[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
I have a question about Vastu. We have heard about the benefits of Vastus for years. MMY once said that building just one Vastu would be of great benefit for the country. Except for the house in Vlodrop where MMY lives, has the TMO ever build a Vastu? MMY and his family has enough money to build a lot of Vastus. Are his family living in Vastus? Or is it just something we in the West need. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe pundit labor will be offered as collateral? An indentured servant type of thing... You know - collect water from your well, beat your clothes on the river rocks, collect your cow dung for your evening cooking fire... :-) That labor in India is worth around $1 per day, so 600,000,000,000 days equals 1.644 billion pundit-years of labor. Which is 1,000 pundits working for 1.644 million years. Blink of an eye, from a cosmic point of view. Barely into Sat Yuga. Yeah, but if that labor is outsourced to India from the West, it can generate alot more revenue than $1 a day... The west has already provided the revenue to build the organisation to the point that all these things can be offered and at least on the surface look somewhat respectable. Of course as soon as that happened the official price for learning TM was raised to the point that it was no longer available. Perhaps to lessen interest so that the finances will never be looked into deeply. Perhaps to close down the teaching part of the movement in the West, so that it's power structure can be moved to India where the middle class is growing rapidly and the whole thing can be played again. JohnY --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/11/05 5:35 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Reminds me of something I heard Benny Feldman say on the KHOE radio station here. He was pitching some sort of world peace bonds, and saying that they were a safe investment because they were backed by the Raam. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Four locations to radiate peace from sunrise to sunset
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If someone only allows yes-men to stay around, then they get what they want. And what they deserve. Karmically and in every other sense... I'm pretty sure that MMY knows this... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cold Water [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This Plan is Cancelled. The area of Jabalpur lies in an EarthQuake active zone. Hence, the Indian government has rejected the application for making the highest building over there. Regards ColdWater The question is, *When* did the Indian guvmint reject the application? If it was a while ago, then the blueprints are *definitely* being used as a fund-raising ripoff scam. Or they got recycled during the latest round of publicity about the Twin towers thing in NY. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it is not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. same old same old... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:16 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Not if what the 'teachersez' is a spontaneous upadesha aimed directly at what you are experiencing. These are intimate matters and if truly compassionate they will hit their mark. Agreed. That's a different situation. And rare in the West as far as I can tell. Relatively speaking (in comparison to large meditation movements), oh yeah. Although having said that, there are many mahasiddhas and enlightened beings who only met their teacher once or a couple of times in their entire lifetime. Once there's been an authentic pointing out instruction (of the primordial state) and there is a connection given to the lineage of masters, that's all one may need. So that never happens for someone who learns TM? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced satsang (and that's wise because you'd never be able to handle it). Handle it meaning, according to Barry, accepting what the authorities tell you. Not at all. You obviously didn't read what I wrote. (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. My satsang fu is superior to your satsang fu ... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this self-trust thing in regard to realization is a bit off. Trust is an emotional/mental assumptive act. You have to trust when there is doubt for whatever reason. It's hard to doubt your own experience, even in waking state. But doubting pure existence itself is even more difficult! To say I doubt my own existence is a bit of a paradox, of course, because prior to doubting is existence. So you can't doubt that you are. You can doubt any experience, but not that. Now to inquire into who this you is will bring about some interesting results! You seem to mean by realization a state of being where the conscious mind's thinking process has stopped and what is left is just silent awareness and witnessing. However this state cannot last in everyday activity, because conscious conceptual thinking forms an important evolutionary function for us. I don't want to deny the value of this silent state, but personally I mean by realization a permanent formation of a new more advanced, more holistic and inclusive structure of the mind. This new structure is capable of better and more truthfully relating to the world than the previous structure. I think that it is an important cornerstone in the evolution of our mind to learn to trust oneself more than someone we consider to be an authority. This could also mean being better capable of discriminating, when to trust an authority and when not. It is clear we cannot be specialists in every area, so we have to trust the authority of others, but less in interpreting our subjective experiences. Of course it is good to have an open mind and listen to what others have to say, but I myself am the authority who decides, if I accept that information or not. Irmeli Skip Alexander liken various stages of enlightenment (CC and beyond) to Piagetian stages. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it is not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being enlightened felt in the physiology? Where is I am awake felt in the physiology? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: And on the other hand, he's telling them that they cannot trust their experience that they are not enlightened and ought instead to accept the authorities' assertion that they are already enlightened. Tom T writes: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. snore The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. So is the experience of ignorance. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. I repeat last week's statement: Stress is an excuse. Did you think you were responding to a post that was talking about stress? Insomuch as stress refers to anything that prevents one from being enlightened spontaneously once their body reaches full maturity, just about ALL the enlightened-oriented discussions in this forum have some reference to stress. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced satsang... snip (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. Oh, and one more question, actually the most important one when talking of satsang -- when you were sitting in the room with the person conducting the satsang, did you interact with them personally and have a one-to-one conver- sation or did you just sit and watch? I really find this to be the key as to whether one gets anything out of the experience or not. INteresting. Some traditions hold that merely being around an enlightened person can be enlightening... I'm sorry if you've provided this information in the past and I missed it, but if you have, I missed it. So just fill me in with the info again, if you would. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have read this entire thread, something I would not normally do, and I declare my brain to be well and truly fried. The really interesting part for me is this Barry-Judy thing. What's their story? Do they really despise each other? Why? How did it all begin? Did they ever have a little thing going, perhaps? I like human stories. These discussions about who gets satsang and who doesn't seem like intellectual one-upmanship. Whoever has the most deft mind wins. I would sooner have no mind at all. But I do love soap operas. Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) shhh... It is the Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name on AMT... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:40 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 9:51 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom The idea that there is an idea that you are not enlightened and it is not an experience but an idea is also an idea. It's also a story. Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being enlightened felt in the physiology? It's felt by a feeler. Therefore it's dualistic. What is felt? Perhaps a sense of dis-ease, perhaps tension, maybe anxiety or neurosis. There are many different experiencers capable of experiencing. There are therefore as many answers are there are styles of dis-ease and separation. Not everyone experiences the enlightened state as sensation-riding-on-emptiness so it is a rather limited idea. The idea that physiology is important is IMO merely a style of conditioning common in TM circles. You were taught that this was important. And of course it sounds cool to say. The question I naturally would want to ask is 'why are you accepting that conditioning (that physiology is relevant re: enlightenment) as important? How are you defining physiology as an idea? The physiology and enlightenment story is a popular TMO drama. it is an assumption that Western science has some validity in this arena: change the way the nervous system works, and you change consciousness; change consciousness and you've changed the way the nervous system works. There's no difference. It's a non-duality thang. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis Be specific please. What do you know and how does it appear in the physiology. This is not a trap but genuine inquiry. I really want know how it appears for you and what sensations in the physiology you can comment on. Thanks Tom I'd characterize it generally as a feeling of resistance. It can manifest in many different ways, from butterflies in the stomach to feeling drowsy to feeling hungry to feeling a lack of physical energy, among other things, and overall a feeling of resistance to just being with those discomforts, the sense that they constitute interference that has to be removed. Another example would be severe physical pain and an accompanying sense of panic if there isn't some way to quickly mitigate it. Another way to put it is that what MMY calls the mind's tendency to go for more and more is still in operation: one continues compulsively to seek to increase pleasure and minimize pain, psychic or physical (and the two are reciprocal). The physiology is not supporting the experience of All, which would terminate the compulsion (as opposed to just the inclination) to seek more and more. That was very well stated. Seriously. I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person if she used that intellect a little less and just felt things a little more. A discriminating observation... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:40 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: Same question, then: where and how is the experience of not being enlightened felt in the physiology? It's felt by a feeler. Therefore it's dualistic. What is felt? Perhaps a sense of dis-ease, perhaps tension, maybe anxiety or neurosis. There are many different experiencers capable of experiencing. There are therefore as many answers are there are styles of dis-ease and separation. Not everyone experiences the enlightened state as sensation-riding-on-emptiness so it is a rather limited idea. The idea that physiology is important is IMO merely a style of conditioning common in TM circles. You were taught that this was important. And of course it sounds cool to say. The question I naturally would want to ask is 'why are you accepting that conditioning (that physiology is relevant re: enlightenment) as important? How are you defining physiology as an idea? The physiology and enlightenment story is a popular TMO drama. You are assuming that I have asked the question merely to play out a drama that I am conditioned to play out, with no purpose other than reinforcing a story that my small self finds important. That would be an impractical thing to do, without any purpose whatsoever, in my opinion. Rather, the reason that I posed the question was because of my personal belief based on experience, that if the idea or experience of being unawakened can be identified and *localized* within the physical body's physiology, it can be dealt with, and eliminated, if one so chooses. Sounds like Yet Another Story, to me... