[Finale] Show Only On Screen
Hi All, FinMac 2007c. I can't find where they moved the "Show Only On Screen" command. It used to be in the Text Menu. Please help! Ryan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Cornets are actually enjoying a bit of a renaissance on the NYC jazz scene. Dave Douglas, one of the most influential and critically acclaimed trumpet players of the past ten years, has switched from trumpet to cornet as his primary instrument. He was following in the footsteps of a lot of lesser-known but well-regarded local players -- guys like Taylor Ho Bynum, who made the switch several years ago. Of course, jazz has always had a few cornet holdouts (like Thad Jones), but I've seen a big increase in the number of dedicated jazz cornet players in NYC just over the past 4 years. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 24 Aug 2007, at 9:03 PM, John Howell wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Oh, the instrument (Eb Cornet) is available, for certain, and still standard for brass bands, as are a whole set of Bb Cornets. It is not a standard instrument in concert bands anymore. College wind ensembles could use it for historical performances if they wish, or sub an Eb trumpet, (which several of the college students will probably own) if the members of rest of the section are playing trumpets. I think we are making too much of the difference between cornets and trumpets, frankly. Do some blind tests, and I think you will often hear more difference between players than between instruments. Cornets are mellower, sweeter, and project less, but I've heard guys who can make the difference vanish, in both good and bad ways. For a look at the world in which cornets are alive and well, see the NABBA (North American Brass Band Association) website: http://www.nabba.org/ NABBA's championship is held, for the next several years, a few miles from my house at Indiana University Southeast in New Albany. Thousands of brass band members from all over the US, and from other continents as well, flock to the campus for two days every spring. The quality in the upper levels is extremely high. I sub on solo euphonium with one of the two local brass bands in the area now and then. The traditional music is nearly all British, and is great fun. Not the problems of varying instrumentation of mixed bands, as was mentioned earlier - the instrumentation is standard. (There is also a smaller nine-piece standard group, also but I have no experience with it.) Raymond Horton John Howell wrote: At 11:15 PM -0400 8/23/07, Raymond Horton wrote: Missing the Eb soprano cornet is a problem for modern band with these older works, but with more woodwinds in the modern band this can often suffice. I've been working a lot with British-style brass bands, lately, and the Eb soprano cornets are certainly the woodwinds of those groups. Actually I just got the Fall-Winter catalog for The WoodWind & Brasswind, and took a moment to look through the trumpet-cornet-flugelhorn pages. Yes, they list many more pages of trumpets, both Bb and specialty keys, but there are several pages of cornets and several choices of Eb soprano cornets, including Schilke, which ain't chopped liver! The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] midi set up
First, make sure you have installed any drivers for your midi interface. Step by step. Go to Macintosh HD Go to Applications Go to Utilities Open Audio Midi Setup Your Midi interface should appear. Mine says Micro lite (MOTU Microlite interface) Click Add Device a keyboard thing should appear called "new external device" Click the little down arrow next to Manufacturer Select Yamaha Click the little down arrow next to Model Click DX7 Click Apply Now, on top of the DX7, drag the up arrow to the midi interface, and then do the same from the interface to the DX7 that should be it. Enjoy Robert Florence wrote: Could someone give me a step by step midi set up? I am using Mac Finale 2007. I am using an acient Yamaha DX7. It has always worked fine. I don't care about playback. I can enter notes rhythmically but they won't change pitches. Thanks, Bob Florence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On 24 Aug 2007 at 22:29, John Howell wrote: > Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying, and of course it's > possible to delete instruments from a given ensemble, but you'd have > to have a conductor who believes in doing so, and players who accept > that it is a good idea to have a few minutes off. Yes, but it's mostly not done, right? > Aaron's suggestion that it might be time for a HIP approach to > earlier band music might be just the ticket, for those interested in > that kind of thing, but that will always be a small minority. Seems like a given to me. It could make programming easier, too, though scheduling of rehearsals would be harder. That is, make up a performance from different groups of players in different ensembles -- with less music for some of the players, perhaps the groups overall could play harder music prepared in a shorter time. That's the approach we take in the NYU Collegium, where hardly anyone performs in everything (well, I almost always do, but that's because I'm a continuo and viol player both). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 9:29 PM -0400 8/24/07, David W. Fenton wrote: Now, in college-level bands, surely the tenor sax majors and many of the altos also double on soprano, so I don't see how that would be incredibly difficult to come by one player for it (just as it's not hard to put a Bb Clarinet player on Eb -- nobody can make Eb Clarinet sound good :). What, we've run out of viola jokes?!! But that's not necessarily true. The facts that all clarinets are fingered the same and that their music is transposed to be read the same does not mean that the instruments of the extended clarinet family are all the same. It stands to reason that they are not, and therefore that a potential player has to spend time learning this "new" instrument. Which is exactly what happens in our wind ensemble, because our clarinet professor insists on it. It's considered prestigious to be the person selected to play the Eb soprano. Same thing is true for the alto, bass, and lower clarinets. Takes practice. And I suspect that the orchestral players who play Eb soprano on such things as "Symphonie Fantastique" might take offense. Of course ANY clarinet in any key has to be well made and well tuned, and schools do not tend to buy the most expensive professional instruments. So it's not a matter of adding instruments to the basic ensemble but of omitting instruments that are not used in the particular piece, and substituting the closest reasonable instruments when the originals are obsolete. Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying, and of course it's possible to delete instruments from a given ensemble, but you'd have to have a conductor who believes in doing so, and players who accept that it is a good idea to have a few minutes off. Aaron's suggestion that it might be time for a HIP approach to earlier band music might be just the ticket, for those interested in that kind of thing, but that will always be a small minority. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On 24 Aug 2007 at 20:43, John Howell wrote: > As to adapting instrumentation to the music, I tried to point out that > most bands do not and cannot, with the possible exceptions of the wind > ensembles at large music schools or bands that consider themselves > truly professional. And of course among that handful of professional > bands we have to include the premier bands in each of the military > services, and they cannot blithely add instruments to order because > the players must be in the military and must be assigned to specific > bands and have their own line in the Table of Organization. But that isn't the issue -- it's not adding odd instruments at all. There's nothing odd about the instrumentation of the Fulton pieces, except that we now use different transpositions and very closely related instruments (with the exception of cornets, which I would consider a hugely different instrument because of the completely different bore, which has huge consequences for both tone, articulation and agility). It's not a matter of needing to add a BBb contrabass clarinet or a bass sax, but a matter of using a C picc instead of Db, F horns instead of Db and so forth. Now, in college-level bands, surely the tenor sax majors and many of the altos also double on soprano, so I don't see how that would be incredibly difficult to come by one player for it (just as it's not hard to put a Bb Clarinet player on Eb -- nobody can make Eb Clarinet sound good :). So it's not a matter of adding instruments to the basic ensemble but of omitting instruments that are not used in the particular piece, and substituting the closest reasonable instruments when the originals are obsolete. That's what I don't see as happening, whereas these groups surely have the resources to do so. > And by the way, I agree with you that the best college wind ensembles > should be included at the professional level, but only because there > are so few truly professional wind ensemble, especially touring > ensembles in existence today. Again, there's a world of difference > between the band world and the orchestra world. I see wind ensemble as a different world, chamber music-oriented (one on a part, like an orchestral wind section), instead of massed instruments, so that's completely different -- they are always ad hoc in instrumentation, more or less. But I'm asking about something else entirely. Maybe I'm not explaining it well? Of course, I certainly believe that all new editions of these old works should include both the original parts and all the alternates that make it playable by standard modern bands. In the case of the Fulton, I just don't see any severe adaptation necessary (other than the cornet/trumpet thing, which is endemic in almost all historical band music, even that which remains in the repertory, like Sousa), and surely there's a host of pieces for which that is the case. