Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I did that ( Stuart) about an hour ago. BTW - He is not in the high rent district. Looks like mixed industrial and farm land. Try google earth. I drive 203 fairly often, will have to take a look next time I go by. I hope he is not on the flood plain. Dave On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 13:06 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > craig wrote: > > I emailed the toltmachineworks people > > and got a replys > > > > cc to them since they were looking didn't find info. > > > OOPS! My "He's NUTS" post was not meant to be seen by Craig! > Ah, well, that's the internet for you! He ought to get in touch with > Stuart, or at least be made aware of what Stuart is doing in Wichita. > > Jon > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
craig wrote: > I emailed the toltmachineworks people > and got a replys > > cc to them since they were looking didn't find info. > OOPS! My "He's NUTS" post was not meant to be seen by Craig! Ah, well, that's the internet for you! He ought to get in touch with Stuart, or at least be made aware of what Stuart is doing in Wichita. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Youda He wrote: > Just curious, what high end controller can do that EMC2 can't? is the > high end controller more tightly integrated? Faster? > They may have better setup and configuration programs than EMC. We have that now for stepper configurations, but not servo. Some of these controls have DSP processors that can close the servo loop at a higher rate, like tens of KHz. I'm not convinced this is really that important, but some late-model machines are made to machine at 100 IPM plus and do rapid feeds at 1000++ IPM. They usually have a complete package system, with power supply, servo amps, motors, CNC control, control panel and PLC for auxiliaries, and can pick and match required components for a particular machine installation. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Stuart Stevenson wrote: > I just get that vibe from this, there will be NO > > >> hobby-level >> stuff anywhere in the shop. >> >> except Windoze - except Windows is not even hobby level Well, the way the PC-based commercial control use it, Windows is just a file loader, all the real work is done in something equivalent to a Galil card. These controls are pretty reliable, getting rebooted only whenever there is a power outage. But, yeah, I'm no fan of M$ either. Windows 95 SURE runs stable on a virtual machine, though. ALMOST as good as Linux. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
>> I used to work with some Siemens software that ran on Windows RTX and it was very stable. Chrysler has several transmission assembly lines that are run via PCs. The software is based on Siemens soft S7 PLC software engine. Siemens MMI software runs on the same PC and hooks in the virtual PLC so it all runs on the same box.The PLC scan/loop time is in the 1 millisecond range which is fast enough for general machine control. For I/O the standard interface used to be Profibus, but I think that the current versions also support Profinet which is more or less Profibus over Ethernet. << And as an added bonus, it is vulnerable to the Stuxnet worm if WinCC is used as the MMI. :) See for example: http://www.debka.com/article/9050/ Regards, Eric -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I have a feeling that this guy is not as stupid as I originally thought. I realized that he tries to find equipment, that, essenstially, no one else has (like those giant CMMs), and do jobs that could not likely be replicated overseas due to shipping issues. -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
>>Hmm, I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. He's not doing this to recover his costs. He doesn't care about the money. If he doesn't care about the money, he is destined to fail. Unless he has Bill Gates covering his backside with $, the likelihood of this one guy opening a shop in Washington State and changing the industrial base of America is very unlikely. For his sake and his employees sake, I hope he has his feet a little more firmly planted on the ground. I'm familiar with the general scope of manufacturing base in the midwest as I used to sell industrial automation controls across most of it. Aerospace machining and EDM specialized services is a lot different than the traditional machine shop work being done in the typical midwest machine shop. The typical midwest machine shop serves local customers, mostly manufacturers, and the problem for them is that their customer base is simply going away. The manufacturers have either gone out of business due to foreign competition or else they have shrunk to the point where they have so much excess capacity that they simply don't need many outside services any longer. It only takes a drive through any of the industrial parks outside of any midwest city to see that the manufacturers are simply gone. In Livonia, on the outskirts of Detroit where I grew up, there is a stretch of industrial parks where literally every other building is vacant and for sale or lease. In many cases it is not that manufacturers moved their operations overseas, it is the case that the company that used to make "Widgets for Ford in Livonia etc" no longer exists, and the company now supplying the same widget is located in China. No amount of enticement is going to move those companies from China to the US. The Chinese gov won't