Re: [EVDL] AC Power export for Teslas
On 6/29/24 10:43, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 29 Jun 2024 at 9:55, Willie via EV wrote: Maximum guestimated range is down to about 230 (from 265) How many miles do you have on the odometer? I seem to recall predictions that Tesla batteries would last around 200,000mi, but I may be thinking of another EV. It has 172k miles. Tesla has "refurbished" the battery once under warranty. It has been loaned to people that have not well followed instructions and left it at 100% for hours. A failure in charge port resulting in it sitting totally discharged for a couple of weeks. It has been run to depletion several times. I remember reading of EV manufacturers whose battery warranties don't provide coverage until the battery is down to 60-70% of the nominal range. So if you're down to 230mi, that's 87% of original capacity - not bad for 10+ years! Well... the uncertainty about range estimate at shutdown places the lowest safe discharged condition to be about 45 miles. While "babying" the battery now dictates max charge levels of 80 or 90 percent, barely 200 miles. Safe/useful range, about 150 miles. With no FSD, navigation (the car is not so equipped), SuperCharging is now not free and is limited to about 80kw. I believe Tesla limits refurbished batteries to such low power. Compared to a more modern car, the 2013 is just not very attractive. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] AC Power export for Teslas
On 6/28/24 13:46, Phil Hochstetler via EV wrote: For me this would get much more interesting once my 8 year warranty is up on my 2018 model 3 as I no longer have a warranty for Tesla to void (2 years left for me). My 2013 S is long out of warranty and the battery is fading. A prime candidate for something like this. Twice, the battery has stranded the car with about 28 miles of estimated range left. Maximum guestimated range is down to about 230 (from 265). I recently took the opportunity to transfer that car's free SuperCharging to a new car; I have been using the 13 only locally both because the battery is not reliable and because FSD on other cars is so attractive. Has Phil estimated demand for such a device? I'm sure he has a feel for the number of candidate vehicles out there. And the number he might be able to sell. I'm guessing sales could approach 10% of the candidates? I'm guessing the candidate pool is now ~10k but will soon expand to hundreds of thousands. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Battery packs and UPS options?
On 1/19/24 16:46, fr What options exist to provide the equivalent of a Tesla PowerWall from the removed pack of this Rav4EV? Rather than fill up this vehicle oriented forum, perhaps a viewer can redirect me to a suitable forum? Also, I feel it's important to note that we have a PowerWall and 9Kw of solar PV and it would be great to make this all work together. I have real estate on the south wall adjacent to the PowerWall, no windows, power meter and primary cut-off all in the same location The below from me, not Fred. I plead editor impairment. I've had good luck augmenting my PW with ~250w micro inverters powered from 36 v batteries. Those 36v batteries coming from battery banks made up of ebike/hoverboard batteries and golf carts. All LFP or the ebike chemistry. I had a single battery PW which I eventually upgraded to three batteries and thus no longer attempt augmentation. I've fiddled trying to do similar with 12v out of both imievs and Teslas but was unable to get good ~36v out of 12v with cheap DC-DCs. I do recomnend 36v into microinverters. I have a couple of leftovers that I no longer have use for: 1) I bought three PW batteries to add to my single battery system but apparently killed one. Likely by crossing L1 and L2. I wish to find a home for the non functioning PW battery. Or find a repair path. 2) Long ago, I bought an EVTV off grid unit, 6kw/15kwh battery/inverter I think, intending to make another of my electric meters/transformers more immune to grid outages. I've lost interest in that project so would like to find it a home. I agree with Phil that PW upgrade is almost certainly the easiest and cheapest path. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Dead Teslas in Chicago
On 1/16/24 23:58, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: Teslas are lined up in extreme cold, waiting for Chicago Supercharger stations, where charging is very slow. Apparently some drivers have run out of charge trying to stay warm while waiting for a turn and had to call for a tow. Not a big surprise at ~-20C I suppose, but I don't recall reading of such problems in the Nordic countries. Maybe those owners are more likely to be educated about their vehicles, and to follow Tesla's cold weather recommendations. Not much is said about other EV brands, but there's no reason I can think of that Teslas should have any more cold weather charging problems than Bolts, Leaves, Kias, et cetera. News coverage of this event has been mostly without the bias that we typically see. The coverage did not mention that this problem is with a single SuperCharger location (out of thousands in USA) though that seems to be the case. I suspect that most that were affected were Tesla owners without home charging. The coverage I saw did mention that Teslas were likely to have greatly lower cold weather range losses than the various BrandXs, giving examples. Tesla is towing at least some of the affected cars to other charge locations. - Dead Tesla cars pile up at Chicago Superchargers in extreme cold A bunch of Tesla vehicles were unable to charge at Supercharger stations across Chicago amid an extreme cold wave. ... Chicago is seeing an extreme cold wave at the moment. Yesterday, the windy city had a temperature of 2F (-19C) that felt like- 20F (-29C) after the wind factor. These extreme temperatures have been blamed for issues at Tesla Supercharger stations across the city. ... Most Superchargers are marked as all-in-use with wait times ... https://electrek.co/2024/01/16/dead-tesla-cars-pile-up-chicago-superchargers- extreme-cold/ or https://cntp.me/ZF6ntkE - "I've been here for over five hours at this point and I still have not gotten to charge my car," Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS News Chicago, as car horns blared nearby. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours." ... Tesla has tips for drivers in the cold ... maintaining a charge of at least 20% ... warm[ing] the battery. ... using Trip Planner to navigate to a charging location for at least 30-45 minutes before arrival to ensure optimal Battery temperature and charging conditions ... "Always connect to an external, low voltage power supply before opening a door when the vehicle has no power," Tesla says, "to avoid breaking a window." [Yikes. I take it that Teslas have no hard-key backup.] https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-charging-extreme- cold or https://cntp.me/xlCSYgo - Most news sources are reporting it straight and without bias. A few are pushing the negatives. Thanks guys. Example: 'Don't Buy a Tesla': Chicago's EV Drivers Struggle With Sub-Zero Temperatures With temperatures consistently below zero in Chicago, electric vehicle drivers there have struggled to keep their EVs charged over the past few days. ... "I've never seen it like this before," says one driver on TikTok as she scrolls through her Tesla app, which shows 20- to 30-minute wait times at most Superchargers near her. "Don't get a Tesla," she says, unless you live in a warm climate. ... When PCMag took a Tesla Model 3 on a day trip around Chicago in January 2023, it achieved less than 100 miles of the advertised range and could not go more than an hour and a half without charging. ... https://www.pcmag.com/news/dont-buy-a-tesla-chicagos-ev-drivers-struggle- with-sub-zero-temperatures or https://cntp.me/lJQ6r4T David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices. -- Edward R Murrow = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Charge to 100% after discharging to 0% for BMS equalization.
On 1/14/24 20:39, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: Yeah, My procedure is to charge to 75% overnight normally, or higher if needed. 3-4 times a year I need to take a road trip, so I charge to 90% overnight, then 2 hours before I am about to leave, I'll take it to 100% to give it time to balance. (I have ternary/NMC not LFP) The pack doesn't sit too long at 100% when you hit the highway. You really don't need to worry too much about balance unless you see a drop in range, then do a balance, and if you get some range back after a week or so, do it again and ad nauseum until you don't see any gain. I think doing it a few times a year does a pretty good job of keeping it in-check, but all packs are different, so YMMV. I recently pulled my 2013 S85 (~170k miles) back from being loaned out. The person using it rarely took longish trips and tried to keep it charged daily to 90%. Probably above 50% most of the time. That is how it was treated for a couple of years. It was about 150 miles distant from my home; the trip home had several SuperCharging opportunities but I decided the extra charging would not be needed. About 15 miles from home, with estimated remaining range of 29 miles, the car abruptly ran out of energy. I ran the 12 v down while messing around trying to tow it home with a rope. Eventually, I got it flat bed towed (expensive 15 miles). Eventually got the 12v going and charged up the traction battery. Everything worked semi-well. With some trepidation, I tested the range estimate by driving ~8 mile circles around my house. I got it down to zero. Indicating that the range estimate was again semi-accurate. Incidentally, Tesla replaced several lead batteries approximately annually. When Tesla started demanding payment for 12v replacement, I put a LFP in. That 12v has been trouble free for about 5 years. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars | Reuters
On 1/13/24 11:38, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote: > all the buttons, stalks, switches, etc that mimic > obsolete cars and satisfies those with such fetishes. Exactly how is having commonly used controls that are needed for the safe operation of a vehicle right out in plain sight and easily adjusted without requiring the driver to take eyes off the road a "fetish"? C'mon, Willie look at what you just wrote! Seems more like Tesla is masturbating with technology in order to appear more modern than anything. Sure, put the setup and deep adjustments behind a screen, but if I want to control the heater, radio (I know, obsolete...) or wipers, let me just reach for the hardware control and continue to concentrate on driving (I know, also obsolete once FSD is a "reality"). Making vehicles with intuitive control layout is a safety feature. Maybe Tesla will switch the brake and accelerator pedals just to be "unique"? Thanks, you've made your bias clear. BUT, there are FAR more EV drivers that appreciate the value of Teslas, as they show by buying them, than all other, non-Tesla, EVs combined. You seem to argue that development of automobiles is near complete with no need to consider other ways of doing things. Tesla (and some other EVs) has made the brake pedal near obsolete. Indeed, we seem to be on the cusp of making human drivers obsolete. BTW, a few years ago, I gave you a batch of mostly "miniBMS" balancing modules. I have recently seen another batch. Do you want them? Condition unknown but likely mostly bad. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars | Reuters
On 1/12/24 22:25, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: Tesla moved controls to a touchscreen not because anyone asked for them there, but because Elon Musk himself, stuck in his adolescent science fiction world, wanted them there. You might explain your reasoning behind that rather illogical comment. Musk doesn't build cars for customers, he builds them for himself. If you happen to like what he likes, great. Otherwise, tough. Again, I can not see any reasoning on your part. The market is clearly deciding whether cost effective and minimalist controls will prevail. Or not. Someone can remind me what fraction of the market Tesla commands. There are plenty of inferior EVs out there that are offering all the buttons, stalks, switches, etc that mimic obsolete cars and satisfies those with such fetishes. That's been working surprisingly well for him, but that was before the unfolding "Cybertruck" disaster. That hideous, awkward, grossly inefficient lump belongs in a dystopian SF film, not on the road. If he stubbornly carries on with it, it will be Tesla's undoing. I see John did a fine job of refuting the above. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE
