RE: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
I don't mind the idea of install adverts, but I object to my favorites being filled with adds and my homepage setting. As long as mandrake provide a system wide way of removing the links then its ok, if they don't.. I will knock up a perl script that does it for you and make it available for download. If mandrake becomes addware people will abandon it in droves.. rgds Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Guy Van Sanden said, Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) The Mandrake installer has displayed advertising graphics for the last few versions, since 8.2 at least, without impacting the display of information. I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. I would imagine Mandrake share the same reservations, they were making a profit until the experts changed their strategies. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. Provided it is restricted to the installer and some default home page settings, I don't have a problem with this. If it becomes intrusive, I still won't have a problem with it, but Mandrake will no longer have me as a customer. Cheers Neil -- Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 00:52, James Sparenberg wrote: On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 01:21, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: James Sparenberg schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:15:47 -0700: Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) And who's ass would you prefer? (g,dr) wobo I personally like my wifes but then, that's me (take it both ways) __ I would not even touch that line with Adbul Karreem Jabbar Grabowski. (a 7 foot Pole)g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *** Lee Wiggers Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:33:06 -0400 : Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. I' think there'll be small text-based ads in the text install then. Of course, the majority of users will use the graphics installer, so the ads will reach their readers. Well, for the 'knowing' there's always a way, isn't it? I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't feel annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by Thwates or even AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading XXX-RPMs for the adult Linuxer! or Download jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW! ;-) wobo Hmm, I did an $ urpmi.update updates cooker cooker2 base-ftp hotties ; urpmi jay-lo-ass-showing and couldn't find this rpm- is it one of the plf packages? Please help me! I haven't been this excited about software in a long time! -DS Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:10:50 -0500: Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't I feel annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by I Thwates or even AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading I XXX-RPMs for the adult Linuxer! or Download I jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW! ;-) wobo Hmm, I did an $ urpmi.update updates cooker cooker2 base-ftp hotties ; urpmi jay-lo-ass-showing and couldn't find this rpm- is it one of the plf packages? Hmm, you may have searched in the wrong server. There are servers with and without ads. This changes weekly so you'll have to try again. If you contact the right server you'll receive a message from the weekly sponsor of the site. After clicking on I will you are redirected to the hotties. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 00:00, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:10:50 -0500: Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't I feel annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by I Thwates or even AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading I XXX-RPMs for the adult Linuxer! or Download I jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW! ;-) wobo Hmm, I did an $ urpmi.update updates cooker cooker2 base-ftp hotties ; urpmi jay-lo-ass-showing and couldn't find this rpm- is it one of the plf packages? Hmm, you may have searched in the wrong server. There are servers with and without ads. This changes weekly so you'll have to try again. If you contact the right server you'll receive a message from the weekly sponsor of the site. After clicking on I will you are redirected to the hotties. wobo Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
James Sparenberg schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:15:47 -0700: Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) And who's ass would you prefer? (g,dr) wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 02:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *** Lee Wiggers Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:33:06 -0400 : Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. I' think there'll be small text-based ads in the text install then. Of course, the majority of users will use the graphics installer, so the ads will reach their readers. Well, for the 'knowing' there's always a way, isn't it? I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't feel annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by Thwates or even AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading XXX-RPMs for the adult Linuxer! or Download jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW! ;-) wobo Hmm, I did an $ urpmi.update updates cooker cooker2 base-ftp hotties ; urpmi jay-lo-ass-showing and couldn't find this rpm- is it one of the plf packages? Please help me! I haven't been this excited about software in a long time! -DS Those are only available in the dirty old MANdrake version of the distro,,, but we are only allowed to speak of it on the OT list g Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 04:21, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: James Sparenberg schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:15:47 -0700: Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) And who's ass would you prefer? (g,dr) wobo I thought Ben was the ASS, I guess that should just be asshole??? __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
OK, a show of hands now; how many people use the default browser that comes with a distro? How many even install it? You sir, in the back, are you sure? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:46:49 -0400 Mike Grello [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: OK, a show of hands now; how many people use the default browser that comes with a distro? How many even install it? You sir, in the back, are you sure? LOL! Good one! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. -- Publilius Syrus Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 04:40, Guy Van Sanden wrote: OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. [stuff cut] Just look at the box, notice Tux has been laid off; J. Random Bean-Counter has already begun ruining things. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 15:56, David Rankin wrote: I appreciate your response, and perhaps I was presumtive in my 100% suggestion. I do see your point. So why don't we all just declare the clean elegance of linux code and distributions dead. Let's all say Hey, it's OK to start down the path of code bloat and incideous little processes running in the background to direct spam to my machine. Say yes, I like the idea of pop-ups and spyware polluting my browser and desktop. And say yes to all the inconvenience just so someone can put another almighty dollar in thier pocket. Get real! Many people look to linux to get away for just this type of annoying BS. Yes, I like and support mandrake. But I am UTTERLY APPAULED at the premise and idea of including incestuos slutty advertising in the mdk distribution. Mdk was a great distro long before the corporatization and focus on $ became its fixation. In my eyes, and I will say in the eyes of many others, the inclusion of unwanted and unsolicited ads, in any form, no matter how easily removed is unacceptable that will make mdk a distribution I would no longer choose to be a part of or support. Hooray for the marketing scum, they have finally found a way to pollute a linux distribution. I guess someone will get a nice fat check for that idea. Gee, when you put it that way, it's pretty terrifying. I didn't get all of that from the announcement. I would guess that there is not one single Linux user who does not lord over their Windbloze using friends the lack of spyware and uninvited processes running on their machine. I also think that after all of the other Linux distros have alienated the home user base by super-gluing their lips to the bean counter ass somebody will want to be cleaning up in that market. Discreet, static advertising in the install program; a static file containing ads for the default screensaver; the home page initially set to some corporate web site on a browser that I don't even install because it's two revs out of date; no biggie But, somebody is going to have to sop up all those nome users when everyone else has left them behind. Mandrake has a nice comfortable, easy distro, they would be the natural choice. Put another way, while everybody else is fighting for their share of the pie, somebody is going to be getting the mashed potatos, the fried chicken, the ribs, the candied sweet potatos, and everything else on the picnic table that is being ignored; this has GOT to be where the money is Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 07:36, Richard Urwin wrote: As described on the MDK page, I don't have a problem with this. Anything that keeps MDK going and doesn't make it too annoying is OK by me. I can always remove the bookmarks folder and change the screensaver. If that became too hard then I would seriously consider moving to Debian or something, but nothing indicates that it will be hard. I should hope that they keep the ads targeted. I would actually like to be aware of Linux-capable comercial apps, they don't get much air-time on other media. I would not like to get Microsoft ads, or that SCO one somebody posted to the comments, or indeed about credit cards etc. MDK say they will decide on a FCFS basis, I hope it'll be better selected than that. Otherwise MS will definately buy a slot, for laughs if for no other reason, these prices are petty cash for them. Yeah, but think of the fun it will be to deface the ads and share the results; a new art form is born!!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Mike Grello wrote: OK, a show of hands now; how many people use the default browser that comes with a distro? How many even install it? You sir, in the back, are you sure? ROFL! While I will admit that I have in the past been a Galeon fan, I now feel that the recent versions are less enjoyable to use, and have switched almost exclusively to Opera as my primary browser ... and if I can handle the (relatively unobtrusive, IMHO) ads in that, I can certainly tolerate anything that Mandrake is even remotely likely to include in 9.2 ... My other browsers are Dillo and Links/Links-graphic (as applies). I find them to be very handy when called from my mail and news clients, to take a quick glance at a URL in a message; no need for a full-blown browser for that, in most cases - what matters more to me is the launch/render speed. If it turns out that I need Flash or such nonsense to view the site, I just fire up Opera and copy the link over ... or skip it entirely. ;) -- Bill Mullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] MA, USA RLU #270075 MDK 8.1 9.0 Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things they make it easier to do don't need to be done. - Andy Rooney Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 03:50, ed tharp wrote: On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 04:21, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: James Sparenberg schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:15:47 -0700: Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) And who's ass would you prefer? (g,dr) wobo I thought Ben was the ASS, I guess that should just be asshole??? My point exactly. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 01:21, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: James Sparenberg schrieb am Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:15:47 -0700: Dunno with my luck I would just get a picture of Jlo and Affleck together. (Duck) And who's ass would you prefer? (g,dr) wobo I personally like my wifes but then, that's me (take it both ways) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Monday 15 Sep 2003 1:48 am, Charlie wrote: Disclaimer:- I am a freeloader paying only for the media upon which the O/S was written. I would probably have used windows, however, I couldn't afford it. In an attempt to pay my way and in gratitude to Mandrake and Linux, I mention Linux everywhere, and Mandrake in particular, because it is my Linux of preference. In the footer of the front page of every document I write is the following:- But you see, in my book that says you are not a freeloader. Of course, Thomas also pays in other ways. The only reason that I saw his situation as freeloading was because he started by saying that he would have bought, had not the matter of advertisements arisen - in other words, he could have afforded. That's a different matter. But it is so very important, I think, to say often and loudly that if we value linux we must pay by whatever coin we can offer, be it cash or time and effort in coding, documentation or promotion. