Fwd: worms, daily dewormers, Quest
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) (by way of Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED]) I am resending this old message from Brian since I have had several requests for it. Here is the Quest info from April of 98. This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I apologize for being slow to write back with what I was going to say about Quest (tm). To my knowledge, Quest has not yet been known to hurt a horse when it was used properly. When used improperly, though, it seems to be less forgiving than some of the other pastewormers we're used to. The sales rep for the company that makes Quest told me about a pony here in North Carolina that had actually died shortly after being dewormed with it. However, he claimed that the pony had been extremely overdosed. It seems the owner was accustomed to giving her 250 pound pony a whole tube of pastewormer and had never had trouble with the other brands. When she did it with Quest, though, within a few hours the pony started displaying neurological signs which progressed to seizures and then death. Even though I'm embarrassed to relate it, I personally saw the effects of Quest dosed improperly also. I dewormed some of the horses with Quest one day, and since I was short on time, was going to give it to the rest when I had more time. Two weeks later I did deworm the rest, but mistakenly also repeated it with one horse that had gotten it two weeks earlier. The proper dose was used each time, but obviously you're not supposed to use it again that soon. Three days later my horse was showing signs of abdominal discomfort (colic). To make a long story short, he recovered quickly and uneventfully with several days worth of a Pepto Bismol type medication for stomach irritation. Whereas a double dose of the other common pastewormers would have caused no untoward side effects, especially two weeks apart, it seems that Quest can cause problems. I do take full responsibility though, for (unintentionally) using it wrong. On the positive side, one of my year-and-a-half old geldings had a bit of a pot belly that frequent deworming (tube and paste) and what should have been proper nutrition had not improved. Within three weeks after using the Quest, there was a noticeable improvement with a trimmer, more appealing abdominal shape. To summarize, I and the veterinarians I work for and with feel that Quest should be a good dewormer to use in a rotation with several others of the good ones we already have. IMPORTANT POINT - rotation. Neither the Ivermectins (Zimectrin (tm), Equimectrin (tm), Eqvalan (tm), Rotectin 1 (tm)) nor Moxidectin (Quest (tm)) are very effective against tapeworms. Although in general tapeworms are one of the species we see the least problems with, exclusive use of the dewormers listed above can result in a buildup of tapeworms resulting in impaction colic. As an example of this, in veterinary school I saw a horse that had to be euthanized due to an impaction of unknown cause that was not responding to medical treatment (surgery was not an option financially for the owners). The autopsy revealed many tapeworms packed together and blocking the intestines. Since then I have seen 2 or 3 more that luckily did respond to medical treatment, and, subsequent to treatment for tapeworms (the fecal exam revealed that's what the problem was), have not had a reoccurance. Someone paricipating in the Fjordhorse Digest wrote (maybe a week ago?) that they used Zimectrin exclusively every two months; I hope they see this to know that can cause problems. Now, to answer some good questions: Dave McWethy wrote: I had a fecal test done for a couple of my mares this fall, and the result was negative. I questioned that, wanting some more detail, and they said, Negative, we didn't see anything. What am I to make of that? Should we have looked at another sample? A negative result means (1) your horses do not have any worms (possible but doubtful - that's almost impossible to achieve), (2) there were no worms in your horses that were laying eggs at that time (not mature yet, encysted, or migrating), (3) eggs were being laid, but since only about 1/2 teaspoon of stool is used in the test, none were in the test samples, and (4) the veterinarian/technician missed seeing eggs that really were there in the fecal samples. Since numbers 1 and 4 are unlikely, the most likely answer is number 2 or 3, most likely #2. Dave also asked: So what do you do, Brian, for worming of your horses? I try to keep the number of horses per pasture to a minimum, harrow the pastures in hot, dry weather only (worms thrive in wet, and don't mind cold - if you harrow in these conditions you will help the worms by spreading them out but not killing them), and deworm (tube and paste) each 8 weeks with Pyrantel Pamoate products (Strongid (tm), Rotectin 2 (tm)) and Ivermectin products (Zimectrin (tm), Equimectrin (tm), Eqvalan (tm), Rotectin 1 (tm)), and each
