Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Chris Albertson]

My favorite stupid export story was a made-in-China computer that could not
be exported back to China.  We actually had one of these at work.

But I think those days are long gone.  Most of these stories are from the
1980s



On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 5:26 PM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> I had to sign DOD papers to be able to import a Fanuc 15MB control. It is a
> submarine control. 28 axis capable. (What I was told). (not really sure
> what the truth is).
>
> If the company moves the machine to another address or sells the machine
> the DOD is to be notified.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 10:54 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday 25 September 2021 09:50:31 John Figie wrote:
> >
> > > Actually the US export regulation is 600 hz. I worked in servo drive
> > > development.
> > >
> > Thanks for the update John.
> >
> > In a roundabout way, that does seem to indicate that what Todd needs is
> > going to be American made, accompanied by scary permit paperwork, and
> > because of its limited use experience to fix common problems, not as
> > dependable as we are used to.
> >
> > Among other things is the frozen technology. One of my sons /was/ working
> > in a shop that repairs electronic stuff from nuclear power facilities.
> > All of that tech is frozen at 1960ish tech levels, making it illegal to
> > use a more modern, thousands of times more dependable semiconductor
> > device to repair them. With all the environmental tests such repairs
> > must pass, makes replacing a shorted 1n34 diode, which I could do for a
> > few cents and my time, into a 10 to 50 thousand dollar job with 50% of
> > that being the world wide search for an original part. You can't replace
> > a a half watt rated 5 cent in 1962  carbon composition resistor with a 6
> > month lifetime, with a 10 cent metal film fireproof version rated at 2
> > watts that barring mechanical destruction, would still be in tolerance
> > when our star goes nova in its death throes billions of years hence. All
> > because its type approved stuff and that would cancel the type approval.
> > All the bill payers involved are non-technical and will say it worked
> > that way once, make it work that way again with original parts only.
> >
> > I first ran into that in dealing with the military in 1961, working for a
> > contractor who had a contract to maintain the portal door cameras at the
> > Titan missle sites wrapped around EAFB at the time. Complaint was the
> > camera was just barely working, and there were no spares. So I went out
> > and got it, brought it back to EAFB and found a germainium diode, used
> > as a back porch clamp switch had about a 10/1 front to back ratio. A
> > very poor choice for such duties so I replaced it with a similar but si
> > diode that was at least a million times better device for the job. Best
> > picture I'd seen out of any of those 3 cameras in the previous year. But
> > somebody, processing the payment discovered the part wasn't original and
> > decreed that only original parts could be used. The fact that the camera
> > now worked better than new was of zero interest, so they had the parts
> > crib in the MAMS building find an original part (that took several
> > months) and I had to put it in when they finally got it. In the meantime
> > of course, the air force had to delegate a crew of mp rated flaps to
> > guard the portal door (it was a revolving door that was designed to
> > withstand a 500 feet above 50 megaton blast, and was 2 or 3 flights of
> > stairs underground, probably weighed 10,000 lbs), because the camera
> > wasn't to be re-installed until it had the original part in it.
> >
> > All of which was assinine from my point of view. But at that time I
> > didn't even have a 1st phone, which I fixed shortly afterwards, then saw
> > the comm college in Norfolk NE, (Johnny Carsen's home town) was doing
> > C.E.T. testing a few years later so I walked in the door, laid a $20
> > (the application fee) on the profs desk and blew his mind 45 minutes
> > later when I handed in the 4 hour test. He had been teaching that class
> > for about 3 years then, and none of his students had passed it. I wasn't
> > exactly impressed with his teaching ability.
> >
> > Pretty good for a guy with an 8th grade education. I quit school and went
> > to work fixing them new fangled things called tv's in the middle of my
> > freshman in high school year. The year was 1948. And WOI-tv in Ames Ia
> > had been on the air about a year. First tv station in Iowa.
> >
> > But by summer next year, I'll have been retired for 20 years so I'm
> > getting rusty. And despite the fact that I have now outlived all 3
> > wives, and 3 of the children the first one gave me, I still think I've
> > had a good ride for what will be 87 years on 10/04.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respe

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

There are reasons for such restrictions. Don't want a repeat of the 
Toshiba-Kongsberg scandal, especially not with anything sourced from the 
USA.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba%E2%80%93Kongsberg_scandal
Between 1974 and 1985 the Soviet union obtained machine tools from France, West 
Germany, Italy, Japan, France, and the UK. An article I read about it back then 
said the machines were bought minus the control electronics, which allowed them 
to slip through loopholes in the export restrictions, bought by shell companies 
then diverted to the USSR. Likewise with the Kongsberg electronic controls 
bought in Norway. After they obtained the Toshiba 9-axis machines in the mid 
1980's, Soviet submarines began to run much quieter.
Rather than develop the advanced machine tools on their own to mill better 
submarine propellers, the Soviets decided it'd be easier to be sneaky about it 
and obtain them elsewhere.

These days with the web and cheap electronics available to all, along with open 
source software like Linux CNC, it seems silly to try restricting sales and 
movement of fancy machine tools when all the information is freely available to 
build them.

   On Saturday, September 25, 2021, 06:26:45 PM MDT, Stuart Stevenson 
 wrote:  
 I had to sign DOD papers to be able to import a Fanuc 15MB control. It is a
submarine control. 28 axis capable. (What I was told). (not really sure
what the truth is).

If the company moves the machine to another address or sells the machine
the DOD is to be notified.



On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 10:54 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 25 September 2021 09:50:31 John Figie wrote:
>
> > Actually the US export regulation is 600 hz. I worked in servo drive
> > development.
> >
> Thanks for the update John.
>
> In a roundabout way, that does seem to indicate that what Todd needs is
> going to be American made, accompanied by scary permit paperwork, and
> because of its limited use experience to fix common problems, not as
> dependable as we are used to.
>
> Among other things is the frozen technology. One of my sons /was/ working
> in a shop that repairs electronic stuff from nuclear power facilities.
> All of that tech is frozen at 1960ish tech levels, making it illegal to
> use a more modern, thousands of times more dependable semiconductor
> device to repair them. With all the environmental tests such repairs
> must pass, makes replacing a shorted 1n34 diode, which I could do for a
> few cents and my time, into a 10 to 50 thousand dollar job with 50% of
> that being the world wide search for an original part. You can't replace
> a a half watt rated 5 cent in 1962  carbon composition resistor with a 6
> month lifetime, with a 10 cent metal film fireproof version rated at 2
> watts that barring mechanical destruction, would still be in tolerance
> when our star goes nova in its death throes billions of years hence. All
> because its type approved stuff and that would cancel the type approval.
> All the bill payers involved are non-technical and will say it worked
> that way once, make it work that way again with original parts only.
>
> I first ran into that in dealing with the military in 1961, working for a
> contractor who had a contract to maintain the portal door cameras at the
> Titan missle sites wrapped around EAFB at the time. Complaint was the
> camera was just barely working, and there were no spares. So I went out
> and got it, brought it back to EAFB and found a germainium diode, used
> as a back porch clamp switch had about a 10/1 front to back ratio. A
> very poor choice for such duties so I replaced it with a similar but si
> diode that was at least a million times better device for the job. Best
> picture I'd seen out of any of those 3 cameras in the previous year. But
> somebody, processing the payment discovered the part wasn't original and
> decreed that only original parts could be used. The fact that the camera
> now worked better than new was of zero interest, so they had the parts
> crib in the MAMS building find an original part (that took several
> months) and I had to put it in when they finally got it. In the meantime
> of course, the air force had to delegate a crew of mp rated flaps to
> guard the portal door (it was a revolving door that was designed to
> withstand a 500 feet above 50 megaton blast, and was 2 or 3 flights of
> stairs underground, probably weighed 10,000 lbs), because the camera
> wasn't to be re-installed until it had the original part in it.
>
> All of which was assinine from my point of view. But at that time I
> didn't even have a 1st phone, which I fixed shortly afterwards, then saw
> the comm college in Norfolk NE, (Johnny Carsen's home town) was doing
> C.E.T. testing a few years later so I walked in the door, laid a $20
> (the application fee) on the profs desk and blew his mind 45 minutes
> later when I handed in the 4 hour test. He had been teaching that class
> for about 3 years then, and none of his students had 

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Stuart Stevenson]

I had to sign DOD papers to be able to import a Fanuc 15MB control. It is a
submarine control. 28 axis capable. (What I was told). (not really sure
what the truth is).

If the company moves the machine to another address or sells the machine
the DOD is to be notified.



On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 10:54 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 25 September 2021 09:50:31 John Figie wrote:
>
> > Actually the US export regulation is 600 hz. I worked in servo drive
> > development.
> >
> Thanks for the update John.
>
> In a roundabout way, that does seem to indicate that what Todd needs is
> going to be American made, accompanied by scary permit paperwork, and
> because of its limited use experience to fix common problems, not as
> dependable as we are used to.
>
> Among other things is the frozen technology. One of my sons /was/ working
> in a shop that repairs electronic stuff from nuclear power facilities.
> All of that tech is frozen at 1960ish tech levels, making it illegal to
> use a more modern, thousands of times more dependable semiconductor
> device to repair them. With all the environmental tests such repairs
> must pass, makes replacing a shorted 1n34 diode, which I could do for a
> few cents and my time, into a 10 to 50 thousand dollar job with 50% of
> that being the world wide search for an original part. You can't replace
> a a half watt rated 5 cent in 1962  carbon composition resistor with a 6
> month lifetime, with a 10 cent metal film fireproof version rated at 2
> watts that barring mechanical destruction, would still be in tolerance
> when our star goes nova in its death throes billions of years hence. All
> because its type approved stuff and that would cancel the type approval.
> All the bill payers involved are non-technical and will say it worked
> that way once, make it work that way again with original parts only.
>
> I first ran into that in dealing with the military in 1961, working for a
> contractor who had a contract to maintain the portal door cameras at the
> Titan missle sites wrapped around EAFB at the time. Complaint was the
> camera was just barely working, and there were no spares. So I went out
> and got it, brought it back to EAFB and found a germainium diode, used
> as a back porch clamp switch had about a 10/1 front to back ratio. A
> very poor choice for such duties so I replaced it with a similar but si
> diode that was at least a million times better device for the job. Best
> picture I'd seen out of any of those 3 cameras in the previous year. But
> somebody, processing the payment discovered the part wasn't original and
> decreed that only original parts could be used. The fact that the camera
> now worked better than new was of zero interest, so they had the parts
> crib in the MAMS building find an original part (that took several
> months) and I had to put it in when they finally got it. In the meantime
> of course, the air force had to delegate a crew of mp rated flaps to
> guard the portal door (it was a revolving door that was designed to
> withstand a 500 feet above 50 megaton blast, and was 2 or 3 flights of
> stairs underground, probably weighed 10,000 lbs), because the camera
> wasn't to be re-installed until it had the original part in it.
>
> All of which was assinine from my point of view. But at that time I
> didn't even have a 1st phone, which I fixed shortly afterwards, then saw
> the comm college in Norfolk NE, (Johnny Carsen's home town) was doing
> C.E.T. testing a few years later so I walked in the door, laid a $20
> (the application fee) on the profs desk and blew his mind 45 minutes
> later when I handed in the 4 hour test. He had been teaching that class
> for about 3 years then, and none of his students had passed it. I wasn't
> exactly impressed with his teaching ability.
>
> Pretty good for a guy with an 8th grade education. I quit school and went
> to work fixing them new fangled things called tv's in the middle of my
> freshman in high school year. The year was 1948. And WOI-tv in Ames Ia
> had been on the air about a year. First tv station in Iowa.
>
> But by summer next year, I'll have been retired for 20 years so I'm
> getting rusty. And despite the fact that I have now outlived all 3
> wives, and 3 of the children the first one gave me, I still think I've
> had a good ride for what will be 87 years on 10/04.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 
Addressee is the intended audience.
If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read
this email furthermore it is m

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 25 September 2021 09:50:31 John Figie wrote:

> Actually the US export regulation is 600 hz. I worked in servo drive
> development.
>
Thanks for the update John.

In a roundabout way, that does seem to indicate that what Todd needs is 
going to be American made, accompanied by scary permit paperwork, and 
because of its limited use experience to fix common problems, not as 
dependable as we are used to.

Among other things is the frozen technology. One of my sons /was/ working 
in a shop that repairs electronic stuff from nuclear power facilities. 
All of that tech is frozen at 1960ish tech levels, making it illegal to 
use a more modern, thousands of times more dependable semiconductor 
device to repair them. With all the environmental tests such repairs 
must pass, makes replacing a shorted 1n34 diode, which I could do for a 
few cents and my time, into a 10 to 50 thousand dollar job with 50% of 
that being the world wide search for an original part. You can't replace 
a a half watt rated 5 cent in 1962  carbon composition resistor with a 6 
month lifetime, with a 10 cent metal film fireproof version rated at 2 
watts that barring mechanical destruction, would still be in tolerance 
when our star goes nova in its death throes billions of years hence. All 
because its type approved stuff and that would cancel the type approval. 
All the bill payers involved are non-technical and will say it worked 
that way once, make it work that way again with original parts only.

I first ran into that in dealing with the military in 1961, working for a 
contractor who had a contract to maintain the portal door cameras at the 
Titan missle sites wrapped around EAFB at the time. Complaint was the 
camera was just barely working, and there were no spares. So I went out 
and got it, brought it back to EAFB and found a germainium diode, used 
as a back porch clamp switch had about a 10/1 front to back ratio. A 
very poor choice for such duties so I replaced it with a similar but si 
diode that was at least a million times better device for the job. Best 
picture I'd seen out of any of those 3 cameras in the previous year. But 
somebody, processing the payment discovered the part wasn't original and 
decreed that only original parts could be used. The fact that the camera 
now worked better than new was of zero interest, so they had the parts 
crib in the MAMS building find an original part (that took several 
months) and I had to put it in when they finally got it. In the meantime 
of course, the air force had to delegate a crew of mp rated flaps to 
guard the portal door (it was a revolving door that was designed to 
withstand a 500 feet above 50 megaton blast, and was 2 or 3 flights of 
stairs underground, probably weighed 10,000 lbs), because the camera 
wasn't to be re-installed until it had the original part in it.