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--This is not my idea of who Jesus was. The trouble with spouting doctrine, or dogma, written from the Greek and Latin, and melting down through time, by Religious Dictator, Ceasears, Emperors, Politicians(like BushCo,), is that it is all about control, and black and white. These doctrines leave no room for questioning, which is how Jesus taught. Funny how Jesus is always portrayed in the movies,. as though he is some great Roman Orator. Ridiculous. If you know what the reality of being with Jesus was like, and the two dimentional view you get through this dogma, like Maharishi says, Knowledge in the book, stays in the book. And also, Knowledge in Structured in Consciousness. As far as the Mantras are concerned, all you need to know is that they are sounds which have been used for thousands of years to Transcend, and Experience the Kingdom of Heaven Within as Jesus recommended we do. Jesus also recommended and suggested that his Disciples perform the miracles he told them were possible, and heal people through true spiritual power. The same kind of spiritual power, like healing and using herbs, that thousand of innocent people, where burned alive in public, by the Dogma of the Church, being used then as it is now, to divide and conquer, and keep humanity in the demonic grip of lies, and deceptions. So, take you Jesus Christ and keep him to yourself. Take your dogma and talk to other parrots like yourself, to you all can congratulate yourselves, that you are on the path, and no one else, who doesn't believe like you, could possibly be making spiritual progress. This attitude in it's other manifestation, was at the root of so many holocausts throughout time. The Higher Power, is something you have to discover for yourself? It is not something that is contained in a book or in a concept. The only way to experience God, is to become One with God, like Jesus suggested. His prayer goes like this: Our Father who art in Heaven. My Father in Heaven, Jesus' Father in Heaven, are the same Father. And as Jesus suggested: Seek ye for that Father within. Maharishi has provided and invaluable tool for going within, and finding the God who is within us, and like the Ancient Jewish people, like Jesus knows, God is beyond any name or form. He (SHE) is Transcendental. R.Gimbel Seattle,WA. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever have a girlfriend that knew that if she dug her nails in your ass as you were about to cum it would totally ruin the experience for you? I read this and I just want to commit suicide. I give up on this planet. - Original Message - From: kjdruhl To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM and Christianity: PBS feature Dear friends, let me just answer to some of your points: On the issue of Christ being the only way: That is not my true believer's idea, but it is what Christ is teaching. It is not matter of my way or your way, it is a matter of God's way or man's way. Man's way does not work, never, no matter what it is. The gulf between God and man is so great that only God can bridge it. And He did. Christ not only said that He is the way the truth and the life (He is, not He knows), He was also very outspoken about others making such claims. He said they were thieves and robbers. He also said that unless I partake of His nature, I have no life in myself, that without Him I can do nothing, and so on. He said that He came to save the world, not to condemn it. He implored people to come to Him, and allow Him to carry their burdens. But He also said that in the end He would judge everyone. Very clear words, they leave no doubt about what He was talking about; that is if you care to read them. Now did He really say all this? This question actually came up immediately after His resurrection and final ascent, as certain people were trying to muddy the waters. Peter and John address it in their apostolic letters to the churches, and make a strong point that they were eye witnesses of all that happened, and of what He said. They also fully support and authenticate the teachings of Paul, who received direct revelation from Christ. Now Peter and John certainly understood what Jesus was saying, and they rendered it in Koine Greek, in the gospels and in their letters. Koine Greek was the commonly shared language of the time, very much as English is today, so the translation of these scriptures is fairly well established. Recent discoveries of Greek manuscripts from that period confirm that the Greek words in the Bible were used in their commonly accepted meanings. Sparaig made the point how could a simple natural relaxation technique prevent me from receiving from God. Well, obviously it couldn't. But TM is not a simple natural relaxation technique, far from it. The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 11:36 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: Rather, the reason that I posed the question was because of my personal belief based on experience, that if the idea or experience of being unawakened can be identified and *localized* within the physical body's physiology, it can be dealt with, and eliminated, if one so chooses. Yeah I see what you are saying. Ease of tensions at the level of the body is helpful. I find mind-tension often is related to and held by body tension. I place my awareness there and smile. Sometimes I just smile. On a side note my wife actually did her graduate work on bodily tension in premature babies. We are all born with tension and trauma. One part of the collective American dis-ease IMO is that we don't touch each other that much. Mothers don't massage their babies and grandchildren don't massage their grandparents. Energy locks in external arguments. We support each other in carrying our tensions. A friends of ours, Eva Reich, has worked a lot with this--esp. in Neonates. It was really with her help that years ago I sought out a practitioner to help dissolve what Eva's father called character armor. I was fortunate, it was a relatively easy thing for me if remembered to breathe. I was fortunate to be present at my son's birth. First interaction i ever had with him was giving him a massage while he was in the incubator cube. The nurse thought it was odd, but looked at him closely and said: Smiling. Guess he likes it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MSNBC.com Article: Man dies after 50 hours of computer games
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man dies after 50 hours of computer games A South Korean man who played computer games for 50 hours almost non- stop died of heart failure minutes after finishing his mammoth session in an Internet cafe, authorities said on Tuesday. http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/579CM=EmailThisCE=1 _ Koreans will do that. Saw a video of the world champion ball ballancer at his status-winning demonstration. Managed to keep a ball bouncing while never touching the ground for 24+ hours straight without using his hands. He had a personal accupuncturist following him around sticking needles in his legs to keep him collapsing from the pain. Did I mention he was Korean? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know you guys would really like to see some kind of repressed romance in Barry's and my relationship, but that would be BEEG mistake. As Barry himself is fond of saying, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It wouldn't take much to get me going about what it really is I dislike so much in Barry, so if you don't want to hear about it, I'd suggest you change the subject. If you're really interested, there's plenty to read to that effect on alt.m.t. One little tiny hint: It has to do with authenticity. Judy I don't think that anyone doubts that you and Barry don't get along. It's just fun to speculate about what is going on behind the story, so to speak... BTW, did I ever tell you about Long-cock man and Tooth-vagina woman? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This below was well stated and goes to the heart of your relationship. You,each of you lack something the other has too much of. Barry, you throw the baby out with the bathwater and seem to be intuitive, but foresake much of conventional logic. So lets call you heart. Judy, you are a rationalist to the extreme, and throw the bathwater out with the baby. We'll call you intellect But together you would be pretty whole. I think you two are like two characters in a Shakespearian drama. So only a love hate relationship would be possible, just as only a love hate relationship is possible between the heart and mind. And if you merely love to hate, it's still a love hate relationship. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:22 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person if she used that intellect a little less and just felt things a little more. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Testing for God In December of last year, Nature magazine, depending on how you view it either the first or second most important science publication in the world, published an article headlined Buddhism on the Brain. While most of the piece detailed a conference on the human mind held at the Dalai Lama's headquarters in Dharamsala, buried within it was a paragraph which undoubtedly caused some of the relentlessly scientific readers of Nature to clean their glasses and begin reading the startling words out loud. Fred Gage, a neuroscientist at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, who had presented his research showing that the mammalian brain can change and adapt during adulthood, reported a conversation with the Dalai Lama. At one point I asked: `What if neuroscience comes up with information that directly contradicts Buddhist philosophy?', said Gage. The answer was: `Then we would have to change the philosophy to match the science.' The shock value for scientists was not what this said about the plasticity of Buddhism, but rather hearing the words in the context of the near H-bomb-level conflict between science and religion playing out in the United States. I can give you some sense of the incendiary nature of this dispute from that classic literary measure of the public mindnewspaper headlines. Nothing new under the sun... Spiritual and Material Values Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith -it is on the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable. -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Still got that damned intellect baby hanging around, no matter how I try to get rid of the little bastid. You've no doubt heard the expression, 'whatever you put your attention on, grows'. Reminds me of people who constantly try to give up smoking or overeating, and are unsuccessful because they can't stop thinking about that which they seek to avoid. Hence, the object of desire just grows larger... Perhaps it is better to first enquire why you want to get rid of the little bastid. What you may find is that once you make friends with the little bastid, he'll quit hanging around so much. Feed the monkey... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MSNBC.com Article: Man dies after 50 hours of computer games
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Llundrub wrote: Man dies after 50 hours of computer games A South Korean man who played computer games for 50 hours almost non-stop died of heart failure minutes after finishing his mammoth session in an Internet cafe, authorities said on Tuesday. http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/579CM=EmailThisCE=1 _ Many particularly young computer game programmers treat the process of making games like monks in monastery needing to show how macho they are by spending an enormous chunk of their lives on the project. Herding these young dweebs I often pissed them off my sending them home at the end of the day as they didn't seem to realize that beyond a certain point they were writing more bugs than decent code. Some managers didn't do this and we got twenty something programmers suffering strokes (or becoming alcoholics). You're a fan of Larry Constantine, I take it? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0130601233/qid=1123832167/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-1826055-9923345? v=glances=books Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tremendous evidence of how TM dimishes the ego. (Not!) TM doesn't diminish the ego, it allows it to become Infinite, if one so chooses. Infinite Ego. That's why the tallest building project flopped. Sucker wasn't big enough. Tallest Ego in the Universe project? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: World's tallest tower planned in India- link attached
