date:20050101

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:39:38 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[an interesting and infomative history of K&D]

You're going to keep the site up, right? I hope one day to be able to
get through all of the archives...

Thanks for providing such a great service! If it weren't for you guys,
I never would have heard of people like Michael Arnowitt and Eldon
Rathburn, and I wouldn't have been able to listen to the great (and
now infamous, I'd imagine) "John Somebody."

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

At 07:14 PM 1/1/05 +0100, Jari Williamsson wrote:
>AFAIK, Ctrl-click for articulations does nothing in Fin2003, since the 
>feature was introduced in Fin2004.

Then it's an artifact of clicking near the note! I see. No wonder it was
inconsistent!

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] K&D 500

At 04:03 PM 1/1/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
>Last year? What's happening to the show?
>Admittedly I haven't listened in a while, but I really thought it was
>great quality radio. Is a budget getting pulled or something?

Hi Brad,

There is no budget and never was any! This is entirely a volunteer gig.
We've spent the past 10 years working with composers and their music at
20-30 hours of work for David and me each, with costs out-of-pocket. We've
been able to raise money for special projects (such as our festival in
2001, and for transcription of interviews), but aside from gifts and
on-site contributions and ads, there's no regular money available at all.
At best we reimburse ourselves for about 50% of the cost of producing the
show out of gifts, but there's no salary or honoraria. Even our festival
ended with $5,000 unreimbursed on my credit cards, and the 2004 show costs
are about $1,500 behind contributions.

Fundraising has gone downhill every year as other causes (and sites) have
better resources to raise cash. It's just the two of us who do it all -- we
engineer our show (except for live concerts like today's with Elizabeth
Panzer, when we hire an extra sound engineer), arrange for guests and put
them up and feed them, and create and maintain the entire website (over
8,000 documents) and pay all the server costs when PSA doesn't come through
with their quarterly pledge (which is about half the time). David writes
the essays, I do the research on the composers, we scan and rip and upload
and download and answer hundreds of visitor queries every month. The worst
is that, as online audio pioneers, we've had to deal with four changes in
copyright laws and royalty distribution, no grandfathering. With shows
dating back to 1995, it's become just plain too much. We just received
another of many cease-and-desist orders from a disgruntled composer's
lawyers, so that's pretty much the last straw for us ... since we don't
have any lawyers -- in case you've wondered why I've taken such an interest
in copyright and intellectual property issues. :)

So we'll be on the air 10 years in May, online 10 years in September -- and
September 17 is our last show. We'll transcribe the interviews, archive the
site, probably work on a book about it.

Phew... sorry for the long response. I'll sorely miss the contact with
composers, but I'm really looking forward to September and going back to my
own composing!

Dennis

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[Finale] Broadway pit orchestras

2005-01-01 Thread Neal Schermerhorn

Hi,

To the oft-asked question "what instrumentation does ___ show use?" , check:

http://www.mtishows.com/browse.asp
http://samuelfrench.com/store/
http://www.tams-witmark.com/musical.html
http://www.rnh.com/theatre/index.html

Most of the shows are listed with instrumentations in detail.

Neal Schermerhorn

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Re: [Finale] Keyboard Shortcuts under Panther - Finale 2004b


On Jan 1, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account wrote:

I'm running 2004b under OS X 10.3.6, and while I can manage to programme the keyboard shortcuts via the Keyboard and Mouse system pref, Finale doesn't seem to be activating my selection.  To be precise I've programmed Control-P to be a shortcut for Select Partial Measures. After pressing Control-P, the menu flashes, but the item itself doesn't toggle.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?  If so, is there a solution (other than buying Quickeys or whatever)?

I don't know if you can assign a "toggle" situation like that to a keyboard shortcut.  That's a major reason I have invested in Quickeys, though I doubt if I have begun to tap its possibilities.  I have things programmed for selecting different elements in Mass Edit - chords only, for instance.  Hard to manage without this convenience, once you are used to it.

Chuck





Thanks in advance,

Matthew


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Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
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Re: [Finale] Re: Broadway (long)

On Jan 1, 2005, at 2:24 PM, John Howell wrote:

At 11:35 AM -0800 1/1/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
On Jan 1, 2005, at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Even competent ones cannot overcome the basic flaw in this system. I played in the pit of the first B'way show to use this system - "Promises, Promises." Phil Ramone was the sound designer/engineer. Phil is hardly inept but, to my ears, it was a disaster. Those seeking further discussion of this whole "amplification" issue can find the article "Department of Lesser Amplification" on my web site.

Good essay, Chuck. One-sided and polemical, of course, but that's exactly what it was intended to be.

Thank you, John - and yes, it was.

There has never been a singer better at using a mic properly and musically than Sarah Vaughn. I've backed her show, and had a chance to watch her work. She had a mic position for every pitch in her wide range and for every dynamic on every pitch.

And the same might be said for her vocal technique - different laryngal positions for different pitches and ranges - quite remarkable.

Her use of the mic was graceful and choreographic, and the sounds produced smooth and unified. Granted, I'm talking about one of the best of the best, but who else should be a role model for young singers?

Absolutely.

A mic reproduces what it hears.

Lots to consider about this. A mic doesn't hear in the same psycho-acoustic way that ear/brains do - so, the music changes, not always for the worse, but certainly not automatically better simply because some elements are louder. Mostly, microphones change problems rather than solve them, and the problems can often (not always, of course) be better addressed in other ways.

Bottom line for me: the available technologies need to be used when they need to be used, they need to be used with good taste and musical goals, and they should never be used as an end in themselves. They can be abused, and often are. But they can also be used to enhance the music, and that's when they should be used.

