subject:"Re\: \[Emc\-users\] Retrofit Candidate\?"

Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-18 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/18/2020 06:08 PM, Bari wrote:

On 7/18/20 5:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote:




It would be hard to do anything like this with a Delta 
scheme, as the errors stack up.




Why I asked.

Well, the Quad IV C has a gantry with 1 um glass scales on 
it, apparently.  The Quad QSA-30
has shaft encoders with high resolution, I don't know what 
the resolution is, but I'm guessing it works out to
better than 25 um, for sure.  And, there is no angle to 
linear conversion required.  These machines have very 
limited Z movement, but a LOT of X-Y movement, somewhere 
around a meter or more, to reach all the feeders.  Also, the 
machine moves a head that must weigh 20 kg, at least, at 
several m/s, back and forth, from feeders to the board being 
stuffed.  It has to provide placement accuracy of better 
than 0.1mm over this entire range of motion.


I just don't see how a delta machine could do this, without 
it being incredibly large.  I just can't imagine a delta 
machine that can cover a 1 x 1 meter area, and do it rapidly 
with a heavy head and great precision.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-18 Thread Bari


On 7/18/20 5:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote:




It would be hard to do anything like this with a Delta scheme, as the 
errors stack up.




Why I asked.


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-18 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/18/2020 04:06 PM, Bari wrote:

On 7/16/20 9:45 AM, Jon Elson wrote:





An auction of electronic assembly gear just closed in 
Austin, TX yesterday.  I got a VERY nice pick and place 
machine for $500, the starting bid.  Only one other 
machine sold.  I was amazed!



Have you come across any delta robots used for PCB 
assembly on your auction searches?
The commercial machines are all XY gantry systems, and of 
massively heavy construction.
This Quad QSA-30A weighs 2250 Lbs and the maker somewhat 
optimistically rates it at 17000
components/hour.  It is supposed to place components with a 
3 Sigma repeatability of 0.1 mm.
The vision system is mounted on the head and measures the 
alignment of the parts on the three nozzles while the head 
moves over the board.


It would be hard to do anything like this with a Delta 
scheme, as the errors stack up.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-18 Thread N

> > An auction of electronic assembly gear just closed in Austin, TX 
> > yesterday.  I got a VERY nice pick and place machine for $500, the 
> > starting bid.  Only one other machine sold.  I was amazed!

Have one i garage bought for similar price, however no place for car anymore.


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-18 Thread Bari


On 7/16/20 9:45 AM, Jon Elson wrote:





An auction of electronic assembly gear just closed in Austin, TX 
yesterday.  I got a VERY nice pick and place machine for $500, the 
starting bid.  Only one other machine sold.  I was amazed!



Have you come across any delta robots used for PCB assembly on your 
auction searches?



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate? --> Standard components

2020-07-17 Thread John Dammeyer

The HP_UHU uses an 8 bit ATMEL processor and discrete transistors.  There's an 
upgraded dsPIC module that plugs in place of it to handle higher res encoders 
and higher step rates but otherwise works pretty well the same.  I have those 
on the XY axis with 90V DC brushed servos.

The US Digital encoders tended to have noise that resulted in the motors 
returning to home plus a bit, or minus a bit.  The processor reported encoder 
pulse discrepancies.   The dsPIC module handles the encoder in hardware and 
appears to work better but still had issues with the 10 year old US Digital.  
Changing to CUI encoders and programming them for the same 250 PPR to match the 
US Digital has made the two axis very reliable and because they are servos, 
very quiet.

The down side of all this automation is that over the years now I have a spare 
2HP single phase motor from the broken compressor.  A 1HP single phase (really 
big) motor from the South Bend Heavy 10L that was replaced with a 3 phase 220 
VAC 1HP motor with VFD.  And now I have this heavy cast iron 2HP single phase 
motor that used to sit on top of the mill now sporting a Bergerda 1.8kW AC 
Servo.

The small home made Gingery Lathe has a 1HP sealed motor I bought since the 
induction fan motors I bought didn't work that well.  I have a few of those 
too.  Not sure what to do with them.  And there are some DC Treadmill motors 
that just need encoders.  Although the brush configuration is for single 
direction.  

Maybe I should build the Gingery Mill and Shaper so I have somewhere to use 
those motors.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-17-20 12:15 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate? --> Standard components
> 
> Made a few inverter cards myself and chose standard TO220/TO247 instead of 
> some kind of module. There are thousands to
> choose from in different kind of voltages up to 1.2kV and currents up to 
> around 100A, also different kinds MOSFET/IGBT/SiC/GaN
> there choice to some degree depend on voltage.
> 
> > That's a point in favor for discreet components and standard ICs over 
> > special/custom ICs. Very little worry about having to alter a
> design or things becoming unfixable due to a fancy chip being discontinued.
> > I forget how many $K I was quoted from a manufacturer to pop out one new 
> > late 90's vintage 120VDC servo amp, but still
> amazing that every component (or close enough) was still available. But it 
> was less expensive to buy three big steppers more
> powerful than the old servos, and the drivers and power supplies for less 
> than the cost of one vintage servo amp copy.
> >
> > On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:21:52 AM MDT, John Dammeyer 
> >  wrote:
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: July-15-20 10:03 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> > >
> > > John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?
> > >
> > As far as I know they are still testing with now discrete transistors 
> > instead of the driver pack that was discontinued shortly after
> they produced it.  I have 3 of the STMBL drives and a couple of spare part 
> drivers.  One STMBL on the spindle and I was thinking
> replacing the HP_UHUs for the two brushed DC Servos.  However, couldn't get 
> rid of the whine so went back to the HP_UHU.
> >
> > But then I've also got 2 extra HP_UHU drives that are partially assembled.  
> > And now a two US Digital encoders that were replaced
> with CUI that work better.
> > And then there's the extra Shumatech DRO-350 kit still in the box and the 
> > two DRO-550 of which I only assembled one but
> haven't used yet.
> >
> > Oh and the 400W Bergerda AC servo.  Ran the X axis really nice but nowhere 
> > to mount the drive in the present cabinet.
> >
> > Oh the list goes on
> >
> > Cheers
> > John
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate? --> Standard components

2020-07-17 Thread N

Made a few inverter cards myself and chose standard TO220/TO247 instead of some 
kind of module. There are thousands to choose from in different kind of 
voltages up to 1.2kV and currents up to around 100A, also different kinds 
MOSFET/IGBT/SiC/GaN there choice to some degree depend on voltage.