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tremendous evidence of how TM dimishes the ego. (Not!) TM doesn't diminish the ego, it allows it to become Infinite, if one so chooses. Infinite Ego. That's just semantics. Most paths speak of the diminishment of the ego though it is the process of it dissolving into the infinite. In any case the desire to build the worlds tallest building means someone has a bad case of I am somethingness. :) At least the name was changed fromn Maharishi Tower to Center of India Tower. That's an important step... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:54 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: In all likelyhood, the real reason that Maharishi stopped comming to the US was the number of lawsuits against him, and the probability that he would be required to testify in court. Not some 'cosmic' or divine thing. What type of lawsuits? There were the ones about the siddhi's misrepresentations and at least a couple of others that I can't remember the details of When was the NJ school case? Don't forget the one about the badger and the clown shoes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kjdruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear friends, let me just answer to some of your points: [...] TM is based on the release of spiritual power. If it would be just matter of keeping the mind restful and alert, why the instruction to come immediately back to the mantra, once there is awareness of no mantra no thought? Once you're aware of no-mantra, no-thought, you're no longer in that state, so the process starts once again... Why then is it so important to select the mantra carefully? Why do these supposedly meaningless words have such powerful influence? Because they're supposed to ahve some more subtle value than a random thought. HIndus explain this by talking about pleasing deities. Physiologists, assuming that such effects are ever documented, would explain it in more modern terms... No, let us realize that what Maharishi is bringing out now is much closer to the truth than what is taught in the intro lecture. Don't we all know that the true content of the teaching is spoonfed, one little bit after the other, until you have embraced spiritual concepts and practices that you would have never entered into before. If you want to embrace them, fine. Make your choice in freedom. But don't deceive yourself into thinking that the ideas you are basing your eternal destiny on are self-evident, or that they are compatible with the teachings of Christ. Sincerely Kai Thanks for your response, Kai. I still believe that you have lost something along the way, but no doubt you believe that I am lacking, so its all good (so to speak). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thru and thru dilettante analysis of RV I 164, 39 ; part 5
Rco akSare parame vyoman(,) *yasmin* devaa(H)... (Contrary to what we earlier stated, the nominative singular form of 'vyoman' is 'vyoma', not 'vyomaa', because it's a neuter gender word, not masculine, as we misrecalled. Thus it's analogous to 'karman' whose nom. sing. is 'karma', as we all prolly know.) Now, 'yasmin' is the locative singular form of the relative pronoun 'yaH/yat'. In this case, because it antecedent obviously is the neuter gender word 'vyoman', it's the loc. of 'yat' ([that], which). So, it seems quite safe to translate 'yasmin' here to '(in the highest heaven), where...'. (In pronouns some case forms are rather different from those of other nouns. An analogous form would here be something like 'yadi', but that's a conjunction that means 'if'.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'Jesus says:'I am the Light, and Look for Me Within, Not in a book'
--This is not my idea of who Jesus was. The trouble with spouting doctrine, or dogma, written from the Greek and Latin, and melting down through time, by Religious Dictator, Ceasears, Emperors, Politicians(like BushCo,), is that it is all about control, and black and white. These doctrines leave no room for questioning, which is how Jesus taught. Funny how Jesus is always portrayed in the movies,. as though he is some great Roman Orator. Ridiculous. If you know what the reality of being with Jesus was like, and the two dimentional view you get through this dogma, like Maharishi says, Knowledge in the book, stays in the book. And also, Knowledge in Structured in Consciousness. As far as the Mantras are concerned, all you need to know is that they are sounds which have been used for thousands of years to Transcend, and Experience the Kingdom of Heaven Within as Jesus recommended we do. Jesus also recommended and suggested that his Disciples perform the miracles he told them were possible, and heal people through true spiritual power. The same kind of spiritual power, like healing and using herbs, that thousand of innocent people, where burned alive in public, by the Dogma of the Church, being used then as it is now, to divide and conquer, and keep humanity in the demonic grip of lies, and deceptions. So, take you Jesus Christ and keep him to yourself. Take your dogma and talk to other parrots like yourself, to you all can congratulate yourselves, that you are on the path, and no one else, who doesn't believe like you, could possibly be making spiritual progress. This attitude in it's other manifestation, was at the root of so many holocausts throughout time. The Higher Power, is something you have to discover for yourself? It is not something that is contained in a book or in a concept. The only way to experience God, is to become One with God, like Jesus suggested. His prayer goes like this: Our Father who art in Heaven. My Father in Heaven, Jesus' Father in Heaven, are the same Father. And as Jesus suggested: Seek ye for that Father within. Maharishi has provided and invaluable tool for going within, and finding the God who is within us, and like the Ancient Jewish people, like Jesus knows, God is beyond any name or form. He (SHE) is Transcendental. Further: This idea that 'I am the way, the truth, and the light, and no one get's into Heaven unless I say so... This is exactly the same attitude the Roman's had toward the Jews of the time; That they must bow to Caesar, and worship him as a god; and the Jews refused to do that, which eventually led to the Roman Holocaust, of that period and the dispersal of the Jews and many Jews of the time who believed in the teachings of Jesus. Like Maharsihi, or any true Holy man, Jesus, did not want people to worship him; Instead he wanted them to rise in consciousness, just as Maharishi, or any other Awakened One, attempts to do. The religion which is institutionalized as Chrisitanity, is more a political doctrine, based in Roman, and European attitudes, traditions, and abuses of power. R.Gimbel Seattle,WA. - Original Message - From: kjdruhl To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM and Christianity: PBS feature Dear friends, let me just answer to some of your points: On the issue of Christ being the only way: That is not my true believer's idea, but it is what Christ is teaching. It is not matter of my way or your way, it is a matter of God's way or man's way. Man's way does not work, never, no matter what it is. The gulf between God and man is so great that only God can bridge it. And He did. Christ not only said that He is the way the truth and the life (He is, not He knows), He was also very outspoken about others making such claims. He said they were thieves and robbers. He also said that unless I partake of His nature, I have no life in myself, that without Him I can do nothing, and so on. He said that He came to save the world, not to condemn it. He implored people to come to Him, and allow Him to carry their burdens. But He also said that in the end He would judge everyone. Very clear words, they leave no doubt about what He was talking about; that is if you care to read them. Now did He really say all this? This question actually came up immediately after His resurrection and final ascent, as certain people were trying to muddy the waters. Peter and John address it in their apostolic letters to the churches, and make a strong point that they were eye witnesses of all that happened, and of what He said. They also fully support and authenticate the teachings of Paul, who received direct revelation from Christ. Now Peter and John certainly understood what Jesus was saying, and
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Ya never know. In some important respects, the TMO does business pretty much the way that Enron did, and until the bubble burst, Enron was the darling of the investment banks. One of my favorite of Enron's scams (written up in, I think, Fortune) was when they went to invest- ment banks to get capital for a new joint venture company they were planning with Blockbuster Video. It sounded a bit dicey, but with the combination of the Enron name and the Blockbuster name, the banks loaned the new front company billions of dollars in startup money. It turns out that Blockbuster had *never* agreed to be part of the scheme, recognizing it as a scam at first sight. But Enron told the banks that Blockbuster was a solid partner anyway. 2-3 weeks after the money had been transferred to the new startup company, lo and behold! the company had declared bankruptcy and none of the money could be found; the banks lost every penny of their investment That had been Enron's plan all along. Compare and contrast to the TMO's history of projects like Vedaland, the new world's tallest building, etc. Same business model -- get naive people excited enough about a project to invest money in it, have the project fail, keep the money. All I can say is, if this is how being in tune with the Laws Of Nature works, I'll stick to being adharmic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No is the correct answer, as far as I'm concerned. But there are donors out there who I'm sure will swear on a stack of Gitas that this will be the safest, most secure investment of all time. And then they'll conveniently forget when the bonds default. What discount rate would you assign? Whatever the net value of the TMO assets are and then the discount rate would be whatever that amount is as a percentage of the $600 billion. But that's assuming those assets will be in existence at the time the bonds come due which is when? 20 years? Who knows what the net value of the TMO assets will be then...probably zero...so you're probably right: they're worthless. Quick, what's the net value of the World Peace Fund that Bevan manages? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Precisely zero, I believe is Peter's point. Com'n...certainly we can assign SOME sort of discount factor to those bonds, no? 50%? 10%? Even 1%? Well, maybe you've got a point. At 1%, they'd be worth $6,000,000,000 and I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anyone paying even that much. Assuming the colatteral for the bonds would be the worth of the TMO and assuming that to be about (and this is a complete guess) $1 billion, then the discount factor for the bonds would be about 0.175%. How much revenue can organic foodstuffs bring in per hectare? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--I heard that Maharishi stopped coming to the United States, because he felt it had become too dangerous here, and he didn't want to be sacrificed in that way.(as he has done the martyer thing in a past time, been there, done that); In those days, the Pope had been shot, as well as Reagan.. and the mood of the country had changed. He just felt that the U.S. had become too violent and fundementalist, and dangerous, which is quite true. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:54 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: In all likelyhood, the real reason that Maharishi stopped comming to the US was the number of lawsuits against him, and the probability that he would be required to testify in court. Not some 'cosmic' or divine thing. What type of lawsuits? There were the ones about the siddhi's misrepresentations and at least a couple of others that I can't remember the details of When was the NJ school case? Don't forget the one about the badger and the clown shoes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question about Vastu. We have heard about the benefits of Vastus for years. MMY once said that building just one Vastu would be of great benefit for the country. Except for the house in Vlodrop where MMY lives, has the TMO ever build a Vastu? MMY and his family has enough money to build a lot of Vastus. Are his family living in Vastus? Or is it just something we in the West need. Ingegerd Could swear that all the new buildings at MUM were supposed to be Vastu- ed, and that the old ones were supposed to be revamped that way as well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Compare and contrast to the TMO's history of projects like Vedaland, the new world's tallest building, etc. Same business model -- get naive people excited enough about a project to invest money in it, have the project fail, keep the money. Perhaps Doug Henning was completely naive, but inthe case of Vedaland,the people involved were *completely* sincere, or so I believe. All I can say is, if this is how being in tune with the Laws Of Nature works, I'll stick to being adharmic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