It would be narrow minded not to agree with this, but how often is this honored in the breech?

Chuck

Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread A-NO-NE Music

Randolph Peters / 05.1.1 / 05:45 PM wrote:
>On further reflection, the problem of crackling could be a streaming 
>issue. Direct from disk using the Kontact engine (which GPO uses) is 
>probably the culprit to bad sound. A different buffer size on the 
>interface might help. Faster hard drives can help as well, although 
>there is not a consistent relationship between disk speed and 
>performance.

Oh, I see.  GPO uses Kontact streaming.  But if it is a data I/O issue
such as caused by sample library resides on the boot volume then I
believe you would get MAS buffer error instead of crackled sound, no? 
Yes, bigger buffer size will help crackled sound problem since it
releases more CPU resources, but only when it really releases CPU.

MAS has buffer multiplier.  Prior to DP4.5, it had a serious thread
prioritizing issue on single proc machine.  This caused 128 x 4 saved CPU
much better than 1024 x 1 while multiplier was designed for multiple CA
instances so you are supposed to keep the multiplier number equals to
your CA instance, i.e., if you are using PCI-424 no matter how many I/O
boxes are connected to it, the CA instance is 1, theoretically.  DP4.5
fixed this problem.

>DP uses MAS and Audio Units (as well as VSTs if you use a third party 
>audio wrapper).

Yes, but MAS AU wrapper does not allow multiple outputs.  How would you
use GPO under AU?  If VST, which VST wrapper is another question since
AudioEase has been releasing bug fixes very frequently these days.

Anyway, to narrow the issue, another question to the original poster is
that if this crackle problem is consistent with the number of notes being
played.  If crackle gets worse at dense passage, it just needs better
CPU, or separate GPO to a dedicated machine.  It's a lot easier to do
this way.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

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[Finale] Keyboard Shortcuts under Panther - Finale 2004b

2005-01-01 Thread Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account

I'm running 2004b under OS X 10.3.6, and while I can manage to programme 
the keyboard shortcuts via the Keyboard and Mouse system pref, Finale 
doesn't seem to be activating my selection.  To be precise I've 
programmed Control-P to be a shortcut for Select Partial Measures. 
After pressing Control-P, the menu flashes, but the item itself doesn't 
toggle.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?  If so, is there a solution 
(other than buying Quickeys or whatever)?

Thanks in advance,
Matthew
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Re: [Finale] K&D 500

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:04:14 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> It's a party to start our last year on the air! 

Last year? What's happening to the show?

Admittedly I haven't listened in a while, but I really thought it was
great quality radio. Is a budget getting pulled or something?

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
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Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread David W. Fenton

On 1 Jan 2005 at 7:55, Brad Beyenhof wrote:

> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 06:39:45 -0500, dhbailey
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Michael O'Connor wrote:
> > 
> > > http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/frame_special_dvd.html?NoM
> > > ansExtndCu t
> > 
> > When giving long URLs it is polite to also state what it begins with
> > and what it ends with in case it is divided onto two lines for
> > recipients of the message.
> 
> Also helpful is http://tinyurl.com, which creates a smaller "shortcut
> URL" suitable for such situations.
> 
> I set up a TinyURL (free, permanent, and easy) for the link in
> question: http://tinyurl.com/48jad

But might I request that if you to a TinyURL you also include the 
original link. Why?

1. the original link tells you things about where you're going and 
can help you decide if it's worth your time.

2. in archived discussions, the TinyURL may someday be invalid, while 
the original URL (while also volatile) may give you enough 
information to find the original information if it ends up being 
moved elsewhere.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread David W. Fenton

On 1 Jan 2005 at 1:05, Michael O'Connor wrote:

> For each release there was a Special Extended Edition box that came
> with some sort of trinket for an extra $10. The Return of the King
> comes with a Minas Tirath box from Weta and an extra DVD "Creating The
> Lord of the Rings Symphony". This link has the info:
> 
> http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/frame_special_dvd.html?NoMansE
> xtndCu t

Damn. I saw that and thought it was *just* the trinket, which didn't 
interest me. I wish I'd read the box more closely -- I'd really like 
to see the extra DVD.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread Randolph Peters

Hiroaki Honshuku wrote:
Just for the record... clock mismatch will not
produce crackling sound but rather periodic click or pink noise.
True. The sounds are different, but equally annoying!
On further reflection, the problem of crackling could be a streaming 
issue. Direct from disk using the Kontact engine (which GPO uses) is 
probably the culprit to bad sound. A different buffer size on the 
interface might help. Faster hard drives can help as well, although 
there is not a consistent relationship between disk speed and 
performance.

I have read in discussion lists about streaming problems in Kontact. 
Maybe there is an update or something out there.
Q: What did you mean by Digital Performer plug-in?  As far as I know, GPO
does not offer MAS format.
DP uses MAS and Audio Units (as well as VSTs if you use a third party 
audio wrapper).

I hope GPO users can solve this dilemma. And please let this list 
know if any solutions are out there.