allow it. They play by different rules. So the problem is bigger than just enticing the manufacturers to now buy services from the US instead of overseas. >>On the other hand, I don't work there anymore (and I use EMC) :-). Yikes ...Do your friends from MS still talk to you?? Is your name really Doug.. ;-) Dave On 9/28/2010 2:22 PM, doug metzler wrote: > Hmm, I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. He's not doing this to > recover his costs. He doesn't care about the money. He's doing this to try > to bring about the revival of the hard manufacturing base in the US. His > goal is not to build parts, his goal is to entice major manufacturers back > to the US by offering high-quality, highly skilled local machinists in local > shops. If this goes he may make a major contribution to the reversal of the > outsourcing trend (which actually is showing a few signs of reversal > already). > > I worked for MS for 15 years. I'm not completely sure it's productive to > dismiss completely the man's approach because of his current employer. > There are a lot of good smart people at MS who are trying to make a > difference outside those walls. > > On the other hand, I don't work there anymore (and I use EMC) :-). > > DougM > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Viesturs Lācis > wrote: > > >> 2010/9/28 Igor Chudov: >> >>> I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. >>> Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. >>> >> 2010/9/28 dave: >> >>> Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart >>> might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder >>> what he is smoking?? ;-) >>> >> The guy is from microsoft. That explains everything to me - both >> unrealistic approach and the serious cash amounts that are attracted >> to this venture. And that is also a reason, why I will not wonder, if >> the investment will never be recovered. >> >> Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I >> have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so >> the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) >> >> Well, I think that there is one thing that he has done properly - PR. >> Obviously, experience from his previous work, how to get high PR on a >> low product. >> >> /vie >> >> >> -- >> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances >> and start using them to simplify application deployment and >> accelerate your shift to cloud computing. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > __
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I get it I'm not much of a casino gambler as you can tell.. Dave On 9/29/2010 7:50 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/29 Andy Pugh: > >> On 29 September 2010 09:46, Viesturs Lācis wrote: >> >> Why do you call it the casino box?? >> >>> Because, IMHO it looks like that. The buttons and virtual LEDs have >>> blinging contours, personally I do not like that. >>> >> I suspect that what is being referred to is what is variously referred >> to in various cultures as a "slot machine", "fruit machine", >> "one-armed bandit" etc. >> >> http://www.fruitmachinesinfo.co.uk/land/bellfruitgames/deal-or-no-deal.html >> >> And now that Visteurs has pointed it out, I think he is exactly right. >> >> > Yeah, that is, what I meant, my apologies for bad wording. Andy, > pictures in that link are perfect in showing the idea. > > Viesturs > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Yep, Venturecom came out with Windows RTX running on Windows NT a long time ago. I think that same software package or company has been bought and sold now 2 or 3 times. Here it is... http://www.intervalzero.com/ About two years ago I inquired about the price per copy of Windows RTX running under Windows XP and they wouldn't give me a price via email, a distributor contacted me a few days later. I never did get a price but you can bet it was more than a few hundred bucks. I have heard it is in the $1000 plus range per copy for low volume users. I used to work with some Siemens software that ran on Windows RTX and it was very stable. Chrysler has several transmission assembly lines that are run via PCs. The software is based on Siemens soft S7 PLC software engine. Siemens MMI software runs on the same PC and hooks in the virtual PLC so it all runs on the same box.The PLC scan/loop time is in the 1 millisecond range which is fast enough for general machine control. For I/O the standard interface used to be Profibus, but I think that the current versions also support Profinet which is more or less Profibus over Ethernet. The application your run on Windows RTX has to be programmed specifically for Windows RTX, you can't just load Windows RTX, load up Mach3 and have Mach3 run in real time.Part of what IntervalZero sells is the development environment support for the OS, so you can use it with the typical Windows programming tools from Microsoft. Dave On 9/29/2010 8:21 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Viesturs > Lāciswrote: > > >> 2010/9/29 Dave: >> >> >>> Viesturs, >>> >>> >> That was meant to be a joke. >> But, if seriously, how do those win-based controllers achieve working >> in real-time? >> >> >I don't know about now but when MDSI went to windows only they used a RTOS > from VentureCom. It ran the Windows screen as an application on top of the > RTOS so even when the BSOD occurred you did not lose machine control (MDSI's > explanation). >I do have a Windows based control in my shop. It is a 2100 control on a > Cincinnati horizontal. You can see the Windows screen during boot. AFAIK > there have been no BSODs. We have had the machine about 2 years. I don't > know if it is the VentureCom RTOS or something else. > Stuart > > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I emailed the toltmachineworks people and got a replys cc to them since they were looking didn't find info. Craig Messge 1 - Hi Craig, I'll go take a look at the EMC site. Our schedule for the CMM is pretty aggressive but we really do have a top notch team working on thst and although we may miss our target date it won't slip by more than a few weeks. The Waldrich Siegen Unimach HBM is going to take many months just to clean up and erect, so we won't even get to start the retrofit until 6 months from now. I'll feel really good if we can get it up and running by the end of 2011. Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:17:10 -0700 From: contactusf...@officelive.com To: kaj...@toltmachineworks.com Subject: A message from craig kernan You have received the following message through the Contact Us form on your Microsoft Office Live Small Business Web site: From: craig kernan Phone: 360-802-0800 E-mail: cr...@cupcap.com Message: NOT A RFQ There have been a number of posts on the EMC (enhanced machine control) (open source machine control software) about your effort. You might find some of these posts interesting and possibly useful. Most posts think your schedule way to optomistic, some include reasons for thinking so. I'll forward a couple interesting ones to you if you'd like. I think the comments worth reading as many of these guys have extensive machine shop experience and just might save you some grief. My background is aerospace systems engineering and do some hobby work on a CNC router. Craig Kernan Enumclaw, WA This message has been automatically saved to the activity history for craig kernan. View this person's contact information and activity history: http://toltmachineworkscom.officelive.com/WebBCM/Lists/Contacts/DispForm.aspx?ID=100. --- Hi Craig, I haven't been able to find any posts on the sites I found: linuxCNC.org and cnczone.com/emc, are there other sites I've missed? If you would be so kind as to send a pointer, that would be great. Thanks, Jim form emc list: On 9/28/2010 10:38 AM, Igor Chudov wrote: > I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. > Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. > > i > > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >> dave wrote: >>> http://toltmachineworks.com/default.aspx >>> >>> should get you close. It has a Carnation address. >>> >> He's NUTS He is offering the machines for customer jobs at the end >> of October! >> The newspaper article indicates the machines are not even on the FLOOR, yet! >> Unless he has a commercial retrofitter come in with a team of 5 guys per >> machine, >> there is NO WAY he can have these machines just plain moving in that >> time - barely >> a month! And, in the aerospace biz, he needs to have the accuracy >> tested with the >> appropriate interferometric gear, and then do any fixups. Then, he >> probably needs >> to run some test parts and evaluate for a while to find out what works >> and what doesn't. >> I would think that before he puts $50,000 of aluminum or $500,000 of >> Titanium >> on the big mill and starts cutting, he needs to be sure he will make a >> part within >> the customer's tolerances. >> >> The idea of having machines that have been stored more than a decade in >> a collapsing >> potato shed and then offering them for commercial aerospace work in less >> than a month >> is way beyond laughable! There will be so much wrong with these >> machines that will >> need careful study and correction, the gathering of often odd and hard >> to obtain repair >> parts, etc. >> >> Jon >> >> -- >> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances >> and start using them to simplify application deployment and >> accelerate your shift to cloud computing. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to si
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/29 Dave : > > > Viesturs, > > > That was meant to be a joke. > But, if seriously, how do those win-based controllers achieve working > in real-time? > I don't know about now but when MDSI went to windows only they used a RTOS from VentureCom. It ran the Windows screen as an application on top of the RTOS so even when the BSOD occurred you did not lose machine control (MDSI's explanation). I do have a Windows based control in my shop. It is a 2100 control on a Cincinnati horizontal. You can see the Windows screen during boot. AFAIK there have been no BSODs. We have had the machine about 2 years. I don't know if it is the VentureCom RTOS or something else. Stuart -- dos centavos -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
2010/9/29 Andy Pugh : > On 29 September 2010 09:46, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > >>> Why do you call it the casino box?? > >> Because, IMHO it looks like that. The buttons and virtual LEDs have >> blinging contours, personally I do not like that. > > I suspect that what is being referred to is what is variously referred > to in various cultures as a "slot machine", "fruit machine", > "one-armed bandit" etc. > > http://www.fruitmachinesinfo.co.uk/land/bellfruitgames/deal-or-no-deal.html > > And now that Visteurs has pointed it out, I think he is exactly right. > Yeah, that is, what I meant, my apologies for bad wording. Andy, pictures in that link are perfect in showing the idea. Viesturs -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
