Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.06.19 11:18, Chris Albertson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 2:08 AM Erik Christiansen
>  wrote:
> >
> 
> > Since my Udoo X86 went wobbly, I'm looking for a new youtube machine.
> > (The video breaks up after ten minutes of running, without the
> > temperature triggered fan spinning up. Feels cool too. Maybe it's high
> > ESR supply caps?)

> But maybe a "Youtube machine" means you are just watching Youtube.

Yup, that and clips on ABC, BBC, and Danish news sites.

> It that case a cell phone does really well as does some really old PC
> notebooks I've loaded Linux on.

My flip phone has a postage stamp sized screen, and the $60 prepaid I
put on it each year wouldn't stretch far. It doesn't have an HDMI output
to drive my monitor.

I have six ex-school notebooks, but their BIOS won't boot from USB to
allow me to install linux. Maybe if I pull the drive out, reformat, and
install linux while plugged into another computer, that'll do the job?
Or will it load up the kernel with a bunch of drivers for the wrong
host?

I could spend a lot of time without much result, when a modestly priced
mobo would drop in place of the duff Udoo X86.

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 01:15, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>  If you do not get the viewership you want maybe it is the
subject matter.

I don't really care, I do it just in case it's interesting to other folk.

I was actually offered the chance to "monetize" years and years ago (when
the rules were different) but decided that I never would.
And now the rules have changed I can't change my mind (and probably
wouldn't) Though I probably should finish the video I am half way through.

There is at least one chap we see on the LinuxCNC IRC most nights who has
 a proper channel, and 50k+ subscribers.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 19:20, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> My daughter ran a decent Youtube channel, good enough that Youtube
> > sent her a small payment based of the 100,000 or so views she got.
>
>
> I assume this was some time ago? As now you need 1000 subscribers and
> 50,000 minutes of watch time per year to get anything at all.

I don't know the details but not that long ago and she did not get
much money.She made one
new video every week. If you do not get the viewership you want
maybe it is the subject
matter.You need to be female and talk about cloths, hair and
makeup. then a ba'zillion
teen age girls will watch.

Also how are your production standards?  No one woll care what computer you used
but the #1 think to drive virewers away is poor audio.   Most
Youtubers are not good
at audio.   I told here this and she would most do voice over after
the video ws shot
using studio grade microphone and so on.   Good audio is so rare that
it can actuly
set you apart.   What I say "good"  be as good as network news shows.

She still gets boxes of free stuff from the cosmetics companies.
But of late she has desided to be major in biochemistry and has zero
time for Youtube




-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Sam Sokolik]

Last I looked was 4000 hours...  that is 240,000 minutes...

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 3:01 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 19:20, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> My daughter ran a decent Youtube channel, good enough that Youtube
> > sent her a small payment based of the 100,000 or so views she got.
>
>
> I assume this was some time ago? As now you need 1000 subscribers and
> 50,000 minutes of watch time per year to get anything at all.
> (I am close to the subscriber count, but way down on watch time. But my
> most popular video has 199,218 views)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 19:20, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

My daughter ran a decent Youtube channel, good enough that Youtube
> sent her a small payment based of the 100,000 or so views she got.


I assume this was some time ago? As now you need 1000 subscribers and
50,000 minutes of watch time per year to get anything at all.
(I am close to the subscriber count, but way down on watch time. But my
most popular video has 199,218 views)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 2:08 AM Erik Christiansen
 wrote:
>

> Since my Udoo X86 went wobbly, I'm looking for a new youtube machine.
> (The video breaks up after ten minutes of running, without the
> temperature triggered fan spinning up. Feels cool too. Maybe it's high
> ESR supply caps?)

What is a "Youtube machine"?Are you editing video for posting to
Youtube?  Video editingis the #1 excuse for buying high end hardware.
 The Apple iMac Prowould be ideal but what is your budget?  The iMac
Pro starts at abuot $5K.  Not a lot if you make you living with video
but to much for a hobby.A god used iMac might sell for under $1K
and be good enoug and run Final Cut Pro.

My daughter ran a decent Youtube channel, good enough that Youtube
sent her a small payment based of the 100,000 or so views she got.
She use a 13" Macbook Pro, FInal Cut Pro.  But also some lights, a
good camera and I lent her some good audio recording gear.  Sound
quality matters  a lot.

But maybe a "Youtube machine" means you are just watching Youtube.
It that case a cell phone does really well as does some really old PC
notebooks I've loaded Linux on.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Erik Christiansen]

On 16.06.19 13:56, Chris Albertson wrote:
> The Pi3+ has considerable faster CPU performance vs. the BBB.   Also twice
> the RAM and good built-in WiFi.
> Yes the Pi's Ethernet has limited bandwidth but how much is required?In
> the old days people were using parallel ports on PCs and they have VERY
> limited data rate compared to the Pi's Ethernet.t  The Pi's ethernet is not
> a problem in our case as not much data is being sent.
> 
> But I keep wondering why not use an Intel i5 or i3?   You can buy a refurb
> PC that came off lease foruder $200 and it will have a power supply and
> case and a disk and run circles around the Pi. And if you want good
> graphics the PC has a PCIe slot what you can drop in an Nvidia GPU.