On 6/18/23 19:37, Jay Summet via EV wrote: Using a wall mounted L2 EVSE is nice, but many "portable" EVSE's provide plenty of amps and qualify as a "level 2" even if they are not wall mounted. (look for a 32 amp or higher one that plugs into a NEMA 14-50 receptacle) However, even a L1 "portable" EVSE that charges at only 8 or 12 amps, even at 120 volts can work for many EV users. As long as you can easily park/charge overnight, and have a large enough battery (and a low enough average driving distance requirement) even a "garden hose" can keep your EV fully topped up. 12 hours of charging a day can get you 20-40 miles of range every night. If you drive less than that on average, you will be fine unless/until you need to take back to back long trips, at which point you may need to visit a DCFC (Level 3) fast charger. Agree. I carry both a Mobile Connector and a cheap 16 amp EVSE which costs ~$150. The cheap EVSE can also use 200/240 as is available in hotels as heater/AC outlets and can give about twice the power as lower voltage. I haven't recently used/tested 200+ vac. I failed to carry my TT30 Mobile Connector adapter so I bought TT30P to "regular" 120R adapter from an RV place. I plug into that with a "regular" 120P pigtail that goes into a 14-50R into which my Mobile Connector plugs. I have to set the current back to about 20amps on the car. Normal split phase power gives me 5mph on the readily available block heater outlets. Three phase or generator power gives less power, maybe 3mph. The above TT30 setup gives around 10mph. Bottom line: I get 50+ miles on overnight stays using block heater outlets and ~100 miles from a "30 amp" TT30. Sometimes, I stop early in order to get more charge. Beyond Ft St John, "50 amp" RV outlets are extremely rare. The above range additions should be about right for both Tesla M3 and MY. After my recent trip experiences, I've decided I want a Maxwell type conversion van with at least a 300 mile battery AND perhaps 3+kw of deployable PV. Maybe something that rolls up. Ideas solicited. The argument that large batteries are unnecessary due to good train service in France will fall on deaf ears. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] Trip up Alcan and Klondike Highways to Dawson City
https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/ Posts are newest on top. The trip, so far is in about 15 posts with at least one more "coming soon". Most interest here is likely to be on my BrandX charger experiences. Cut me some slack on the fragmented presentation. I will likely do an EVDL post on my experiences with AC charging and needed adapters. I just re-arrived at the closest SuperCharger in Edson and found that Edson had been evacuated for six days. My hotel proprietor went to stay with friends in Edmonton. Most people are back now, though business has suffered. There seems no fire damage in the city. More later. Likely. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 127, Issue 14
On 6/4/23 11:38, Tom Hudson via EV wrote: Watching a lot of YouTube EV content, non-Tesla charging infrastructure is a sad joke. Kyle Connor of "Out of Spec Motors" has been reporting on CCS charging, including Electrify America, and it's not a pretty picture. It's not uncommon for an EA charging station with four units to have three that are inoperable. For WEEKS. It's worse in winter, when their choice of hardware can't cope with low temperatures. The "All Electric Family", out in Nebraska, had to be towed on at least one occasion due to inoperable CCS chargers (including EA). There are numerous accounts of people having to stay at a hotel as a result of being unable to charge on non-Tesla hardware.I don't know what people expected from EA, an entity born of the Dieselgate scandal and VW's lies -- they cobbled together equipment that wasn't designed to be used in vehicle charging, wasn't intended for outdoor use with wide temperature variations, didn't set up adequate maintenance schedules and called it a day.Ford seems to have effectively called it quits with CCS after CEO Jim Farley experienced some of this on an EV trip with his family (and I'm sure, outcry from customers who have to deal with this fiasco). They're switching to Tesla's NACS solution -- so much easier to use (the charging plug is a fraction of the size and slides into the port with zero effort) and vastly more reliable -- in 5 years of owning our Model 3, I think I've only seen TWO chargers out of order in hundreds of SuperCharger visits.Ford is only the first domino to fall, I think. Other manufacturers will (if they're smart) undoubtedly decide to go with the solution that costs them less money and delivers better customer experience.As we all know, 99% of day-to-day charging is done at home and DC fast charging is primarily for road trips. But when you take a trip, the charging has to be there -- enough locations and enough FUNCTIONAL chargers per location -- to make it practical.If I didn't drive a Tesla, a road trip would be a miserable exercise in "Range Anxiety" -- something my wife and I actually joke about on road trips, considering our first EV had less than 50 miles of range (just 17% of our Model 3's range) and no fast charging.- Farley IS showing great progress in his quest for redemption! I hope there will be a rush to abandon J1772/CCS in favor of "NACS". A comparison makes the choice obvious. J1772/CCS was clearly designed by anti-EV forces. Has Phil reconsidered NACS for use on the Maxwell conversion vans? BTW, from what I think I know of Phil, I think he should post his CV/bio. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chinese EVs are headed for the US
Danny Ames via EV wrote: I disagree that Tesla is about to lose its crown... Tesla is not going to lose its lead anytime, soon if ever. I suspect the future lies somewhere between these two extremes. Tesla isn't going to go away any time soon; but they are likely to remain in the performance/luxury car market, like Porsche and Ferrari. This could be an example of Tesla negative people not being "up to speed" on things Tesla. Tesla seems right on the verge of offering a ~$25k car. I believe that is the primary car being planned for GigaMexico production. In addition, ALL Tesla models are being groomed for lower cost production. The Chinese are going to take over the lower end of the market, which is being under-served by all the US carmakers. Maybe. I hope to live long enough to see. Right now, many/most/all legacy auto producers seemed doomed to bankruptcy. And, well deserved. IMHO. Lee ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging
On 5/22/23 23:30, Josh Landess via EV wrote: Thanks, I guess it is somewhat useful to be reminded of this. In the meantime: - I spoke to a fellow Model S 70 driver at a supercharger this past weekend who said that the 70s were well-known for particularly slow charging, but that he was happy (I'm understating his wording) in that his very slow-charging battery had gone bad and Tesla had replaced it under warranty with a 90 (they don't make 70 any more) that they had locked to 70. The net impact was that his supercharging rate was dramatically improved (about 2x as fast he said). He was of the view that he is being forced to just charge in the sweet spot of the 90, and this is why it is so fast. I think he said the minimum he has seen is 80 kW. This leaves open a question of: if I pay for a battery upgrade to 90, would it also be that fast. But, in any event, I think this one conversation seems valuable to assure me that it can be done (to get the faster speeds) even if Tesla for some bizarre reason will not ensure it, and I'm not certain of it. I also think it reduces my concern that Tesla might be making the 70s slow in order to incent trading in a vehicle equipped with the valuable free supercharging. - The speeds themselves that I am seeing are simply unacceptable. When I combine them with the small capacity, the vehicle I have is nearly un-usable for long road trips. It was really refreshing to be able to discuss this with a fellow driver. You may not be aware of the history of the smaller batteries. Phil will be the authority on the subject. 40kwh, 60kwh, and 70kwh were offered at various times. "Large" batteries were 85kwh, 90 kwh, and 100 kwh. In some, perhaps all, cases, the smaller batteries were the same as the larger but with software limits on use of the capacities. I don't believe 40wkh were ever delivered; I think they substituted software limited "60 kwh". There is a benefit to the "smaller" batteries: the charge rate does not much taper as full capacity is approached and you can charge to full (limited) capacity without fear of damage or life reduction. After the sales, "small" batteries could be unlocked, for a fee, and made to behave as the large batteries. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging
On 5/18/23 11:41, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 17 May 2023 at 22:49, paul dove via EV wrote: So, what is your alternative. A leaf? They were the only ones that made a usable vehicle. Why not a Leaf? Early ones had problems in hot climates, and I'm aware of some warranty coverage gripes. Despite that, quite a few people, including members of this list, have owned them and have gotten good service from them. We bought a new 2011 Leaf. Here in Texas, the battery lasted ~20k miles in ~2 years. Nissan dealers, on several occasions, declared the battery to be "normal" even though range was about 50 miles. Down from ~90. I could have joined the class action suit but did not want to fool with it. Just as I will not fool with Tesla about reduced SuperCharging power. But, I will never buy another Nissan car. Just as I will never buy another GM car. I will, almost certainly, buy more Teslas. I still keep track of that Leaf. It is near valueless. Not fooling with the class action suit was the right decision. The participants got VERY little satisfaction. GM still gets much grief for their behavior with the EV1. IMHO, it was their right to do what they did. There biggest sin was denying us NiMH chemistry for ~10 years. With NiMH a FAR better Leaf could have been developed and sold. As it is, EV adoption was delayed about ten years. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging
On 5/16/23 12:53, Josh Landess wrote:
It looks like you have quite a bit of first-hand knowledge in this
area. What speeds do you get on your older free supercharging (the
older models that have the free supercharging for the life of the
vehicle).
My 13S85 now does not charge above about 85kw. That came about after
Tesla "repaired" the original battery which had resulted in a
stranding. Though I've complained several times, I've received no
explanation. I suspect that they are limiting liability for future
battery replacements.
Even with about the same mileage, my 18M3 still hits 250kw on those
250kw chargers. That vintage car probably has batteries that will take
the higher charge rate. AND they pre-heat when they know they are
heading to SuperCharger. That pre-heat thing is surprisingly effective
in maximizing charge rates. The 18M3 can hit 1000mph because they get
more miles per kwh.
Older free SuperCharging cars are less desirable because newer hardware
has quite a few advantages. I have had the 13S85 for sale for a long
while at a premium price; it has not sold for my asking price (I value
the SuperCharging). The 13S85 does not even have navigation. Of
course, no AP/FSD. No pre-heating. Now, only the very newest cars with
"hardware 4" are likely to make good FSD cars. Though my 18M3
("hardware 3") is doing VERY well with FSD software.
With respect to the $2k offer that you mention, that is interesting,
that they had that. My questions include
- how much would a 10 or 20 year old model s be worth in the
marketplace, if it is well-maintained (such as with updated upholstery
when needed), if it has free transferable supercharging for the life
of the vehicle, and if the supercharger speeds and batteries are
updated and legit? $30k? $60k? More? Or perhaps not much more
than a comparable vehicle lacking the free transferable
life-of-vehicle supercharging. (keeping in mind that what we are
talking about here is road-tripping as much as one wishes for one's
entire life, in a sports sort-of-luxury vehicle without paying a dime
for electricity other than non-road-trips, or elected L2 charging such
as at hotels).
I don't think it is cost effective to replace a battery when it starts
losing significant range. It is not clear to me what a new battery
might do in an older car. Or, if newer batteries can even be installed
in older cars. I've seen customer paid battery replacements priced
about $15k. Long ago, in order to alleviate fear of reduced capacity,
Tesla offered to sell cars with an extra battery for additional cost of
$10k. The customer was to decide when (or if) the replacement battery
was to be installed. I do not know anyone who took advantage of that
offer.
- if the vehicle at some point in the future starts to reflect a
higher marketplace valuation, how does one reasonably insure it? i.e.:
at present, if one just buys normal insurance, I'm not sure a value is
put on the presence of free transferable life-of-vehicle supercharging.
I think transferable free SuperCharging clearly has SOME premium value.
I am unable to quantify that premium. I nearly sold 13S85 a couple of
times to people who clearly placed some value on it. At least one of
those sales was lost to someone else who offered similar car at a lower
price.
- how much is this valuation impaired if we know that the average
speeds over the course of a 20% to 80% charge are held to x (such as
45 kW)? (and side-question, at what point would enough lawyers and
drivers sue Tesla and possibly win for failure to deliver
"supercharging" as it is commonly understood? 40 kW? 30 kW? Less?)
I don't personally drive the 13S85 but feel like I could live with
reduced SuperCharging power rather than attempt to sue Tesla over the
issue. If the limit were down to 40kw, I would be far more
assertive/aggressive. That car's maximum observed charge power was not
much over 100kw, certainly below 120kw. Early in it's life,
SuperChargers were 90kw. After a few years, 120kw came along. Then,
150kw. Now, 250kw. Think all SuperChargers are now either 150
or250kw. Disregarding "Urban SuperChargers".
In Texas, I've seen SuperChargers going from none to five. At five, we
were an island; we could easily travel to all the more highly populated
parts of the state. Now, we have hundreds of SuperChargers and all
parts of the state are reachable. Though some places are a minor
challenge. I have been able to easily get to Big Bend even though the
nearest SuperCharger is in Ft Stockton which is perhaps 75 miles out
side the park boundaries.