-Randolph Peters
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[Finale] Re: item belongs to which note? [wuz Time Signatures]

2005-01-01 Thread shirling & neueweise

From: Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The problem with Sibelius' implementation of this feature is that 
when you move an item far enough away from its parent, the bungee 
cord switches parents to the next closest item.
finale does this as well with note-attached smart shapes: when moving 
only one end of the shape it will jump to a neighbouring note when it 
gets too close.

jef
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Re: [Finale] Re: Broadway (long)

2005-01-01 Thread John Howell

At 11:35 AM -0800 1/1/05, Chuck Israels wrote:
On Jan 1, 2005, at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even competent ones cannot overcome the basic flaw in this system. 
I played in the pit of the first B'way show to use this system - 
"Promises, Promises."  Phil Ramone was the sound designer/engineer. 
Phil is hardly inept but, to my ears, it was a disaster.  Those 
seeking further discussion of this whole "amplification" issue can 
find the article "Department of Lesser Amplification" on my web site.
Good essay, Chuck.  One-sided and polemical, of course, but that's 
exactly what it was intended to be.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say.  We had a good and 
growing jazz program here, both instrumental and vocal, until a 
series of incompetent state administrations and idiots in state 
government trashed the state budget, and universities had to deal 
with immediate and crippling budget cuts.  A good program, as I said, 
but I had to stop going to any of the performances.  Even the vocal 
recitals, which were done in a 300-seat Recital Salon with an 
excellent acoustic for classical recitals.  With a jazz trio of 
acoustic grand, bass and drums, every performer was so heavily 
amplified that it hurt my ears and I had to leave.  There's no 
question but that that was abuse, abuse of the music and of the 
audience.

Same thing with our jazz band concerts.  An ensemble that grew up to 
balance acoustically in ballrooms was festooned with so much 
amplification technology that I, again, couldn't stand the sound 
pressure level.

But I would also argue that there are situations in which sound 
reinforcement can be considered an improvement, and others in which 
it is, for better or for worse, necessary.  I know, it's easy to 
argue that performances shouldn't be attempted in such situations, 
but when there are good reasons to perform in those situations the 
technology has to be used, and the question becomes how to use it 
effectively.  An extreme situation is one like an Olympics opening 
ceremony, where the first consideration has to be how to overcome the 
time lag over long distances.  It gets awfully tempting to use studio 
pre-recording in that kind of situation, because trying to do it 
live, even with the best amplification equipment, presents problems 
that in the past simply couldn't be solved.

Personal history:  I directed The All American College Singers shows 
at Disneyland (summer '78) and Walt Disney World (summer '79).  Those 
were the only two shows by that ensemble or by the professional Kids 
of the Kingdom ensemble that were NOT done with prerecorded vocal 
tracks.  I understand management's reasoning:  a guest might see a 
show only once, or might hear part of it while walking by, so there 
can never be a bad show.  So, prerecord it (and remember that these 
were movie people, who deal with illusion on a daily basis).  But 
there's always a choice of how much live sound and how much track to 
use.  At Disneyland, where the choreographers basically supervised 
the shows, they used about 90% tracks for the Kids of the Kingdom. 
At WDW, where the head of live entertainment was, himself, a former 
studio singer, they used about 30% tracks, and the singers were 
choreographed to allow them to sing everything live.

More personal history:  When the first (Wurlitzer) electric pianos 
came out in the late 50s, I hated them.  I hated the tinkly sound 
that came nowhere close to the sound of a "real" piano.  (I also 
hated having to lug one all over the Far East on tour with a small 
unit of the U.S. Air Force Band!)  It wasn't until I heard what Chick 
Corea was doing with the Rhodes, later in the '60s, that I finally 
realized that the electric piano wasn't just a poor substitute for an 
acoustic piano.  It was a brand new instrument that produced sounds 
quite different from those of an acoustic piano.  Once I accepted 
that, I had no problem with them.

The same exact thing is true for the use of amplification by a jazz 
singer.  When it's done simply to make the singer loud, it's wrong. 
But when it allows the singer to produce sounds and subtleties that 
are new and different from what an acoustic singer can produce, I can 
accept that as good music making.  And please note that I'm speaking 
strictly about jazz at this point.

There has never been a singer better at using a mic properly and 
musically than Sarah Vaughn.  I've backed her show, and had a chance 
to watch her work.  She had a mic position for every pitch in her 
wide range and for every dynamic on every pitch.  Her use of the mic 
was graceful and choreographic, and the sounds produced smooth and 
unified.  Granted, I'm talking about one of the best of the best, but 
who else should be a role model for young singers?

A mic reproduces what it hears.  (And yes, the system is going to 
introduce distortion, no matter how good it is, but that isn't my 
point just now.)  It is going to hear subtlties in a voice that can't

Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

David Froom wrote:
To test GPO, though, I am trying to put into DP Beethoven's 3rd symphony
(Scherzo).  Unless I run it dry, without any reverb, I get processor/ram
crackles.  It doesn't fail, but it just makes awful crackling sounds during
the fuller sections.  
I'm not on Mac but have you tried "capture to audio" in GPO Studio 1.2? 
Does that also produce problems?

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

2005-01-01 Thread Noel Stoutenburg

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz noted:
Editing such stuff is maddening when I've forgotten the tricks I've used. 

and when working on a large document, especially one that I suspect I 
may need to revisit again in the future, I have taken to creating a 
"log" file, for the purpose of detailing exactly these tricks.  Store 
the log file in the same folder as the finale files.  Although now that 
I think about it, the only reason I can think of not to do this in the 
document itself is if the number and complexity of the tricks is such 
that you might exceed the size of the "text-block" subspace.  If this is 
not the case, then why not define the very first pages of the document 
as a log, beginning with the actual document on such later page number 
(2, or 5, or ???) as needed?

Have to think about this some more.
ns
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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread A-NO-NE Music

Randolph Peters / 05.1.1 / 00:48 PM wrote:

>Here is one thing to check. (It may not be the only thing.) Your 
>sound card/interface/whatever might need a different setting for 
>clock, word clock, buffer size, or even sample rate. This is often 
>the cause of that crackling sound you speak of.

Just for the record, and I mean no disrespect, clock mismatch will not
produce crackling sound but rather periodic click or pink noise.  I am
not sure what you meant about word clock, however.  Sample rate mismatch
simply do not produce any sound in the original poster's case.