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On 24 Aug 2007 at 19:26, Raymond Horton wrote: > I'll go out on a limb and say that _generally_ Fulton, Sousa, and > modern university and pro bands play/played pieces like marches with > whomever they have/had present at the time. The instrumentation > varied for Sousa, certainly, over the years, and I imagine he did > much re-scoring of even his more serious works and transcriptions to > suit his changing band, rather than send players off-stage or see > them sit idle. > > This is the blessing and curse of the bands, as we have been > discussing. I'm very, very well aware of it, having spent 15 years as assistant music director of the Illinois Premier Boys State Band. As you can well imagine, when you have all boys, you lack certain instruments. We were lucky to have 3 clarinets, or even one flute, but we had thousands of trumpets and trombones and drummers. Sometimes we had 1 clarinet, 6 alto saxes, 3 tenor saxes, 2 horns, 25 trumpets, 8 trombones, 2 baritones, 1 euphonium, 1 tube, 12 drummers. Try to make *that* sound good. I learned a lot about orchestrating for such ensembles (I was the de facto staff arranger -- learned to turn them out from scratch in about 4 hours of work, including copying parts, then rewriting and recopying parts after the first rehearsal to fix what I got wrong; it was a *great* learning experience). But that was a different kind of situation than pro-level groups (which for me includes the top-level university bands). I wish more of those organizations would take a historical approach to older music -- it would certainly provide much more variety of texture and sound on concerts. And I think it would be good for talented school bands to do the same thing. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 11:15 PM -0400 8/23/07, Raymond Horton wrote: Missing the Eb soprano cornet is a problem for modern band with these older works, but with more woodwinds in the modern band this can often suffice. I've been working a lot with British-style brass bands, lately, and the Eb soprano cornets are certainly the woodwinds of those groups. Actually I just got the Fall-Winter catalog for The WoodWind & Brasswind, and took a moment to look through the trumpet-cornet-flugelhorn pages. Yes, they list many more pages of trumpets, both Bb and specialty keys, but there are several pages of cornets and several choices of Eb soprano cornets, including Schilke, which ain't chopped liver! The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 6:03 PM -0400 8/24/07, David W. Fenton wrote: Am I misinterpreting the discussion here? Is my position basically what all y'all were advocating? Or do even university-level and professional bands seldom/never adapt their instrumentation to the music they are playing? No, I don't think you're misinterpreting at all. I've commented that there is really no standard instrumentation for concert band or wind ensemble, but another way of saying almost the same thing is that there are too many standard instrumentations! In the instrument lists you quoted and suggested, the one glaring omission is a saxophone section. And in the old pieces I've examined so far, some have saxes, some don't, and for those that do you find the soprano more often than 1st and 2nd altos. As to adapting instrumentation to the music, I tried to point out that most bands do not and cannot, with the possible exceptions of the wind ensembles at large music schools or bands that consider themselves truly professional. And of course among that handful of professional bands we have to include the premier bands in each of the military services, and they cannot blithely add instruments to order because the players must be in the military and must be assigned to specific bands and have their own line in the Table of Organization. And by the way, I agree with you that the best college wind ensembles should be included at the professional level, but only because there are so few truly professional wind ensemble, especially touring ensembles in existence today. Again, there's a world of difference between the band world and the orchestra world. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] midi set up
It seems that you turned off MIDI input in Speedy Entry. J.R. > Could someone give me a step by step midi set up? > I am using Mac Finale 2007. I am using an acient Yamaha DX7. It has > always worked fine. I don't care about playback. I can enter notes > rhythmically but they won't change pitches. > > Thanks, > > Bob Florence > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] midi set up
On Aug 24, 2007, at 6:08 PM, Robert Florence wrote: Could someone give me a step by step midi set up? I am using Mac Finale 2007. I am using an acient Yamaha DX7. It has always worked fine. I don't care about playback. I can enter notes rhythmically but they won't change pitches. Bob, Sorry I can't help, but MIDI is way too finicky to troubleshoot long distance. Whenever I have MIDI problems, I follow my nose pretty much. Are you sure all your cables are good, and your software drivers for your interface are up to date? Basically, you have to determine if MIDI is getting out of the keyboard, then is it getting to the end of the first cable, then is it getting into the interface, then is it getting to the computer, etc... Restarting equipment (turn off, wait 30 seconds, turn on) is standard practice, as their hairy little electronic brains get scrambled easily. I suggest getting a knowledgeable friend over. I feel your pain. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: Size
Thanks, Vern. I tried the parameters and Redefine suggestions, but not before I performed File Maintenance (a feature I was unaware of). FM cleared up the layout problem and your suggestions returned all to normal. Thanks for the help. Still a lot to learn. Bruce Clausen - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:48 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] RE: Size If all else fails, go to the menu where you set up the Page Layout for Parts/Score (not under the File menu; I'm at work and can't remember which menu this falls under; it's the same one as you find Document Options), set all the parameters for the Score, then peform a Redefine All Pages which will wipe out all the existing page layout info (excepting any System Locks, which it will retain.) Then, do an Update, and hopefully, you will have the solution. Hi, Christopher. I've tried the (Adjust) Edit Systems fix (WinFin06' XP) you recommended but it has not worked, alas. I've noticed that on the problem pages the system handles extend well beyond the bottom of the page to about 32". I can't find a way to click/drag/edit/cajole/threaten the handles back into place. All of this takes place on systems 34-54. System 33, as you suggested, was used to edit through the end of the piece but to no avail. I'm sure it's something I've screwed up inadvertantly. Thanks for your patience and help. Bruce Clausen - Original Message - From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] RE: Size On Aug 23, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: Another version of yesterday's problem. Regarding yesterday, I had to re-adjust the right system margins page by page, but at least I got things back to normal. Ooh, you don't have to do it individually! If you select Adjust System Margins from the Page Layout menu, then click on a system you like the settings for, then in the Adjust System Margins window select "from [insert system number] to _ [leave it blank to go to the end of the document]" and hit Apply. All the systems will inherit the settings of the one you first clicked on. If you only want some settings applied, then make sure only those boxes are checked. However, if I try to adjust the pages with % Tool the measures of the final pages again are grossly oversized. I STRONGLY suggest that you don't use the % tool for resizing pages. Use the tool to resize systems instead, by clicking between the clefs of two staves. This will preserve the size and position of all your titles and other page-attached stuff, and greatly simplify your life in other ways. there are 4 ways to use the % tool 1. click a note to resize it. 2 click a staff (usually on the clef) to resize it 3 click between the clefs of two staves in the same system to resize the system USE THIS ONE 4 click in the margin of a page to resize it. You often get a dialogue box asking you the range you want to resize. Leave the second field blank to go to the end of the document. I can't seem to find a fix. I have a hunch that the problem relates to the fact that the complete score file was put together from three smaller files for the individual movements. Yes, all the original settings were preserved when you glued the works together. But, I have no idea how to fix it. See my advice about resizing system margins and the resize tool. Two steps to make your entire score the same top to bottom. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
A couple of observations. One - on those recordings, if you check the later set of recordings, (the last two sets were done in the last two weeks) you'll see the instrumentation shift a bit, as different players become available, I suppose (a few more clarinets, mainly).This type of instrumentation, on these Fulton recordings, is nearly the minimum required. It is a lot of fun to play in a group like that. I'm surprised by large number (4) of trombones, actually. You are exactly right, to a point. When playing works of the early and mid-nineteenth century, historical modern performances can and should try to reproduce the instrumentation of the time, and some colleges and whatever pro performances occur, will do that, time to time. But the tradition of band music, (the changing personnel on these recordings even gives us a hint), is pretty much 'whoever shows up gets to play', so it is also quite 'authentic' to play these marches and later works with small groups, large groups, or whatever is around, and try to make the balance work with whatever you have. I'll go out on a limb and say that _generally_ Fulton, Sousa, and modern university and pro bands play/played pieces like marches with whomever they have/had present at the time. The instrumentation varied for Sousa, certainly, over the years, and I imagine he did much re-scoring of even his more serious works and transcriptions to suit his changing band, rather than send players off-stage or see them sit idle. This is the blessing and curse of the bands, as we have been discussing. Raymond Horton David W. Fenton wrote: On 24 Aug 2007 at 16:33, Daniel Wolf wrote: I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to meet some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? Might there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting certain instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or disallowing optional doublings or playing cue note? If someone has articulated a case for a particular standard for band instrumentation, I'd certainly be interested in reading it. I'll let the band folks answer the question you asked, but something similar did occur to me, stemming from the discussion of instrumentation on the list last night that followed my post. I was impressed with the *sound* of the music, based on the sightread recordings, which are really quite delightful. Their instrumentation is listed on the recording page: 1 Db Piccolo 1 Eb Clarinet 6 Bb Clarinet 1 Eb Cornet 4 Bb Cornet 4 Eb Horn 4 Trombone 1 Euphonium 1 Tuba 3 Percussion ...and that is definitely an odd one, from *my* experience with band music (I was librarian for my high school band and had to prepare lots of old music for performance by our modern band instrumentation, which meant adapting parts with clefs and key signatures, mostly, though, the horn players had to learn to transpose at sight when there were on Eb horn parts). I am mostly unfamiliar with the European and British band traditions, and the recordings I heard of this group sounded notably *Italian* to me. I was most surprised at the small number cornets, and noted that in some of the recordings, clarinets on descant parts completely covered up melody lines in the lower range of the cornet parts. Obviously, balances are going to be hard to get right in a sightreading session, but this was a very common texture for trios, for instance, with descant clarinets and cornet in a relatively low range (the first octave above middle C). It seemed that perhaps there were too many clarinets relative to the cornets. On the other hand, it could very well have been a artifact of microphone placement -- you can't really tell what live balances sound like from an MP3! In any event, what exact tradition is that instrumentation in? It's not at all the same as what I saw in all the marches that my high school band played (usually in original editions), though I guess they were mostly later (Sousa, Fillmore, etc.) and reflected a different tradition. I think efforts should be made by modern performers to play this repertory as close as possible to the original instrumentation. That would mean: 1 Db Piccolo - C Piccolo 1 Eb Clarinet 6 Bb Clarinet 1 Eb Cornet - ? 4 Bb Cornet - Trumpets if you don't have cornets 4 Eb Horn - F Horn 4 Trombone 1 Euphonium 1 Tuba 3 Percussion Naturally, replacing cornets with trumpets is a *major* change in sound, and F Horns are very different from Eb horns. And, yes, Db picc is very different from C, but in a band texture, not so much that it would matter a lot compared to simply not performing it. Performing the original instrumentation with the nearest corresponding instruments seems to me to be better than wholesale adding a bunch of parts and lines that don't exist in the original. Of course, if you'r
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Very often in school bands there's an unspoken requirement that everyone be playing most of the time to keep them occupied. When I wrote my first wind ensemble piece my intent was NOT to write yet another John Cacavas-type excursion into razzle-dazzle, I was roundly criticized for not having everyone playing all the time. Can't please everyone. Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
I discovered, thanks to this thread, that what I was doing was all wrong, since I'd been looking for writers who died 75 or more years ago. I found the following article online (easy to read) and am quoting below what seems the most useful information: http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/PublicDomain.html In trolling for public domain works, one of your objectives is to determine whether the copyright owner renewed, or forfeited, their copyright. Over time, the renewal term was extended by Congress from 28-years to 47-years, and with the passage of the CTEA, from 47-years to 67-years -- bringing the maximum total to 95-years (i.e., 28 + 67 = 95). For example, a work published in 1930, if properly renewed, will expire at the end of 2025 under the CTEA. In 1992, Congress enacted a law that made renewal automatic for works published between 1964 and 1978. However, if a work was published between 1923 and 1963, there is an excellent chance it may have fallen into the public domain for failure to renew. For example, copyright protection for Frank Capra's classic film, "It's a Wonderful Life" (1946) was lost in 1974, because someone inadvertently failed to file a copyright renewal application with the Copyright Office during the 28th year after the film's release. Notwithstanding, the films owner has asserted rights based upon copyright in the underlying story and musical score which were properly renewed. TIP: Pre-1978 works what are in the public domain because they were published without proper copyright notice, or, in the case of pre-1964 works, were not timely renewed, do not receive retroactive protection under the CTEA. Similarly, works published before 1923, do not receive retroactive protection, and remain in the public domain. --- Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Marilyn - Forwarded Message From: "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:08:41 -0400 Subject:Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems On 22 Aug 2007 at 11:58, John Howell wrote: > Anything published before 1923 is in the public > domain (in the U.S.), and may be used freely by anyone. It belongs to > all of us. What about a public-domain poem published in a critical edition that is itself under copyright, such as a Norton anthology? Is it not the case that the particular variant spellings and line breaks and so forth might make it prudent (if not strictly required) that you seek permission from the publisher of the edition? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On 24 Aug 2007 at 16:33, Daniel Wolf wrote: > I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is > there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to > meet some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? > Might there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting > certain instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or > disallowing optional doublings or playing cue note? If someone has > articulated a case for a particular standard for band instrumentation, > I'd certainly be interested in reading it. I'll let the band folks answer the question you asked, but something similar did occur to me, stemming from the discussion of instrumentation on the list last night that followed my post. I was impressed with the *sound* of the music, based on the sightread recordings, which are really quite delightful. Their instrumentation is listed on the recording page: 1 Db Piccolo 1 Eb Clarinet 6 Bb Clarinet 1 Eb Cornet 4 Bb Cornet 4 Eb Horn 4 Trombone 1 Euphonium 1 Tuba 3 Percussion ...and that is definitely an odd one, from *my* experience with band music (I was librarian for my high school band and had to prepare lots of old music for performance by our modern band instrumentation, which meant adapting parts with clefs and key signatures, mostly, though, the horn players had to learn to transpose at sight when there were on Eb horn parts). I am mostly unfamiliar with the European and British band traditions, and the recordings I heard of this group sounded notably *Italian* to me. I was most surprised at the small number cornets, and noted that in some of the recordings, clarinets on descant parts completely covered up melody lines in the lower range of the cornet parts. Obviously, balances are going to be hard to get right in a sightreading session, but this was a very common texture for trios, for instance, with descant clarinets and cornet in a relatively low range (the first octave above middle C). It seemed that perhaps there were too many clarinets relative to the cornets. On the other hand, it could very well have been a artifact of microphone placement -- you can't really tell what live balances sound like from an MP3! In any event, what exact tradition is that instrumentation in? It's not at all the same as what I saw in all the marches that my high school band played (usually in original editions), though I guess they were mostly later (Sousa, Fillmore, etc.) and reflected a different tradition. I think efforts should be made by modern performers to play this repertory as close as possible to the original instrumentation. That would mean: 1 Db Piccolo - C Piccolo 1 Eb Clarinet 6 Bb Clarinet 1 Eb Cornet - ? 4 Bb Cornet - Trumpets if you don't have cornets 4 Eb Horn - F Horn 4 Trombone 1 Euphonium 1 Tuba 3 Percussion Naturally, replacing cornets with trumpets is a *major* change in sound, and F Horns are very different from Eb horns. And, yes, Db picc is very different from C, but in a band texture, not so much that it would matter a lot compared to simply not performing it. Performing the original instrumentation with the nearest corresponding instruments seems to me to be better than wholesale adding a bunch of parts and lines that don't exist in the original. Of course, if you're using this music in school band (and it's perfectly suitable for it, indeed, I would say quite excellent educationally in terms of musical style and balance of technical/rhythmic challenges), you'd need to adapt so that everyone has something to play. But to me, for more professional-level bands (which to me includes university bands), I think I'd go with an approach similar to modern orchestras, which, for instance, cut their string sections for Mozart in comparison to Brahms. But that doesn't seem to be often done. The difference here is one of what your editions provides and what each individual ensemble with choose to perform with. I would think the edition should include all the parts for a modern band, which would allow any organization to play it, but that the more advanced groups should choose to replicate the original instrumentation as closely as possible. This would mean identifying the added parts in some way (probably in the score would suffice). Am I misinterpreting the discussion here? Is my position basically what all y'all were advocating? Or do even university-level and professional bands seldom/never adapt their instrumentation to the music they are playing? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] midi set up
Could someone give me a step by step midi set up? I am using Mac Finale 2007. I am using an acient Yamaha DX7. It has always worked fine. I don't care about playback. I can enter notes rhythmically but they won't change pitches. Thanks, Bob Florence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale has a mind of its own
On Aug 24, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I have a figure - two triplet 8ths on the downbeat of a 4/4 measure, and every time I copy it vertically (haven't tried horizontal) it changes the remaining rests from a quarter and a half to 2 8ths and a half. What's up with that? The new copy behaviour is not ideal, IMHO. There are a lot of inconsistencies that pop up when copying (like added accidentals repeating ones already in the key signature!) and redone rests is just one more. Complain, and loudly. christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On Aug 24, 2007, at 4:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, as one who can be excessively finicky about which instrument plays what, I swore a long time ago that the word "band" would never appear on any of my title pages precisely because of its imprecise meaning. It's interesting that MMB Music wrote "Wind Ensemble" on my recently published Haydn overture transcription (which, btw, includes a specially transposed oboe part for an obbligato clarinet to be used if no oboe is available). Good for you! I know that I shouldn't be so cavalier about changing arrangements, but if THEY are going to be so lackadaisical, then I will just follow suit. Obviously, I am not going to be substituting parts in Stravinsky's Octet (I'll just have to wait to have the players) but there is SO much overdone stuff out there... christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
And, as one who can be excessively finicky about which instrument plays what, I swore a long time ago that the word "band" would never appear on any of my title pages precisely because of its imprecise meaning. It's interesting that MMB Music wrote "Wind Ensemble" on my recently published Haydn overture transcription (which, btw, includes a specially transposed oboe part for an obbligato clarinet to be used if no oboe is available). Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale has a mind of its own
I have a figure - two triplet 8ths on the downbeat of a 4/4 measure, and every time I copy it vertically (haven't tried horizontal) it changes the remaining rests from a quarter and a half to 2 8ths and a half. What's up with that? Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] proportional notation
Which font do I use to engrave proportional notation music? beam extenders, beamlets, note head extenders... (See Kurt Stone p 136 to 145) Thanks, Pierre ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Marching was only an occasional, necessary evil for these guys. Generally it was two to three concerts a day, in different locations. We are talking about the biggest name in popular music of his day. In those decades - the peak year being 1910, there were hundreds of professional bands touring the country. Sousa was only the most well-known, followed closely by Arthur Pryor, his former Assistant Conductor and trombone soloist. When one of these bands came in, it was like the Elvis coming to town. RBH Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, [snip] The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, Heh, heh! My association of Sousa with marching bands made me spit my tea when the image of a marching harpist popped up in your discourse! I was already musing on marching bassoons, and how much I hate marching with a tuba, or the infinitely worse sousaphone, which is at least twice as heavy. Great discussion, guys! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