Right now, I'm planning a trip to Alaska via the Alcan Highway. I was in
the area before Covid but turned around 150-200 miles north of the
northern most SuperCharger in Edmonton. Most RV parks in Yukon do not
have "50 amp" service and charging on "30 amp" outlets is limited to
about 10-15 mph. Now, there are some CCS/J1
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging
On 5/16/23 10:32, Josh Landess via EV wrote: In addition to what was covered in the article, the main thing that Tesla is doing to incentivize me to get out of the 2015 Model S 70 I am driving is to reduce the speed of the supercharging. It maxes out around 70 and pretty quickly gets below 60, 50, 40. Road trips, even when the charging is free, are hard when you have to spend an hour at a supercharger so frequently. I have looked into paying for an upgrade to 90 kWh, and they would be fine to sell me that, and it would not invalidate the free supercharging, but they explicitly told me that this would not necessarily result in a supercharger speed improvement. I would speculate the lack of clear path to paying for improving the supercharging speeds is deliberate. The net result in my view is that the long-term value of the vehicle is diminished, without apparently breaking any agreements. I intended to respond to the original post several days ago. But, did not get around to it. Tesla seems to be offering two free SuperCharging, each for three years, for S & X. If you buy a new S or X soon, you can get one deal. If you trade in (or allow Tesla to take away free SuperCharging) a S or X with free SuperCharging, you get another three years. I have a little used 2013 MS (160k miles with range down from ~270 miles to ~230) that I would be a candidate for giving up the SuperCharging. My most driven car is a 2018 M3 with free SuperCharging (93k miles with range down from ~320 miles to ~250) that will keep it's SuperCharging). Given the above, I was seriously considering a new S or X on which I could get six years of free SuperCharging. Low TSLA price deterred me. There is a question out there for economists to calculate the value of any electric vehicle that comes with long-term free transferable dc fast charging for the life of the vehicle. I have to believe that the free supercharging Teslas would be candidates to have their marketplace value rise and not fall, depending on certain factors. However, this business of Tesla reducing the supercharging speed of those vehicles I think accomplishes Tesla's apparent goal of reducing the value of the vehicle to the drivers. Perhaps this is helping them repatriate some of those vehicles and remove the supercharging obligations from their books (if they have an accounting treatment for it). I also wonder if there are economists who have tracked down whether Tesla publishes anything for this obligation in its financial statements, and if so, what can be gleaned from any value that Tesla is putting on the charging and the vehicles. I have no clear concise answers to those questions. Back in 2012-2013, it was thought that the free SuperCharging was valued at about $2k. A S60 was offered with either free SuperCharging or not. With a $2k difference in price. I recognize that my infatuation with free SuperCharging is not entirely rational. My SuperCharging use is at least 10k miles/year, perhaps as many as 20k miles.. It seems like paid SuperCharging is now up around or above $.35/kwh. That would be more than $.10/mile. My home charging costs me between $.03 and $.10 /kwh. $.01 to $.04 /mile. Paid SuperCharging would likely cost me at least $.06/mile more than charging at home. So, I might put the value of free SuperCharging to be at least $600/year. Unless I've made some arithmetic error(s). :-) ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging
On 4/24/23 15:11, paul dove via EV wrote: To be honest though, unless you drive a lot it doesn't save much to have free supercharging. I used 3561 Kwh in the last 12 months. I pay $0.11 a kwh at home and I believe the same at a supercharger in my area. So, roughly $400 a year. Even if you double that to $800 a year it takes a long time to get to $5000. Plus it says they were offering 6 years free supercharging to boot. I don't see how this is in any way a negative but just extra incentive to upgrade if you were looking to.. I believe typical SuperCharger rates are now at or above $.35/kwh. It varies by local utility and local regulation but, whenever I have been able to check, the rate has been about $.35 through the middle and east side of the USA. I make that to be more than $.10/mile. Charging at home costs me $.03-$.10/kwh. $01-$.03/mile. I don't keep a tally but I think I do 5k-10k highway miles a year. So, I might value my free SuperCharging to have a value to me of about $500-$1000/year. My 2022 MY does not have free SuperCharging but my 2018 M3 does. I NEVER take my MY on a road trip. A few years ago, I figured my SuperCharging was only about twice home charging but rates have gone up. I have not been solicited for the most recent trade in offer. The slightly older offer was an extra $5k value on trading in free SuperCharging S/X for another S/X. Not at all attractive to me. Especially since trade ins to Tesla are generally below market value. The new offer is supposed to replace the $5k trade in credit with 3 years of free SuperCharging on the new S/X. A bit more attractive to me but still insufficient. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Motley Fool issues all in advisory for Tesla
On 3/16/23 12:01, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: Bully for Tesla if the 3 or Y is #1 or #2 or whatever in European EV sales. Do you know what was the fastest selling vehicle in Europe in Janiuary? The Dacia Sandero, a plain vanilla supermini (B-segment) hatch. Well You might consider what is more valuable to society, Tesla or Renault. Can Renault earn enough selling Dacias to fund multiple large factories to enable building them in great numbers? Is there sufficient market right now to support selling millions of Dacias? If you think the answers are "yes", why is that not happening right now? TSLA will likely become enormously valuable to society as well as E Musk and TSLA stock holders. That accomplished by relentless pursuit of cost reductions and vertical integreation, resulting in high margins, resulting in enormous amounts of income, resulting in funding of "giga factories". BTW, where is MY Dacia Sandero? And yours? Apparently, Renault is not satisfied with USA market potential. Either that or Renault thinks it can make more money by denying cheap small EVs to the USA market. Perhaps Renault has insufficient cash to scale up Sandero production? Perhaps Sandero margins are not attractively high? Might you admit that Renault is the bigger offender in this situation? Fairly or unfairly, in my mind Renault is tainted by their early participation in the Leaf fiasco. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] How is tihis possible?
On 3/11/23 06:21, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: I wonder if these were two colleagues that got their company vehicles and accidentally received the wrong Tesla account for their App, so that while the keys worked on their own car, their Apps worked on each other's cars... Simple and not surprising, but you can get a lot of attention writing a critical article about Tesla these days. NOTE how the guy continued to use the other guy's car instead of returning it immediately, that suggests that they were no strangers. Also the other guy contacting him with a laid-back response asking if he took their car, gives me the idea that they already knew each other before all this. There are some question marks surrounding this article. I believe you are likely correct, Cor. Considering the source, I did not pay much attention to the details. But, you are correct in that Tesla owners can give online access to their cars via multiple "driver" assignments. It used to be pretty tedious for owners to give such privileges. Action from a human at Tesla was required. But, Tesla responds to customer suggestions and now assigning up to five drivers for each car can easily be done online and without human intervention. The alternate drivers receive app access only to the cars for which they have been authorized and through their own Tesla app. The following are suggestions for media topics that are not bias as was this one under discussion. 1) FLASH! Tesla responds to customer suggestions by making it easy and fast to assign car access to alternate drivers. 2) FLASH! Both owners and assigned drivers now have more routing information available through the Tesla apps. Previous, remote viewers of a car's locations did not know the target destination or locations of nearby charging opportunities. With a software update, both those information items are now available through the app. 3) FLASH! Tesla drivers making use of FSD have about 1/10 the probability of being involved in a traffic accident compared to drivers of other cars and compared also to Tesla drivers that chose not to use FSD. There is a wealth of good Tesla news, continuously flowing, that can be honestly reported. The only reason for pervasively negative Tesla media coverage, I believe, is that no advertising dollars are flowing from Tesla. Yet, we see little other than Tesla negative news. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] open access to tesla chargers
On 2/15/23 08:51, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: By the end of 2024, Tesla will make some of it's chargers available to everyone. White House: Tesla to make some EV chargers available to all https://www.seattletimes.com/business/white-house-tesla-to-make-some-ev-chargers-available-to-all/ ... The plan will make at least 7,500 chargers from Tesla’s Supercharger and Destination Charger network available to non-Tesla EVs by the end of 2024, the White House said. ... Tesla, General Motors, EVgo, Pilot, Hertz and other companies also have agreed to expand their networks by thousands of public charging ports in the next two years, using private funds and federal spending from the infrastructure law, “putting the nation’s EV charging goals even closer within reach,” the White House said. ... While the White House said the Tesla network should be available through use of a company app or website, an adaptor — or even a new charger design — will likely be required for non-Tesla EVs, Abuelsamid said. There is a good recent YouTube Tesla blogger video I viewed yesterday. As I recall, the takeaways were that Tesla can put in SuperCharger stalls for $39k-$50k per stall while the BrandX chargers look to cost $200k or more. Tesla can install several SuperCharger stalls for what a single BrandX cost. He also made the point that availability on SuperChargers is above 99% while BrandX is typically more like 80%. I don't think BrandX has plans for more than 300kw on a single connection while Tesla is supposed to soon be installing more "MegaChargers" which are supposed to do 1mw. On top of that, Tesla offers FAR more manageable connectors and absolutely painless billing. The video should not be hard to find but I'll find and post a URL if asked. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower
On 2/8/23 23:11, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Well, not something you would take on the road, but I'm glad to see a major manufacturer, John Deere, producing an electric riding lawn mower. The small gas engines are the worst polluters and the noise in the neighborhoods has got to go, too. https://electrek.co/2023/02/08/john-deere-launches-first-electric-zero-turn-mower/ ... The electric mower features a 3.2 kWh (3.56 kWh maximum) sealed lithium-ion battery capable of mowing up to two acres per charge. I think I saw an ad for the coming JD ZTR electric. I think I saw $6k-$8k go by. I also think it was advertised as the first electric ZTR. I've had more experience with electric riders than I should have subjected my myself to. I've had a Roybi 38" 48 volt for about three years. It is the very worst and most unreliable powered mower within my experience. I've been through THREE mower blade motors and the thing has anemic power. After I found i was unable to get my mowing done with it, I bought a 42" Cub Cadet ZTR. It, so far, has been mechanically reliable. But, it only works when conditions are to it's liking. It seems to charge only when air temperature is below 100 deg. During the summer, I usually went out early in the mornings to restart the charging and could not mow until the heat of the day approaches. There are quite a few other issues for both mowers. I am reminded of my EV conversion experiences. My Hyundai conversion was the most expensive to operate car that I have ever owned. It went 50k miles before gave up on it and jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire by buying my 2011 Leaf. I figure my cost to own/operate the Hyundai was well over $1/mile. OTOH, my first $80k Tesla (2013) has about 180k miles on it with very little operating or repair expense. Recommendations on good, trouble free, durable, reliable electric riders solicited. I have had good luck with Black and Decker lithium push mowers. At $100-$150, they are cheap enough to replace when/if they become troublesome. I feel stuck with my pair of crappy riders which cost, together, about $7k. It rankles me, but I now have to do most of my mowing with a Kubota 48" diesel. Though I detest it, I can keep it going and can fall back on the dealer when needed. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
On 11/12/22 12:20, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 12 Nov 2022 at 16:37, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: The Bolt EV is close, but I think it's charge time is about 1h 20, which makes it impractical for road trips. I guess that would depend on your definition of "practical," and how long the trip is, and thus how many charging sessions are required. When last I looked, the Bolt's price - under $26k! - was tough to pass up. That is just astounding for a 259 mile range. The difference between that and, say, a Tesla 3, would buy a heck of a lot of road trip ICEV rentals. Here is a semi-relevant anecdote. A month or so ago, I was driving a Kentucky freeway (not toll) and charged at a "plaza" that is between the two roadways. The plaza had about 8 Tesla stalls and 2 BrandX stalls. I don't think I've ever seen an EV charging at a BrandX before. I was thrilled to see a Bolt charging when I arrived. No Bolt person was there and I went in the truck stop for a head break. When I returned, I found the Bolt person and got his story. He had recently changed jobs and moved from California to Kentucky and lives near that plaza. That is, he was just testing the charger rather than making a cross country trip. He had had the Bolt towed from California and seemed to be using it only locally. We chatted a bit but it was time for me to leave. The Bolt was still charging when I left. One other Tesla had come and gone in that period. Side anecdote: When a fee is charged for Tesla SuperCharging, the fee seems mostly around $.35/kwh. I think the BrandX charger in Kentucky fee was about $.32/kwh. I was surprised since I thought BrandX fees were generally around $.45/kwh. OTOH, I think that is TVA territory. If so, electric rates may be lower than other areas. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
