[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 

[...]
> Many times a day I will juxtapose two complete opposites in my mind, 
> the intellect will try for a resolution, going deeper and deeper, 
> finally give up, bounce into the transcendent, back out again, and 
> I'll break into a smile or small chuckle at this universal infinite 
> joke...
>

Interesting mental activity...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 14, 2005, at 2:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:
> 
> > It's odd. If Maharishi's so right-wing how come almost everyone
> > connected with him in the West leans so far left? It's a strange  
> > thing.
> 
> It is.
> 
> It's just the paradox of Brahman, so stop worrying. And he just has 
a  
> funny way of showing his compassion. All is well.
> 
> Is there great difference between a Christian fundie school kid 
who  
> quotes the bible, talks of the Big Bang and tells about Jesus and 
a  
> MSAE kid who quotes scientific literature, talks about AGNI and  
> unified field theory to sell you his idea from M.?
> 
> Both are conditioned dogmas. Call it Pavlov's meditator.
>

Thus Speaks One Who Judges From Beyond (R).







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > MMY's personality is very much a product of his
> > > time
> > > > and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
> > > > "cosmic". Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
> > > an
> > > > aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
> > > Hindu
> > > > man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
> > > fist
> > > > for the past 50 years.
> > > 
> > > Boy, I think this is an important point.
> > > 
> > > Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
> > > slightly differently and say, This is *how*
> > > Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
> > > this particular aging, slightly senile,
> > > lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
> > > run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
> > > for the past 50 years?
> > 
> > Yes, better stated your way.
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
> > > *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
> > > either of these two statements.
> > > 
> > > But people tend to look at the *expression*,
> > > find it to be much less than what they think
> > > of as "perfection" in a relative sense, and
> > > on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
> > > Brahman.
> > 
> > Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
> > realized master, good luck! For example in a
> > residential Art of Living course I took about a year
> > ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
> > casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
> > ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
> > wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
> > about the difficulty in walking around and how much
> > time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
> > another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
> > at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
> > serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
> > Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
> > be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
> > 
> Yes. Funny what a process that is- engaging with a guru, and coming 
> to terms with who he or she is, vs who we want them to be.
> 
> *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> Maharishi's physical presence. 
> 
> and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
> when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru Dev 
> (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment 
of 
> gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar 
of 
> resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> 

Hey Paul, I mean Saul.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Even newer file uploaded to FairfieldLife

[TurquoiseB]

Rick,

Can we assume, since these files do not show up in 
the Files section, that this is yet another attempt
by Tom to get FFL kicked off of Yahoo?  If so, it's
an interesting (if mentally disturbed) tactic --
accuse a group of being a porn shop and plant the
"evidence" yourself. I think that the Yahoo admin-
istrators might be interested in this.

Maybe it's time to eliminate the 'anonymousff' ID,
and force people to actually sign their name (even
though it could be a fictitious Yahoo name) to their
posts.

Maybe it's also time for that letter to Yagnas By
Choice...  :-)


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife
> group.
> 
> File : /Humor and Satire/Anonymous/Vacant_Brain.mp3
> Uploaded by : anonymousff
> Description : The Anonymous State of No Mind, No Brain
> 
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/Humor%20and%
20Satire/enormous_\
> ShitforBrains.mp3
> 
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> 
> Regards,
> 
> anonymousff








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > snip
> > > > 
> > > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
> > > > transcending my intellect,  
> > > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to his
> > > > actions. Like a master-
> > > >  disciple relationship only in the transcendent;
> > > > ONLY in the 
> > > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.
> > > 
> > > Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on the
> > > surface at all. It's all sentimentality and ego up
> > > there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of Brahman
> > > that just PULLS you into it and flattens all the
> > > bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva whirling in
> > > absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
> > 
> > And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
> > is a subjective feeling. 
> 
> A polite way of saying "mood making", perhaps? 
> 
> And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of ones own projections
> of how the world (and gurus) should be? I mean if one thinks MMY or
> whoever is "IT", "THE ONE", won't the mind almost automatically 
create
> a sense of that experience when one sees them? Particularly if it 
is a
> rare event / (always a) special occasion?
> 
> Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were around MMY 
constantly
> experience him as "blazing brahman".
> 
> Could the need to experience a teacher as "blazing brahman" justify
> the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at least in part as
> trivial and silly projects of his?

Were they trivial and silly to those involved? DId the projects 
attained the desired goal? How do you know?

> 
> Someone once said that the grandeur of the "described" experience
> around the teacher is inversely proportional to ones proximity.
>

Except that according to Helena Olson, MMY's most favorite person in 
the clique of Americans hanging around the "Master" in 1959 was her 
Mother (Mother-in-law?) who didn't take him serioiusly at all and 
couldn't understand why everyone else did.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-to-
face?
> > 
> > 
> > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > 
> > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
> > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
> > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment of 
> > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar of 
> > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > >
> >
> 
> In his dreams?
>

Somewhere near Damascus, I think...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> All valid observations and insights that you need to
> temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
> validity of another's experience. You can only talk
> about what you experience, not another. 

True, but I think you can draw inferences from your
own experience to other experiences. *Not* to challenge
them for challenge's sake, but to understand that we
all have the ability to *create* our own subjective
experience out of desire for such an experience. If 
I know that about myself and my own experiences, and
become comfortable with it, then I can infer it with
regard to the experiences of others, and be comfort-
able with theirs as well.

> And certainly
> don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
> Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
> Amen. 

I think that my point is that no one will ever "get"
*anybody*.  Maharishi is no different than any other
human being on the planet in that regard.
 
> --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > snip
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Maharishi has evolved into pure paradox,
> > > > > > transcending my intellect,  
> > > > > > and leaving me as the innocent witness to
> > his
> > > > > > actions. Like a master-
> > > > > >  disciple relationship only in the
> > transcendent;
> > > > > > ONLY in the 
> > > > > > transcendent. Pure Paradox.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Absolutely. You got it! Nothing of value on
> > the
> > > > > surface at all. It's all sentimentality and
> > ego up
> > > > > there, but deep in the heart is that pulse of
> > Brahman
> > > > > that just PULLS you into it and flattens all
> > the
> > > > > bullshit of the personality. Pure Shiva
> > whirling in
> > > > > absolute stillness destroying all boundaries. 
> > > > 
> > > > And yet I suspect you'd have to admit that this
> > > > is a subjective feeling. 
> > > 
> > > A polite way of saying "mood making", perhaps? 
> > > 
> > > And/ or the inner consolidation/condensation of
> > ones own 
> > > projections of how the world (and gurus) should
> > be? I mean 
> > > if one thinks MMY or whoever is "IT", "THE ONE",
> > won't the 
> > > mind almost automatically create a sense of that
> > experience 
> > > when one sees them? Particularly if it is a
> > > rare event / (always a) special occasion?
> > 
> > Absolutely. The rarer the event is, the more likely
> > it is that the expected experience will occur.
> >  
> > > Did the skinboys and inner circle types who were
> > around MMY 
> > > constantly experience him as "blazing brahman".
> > 
> > Absolutely not. That's why most of them left. Each
> > of us is free to decide whether they were right in 
> > their decision to leave or not.
> > 
> > > Could the need to experience a teacher as "blazing
> > brahman" justify
> > > the umpteen years poured into what now apear, at
> > least in part as
> > > trivial and silly projects of his?
> > 
> > I think so. There is a strong tendency in all humans
> > to justify what one has dedicated years to. This
> > tendency
> > often keeps people paying lip service to what they
> > have
> > dedicated years to *years* past the time when they
> > no
> > longer feel it deserves their dedication. Most of
> > the
> > people I've ever met who have walked away from a
> > strong
> > involvement with a spiritual tradition have said
> > that
> > they did so several years later than they should
> > have.
> > The realization that they no longer "fit" predated 
> > their ability to accept or act on that realization.
> > 
> > > Someone once said that the grandeur of the
> > "described" experience
> > > around the teacher is inversely proportional to
> > ones proximity.
> > 
> > There *is* a proximity factor at work here. The aura
> > 
> > of a teacher is usually stronger in his/her close
> > proximity than it is far away. That is, until and
> > unless one develops an inner connection with the 
> > teacher that transcends time and space. At that
> > point, distance no longer matters.
> > 
> > But there are a myriad of energies that swirl around
> > a strong spiritual teacher. In my opinion, some of
> > these energies have to do with enlightenment, with
> > eternity itself. Other of the energies have to do 
> > with the finite teacher and his or her good points,
> > and his or her lingering samskaras. One of the
> > things
> > that tends to happen when one is in close proximity
> > to a strong teacher is that one is bombarded by both
> > types of energies, and can have a hard time figuring
> > out which is which. Thus people sometimes begin to 
> > mistake the strong energy of the lingering samsk

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > All valid observations and insights that you need to
> > temper your own experience with,
> 
> Actually all of the questions I wrote: the inner
> consolidation/condensation of ones own  projections of how the 
> world
> (and gurus) should be; could the need to experience a teacher as
> "blazing brahman" justify the umpteen years poured into the trivial
> etc., are prompted from re"viewing", questioning and speculating 
> about
> my own experiences with saints. 
> 
> > not deconstruct the
> > validity of another's experience. 
> 
> Who said anything about any specific other's experience? It was a
> serious of questions about "the general" drawn from observation and
> speculation of my own experiences, "the specific"

Exactly. And that was exactly the spirit in which I 
replied to the questions. The issue is not whether
a specific experience is to be trusted as "valid" in
any kind of objective sense, but whether *any* exper-
ience can be trusted in any kind of objective sense.

I have long been comfortable with the possibility
that my subjective experiences in the realm of 
enlightenment might be illusory, as illusory as any
other experience. And yet I trust them completely,
because many of these experiences were more "real"
than any other experience in my life.

That said, I ask no one else in the universe to 
believe in their reality. They are my experiences 
and mine alone. I just use them as a springboard 
from which to ponder the nature of subjective 
experience itself, as I think anon was doing here.

In other words, I don't think there is any need to
get all protective of one's subjective experience.
That's called attachment. The experiences were what
they were, or were not. Nothing *anyone* else has
to say about them is relevant.

> > You can only talk
> > about what you experience, not another. 
> 
> OK I will try to keep that in mind when such circumstances arise. I
> assume you will also.
> 
> > And certainly
> > don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
> > Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
> > Amen. 
> 
> Aren't you now guilty of what you just preached not to do? It 
appears
> valid for you to conclude that your mind is never going to get 
him. 
> But it seems baseless for you to conclude that another mind, much 
less
> all minds, are incapbable of getting him, or of anything for that
> matter. Isn't "all possibilities" part of the credo of this group?
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Before you desparaige someone, check you got the right person. The 
author of the following is Jim Flanegan not me!

> > Yes. Funny what a process that is- engaging with a guru, and 
coming 
> > to terms with who he or she is, vs who we want them to be.
> > 
> > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > 
> > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my expectations 
> > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
> > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The embodiment 
> of 
> > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute pillar 
> of 
> > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > 
> 
> Hey Paul, I mean Saul.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Before you desparaige someone, check you got the right person. The 
author of the following is Jim Flanegan not me!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-
> face?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be 
in 
> > > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > > 
> > > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
> expectations 
> > > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka 
Guru 
> Dev 
> > > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
> embodiment of 
> > > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
> pillar of 
> > > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > In his dreams?
> >
> 
> Somewhere near Damascus, I think...
>








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Before you desparaige someone, check you got the right person. 

Nonsense...you've *always* got the "right person."

"Everything you do, you do to yourself."
- some scripture or another

:-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Interesting to see how casually 'sparaig' disparagues another without 
bothering to check his facts. I have experienced this clumsiness 
before when he misquoted from a book I wrote which he admitted he had 
never read. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati face-
to-
> face?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be 
in 
> > > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > > 
> > > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
> expectations 
> > > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka 
Guru 
> Dev 
> > > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
> embodiment of 
> > > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
> pillar of 
> > > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > In his dreams?
> >
> 
> Somewhere near Damascus, I think...
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Thank you Turq, I seem to remember a news report about one of ZZTOP 
shooting himself in the foot, literally. Maybe the scripture you quote 
is by Billy Gibbon.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Before you desparaige someone, check you got the right person. 
> 
> Nonsense...you've *always* got the "right person."
> 
> "Everything you do, you do to yourself."
> - some scripture or another
> 
> :-)
>






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[FairfieldLife] question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[at_man_and_brahman]

My question is at the bottom

In Paul Mason's book, he writes:

Rumours have also circulated about 
another aspect of his 'private' life, 
about the presence of members of 
the family holding posts in his various 
organisations. The following report is 
said to have been carried by 
The Illustrated Weekly of India :

Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
 J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
of accounts and administration. 
The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
is not given much importance in the 
family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
early in life forsaken hearth and home 
after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother

The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
through the benevolence of his uncle 
[the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
extends to more distant relatives as well. 
Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
at NOIDA


and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:

posted on another list:

Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
alive and kicking. He was recently seen
this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
broadcast from the globalcountry of World
peace. He told a friend privately that there 
is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.

>From an inspirational point of view, 
we can guess at certain things about
Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
more and more familiar based on our
own enlightenment.
___

Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
controversial Raju clinic?





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[FairfieldLife] COB and F-land?

[cardemaister]

Conan O'Brien must have lived in (Sweden-)Finland in
some previous lifetime. Otherwise his "obsession" with
Finland is unconceivable! 
(Finland was a part of Sweden for several hundred years
up to 1809.)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[Premanand Paul Mason]

'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints life' ??
What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking about the 
lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so many so-
called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
But there might be other reasons for not talking about someone's past.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My question is at the bottom
> 
> In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> 
> Rumours have also circulated about 
> another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> about the presence of members of 
> the family holding posts in his various 
> organisations. The following report is 
> said to have been carried by 
> The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> 
> Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
>  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> of accounts and administration. 
> The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> is not given much importance in the 
> family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> 
> The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> through the benevolence of his uncle 
> [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> at NOIDA
> 
> 
> and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> 
> posted on another list:
> 
> Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> 
> From an inspirational point of view, 
> we can guess at certain things about
> Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> more and more familiar based on our
> own enlightenment.
> ___
> 
> Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> controversial Raju clinic?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Interesting to see how casually 'sparaig' disparagues another 
> without bothering to check his facts. I have experienced this 
> clumsiness before when he misquoted from a book I wrote which 
> he admitted he had never read. 