All of which was assinine from my point of view. But at that time I 
didn't even have a 1st phone, which I fixed shortly afterwards, then saw 
the comm college in Norfolk NE, (Johnny Carsen's home town) was doing 
C.E.T. testing a few years later so I walked in the door, laid a $20 
(the application fee) on the profs desk and blew his mind 45 minutes 
later when I handed in the 4 hour test. He had been teaching that class 
for about 3 years then, and none of his students had passed it. I wasn't 
exactly impressed with his teaching ability.

Pretty good for a guy with an 8th grade education. I quit school and went 
to work fixing them new fangled things called tv's in the middle of my 
freshman in high school year. The year was 1948. And WOI-tv in Ames Ia 
had been on the air about a year. First tv station in Iowa.

But by summer next year, I'll have been retired for 20 years so I'm 
getting rusty. And despite the fact that I have now outlived all 3 
wives, and 3 of the children the first one gave me, I still think I've 
had a good ride for what will be 87 years on 10/04.

[...]

-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[John Figie]

Actually the US export regulation is 600 hz. I worked in servo drive
development.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021, 8:35 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 25 September 2021 07:53:08 Stuart Stevenson wrote:
>
> > No idea if the following is true but the source was knowledgeable.
> >
> > years ago I was told 400 hz was as fast as a control could supply per
> > a government regulation limiting VFDs so plebes could not build fast
> > enough centrifuges to purify uranium.
> >
> > I stand ready to be corrected.
> >
> > Stuart
>
> Hummm, makes perfect sense Stuart. I wonder if its buried in the ITAR
> regs someplace? I've not seen a discussion on that in years, since
> Hitachi-America gave away the farm all those years ago.
>
> Take care now.
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 25 September 2021 07:53:08 Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> No idea if the following is true but the source was knowledgeable.
>
> years ago I was told 400 hz was as fast as a control could supply per
> a government regulation limiting VFDs so plebes could not build fast
> enough centrifuges to purify uranium.
>
> I stand ready to be corrected.
>
> Stuart

Hummm, makes perfect sense Stuart. I wonder if its buried in the ITAR 
regs someplace? I've not seen a discussion on that in years, since 
Hitachi-America gave away the farm all those years ago.

Take care now.

-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Stuart Stevenson]

No idea if the following is true but the source was knowledgeable.

years ago I was told 400 hz was as fast as a control could supply per a
government regulation limiting VFDs so plebes could not build fast enough
centrifuges to purify uranium.

I stand ready to be corrected.

Stuart



On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:48 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 24 September 2021 11:49:02 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
> > They cost about $6500, but that cost is about half any competitors
> > equivalent. (such as HSD, Omlat...)
> >
> > The motor name plate says 800hz for 24000rpm, (guess I assumed that
> > info was on that page I linked to.)
>
> It may have been buried in the language, but I only read American
> English. I did find, on ebay, a couple 15+ kwh'ers that go to a
> kilohertz, with obviously custom built to order pricings. And likely
> shipping delays to match. Needless to say, that power and voltage level
> demands state of the art active devices. And design engineers who
> actually know what they are doing, AND access to them so you can do a
> mind meld to make sure you are hooking them up accordingly. Even 10 feet
> of 6 guage in metallic conduit can have enough pf's of capacitance to
> destroy a 5ns switching device. Makes bigger, plastic conduit a bit more
> appetizing.
>
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:26 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > On Friday 24 September 2021 10:47:49 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Yes.
> > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
> > >w.
> > > hsspindles.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F03%2Fspecs-13.pdf&
> > >;d
> > > ata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6f
> > >c7
> > > 65%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680941219090280%7
> > >CU
> > > nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
> > >ha
> > > WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bTAaxaFe%2B1kE2WR9jCTqyi2ILgw1x7J
> > >zc wvl%2FbzBYAc%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nice chart. But doesn't mention at any place, rpms vs frequency.
> > I don't imagine they give that puppy away either.
> >
> > I tend to run the cheaper stuff, only having a 254 volt center tapped
> > at ground single phase feed at my location.
> >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett 
> > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
> > >
> > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> > >
> > > On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > > Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can
> > > > run a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?
> > >
> > > Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I
> > > have, and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.
> > >
> > > Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing
> > > 24k on 400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that
> > > slow for long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam
> > > back into the 5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine
> > > for longer jobs at 14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs,
> > > it never gets the tank above 36C.
> > >
> > > > Todd Zuercher
> > > > P. Graham Dunn
> > > >
> > > >Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> > > >%2 5
> > > >2F
> > > >
> > > >https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww
> > > >w.
> > > > pgrahamdunn.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbc
> > > >f7b
> > > > 99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc765%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0
> > > >%7C
> > > > 0%7C637680941219090280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> > > >iLC
> > > > JQIjoiV2luMzIiLC

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 24 September 2021 11:49:02 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> They cost about $6500, but that cost is about half any competitors
> equivalent. (such as HSD, Omlat...)
>
> The motor name plate says 800hz for 24000rpm, (guess I assumed that
> info was on that page I linked to.)

It may have been buried in the language, but I only read American 
English. I did find, on ebay, a couple 15+ kwh'ers that go to a 
kilohertz, with obviously custom built to order pricings. And likely 
shipping delays to match. Needless to say, that power and voltage level 
demands state of the art active devices. And design engineers who 
actually know what they are doing, AND access to them so you can do a 
mind meld to make sure you are hooking them up accordingly. Even 10 feet 
of 6 guage in metallic conduit can have enough pf's of capacitance to 
destroy a 5ns switching device. Makes bigger, plastic conduit a bit more 
appetizing.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street 
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:26 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> On Friday 24 September 2021 10:47:49 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Yes.
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww
> >w.
> > hsspindles.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F03%2Fspecs-13.pdf&
> >;d
> > ata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6f
> >c7
> > 65%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680941219090280%7
> >CU
> > nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
> >ha
> > WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bTAaxaFe%2B1kE2WR9jCTqyi2ILgw1x7J
> >zc wvl%2FbzBYAc%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nice chart. But doesn't mention at any place, rpms vs frequency.
> I don't imagine they give that puppy away either.
>
> I tend to run the cheaper stuff, only having a 254 volt center tapped
> at ground single phase feed at my location.
>
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can
> > > run a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?
> >
> > Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I
> > have, and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.
> >
> > Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing
> > 24k on 400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that
> > slow for long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam
> > back into the 5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine
> > for longer jobs at 14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs,
> > it never gets the tank above 36C.
> >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn
> > >
> > >Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> > >%2 5
> > >2F
> > >
> > >https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww
> > >w.
> > > pgrahamdunn.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbc
> > >f7b
> > > 99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc765%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0
> > >%7C
> > > 0%7C637680941219090280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> > >iLC
> > > JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9shs
> > >kfk
> > > ovi8mTo6%2BL%2BIZfMXKdYXnOIrzDwj1UoyQTRw%3D&reserved=0%2Findex
> > >.ph p&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdu
> > >nn
> > > .com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e
> > >08 06
> > > fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> > >MC 4w
> > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&
> > >sd at
> > > a=Nx%2BJRwnxdrUALX1Gr268XqM%2BcVZ49OAy2BChgj9K%2BOs%3D&reserve
> > >d= 0> 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Thaddeus Waldner]

800hz would be the frequency if counting poles as pole pairs, no?

If this is a 4-pole motor, counting both the N and S poles, and hz = rpm / 60 * 
poles / 2, I get 400hz.

Because there are two poles per pole pair. I am not sure that all manufacturers 
use the same convention.


> On Sep 24, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> They cost about $6500, but that cost is about half any competitors 
> equivalent. (such as HSD, Omlat...)
> 
> The motor name plate says 800hz for 24000rpm, (guess I assumed that info was 
> on that page I linked to.)
> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street 
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett  
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:26 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> 
> On Friday 24 September 2021 10:47:49 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> 
>> Yes.
>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> hsspindles.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F03%2Fspecs-13.pdf&d
>> ata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc7
>> 65%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680941219090280%7CU
>> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
>> WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bTAaxaFe%2B1kE2WR9jCTqyi2ILgw1x7Jzc
>> wvl%2FbzBYAc%3D&reserved=0
>> 
> Nice chart. But doesn't mention at any place, rpms vs frequency.
> I don't imagine they give that puppy away either.
> 
> I tend to run the cheaper stuff, only having a 254 volt center tapped at 
> ground single phase feed at my location.
> 
>> Todd Zuercher
>> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
>> 630 Henry Street
>> Dalton, Ohio 44618
>> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Gene Heskett 
>> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
>> 
>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>> 
>> On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>>> Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can 
>>> run a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?
>> 
>> Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I 
>> have, and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.
>> 
>> Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing 24k 
>> on 400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that slow 
>> for long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam back 
>> into the 5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine for 
>> longer jobs at 14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs, it 
>> never gets the tank above 36C.
>> 
>>> Todd Zuercher
>>> P. Graham Dunn
>>> 
>>> Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>> 5
>>> 2F
>>> 
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>> pgrahamdunn.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b
>>> 99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc765%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C
>>> 0%7C637680941219090280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
>>> JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9shskfk
>>> ovi8mTo6%2BL%2BIZfMXKdYXnOIrzDwj1UoyQTRw%3D&reserved=0%2Findex.ph
>>> p&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdu
>>> nn
>>> .com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e08
>>> 06
>>> fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
>>> 4w
>>> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
>>> at
>>> a=Nx%2BJRwnxdrUALX1Gr268XqM%2BcVZ49OAy2BChgj9K%2BOs%3D&reserved=
>>> 0> 630 Henry Street
>>> Dalton, Ohio 44618
>>> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli
>>> st
>>> s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7C
>>> to
>>> ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c5
>>> 73
>>> f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
>>> GZ
>>> sb3d8eyJW

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Todd Zuercher]

They cost about $6500, but that cost is about half any competitors equivalent. 
(such as HSD, Omlat...)

The motor name plate says 800hz for 24000rpm, (guess I assumed that info was on 
that page I linked to.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:26 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Friday 24 September 2021 10:47:49 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Yes.
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> hsspindles.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F03%2Fspecs-13.pdf&d
> ata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc7
> 65%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680941219090280%7CU
> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
> WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bTAaxaFe%2B1kE2WR9jCTqyi2ILgw1x7Jzc
> wvl%2FbzBYAc%3D&reserved=0
>
Nice chart. But doesn't mention at any place, rpms vs frequency.
I don't imagine they give that puppy away either.

I tend to run the cheaper stuff, only having a 254 volt center tapped at ground 
single phase feed at my location.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can 
> > run a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?
>
> Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I 
> have, and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.
>
> Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing 24k 
> on 400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that slow 
> for long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam back 
> into the 5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine for 
> longer jobs at 14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs, it 
> never gets the tank above 36C.
>
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn
> > 
> >Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
> >5
> >2F
> > 
> >https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >pgrahamdunn.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cbcf7b
> >99cdd484b02ab9608d97f6fc765%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C
> >0%7C637680941219090280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
> >JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9shskfk
> >ovi8mTo6%2BL%2BIZfMXKdYXnOIrzDwj1UoyQTRw%3D&reserved=0%2Findex.ph
> >p&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdu
> >nn
> > .com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e08
> >06
> > fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
> >4w
> > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
> >at
> > a=Nx%2BJRwnxdrUALX1Gr268XqM%2BcVZ49OAy2BChgj9K%2BOs%3D&reserved=
> >0> 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli
> >st
> > s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7C
> >to
> > ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c5
> >73
> > f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
> >GZ
> > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> >%3
> > D%7C3000&sdata=ZJy9nGS8vpOxvQSNzrWWYuioxOvg%2BKMmPuNAeF%2FRFaQ%3
> >D& amp;reserved=0
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law  
>respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis  Genes Web page  
><https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgene
>slinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgene&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%
>7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7
>C0%7C0%7C637680905784424735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
>iLCJQIjoiV2luMz

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 24 September 2021 10:47:49 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Yes.
> https://www.hsspindles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/specs-13.pdf
>
Nice chart. But doesn't mention at any place, rpms vs frequency.
I don't imagine they give that puppy away either.

I tend to run the cheaper stuff, only having a 254 volt center tapped at 
ground single phase feed at my location.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street 
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can
> > run a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?
>
> Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I
> have, and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.
>
> Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing 24k
> on 400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that slow
> for long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam back
> into the 5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine for
> longer jobs at 14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs, it
> never gets the tank above 36C.
>
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn
> > Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
> >2F
> > www.pgrahamdunn.com%2Findex.php&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdu
> >nn
> > .com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e08
> >06
> > fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
> >4w
> > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sd
> >at
> > a=Nx%2BJRwnxdrUALX1Gr268XqM%2BcVZ49OAy2BChgj9K%2BOs%3D&reserved=
> >0> 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli
> >st
> > s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7C
> >to
> > ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c5
> >73
> > f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
> >GZ
> > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> >%3
> > D%7C3000&sdata=ZJy9nGS8vpOxvQSNzrWWYuioxOvg%2BKMmPuNAeF%2FRFaQ%3
> >D& amp;reserved=0
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgene
>slinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgene&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%
>7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7
>C0%7C0%7C637680905784424735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
>iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=BmhVGU
>%2BBJ2YB8pm8yvDnpd4oNKOLfpVnG9qR6HPJNFo%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist
>s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Ctod
>dz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f4
>7cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784424735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
>d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
>3000&sdata=g5sxcHgiurOW3VNSflYYJ6WDgKHIJu8%2FnNo7l3S4Q2Y%3D&res
>erved=0
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Todd Zuercher]

Yes.
https://www.hsspindles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/specs-13.pdf

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:27 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can run 
> a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?

Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I have, and 
would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.

Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing 24k on
400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that slow for long 
jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam back into the
5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine for longer jobs at 14k-20k 
with the mister on. At the higher revs, it never gets the tank above 36C.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn 
> Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
> www.pgrahamdunn.com%2Findex.php&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn
> .com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806
> fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdat
> a=Nx%2BJRwnxdrUALX1Gr268XqM%2BcVZ49OAy2BChgj9K%2BOs%3D&reserved=0>
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist
> s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Cto
> ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573
> f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784414687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
> D%7C3000&sdata=ZJy9nGS8vpOxvQSNzrWWYuioxOvg%2BKMmPuNAeF%2FRFaQ%3D&
> amp;reserved=0



--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeneslinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgene&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784424735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=BmhVGU%2BBJ2YB8pm8yvDnpd4oNKOLfpVnG9qR6HPJNFo%3D&reserved=0>


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C4727423beae5413ddb1008d97f67884b%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637680905784424735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=g5sxcHgiurOW3VNSflYYJ6WDgKHIJu8%2FnNo7l3S4Q2Y%3D&reserved=0


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Recomendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 24 September 2021 09:37:32 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Anyone have a recommendation for a good VFD and supplier that can run
> a 15kw 4pole spindle at 24000rpm?

Thats going to be a tough one Todd, its 10x the power of anything I have, 
and would need to get to 800 hz to run a 4 pole at 24k revs.

Are you sure its a 4 pole? All of my 24k's have been 2 pole, doing 24k on 
400 hz. 3600 on 60 hz, but needing better cooling to run that slow for 
long jobs. The one I'm running now, will be spitting steam back into the 
5 gallon tank in an hours running at 4k. But is fine for longer jobs at 
14k-20k with the mister on. At the higher revs, it never gets the tank 
above 36C.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Issues

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:56:27 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] VFD Issues

I was working at upgrading the spindle on a machine.  The old spindle was 9kw 
the new one is 11kw.  This is a Yaskawa 626MC5 drive and a 24000rpm 11kw router 
spindle.  At first I tired test running it without adjusting any of the VFD 
settings.  The first test, running a spindle run in program, failed on the 
first rpm step after a couple minutes, with a VFD over current alarm.  I then 
dug into the VFD settings, and made some adjustments (mostly adjusting the max 
current settings.) same result.  Then changed the base voltage setting, first 
try I went the wrong way, and that made the current draw worse, so I shut it 
down right away before any alarms.  I then moved the base voltage down, and 
that lowed the low speed current draw to within the specs for the VFD.  Next 
thing I notice I smell something hot, I quick open up the cabinet and the 
braking resistor is melting down.  The drive is rated for 22.5A and according 
to its screen it was only outputting about 17-18A and wasn't even braking at 
the time.

Where did I go wrong?  I've ran undersized VFDs numerous times without issue, I 
thought it just limited your max power.  Did I mess something up in the drive 
earlier when I set the base voltage wrong and the drive was trying to output 
30+A?

We have a new braking resistor ordered, but what about the drive?  I'm afraid 
to just hook it up and try it, for fear it will do it again.  Can I test it 
without the braking resitor?

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



Is it possible the brake voltage is set too low so its
stuck-on at your nominla line voltage?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD Issues

[andrew beck]

Todd I have a 11kw yaskawa 616 g5 drive and a 9kw hsd biesse high speed
spindle.

Do you want me to chase down the parameters?

Also what deceleration settings do you have?  And what size heat sink.
Maybe you are slowing it down faster that before

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021, 10:33 Todd Zuercher,  wrote:

> I was working at upgrading the spindle on a machine.  The old spindle was
> 9kw the new one is 11kw.  This is a Yaskawa 626MC5 drive and a 24000rpm
> 11kw router spindle.  At first I tired test running it without adjusting
> any of the VFD settings.  The first test, running a spindle run in program,
> failed on the first rpm step after a couple minutes, with a VFD over
> current alarm.  I then dug into the VFD settings, and made some adjustments
> (mostly adjusting the max current settings.) same result.  Then changed the
> base voltage setting, first try I went the wrong way, and that made the
> current draw worse, so I shut it down right away before any alarms.  I then
> moved the base voltage down, and that lowed the low speed current draw to
> within the specs for the VFD.  Next thing I notice I smell something hot, I
> quick open up the cabinet and the braking resistor is melting down.  The
> drive is rated for 22.5A and according to its screen it was only outputting
> about 17-18A and wasn't even braking at the time.
>
> Where did I go wrong?  I've ran undersized VFDs numerous times without
> issue, I thought it just limited your max power.  Did I mess something up
> in the drive earlier when I set the base voltage wrong and the drive was
> trying to output 30+A?
>
> We have a new braking resistor ordered, but what about the drive?  I'm
> afraid to just hook it up and try it, for fear it will do it again.  Can I
> test it without the braking resitor?
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 20:21:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 01:07, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Ordered, thanks Andy. How fast have you run the baud rate?
>
> I _think_ that I run 19200. But I would need to walk out to the
> workshop and boot the mill to find out, and it's 0120 here.
>
> I  can get you the full loadusr string tomorrow.

I figured it was probably a loaduser thing but the man page is silent on 
that point.  And since I won't have the cable for at least a week, 
tomorrow would be a nice Christmas present. Thanks Andy.  And have a 
happy holiday yourself. I already had one nice present, one of my boys 
drove over the hill from Maryland and handed me a small gift wrapped 
package as he came in the door. One of my fav handguns, is a 44 cap and 
ball Ruger reproduction of the Remington Army pistol from 1851, they 
made a train load of 45-50 years ago out of stainless steel, has an 
after-market adapter kit that lets it use 45 Long Colt cartridges. Pain 
in the rear to load it as you have to dis the cylinder plumb out of it, 
but it shoots considerably more accurately than the cap and ball 
version.  The small box was a set of reloading dies for it. Made with 
the newest tech, titanium sizing rings. With ammo at nearly $2 a bang, 
those dies will get used.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Ordered, thanks Andy. How fast have you run the baud rate?

I _think_ that I run 19200. But I would need to walk out to the
workshop and boot the mill to find out, and it's 0120 here.

I  can get you the full loadusr string tomorrow.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 17:22:13 andy pugh wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 22:19, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-U13-Alligator-Compatible/dp/B08
> > >2KKG55T
> >
> > That module talks thru usb?
>
> Not exactly. That cable contains a USB to serial bridge, so appears to
> linux as /dev/ttyUSB0
>
> >  i might have to get one one of those cables  and try it.
>
> I am using one for my part-time high-speed spindle (with a HuanYang
> VFD). Works fine.

Ordered, thanks Andy. How fast have you run the baud rate?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 22:19, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-U13-Alligator-Compatible/dp/B082KKG55T

> That module talks thru usb?

Not exactly. That cable contains a USB to serial bridge, so appears to
linux as /dev/ttyUSB0

>  i might have to get one one of those cables  and try it.

I am using one for my part-time high-speed spindle (with a HuanYang
VFD). Works fine.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 16:20:26 andy pugh wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 07:13, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > It is an Huanyang HY02D223B VFD.
>
> Use the hy_vfd HAL module and
> https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-U13-Alligator-Compatible/dp/B082KKG
>55T (cut the croc clips off and use them for something else)

That module talks thru usb?  i might have to get one one of those cables  
and try it. I moved all the drive wires to what I thought was the same 
inputs on this new one but I'm getting a zero fwd and rev at the same 
time, so theres no response from the vfd. Also no response from its own 
front panel, it goes thru the expected display motions but no motor 
response. I'll probably go double check settings again tonight, but my 
back is screaming ATM. I need to scan the booklet and reprint it on 
letter paper, its very very fine print.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 07:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> It is an Huanyang HY02D223B VFD.

Use the hy_vfd HAL module and
https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-U13-Alligator-Compatible/dp/B082KKG55T
(cut the croc clips off and use them for something else)

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 09:02:35 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> It's been in the regular release since 2.7
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/src/hal/user_comps/hu
>anyang-vfd

I am running master on all machines, including buster on the small lathe, 
its not there in the man9 pages. But I just found it with locate, on 
that wheezy machine:
gene@shop:~/linuxcnc/configs/6040-5i25-7i76$ locate hy_vfd
/usr/bin/hy_vfd
/usr/share/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.gz
my bad, I had assumed it was squirreled away in man9.  Interesting.

Thanks Todd.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Todd Zuercher]

It's been in the regular release since 2.7
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/src/hal/user_comps/huanyang-vfd

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:54 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 02:27:54 Benjamin Brockhaus wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> have a look at the hy_vfd module.
> It uses the huanyang-version of modbus to communicate to the HY-VFDs.
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.html
>
And where might this modules code be found?  It is not part of a master install 
on any of my machines including the rpi4's clone of master that gets updated by 
git and rebuilt/reinstalled several time a week.

But I did find it in that git clone, just is not being built. And is not 
available via synaptic for any version from wheezy to buster.

So, assuming I do a git clone on that machine in order to get that src, what to 
I configure in order to get it built and installed on THAT machine, which is 
still running wheezy?

Big order maybe, thanks Benjamin.

> Greetings,
> Benjamin
>
> On 23.12.20 08:11, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I have discovered that this vfd has an rs485 port, and I have some
> > rs485 bidirectional drivers, I bought a 10 pack of them for use as 
> > differential output encoder translators to ttl signals, which they 
> > are excellent for if programmed to only be receivers.  So I have the 
> > hardware that can talk to this thing via rs485. Some mesa cards also 
> > have this, so my question then is what modules do I load up in my 
> > hal file that would use this comm channel to talk to and/or 
> > command/monitor this VFD.
> >
> > My current lashup is a 5i25 in the computer, a cnc4pc C1G bob on its 
> > p2, and a 7i76D on p3.
> >
> > It is an Huanyang HY02D223B VFD.
> >
> > Do we have a suitable driver for this?
> >
> > Looking at /usr/share/man/man9, I don't see a module that looks like 
> > a likely suspect.  There is a spindle_monitor module, but that man 
> > page is less than half a screen full and doesn't say a thing about 
> > hooking it up.  Very sparse docs IOW. I am assuming that I could 
> > somehow feed it the VO output, provided it was programmed to be a 
> > usable signal once AtoD'd in one of the first 4 field inputs of my 
> > 7i76D.  But that is only a SWAG. I understand those AtoD's aren't 
> > quite real time as I have read they are successive approximation 
> > AtoD's with a 36 volt full scale input, meaning at best for a 0-10 
> > volt signal they would have about a 1% granularity.  That maybe 
> > sufficient for a spindle-at-speed detection, yet TBD, but probably 
> > needing a gain factor plugged in and I don't see such a parameter in 
> > the spindle_monitor man page.
> >
> > Many thanks for any enlightenmet.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 December 2020 02:27:54 Benjamin Brockhaus wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> have a look at the hy_vfd module.
> It uses the huanyang-version of modbus to communicate to the HY-VFDs.
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.html
>
And where might this modules code be found?  It is not part of a master 
install on any of my machines including the rpi4's clone of master that 
gets updated by git and rebuilt/reinstalled several time a week.

But I did find it in that git clone, just is not being built. And is not 
available via synaptic for any version from wheezy to buster.

So, assuming I do a git clone on that machine in order to get that src, 
what to I configure in order to get it built and installed on THAT 
machine, which is still running wheezy?

Big order maybe, thanks Benjamin.

> Greetings,
> Benjamin
>
> On 23.12.20 08:11, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I have discovered that this vfd has an rs485 port, and I have some
> > rs485 bidirectional drivers, I bought a 10 pack of them for use as
> > differential output encoder translators to ttl signals, which they
> > are excellent for if programmed to only be receivers.  So I have the
> > hardware that can talk to this thing via rs485. Some mesa cards also
> > have this, so my question then is what modules do I load up in my
> > hal file that would use this comm channel to talk to and/or
> > command/monitor this VFD.
> >
> > My current lashup is a 5i25 in the computer, a cnc4pc C1G bob on its
> > p2, and a 7i76D on p3.
> >
> > It is an Huanyang HY02D223B VFD.
> >
> > Do we have a suitable driver for this?
> >
> > Looking at /usr/share/man/man9, I don't see a module that looks like
> > a likely suspect.  There is a spindle_monitor module, but that man
> > page is less than half a screen full and doesn't say a thing about
> > hooking it up.  Very sparse docs IOW. I am assuming that I could
> > somehow feed it the VO output, provided it was programmed to be a
> > usable signal once AtoD'd in one of the first 4 field inputs of my
> > 7i76D.  But that is only a SWAG. I understand those AtoD's aren't
> > quite real time as I have read they are successive approximation
> > AtoD's with a 36 volt full scale input, meaning at best for a 0-10
> > volt signal they would have about a 1% granularity.  That maybe
> > sufficient for a spindle-at-speed detection, yet TBD, but probably
> > needing a gain factor plugged in and I don't see such a parameter in
> > the spindle_monitor man page.
> >
> > Many thanks for any enlightenmet.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd vs rs485

[Benjamin Brockhaus]

Hi Gene,

have a look at the hy_vfd module.
It uses the huanyang-version of modbus to communicate to the HY-VFDs.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.html

Greetings,
Benjamin

On 23.12.20 08:11, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I have discovered that this vfd has an rs485 port, and I have some rs485 
> bidirectional drivers, I bought a 10 pack of them for use as 
> differential output encoder translators to ttl signals, which they are 
> excellent for if programmed to only be receivers.  So I have the 
> hardware that can talk to this thing via rs485. Some mesa cards also 
> have this, so my question then is what modules do I load up in my hal 
> file that would use this comm channel to talk to and/or command/monitor 
> this VFD.
>
> My current lashup is a 5i25 in the computer, a cnc4pc C1G bob on its p2, 
> and a 7i76D on p3.
>
> It is an Huanyang HY02D223B VFD.
>
> Do we have a suitable driver for this?
>
> Looking at /usr/share/man/man9, I don't see a module that looks like a 
> likely suspect.  There is a spindle_monitor module, but that man page is 
> less than half a screen full and doesn't say a thing about hooking it 
> up.  Very sparse docs IOW. I am assuming that I could somehow feed it 
> the VO output, provided it was programmed to be a usable signal once 
> AtoD'd in one of the first 4 field inputs of my 7i76D.  But that is only 
> a SWAG. I understand those AtoD's aren't quite real time as I have read 
> they are successive approximation AtoD's with a 36 volt full scale 
> input, meaning at best for a 0-10 volt signal they would have about a 1% 
> granularity.  That maybe sufficient for a spindle-at-speed detection, 
> yet TBD, but probably needing a gain factor plugged in and I don't see 
> such a parameter in the spindle_monitor man page.
>
> Many thanks for any enlightenmet.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[MC Cason via Emc-users]

On 1/27/19 10:22 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 14:37, MC Cason via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by

Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the doc
translated.