more foal feeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) (by way of Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED]) This is another resend of Brian's on feeding. This one was from 9/17/98 This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks for the thanks Anton and others who have replied to my foal feeding post. In reply to your question, One more question about feeding; is it correct that for the first two years of life a foal can stay on grass all the time compared to older ones who have to be removed to avoid problems? Yes, for the most part this is true. The problems you allude to would be excess weight gain and founder I guess? When horses founder due to what they've been eating (vs. other causes of founder) the problem is excess carbohydrates. Since young horses up to two years old are usually growing fast, the carbohydrates are not excess, they are needed for growth. This is also the reason a pregnant mare on grass alone will almost never founder - she has a high requirement for carbohydrates to help that foal inside her grow. A mature gelding or non-pregnant mare or stallion, on the other hand, is usually getting excess carbohydrates if they are on grass 24 hours per day, and can founder as a result. Back to your question again, though. If that young horse is getting grain in addition to unrestricted grass, possibly there could be a problem. Founder should almost never sneak up on a person; Ninety-five percent of the time it should have been seen coming. See the post Founder on the list for more details. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: foal colors and feeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) (by way of Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED]) This is a resend of Brian's post on the feeding topic. This was from 9/14/98 This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Pamela, Mike is out of town until tonight or tomorrow I believe. I had some information on Capstone's Prinz, and I didn't see any greys for several generations back. I don't have info on Nikki. It is possible, though, to get a grey foal from two brown dun parents. Even if none of the recent ancestors have been grey, it is a recessive factor, and can travel unexpressed in the bloodlines for quite a while. I don't think anyone can give you exact odds except to say they would be small. I know one grey breeder who can usually tell at a very young age if a horse is a grey by the presence of dark mascara markings above the eyes. Does Skylark have markings like that? Regarding your feeding question, how to feed a Fjord foal, if everyone sends you their own feeding program I'm sure you will get 100 different responses. I think the basics you probably used in feeding your foals of other breeds will stand you in good stead though. Realize that a foal does not HAVE to have grain. Man has not (and will not) developed any feed better than momma's milk until they are 5-6 months old. There is nothing really wrong with some grain for foals, but with some grass or good hay, grain is not necessary. If you want to feed grain, however, plain oats or sweet oats are good and should not get a foal into any trouble by growing too fast. Or, a 14% protein sweet feed or pellet is good to use. Even though feed companies like you to buy their higher-priced foal starters, a lactating mare feed (14%) works every bit as well, enabling you to feed mom and baby the same thing. One nice thing about Fjords compared to some other breeds (in general) is that the mares share better with the foals. I really like this as it enables me to pour the grain in one pan and the mare and foal both get a proper amount - the mare gets the larger share of it by virtue of being able to eat more and faster, yet the foal still gets enough. You will see some feed companies lately pushing 16% protein feed for foals - personally I feel that 14% is better and won't get you into as much trouble with growth problems or a foal bouncing off the walls due to excess energy. A rough guideline of how much grain to give is 1 pound per 100 pounds of horse - weigh it on the bathroom scale. If it's hard to tell how much your foal weighs, ask your veterinarian for a weight tape. You measure around the girth with it and it gives a pretty accurate reading of weight. If you have beautiful pasture, your foal may get too heavy with grain and beautiful grass both - you may want to forego the grain. If the pasture is average then free choice grazing plus grain is fine. If the pasture is poor, then free choice grass hay plus grain would be good. By weaning time at 5-6 months, the foal, if not getting any grain, should be getting free choice grazing, or 2% of its bodyweight in good quality grass hay, or somewhere between the two. For example, a 400 lb Fjord foal would need 8 lbs hay daily if there wasn't much grass to eat. If there was some just decent but not beautiful grass, then perhaps 4 lbs hay daily in addition to grass. If getting grain as described above, the hay need drops to around 1.2-1.5% of body weight. I'm postulating for everyone on the list as well as Pamela. May I caution everyone not to overfeed Fjord foals? Pamela's question was very astute - i.e. she knew there was a difference in feeding Fjord foals vs. the other breeds she has had. There is definitely a difference. Many Quarter Horses today, for example, have done 95-99% of their growth in height by the time they are just two years old! For Fjords, in general, they do not reach 95-99% of their mature height until they are three years old. This means the Quarter Horse must be fed differently to sustain that kind of a growth rate. Remember that Fjords originated in Norway where the growing season was short and food was often sparse. I'm not sure if I can believe it, but legend has it that some Fjords survived harsh winters on fish cleanings (fish heads, etc) when there was nothing else to eat. Since many Fjords are easy keepers as adults, if we allow them to be overweight as youngsters, we will cause their metabolism to slow down and predispose them to serious weight problems as adults. One question that inevitably comes up: But will they reach their full potential if I don't feed them really well? The answer is, YES. A horse has to be practically starved to stunt its growth. A foal's growth can be sped up by providing optimal nutrition, and it can be slowed down by providing only marginal nutrition. But unless there is serious deprivation, they still reach the mature height they were genetically programmed to reach. It may take
