Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Gregg: > reads:"ETL VERIFIED TO EIA/TIA TSD-40 CATEGORY 5 E111018 TYPE CM 24 AWG > (UL)LL92833 CSA TYPE FCC FT4" Aha! Here is what I learned about this cable from the marking and from the UL web pages, and from the National Electrical Code: "E111018" This is the UL file number. This identifies the cable manufacturer. Going to the UL web page, I entered the file number and determined that this cable is made by Madison Cable Group of Worcester, Massachusetts. "CM" This indicates a specific kind of Communications Cable (general purpose). I learned this from the Guide Information on the UL web page for Madison Cable and from the National Electrical Code. Note that this cable is not AWM (Appliance Wiring Material). Therefore, it is not required to bear the UR mark. "VERIFIED TO EIA/TIA TSD-40 CATEGORY 5" This is an additional marking for cables evaluated to a Data Transmission Performance Category Program. I learned this, too, from the Guide Information. "LL92833 CSA" This is the CSA equivalent to the file number. "24 AWG" This is the wire size. I don't understand the remaining markings, "ETL" and "TYPE FCC FT4." I'm guessing the latter is the CSA type. Kinda fun to learn what all the markings mean! According to the Guide Information, the UL certification is provided on the reel, an attached tag, or the smallest container. The Listing mark is comprised of: the UL in a circle; the word "LISTED"; the control number; the product name, "Communications Cable." So, for this product, the UL certification mark does not appear on the product itself. Clearly, these markings are not for the casual user. While I consider myself a professional in the field of product safety, I clearly don't understand either all of the markings or how the meaning of the markings is to be used in constraining the use of this cable. The Guide Information does point me to Article 800 of the National Electrical Code. Article 800 is entitled "Communications Circuits." The Article specifies that "communications wires and cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed..." Hence, UL has a NEC-required job of listing communications cables. In essence, the code specifies what types of communications cables, e.g., CM, can be installed in the various parts of a building. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Rich - I know what is says - but I just picked up my LAN cable and it reads:"ETL VERIFIED TO EIA/TIA TSD-40 CATEGORY 5 E111018 TYPE CM 24 AWG (UL)LL92833 CSA TYPE FCC FT4" 'nuff said... Best regards Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Rich Nute Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 8:14 PM To: gkerv...@eu-link.com Cc: chris.maxw...@nettest.com; am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Hi Gregg: > The File number 'may' be used on things like cable (it is common to see UL > and CSA file numbers) and other components - Control numbers (I forget the > correct terminology) is required on some UR components but not all Listed > products. UL Listed wire: According to the UL Yellow Book, UL-certified Appliance Wiring Material must bear the UR mark. If the wire bears the UL file number, then it is either in lieu of the manufacturer's name or is in addition to the manufacturer's name; the file number is NOT required. UL Listed products: The UL 4-character control number is ALWAYS required on a Listed product. UR Recognized Components: There is no control number for UL Recognized Components (UR). The usual UL component certification mark is the manufacturer's name and model number. For some components, e.g., connectors, the UR mark either is not required or is optional. For some components, the UR mark is required. The UL Yellow Book identifies the required markings for components, including those components that must bear the UR mark. I hope this answers your question. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Agreed, and if it weren't for the unscrupulous we wouldn't need follow-up inspections, or laser embossed UL logos etc. A certain large country had so many bogus UL marks on power supplies that they have recently instituted a holographic mark on some recognized supplies. (That didn't work for Microsoft on their software - but at least it makes them work harder) Gary -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:36 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Gary - Or for the less scrupulous than careless, to remove the certification mark from a product and place it one that is not safety certified. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com > From: Gary McInturff > > The Product identity may be omitted if the > Mark is directly and > permanently applied to the product, stamping, > molding, ink-stamping > I assume that is because you can't > mistakenly put and ITE label on a > medical device or something during manufacture. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Guys, I think that we've found the rub. UL is different than CSA in this regard (marking). UL can certify products for "dual" listing in US and Canada. CSA can also certify for dual listing in US and Canada. However, there is a difference in the marking requirements. We have used CSA ourselves, so I went and looked at our latest product report. In the marking section it mentions that the CSA logo with the "C US" subscript is required. However, all of the other markings are manufacturer, model number, ... All information that we put on our existing serial/model tags. There is no requirement for file number, listing number ... (Specific information required by UL, see Kurt Andrews reply attached below) It appears to me that CSA (unlike UL) marking lends itself to using a generic label. So, I'm trying to find an approved source for a label with the CSA logo along with the "C US" subscript. Some of the replies that I have received have pointed me toward some vendors which I am going to check out. Stay compliant guys... and as always...if I've said anything wrong I only have myself to blame and I'm sure that one of my learned colleagues will set the record straight. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: Andrews, Kurt [SMTP:kandr...@tracewell.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:35 AM > To: 'Peter Merguerian'; 'Rich Nute'; rpick...@hypercom.com > Cc: Chris Maxwell; emc-p...@ieee.org > Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. > > Rich and others, > > Here is what the Listing Mark Data Page says in one of our FUS books > for a > piece of Listed ITE equipment that was Listed to UL 1950. Note number > 3 > below stating that you can use the File Number or the Control Number. > By the > way we create our own Listing Mark labels using the downloadable > Listing > Marks from the UL website and a label maker and software combination > manufactured by Brady. > > PROCUREMENT > > All Listing Marks shall be obtained from a supplier authorized by > Underwriters Laboratories Inc. unless the Listing Mark is molded, > cast, > die-stamped, rubber stamped, silk screened or reproduced by the > manufacturer. > > COMPOSITION AND ELEMENTS > > 1. UL in circle symbol > 2. The word "LISTED" > 3. The assigned control number(s) or the Applicant/Listee's File > Number > 4. Product identity. Consists of the following: > > "UL 1950", "NWGQ", "INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT", INFO. TECH. > EQUIP.", > or "I.T.E." In addition, the name or the specific type of product as > shown > on the individual Listing (i.e. 'ADDING MACHINE", "CALCULATOR", > "PRINTER", > "PERSONAL COMPUTER", etc.) may also be noted. > > If the first three elements are directly applied to the product by > die-stamping, ink-stamping, silk screening, molding, etching, or > similar > processes, or if they are part of a nameplate which includes either > the > electrical rating or the catalog or model designation, the product > identity > may appear elsewhere on the product. > > Minimum size is not specified as long as the Listing Mark is legible. > The > first three elements shall be in close proximity. > > SEPARABLE LISTING MARK > > If separable Listing Marks are employed, all four elements are > required to > be part of the sticker, label, decal, etc. (A separable Listing Mark > is one > which bears only the Listing Mark information and is separately > applied.) > > Kurt Andrews > Compliance Engineer > > Tracewell Systems, Inc. > 567 Enterprise Drive > Westerville, Ohio 43081 > voice: 614.846.6175 > toll free: 800.848.4525 > fax: 614.846.7791 > > http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Peter: Thanks for sending the UL letter and UL Listing Mark page. I stand corrected. For Information Technology Equipment, UL's letter of March 31, 1995, authorizes the optional use of the file number as the control number. Apparently, this option is not available for non-ITE products. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Rich, >> 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol), >> 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters, >> 3. The assigned control number*, and >> 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.) >> >> * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a >> manufacturer, or manufacuring >> location (I have also seen UL file numbers used here, although I'm not >> sure that UL objects to >> that). >The file number cannot replace the control number. >The control number is always required. > >The file number can replace the manufacturer's name, >or can be used in addition to the manufacturer's >name. I agree with you on what is spelled out. However, the reason that I said what I did was that I have seen more than a few UL Listing marks over the years on products with only the UL in a circle and a UL file number. I was just reflecting on past observations. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Rich - Regarding UL Recognized Component Appliance Wiring Material, the yellow book states that the marking must be on a tag, the reel or smallest unit container, not surface marked on the wire insulation, as referred to by Greg. Very few UL FUS folks will accept surface marking, though I had seen some loosening up in recent years. The message is, don't rely on the wire surface making and keep the reel handy at the factory's work station. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com > From: Rich Nute > >Hi Gregg: > > > The File number 'may' be used on things like cable (it is common to see UL > > and CSA file numbers) and other components - Control numbers (I forget the > > correct terminology) is required on some UR components but not all Listed > > products. > > UL Listed wire: > > According to the UL Yellow Book, UL-certified > Appliance Wiring Material must bear the UR mark. > > If the wire bears the UL file number, then it is > either in lieu of the manufacturer's name or is > in addition to the manufacturer's name; the file > number is NOT required. > > > Best regards, > Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Gary - Or for the less scrupulous than careless, to remove the certification mark from a product and place it one that is not safety certified. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com > From: Gary McInturff > > The Product identity may be omitted if the > Mark is directly and > permanently applied to the product, stamping, > molding, ink-stamping > I assume that is because you can't > mistakenly put and ITE label on a > medical device or something during manufacture. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Peter - If you have such a memo, please do provide a copy. I my years working at UL and working with them since, it was ever abundantly and adamantly maintained (by UL's FUS Label Services group) that the Control Number is a required part of the Listing Mark and there is no substitution for it. The UL File No. may be used as a substitution the for company identification, in the ilk of a trademark or tradename. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com > From: Peter Merguerian > > Rich, > > For ITE, the file number may be used in lieu of > control number. I will be > glad to provide a memo from UL Labels Department > regarding this issue. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Rich is quite right, in general. There are UL Listing Marks available, but they won't have the other three required elements that make up the complete marking (some may include the word "Listed"). The page Rich referred to in a UL Follow-Up Services Procedure, though, is separate from the Section General and is called the Listing Mark Data Page. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com > From: Rich Nute > > > A generic UL label is not possible. Section General of > your UL FUS Procedure identifies 4 elements that comprise > the UL certification mark: > > Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Rich and others, Here is what the Listing Mark Data Page says in one of our FUS books for a piece of Listed ITE equipment that was Listed to UL 1950. Note number 3 below stating that you can use the File Number or the Control Number. By the way we create our own Listing Mark labels using the downloadable Listing Marks from the UL website and a label maker and software combination manufactured by Brady. PROCUREMENT All Listing Marks shall be obtained from a supplier authorized by Underwriters Laboratories Inc. unless the Listing Mark is molded, cast, die-stamped, rubber stamped, silk screened or reproduced by the manufacturer. COMPOSITION AND ELEMENTS 1. UL in circle symbol 2. The word "LISTED" 3. The assigned control number(s) or the Applicant/Listee's File Number 4. Product identity. Consists of the following: "UL 1950", "NWGQ", "INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT", INFO. TECH. EQUIP.", or "I.T.E." In addition, the name or the specific type of product as shown on the individual Listing (i.e. 'ADDING MACHINE", "CALCULATOR", "PRINTER", "PERSONAL COMPUTER", etc.) may also be noted. If the first three elements are directly applied to the product by die-stamping, ink-stamping, silk screening, molding, etching, or similar processes, or if they are part of a nameplate which includes either the electrical rating or the catalog or model designation, the product identity may appear elsewhere on the product. Minimum size is not specified as long as the Listing Mark is legible. The first three elements shall be in close proximity. SEPARABLE LISTING MARK If separable Listing Marks are employed, all four elements are required to be part of the sticker, label, decal, etc. (A separable Listing Mark is one which bears only the Listing Mark information and is separately applied.) Kurt Andrews Compliance Engineer Tracewell Systems, Inc. 567 Enterprise Drive Westerville, Ohio 43081 voice: 614.846.6175 toll free: 800.848.4525 fax: 614.846.7791 http://www.tracewellsystems.com/ -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 3:41 AM To: 'Rich Nute'; rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: chris.maxw...@nettest.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Rich, For ITE, the file number may be used in lieu of control number. I will be glad to provide a memo from UL Labels Department regarding this issue. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:09 AM To: rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: chris.maxw...@nettest.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Hi Ron: > 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol), > 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters, > 3. The assigned control number*, and > 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.) > > * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a manufacturer, or manufacuring > location (I have also seen UL file numbers used here, although I'm not sure that UL objects to > that). The file number cannot replace the control number. The control number is always required. The file number can replace the manufacturer's name, or can be used in addition to the manufacturer's name. > So, given the above and IMHO, I would say that just a generic UL Listing mark would neither be > acceptable nor authorized by UL. However, I recommend contacting UL for their official position on > the use of their Listing mark. The generic UL mark (the UL in a circle -- without the other three items) may be used in advertising or on the product carton. I believe UL has some guidelines for this use. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Rich, For ITE, the file number may be used in lieu of control number. I will be glad to provide a memo from UL Labels Department regarding this issue. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:09 AM To: rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: chris.maxw...@nettest.