Consider how well native-english staff at a local restaurant would fare at
re-writing a VFD manual.
It isn't just reading the (technical) Chinese, it is translating it into
the correct (technical) English.



  If it's a choice between getting the VFD running, and throwing it 
away, anything is possible as a last resort...  He could get lucky and 
find somebody that knows a bit about electronics.


---Mark




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[Chris Albertson]

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 8:25 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 14:37, MC Cason via Emc-users <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by
> > Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the doc
> > translated.
>

I asked  my wife if she could help with a Chinese GPS receiver user manual.
Chinese was her second language. Japanese being first.  She went to school
from 1st to 8th grade in a Chinese school and can read and write Manderin
to 8th grade level.  She is fluent in Japanese, Chinese and English but
looked at the GPS manual and says "it is all techncal words".  The thing
abut Chinese is you know the character or you don't.  In English we can
figure out what a word is but characters must be 100% memorized, so if a
document is filled the technical stuff it is unreadable by some one with an
8th grade chinese education.In Japan all the technical words, they just
use English, but in China they re-cycle existing charaters and it it is not
readable by a chiese speaker who does not know the code.

That said Google Translate is not bad at Chinese to English.


>
> Consider how well native-english staff at a local restaurant would fare at
> re-writing a VFD manual.
> It isn't just reading the (technical) Chinese, it is translating it into
> the correct (technical) English.
>
>
> --

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 January 2019 11:22:28 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 14:37, MC Cason via Emc-users <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by
>
> > Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the
> > doc translated.
>
> Consider how well native-english staff at a local restaurant would
> fare at re-writing a VFD manual.
> It isn't just reading the (technical) Chinese, it is translating it
> into the correct (technical) English.

Which is exactly why I never thought of it in the first place. :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 14:37, MC Cason via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

   BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by
> Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the doc
> translated.


Consider how well native-english staff at a local restaurant would fare at
re-writing a VFD manual.
It isn't just reading the (technical) Chinese, it is translating it into
the correct (technical) English.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 January 2019 09:35:08 MC Cason via Emc-users wrote:

> Gene,
>
>    I don't have the same one as you, but I have 2 Huanyang branded
> vfds.  On the HY series vfd, the screw terminal blocks are marked RS+
> and RS-.  On the GT series vfd, the screw terminal blocks are marked
> 485+ and 485-

I don't think either of those exist.

>    You "SHOULD" have something similar  ...maybe, possibly...  It is
> Chinese after all...
>
>
>    BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by
> Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the doc
> translated.
>
Two actually, although their English leaves a _lot_ to be desired. Good 
enough to take your order with a lot of hand waving at the menu, and of 
course to collect the money.  Makes good food though. :)
>
> ---Mark
>
> On 1/27/19 8:10 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Which brings up another possibility to control it. But I've not yet
> > discovered an "rj" connector. I've a whole bag of full duplex, or
> > half duplex, ttl to rs485 gismo's as they sell for less than $2 on
> > fleabay.
> >
> > Does anyone have a list of common terminal names it this is brought
> > out on a terminal strip?
> >
> > I see in the vfd docs, where d160 can be the address of 01-254, and
> > d161 can spec the baud rate up to 38 kilobaud, and d162 controls how
> > it handles com errors. But zero data on what sort of data is needed
> > to control it.
> >
> > Do we have a driver, prefereably half-duplex where the return value
> > might be the vfd's own tach output so I can get something to display
> > in axis?
> >
> > I see this motor has a metal disk about an inch in diameter,
> > presumably to throw off leakage, located about 10 mm above the er11
> > threads. Could this be used to setup a 1 or 2 pulse per rev tach
> > signal without throwing it out of balance, say with a 2 narrow bands
> > of flat black paint read by a non-contact IR circuit?
> >
> > If so, what is its name?  Is this another name for modbus?
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD, supposedly has RS485 port for speed/direction control

[MC Cason via Emc-users]

Gene,

  I don't have the same one as you, but I have 2 Huanyang branded 
vfds.  On the HY series vfd, the screw terminal blocks are marked RS+ 
and RS-.  On the GT series vfd, the screw terminal blocks are marked 
485+ and 485-


  You "SHOULD" have something similar  ...maybe, possibly...  It is 
Chinese after all...



  BTW, do you have a local Chinese restaurant that is actually run by 
Chinese nationals?  It maybe worthwhile to check into getting the doc 
translated.




---Mark

On 1/27/19 8:10 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Which brings up another possibility to control it. But I've not yet
discovered an "rj" connector. I've a whole bag of full duplex, or half
duplex, ttl to rs485 gismo's as they sell for less than $2 on fleabay.

Does anyone have a list of common terminal names it this is brought out
on a terminal strip?

I see in the vfd docs, where d160 can be the address of 01-254, and d161
can spec the baud rate up to 38 kilobaud, and d162 controls how it
handles com errors. But zero data on what sort of data is needed to
control it.

Do we have a driver, prefereably half-duplex where the return value might
be the vfd's own tach output so I can get something to display in axis?

I see this motor has a metal disk about an inch in diameter, presumably
to throw off leakage, located about 10 mm above the er11 threads. Could
this be used to setup a 1 or 2 pulse per rev tach signal without
throwing it out of balance, say with a 2 narrow bands of flat black
paint read by a non-contact IR circuit?

If so, what is its name?  Is this another name for modbus?

Cheers, Gene Heskett




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[einar]

It looks like it does.
But be aware that may require an option card.
It does in those I use. They have the connections and protocol, but need the 
option card to 
be installed as they do not have the RS485 interface as standard.

Regards
Einar

On 22 Feb 2017 at 11:24, dragon wrote:

> Here is a link to the manual for a VFD that I am considering...
> 
> http://www.hclub.ee/download/varia/KOC100%20Series%20User%20Manual--20150119(V1.1).pdf
> 
> If someone that is familiar with modbus could take a quick look and see
> if it looks to support the standard RTU protocol I would be most
> grateful. If it does, I think I can figure out the modbus-to-hal details
> to get it to work.



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/22/2017 10:24 AM, dragon wrote:
> Here is a link to the manual for a VFD that I am considering...
>
> http://www.hclub.ee/download/varia/KOC100%20Series%20User%20Manual--20150119(V1.1).pdf
>
> If someone that is familiar with modbus could take a quick look and see
> if it looks to support the standard RTU protocol I would be most
> grateful. If it does, I think I can figure out the modbus-to-hal details
> to get it to work.

That looks like it should work.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

Here is a link to the manual for a VFD that I am considering...

http://www.hclub.ee/download/varia/KOC100%20Series%20User%20Manual--20150119(V1.1).pdf

If someone that is familiar with modbus could take a quick look and see
if it looks to support the standard RTU protocol I would be most
grateful. If it does, I think I can figure out the modbus-to-hal details
to get it to work.

Thanks!

On 02/01/2017 08:35 PM, dragon wrote:
> I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
> have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
> across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.
> 
> Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
> interface?
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
> have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
> Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
> costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.
> 
> Thanks!
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 08:56:08 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 08:14 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual
> > > > port read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that
> > > > data, so unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always
> > > > the read at the top of the list, the data massaging in the
> > > > middle, and the write of that data is always last in the addf
> > > > order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all
> > > > this, but it will be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays
> > > > in processing, then making use of that data affects the
> > > > stability of the loop because the data is stale.  Most
> > > > noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> > >
> > > Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals
> >
> > You're most welcome.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6
> > > mm/min
> >
> > Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute,
> > almost 2 meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600
> > oz clunker I'm useing, I could at least double that.
>
> That's true, oops, but well, yes the max speed is approx 2000mm/min
>
> > > with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> > > cutting wood) without any problem
> >
> > Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at
> > more than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since
> > its generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full
> > depth.  I am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint
> > whose fingers are somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for
> > furniture, and make it on the G0704, including the assembly screw
> > holes and the square pockets above those for the ebony buttons that
> > hide the screws. I make those on the milling machine too.
> >
> > But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap
> > bearings in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to
> > replace them with quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500
> > in deference to those cheap bearings.
> >
> > Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> >
> > Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I can cut wood at 20mm depth at 300 to 500 mm/min
>
> but the vfd on my pantograph has a manual dial and a Hertz display, so
> I don't know the rpm for sure, only the frequency is displayed which I
> don't remember now
>
That motor, since you are cutting wood, is quite likely a "2 pole" motor, 
which would turn at 3575 revs or so w/o loading when the vfd says 60 hz, 
and would be turning quite close to 24 thousand rpms at 400 hz. If your 
vfd can go higher, the motor would speed up to even more rpms, but 
you'll eventually it a limit, either because the motor explodes or its 
inductance gets in the way of establishing a strong enough rotating 
magnetic field and the motor goes into mangetic slippage with almost 
zero torque to do work.

I'd add a pyvcp tachometer to the axis display, setting its full scale to 
the motors rated top speed, then feed it with the pwmgen.value input, 
thru a scale module to make the tach dial match the speed. Thats NOT the 
feedback obtained from a motor encoder, but if the scale modules gain is 
set correctly, it should match the motors speed within 1 or 2 percent. 
If the motors slip angle becomes too great, the vfd may complain, or 
even stop  with an overload message. That equals a damaged project and 
quite likely a broken tool, obviously to be avoided.

If the error message is accompanied by a signal that could be used to 
exert an e-stop, that is certifiably a Good Thing. My counterfeit vfd 
that is turning the spindle on this Sheldon 11x26 lathe I am converting, 
has no such tally output, darn it. Best I could do is compare the 
command to the vfd with the encoders output velocity, which in the grand 
scheme of things would also catch bad belt slippage and such, so that 
may get done. I just need to find a round tuit. I may have to make some 
of those yet. When I get the time. ;-)

Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 08:14 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> 
> > > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port
> > > read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so
> > > unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at
> > > the top of the list, the data massaging in the middle, and the write
> > > of that data is always last in the addf order. The data twiddling
> > > can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will be executed in
> > > the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use of
> > > that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is
> > > stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> >
> > Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals
> 
> You're most welcome.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min
> 
> Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute, almost 2 
> meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600 oz clunker 
> I'm useing, I could at least double that.

That's true, oops, but well, yes the max speed is approx 2000mm/min


> > with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> > cutting wood) without any problem
> 
> Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at more 
> than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since its 
> generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full depth.  I 
> am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint whose fingers are 
> somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for furniture, and make it on 
> the G0704, including the assembly screw holes and the square pockets 
> above those for the ebony buttons that hide the screws. I make those on 
> the milling machine too.
> 
> But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap bearings 
> in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to replace them with 
> quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500 in deference to those 
> cheap bearings.
> 
> Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> 
> Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I can cut wood at 20mm depth at 300 to 500 mm/min

but the vfd on my pantograph has a manual dial and a Hertz display, so I
don't know the rpm for sure, only the frequency is displayed which I
don't remember now



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 04:50:20 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:


> > Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port
> > read inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so
> > unless you want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at
> > the top of the list, the data massaging in the middle, and the write
> > of that data is always last in the addf order. The data twiddling
> > can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will be executed in
> > the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use of
> > that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is
> > stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
>
> Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals

You're most welcome.

[...]

> I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min

Wrong multiplier, an inch is 25.4 mm's, so 75 ipm=1905mm/minute, almost 2 
meters a minute. With the right motor instead of this 1600 oz clunker 
I'm useing, I could at least double that.

> with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
> cutting wood) without any problem

Thats about 31.5"/minute. None of my spindles can cut mahogany at more 
than 15"/minute, the spindle is way to slow, and then, since its 
generally 3/4 inches thick wood, I do it in 3 passes to full depth.  I 
am fond of the Green and Green joint, a huge box joint whose fingers are 
somewhere between 22 and and 28mm's wide, for furniture, and make it on 
the G0704, including the assembly screw holes and the square pockets 
above those for the ebony buttons that hide the screws. I make those on 
the milling machine too.

But the top speed on its spindle is around 2750 with the cheap bearings 
in the back gearing screaming for mercy. I've got to replace them with 
quality bearings. I don't often run it above 1500 in deference to those 
cheap bearings.