Dagmar's questions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Dagmar, One thing you asked was what to look for in an equine veterinarian. Here are suggestions from someone who is one. To me, the veterinarian's personality is the most important characteristic. No matter how knowledgeable or experienced a veterinarian may be, if you don't like them, you will not respond well to his/her suggestions. We had a perfect example of this up until recently at the clinic I work at. We had a veterinarian here who was very smart and also had good common sense. However he was quiet and a person of few words. Around here, people expect you to be friendly and outgoing, and if you are quiet they usually think you are either upset or you don't like them. So, many people preferred not to have him out to their place. The next thing to me would be availability. You want someone that is going to be available for emergencies as well as regular calls. It would also be nice if they had hours that accomodated a working schedule (i.e. 7:30am to 6 or 7pm). Availability of the veterinarian(s) themselves is also important. We used a Pediatrician's office for a while where you could never speak to the doctors when you called; All the receptionists would want to do is have you make an appointment. Very frustrating. Now we come to knowledge and experience. Why weren't these first? Aside from the reasons given above, even if a vet is still a little wet behind the ears, he/she was taught the basics in school (suturing lacerations, treating colics, some lameness work, etc). The rest will come with time. If need be, a referral to a specialist or the vet school can be given for something the new veterinarian hasn't seen. If you find a veterinarian who is personality plus, available, and experienced, consider yourself extremely lucky. In fact, if you find a vet like that, please give me a call because we're looking for one right now! : ) Then Dagmar, when you find the vet who suits you best (ask a lot of horse people who they use and like), he/she can help you with many of the questions you asked. I believe it would be more helpful for you to get the answers from a local veterinarian rather than one of us on the list because you would be establishing a relationship with them at the same time. And something that would be even more helpful, could you spend some time riding around with that veterinarian on farm visits? Some vets like to do this and some don't, but if you found one that did, and you could, you would pick up a lot about how things are done in the States and in your area. Good luck! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
predator and prey
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Sini, When you wrote: Another thing we've been thinking about is the prey-predator theory. Humans are often considered as predators in the eyes of a horse according to many books and trainers. But second thoughts: our evolutional roots are so close to apes which has been proved e.g. genetically that we can hardly be predators. The apes that are closest to us are very much prey animals even though some of them may eat occasional insects that they come across. Although our eyes are at the same side of the head and the ears are fairly immobile that doesn't mean we are predators because apes have the very same qualities. Humans can learn to use tools and weapons in order to prey upon - we are not BORN with them so we must be more like prey animals. Apes nor we have the kind of claws or teeth that are necessary for a predator. You have been given some wrong information which I think may be confusing the issue; It has never been proven, genetically or otherwise, that people evolved from apes. So called missing links have all been proved to be variations in a species rather than a separate and intermediate species. So to compare us to apes as to whether or not one is a predator or a prey species will lead to incorrect conclusions. Also, predator-prey relationships are variable depending on which animals are being compared. For instance, wolves are predatory to many animals, but in regards to bears, they are not. So comparing us to apes when it is really our relationship to horses that is in question, will be inaccurate. Another factor that makes the issue hard to delineate is that traditional predator-prey roles can become blurred. Many people own dogs and cats in the same household, and the two can get along marvelously, whereas in the wild their relationship would be that of predator prey (my parents just lost a cat to coyotes as an example). Additionally, there are other relationships besides just predator-prey; Other relationships include: symbiotic (helping each other), indifferent, adversarial but not predator-prey. The authors who say we approach horses from a predatorial standpoint may not have considered other relationships well enough. Possibly the thing that causes the most difficulty when this issue is being discussed is the terminology. The dictionary defines predator as An animal that preys upon others. We are not attempting to prey upon horses. Instead we desire to control them to accomplish our plans or purposes. And in return for expecting things from them, we give food, shelter, and love. A term different from and better than predator is needed to describe this relationship. I think you are correct in your final analysis where you say, in effect, that horses analyze each situation as it arises rather than just characterizing everything as a predator or not. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: Annual Booster Shots