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:36:57 +0100 Richard Urwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As described on the MDK page, I don't have a problem with this. Anything that keeps MDK going and doesn't make it too annoying is OK by me. I can always remove the bookmarks folder and change the screensaver. If that became too hard then I would seriously consider moving to Debian or something, but nothing indicates that it will be hard. I should hope that they keep the ads targeted. I would actually like to be aware of Linux-capable comercial apps, they don't get much air-time on other media. I would not like to get Microsoft ads, or that SCO one somebody posted to the comments, or indeed about credit cards etc. MDK say they will decide on a FCFS basis, I hope it'll be better selected than that. Otherwise MS will definately buy a slot, for laughs if for no other reason, these prices are petty cash for them. -- Richard Urwin From my desk, install adverts would be interesting if linux-centric. Small price for a good product. First time a pop-up appears while I'm typing a letter...I'm gone. Lee Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sunday 14 Sep 2003 8:57 am, Lee Wiggers wrote: On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:36:57 +0100 Richard Urwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As described on the MDK page, I don't have a problem with this. Anything that keeps MDK going and doesn't make it too annoying is OK by me. I can always remove the bookmarks folder and change the screensaver. If that became too hard then I would seriously consider moving to Debian or something, but nothing indicates that it will be hard. I should hope that they keep the ads targeted. I would actually like to be aware of Linux-capable comercial apps, they don't get much air-time on other media. I would not like to get Microsoft ads, or that SCO one somebody posted to the comments, or indeed about credit cards etc. MDK say they will decide on a FCFS basis, I hope it'll be better selected than that. Otherwise MS will definately buy a slot, for laughs if for no other reason, these prices are petty cash for them. -- Richard Urwin From my desk, install adverts would be interesting if linux-centric. Small price for a good product. As I understand it, adverts during install will be for companies who actively support linux in some way, and in my book that is 'a Good Thing'. There is the issue of programmers needing to know that there is a demand, and at a low cost this allows them to raise their visibility. As a user, I'm happy to be told which companies do help - I'm hoping that hardware driver support will be highlighted in this way, as it will help us make the right decisions. What I would be less happy with is repeated 'reminders', or pop-ups, as Lee said, but there's no indication that this is likely to happen. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 21:19, Anne Wilson wrote: What I would be less happy with is repeated 'reminders', or pop-ups, as Lee said, but there's no indication that this is likely to happen. I must confess one thing that has really stunned me is that some reactions in the Linux coummunity have been bordering on hysteria and unreasoned panic. Mandrake is a company based on principles of community and freedom, hardly one that is likely to engage in the type of practice common among less ethical companies. I guess some folks have been trampled by excessive materialism too many times to be able to know when the herd of rampaging elephants has passed :) Damon Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Damon Lynch schrieb am Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:08:55 +1200: On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 21:19, Anne Wilson wrote: What I would be less happy with is repeated 'reminders', or pop-ups, as Lee said, but there's no indication that this is likely to happen. I must confess one thing that has really stunned me is that some reactions in the Linux coummunity have been bordering on hysteria and unreasoned panic. Mandrake is a company based on principles of community and freedom, hardly one that is likely to engage in the type of practice common among less ethical companies. I guess some folks have been trampled by excessive materialism too many times to be able to know when the herd of rampaging elephants has passed:) ...and to be able to read. Mandrake stated explicitely that they offer this thing only to Mandrake Partners. And that popups are out of the question. In a nice and tidy, clean looking restaurant: Waiter: We serve beer in glasses. Guest: Don't you dare to serve in dirty glasses! Waiter: We don't serve in dirty dishes at all! Guest: If you serve in dirty dishes, I'll be gone! That's all about it. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sunday 14 Sep 2003 12:09 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: Damon Lynch schrieb am Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:08:55 +1200: On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 21:19, Anne Wilson wrote: What I would be less happy with is repeated 'reminders', or pop-ups, as Lee said, but there's no indication that this is likely to happen. I must confess one thing that has really stunned me is that some reactions in the Linux coummunity have been bordering on hysteria and unreasoned panic. Mandrake is a company based on principles of community and freedom, hardly one that is likely to engage in the type of practice common among less ethical companies. I guess some folks have been trampled by excessive materialism too many times to be able to know when the herd of rampaging elephants has passed:) ...and to be able to read. Mandrake stated explicitely that they offer this thing only to Mandrake Partners. And that popups are out of the question. In a nice and tidy, clean looking restaurant: Waiter: We serve beer in glasses. Guest: Don't you dare to serve in dirty glasses! Waiter: We don't serve in dirty dishes at all! Guest: If you serve in dirty dishes, I'll be gone! That's all about it. wobo I have noticed that compulsive knee-jerks are a common phenomenon in certain sections of the linux community g Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 07:14, Anne Wilson wrote: I have noticed that compulsive knee-jerks are a common phenomenon in certain sections of the linux community g Anne coming in late in the thread (missed a few) I've noticed a lot of knee-jerk reactions elsewhere on this as well, but I think a good percentage are people (like me) who fear a slippery slope kind of situation: today: We'll only include our partners and only in the install etc... with 9.3 (or 4 or 5): the download version will include random popups and mandatory product activation... Personally, I think Mandrake 1) has a right to make some money, keeping it going financially is a GOOD THING (tm) 2) They've always tried to do the right (ie: ethical) thing so far (AFAIK) so I have high confidence that this move will not corrupt them. I'm basically on a wait-and-see mode. So far, the adverts don't affect me at all (I don't sit by the install and I remove the screensaver and bookmarks and I change to my own start page). If it does get worse, then I'm CERTAIN the backlash will rein Mandrake in because I won't be the only one screaming :) Besides, the great thing about linux is that there's no vendor lock-in, Mandrake is my favorite distro but there's nothing stopping me from switching if I have to. -- Frank Cote [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sunday 14 Sep 2003 1:21 pm, Frank Cote wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 07:14, Anne Wilson wrote: I have noticed that compulsive knee-jerks are a common phenomenon in certain sections of the linux community g I've noticed a lot of knee-jerk reactions elsewhere on this as well, but I think a good percentage are people (like me) who fear a slippery slope kind of situation: Time will tell, on that one. today: We'll only include our partners and only in the install etc... with 9.3 (or 4 or 5): the download version will include random popups and mandatory product activation... Personally, I think Mandrake 1) has a right to make some money, not just a right, but an imperative, if they are to stay in business keeping it going financially is a GOOD THING (tm) 2) They've always tried to do the right (ie: ethical) thing so far (AFAIK) so I have high confidence that this move will not corrupt them. Exactly. They will do what they must, but they will fight long and hard to keep to their ideals, if their track record is anything to go by. I'm basically on a wait-and-see mode. So far, the adverts don't affect me at all (I don't sit by the install and I remove the screensaver and bookmarks and I change to my own start page). If it does get worse, then I'm CERTAIN the backlash will rein Mandrake in because I won't be the only one screaming :) Besides, the great thing about linux is that there's no vendor lock-in, Mandrake is my favorite distro but there's nothing stopping me from switching if I have to. Wait and see is the only sensible thing to do. I can't believe the doomsayers are right, but if they are, there are always the other options... Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:14 pm, many eyes noted that Anne Wilson wrote: I have noticed that compulsive knee-jerks are a common phenomenon in certain sections of the linux community g Anne In certain sections of all communities. It is the lynch mob mentality, carried along by a self created hype, usually regretted in the end, by thinking people anyway, too late of course. Shoot them before they shoot me, before even trying to discover if they own a gun. Make up the stories to suit the need. Don't ask for information, assume what you heard was true. Act before thinking. All very deadly stuff. Charlie -- At Zen centers they say There is a Way to be practiced, And a religious truth to be realized. Tell me, what religious truth is realized? What way is practiced? In your present functioning, what do you lack? What would you fix? Younger newcomers, not understanding this, Immediately believe these mesmerists and Listen to them talk about things that tie people up. - Linji (d. 867) This email is guaranteed to be wholly Linux Mandrake 9.1, Kmail v1.5 and OpenOffice.org1Beta Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:31 am, many eyes noted that Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 14 Sep 2003 1:21 pm, Frank Cote wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 07:14, Anne Wilson wrote: I have noticed that compulsive knee-jerks are a common phenomenon in certain sections of the linux community g I've noticed a lot of knee-jerk reactions elsewhere on this as well, but I think a good percentage are people (like me) who fear a slippery slope kind of situation: Time will tell, on that one. today: We'll only include our partners and only in the install etc... with 9.3 (or 4 or 5): the download version will include random popups and mandatory product activation... Personally, I think Mandrake 1) has a right to make some money, not just a right, but an imperative, if they are to stay in business keeping it going financially is a GOOD THING (tm) 2) They've always tried to do the right (ie: ethical) thing so far (AFAIK) so I have high confidence that this move will not corrupt them. Exactly. They will do what they must, but they will fight long and hard to keep to their ideals, if their track record is anything to go by. I'm basically on a wait-and-see mode. So far, the adverts don't affect me at all (I don't sit by the install and I remove the screensaver and bookmarks and I change to my own start page). If it does get worse, then I'm CERTAIN the backlash will rein Mandrake in because I won't be the only one screaming :) Besides, the great thing about linux is that there's no vendor lock-in, Mandrake is my favorite distro but there's nothing stopping me from switching if I have to. Wait and see is the only sensible thing to do. I can't believe the doomsayers are right, but if they are, there are always the other options... Anne Linux is about choice. Freedom is really only another word for choice. Mandrake has the right to choice, and their ideal might be to make money or otherwise. Every individual has a choice, so stay or go. Whichever you do is right. Whichever way Mandrake decides to go is right. This is not a matter of ads, it is a matter of choice. People threatening Mandrake by vowing to desert are attempting to dictate the choice