect with me on LinkedIn 
 
 On Nov 4, 2013, at 8:34 AM, S Drysdale sdd...@gmail.com wrote: 
 
 Hi Ken,
 
 In my experience, a device may sometimes pass CW, but fail when modulated.  
 Can you advise an economic way to modulate the RF?  
 
 Best Regards, 
 Scott Drysdale 
 OOO - Own Opinions only 
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com wrote: 
 Hi All, 
 
 I just uploaded a new posting - Review: inexpensive RF generator 
 
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4423710/Review--inexpensive-RF-generator
  
 
 Thought this might be helpful for some applications. 
 
 Cheers, Ken 
 
 ___ 
 Ken Wyatt 
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC 
 k...@emc-seminars.com 
 www.emc-seminars.com 
 Phone: (719) 310-5418 
 
 -
 
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc

Re: [PSES] Inexpensive RF generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Bill,

You're probably correct in that, while relatively high, the various harmonics 
are still low enough that for radiated immunity purposes, the fundamental 
output will still be dominant enough for an accurate test.

I did check to see whether the generator would sweep (or step) downward, and it 
doesn't. :-)

Cheers, Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418 / Toll Free: (877) 443-9275

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (TM World)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Nov 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Only if it frequency sweeps down instead of or as well as the common up sweep.
 Intuitivily, one notices that this sweeps the fundamental freq as the leading 
 signal and that the harmonics just follow along in the already swept regions.
 Any discovered problem will be due to the fudamental and not some unsuspected 
 higher harmonic sneaking along ahead of an up sweeping generator.
 
 
 
 
 On Sunday, November 3, 2013 1:01 AM, Douglas Smith d...@emcesd.com wrote:
 Hi Ken and the group,
 
 Sounds like a very nice generator. I wish it could be controlled from a web 
 browser for a universal interface, like many scopes these days. My 
 productivity is so much higher on a Mac compared to Windows, that a Windows 
 machine is to expensive for me to use (about an hour/day saved for the kind 
 of work I do).
 
 BTW, I have just found a nice 3 Watt amplifier, short/open circuit stable, 
 that goes from a few MHz to 3 GHz for bench top troubleshooting of radiated 
 immunity issues. As soon as I get a chance to evaluate it, I will post the 
 information. It can be driven from a tracking generator or the generator in 
 the EDN article.
 
 Doug
 --
  ___  _Doug Smith
   \  / )   P.O. Box 60941
=   Boulder City, NV 89006-0941
 _ / \ / \ _TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108/570-6013
   /  /\  \ ] /  /\  \  Mobile:  408-858-4528
  |  q-( )  |  o  | Email:   d...@dsmith.org
   \ _ /]\ _ /  Web: http://www.dsmith.org
 --
 On 11/2/13 5:10 PM, Ken Wyatt wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 I just uploaded a new posting - Review: inexpensive RF generator
 
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4423710/Review--inexpensive-RF-generator
 
 Thought this might be helpful for some applications.
 
 Cheers, Ken
 
 ___
 Ken Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC
 k...@emc-seminars.com
 www.emc-seminars.com
 Phone: (719) 310-5418
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
 Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
 
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 emc-p...@ieee.org
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site

Re: [PSES] Inexpensive RF generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi Scott, 

Yup, you're right. I don't see any easy way of modulating the RF on this 
generator. I'll ask the designer if he can think of a way and get back to the 
group.

Ken
___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418 / Toll Free: (877) 443-9275

Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
The EMC Blog (TM World)
Subscribe to Newsletter
Connect with me on LinkedIn

On Nov 4, 2013, at 8:34 AM, S Drysdale sdd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Ken,
 
 In my experience, a device may sometimes pass CW, but fail when modulated.  
 Can you advise an economic way to modulate the RF?  
 
 Best Regards,
 Scott Drysdale
 OOO - Own Opinions only
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 I just uploaded a new posting - Review: inexpensive RF generator
 
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4423710/Review--inexpensive-RF-generator
 
 Thought this might be helpful for some applications.
 
 Cheers, Ken
 
 ___
 Ken Wyatt
 Wyatt Technical Services LLC
 k...@emc-seminars.com
 www.emc-seminars.com
 Phone: (719) 310-5418
 
 -
 
 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
 discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT;
 
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
 formats), large files, etc.
 
 Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
 Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
 unsubscribe)
 List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
 
 For help, send mail to the list administrators:
 Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT;
 Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT;
 
 For policy questions, send mail to:
 Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT;
 David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT;
 
 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] Inexpensive RF generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just uploaded a new posting - Review: inexpensive RF generator

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4423710/Review--inexpensive-RF-generator

Thought this might be helpful for some applications.

Cheers, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com

[PSES] October EMC Blogs

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

Here's an update on some blog postings and an EDN article from this past 
October.

Review: Right the First Time, by Lee Ritchey: 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4421861/Review--Right-The-First-Time--by-Lee-Richey

Protect Circuits from ESD: 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4422551/Protect-Circuits-From-ESD

Measuring resonance in cables: 
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4423597/Measuring-resonance-in-cables

I also did more of a fun article on sub-$200 oscilloscopes: 
http://www.edn.com/design/test-and-measurement/4422846/Try-an-oscilloscope-for-under--200

Best wishes, Ken

___
Ken Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
Phone: (719) 310-5418


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com