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Hi Ron: > 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol), > 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters, > 3. The assigned control number*, and > 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.) > > * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a manufacturer, or manufacuring > location (I have also seen UL file numbers used here, although I'm not sure that UL objects to > that). The file number cannot replace the control number. The control number is always required. The file number can replace the manufacturer's name, or can be used in addition to the manufacturer's name. > So, given the above and IMHO, I would say that just a generic UL Listing mark would neither be > acceptable nor authorized by UL. However, I recommend contacting UL for their official position on > the use of their Listing mark. The generic UL mark (the UL in a circle -- without the other three items) may be used in advertising or on the product carton. I believe UL has some guidelines for this use. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Gregg: > The File number 'may' be used on things like cable (it is common to see UL > and CSA file numbers) and other components - Control numbers (I forget the > correct terminology) is required on some UR components but not all Listed > products. UL Listed wire: According to the UL Yellow Book, UL-certified Appliance Wiring Material must bear the UR mark. If the wire bears the UL file number, then it is either in lieu of the manufacturer's name or is in addition to the manufacturer's name; the file number is NOT required. UL Listed products: The UL 4-character control number is ALWAYS required on a Listed product. UR Recognized Components: There is no control number for UL Recognized Components (UR). The usual UL component certification mark is the manufacturer's name and model number. For some components, e.g., connectors, the UR mark either is not required or is optional. For some components, the UR mark is required. The UL Yellow Book identifies the required markings for components, including those components that must bear the UR mark. I hope this answers your question. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Just happen to be looking this up when you e-mail arrived. I noticed something interesting buried in the Listing Mark data page. Paragraph 5 in our UL report. I think they are generic pages so likely you would find it in the same place in your reports/procedures. The Product identity may be omitted if the Mark is directly and permanently applied to the product, stamping, molding, ink-stamping I assume that is because you can't mistakenly put and ITE label on a medical device or something during manufacture. -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 1:57 PM To: chris.maxw...@nettest.com Cc: gkerv...@eu-link.com; am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. Hi Chris: > Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer > leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or > CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the > manufacturer, model and serial number? In my response to Amund, I indicated that UL requires a manufacturer identifier, which is usually the manufacturer's name, but alternatively can be the UL file number. UL also requires a product identifier such as the model number, but does not require a serial number. A generic UL label is not possible. Section General of your UL FUS Procedure identifies 4 elements that comprise the UL certification mark: 1. The copyrighted UL mark itself (UL in a circle). 2. The word "Listed." 3. The category of equipment, e.g., "ITE" or "PRINTER." 4. The UL control number assigned to the manufacturer for this specific category of equipment. While you may be able to buy Item 1, or even Items 1 and 2, on a "generic" pre-printed label, you must necessarily provide Item 3 because it describes your equipment, and you must necessarily provide Item 4 because it is unique to you. All of these elements must be in reasonable proximity of each other. I don't believe CSA has the same four requirements for its mark. So, I believe you can buy the generic CSA mark. Be sure to verify this statement with CSA before taking any action. Good luck, and best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
The File number 'may' be used on things like cable (it is common to see UL and CSA file numbers) and other components - Control numbers (I forget the correct terminology) is required on some UR components but not all Listed products. Please confirm someone. Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Chris Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:25 PM To: Gregg Kervill; am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. This thread brings up a question that I have been wondering about. Amund's question dealt with a product that had the UL label and a file number. The file number was used to identify the manufacturer. My understanding of the response that Amund received is that this identification is adequate My question is: Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the manufacturer, model and serial number? If this can be done, are there any sources for pre-printed UL and/or CSA labels? I'd especially be interested in one with the CSA mark and the "C US" subscript denoting dual UL/CSA certification. These days, management likes using less custom parts and saving money. Even if it's labels :-) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: Gregg Kervill [SMTP:gkerv...@eu-link.