or remove that choice from Mandrake. Comment on a course of action is fine, but threatening is not the way change is achieved. Ideals are wonderful, but if they lead to death through starvation, or someone that contributes code to leave their computer, walk the street 20 hours a day begging to keep their families and themselves fed they have little time to indulge in any ideals and their choice though still there, is much diminished. Money allows people to be free [have greater choice] and have ideals they can follow. It is terrible, but a fact of life that the poor have less choice and therefore a smaller base upon which to build ideals. Someone only surviving has little time to argue choice or ideals. But then we all reckon we're hard up don't we? There are few of us who realise how really lucky we are to be able to even engage in this discussion. Thanks Mandrake. Charlie. Disclaimer:- I am a freeloader paying only for the media upon which the O/S was written. I would probably have used windows, however, I couldn't afford it. In an attempt to pay my way and in gratitude to Mandrake and Linux, I mention Linux everywhere, and Mandrake in particular, because it is my Linux of preference. In the footer of the front page of every document I write is the following:- This document was created by OpenOffice.org1.1Beta on a machine running Linux Mandrake 9.1. This is Open Source Software created by people dedicated to putting control back into the hands of the user. In the bookstore, when I am able to get to town, I dream at the shelves that contain expensive books, and if someone comes up or is already there looking at books, I strike up a conversation and gently bring Linux into the conversation, talking about the Linux alternatives of the programs that they use in windows. I write letters to local, state and federal government to outline the advantages of Open Source, and Linux in particular with mixed success. I certainly don't pay my way, but with this humble effort thank Mandrake and Linux in particular, I imagine that there are hundreds of thousands like myself. Certainly everyone on this list. -- At Zen centers they say There is a Way to be practiced, And a religious truth to be realized. Tell me, what religious truth is realized? What way is practiced? In your present functioning, what do you lack? What would you fix? Younger newcomers, not understanding this, Immediately believe these mesmerists and Listen to them talk about things that tie people up. - Linji (d. 867) This email is guaranteed to be wholly Linux Mandrake 9.1, Kmail v1.5 and OpenOffice.org1Beta Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 1:56 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 Fascinating. The screensaver idea has disappeared. Checking back on the original page (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising) the screensaver option has been removed, and the pricing is now hidden. I don't think I have a single reservation about the plan in this new form. Go for it, Mandrake. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Richard Urwin schrieb am Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:22:16 +0100: On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 1:56 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 Fascinating. The screensaver idea has disappeared. Checking back on the original page (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising) the screensaver option has been removed, and the pricing is now hidden. My eyes are burning from reading all those hundreds of postings over the last year in aolm about Mandrake never listening to the community! I hope someone tells those people at aolm because they seem never to read the Mandrake Websites. This was so frustrating for me that in the end I left the group and came back here. Now I am happy to see such a clear sign of reaction to consumer opinions. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 03:22, Richard Urwin wrote: On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 1:56 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 Fascinating. The screensaver idea has disappeared. Checking back on the original page (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising) the screensaver option has been removed, and the pricing is now hidden. I don't think I have a single reservation about the plan in this new form. Go for it, Mandrake. and I say go for it full blast, especially if it will get some interesting stuff bundled in. I would have never found MDK except that MDK 7.0 came bundled with a version of Partition Magic, and I needed PM, and I got 7.2 (power pack)because it came with VIA-Voice for Linux, (I got 8.0 because I got to pick Civileme's brain when I had a problem) and I have been hooked ever since. -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 03:24, ed tharp wrote: On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 03:22, Richard Urwin wrote: On Saturday 13 Sep 2003 1:56 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 Fascinating. The screensaver idea has disappeared. Checking back on the original page (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising) the screensaver option has been removed, and the pricing is now hidden. I don't think I have a single reservation about the plan in this new form. Go for it, Mandrake. and I say go for it full blast, especially if it will get some interesting stuff bundled in. I would have never found MDK except that MDK 7.0 came bundled with a version of Partition Magic, and I needed PM, and I got 7.2 (power pack)because it came with VIA-Voice for Linux, (I got 8.0 because I got to pick Civileme's brain when I had a problem) and I have been hooked ever since. That last item is one that would be worth several boxed sets. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Saturday 13 September 2003 21:54, Bill Mullen wrote: Yes, it never ceases to amaze me how many people (newbies especially, but even some old hands who really should know better) consistently think that AOLM is some sort of forum Please just excuse me..but what on earth is AOLM??? Another Old Linux Mandrakian? Nothing else comes to mind:o( Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Saturday 13 September 2003 03:34 am, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I hope someone tells those people at aolm because they seem never to read the Mandrake Websites. This was so frustrating for me that in the end I left the group and came back here. Now I am happy to see such a clear sign of reaction to consumer opinions. wobo Wobo: Errr... what is an aolm? -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Bill Mullen schrieb am Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:54:18 -0400 (EDT): Yes, it never ceases to amaze me how many people (newbies especially, but even some old hands who really should know better) consistently think that AOLM is some sort of forum in which they can expect their concerns, once aired there, to be read and responded to as if they had been sent directly to MandrakeSoft ... no matter how many times or in how many ways we all attempt to disabuse them of this fanciful notion, they just don't get it; if and when they eventually do, two more similarly misguided souls immediately pop up to take their place. Sisyphus had it easy. :) Error 1 Their point is that all mailinglists and web based forums are for the unwashed masses and the true community life is in the newsgroup. So they demand from the Mandrake management to read and post there because websites and web based forums are ... see beginning of chapter. I remember when there was a lively discussion about Gaël Duval being too much a coward to discuss his point s in the newsgroup. Error 2 They seek information about Mandrake everywhere except on the official Mandrake sites. I remember a lot of postings where people asked where they could find this or that info. None of the weathered Linux and Mandrake gurus ever suggested the right place on one of the Mandrake sites. They pointed to /., to all other sites and even to Google. I was fed up with this ignorance although the place was always good for a laugh! Did Sylvan burn his trebuchet yet? I'm sorry to hear that you've left the AOLM fold, Wobo - your many and varied contributions will be missed there, and not only by me. :( Bah, Terminator 1/2/3. At the moment I'm too busy with Mandrake stuff. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Carroll Grigsby schrieb am Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:38:10 -0400: Wobo: Errr... what is an aolm? Newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake It's usenet style to use abbreviations for the groups, like you use them in groups.google.com wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Saturday 13 September 2003 01:36 am, Charlie M. wrote: Take it one step further, Porsche, Ferrari, or whichever French car manufacturer is running the World Rally Championship, Formula 1, etc could by screen saver space from Mandrake Linux and tie all there ads together such as: Charlie Do you really think that this crowd would be an attractive target for Porsche, Ferrari, et al? Top end here is probably for mint Yugos, '83 Valiants and '92 Regals with minimal collision damage. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 13, 2003 05:35 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 13 September 2003 01:36 am, Charlie M. wrote: Take it one step further, Porsche, Ferrari, or whichever French car manufacturer is running the World Rally Championship, Formula 1, etc could by screen saver space from Mandrake Linux and tie all there ads together such as: Charlie Do you really think that this crowd would be an attractive target for Porsche, Ferrari, et al? Top end here is probably for mint Yugos, '83 Valiants and '92 Regals with minimal collision damage. -- cmg g It was just a top of the head example. I never said I was serious about the partners but I was serious about expanding on James' idea. I don't have to worry about such hot-rods, not even a Yugo or Lada since 1993. When you have epilepsy you don't have licenses to operate transportation devices any longer. All that money for flying lessonsgone! Oh well; I can still surf. ;-) C. - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 17:50:13 up 1:43, 1 user, load average: 0.47, 0.32, 0.26 Why are you so hard to ignore? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Y65PG11CaRuZZSIRAk88AJ9M1qHlS5t1JNfwkfdHz2GI9mPaQwCfXXZJ BwTj2TeEUPtWBHnKiAWm2z8= =pVz/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Saturday 13 September 2003 05:56 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: Carroll Grigsby schrieb am Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:38:10 -0400: Wobo: Errr... what is an aolm? Newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandrake It's usenet style to use abbreviations for the groups, like you use them in groups.google.com wobo Wobo: Thanks. I got distracted by the aol -- as in America On Line -- part of it. While there may be such a thing as a Mandrake user group on AOL, my mind couldn't get around it. I gave up on usenet a while back. I get enough spam in my inbox, and my wife takes care of the flames. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 01:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James 6to5 and pick 'em from what I've seen of that and other discussions. It bothers me not what they do as long as it keeps the company going. I'll keep buying releases, testing cooker at every opportunity, and advocate my ass off. I can ignore advertisements; as I do during the little time I have to watch the tube. As long as they don't become intrusive or start mining for personal data I couldn't care less. If they try that I'm outta here so fast I'll leave a fscking sonic boom. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-7mdk 01:22:08 up 11:41, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.34, 0.45 Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown! - -- The Ghostbusters -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YXVfG11CaRuZZSIRAnvIAJsGMSsCPz2QflK4hfktB+ZGao6D3ACfaGeQ INL63+T3/9EwhbPYVZNA6OY= =56xH -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 09:27, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 01:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James 6to5 and pick 'em from what I've seen of that and other discussions. It bothers me not what they do as long as it keeps the company going. I'll keep buying releases, testing cooker at every opportunity, and advocate my ass off. I can ignore advertisements; as I do during the little time I have to watch the tube. As long as they don't become intrusive or start mining for personal data I couldn't care less. If they try that I'm outta here so fast I'll leave a fscking sonic boom. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-7mdk 01:22:08 up 11:41, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.34, 0.45 Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown! - -- The Ghostbusters -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YXVfG11CaRuZZSIRAnvIAJsGMSsCPz2QflK4hfktB+ZGao6D3ACfaGeQ INL63+T3/9EwhbPYVZNA6OY= =56xH -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