On 11/12/22 10:58, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Yeah, I have my words for the 2011 leaf, too. But, really, I have to hold my complaints. I wanted the first commercially available EV (in my area) and that was the first choice (perhaps the iMiev would have been slightly better, don't know). I'm happy to have been driving an EV for over 11 years ! I bought two new 2014 imievs in 2015 and 2016. They have been relatively trouble free but I have been unable to put many miles on them. FAR less troublesome than the Leaf. Well under 20k miles each. Volume on those cars has been so low that I do not expect a replacement battery business. to develop. I do not understand why Leaf volume has not stimulated such business. Service for imievs has pretty well disappeared as it has for Leafs. Both my imievs have several error lights displayed but I figure they are not worth attempting a fix. I have a semi-amusing story about getting the imievs air bags fixed. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
On 11/12/22 10:37, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Does anyone know if there are people or shops willing to do a battery replacement for a 2011 leaf in the greater seattle area ? The range in my Leaf was a dismal 20 miles in our sub zero weather last winter. It certainly isn't going to be any better this winter :) I've been looking to simply buy a new EV, which may make the most sense, but am not finding anything that meets my needs and isn't too expensive. I'd like something I can take on modest road trips, which means I would want a reasonably fast L3 recharge from 10% to 80%, like 30 minutes. And not over $40k including tax, etc. The Bolt EV is close, but I think it's charge time is about 1h 20, which makes it impractical for road trips. There are several models, e.g. Kona, which I think are a bit over $40k all costs included that charge in, perhaps 40 minutes (probably acceptable). But another option could be to extend the life of my leaf and see what options are on the market in 2-3 years. I need to look at that before making a decision. If I keep the leaf, it wouldn't be for road trips. But I would like to be able to make a 50 mile RT in 0F weather. That probably means having a 30kWh battery, at least. I'm figuring about 60% range at 0F and 30kWh should give somewhere close to 100 miles under good conditions, right ? Does anyone know if there are still people replacing 2011 leaf batteries in the greater seattle area ? No direct help, but I have been monitoring the situation since when I bought my POS Leaf in 2011. I expected the battery to last ~10 years at which time I could more cheaply buy a bigger/better replacement. Well, you know what happened. Please post if you find anything interesting. If you put labor into getting into the battery, it may be best to get much higher than OEM capacity. Actually, I now consider only the Nissan battery a POS, not the entire car. It DOES seem that there should be more battery replacement options available. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
On 5/21/22 12:51, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: AP and FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an accident than a driver that does not use it. Citation needed, if you don't mind. Not Tesla stats, please. If other statistics are available, I am unaware. However, except to time lines, I have a high level of trust in Musk. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
On 5/21/22 12:51, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: There are also folks for whom Musk's crassness, disregard for environmental, financial, and labor laws, and abuse of employees (especially women and minorities) are features, not bugs. I don't know enough about Musk to offer such a firm opinion; either positive or negative. I do offer that Musk is not treated fairly or honestly my MSM for reasons I outlined. Essentially, Musk does not expend resources defending himself well in the media. Which is fine by me. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
On 5/20/22 13:29, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote: I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without Tesla and Musk. That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward both. Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too. Well I remain bumfuzzled. I just can not see from your viewpoint. For decades, you and many of us here have striven to promote adoption of EVs. In the past ~10 years, we have enjoyed astonishing success. To most, it is clear that Tesla/Musk is the near sole cause. Yet you try to argue that it would be happening in the absence of Tesla/Musk. And, you fault Musk not on his accomplishments but on his personality. Thereby denying/refuting/ignoring those accomplishments. Personally, I find most auto advertising insulting. I cite recent Cadillac EV advertising that the Cadillac buyer can be "iconic" and all sorts of vague meaningless terms. Tesla is highly admirable in choosing to let customers sell cars through honest evaluations. With ZERO advertising. A very significant side effect is that Tesla has near zero support from mainstream media. That, because of the tremendous ad revenues coming from traditional auto makers and dealers. I do wish Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I consider that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments. But, Musk is savaged by MSM and many are swayed by MSM, not really doing much independent thinking. On FSD: as others have pointed out, it is an option. It need not be bought or used if bought. Despite all the negative MSM coverage, AP and FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an accident than a driver that does not use it. I fail to understand how critics remain critical in the face of such facts. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
On 5/19/22 13:09, EV List Lackey via EV wrote You can't stomach the idea of buying a GM product after what they did to the EV1? That's OK too. GM's primary sin was not what they did to EV1. But, what they did to NiMH. One might argue that they had every right to bury both but NiMH was, by far, farther reaching and more damaging to the EV Revolution. Really, just 15 years ago, who would have thought it? I completely agree and am suitably surprised. And who/what is responsible for the current situation? I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without Tesla and Musk. That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward both. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
On 5/19/22 09:33, Jay Summet via EV wrote: On 5/19/22 01:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: There's no way (at least that I'm aware of) to override [the charge timer]. It's plain idiotic. On my 2015 leaf, there is a dash button "Charge Timer Off" (it's an icon with a sorta clock and plug with the word "Off"). If you want to charge manually, you plug in the car, and THEN push that button, and it will charge normally that one time. It is annoying in that you can't press it when getting out of the car...you have to go around to the front, plug in (the three top of dash lights will light up in a "follow" pattern one by one to indicate that the chaging timer is active) and then you have to open the driver door again to push the button, at which point you'll hear the clicks of the battery contactors engaging and the charging lights will go into their normally "charging in progress" mode. An observation: These idiosyncrasies and work arounds due to poor design on Leafs would be entirely forgivable had Nissan been committed to customer support and making incremental improvements. Instead, Nissan mostly abandoned the Leaf and forced early adopters to sue for relief from the poor battery design. On the plus side, this group of converters has greatly benefited from the cheap used battery supply due to the low value of used Leafs. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Hummer EV
On 4/21/22 14:43, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 21 Apr 2022 at 14:15, Willie via EV wrote: I would hope than (->that) most here are familiar with how GM caused NiMH to not be available for EV use until lithium chemistries matured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_bat teries Here, the above URL needs some reassembly. Googling on "nimh patent encumbrances" should do it. Incidentally, the Leaf section was added only in the past few years and is "impactful", as the talking heads like to say. GM's corporate trickery - partly enabled by Stanford Ovshinsky's stunning level of (claimed) naivete - set EV development back at least 15 years. He does deserve some small amount of the blame. But, consider the situation: 1) This was before GM made their reputation with the EV1 and NiMH. 2) In his WKTEC interviews, he seemed a little befuddled and used his wife as a "minder". He died only about six years later. Sadly, before he was able to publicly address the question: "What do you think about what GM did to NiMH?". 3) He had struggled getting NiMH accepted. Then, apparently hit the jackpot with GM. He expected GM to use in EVs and popularize. Perhaps spend more on development than Stan was able. That was his goal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_R._Ovshinsky I think "trickery" is far too gentle a word to describe GM. Immoral. Dishonest. Other terms solicited. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Hummer EV
On 4/21/22 12:30, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: Hi Everyone, After reading up on the Hummer EV, it seems like it might be the EV-equivalent of the ICE F-150. Engineering Explained did a video on it, and he explained that any ICE vehicle getting better than 22 MPG is less wasteful than the Hummer EVwhen battery manufacturing emissions are accounted for. Yikes! I would hope than most here are familiar with how GM caused NiMH to not be available for EV use until lithium chemistries matured. If you do not understand what GM did to the EV movement, WKTEC is a good place to start. Short story: I personally will never be a potential GM customer for any type of car. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Mysterious new form factor Tesla chargers
On 4/5/22 18:46, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: Larger than destination but smaller than Superchargers. Has Trip 1/2 near plug. In Potrero Center 16th and Potrero. San Francisco. I failed to see two more chargers across the road from the main installation. Lawrence Rhodes https://youtu.be/PFFNgEwgC_4 Without looking at your youtube, I would guess it might be an "urban" SuperCharger. About 75kw instead of 150-200kw. Usually deployed on a fork liftable base. Much faster (and cheaper) installation than "real" SuperChargers. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Followup: Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall
Another factor is, as I recall, the timid Leaf regen. "One pedal driving" is much more difficult than with an EV with aggressive regen. I found I was asking myself "Why are there brake complaints?" . Then, I realized that friction braking may create a 12v load while regen likely does not. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Car carrier on fire abandoned in Atlantic
On 2/18/22 1:09 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I think we'll find out. I believe reporters are interested whether an EV caused the fire, since EVs are still relatively novel and EV fire incidents are controversial, in the public's eye. This source mentions some ID4s were in the cargo. It seems likely that there were some Porsche EVs also. http://www.itechpost.com/articles/109206/20220218/volkswagen-porsche-cars-burning-felicity-ace-cargo-ship-what-s.htm I have a little VWAPY which was down only 2% today. This could be an enormous hit to VW. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Car carrier on fire abandoned in Atlantic
On 2/18/22 12:07 PM, jim--- via EV wrote: Unfortunately, that link requires an account to read. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cargo-ship-felicity-ace-fire-atlantic-ocean/? It appears the fire could have come from VW or Porsche EVs. Though I saw no specific mention. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 2/12/22 10:39 AM, Steves via EV wrote: Tesla has the infrastructure there already. Why not piggyback onto their network. Pay Tesla to add a few chargers for other cars at each of their stations. Be relatively cheap that way. And yes it’s promoting a charging monopoly, but they do have a great system. The SuperCharger network TOWERS over the competition in all ways you can think of: siting, maintenance, reliability, ease of billing/payment, charge speed, pervasiveness. IMHO, Tesla is waiting for congress to specify exactly how Tesla would benefit from opening the network. Most likely, "opening" will be via adapters rather than additional cables. Many Tesla drivers fear congestion should the SC network be opened. That view is offset by the fact that Tesla is, by far, the best selling EV. That is, opening the network will have trigger only a modest amount of congestion at this time. The infusion of cash from additional charging sales would enable Tesla to greatly expand the SC network. Tesla has a great reputation for putting SCs where they are needed and for increasing the capacity of SCs with big demands. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US
On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. I say that we wait for mass ev adoption to happen(which will happen very soon). After this, businesses and apartment building owners will pay for ev charging stations out of their own pocket because having ev charging as an amenity will attract more customers/tenants. Some hotels are already starting to do this. A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending billions of dollars that it does not hav ABSOLUTELY! In addition, government contributions are not needed and any government money would almost certain to be misspent. Examples abound. Tesla has the charging problems solved. Compare SuperChargers with EVGO and the VW system. All Tesla needs is a small fraction of the money that Biden wants to spend. Tesla knows the charging problem and how best to solve it. Instead, Biden wastes his efforts denying the existence of Tesla while proclaiming the EV dominance of GM. Why does Biden expect credibility? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Power/Energy misunderstanding
I've been working on a power/energy description to try to correct some misconceptions a neighbor has revealed. Suggestions on improvements solicited: https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2022/01/powerenergy-confusion.html ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] How do I tell Google I travel by electric?