I'm amazed that a power user like yourself doesn't see them more often, although you ARE using the relatively stable 2005 version. i do, but this one was different. usually i just breathe in deeply, bestow upon the dumputer a delicate spew of verbal abuse, take a pee and go back to (recover lost) work. Hiro mentioned that often if he gets the spinning beach ball, just getting up and walking away to let the computer sort things out itself often works. i discovered long ago (possibly F2005) that if you have auto-save on you can leave it in hang mode long enough to get the next save before force-quitting and picking up from the auto-save doc. i rarely got it to come back to life or recovered hung docs just by waiting. and i don't use auto-save anymore (have taught myself to be more diligent about saving... most of the time), after getting paranoid about the overwrite bug, which as i recall was never "solved" but seems to have disappeared, or gone underground, in 2007 (and 2008?). 2007 is working fine for me (well, no less stable than 2005; never had 2006), but i had corrections on a 2005 file, and the many tiny differences i would have to adjust (esp. tuplet placement above) aren't worth the hassle for the few corrections i have to do. (i like to call it the spinning psychedelic pizza of death) -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Ray- Who's doing your double bell?? Jim From: Raymond Horton Sent: Fri 24-Aug-07 14:18 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, but there are couple of features worth noting. All flutes doubled on piccolo. Two oboes, 2nd doubling EH. The Bb clarinet section was large (12-27 players), with only one alto and one bass clarinet. Earlier Sousa bands used Eb Clarinet, but he discontinued this in favor of adding more flutes. The use of contrabassoon (or, in one season, contrabass sarrusaphone) was limited to a few seasons and was doubled by the second (of two) bassoonists. The sax section varied from four to eight players. Trumpets and cornets were strongly segregated, not doubling, usually in a two trumpet to four cornet ratio, although in the earlier years the lower cornet parts were taken by flugelhorns. Always four horns, and four trombones to two (or later) one euphonium. Sousa only had upright-bell sousaphones, and the earlier bands used a mixture of tubas and sousaphone, while the later bands used sousaphones exclusively. Always three percussionists. The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, with the harpist also a standard member of the full ensemble, seated front center between woodwinds and brasses. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale This segregation of cornets and trumpet _parts_, (although the instruments were totally mixed up half and half) was still the norm in bands when I was a lad, but is uncommon now, I suppose. In my first formative year playing in a good high school band (1965-66), I played next to the first "trumpet," who was the second best player in the section and sat on the opposite end of the section from the first "cornet." Both were playing the wrong instruments, though. A year later, the first "trumpet" had advanced to first "cornet", but he had traded his cornet in for a new trumpet. Whenever bands play works with both cornet and trumpet parts, all parts are played, of course, but there are not distinct sections, and the only kids with cornets are the ones who got them out of their granddad's attics. I don't really know what the standard instrumentation for a new band piece is, I suppose 3 or 4 parts for "cornets/trumpets." In the one large work I wrote for concert band (my master's thesis) back in '75 I used three cornet and two trumpet parts - with the trumpet parts being intended for a smaller section or one on a part. I found it very useful. On another subject you bring up - the low WWs, that large band I played in for a year in the 8th grade in 65-66 had the most amazing low reed section: BBb and Eb contrabass clarinets (that's the name I'm sticking to for the latter no matter what's done to me), four bass clarinets, bass sax, one or two bari sax, all complimenting a section of six tubas. We played a nice arrangement of J.S. Bach's _Fantasia_ in G that started with a bass low G - a sound I'll never forget. Do you have any idea if the tuba-sousaphone mixture was intentional, and was the change to all sousaphones intentional? I wonder if they actually sounded better than the other tubas available at the time? I am in the process of having a _removable_ double bell added to one of my euphoniums, but I haven't heard from the guy doing it for months (he was so confident at the start!). I really should email him... Raymond Horton ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, but there are couple of features worth noting. All flutes doubled on piccolo. Two oboes, 2nd doubling EH. The Bb clarinet section was large (12-27 players), with only one alto and one bass clarinet. Earlier Sousa bands used Eb Clarinet, but he discontinued this in favor of adding more flutes. The use of contrabassoon (or, in one season, contrabass sarrusaphone) was limited to a few seasons and was doubled by the second (of two) bassoonists. The sax section varied from four to eight players. Trumpets and cornets were strongly segregated, not doubling, usually in a two trumpet to four cornet ratio, although in the earlier years the lower cornet parts were taken by flugelhorns. Always four horns, and four trombones to two (or later) one euphonium. Sousa only had upright-bell sousaphones, and the earlier bands used a mixture of tubas and sousaphone, while the later bands used sousaphones exclusively. Always three percussionists. The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, with the harpist also a standard member of the full ensemble, seated front center between woodwinds and brasses. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale This segregation of cornets and trumpet _parts_, (although the instruments were totally mixed up half and half) was still the norm in bands when I was a lad, but is uncommon now, I suppose. In my first formative year playing in a good high school band (1965-66), I played next to the first "trumpet," who was the second best player in the section and sat on the opposite end of the section from the first "cornet." Both were playing the wrong instruments, though. A year later, the first "trumpet" had advanced to first "cornet", but he had traded his cornet in for a new trumpet. Whenever bands play works with both cornet and trumpet parts, all parts are played, of course, but there are not distinct sections, and the only kids with cornets are the ones who got them out of their granddad's attics. I don't really know what the standard instrumentation for a new band piece is, I suppose 3 or 4 parts for "cornets/trumpets." In the one large work I wrote for concert band (my master's thesis) back in '75 I used three cornet and two trumpet parts - with the trumpet parts being intended for a smaller section or one on a part. I found it very useful. On another subject you bring up - the low WWs, that large band I played in for a year in the 8th grade in 65-66 had the most amazing low reed section: BBb and Eb contrabass clarinets (that's the name I'm sticking to for the latter no matter what's done to me), four bass clarinets, bass sax, one or two bari sax, all complimenting a section of six tubas. We played a nice arrangement of J.S. Bach's _Fantasia_ in G that started with a bass low G - a sound I'll never forget. Do you have any idea if the tuba-sousaphone mixture was intentional, and was the change to all sousaphones intentional? I wonder if they actually sounded better than the other tubas available at the time? I am in the process of having a _removable_ double bell added to one of my euphoniums, but I haven't heard from the guy doing it for months (he was so confident at the start!). I really should email him... Raymond Horton ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:33 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote: chuck, i assume you have, but have you reported this? Hi jef, Shame on me, no I haven't. I have learned to live with it and have adopted the habit of saving my file just before trying anything fancy, so that I rarely lose anything when Finale crashes. I guess it hasn't happened all that often. One's impression of things like this is pretty subjective. And my sense of what has caused a problem tends to be flawed. I don't always know what combination of factors are in operation. But I have pinpointed the Auto-Save kicking in as a frequent cause of this - again, only when there is something else intensive Finale is trying to do at the same time. I have learned to wait a second or two before starting a playback or big Mass Edit operation, if I see signs of the Auto-Save starting. My last two communications w/Mac Support have gone unanswered. Don't know