*** Guy Van Sanden Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:40:04 +0200 : OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) No. As much as I heard it will only go as far as it goes right now with those nice images during installation. It will just be that instead of the Mandrake images we will see ads of related products. And you can always avoid annoying ads by doing a text install. I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. Yes, that's always a peril for Good Things(TM). But I don't think that Mandrake would carry it as far as Red Hat or SuSE. If they wanted to sell their souls to BIG B. they could have done that before they filed for #11. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. Or do a text install :) wobo -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) --- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Am Freitag, 12. September 2003 09:04 schrieb James Sparenberg: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James Well, as long as i don't get a fortune ad message on each login ;) This ssh-login is sponsored by Twathe, your number one for security cetificates :D LOL Steffen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:01:03 +0200 Wolfgang Bornath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *** Guy Van Sanden Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:40:04 +0200 : OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) No. As much as I heard it will only go as far as it goes right now with those nice images during installation. It will just be that instead of the Mandrake images we will see ads of related products. And you can always avoid annoying ads by doing a text install. I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. Yes, that's always a peril for Good Things(TM). But I don't think that Mandrake would carry it as far as Red Hat or SuSE. If they wanted to sell their souls to BIG B. they could have done that before they filed for #11. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. Or do a text install :) wobo Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. Lee -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) - -- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
*** Lee Wiggers Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:33:06 -0400 : Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. I' think there'll be small text-based ads in the text install then. Of course, the majority of users will use the graphics installer, so the ads will reach their readers. Well, for the 'knowing' there's always a way, isn't it? I guess the main thing will be the website ads. And so far I don't feel annoyed by the Mandrake ads, why should I be annoyed by Thwates or even AMD? It'll be a whole other story reading XXX-RPMs for the adult Linuxer! or Download jay-lo-ass-showing-1.0.1-1mdk.rpm NOW! ;-) wobo -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) --- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And somewhere down the line, one of those advertising dweeps is going to go like this, Well, all those boot messages are sooo not cool, let's dump them in favour of dipers commercials, oh, and this syslog thingie has got to go too, it is diverting attention form our ads. Oh, and while you're at it, ... ... Sep 7 17:59:45 cronos syslogd 1.4.1: restart. Sep 7 18:01:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:02:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:03:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:04:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:05:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:09:45 cronos shutdown: shutting down for system halt Sep 7 18:10:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:11:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:12:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:12:45 cronos init: Switching to runlevel: 0 Sep 7 18:13:00 cronos HEY, DON'T FORGET THE TRIP AND DRINK COCA COLA! ... Not fun :-( On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 11:01, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: *** Guy Van Sanden Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:40:04 +0200 : OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) No. As much as I heard it will only go as far as it goes right now with those nice images during installation. It will just be that instead of the Mandrake images we will see ads of related products. And you can always avoid annoying ads by doing a text install. I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. Yes, that's always a peril for Good Things(TM). But I don't think that Mandrake would carry it as far as Red Hat or SuSE. If they wanted to sell their souls to BIG B. they could have done that before they filed for #11. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. Or do a text install :) wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
*** Guy Van Sanden Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:44:13 +0200 : Sep 7 17:59:45 cronos syslogd 1.4.1: restart. Sep 7 18:01:00 cronos WIN A FREE TRIP TO TIMBUKTU Sep 7 18:13:00 cronos HEY, DON'T FORGET THE TRIP AND DRINK COCA COLA! Not fun :-( Well, both are sensible advices! I'd like to see Timbuktu and I want to be noticed about a Free Trip! And I like that wonderful modern drink for the active youthful people of the world! No, this is out of the question. And as far as I know the Mandrake people they'd rather go fishin' than support this. wobo -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) --- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 11:33, Lee Wiggers wrote: Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. Lee I wouldn't call these prices megabucks, certainly not in the adds business. I do suppose it's a way of getting a few bucks back from the freeloaders.you know: Get your ad-free download version at mandrake club or buy a boxed version. Anyway no-one can stop you clearing the adds out after the installit's GPL:o) I think it's acceptable, only that they're way too cheap. snipped from http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising .. Advertising: - Installation advertising (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version) + bookmarks (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version): $ 7,000 - Screen saver advertising (only for the 9.2 download version): $ 10,000 - Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising: $ 15,000 Browser Default Page : A single message appears for two months (from October 10th to December 10th): $ 7,500 Three different messages (or a single one) appear for 6 months and change every two months (from October 10th to December 10th, December 10th to February 10th and February 10th to April 10th): $ 15,000 Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising (download version only) + 6 months visibility on default page: $ 24,000 ... Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
*** H.J.Bathoorn H.J.Bathoorn Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:33:20 +0200 : - Screen saver advertising (only for the 9.2 download version): $ 10,000 - Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising: $ 15,000 Wow, that's really cheap. I've to tell my local grocery store about it! Well, at least the website offers should be more expensive, counting how many people they reach. All other prices are ok, counting that many people will remove them as soon as they know how to do so. wobo -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) --- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:19:35 +0200, Steffen Barszus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am Freitag, 12. September 2003 09:04 schrieb James Sparenberg:
Ya'll read... Ya'll decide.
Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there.
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising
http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702
For the discussion please go to the second link...
James
Well, as long as i don't get a fortune ad message on each login ;)
This ssh-login is sponsored by Twathe, your number one for security
cetificates :D LOL
Don't worry, we only work with Verisign ;)
j/k
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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
As described on the MDK page, I don't have a problem with this. Anything that keeps MDK going and doesn't make it too annoying is OK by me. I can always remove the bookmarks folder and change the screensaver. If that became too hard then I would seriously consider moving to Debian or something, but nothing indicates that it will be hard. I should hope that they keep the ads targeted. I would actually like to be aware of Linux-capable comercial apps, they don't get much air-time on other media. I would not like to get Microsoft ads, or that SCO one somebody posted to the comments, or indeed about credit cards etc. MDK say they will decide on a FCFS basis, I hope it'll be better selected than that. Otherwise MS will definately buy a slot, for laughs if for no other reason, these prices are petty cash for them. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:44:13 +0200, Guy Van Sanden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:38 +0300, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have any great prob with this, just change the screen-saver Right. And this is ultimately the solution to _any_ advertising. Remember, we're talking about an open source distro here, not the M$ world where everything is invisibly tied together like a spreading and incurable cancer. Even if MDK added advertising in a dozen places (fortune, screensavers, bookmarks, desktop icons, etc), you _know_ one of any dozens of people would come up with a single script to remove it all. So who cares if MDK does this. This won't be a new slippery slope, it'll just help them gain footing on their current one, and it's an easy one for us to deal with. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 01:40 am, Guy Van Sanden wrote: OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. I have to tell you, I think that if they are NOT bought by a big business they will cease to exist. The model they use will not allow them to survive! So you better hope someone like IBM or something buys them. Let's face it, as linux gains legitimacy, it will go more and more commercial I think. As more and more products become available there will be more and more prices attached. It HAS to. people don't work for free forever. As far as marketing ruining them I think they have made some incredibly bone headed moves in the past. IF they had marketing that really knew what they were doing, maybe less poor decisions would get made and some really good decisions would be made. To be honest, I wished Novell would have partnered with them instead of Suse. Oh well. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 09:27, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 01:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James 6to5 and pick 'em from what I've seen of that and other discussions. It bothers me not what they do as long as it keeps the company going. I'll keep buying releases, testing cooker at every opportunity, and advocate my ass off. I can ignore advertisements; as I do during the little time I have to watch the tube. As long as they don't become intrusive or start mining for personal data I couldn't care less. If they try that I'm outta here so fast I'll leave a fscking sonic boom. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-7mdk 01:22:08 up 11:41, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.34, 0.45 Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown! - -- The Ghostbusters -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YXVfG11CaRuZZSIRAnvIAJsGMSsCPz2QflK4hfktB+ZGao6D3ACfaGeQ INL63+T3/9EwhbPYVZNA6OY= =56xH -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 16:52, lorne wrote: On Friday 12 September 2003 01:40 am, Guy Van Sanden wrote: OK, it doesn't sound that bad in the beginning, but this is a dangerous trend. Like displaying ads while installing, OK, but will this mean that usefull messages get less screenspace (ETA, actions, ...) I'm also very cautious of big business getting a hold on Linux, this means it will get ruined and changed by marketing, like most good things. I have to tell you, I think that if they are NOT bought by a big business they will cease to exist. The model they use will not allow them to survive! So you better hope someone like IBM or something buys them. Let's face it, as linux gains legitimacy, it will go more and more commercial I think. As more and more products become available there will be more and more prices attached. It HAS to. people don't work for free forever. I disagree with this, the reason why Linux is this good is because it is free in all sences. If you take that away, how long will its technological advantage over e.g. Windows stay? And why should development not go on in a free world forever? *BSD have managed for a long time, and we still have the FSF and the GPL to defned ourselves If every single Linux distro should go commercial, I'm switching to FreeBSD (completely). If Mandrake becomes something like IBM, I'm going Debian or Gentoo As far as marketing ruining them I think they have made some incredibly bone headed moves in the past. IF they had marketing that really knew what they were doing, maybe less poor decisions would get made and some really good decisions would be made. To be honest, I wished Novell would have partnered with them instead of Suse. Oh well. It is engineering, testing etc that we need. If they had marketing, they wouldn't issue security advisories, but sue people that found bugs, and hush the masses. Just my thoughts, but if this goes any further, I'm going Gentoo/Debian or FreeBSD. On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 09:27, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 01:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James 6to5 and pick 'em from what I've seen of that and other discussions. It bothers me not what they do as long as it keeps the company going. I'll keep buying releases, testing cooker at every opportunity, and advocate my ass off. I can ignore advertisements; as I do during the little time I have to watch the tube. As long as they don't become intrusive or start mining for personal data I couldn't care less. If they try that I'm outta here so fast I'll leave a fscking sonic boom. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-7mdk 01:22:08 up 11:41, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.34, 0.45 Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown! - -- The Ghostbusters -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YXVfG11CaRuZZSIRAnvIAJsGMSsCPz2QflK4hfktB+ZGao6D3ACfaGeQ INL63+T3/9EwhbPYVZNA6OY= =56xH -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax ...the right to trial by jury, that palladium of civil liberty and only safe guarantee for the life, liberty and property of the citizen. Texas Declaration of Independence (March 2, 1836) It's your bill of rights - Vote NO to Prop. 12 on September 13 -- - Original Message - From: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Expert List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:04 AM Subject: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising. Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
David Rankin wrote: Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. Please don't include me in your loathing. Maybe we just have a different definition of 100%. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax ...the right to trial by jury, that palladium of civil liberty and only safe guarantee for the life, liberty and property of the citizen. Texas Declaration of Independence (March 2, 1836) It's your bill of rights - Vote NO to Prop. 12 on September 13 -- - Original Message - From: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Expert List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:04 AM Subject: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising. Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 13:45:00 up 6 days, 1:01, 1 user, load average: 0.70, 0.50, 0.40 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 06:14, Miark wrote: On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:44:13 +0200, Guy Van Sanden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) James Miark __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri September 12 2003 6:33 am, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Friday 12 September 2003 11:33, Lee Wiggers wrote: Let's see if I understand this. Mdk sells advertising for megabucks to companies who want to reach mdk users. Mdk users simply avoid gui install and avoid adverts. What a nice day. Lee I wouldn't call these prices megabucks, certainly not in the adds business. I do suppose it's a way of getting a few bucks back from the freeloaders.you know: Get your ad-free download version at mandrake club or buy a boxed version. Anyway no-one can stop you clearing the adds out after the installit's GPL:o) I think it's acceptable, only that they're way too cheap. I'm happy to see them get some bucks for letting me and many others use a free copy of Mandrake. Yes, I could switch to Debian, but I like the Mandrake philosophy. I'll pay when I buy the box, till then they get some cash flow. Economics still requires cash to be economical. regards, Richard. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 11:41 am, David Rankin wrote: Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. Mr. Rankin; I do believe you're making a fairly broad assumption there David, on little or no evidence. In fact I openly stated that I don't care what they do to *survive,* as long as it doesn't become intrusive. If that happens I won't wait to say goodbye; I'll be history and thanks for the memories. So I would appreciate enormously you not trying to speak for 100% of Mandrake users. OK? You don't know what 100% of Mandrake users are thinking. If you claim to you must have political aspirations, or are possibly considering a career in the clergy, since to the best of my knowledge they are the only individuals that make such sweeping statements and broad assumptions just to get their faces Out There. On Faith in other words. So please try not to claim any form of poetic license since that's just a polite word for bullshit. I've also seen posts from some others that lead me to believe that they too would wait to see what happens. If we're running a distribution of GNU/Linux, and we are; and if we're advocating GNU/Linux to friends, family, and business associates, and it seems we all are, then why the Hell are we complaining if a survival mechanism for the distribution we all seem to treasure is instituted so that we can keep working with it and the company responsible for it? If none of us gave a shit we wouldn't be complaining so vociferously, now would we? My own personal mantra doesn't include whining about the way the world is. I'd rather devote my energies to making certain my own little corner of the real world improves. For everyone. For the people that are willing to listen to me around these parts, that improvement includes, and will continue to include for the foreseeable future, Mandrake Linux. If the management of MandrakeSoft have to take drastic steps to insure their corporate survival it must mean they want that as well. I'll say it once more for those that didn't get it yet; As long as whatever the 'Powers That Be' in MandrakeSoft Management do doesn't intrude on me, or those that I advocate the distribution to, I'll back them the way I always have. If it does, _boom!_ I'm gone. Not an ultimatum, a fact. A very *personal fact;* that means nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clear enough? Kind Regards; Charlie Mahan - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 11:55:31 up 4 min, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.32, 0.16 Nostalgia is living life in the past lane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Yg5aG11CaRuZZSIRAlpcAKCGRDaiJpIArcAwcwVU4BcN4hv6KQCfQY4x CHeHJ4zSoJr4+N6Eoq5bC/E= =yVGy -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 11:20, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 11:41 am, David Rankin wrote: Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. Mr. Rankin; I do believe you're making a fairly broad assumption there David, on little or no evidence. In fact I openly stated that I don't care what they do to *survive,* as long as it doesn't become intrusive. If that happens I won't wait to say goodbye; I'll be history and thanks for the memories. So I would appreciate enormously you not trying to speak for 100% of Mandrake users. OK? You don't know what 100% of Mandrake users are thinking. If you claim to you must have political aspirations, or are possibly considering a career in the clergy, since to the best of my knowledge they are the only individuals that make such sweeping statements and broad assumptions just to get their faces Out There. On Faith in other words. So please try not to claim any form of poetic license since that's just a polite word for bullshit. I've also seen posts from some others that lead me to believe that they too would wait to see what happens. If we're running a distribution of GNU/Linux, and we are; and if we're advocating GNU/Linux to friends, family, and business associates, and it seems we all are, then why the Hell are we complaining if a survival mechanism for the distribution we all seem to treasure is instituted so that we can keep working with it and the company responsible for it? If none of us gave a shit we wouldn't be complaining so vociferously, now would we? My own personal mantra doesn't include whining about the way the world is. I'd rather devote my energies to making certain my own little corner of the real world improves. For everyone. For the people that are willing to listen to me around these parts, that improvement includes, and will continue to include for the foreseeable future, Mandrake Linux. If the management of MandrakeSoft have to take drastic steps to insure their corporate survival it must mean they want that as well. I'll say it once more for those that didn't get it yet; As long as whatever the 'Powers That Be' in MandrakeSoft Management do doesn't intrude on me, or those that I advocate the distribution to, I'll back them the way I always have. If it does, _boom!_ I'm gone. Not an ultimatum, a fact. A very *personal fact;* that means nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clear enough? Actually, You must also consider that you are making a contextual assumption. That assumption is that what you believe him to be talking about is in fact what he's referring to. His statement is, accurate. Now as to what it is that 100% of it's users loath. He hasn't specified. You have assumed. He didn't specify. So personally I didn't feel he was making any statement with which I find fault. He's right ... if 100% (or statistically close to 100% since nothing of man, is ever absolute.) of the users loath it. It will kill it. If however it isn't something that 100% loath but a large enough group do loath it also will kill, or cripple it. (Case in point, the Edsel, one vehicle line out of 20 offered that year, that nearly bankrupted Ford.) You yourself, have given over a scenario that might qualify as part of the 100% loath factor. When the adds intrude upon what you want to do. Say for example ... data mining. Personally I put the adds in place of screensavers (look into cooker you'll see that 9.2 has no screensavers other than xscreensaver in the main. This means that the adds are for Gnome and KDE the only available screensaver.) On the order of zeroconf, galaxy and mdkkdm. Unwanted intrusions that fall under the first order of removal and only serve to make Mandrake installs look more complicated than they really are. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 12:51 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: Mr. Rankin; I do believe you're making a fairly broad assumption there David, on little or no evidence. In fact I openly stated that I don't care what they do to *survive,* as long as it doesn't become intrusive. If that happens I won't wait to say goodbye; I'll be history and thanks for the memories. So I would appreciate enormously you not trying to speak for 100% of Mandrake users. OK? You don't know what 100% of Mandrake users are thinking. If you claim to you must have political aspirations, or are possibly considering a career in the clergy, since to the best of my knowledge they are the only individuals that make such sweeping statements and broad assumptions just to get their faces Out There. On Faith in other words. So please try not to claim any form of poetic license since that's just a polite word for bullshit. I've also seen posts from some others that lead me to believe that they too would wait to see what happens. If we're running a distribution of GNU/Linux, and we are; and if we're advocating GNU/Linux to friends, family, and business associates, and it seems we all are, then why the Hell are we complaining if a survival mechanism for the distribution we all seem to treasure is instituted so that we can keep working with it and the company responsible for it? If none of us gave a shit we wouldn't be complaining so vociferously, now would we? My own personal mantra doesn't include whining about the way the world is. I'd rather devote my energies to making certain my own little corner of the real world improves. For everyone. For the people that are willing to listen to me around these parts, that improvement includes, and will continue to include for the foreseeable future, Mandrake Linux. If the management of MandrakeSoft have to take drastic steps to insure their corporate survival it must mean they want that as well. I'll say it once more for those that didn't get it yet; As long as whatever the 'Powers That Be' in MandrakeSoft Management do doesn't intrude on me, or those that I advocate the distribution to, I'll back them the way I always have. If it does, _boom!