And Finale even doesn't offer hardware configuration.  Finale only talks
to CA instance created by OSX AMS.  In another word, Finale cannot see
interface directly.

I have no experience with GPO but I have experiences with software
sampler/synth.  Here are some questions to the original poster:

Q: What version of DP?  Until DP4.5, it had problem with single proc
machine like yours.

Q: What is your audio interface?

Q: What did you mean by Digital Performer plug-in?  As far as I know, GPO
does not offer MAS format.

Q: How Finale instantiate GPO?

In any case, running software sampler (and I don't believe GPO streams,
or does it?) running on single proc 733MHz is quite tough.  I run all my
virtual instruments on separate machines so my main machine won't choke up.

Oh, and if you are running GPO sample library from your boot volume, that
would cause problems, I'd think.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

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Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread laloba2

Btw, an British composer I know composed the music for a couple of 
Hollywood movies in the 70s. He said that "Hollywood rules" forced a 
composer to have an orchestrator even if that person isn't used (in 
cases where the composer orchestrate him/herself, which my fried 
did). Was it really like that? Or perhaps it still is like that?
I'm not aware of any "rules" that require a composer to have an 
orchestrator.  I'm thinking that the producers/directors may have 
wanted your friend to have an orchestrator in place if things got 
tight with time.  While I know of instances where a composer has done 
all of the orchestration themselves, it is the exception rather than 
the rule just because of the huge amount of work that is involved in 
scoring a film along with the tight deadlines.

Best,
Karen
--
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[Finale] Stretching expressions

2005-01-01 Thread Aaron Sherber

Hi all,
I have a score in which I want to put something like 
"accel.poco.a.poco" over several measures. If I place this as a 
score expression, it won't stretch over a system break. That is, if the 
expression begins in a measure at the end of a system, it will just run off 
the edge of the page.

On the other hand, if I do this (or something like it) with the custom line 
tool, it will stretch over a system break -- but I can't assign it to a 
staff list. What I want is for it to display over the flute and violin 1 
staves in the score, but over all staves in extracted parts.

I know that one option is to use the custom line tool and place it in the 
two staves in the score, and then go through and temporarily copy it to 
other staves before extracting parts, but since I have several such 
instances, this seems like a lot of work.

Am I missing another option?
Robert, could Mass Copy be refined such that I could choose *specific* 
smart shapes to copy? Then I could do this all in one pass instead of 
instance by instance.

Plugin developers, is this a good candidate for a different plugin? 
Something like "select a smart shape, select a staff list, copy the shape 
to the staves in the list"?

Thanks,
Aaron.
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Re: [Finale] Fwd: Who are you?

2005-01-01 Thread Raymond Horton

Tell us a little about Lou Harrison, would you?  I've always thought his 
music is fascinating. 

RBH
Daniel Wolf wrote:
I'm a composer, sometimes doing sound installations, film 
orchestrations, and frequently writing about music. Born in southern 
California, my academic traveling papers are from Santa Cruz (BA) and 
Wesleyan (MA, PhD), composition study with Gordon Mumma, Lou Harrison, 
Alvin Lucier, and La Monte Young, studies in musical tuning with Erv 
Wilson (so I come from the experimental side of the new music 
spectrum). I lived and worked in Frankfurt, Germany from 1989 to 2000, 
since 2000 in Budapest, and will return to Frankfurt in mid-2005.  My 
first notation program was homemade, written in Forth and then 
Postscript, then I moved to Masterscore on my Atari ST, and to Finale 
in the late 90's.  I now have Finale, Turandot, and Harmony Assistant 
running on my Windows HD and  Lilypond on the Linux side.

Daniel Wolf
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[Finale] Re: Broadway

2005-01-01 Thread John Howell

At 2:10 PM -0500 1/1/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi again,
[snip]
Unfortunately, the public
has had years of listening to canned music and less and less music 
education in
the school systems; also they go to shows where the orchestra is no longer in
an open orchestra pit but covered or even in another room, and the sound is
mangled through a sound-board and the ineptness of incompetent
sound-technicians.
Very interesting observation.  In my large music history class for 
non-majors, I require a minimum of one Concert Review, and specify 
that if it's of musical theater, opera or ballet, there must be live 
music.

So, does an orchestra in another room, heard only through sound 
equipment, deserve being classified as "live"?

If I had to rule on this, I would say no, it is not.  It may 
simultaneous, and it is being played by live musicians, but I want my 
students to hear theater as it's meant to be heard, acoustic 
instruments making their own natural sounds, not filtered and 
(badly!) balanced through a mixing board.  And electronic instruments 
balanced to the acoustic instruments, not the other way around. 
Recording is one art form.  Live performance is a different art form.

Granted, it's more and more likely that the singers on stage will be 
wearing mics, and will only be heard through amplification.  At our 
community level, we wouldn't think of asking our singers to try to 
belt over the orchestra.  They don't have the voices for it and they 
don't have the training for it.  Under these circumstances, it would 
be silly not to take advantage of the available technology.  But I am 
one who has fought against using any amplification at all in the 
orchestra pit.  If we have weak violins in a given summer (and we 
have had!), so be it.  Amplified weak violins would NOT be an 
improvement!!

But in terms of the big picture, what's happening now is likely to 
keep happening, and the producers will eventually get what they want, 
and musical theater will become a very different art form in the 
process.  From what I've personally seen, the AFofM lost their way 
back in the 1960s, when local officers and secretaries were almost 
always old jazz guys who ignored the rock 'n' rollers because they 
weren't very good musicians.  And they weren't!!!  But that changed, 
and sometime during the '70s or '80s rock became middle-of-the-road, 
along with its electronic amplification.  Why do I say that?  Look at 
the bands hired to play for wedding receptions and dinner dances, 
about as middle-of-the-road as gigs can get!