The whole gift of the teaching of Maharishi, is based on the meaninglessness of the Mantra, and the efforlessness, of the technique. You see, in India, the people there do worship the different aspects of the Deity, through puja, and repetitive repetition of names of God. But that is not the way to Transcendence, which is the reason for Transcendental Meditation. Whatever symbol you would like to give to the mantra, is just that, a symbol, and all of that is to be transcended. And so it is with Christian Dogma and Docrine; In the end, if you can't transcend the words on the page, your just a like a dead stuffed parrot. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kjdruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear friends, let me just answer to some of your points: [...] TM is based on the release of spiritual power. If it would be just matter of keeping the mind restful and alert, why the instruction to come immediately back to the mantra, once there is awareness of no mantra no thought? Once you're aware of no-mantra, no-thought, you're no longer in that state, so the process starts once again... Why then is it so important to select the mantra carefully? Why do these supposedly meaningless words have such powerful influence? Because they're supposed to ahve some more subtle value than a random thought. HIndus explain this by talking about pleasing deities. Physiologists, assuming that such effects are ever documented, would explain it in more modern terms... No, let us realize that what Maharishi is bringing out now is much closer to the truth than what is taught in the intro lecture. Don't we all know that the true content of the teaching is spoonfed, one little bit after the other, until you have embraced spiritual concepts and practices that you would have never entered into before. If you want to embrace them, fine. Make your choice in freedom. But don't deceive yourself into thinking that the ideas you are basing your eternal destiny on are self-evident, or that they are compatible with the teachings of Christ. Sincerely Kai Thanks for your response, Kai. I still believe that you have lost something along the way, but no doubt you believe that I am lacking, so its all good (so to speak). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't... Time to transcend! I don't know if you meant that seriously or not, but damned if ya do, damned if ya don't was Arjuna's dilemma and Time to transcend was Krishna's instruction to him to reconcile the dilemma! MMY has taught me well! The student has become the teacher... To get back to the original subject (sorta) of the thread, that's what satsang is all about. Arjuna was standing there in the chariot whining like a sonofabitch. Oh poor me...damned if I do, damned if I don't...poor, poor pitiful me. He was tell- ing himself stories. Krishna kept him from doing so. He busted each of Arjuna's nice-sounding stories about how lost he was in ignorance and gnarly reality as it came up. Arjuna fought like a madman, trying to distract Krishna and trick him into allowing Arjuna to get back to what he was really interested in -- telling stories about poor, poor pitiful me and about how circumstances were preventing him from being enlight- ened. But Krishna didn't fall for it. He prevented Arjuna from telling himself stories long enough so that, in the resulting silence, the stories fell away, the self that had made them up fell away, and Arjuna was left with only Self. Have any of you folks ever been to a satsang and seen someone try to run the Arjuna routine? It's hilarious, and one of the most entertaining things you can ever get to see. (It's actually far more valuable to try to run it yourself, of course, and to feel what happens when it's not allowed, but it's fun even to watch.) The student sits there in front of the teacher trying desperately to cling to the intellect and trot out reason after reason after reason for why he or she is not enlightened. And the teacher, if it's a good one, just laughs and doesn't fall for the stories. The good teacher will basically *prevent* the student from telling him- or herself the stories, and will keep nudging the student back to Here And Now. And, if the student is lucky, Here And Now will reveal eternity. It's just the neatest thing. But the hilarious part is the look on the students' faces when the act they have developed for an entire lifetime to keep the realization of enlightenment away fails to find a receptive audience, and their poor, poor pitiful me routine is turned into lucky me despite their best attempts to keep it from happening. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definitely, though I'd go with other than the Mothers. I enjoyed Frank's creative streak but his music was just too weird. Peaches en regalia (sp?) was the only song I really liked, because it had *gasp!* a melody... Peaches En Regalia was Zappa's takeoff of the graduation march they play at high school and college graduations. Really. MMY rock opera? I'd vote for Yes or maybe U2. Nah. Zappa. With Flo and Eddie, the two ex-Turtles who played with him for a while. Flo is a natural to play Bevan, and Eddie would have done a smashing Raja Ram. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever have a girlfriend that knew that if she dug her nails in your ass as you were about to cum it would totally ruin the experience for you? I read this and I just want to commit suicide. I give up on this planet. Based on your analogy, I really understand that feeling. But my tendency is to just smile a little and go on my way Go, come...whatever gets you off. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/11/05 6:53 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw the Mothers in Greenwich Village in about 1966. Ritchie Havens opened for them. Great night. I once saw the Mothers when Eric Clapton sat in and jammed with them. It turned into about a one-hour, happy guitar duel between Zappa and Clapton, with the two of them swapping solo licks and with Zappa winning hands-down. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. My satsang fu is superior to your satsang fu ... Not at all. It was just obvious, from the way Judy has comported herself for ten years, that she really *hadn't* ever experienced satsang first-hand, sitting with a teacher and having a one-on-one conversation with the kind of teacher who doesn't allow the student to tell stories. Obvious. I was trying to get *Judy* to realize this, because she'd just as obviously deluded her- self into thinking she *had* experienced satsang. It really isn't a matter of one fu being better than another fu, just of whether one has experienced fu or not. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced satsang... snip (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. Oh, and one more question, actually the most important one when talking of satsang -- when you were sitting in the room with the person conducting the satsang, did you interact with them personally and have a one-to-one conver- sation or did you just sit and watch? I really find this to be the key as to whether one gets anything out of the experience or not. INteresting. Some traditions hold that merely being around an enlightened person can be enlightening... True. But it's not satsang. Judy obviously did not understand this. Nor, it would seem, do you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person if she used that intellect a little less and just felt things a little more. A discriminating observation... And actually an honest one. I'm convinced that a period of several months spent feeling the resistance that comes up in her when her buttons are pushed would *resolve* that resis- tance and enable her to be far less reactive and *far* more happy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. My satsang fu is superior to your satsang fu ... Not at all. OK. My satsang fu is beyond compare... It was just obvious, from the way Judy has comported herself for ten years, that she really *hadn't* ever experienced satsang first-hand, sitting with a teacher and having a one-on-one conversation with the kind of teacher who doesn't allow the student to tell stories. Obvious. I was trying to get *Judy* to realize this, because she'd just as obviously deluded her- self into thinking she *had* experienced satsang. It really isn't a matter of one fu being better than another fu, just of whether one has experienced fu or not. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's pretty obvious that you have never experienced satsang... snip (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. Oh, and one more question, actually the most important one when talking of satsang -- when you were sitting in the room with the person conducting the satsang, did you interact with them personally and have a one-to-one conver- sation or did you just sit and watch? I really find this to be the key as to whether one gets anything out of the experience or not. INteresting. Some traditions hold that merely being around an enlightened person can be enlightening... True. But it's not satsang. Judy obviously did not understand this. Nor, it would seem, do you. That might be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Did you miss the joke? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --I heard that Maharishi stopped coming to the United States, because he felt it had become too dangerous here, and he didn't want to be sacrificed in that way.(as he has done the martyer thing in a past time, been there, done that); In those days, the Pope had been shot, as well as Reagan.. and the mood of the country had changed. He just felt that the U.S. had become too violent and fundementalist, and dangerous, which is quite true. With all due respect, this has been said by pretty much every spiritual charlatan in history running from the law. And their followers believed it when they said it, too. It's misdirection, and an obvious appeal to the elitism of the students -- Ooooh...they're trying to kill our teacher...we must be *really* special to be able to be with such a teacher. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Did you miss the joke? Did you miss that the joke was a way of avoiding the question? :-) IMO, it's really the key issue in many ways. Does a person's world view state that the thing that keeps them from realizing enlightenment has a physical basis, and some kind of physical reality, or are the physical symptoms described just that, the inevitable karmic result of resisting enlightenment? Stated differently, which comes first -- does the physical discomfort prevent realization of enlightenment, or does *resisting* the realization of enlight- enment cause the physical discomfort? The former world view is a way of clinging to excuses. It's not me that is preventing my realization of enlightenment...it's all of these physical feelings of discomfort (often labeled stress). If they weren't present, I'd realize enlightenment. The latter is more like dropping the act and saying to oneself, There IS no obstacle to realization of enlightenment, physical or otherwise. Every spiritual teacher worth their salt in history has told me that I am already enlightened, so why not believe it, and drop this crutch of an excuse? In my experience, dropping the excuses can open the doorway to the realization of enlightenment. IMO, of course. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Did you miss the joke? Did you miss that the joke was a way of avoiding the question? :-) IMO, it's really the key issue in many ways. Does a person's world view state that the thing that keeps them from realizing enlightenment has a physical basis, and some kind of physical reality, or are the physical symptoms described just that, the inevitable karmic result of resisting enlightenment? Stated differently, which comes first -- does the physical discomfort prevent realization of enlightenment, or does *resisting* the realization of enlight- enment cause the physical discomfort? The former world view is a way of clinging to excuses. It's not me that is preventing my realization of enlightenment...it's all of these physical feelings of discomfort (often labeled stress). If they weren't present, I'd realize enlightenment. The latter is more like dropping the act and saying to oneself, There IS no obstacle to realization of enlightenment, physical or otherwise. Every spiritual teacher worth their salt in history has told me that I am already enlightened, so why not believe it, and drop this crutch of an excuse? In my experience, dropping the excuses can open the doorway to the realization of enlightenment. IMO, of course. Interesting story. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMO, it's really the key issue in many ways. Does a person's world view state that the thing that keeps them from realizing enlightenment has a physical basis, and some kind of physical reality, or are the physical symptoms described just that, the inevitable karmic result of resisting enlightenment? Stated differently, which comes first -- does the physical discomfort prevent realization of enlightenment, or does *resisting* the realization of enlight- enment cause the physical discomfort? The former world view is a way of clinging to excuses. It's not me that is preventing my realization of enlightenment...it's all of these physical feelings of discomfort (often labeled stress). If they weren't present, I'd realize enlightenment. The latter is more like dropping the act and saying to oneself, There IS no obstacle to realization of enlightenment, physical or otherwise. Every spiritual teacher worth their salt in history has told me that I am already enlightened, so why not believe it, and drop this crutch of an excuse? In my experience, dropping the excuses can open the doorway to the realization of enlightenment. IMO, of course. Interesting story. Absolutely. On one level, Just Another Story. However, there are really *two* stories above. If one keeps telling oneself the first story, over and over and over, one is telling oneself that one is NOT enlightened, that there is something that is PREVENTING enlightenment, and that one is basically a VICTIM of this something that is preventing enlightenment. If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Interesting story. Absolutely. On one level, Just Another Story. However, there are really *two* stories above. If one keeps telling oneself the first story, over and over and over, one is telling oneself that one is NOT enlightened, that there is something that is PREVENTING enlightenment, and that one is basically a VICTIM of this something that is preventing enlightenment. If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) And yet, both are stilljust stories. You're implying, for what its worth, that on the level ofenlightenment, one story is better than another... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