Paul, with all due respect, I think you're being 
overly sensitive. I didn't get the feeling that
sparaig had you in mind with either of these posts
you just replied defensively to. He was just making
what he felt was a clever quip.

The clever quip *was* disparaging, and IMO a reflexive
reaction to yet another something he chooses not to
believe, but it wasn't really about you. If I'm not
mistaken, both the Paul/Saul and Damascus quips are
references to the story of Christ, not PaulPremanand. :-)

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati 
face-
> to-
> > face?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to 
be 
> in 
> > > > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
> > expectations 
> > > > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka 
> Guru 
> > Dev 
> > > > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
> > embodiment of 
> > > > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
> > pillar of 
> > > > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > In his dreams?
> > >
> > 
> > Somewhere near Damascus, I think...
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thank you Turq, I seem to remember a news report about one of 
> ZZTOP shooting himself in the foot, literally. Maybe the 
> scripture you quote is by Billy Gibbon.

He was probably trying to twirl his six-shooter the
same way the ZZTopsters twirl their guitars on stage. :-)

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Before you desparaige someone, check you got the right person. 
> > 
> > Nonsense...you've *always* got the "right person."
> > 
> > "Everything you do, you do to yourself."
> > - some scripture or another
> > 
> > :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> Conan O'Brien must have lived in (Sweden-)Finland in
> some previous lifetime. Otherwise his "obsession" with
> Finland is unconceivable! 
> (Finland was a part of Sweden for several hundred years
> up to 1809.)

And then what? The Swedes came to their senses
and gave the land away to whoever would take it?  :-)

Just joking, really. I once had a wife of Swedish
descent, and she filled me in on many of the 
in-jokes the Swedes have about their Scandinavian
neighbors, and vice-versa. The only one I can 
remember is, "Twenty Swedes ran through the weeds,
chased by one Norwegian."  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> life' ??
> What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking about the 
> lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so many so-
> called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> But there might be other reasons for not talking about someone's 
> past.

Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
morning/night?  :-)

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > My question is at the bottom
> > 
> > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > 
> > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > about the presence of members of 
> > the family holding posts in his various 
> > organisations. The following report is 
> > said to have been carried by 
> > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > 
> > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > of accounts and administration. 
> > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > is not given much importance in the 
> > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > 
> > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > at NOIDA
> > 
> > 
> > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > 
> > posted on another list:
> > 
> > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > 
> > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > we can guess at certain things about
> > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > more and more familiar based on our
> > own enlightenment.
> > ___
> > 
> > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > controversial Raju clinic?
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Happy Christmas in Britain

[Jason Spock]

            Opinion - Leader Page Articles     Celebrating Christmas by other names   Hasan Suroor   In Britain, there is an increasing and misplaced emphasis on multiculturalism in a way that does it more harm than good.        SO, IS it Christmas? Or is it not Christmas? Many bewildered Britons are asking this question as, in a new wave of political correctness, anything that seems like "imposing" a Christian celebration on religious minorities is being replaced by a variety of multicultural euphemisms. Some local councils and government schools are going to absurd lengths to play down the religious aspect of
 Christmas in order — they claim — not to "offend" ethnic communities such as Jews, Hindus, and Muslims.     Nativity plays are out, carol services are off-limits in mixed institutions, Christmas lights are now called "winter" lights, Christmas greetings have been replaced by "season's" greetings, and what used to be Christmas sales in high street stores are being increasingly referred to as "winter" or "season's" sales.     Christmas parties are no longer simply Christmas parties but pretend to celebrate all religious festivals on the year's calendar. The invitation for the London-based Foreign Press Association's Christmas Party this year advised invitees to "read for Christmas" a host of other religious occasions such as Eid, Diwali, and the Jewish festival of Hunukkah     Can it, really, get more politically correct than this? And even as
 I write this a school in North London has provoked controversy by cancelling a nativity play and replacing it with a "seasonal celebration" of all faiths. Critics say they have no objection to children being exposed to other faiths but does it have to be at the cost of their own religion?     "I think it is right that children should be aware of other world faiths, but the culture in this country is Christian as far as I understand it," said a priest reacting to the school's decision.     In a joint letter to a newspaper, Anjum Anwar of the Lancashire Council of Mosques and Chris Chivers of Blackburn Cathedral, voiced their concern over what they described as "inappropriate responses to a pluralistic landscape."     "In just the last few days, the two of us have encountered a senior citizen ... who was understandably upset to have been told that Christmas lights had now to be referred to as `winter' lights, as well as a
 host of Preston's citizens who, with good reason, were irritated by a civic leader's decision that an annual carol concert would not take place this December but be replaced by a multicultural, candlelit `event' in January," they said.     In recent years, such protests around this time of the year have become common. No doubt, often, things are exaggerated and there is a tendency to pick on the most extreme of cases, which are then sought to be portrayed as the norm. But the fact remains that there is an increasing and misplaced emphasis on multiculturalism in a way that does it more harm than good. What is particularly absurd is justifying such "secular" gestures in the name of minority "sensitivities" suggesting, for example, that children from other faiths would be "offended" if they were to be forced to sit through a nativity play; or that a mixed neighbourhood would not like to enjoy Christmas lights. It shows just how far removed Britain's Christian
 liberal elite is from reality. If it were to step out of its ivory tower, it would be surprised to discover the number of non-Christian homes — and these include Hindu and Muslim homes, especially those with small children — where a Christmas tree is almost de rigueur. There are any number of secular non-Christian families who may not care much for their own festivals but happily join in the Christmas festivities.     Any genuine effort to promote secularism or avoid imposing the majority community's religion on others is welcome. But gestures, driven by a skewed sense of political correctness, not only do not help but risk fuelling the right-wing propaganda that the government and its liberal allies are forever "appeasing" the minorities. This is already happening in America where the Christian Right has launched a noisy campaign accusing liberals of declaring a "war on Christmas."     An organisation called the American Family Association
 claims to have got 600,000 people to sign a boycott petition against a major chain store because its advertisements refer to Christmas holidays simply as "Happy Holidays." A number of other leading American stores are also reported to be facing the wrath of Christian conservatives for calling Christmas sales by other names.     According to a report in The Independent, local radio and TV show hosts are talking up the controversy, and there is even a book out with the tell-tale title The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban Sacred Christmas Holiday is Worse Than You Thought.     The paper said that even President Georg

[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[Premanand Paul Mason]

>From what I gather Paul/Saul distorted Jesus's teaching and presented 
the world with the 'religion of suffering' which should rightly be 
called Paulianity.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting to see how casually 'sparaig' disparagues another 
> > without bothering to check his facts. I have experienced this 
> > clumsiness before when he misquoted from a book I wrote which 
> > he admitted he had never read. 
> 
> Paul, with all due respect, I think you're being 
> overly sensitive. I didn't get the feeling that
> sparaig had you in mind with either of these posts
> you just replied defensively to. He was just making
> what he felt was a clever quip.
> 
> The clever quip *was* disparaging, and IMO a reflexive
> reaction to yet another something he chooses not to
> believe, but it wasn't really about you. If I'm not
> mistaken, both the Paul/Saul and Damascus quips are
> references to the story of Christ, not PaulPremanand. :-)
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati 
> face-
> > to-
> > > face?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to 
> be 
> > in 
> > > > > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
> > > expectations 
> > > > > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka 
> > Guru 
> > > Dev 
> > > > > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
> > > embodiment of 
> > > > > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an 
absolute 
> > > pillar of 
> > > > > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > In his dreams?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Somewhere near Damascus, I think...
> > >
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[Premanand Paul Mason]

You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning the 
editing of lifestories! 
Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk about a 
saints life?
Puzzled of UK



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > life' ??
> > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking about 
the 
> > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so many so-
> > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > But there might be other reasons for not talking about someone's 
> > past.
> 
> Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> morning/night?  :-)
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > My question is at the bottom
> > > 
> > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > 
> > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > about the presence of members of 
> > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > said to have been carried by 
> > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > 
> > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > 
> > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > at NOIDA
> > > 
> > > 
> > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > 
> > > posted on another list:
> > > 
> > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > 
> > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > own enlightenment.
> > > ___
> > > 
> > > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > > controversial Raju clinic?
> > >
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Conan O'Brien must have lived in (Sweden-)Finland in
> > some previous lifetime. Otherwise his "obsession" with
> > Finland is unconceivable! 
> > (Finland was a part of Sweden for several hundred years
> > up to 1809.)
> 
> And then what? The Swedes came to their senses
> and gave the land away to whoever would take it?  :-)

Then, after a war, Finland became an autonomic part 
of Russia until the Russian Revolution 1917, during which 
V.I.Lenin gave independence to Finland. 
Oddly enough, nowadays the only active Lenin museum is 
situated in my home town!

http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning the 
> editing of lifestories! 
> Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> about a saints life?
> Puzzled of UK

My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
"But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
know it. 

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > life' ??
> > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking about 
> the 
> > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so many 
so-
> > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
someone's 
> > > past.
> > 
> > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > morning/night?  :-)
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > 
> > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > 
> > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > 
> > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > 
> > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > at NOIDA
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > 
> > > > posted on another list:
> > > > 
> > > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > > 
> > > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > > own enlightenment.
> > > > ___
> > > > 
> > > > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > > > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > > > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > > > controversial Raju clinic?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[Premanand Paul Mason]

Now I understand, stating the obvious is presented by you as 
a 'gratuitous slam'? Has the TMO re-absorbed you?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning the 
> > editing of lifestories! 
> > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > about a saints life?
> > Puzzled of UK
> 
> My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> know it. 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > > life' ??
> > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking 
about 
> > the 
> > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so 
many 
> so-
> > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> someone's 
> > > > past.
> > > 
> > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > 
> > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > 
> > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > 
> > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > > at NOIDA
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > posted on another list:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > > > own enlightenment.
> > > > > ___
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > > > > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > > > > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > > > > controversial Raju clinic?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>







 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Now I understand, stating the obvious is presented by you as 
> a 'gratuitous slam'? Has the TMO re-absorbed you?

Not at all, Paul. I *appreciate* your attempts to
present a more balanced view of Maharishi's life
than is presented by TM True Believers. But every
so often, like today, you slip and allow your 
obvious bias to shine through, and it *weakens*
your efforts, rather than strengthens them. As a 
couple of people here have pointed out recently,
you sometimes come across as searching for "dirt"
rather than searching for something that resembles
a balanced view of all sides of the issues.

As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
many who might benefit from your research to instead
write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
a 'tude. Comprende?

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning 
the 
> > > editing of lifestories! 
> > > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > > about a saints life?
> > > Puzzled of UK
> > 
> > My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> > a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> > "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> > know it. 
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > > > life' ??
> > > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking 
> about 
> > > the 
> > > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so 
> many 
> > so-
> > > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > someone's 
> > > > > past.
> > > > 
> > > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > > > at NOIDA
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > posted on another list:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > > > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > > > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > > > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > > > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > > > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > > > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > > > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > > > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > > > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > > > > own enlightenment.
> > > > > > __

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[Peter]

--- cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Then, after a war, Finland became an autonomic part 
> of Russia until the Russian Revolution 1917, during
> which 
> V.I.Lenin gave independence to Finland. 
> Oddly enough, nowadays the only active Lenin museum
> is 
> situated in my home town!
> 
> http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/

Maybe you guys can take the waxed-up body of Lenin
from the Russians. They want to get rid of him.



> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>
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>
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> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
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> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!' 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[Premanand Paul Mason]

I was totally unaware that my attitude had been discussed recently on 
FFL. Just goes to show! I write a book about the life and teaching of 
a contemporary thinker, and a newsgroup indulges in discussing my 
motives. Barry, read the book, take me to task on the contents, if 
you wish, but don't foist this nonsense about 'searching for dirt' or 
having an attitude, it does not become you at all.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Now I understand, stating the obvious is presented by you as 
> > a 'gratuitous slam'? Has the TMO re-absorbed you?
> 
> Not at all, Paul. I *appreciate* your attempts to
> present a more balanced view of Maharishi's life
> than is presented by TM True Believers. But every
> so often, like today, you slip and allow your 
> obvious bias to shine through, and it *weakens*
> your efforts, rather than strengthens them. As a 
> couple of people here have pointed out recently,
> you sometimes come across as searching for "dirt"
> rather than searching for something that resembles
> a balanced view of all sides of the issues.
> 
> As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
> pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
> that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
> many who might benefit from your research to instead
> write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
> a 'tude. Comprende?
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning 
> the 
> > > > editing of lifestories! 
> > > > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > > > about a saints life?
> > > > Puzzled of UK
> > > 
> > > My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> > > a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> > > "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> > > know it. 
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul 
Mason" 
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > > > > life' ??
> > > > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking 
> > about 
> > > > the 
> > > > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so 
> > many 
> > > so-
> > > > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > someone's 
> > > > > > past.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > > > > at NOIDA
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > poste

[FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Then, after a war, Finland became an autonomic part 
> > of Russia until the Russian Revolution 1917, during
> > which 
> > V.I.Lenin gave independence to Finland. 
> > Oddly enough, nowadays the only active Lenin museum
> > is 
> > situated in my home town!
> > 
> > http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/
> 
> Maybe you guys can take the waxed-up body of Lenin
> from the Russians. They want to get rid of him.

Waxed up?  I know a surfer who might take him.
His board got stolen recently.  







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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I was totally unaware that my attitude had been discussed recently
> on 
> FFL. Just goes to show! I write a book about the life and teaching 
> of 
> a contemporary thinker, and a newsgroup indulges in discussing my 
> motives. Barry, read the book, take me to task on the contents, if 
> you wish, but don't foist this nonsense about 'searching for dirt' 
> or having an attitude, it does not become you at all.