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mary Thurman asked: Solvway Equine Vaccines has come out with a new Triple E-FT+EHV vaccine (9-way vaccine, if you will). It has everything in it tet/flu/rhino/EWV. Are these vaccines as effective as the separate ones...? Just like any other vaccine, Solvay had to prove this new vaccine demonstrated a certain level of effectiveness before it would be licensed for sale. So you should be able to trust that it helps protect your horse. Trying to decide which vaccine is more effective, though, is difficult. Companies do not usually publish the kind of information one would need to make this determination. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Merry Christmas
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Merry Christmas Everyone!! We are packing the car as I write. We will be gone to Florida for a few days for the holidays to visit Brian's grandmother. Everyone keep warm and drive safe. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
equine dentists
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) This is going to be an interesting letter for me to write as well as for you to read. I was just going to bite my lip on the subject of equine dentists at first, but I feel that it is only fair to make you all aware of what I am about to write, and then it is up to you how you react to it. In most states, equine dentists are breaking the law by doing what they do. Got your attention? Before I go on, let me give you some background for what I am about to write. The subject of equine dentists is a sore one for many veterinarians. Although several of yesterdays posts mentioned that some veterinarians refer their clients to an equine dentist for tooth work, many veterinarians actually feel that equine dentists are unwanted competition. The interesting thing is that veterinarians are actually the ones to blame that there are any non-veterinarians working on horses' teeth in the first place. You see, floating teeth properly is hard work. And although most veterinarians are extremely hard workers, some realized that vaccinating horses was much easier and they would rather just do that type of thing, as long as they were making enough money. So that opened the door for someone else to step in and start doing the work. Now, equine dentistry by non-veterinarians has become fairly widespread. And many veterinarians, feeling the pinch of horse owners deworming and vaccinating their own animals, etc,(which only used to be done by veterinarians), are wishing the teeth floating business had not been given away. So more and more veterinarians are reacquainting themselves with floating teeth. I personally was given good instruction in vet school on the subject of floating teeth, and was lucky enough to end up in a practice where it was felt to be very important and where it is done well. And to give you my personal feelings about equine dentistry by non-veterinarians, I am very much against it. I will, however, to the best of my ability give you a balanced view of the pros and cons of you as horse owners using them. First, the bad news. Equine dentistry by anyone other than a veterinarian is against the Veterinary Practice Act in almost every state. The Veterinary Practice Act is part of the state law, so it is actually against the law. Why is anyone doing it then? Several reasons. One is that lawmakers and the courts are too busy already and not too worried about what is going on with animals. So even if it is ever brought to their attention, they are not too concerned about it. Another reason is that when veterinarians raise a stink about it going on, they often end up being looked at as the bad guys. Most horse owners don't realize equine dentists are breaking the law, and they think the veterinarians are just trying to squash competition. So vets often just look the other way. If someone other than a veterinarian sedates a horse, unless they were directed to do so by the veterinarian, they are breaking the law. Although many dentists would have you believe they have some kind of special way with horses and don't need sedatives, in reality they know it is illegal and most of them have no training in the use of sedatives. Removing a horse's wolf teeth in particular without a sedative is painful, whether the dentist would have you believe it or not, and in my opinion is unacceptable without sedative pain-killers. There is no such thing as a licensed equine dentist. There is no license available. A license like that would have to be given by the State, and as mentioned above, it is illegal for someone else to work on a horse's teeth. Now there are Certified Equine Dentists out there. These dentists have taken a course in equine dental work, given by other equine dentists, and upon passing, can call themselves certified. Here are a few more things you most likely do not know about equine dentists. They do not carry any kind of liablity insurance. If they screw up while working on your horse, and it happens sometimes, you are