And having lost its influence over an entire generation of musicians, 
the union was totally unprepared to deal with the DJs who gradually 
but inexorably have taken over from the soft rock bands at those same 
wedding receptions and dinner dances.  I don't like it, but there it 
is.  To millions of music "consumers," canned music IS music, and 
Steve is correct that many of them have never heard music in any 
other context.  (Well, rock concerts of course, but that's for a 
different thread, and besides, the object is to sound just like your 
records, only with more distortion!)

John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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Re: [Finale] Re: Broadway


On Jan 1, 2005, at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

they go to shows where the orchestra is no longer in 
an open orchestra pit but covered or even in another room, and the sound is 
mangled through a sound-board and the ineptness of incompetent 
sound-technicians. 


Even competent ones cannot overcome the basic flaw in this system.  I played in the pit of the first B'way show to use this system - "Promises, Promises."  Phil Ramone was the sound designer/engineer.  Phil is hardly inept but, to my ears, it was a disaster.  Those seeking further discussion of this whole "amplification" issue can find the article "Department of Lesser Amplification" on my web site.

Chuck



Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
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[Finale] Re: Broadway

2005-01-01 Thread SteveSTCC

Hi again,
Broadway composers/orchestrators are given direction from the producers; I 
believe they are told about the style and the number of players. I don't know 
if 
producers get into exactly which instruments to use. The AFofM contract 
specifies only the *number* of players, which relates to the particular (size 
of) 
theater. Every few years when the contract is re-negotiated, the producers try 
(and succeed) in reducing the minimum-number requirements. Also they can 
prepare a show and cite a "special situation" clause to try to go below the 
minimum, and argue it in arbitration (some cases won, some lost). And yes, 
there is 
often a "cut list" so after the reviews are in and the album recorded, some 
players are let go. The largest problem is the increasing use (or desire of the 
producers for the use) of the "virtual-orchestra-machine" which is a 
combination of a sampler, hard disk to record, and variable playback. Producers 
want to 
use this instead of paying for live musicians. The AFofM is trying to keep musi
cians working, naturally, and also see this machine as a perversion of the 
artform (musical theater) to be disallowed: musical theater is live actors and 
live musicians, the 2 basic components. Outside of this, I believe the union 
has no problem with other choices in orchestration. Unfortunately, the public 
has had years of listening to canned music and less and less music education in 
the school systems; also they go to shows where the orchestra is no longer in 
an open orchestra pit but covered or even in another room, and the sound is 
mangled through a sound-board and the ineptness of incompetent 
sound-technicians. 

snip:
<
Subject: RE: [Finale] Broadway pit orchestras
Ah, but here's the other side of the question. Do Broadway composers still
have to write for a set ensemble? I recall that there was a union action
about this some time ago when composers were leaning more towards electric
instruments (not the orchestra in a box, but guitars, keyboards, etc.).
Mike>>
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Re: [Finale] Methods of composition

2005-01-01 Thread NRaspa

I, too, use a pencil and paper to compose.  I tried using the computer once 
however I found that I was distracted from the composition process by the 
technology.  I do use the piano as part of the process, but even that is only 
to 
check things out after I write.

Nick Raspa
NJR Music Enterprises
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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread Harold Owen

Hello David.
I've just started using GPO with Finale and have heard the same 
crackles. One thing that seems to help is to have Finale on the 
screen and hide all other open applications, including GPO itself. 
Turning down the knob for "Quality" on the Abience plug-in helps as 
well. With larger Finale files it seems to help to run playback set 
to Non-scrolling.

It will be interesting to see what develops as more and more of us 
begin to use GPO.

Hal
Hello,
I hope to tap some wisdom about dealing with Garritan Personal Orchestra.  I
just got it and have been fooling around with it.  It is really fine --
better at orchestral instruments than Reason (which itself is rather good).
And relatively easy to learn.
However, I am having some problems getting it to work without making
crackling sounds, which, I suspect, are memory/processor issues.
I am on a Mac, using GPO within Digital Performer.  It works rather well, by
the way, within Finale, especially with the new version of Finale having an
"optimize for GPO" setting (which reassigns some velocity/continuous control
data).  There are also some issues with GPO and its use of CC #64 for tenuto
-- which means it can't be used for sustain on piano.
GPO recommends at least 1GB of RAM.  I have 1.5 GB.  They ask for a minimum
of a G4 733 MHz processor.  I have a G4 1.33 MHz.
GPO's stand alone player is rather useless for me, with only one instrument
at a time, and no sequencing.  Might be great for live playing, but I don't
do that. But they offer a Digital Performer plug-in, and also a VST plugin,
and a studio player for use within Finale.
For a few chamber situations I have tried it in, it works very well.  I am
working right now on something with saxophone, so I am using a good
saxophone patch within Reason, and using GPO for the other two instruments
(piano and bassoon), running the whole thing with Digital Performer.  No
problems.
To test GPO, though, I am trying to put into DP Beethoven's 3rd symphony
(Scherzo).  Unless I run it dry, without any reverb, I get processor/ram
crackles.  It doesn't fail, but it just makes awful crackling sounds during
the fuller sections.  I have checked some of the GPO forums, and I hear this
is a problem even with faster G5s and 2GB+ of memory.  I have tried some
recommended tricks -- reducing polyphony, simplifying the orchestra.  I have
tried bypassing GPO's "ambience" plugin (nice sound, but seems to be a huge
memory hog), using Apple's (inferior) AU reverb plugin instead.  I also
tried messing with DP's hardware configuration settings (these are very
confusing to me, but I think I have good settings).
Are there any GPO-on-a-Mac experts out there who might be able to help me
get more performance out of GPO right now, especially for orchestral things?
Maybe we Mac folks need to wait until we can all have 2-3 MHz dual processor
G5s with 3-4 GB of RAM?  Or hope that GPO comes up with a better way of
managing its demands, especially on a Mac?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
David Froom
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--
Harold Owen
2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen
FAX: (509) 461-3608
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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Particulary when, say, an
articulation has been pulled considerably out of position (off the
measure), ctrl-clicking the symbol does nothing to show its connection. You
can't even get its handle without knowing which note it was once attached
to. (F2K3).
AFAIK, Ctrl-click for articulations does nothing in Fin2003, since the 
feature was introduced in Fin2004. And in recent Finale versions, all 
articulation handles show all the time, so what you're experiencing 
don't happen any more.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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[Finale] K&D 500