On Aug 12, 2005, at 2:54 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 10:16 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Not if what the 'teachersez' is a spontaneous upadesha aimed directly at what you are experiencing. These are intimate matters and if truly compassionate they will hit their mark. Agreed. That's a different situation. And rare in the West as far as I can tell. Relatively speaking (in comparison to large meditation movements), oh yeah. Although having said that, there are many mahasiddhas and enlightened beings who only met their teacher once or a couple of times in their entire lifetime. Once there's been an authentic pointing out instruction (of the primordial state) and there is a connection given to the lineage of masters, that's all one may need. So that never happens for someone who learns TM? Unless TM has radically been retooled, no. Of course there will always be those who believe TM can do or be *anything*, it's a mantra yoga, it's Sri Vidya, it's the Shankaracharya trad., it's a dessert topping AND a floor polish; it slices, it dices... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. The subject was human consciousness. The original Consciousness gives rise to matter, and matter gives rise to the physical nervous system, which gives rise to consciousness in humans. You can't have human consciousness without human form. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
Before Kai thinks Maharishi possessed him he needs to go to a Gospel Church. - Original Message - From: Cliff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:37 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature One delusional "true believer" makes you suicidal, Llundrub? Youmust often go into that state, in that case.As for digging in fingernails - depends on your likes and dislikes...--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Did you ever have a girlfriend that knew that if she dug her nails in your ass as you were about to cum it would totally ruin the experience for you? I read this and I just want to commit suicide. I give up on this planet. - Original Message - From: kjdruhl To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM and Christianity: PBS feature Dear friends, let me just answer to some of your points: On the issue of Christ being the only way: BIG SNIP (thank God, or Jesus, or whoever is the deva of SNIPs) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature
Leave the poor guy alone. Christians are dualists. It's not his decision to make. They live in a belief system where Satan, not God, rules the world. This is why he was attracted to his version of Christianity. Instead of finding his contorted facial tics within his own nature and accepting them as part of himself, his ego found it more healing to think that it was satan that did it. It gives one more of a sense of control. Moreover, one can focus on being primarily positive and at the same time damn all those things considered sinful. Instead of having all things within ones own self. If you suggest that to Christians then they will freak. It's like pulling the carpet out from under them. So leave the poor guy alone. Don't poke him. Have some compassion. - Original Message - From: Rick Archer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Christianity: PBS feature Perhaps Kai can address this. I often wonder how Christians reconcile thebelief that God is omnipresent with the belief that humans are essentiallysinful or that they can't realize their essential oneness with Him, or thatsuch oneness doesn't exist. If God is really everywhere, nothing is closeror more intimate than He is. He is our very core, so how can sin be ourcore? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
Sad, but true? Hahahahhathat's fucked up Cliff. - Original Message - From: Cliff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter Maybe pundit labor will be offered as collateral? An indenturedservant type of thing... You know - collect water from your well, beatyour clothes on the river rocks, collect your cow dung for yourevening cooking fire... :-)That labor in India is worth around $1 per day, so 600,000,000,000days equals 1.644 billion pundit-years of labor. Which is 1,000pundits working for 1.644 million years. Blink of an eye, from acosmic point of view. Barely into Sat Yuga.--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/11/05 5:35 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Reminds me of something I heard Benny Feldman say on the KHOE radio station here. He was pitching some sort of world peace bonds, and saying that they were a safe investment because they were backed by the Raam. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
But if one is to be a slave, it's best to be a slave to love. Oh cosmic divine grace of Maharishi. Humng? - Original Message - From: Cliff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter Maybe pundit labor will be offered as collateral? An indenturedservant type of thing... You know - collect water from your well, beatyour clothes on the river rocks, collect your cow dung for yourevening cooking fire... :-)That labor in India is worth around $1 per day, so 600,000,000,000days equals 1.644 billion pundit-years of labor. Which is 1,000pundits working for 1.644 million years. Blink of an eye, from acosmic point of To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. The subject was human consciousness. The original Consciousness gives rise to matter, and matter gives rise to the physical nervous system, which gives rise to consciousness in humans. You can't have human consciousness without human form. You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --I heard that Maharishi stopped coming to the United States, because he felt it had become too dangerous here, and he didn't want to be sacrificed in that way.(as he has done the martyer thing in a past time, been there, done that); In those days, the Pope had been shot, as well as Reagan.. and the mood of the country had changed. He just felt that the U.S. had become too violent and fundementalist, and dangerous, which is quite true. Absolutely not! He stopped coming to the US because of the lawsuits. He's in Holland because of financial troubles in India. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:54 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: In all likelyhood, the real reason that Maharishi stopped comming to the US was the number of lawsuits against him, and the probability that he would be required to testify in court. Not some 'cosmic' or divine thing. What type of lawsuits? There were the ones about the siddhi's misrepresentations and at least a couple of others that I can't remember the details of When was the NJ school case? Don't forget the one about the badger and the clown shoes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Precisely zero, I believe is Peter's point. Com'n...certainly we can assign SOME sort of discount factor to those bonds, no? 50%? 10%? Even 1%? Well, maybe you've got a point. At 1%, they'd be worth $6,000,000,000 and I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anyone paying even that much. Assuming the colatteral for the bonds would be the worth of the TMO and assuming that to be about (and this is a complete guess) $1 billion, then the discount factor for the bonds would be about 0.175%. Someone's got to crunch some numbers for the TMO to help them realize that their bonds would probably be rated at less than the worth of the paper they're written on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/11/05 5:35 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Reminds me of something I heard Benny Feldman say on the KHOE radio station here. He was pitching some sort of world peace bonds, and saying that they were a safe investment because they were backed by the Raam. That's hilarious! The TMO couldn't even issue junk bonds because their financial rating would be so low...low? It's not even on the chart! So...TM bonds with a face value of $600,000,000,000 would yield how much on the open market? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Absolutely not! He stopped coming to the US because of the lawsuits. He's in Holland because of financial troubles in India. And at least one the reasons the TMO relocated from Switzerland was that the authorities began to investigate the possibility of taxing TMO income around the time in 1980's when they began to advertise TMO services (for money) in the one page ads in NY Times and other newspapers. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --I heard that Maharishi stopped coming to the United States, because he felt it had become too dangerous here, and he didn't want to be sacrificed in that way.(as he has done the martyer thing in a past time, been there, done that); In those days, the Pope had been shot, as well as Reagan.. and the mood of the country had changed. He just felt that the U.S. had become too violent and fundementalist, and dangerous, which is quite true. Absolutely not! He stopped coming to the US because of the lawsuits. He's in Holland because of financial troubles in India. And he stopped coming to Norway also - and many other countries. Ingegerd - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 11, 2005, at 1:54 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: In all likelyhood, the real reason that Maharishi stopped comming to the US was the number of lawsuits against him, and the probability that he would be required to testify in court. Not some 'cosmic' or divine thing. What type of lawsuits? There were the ones about the siddhi's misrepresentations and at least a couple of others that I can't remember the details of When was the NJ school case? Don't forget the one about the badger and the clown shoes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: And on the other hand, he's telling them that they cannot trust their experience that they are not enlightened and ought instead to accept the authorities' assertion that they are already enlightened. Tom T writes: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. snore The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. So is the experience of ignorance. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. I repeat last week's statement: Stress is an excuse. Did you think you were responding to a post that was talking about stress? Insomuch as stress refers to anything that prevents one from being enlightened spontaneously once their body reaches full maturity, just about ALL the enlightened-oriented discussions in this forum have some reference to stress. This wasn't about what prevents one from being enlightened but rather what ignorance feels like in the body. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know you guys would really like to see some kind of repressed romance in Barry's and my relationship, but that would be BEEG mistake. As Barry himself is fond of saying, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It wouldn't take much to get me going about what it really is I dislike so much in Barry, so if you don't want to hear about it, I'd suggest you change the subject. If you're really interested, there's plenty to read to that effect on alt.m.t. One little tiny hint: It has to do with authenticity. Judy I don't think that anyone doubts that you and Barry don't get along. It's just fun to speculate about what is going on behind the story, so to speak... Yes, I believe that's exactly what I was talking about above. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