what's going on. Chuck I also have this experience fairly often, and I can often pinpoint the kind of thing that causes it. It happens when an auto-save starts just as I am performing a memory intensive operation - starting playback, copying something in mass edit. It seems as if Finale doesn't want do deal with the two things at once and doesn't know which to give priority, so it hangs up. This is quite consistent behavior for me. -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Ah, many thanks. Dean On Aug 23, 2007, at 7:37 PM, John Howell wrote: At 6:47 PM -0700 8/23/07, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Hey, John ... could you clue me in as to what site you visited to get the PDF's? Are they in score format, condensed, or what? I'm attempting to upgrade my bandstrating skills, and find that score study is an excellent way to do it, especially if a performance is available. North Royalton Community Band Digital Music Library Dana M. Bailey, Jr. Collection Music Committee Members Tom Pechnik, Senior Archivist; Mary Phillips; Wayne Dydo; Bill Park, Director 14713 Ridge Rd. North Royalton, OH 44133 www.nr-cb. They are scans of the original quickstep sized parts, no scores (never any published), and no audio clips at that particular website. Pretty good selection of pieces, many if not most from the Filmore Bros. Co. in Cincinnati. You can really see where Hal Leonard got the idea for the simplified marching band arrangements they were publishing 'way back in the early '50s: melody for C and Bb instruments; first harmony part for Bb instruments; second harmony part for Bb and Eb instruments; countermelody part for Bb instruments in different clefs; bass line with alternate key signatures for bari sax; and drums. Very solid, none of those chirping woodwind parts! John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home Why do they sterilize the needle for lethal injections? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 4:33 PM +0200 8/24/07, Daniel Wolf wrote: I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to meet some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? Might there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting certain instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or disallowing optional doublings or playing cue note? If someone has articulated a case for a particular standard for band instrumentation, I'd certainly be interested in reading it. You've touched on a sore point, Daniel, and it is an important one. Fundamentally, there is no prescribed instrumentation for the concert band, in the sense that there is for the orchestra. And this forces band composers and arrangers into a situation where they may want certain specific tone colors, but cannot be assured of having those instruments and players available. Which means, in turn, that they must cross-cue important passages, or double them more thickly than they might want to, to make sure that the musical elements will be there even though the preferred tone color will not. This relates, in general, to the lower instruments in each section. Alto, tenor, and bari saxes are almost always available, but bass is not, nor is soprano. Bb clarinets abound, but one might not find an Eb soprano, Eb alto, Eb bass or BBb contrabass. One may want true bass trombone, but instead have only 3rd trombone. And one may want true cornets and flugelhorns, but will have only trumpets. And one may or may not have any oboes at all, more than one bassoon, and probably not English horn or contrabassoon. In the case of orchestras, the idea is to "play as scored," which means that if additional instruments are needed for a particular composition, the orchestra manager hires the additional players. Very few concert bands are in any position to do the same. The only exceptions are (a) those which consider themselves to be truly professional and WILL hire additional players; (b) University wind ensembles for which the school owns the more exotic instruments and can assign students to learn to play them; or (c) ensembles of fixed instrumentation, such as traditional brass bands. There are also traditions involved. Some bands use double bass, others do not. The USAF Band has long used cellos; most bands do not. Baritones and euphoniums are used interchangeably in the U.S., and the special sound of the cornet has all but disappeared. Of course one can always CHOOSE to omit certain instruments, as indeed orchestra composers can also do, but fundamentally band players want to be playing all the time on everything (as long as there are enough rests to rest the lips!). I'm sure that individual publishers have their own "standard" band instrumentations, but the problem is that none of them is truly a "standard." John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
chuck, i assume you have, but have you reported this? I also have this experience fairly often, and I can often pinpoint the kind of thing that causes it. It happens when an auto-save starts just as I am performing a memory intensive operation - starting playback, copying something in mass edit. It seems as if Finale doesn't want do deal with the two things at once and doesn't know which to give priority, so it hangs up. This is quite consistent behavior for me. -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
hi eric, no to all of the above. as far as programmes go, i would have had mostly standard progs open: firefox, eudora, skype, etc... ah also fontexplorer, but i don't recall it ever causing problems. i guess it was just standard meltdown, although i had done my weekly reboot a day earlier, and normally it doesn't happen so early into the "week". Did you have a network drive that you were trying to save to? Or a drive that was online and then you took off line? Maybe a .Mac account iDisk? What you describe sounds like the Mac was looking for a drive to become available. Are you running any other programs, like Default Folders? There could be a lot of things that could cause this. -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
I also have this experience fairly often, and I can often pinpoint the kind of thing that causes it. It happens when an auto-save starts just as I am performing a memory intensive operation - starting playback, copying something in mass edit. It seems as if Finale doesn't want do deal with the two things at once and doesn't know which to give priority, so it hangs up. This is quite consistent behavior for me. Chuck On Aug 24, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 24, 2007, at 6:32 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote: i had just applied some doc options, hit ok and auto-save kicked in to save a new (untitled) file and it seems to be hanging now, but not crashed. clicking anywhere in the window does nothing, i can still switch apps and come back to it, and can even move the window, but i can't get out of the window (cancel with mouse or keyboard) or save or name the file. from the finder, i pulled up the force quit window and everything seems fine with F05. autosave still works, and it saved the file 2min before it sort of hung so there is no loss, but what would cause this and is there a way out without force quitting? It sounds like a garden-variety program crash. Hangs and crashes are pretty much the same thing; it makes the program stop working. I'm amazed that a power user like yourself doesn't see them more often, although you ARE using the relatively stable 2005 version. 2006 is OK, too, but 2007-2008 are quite unstable. I get that kind of thing all the time nowadays. Hiro mentioned that often if he gets the spinning beach ball, just getting up and walking away to let the computer sort things out itself often works. It might take twenty minutes, or it might end in a "program not responding" in the force quit window, but it might be worth a try if you have work at stake. I have about a 50:50 success rate with the "walk away and come back later" tactic. On two different occasions, frequent crashes were the result of a flaky RAM chip, which I was able to find with MemTest, as I mentioned recently to Andrew S. on this list. The system reporting a Kernel Panic sometimes when I was in Finder was a clue, too. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