Where on this ball of rock and water are you?

Cheers Valerio Bellizzomi, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-22 at 02:53 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 February 2017 01:51:15 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
> > for running with the SPINx1
> >
> loadrt  hal_parport cfg="0x378 out  "
> setpparport.0.reset-time2700
> > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> addfpwmgen.make-pulses  base-thread
> > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> 
> On my small mill, software step etc generation, this scale is set to the top 
> speed the spindle can turn, so is 2500. If your spindle can do 6000, yes, 6000


I am going to try this configuration when the board arrives


> > with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?
> 
> A couple things to consider, the most important related to the order of the 
> addf's. This list is internally executed in the order encountered in the hal 
> file. So I always do the base-thread addf's first, then list the servo-thread 
> entries next just because its a bit of "organization". The actual processing 
> you are constructing is two execution loops, the base thread executed many 
> times for each pass thru the much slower servo-thread.
> 
> Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port read 
> inserts a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so unless you 
> want a delay on purpose, the order is always the read at the top of the list, 
> the data massaging in the middle, and the write of that data is always last 
> in the addf order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all this, 
> but it will be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, 
> then making use of that data affects the stability of the loop because the 
> data is stale.  Most noticeable when setting up the PID modules.
> 


Thanks Gene for this clarification about LinuxCNC internals




> I am not using a spinx1 on that machine, but a now elderly PMDX-101 version 
> that is essentially a clone of the spinx1, but has a bunch of switches and a 
> pot so I can control the spindle either by the gcode, or totally manually, 
> forward and reverse just by flipping the switches. I do not know if current 
> PMDX cards have that same functionality or not, but at the time I converted 
> it over a decade ago, it was the most useful version extant.
> 
> It obviously cost more, a lot more as those parts were top shelf all the way. 
> The only problem I've had with the whole setup was that I blew motor fuses 
> regularly long before the motor stalled, and eventually the switching 
> transistor in the motor circuit blew.
> 
> Rummaging around in my pile of dead computer PSU's, I found a transistor that 
> looked just like it, but could handle 3x the voltage and 10x the current. 
> Using static conrol measures (its a hexfet) I transplanted one of those to 
> the motor control, added an amp to the fuse, and the blown another fuse 
> problem has been fixed.
> 
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > > > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > > > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > > > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > > > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > > > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > > > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > > > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> > >
> > > This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot
> > > drive a machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is
> > > supposed to be making a G0 move.
> > >
> > > Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some
> > > cases can be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all
> > > but one of my machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm
> > > cutting and 10 or so at full throttle. My stuff with more std
> > > interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm without missing a beat.


I'm not accustomed to inches, that should be 40 * 2.54 = 101.6 mm/min

with my current machine I can set a speed of up to 800mm/min (when
cutting wood) without any problem

I just make sure the spindle speed is ok so that it doesn't burn the
wood


> > > Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants
> > > available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the
> > > stepper drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that
> > > contributes to the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can
> > > sink 24 mills, easily turning the led 

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 22 February 2017 01:51:15 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
> for running with the SPINx1
>
loadrt  hal_parport cfg="0x378 out  "
setpparport.0.reset-time2700
> loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addfpwmgen.make-pulses  base-thread
> addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800

On my small mill, software step etc generation, this scale is set to the top 
speed the spindle can turn, so is 2500. If your spindle can do 6000, yes, 6000

> with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?

A couple things to consider, the most important related to the order of the 
addf's. This list is internally executed in the order encountered in the hal 
file. So I always do the base-thread addf's first, then list the servo-thread 
entries next just because its a bit of "organization". The actual processing 
you are constructing is two execution loops, the base thread executed many 
times for each pass thru the much slower servo-thread.

Haveing a module processing data from a read above the actual port read inserts 
a one loop execution delay in processing that data, so unless you want a delay 
on purpose, the order is always the read at the top of the list, the data 
massaging in the middle, and the write of that data is always last in the addf 
order. The data twiddling can be a thousand lines below all this, but it will 
be executed in the order of the addf's. Delays in processing, then making use 
of that data affects the stability of the loop because the data is stale.  Most 
noticeable when setting up the PID modules.

I am not using a spinx1 on that machine, but a now elderly PMDX-101 version 
that is essentially a clone of the spinx1, but has a bunch of switches and a 
pot so I can control the spindle either by the gcode, or totally manually, 
forward and reverse just by flipping the switches. I do not know if current 
PMDX cards have that same functionality or not, but at the time I converted it 
over a decade ago, it was the most useful version extant.

It obviously cost more, a lot more as those parts were top shelf all the way. 
The only problem I've had with the whole setup was that I blew motor fuses 
regularly long before the motor stalled, and eventually the switching 
transistor in the motor circuit blew.

Rummaging around in my pile of dead computer PSU's, I found a transistor that 
looked just like it, but could handle 3x the voltage and 10x the current. Using 
static conrol measures (its a hexfet) I transplanted one of those to the motor 
control, added an amp to the fuse, and the blown another fuse problem has been 
fixed.

>
> Thanks
>
> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> > >
> > >
> > > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> > >
> > >
> > > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> >
> > This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot
> > drive a machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is
> > supposed to be making a G0 move.
> >
> > Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some
> > cases can be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all
> > but one of my machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm
> > cutting and 10 or so at full throttle. My stuff with more std
> > interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm without missing a beat.
> >
> > Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants
> > available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the
> > stepper drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that
> > contributes to the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can
> > sink 24 mills, easily turning the led on in the isolation circuitry
> > of the driver.
> >
> > But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the
> > pulse jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour
> > or so. Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the
> > base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while
> > waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai
> > kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever
> > it was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so
> > it stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a dam

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant to ask if this configuration is good
for running with the SPINx1

loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
# Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800


with say the scale set to 6000 rpm, it is going to work as is ?


Thanks


On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 16:54 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
> >
> >
> > loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> > addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> > addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> > net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> > net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> > net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> > # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> > setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
> >
> >
> > is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
> >
> This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot drive a 
> machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is supposed to be 
> making a G0 move.
> 
> Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some cases can 
> be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all but one of my 
> machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm cutting and 10 or so at 
> full throttle. My stuff with more std interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm 
> without missing a beat.

> Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants 
> available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the stepper 
> drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that contributes to 
> the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can sink 24 mills, easily 
> turning the led on in the isolation circuitry of the driver.
> 
> But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the pulse 
> jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour or so. 
> Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the 
> base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while 
> waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai 
> kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever it 
> was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so it 
> stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a damaged or wrecked part.
> 
> That makes spending the sheckels for a smart card interface very much 
> desirable. If that interface can also be the BoB, thats a desirable 
> economy. There are several mesa cards that meet that criteria, and I'm 
> fond of the 7i90HD, which gives you a big pile of very steady heartbeat 
> signals, as high as 8 stepper drivers, 4 pwm generators, and 4 encoder 
> inputs.  What you do not use, can be removed from the load 
> configuration, and those pins then used as General Purpose I/O, for a 
> grand total of 72 of them. The 7i90 can be driven by a std EPP capable 
> printer port, (yours may or may not be EPP capable, and mainboard 
> manuals do not always state the truth) or by an SPI port. 
> 
> So please reconsider how you are going to interface to the machinery. 
> Getting some isolation between the computer and its jitter pulse 
> generation is something you'll never regret.
> 
> Where on this ball of rock and water are you?
> 
> > On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > > > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be
> > > > connected to an external potentiometer
> > > >
> > > > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> > >
> > > Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the
> > > VFD side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus
> > > source when measured to the common.
> > >
> > > The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally
> > > on the VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to
> > > respond to the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the
> > > computer side, you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an
> > > enable signal and wire it up in the hal file.
> > >
> > > You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly
> > > resembles this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> > > ##
> > > # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> > > ##
> > > setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale
> > > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE setp   
> > > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency   
> > > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ #setp  
> > > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOAR

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 21 February 2017 12:15:22 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :
>
>
> loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
> addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
> addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
> net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
> net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
> # Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800
>
>
> is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?
>
This would be for purely software driving, which generally cannot drive a 
machine to anything resembling high speeds when it is supposed to be 
making a G0 move.

Thats is why the majority of us use a smart card, which in some cases can 
be its own breakoutboard too.  Such is the case with all but one of my 
machines, and that one can only move around 8ipm cutting and 10 or so at 
full throttle. My stuff with more std interfaces can move 40 to 75 ipm 
without missing a beat.

Also associated in the speed limits are the limited drive currants 
available from the parport. Getting 10 mills out to drive the stepper 
drivers doesn't turn on the opto's all that fast, so that contributes to 
the speed limit. Most of the accessory boards can sink 24 mills, easily 
turning the led on in the isolation circuitry of the driver.

But the most telling in using a parport with direct drive is the pulse 
jitter, as indicated by running latency-test for half an hour or so. 
Every time you see a spike/raise in the displayed time of the 
base-thread, thats a long step, and the motor may well stop while 
waiting for the next step, but when the cpu, even running an rtai 
kernel, will then try to catch up when it does get free of whatever it 
was doing, but the motor isn't able to re-accelerate that fast so it 
stalls.  And everytime it stalls, you have a damaged or wrecked part.

That makes spending the sheckels for a smart card interface very much 
desirable. If that interface can also be the BoB, thats a desirable 
economy. There are several mesa cards that meet that criteria, and I'm 
fond of the 7i90HD, which gives you a big pile of very steady heartbeat 
signals, as high as 8 stepper drivers, 4 pwm generators, and 4 encoder 
inputs.  What you do not use, can be removed from the load 
configuration, and those pins then used as General Purpose I/O, for a 
grand total of 72 of them. The 7i90 can be driven by a std EPP capable 
printer port, (yours may or may not be EPP capable, and mainboard 
manuals do not always state the truth) or by an SPI port. 

So please reconsider how you are going to interface to the machinery. 
Getting some isolation between the computer and its jitter pulse 
generation is something you'll never regret.

Where on this ball of rock and water are you?

> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be
> > > connected to an external potentiometer
> > >
> > > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> >
> > Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the
> > VFD side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus
> > source when measured to the common.
> >
> > The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally
> > on the VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to
> > respond to the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the
> > computer side, you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an
> > enable signal and wire it up in the hal file.
> >
> > You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly
> > resembles this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> > ##
> > # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> > ##
> > setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency   
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ #setp  
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type  
> > [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE setp   
> > hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency   
> > [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> >
> > The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned
> > in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> >
> > Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just
> > copy and paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match
> > yours, but will show you approximately what you need.
> > First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> > pin in my 7i90 card.
> >
> > First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's use

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

>From the LinuxCNC manual I see an example :


loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
# Set the spindle's top speed in RPM
setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800


is this sufficient to get the spindle going ?



On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> > an external potentiometer
> >
> > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> 
> Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
> side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
> measured to the common.
> 
> The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
> VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
> the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
> you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
> it up in the hal file.
> 
> You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
> this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> ##
> # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> ##
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> #setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> 
> The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
> in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> 
> Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
> paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
> will show you approximately what you need.
> First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> pin in my 7i90 card.
> 
> First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
> true low,
> 
> # Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
> # stepgen 00
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 01
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 03
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1
> 
> # the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
> code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
> the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.
> 
> And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
> method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
> digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
> the .ini file by a line grouping like this:
> 
> [SPINDLE_9]
> # 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
> PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
> # make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
> PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
> PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
> PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1
> 
> # the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
> click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
> the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
> these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
> is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
> A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
> so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
> with my fake vfd..
> 
> sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
> net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
> net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
> Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.
> 
> A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
> are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
> the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
> on the drivers

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Thanks Gene,
I don't have a breakout board, I have 3 Step Motor Drives and a DB25
connector where I am going to solder 25 tiny wires. I have 25 tiny wires
out of a stripped parallel cable.

The first time I attempted to solder one DB25 connector, I had
inappropriate wires, too big to enter the small hole in the pins, so I
had to sacrifice one parallel cable to get wires with appropriate
section.





On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 11:26 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> > page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> > an external potentiometer
> >
> > is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?
> 
> Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
> side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
> measured to the common.
> 
> The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
> VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
> the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
> you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
> it up in the hal file.
> 
> You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
> this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
> ##
> # Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
> ##
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> #setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq 
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
> [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
> setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
> [SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY
> 
> The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
> in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.
> 
> Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
> paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
> will show you approximately what you need.
> First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
> pin in my 7i90 card.
> 
> First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
> true low,
> 
> # Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
> # stepgen 00
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 01
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
> # stepgen 03
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1
> 
> # the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
> code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
> the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.
> 
> And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
> method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
> digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
> the .ini file by a line grouping like this:
> 
> [SPINDLE_9]
> # 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
> PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
> # make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
> PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
> PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
> PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1
> 
> # the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
> click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
> the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
> these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
> is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
> A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
> so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
> with my fake vfd..
> 
> sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
> net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
> net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
> Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.
> 
> A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
> are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
> the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
> on the drivers control plug.
> 
> ##

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 21 February 2017 07:33:28 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> Hello,
> the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on
> page C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to
> an external potentiometer
>
> is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?

Yes, it has silk screened names. Its a totally isolated thing on the VFD 
side. The vfd  should have a common, a nominally 12 volt plus source when 
measured to the common.

The fwd and rev signals are separated by the spinx1, and generally on the 
VFD side respond to a closure to this common to enable it to respond to 
the voltage from the "arm" of the potentiometer.  On the computer side, 
you will need to dedicate on pin of the BoB as an enable signal and wire
it up in the hal file.