On 29 September 2010 09:46, Viesturs Lācis wrote: >> Why do you call it the casino box?? > Because, IMHO it looks like that. The buttons and virtual LEDs have > blinging contours, personally I do not like that. I suspect that what is being referred to is what is variously referred to in various cultures as a "slot machine", "fruit machine", "one-armed bandit" etc. http://www.fruitmachinesinfo.co.uk/land/bellfruitgames/deal-or-no-deal.html And now that Visteurs has pointed it out, I think he is exactly right. -- atp -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
On Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:46:55 +0300, you wrote: >2010/9/29 Dave : >> Viesturs, >> >> OK... I have to ask... >> >> ??>>>so the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) >> >> Why do you call it the casino box?? >> >> I've never heard that before. > >Because, IMHO it looks like that. The buttons and virtual LEDs have >blinging contours, personally I do not like that. And I know couple >more guys, who have chosen EMC2 over Mach3, basically because of the >GUI. GUI is personal thing - I don't like EMC's or Mach's default mill screens. Mach has dozens of user made screensets and a program for doing your own screens easily, unlike EMC. >But, if seriously, how do those win-based controllers achieve working >in real-time? Ask Fanuc :) Steve Blackmore -- -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
2010/9/28 doug metzler : > Hmm, I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. He's not doing this to > recover his costs. He doesn't care about the money. He's doing this to try > to bring about the revival of the hard manufacturing base in the US. His > goal is not to build parts, his goal is to entice major manufacturers back > to the US by offering high-quality, highly skilled local machinists in local > shops. If this goes he may make a major contribution to the reversal of the > outsourcing trend (which actually is showing a few signs of reversal > already). Well, technically, he also is offering machining services as an outsourced partner. But, if I understand You correctly, the goal is to the job inside the US, opposite to current situation that jobs are outsourced to partners outside the US. The idea is very nice, and there are several points of BUT: 1) existing providers of the outsourced machining service might have objective reasons for a cost advantage - starting from cheaper labor to cheaper premises, electricity etc 2) existing providers might be closer equipment manufacturer and get their machinery cheaper thus also contributing to cost advantage 3) they might be closer to material sources 4) there must be other reasons for cost advantages These things can be dealt and one can overcome them, I just think that somebody else might already have done that. You are saying that there are trends that support this, I think we just have to wait and see, how it turns out. Actually, I find this case very interesting from business point of view :) Would love to hear/read more Viesturs -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
2010/9/29 Dave : > Viesturs, > > OK... I have to ask... > > >>>so the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) > > Why do you call it the casino box?? > > I've never heard that before. Because, IMHO it looks like that. The buttons and virtual LEDs have blinging contours, personally I do not like that. And I know couple more guys, who have chosen EMC2 over Mach3, basically because of the GUI. 2010/9/29 Jon Elson : > Viesturs Lācis wrote: >> Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I >> have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so >> the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) >> > No way! There may be Windows under the hood, but more likely Fanuc or some > other high-end control, with a major controls rep doing the install, for > $50K per > machine, minimum. That was meant to be a joke. But, if seriously, how do those win-based controllers achieve working in real-time? 2010/9/28 doug metzler : > Hmm, I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. He's not doing this to > recover his costs. He doesn't care about the money. He's doing this to try > to bring about the revival of the hard manufacturing base in the US. His > goal is not to build parts, his goal is to entice major manufacturers back > to the US by offering high-quality, highly skilled local machinists in local > shops. If this goes he may make a major contribution to the reversal of the > outsourcing trend (which actually is showing a few signs of reversal > already). > > I worked for MS for 15 years. I'm not completely sure it's productive to > dismiss completely the man's approach because of his current employer. > There are a lot of good smart people at MS who are trying to make a > difference outside those walls. That also was meant like a joke. I never meant it as an offence to anybody. That guy has all my respect for having a vision and a goal for his venture something more than just earning more bucks, but also provide benefit to other companies, indirectly - also to his competitors. I like to think that my company also has such a goal. But, since I have recently graduated MBA, I have been made to believe that any company should be able to break even and provide positive cash flow to recover the investment (not necessarily being profitable), otherwise