Nor does this unjustified sensitivity and paranoia
become you. First you reply angrily to two posts
that WEREN'T EVEN ABOUT YOU, and now you're all
pissed off because I call you on inserting a slam
where one was not needed. I'm assuming you're just 
having a bad ego day, and will leave it at that.


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Now I understand, stating the obvious is presented by you as 
> > > a 'gratuitous slam'? Has the TMO re-absorbed you?
> > 
> > Not at all, Paul. I *appreciate* your attempts to
> > present a more balanced view of Maharishi's life
> > than is presented by TM True Believers. But every
> > so often, like today, you slip and allow your 
> > obvious bias to shine through, and it *weakens*
> > your efforts, rather than strengthens them. As a 
> > couple of people here have pointed out recently,
> > you sometimes come across as searching for "dirt"
> > rather than searching for something that resembles
> > a balanced view of all sides of the issues.
> > 
> > As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
> > pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
> > that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
> > many who might benefit from your research to instead
> > write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
> > a 'tude. Comprende?
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday 
condemning 
> > the 
> > > > > editing of lifestories! 
> > > > > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to 
talk 
> > > > > about a saints life?
> > > > > Puzzled of UK
> > > > 
> > > > My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> > > > a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> > > > "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > > someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> > > > know it. 
> > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul 
> Mason" 
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
saints 
> > > > > > > life' ??
> > > > > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous 
statement?
> > > > > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of 
talking 
> > > about 
> > > > > the 
> > > > > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of 
so 
> > > many 
> > > > so-
> > > > > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > > someone's 
> > > > > > > past.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > > > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister In

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[Peter]

You seem to approach Realization as some sort of
intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy
and coherence like it was some sort of waking state
intellectual product. You're not going to find that.
While there is comminality to realization, there is
also "difference". The "difference" is more the result
of different minds/culture expressing that which is
outside of expression. Also, why the hostility? It
seems that people who talk about enlightenment
experiences that don't meet your conceptual definition
get you angry in some way. Is that right?

--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> The self-proclamation part has always struck me as
> odd. Linked to the
> absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if
> there is some
> insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there
> are strong mandates
> of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And
> what one can
> understand and what one cannot. 
> 
> And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a
> seemingly endless flow of
> liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is
> dumb), constant
> wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening,
> loss of
> possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and
> things), compassion that
> seems to be rooted at the core of everything, a
> limitless sense of
> wonder -- and irony, a not so worried view of
> "pending disasters", a
> not so impressed view of pending sucesses, then
> wonderful. Why not
> speak of these things. Why speak in nebulous labels
> of "liberation, 
> awakening, and enlightenment"? Whose liberation,
> whose awakening? So
> many paths, so many traditions make so many
> distinctions. Lots of
> trail markers on this hike. Why be so anxious to
> claim the pinnacle. 
> Why not just claim, if claims are needed,  "I am
> hiking, and its fun".
> (oops, sorry "the body is hiking" 
> 
> 
> (And I mean experience not in the sense of "I see
> the flower" and this
> "I experience it", but in the sense of
> "Consciousness Groking", 
> 
> And the process of self-proclamation, what a
> concept. Someone reads a
> book and says "I GET that! I must be enlightened." 
> "hm, they say here
> no-self is enlightenment. I have searched high and
> low and cannot find
> an ego. Ergo I am enlightened."  Yet so many
> self-proclaimed
> enlightened, even  here on this list, but more so
> else where, directly
> contradict each other. 
> 
> Sure the indescribable can be approached from
> different angles. But
> its odd when A says "There is absolutely no ego" and
> B says, "of
> course there is an ego, you are insane to think
> there isn't", and C
> says "well, there is an ego, but it finds its proper
> role as servant,
> not master" and D says "You are a fool to try to
> understand this
> paradox of ego, it is Brahman, it is confusion" and
> E says "well, if
> you take this conic section and slice it, its clear
> the ego is an
> elipse with 16 dancing golden elves who are really
> the ashwins." 
> Perhaps they each went to a different Satsang, or
> read a different book.
> 
> Its odd too people claim labels (enlightenemnt,
> awakening,
> liberation", and not specific "attributes" of such.
> Its as if the
> label is a smoke screen for "all attributes". But
> few are willng to
> proclaim specific attributes and discuss in detail.
> Which if the
> purpose is helping others, to promote insight and
> understanding, could
> serve a role. But usually its "la de da liberation".
> 
> 
> The socratic method always struck me as useful. No
> proclamations.
> Simply questions crafted to allow others to get IT
> in their own way,
> by their own means. Not that such should be a
> universal mandate, but
> it does seem to be a humble path to sharing
> knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[Peter]

--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Then, after a war, Finland became an autonomic
> part 
> > > of Russia until the Russian Revolution 1917,
> during
> > > which 
> > > V.I.Lenin gave independence to Finland. 
> > > Oddly enough, nowadays the only active Lenin
> museum
> > > is 
> > > situated in my home town!
> > > 
> > > http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/
> > 
> > Maybe you guys can take the waxed-up body of Lenin
> > from the Russians. They want to get rid of him.
> 
> Waxed up?  I know a surfer who might take him.
> His board got stolen recently.

He's preserved in wax. Once in a while they have a
mold problem with him!


 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> You seem to approach Realization as some sort of
> intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy
> and coherence like it was some sort of waking state
> intellectual product. 

Why the surprise? That is exactly how it has been
presented, by the TM organization and other spiritual
traditions, for centuries. 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[TurquoiseB]

> > > > Oddly enough, nowadays the only active Lenin
> > > > museum is situated in my home town!
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/
> > > 
> > > Maybe you guys can take the waxed-up body of Lenin
> > > from the Russians. They want to get rid of him.
> > 
> > Waxed up?  I know a surfer who might take him.
> > His board got stolen recently.
> 
> He's preserved in wax. Once in a while they have a
> mold problem with him!

I don't think my surfer friend would mind; he
has a mold problem of his own. :-)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

[Vaj]

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:27 PM, qntmpkt wrote:---But there's no rule written in stone that Enlightenened people may not talk about anything.  HWL Poonja talked about it quite a bit, including his experiences with Ramana Maharshi. He also has some interesting comments on Maharishi.  His excellent bio can be read in the form of 3 volumes by David Godman. Of course there is not, people do what they want. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[Vaj]

On Dec 15, 2005, at 12:53 AM, anonymousff wrote:The self-proclamation part has always struck me as odd. Linked to the absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if there is some insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there are strong mandates of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And what one can understand and what one cannot.   And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a seemingly endless flow of liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is dumb), constant wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening, loss of possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and things), compassion that seems to be rooted at the core of everything, a limitless sense of wonder -- and irony, a not so worried view of "pending disasters", a not so impressed view of pending sucesses, then wonderful. Why not speak of these things.It really depends on the listeners. If there is an intent to facilitate liberation, does talk cook the rice? Why speak in nebulous labels of "liberation,  awakening, and enlightenment"?Such nebulous terms often represent a lack of superknowledge IMO. Then no need for the nebulous.  Whose liberation, whose awakening? So many paths, so many traditions make so many distinctions. Lots of trail markers on this hike. Why be so anxious to claim the pinnacle.  Why not just claim, if claims are needed,  "I am hiking, and its fun". (oops, sorry "the body is hiking" One wonders. Ego? How does one check if what is being expressed is from ego? (And I mean experience not in the sense of "I see the flower" and this "I experience it", but in the sense of "Consciousness Groking",   And the process of self-proclamation, what a concept. Someone reads a book and says "I GET that! I must be enlightened."  "hm, they say here no-self is enlightenment. I have searched high and low and cannot find an ego. Ergo I am enlightened."  Yet so many self-proclaimed enlightened, even  here on this list, but more so else where, directly contradict each other. Hmmm.  Sure the indescribable can be approached from different angles. But its odd when A says "There is absolutely no ego" and B says, "of course there is an ego, you are insane to think there isn't", and C says "well, there is an ego, but it finds its proper role as servant, not master" and D says "You are a fool to try to understand this paradox of ego, it is Brahman, it is confusion" and E says "well, if you take this conic section and slice it, its clear the ego is an elipse with 16 dancing golden elves who are really the ashwins."  Perhaps they each went to a different Satsang, or read a different book.Or was never trained properly so they cannot recognize a false view. Or they've never had there View verified to know if they hold false Views (of reality). Most of these people IME tend to be outside (often deliberately) their alleged traditions. We've been chatting offlist about demonic states. That's certainly another possibility.  Its odd too people claim labels (enlightenemnt, awakening, liberation", and not specific "attributes" of such. Its as if the label is a smoke screen for "all attributes".And hoping others assume that. But few are willng to proclaim specific attributes and discuss in detail. Which if the purpose is helping others, to promote insight and understanding, could serve a role. But usually its "la de da liberation". Uh huh.  The socratic method always struck me as useful. No proclamations. Simply questions crafted to allow others to get IT in their own way, by their own means. Not that such should be a universal mandate, but it does seem to be a humble path to sharing knowledge.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Interesting to see how casually 'sparaig' disparagues another
> without bothering to check his facts. I have experienced this 
> clumsiness before when he misquoted from a book I wrote which he 
> admitted he had never read.

What on earth makes you think he's disparaging *you*?

As I understand him, the reference was to St. Paul 
of the Christian Scriptures (previously known as
Saul) having a vision of the risen Christ at Damascus,
as Jim had a vision of Guru Dev.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it had anything to
do with you.  That the name is the same was coincidental.
I don't believe you've ever said you had a vision of Guru
Dev, have you?

(And as I recalll, he never "misquoted" you, he misstated
something from the book based on what he had heard
elsewhere, and apologized when you pointed this out.)



> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Please, when and where did you meet Brahmananda Saraswati 
face-
> to-
> > face?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be 
> in 
> > > > > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
> > expectations 
> > > > > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka 
> Guru 
> > Dev 
> > > > > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
> > embodiment of 
> > > > > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
> > pillar of 
> > > > > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > In his dreams?
> > >
> > 
> > Somewhere near Damascus, I think...
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning the 
> editing of lifestories! 
> Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk about
> a saints life?
> Puzzled of UK

By "bias," could he have been referring to the smarmy
crack about there being other reasons for not talking
about someone's past?



> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > life' ??
> > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking about 
> the 
> > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so many 
so-
> > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
someone's 
> > > past.
> > 
> > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > morning/night?  :-)
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > 
> > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > 
> > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > 
> > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > 
> > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > at NOIDA
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > 
> > > > posted on another list:
> > > > 
> > > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > > 
> > > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > > own enlightenment.
> > > > ___
> > > > 
> > > > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > > > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > > > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > > > controversial Raju clinic?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[Vaj]

On Dec 15, 2005, at 7:34 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:  You seem to approach Realization as some sort of intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy and coherence like it was some sort of waking state intellectual product.   Why the surprise? That is exactly how it has been presented, by the TM organization and other spiritual traditions, for centuries.  Millennia.Each darshana has it's own internal logic. If knowledge is structured in consciousness then each darshana/View relating to a specific state of consciousness will be unique but appropriately descriptive of that state. It's fashionable, esp. among paths that are incomplete or false paths to suggest otherwise. Shantideva put it nicely when he opined "View determines Fruit." Yum.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning the 
> > editing of lifestories! 
> > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > about a saints life?
> > Puzzled of UK
> 
> My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> know it.

I swear I've been reading and responding to the posts
in order...  These frightening recent concurrences
between me and Barry are purely accidental!  (Except
that we're both *right*, of course.)




 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > > life' ??
> > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking 
about 
> > the 
> > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so 
many 
> so-
> > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> someone's 
> > > > past.
> > > 
> > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > 
> > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > 
> > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > 
> > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > > at NOIDA
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > > posted on another list:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97, 
> > > > > alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> > > > > this past Oct 12th on victory day on the 
> > > > > broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> > > > > peace. He told a friend privately that there 
> > > > > is a tradition in India not to talk about a 
> > > > > saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > From an inspirational point of view, 
> > > > > we can guess at certain things about
> > > > > Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes 
> > > > > more and more familiar based on our
> > > > > own enlightenment.
> > > > > ___
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
> > > > > one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And, 
> > > > > are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
> > > > > controversial Raju clinic?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Now I understand, stating the obvious is presented by you as 
> > a 'gratuitous slam'? Has the TMO re-absorbed you?
> 
> Not at all, Paul. I *appreciate* your attempts to
> present a more balanced view of Maharishi's life
> than is presented by TM True Believers. But every
> so often, like today, you slip and allow your 
> obvious bias to shine through, and it *weakens*
> your efforts, rather than strengthens them. As a 
> couple of people here have pointed out recently,
> you sometimes come across as searching for "dirt"
> rather than searching for something that resembles
> a balanced view of all sides of the issues.
> 
> As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
> pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
> that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
> many who might benefit from your research to instead
> write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
> a 'tude. Comprende?

Now I'm a "more balanced, less TB individual"??

The millennium has come, folks.

(Either that, or Barry has just had his own Damascus
experience and seen the light.)

Observation about Paul "Premanand" Mason:

We've just seen him rather grossly misinterpret
several comments (and fail to take responsibility
for the misinterpretations when they were pointed
out to him).

What might this say about the accuracy of his
remarks concerning MMY, both in his book and in his
postings?



> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning 
> the 
> > > > editing of lifestories! 
> > > > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > > > about a saints life?
> > > > Puzzled of UK
> > > 
> > > My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> > > a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> > > "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> > > know it. 
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul 
Mason" 
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'There is a tradition in India not to talk about a saints 
> > > > > > life' ??
> > > > > > What evidence is there for such a preposterous statement?
> > > > > > Actually, it is BECAUSE India has a tradition of talking 
> > about 
> > > > the 
> > > > > > lives of 'saints' that we know so much of the lives of so 
> > many 
> > > so-
> > > > > > called 'saints' from Shankara to Guru Dev.
> > > > > > But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > > someone's 
> > > > > > past.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Your bias is showing again, Paul. Having a tough 
> > > > > morning/night?  :-)
> > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My question is at the bottom
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In Paul Mason's book, he writes:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Rumours have also circulated about 
> > > > > > > another aspect of his 'private' life, 
> > > > > > > about the presence of members of 
> > > > > > > the family holding posts in his various 
> > > > > > > organisations. The following report is 
> > > > > > > said to have been carried by 
> > > > > > > The Illustrated Weekly of India :
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
> > > > > > >  J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and 
> > > > > > > Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge 
> > > > > > > of accounts and administration. 
> > > > > > > The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly, 
> > > > > > > is not given much importance in the 
> > > > > > > family hierarchy, for reasons that date 
> > > > > > > back to the illustrious younger sibling's 
> > > > > > > youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had 
> > > > > > > early in life forsaken hearth and home 
> > > > > > > after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his 
> > > > > > > niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter 
> > > > > > > She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod. 
> > > > > > > While Pramod has settled in West Germany 
> > > > > > > through the benevolence of his uncle 
> > > > > > > [the Maharishi], Praful operates from India, 
> > > > > > > say sources. The Maharishi's munificence 
> > > > > > > extends to more distant relatives as well. 
> > > > > > > Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's 
> > > > > > > paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
> > > > > > > at NOIDA
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > You seem to have changed your tune, only yesterday condemning  
> > > the editing of lifestories! 
> > > Okay, so where is the evidence for any tradition not to talk 
> > > about a saints life?
> > > Puzzled of UK
> > 
> > My comment was not about the non-issue of talking about
> > a saint's life. :-) My comment was about your line,
> > "But there might be other reasons for not talking about 
> > someone's past." That was a gratuituous slam, and you
> > know it.
> 
> I swear I've been reading and responding to the posts
> in order...  These frightening recent concurrences
> between me and Barry are purely accidental!  (Except
> that we're both *right*, of course.)

I'm not. I'm never right about anything. 
Don't you read your own posts?

Even if we seem to agree, I'm sure there
is something wrong with my intent. 

:-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > You seem to approach Realization as some sort of
> > intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy
> > and coherence like it was some sort of waking state
> > intellectual product. 
> 
> Why the surprise? That is exactly how it has been
> presented, by the TM organization and other spiritual
> traditions, for centuries.

Actually I've never encountered a spiritual tradition,
including MMY's teaching, which doesn't insist that
enlightenment is ultimately beyond coherent expression.
Have you?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
> > pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
> > that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
> > many who might benefit from your research to instead
> > write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
> > a 'tude. Comprende?
> 
> Now I'm a "more balanced, less TB individual"??
> 
> The millennium has come, folks.

See, I knew I wasn't right. :-)

The problem seems to be with either my imprecise
grammar or your hopeful reading. Since we know
that you read everything perfectly, it must be
me, so I'll try to correct the grammar.

"As Judy, and *other*, more balanced, less TB
individuals have pointed out..."

:-)
 
> Observation about Paul "Premanand" Mason:
> 
> We've just seen him rather grossly misinterpret
> several comments (and fail to take responsibility
> for the misinterpretations when they were pointed
> out to him).
> 
> What might this say about the accuracy of his
> remarks concerning MMY, both in his book and in his
> postings?

Observation:  that's a pretty classic TB thing
to say, and do.  You're trying to take a lapse
of normal, everyday "writer's ego" and turn it
into a way to discredit Paul as an authority on
Maharishi. That's as gratuitous a slam as the 
one I called him on. Talk about smarmy.

And what's worse is you know it. 










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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > As Judy and more balanced, less TB individuals have
> > > pointed out, sometimes you reveal a 'tude, a 'tude
> > > that I think is regrettable, because it enables 
> > > many who might benefit from your research to instead
> > > write it off as the ravings of just another guy with
> > > a 'tude. Comprende?
> > 
> > Now I'm a "more balanced, less TB individual"??
> > 
> > The millennium has come, folks.
> 
> See, I knew I wasn't right. :-)
> 
> The problem seems to be with either my imprecise
> grammar or your hopeful reading. Since we know
> that you read everything perfectly, it must be
> me, so I'll try to correct the grammar.
> 
> "As Judy, and *other*, more balanced, less TB
> individuals have pointed out..."

OK, Barry *hasn't* seen the light, then.  That's a
relief.

> :-)
>  
> > Observation about Paul "Premanand" Mason:
> > 
> > We've just seen him rather grossly misinterpret
> > several comments (and fail to take responsibility
> > for the misinterpretations when they were pointed
> > out to him).
> > 
> > What might this say about the accuracy of his
> > remarks concerning MMY, both in his book and in his
> > postings?
> 
> Observation:  that's a pretty classic TB thing
> to say, and do.  You're trying to take a lapse
> of normal, everyday "writer's ego" and turn it
> into a way to discredit Paul as an authority on
> Maharishi. That's as gratuitous a slam as the 
> one I called him on. Talk about smarmy.
> 
> And what's worse is you know it.

Uh, no.  These recent examples are hardly the only
ones of Paul having a tendency to misinterpret
what others say.

Plus which, I never said anything about Paul's
status as an authority on MMY; interesting how you
read that in.  Being an authority and allowing one's
bias to interfere with one's understanding of facts
are not mutually exclusive.

And how are the current misinterpretations a
manifestation of "writer's ego" as opposed to
just plain ego?  For that matter, are misinterpretations
due to "writer's ego" somehow less significant
than those due to ordinary ego?  Why is "writer's
ego" privileged?  Especially when a writer--at least
a published one--is in a position to influence large
numbers of readers?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Why is "writer's
> ego" privileged?  Especially when a writer--at least
> a published one--is in a position to influence large
> numbers of readers?

"Writer's ego" is not privileged, just understood. :-)

As for influencing large numbers of readers, might
I suggest that your sense of perspective is as skewed
as Paul's is today?  As of today, his book is listed
in Amazon's sales rankings at number 1,092,234, which is
admittedly higher than any of mine, but it doesn't really
put him in the bestseller ballpark, does it?  His subject 
matter is a gentleman whose name I think it is safe to 
say 95% of the world's population does not recognize, 
and couldn't possibly care less about if they *did* 
recognize it, much less want to read a book about him. 

Maharishi and his life are of enduring interest pretty 
much only to those who learned TM in the past, and 
really only to a small subset of them, primarily the 
ones who became TM teachers or TBs. Maharishi is just
not that important from the world's point of view.
And thus those who write about him are even less 
important in the grand scheme of things.

There is a certain liberation in not being important.
Maharishi has never understood that, nor have many of
his followers. Other teachers and other followers have.
It's purely a matter of preference, but I kinda prefer
the people who have a feel for their essential 
unimportance than I do for those who feel important.

Signing off now...you can argue with empty cyberspace,
if you think...uh...it's important enough, or that
empty cyberspace considers you important enough to
listen to.  :-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[Premanand Paul Mason]

So, as ever, a topic is derailed.

MMY can disparage whosoever he pleases, cos he gets the slack.
His lectures, his tapes, his videos can get edited to make him sound 
more balanced, but woe betide it if the bedfellow talkingheads from AMT 
detect a trace of irritation when I suggest that there may be more to 
the story than has thus far been revealed.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Judy, 
> > > > Just a few off the cuff comments to your thoughtful reply.
> > > > 
> > > > Regardless of your (our) judgement of Maharishi's state of
> > > > consciousness, how the teaching is manifested still has to be
> > > > evaluated critically. Does it acomplish it's purpose? This is 
> part
> > > > process of life.
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure we can say what its purpose is in a way
> > > that would enable us to do a critical evaluation.
> > > 
> > > How would you define it?
> > > 
> > > > You'll find the same internal consistency in many of the more 
> > > > proment Adviatic, Dzochen, Course in Miracles, etc. teachers. 
> And 
> > > > many have the same type of character flaws we talk about here.
> > > 
> > > Sure.  But internal consistency is just one of the
> > > criteria I was using.
> > > 
> > > > Most of us agree that TM has inspired benificial unfoldment of
> > > > consciousness.  When we see or come into contact with Maharishi 
> we 
> > > > get a clearer reflection/experience of OUR own Self (Blazing 
> > > > Brahman is non-dual, afterall)
> > > > 
> > > > We (both us and Maharishi) still have to work it out in the 
> > > > relative, no matter what the perspective on where or who or 
> from 
> > > > what state of consciousness the  teaching comes from. 
> > > 
> > > Yes, well said.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Without meditators there is no movement, no TMO. 
> > > > 
> > > > JohnY
> > > >
> > >
> > Sure, the purpose of the teaching is to unfold enlightenment for the
> > individual. Simple, if there is no or limited access to the teaching
> > how can that happen. Maharishi has planted that seed very widely. 
> Why
> > should it stop now? Is the TMO fulfilling it's purpose now? Very
> > difficult to say. Will it do so in the future? There certainly isn't
> > any clear indication of that. The TMO is and has been violently
> > contracting on itself. Burning many carefully build bridges along 
> the
> > way. Slowly and simply teaching all these years would have worked
> > better, in my opinion, with much less bullshit.
> 
> It's a reasonable perspective, but it isn't exactly
> the basis for an objective measurement of whether
> MMY's teaching is fulfilling its purpose.  There are
> lots of ways to interpret what MMY is doing with the
> TMO now, some of which suggest that it will
> ultimately facilitate that purpose more than going
> slowly and simply.
> 
> I've proposed one such: MMY wants to contract the
> movement and burn its bridges so that it can be
> handed over to King Tony in a nice, neat, self-
> contained package of unquestioned loyalty once MMY
> dies, which will allow Tony to take firm control
> and implement his own plans and ideas without a lot
> of controversy (or at least without as much as 
> there would have been otherwise).
> 
> In other words, the contraction now will make
> expansion easier once King Tony takes over.
> 
> I have *no* idea if that's correct; obviously we'll
> have to wait and see.  We have no idea yet what Tony
> will be like as the head of the movement, whether
> he'll take it and run with it or get all bogged
> down in trying (and inevitably failing) to be a
> second Maharishi.
> 
> But I don't see anything that would rule out that
> interpretation, at any rate.
> 
> There's more than one way to skin a cat; plus which,
> "Unfathomable is the course of action."  Who can say
> what Nature has in mind?
>

Yup, that's one idea that makes some sense. Even that could be done
without fraud. Other family run (ordinary/traditional) businesses do
it, and without being "unfathomable".

JohnY





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[FairfieldLife] Good News! New DNR rule - Urgent deadline

[Dick Mays]

Title: Good News! New DNR rule - Urgent
deadline




Friends,
I've just written a brief email, at
the bottom, and emailed it to the addresses below. Please help keep
Fairfield water free of contamination by doing the same.
Thanks!
Dick Mays


Dear JFAN
friends,

We're very
pleased to give you this good news: DNR is proposing a tougher new
rule to control ground water pollution from CAFOs! Please email
the EPC members listed at the end of this message to show your support
ö by this Friday!

Here are the
details: The Iowa Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is trying to
implement a proposal to better protect Iowaâs waterways from the
pollution of hog confinements.  The DNR says confinements have
increased significantly in the last two years, many in areas
vulnerable to groundwater pollution.

At this
Mondayâs meeting of the Iowa Environmental Protection Commission
(EPC), the DNR will propose a new rule to evaluate and place
conditions on proposed animal confinements and manure management plans
that could pose a threat to natural resources or the environment. The
DNR will evaluate proposed operations based on:


if manure will be applied on frozen
or snow-covered crop fields,
the distance from sensitive areas such as public land, trout
streams and areas where fractured bedrock lies close to the land
surface,
the potential for manure to enter a stream, including steep slopes
(greater than nine percent), type of vegetation and presence of
waterways, and
if the operation is located in a two-year capture zone for a
public water supply.


"The DNR is basically giving public
notice of the criteria that would be used when we review construction
permit applications and manure management plans that could potentially
cause environmental problems," said Vonk, DNR Director.
"This proposal would allow the DNR to place conditions on a
proposed building or manure management plan, or to deny it completely
if it posed a threat to water quality." 

JFAN
joins Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement (ICCI) in calling for
immediate implementation of the new rule.

 The
DNR had originally stated they would put the rule through as an
emergency rule, which means that it would go into effect
immediately. The DNR has now backed away from this and will put it out
for public comment.

We strongly support the rule, however,
Iowans should not have to
wait any longer to have some protection
against factory farms.
We need this rule
now.

It is
most important that you contact the EPC commissioners and DNR Director
Vonk before December 19th and let them know you support this rule and
need it to take effect now!  Just send them a simple message in
your own words letting them know you are for the new rule on water
pollution and CAFOs, and want it to take effect December
30.

Here are their e-mail addresses:  
   

Lisa Davis
Cook Donna Buell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Henry
Marquard
Jerry Peckumn, Vice-Chair
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Darrell
Hanson,
Chair Francis Thicke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Suzanne
Morrow   
Mary Gail Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

David
PettyDNR Director
Jeff Vonk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks for
helping keep Jefferson County healthy and prosperous! If you have
any questions, email us or call 209-6600.

JFAN
Board

Jefferson
County Farmers and Neighbors, Inc.

P.O. Box
811

Fairfield,
IA 52556

www.jfaniowa.org

641-209-6600


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Dick Mays <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Protect our Water Now
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dear DNR Director Vonk and Commissioners,
 
I am a resident of Jefferson County and 100% in favor the
immediate implementation of the proposed DNR tougher rule to
control ground water pollution from CAFO's.  I also strongly
favor your further consideration of air pollution and damage to
downwind property values.
 
Sincerely,
Richard H. Mays
1000 University Manor Drive, A36
Fairfield, IA 52556






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[mrfishey2001]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


"So, as ever, a topic is derailed.
 
MMY can disparage whosoever he pleases, cos he gets the slack.
His lectures, his tapes, his videos can get edited to make him sound 
more balanced, but woe betide it if the bedfellow talkingheads from 
AMT detect a trace of irritation when I suggest that there may be more 
to the story than has thus far been revealed." 