Knock knock knock, two guys in suits -Hellow there neighbor. Have you heard the message of our savior? -Jesus?- -No... (frowns...crinkled foreheads)Maharishi. Jesus was the savior of the Piscean age. But for the age of Aquarius Maharishi is the savior. Which rock hath thou hidden under?- -But I don't believe in Maharishi.- -That's no problem. You don't have to believe in Maharishi or even have faith. His techniques for uniting with the Unified Field don't require belief. All you really need to be one with God is a proper vastu home, which we are offering ready made and which can be delivered and set up within mere days.- -But I have someone already taking care of my field and I love my house.- (Frowns...quizzical faces...the two exchange glances.) But neighbor, certainly you understand that our savior doesn't want you to live in hell any longer. You must move from the hut into the palace. -I don't live in a hut.- -But your home has a southern door.- -I don't get it.- -So you're not interested in vastu perfect lifestyle?- -I guess not. I don't believe in Maharishi.- -You don't need to believe in Maharishi, his techniques for mental and physical health are scientifically documented. We have huge books full of research. Unfortunately, they are so huge that we cannot carry them with us.OK. Well can we interest you in Amrit Kalash, the nectar of immortality?- -That sounds better, how much is it?- -Fifty dollars a month, 100 if you get both types, and you get a discount if you buy both at once and enable direct draw from your bank account.- -Oh, that sounds good. How long will I live again if I take both?- -For your whole life and longer, as long as you keep taking them.- -Hmmm. What else do you have?- -Well, you really shouldn't start your day without transcending using the TM technique.- -How much is that?- -It's only 3,000 dollars and you can do it the rest of your life and even get check ups for free, or for the first 100,000 miles. Whichever comes first" -I don't really want any. I have things to do, can you leave now?- -We shallleave Neighbor, but do you want to wallow in ignorance even another day? It's said in the SOBAAOL 6:11 that if you cannot transcend then you shall be forever caught up in the three gunas. Surely you don't want that?- -Three gunas?- - Original Message - From: Peter To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Precisely zero, I believe is Peter's point. Com'n...certainly we can assign SOME sort of discount factor to those bonds, no? 50%? 10%? Even 1%? Well, maybe you've got a point. At 1%, they'd be worth $6,000,000,000 and I'd be hard-pressed to imagine anyone paying even that much. Assuming the colatteral for the bonds would be the worth of the TMO and assuming that to be about (and this is a complete guess) $1 billion, then the discount factor for the bonds would be about 0.175%.Someone's got to crunch some numbers for the TMO tohelp them realize that their bonds would probably berated at less than the worth of the paper they'rewritten on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/11/05 5:35 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Reminds me of something I heard Benny Feldman say on the KHOE radio station here. He was pitching some sort of world peace bonds, and saying that they were a safe investment because they were backed by the Raam.That's hilarious! The TMO couldn't even issue junkbonds because their financial rating would be solow...low? It's not even on the chart! So...TM bonds with a face value of $600,000,000,000 would yield howmuch on the open market? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home pagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Interesting story. Absolutely. On one level, Just Another Story. However, there are really *two* stories above. If one keeps telling oneself the first story, over and over and over, one is telling oneself that one is NOT enlightened, that there is something that is PREVENTING enlightenment, and that one is basically a VICTIM of this something that is preventing enlightenment. If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) And yet, both are stilljust stories. You're implying, for what its worth, that on the level ofenlightenment, one story is better than another... No, that is how you're *hearing* it, when I was pretty explicit that I believe the contrary, that it's a matter of predilection and preference. For some, one story may be better than another. Whatever floats yer boat. For me, right now, I prefer the always-already-enlightened-and-there- ain't-nothing-the-relative-can-do-about-it story. Your mileage may vary. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (And in this case, if he had been paying attention, he would know I have indeed experienced it.) Ok. In exactly what spiritual tradition and with exactly which teacher did you experience satsang? And when? And how many times did you sit satsang with this teacher or teachers. We'll wait. My satsang fu is superior to your satsang fu ... Not at all. It was just obvious, from the way Judy has comported herself for ten years, that she really *hadn't* ever experienced satsang first-hand, sitting with a teacher and having a one-on-one conversation with the kind of teacher who doesn't allow the student to tell stories. Obvious. I was trying to get *Judy* to realize this, because she'd just as obviously deluded her- self into thinking she *had* experienced satsang. Allow me to correct the record, *again*. Barry did not define satsang as sitting live with a teacher to start with; rather, he used the term as a description of this forum. When he asked me if I'd experienced satsang, I responded in that context. *Then* he switched to the live definition. And now he's pretending he thinks I was deluded to believe I had experienced satsang, when I was speaking of it *in exactly the way he had been using the term*. The propensity to use this kind of smelly tactic is one of the reasons I dislike Barry so much. Other than the live component, the rest of my electronic-satsang experience was exactly what he suggests: one-on-one interaction with a (presumably enlightened) TM teacher who thought he was not allowing me to tell stories (or to put it another way, who was telling me not to trust my own experience but rather to accept *his* story about what my experience was). I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a wise teacher using skillful means could say something that would help me penetrate the barrier of my current experience and see the deeper reality beyond it; and I suspect that could happen via an electronic forum, or private electronic communication, just as well. But the teacher I actually interacted with seems not to have had the skillful means to hand. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Note that the question was posed to me, and that, as I pointed out, Barry had obviously not understood my response to Tom. Also typical of Barry is that when someone tries to get him to clarify a muddled statement he's made before responding to it, rather than admit he wasn't clear and fix it, he will claim the person is afraid to offer an opinion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reaction formation. They're actually crazy about each other! ;-) Actually, I do kinda admire Judy's intellect. She's often smart and incisive and well-stated. It's just that at the same time, based on ten years of obser- vation, I think that she'd be a much happier person if she used that intellect a little less and just felt things a little more. A discriminating observation... And actually an honest one. I'm convinced that a period of several months spent feeling the resistance that comes up in her when her buttons are pushed would *resolve* that resis- tance and enable her to be far less reactive and *far* more happy. Such a dishonest statement in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: American karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --I heard that Maharishi stopped coming to the United States, because he felt it had become too dangerous here, and he didn't want to be sacrificed in that way.(as he has done the martyer thing in a past time, been there, done that); In those days, the Pope had been shot, as well as Reagan.. and the mood of the country had changed. He just felt that the U.S. had become too violent and fundementalist, and dangerous, which is quite true. Absolutely not! He stopped coming to the US because of the lawsuits. He's in Holland because of financial troubles in India. Not just lawsuits, but also the IRS - Charlie L, who actually knew something about TMO finances, always said that was the main reason he didn't come back to the US. Health is also a reason for leaving India - after his heart attack, MMY was treated in Europe and wanted to stay near good medical care. According to MMY's former personal physician who now lives in DC and is in contact with governors there, MMY has relied exclusively on the best of western medicine to treat his heart disease and diabetes ever since the heart attack-kidney failure episode in India. This is probably part of the mix for why he left India, where it appeared he had planned to stay. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Did you miss the joke? Did you miss that the joke was a way of avoiding the question? :-) Did you miss that Barry's putdown was a way of avoiding dealing with what Lawson said? IMO, it's really the key issue in many ways. Does a person's world view state that the thing that keeps them from realizing enlightenment has a physical basis, and some kind of physical reality, or are the physical symptoms described just that, the inevitable karmic result of resisting enlightenment? Stated differently, which comes first -- does the physical discomfort prevent realization of enlightenment, or does *resisting* the realization of enlight- enment cause the physical discomfort? Neither. The former world view is a way of clinging to excuses. It's not me that is preventing my realization of enlightenment...it's all of these physical feelings of discomfort (often labeled stress). If they weren't present, I'd realize enlightenment. Nor does this have anything to do with my response to Barry. Note that having pretended great interest in how I would respond to his question about my reply to Tom, now that I have clarifying what I said, Barry has failed to follow up. Instead, he's continuing to criticize his *mistaken* interpretation of my response to Tom with Sparaig as if I'd never corrected it. The latter is more like dropping the act and saying to oneself, There IS no obstacle to realization of enlightenment, physical or otherwise. Every spiritual teacher worth their salt in history has told me that I am already enlightened, so why not believe it, and drop this crutch of an excuse? In other words: Don't trust your own experience. Believe what the authorities tell you. In my experience, dropping the excuses can open the doorway to the realization of enlightenment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) For some people, telling themselves the story that everything is under their control is necessary to their psychic survival. Other people have no need of such a story. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. The subject was human consciousness. The original Consciousness gives rise to matter, and matter gives rise to the physical nervous system, which gives rise to consciousness in humans. You can't have human consciousness without human form. You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this conversation is with Tom, and I honestly don't want to get in the way of it, but just as a question, which do you think comes first -- the physical feelings of discomfort, or the resistance to Self? In other words, do you think that some- thing happens on a physiological level and as a result the inclination to seek more and more lessens? Or could it be that one resists the inclination to seek more and more, resists the Self, and the physiological sensations are the result? At what level would you make a distinction? Well, that's two people so far who have been afraid to offer an opinion. :-) Did you miss the joke? Did you miss that the joke was a way of avoiding the question? :-) Did you miss that Barry's putdown was a way of avoiding dealing with what Lawson said? Congratulations. You are finally starting to get satsang. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. The subject was human consciousness. The original Consciousness gives rise to matter, and matter gives rise to the physical nervous system, which gives rise to consciousness in humans. You can't have human consciousness without human form. You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? Well, duh. Have you never astral traveled? Have you no memories of the time spent in the Bardo between death and rebirth? Of course you can have human consciousness without a body. But having a human body definitely helps if you're still interested in sex. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Interesting story. Absolutely. On one level, Just Another Story. However, there are really *two* stories above. If one keeps telling oneself the first story, over and over and over, one is telling oneself that one is NOT enlightened, that there is something that is PREVENTING enlightenment, and that one is basically a VICTIM of this something that is preventing enlightenment. If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) And yet, both are stilljust stories. You're implying, for what its worth, that on the level ofenlightenment, one story is better than another... No, that is how you're *hearing* it, when I was pretty explicit that I believe the contrary, that it's a matter of predilection and preference. Actually (see above) Barry suggested that he preferred the story that enlightenment is under one's control because it was a possibly more productive story. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlightenment? (was Re: 'Jagger)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't... Time to transcend! I don't know if you meant that seriously or not, but damned if ya do, damned if ya don't was Arjuna's dilemma and Time to transcend was Krishna's instruction to him to reconcile the dilemma! MMY has taught me well! The student has become the teacher... To get back to the original subject (sorta) of the thread, that's what satsang is all about. Arjuna was standing there in the chariot whining like a sonofabitch. Oh poor me...damned if I do, damned if I don't...poor, poor pitiful me. He was tell- ing himself stories. Krishna kept him from doing so. He busted each of Arjuna's nice-sounding stories about how lost he was in ignorance and gnarly reality as it came up. Hilarious. Now Barry's casting himself as a latter-day Krishna as a way to avoid dealing with the fact that he's been talking out of both sides of his mouth, advocating on the one hand that one should trust one's experience, and on the other that one should trust the teacher's story of what one's experience really is (telling one or the other story depending on who he's trying to put down at the moment). And in the process, attempting to portray my Damned if you do, damned if you don't remark as a poor me complaint instead of what it actually was, an observation that Barry is having a lot of trouble keeping his stories straight. snip The student sits there in front of the teacher trying desperately to cling to the intellect and trot out reason after reason after reason for why he or she is not enlightened. Speaking of going back to the original subject, it was not why I was not enlightened, but rather what lack of enlightenment felt like in the body. But in that context there was no opportunity for Barry to pretend to be Krishna, alas. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This wasn't about what prevents one from being enlightened but rather what ignorance feels like in the body. I love the way you put ignorance in quotes here, Judy! And wonder what would happen if one ceased to label these specific feelings as ignorance or unpleasant and instead decided to try on the story that they are simply unfamiliar or mislabeled manifestations of God or bliss, while we merely sat with them, and allowed them to breathe (i.e. imagined our nose to be where they are and that they were actually breathing for us), resting easily into them, while being narrowly focussed into whatever portion of our body they happened to be in *this* moment... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip You can't have human consciousness without human form. You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? Well, duh. Have you never astral traveled? It's my understanding that the body is still in existence during astral travel, and that typically one comes back to it following the journey. Have you no memories of the time spent in the Bardo between death and rebirth? If I had, I don't believe I'd think of my consciousness during those times as *human* consciousness. Sparaig, of course, was speaking of the consciousness of a human incarnation. But you knew that. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Here and now boys
That's what they had trained all the parrots to say in Aldous Huxley's Island. It was a pretty neat idea. Anyway, here and now I'm back in Paris but still on vacation, so I went to see an exhibit I'd been reading about that was showing at la Musée Guimet. This is one of the best museums in Paris for Asian Art anyway, but the current exhibit definitely adds some high-tech spice. It's a set of paintings and videos and art instal- lations by a guy named Rodolphe Gombergh. He uses the radiography images that the museum creates when it looks inside its sculptures to get clues about how they were made, and then he turns them into art. Sometimes he creates paintings based on the images, other times he takes the radiography images them- selves and integrates them into video projects. The showpiece of his current exhibition there, when you first walk into the room it's situated in, appears to be an almost psychedelic video of colorful, beneath-the-scenes looks into several of the Buddha sculptures that the museum owns. It's neat just as a video, but it gets neater. When you walk a little closer to the images playing on the big-screen TV, suddenly another set of images appears. Hovering in midair about five feet in front of the screen is a second movie, this one in the form of 3-D holographic images, of the same Buddhas. You can walk right up to them. You can look through the hologram images of the Buddha to see the background images of the Buddha. You can walk up to the Buddha and try to touch him. You reach out and grab and you grab empty air. You get all intellectual on the Buddha's ass and try to walk around him, to see him from another angle, maybe catch a clue that way. Doesn't work. He blinks out of existence the moment you try any of that tricky stuff. Finally, you realize that the only way to truly apprec- iate the foreground Buddha is just to relax and hang out in the optimum viewing spot and and appreciate the foreground Buddha as he dances in front of the background Buddhas dancing in the video. To really get into the piece, you pretty much have to be here and now. It's a really kickin' piece of art. It made me smile, and it made me think positively of FFL, and of all the cool, weirdass conversations that we have here that sometimes provide the same reminder. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Shakerleg
Thought some of you might enjoy this guy. Reminds me of why I love NYC so much. I bought his CD. Good stuff. www.shakerleg.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, authfriend wrote: You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? The word for Unity Consciousness is actually videha-mukti or bodiless liberation. I'm sure an enlightened one could share with us why it has this distinction. Yes, that's a question. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: message from Raja of NY Paul Potter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vedic bonds? I don't think so! No reputable or disreputable financial institution is going to touch anything in the movement. They'll do their due diligence and very quickly conclude that the TMO and MMY are profoundly unstable and an exceedingly high financial risk. Ya never know. In some important respects, the TMO does business pretty much the way that Enron did, and until the bubble burst, Enron was the darling of the investment banks. One of my favorite of Enron's scams (written up in, I think, Fortune) was when they went to invest- ment banks to get capital for a new joint venture company they were planning with Blockbuster Video. It sounded a bit dicey, but with the combination of the Enron name and the Blockbuster name, the banks loaned the new front company billions of dollars in startup money. It turns out that Blockbuster had *never* agreed to be part of the scheme, recognizing it as a scam at first sight. But Enron told the banks that Blockbuster was a solid partner anyway. 2-3 weeks after the money had been transferred to the new startup company, lo and behold! the company had declared bankruptcy and none of the money could be found; the banks lost every penny of their investment That had been Enron's plan all along. Compare and contrast to the TMO's history of projects like Vedaland, the new world's tallest building, etc. Same business model -- get naive people excited enough about a project to invest money in it, have the project fail, keep the money. All I can say is, if this is how being in tune with the Laws Of Nature works, I'll stick to being adharmic. Amen! Raja's and real estate seem to work the best. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This wasn't about what prevents one from being enlightened but rather what ignorance feels like in the body. I love the way you put ignorance in quotes here, Judy! And wonder what would happen if one ceased to label these specific feelings as ignorance or unpleasant and instead decided to try on the story that they are simply unfamiliar or mislabeled manifestations of God or bliss, while we merely sat with them, and allowed them to breathe (i.e. imagined our nose to be where they are and that they were actually breathing for us), resting easily into them, while being narrowly focussed into whatever portion of our body they happened to be in *this* moment... I'm afraid there are limits to my imagination. Seriously, Rory, that kind of stuff just doesn't resonate with me. It feels like the spiritual equivalent of the worst kind of psychobabble. Transcending, I get. It works for me; it's taking me in the right direction. What I described has become less and less compelling, less sticky, over the years. I'm not complaining about my situation, as some would like you to believe (because it provides greater opportunities for them to make putdowns). My complaint, such as it is, has always been about people telling me I can't trust my own experience and should believe what I'm told my experience really is by those whose experience is different. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here and now boys
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Finally, you realize that the only way to truly apprec- iate the foreground Buddha is just to relax and hang out in the optimum viewing spot and and appreciate the foreground Buddha as he dances in front of the background Buddhas dancing in the video. To really get into the piece, you pretty much have to be here and now. You mean, you can't kill the Buddha? You aren't in complete control of your experience of the Buddha? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, authfriend wrote: You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? The word for Unity Consciousness is actually videha-mukti or bodiless liberation. And once consciousness has become bodiless, can it still then be called human consciousness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Here and now boys
That's neat. Thanks for sharing. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Here and now boys That's what they had trained all the parrots tosay in Aldous Huxley's "Island." It was a prettyneat idea. Anyway, here and now I'm back in Paris but still on vacation, so I went to see an exhibit I'd beenreading about that was showing at la Musée Guimet.This is one of the best museums in Paris for Asian Art anyway, but the current exhibit definitely adds some high-tech "spice."It's a set of paintings and videos and art instal-lations by a guy named Rodolphe Gombergh. He uses the radiography images that the museum creates when it "looks inside" its sculptures to get clues about how they were made, and then he turns them into art. Sometimes he creates paintings based on the images, other times he takes the radiography images them-selves and integrates them into video projects. The showpiece of his current exhibition there, when you first walk into the room it's situated in, appears to be an almost psychedelic video of colorful, beneath-the-scenes looks into several of the Buddha sculptures that the museum owns. It's neat just as a video, but it gets neater. When you walk a little closer to the images playing on the big-screen TV, suddenly another set of imagesappears. Hovering in midair about five feet in front of the screen is a second movie, this one in the formof 3-D holographic images, of the same Buddhas. You can walk right up to them. You can look through the hologram images of the Buddha to see the background images of the Buddha. You can walk up to the Buddhaand try to touch him. You reach out and grab and yougrab empty air. You get all intellectual on the Buddha'sass and try to walk around him, to see him from anotherangle, maybe catch a clue that way. Doesn't work. Heblinks out of existence the moment you try any of thattricky stuff.Finally, you realize that the only way to truly apprec-iate the foreground Buddha is just to relax and hangout in the optimum viewing spot and and appreciate theforeground Buddha as he dances in front of the background Buddhas dancing in the video. To really get into the piece, you pretty much have to be here and now.It's a really kickin' piece of art. It made me smile,and it made me think positively of FFL, and of all thecool, weirdass conversations that we have here that sometimes provide the same reminder. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here and now boys
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's neat. Thanks for sharing. I was thinking of you a lot when I was in the museum this morning. You'd just fucking DIG IT, man. Large, wonderful halls full of Himalayan Buddhist Art (my faves), but also a whole museum full of Indian, Southeast Asian, and Japanese art. Simply to die for. But for some reason, this high-tech hologram Buddha piece just really put the cherry on top of the whipped cream. It really rocked. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid there are limits to my imagination. It's simply a matter of attending innocently to the sensations, allowing them to breathe -- a way to unravel our learned-response- story that they are bad or ignorance :-) Seriously, Rory, that kind of stuff just doesn't resonate with me. It feels like the spiritual equivalent of the worst kind of psychobabble. Well, I admit it's harder to describe than it is to practice -- MMY's feeling the body is perhaps a simpler way to describe it; rebirthing is another. Transcending, I get. It works for me; it's taking me in the right direction. What I described has become less and less compelling, less sticky, over the years. Yes, IMO transcending is great, and necessary. It steeps us in the wholeness, safely away from all the troubles. This rebirthing or feeling the body is what I would call the other half of the equation -- learning to incarnate the body *as* transcendence, using our well-trained attention to transform all the apparent troubles or densities into their true nature -- being, or radiant bliss, or love. I'm not complaining about my situation, as some would like you to believe (because it provides greater opportunities for them to make putdowns). My complaint, such as it is, has always been about people telling me I can't trust my own experience and should believe what I'm told my experience really is by those whose experience is different. Understandable. I was only trying to point out that just *underneath* the interpretation of the experience as suffering or ignorance is an easier way to appreciate it as bliss -- a bit like an old TV set, where we had a choice (for example) of looking at and getting involved in the sturm-und-drang of a soap opera, or looking a little closer and seeing that the whole drama was actually just little light-beams zipping across the screen :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