Did you have a network drive that you were trying to save to? Or a drive that was online and then you took off line? Maybe a .Mac account iDisk? What you describe sounds like the Mac was looking for a drive to become available. Are you running any other programs, like Default Folders? There could be a lot of things that could cause this. shirling & neueweise wrote: i had just applied some doc options, hit ok and auto-save kicked in to save a new (untitled) file and it seems to be hanging now, but not crashed. clicking anywhere in the window does nothing, i can still switch apps and come back to it, and can even move the window, but i can't get out of the window (cancel with mouse or keyboard) or save or name the file. from the finder, i pulled up the force quit window and everything seems fine with F05. autosave still works, and it saved the file 2min before it sort of hung so there is no loss, but what would cause this and is there a way out without force quitting? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Hmm...very luxuriant! Such a wide selection of double reeds is quite a luxury in many bands nowadays (I remember only being able to write one each oboe and bassoon part when I wrote my HS band stuff). Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk > There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and > that of contemporary bands, but there are couple of features worth > noting. All flutes doubled on piccolo. Two oboes, 2nd doubling EH. The > Bb clarinet section was large (12-27 players), with only one alto and > one bass clarinet. Earlier Sousa bands used Eb Clarinet, but he > discontinued this in favor of adding more flutes. The use of > contrabassoon (or, in one season, contrabass sarrusaphone) was limited > to a few seasons and was doubled by the second (of two) bassoonists. The > sax section varied from four to eight players. Trumpets and cornets > were strongly segregated, not doubling, usually in a two trumpet to four > cornet ratio, although in the earlier years the lower cornet parts were > taken by flugelhorns. Always four horns, and four trombones to two (or > later) one euphonium. Sousa only had upright-bell sousaphones, and the > earlier bands used a mixture of tubas and sousaphone, while the later > bands used sousaphones exclusively. Always three percussionists. The > band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a > harpist as soloists, with the harpist also a standard member of the full > ensemble, seated front center between woodwinds and brasses. > > Daniel Wolf > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Don't forget Woody Allen marching with the cello in TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN... From: Christopher Smith Sent: Fri 24-Aug-07 11:37 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music On Aug 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, [snip] The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, Heh, heh! My association of Sousa with marching bands made me spit my tea when the image of a marching harpist popped up in your discourse! I was already musing on marching bassoons, and how much I hate marching with a tuba, or the infinitely worse sousaphone, which is at least twice as heavy. Great discussion, guys! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On Aug 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, [snip] The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, Heh, heh! My association of Sousa with marching bands made me spit my tea when the image of a marching harpist popped up in your discourse! I was already musing on marching bassoons, and how much I hate marching with a tuba, or the infinitely worse sousaphone, which is at least twice as heavy. Great discussion, guys! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
On Aug 24, 2007, at 6:32 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote: i had just applied some doc options, hit ok and auto-save kicked in to save a new (untitled) file and it seems to be hanging now, but not crashed. clicking anywhere in the window does nothing, i can still switch apps and come back to it, and can even move the window, but i can't get out of the window (cancel with mouse or keyboard) or save or name the file. from the finder, i pulled up the force quit window and everything seems fine with F05. autosave still works, and it saved the file 2min before it sort of hung so there is no loss, but what would cause this and is there a way out without force quitting? It sounds like a garden-variety program crash. Hangs and crashes are pretty much the same thing; it makes the program stop working. I'm amazed that a power user like yourself doesn't see them more often, although you ARE using the relatively stable 2005 version. 2006 is OK, too, but 2007-2008 are quite unstable. I get that kind of thing all the time nowadays. Hiro mentioned that often if he gets the spinning beach ball, just getting up and walking away to let the computer sort things out itself often works. It might take twenty minutes, or it might end in a "program not responding" in the force quit window, but it might be worth a try if you have work at stake. I have about a 50:50 success rate with the "walk away and come back later" tactic. On two different occasions, frequent crashes were the result of a flaky RAM chip, which I was able to find with MemTest, as I mentioned recently to Andrew S. on this list. The system reporting a Kernel Panic sometimes when I was in Finder was a clue, too. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 5:00 PM +0200 8/24/07, Daniel Wolf wrote: There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, but there are couple of features worth noting. All flutes doubled on piccolo. Two oboes, 2nd doubling EH. The Bb clarinet section was large (12-27 players), with only one alto and one bass clarinet. What?!!! You mean that Meredith Willson's story about the 2nd bass clarinetist (in his book, "And There I Stood With My Piccolo") isn't true? And I must say that I have trouble picturing a band with 27 clarinets fitting in one of the typical gazebos of the day. The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, with the harpist also a standard member of the full ensemble, seated front center between woodwinds and brasses. One of the funniest musical sight-gags I've ever seen was with the Spike Jones band, with a harpist on a raised platform. As the curtain opened she was sitting there behind her harp, knitting a scarf. As the show went on she continued knitting but never played a single note, and by the end of the show the scarf was about 20 feet long!!! Oh well; I'm easily entertained. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Daniel Wolf wrote: I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to meet some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? Might there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting certain instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or disallowing optional doublings or playing cue note? If someone has articulated a case for a particular standard for band instrumentation, I'd certainly be interested in reading it. The rationale would be maximising sales; to make the arrangement playable for as many different bands as possible through doubling everything up the wazoo. If there is a lot of repertoire for a certain instrumentation, there is more likely to be a group formed to play that repertoire. After a twenty-year break, I am this semester starting to conduct the school's wind ensemble. I always did, and will probably continue to do, massage the arrangements somewhat, asking some instruments to tacet a doubled part, changing to one-to-a-part in some sections, and adding parts in where they are missing, need doubling, or would go better on a different instrument. Some arrangements require little or no adjustment, some (particularly, as you mention, the ones aimed an educational market) need it a lot, as they are overwritten and overdoubled all over the place to allow for missing and understaffed instruments, and for weak players on some parts. My own bands had and will have their own problems, and I will have to allow for those problems myself, which would have been impossible for every arranger to do, since they don't know my band. At least it is easier to tacet someone than to add in a part that is missing and uncued. Some schools make a distinction between massed bands (concert band) and wind ensemble (one to a part, not necessarily standardised instrumentation.) In my school we don't have enough players to make that distinction, but I will probably draw on repertoire from both camps, letting the unused players take a break, or go off and rehearse their smaller piece on their own. That's just my take on it, of course. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