So true. Dr. PeteÕs story of censorship at the MIU film and tape 
library provided me more illumination than a weeks worth of Fairfield 
LifeÕs heady analysis. 

No clearer bias than the professed absence of one. 

-











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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultsim and Free Seekers

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Silly ego 
> > driven bullshit. 
> 
> Yes, though we may differ on the source.
>
Que? I honestly don't understand your remark.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Why is "writer's
> > ego" privileged?  Especially when a writer--at least
> > a published one--is in a position to influence large
> > numbers of readers?
> 
> "Writer's ego" is not privileged, just understood. :-)

Says Barry, failing as usual to take responsibility
for what he wrote.

> As for influencing large numbers of readers, might
> I suggest that your sense of perspective is as skewed
> as Paul's is today?  As of today, his book is listed
> in Amazon's sales rankings at number 1,092,234, which is
> admittedly higher than any of mine, but it doesn't really
> put him in the bestseller ballpark, does it?

I don't believe I suggested it did, did I?

The point is, of course, that more people than
read these forums on which Paul holds forth will
have his book; and in any case, words printed on
a page and bound between covers are usually more
influential than posts to an electronic forum.

That's why I'm wondering why misinterpretations due
to "writer's ego" are considered by you to be less
significant than those due to ordinary ego.

But you knew that.  You just couldn't come up with
a relevant response.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > Your mind is never going to get him [MMY]. Never, ever.
> > > > Amen. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > With all due respect and pardons, but that seems quite an odd 
> > thing to
> > > say. Especially from (no)one proclaiming "no self". 
> > > 
> > > Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or 
out of
> > > meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label 
or 
> > name.
> > > 
> > > What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a 
> > hallowed
> > > out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven 
from 
> > the
> > > residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, 
> > habits,
> > > experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, 
deaths,
> > > births,  brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, 
children, 
> > wars,
> > > peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, 
> > dharma,
> > > joy, sadness, dispair and elation. 
> > > 
> > > What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? 
Nothing. 
> > Other
> > > than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all 
> > vessels,
> > > you and me, are.
> > > 
> > > So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of 
> > billions of
> > > personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular 
personality
> > > has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. 
Strangelove's 
> > arm
> > > trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that 
tapestry,
> > > with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day 
ticking 
> > of
> > > LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows 
through 
> > it all.
> > > 
> > > What is hard to understand here?
> > >
> > Good Morning. So, you've narrowed your understanding down to the 
> > roughly six and half billion people currently on the planet, all 
of 
> > whom share in common what you have written about your mind's 
> > understanding of Maharishi. Are you able to be more specific?
> 
> 
> How odd that you feel 6 billion people are hallowed out, crystaline
> matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from the residue of
> thousands of lives .. (as in roasted samskaras) while living the
> fullness of effulgence (not experiences while the samskaras are 
lively). 
> 
> I guess the currency of "liberation" is so low today, anything and
> everything passses as it.
>
OK- you hadn't made the part about the samskaras being roasted and 
not lively clear in your previous posting.  





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So, as ever, a topic is derailed.
> 
> MMY can disparage whosoever he pleases, cos he gets the slack.
> His lectures, his tapes, his videos can get edited to make him sound 
> more balanced, but woe betide it if the bedfellow talkingheads from 
AMT 
> detect a trace of irritation when I suggest that there may be more 
to 
> the story than has thus far been revealed.

Perhaps if you were to actually "reveal" something
specific that you could document, rather than making
your usual vague snide innuendos, you wouldn't detect
anything that would cause you irritation on alt.m.t
(or FFL, for that matter).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[anonymousff]

You don't seem t be a fellow who parctices what he preaches.

=
All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. And certainly
don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
Amen. DR PS

==

And yet you deconstruct my intellectual understandtings, motives and
experiences. You may best be suited to taking your own advice and
doing such to your own eperiences, not others.

Aside from your imputing motives, rather crudely I might add, you have
suggeted a theory as to why so many people report quite different
things in their self-proclaimed state of enlightenment. I suggest
another theory, perhaps closer to Ochams Razor: the various
self-proclaimed liberated are experiencing different things and  thus
describing it diferently. And/or in some caes, simply parroting what
they have read or heard others say.

While I acknowledged that differences are expected when the
Indescribable is described, parallel to your point that "the
"difference" is more the result of different minds/culture expressing
that which is outside of expression", I went on to say that it is
simply odd when some express things that are directly contradictory
"there is no ego", "there is an ego". Such a contradiction is far
beyond cultural differences as I am sure we can agree.  Thus I favor
my hypothesis over yours.

But it raises an interesting point. If you hold that directly
contradictory statements about enlightenment are valid, then it seems
anything could be said about it. Thus what is the value of discussion
orexposition? Its all valid:  "Enlightenment is a red popsicle" "no
enlightenement is an orange and purple giraffe." "Enlightenment is
dreaming of sugar plums and dancing rag dolls full of glee"
"Liberation is arguing about what liberation is" "Liberation is
Liberace". The Gita and Tropic of Cancer are allequally valid
expositions of IT.

Is that your view, that all statements, contradictory or not, are all
vaild statements about enlightenment? If not, why do yuo argue that
statements such as "there is an ego" and "there is not ego" are valid
and just "cultural differences? Again, I am quite bafled by your logic
and understandings.


You ask, "Also, why the hostility?" Is that a reference to world
affairs. I missed the segue. If by some small chance yo are actually
refering to my post, I am baffled (again) by your statements. Please
point to any hostility. I have reread my post and find none. Its more
a late night reflective meandering, but hostility? Or is that the
reaction you got upon reading something that disturbed you?

You refer to my experiences. I reference them obliquley. "anyone who s
experiencing Effulgence, a seemingly endless flow of liveliness,
unshakable bliss (not all bliss is dumb), constant wakefulness,
actions happening, knowledge happening, loss of possessionship (of
ideas, POVs, relations and things), compassion that seems to be rooted
at the core of everything, a limitless sense of wonder -- and irony, a
not so worried view of "pending disasters", a not so impressed view of
pending sucesses, then wonderful."

These are my experiences. You are right, they don't meet my conceptual
definitions of enlightenment for I have none. In my post I was simply
suggestng that claiming labels is just as superficial and maningless
as it sounds -- something plastic and cheap that a dynamo laberler
could make. Talking about various concrete experiences makes a lot
more sense to me. Not to you too?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You seem to approach Realization as some sort of
> intellectual exercise. You seek conceptual consistancy
> and coherence like it was some sort of waking state
> intellectual product. You're not going to find that.
> While there is comminality to realization, there is
> also "difference". The "difference" is more the result
> of different minds/culture expressing that which is
> outside of expression. Also, why the hostility? It
> seems that people who talk about enlightenment
> experiences that don't meet your conceptual definition
> get you angry in some way. Is that right?
> 
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > The self-proclamation part has always struck me as
> > odd. Linked to the
> > absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if
> > there is some
> > insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there
> > are strong mandates
> > of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And
> > what one can
> > understand and what one cannot. 
> > 
> > And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a
> > seemingly endless flow of
> > liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is
> > dumb), constant
> > wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening,
> > loss of
> > possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and
> > things), compassion th

[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > And two, it is a healthy thing to do in speaking about it
> [enlightenment]  as if it is just another experience. Because it
> is...just...another...experience. 
> 
> And yet so many disagree that it is an experience (if that implies 
an
> experiencer) and so many disagree that it is not special. 



I am trying hard to stay away from the 'specialness' of it, because 
I think that causes a lot of confusion in a seeker's mind about what 
it is, and the (im)possiblity of attainment. It certainly did for me.
 
> So many distinct views of enlightenemnt, it makes on pause for a
> moment to wonder if maybe some are speaking of different things.

Yes, the enlightened speak about enlightenment. The almost 
enlightened imagine enlightenment, colored by their almost 
enlightenment.
 
> Its such a joy that in this age of enlightenment everyone seems 
free
> and joyous to define enlightenment any way they think is "neat" and
> then claim it. Sort of like drawing circles, a target, around an 
arrow
> you already shot. On the broadside of the barn. While the fat lady
> sings. Its such a joy.

Does sarcasm really assist this discussion?
 
> Cake anyone?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The British in India

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > MMY's personality is very much a product of his
> > > > time
> > > > > and culture. It has nothing to do with anything
> > > > > "cosmic". Blazing Brahman expresses itself through
> > > > an
> > > > > aging, slightly senile, lower-caste, 89 year old
> > > > Hindu
> > > > > man who has run a spiritual movement with an iron
> > > > fist
> > > > > for the past 50 years.
> > > > 
> > > > Boy, I think this is an important point.
> > > > 
> > > > Peter, would it also be correct to phrase it
> > > > slightly differently and say, This is *how*
> > > > Blazing Brahman is expressing itself through
> > > > this particular aging, slightly senile,
> > > > lower-caste, 89-year-old Hindu man who has
> > > > run a spiritual movement with an iron fist
> > > > for the past 50 years?
> > > 
> > > Yes, better stated your way.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I mean, obviously one has to think MMY has
> > > > *realized* Blazing Brahman in order to make
> > > > either of these two statements.
> > > > 
> > > > But people tend to look at the *expression*,
> > > > find it to be much less than what they think
> > > > of as "perfection" in a relative sense, and
> > > > on that basis assume MMY has *not* realized
> > > > Brahman.
> > > 
> > > Agreed. If you're looking for relative perfection in a
> > > realized master, good luck! For example in a
> > > residential Art of Living course I took about a year
> > > ago with SSRS in residence, I was bothered by his
> > > casual manner in talking about funny stories from his
> > > ashram and people throwing themselves at his feet. He
> > > wasn't making fun of them or anything but was talking
> > > about the difficulty in walking around and how much
> > > time it took to go from one end of his ashram to
> > > another. Very funny, very cute story. But I was amazed
> > > at part of my own reaction. I wanted him to be more
> > > serious and aloof and not have the reaction he did.
> > > Just some silly relative ideal of what a guru should
> > > be. My attachment, my problem, not his.
> > > 
> > Yes. Funny what a process that is- engaging with a guru, and 
coming 
> > to terms with who he or she is, vs who we want them to be.
> > 
> > *Paradoxically* I never had the slightest inclination to be in 
> > Maharishi's physical presence. 
> > 
> > and *paradoxically* the only guru who lived up to my 
expectations 
> > when I met him face to face was Brahmananda Saraswati aka Guru 
Dev 
> > (who was the only one I ever met face-to-face...). The 
embodiment 
> of 
> > gentleness, love, friendliness, compassion and an absolute 
pillar 
> of 
> > resolve, tenacity, steadfastness, and no compromise.
> > 
> 
> Hey Paul, I mean Saul.
>
Does that mean something? Is this a Christian reference or 
something? 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > And two, it is a healthy thing to do in speaking about it
> > [enlightenment]  as if it is just another experience. Because it
> > is...just...another...experience. 
> > 
> > And yet so many disagree that it is an experience (if that implies 
> an
> > experiencer) and so many disagree that it is not special. 
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying hard to stay away from the 'specialness' of it, because 
> I think that causes a lot of confusion in a seeker's mind about what 
> it is, and the (im)possiblity of attainment. It certainly did for me.
>  
> > So many distinct views of enlightenemnt, it makes on pause for a
> > moment to wonder if maybe some are speaking of different things.
> 
> Yes, the enlightened speak about enlightenment. The almost 
> enlightened imagine enlightenment, colored by their almost 
> enlightenment.
>  
> > Its such a joy that in this age of enlightenment everyone seems 
> free
> > and joyous to define enlightenment any way they think is "neat" and
> > then claim it. Sort of like drawing circles, a target, around an 
> arrow
> > you already shot. On the broadside of the barn. While the fat lady
> > sings. Its such a joy.
> 
> Does sarcasm really assist this discussion?
>  
> > Cake anyone?
> >

Not all humor is sarcasm. I didn't intend it as sarcasm, sorry if you
interpreted it that way and disturbed you.

It rolled off my pen more as silliness. A bit of lightness to end the
evening with.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  readers think Barry actually answered the questions>

Ahem...Barry *intentionally* answered no questions,
because he's consciously trying not to get sucked
back into an argument with the Egobitch From Hell,
who seems awfully desperate for one. 

To the tune of "Fascination":

It was desperation I know,
And it might have ended
right then, at the start
An insulting remark,
An ill-concealed snark
So I went on my way empty-minded...