Since my Udoo X86 went wobbly, I'm looking for a new youtube machine.
(The video breaks up after ten minutes of running, without the
temperature triggered fan spinning up. Feels cool too. Maybe it's high
ESR supply caps?)

If a Pi3+ isn't optimal, is there a smallish mobo with good integrated
graphics so I don't have to fork out for that separately?

I'd want to run devuan (debian without systemd) on it. That works a
treat on the Udoo X86.) Hmmm, I must unearth the Bitscope oscilloscope
adaptor and take a look at the supply rail.

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Chris Albertson]

The Pi3+ has considerable faster CPU performance vs. the BBB.   Also twice
the RAM and good built-in WiFi.
Yes the Pi's Ethernet has limited bandwidth but how much is required?In
the old days people were using parallel ports on PCs and they have VERY
limited data rate compared to the Pi's Ethernet.t  The Pi's ethernet is not
a problem in our case as not much data is being sent.

But I keep wondering why not use an Intel i5 or i3?   You can buy a refurb
PC that came off lease foruder $200 and it will have a power supply and
case and a disk and run circles around the Pi. And if you want good
graphics the PC has a PCIe slot what you can drop in an Nvidia GPU.


One very promising chip in the stm32mp157.   It has an ARM Cortex M4, a
very powerfull real-time chip and also a dual-core ARM cortex A that can
run a real-time Linux. It's new so the only products are evaluation
kits form ST.   This could make for a stand-alone CNC controller.
https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32mp157c.html

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 12:31 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:
>
> As far as I can see the only reason to consider a Pi, especially with the
lower number of I/O available is because it's got better video compared to
a Beagle.  Otherwise why even bother?
>
> John--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

On 6/16/19 2:29 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: June-16-19 11:22 AM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
>>
>> On 6/16/19 1:09 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> I don't think that you can use the Pi Ethernet for LinuxCNC as it is on the
>>> USB bus.  (I might be wrong about one ot both of these points)
>>>
>>> Machinekit has the hal_gpio driver for Pi GPIO:
>>>
>> https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/ha
>> l_gpio.c
>>> And I was actually surprised that that wasn't in LinuxCNC.
>>> Looking through the code they seem to also have similar drivers for the
>>> Orange Pi, CHIP and a few other boards.
>> The Orange and Banana Pi's use ARM SOC's with integrated Ethernet
>> controllers vs the Rpi with the Ethernet controller on USB.
>>
>> With the open Mali drivers we can have accelerated 2D/3D as well now and
>> use the Mesa cards over Ethernet. Some of the Banana pi's also have PCIe
>> as a third option (SPI, Ethernet, PCIe) to connect to Mesa FPGA cards.
>>
> As far as I can see the only reason to consider a Pi, especially with the 
> lower number of I/O available is because it's got better video compared to a 
> Beagle.  Otherwise why even bother?
>
>
The Beagle has PRU's (integrated micro-controllers) for software
stepping. The Banana and Orange Pi's do not have integrated
micro-controllers but the i.mx8 does.

 
https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based-processors-and-mcus/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8-family-arm-cortex-a53-cortex-a72-virtualization-vision-3d-graphics-4k-video:i.MX8

In addition it has SPI, PCIe and an integrated GB Ethernet controller
for real time expansion and open source 2D/3D GPU drivers for HD GUI's.
https://www.nxp.com/assets/images/en/block-diagrams/IMX8-BD.png






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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-16-19 11:22 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> On 6/16/19 1:09 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > I don't think that you can use the Pi Ethernet for LinuxCNC as it is on the
> > USB bus.  (I might be wrong about one ot both of these points)
> >
> > Machinekit has the hal_gpio driver for Pi GPIO:
> >
> https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/ha
> l_gpio.c
> >
> > And I was actually surprised that that wasn't in LinuxCNC.
> > Looking through the code they seem to also have similar drivers for the
> > Orange Pi, CHIP and a few other boards.
> 
> The Orange and Banana Pi's use ARM SOC's with integrated Ethernet
> controllers vs the Rpi with the Ethernet controller on USB.
> 
> With the open Mali drivers we can have accelerated 2D/3D as well now and
> use the Mesa cards over Ethernet. Some of the Banana pi's also have PCIe
> as a third option (SPI, Ethernet, PCIe) to connect to Mesa FPGA cards.
> 

As far as I can see the only reason to consider a Pi, especially with the lower 
number of I/O available is because it's got better video compared to a Beagle.  
Otherwise why even bother?