Just one quick note as I run off to the studios... Kalvos & Damian's 500th
show is today, and it is five hours (2:30-7:30 US Eastern Time) starting in
about 90 minutes from now. We'll be playing lots of stuff never heard
anywhere else, and we have Elizabeth Panzer as guest, with harp. She'll be
performing, and we'll be doing improvs as well. It's a party to start our
last year on the air! http://kalvos.org/

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

2005-01-01 Thread Randolph Peters

At 6:26 PM +0100 1/1/05, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 07:51 AM 1/1/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
What you you mean by "rubber-bands"?
If you're having diffifulty figuring out which tool you used to create
a particular item, the Selection Tool works wonders.

To find out what item some other item is attached to and change the
ownership if necessary. That articulation -- what note does it belong to?
 > [snip]
In Windows you use the Ctrl key for this (don't know about which Mac 
key). Ctrl-click on a handle to show what measure/note and 
articulation/expression is attached to.

On the Mac it is option-click to show what something is attached to.
-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread Randolph Peters

At 11:44 AM -0500 1/1/05, David Froom wrote:
Hello,
I hope to tap some wisdom about dealing with Garritan Personal Orchestra.  I
just got it and have been fooling around with it.  It is really fine --
better at orchestral instruments than Reason (which itself is rather good).
And relatively easy to learn.
However, I am having some problems getting it to work without making
crackling sounds, which, I suspect, are memory/processor issues.
Here is one thing to check. (It may not be the only thing.) Your 
sound card/interface/whatever might need a different setting for 
clock, word clock, buffer size, or even sample rate. This is often 
the cause of that crackling sound you speak of.

You probably have checked these things, but sometimes some 
applications change the settings without your knowledge.

-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

At 06:26 PM 1/1/05 +0100, Jari Williamsson wrote:
>In Windows you use the Ctrl key for this (don't know about which Mac 
>key). Ctrl-click on a handle to show what measure/note and 
>articulation/expression is attached to.

It's too clumsy, it only does one at a time, and it's not reliable. That's
why I've been suggesting rubber bands for a long time ... turn them on, and
all the connections (including no, connections, poor connections, and
off-page connections) jump right out. Particulary when, say, an
articulation has been pulled considerably out of position (off the
measure), ctrl-clicking the symbol does nothing to show its connection. You
can't even get its handle without knowing which note it was once attached
to. (F2K3).

Dennis

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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

2005-01-01 Thread Christopher Smith

Sibelius has this; a "bungee cord" that shows up in grey attaching the 
item to its parent. The problem with Sibelius' implementation of this 
feature is that when you move an item far enough away from its parent, 
the bungee cord switches parents to the next closest item. At least, it 
would be a problem for ME. Some might consider this to be a useful 
feature.

Christopher
On Jan 1, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 07:51 AM 1/1/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
What you you mean by "rubber-bands"?
If you're having diffifulty figuring out which tool you used to create
a particular item, the Selection Tool works wonders.
To find out what item some other item is attached to and change the
ownership if necessary. That articulation -- what note does it belong 
to?
Where do the slur ends attach (or not)? Is that fermata over the 
barline
hooked to...? That expression -- whose is it (which would fix lots of
incorrect smart shape assignment errors in dense scores)? The symbol 
that's
off the page -- where did it originate? The graphics element that's not
attached to a page (the trouble if it's an 'inline' graphic vs. a
final-layout graphic)? After a while, especially with scores that have 
lots
of graphical presentation, text items, or (apparently) floating
expressions, it becomes very difficult to find the parent of a given 
symbol.

A nice option to turn on rubber bands would be great -- a light line in
color of choice showing the parent item when a given tool is selected.
This goes to the whole issue of ownership in Finale -- missing visual 
layer
options (send backward/to back, bring forward/to front), affixing 
groups
together (symbols that do not change position with respect to each 
other
and the parent), identifying musical lines (vs. layers or parts or 
voices)
that would give a true part orientation that Finale lacks (an option to
'show line' would be dandy, so that everything but that line and its
assigned 'stuff' fades to gray (but stays visible)), etc.

Dennis

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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 07:51 AM 1/1/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
What you you mean by "rubber-bands"?
If you're having diffifulty figuring out which tool you used to create
a particular item, the Selection Tool works wonders.

To find out what item some other item is attached to and change the
ownership if necessary. That articulation -- what note does it belong to?
> [snip]
In Windows you use the Ctrl key for this (don't know about which Mac 
key). Ctrl-click on a handle to show what measure/note and 
articulation/expression is attached to.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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Re: [Finale] TAN: GPO

Hi David,

I'm waiting to buy GPO until Gary comes out with the jazz instrument sounds that I use most often, so I have no experience with the software to share. However, when I found Gary's address on the GPO web site, and it was listed as Orcas Island, WA, which I see from my living room window (and which you must have seen when you were here), I thought an email hello was in order. So I sent a note asking about the scheduled delivery date for the jazz instruments (sometime this Spring, BTW), and Gary eventually answered, so perhaps he would respond to this question, if you forwarded it to him.