:-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Dec 14, 2005, at 8:36 PM, anonymousff wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > To me, the latter is far more effective and inviting. And it 
doesn't
> > > have heavy-handedness of cultish procliamations "this is the 
way it
> > > is, period. This interprestation of reality is the only valid 
one.
> > > period. And it is known by means way beyond you. So just take 
it
> > > without questioning."
> > 
> > One of the reasons an enlightened being will typically not talk 
about  
> > enlightenment or even their own enlightenment is because this 
is,  
> > except for some generalities, of little help in awakening the 
true  
> > state of enlightenment in others. In other words, it's a very  
> > inefficient way to introduce that state (either temporarily or  
> > permanently) in students.
> > 
> > It's interesting the culture that has developed in the west from 
the  
> > satsangs of Ramana, Nisargadatta and Papaji. It's nothing like 
the  
> > sadhanas that lead them to the non-dual state in the first 
place.  
> > Ramana was a devotee of Kali who had numerous non-dual sadhanas. 
But  
> > he did not teach that to his student (that I am aware of). And  
> > Nisargadatta had a Nath guru who undoubtedly taught him some 
great  
> > teaching which lead to his ripening and liberation. But he also 
would  
> > not even talk of these teachings in any detail. They gave no 
methods  
> > for the masses that flocked to them like the ones they 
themselves  
> > used. But laughingly, those who emulate their examples merely 
parody  
> > there darshans as if that will do it. It would be laughable if 
it  
> > wasn't so sad. Even Papaji said none of his students received 
his  
> > final teaching--the final stroke. They were just leeches. But 
those  
> > who tasted--glimpsed--the View of non-duality abruptly claimed 
it as  
> > their own. And then they declared satsangs of their own. And 
they  
> > declared themselves enlightened on their own...even after people 
like  
> > Papaji told them, no, sorry.
> > 
> > It's like the old saying 'those who know, don't say; those who 
say,  
> > don't know.'
> > 
> > Worth remembering.
> >
> 
> The self-proclamation part has always struck me as odd. Linked to 
the
> absolutist interpretations of what IT IS. As if there is some
> insecurity. THIS has to be IT. And odd that there are strong 
mandates
> of how IT can be spoken of. And how IT cannot. And what one can
> understand and what one cannot. 
> 
> And if anyone is experiencing Effulgence, a seemingly endless flow 
of
> liveliness, unshakable bliss (not all bliss is dumb), constant
> wakefulness, actions happening, knowledge happening, loss of
> possessionship (of ideas, POVs, relations and things), compassion 
that
> seems to be rooted at the core of everything, a limitless sense of
> wonder -- and irony, a not so worried view of "pending disasters", 
a
> not so impressed view of pending sucesses, then wonderful. Why not
> speak of these things. Why speak in nebulous labels 
of "liberation, 
> awakening, and enlightenment"? Whose liberation, whose awakening? 
So
> many paths, so many traditions make so many distinctions. Lots of
> trail markers on this hike. Why be so anxious to claim the 
pinnacle. 
> Why not just claim, if claims are needed,  "I am hiking, and its 
fun".
> (oops, sorry "the body is hiking" 
> 
> 
> (And I mean experience not in the sense of "I see the flower" and 
this
> "I experience it", but in the sense of "Consciousness Groking", 
> 
> And the process of self-proclamation, what a concept. Someone 
reads a
> book and says "I GET that! I must be enlightened."  "hm, they say 
here
> no-self is enlightenment. I have searched high and low and cannot 
find
> an ego. Ergo I am enlightened."  Yet so many self-proclaimed
> enlightened, even  here on this list, but more so else where, 
directly
> contradict each other. 
> 
> Sure the indescribable can be approached from different angles. But
> its odd when A says "There is absolutely no ego" and B says, "of
> course there is an ego, you are insane to think there isn't", and C
> says "well, there is an ego, but it finds its proper role as 
servant,
> not master" and D says "You are a fool to try to understand this
> paradox of ego, it is Brahman, it is confusion" and E says "well, 
if
> you take this conic section and slice it, its clear the ego is an
> elipse with 16 dancing golden elves who are really the ashwins." 
> Perhaps they each went to a different Satsang, or read a different 
book.
> 
> Its odd too people claim labels (enlightenemnt, awakening,
> liberation", and not specific "attributes" of such. Its as if the
> label is a smoke screen for "all attributes". But few are willng to
> proclaim specific attributes and discuss in detail. Which if the
> purpose is helping others, to promote insight and understand

[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Your mind is never going to get him [MMY]. Never, ever.
> > > > > Amen. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > With all due respect and pardons, but that seems quite an odd 
> > > thing to
> > > > say. Especially from (no)one proclaiming "no self". 
> > > > 
> > > > Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or 
> out of
> > > > meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label 
> or 
> > > name.
> > > > 
> > > > What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a 
> > > hallowed
> > > > out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven 
> from 
> > > the
> > > > residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, 
> > > habits,
> > > > experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, 
> deaths,
> > > > births,  brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, 
> children, 
> > > wars,
> > > > peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, 
> > > dharma,
> > > > joy, sadness, dispair and elation. 
> > > > 
> > > > What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? 
> Nothing. 
> > > Other
> > > > than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all 
> > > vessels,
> > > > you and me, are.
> > > > 
> > > > So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of 
> > > billions of
> > > > personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular 
> personality
> > > > has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. 
> Strangelove's 
> > > arm
> > > > trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that 
> tapestry,
> > > > with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day 
> ticking 
> > > of
> > > > LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows 
> through 
> > > it all.
> > > > 
> > > > What is hard to understand here?
> > > >
> > > Good Morning. So, you've narrowed your understanding down to the 
> > > roughly six and half billion people currently on the planet, all 
> of 
> > > whom share in common what you have written about your mind's 
> > > understanding of Maharishi. Are you able to be more specific?
> > 
> > 
> > How odd that you feel 6 billion people are hallowed out, crystaline
> > matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from the residue of
> > thousands of lives .. (as in roasted samskaras) while living the
> > fullness of effulgence (not experiences while the samskaras are 
> lively). 
> > 
> > I guess the currency of "liberation" is so low today, anything and
> > everything passses as it.
> >
> OK- you hadn't made the part about the samskaras being roasted and 
> not lively clear in your previous posting.


Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its a
HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made the "empty shell"
idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an experiential difference.







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[FairfieldLife] M.A. Center Donates $1M to Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

[Rick Archer]

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[Peter]

--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> 
> 
> Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> a
> HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> the "empty shell"
> idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> experiential difference.

What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper? 



> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> >  > readers think Barry actually answered the questions>
> 
> Ahem...Barry *intentionally* answered no questions,
> because he's consciously trying not to get sucked
> back into an argument with the Egobitch From Hell,
> who seems awfully desperate for one.

Sincere, reasonable, responsive answers would be
unlikely to create an argument.  It's your constant
dodging and red herring-strewing and refusal to take
responsibility for what you write that create the
arguments you then have to find a way to duck.

If you hadn't attempted to put forward "writer's ego"
as somehow more excusable than ordinary ego when it's
responsible for misinterpretations, as a way to try
to dump on me for having noted Paul's propensity for
same, you wouldn't have had to turn somersaults to
get out of dealing with the absurdity of such a
distinction.



> 
> To the tune of "Fascination":
> 
> It was desperation I know,
> And it might have ended
> right then, at the start
> An insulting remark,
> An ill-concealed snark
> So I went on my way empty-minded...
> 
> :-)
>







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[FairfieldLife] Cultism and Free Seekers

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 

> The young lady in question said it was her
> experience that her mind was never going to figure it out. Not Now.
> Not ever. 

Sorry, I misread that very last part of the letter. I thought you were
commenting that "her mind was never going to figure it out. Not Now.
 Not ever. " Sorry.

That one small misreading however does not change the main point of
the post. 

I quoted the following, and suggested support for its validity.

=
All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. And certainly
don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
Amen. DR PS

==

Your post appeared to contradict this, that you were not just speaking
of your own eperience but making unversal claims as to all others'
experiences. If I misudnderstood this too, aplologies.

> The writer looking out through these eyes is that Brahman.
> What has been written is the experience of life lived. It may not be
> your experience if you are real attached to that I you keep inserting
> in someones elses letter. 


However, if I did misunderstand your position, and now it is clarified
that you only speak for your own experiences, I fail to see your
reason for disturbance about my stating "perhaps what Tom meant to say
was ..." and as an interesing exercise in tone, creating an
alternative text, recasting your post interms of your experience and
not universal claims about all others' experiences. I would think you
would say, upon reading the alternative way of treating the matter
"yes, that is all I meant, that I am describing my own experiences,
not making unversal claims about others'."

If on the otherhand, you beleive Dr. Stuphens points are wrong and you
are making universal claims about all others' experiences, then the
follow-up post to this on "Cultism and Free Seekers" has more
importance. It would confirm my worst, though barely ever  dwelt on
fears about you Tom, that if holding such a position, you would be a
cultist carving out your own creed with an absolutist sense of
universal Truth  for all, based solely on your own personal experience
(as grand as that may be.)









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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > >  > > readers think Barry actually answered the questions>
> > 
> > Ahem...Barry *intentionally* answered no questions,
> > because he's consciously trying not to get sucked
> > back into an argument with the Egobitch From Hell,
> > who seems awfully desperate for one.
> 
> Sincere, reasonable, responsive answers would be
> unlikely to create an argument.  It's your constant
> dodging and red herring-strewing and refusal to take
> responsibility for what you write that create the
> arguments you then have to find a way to duck.
> 
> If you hadn't attempted to put forward "writer's ego"
> as somehow more excusable than ordinary ego when it's
> responsible for misinterpretations, as a way to try
> to dump on me for having noted Paul's propensity for
> same, you wouldn't have had to turn somersaults to
> get out of dealing with the absurdity of such a
> distinction.

D E S P E R A T E  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > a
> > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > the "empty shell"
> > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > experiential difference.
> 
> What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper? 
> 

Apparently nothing you can related to. 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > a
> > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > the "empty shell"
> > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > experiential difference.
>
> What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper?
>

Apparently nothing you can relate to.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > a
> > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > the "empty shell"
> > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > experiential difference.
> 
> What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper? 
> 
If I may, anon or Akasha's, and Vaj's insistence on keeping 
discussions of enlightenment both intellectually consistent, 
available to Socratic method, and in Vaj's case, adhering to some as 
yet unnamed tradition, are expressed in the emotion of 'the seeker's 
burn'. It is not hostility per se in Akasha's case directed at 
anyone in particular. 

He is just pissed off and frustrated in general that his 
enlightenment eludes him, and chooses to take it out on anyone who 
brings up the topic. I can relate, and I'm sure you can too, Peter. 
Before such a breakthrough is a lot of frustration for something so 
tantalizingly close and yet apparently unreachable.

Akasha chooses to take refuge in his intellect, to explain away much 
of what you and I and Tom (and Rory, when he was posting) say as 
inconsistent with his head trip of 'enlightenment'. 

As for Vaj, he has studied much about enlightenment, and again is 
full of 'Thou shalt' and 'Thou shalt not' stuff from various 
teachers. He doesn't understand that enlightenment does not adhere 
to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period.

Btw, did you catch Vaj's reference about offlist discussions with 
Akasha on demonic possession? Well, I guess 'the devil is in the 
details', as they say... 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> 
> > The young lady in question said it was her
> > experience that her mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
Now.
> > Not ever. 
> 
> Sorry, I misread that very last part of the letter. I thought you 
were
> commenting that "her mind was never going to figure it out. Not 
Now.
>  Not ever. " Sorry.
> 
> That one small misreading however does not change the main point of
> the post. 
> 
> I quoted the following, and suggested support for its validity.
> 
> =
> All valid observations and insights that you need to
> temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
> validity of another's experience. You can only talk
> about what you experience, not another. And certainly
> don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
> Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
> Amen. DR PS
> 
> ==
> 
> Your post appeared to contradict this, that you were not just 
speaking
> of your own eperience but making unversal claims as to all others'
> experiences. If I misudnderstood this too, aplologies.
> 
> > The writer looking out through these eyes is that Brahman.
> > What has been written is the experience of life lived. It may 
not be
> > your experience if you are real attached to that I you keep 
inserting
> > in someones elses letter. 
> 
> 
> However, if I did misunderstand your position, and now it is 
clarified
> that you only speak for your own experiences, I fail to see your
> reason for disturbance about my stating "perhaps what Tom meant to 
say
> was ..." and as an interesing exercise in tone, creating an
> alternative text, recasting your post interms of your experience 
and
> not universal claims about all others' experiences. I would think 
you
> would say, upon reading the alternative way of treating the matter
> "yes, that is all I meant, that I am describing my own experiences,
> not making unversal claims about others'."
> 
> If on the otherhand, you beleive Dr. Stuphens points are wrong and 
you
> are making universal claims about all others' experiences, then the
> follow-up post to this on "Cultism and Free Seekers" has more
> importance. It would confirm my worst, though barely ever  dwelt on
> fears about you Tom, that if holding such a position, you would be 
a
> cultist carving out your own creed with an absolutist sense of
> universal Truth  for all, based solely on your own personal 
experience
> (as grand as that may be.)
>
Careful Akasha, or you will succeed only in tying yourself into a 
pretzel.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> >  > readers think Barry actually answered the questions>
> 
> Ahem...Barry *intentionally* answered no questions,
> because he's consciously trying not to get sucked
> back into an argument with the Egobitch From Hell,
> who seems awfully desperate for one. 

I am just curious where in your body is the Egobitch from Hell 
located? I have looked and I can't find one...
 
> To the tune of "Fascination":
> 
> It was desperation I know,
> And it might have ended
> right then, at the start
> An insulting remark,
> An ill-concealed snark
> So I went on my way empty-minded...
> 
> :-)
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

Its sort of sad people are so vested in explaining other people's
motives and experiences. I suggest you take the words of a wise man to
heart.

=
All valid observations and insights that you need to
temper your own experience with, not deconstruct the
validity of another's experience. You can only talk
about what you experience, not another. And certainly
don't expect social consensus with someone like MMY.
Your mind is never going to get him. Never, ever.
Amen. DR PS

==



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > > a
> > > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > > the "empty shell"
> > > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > > experiential difference.
> > 
> > What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper? 
> > 
> If I may, anon or Akasha's, and Vaj's insistence on keeping 
> discussions of enlightenment both intellectually consistent, 
> available to Socratic method, and in Vaj's case, adhering to some as 
> yet unnamed tradition, are expressed in the emotion of 'the seeker's 
> burn'. It is not hostility per se in Akasha's case directed at 
> anyone in particular. 
> 
> He is just pissed off and frustrated in general that his 
> enlightenment eludes him, and chooses to take it out on anyone who 
> brings up the topic. I can relate, and I'm sure you can too, Peter. 
> Before such a breakthrough is a lot of frustration for something so 
> tantalizingly close and yet apparently unreachable.
> 
> Akasha chooses to take refuge in his intellect, to explain away much 
> of what you and I and Tom (and Rory, when he was posting) say as 
> inconsistent with his head trip of 'enlightenment'. 
> 
> As for Vaj, he has studied much about enlightenment, and again is 
> full of 'Thou shalt' and 'Thou shalt not' stuff from various 
> teachers. He doesn't understand that enlightenment does not adhere 
> to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period.
> 
> Btw, did you catch Vaj's reference about offlist discussions with 
> Akasha on demonic possession? Well, I guess 'the devil is in the 
> details', as they say...
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > a
> > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > the "empty shell"
> > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > experiential difference.
>
> What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper?
>

Apparently nothing you can relate to.