On 1/18/22 11:58 AM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 18 Jan 2022 at 4:32, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: Is that something that you copied and pasted from Google then? I knew they were snoops and busybodies. Do they follow you around now and watch what kind of car you're driving? The less Google knows about me, the better I like it, so I can't help you with how to *voluntarily* tell them that you "travel by electric [car]." Maybe someone else can. I imagine Lwwrence is referring to a maps.google monthly report. I find them quite useful to remind me where I've been and what I've done. AFAIK, the tracking is of your smart phone only; they know nothing about your car or mode of transportation. They do use your known locations to solicit reviews and ratings of restaurants, hotels, etc. Especially since I benefit from the review of others, I am happy to comply when my time allows. My guess is that they use speed to guess the mode of transportation. In the past 12 months, I am reported to have driven over 17k miles and bicycled 21 miles. I suspect that "bicycling" includes golf carting around my place. Of course, all my driven miles are in a Tesla. Google may well suspect an EV since I am asked to review SuperChargers. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Upgrading to 80 amps
On 11/3/21 8:21 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: I don’t know why! I have a Tesla Model S with 100kwh battery. My onboard charger is 10 or 12 kw. So 50 amps is the most the car will take anyway. Unless you are putting in an ac to dc inverter EVSE I don’t see any advantage I think someone mentioned that quite a few early Ss and Xs had dual onboard chargers. Each capable of pulliing 40 amps. 80 amps total. I think also mentioned was sharing a charge circuit. Two Model 3s might be capable of pulling, what is it?, 36 or 38 amps? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
On 10/24/21 4:35 PM, (-Phil-) wrote: I'd say there's no way Tesla is going to "open up" the supercharging network in the US, even in the next 2 years, let alone the end of this year. They can (and are being legally required to) in Europe, where they have already switched most of their network to 100% compatible Type 2 CCS. The US has 100% proprietary, no other EVs are compatible with this. On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 12:44 PM Willie via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>> wrote: Tesla is supposed to open the SuperCharger network before the end of the year. This is the basis of my statement: https://electrek.co/2021/08/03/tesla-opening-supercharger-network-access-7-billion-ev-funding-us/ There was a flurry of similar reports at that time and I believe Tesla has stated that it is "in the works". I think some federal funding depends on it happening before the end of the year. If I'm out of date, please tell me news I've missed. I have heard nothing of it in the past month or so. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211024/976d2a30/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Study compares electric vehicle charge costs vs. gas — and results were misleading Yahoo
On 10/24/21 6:27 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: My email conversation with Jamie the author of the article to see her excuses/vetting. Read from bottom to top for proper date alignment. Yahoo Mail Lawrence, did you get the impression that you were trying to have a conversation with a post (as in fence post)? Sadly, I think that is the case. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
On 10/24/21 3:22 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: And I say, in most cases, an EV is a poor choice for those city dwellers. Especially true of the original 100 mile EV's. But now that 250 miles is kmore common, it is true that an urban EV owner that has a short commute and o nly 20 miles a day of car use, could get by with weekly charging, but I just cannot imagine anyone who would like to FIND an availalbe L2 charger and then to plugin, and then have to come back 3 hours later. And if one thinks that it is getting harder to find an available charger, just wait, it will only get worse. Tesla is supposed to open the SuperCharger network before the end of the year. People worry about congestion not realizing that most EVs on the road today are Teslas. I predict that the opening of SuperCharging will not have a great effect on congestion. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
On 10/24/21 12:44 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less expensive ones have disappeared. I fairly recently bought item 392904450364 on eBay for $190. 16 amp 120/240 with NEMA 6-20 plug and a NEMA 5-15 adapter for it. Not easily wall mountable. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] EVs and Tesla
On 10/20/21 5:39 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Can you believe it? T Tesla wins again! The stock was $65 just 2 years ago in 2019 and is over $860 now... I was about to try to refute your numbers. But, I checked and found you correct. This climb in value has seemed (to me) to have lasted longer. Just sayin... Anyone who bets against Tesla or EV's for the future is headed for disappointment. I will caution that prior performance is not necessarily a predictor of future. But, I will venture that failure for Tesla now seems near impossible. I recently reflected on the Tesla/Musk negativism I've noticed. Both here and elsewhere. https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2021/10/teslaspacexmusk.html Included is a link to the recent PBS episode of "In Their Own Words". I consider it almost as important as WKTEC. For the past year or so, I've been seeking paths of equity ownership of SpaceX. I remain not well satisfied. BTW, I bought my first TSLA in 2013 for less that $40 (pre split). Sadly, I lacked faith and traded some. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] HV DC input -to- 120VDC output inverter???
On 10/17/21 8:22 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: On Sun Oct 17 17:09:32 PDT 2021 e...@vanderwal.us said: Won't work for an inverter off my truck pack, as it's only 320v. Won't work with the 'battery' connection, but you could hook you truck battery to the PV input. In order to get the battery connection to work you'd have to hack the communications protocol between the inverter and the battery controller. What others have done is just hook their EV pack to the PV panel input, supposedly any DC input between about 120V and 550V should work. Any well documented cases of hooking a battery pack to the PV input? I've heard too many stories about frying inverters that way in the past, as the MPP circuit really doesn't like a low-impedance input like you get from a battery pack. If 36vdc batteries feeding grid tie micro inverters fits your description, I've written about what I do as a PowerWall supplement. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] HV DC input -to- 120VDC output inverter???
On 10/17/21 3:20 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: They are still available on Ebay for $400. Darn nice price for a 6KW inverter. Does appear to have a split-phase 240, 120/120 output. Dual Solar panel (200v-500v) inputs. I went digging around the specs, and it appears that battery input needs at least 400V. I found various discussions online about configuring it, using it off-grid, etc... Yes, the eBay seller, Signature, was my source. I'm surprised they still have some; they've been selling them for several years. They are very nice and cost effective grid tie inverters if your panels work well with transformerless inverters. I would be using many H6s if I did not have to carefully select panels for them. If you use modern panels, they will likely work well for you. If anyone researches and finds credible accounts of daytime off grid power working, please point me to them. I don't think anyone has used them with a battery. Solar City seems to have them made by Delta for an old DC PowerWall battery which is either VERY rare or never made. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] HV DC input -to- 120VDC output inverter???
On 10/17/21 1:48 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote: Have you tried connecting your Volt or Bolt to this inverter? On Sunday, October 17, 2021, 11:07:44 AM EDT, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: You mean like a Solarcity H6 (AKA Delta H6)? When Tesla bought out Solarcity they dropped this inverter, someone has been clearing them out on Ebay for $400 or so. It was originally designed to wrok with something like a Powerwall for backup power, but will work without it and people have reported success with connecting the HV battery packs on EVs to the PV input (accepts 120V to 550V input) I have several Delta H6s. They were attractively priced to use just as a string inverter. I've diddled with the not grid tie inverter outputs but never got it to work. But, I don't have any great need for that function. A PV supply place, dealing mostly in surplus, was selling them out of Sulphur Springs Texas. As cheap as about $400. I don't know that they have any left but I can dig out contact information if anyone wants. I have several unused, some broken, if anyone wants to try to get out of central Texas. I don't want to fool with shipping. These are "transfomerless" inverters and do not work reliably with the cheap panels I use from Santan. I'm open to trading for old transformer inverters. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] "H2 is lighter" (Was OT: fuel cell mining truck)
On 9/10/21 10:52 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 10 Sep 2021 at 5:04, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Maybe the Mirai tank system is really tight. Otherwise, I'm really curious: why haven't there been any reported H2 explosions ? Could it be partly because they've sold only about 8,500 of them since 2015? Low sales volume means fewer opportunities for faults to develop. Put another way, they have data to detect a 1/1000 or 1/1 risk over very few years. Compare to risk of BEV battery fire. WAG: 1/10 over about five years. Or the risk of using Tesla AutoPilot which makes the car around 10 times as safe as a car not using AP. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] "H2 is lighter" (Was OT: fuel cell mining truck)
On 9/10/21 7:31 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: There is no doubt that the H2 systems, including the tank, are thoroughly leak checked. H2 is straightforward to detect in minute quantities. However, the world is an imperfect place. Screws fall out. Leaks occur. I am surprised that they omit advising against parking indoors in the owner's manual. Another line of thought: With perhaps increasing fool cell adoption, might escaped hydrogen become a problem with the atmosphere? Perhaps it gets oxidized and returns to earth as water? No apparent problem there. Perhaps it escapes earth's gravity? If so, it would result in a net reduction of water on earth. Perhaps a worrisome problem? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 250V high line effects on solar EVs
On 9/4/21 9:34 AM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: Thanks Lee My extension cord power company said they won’t do anything unless it hits 7% over 240V and since I’m near the substation , I see it 250-252V so the folks at the end of the line miles away aren’t too low. Most local pole peg transformers don’t have taps anymore to save $$ so it’s up to the customer to put bucking transformers in on sensitive equipment. Most appliances are power loads with the wattage the same as they draw less current (no change in meter billing) at a high line condition but solar inverters must run higher than the line to push back current. They use the switching power supply universal 85-264V operational range so always operating near the high end. I told Enphase to bump up their voltage to be mid range operational but they won’t do it due to increased cost for higher voltage components. I can copy the club. I don’t have a problem with gmail although sometimes the settings block Outlook email and have to reset to allow secondary devices. Here are some musings that some may find relevant. Or, maybe not. When I started putting in PV, I noticed my line voltage wast about 245. I had a 15kva transformer which, in this rural area, is normal for not all electric house. All electric houses tend to get 25kwa. I've never seen a 50kva for a "normal" residence. As I install more and more PV, I noted my voltage climbing. Sometimes, some of my micro inverters would shut down presumably when they saw 265v. Some of this high voltage was due to marginal branch circuits which I worked to alleviate. I found when my meter voltage reached about 255, I had inverters shutting down somewhere. Consulting my utility: they put a voltage monitor in my meter for a few days and found it, indeed, high. I suggested to them that I would be happy with more like 230v which would have given me more "head room" at inverters. They claimed to no longer installing multi-tap transformers which could have, at least temporarily, alleviated the problem. I ended up having them replacing, at my cost, the 15kva with a 37.5kva. I was walking on thin ice because my PV agreement called for me to produce no more that 10kw. I eventually accepted an agreement that allowed me to produce 50kw. I am now pushing the capacity of the 37.5kva; I see delivered power as high as 30kw. In case it is not obvious, producing power raises voltage just a using power reduces. My understanding of that and transformer capacities developed only as my PV projects proceeded. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] LIVE stream 8/31/21 1540 PST A physicist consultant to power utilities on how the EV mass adoption is affecting the
On 9/1/21 10:20 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: It could be that the grid can't handle any significant generation of PV energy. If it could, economics would dictate that excess PV energy would be sold, not shut down. The other possibility is this will produce an incentive to create hydrogen storage for excess PV energy. In my opinion, that's an excellent use for electrolysis plus either hydrogen turbines or fuel cells. Note, for this application, the hydrogen does not need to be compressed. Speaking without great familiarity with storage costs, I think short term battery storage is most likely to solve the problem. Battery stored energy can get to the grid for only about a 20% loss while hydrogen, as I understand, will be FAR less efficient. Typically, over production of either wind or PV can be managed with storage of well under 24 hours. We can look forward to continued battery cost reductions, especially from Tesla. For longer term storage, hydrogen might find a niche. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] LIVE stream 8/31/21 1540 PST A physicist consultant to power utilities on how the EV mass adoption is affecting the
On 9/1/21 11:51 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Michael, I don't follow you. If, for example, southern cali has excess PV generation, it will need to ship that energy somewhere pretty far away, say oregon or washington. That would require a pretty substantial transmission line. I don't think the existing lines are sufficient. The market is there but the infrastructure is not, so they shut down the PVs. Short term battery storage can be sited near production as well as anywhere else. If you can sell the energy within a few hours and if battery cost allows, battery storage looks good to me. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Charging EVs was Re: hydrogen isn't green, after all
On 8/26/21 12:22 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: You have to drive a lot for that to make any difference in your budget. 100kwh costs around $10 where I live. I maybe charge at a supercharger 10 times a year so I’m getting a free $100 a year. Not worth talking about I was a bit puzzled by the above response. We were talking (I think) about the cost of away from home charging. Home charging, indeed, does cost around $.10/kwh. Those who pay for SuperCharging, pay about $.28/kwh. Non Tesla fast charging costs around $.42/kwh. At least I think those are the numbers that have been quoted. I quoted a recent trip of mine and just counted the SuperCharge stops. Ten plus one overnight destination charge. That would have cost a Tesla driver who does not have free SuperCharging $50-$100. Estimated. For about 2,000 total miles. I make about 10k miles of highway trips in a year. So, $250-$500 worth of SuperCharging in a year. For local travel on home charging, those miles would have cost me about $100 (at my $.03/kwh rate) or ~$300 for at ~$.10/kwh rate. No, not a huge savings for free SuperCharging. But, it should be more than $5k over the life of the car. With Tesla opening the SuperCharge network to CCS cars, it will be interesting to see how the off brand networks (Electrifiy America, EVGO, etc) fare. I predict another tremendous win for Tesla because SuperChargers are better sited, better maintained, and cheaper than the off brands. In addition, those that have made non Tesla buying decisions will have more exposure to the value of Teslas. While most people who drive Teslas charge at home (at least sometimes), there are some folks that can't, for various reasons, and only use public charging stations. The total number who only use public chargers is probably a tiny percentage of Tesla drivers, but I'd bet its still more than FCEV drivers; who are forced to use public hydrogen stations because there is no alternative. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging
On 8/25/21 7:34 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: How much do you pay when you charge away from home? Here is an account of a recent trip from central Texas to Pike's Peak using SuperChargers and one destination charge station. https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2021/08/pikes-peak.html Three nights, four days. You can count the SuperChargers but 4-5 each way. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging
On 8/25/21 7:34 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: How much do you pay when you charge away from home? Addressed to me? I have free lifetime SuperCharging on both my current Teslas. I briefly had a Model 3 which did not have free SuperCharging. Average cost was around $5 for around 100 miles. I have rented two RV stalls in Canada. One, in Grand Prairie, was a very reasonable $10 for 3-5 hours. The other, I did not get a break on the full day rate of $45. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen vs Battery Power
On 8/25/21 4:06 PM, Alan Brinkman via EV wrote: Hello EVDL, The draw of Hydrogen is that using it produces H2O, water. What a great exhaust product. But the energy to separate Hydrogen out of H2O to produce it is too great. It is better to use that energy to charge batteries and drive an EV. You are (mostly) preaching to the choir. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Fast Charging Rates on the Least coast
On 8/25/21 3:57 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: Do they price differently in different markets? Or does this have to do with price of gasoline? I think it is not tied to either local electric rates or gasoline/diesel prices. I believe the Tesla price is a nation wide target. In some jurisdictions it is prohibited to charge for unit energy; that's why some areas use connection time. Tesla has pledged to not attempt to make SuperCharging a profit center. And they seem to be honoring that pledge. 3X local electricity rate is VERY modest considering the value of the fast charging hardware. By design, that $.28/kwh looks generally cheap compared to gasoline even though it is three times the charge at home cost. Charge at home is $.01-$.03/mile. SuperCharging, more like $.10/mile. I believe ICE cars pay more like $.15-$.25/mile for fuel and without a charge at home option. I haven't paid for SuperCharging in years but I've heard that Texas now allows unit energy sales. Texas SuperCharging used to be billed by connection time period. I am surprised by the cost of not SuperCharge fast charging. Likely MORE than the cost of gasoline. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging
On 8/25/21 1:30 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: You both get great deals. My electric coop only pays their "avoided costs" for any surplus electricity (trued up annually), currently that is less than 3 cents per kwh (2.6 the last time I checked). OTOH I'm still collecting on the PBI we agreed to when I first connected. That pays 18.6 cents per kWh produced, regardless of whether I use it or push it to the grid. However, that will run out in less than 2 years. A couple years after that my 'grandfathered' status runs out and I'll be switched to their new 'solar customer' rates, at that point it will cost me over $800 a year just for the privilege of being connected to the grid. iI figure it will be cheaper to buy some used EV batteries and disconnect, which is what I plan to do. Of course I do not fully understand your situation. But it appears you may have your PV paid for with the years of $.186 valued energy? The stability of a grid connection is not to be taken lightly. Will the $800/year surcharge overshadow the value of your production in the future? Can you avoid that surcharge by just disconnecting your PV from the grid? Though you are unlikely to be able to effectively use the PV energy if it is not grid tie, you can find other uses for it. Charging cars. Keeping grid down back up batteries charged. Heating water during the day for night time use. Cooling down the house while the sun shines. Etc. When I bought this place, I was not clever enough to shop for a good electric utility. I lucked out. Were I to move now, I would certainly take a very close look at the prospective utilities. Our coop has no generation of their own and they pay transmission fees on all out of area power that they buy for sale to members. That means they value the avoided transmission cost of customer generated power. Much of our grid power is now coming from very cheap west Texas wind and, increasingly, west Texas PV. That is transmitted as far as about 300 miles. Maybe 400. AND the coop seems to be legitimately member owned and operated for the benefit of members. Member/utility relations are not at all adversarial. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Charging EVs was Re: hydrogen isn't green, after all
On 8/25/21 12:42 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: All Teslas sold before 2017 come with lifetime free supercharging, model S and X come with lifetime free supercharging. , model 3 and Y come with 1 year of free supercharging. Destination charger (level 2) are almost always free. VW comes with 3 years of free charging, the Ionic comes with 1 year of free charging, I believe Nissan used to offer free charging. This is in addition to the thousands of EV charging stations that are free to everyone. A far as I can tell, every state in the Union has at least 50 free charging stations, most have several hundred. My 2013 S has transferable lifetime SuperCharging. Meaning subsequent buyers also have SuperCharging. My 2017 S had not transferable lifetime SuperCharging. Meaning the SuperCharging disappears for subsequent owners. I briefly owned a very early Model3 did not have free SuperCharging. I jumped on a very rare deal to get not transferable SuperCharging on my 2018 Model3. I know of only a few others that have free lifetime SuperCharging on a Model3. I very much want a ModelY and a CT but have no hope of getting free SuperCharging. I don't suppose Phil (or anyone) knows anything about having a newer Tesla take on the identity of an older one with SuperCharging? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging
On 8/25/21 11:10 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: ...by Electrify America, they said that they charge 31¢/kWh. I have seen rates as low as 3 cents per kW for EV charging off-peak for those that sign up for a TOU plan (includes much higher peak rates) "Hydrogen Fool cell" is a reasonable moniker. Wont this thread ever die? ->I<- think it is time for it to die. Much discussion back and forth. Little logic. Little promise for the future. Not a single example of FCEV advantage over BEV. I say at risk of appearing to gang up on Mark. Even though I have resisted giving that appearance. OOps, forgot. My home solar makes the EV charging free... (Well, no, with Grid tie it costs me 14 cents per kWh because that is what each kW is worth that I push back into the grid so using it to charge an EV is 14cents/kWh lost). Your utility seems to be giving you a GREAT deal. Though it makes your charging appear more expensive than with a lesser deal. I buy at $.10/kwh and sell at $.06/kwh which makes my charging $.06. OTOH, my utility is willing to buy (pay cash) for as much as I can manage to produce. Even at only $.06, I think my payback period is in the range of 6-8 years. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen Isn't Green, After All (Mark Abramowitz)
On 8/24/21 2:56 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote: Mark: "In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an extremely minor one. BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while FCEVs do. So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they expend their fuel while BEVs do not. I am NOT claiming that it should be a consideration when making buying decisions. But, since we are grasping for straws, it is SOMETHING.” This is only true for ICE vehicles in stop/go (ie urban) driving where you have to accelerate the mass of the vehicle up to speed and then lose all that energy braking to a stop again, repeatedly. On the open road and sticking to a relatively constant speed, the main force using using energy is aerodynamic drag (and tyre/road friction plus that of the mechanicals of the drivetrain). In an EV, much of the braking in stop/go energy can be recovered by regenerative braking, thus the ’shed mass’ argument is severely undermined. The same applies to hilly terrain. 1) I was comparing FCEVs and BEVs. No consideration of ICE. 2) No consideration of energy flows. Though I believe both FCEVs and BEVs recover kinetic energy via regen. 3) To try to be clearer: A FCEV is lighter after it has depleted it's fuel. It has "shed mass". A BEV is the same weight charged and discharged. Near the end of the fuel supply, a FCEV is slightly more efficient than when it has a full supply. A BEV should have the same efficiency when fully charged and near fully discharged. Significant? No. We are "grasping at straws" for reasons a FCEV might be better than a BEV. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
On 8/23/21 6:09 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: Mark, I'd still like to read YOUR responses to the questions posted here, especially to my own questions. Ditto. Though I have posted no specific questions. But the primary question seems to remain unanswered: "Why might a car buyer select a FCEV over a BEV?" That said, thanks for posting that video clip. But that's just technical griping. To get to the info, the presenter made a point that I hadn't thought much about - increasing range on an FCEV is less likely to add significant weight than it would on a BEV. She seems to think that that matters more for trucks than cars. I'd say that the opposite is true. When you consider battery weight as a percentage of a truck's payload, more might not be that big a deal. Thanks for the interpretation of the video. I am generally not willing to expend expensive bandwidth to view videos. She points out that FCEVs fuel faster. She says 5 minutes for FCEVs; elsewhere I've read 8 minutes. However, as superchargers hit 300kW, the difference is narrowing. An anecdote: I recently charged at one of the new 250kw SuperChargers and was impressed. Though I did not measure total charge time, I did notice that it started at about 240kw and by the time it had tapered to 200kw, I had added more than 100 miles of range. I needed more than that 100 miles so spent a total of approximately 20 minutes charging. In our area, 150kw chargers are far more common where 30 minute charge times are typical. 150kw chargers typically peak at 140-145kw and quickly taper. I do not see real significance in the difference. When on the road, I spend almost no time waiting for a charge. Getting coffee and taking head breaks uses most of the charge time. We've mentioned it MANY times but most, by far, charging takes NO time since it is done at night at homes. Tesla is behind in charging times since all Tesla batteries are ~400 volts and can not take advantage of 800 volt chargers. Though I have never actually seen a 800 volt charger. Quick charging is mostly a concern of those who do no yet have Teslas. In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an extremely minor one. BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while FCEVs do. So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they expend their fuel while BEVs do not. I am NOT claiming that it should be a consideration when making buying decisions. But, since we are grasping for straws, it is SOMETHING. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers? =Ryobi variable speed?
On 8/16/21 10:08 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: THe promo movie says you just set the cruise control and go. But I dont want fixed speed (mowing), I will be using this mostly for transportation around my yard and assume there will be variable pedal speed.Is this a wrong assumption? Sounds like it is an on/off accellerator?? If you want the mower for people transport rather than mowing, you will likely find a golf cart both better suited and cheaper. With FAR more buying options. But, I guess you want to mow also? A year of so ago, I think I paid ~$3k for my Ryobi 38". I wouldn't pay that again. Maybe more like $5k for something more durable. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers? =Ryobi variable speed?
On 8/16/21 10:08 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: THe promo movie says you just set the cruise control and go. But I dont want fixed speed (mowing), I will be using this mostly for transportation around my yard and assume there will be variable pedal speed.Is this a wrong assumption? Yes, it has a "normal" speed control also. I find the "cruise" very nice for mowing. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers?
On 8/15/21 6:41 AM, Pestka Dennis via EV wrote: Bob; I purchased the 100Ahr Ryobi about a year ago, and I love it. It does have lead acid batteries as you stated, but they are AGM with no maintenance. Your 1/10 acre and hills will be a piece of cake for it. I have about 3 acres to cut and I use it along with my wife on a zero turn. I can cut an hour with some hills and flat area's, and it doesn't even use half of the range. One of the main reasons I purchase it was for the bagging attachment. It is very simple to take off and on, and works really well. A have a lot of trees and it get a real workout in the fall picking up leaves. Tractor comes with 38" mower, charger, headlights, cruise control, and even a USB plug for your cell phone. It has a very tight turning radius, and an easy height adjuster for the mower deck. I purchased mine through Home Depot, and they delivered it right to my house. I have had the same for about a year. 38" as I recall. I continue to seek a better quality mower but with lithium. I probably expect too much of the mower. Mowing fairly rough ground surrounding my ground mount PV panels. Having the first blade motor replaced took it out of service for a couple of months and cost about $300. It has been out of service for a month again while I await the arrival of another $200 blade motor. No battery trouble. So far. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all
On 8/13/21 3:00 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: You’ve completely ignored what I said - did you even read it? Yep, every word of it. Yes of course, hydrogen will have a role to play, but there is no getting around the fact that using Renewables to make electricity to drive cars is 10 times more efficient to drive a BEV directly (5% loss from wind/solar to the car.) compared to the 50% energy loss in making hydrogen from the same electricity. That ten times inefficiency is what makes hydrogen unsuitable as a general replacement for cars. It is just centralized big (oil) companies continuing to push their centralized big company monopolies and control of distribution and perpetuating their TANK model. About 2014, I visited a cousin in Denver. I drove my newish Tesla up there and did quite a bit of Tesla demoing. My cousin a retired teacher with still close ties to her old high school. We visited the school and did quite a bit of Tesla/EV talking as well as demoing. Her school was quite proud of a hydrogen race car thing they had been participating in for years. I delved into the details. Oil company, Shell I think, was sponsoring. Looking at a nicely built open wheel single seater on display at the school, and being told it was electric, I asked about the source of the H2. "In this little bottle". "How do you replenish?" "Put in another little bottle that the sponsor supplies". EVERYONE seemed to ignore the problem of H2 source. It was an ELECTRIC car. Just like a Tesla. They were just proud of their electric car and unaware of the problem of oil company sponsorship. Indeed, they were grateful for the sponsorship. I found the whole thing rather dishonest and disgusting. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Tesla history
An old photo of my first Tesla just surfaced in an Inside EVs story. I thought it was worth a blog post: https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2021/08/old-photo-of-13s85-lives-on.html ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] AutoPilot drops out on tight road turns.