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:53 AM > To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. > > > > It is - however - wise not to read too much into this decision and > assume > that obtaining a CB Report from a UL Product is matter of fact. > > > There are many pitfalls. E.g. - X and Y Caps may be have been reviewed > to an > older (950) standard that permits compliance to EITHER UL OR IEC. > > > Been there - Done that - got that tee shirt.. > > > Gregg > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of > am...@westin-emission.no > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 4:22 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: SV: UL - marking > > > > I promised to send you the result regarding the UL marking/label on a > open > frame power supply. The local UL-follow-up folks have now agreed that > the UL > file number identifies the power supply manufacturer, even that the > distribution company has the company logo on the label. They said in > this > case it was OK because the have checked and compared the UL and CB > reports > and are therefore convinced. > > > Amund > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. <>
Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Ron: > 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol), > 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters, > 3. The assigned control number*, and > 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.) > > * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a > manufacturer, or manufacuring > location (I have also seen UL file numbers used here, although I'm not sure > that UL objects to > that). The file number cannot replace the control number. The control number is always required. The file number can replace the manufacturer's name, or can be used in addition to the manufacturer's name. > So, given the above and IMHO, I would say that just a generic UL Listing > mark would neither be > acceptable nor authorized by UL. However, I recommend contacting UL for > their official position on > the use of their Listing mark. The generic UL mark (the UL in a circle -- without the other three items) may be used in advertising or on the product carton. I believe UL has some guidelines for this use. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Chris, To answer your question, look to your UL Follow-Up Service Procedure (FUSP) and find the "Listing Mark Data" page. This page details the composition and elements of the UL Listing mark, which are: 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol), 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters, 3. The assigned control number*, and 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.) * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a manufacturer, or manufacuring location (I have also seen UL file numbers used here, although I'm not sure that UL objects to that). So, given the above and IMHO, I would say that just a generic UL Listing mark would neither be acceptable nor authorized by UL. However, I recommend contacting UL for their official position on the use of their Listing mark. I hope this answers your question. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com chris.maxwell@NetTest.c om To: gkerv...@eu-link.com, am...@westin-emission.no, Sent by: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordomcc: o.ieee.org Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. 10/17/01 12:24 PM Please respond to chris.maxwell This thread brings up a question that I have been wondering about. Amund's question dealt with a product that had the UL label and a file number. The file number was used to identify the manufacturer. My understanding of the response that Amund received is that this identification is adequate My question is: Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the manufacturer, model and serial number? If this can be done, are there any sources for pre-printed UL and/or CSA labels? I'd especially be interested in one with the CSA mark and the "C US" subscript denoting dual UL/CSA certification. These days, management likes using less custom parts and saving money. Even if it's labels :-) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: Gregg Kervill [SMTP:gkerv...@eu-link.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:53 AM > To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. > > > > It is - however - wise not to read too much into this decision and > assume > that obtaining a CB Report from a UL Product is matter of fact. > > > There are many pitfalls. E.g. - X and Y Caps may be have been reviewed > to an > older (950) standard that permits compliance to EITHER UL OR IEC. > > > Been there - Done that - got that tee shirt.. > > > Gregg > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of > am...@westin-emission.no > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 4:22 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: SV: UL - marking > > > > I promised to send you the result regarding the UL marking/label on a > open > frame power supply. The local UL-follow-up folks have now agreed that > the UL > file number identifies the power supply manufacturer, even that the > distribution company has the c