_ I'm gone. Not an ultimatum, a fact. A very *personal fact;* that means nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clear enough? Actually, You must also consider that you are making a contextual assumption. That assumption is that what you believe him to be talking about is in fact what he's referring to. His statement is, accurate. Now as to what it is that 100% of it's users loath. He hasn't specified. You have assumed. He didn't specify. So personally I didn't feel he was making any statement with which I find fault. He's right ... if 100% (or statistically close to 100% since nothing of man, is ever absolute.) of the users loath it. It will kill it. If however it isn't something that 100% loath but a large enough group do loath it also will kill, or cripple it. (Case in point, the Edsel, one vehicle line out of 20 offered that year, that nearly bankrupted Ford.) Bullshit James. 100% is 100% all the time every time and I don't fit the profile. So I'm making no assumptions here. I'm stating unequivocally the simple fact that nobody but me has the right to speak for me. In any way. In other words that IF (yours) is an awfully big word and I want to know what If means. ;) DR Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. under the subject line: DR Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising. borrowed from you BTW. Still no assumption except for David's that he knows what 100% of it's users loath. What is it's? Nobody here has been talking to me about what I think. Nor has anyone endeavoured to read my mind. You yourself, have given over a scenario that might qualify as part of the 100% loath factor. When the adds intrude upon what you want to do. Say for example ... data mining. Personally I put the adds in place of screensavers (look into cooker you'll see that 9.2 has no screensavers other than xscreensaver in the main. This means that the adds are for Gnome and KDE the only available screensaver.) On the order of zeroconf, galaxy and mdkkdm. Unwanted intrusions that fall under the first order of removal and only serve to make Mandrake installs look more complicated than they really are. Ah yes, I'll concede that point. To a degree, because the assumption *you* are making is that I would loath some undefined thing. All I said is that I would choose not to tolerate that behaviour, not that my fondness would turn to loathing. The difference is that I'm assuming that the choice is mine and that nobody has decided for me. Like any other entity in Nature; MandrakeSoft has
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
I appreciate your response, and perhaps I was presumtive in my 100% suggestion. I do see your point. So why don't we all just declare the clean elegance of linux code and distributions dead. Let's all say Hey, it's OK to start down the path of code bloat and incideous little processes running in the background to direct spam to my machine. Say yes, I like the idea of pop-ups and spyware polluting my browser and desktop. And say yes to all the inconvenience just so someone can put another almighty dollar in thier pocket. Get real! Many people look to linux to get away for just this type of annoying BS. Yes, I like and support mandrake. But I am UTTERLY APPAULED at the premise and idea of including incestuos slutty advertising in the mdk distribution. Mdk was a great distro long before the corporatization and focus on $ became its fixation. In my eyes, and I will say in the eyes of many others, the inclusion of unwanted and unsolicited ads, in any form, no matter how easily removed is unacceptable that will make mdk a distribution I would no longer choose to be a part of or support. Hooray for the marketing scum, they have finally found a way to pollute a linux distribution. I guess someone will get a nice fat check for that idea. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax ...the right to trial by jury, that palladium of civil liberty and only safe guarantee for the life, liberty and property of the citizen. Texas Declaration of Independence (March 2, 1836) It's your bill of rights - Vote NO to Prop. 12 on September 13 -- - Original Message - From: Charlie M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 11:41 am, David Rankin wrote: Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. Mr. Rankin; I do believe you're making a fairly broad assumption there David, on little or no evidence. In fact I openly stated that I don't care what they do to *survive,* as long as it doesn't become intrusive. If that happens I won't wait to say goodbye; I'll be history and thanks for the memories. So I would appreciate enormously you not trying to speak for 100% of Mandrake users. OK? You don't know what 100% of Mandrake users are thinking. If you claim to you must have political aspirations, or are possibly considering a career in the clergy, since to the best of my knowledge they are the only individuals that make such sweeping statements and broad assumptions just to get their faces Out There. On Faith in other words. So please try not to claim any form of poetic license since that's just a polite word for bullshit. I've also seen posts from some others that lead me to believe that they too would wait to see what happens. If we're running a distribution of GNU/Linux, and we are; and if we're advocating GNU/Linux to friends, family, and business associates, and it seems we all are, then why the Hell are we complaining if a survival mechanism for the distribution we all seem to treasure is instituted so that we can keep working with it and the company responsible for it? If none of us gave a shit we wouldn't be complaining so vociferously, now would we? My own personal mantra doesn't include whining about the way the world is. I'd rather devote my energies to making certain my own little corner of the real world improves. For everyone. For the people that are willing to listen to me around these parts, that improvement includes, and will continue to include for the foreseeable future, Mandrake Linux. If the management of MandrakeSoft have to take drastic steps to insure their corporate survival it must mean they want that as well. I'll say it once more for those that didn't get it yet; As long as whatever the 'Powers That Be' in MandrakeSoft Management do doesn't intrude on me, or those that I advocate the distribution to, I'll back them the way I always have. If it does, _boom!_ I'm gone. Not an ultimatum, a fact. A very *personal fact;* that means nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clear enough? Kind Regards; Charlie Mahan - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 11:55:31 up 4 min, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.32, 0.16 Nostalgia is living life in the past lane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/Yg5aG11CaRuZZSIRAlpcAKCGRDaiJpIArcAwcwVU4BcN4hv6KQCfQY4x CHeHJ4zSoJr4+N6Eoq5bC/E= =yVGy -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Thanks for the debate James. This is fun. :-) Maybe I should get back to work? or take it to the OT listg http://mdw1982.dyndns.org/mailman/listinfo/mandrakeot Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 01:56 pm, David Rankin wrote: edited, interspersed I appreciate your response, and perhaps I was presumtive in my 100% suggestion. I do see your point. So why don't we all just declare the clean elegance of linux code and distributions dead. Let's all say Hey, it's OK to start down the path of code bloat and incideous little processes running in the background to direct spam to my machine. Say yes, I like the idea of pop-ups and spyware polluting my browser and desktop. And say yes to all the inconvenience just so someone can put another almighty dollar in thier pocket. Get real! OK I will. Nobody has suggested there would be any data mining and automatic update and rotation of advertising related backgrounds/screen saver slide shows. I'd agree totally that I would be one of the first off the bus if this were to happen. But I didn't read those assumptions into that page. As to the Clean elegance of linux code.. and it's death; default screen-saver slide-shows and backgrounds are added at the whim of the distributions' developers and management under the GPL. What code corruption are we discussing? The kernel is GNU/Linux, Mandrake Linux is a distribution. I don't think any of the employees and management at MandrakeSoft are threatening to force you to run only their advertising branded .png files, or that you can't run the distribution on a compiled and customized vanilla kernel, do you? So what linux code are we on about? Many people look to linux to get away for just this type of annoying BS. Yes, I like and support mandrake. But I am UTTERLY APPAULED at the premise and idea of including incestuos slutty advertising in the mdk distribution. Mdk was a great distro long before the corporatization and focus on $ became its fixation. In my eyes, and I will say in the eyes of many others, the inclusion of unwanted and unsolicited ads, in any form, no matter how easily removed is unacceptable that will make mdk a distribution I would no longer choose to be a part of or support. I'm one of the people that came to GNU/Linux in general, and Mandrake Linux in specific, in order to regain control of what I paid for. That hasn't changed, and until it does I'll keep advocating and using this distribution. This is still a great distribution IMHO and a few fscking pictures aren't going to change that. That's my opinion, no one else has to agree. That's one of the most wonderful things about Open Source Software and the community built on it. Choice. Would you prefer Mandrake Linux become another SuSe and have no download edition? Or would you like to only be able to run it because you bought a subscription? Mandrake Linux is still a totally GPL compliant distribution as far as I can see, and will be after they add some detestable advertising pictures that I can delete. So can you. Hooray for the marketing scum, they have finally found a way to pollute a linux distribution. I guess someone will get a nice fat check for that idea. I still detest the product of Schools of Business and the Masters of Business Administration they've been producing for the past 25+ years. If they'd stop playing with models and get on with business there would be a lot less rancorous discussions such as this one in the world. Especially over _free software_. So I suppose your sarcasm and cynosure toward marketing departments is another thing we share. As well as a good debate apparently. g Thanks David. g Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 13:58:38 up 2:08, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.08, 0.08 I hate it when my foot falls asleep during the day cause that means it's going to be up all night. -- Steven Wright -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YitLG11CaRuZZSIRAg2GAJ426bIjtFiWytxjt2zSU6YYeBdvMQCgmoN9 AEC59/5GXbEKMxnoCFprf+w= =v8i+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 02:14 pm, ed tharp wrote: Thanks for the debate James. This is fun. :-) Maybe I should get back to work? or take it to the OT listg http://mdw1982.dyndns.org/mailman/listinfo/mandrakeot Thanks for the reference ET but I vowed never to return to that list. Besides this is only slightly OT iMHO. C. - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 14:24:47 up 2:34, 1 user, load average: 0.28, 0.13, 0.10 I own seven-eighths of all the artists in downtown Burbank! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YivYG11CaRuZZSIRAmDyAJ4/dcZqC+30uko3gWH6UA1AxEuxwQCbBHkK z3Sn9Ff5+4BzL3Fvz5O6Qqw= =lgZm -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 16:26, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 02:14 pm, ed tharp wrote: Thanks for the debate James. This is fun. :-) Maybe I should get back to work? or take it to the OT listg http://mdw1982.dyndns.org/mailman/listinfo/mandrakeot Thanks for the reference ET but I vowed never to return to that list. Besides this is only slightly OT iMHO. not really OT at all, (imho) and I am sorry you feel that someone could chase you away from any OT list, but hopefully the real reason to stay away is the banality. ie.; hopefully your life has more purpose than to read others OT opinions. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do
textinstalls, they'll probably be removed.
And how do you imagine they'll notice that?
Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the
number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions.
Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the
right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do
urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.)
What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to
something like this?