You will need, if using the mesa cards, something that faintly resembles 
this to get the LCNC speed signal hooked to the spinx1:
##
# Hook pwmgen.00 to the spindle speed and set for PDM output #
##
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.scale 
[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_SCALE
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
#setp   hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pwm_freq [SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_S_FREQ
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.output-type   
[SPINDLE_9]PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE
setphm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.pdm_frequency
[SPINDLE_9]PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY

The data being referred in the right hand argument to needs assigned 
in the [SPINDLE_9] section of your .ini file.

Now, I don't see below, what breakout you are using so I'll just copy and
paste from my setup. Keep in mind that these will NOT match yours, but 
will show you approximately what you need.
First, setup the enable signal which in my case uses a gpio
pin in my 7i90 card.

First, you need to set the output pins for all axis's used as inverting and 
true low,

# Turn pulses to true low, opendrain so they are closures to ground.
# stepgen 00
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.000.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.001.is_opendrain 1
# stepgen 01
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.002.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.003.is_opendrain 1
# stepgen 03
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.018.is_opendrain 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.019.is_opendrain 1

# the above gpio numbers correspond to the outputs of the canned
code in the FPGA's installed firmware for the stepgens I use, and
the PDM signal from the pwmgen module in the cards firmware.

And the reason I keep calling it PDM is that is a ditherless
method of getting quite smooth speed signals from a basically
digital circuit.  That is done as the modules are enabled in 
the .ini file by a line grouping like this:

[SPINDLE_9]
# 16.6 is close to 100 revs per click in low belt position
PWMGEN_S_SCALE  = 16.6
# make it run in PDM mode, is self smoothing then
PWMGEN_S_FREQ   =   1
PWMGEN_OUTPUT_TYPE  =   3
PDMGEN_PDM_FREQUENCY=   1

# the SCALE above sets it to run the spindle at 100 rpm per
click on the + button, when the backgear is not engaged and
the belt is in the lowest speed grooves of the pulleys. All of 
these settings are of course your personal choices. PDM_FREQUENCY
is a balance between update rate and quantization of the speed change.
A lower frequency is higher resolution but it should be fast enough
so the motor speed doesn't ripple. 1 is a good choice for me
with my fake vfd..

sets emcmot.00.enable FALSE
net emcmot.00.enable <= joint.0.amp-enable-out
net emcmot.00.enable => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.03.enable
Thats not all of that stuff, but you'll get the idea.

A gpio pin is an input unless told otherwise, and all signals
are closures to ground, with 5 volts fed to the + terminals on
the axis motor drivers, with your step/dirs connected to the - terminal
on the drivers control plug.

#
# Setup vfd drive enable yadda yadda, building down from top down forward first 
#
# The SpinX1 only needs pwm and dir I thought, but needs an ena(ble) too.
#
# start with SpinX1's dir which has to be converted to an output of the correct 
polarity
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.is_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.invert_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.071.is_opendrain 1
# this is the green jumper wire from the SpinX1's FWD, to 7i90-p3-47
net reverse_vfd <= motion.sp

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Hello,
the SpinX1 manual says it acts like a potentiometer, the figure on page
C-13 of the VFD's manual shows the VIA contact to be connected to an
external potentiometer

is that the right  way to connect the spinx1 ?





On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 08:56 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> ... snip
> > the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> > input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> > There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> > two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
> ... snip
> 
> I found a manual here:
> https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual
> 
> I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
> B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
> activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
> that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
> "485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
> (relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
> heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
> VFD.
> 
> A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
> the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
> forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
> solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
> on the output.
> 
> It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
> same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
> may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
> 10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
> the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.
> 
> If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
> other information. It may be useful for the above connections.
> 
> It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.
> 
> The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
> and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
> filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
> while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
> already has a built-in noise filter.
> 
> 




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

My order from mesaus already shipped.
Thanks.


On Sun, 2017-02-19 at 08:12 -0600, John Thornton wrote:
> I have them in stock... and offer the best prices for international 
> shipping.
> 
> https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=91
> 
> JT
> 
> On 2/19/2017 7:08 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
> >
> > Next time, consider:
> > http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
> > http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
> > http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none 
> > listed)
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[John Thornton]

I have them in stock... and offer the best prices for international 
shipping.

https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=91

JT

On 2/19/2017 7:08 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
>> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>
> Next time, consider:
> http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
> http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
> http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none 
> listed)
>
>


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[andy pugh]

On 16 February 2017 at 09:20, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy


Next time, consider:
http://www.shop.cncmonster.de/LinuxCNC/Interface-Karten/Servointerface/SPINx1-PWM::375.html
http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=common/home (though none in stock)
http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 (also none listed)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 08:56 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> ... snip
> > the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> > input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> > There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> > two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
> ... snip
> 
> I found a manual here:
> https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual
> 
> I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
> B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
> activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
> that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
> "485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
> (relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
> heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
> VFD.
> 
> A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
> the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
> forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
> solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
> on the output.

Yes that is what I said, there is no Enable, just Forward and Reverse,
to be connected to CC 


> It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
> same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
> may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
> 10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
> the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.

>From the manual's figure (page C-13), the VIA is for an external
potentiometer, or for a voltage input, the VIB is for a voltage input,
and VIC is for current input. The input mode is programmable with the
cnod/fnod parameters on the vfd

> If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
> other information. It may be useful for the above connections.
> 
> It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.
> 
> The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
> and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
> filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
> while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
> already has a built-in noise filter.

It has a selectable noise filter (on/off)





--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/16/2017 03:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
... snip
> the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
> input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
> There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
> two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.
... snip

I found a manual here:
https://inverterdrive.com/file/Toshiba-VFS15-User-Manual

I usually first check the overview graphic which seems to be on page 
B-4. I see the F terminal which could just be shorted to common to 
activate it. The speed potentiometer is shown too. PWM could simulate 
that. I also see theRS485 connector. I did a search in the document for 
"485" and found page C-4, which shows some control options; terminal 
(relay), keypad, RS485 (Modbus?), CAN (cool), communication(what the 
heck?). Just below are some speed setting options. This should be a nice 
VFD.

A little farther down from B-4 are the I/O circuit options. Looking at 
the F entry, it basically says shorting the F terminal to CC will start 
forward rotation. You can use a parallel port pin to control a small 
solid state relay or opto-isolator. It just needs to tolerate 24 Volts 
on the output.

It looks like the VIA (voltage, input, analog?) is a speed input. The 
same parallel port pin to solid state relay or opto-isolator as F above 
may be used, except it only needs 10 Volt tolerence. Terminal PP is the 
10 Volt source (CC common isn't needed, most likely). The signal from 
the parallel port pin should use PWM or PDM.

If you have a BOB (Break Out Board), post a make/model and/or picture or 
other information. It may be useful for the above connections.

It looks like page D-3 is a good place to start VFD programing.

The above may be wrong or missing some information, so study the manual 
and decide for yourself what to do. I would get a mains input noise 
filter right of the bat, so you don't have to chase down weird issues 
while trying to learn how to use your VFD. Hmm... It looks like your VFD 
already has a built-in noise filter.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:06 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 10:36 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> >>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> 
> 
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> >
> > suggestions?
> 
> If you reply with the Toshiba model number, we could give you better 
> information. Pictures and overview of your project would be even better.
> 
> Basic direction an speed control can be done with just a parallel port 
> and a few electronic parts. Here is an example:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_pwm_spindle_speed
> 
> The PWM bits create an analog signal using a digital parallel port pin 
> and switching it on/off in a way that effectively acts like an analog 
> signal. This would go to your VFD analog speed or frequency input. This 
> is only needed if you want LinuxCNC to control VFD speed. The example 
> shows the PWM signal being connected to the parallel port pin 9.
> 
> Sections 3 and 4 below the spindle section (2) connect the basic digital 
> signals to parallel port pins 14, 16, and 17.
> 
> Usually the VFD inputs are opto-isolators which are usually a floating 
> LED and current limit resistor circuit. Common parallel port buffer 
> boards are good for driving these inputs. A breakout board with 
> opto-isolators is not needed. A nice thing about parallel ports is that 
> add-on cards are cheap and you can add as many ports as your computer 
> slots can hold. The down side is that parallel ports are slow, so the 
> PWM signal will not have high resolution.
> 


the VFD is a Toshiba VFS15-4037PL-W, it has a Forward input, a Reverse
input, and a current speed input (and alternatively a 0-10V input).
There isn't an enable input. I do not need the reverse so it should be
two parallel pins, one for forward and one for speed.




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Thu, 2017-02-16 at 02:40 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
> > > > > > > where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
> > > > > > > You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
> > > > > > > two to do a digital to analog conversion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
> > > > > > ebay ? I was looking at
> > > > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
> > > > > >rdwa re
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
> > > > > > their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
> > > > > > the spindle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> > > > > between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> > > > > electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> > > > > pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> > > > > need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> > > > > dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> > > > > need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> > > > > below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> > > >
> > > > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
> > > > they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
> > > > payment, I do not own a credit card
> > > >
> > > > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
> > > > ?
> > >
> > > There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
> > > left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
> > > pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
> > > the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
> > > done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
> > > slower.  Another day perhaps.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
> >
> >
> > http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
> >
> > I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
> >
> Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of 
> the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


I have to actually build the machine, so I can wait that long time,
meanwhile it will be hard metal work




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Peter Blodow]

Am 16.02.2017 08:40, schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
 On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
>>> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
>>> where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
>>> You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
>>> two to do a digital to analog conversion.
>> is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
>> ebay ? I was looking at
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
>> rdwa re
>>
>> I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
>> their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
>> the spindle.
> Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
 I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
 they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
 payment, I do not own a credit card

 is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
 ?
>>> There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
>>> left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
>>> pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
>>> the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
>>> done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
>>> slower.  Another day perhaps.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
>>
>>
>> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
>>
>> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>>
> Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of
> the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
There used to be an internet shop in southern Germany, I forgot the 
address. That's EU, so shipping would last a few days at maximum. PCW 
should know, for he provided it to me some years ago.

Peter

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
> > > > > > where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
> > > > > > You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
> > > > > > two to do a digital to analog conversion.
> > > > >
> > > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
> > > > > ebay ? I was looking at
> > > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
> > > > >rdwa re
> > > > >
> > > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
> > > > > their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
> > > > > the spindle.
> > > >
> > > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> > > > between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> > > > electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> > > > pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> > > > need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> > > > dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> > > > need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> > > > below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> > >
> > > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
> > > they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
> > > payment, I do not own a credit card
> > >
> > > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
> > > ?
> >
> > There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
> > left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
> > pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
> > the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
> > done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
> > slower.  Another day perhaps.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
>
>
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
>
> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>
Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of 
the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > > >
> > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > > I was looking at
> > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > > >re
> > > >
> > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> > >
> > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> >
> > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> > not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> > own a credit card
> >
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
> coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
> sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
> day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
> I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
> perhaps.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here


http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy





--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > >
> > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > I was looking at
> > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > >re
> > >
> > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> >
> > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> own a credit card
>
> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>
There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
perhaps.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 10:36 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?


> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
>
> suggestions?

If you reply with the Toshiba model number, we could give you better 
information. Pictures and overview of your project would be even better.

Basic direction an speed control can be done with just a parallel port 
and a few electronic parts. Here is an example:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_pwm_spindle_speed

The PWM bits create an analog signal using a digital parallel port pin 
and switching it on/off in a way that effectively acts like an analog 
signal. This would go to your VFD analog speed or frequency input. This 
is only needed if you want LinuxCNC to control VFD speed. The example 
shows the PWM signal being connected to the parallel port pin 9.

Sections 3 and 4 below the spindle section (2) connect the basic digital 
signals to parallel port pins 14, 16, and 17.

Usually the VFD inputs are opto-isolators which are usually a floating 
LED and current limit resistor circuit. Common parallel port buffer 
boards are good for driving these inputs. A breakout board with 
opto-isolators is not needed. A nice thing about parallel ports is that 
add-on cards are cheap and you can add as many ports as your computer 
slots can hold. The down side is that parallel ports are slow, so the 
PWM signal will not have high resolution.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:57 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> >
> > Thanks, I just placed an order
> >
> > btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> > I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> > enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> > connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> > signal commands the axes and spindle.
> >
> 
> I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
> when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.


it is only a question of space, if I have enought pins left empty I
could wire them separately




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

>
> Thanks, I just placed an order
>
> btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> signal commands the axes and spindle.
>

I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:22 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> 
> Sure
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
> 
> Andrew


Thanks, I just placed an order

btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
signal commands the axes and spindle.



--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>

Sure
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

Andrew
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > > analog conversion.
> >
> > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > I was looking at
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
> >
> > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> 
> Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
> drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
> noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
> linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
> that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
> fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
> don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
> the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.


I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
own a credit card

is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > analog conversion.
>
> is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> I was looking at
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
>
> I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.

Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> > On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>>
> > >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max
> > >>> 20mA), is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode
> > >>> command ?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> > >>
> > >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> > >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> > >> affect your VFD speed
> > >>
> > >> function. So:
> > >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent --
> > >>> 20ma hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL
> > >>> .comp component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> > >>
> > >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> > >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> > >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> > >> component (software).
> > >
> > > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > >
> > > suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___ Emc-users mailing
> > list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 13:45:38 dragon wrote:

> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some
> sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog
> conversion.

I am currently running one of the Chinese fakes you see a gross of on 
ebay at any one time for small change over a $100 bill.  No Modbus at 
all anyplace in it, just an assortment of analog and dir sigs needed.

However, its opto-isolated, so for linear speed responses that fails 
rather badly at the low pwmgen percentages because the opto-isolators 
are too slow. But with a Mesa SpinX1 ($18) between them, I have quite 
linear speed control, and the SpinX1 helps to isolate the VFD's 
switching noises too. I haven't fully optimized the VFD yet, but I can 
reverse a 40lb chuck turning 200 revs in about 1 rev after making a 
locking collar so the chuck won't unscrew itself. It will do it even 
faster. That will do rigid tapping rather nicely, so I'm a happy camper.