> That's a point in favor for discreet components and standard ICs over 
> special/custom ICs. Very little worry about having to alter a design or 
> things becoming unfixable due to a fancy chip being discontinued. 
> I forget how many $K I was quoted from a manufacturer to pop out one new late 
> 90's vintage 120VDC servo amp, but still amazing that every component (or 
> close enough) was still available. But it was less expensive to buy three big 
> steppers more powerful than the old servos, and the drivers and power 
> supplies for less than the cost of one vintage servo amp copy.
> 
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:21:52 AM MDT, John Dammeyer 
>  wrote:  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-15-20 10:03 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> > 
> > John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?
> > 
> As far as I know they are still testing with now discrete transistors instead 
> of the driver pack that was discontinued shortly after they produced it.  I 
> have 3 of the STMBL drives and a couple of spare part drivers.  One STMBL on 
> the spindle and I was thinking replacing the HP_UHUs for the two brushed DC 
> Servos.  However, couldn't get rid of the whine so went back to the HP_UHU.  
>  
> But then I've also got 2 extra HP_UHU drives that are partially assembled.  
> And now a two US Digital encoders that were replaced with CUI that work 
> better.
> And then there's the extra Shumatech DRO-350 kit still in the box and the two 
> DRO-550 of which I only assembled one but haven't used yet.
> 
> Oh and the 400W Bergerda AC servo.  Ran the X axis really nice but nowhere to 
> mount the drive in the present cabinet.
> 
> Oh the list goes on
> 
> Cheers
> John  
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users

That's a point in favor for discreet components and standard ICs over 
special/custom ICs. Very little worry about having to alter a design or things 
becoming unfixable due to a fancy chip being discontinued. 
I forget how many $K I was quoted from a manufacturer to pop out one new late 
90's vintage 120VDC servo amp, but still amazing that every component (or close 
enough) was still available. But it was less expensive to buy three big 
steppers more powerful than the old servos, and the drivers and power supplies 
for less than the cost of one vintage servo amp copy.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 12:21:52 AM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 10:03 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?
> 
As far as I know they are still testing with now discrete transistors instead 
of the driver pack that was discontinued shortly after they produced it.  I 
have 3 of the STMBL drives and a couple of spare part drivers.  One STMBL on 
the spindle and I was thinking replacing the HP_UHUs for the two brushed DC 
Servos.  However, couldn't get rid of the whine so went back to the HP_UHU.  

But then I've also got 2 extra HP_UHU drives that are partially assembled.  And 
now a two US Digital encoders that were replaced with CUI that work better.
And then there's the extra Shumatech DRO-350 kit still in the box and the two 
DRO-550 of which I only assembled one but haven't used yet.

Oh and the 400W Bergerda AC servo.  Ran the X axis really nice but nowhere to 
mount the drive in the present cabinet.

Oh the list goes on

Cheers
John  
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Scott Harwell via Emc-users

 I don't know why the link didn't come through. See "samcoinc" YouTube or this 
sight.
Scott

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, 2:54:52 PM CDT, Stuart Stevenson 
 wrote:  
 
 The blue Cincinnati at MPM with LinuxCNC had a nameplate electric
requirement of 125 amps @ 480. We measured it frequently for a while after
we first got it. I never saw it draw more than 15 amps. Just because the
plate says it has to have X amount of electric service doesn't mean it will
pull that much while running. The full amount is calculated by adding the
maximum wattage of every electric device on the machine. It will never come
near to drawing that much during use.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:08 PM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>  This is the same control the Yaskawa drives may be newer. Matsuura
> linuxcnc conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Matsuura linuxcnc conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up
>
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
> Sam has done this.
>
>  It looks clean and you do want the head blocked to avoid drift in
> shipping and real damage.
> Scott H
>
>
>
>
>    On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 7:18:20 PM CDT, Todd Zuercher <
> to...@pgrahamdunn.com> wrote:
>
>  But the Mori is only an hour drive away (vs 2 states away.)
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bari 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:29 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.
>
> There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are
> running.
>
> On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> > -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good
> > reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good
> > price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Stuart Stevenson

The blue Cincinnati at MPM with LinuxCNC had a nameplate electric
requirement of 125 amps @ 480. We measured it frequently for a while after
we first got it. I never saw it draw more than 15 amps. Just because the
plate says it has to have X amount of electric service doesn't mean it will
pull that much while running. The full amount is calculated by adding the
maximum wattage of every electric device on the machine. It will never come
near to drawing that much during use.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:08 PM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>  This is the same control the Yaskawa drives may be newer. Matsuura
> linuxcnc conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Matsuura linuxcnc conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up
>
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
> Sam has done this.
>
>  It looks clean and you do want the head blocked to avoid drift in
> shipping and real damage.
> Scott H
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 7:18:20 PM CDT, Todd Zuercher <
> to...@pgrahamdunn.com> wrote:
>
>  But the Mori is only an hour drive away (vs 2 states away.)
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Bari 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:29 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.
>
> There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are
> running.
>
> On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> > -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good
> > reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good
> > price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Scott Harwell via Emc-users

 This is the same control the Yaskawa drives may be newer. Matsuura linuxcnc 
conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Matsuura linuxcnc conversion.. axis moving, spindle hooked up


 |

 |

 |

Sam has done this.

 It looks clean and you do want the head blocked to avoid drift in shipping and 
real damage.
Scott H




On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 7:18:20 PM CDT, Todd Zuercher 
 wrote:  
 
 But the Mori is only an hour drive away (vs 2 states away.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Bari  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:29 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.

There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are running.

On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good 
> reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good 
> price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread andy pugh

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 13:35, Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> For those who couldn't open the original link the same machine is also 
> advertised on Ebay (but at a higher price on the seller's home site it is 
> $2500).

For $10,000 I would have to think long and hard. For $2500, if I had
the space, it would already have followed me home :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/16/2020 07:19 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

No it doesn't' have a Fanuc control, it is a Yaznac with all Yaskawa drives and 
motors.


Excellent!  Yaskawa makes documentation on older products 
available.  There's a good chance it uses analog velocity 
commands (+/- 10 V).  If so, all the drives could be re-used.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/16/2020 12:39 AM, Bari wrote:



The pandemic has killed lots of businesses. 1 out of 4 
businesses near me are closing for good. I expect to see 
deals for the next year at least on just about everything.


An auction of electronic assembly gear just closed in 
Austin, TX yesterday.  I got a VERY nice pick and place 
machine for $500, the starting bid.  Only one other machine 
sold.  I was amazed!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/15/2020 11:32 PM, Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

Some of those large, high-end Japanese names have temperature sensors installed 
throughout the frame, which they use to compensate for thermal expansion.