We do have principles you know.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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pgp0.pgp
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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 02:49 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. Thank you Vincent, I thought I was fighting alone here. :-) Not fighting really, but it has been a rather lively discussion. Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 14:54:58 up 3:04, 1 user, load average: 0.09, 0.11, 0.11 A clever prophet makes sure of the event first. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YjL+G11CaRuZZSIRApqpAKCjDopz3yp9OiEiR/GoMmnA7TmCJACfcSFW V5mZVfGkYn/jq4sGQwoNtwo= =LDXR -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Charlie M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:30 -0600: What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. Thank you Vincent, I thought I was fighting alone here. :-) Have you read my point right at the beginning of this thread? I said all there is to say if you think a bit about what Mandrake has done over the last 5 years (Mandrake Linux had 5th birthday!) and what they could have done if they were such [fill in to your delight]. I've nothing against this way of making some extra revenue. wobo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 13:49, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a suggestion that it would be done. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 23:07, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I've nothing against this way of making some extra revenue. OK, so let's start a new thread on Mandrake undercutting ad-prices and selling itself (and thus us) too cheap;o) ..ducking and running ... Good luck, HarM BTW Charlie, when don't you work? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 03:07 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: Charlie M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:30 -0600: What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. Thank you Vincent, I thought I was fighting alone here. :-) Have you read my point right at the beginning of this thread? I said all there is to say if you think a bit about what Mandrake has done over the last 5 years (Mandrake Linux had 5th birthday!) and what they could have done if they were such [fill in to your delight]. I've nothing against this way of making some extra revenue. wobo I also. Me too. I'm in! g Yeah, I read your comments, but sympa's been playing hide the posts again. So I read them much later than I should have. Thanks. Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 15:11:18 up 3:20, 1 user, load average: 0.23, 0.27, 0.17 Please forgive me if, in the heat of battle, I sometimes forget which side I'm on. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YjbwG11CaRuZZSIRAoW2AJ4nzqztfGec4YJ/+bTX8Ib3lhLB8wCeOtQ/ AXdkPgyL/3hnqfyWq6bgFFA= =tzrQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 03:12 pm, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Friday 12 September 2003 23:07, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I've nothing against this way of making some extra revenue. OK, so let's start a new thread on Mandrake undercutting ad-prices and selling itself (and thus us) too cheap;o) ..ducking and running ... Good luck, HarM BTW Charlie, when don't you work? When I start doing the migraine dance and can't step away from the porcelain receiver. g Besides what I do is Officially a hobby. No need to duck 'n' dash, I won't throw rocks. ;-) C. P.S.: Since this is such a short post I was going to edit out the fortune tacked on below. Then I read it and said nope! - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 15:15:13 up 3:24, 1 user, load average: 0.43, 0.31, 0.20 Youth is not a time of life, it is a state of mind; it is a temper of the will, a quality of the imagination, a vigour of the emotions, a predominance of courage over timidity, of the appetite for adventure over love of ease. Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years; people grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. Worry, doubt, self-distrust, fear, and despair -- these are the long, long years that bow the head and turn the growing spirit back to dust. Whether seventy or sixteen, there is in every being's heart the love of wonder, the sweet amazement at the stars and the star like things and thoughts, the undaunted challenge of events, the unfailing childlike appetite for what next, and the joy and the game of life. You are as young as your faith, as old as your doubt; as young as your self-confidence, as old as your fear, as young as your hope, as old as your despair. So long as your heart receives messages of beauty, cheer, courage, grandeur and power from the earth, from man, and from the Infinite, so long you are young. -- Samuel Ullman -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YjiyG11CaRuZZSIRAgmUAKCK8MNLkuI7LG/lbZRwJxTXfBdUNACfVE8T c/2xmoyjOEka6+iEhEfUn90= =mRqh -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 12:42, Charlie M. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 12:51 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: Mr. Rankin; I do believe you're making a fairly broad assumption there David, on little or no evidence. In fact I openly stated that I don't care what they do to *survive,* as long as it doesn't become intrusive. If that happens I won't wait to say goodbye; I'll be history and thanks for the memories. So I would appreciate enormously you not trying to speak for 100% of Mandrake users. OK? You don't know what 100% of Mandrake users are thinking. If you claim to you must have political aspirations, or are possibly considering a career in the clergy, since to the best of my knowledge they are the only individuals that make such sweeping statements and broad assumptions just to get their faces Out There. On Faith in other words. So please try not to claim any form of poetic license since that's just a polite word for bullshit. I've also seen posts from some others that lead me to believe that they too would wait to see what happens. If we're running a distribution of GNU/Linux, and we are; and if we're advocating GNU/Linux to friends, family, and business associates, and it seems we all are, then why the Hell are we complaining if a survival mechanism for the distribution we all seem to treasure is instituted so that we can keep working with it and the company responsible for it? If none of us gave a shit we wouldn't be complaining so vociferously, now would we? My own personal mantra doesn't include whining about the way the world is. I'd rather devote my energies to making certain my own little corner of the real world improves. For everyone. For the people that are willing to listen to me around these parts, that improvement includes, and will continue to include for the foreseeable future, Mandrake Linux. If the management of MandrakeSoft have to take drastic steps to insure their corporate survival it must mean they want that as well. I'll say it once more for those that didn't get it yet; As long as whatever the 'Powers That Be' in MandrakeSoft Management do doesn't intrude on me, or those that I advocate the distribution to, I'll back them the way I always have. If it does, _boom!_ I'm gone. Not an ultimatum, a fact. A very *personal fact;* that means nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clear enough? Actually, You must also consider that you are making a contextual assumption. That assumption is that what you believe him to be talking about is in fact what he's referring to. His statement is, accurate. Now as to what it is that 100% of it's users loath. He hasn't specified. You have assumed. He didn't specify. So personally I didn't feel he was making any statement with which I find fault. He's right ... if 100% (or statistically close to 100% since nothing of man, is ever absolute.) of the users loath it. It will kill it. If however it isn't something that 100% loath but a large enough group do loath it also will kill, or cripple it. (Case in point, the Edsel, one vehicle line out of 20 offered that year, that nearly bankrupted Ford.) Bullshit James. 100% is 100% all the time every time and I don't fit the profile. So then 100% isn't 100% it's 99.9 (infinity) So I'm making no assumptions here. I'm stating unequivocally the simple fact that nobody but me has the right to speak for me. In any way. Mathematically yes. You are correct. But in real life it's often not. Humans being what they are. Ask G-Dubya. In other words that IF (yours) is an awfully big word and I want to know what If means. ;) And I'm searching but can't find the word if except where you use it.. h. DR Good bye Mandrake I can think of no more assinine way to kill a distribution's reputation than to add to it what 100% of its user loath. under the subject line: DR Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising. borrowed from you BTW. Still no assumption except for David's that he knows what 100% of it's users loath. What is it's? Nobody here has been talking to me about what I think. Nor has anyone endeavoured to read my mind. And if I did read your mind what makes you think I'd let you know *grin*. You yourself, have given over a scenario that might qualify as part of the 100% loath factor. When the adds intrude upon what you want to do. Say for example ... data mining. Personally I put the adds in place of screensavers (look into cooker you'll see that 9.2 has no screensavers other than xscreensaver in the main. This means that the adds are for Gnome and KDE the only available screensaver.) On the order of zeroconf, galaxy and mdkkdm. Unwanted intrusions that fall under the first order of removal
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:56:30PM -0600, Charlie M. wrote:
Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many
users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed.
And how do you imagine they'll notice that?
Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on
the number of impressions seen by this box including install
impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing
habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users
habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the
mix.)
What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever
stoop to something like this?
We do have principles you know.
Thank you Vincent, I thought I was fighting alone here. :-)
Not fighting really, but it has been a rather lively discussion.
I'm actually refusing to discuss the topic itself (I've made two posts on
cooker and that's all I will make on it). But this spyware/data mining
thing is just plain ridiculous.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:10:58PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do
textinstalls, they'll probably be removed.
And how do you imagine they'll notice that?
Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the
number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions.
Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the
right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do
urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.)
What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to
something like this?
We do have principles you know.
The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a
suggestion that it would be done.
I would have answered: they have no way of noticing unless they had a public
poll and asked you.
Just mentioning data mining will stir the pot enough that people will start
flipping out and tomorrow we'll see a /. post about how we're data mining as
well as removing all screensavers and replacing them with ads.
/me shudders
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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pgp0.pgp
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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 15:03, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:10:58PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a suggestion that it would be done. I would have answered: they have no way of noticing unless they had a public poll and asked you. Just mentioning data mining will stir the pot enough that people will start flipping out and tomorrow we'll see a /. post about how we're data mining as well as removing all screensavers and replacing them with ads. /me shudders Point taken. Downside, We will get asked. Double downside. It's already on slashdot (before I even posted the first post in the thread) and This question is already being asked. Not by me. But it is rearing it's ugly head. I still think trying to get boxed sets in stores next to SuSE and RedHat is a better way to generate income. But that just my opinion. Especially if they sold the disk only set this way. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Friday 12 September 2003 03:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James James: You really stirred it up this time. Good job! Since all of the hullabaloo began (./, PCLO, the Club, here and other places), Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 IMHO, I'd prefer not to have the ads, but if they help to get Mandrake's head above the water, it's worth a try. I'll try hard not to think about the image of the camel's head poking under the edge of the tent. i'm looking forward to the inevitable ZDNet article. The reader responses there do wonders for my self esteem -- most of them seem to be from people who have been judged to be too crude and too stupid to appear on Jerry Springer. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 17:10, James Sparenberg wrote: On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 13:49, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a suggestion that it would be done. James we have had ads for mandrake products all along,,, some other ads might be just as well... just my $.02 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 17:56, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Friday 12 September 2003 03:04 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Ya'll read... Ya'll decide. Conversation is on pclinux. probably best to keep it there. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/partners/advertising http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7702 For the discussion please go to the second link... James James: You really stirred it up this time. Good job! Since all of the hullabaloo began (./, PCLO, the Club, here and other places), Mandrake has issued a clarification at http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/en/mdkads.php3 IMHO, I'd prefer not to have the ads, but if they help to get Mandrake's head above the water, it's worth a try. I'll try hard not to think about the image of the camel's head poking under the edge of the tent. i'm looking forward to the inevitable ZDNet article. The reader responses there do wonders for my self esteem -- most of them seem to be from people who have been judged to be too crude and too stupid to appear on Jerry Springer. -- cmg The old story of any news is good news. I do think that admw over in cooker (I didn't start that thread *grin*) has a valid point. Mandrake should state what they won't do, as well as what they will. Personally I don't think the people at MDK would ever allow any kind of spyware or data mining of individual users. I'd love it if they would come right out and say that. Next nice thing. MDK and 9.2 are hitting the front pages. YIPPEE No more Aren't they dead. questions. Now if I can just get the funds together to setup a boxed set distro channel. (Oh and it's also going to take a bit of learning just what the heck that entails *grin* don't think it will happen.) I'd love to have the boxes on the shelves. Either that or I could get lucky enough to convince someone to let me assemble a book called Managing Desktop Linux with URPMI and include a 3 disk set, of 9.2. 2 things have got to go to the forefront. Mandrakes commitment to GPL, and URPMI. Sorry Debian users. I've used and like apt-get. But URPMI is much, much, better control. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 04:02:47PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to
something like this?