it is called "charity". And I think that keeping to live unprofitable company is not the best implementation of charity. Viesturs -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Just curious, what high end controller can do that EMC2 can't? is the high end controller more tightly integrated? Faster? -- Youda On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > Viesturs Lācis wrote: >> Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I >> have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so >> the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) >> > No way! There may be Windows under the hood, but more likely Fanuc or some > other high-end control, with a major controls rep doing the install, for > $50K per > machine, minimum. I just get that vibe from this, there will be NO > hobby-level > stuff anywhere in the shop. > > Jon > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I just get that vibe from this, there will be NO > hobby-level > stuff anywhere in the shop. > > except Windoze - except Windows is not even hobby level -- dos centavos -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Viesturs Lācis wrote: > Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I > have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so > the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) > No way! There may be Windows under the hood, but more likely Fanuc or some other high-end control, with a major controls rep doing the install, for $50K per machine, minimum. I just get that vibe from this, there will be NO hobby-level stuff anywhere in the shop. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
dave wrote: > Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart > might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder > what he is smoking?? ;-) > > If the Snoqualamie pass isn't too nasty I'll probably go over for the > open house in Nov. Should be interesting. > We'll be waiting for your report! > Just qualifying that CMM should be an adventure in itself. Wilson > Aerospace bought a CMM at Boeing auction; a 50 footer ... got it for > $100K and spent a cool mil getting it set up and calibrated. They are > now broke. > Well, if you buy your own interferometer, it really isn't that expensive. If you have to rent one with the tech to run it, it can add up quickly. Depending on the level of accuracy they require, it may not require the most advanced interferometer to set it up. At the level this guy is spending, he may well have a Faro laser tracker. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Gentle persons: The penultimate line from the article Przemek referenced in his original post reads '"Any fool can go out and buy machinery," Kajiya says.' My wife would agree. On the other hand, knowing of some of this guy's contributions to computer-generated graphics and reading about his time at Evans and Sutherland followed by 15 years on the faculty at CalTech, I also would not dismiss him out of hand. Swinging for a home run is definitely not my style (I'm lucky if I can get on base by being hit by a pitch) but you can't deny that sometimes it succeeds. People like him have a habit of attracting others who are also high achievers. What's really intriguing to me is his allusion to "some new physics as well as new information technologies." Is he talking about machining or measuring, I wonder, when he says "physics"? Regards, Kent -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Viesturs, OK... I have to ask... >>>so the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) Why do you call it the casino box?? I've never heard that before. Dave On 9/28/2010 2:08 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/28 Igor Chudov: > >> I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. >> Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. >> > 2010/9/28 dave: > >> Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart >> might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder >> what he is smoking?? ;-) >> > The guy is from microsoft. That explains everything to me - both > unrealistic approach and the serious cash amounts that are attracted > to this venture. And that is also a reason, why I will not wonder, if > the investment will never be recovered. > > Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I > have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so > the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) > > Well, I think that there is one thing that he has done properly - PR. > Obviously, experience from his previous work, how to get high PR on a > low product. > > /vie > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
On 9/28/2010 4:01 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > Gentlemen, >I certainly wish him the best success. He has published some lofty goals. > Whatever we can do to help him is the order of the day. With his resources > and talk I am sure he is past the investigation stage and maybe too late to > have EMC2 in his evaluation. >His vision is something like mine. I would like to see EMC2 as the central > software in a total shop manufacturing solution. E(very) M(achine) C(ontrol) > Stuart > > He certainly has his work cut out for him. Sounds like he has bitten off an awful lot. I hope he has enough capital to pull that off and get into the black. Won't he need good shop temperature control to maintain accuracy on that huge CMM? Dave -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Gentlemen, I certainly wish him the best success. He has published some lofty goals. Whatever we can do to help him is the order of the day. With his resources and talk I am sure he is past the investigation stage and maybe too late to have EMC2 in his evaluation. His vision is something like mine. I would like to see EMC2 as the central software in a total shop manufacturing solution. E(very) M(achine) C(ontrol) Stuart -- dos centavos -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