Happy New Year,

Chuck

On Jan 1, 2005, at 8:44 AM, David Froom wrote:

Hello,
I hope to tap some wisdom about dealing with Garritan Personal Orchestra. I
just got it and have been fooling around with it. It is really fine --
better at orchestral instruments than Reason (which itself is rather good).
And relatively easy to learn.

However, I am having some problems getting it to work without making
crackling sounds, which, I suspect, are memory/processor issues.

I am on a Mac, using GPO within Digital Performer. It works rather well, by
the way, within Finale, especially with the new version of Finale having an
"optimize for GPO" setting (which reassigns some velocity/continuous control
data). There are also some issues with GPO and its use of CC #64 for tenuto
-- which means it can't be used for sustain on piano.

GPO recommends at least 1GB of RAM. I have 1.5 GB. They ask for a minimum
of a G4 733 MHz processor. I have a G4 1.33 MHz.

GPO's stand alone player is rather useless for me, with only one instrument
at a time, and no sequencing. Might be great for live playing, but I don't
do that. But they offer a Digital Performer plug-in, and also a VST plugin,
and a studio player for use within Finale.

For a few chamber situations I have tried it in, it works very well. I am
working right now on something with saxophone, so I am using a good
saxophone patch within Reason, and using GPO for the other two instruments
(piano and bassoon), running the whole thing with Digital Performer. No
problems.

To test GPO, though, I am trying to put into DP Beethoven's 3rd symphony
(Scherzo). Unless I run it dry, without any reverb, I get processor/ram
crackles. It doesn't fail, but it just makes awful crackling sounds during
the fuller sections. I have checked some of the GPO forums, and I hear this
is a problem even with faster G5s and 2GB+ of memory. I have tried some
recommended tricks -- reducing polyphony, simplifying the orchestra. I have
tried bypassing GPO's "ambience" plugin (nice sound, but seems to be a huge
memory hog), using Apple's (inferior) AU reverb plugin instead. I also
tried messing with DP's hardware configuration settings (these are very
confusing to me, but I think I have good settings).

Are there any GPO-on-a-Mac experts out there who might be able to help me
get more performance out of GPO right now, especially for orchestral things?

Maybe we Mac folks need to wait until we can all have 2-3 MHz dual processor
G5s with 3-4 GB of RAM? Or hope that GPO comes up with a better way of
managing its demands, especially on a Mac?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

David Froom

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RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread Michael O'Connor

Sorry about that!

Mike

*
Michael O'Connor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
Of dhbailey
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:40 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

Michael O'Connor wrote:

> For each release there was a Special Extended Edition box that came with
> some sort of trinket for an extra $10. The Return of the King comes with a
> Minas Tirath box from Weta and an extra DVD "Creating The Lord of the
Rings
> Symphony". This link has the info:
>
>
http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/frame_special_dvd.html?NoMansExtndCu
> t
>

When giving long URLs it is polite to also state what it begins with and
what it ends with in case it is divided onto two lines for recipients of
the message.

In this case it begins with http:// and ends with ExtndCut -- that final
t was on a second line on my screen so the link didn't work when I
clicked on it.

--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Finale] TAN: GPO

2005-01-01 Thread David Froom

Hello,
I hope to tap some wisdom about dealing with Garritan Personal Orchestra.  I
just got it and have been fooling around with it.  It is really fine --
better at orchestral instruments than Reason (which itself is rather good).
And relatively easy to learn.

However, I am having some problems getting it to work without making
crackling sounds, which, I suspect, are memory/processor issues.

I am on a Mac, using GPO within Digital Performer.  It works rather well, by
the way, within Finale, especially with the new version of Finale having an
"optimize for GPO" setting (which reassigns some velocity/continuous control
data).  There are also some issues with GPO and its use of CC #64 for tenuto
-- which means it can't be used for sustain on piano.

GPO recommends at least 1GB of RAM.  I have 1.5 GB.  They ask for a minimum
of a G4 733 MHz processor.  I have a G4 1.33 MHz.

GPO's stand alone player is rather useless for me, with only one instrument
at a time, and no sequencing.  Might be great for live playing, but I don't
do that. But they offer a Digital Performer plug-in, and also a VST plugin,
and a studio player for use within Finale.

For a few chamber situations I have tried it in, it works very well.  I am
working right now on something with saxophone, so I am using a good
saxophone patch within Reason, and using GPO for the other two instruments
(piano and bassoon), running the whole thing with Digital Performer.  No
problems.

To test GPO, though, I am trying to put into DP Beethoven's 3rd symphony
(Scherzo).  Unless I run it dry, without any reverb, I get processor/ram
crackles.  It doesn't fail, but it just makes awful crackling sounds during
the fuller sections.  I have checked some of the GPO forums, and I hear this
is a problem even with faster G5s and 2GB+ of memory.  I have tried some
recommended tricks -- reducing polyphony, simplifying the orchestra.  I have
tried bypassing GPO's "ambience" plugin (nice sound, but seems to be a huge
memory hog), using Apple's (inferior) AU reverb plugin instead.  I also
tried messing with DP's hardware configuration settings (these are very
confusing to me, but I think I have good settings).

Are there any GPO-on-a-Mac experts out there who might be able to help me
get more performance out of GPO right now, especially for orchestral things?