We do have principles you know.
The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a
suggestion that it would be done.
I would have answered: they have no way of noticing unless they had a public
poll and asked you.
Just mentioning data mining will stir the pot enough that people will start
flipping out and tomorrow we'll see a /. post about how we're data mining as
well as removing all screensavers and replacing them with ads.
/me shudders
Point taken. Downside, We will get asked. Double downside. It's
already on slashdot (before I even posted the first post in the thread)
and This question is already being asked. Not by me. But it is rearing
it's ugly head. I still think trying to get boxed sets in stores next
to SuSE and RedHat is a better way to generate income. But that just my
opinion. Especially if they sold the disk only set this way.
Well, yes... it's important and it would just plain old be nice. With 9.1
we had some issues with our distributor in the US that caused some problems.
With 9.2, it should be better (but I can only make that a personal
observation; I'm not in any way involved in that end of the product).
I really don't see what the big deal is tho. The installer won't be
plastered with ads, and I don't think the text installer will be going
anywhere (it's proven to be too valuable for certain types of installs).
Anyways, you guys can be asked but that doesn't mean you have to answer. So
it isn't really a downside. It's not like we can say if you don't answer
the question, and honestly, you're not allowed to use Mandrake anymore. =)
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 19:02, James Sparenberg wrote: On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 15:03, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:10:58PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a suggestion that it would be done. I would have answered: they have no way of noticing unless they had a public poll and asked you. Just mentioning data mining will stir the pot enough that people will start flipping out and tomorrow we'll see a /. post about how we're data mining as well as removing all screensavers and replacing them with ads. /me shudders Point taken. Downside, We will get asked. Double downside. It's already on slashdot (before I even posted the first post in the thread) and This question is already being asked. Not by me. But it is rearing it's ugly head. I still think trying to get boxed sets in stores next to SuSE and RedHat is a better way to generate income. But that just my opinion. Especially if they sold the disk only set this way. James Isn't that one of McMillian's deals tho? how can we as Mandrake users get McMillian to wake up? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 19:32, ed tharp wrote: On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 19:02, James Sparenberg wrote: On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 15:03, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:10:58PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote: Much of the problem is that if it is noticed that too many users do textinstalls, they'll probably be removed. And how do you imagine they'll notice that? Data Mining, Once you log in it sends back to MDK information on the number of impressions seen by this box including install impressions. Then eventually you tie it into the users web surfing habits so that the right kind of adds get sold to match the users habits. (when you do urpmi updates you get your new adds in the mix.) What on God's green earth makes you think MandrakeSoft would ever stoop to something like this? We do have principles you know. The question was how I could imagine that it would be noticed. Not a suggestion that it would be done. I would have answered: they have no way of noticing unless they had a public poll and asked you. Just mentioning data mining will stir the pot enough that people will start flipping out and tomorrow we'll see a /. post about how we're data mining as well as removing all screensavers and replacing them with ads. /me shudders Point taken. Downside, We will get asked. Double downside. It's already on slashdot (before I even posted the first post in the thread) and This question is already being asked. Not by me. But it is rearing it's ugly head. I still think trying to get boxed sets in stores next to SuSE and RedHat is a better way to generate income. But that just my opinion. Especially if they sold the disk only set this way. James Isn't that one of McMillian's deals tho? how can we as Mandrake users get McMillian to wake up? Thought it was. (I did find 8.2 in a bookstore) However it sometimes seems that some of the old guard book publishers are using the same clue as the RIAA when it comes to market awareness. Haven't seen evidence of McMillian in the mix since 8.2. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
James Sparenberg schrieb am Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:14:23 -0700: Thought it was. (I did find 8.2 in a bookstore) However it sometimes seems that some of the old guard book publishers are using the same clue as the RIAA when it comes to market awareness. Haven't seen evidence of McMillian in the mix since 8.2. IIRC there was a discussion between MandrakeSoft and McMillan. Did MandrakeSoft not cancel the partnership? McMillan seemed to be a bit careless with boxed sets produced for USA/UK-only. Saw one of those myself in a Frankfurt bookstore (that's Frankfurt, Germany, Old Europe). wobo -- ... and anyway, html can't carry a virus. (Aug 2001, Usenet) --- GnuPG Public Key on http://www.wolf-b.de/misc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
Ok, A thought here. In an effort to be constructive. How many times have you seen on say Automobile company sites something like Volkswagen or Toyota, screensavers you can download? Linux has never been ripe with high quality screensavers. They either are beautiful CPU suckers like some of the openGL ones (keuphoria for example) or butt ugly ones like juggle. What if Mandrake sold space on the disk for these companies to create Linux screensavers. I mean a full blown screensaver. Not just a random picture collage. One thing a lot of these are designed to be is beautiful. (on windows or MAC) We win. MDK wins and the companies win. Then the user can choose which advertising screen saver they want. It doesn't feel intrusive like popunders or the read this page or you can't go on crap. But it is an add. I mean heck. The new IBM add for Linux would make a great screensaver. And if the user chooses it, they can't complain. I mean heck I'd chose a screensaver from Chrysler based on the new Crossfire. Or maybe one from Lancome featuring some stunningly beautiful faces wearing their makeup. They pay MDK for the right to be in the distro, They pay MDK for the help in creating the screensavers. (MDK could subcontract that part.) They get a longer and more valuable impression level. Heck they could even have the new ones as downloads in update and send the companies feedback as to the number of downloads. That's not intrusive, nor does it invade privacy. They could be targeted. With screensavers marked de ca, en tw etc., so people get what they want. What do ya'll think? The only thing they would have to be is quiet. (think business office or even worse a real quiet house when suddenly the screensaver kicks in on box 2 and you forgot to turn down the sound after listening to the latest mp3 from NIN.) I mean if it's here. It's real. It's not going away. So why not benefit from it completely? James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] (OT)Mandrake and Advertising.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 September 12, 2003 11:09 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: Ok, A thought here. In an effort to be constructive. How many times have you seen on say Automobile company sites something like Volkswagen or Toyota, screensavers you can download? Linux has never been ripe with high quality screensavers. They either are beautiful CPU suckers like some of the openGL ones (keuphoria for example) or butt ugly ones like juggle. What if Mandrake sold space on the disk for these companies to create Linux screensavers. I mean a full blown screensaver. Not just a random picture collage. One thing a lot of these are designed to be is beautiful. (on windows or MAC) We win. MDK wins and the companies win. Then the user can choose which advertising screen saver they want. It doesn't feel intrusive like popunders or the read this page or you can't go on crap. But it is an add. I mean heck. The new IBM add for Linux would make a great screensaver. And if the user chooses it, they can't complain. I mean heck I'd chose a screensaver from Chrysler based on the new Crossfire. Or maybe one from Lancome featuring some stunningly beautiful faces wearing their makeup. They pay MDK for the right to be in the distro, They pay MDK for the help in creating the screensavers. (MDK could subcontract that part.) They get a longer and more valuable impression level. Heck they could even have the new ones as downloads in update and send the companies feedback as to the number of downloads. That's not intrusive, nor does it invade privacy. They could be targeted. With screensavers marked de ca, en tw etc., so people get what they want. What do ya'll think? The only thing they would have to be is quiet. (think business office or even worse a real quiet house when suddenly the screensaver kicks in on box 2 and you forgot to turn down the sound after listening to the latest mp3 from NIN.) I mean if it's here. It's real. It's not going away. So why not benefit from it completely? James I think it's definite improvement over the few other suggestions I've read James. It actually *is* constructive. Take it one step further, Porsche, Ferrari, or whichever French car manufacturer is running the World Rally Championship, Formula 1, etc could by screen saver space from Mandrake Linux and tie all there ads together such as: (VO, TV Spot; still shots or video of the latest and greatest from whichever corporation in an attractive, exiting setting) Our technology (or product etc) turns up in all the right places. (examples from still or video images); including one of the World's most advanced computer operating systems. (Corporation name and logo) and Mandrake Linux, partners in helping ease your journey into the future. Just off the top of my head, I ain't an advertising maven. But you get the idea. Use the same images for the screen saver with the same captions in an attractive font. It's an idea anyway Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-8mdk 23:26:03 up 1:59, 1 user, load average: 0.32, 0.22, 0.19 Never let someone who says it cannot be done interrupt the person who is doing it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/YqzNG11CaRuZZSIRAl1hAKCKQc02rHagB7WcdD/k+1XLtoVczgCcDK7S ksAyluN1uU0gVMDe2yz9Vrs= =Wxtp -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