As someone who writes a lot for band, I can say that a great deal of flexibility already exists. There is no prescribed standard. This works both for and against the composer: I can ask for just about anything (8 horns, bass sax, harp, electric bass), but I have also seen pieces with a more common instrumentation performed without critical instruments (no oboe, no Eb clar, whatever). -Carolyn Bremer On 8/24/07, Daniel Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is > there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to meet > some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? Might > there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting certain > instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or disallowing optional > doublings or playing cue note? If someone has articulated a case for a > particular standard for band instrumentation, I'd certainly be > interested in reading it. > > Daniel Wolf > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 9:17 AM -0500 8/24/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think it's time for a HIP band movement? I'm impressed that anyone here has actually SEEN a d-flat piccolo. (And then there are Wagner's d-flat trumpets and horns (assuming that they were intended to be for real)) The use of Db piccolos AND Db flutes (I don't know about the brass instruments) arose from the firmly held (and spurious) belief that flutes were more comfortable in sharp keys (or, alternatively, that they were uncomfortable in flat keys). That wasn't even true for the 18th century 1-keyed flute, for which F, Bb, and Ab used cross fingerings, and CERTAINLY was never true of the Böhm flute, with natural scale fingering for F and Bb. And of course the 3rd sharp is the same fingering as the 3rd flat (assuming equal temperament). Because of the cross fingerings, I will stipulate that it may have been true FOR BEGINNERS, but not for professionals. In fact one of the goals of the 19th century conservatories was to force students past what was "easy" on their instruments and make sure that they could play equally well what was "difficult." But everyone and his orchestration teacher believed thoroughly in this urban legend, and I wouldn't be surprised to find it repeated in 20th century orchestration books. It ain't necessarily so! Oh, and there's already a sort of HIP orchestra movement, which takes into consideration the fact that, for example, the wind instruments for which Stravinsky wrote in Paris were not the same and did not sound the same as the instruments that are favored today. And of course there are reenactment bands using 19th century saxhorns, just as there are reenactments of Civil War battles. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
I have a general aesthetic question for people involved in bands. Is there a rationale beyond the pedagogical for wanting band scores to meet some prescribed contemporary and standardized instrumentation? Might there not be some legitimate musical reasons for omitting certain instruments or requiring others, or for allowing or disallowing optional doublings or playing cue note? If someone has articulated a case for a particular standard for band instrumentation, I'd certainly be interested in reading it. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
There is a great deal of continuity between Sousa's instrumentation and that of contemporary bands, but there are couple of features worth noting. All flutes doubled on piccolo. Two oboes, 2nd doubling EH. The Bb clarinet section was large (12-27 players), with only one alto and one bass clarinet. Earlier Sousa bands used Eb Clarinet, but he discontinued this in favor of adding more flutes. The use of contrabassoon (or, in one season, contrabass sarrusaphone) was limited to a few seasons and was doubled by the second (of two) bassoonists. The sax section varied from four to eight players. Trumpets and cornets were strongly segregated, not doubling, usually in a two trumpet to four cornet ratio, although in the earlier years the lower cornet parts were taken by flugelhorns. Always four horns, and four trombones to two (or later) one euphonium. Sousa only had upright-bell sousaphones, and the earlier bands used a mixture of tubas and sousaphone, while the later bands used sousaphones exclusively. Always three percussionists. The band membership also included a female vocalist, a violinist, and a harpist as soloists, with the harpist also a standard member of the full ensemble, seated front center between woodwinds and brasses. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Think it's time for a HIP band movement? I'm impressed that anyone here has actually SEEN a d-flat piccolo. (And then there are Wagner's d-flat trumpets and horns (assuming that they were intended to be for real)) Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Hmm...would've been interesting to hear Omar Khayyam set to music by Sousa (assuming, of course, that he could've gotten permission!). Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk > This band talk started me doing some surfing, which turned up this quote: > > > > > "A horse, a dog, a girl, a gun, and music on the side that is my > idea of heaven." > > - John Phillip Sousa > > > > > > It's undoubtedly a good thing that I go back to work next week. > > > RBH > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: Size
If all else fails, go to the menu where you set up the Page Layout for Parts/Score (not under the File menu; I'm at work and can't remember which menu this falls under; it's the same one as you find Document Options), set all the parameters for the Score, then peform a Redefine All Pages which will wipe out all the existing page layout info (excepting any System Locks, which it will retain.) Then, do an Update, and hopefully, you will have the solution. > Hi, Christopher. I've tried the (Adjust) Edit Systems fix (WinFin06' XP) > you recommended but it has not worked, alas. I've noticed that on the > problem pages the system handles extend well beyond the bottom of the page > to about 32". I can't find a way to click/drag/edit/cajole/threaten the > handles back into place. All of this takes place on systems 34-54. > System > 33, as you suggested, was used to edit through the end of the piece but to > no avail. I'm sure it's something I've screwed up inadvertantly. Thanks > for your patience and help. > > Bruce Clausen > > > - Original Message - > From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Finale] RE: Size > > >> >> On Aug 23, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Bruce E. Clausen wrote: >> >>> Another version of yesterday's problem. Regarding yesterday, I had to >>> re-adjust the right system margins page by page, but at least I got >>> things back to normal. >> >> Ooh, you don't have to do it individually! If you select Adjust System >> Margins from the Page Layout menu, then click on a system you like the >> settings for, then in the Adjust System Margins window select "from >> [insert system number] to _ [leave it blank to go to the end of the >> document]" and hit Apply. All the systems will inherit the settings of >> the one you first clicked on. If you only want some settings applied, >> then make sure only those boxes are checked. >> >> >>> However, if I try to adjust the pages with % Tool the measures of the >>> final pages again are grossly oversized. >> >> I STRONGLY suggest that you don't use the % tool for resizing pages. >> Use >> the tool to resize systems instead, by clicking between the clefs of >> two >> staves. This will preserve the size and position of all your titles and >> other page-attached stuff, and greatly simplify your life in other >> ways. >> >> there are 4 ways to use the % tool >> 1. click a note to resize it. >> 2 click a staff (usually on the clef) to resize it >> 3 click between the clefs of two staves in the same system to resize >> the >> system USE THIS ONE >> 4 click in the margin of a page to resize it. >> >> You often get a dialogue box asking you the range you want to resize. >> Leave the second field blank to go to the end of the document. >> >> >>> I can't seem to find a fix. I have a hunch that the problem relates >>> to >>> the fact that the complete score file was put together from three >>> smaller files for the individual movements. >> >> Yes, all the original settings were preserved when you glued the works >> together. >> >> >>> But, I have no idea how to fix it. >> >> See my advice about resizing system margins and the resize tool. Two >> steps to make your entire score the same top to bottom. >> >> Christopher >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] half-hang? (mac 2005)
i had just applied some doc options, hit ok and auto-save kicked in to save a new (untitled) file and it seems to be hanging now, but not crashed. clicking anywhere in the window does nothing, i can still switch apps and come back to it, and can even move the window, but i can't get out of the window (cancel with mouse or keyboard) or save or name the file. from the finder, i pulled up the force quit window and everything seems fine with F05. autosave still works, and it saved the file 2min before it sort of hung so there is no loss, but what would cause this and is there a way out without force quitting? -- shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