I doubt this machine has that, but it does look like it has 
a spindle cooler hanging on the back.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Todd Zuercher

For those who couldn't open the original link the same machine is also 
advertised on Ebay (but at a higher price on the seller's home site it is 
$2500).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MORI-SEIKI-MV45-40-MORI-SEIKI-MV45-40-CNC-VMC-18-x-47-0120091/264623167442?hash=item3d9cc517d2:g:svEAAOSwh~peOZde

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 6:01 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 21:11, Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> -CNC-VMC/0120091/

How weird:
"Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator."

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Todd Zuercher

No it doesn't' have a Fanuc control, it is a Yaznac with all Yaskawa drives and 
motors.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Jon Elson  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 5:46 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On 07/15/2020 03:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good 
> reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good 
> price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.
>
>
Well, it has a Fanuc control.  The servo amps are pretty proprietary, although 
Mesa may have a way to interface with them. Pico Systems (that's me) can 
convert the Fanuc serial encoders to look like ordinary quadrature encoders 
with commutation.  Assuming it has Fanuc red cap motors, they are very good.  
The tool changer is always the most difficult part.  Also, if the tool changer 
is hydraulic, that can be a nightmare, as well as power-hungry and noisy.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread N

> On Thursday 16 July 2020 01:39:04 Bari wrote:
> 
> > On 7/16/20 12:18 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because
> > > the drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs
> > > to be subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some
> > > pretty bad table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something
> > > has to be damaged and deemed non-repairable.
> >
> > There is another Mori on that site for even less
> >
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv40-C
> >NC-VMC/0120092/
> >
> 
> And its even hungrier at 35 kw.
> 
> > The pandemic has killed lots of businesses. 1 out of 4 businesses near
> > me are closing for good. I expect to see deals for the next year at
> > least on just about everything.
> 
> There is that effect too.  Weeding out the machines that aren't earning 
> their electric billing.

That's certainly a problem if/then I want to run att full power connections to 
elecric grid will cost more than machines and that's before any periodic fee.


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread John Dammeyer



> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 10:03 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?
> 
As far as I know they are still testing with now discrete transistors instead 
of the driver pack that was discontinued shortly after they produced it.  I 
have 3 of the STMBL drives and a couple of spare part drivers.  One STMBL on 
the spindle and I was thinking replacing the HP_UHUs for the two brushed DC 
Servos.  However, couldn't get rid of the whine so went back to the HP_UHU.  
 
But then I've also got 2 extra HP_UHU drives that are partially assembled.  And 
now a two US Digital encoders that were replaced with CUI that work better.
And then there's the extra Shumatech DRO-350 kit still in the box and the two 
DRO-550 of which I only assembled one but haven't used yet.

Oh and the 400W Bergerda AC servo.  Ran the X axis really nice but nowhere to 
mount the drive in the present cabinet.

Oh the list goes on

Cheers
John

> Regards
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 1:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
> > You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
> > a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
> > squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
> > solved.
> >
> > Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
> > retrofit those motors nicely.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> > >
> > > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> > > heidenhain lol.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > > >
> > > >
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > > > good reasons to buy it?)
> > > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
> > late
> > > > 1980s.
> > > >
> > > > Todd Zuercher
> > > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
> > > > 630 Henry Street
> > > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-16 Thread Gene Heskett

On Thursday 16 July 2020 01:39:04 Bari wrote:

> On 7/16/20 12:18 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because
> > the drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs
> > to be subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some
> > pretty bad table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something
> > has to be damaged and deemed non-repairable.
>
> There is another Mori on that site for even less
>
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv40-C
>NC-VMC/0120092/
>

And its even hungrier at 35 kw.

> The pandemic has killed lots of businesses. 1 out of 4 businesses near
> me are closing for good. I expect to see deals for the next year at
> least on just about everything.

There is that effect too.  Weeding out the machines that aren't earning 
their electric billing. 
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Bari


On 7/16/20 12:18 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:



But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because the
drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs to be
subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some pretty bad
table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something has to be damaged
and deemed non-repairable.


There is another Mori on that site for even less

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv40-CNC-VMC/0120092/

The pandemic has killed lots of businesses. 1 out of 4 businesses near 
me are closing for good. I expect to see deals for the next year at 
least on just about everything.





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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Gene Heskett

On Wednesday 15 July 2020 16:15:23 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:08:52 +
> > From: Todd Zuercher 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit
> > Candidate?
> >
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc
> > retrofit?
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv45
> >40-CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good
> > reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good
> > price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Wow! that looks really clean for a machine of that age...
> Not even any visible table divots
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because the 
drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs to be 
subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some pretty bad 
table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something has to be damaged 
and deemed non-repairable.
>
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread andrew beck

John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?

Regards

Andrew

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 1:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
> solved.
>
> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
> retrofit those motors nicely.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> >
> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> > heidenhain lol.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > >
> > >
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > > good reasons to buy it?)
> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
> late
> > > 1980s.
> > >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Thaddeus Waldner

Some of those large, high-end Japanese names have temperature sensors installed 
throughout the frame, which they use to compensate for thermal expansion. 

Curious if anyone has ever done that with LinuxCNC?

Steel thermal expansion coefficient is around 6 parts per million per degree 
Fahrenheit, which would come to roughly 3 tho on a 2-foot part with a 20°F 
temperature swing. The frame on a production machine gets quite warm, as all 
those KWs have to go somewhere...

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:52 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> On 07/15/2020 09:03 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
>> Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.
>> 
>> 
> Ahh, more complicated than I thought.  Some models had Fanuc, but I did not 
> recognize that control panel.
> I don't know Yasnac, but they may be less proprietary than Fanuc, which are 
> pretty legendary in that regard.  It might be easier to re-use the servo amps 
> and spindle drive, then.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/15/2020 09:03 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.


Ahh, more complicated than I thought.  Some models had 
Fanuc, but I did not recognize that control panel.
I don't know Yasnac, but they may be less proprietary than 
Fanuc, which are pretty legendary in that regard.  It might 
be easier to re-use the servo amps and spindle drive, then.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/15/2020 08:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.  You 
end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need a bigger 
one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the squeal problem 
from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly solved.


That's a SERIOUSLY large machine!  Various units may have 
different spindle motors, but at least one was 10 Hp.  
Probably several HP axis motors.  Note the nameplate shows a 
29 KVA load!