Perhaps its not in your experience, but with time and grace, there is
a sense that the body, mind, intellect and all become HOLLOW and
empty. They appear to become more TRANSPARENT, as if CRYSTALINE. Their
functioning seems, as a poetic metaphor, like a RESIDUE -- though its
a complex pattern like a TAPESTRY. 

This appears to happen as those knots within our soul (another poetic
phrase) loosen and unravel. Like a know in a rope, when it is untied,
it does not exist, But what is left is some small creasing of the
rope. As knots unravel, there is that growing sense of being HOLLOW
AND EMPTY. But the crease from the past knots causee enough "dust"
to form on the otherwise transparent Crystaline form or body, mind
intellect and all that remains. The dust creates some defraction of
both Effulgence and the light of everyday life events. This light
defraction (again a poetic metaphor) gives the appearance of the
former mundane earthy body, mind and intellect, though its is just a
mirage.

Those knots, in classical literature, are called samskaras. 

I hope this helps.













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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[Patrick Gillam]

--- Vaj wrote:
> 
> Each darshana has it's own internal logic. If knowledge is structured  
> in consciousness then each darshana/View relating to a specific state  
> of consciousness will be unique but appropriately descriptive of that  
> state. It's fashionable, esp. among paths that are incomplete or  
> false paths to suggest otherwise. Shantideva put it nicely when he  
> opined "View determines Fruit." Yum.

Could views or darshanas then specialize? One darshana 
for quickness of attainment, one for completeness, one 
for easier life in relative creation? One flat, one textured?






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[FairfieldLife] The cutting room floor

[ultrarishi]

Speaking of edited versions of MMY's lectures, etc... A number of 
years ago I was watching a video on KSCI with Maharishi rambling on 
about some topic that now escapes.  What captured my attention was 
that it appeared MMY's last meal apparently didn't agree with him, so 
there would be these pause where it was pretty obvious he was belching 
or suppressing a hickup, but the audio was muted for that second.  It 
was getting pretty funny after awhile because it went on and on for 
minutes.  The way you could tell it was being suppressed was that the 
background noise would just disappear.  During his speech, the quite 
parts would be filled with tape hiss, background noise, PA hum, etc., 
then a belch would pop up and there were would be dead silence filling 
the action.

I wanted to give the poor bastard a Tums, which I would have repackage 
as EnlightenMINTS.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  > > > readers think Barry actually answered the questions>
> > > 
> > > Ahem...Barry *intentionally* answered no questions,
> > > because he's consciously trying not to get sucked
> > > back into an argument with the Egobitch From Hell,
> > > who seems awfully desperate for one.
> > 
> > Sincere, reasonable, responsive answers would be
> > unlikely to create an argument.  It's your constant
> > dodging and red herring-strewing and refusal to take
> > responsibility for what you write that create the
> > arguments you then have to find a way to duck.
> > 
> > If you hadn't attempted to put forward "writer's ego"
> > as somehow more excusable than ordinary ego when it's
> > responsible for misinterpretations, as a way to try
> > to dump on me for having noted Paul's propensity for
> > same, you wouldn't have had to turn somersaults to
> > get out of dealing with the absurdity of such a
> > distinction.
> 
> D E S P E R A T E  :-)

Nope.  Just wanted to make the point about how
desperate *you* are to avoid having to take
responsibility for what you say.

With your thoughtful assistance, I've made that
point, in spades.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[Patrick Gillam]

--- jim_flanegin wrote:
>
> enlightenment does not adhere 
> to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period.

I've been given to understand that enlightenment 
changes quite a bit from one spiritual tradition to 
another. I'm told, for instance, that Buddhists 
disagree with Hindus on key points, and when 
their adherents attain end states they call awakening 
or enlightenment, the attainees describe their 
experiences differently from one another but 
consistent with their traditions.

Native Americans have no such states in their 
traditions, suggesting enlightenment is not 
something that all traditions recognize.

View determines fruit, as Vaj quoted a master 
as saying. Or as Dana Sawyer says, precept 
determines percept.

I'm not sure if I'm disagreeeing with you here, Jim. 
I don't know enough about either side of the discussion. 
I'm simply expressing some cognitive dissonance with 
the statement that enlightenment does not adhere to 
any tradition.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: COB and F-land?

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Conan O'Brien must have lived in (Sweden-)Finland in
> some previous lifetime. Otherwise his "obsession" with
> Finland is unconceivable! 
> (Finland was a part of Sweden for several hundred years
> up to 1809.)


Well, he does look like your madame prime minister -- when he holds up
like photos







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps I am too prone to the poetic. I thought "Its
> > > a
> > > HOLLOWED OUT, CRYSTALINE matrix, a unique
> > > TRANSPARENT tapestry woven
> > > from the RESIDUE of thousands of lives, ..." made
> > > the "empty shell"
> > > idea of roasted smaskaras clear. Perhaps its an
> > > experiential difference.
> >
> > What the f**k are you talking about, Grasshopper?
> >
> 
> Apparently nothing you can relate to.
> 
> Perhaps its not in your experience, but with time and grace, there is
> a sense that the body, mind, intellect and all become HOLLOW and
> empty. They appear to become more TRANSPARENT, as if CRYSTALINE. Their
> functioning seems, as a poetic metaphor, like a RESIDUE -- though its
> a complex pattern like a TAPESTRY. 
> 
> This appears to happen as those knots within our soul (another poetic
> phrase) loosen and unravel. Like a know in a rope, when it is untied,
> it does not exist, But what is left is some small creasing of the
> rope. As knots unravel, there is that growing sense of being HOLLOW
> AND EMPTY. But the crease from the past knots causee enough "dust"
> to form on the otherwise transparent Crystaline form or body, mind
> intellect and all that remains. The dust creates some defraction of
> both Effulgence and the light of everyday life events. This light
> defraction (again a poetic metaphor) gives the appearance of the
> former mundane earthy body, mind and intellect, though its is just a
> mirage.
> 
> Those knots, in classical literature, are called samskaras. 
> 
> I hope this helps.


-


With the poetic allusions clarified, perhaps the original post makes
more sense to those prone to literal readings.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/81889

"Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever." DR. PS


Who / what is Maharishi? The same as we all experience in or out of
meditation. Effulgence, for want of a better inadequate label or name.

What is the personality, mind, intellect of Maharishi? Its a hallowed
out, crystaline matrix, a unique transparent tapestry woven from the
residue of thousands of lives, training, teachers, culturing, habits,
experiences, karmas, sadhanas, tapas, sacrafices, blunders, deaths,
births, brothers, sisters, pets, hunger, sex, wives, children, wars,
peace, oppulence, wandering, seclusion, fame, poverty, shame, dharma,
joy, sadness, dispair and elation.

What does this tapestry have to do with the Effulgent? Nothing. Other
than being a vessel for the Effulgent to flow through. As all vessels,
you and me, are.

So there is Effulgence, and there is a personality. One of billions of
personalities cultured over the eons. That a particular personality
has quirks, is odd, misbehaves sometimes -- like Dr. Strangelove's arm
trying to chock him -- its all reaction. Reaction of that tapestry,
with all its quirky embedded designs, with the day to day ticking of
LIFE and experience as presented, while EFFULGENCE flows through it all.

What is hard to understand here?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- jim_flanegin wrote:
> >
> > enlightenment does not adhere 
> > to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period.

And your detailed study of enlightenment traditions include which
cultures?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

--- Anonymousff wrote:
> > If on the otherhand, you beleive Dr. Stuphens points are wrong and 
> you
> > are making universal claims about all others' experiences, then the
> > follow-up post to this on "Cultism and Free Seekers" has more
> > importance. It would confirm my worst, though barely ever  dwelt on
> > fears about you Tom, that if holding such a position, you would be 
> a
> > cultist carving out your own creed with an absolutist sense of
> > universal Truth  for all, based solely on your own personal 
> experience
> > (as grand as that may be.)


> Careful or you will succeed only in tying yourself into a 
> pretzel.

I WISH. I wish I could get into some of the pretzal asana poses I used
to, in my teens and twenties. Oh well, the Wheel of Time moves on. 

But thanks for the good wishes.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> He is just pissed off and frustrated in general that his 
> enlightenment eludes him, and chooses to take it out on anyone who 
> brings up the topic. I can relate, and I'm sure you can too, Peter. 
> Before such a breakthrough is a lot of frustration for something so 
> tantalizingly close and yet apparently unreachable.

You know, Jim, it's entirely possible to be pissed off
and frustrated with what presumably awakened people say
about enlightenment *without* also being frustrated and
pissed off that one has not yet achieved it oneself.

Until one is enlightened, what the presumably awakened
say about it is confusing, by the very nature of the
beast.  But frustration on the part of the ignorant with
that confusion may not be the same as frustration that
they are not yet enlightened.


> Btw, did you catch Vaj's reference about offlist discussions with 
> Akasha on demonic possession? Well, I guess 'the devil is in the 
> details', as they say...

Vaj is fond of mentioning his offlist discussions in his
public posts.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The cutting room floor

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ultrarishi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Speaking of edited versions of MMY's lectures, etc... A number of 
> years ago I was watching a video on KSCI with Maharishi rambling on 
> about some topic that now escapes.  What captured my attention was 
> that it appeared MMY's last meal apparently didn't agree with him, 
so 
> there would be these pause where it was pretty obvious he was 
belching 
> or suppressing a hickup, but the audio was muted for that second.  
It 
> was getting pretty funny after awhile because it went on and on for 
> minutes.  The way you could tell it was being suppressed was that 
the 
> background noise would just disappear.  During his speech, the 
quite 
> parts would be filled with tape hiss, background noise, PA hum, 
etc., 
> then a belch would pop up and there were would be dead silence 
filling 
> the action.
> 
> I wanted to give the poor bastard a Tums, which I would have 
repackage 
> as EnlightenMINTS.

I've seen tapes like that, but apparently they put a little
more work into the editing, in that during the silences the
*video* would switch quickly to brief shots of the audience.

Just before the switch, in a couple of cases you could
see him preparing to belch.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

Its also entirely possible that some people simply are not pissed off.
Or even frustrated. But for Jim perhaps, its a strange unbelievable
phenomenon, not having experienced it apparently.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > He is just pissed off and frustrated in general that his 
> > enlightenment eludes him, and chooses to take it out on anyone who 
> > brings up the topic. I can relate, and I'm sure you can too, Peter. 
> > Before such a breakthrough is a lot of frustration for something so 
> > tantalizingly close and yet apparently unreachable.
> 
> You know, Jim, it's entirely possible to be pissed off
> and frustrated with what presumably awakened people say
> about enlightenment *without* also being frustrated and
> pissed off that one has not yet achieved it oneself.
> 
> Until one is enlightened, what the presumably awakened
> say about it is confusing, by the very nature of the
> beast.  But frustration on the part of the ignorant with
> that confusion may not be the same as frustration that
> they are not yet enlightened.
> 
> 
> > Btw, did you catch Vaj's reference about offlist discussions with 
> > Akasha on demonic possession? Well, I guess 'the devil is in the 
> > details', as they say...
> 
> Vaj is fond of mentioning his offlist discussions in his
> public posts.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cultism and Free Seekers

[Vaj]

On Dec 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote:--- Vaj wrote:  Each darshana has it's own internal logic. If knowledge is structured   in consciousness then each darshana/View relating to a specific state   of consciousness will be unique but appropriately descriptive of that   state. It's fashionable, esp. among paths that are incomplete or   false paths to suggest otherwise. Shantideva put it nicely when he   opined "View determines Fruit." Yum.  Could views or darshanas then specialize? One darshana  for quickness of attainment, one for completeness, one  for easier life in relative creation? One flat, one textured? You forgot corduroy :-).There are definitely ones that are faster than others. One of the reasons it's great to have an ishta/yidam/personal deity is that it makes life in the relative much easier. Both Hindus and Buddhist rely heavily on these--for both attainment and relative boons.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > He is just pissed off and frustrated in general that his 
> > > enlightenment eludes him, and chooses to take it out on anyone
who brings up the topic. I can relate, and I'm sure you can too, Peter. 
> > > Before such a breakthrough is a lot of frustration for something
so tantalizingly close and yet apparently unreachable.

The imputing of others motives, the deconstruction of others'
experiences is getting fascinating on this board. Like a soap opera of
vindictiveness. Even though Dr. Stuphen, apparently the most educated
on this board in these matters, says that is impossible to do
correctly. Yet, ignoring such wise counsel,  some still seem obsessed
with doing so. 

A more subtle thing appears to present itself. The enlightenment
story. Some appear to claim it as a means to differentiate themselves
from others. So many tribes, races, religions, creeds, nations and
movements  have done this in the past and present. I am in (arbitrry)
Circle A  and you are not. You are not one of us. We are special. 

Who knows if this is what is going on in Jim's mind, but there appears
to be a pattern of such in any number of posters. Just an observation.

If this pattern does exist, it seems strange to me. While I personaly
think enlightement is a bogus and misused label, it appears that
adherents (worshipers to such label idols?)  proclaim "oneness amongst
us all". Yet an apparent (observable) tendency to differentiate "us
from them". All facilitated by "the enlightenment story". And other tools.

While I am not sayng walking the talk is a sign of so called
enlightenment (btw, please at least first define your enlightenment
tradition if you are going to use the term), not walking ones talk
would seem a weak sign of so called enlightenment.   But then again,
"Enlightenment is a Big Red Popsicle!", so anything goes.








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[FairfieldLife] Apologies to Dr. Sutphen - spelling error

[anonymousff]

I have been quoting you as Dr. Stuphen. Sorry, I should have checked
the spelling before citing you -- in what I think is a great quote.
("cant deconstruct others experiences"

I found my spelling error in doing a google search of you to see whcih
university you teach at. Even Google appears to know its Sutphen, not
Stuphen. 

You have alluded to teaching classes. I didn't see you as professor or
adjunct faculty at any florida university or colege. Is this an
oversight on the colleges part?

Nor any listing in professional psychogist associations. Or even a
listing of a practice.

I checked vet schools, but no listing there either, so Mr Paul is
apparently mistaken in that assumption. 