Motor is a 1hp 3 phase 230 volt I'd bought two of at a recycle facility 
here in town for a $50 bill (and no, I wasn't armed), lathe is an old 
Sheldon 11x36. This VFD is a 1.5hp rated model.  Seems quite 
bulletproof. I am not saying this is the only way, but it works for me.

And I am running it all with a Raspberry pi 3b, and a Mesa 7i90 
interface.

I am not thru building the lathe to fully operational yet, and progress 
is slow ATM, with my afternoons tied up visiting the wife, who is 
currently in rehab about 20 miles away, getting used to a replacement 
hip.

> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA),
> >>> is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> >> affect your VFD speed
> >>
> >> function. So:
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma
> >>> hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp
> >>> component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> >> component (software).
> >
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> >
> > suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
> of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.


is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
I was looking at 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware

I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their power
supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle


> 
> 
> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> >>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> >> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> >> function. So:
> >>
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma 
> >>> hardware
> >>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> >>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> >> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> >> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > 
> > suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___ Emc-users mailing list 
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[dragon]

The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.




On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Briefly, mostly yes.
>>
>> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
>> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
>> function. So:
>>
>>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
>>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
>>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
>>
>> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
>> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
>> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
>>
> 
> 
> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> 
> suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> > that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> 
> Briefly, mostly yes.
> 
> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> function. So:
> 
> > S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> > ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> > wire from hardware interface to VFD
> 
> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> 


I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.

suggestions?




--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.

Briefly, mostly yes.

The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
function. So:

> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- wire 
> from hardware interface to VFD

In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 09:51 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 08:24 AM, dragon wrote:
>> So some more questions about VFDs...
>>
>> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
>> extra cost?
>>
>> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
>>
>> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>>
>> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?
>
> For a basic mill or lathe spindle modifying an existing VFD HAL
> component to your VFD is not hard to do.

The comments in this file might help:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?New_File_From_Vfs11


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> So some more questions about VFDs...
> 
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?

It is cheaper.

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Ed]

On 02/15/2017 11:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
I am using a VFS11 series. It can use 20ma or 10v plus direction for 
signals. What are you planning to drive it with? (Interface hardware)

Ed.


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/15/2017 10:51 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> For extra credit, ideally, a VFD component could just describe the
> available functions and options for communications. Then Modbus HAL
> components could be made for a mix of servers, clients and channels
> independently of the device details. I think work has been done in this
> regard, but it tends to not be widely published. :(
> Hmm ..., maybe here:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModbusToHal

And here:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/mb2hal.html


And somewhat less usefully here:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/mb2hal.1.html


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 08:24 AM, dragon wrote:
> So some more questions about VFDs...
>
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?
>
> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
>
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

For a basic mill or lathe spindle modifying an existing VFD HAL 
component to your VFD is not hard to do. There are two basic parts to 
the component; the Modbus connection/communication, and the VFD 
data/HALpin configuration.

The Modbus bit needs to know what port, protocol, rate to use.

Then what to send/receive on the Modbus connection needs to be set up, 
such as a set of VFD functions (Forward, Reverse, Stop, Brake, Speed, 
etc. ) and the associated the data words/registers for the particular VFD.

An existing VFD HAL component will have all of this in place. It's just 
a matter of consulting the manual for the new VFD to edit the details. 
This should be easyish for someone handy at making other HAL components.

For extra credit, ideally, a VFD component could just describe the 
available functions and options for communications. Then Modbus HAL 
components could be made for a mix of servers, clients and channels 
independently of the device details. I think work has been done in this 
regard, but it tends to not be widely published. :(
Hmm ..., maybe here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModbusToHal

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/15/2017 09:24 AM, dragon wrote:
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

I don't know of a good authoritative/exhaustive list of supported VFDs, 
but that would clearly be a very useful thing to have.

It should live in a document under the "Hardware Drivers" heading in our 
docs:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/

The best way to figure out what VFDs we support is probably to scan all 
the manpages.  I grepped for 'vfd' and got this list:

man9/wj200_vfd.9
man1/vfs11_vfd.1
man1/vfdb_vfd.1
man1/hy_vfd.1
man1/gs2.1

It's silly that some are in section 1 ("Commands and userspace 
components") and some in section 9 ("Realtime components and kernel 
modules"), they probably all belong in section 1.


Patches to fix these two problems with the docs would be gratefully 
accepted.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dannym]

AFAIK any quality VFD made in the last 5+ yrs will be sensorless vector drive, 
at basically the same cost as earlier VFDs. 

Hitachi WJ200 is a sensorless vector drive.  It's not super-expensive, and it's 
a Hitachi.  Yes it has a Modbus driver for it.

HY has worked ok for people, but I would never consider it, a reliable WJ200 is 
only a bit more $.

Danny

 dragon  wrote: 
> So some more questions about VFDs...
> 
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?
> 
> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
> 
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
> 
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?
> 
> Thanks again everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/05/2017 01:55 PM, dragon wrote:
> > So it looks like perhaps only the 7.5kW model is the new GT series. I
> > don't need anything near that big so if I go with the Huanyang I would
> > be getting the model that uses the existing driver.
> > 
> > Looking at the driver docs and code, it looks like there is no way to
> > request the motor load. However since the driver has HAL pins to report
> > most of the parameters would it be possible to calculate the spindle load?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 02/03/2017 10:06 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >> On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
> >>> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
> >>> series, could you just use MB2HAL?
> >>
> >> I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
> >> MB2HAL.
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

So some more questions about VFDs...

What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
extra cost?

Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?

Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus

and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

Thanks again everyone!



On 02/05/2017 01:55 PM, dragon wrote:
> So it looks like perhaps only the 7.5kW model is the new GT series. I
> don't need anything near that big so if I go with the Huanyang I would
> be getting the model that uses the existing driver.
> 
> Looking at the driver docs and code, it looks like there is no way to
> request the motor load. However since the driver has HAL pins to report
> most of the parameters would it be possible to calculate the spindle load?
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/03/2017 10:06 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
>>> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
>>> series, could you just use MB2HAL?
>>
>> I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
>> MB2HAL.
>>
>>
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

So it looks like perhaps only the 7.5kW model is the new GT series. I
don't need anything near that big so if I go with the Huanyang I would
be getting the model that uses the existing driver.

Looking at the driver docs and code, it looks like there is no way to
request the motor load. However since the driver has HAL pins to report
most of the parameters would it be possible to calculate the spindle load?



On 02/03/2017 10:06 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
>> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
>> series, could you just use MB2HAL?
> 
> I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
> MB2HAL.
> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Chris Morley]

I believe it's Mitsubishi's own. It's similar to modbus. I have run A500 and 
E700 series. They are basically the same E series allows more status

- Reply message -
From: "Nicklas Karlsson" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?
Date: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 12:44 PM



It would of course be a very good idea to add, do you happen to know which 
protocol it use? Or what mitsubishe name it?

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 18:53:09 +
Chris Morley  wrote:

>
> No I wrote a python HAL program that used the serial port. I used a converter 
> to convert from rs232 to 485.I referenced Mitsubishi papers for the protocol. 
> I can add it to linuxcnc if anyone is interested.
>
> Chris M
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Nicklas Karlsson" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?
> Date: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 8:43 AM
>
>
>
> pyprofibus?
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 02:02:23 +
> Chris Morley  wrote:
>
> > I use mitsubishi VFDs particularly the e700 series.
> >
> > They use a rs-485 serial connection.
> >
> > I have a python program to communicate with them.
> >
> >
> > I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
> >
> >
> > These are expensive drives to buy new, but can be found on Ebay.
> >
> > Just other options available.
> >
> >
> > Chris M
> >
> > 
> > From: dragon 
> > Sent: February 2, 2017 2:35 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations
> >
> > I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
> > have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
> > across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.
> >
> > Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
> > interface?
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
> > have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
> > Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
> > costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 03 February 2017 13:53:09 Chris Morley wrote:

> No I wrote a python HAL program that used the serial port. I used a
> converter to convert from rs232 to 485.I referenced Mitsubishi papers
> for the protocol. I can add it to linuxcnc if anyone is interested.
>
> Chris M

Please do Chris.  I went out on a limb and bought a 5 pack of 
usb<->rs-485 gismo's thinking I could use them to talk to the VFD I have 
on the Sheldon.

Sure.  Unforch, its a fake VFD, and despite a full, every bolt teardown, 
there is not a rs-485 port anyplace on its pcb's. So I have one of these 
things hanging on a 10 foot USB cable plugged into the Dell running the 
G0704, and wondering what to do with it, although it does make a decent 
night light. :)

However, given the limitations of programming it from the front panel, it 
runs from a 10 volt signal from a SpinX1 just fine. I'm running the 
7i90's PWMGEN in PDM mode, smooth as silk with the only noticeable lag 
being the startup lag of about 1.5 seconds because the current safety 
stop, its too slow, is only about 1/2 Hz below the first step of 100 
revs, no back gear and 1st gear in the belts, stop is maybe .75 seconds 
from 200 hundred revs. I haven't measured the m3/m4/m3 vs any real speed 
above 100 revs yet. I don't want to unscrew that 7.75" chuck. :(  But I 
have a clamp for that about half made when I blew up the 7i90, so thats 
the rest of the first swarf project/test. I have it rewired except for 
the stuff that plugs into the 7i90 as of about 20 minutes ago. I'll have 
to finish the 7i90 i/o wiring before I can power any of the motors as I 
put a couple 40 Amp SSR's, to be controlled by LCNC's 
motion.motion-enable signal, in series with everything but the 5 volts 
for the pi & 7i90. I put a 20 amp Brick Wall filter at the line input of 
the VFD, and a big ferrite clamp-on at the output of it, and ANYthing 
carrying switch mode power is now either in well shielded and single 
bolt grounded cable, or in well gripped for shielding continuity, 
conduit or BX.

Next is go kill the main breaker for it in the service, mount the new 
7i90, and see if I can control the SSR's.

But its getting on toward nose bag time, so I better go see what the 
better half wants for dinner. :)

[...]

Thanks Chris M.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

It would of course be a very good idea to add, do you happen to know which 
protocol it use? Or what mitsubishe name it?

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 18:53:09 +
Chris Morley  wrote:

> 
> No I wrote a python HAL program that used the serial port. I used a converter 
> to convert from rs232 to 485.I referenced Mitsubishi papers for the protocol. 
> I can add it to linuxcnc if anyone is interested.
> 
> Chris M
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Nicklas Karlsson" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?
> Date: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 8:43 AM
> 
> 
> 
> pyprofibus?
> 
> 
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 02:02:23 +
> Chris Morley  wrote:
> 
> > I use mitsubishi VFDs particularly the e700 series.
> >
> > They use a rs-485 serial connection.
> >
> > I have a python program to communicate with them.
> >
> >
> > I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
> >
> >
> > These are expensive drives to buy new, but can be found on Ebay.
> >
> > Just other options available.
> >
> >
> > Chris M
> >
> > 
> > From: dragon 
> > Sent: February 2, 2017 2:35 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations
> >
> > I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
> > have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
> > across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.
> >
> > Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
> > interface?
> >
> > Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
> > have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
> > Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
> > costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/03/2017 11:53 AM, Chris Morley wrote:
>
> No I wrote a python HAL program that used the serial port. I used a
> converter to convert from rs232 to 485.I referenced Mitsubishi papers
> for the protocol. I can add it to linuxcnc if anyone is interested.

I think it would be a good addition (especially if it has a manpage).

If it's just adding a driver, without messing too much with any existing 
stuff, then please add it to 2.7.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Chris Morley]

Modbus worked fine enough for testing.Speed and direction is all I was 
controlling. It was quite a while ago that I did this.

Chris M

- Reply message -
From: "Andrew" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations
Date: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 8:42 AM



2017-02-03 4:02 GMT+02:00 Chris Morley:

> I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
>

Was it a success?
I have a few Yaskawa VFDs so I would be interested in some details.


Andrew
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Chris Morley]

No I wrote a python HAL program that used the serial port. I used a converter 
to convert from rs232 to 485.I referenced Mitsubishi papers for the protocol. I 
can add it to linuxcnc if anyone is interested.

Chris M

- Reply message -
From: "Nicklas Karlsson" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?
Date: Fri, Feb 3, 2017 8:43 AM



pyprofibus?


On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 02:02:23 +
Chris Morley  wrote:

> I use mitsubishi VFDs particularly the e700 series.
>
> They use a rs-485 serial connection.
>
> I have a python program to communicate with them.
>
>
> I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
>
>
> These are expensive drives to buy new, but can be found on Ebay.
>
> Just other options available.
>
>
> Chris M
>
> 
> From: dragon 
> Sent: February 2, 2017 2:35 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations
>
> I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
> have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
> across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.
>
> Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
> interface?
>
> Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
> have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
> Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
> costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I also have two yaskawa drives but are working on replacing them, I got them 
running but need to get parameters correct.


On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 18:36:15 +0200
Andrew  wrote:

> 2017-02-03 4:02 GMT+02:00 Chris Morley:
> 
> > I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
> >
> 
> Was it a success?
> I have a few Yaskawa VFDs so I would be interested in some details.
> 
> 
> Andrew
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations, pyprofibus?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

pyprofibus?