Jon




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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Stuart Stevenson

A good photographer can use lighting to wash out dirt and stains. It may
not look as clean when you are standing beside it.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:03 PM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 8:54 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
>> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
>> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
>> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
>> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
>> solved.
>>
>> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
>> retrofit those motors nicely.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
>> >
>> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so
>> is
>> > heidenhain lol.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
>> > >
>> > >
>> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
>> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it?
>> (Or
>> > > good reasons to buy it?)
>> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
>> late
>> > > 1980s.
>> > >
>> > > Todd Zuercher
>> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
>> > > 630 Henry Street
>> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
>> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Emc-users mailing list
>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> > >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>>
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Stuart Stevenson

Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 8:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
> solved.
>
> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
> retrofit those motors nicely.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> >
> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> > heidenhain lol.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > >
> > >
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > > good reasons to buy it?)
> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
> late
> > > 1980s.
> > >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread John Dammeyer

For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.  You 
end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need a bigger 
one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the squeal problem 
from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly solved.

Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might retrofit 
those motors nicely.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> heidenhain lol.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> >
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > good reasons to buy it?)
> > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late
> > 1980s.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread andrew beck

Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
heidenhain lol.

Regards

Andrew

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
>
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> good reasons to buy it?)
> Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late
> 1980s.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Todd Zuercher

But the Mori is only an hour drive away (vs 2 states away.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Bari  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:29 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.

There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are running.

On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good 
> reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good 
> price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread John Dammeyer



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 3:01 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 21:11, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> 
> How weird:
> "Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator."

Andy you would just start drooling and want to add yet another machine into 
your shop.  Probably best you can't see it.
John
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread andy pugh

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 21:11, Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/

How weird:
"Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator."

-- 
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"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Jon Elson


On 07/15/2020 03:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.


Well, it has a Fanuc control.  The servo amps are pretty 
proprietary, although Mesa may have a way to interface with 
them. Pico Systems (that's me) can convert the Fanuc serial 
encoders to look like
ordinary quadrature encoders with commutation.  Assuming it 
has Fanuc red cap motors, they are very good.  The tool 
changer is always the most difficult part.  Also, if the 
tool changer is hydraulic, that can be a nightmare, as well 
as power-hungry and noisy.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread John Dammeyer

Wow!  Weighs in at 18,750 lbs.  Requires 29,000 KVA from 3 phase.  I'd love to 
have something like that but I suspect my shop floor would crack.  I'm lucky 
that I have a pole with 3 wires so I could pay huge to get 3 phase installed.  
But my converted car port ceiling is probably too low.

Still enough to drool over.  What a fun project that would be.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 1:09 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
> reasons to buy it?)
> Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 
> 1980s.
> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Bari


Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.

There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are 
running.


On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

2020-07-15 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:08:52 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

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Wow! that looks really clean for a machine of that age...
Not even any visible table divots

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-02 Thread Stuart Stevenson

I agree this is not an auction but the listing says starting price is
USD500.00. That suggests and auction. I asked to be informed of the
seller's intent.
This seems a reasonable price for a machine like this if the owner's desire
is to dispose of this quick and has no use for the box of tooling.
Seems to me the owner has second thoughts of getting rid of the machine.
This is always the owners choice. It would be nice for the owner to remove
the listing or respond to the questions from the site. There may be
extenuating circumstances eg health, accident... that prevent response.
Keep watching and see if something happens.
This is a sweet deal - IMHO. One person's junk is the next person's
treasure. :)



On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 7/1/2013 11:21 AM, Dave wrote:
  It isn't actually an auction as it is on Craigslist..
 
  Charles said they did not respond to him.  So I sent them an email
  also and did not receive a response either.
 
  http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

 Yeah, not much of a scam if they don't tell you where to send your
 deposit to hold the machine!  :)

 ...unless they're just harvesting e-mail addresses, but I gave up
 trying to keep mine secret ages ago.  :-/

 - --
 Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

 iEYEARECAAYFAlHRrtUACgkQLywbqEHdNFyLvQCfRf+OAVg3W/whecb9NmMYCdFS
 VS8AoJ5w6X9OUx9U17Sv7ZvJvG6hi7Rp
 =44Hm
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-02 Thread Dave

A lot of the people that post stuff on Craigslist are incredibly lazy 
regarding the postings.
I bet that a 3rd of the inquiries I make on items for sale never get a 
reply, even for more expensive items like $5000 trailers etc.

The postings are free so they seem to think that they can ignore the 
listings as desired..  Either that or they simply don't have any sales 
acumen.

The guys on Ebay are paying for the ability to post adds so they tend to 
be much more responsive.

Regarding scams on Craigslist ... there was someone or a group that was 
consistently posting the same Airstream Travel trailer over and over 
again across the country.
The same exact trailer was in about 20 locations around the US at the 
same time..  Even after it was flagged as a scam several times, the same 
trailer kept popping up again and again.

The trailer (if it existed) was worth in the $25K range and they were 
selling it for $6000 or so...  not unlike the Bobcat scams.

If you want to search Craigslist over a larger area than one city try 
SearchTempest.comIt works ok.

Dave

On 7/2/2013 8:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 I agree this is not an auction but the listing says starting price is
 USD500.00. That suggests and auction. I asked to be informed of the
 seller's intent.
 This seems a reasonable price for a machine like this if the owner's desire
 is to dispose of this quick and has no use for the box of tooling.
 Seems to me the owner has second thoughts of getting rid of the machine.
 This is always the owners choice. It would be nice for the owner to remove
 the listing or respond to the questions from the site. There may be
 extenuating circumstances eg health, accident... that prevent response.
 Keep watching and see if something happens.
 This is a sweet deal - IMHO. One person's junk is the next person's
 treasure. :)



 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net  wrote:


 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 7/1/2013 11:21 AM, Dave wrote:
  
 It isn't actually an auction as it is on Craigslist..

 Charles said they did not respond to him.  So I sent them an email
 also and did not receive a response either.

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

 Yeah, not much of a scam if they don't tell you where to send your
 deposit to hold the machine!  :)

 ...unless they're just harvesting e-mail addresses, but I gave up
 trying to keep mine secret ages ago.  :-/

 - --
 Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

 iEYEARECAAYFAlHRrtUACgkQLywbqEHdNFyLvQCfRf+OAVg3W/whecb9NmMYCdFS
 VS8AoJ5w6X9OUx9U17Sv7ZvJvG6hi7Rp
 =44Hm
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread John Thornton

The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the nut 
gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works great 
and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I know 
nothing about.

JT

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
 craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
 one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
 stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything).  :(

 I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
 this point I'm not holding my breath.