John




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

On 6/16/19 1:09 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> I don't think that you can use the Pi Ethernet for LinuxCNC as it is on the
> USB bus.  (I might be wrong about one ot both of these points)
>
> Machinekit has the hal_gpio driver for Pi GPIO:
> https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_gpio.c
>
> And I was actually surprised that that wasn't in LinuxCNC.
> Looking through the code they seem to also have similar drivers for the
> Orange Pi, CHIP and a few other boards.

The Orange and Banana Pi's use ARM SOC's with integrated Ethernet
controllers vs the Rpi with the Ethernet controller on USB.

With the open Mali drivers we can have accelerated 2D/3D as well now and
use the Mesa cards over Ethernet. Some of the Banana pi's also have PCIe
as a third option (SPI, Ethernet, PCIe) to connect to Mesa FPGA cards.


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 03:20, John Dammeyer  wrote:

I think I meant time to do this for a Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC without
> using an Ethernet Mesa Card.  Or maybe that's the only way to do it with a
> PI.


I don't think that you can use the Pi Ethernet for LinuxCNC as it is on the
USB bus.  (I might be wrong about one ot both of these points)

Machinekit has the hal_gpio driver for Pi GPIO:
https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_gpio.c

And I was actually surprised that that wasn't in LinuxCNC.
Looking through the code they seem to also have similar drivers for the
Orange Pi, CHIP and a few other boards.

Though as far as I can see, no documentation for any of them...

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 13 June 2019 10:18:11 pm John Dammeyer wrote:

> > On 06/13/2019 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely
> > > functional
> >
> > LinuxCNC with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors
> > that can be swapped into existing BoBs?
> >
> >
> > Zero hours.  There is Machinekit, which is a branch of
> > LinuxCNC, that runs on the Beagle Bone Black, and has done
> > so for something like 5 years.  I make the CRAMPS board that
> > mounts up to 6 Pololu stepper drivers to it, and level
> > converts all the other I/O for it. So, a very compact
> > package and you just need to wire the motors, limit
> > switches, etc. to it, and provide a power supply.
> >
> > Jon
>
> I think I meant time to do this for a Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC
> without using an Ethernet Mesa Card.  Or maybe that's the only way to
> do it with a PI.

No, although there my be better solution now with the 7c80 on the 
horizon. I am using a 7i90HD which is a 3.3 volt only card, with 3 
7i42TA's protecting the 7i90 which gives me 72 i/o's to spend as I 
please, so I am a long way from running out of I/O even with jog dials 
on the apron instead of hand cranks.

But with the 7c80 coming into view that job can probably be done now at 
less cost than the 7i90HD plus 3 of the 7i42TA's.  That combo is working 
well with an extra spinx1 to handle the vfd. Rigid tapping, the whole 
mary-ann is just a few lines of gcode.

> I have the Xylotex DB25/26 cape.  Here's the Beagle from last year
> running part of my mill. https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ
>
> The screen handling is, at times a bit rough.
>
> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2
>ts_id=1 But your CRAMPs board could be a model for a full CNC
> motherboard.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I'm still wanting Stepstick/Pololu screw terminal breakout boards for easy and 
rugged connection of external stepper drivers. I could probably design some, 
send off to OSHpark or somewhere and have four of them for a $20 in a couple of 
weeks, then I'd have to buy the header pins and connectors. And for that there 
would be four in existence.

   Would be better for someone already in the business to have a batch made for 
economies of scale, and market them on their website...
"Have you ever wanted or needed professional, industrial grade connections of 
external motor drivers to your RAMPS, CRAMPS or other controller that has 
StepStick or Pololu stepper sockets? With these screw terminal boards your 3D 
printer, milling machine, router or other CNC machine will have exactly the 
same reliable, rugged wire connections as industrial CNC machines. Connect and 
disconnect drivers without fear of bending or breaking header pins. Works with 
all StepStick and Pololu sockets."

I'm not in nor do I want to be in the business of designing and selling 
electronics or related products.
Though I have given some thought about figuring out what it would take to make 
a USB-C ExpressCard for laptops without built in USB-C ports. USB 3.x to USB-C 
adapters *just don't work* for some USB-C devices. They need a genuine USB-C 
controller. There are dual USB-C PCI Express x1 boards for desktops. 
ExpressCard includes a PCI Express x1 bus. So WTH are there no USB-C 
ExpressCards? If one company has them made, and properly informs the public 
they exist, then demand will happen - especially with Windows10's ability to 
run quite well even on the oldest laptops that have ExpressCard slots. (It'll 
run quite well on even older ones, like a 13 year old Compaq nc8430, with Core 
2 Duo CPU upgrade.) 