On Aug 12, 2005, at 10:08 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, authfriend wrote: You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? The word for Unity Consciousness is actually videha-mukti or bodiless liberation. And once consciousness has become bodiless, can it still then be called human consciousness? Would depend on how you define human. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 3:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. What happened to the consciousness is primary; matter is secondary spiel? Sounds like a scientific materialist talking. The subject was human consciousness. The original Consciousness gives rise to matter, and matter gives rise to the physical nervous system, which gives rise to consciousness in humans. You can't have human consciousness without human form. You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you saying that waking, dreaming and sleeping are possible without human (or some other)form? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enlighte
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: And on the other hand, he's telling them that they cannot trust their experience that they are not enlightened and ought instead to accept the authorities' assertion that they are already enlightened. Tom T writes: The idea you are not enlightened is not an experience it is an idea. snore The experience of awakening is very real, very visceral. It is profoundly based in the physiology. So is the experience of ignorance. The idea of not being enlightened is a story. Tell me where and how that idea I am not awake is known in the gut of the physiology. Tom That's exactly where it *is* known, of course. I repeat last week's statement: Stress is an excuse. Did you think you were responding to a post that was talking about stress? Insomuch as stress refers to anything that prevents one from being enlightened spontaneously once their body reaches full maturity, just about ALL the enlightened-oriented discussions in this forum have some reference to stress. This wasn't about what prevents one from being enlightened but rather what ignorance feels like in the body. I would think that that still involves a peripheral discussion of stress using MMY's definition. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know you guys would really like to see some kind of repressed romance in Barry's and my relationship, but that would be BEEG mistake. As Barry himself is fond of saying, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It wouldn't take much to get me going about what it really is I dislike so much in Barry, so if you don't want to hear about it, I'd suggest you change the subject. If you're really interested, there's plenty to read to that effect on alt.m.t. One little tiny hint: It has to do with authenticity. Judy I don't think that anyone doubts that you and Barry don't get along. It's just fun to speculate about what is going on behind the story, so to speak... Yes, I believe that's exactly what I was talking about above. But one doesn't need to believe there is something going on to make jokes about it... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is trusting oneself a prerequisite for enli
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Interesting story. Absolutely. On one level, Just Another Story. However, there are really *two* stories above. If one keeps telling oneself the first story, over and over and over, one is telling oneself that one is NOT enlightened, that there is something that is PREVENTING enlightenment, and that one is basically a VICTIM of this something that is preventing enlightenment. If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? It's all a matter of predilection and prefer- ence, in my opinion. Some people cling to the stories that reinforce that they're not enlightened and that this isn't under their control. Others prefer the stories that say that they already are enlightened and that realizing this is very much under their control. Whatever floats yer boat. :-) And yet, both are stilljust stories. You're implying, for what its worth, that on the level ofenlightenment, one story is better than another... No, that is how you're *hearing* it, when I was pretty explicit that I believe the contrary, that it's a matter of predilection and preference. Thereby contradicting: If one prefers the second story, it may be Just Another Story, but doesn't it seem like a possibly more productive story? For some, one story may be better than another. Whatever floats yer boat. For me, right now, I prefer the always-already-enlightened-and-there- ain't-nothing-the-relative-can-do-about-it story. Your mileage may vary. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, authfriend wrote: You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? The word for Unity Consciousness is actually videha-mukti or bodiless liberation. I'm sure an enlightened one could share with us why it has this distinction. Yes, that's a question. I've pointed out before, though perhaps MMY might disagree, that perhaps the physiology consciousness connection thing breaks with Unity. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Great Dharma read
x-tad-smallerThe book is very carefully researched and clearly explains many Buddhist concepts found within Tantra and Dzogchen. It is also the most thorough discussion of Tibetan Buddhist pilgrimage that I have run across. And the the story of his one pointed quest in incredibly difficult circumstances is fascinating to read. A dharma book that is a page turner is indeed a rare bird./x-tad-smaller The Heart of the World: A Journey to the Last Secret Place x-tad-smallerReview by Jeff Greenwald, San Francisco Chronicle, Nov 23, 2004/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerBy Ian Baker; introduction by the Dalai Lama THE PENGUIN PRESS; 511 PAGES; $27.95 For nearly 2,000 years, the notion of an earthly paradise hidden among the peaks of Asia has captivated the human imagination. In the fourth or fifth century C.E., a Chinese poet named Tao Qian wrote of a peach blossom path that a fisherman follows to a secret tunnel. On the other side of the passage lies a lavish spiritual oasis, the first hint of James Hilton's Shangri-La. attachment: heart-world.jpg Fifteen centuries after Tao Qian, British explorers combed the canyons of southern Tibet for just such a beyul, a hidden land of bliss and nectar that, as described in ancient Buddhist texts, lay in a sacred range called Pemako. Enlivening their search was a geographical oddity. Deep in that remote region of Tibet, the mighty Tsangpo River, which flows onto the Indian subcontinent as the Brahmaputra, churns around a great bend. The river then disappears from sight, lost in an inaccessible canyon flanked by sheer cliffs. This Five Mile Gap had never been explored and was believed to boast the highest waterfall in Asia -- the Hidden Falls of the Brahmaputra. Behind those cascades, Tibetan texts claimed, lay the door to Yangsang, the ultimate hidden land of immortality, reachable only by those with purified hearts and minds. Ian Baker, a Kathmandu-based writer, explorer and Tantric scholar (and a close colleague and confidant during many of my own Himalayan adventures), first learned of beyuls in 1977, while studying Buddhist scroll painting in Nepal. They quickly became an obsession, and in subsequent audiences with high Buddhist lamas, he refined his understanding of how one might reach them. The Dalai Lama, in one of several audiences, assured Baker that it would take more than a good compass. Only after mastering their innermost depths, His Holiness said, could Buddhist practitioners gain entrance to these hidden realms. Beyuls do exist on earth, Baker was assured, but lie beyond the range of our ordinary senses. It's a bit like quantum physics, the Dalai Lama explained, which recognizes parallel dimensions and multiple universes. With a degree of conviction almost unimaginable in this age of attention deficit disorder, Baker began his do-or-die search for Yangsang. Guided by Chatral Rinpoche -- a Gandalf-like lama who had gained some knowledge of Pemako's secrets -- Baker began a series of long, solitary retreats in remote Himalayan caves, subsisting on dried meats and grains. He continued to live and study in Kathmandu, learning the Tibetan language and poring over terma, long-concealed texts that, like weathered treasure maps, provide clues to the whereabouts of the hidden lands. Baker made his first trip into the Tsangpo area in April 1993 as a member -- in body, if not in spirit -- of Rick Fisher's expedition to raft the merciless waters of the gorge. Along with a fellow expedition member named Ken Storm Jr., Baker separated from Fisher's luckless group. The two men (along with local porters and Mr. Gunn, as their plaintive Chinese guide Geng Quanru called himself) spent weeks thrashing through the Pemako jungles, attempting to access the still-hidden corners of the Tsangpo. True to the warnings of sages and explorers, Pemako itself was far from the Promised Land of Tibetan prophecy that British explorer Frank Kingdon Ward had sought in 1924. Even Kingdon Ward, a botanist who loved Pemako, wrote of the perpetual rain, snakes and wild animals, giant stinging nettles and myriads of biting and blood-sucking ticks, hornets, flies and leeches, none of which spared Baker and Storm. But Pemako, according to Buddhist tradition, is more than its rocks, swamps and leeches. It is the earthly representation of a Tibetan goddess named Dorje Pagmo. Each cliff, cave and waterway is part of her body. Between 1993 and 1998, Baker, accompanied sometimes by the cerebral Storm and often by his rakish friend and fellow scholar-explorer Hamid Sardar, would make half a dozen expeditions through her anatomy. A chronicle of their hardships would fill this entire section. Porters abandoned them; Chinese bureaucrats attempted to thwart their plans. Torrential rains, clouds of tiny gnats and voracious leeches drove them to despair (at one point, Sardar wakes up screaming, with a tiger leech affixed to the roof of his mouth). The waterfall they sought
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shambhala Sun article: Two Sciences of Mind
On Aug 12, 2005, at 10:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:26 AM, authfriend wrote: You're confounding consciousness with mind. To completely different things. Are you suggesting one can have human consciousness without a body? The word for Unity Consciousness is actually videha-mukti or bodiless liberation. I'm sure an enlightened one could share with us why it has this distinction. Yes, that's a question. I've pointed out before, though perhaps MMY might disagree, that perhaps the physiology consciousness connection thing breaks with Unity. Why? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Great Dharma read
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The book is very carefully researched and clearly explains many Buddhist concepts found within Tantra and Dzogchen. It is also the most thorough discussion of Tibetan Buddhist pilgrimage that I have run across. And the the story of his one pointed quest in incredibly difficult circumstances is fascinating to read. A dharma book that is a page turner is indeed a rare bird. The Heart of the World: A Journey to the Last Secret Place Review by Jeff Greenwald, San Francisco Chronicle, Nov 23, 2004 By Ian Baker; introduction by the Dalai Lama THE PENGUIN PRESS; 511 PAGES; $27.95 Many thanks. Ordered it immediately from Amazon, because I have his earlier The Dalai Lama's Secret Temple: Tantric Wall Paintings from Tibet, and it's superb. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Great Dharma read
On Aug 12, 2005, at 10:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Many thanks. Ordered it immediately from Amazon, because I have his earlier The Dalai Lama's Secret Temple: Tantric Wall Paintings from Tibet, and it's superb. Yes a favorite of mine as well and probably the most incredible artistic record of human awakening on the planet. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