 On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
 I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
 and it is nice.
 Just in case, see Quick-Change (not Quick-Switch) here:
 http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

 My mill appears to have the same head, but uses NMTB 40 tools with a
 power draw bar. My take on some of the chatter I've seen on forums is
 that when the Quick-xxx nuts get worn, tools are hard to lock and can
 fall out in dramatic fashion.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the table
with the knee handle


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the nut
 gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works great
 and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I know
 nothing about.

 JT

 On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
  On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
  craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
  one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
  stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything).  :(
 
  I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
  this point I'm not holding my breath.
 
  On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
  I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
  and it is nice.
  Just in case, see Quick-Change (not Quick-Switch) here:
  http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
 
  My mill appears to have the same head, but uses NMTB 40 tools with a
  power draw bar. My take on some of the chatter I've seen on forums is
  that when the Quick-xxx nuts get worn, tools are hard to lock and can
  fall out in dramatic fashion.
 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681
 



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

 upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the table
 with the knee handle


 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the nut
 gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works great
 and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I know
 nothing about.

 JT

 On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
  On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
  craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
  one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
  stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything).  :(
 
  I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
  this point I'm not holding my breath.
 
  On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
  I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
  and it is nice.
  Just in case, see Quick-Change (not Quick-Switch) here:
  http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
 
  My mill appears to have the same head, but uses NMTB 40 tools with a
  power draw bar. My take on some of the chatter I've seen on forums is
  that when the Quick-xxx nuts get worn, tools are hard to lock and can
  fall out in dramatic fashion.
 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681
 



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/84955046?src=pla008=-99007=Searchpcrid=25122952264006=25122952264005=53306267824004=7506871264002=2167139mkwid=smTSbiWNycid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_smTSbiWNy_PLA__25122952264_c_S026=nv025=c

guys
take a gander at this link

this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.comwrote:

upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the
table with the knee handle

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the nut
gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works great
and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I know
nothing about.

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything). :(

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
I didn't notice that. I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
and it is nice.
Just in case, see Quick-Change (not Quick-Switch) here:
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

My mill appears to have the same head, but uses NMTB 40 tools with a
power draw bar. My take on some of the chatter I've seen on forums is
that when the Quick-xxx nuts get worn, tools are hard to lock and can
fall out in dramatic fashion.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

with a quik switch system :)

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

guys
take a gander at this link

this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.comwrote:

I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.comwrote:

upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the
table with the knee handle

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Eric Keller

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

 this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

quite possible it's just a scam.  Sure, it's not a bobcat for $3000,
but it's pretty tempting for some people

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

How would the scam work?


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote:

 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

 quite possible it's just a scam.  Sure, it's not a bobcat for $3000,
 but it's pretty tempting for some people


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread John Thornton

What auction? That is a link to MSC...

On 7/1/2013 7:39 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/84955046?src=pla008=-99007=Searchpcrid=25122952264006=25122952264005=53306267824004=7506871264002=2167139mkwid=smTSbiWNycid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_smTSbiWNy_PLA__25122952264_c_S026=nv025=c

guys
take a gander at this link

this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.comwrote:

upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the
table with the knee handle

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Stuart Stevenson

the craigslist listing says the price is the starting price

the msc link is to compare the price of one tool adapter to the box shown
in the listing

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:17 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

What auction? That is a link to MSC...

On 7/1/2013 7:39 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

guys
take a gander at this link

this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
wrote:

I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
wrote:

upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the
table with the knee handle

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com
wrote:

The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the
nut
gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works
great
and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I
know
nothing about.

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread John Thornton

I must have missed the link to the auction...

Thanks
JT

On 7/1/2013 8:25 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
the craigslist listing says the price is the starting price

the msc link is to compare the price of one tool adapter to the box shown
in the listing

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:17 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

What auction? That is a link to MSC...

this auction could possibly be a good buy for someone

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
wrote:
I sent an email asking the terms of this auction.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
wrote:
upon further inspection I see the tool change spanner sitting on the
table with the knee handle

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 5:45 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com
wrote:
The Kwik-Switch tooling is held on with a spring loaded nut and the
nut
gets tighter the more force you put on the tool. This system works
great
and should not be confused with other quick switch systems which I
know
nothing about.

On 6/30/2013 5:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread andy pugh

On 1 July 2013 14:17, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
 What auction? That is a link to MSC...

I think that the point is that the $500 starting price is a bargain
just for 2 of the tool holders.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Eric Keller

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:
 How would the scam work?

I am not exactly sure how the scam works, but I suspect you give them
money for something that only exists in pictures because they stole
the picture from somewhere else.  That's how it works with cheap cars
and bobcats. From what I can tell there are at least a few machine
tool scammers out there.

If you want to find out more about it, search for bobcat craigslist
scam without the quotes.  There are a couple of sad stories out
there.  This mill would be an unbelievable deal, even for someone who
wanted to sell the tooling on ebay and scrap out the mill.  Alarm
bells should be ringing.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread andy pugh

On 1 July 2013 15:15, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote:

 This mill would be an unbelievable deal,

I don't think it is that unbelievable, if the owner thinks it is
broken and wants the space.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Dave

On 7/1/2013 10:27 AM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 1 July 2013 15:15, Eric Kellereekel...@psu.edu  wrote:


 This mill would be an unbelievable deal,
  
 I don't think it is that unbelievable, if the owner thinks it is
 broken and wants the space.


$500 is about scrap value.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Dave

It isn't actually an auction as it is on Craigslist..

Charles said they did not respond to him.  So I sent them an email also 
and did not receive a response either.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-07-01 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 7/1/2013 11:21 AM, Dave wrote:
 It isn't actually an auction as it is on Craigslist..
 
 Charles said they did not respond to him.  So I sent them an email
 also and did not receive a response either.
 
 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

Yeah, not much of a scam if they don't tell you where to send your
deposit to hold the machine!  :)

...unless they're just harvesting e-mail addresses, but I gave up
trying to keep mine secret ages ago.  :-/

- -- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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VS8AoJ5w6X9OUx9U17Sv7ZvJvG6hi7Rp
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-30 Thread Steve Stallings

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Radek [mailto:ch...@timeguy.com] 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:08 AM
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:18:06PM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1

  Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
  hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that 
 might make
  a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local 
 craigslist:

snip

 I notice there's no tool release button marked on
 the panel.  I would really NOT want a manual drawbar on a CNC,
 especially if the top of the head's 8 feet in the air.

Really late response here... but that looks like
Erikson Quick Change 40 taper tooling. Manual change
only, but everything happens at the bottom end of the
spindle, not the top.

Steve Stallings

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-30 Thread Dave

I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II and 
it is nice.

Did anyone on the list buy that mill?