On Thursday, June 13, 2019, 7:42:52 PM MDT, Jon Elson  
wrote:  
 On 06/13/2019 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional 
> LinuxCNC with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can 
> be swapped into existing BoBs?
>
>
Zero hours.  There is Machinekit, which is a branch of 
LinuxCNC, that runs on the Beagle Bone Black, and has done 
so for something like 5 years.  I make the CRAMPS board that 
mounts up to 6 Pololu stepper drivers to it, and level 
converts all the other I/O for it. So, a very compact 
package and you just need to wire the motors, limit 
switches, etc. to it, and provide a power supply.
  
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

The ProLight PLM 2000 benchtop bed mill used an Animatics servo controller. All 
the brains were in the box and it had capabilities to run headless (which 
ProLight never used). All the computer did was feed it G-Code and monitor for 
over-torque, end stop, and E stop signals.
Moog-Animatics developed their "Smart Motor" product line to do the same thing. 
the brains are attached to the motors, which can be networked together to make 
every joint or axis responsible for its own motion while coordinating with the 
others.
A dedicated LCNC controller/computer would be the same concept, but with an 
integrated control console for operator interface.

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> On 06/13/2019 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional
> LinuxCNC with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can
> be swapped into existing BoBs?
> >
> >
> Zero hours.  There is Machinekit, which is a branch of
> LinuxCNC, that runs on the Beagle Bone Black, and has done
> so for something like 5 years.  I make the CRAMPS board that
> mounts up to 6 Pololu stepper drivers to it, and level
> converts all the other I/O for it. So, a very compact
> package and you just need to wire the motors, limit
> switches, etc. to it, and provide a power supply.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
I think I meant time to do this for a Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC without using 
an Ethernet Mesa Card.  Or maybe that's the only way to do it with a PI.

I have the Xylotex DB25/26 cape.  Here's the Beagle from last year running part 
of my mill.
https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ

The screen handling is, at times a bit rough.

http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_id=1
But your CRAMPs board could be a model for a full CNC motherboard.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> > Is it the closed architecture of the Raspberry Pi that's preventing a form 
> > of
> Linux running on a Pi?
> 
> Linux is by far the most common OS used on the Pi.   I have Ubuntu 18
> running on both of my Pi3 computers.
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California

My Pi's including PiW that I used for a data gathering and telemetry project 
all run Linux.  I guess I should have said LinuxCNC or Machinekit. 

John





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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Chris Albertson]

> Is it the closed architecture of the Raspberry Pi that's preventing a form of 
> Linux running on a Pi?

Linux is by far the most common OS used on the Pi.   I have Ubuntu 18
running on both of my Pi3 computers.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 13 June 2019 09:26:36 pm John Dammeyer wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: June-13-19 4:45 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 00:38, Peter C. Wallace  
wrote:
> > > Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module
> > > and HDMI USB headers.
> > >
> > > Well a 7C80 is pretty much that
> >
> > Is that in the store yet?
> >
> > And I do prefer the module form factor for coolness.
> >
> > --
> > atp
>
> Clearly they aren't CGI simulations.  They look like real boards.
> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html   (search for 7C80 and 7C81
> or scroll down).

But the manual links are wrong, the 7c80 points to a 7i80hd manual, an 
obviously different critter and is missing yet for the 7c81.
>
>  The new  Xylotex cape fits onto a Beagle running MachineKit.
> http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=
>33_id=146
>

> Is it the closed architecture of the Raspberry Pi that's preventing a
> form of Linux running on a Pi?

No, most linuxes that have an armhf version will run on a pi 3b.

And I just succeeded today in building, and just now posting on my web 
page, a working version of master for armhf, version 2.9.0-pre0. Needs a 
4.4.4-rt9-v7+ kernel but might work on other rt-preempt kernels.
This was actually built on the pi its running on.
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 6:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> On 06/13/2019 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
> > https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
> >
> > https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >
> > With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to
> enough pins to do everything one needs.
> >
> >
> I don't know, the existing Beagle Bone Black seems to do a
> heck of a lot with just 2 PRU's.
> I think Charles Steinkuehler's code actually only uses one
> of them, but I could be wrong.
> 
> Yes, even with those big connectors, one could always use
> more I/O pins.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
The new bare bones Xylotex cape for the Beagle is an honest parallel port 
emulator with no restrictions on enable for active low or high switches.

And it doesn't look like they used the CAN bus pins which means for any I/O 
that doesn't need instant response (like a tool changer etc.) patching a CAN 
driver onto it and adding CANopen support and RS485 for MODBUS on a serial port 
would provde plenty of expansion without running scads of wires back to the 
central cabinet.

And at $25 it's inexpensive enough to order one to play with.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Jon Elson]

On 06/13/2019 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional LinuxCNC 
with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can be swapped 
into existing BoBs?