One post claimed you were a practicioner of "experimental psychology"
not counseling or clinical psychology? Is this correct?

Certainly its not mandatory that you post your professional
qualifications. But you cite them as a basis of your expertise at
times. As did I just recently ("most knowledgable on this board in
these matters".) So any professional cites or descriptions would be of
interest, if you don't mind sharing.

  





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Apologies to Dr. Sutphen - spelling error

[Peter]

--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have been quoting you as Dr. Stuphen. Sorry, I
> should have checked
> the spelling before citing you -- in what I think is
> a great quote.
> ("cant deconstruct others experiences"

A common mistake. You should see how my students spell
my name. The best was, "Tufin"!!!


> 
> I found my spelling error in doing a google search
> of you to see whcih
> university you teach at. Even Google appears to know
> its Sutphen, not
> Stuphen. 
> 
> You have alluded to teaching classes. I didn't see
> you as professor or
> adjunct faculty at any florida university or colege.
> Is this an
> oversight on the colleges part?

Broward Community College and Nova Southeastern
University


> 
> Nor any listing in professional psychogist
> associations. Or even a
> listing of a practice.

Hmmm?


> 
> I checked vet schools, but no listing there either,
> so Mr Paul is
> apparently mistaken in that assumption.

WoooF!! 
> 
> One post claimed you were a practicioner of
> "experimental psychology"
> not counseling or clinical psychology? Is this
> correct?

No. clinical psychologist in Florida. It might be a
mispelling of "experiential"
> 
> Certainly its not mandatory that you post your
> professional
> qualifications. But you cite them as a basis of your
> expertise at
> times. As did I just recently ("most knowledgable on
> this board in
> these matters".) So any professional cites or
> descriptions would be of
> interest, if you don't mind sharing.

You can find me in the State of Florida, Department of
Health database for psychologists.

> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[anonymousff]

> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 

"his enlightenment eludes him" 

A sign of great writing is you can read it over several times and find
great new gems.

Jim, I admire your enlightenment tradition, what ever it is, for such
unique view of enlightenment, distinct from any other enlightenemnt
tradition I have encountered.

In fours short words, its almost aphorismic, to both assign
posseionship of enlightenment to an individual "his enlightenment" and
the implication that it is an individual who is enlightened,
"enlightenment eludes him" is in such stark contrast to other
traditions, I have to stand up and cheer that you are revealing some
new yet uncovered, distinct description of the multi-cultural vast
diversity in the use of the term enlightenemnt.  It certainly supports
the thesis that many different cultures and traditions  experience
many different things that they paradoxically all call the same thing
"enlightenement".

While being  steeped in your enlightenment tradtion, you may, or may
not, be aware of how other traditions use the same term -- but with
clearly a vastly different experience attached. For example many
eastern traditions hold that possessionship of an enlightened status
makes no sense whatso ever. The phrase would never enter their lexicon
because (they claim) that is not the experience. In their world, there
is no possessor, no experiencer, just the commonality of all existence
that pervades ones awareness. 

And they go on to hold, that an individual never becomes enlightened.
Thus enlightenment "eluding an individual" again would be non-sensical
to these classical eastern traditions. It is the commonality of all
existence that awakens unto itself. It has nothng to do with the
individual. Some such traditions even hold that any sense of
individuality is an illusion. 

So keep up the good work in reporting these utterly unique
descriptions of the term enlightenemnt, from your enlightenment
tradition, and the correspondng implied experiences that are so
utterly different and unique compared to classical enlightenment
traditions. 

By the way, what is your enlightenment tradition?









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[FairfieldLife] Judy and TorquiseB

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:

Tom T:
OK folks I thought you were both going on the wagon. This addictive
relationship is pretty toxic for us as well as you. Where is the need
to continue based? What is the pay off you both get out of throwing
brick bats? This too is your wholeness. Embrace the others position
and practice what you say you are here for-spirituality. Love you both
Tom T





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Apologies to Dr. Sutphen - spelling error

[anonymousff]

Thanks. I have also referred to you as Dr. PS. I hope that is a
comfortable moniker for you.

But, I do pray to God that your middle inital is not M.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I have been quoting you as Dr. Stuphen. Sorry, I
> > should have checked
> > the spelling before citing you -- in what I think is
> > a great quote.
> > ("cant deconstruct others experiences"
> 
> A common mistake. You should see how my students spell
> my name. The best was, "Tufin"!!!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Judy and TorquiseB

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> 
> Tom T:
> OK folks I thought you were both going on the wagon. This addictive
> relationship is pretty toxic for us as well as you. Where is the need
> to continue based? What is the pay off you both get out of throwing
> brick bats? This too is your wholeness. Embrace the others position
> and practice what you say you are here for-spirituality. Love you both
> Tom T

And their banter irritates you, why? Do you sense some feeling in your
body when you read their, often delightful, banter? Some say breathing
through that feeling can help. It can bring more wholness to your life.










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[FairfieldLife] Christ All Mighty

[braaahmaan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
"tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"  > The writer looking out through
these eyes is that Brahman.

Speak for yourself Tom, not for me, your pal Braaahmaan. 

I grant you authority to speak of your own experiences. And your own
interpretation of your own experiences. No other licenses granted.

Your claiming to speak for Braaahmaan is like Jerry Farwell claiming
to speak for Christ and his pervading Consciousness.

In Wholeness,

B.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[at_man_and_brahman]

FFL is wasted by all the eternal bullshit
between people exemplified by the thread 
following my original posted question.

I asked a direct and worthwhile question
about Maharishi's family that, of course,
was ignored in favor of people being 
pointlessly hateful with each other.

I'll ask my question again. It shows up at the
bottom of the information below.

In Paul Mason's book, he writes:

Rumours have also circulated about
another aspect of his 'private' life,
about the presence of members of
the family holding posts in his various
organisations. The following report is
said to have been carried by
The Illustrated Weekly of India :

Among the yogi's relatives, his brother
J P Srivastava's sons, Anand and
Ajay Prakash, seem to be in charge
of accounts and administration.
The [Maharishi's] brother, reportedly,
is not given much importance in the
family hierarchy, for reasons that date
back to the illustrious younger sibling's
youth. Mahesh Yogi, apparently, had
early in life forsaken hearth and home
after being allegedly ill-treated by his brother

The yogi, is reportedly, fondest of his
niece, Kirti, his sister Indira's daughter
She has two brothers, Praful and Pramod.
While Pramod has settled in West Germany
through the benevolence of his uncle
[the Maharishi], Praful operates from India,
say sources. The Maharishi's munificence
extends to more distant relatives as well.
Girish Varna, the son of one of the yogi's
paternal uncles, has comfortably settled
at NOIDA


and, in post 78157, Bob Brigante writes:

posted on another list:

Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97,
alive and kicking. He was recently seen
this past Oct 12th on victory day on the
broadcast from the globalcountry of World
peace. He told a friend privately that there
is a tradition in India not to talk about a
saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.

>From an inspirational point of view,
we can guess at certain things about
Maharishi's life, but his real essence becomes
more and more familiar based on our
own enlightenment.
___

Is it the case that there are two known brothers,
one Maharishi's enemy and one a devotee? And,
are either of his listed nephews the one who runs the
controversial Raju clinic?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> FFL is wasted by all the eternal bullshit
> between people exemplified by the thread 
> following my original posted question.

Yes, the exchange this morning appeared even more bizzare than usual.
It reminded me of the scene in "Four Weddings and a Funeral" where
Hugh Grant is seated at the wedding dinner next to a dogey old man
clearly not quite all there. The old man makes some diparaging remark
about Hugh, seen by the old man as the old mans brother. Hugh, a bit
perplexed and flushed says, "but pardon me sir, I am not your
brother."  the old man stares ice at him and in highly distilled,
quiet rage, grits out, "Are you telling me I don't know my own brother?"







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Christ All Mighty

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"  > The writer looking out through
> these eyes is that Brahman.
> 
> Speak for yourself Tom, not for me, your pal Braaahmaan. 
> 
> I grant you authority to speak of your own experiences. And your own
> interpretation of your own experiences. No other licenses granted.
> 
> Your claiming to speak for Braaahmaan is like Jerry Farwell claiming
> to speak for Christ and his pervading Consciousness.
> 
> In Wholeness,
> 
> B.
>
Is Braahmaan Brahman's goat?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" 
> 
> "his enlightenment eludes him" 
> 
> A sign of great writing is you can read it over several times and 
find
> great new gems.
> 
> Jim, I admire your enlightenment tradition, what ever it is, for 
such
> unique view of enlightenment, distinct from any other enlightenemnt
> tradition I have encountered.
> 
> In fours short words, its almost aphorismic, to both assign
> posseionship of enlightenment to an individual "his enlightenment" 
and
> the implication that it is an individual who is enlightened,
> "enlightenment eludes him" is in such stark contrast to other
> traditions, I have to stand up and cheer that you are revealing 
some
> new yet uncovered, distinct description of the multi-cultural vast
> diversity in the use of the term enlightenemnt.  It certainly 
supports
> the thesis that many different cultures and traditions  experience
> many different things that they paradoxically all call the same 
thing
> "enlightenement".
> 
> While being  steeped in your enlightenment tradtion, you may, or 
may
> not, be aware of how other traditions use the same term -- but with
> clearly a vastly different experience attached. For example many
> eastern traditions hold that possessionship of an enlightened 
status
> makes no sense whatso ever. The phrase would never enter their 
lexicon
> because (they claim) that is not the experience. In their world, 
there
> is no possessor, no experiencer, just the commonality of all 
existence
> that pervades ones awareness. 

Absolutely correct that enlightenment can never be possessed in an 
absolute sense. What I was getting at was the process of becoming 
enlightened, which is something every individual who wishes to do 
so, takes accountability for, simply in the way they go about it.

I am using the phrase 'enlightenment eludes him' in that context.

Also, although it is true that an enlightened person is said to have 
no individuality, or as I prefer it, that the individual and 
Infinity are indistiguishable, for the benefit of being practical 
and operating in this world of relativity, and describing 
relationships in a common sense way, I use 'I' when referring to my 
experiences, states of consciousness, etc.

> 
> And they go on to hold, that an individual never becomes 
enlightened.
> Thus enlightenment "eluding an individual" again would be non-
sensical
> to these classical eastern traditions. It is the commonality of all
> existence that awakens unto itself. It has nothng to do with the
> individual. Some such traditions even hold that any sense of
> individuality is an illusion.

Please see above. I get the distinction you are making. It is valid 
to an intellectual understanding of where we 'belong' both pre and 
post enlightenment. However I am operating and expressing myself in 
a relative sense, although it is absolutely true as you point out 
that I as an individual no longer exist in the conventional sense.
 
> 
> So keep up the good work in reporting these utterly unique
> descriptions of the term enlightenemnt, from your enlightenment
> tradition, and the correspondng implied experiences that are so
> utterly different and unique compared to classical enlightenment
> traditions. 
> 
> By the way, what is your enlightenment tradition?
>
Honestly don't understand the question. TM along with self 
reflection and one pointed desire for enlightenment works for me. 
Your personal tradition may be different.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: question about Maharishi's brothers, for Paul Mason or others

[anonymousff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>
> Maharishi's Brother is said to be 97,
> alive and kicking. He was recently seen
> this past Oct 12th on victory day on the
> broadcast from the globalcountry of World
> peace. He told a friend privately that there
> is a tradition in India not to talk about a
> saints life- just aspire to be like him yourself.

MMY said the same thing of SBS. That a saints life is not in the
details. That taking a new name and all signifies the death of the
prior life. And even the details as a "swami" or monk, or teacher are
insignificant. Its the breath of Pervading Silence (or some such
allusion) is all that matters. 

Same or similar point made in aother post about the false claim that
one can never understand Maharishi. Its the "Pervading Silence" in his
life that matters. The details, which are simply spinoffs of old
karmas and the residue of samskaric imprints are unimportant. Even if
they seem odd. 

That some view that some saints have odd karma and samksaric residue
as odd, is to me quite odd. The universe and the span of time are
large. Strange things can happen in this thing we call "lives".





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- jim_flanegin wrote:
> >
> > enlightenment does not adhere 
> > to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period.
> 
> I've been given to understand that enlightenment 
> changes quite a bit from one spiritual tradition to 
> another. I'm told, for instance, that Buddhists 
> disagree with Hindus on key points, and when 
> their adherents attain end states they call awakening 
> or enlightenment, the attainees describe their 
> experiences differently from one another but 
> consistent with their traditions.

That is my experience as well. It's as if the myth
of enlightenment that members of a tradition grew
up with becomes by default the language they use
to express the inexpressible.

> Native Americans have no such states in their 
> traditions, suggesting enlightenment is not 
> something that all traditions recognize.

I have spent time with Yaqui shamans and read a 
bit of Native American traditions, and I have to
agree with you. The quest for power, yes. The 
quest for altered states of consciousness, yes.
The quest for an impeccable life, yes. But it's 
tough to find an analogue for enlightenment as 
we know it from Eastern traditions.

> View determines fruit, as Vaj quoted a master 
> as saying. Or as Dana Sawyer says, precept 
> determines percept.

I have to agree. That which one expects seems to
color awakening into the unexpected. The experience
it what it is, but when it comes to describing or
interpreting it, one's previously-established 
view (carried over from and structured in ignorance)
seems to become the default.
 
> I'm not sure if I'm disagreeeing with you here, Jim. 
> I don't know enough about either side of the discussion. 
> I'm simply expressing some cognitive dissonance with 
> the statement that enlightenment does not adhere to 
> any tradition.

I don't feel any cognitive dissonance, but that
may be because I've had occasional flashes of 
enlightened states, *and* I've had decades of
indoctrination into trying to anticipate and
explain such experiences. The anticipation was
fruitless; I was waiting for what was already
present. And all of the explanations fell flat,
because they didn't do justice to the experience.
Close, but no cigar.

Still, when you're discussing cigars, you need a
language to express the differences between a 
true Havana and a cheap Baltimore Stogie. Even
though *no one* you speak to will ever under-
stand the difference until they've fired up 
both. :-)







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