Charles??:-)

Dave Cole

On 6/30/2013 12:43 PM, Steve Stallings wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Radek [mailto:ch...@timeguy.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:08 AM
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:18:06PM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that

 might make
  
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local

 craigslist:
  

 snip


 I notice there's no tool release button marked on
 the panel.  I would really NOT want a manual drawbar on a CNC,
 especially if the top of the head's 8 feet in the air.

  
 Really late response here... but that looks like
 Erikson Quick Change 40 taper tooling. Manual change
 only, but everything happens at the bottom end of the
 spindle, not the top.

 Steve Stallings


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-30 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything).  :(

I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
this point I'm not holding my breath.

On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
 I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
 and it is nice.
 
 Did anyone on the list buy that mill?
 
 Charles??:-)
 
 Dave Cole
 
 On 6/30/2013 12:43 PM, Steve Stallings wrote:
 -Original Message- From: Chris Radek
 [mailto:ch...@timeguy.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:08
 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re:
 [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice
 
 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:18:06PM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler
 wrote:
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
 
 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying
 to get a hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC
 mill that
 
 might make
 
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local
 
 craigslist:
 
 
 snip
 
 
 I notice there's no tool release button marked on the panel.  I
 would really NOT want a manual drawbar on a CNC, especially if
 the top of the head's 8 feet in the air.
 
 
 Really late response here... but that looks like Erikson Quick
 Change 40 taper tooling. Manual change only, but everything
 happens at the bottom end of the spindle, not the top.
 
 Steve Stallings
 
 
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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-30 Thread Kirk Wallace

On 06/30/2013 02:34 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I'd love to buy it, but there is no actual contact info in the
 craigslist posting, I have received no response to e-mail to the
 one-off craigslist e-mail address, and all identifying meta-data was
 stripped from the jpeg photos (so no GPS or anything).  :(

 I'm still somewhat hoping to get an e-mail out of the blue, but at
 this point I'm not holding my breath.

 On 6/30/2013 4:24 PM, Dave wrote:
 I didn't notice that.  I have an Erikson QC 30 on my Bridgeport II
 and it is nice.

Just in case, see Quick-Change (not Quick-Switch) here:
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

My mill appears to have the same head, but uses NMTB 40 tools with a 
power draw bar. My take on some of the chatter I've seen on forums is 
that when the Quick-xxx nuts get worn, tools are hard to lock and can 
fall out in dramatic fashion.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330945298681

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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-26 Thread Gregg Eshelman

On Tue, 6/25/13, Karl Schmidt k...@xtronics.com wrote:

 Once on the ground, realize the need for a door and ceiling
 that are wide and high enough.  There is 
 a trick of using lots of round hardwood dowels - and kicking
 them to steer. Safety is important in 
 moving these beasts.
  

 Karl Schmidt

Put the table all the way down to get the center of gravity as low as possible. 
Since it's a fixed head style you can't turn the head sideways or upside down 
to help with that like can be done with Bridgeports and similar turret mills.

If you can rent a machinery moving trailer, that'll be the easiest way to load 
and unload. They're special trailers where the entire bed lowers to the ground, 
leaving the deck only a few inches above ground.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-26 Thread Gregg Eshelman

On Tue, 6/25/13, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:

 Then I used some rented machine mover skates to position it in its final 
 place.

Right now I have a 17x78 LeBlond Regal lathe on four Harbor Freight car 
dollies. Moves pretty easily on a concrete floor.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-26 Thread Erik Christiansen

On 26.06.13 00:44, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
 On Tue, 6/25/13, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Then I used some rented machine mover skates to position it in its final 
  place.
 
 Right now I have a 17x78 LeBlond Regal lathe on four Harbor Freight
 car dollies. Moves pretty easily on a concrete floor.

That's twice the between-centres length of my 3/4 tonne lathe, which was
easy to deliver. A Manitou (telehandler) brought it down our single-lane
street, and up the gravel drive (rising 10 metres in 50, with a 150°
curve in the middle), then pulled up in front of the garage door and
extended the boom to deposit the lathe half way to the back of the
garage. The last six feet were accomplished with a crowbar with a 12mm
thick x 75mm wide x 200mm slightly curved flat welded on the end. Its
bevelled end¹ was pushed under the pallet, then levered up, moving the
machine a third of a foot each time. It took about 5 minutes to place in
exactly the right spot.

The 800 kilo mill came on a small truck with boom, and rollers did make
it much easier (but a bit scary) to move into place. (Had to raise the
roller-door 50mm to avoid the need to pull the motor off the top.)

Maybe I should move out to the farm before buying anything bigger. It's
flat out there.

Erik

¹ Damages the concrete less than a square edge.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Dave Caroline

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html


I look at that as some castings with some free stuff added
if any of the free stuff works, bonus

the box of tooling is even better

while not fitted with a tool changer so you will have to baby sit it
but you could make a toolchange for it

If I had the money and was close by I would consider it.

Dave Carline

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Dave

That is likely a good candidate for a conversion.

I'd grab it now! Make an appt..  take some cash.

That should fit onto a tandem axle car trailer as it is probably about 
5000 lbs.

Scrap iron is going for a little over $200/ton in Indiana so $500 is 
about scrap price.

On those deals, if you snooze you lose.   I recently missed two CNC 
mills by a couple of hours.

Make sure you can fit it someplace height wise.  A wrecker with a 
hydraulic boom can oftentimes unload a mill like that.

Have a couple of straps handy.  Harbor Freight sells 6000 lb rated straps.

Some pipe rollers and wrecking/pinch bars can get it into your garage.

Just a warning ... heavy iron is addictive..  :-)

Dave Cole

On 6/24/2013 11:18 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

 Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good candidate for
 conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I actually
 go to inspect and/or buy it?

 Thanks!

 - -- 
 Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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 hP4AniPArIxoWSKaRdb4hGyif/pFHcO5
 =r2eg
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Stuart Stevenson

Looks very much like the DahLih here. This should be a very nice candidate.
The asking price does not even cover the tool holders.
A simple simple retrofit.
Get it and have fun.
It will certainly have some provision for tool change other than a step
ladder. I suspect the twist knob with the shiny area above it to the tool
change switch.
On Jun 25, 2013 6:46 AM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 That is likely a good candidate for a conversion.

 I'd grab it now! Make an appt..  take some cash.

 That should fit onto a tandem axle car trailer as it is probably about
 5000 lbs.

 Scrap iron is going for a little over $200/ton in Indiana so $500 is
 about scrap price.

 On those deals, if you snooze you lose.   I recently missed two CNC
 mills by a couple of hours.