Zero hours.  There is Machinekit, which is a branch of 
LinuxCNC, that runs on the Beagle Bone Black, and has done 
so for something like 5 years.  I make the CRAMPS board that 
mounts up to 6 Pololu stepper drivers to it, and level 
converts all the other I/O for it. So, a very compact 
package and you just need to wire the motors, limit 
switches, etc. to it, and provide a power supply.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Jon Elson]

On 06/13/2019 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated LinuxCNC 
processor.  This may just be it.
https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview

https://beagleboard.org/ai

With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to 
enough pins to do everything one needs.


I don't know, the existing Beagle Bone Black seems to do a 
heck of a lot with just 2 PRU's.
I think Charles Steinkuehler's code actually only uses one 
of them, but I could be wrong.


Yes, even with those big connectors, one could always use 
more I/O pins.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 4:45 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 00:38, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
> 
> > Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module and HDMI
> >  USB headers.
> >
> > Well a 7C80 is pretty much that
> 
> 
> Is that in the store yet?
> 
> And I do prefer the module form factor for coolness.
> 
> --
> atp


Clearly they aren't CGI simulations.  They look like real boards.  
http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html   (search for 7C80 and 7C81 or scroll 
down).

 The new  Xylotex cape fits onto a Beagle running MachineKit.   
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_id=146


Is it the closed architecture of the Raspberry Pi that's preventing a form of 
Linux running on a Pi?

John



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 13 June 2019 07:25:06 pm andy pugh wrote:

> Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module and
> HDMI / USB headers.
>
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-3-plus/?variant=co
>mpute-module-3plus-32gb

The 7i76 would indeed be a killer product for some uses.  But its lack of 
sufficient encoders is also a road block. With 32 spare inputs, it could 
certainly dedicate 12 of them to accommodate 4 of the MPJA dials (They 
are single pin per signal ttl level dials) and/or put servo's on a 4 
axis machine such as the 6040. I'm already useing 2 of them in newer 
interface builds, driven by 5i25's and the thought has crossed my mind 
to ask Peter to make me a 5i25 load that puts more encoders on the 
5i25's p2 connector since I have not yet used a p2 connection on 
anything but the G0704, and there is a need for more encoders if I am to 
put a tool changer on any of my machines. those 5i25 p2 connections are 
used on the GO704 only because they were already on that BOB, home and 
gear tallies mainly. They could easily be moved to the 7i76, freeing up 
the p2 connector for a totally bidi input/output on any pin, and with 17 
pins, 4 dials would work nicely. And I'd still be inside the available 
i/o of the 7i76. Pins to spare for driving a tool changer. Absolutely a 
loverly idea.


-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 00:38, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module and HDMI
>  USB headers.
>
> Well a 7C80 is pretty much that


Is that in the store yet?

And I do prefer the module form factor for coolness.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, andy pugh wrote:


Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:25:06 +0100
From: andy pugh 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module and HDMI /

USB headers.


Well a 7C80 is pretty much that

( but for a full RPI so its compatible with RPI clones
 +- different SPI driver needed on RPI clones )


 
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-3-plus/?variant=compute-module-3plus-32gb

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

Killer product: Mesa 7i76 with a slot for the RPi compute module and HDMI /
USB headers.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-3-plus/?variant=compute-module-3plus-32gb

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 18:12, bari  wrote:

> You don't have to make nearly as many boards as that.
>
> Here's a good example:
>
> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-OLinuXino/open-source-hardware


A very relevant example is the STMBL servo driver boards I made. (not my
design, I just wanted some to use)

The cost-per-part of the components is almost constant with volume. It
drops a bit, but not enough to really matter.
PCB setup and PCBA is pretty much flat after 100 units.

Here are the actual numbers from my STMBL purchase:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h-26i7gXVHMsfAxbrWg1JodXoI41dRo-FZ9OmJNwTtk/edit?usp=sharing
(you need the "quotes" tab.)

I think that for x50 quantity PCB placement is about 1¢ per part.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

I think it's a waste of money to create a module to do the real time processing 
and then attach that to yet another board(s) set that does the I/O interfacing. 
 And then still have a PC to do the display?

Something like this doesn't have to be the be-all end-all for every possible 
permutation of a CNC system.  The person who buys a small Sherline or 
equivalent mill or a small Table Top CNC router doesn't need be-all end-all.

One only has to look at the success of the 3D printer market with integrated 
low current stepper motor drivers all in one board to see what would hit the 
largest part of the market.

My BeagleBone plugged into the Replicape (if I ever get the Delta 3D printer 
finished) can run a local LCD display but Octopi is more than adequate for 
general usage.  I'm rarely even in the same room for my Cartesian 3D printer 
and the Pi connected to the Ardunio printer controller also serves up video so 
I can watch it work.

My point was and is, something like that new BeagleBone or even the existing 
one, plugged into a larger board that is the BoB and serving up a web page for 
a tablet or other user interface is one way.  It does have HDMI but it's slow.  