Re: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Hi Chris: > Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer > leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or > CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the > manufacturer, model and serial number? In my response to Amund, I indicated that UL requires a manufacturer identifier, which is usually the manufacturer's name, but alternatively can be the UL file number. UL also requires a product identifier such as the model number, but does not require a serial number. A generic UL label is not possible. Section General of your UL FUS Procedure identifies 4 elements that comprise the UL certification mark: 1. The copyrighted UL mark itself (UL in a circle). 2. The word "Listed." 3. The category of equipment, e.g., "ITE" or "PRINTER." 4. The UL control number assigned to the manufacturer for this specific category of equipment. While you may be able to buy Item 1, or even Items 1 and 2, on a "generic" pre-printed label, you must necessarily provide Item 3 because it describes your equipment, and you must necessarily provide Item 4 because it is unique to you. All of these elements must be in reasonable proximity of each other. I don't believe CSA has the same four requirements for its mark. So, I believe you can buy the generic CSA mark. Be sure to verify this statement with CSA before taking any action. Good luck, and best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
Chris, The use of a 'generic' UL mark, in the case of ITE products, is not possible. As was noted in an earlier thread about the mark, a proper UL mark consists of 4 elements (as per the "Listing Mark Data Page" in your FUS procedure): 1) The UL Logo 2) The word 'Listed' 3) A 4 digit alphanumeric 'control number' OR the Applicant/Listee's file number 4) The product identity (i.e. I.T.E., NWGQ, etc). The control number (or File number) is used to identify the manufacturer. The control number is typically issued when the manufacturer provides a drawing on how the Mark will be depicted on the product. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:25 PM To: Gregg Kervill; am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. This thread brings up a question that I have been wondering about. Amund's question dealt with a product that had the UL label and a file number. The file number was used to identify the manufacturer. My understanding of the response that Amund received is that this identification is adequate My question is: Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the manufacturer, model and serial number? If this can be done, are there any sources for pre-printed UL and/or CSA labels? I'd especially be interested in one with the CSA mark and the "C US" subscript denoting dual UL/CSA certification. These days, management likes using less custom parts and saving money. Even if it's labels :-) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
This thread brings up a question that I have been wondering about. Amund's question dealt with a product that had the UL label and a file number. The file number was used to identify the manufacturer. My understanding of the response that Amund received is that this identification is adequate My question is: Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the manufacturer, model and serial number? If this can be done, are there any sources for pre-printed UL and/or CSA labels? I'd especially be interested in one with the CSA mark and the "C US" subscript denoting dual UL/CSA certification. These days, management likes using less custom parts and saving money. Even if it's labels :-) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -Original Message- > From: Gregg Kervill [SMTP:gkerv...@eu-link.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:53 AM > To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate. > > > > It is - however - wise not to read too much into this decision and > assume > that obtaining a CB Report from a UL Product is matter of fact. > > > There are many pitfalls. E.g. - X and Y Caps may be have been reviewed > to an > older (950) standard that permits compliance to EITHER UL OR IEC. > > > Been there - Done that - got that tee shirt.. > > > Gregg > > -Original Message- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of > am...@westin-emission.no > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 4:22 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: SV: UL - marking > > > > I promised to send you the result regarding the UL marking/label on a > open > frame power supply. The local UL-follow-up folks have now agreed that > the UL > file number identifies the power supply manufacturer, even that the > distribution company has the company logo on the label. They said in > this > case it was OK because the have checked and compared the UL and CB > reports > and are therefore convinced. > > > Amund > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL - marking - gentle warning not to extrapolate.
It is - however - wise not to read too much into this decision and assume that obtaining a CB Report from a UL Product is matter of fact. There are many pitfalls. E.g. - X and Y Caps may be have been reviewed to an older (950) standard that permits compliance to EITHER UL OR IEC. Been there - Done that - got that tee shirt.. Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of am...@westin-emission.no Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 4:22 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: SV: UL - marking I promised to send you the result regarding the UL marking/label on a open frame power supply. The local UL-follow-up folks have now agreed that the UL file number identifies the power supply manufacturer, even that the distribution company has the company logo on the label. They said in this case it was OK because the have checked and compared the UL and CB reports and are therefore convinced. Amund --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