 Make sure you can fit it someplace height wise.  A wrecker with a
 hydraulic boom can oftentimes unload a mill like that.

 Have a couple of straps handy.  Harbor Freight sells 6000 lb rated straps.

 Some pipe rollers and wrecking/pinch bars can get it into your garage.

 Just a warning ... heavy iron is addictive..  :-)

 Dave Cole

 On 6/24/2013 11:18 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
  hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
  a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:
 
  http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
  Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good candidate for
  conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I actually
  go to inspect and/or buy it?
 
  Thanks!
 
  - --
  Charles Steinkuehler
  char...@steinkuehler.net
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
 
  iEYEARECAAYFAlHJC+4ACgkQLywbqEHdNFxArACdFyP5QBDVG4LhRLLOg2uQ4AGa
  hP4AniPArIxoWSKaRdb4hGyif/pFHcO5
  =r2eg
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Jon Elson

Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

 Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good candidate for
 conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I actually
 go to inspect and/or buy it?
   
Looks fairly good.  Appears it may have SEM motors, which are quite good.
Appears to have 5 travel on the quill, which is a limitation, but same as
a Bridgeport.  Lots of toolholders, which are more valuable than the
mill.  If the ways and ballscrews are in good shape, grab it.  It would be
good to see it under power, you can detect some problems by listening.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread BRIAN GLACKIN

Notice the comment

Starting bid is $500

CL usually popoos those.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
  hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
  a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:
 
  http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
  Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good candidate for
  conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I actually
  go to inspect and/or buy it?
 
 Looks fairly good.  Appears it may have SEM motors, which are quite good.
 Appears to have 5 travel on the quill, which is a limitation, but same as
 a Bridgeport.  Lots of toolholders, which are more valuable than the
 mill.  If the ways and ballscrews are in good shape, grab it.  It would be
 good to see it under power, you can detect some problems by listening.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Karl Schmidt

On 06/24/2013 10:18 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html

hmmm it is worth $500 just if they load it for you! ... often you can get the 
serial number and 
contact the company. They may know a lot about the particular machine. ( Wells 
Index knew everything 
about the one I picked up).

Key things would be the condition of the spindle bearings, was it used to cut 
Au or steel? 
Lubrication system? Is the company still in business? ( but often they are in 
fine shape only the 
electronics died!).

It appears that machines can be had for less than scrap price - they are not 
fun to move.

Moving these beasts is best with a forklift - you will need to rent one to take 
it off the truck.

Once on the ground, realize the need for a door and ceiling that are wide and 
high enough.  There is 
a trick of using lots of round hardwood dowels - and kicking them to steer. 
Safety is important in 
moving these beasts.




Karl Schmidt  EMail k...@xtronics.com
Transtronics, Inc.  WEB 
http://secure.transtronics.com
3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089
Lawrence, KS 66049  FAX (785) 841-0434

Truth is mighty and will prevail.
There is nothing wrong with this,
except that it ain't so.
--Mark Twain



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread dave

On Tue, 2013-06-25 at 18:48 -0500, Karl Schmidt wrote:
 On 06/24/2013 10:18 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
  hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
  a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:
 
  http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
 hmmm it is worth $500 just if they load it for you! ... often you can get the 
 serial number and 
 contact the company. They may know a lot about the particular machine. ( 
 Wells Index knew everything 
 about the one I picked up).
 
 Key things would be the condition of the spindle bearings, was it used to cut 
 Au or steel? 
Gee! I'd sure like to meet the guy rich enough to machine Au. ;-)


 Lubrication system? Is the company still in business? ( but often they are in 
 fine shape only the 
 electronics died!).
 
 It appears that machines can be had for less than scrap price - they are not 
 fun to move.
Yep! Renting a 15,000 lb forklift is not cheap. I got by for $500 but
that was some years ago. I had a real deal for up to 8000 lb but the
price went up 10X to go to 15,000. 
 
 Moving these beasts is best with a forklift - you will need to rent one to 
 take it off the truck.
 
 Once on the ground, realize the need for a door and ceiling that are wide and 
 high enough.  There is 
 a trick of using lots of round hardwood dowels - and kicking them to steer. 
 Safety is important in 
 moving these beasts.
I  bought a stick of 1.5 bar and cut into 30 sections for rollers. Put
a couple of 6x6 sq tubular under the machine and away we went. 

Dave
 
 
 
 
 Karl Schmidt  EMail k...@xtronics.com
 Transtronics, Inc.  WEB 
 http://secure.transtronics.com
 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089
 Lawrence, KS 66049  FAX (785) 841-0434
 
 Truth is mighty and will prevail.
 There is nothing wrong with this,
 except that it ain't so.
 --Mark Twain
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Pete Matos

Honestly if the machine is not too far away your best bet is to call your
local rollback wrecker companies. They routinely make in town moves of
large equipment that they can just drag up onto the flatbed and away you
go. That is how I moved my Cincinatti Arrow 500 into my shop. Hell he could
even jog the bed and use the flat tow ram to drag the machine off the bed
in such a way that he could ALMOST put it exactly where I wanted it.  We
had an overhead issue that kept him from getting it fully inside the
building but he tried and only charged me $150.00 to move it.  Then I used
some rented machine mover skates to position it in its final place.  Some
companies don't want to mess with mills and stuff but many do. Just tell
them when and where and what exactly it is maybe even send them a picture
of it and get the most accurate weight of the thing and they will let you
know. It works great for them too because they can schedule it at their
leisure unlike a car wreck which often has to be right now.  As far as the
dowels on the floor. I moved a 4500 lb large lathe with myself and my wife
and a come a long on some 1 diameter black iron pipe pretty easily.  Just
be careful of any grades it can get away from you quick. The nice thing
about the small diameter pipes is that IF it happens to roll off the pipe
it usually is not high enough to cause a tip over just keep your digits out
from underneath it at all times. The mills are quite tall and can be scary
to move if you are not familiar with moving larger heavier items so be real
careful. That is why I suggest the rollback guys, they move all sorts of
stuff all the time and know what the hell they are doing. The guy who moved
my VMC made it look pretty damn easy.  It did take a larger truck tho due
to the 7k+ weight.  Good luck man. Peace


Pete




On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:23 PM, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

 On Tue, 2013-06-25 at 18:48 -0500, Karl Schmidt wrote:
  On 06/24/2013 10:18 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
   Hash: SHA1
  
   Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
   hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
   a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:
  
   http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
  hmmm it is worth $500 just if they load it for you! ... often you can
 get the serial number and
  contact the company. They may know a lot about the particular machine. (
 Wells Index knew everything
  about the one I picked up).
 