On 7/11/21 1:37 PM, Haudy Kazemi wrote: "Installation of the updates cause zero pain or inconvenience to the owners." That is overstating things. Good has come from updates, but there are warts too. There is no undo/roll back option available to customers in case of botched updates, or updates that reduced features. Specific examples, from the forums and/or experience: Likely all good valid points. How many have you personally encountered? With about 200k Tesla miles with software updates approximately every 3k miles, maybe 60-70 total software updates, I have encountered none. Have you noticed that Tesla naysayers seek every little inconsequential nit to pick? Thereby missing the big picture. Or, are you suggesting that Tesla software updates are a net negative? If so, installing software updates is entirely voluntary. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] AutoPilot drops out on tight road turns.
On 7/11/21 8:46 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: The sudden braking was caused by the radar. That one reason the removed it from the latest vehicles Could be. The truth is that none of us know exactly what the problems and trade offs are and that many features of Teslas are works in progress. The "works in progress" will be interpreted as a negative by some here. But it is not. I personally think FSD will be a roaring success. If not in the next month or so, likely within a year. Some here think not. All we know for sure is that Tesla has had great success improving the cars as they age and that they have been highly successful with customer satisfaction. With other cars, what is delivered at the time of purchase is what you are stuck with for the life of the car. With Tesla, corrections and improvements arrive approximately monthly. Installation of the updates cause zero pain or inconvenience to the owners. I am enthralled with the Tesla model of development and don't expect to buy from another manufacturer. I suspect that much of the Tesla negativism you see here and elsewhere come from people with little to no Tesla experience. Of course, they are welcome to make their own purchase decisions. OTOH, spouting ill informed FUD is doing a disservice to both Tesla and prospective buyers. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature
On 7/11/21 10:53 AM, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote: In the end, if one believes in an EV future, and wants to put their money where their mouth is, and wants to drive an EV, there are trade-offs to be made. Does one go with a home DIY conversion? That may not be maintainable by a third party. Or with a professional conversion that offers open diagnostics (Maxwell ProMaster)? Or a manufacturer that solely produces EVs, that has years of successful products on the road, but is resistant to allowing or enabling 3rd party diagnostics (Tesla)? Or a manufacturer that isn't dedicated to EVs and has produced some EV products that aren't holding up well (Nissan with Leaf G1)? Or a manufacturer that isn't dedicated to EVs (and has done anti-EV things in the past) and has produced some EV products that are okay, but don't have a national charging grid (GM)? Or a new manufacturer that doesn't have history (Nikola, Rivian, etc.)? There is a saying that seems suitable: the perfect is the enemy of the good. A VERY good analysis and review. I find nothing to disagree with. I do see EM's perceived personality problems to be insignificant compared to his accomplishments/achievements. And am astonished to find that a major factor with many people. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature
On 7/10/21 9:43 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: I think that most Tesla devotees are either unaware of or underestimate the level of distaste (to put it mildly) for Elon Musk that exists on the periphery of EV interest. While Elon may have an impulsive personality, you cannot ignore the wonders he has done for Tesla and EVs in general. Without Elon, I believe it that we might not have production EVs today. Nathan! Please desist! You are ruining my "Fell down the EVDL rabbit hole" experience! Off with his head! Elon Musk's successes CAN be ignored as we continue to do here. Many here seem to want to return to the good old days when the future of EVs was very uncertain. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature
On 7/9/21 12:55 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: I think that most Tesla devotees are either unaware of or underestimate the level of distaste (to put it mildly) for Elon Musk that exists on the periphery of EV interest. I thank you for your candidness. This "I hate Elon and no level of superior performance can overcome that hatred" caught me by complete surprise. But, it explains much that has puzzled me. I much better understand now. I'm further surprised by the number of people here that express similar views. I can see that logic has little relevance in the matter. Does anyone else notice a parallel with racial hatred and racism in general? Yes, I was unaware (as you say) of the level of distaste for EM. I have looked at his successes and his performance which seem to me to greatly overshadow his rather odd personality. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature
On 7/8/21 11:10 PM, paul dove via EV wrote: This is hearsay! Lots of people said their Toyota’s and Lexus suddenly accelerated but this too was ruled as operator error or the accelerator getting stuck in the carpet. Many people try to blame someone else for their mistakes. After reading about using AP on a road without center stripe, that was my impression also. A friend's wife totaled a model 3 on a country road (in full self driving mode $10K extra) coming up to a non standard stop sign on a T and hit a close building (brick wall). It was in an old town where a building was too close to the road about 10' (not current set back requirements). Apparently the software misses non standard situations. So the couple bought another model 3 and also purchased the option self driving feature again. This time my friend was driving on another country road (no center line) and in one of the turns, the car hit a tree, totaled a second Tesla-3 - (two in two years). He has some medical issues from the accident. A Tesla with publicly released software (making no comment of software out in beta testing), AP can not be started on a road without center striping. Once AP is started (on a center stripe section of road) it will continue to do the best it can if the center strip disappears. My experience is that it does a pretty good job of staying on the correct side of the road and dealing with traffic even without a center stripe. This suspicious misrepresentation calls into question the veracity of all the accounts. As seems often the case, misreporting is likely/certain. Add to that the comments made by those with zero AP (or other self driving system) experience and you have a cluster and spreading of Tesla FUD. Right here in EVDL where the conversion from ICE to BEV has been a crusade for decades. Some here just can not accept that it was done by Tesla. I can not understand the anti-Tesla bias. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: NHTSA investigating Tesla autopilot fatalities
On 6/19/21 4:04 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: Tesla, Volvo, Cadillac, Lexus, and Navya are five car companies under investigation by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) for crashes that occurred while Advanced Driver Assistance Systems were activated, the agency said. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-volvo-cadillac-lexus-nhtsa-adas-investigation/amp/ The non Teslas have minor amount of accident data. But only because those makers have minuscule assisted driving miles compared to Tesla. Only the Tesla naysayers see this as a possible iceberg tip. On Friday, June 18, 2021, 1:05 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: US safety regulators have opened 30 investigations into Tesla crashes involving 10 deaths since 2016 where an advanced driver assistance system was suspected to have been in use. [...] Of the 30 Tesla crashes, NHTSA has ruled out Tesla´s Autopilot in three and published reports on two of the crashes. Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/18/thirty-tesla-crashes- linked-to-assisted-driving-system-under-investigation-in-us or https://v.gd/gR6oK7 ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!
On 5/22/21 10:18 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city EV, but it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something that fits in a motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway. Without having measured or searched out specifications, I'll venture imievs are about half the length and 3/4 the width of Leafs. About the size of "Smart" cars. Only slightly bigger than a golf cart. You hope to find single person wide with fore/aft seating? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!
On 5/22/21 9:53 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" vehicle. Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on streets up to 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles. AFAIK, a used imiev is your best bet. They are essentially Japanese "Kei" cars. Is that what the tiny Japanese cars are called? I keep my rear seats folded down all the time and, in two passenger mode, the load area is impressive. They do not have the Leaf battery problem; my 2014s are down to about 60 miles from 65-70. Irritations are different wheel and tire sizes front and back. And not optional creep. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal
On 5/21/21 4:18 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: Yeah, the 4 dollar model is basic no frills and 230 mile range is city driving I bet it won’t go 200 miles on the highway based on my experience driving Tesla’s I'll certainly be interested in seeing highway speed ranges. My impression is that, with CyberTruck, attention was given to aerodynamics. So, the CT may be a lot better than any traditional looking pickup. With my values, the main attraction of the Ford would be V2H. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] The state of EV's 1890 to 1922
On 5/15/21 11:35 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: square of velocity. But, yes, not linear. From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" Bingo, I re-read my email and when I said it goes up significantly above 45, I omitted the fact (that you allude to) is that it goes up as the cube of velocity. I encounter this square/cube controversy semi-regularly. Let me make a feeble attempt at illumination. Energy lost to wind drag does go up with the cube of the speed. That energy lost is per unit time and does not account for extra distance traveled at higher speed. On the basis of energy lost per unit distance traveled, the loss goes up with the square of the speed. Clear? As mud? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen
On 5/9/21 12:00 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: Advantages of this system: Less resources used for batteries (vs BEVs) Less resources used for ICE generators (vs Hybrids) Better vehicle efficiency for normal (non-extended use) since you'll be carrying around less weight All of which results in: Cheaper vehicles Perhaps overlooked is the longevity of large batteries compared to smaller batteries. A 100kwh battery might last 200k miles in a car while a 50kwh may last only 100k miles. With a big battery, you are buying more total energy transfer than with a smaller one. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Bloated Trucks/Suvs (one isn't)
On 4/26/21 12:25 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: On the plus side, Nissan probably didn't know the batteries would have problems in hot climates. On the negative side, they certainly didn't *support* their customers when they did find out! Well... The Leaf battery did not need to become a big deal. Obviously, they should have owned up to the mistake and fixed it. Instead, they denied. At that time, 2010-2012, Nissan was positioned to become the dominate EV maker. Instead, they rather pointlessly screwed all their early adopters and drove many to Tesla. I would never have considered a car as expensive as a Tesla had I not been both screwed by Nissan and committed to EVs. But, it has probably turned out for the best with Tesla being dedicated to EVs and achieving dominance. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Bloated Trucks/Suvs (one isn't)
On 4/26/21 11:00 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: It may also help that Renault doesn't sell cars in the US, and much of Europe tends to be more temperate in summer than the southern US. That is, almost certainly, the reason for the difference. Nissan should not have sold cars in the southern tier of US states. At least with the faulty batteries. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] maybe convert odyssey ?
On 4/26/21 11:27 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I need to take a serious look at converting my 2000 honda odyssey. Every year I throw a little more money into repairs hoping that a suitable EV replacement will come on the market. So far, nothing that meets my needs. Here are a few questions on my mind, and surely they will expose more :) - what are the dims of the tesla model 3 82kWh battery ? - what is its cost, salvaged (but with near new capacity) ? - what is the cost of other components I need to salvage - motor, inverter, BMS, charger ... ? - what computer support is needed for the motor, inverter, BMS, charger ? - is anyone willing to do the work ? for what cost ? "One offs" are likely to be many times as expensive as a conversion where the development work has been spread over many units. Have you looked at what Phil/Maxwell has done with the ProMaster/Fiat? If you find the right roller, you might get into one of those for ~$50k. Some of those vans are modest size. Probably not as small as an Odyssey, though. But likely with FAR more utility. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Bloated Trucks/Suvs (one isn't)
On 4/26/21 9:28 AM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: I recently managed to get a 10 foot sick of 1" PVC inside my bolt with the rear hatch closed. Folded the rear seat down, the passenger seat forward, and the front of the pipe was up against the windshield. I carry bundles of 10' PVC in imievs. Rear seats are always down. As much as 2' sticks out of the lowered front passenger window. Imievs are amazingly utilitarian. If only they had more range. Mine have had FAR less battery capacity loss than seems common in Leafs. My old Leaf is now for sale by it's second owner. Range is down to ~30 miles which means 20 miles usable. Less than 40k miles. Very low value; essentially ready to be recycled. I don't guess any cost effective battery replacements have surfaced? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Solar Panels On EV
On 4/21/21 11:37 PM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: Each year cars get bigger, taller, and heavier. That's because that is what people want. David addressed this rather well. To an extent. It is a societal problem that advertising targets are so easily and illogically swayed. I contend that the root cause is a low average level of education. Especially lacking in both critical thinking and physics. It was only after my college years that I became aware that the general populace had zero formal education in physics. Most know nothing of conservation of energy and energy flows. That is reflected directly in poor driving habits and poor vehicle selection. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] From my nissan leaf .com: Why the Leaf 12v system undercharges the 12v battery.