On 28 September 2010 19:08, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I > have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so > the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) I wouldn't be so sure. One thing about working at Microsoft, you are used to being able to get under the bonnet (hood) of the software. I think I once got an Apache error screen at a microsoft.com URL. -- atp -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Independent inspection/QC is where the rubber meets the road. ;-) Dave On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 21:08 +0300, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/28 Igor Chudov : > > I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. > > Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. > > 2010/9/28 dave : > > Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart > > might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder > > what he is smoking?? ;-) > > The guy is from microsoft. That explains everything to me - both > unrealistic approach and the serious cash amounts that are attracted > to this venture. And that is also a reason, why I will not wonder, if > the investment will never be recovered. > > Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I > have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so > the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) > > Well, I think that there is one thing that he has done properly - PR. > Obviously, experience from his previous work, how to get high PR on a > low product. > > /vie > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Hmm, I think you're not seeing the bigger picture. He's not doing this to recover his costs. He doesn't care about the money. He's doing this to try to bring about the revival of the hard manufacturing base in the US. His goal is not to build parts, his goal is to entice major manufacturers back to the US by offering high-quality, highly skilled local machinists in local shops. If this goes he may make a major contribution to the reversal of the outsourcing trend (which actually is showing a few signs of reversal already). I worked for MS for 15 years. I'm not completely sure it's productive to dismiss completely the man's approach because of his current employer. There are a lot of good smart people at MS who are trying to make a difference outside those walls. On the other hand, I don't work there anymore (and I use EMC) :-). DougM On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: > 2010/9/28 Igor Chudov : > > I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. > > Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. > > 2010/9/28 dave : > > Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart > > might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder > > what he is smoking?? ;-) > > The guy is from microsoft. That explains everything to me - both > unrealistic approach and the serious cash amounts that are attracted > to this venture. And that is also a reason, why I will not wonder, if > the investment will never be recovered. > > Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I > have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so > the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) > > Well, I think that there is one thing that he has done properly - PR. > Obviously, experience from his previous work, how to get high PR on a > low product. > > /vie > > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
2010/9/28 Igor Chudov : > I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. > Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. 2010/9/28 dave : > Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart > might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder > what he is smoking?? ;-) The guy is from microsoft. That explains everything to me - both unrealistic approach and the serious cash amounts that are attracted to this venture. And that is also a reason, why I will not wonder, if the investment will never be recovered. Przemek suggested that somebody should introduce that guy to EMC. I have a personal belief that he will not give up on using Windows, so the casino box - Mach3 - is his most likely choice :)) Well, I think that there is one thing that he has done properly - PR. Obviously, experience from his previous work, how to get high PR on a low product. /vie -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