Maybe we Mac folks need to wait until we can all have 2-3 MHz dual processor
G5s with 3-4 GB of RAM?  Or hope that GPO comes up with a better way of
managing its demands, especially on a Mac?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

David Froom


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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

At 07:51 AM 1/1/05 -0800, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
>What you you mean by "rubber-bands"?
>If you're having diffifulty figuring out which tool you used to create
>a particular item, the Selection Tool works wonders.

To find out what item some other item is attached to and change the
ownership if necessary. That articulation -- what note does it belong to?
Where do the slur ends attach (or not)? Is that fermata over the barline
hooked to...? That expression -- whose is it (which would fix lots of
incorrect smart shape assignment errors in dense scores)? The symbol that's
off the page -- where did it originate? The graphics element that's not
attached to a page (the trouble if it's an 'inline' graphic vs. a
final-layout graphic)? After a while, especially with scores that have lots
of graphical presentation, text items, or (apparently) floating
expressions, it becomes very difficult to find the parent of a given symbol.

A nice option to turn on rubber bands would be great -- a light line in
color of choice showing the parent item when a given tool is selected.

This goes to the whole issue of ownership in Finale -- missing visual layer
options (send backward/to back, bring forward/to front), affixing groups
together (symbols that do not change position with respect to each other
and the parent), identifying musical lines (vs. layers or parts or voices)
that would give a true part orientation that Finale lacks (an option to
'show line' would be dandy, so that everything but that line and its
assigned 'stuff' fades to gray (but stays visible)), etc.

Dennis

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Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 06:39:45 -0500, dhbailey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/frame_special_dvd.html?NoMansExtndCu
> > t
> 
> When giving long URLs it is polite to also state what it begins with and
> what it ends with in case it is divided onto two lines for recipients of
> the message.

Also helpful is http://tinyurl.com, which creates a smaller "shortcut
URL" suitable for such situations.

I set up a TinyURL (free, permanent, and easy) for the link in question:
http://tinyurl.com/48jad

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 07:04:51 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> Editing such stuff is maddening when I've forgotten the tricks I've used. I
> assume Finale still doesn't use rubber-bands on its handles? That was
> something I'd long wished for, so I could find what belonged to what in
> messy work such as heavily graphical scores.

What you you mean by "rubber-bands"?

If you're having diffifulty figuring out which tool you used to create
a particular item, the Selection Tool works wonders.

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
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Re: [Finale] OT: Who are you?

2005-01-01 Thread Barbara Touburg

Barbara Touburg, b. 28 may 1959 (45 years old, exactly in the middle), 
d. not yet :-)

On 1/1/2005 6:33 AM, Carl Dershem wrote:
George Boziwick (b. 1954)
Have you noticed the clustering of people here by age?  There appears to 
be a definite peak in the 40's and 50's.

I may have mis-perceived this, but ...
cd
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Re: [Finale] RE: MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread Christopher Smith

On Jan 1, 2005, at 8:05 AM, David Hage wrote:
Hi Guys,
I will be a freelance librarian and copyist for the upcoming Start 
Wars film
recording in London with LSO. I have worked with John  Williams on 
several
films in London over the past few years.
He delivers his scores by hand on the "American" style sketch paper 
i.e. The
stuff that is just too big to be photocopied on a regular European 
copier
:-).
His sketches are indeed detailed, but in my opinion still require an
orchestrator of considerable skill (which he has)
to get their balance right, these score are almost always delivered
handwritten and immaculate.
As to credits, the orchestrator is always credited on the score 
itself, and
on the film credits, as are the copyist/librarians :-)

As far as I am aware nobody in the music production team on a film has 
the
title "clerk", and none of use own a small green peaked eye-shield

Happy New Year
Dave Hage
Dakota Music Ltd

Thank you for this detail. This restores my faith in his creativity, 
work ethic, and honesty, and furthermore jives with what I had 
previously heard about JW's work.

John Howell, I just read your long and heartfelt reply to my questions 
on this issue, and will be answering soon.

Christopher
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OT: LOTR DVDs (was: Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism)

David W. Fenton wrote:
Which edition is that? I have the three extended editions, but I 
would have preferred a boxed set of the three together.
It's the gift set editions (extra DVD + statue). Each gift set had an 
extra DVD (Fellowship had the Tolkien documentary, TTT had the extra 
Gollum DVD, and ROTK has the Howard Shore concert DVD).

IMO, the Howard Shore concert DVD is not worth the time. It's basically 
a 50 minute excerpt from a concert with some interrupts where Howard 
Shore sits in a chair and "reads" things to you that you already know in 
much more detail by looking at the original extended versions.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
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[Finale] RE: MIDI transcriptionism

2005-01-01 Thread David Hage

> I bet if you asked him, he would tell you he DOES do his own
> orchestration -- meaning that he specifies which instruments play which
> notes when.  I doubt that he would allow that his simply specifying a C
> major chord in the horns and having his "clerk" voice it would indicate
> that he isn't the one doing the orchestrating.


Hi Guys,

I will be a freelance librarian and copyist for the upcoming Start Wars film
recording in London with LSO. I have worked with John  Williams on several
films in London over the past few years.
He delivers his scores by hand on the "American" style sketch paper i.e. The
stuff that is just too big to be photocopied on a regular European copier
:-). 
His sketches are indeed detailed, but in my opinion still require an
orchestrator of considerable skill (which he has)
to get their balance right, these score are almost always delivered
handwritten and immaculate.
As to credits, the orchestrator is always credited on the score itself, and
on the film credits, as are the copyist/librarians :-)

As far as I am aware nobody in the music production team on a film has the
title "clerk", and none of use own a small green peaked eye-shield

Happy New Year

Dave Hage
Dakota Music Ltd


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Re: [Finale] Time Signatures