Now, take that processor and the open source schematic and it all onto the BoB 
that has sockets for say the Gekco small stepper drivers but can expand out to 
larger ones.  I still have my doubts as to whether building 100 can be done for 
$35.   Probably closer to $200 without the GECKOs.  And now you are back to the 
price of PC+ MESA Ethernet and a BoB.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 3:18 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> > We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> LinuxCNC processor.
> To run the real time part and put user interface on ordinary computer?
> 
> 
> Nicklas Karlsson
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

The overall software time would be even higher. We purchased some new
AMD hardware 2-3 weeks ago and we are still fiddling with optimizing
preempt_rt and drivers for Debian Sid. Moving LinuxCNC over to an ARM
board and offering a customer a one year warranty would take weeks of
software cleanup and tweaking time.

On 6/13/19 3:03 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Hmmm.  $50 + $89 or so for the Mesa Ethernet Anything I/O card.  Two weeks at 
> 80 hours x $100/hour = $8000



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated LinuxCNC 
> processor.
To run the real time part and put user interface on ordinary computer?


Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 11:42 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> I could have new custom hardware working in a few weeks without much
> effort. The software side however always seems to take much much longer.
> 
> You can use an off the shelf Allwinner board right now (~$50) with an
> Ethernet or PCIe Mesa FPGA card. Getting the open mali drivers working
> on the Allwinner will take a couple weeks. Have to take a look at what
> to do with getting Visual Basic Macros to work with LCNC.
> 

Hmmm.  $50 + $89 or so for the Mesa Ethernet Anything I/O card.  Two weeks at 
80 hours x $100/hour = $8000

Or, surplus PC  $25 + $89 for the Message Ethernet Anything I/O  card +  
LinuxCNC Live CD ($1 for the media) and cables to existing Break Out Board 
which are needed for both systems.

Why even bother with the Allwinner board when the PC has the power supply, 
expansion connectors, DVD drive etc.

The only way you will see these small cards work is if they are part of a 
larger PC board that does what the BoB does.  One board to run the CNC system 
and it has to come in under $100.  The market just isn't there or MESA would 
have done it already.

> 
> 
> On 6/13/19 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional
> LinuxCNC with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can
> be swapped into existing BoBs?
> >
> >  And, a user interface that mimic's MACH3 so you can then market that to
> the thousands of MACH3 users who's WIN-XP systems are starting to get a
> bit long on the tooth.  The interface would have to be able to run the same
> Visual Basic Macro's that they may have written (or bought) to run special
> features.
> >
> > People have been fooled into thinking that cheap hardware (or cheap
> shoes, clothing, TVs etc) should be the norm.
> >
> > Building just the hardware, made in the far east with $1/hr labour and no
> environmental/labour standards certainly gives the rest of the world cheap
> hardware.
> >
> > But assume you are worth $100/hr.  If you do it all yourself working 40
> hours per week you really only have about 2000 hours available.  That's
> $200,000.  Now build just 100 units.  To break even, forgetting about pennies
> for the hardware you have to charge $2000 per unit.And that's assuming
> you can do everything you need in 2000 hours.
> >
> > Just because someone builds at a few pennies above cost a product for
> $35. Doesn�t mean that the end product costs $37.95.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: June-13-19 10:10 AM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> >>
> >> You don't have to make nearly as many boards as that.
> >>
> >> Here's a good example:
> >> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-
> OLinuXino/open-
> >> source-hardware
> >>
> >> They don't make more than K's of them and they make a profit. In fact I
> >> could give them the schematics and PCB files and they would make them
> >> for a few $$ over cost.
> >>
> >> On 6/13/19 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>> Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the
> >> production costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That
> won't
> >> happen for a LinuxCNC port.
> >>> So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than
> >> just the LinuxCNC community.
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> >>>> Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
> >>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> >>>>
> >>>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >>>>
> >>>> ~$100
> >>>>
> >>>> And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
> >>>> Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
> >>>> etc) if you do.
> >>>>
> >>>> Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using
> a
> >>>> $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
> >>>> STM32's for stepping or a <$25 

Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

I could have new custom hardware working in a few weeks without much
effort. The software side however always seems to take much much longer.

You can use an off the shelf Allwinner board right now (~$50) with an
Ethernet or PCIe Mesa FPGA card. Getting the open mali drivers working
on the Allwinner will take a couple weeks. Have to take a look at what
to do with getting Visual Basic Macros to work with LCNC.