Well, he seems to have $$ to burn but doing a reality check with Stuart might be helpful. Apparently he has sunk 5 to 10 E 6 into it. Wonder what he is smoking?? ;-) If the Snoqualamie pass isn't too nasty I'll probably go over for the open house in Nov. Should be interesting. Just qualifying that CMM should be an adventure in itself. Wilson Aerospace bought a CMM at Boeing auction; a 50 footer ... got it for $100K and spent a cool mil getting it set up and calibrated. They are now broke. Maybe the wire edm and electron-beam welder are ready to go. Who knows. Dave On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 12:32 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > dave wrote: > > http://toltmachineworks.com/default.aspx > > > > should get you close. It has a Carnation address. > > > He's NUTS He is offering the machines for customer jobs at the end > of October! > The newspaper article indicates the machines are not even on the FLOOR, yet! > Unless he has a commercial retrofitter come in with a team of 5 guys per > machine, > there is NO WAY he can have these machines just plain moving in that > time - barely > a month! And, in the aerospace biz, he needs to have the accuracy > tested with the > appropriate interferometric gear, and then do any fixups. Then, he > probably needs > to run some test parts and evaluate for a while to find out what works > and what doesn't. > I would think that before he puts $50,000 of aluminum or $500,000 of > Titanium > on the big mill and starts cutting, he needs to be sure he will make a > part within > the customer's tolerances. > > The idea of having machines that have been stored more than a decade in > a collapsing > potato shed and then offering them for commercial aerospace work in less > than a month > is way beyond laughable! There will be so much wrong with these > machines that will > need careful study and correction, the gathering of often odd and hard > to obtain repair > parts, etc. > > Jon > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I agree with Jon, the guy is so optimistic that it is ridiculous. Especially since he has not even started retrofitting the controls. i On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > dave wrote: >> http://toltmachineworks.com/default.aspx >> >> should get you close. It has a Carnation address. >> > He's NUTS He is offering the machines for customer jobs at the end > of October! > The newspaper article indicates the machines are not even on the FLOOR, yet! > Unless he has a commercial retrofitter come in with a team of 5 guys per > machine, > there is NO WAY he can have these machines just plain moving in that > time - barely > a month! And, in the aerospace biz, he needs to have the accuracy > tested with the > appropriate interferometric gear, and then do any fixups. Then, he > probably needs > to run some test parts and evaluate for a while to find out what works > and what doesn't. > I would think that before he puts $50,000 of aluminum or $500,000 of > Titanium > on the big mill and starts cutting, he needs to be sure he will make a > part within > the customer's tolerances. > > The idea of having machines that have been stored more than a decade in > a collapsing > potato shed and then offering them for commercial aerospace work in less > than a month > is way beyond laughable! There will be so much wrong with these > machines that will > need careful study and correction, the gathering of often odd and hard > to obtain repair > parts, etc. > > Jon > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
dave wrote: > http://toltmachineworks.com/default.aspx > > should get you close. It has a Carnation address. > He's NUTS He is offering the machines for customer jobs at the end of October! The newspaper article indicates the machines are not even on the FLOOR, yet! Unless he has a commercial retrofitter come in with a team of 5 guys per machine, there is NO WAY he can have these machines just plain moving in that time - barely a month! And, in the aerospace biz, he needs to have the accuracy tested with the appropriate interferometric gear, and then do any fixups. Then, he probably needs to run some test parts and evaluate for a while to find out what works and what doesn't. I would think that before he puts $50,000 of aluminum or $500,000 of Titanium on the big mill and starts cutting, he needs to be sure he will make a part within the customer's tolerances. The idea of having machines that have been stored more than a decade in a collapsing potato shed and then offering them for commercial aerospace work in less than a month is way beyond laughable! There will be so much wrong with these machines that will need careful study and correction, the gathering of often odd and hard to obtain repair parts, etc. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
http://toltmachineworks.com/default.aspx should get you close. It has a Carnation address. On Mon, 2010-09-27 at 22:01 -0700, doug metzler wrote: > I live in Bellevue - I'll check in and let you know :-) > > DougM > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Przemek Klosowski < > przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I wonder how this will go down. A senior Microsoft engineer with a > > metalworking hobby opens > > a machine shop near Redmond: > > > > > > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sundaybuzz/2012981363_sundaybuzz26.html > > > > Can someone from the Northwest help him retrofit with EMC ? :) > > > > -- > > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Old Iron in Redmond
I live in Bellevue - I'll check in and let you know :-) DougM On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Przemek Klosowski < przemek.klosow...@gmail.com> wrote: > I wonder how this will go down. A senior Microsoft engineer with a > metalworking hobby opens > a machine shop near Redmond: > > > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sundaybuzz/2012981363_sundaybuzz26.html > > Can someone from the Northwest help him retrofit with EMC ? :) > > -- > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