  Key things would be the condition of the spindle bearings, was it used
 to cut Au or steel?
 Gee! I'd sure like to meet the guy rich enough to machine Au. ;-)


  Lubrication system? Is the company still in business? ( but often they
 are in fine shape only the
  electronics died!).
 
  It appears that machines can be had for less than scrap price - they are
 not fun to move.
 Yep! Renting a 15,000 lb forklift is not cheap. I got by for $500 but
 that was some years ago. I had a real deal for up to 8000 lb but the
 price went up 10X to go to 15,000.
 
  Moving these beasts is best with a forklift - you will need to rent one
 to take it off the truck.
 
  Once on the ground, realize the need for a door and ceiling that are
 wide and high enough.  There is
  a trick of using lots of round hardwood dowels - and kicking them to
 steer. Safety is important in
  moving these beasts.
 I  bought a stick of 1.5 bar and cut into 30 sections for rollers. Put
 a couple of 6x6 sq tubular under the machine and away we went.

 Dave
 
 
 
 
 
  Karl Schmidt  EMail k...@xtronics.com
  Transtronics, Inc.  WEB
 http://secure.transtronics.com
  3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089
  Lawrence, KS 66049  FAX (785) 841-0434
 
  Truth is mighty and will prevail.
  There is nothing wrong with this,
  except that it ain't so.
  --Mark Twain
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread andy pugh

On 26 June 2013 02:45, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:
  I moved a 4500 lb large lathe with myself and my wife
 and a come a long on some 1 diameter black iron pipe pretty easily.

The last few machines that my Dad and I have moved we haven't even
bothered with rollers, just dragged them across the floor with a
chain-pull. Less chance of getting out of control that way, and they
do slide more easily than you might expect.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-25 Thread Pete Matos

Andy,
   Agreed, and the less height and the less you have to maneuver the beast
the better off you are gonna be that much is clear. If you have a slab that
is nice and level and smooth you can probably do that pretty easy. If he
has the rollback move the machine to his shop and then gets it unloaded
onto the floor they can push it in with that flat tow ram coming out the
back. The one on the truck that moved my cincinatti arrow 500 was able to
travel quite a distance.  I had carefully lifted my machine before I moved
it onto some long 4x4s and bolted them on thru the same large bolt holes
that the leveling pods screw down under and made essentially some heavy
duty skids. Once he set it down in the doorway to the shop he pushed it as
far as he could and then retracted the ram and used another piece of 4x4 to
push it the same ram distance into the shop. I only had to move it another
five or six feet into position.

Pete



On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:58 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 26 June 2013 02:45, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:
   I moved a 4500 lb large lathe with myself and my wife
  and a come a long on some 1 diameter black iron pipe pretty easily.

 The last few machines that my Dad and I have moved we haven't even
 bothered with rollers, just dragged them across the floor with a
 chain-pull. Less chance of getting out of control that way, and they
 do slide more easily than you might expect.

 --
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-24 Thread Chris Radek

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:18:06PM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Besides my 3D printing endeavors, I am involved with trying to get a
 hackerspace going here in Topeka.  Recently a CNC mill that might make
 a good LinuxCNC retrofit candidate popped up on the local craigslist:
 
 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
 Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good candidate for
 conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I actually
 go to inspect and/or buy it?
 
 Thanks!


If you can find wiring diagrams you can determine a lot about
whether it's a good candidate for conversion.  A 1991 machine will
probably have velocity mode amps with tachs, and LED-based encoders.
So no real problem there.  I'm guessing it's 40 taper - I would
rather have a CAT spindle with retention knobs but those NST (NMTB?)
aren't rare or anything.

Mostly, good candidate means its drives and motors and encoders all
work, and it's not mechanically worn out.  If you take your
indicators with you and it's under power and operable you'll know
all that in short order.  If it's not under power and you can't
convince them to plug it in (I bet you $1 that's what you'll
encounter here) you can tell a BIT about wear by pushing and pulling
the table (compare readings in the center of travel to readings at
the ends of travel) and by turning screws by hand (you'll feel and
see any backlash).

Something about the machine looks familiar.  I think it might be the
same base model as Stuart's Dah-Lih.  If so, there are power drawbar
parts missing.  I notice there's no tool release button marked on
the panel.  I would really NOT want a manual drawbar on a CNC,
especially if the top of the head's 8 feet in the air.

(If your hackspace has 8 foot ceilings, take a tape measure with
you!)

This machine has a heavy knee and I notice there's no motor on it.
That may or may not be a big pain depending on your work and
tooling.

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate Advice

2013-06-24 Thread Gregg Eshelman

On Mon, 6/24/13, Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/3892182813.html
 
 Can anyone advise if this looks like it would be a good
 candidate for conversion to LinuxCNC, and what I should watch out for if I
 actually go to inspect and/or buy it?
 
 Thanks!

Machines that're already CNC ought to be easier to retrofit than manual 
machines, even if you take off all the original controls and motors. No motor 
mounts to build, no redundant parts to remove or modify. You have that giant 
box stuffed with old equipment, which the new electronics will use a fraction 
of. If the existing system works, you can peddle it on eBay - but don't get 
crazy on the prices. There aren't that many super desperate shops willing to 
pay *any price* for an old board to get a mission critical 25+ year old machine 
back in action. (However, I did get a good price out of a pair of 15+ year old 
compumotor 500 boxes. I didn't start them as a stupid high price.)

If you can snag that for $500 - think of it as getting a huge head start and 
saving a lot of cash. It's a large machine and will take up quite a chunk of 
space, but I bet it'll be a while before you want to do a project that'll have 
you wishing it was just a bit bigger. ;-)

People who don't know about software like LinuxCNC or don't have the skill or 
willingness to apply themselves to a retrofit or who just want to (and have the 
money to) buy a plug and play machine just see old CNC machines as old junk.

Then there's those affordable retrofit systems that start at only $7,000 - 
why spend $7K on an old machine when that will go much of the way toward an all 
new one? A machine shop or manufacturing plant needs a machine in production 
ASAP and many are willing to go into a bit of debt rather than refurbish and 
upgrade - and owe nothing on it.

I've had people tell me it'd take $10,000 to fix up a mid 80's CNC Bridgeport 
clone and all I'd have is a crappy old junk mill. They don't know scrounge-fu 
or the power of eBay and Craisgslist or just spending a bunch of time scouring 
the web until the right parts are found at the right prices. ;-)

You pay fright and installation, we will load on truck. Yeah, fright is right 
when it comes to what trucking companies want to charge for shipping machine 
tools!

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