On 6/13/19 12:42 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional 
> LinuxCNC with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can 
> be swapped into existing BoBs?  
>
>  And, a user interface that mimic's MACH3 so you can then market that to the 
> thousands of MACH3 users who's WIN-XP systems are starting to get a bit long 
> on the tooth.  The interface would have to be able to run the same Visual 
> Basic Macro's that they may have written (or bought) to run special features.
>
> People have been fooled into thinking that cheap hardware (or cheap shoes, 
> clothing, TVs etc) should be the norm.  
>
> Building just the hardware, made in the far east with $1/hr labour and no 
> environmental/labour standards certainly gives the rest of the world cheap 
> hardware.  
>
> But assume you are worth $100/hr.  If you do it all yourself working 40 hours 
> per week you really only have about 2000 hours available.  That's $200,000.  
> Now build just 100 units.  To break even, forgetting about pennies for the 
> hardware you have to charge $2000 per unit.And that's assuming you can do 
> everything you need in 2000 hours.
>
> Just because someone builds at a few pennies above cost a product for $35. 
> Doesn’t mean that the end product costs $37.95.
>
> John
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: June-13-19 10:10 AM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
>>
>> You don't have to make nearly as many boards as that.
>>
>> Here's a good example:
>> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-OLinuXino/open-
>> source-hardware
>>
>> They don't make more than K's of them and they make a profit. In fact I
>> could give them the schematics and PCB files and they would make them
>> for a few $$ over cost.
>>
>> On 6/13/19 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the
>> production costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That won't
>> happen for a LinuxCNC port.
>>> So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than
>> just the LinuxCNC community.
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
>>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
>>>>
>>>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>>>>
>>>> ~$100
>>>>
>>>> And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
>>>> Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
>>>> etc) if you do.
>>>>
>>>> Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
>>>> $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
>>>> STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.
>>>>
>>>> -Bari
>>>>
>>>> On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>>>> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
>>>> LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
>>>>> https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
>>>>>
>>>>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>>>>>
>>>>> With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access
>> to
>>>> enough pins to do everything one needs.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>>
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>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 13 June 2019 12:48:41 pm bari wrote:

> One might argue that this is a much better fit
>
> i.MX 8
>
> Reason #1: Not TI
>
> Reason# 2
>
>     Core Complex #1: 4x Cortex-A53
>     Core Complex #2: 2x Cortex-A72
>     2x Cortex-M4F for real time
>     1x HIFI4 DSP
>
> https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based
>-processors-and-mcus/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.m
>x-8-family-arm-cortex-a53-cortex-a72-virtualization-vision-3d-graphics-
>4k-video:i.MX8
>
> Reason #3:
> With Vivante GC7000VX with open 3d accel drivers
>
> And if you need to expand you have PCIe and GB Ethernet + SPI for
> coprocessors or FPGA's.
>
> On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> > LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
> > https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
> >
> > https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >
> > With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be
> > access to enough pins to do everything one needs.
> >
> > John

Looks like a mini-atx. Sounds kickass, but no $ mentioned. When it is 
posted, please advise.

> >
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

So how many hours of labour for you to create a completely functional LinuxCNC 
with two parallel ports on 26 pin ribbon cable connectors that can be swapped 
into existing BoBs?  

 And, a user interface that mimic's MACH3 so you can then market that to the 
thousands of MACH3 users who's WIN-XP systems are starting to get a bit long on 
the tooth.  The interface would have to be able to run the same Visual Basic 
Macro's that they may have written (or bought) to run special features.

People have been fooled into thinking that cheap hardware (or cheap shoes, 
clothing, TVs etc) should be the norm.  

Building just the hardware, made in the far east with $1/hr labour and no 
environmental/labour standards certainly gives the rest of the world cheap 
hardware.  

But assume you are worth $100/hr.  If you do it all yourself working 40 hours 
per week you really only have about 2000 hours available.  That's $200,000.  
Now build just 100 units.  To break even, forgetting about pennies for the 
hardware you have to charge $2000 per unit.And that's assuming you can do 
everything you need in 2000 hours.

Just because someone builds at a few pennies above cost a product for $35. 
Doesn’t mean that the end product costs $37.95.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 10:10 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> You don't have to make nearly as many boards as that.
> 
> Here's a good example:
> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-OLinuXino/open-
> source-hardware
> 
> They don't make more than K's of them and they make a profit. In fact I
> could give them the schematics and PCB files and they would make them
> for a few $$ over cost.
> 
> On 6/13/19 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the
> production costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That won't
> happen for a LinuxCNC port.
> >
> > So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than
> just the LinuxCNC community.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> >>
> >> https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >>
> >> ~$100
> >>
> >> And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
> >> Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
> >> etc) if you do.
> >>
> >> Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
> >> $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
> >> STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.
> >>
> >> -Bari
> >>
> >> On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> >> LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
> >>> https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
> >>>
> >>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >>>
> >>> With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access
> to
> >> enough pins to do everything one needs.
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[Chris Albertson]

Not really.   I just had some PCBs made.  The cost for one-off
prototype assembly has plummeted to the point where it is reasonable
to make five at a time.   You don't need to sell 1,000 to get a good
price.