On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 02:02:23 +
Chris Morley  wrote:

> I use mitsubishi VFDs particularly the e700 series.
> 
> They use a rs-485 serial connection.
> 
> I have a python program to communicate with them.
> 
> 
> I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
> 
> 
> These are expensive drives to buy new, but can be found on Ebay.
> 
> Just other options available.
> 
> 
> Chris M
> 
> 
> From: dragon 
> Sent: February 2, 2017 2:35 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations
> 
> I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
> have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
> across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.
> 
> Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
> interface?
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
> have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
> Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
> costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Andrew]

2017-02-03 4:02 GMT+02:00 Chris Morley:

> I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.
>

Was it a success?
I have a few Yaskawa VFDs so I would be interested in some details.


Andrew
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
> series, could you just use MB2HAL?

I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
MB2HAL.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
series, could you just use MB2HAL?



On 02/02/2017 10:51 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 09:34 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/02/2017 07:02 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>
>> ... snip
>>
>>> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
>>> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models.  I'm
>>> working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not ready yet.
>>
>>
>> Did you have a plan or an overview of the update. I could look at it so
>> then two of us probably won't get around to it.
> 
> The GT-series use a totally different wire protocol from the earlier 
> non-GT VFDs.  Huanyang's manuals calls both protocols "Modbus", but the 
> older non-GT VFD protocol is definitely not Modbus, it's some unique 
> protocol Huanyang made up.  It was reverse engineered by someone named 
> "scotta" on CNC Zone, for which we owe a debt of gratitude.
> 
> The Huanyang GT-series VFDs implement Modbus correctly, so they will be 
> much easier to write a driver for.
> 
> The VFD we got unfortunately lacked the switch on the circuit board that 
> enables Modbus ("SW1"), instead it had a jumper wire there disabling 
> Modbus.  Wat.  After communicating with Huanyang we desoldered this 
> jumper wire and soldered it back in the "enable Modbus" position, and 
> that got it communicating.
> 
> So now it's just a small matter of programming, and writing some docs on 
> how to modify the hardware to allow it to communicate via Modbus.  I 
> should have something ready for testing in a few weeks.
> 
> Those Huanyang VFDs sure are inexpensive, but they're also the most 
> wonky and obstinate VFDs I've ever worked with.
> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

If you think that a driver is doable and not far off, it probably
doesn't really matter which version I get. For my use I could just
manually control spindle speed until the driver is ready.


On 02/02/2017 04:21 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 03:04 PM, dragon wrote:
>> how do you tell the difference between the older models and the GT series?
>>
>> I don't see an actual model number on most of the ebay listings
> 
> I think you have to ask the seller.
> 
> The VFD we got came with a manual that says "Huyanyang GT-series" on the 
> front cover, that was our first clue that the old hy_vfd driver might 
> not work.
> 
> The manual says that the name plate on the VFD will have a model number 
> that begins with "GT-", but our VFD had no name plate.
> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Chris Morley]

I use mitsubishi VFDs particularly the e700 series.

They use a rs-485 serial connection.

I have a python program to communicate with them.


I've also toyed with a Yaskawa drive with Classicladder over modbus.


These are expensive drives to buy new, but can be found on Ebay.

Just other options available.


Chris M


From: dragon 
Sent: February 2, 2017 2:35 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

I want to start looking for VFDs for my lathe and mill conversions. I
have two 2hp 3 phase motors to use for the spindles. Of course if I came
across a 3hp for the lathe some day it might get upgraded.

Are there any drawbacks to using MODBUS instead of the usual analog 10v
interface?

Does anyone have suggestions for particular brands or models of VFD? I
have worked with several Hitachi and one Toshiba VFD but that is all.
Remember that these are home/hobby machines and I do need to try to keep
costs down, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish either.

Thanks!

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/02/2017 03:04 PM, dragon wrote:
> how do you tell the difference between the older models and the GT series?
>
> I don't see an actual model number on most of the ebay listings

I think you have to ask the seller.

The VFD we got came with a manual that says "Huyanyang GT-series" on the 
front cover, that was our first clue that the old hy_vfd driver might 
not work.

The manual says that the name plate on the VFD will have a model number 
that begins with "GT-", but our VFD had no name plate.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

how do you tell the difference between the older models and the GT series?

I don't see an actual model number on most of the ebay listings



On 02/02/2017 10:51 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 09:34 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/02/2017 07:02 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>
>> ... snip
>>
>>> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
>>> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models.  I'm
>>> working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not ready yet.
>>
>>
>> Did you have a plan or an overview of the update. I could look at it so
>> then two of us probably won't get around to it.
> 
> The GT-series use a totally different wire protocol from the earlier 
> non-GT VFDs.  Huanyang's manuals calls both protocols "Modbus", but the 
> older non-GT VFD protocol is definitely not Modbus, it's some unique 
> protocol Huanyang made up.  It was reverse engineered by someone named 
> "scotta" on CNC Zone, for which we owe a debt of gratitude.
> 
> The Huanyang GT-series VFDs implement Modbus correctly, so they will be 
> much easier to write a driver for.
> 
> The VFD we got unfortunately lacked the switch on the circuit board that 
> enables Modbus ("SW1"), instead it had a jumper wire there disabling 
> Modbus.  Wat.  After communicating with Huanyang we desoldered this 
> jumper wire and soldered it back in the "enable Modbus" position, and 
> that got it communicating.
> 
> So now it's just a small matter of programming, and writing some docs on 
> how to modify the hardware to allow it to communicate via Modbus.  I 
> should have something ready for testing in a few weeks.
> 
> Those Huanyang VFDs sure are inexpensive, but they're also the most 
> wonky and obstinate VFDs I've ever worked with.
> 
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 02 February 2017 11:29:52 Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

> On 02/02/2017 08:45 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 02 February 2017 10:02:59 Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >> On 02/02/2017 03:27 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> >>> I am using a typical eBay HuangYang VFD on the lathe, and it works
> >>> nicely with the HAL module (even though it isn't _actually_ real
> >>> modbus, or so I have heard)
> >>> Some eBay adverts make a point of stressing that they are selling
> >>> genuine HuangYang, not fake HuangYang.
> >>
> >> I've used Huanyang VFDs on machines at the local hackspace.  If you
> >> go this route, two notes of caution:
> >>
> >> 1.  Make sure to use an AC reactor on the input.
> >
> > How much reactance is needed?  And is this for electrical noise
> > reduction or ?
>
> We bought this one:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTE-RL-04501-AC-Line-Load-Reactor-3-Open-Type-
>3-Impedance-Transformer-/302102247034?hash=item4656b2767a:g:UsIAAOSwh2x
>X-zu7
>
> We're using 0.3 or 0.5 mH coils I think.

.3mH according to the picture at that link.

> It's not for noise reduction, it's to limit the inrush current and
> keep the upstream breaker from breaking, and the contactor from fusing
> its contacts.
>

I see, for similar reasons as the soft start on my bigger mill. Keep the 
breaker from tripping on power up. I doubt if this "Brick Wall" filter 
will have any great effect on that, besides, its a 1 hp, and a 1.5 hp 
rated vfd.  With big enough input filters to work on single phase, 254 
across the inputs.  At .3mh, for your's, you might be able to see the 
improved power factor, which would also be reflected in the power 
consumption.

> >> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
> >> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models. 
> >> I'm working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not
> >> ready yet.
> >
> > Is it so special that a PWMgen, set for PDM mode and a SpinX1 can't
> > run it?  Whatever this thing I bought actually is, that works fine.
> > Except for the electrical noise that is.  This takes advantage of
> > the PDM mode not being a discrete step, but inherently quite
> > stepless.  Response to the spindle override slider is both smooth
> > and fast, so CCS speed changes should be smooth and fast.
>
> I've never tried running our Huanyang VFDs via analog control or PWM,
> we always use Modbus.

I see.

Thanks Sebastion.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[andy pugh]

On 2 February 2017 at 16:51, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:
> Those Huanyang VFDs sure are inexpensive, but they're also the most
> wonky and obstinate VFDs I've ever worked with.

You haven't used the Lovato one that I had on my lathe first. I could
never get it to run the motor properly at high speed.
I fitted a HuanYang, and it just worked perfectly, pretty much out of the box.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations - braking resistor vs mechanical brake.

[Jon Elson]

On 02/02/2017 10:06 AM, James Reed wrote:
> The spindle brake is usually something that holds the spindle after stopping. 
>  I believe my Bridgeport has a ratchet which engages a gear.  Obviously, I 
> don't want to try to use that to bring the spindle to a stop.
>
>
All of the Bridgeports I've worked on had a band brake that 
gripped the driven pulley of the belt drive, and could be 
engaged safely from full speed.

Jon

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations - braking resistor vs mechanical brake.

[Jon Elson]

On 02/02/2017 09:42 AM, dragon wrote:
> Ed Fanta does rigid tapping on his CHNC. I don't believe that he has a
> breaking resistor on the VFD even. IIRC I watched the output of the
> SPINx1 and it just goes from a + voltage to a - voltage and does not
> "stop" he does have a fairly high line count BEI(?) encoder on the spindle.
>
>
Many VFDs have internal braking resistors.  The braking 
resistor is NOT specifically limited to stopping the motor.
It is used any time the bus voltage rises, as it certainly 
will when reversing the motor.  The resistor absorbs the 
energy removed while the motor is being slowed.  The braking 
resistor works great on my Bridgeport mill when doing rigid 
tapping.  Doing it on a lathe with a big chuck would make it 
even more important.  If the bus voltage rises too high 
without a braking resistor, the drive will get an 
over-voltage fault and go to coast mode, which will not be 
good for your tap or workpiece.  I used a vitreous enamel 
power resistor for the braking resistor on the Bridgeport, 
and two of them on my Sheldon (manual) lathe.  The braking 
resistors made specifically for VFDs are really expensive, 
must have something to do with safety certification or 
something.  I've heard of people using stove heating 
elements.  In fact, Haas machine tools have such an element 
in the cabinet!

Jon

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/02/2017 09:34 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 07:02 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>
> ... snip
>
>> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
>> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models.  I'm
>> working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not ready yet.
>
>
> Did you have a plan or an overview of the update. I could look at it so
> then two of us probably won't get around to it.

The GT-series use a totally different wire protocol from the earlier 
non-GT VFDs.  Huanyang's manuals calls both protocols "Modbus", but the 
older non-GT VFD protocol is definitely not Modbus, it's some unique 
protocol Huanyang made up.  It was reverse engineered by someone named 
"scotta" on CNC Zone, for which we owe a debt of gratitude.

The Huanyang GT-series VFDs implement Modbus correctly, so they will be 
much easier to write a driver for.

The VFD we got unfortunately lacked the switch on the circuit board that 
enables Modbus ("SW1"), instead it had a jumper wire there disabling 
Modbus.  Wat.  After communicating with Huanyang we desoldered this 
jumper wire and soldered it back in the "enable Modbus" position, and 
that got it communicating.

So now it's just a small matter of programming, and writing some docs on 
how to modify the hardware to allow it to communicate via Modbus.  I 
should have something ready for testing in a few weeks.

Those Huanyang VFDs sure are inexpensive, but they're also the most 
wonky and obstinate VFDs I've ever worked with.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/02/2017 08:45 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 02 February 2017 10:02:59 Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>
>> On 02/02/2017 03:27 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> I am using a typical eBay HuangYang VFD on the lathe, and it works
>>> nicely with the HAL module (even though it isn't _actually_ real
>>> modbus, or so I have heard)
>>> Some eBay adverts make a point of stressing that they are selling
>>> genuine HuangYang, not fake HuangYang.
>>
>> I've used Huanyang VFDs on machines at the local hackspace.  If you go
>> this route, two notes of caution:
>>
>> 1.  Make sure to use an AC reactor on the input.
>
> How much reactance is needed?  And is this for electrical noise reduction
> or ?

We bought this one: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTE-RL-04501-AC-Line-Load-Reactor-3-Open-Type-3-Impedance-Transformer-/302102247034?hash=item4656b2767a:g:UsIAAOSwh2xX-zu7

We're using 0.3 or 0.5 mH coils I think.

It's not for noise reduction, it's to limit the inrush current and keep 
the upstream breaker from breaking, and the contactor from fusing its 
contacts.


>> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
>> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models.  I'm
>> working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not ready yet.
>
> Is it so special that a PWMgen, set for PDM mode and a SpinX1 can't run
> it?  Whatever this thing I bought actually is, that works fine. Except
> for the electrical noise that is.  This takes advantage of the PDM mode
> not being a discrete step, but inherently quite stepless.  Response to
> the spindle override slider is both smooth and fast, so CCS speed
> changes should be smooth and fast.

I've never tried running our Huanyang VFDs via analog control or PWM, we 
always use Modbus.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/02/2017 07:02 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

... snip

> 2.  The LinuxCNC Huanyang driver only works with the older style of
> Huanyang VFDs.  It does not work with the newer GT-series models.  I'm
> working on a new driver for Huanyang GT VFDs, but it's not ready yet.


Did you have a plan or an overview of the update. I could look at it so 
then two of us probably won't get around to it.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations - braking resistor vs mechanical brake.

[Ed]

On 02/02/2017 09:42 AM, dragon wrote:
> Ed Fanta does rigid tapping on his CHNC. I don't believe that he has a
> breaking resistor on the VFD even. IIRC I watched the output of the
> SPINx1 and it just goes from a + voltage to a - voltage and does not
> "stop" he does have a fairly high line count BEI(?) encoder on the spindle.
>
> It works very well for him and he taps at surprisingly high spindle speeds!
>
No braking resistor and it still stops in 1/2 revolution at 200 RPM, 600 
RPM it stops in 2 revs, above that it is slower to stop. It has mounted 
a 6" power chuck to add to the spindle mass. With a 16C collet it stops 
much faster. It is running a Toshiba VFD rated at 7 1/2 HP.

Ed.


--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users