On 4/20/21 8:52 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: I agree with -Phil-. I think lithium is the wrong choice for the 12v battery. It's expensive, offers no advantages, and "cures" a problem that doesn't exist. Here is a relevant anecdote: My 2013 Tesla S ran through 12v lead batteries at the rate of about one every 12 months. That was of no great concern to me while the batteries were under warranty. However, after the first three, that part of the warranty expired and I bought a lithium with LFP cells. The leads would have cost me around $200 to replace and the lithium cost about $400. The lithium has been completely trouble free for about five years now. And is still in service. Now it is possible that Tesla has corrected, or more likely reduced, the problem via software updates. There is quite a range in reports of Tesla lead battery longevity; mine is on the poorer side; many report several years of life. But, if early history was indicative of future performance, I have saved several hundred dollars, maybe around $500, by using lithium instead of lead. Not to mention quite a bit of cost and pain that is associated with 12v battery changing in early Ss. Changing an early S battery can be a half day job. Seems like I have recently read that Tesla has finally decided to start using lithium for 12v. When I needed to get my lithium installed, Tesla service refused to install the "unauthorized" part. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] EV1
On 4/13/21 1:55 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote: Hello Everyone, I just finished watching the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car" was wondering if anyone on EVDL has owned a General Motors EV1 and would be willing to share his or her experiences with it. The EV1 was before my EV era. However, WKTEC, viewed long after it was released, was instrumental in getting me involved with EVs. IMHO, the main "take away" from WKTEC should be the NiMH story. What GM did with the EV1 was within their rights and VERY minor compared to what they did with NiMH. I firmly believe that GM has spent decades trying to suppress the NiMH story. Obscuring, denying, ignoring. Likely paying agents to further their goal of not being recognized for their actions. Here, you will find people willing to "forgive and forget" GM's crimes. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla keyless keyfob fix
On 4/1/21 7:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Yes, the Y has an RFID card - I did a test drive a few weeks ago. But, what do you mean "leave it in the center console" ? If you leave the car parked somewhere, you need to take it with you, right ? Otherwise anyone can take the car. True. If they know how it works. Most people can't figure out how to open a door. Also, it is a mistake to live where people are not to be trusted. When in places that seem not safe, I do sometimes take the card with me. But, usually not. I've put about 200k miles on Teslas and not had a theft attempt. I kinda look forward to a theft and telling the cops where the car is. Do I remember correctly that the car can be disabled via the app? At least, it can be put in valet mode? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla keyless keyfob fix
On 4/1/21 7:04 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Seriously, you have to have cell coverage to open or start a tesla ? I would think it uses bluetooth. Tesla app through cell phone to open/start is kind of an emergency method. For when your normal "key" is missing. S/X come with battery powered key fobs. 3 (and I presume Y) come with RFID cards (no batteries to be replaced). I mostly leave my 3 RFID card on the center console so that it is always ready to go. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Charging payment system costs. Was: BYD Blade
On 3/30/21 9:34 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Well maybe, as David or someone wrote, it's just too soon. Eventually, the convenience of having a universal payment method will win. That universal method might not be the credit card as we know it. Things are changing and it may resemble paypal or some other system more app based. Square has been processing credit card payments cost effectively for quite a while. SQ is now a major holding in "disruptive technology" funds. ARKK holds 10% TSLA and 5.5% SQ. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla-Y constant humming when parked in garage, wasting kwh
On 3/27/21 7:22 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:10, Willie via EV wrote: thus far, even after factoring in my charging cost at home, I have saved $20,515 in gas. Having free supercharging of course helps. An impressive amount, but I don't think that your supercharging is really free. As I understand it, you effectively paid for it in the original price of the car. It's similar to the way that today's "connected cars" have the cost of their always-on cellular connections bundled into the cars' purchase prices. To determine how much you've really avoided spending on gasoline, you'd have to know what portion of the car's original price bought your Supercharging access. The comment on SuperCharger "freeness" was not mine; it was part of a quote from a Connecticut guy that was primarily commenting on battery longevity. I do not challenge your quibble on the use of "free" and many times substitute "included" myself. Is there any way to determine that? Briefly, the S60 (60kwh battery) was offered both with and without included SuperCharging. The price difference was $2k. This was about 2012-2014. Tesla has gone through several steps in phasing out included SuperCharging. My 2013 S has transferable SuperCharging. Were I to sell, the new owner would also have included SuperCharging. Cars since that era have been sold with not transferable SuperCharging; the perk disappears once Tesla discovers that the car has been sold. I don't believe Tesla has sold any cars with included SuperCharging in several years. AFAIK no Ys and very few 3s have been sold with that perk. My 3 was offered with included SuperCharging during the year end push of 2018; the offer was made only briefly and only on 3Ps. That is the primary reason I bought a P. Tesla has pledged not to attempt to make SuperCharging (along with service) a profit center. The charging fees seem to be about twice the cost of the energy supplied. Which, considering the cost of the SuperCharge sites, seems VERY reasonable to me. I've had some minor experience paying for SuperCharging with my first 3. Charging cost for around 100 miles worth of energy seemed to be around $5. That would be about $.05/mile; in this area ($.10-.12/kwh), home charging cost less than $.03/mile. I imagine that there are others here that can give more detail on cost of SuperCharger use. Ideally, energy would be metered at SuperChargers and sold by the kwh. In most areas, that is not legal so some time metering scheme must be used instead. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla-Y constant humming when parked in garage, wasting kwh
On 3/27/21 6:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: That's pretty impressive, about 3% loss at 100k miles. I wonder if the new Teslas are about the same. My 2018 3P, at 45k miles, has a current range of about 300 miles, down from about 325. So, probably 7-8% loss. I expect/hope it will be a 200k miles battery. As I mentioned, degradation of ~20% is not really significant with 200+ mile batteries. It was nice, but a bit stressful, to be able to do 600 miles (from my place to Amarillo) on a single charge stop, which I can no longer safely do. But 200 mile legs are easily doable. To do 200 miles from one SuperCharger to another, you have likely skipped either one or two SuperCharging opportunities. Charging time with 200 mile legs on a 300 mile battery is likely less than pushing to near 300 mile legs. I think people that have not done a cross country trip in a Tesla just do not appreciate the value of the SuperCharger network. They are well placed and reliable. And the car tells you if there is any possible problems with SuperChargers you plan to use. There are very few unpleasant and trip delaying problems with SuperChargers. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla-Y constant humming when parked in garage, wasting kwh
On 3/25/21 8:37 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote: On 3/25/21 8:16 AM, Willie via EV wrote: Your car has a battery that may last 200k miles. Compare that to a Leaf with battery life as low as 20k miles. You are comparing maximum possible life to minimum possible life. Doesn't seem very fair to the Leaf. My Leaf has 6 years and 50k miles on it with 80% of the new range/capacity remaining. Here is a battery report on a 2014 S with near 200k miles: --- My original 100% range was 265, presently it is 238 which equals a 10% loss. My life time avg Wh/mi is 318. The follow are the stats since 2015 when I started tracking this. Aug 2015 - 32,016 miles - 262 100% - 1.1% loss - 329 Wh/mi Aug 2016 - 50,089 - 259 - 2.3% - 326 Aug 2017 - 87,951 - 258 - 2.6% - 325 Aug 2018 - 120,723 - 256 - 3.3% - 322 Aug 2019 - 162,327 - 251 - 5.6% - 320 Aug 2020 - 180,383 - 243 - 8.3% - 319 Mar 2021 - 187,928 - 238 - 10.1% - 318 To put that 10% loss in perspective, that equates to a loss of 2.3 mpg in an avg ICE car. Speaking of gas, thus far, even after factoring in my charging cost at home, I have saved $20,515 in gas. Having free supercharging of course helps.. My 2013 S now has 142k miles and has about the same range, maybe a little less. With a 200+ mile battery, 10-20% loss is not very significant. So, 200k miles is NOT "maximum possible life". Likely, far less. These are near 10 year old batteries. Of course, we believe the current batteries have been improved and will last longer. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla-Y constant humming when parked in garage, wasting kwh
On 3/25/21 8:37 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote: On 3/25/21 8:16 AM, Willie via EV wrote: Your car has a battery that may last 200k miles. Compare that to a Leaf with battery life as low as 20k miles. You are comparing maximum possible life to minimum possible life. Doesn't seem very fair to the Leaf. My Leaf has 6 years and 50k miles on it with 80% of the new range/capacity remaining. My 2011 Leaf became useless to me before 25k miles when it's range was reduced to ~60 miles. My 2013 Tesla, at ~150k miles, has about 225 miles left of it's original 265. It is very near as useful as it was new. It can still go essentially anywhere in the country following a chain of SuperChargers spaced at <150 miles. I believe 3/Ys have longer lived batteries than early Ss. We won't know for sure for a few years, but I think 200k miles is a very reasonable expectation. Congratulations on your very good Leaf battery luck! Though I'm not sure how useful 80% of a small Leaf battery is. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla-Y constant humming when parked in garage, wasting kwh
On 3/24/21 8:45 PM, mark hanson via EV wrote: Hi Folks, My Tesla-Y is constantly humming (fans/pumps?) when parked in the garage for hours. I heard it loses 1% daily, seems wasteful to me. Is there a way to turn power off to things when parked? My Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are silent when parked. I imagine that the car is trying to take care of itself. I advise not worrying about it. Your car has a battery that may last 200k miles. Compare that to a Leaf with battery life as low as 20k miles. You can monitor "vampire" range reduction which should be well under 10 miles/day. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] BEV camper conversion vans
Phil has rekindled my lagging interest in electric camper conversions. I've accumulated some of the information he has offered in a blog post. If anyone else is interested. https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2021/03/bev-rv-van-considerations.html I'll likely be adding to the post if/when things develop farther. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Maxwell conversion vans
It's a FIAT! Dating, apparently, from 2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Maxwell conversion vans
On 3/23/21 6:16 PM, (-Phil-) wrote: We haven't asked. Right now the next year of ProMaster production has all been bought up by Amazon. Our preferred model is to convert a used van that's already paid for it's environmental manufacturing cost, that way our total footprint is way less. Plus it's way lower cost. Fleets that own high-mileage vans can now take something they've already depreciated, and renew it and drop the operation and maintenance costs by a huge amount. It's a win-win, and we greatly extend the life of the chassis. Of course we are happy to convert a brand new van with a brand new Tesla drivetrain if a customer wants it, but it costs more, both in $$$ and to the environment. Thanks! The situation (slowly) dawns on me. For the one off customer, do you broker used vans? Or, is the customer expected to do his own shopping? Before this discussion, I was unaware that the new vans existed. It seems that they must have been in service, though, for 5+ years. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Maxwell conversion vans
On 3/23/21 5:15 PM, Willie wrote: I suppose Phil and crew has tried and failed to get SuperCharger access? Is Maxwell able to buy "rollers" from Dodge? Without engine/transmission. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Maxwell conversion vans
I suppose Phil and crew has tried and failed to get SuperCharger access? That would seem to be in opposition to Tesla's stated willingness to share. I'm sorely tempted to get a quote on a RV conversion. I'm guessing it would be around $200k. I was confused by the web page that shows a Sprinter. I guess it shows Maxwell/Dodge leading the pack. I was surprised to learn that Dodge has replaced their Sprinter with something apparently of Dodge manufacture. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla question for Phil
On 3/23/21 11:02 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote: On 3/23/21 9:04 AM, Willie via EV wrote: People have claimed that it would not be possible to get DC power out of the charge connector on a Tesla. I'm skeptical. Will you offer an opinion? Since Tesla's support DC fast charging, it means they have the capability to connect the battery directly to the fast charging ports on the charge connector (via contractors I assume). So the capability definitely exists, but you would have to have software support from Tesla or trick them into thinking they are connected to a supercharger (and if the car is programmed to shut off any "SuperChargers" that "steal" power instead of providing it even that wouldn't work.) Yes, I agree it would likely be non-productive for a Tesla owner to try to work at odds with Tesla. If Tesla doesn't want it to happen, it will not likely happen. OTOH, I think (and hope) that Tesla will soon be offering V2H/V2G in response to the VW challenge. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