If this were a business the big cost is engineering.   You could sink
$50K into the design in just a couple months if you have to had to pay
for engineering time.   But for Open Source the biggest cost is gone.
 Companys have to charge $1K per board for small runs becuse they
divide the engineering cost over the number sold.  But if the
engineering is "DIY" then you pay only for manufacturing and those
Chinese robots work 24x7 and all they ask for is electricity.

I had some boards made recently and they send updates after every
process step.  It seems the company I dealt with gets about 80,000
orders per day (no typo, most of their customers are also in China and
China is huge) So they batch the orders up and send meter-square
sheets of material through a big machine and the last step is to cut
it apart and pack the parts into express mail packages.   It is all
automated and driven by design files that I give them.   They were
drilling holes and etching copper two hours after I paid and clicked
"OK and four hours after the parts were done I had a tracking number
for the shipment.   I paid less than $1 per board.

Yes, it used to cost a lot to have one or two made but now they have
learned how to batch together tens of thousands of customers and
process them all at once on the same machine.

That said.  I don't understand why anyone wants to run LinuxCNC on a
tiny processor board.   Why not use a "standard" Intel-based PC
Motherboard?  Any low-end cheap PC will run circles around a Raspberry
Pi or similar computer. What is the motivation of the small computer?
Is it cost?, Are you trying to save power?  None of that makes sense
if you connect this to a milling machine



On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:01 AM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the 
> production costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That won't 
> happen for a LinuxCNC port.
>
> So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than just 
> the LinuxCNC community.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> >
> > https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >
> > ~$100
> >
> > And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
> > Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
> > etc) if you do.
> >
> > Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
> > $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
> > STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.
> >
> > -Bari
> >
> > On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> > LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
> > > https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
> > >
> > > https://beagleboard.org/ai
> > >
> > > With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to
> > enough pins to do everything one needs.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

You don't have to make nearly as many boards as that.

Here's a good example:
https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A64/A64-OLinuXino/open-source-hardware

They don't make more than K's of them and they make a profit. In fact I
could give them the schematics and PCB files and they would make them
for a few $$ over cost.

On 6/13/19 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the 
> production costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That won't 
> happen for a LinuxCNC port.
>
> So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than just 
> the LinuxCNC community.
>
> John
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
>>
>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>>
>> ~$100
>>
>> And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
>> Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
>> etc) if you do.
>>
>> Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
>> $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
>> STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.
>>
>> -Bari
>>
>> On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
>> LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
>>> https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
>>>
>>> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>>>
>>> With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to
>> enough pins to do everything one needs.
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[John Dammeyer]

Yes but... you have to make a few 100 thousand at least to bring the production 
costs down.  And that requires a sizable investment.  That won't happen for a 
LinuxCNC port.

So you have to have the marketing infrastructure to sell it to more than just 
the LinuxCNC community.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: bari [mailto:bari00...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-19 9:33 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor
> 
> https://beagleboard.org/ai
> 
> ~$100
> 
> And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
> Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
> etc) if you do.
> 
> Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
> $6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
> STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.
> 
> -Bari
> 
> On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated
> LinuxCNC processor.  This may just be it.
> > https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
> >
> > https://beagleboard.org/ai
> >
> > With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to
> enough pins to do everything one needs.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

One might argue that this is a much better fit

i.MX 8

Reason #1: Not TI

Reason# 2

    Core Complex #1: 4x Cortex-A53
    Core Complex #2: 2x Cortex-A72
    2x Cortex-M4F for real time
    1x HIFI4 DSP

https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based-processors-and-mcus/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8-family-arm-cortex-a53-cortex-a72-virtualization-vision-3d-graphics-4k-video:i.MX8

Reason #3:
With Vivante GC7000VX with open 3d accel drivers

And if you need to expand you have PCIe and GB Ethernet + SPI for
coprocessors or FPGA's.

On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated LinuxCNC 
> processor.  This may just be it.
> https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
>
> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>
> With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to 
> enough pins to do everything one needs.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Processor

[bari]

https://beagleboard.org/ai

~$100

And once again, no open 3d accel drivers. Come on TI, use mali or
Vivante or open the drivers. The world will not end (sky fall, pigs fly,
etc) if you do.

Depending on my profit motives I can make a board now for less using a
$6 4-8 core ARM SOC with mali gpu (Allwinner, Rockchip) and a few
STM32's for stepping or a <$25 FPGA.

-Bari

On 6/13/19 11:15 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> We've been discussing various kinds of modules to make a dedicated LinuxCNC 
> processor.  This may just be it.
> https://beagleboard.org/blog/2019-05-16-beaglebone-ai-preview
>
> https://beagleboard.org/ai
>
> With 4 PRUs to deal with the hardware the biggest issue might be access to 
> enough pins to do everything one needs.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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