SOL. This means you will then have to go to a veterinarian to get your horse fixed, or maybe even a vet school or surgery referral practice, and gets who foots the bill? You. And what recourse do you have against the dentist? You can't sue them for malpractice or negligence because they are not licensed and are not recognized as a profession. You did not have any signed contract with them so you cannot sue for breach of contract. You might be able to just sue in small claims court (or regular court depending on the amount of money involved) but good luck as these cases have low priority. This whole issue particulary irks veterinarians - that dentists do not have the medical training, knowledge, materials, instruments, etc, to correct their own mistakes. And you, as the customer of that dentist, have essentially no recourse. Think about almost any other type of work or profession - that is very
Re: Palpation Mid-pregnancy
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Ingrid Ivic asked: I was wondering how many breeders have their mares palpated, halfway through the mares pregnancies? We have a new vet and it's been recommended to have this done at our next Rhino vaccination visit. We've been told a few mares resorb their fetus or abort, some with no apparent signs. Is there any danger in this? It's true that occasionally a mare will either resorb or abort in early to mid-pregnancy, and when this occurs there's very little or nothing to see. When this happens to a mare, you need to do a few things differently. There's no need to continue the Rhino vaccinations. And you will need to feed your mare differently than if she were still pregnant. So two reasons to have a mare palpated at around 5 months are: 1. To avoid wasting money vaccinating her if it's not necessary, and 2. To avoid overfeeding if she's not pregnant. Every Spring and Summer we receive calls from clients saying their mares are a month overdue and can we come check them out to make sure everything is OK. Well, a mare can go a month overdue, so sometimes everything is fine and the owners just have to wait a little longer. But several times each year we will find that a mare is actually not pregnant, and hasn't been for a while! You might wonder if an owner couldn't tell the mare was not pregnant because the mare's belly was not big enough. I guarantee you though, if you have been feeding your mare as if she were pregnant for 11-12 months, she will look pregnant!! And what about those times the client saw the foal kicking inside the mare? That was gas in the intestines moving, not a foal. And finally, why do these mares look like they have bagged up? Well, they have bagged up, but it's with fat not milk. I believe it is safe to say that there will be a few Fjord owners this Spring and Summer that will be disappointed when their mare doesn't foal, because they just didn't, or didn't know to have her palpated in mid-pregnancy. So is something terrible going to happen if someone doesn't have their mare palpated? No. But just as described above, it would have been better for their pocketbook (unnecessary vaccinations and extra feed), and better for their mare's health (overweight from overfeeding) if they had known. And finally, with careful palpation, as most veterinarians practice, there is no danger to the fetus no matter when it's done during the pregnancy. Hope that helps! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
replies come before orig message
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Steve, Why do replies sometimes get posted before the original message does? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
salt factor
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Ann Restad asked: ...what do you think about the salt factor in keeping [horses] hydrated? Having salt available for horses in the winter can help keep them more hydrated. The more salt they lick, the more water they will want to drink. Sometimes people think salt/mineral blocks are only important in the summer when horses are sweating, but they are important in winter also. Another interesting thought about dehydration; When animals (or people) are dehydrated, they are less able to control their body temperature and heat or cold bothers them much more. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
hormones
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hormones have been mentioned twice in the last few days in regards to breeding problem mares (and stallions). In those particular posts, hormones were referred to in a negative light. I just wanted to make sure people realized exactly what hormones are being used for in horses and that they probably don't deserve to be thought of in the negative way they are sometimes considered. First of all, hormones are being used in people for some very necessary and beneficial purposes. As many are aware of, hormone supplementation (estrogen) is used in post-menopausal women to decrease osteoporosis and heart problems. Hormone injections are one of three main methods used in men to battle prostate cancer. Growth hormone is sometimes given to children who are extremely small for their age so they can catch up to their peers. And I think many people would be surprised at how many of us would not be here if OB/GYNs did not use hormones to influence human reproduction. Hormone use in horses is mostly for reproductive purposes. In the springtime when the first estrous cycles tend to be erratic, hormones can be given to bring the cycle into a more normal pattern. Hormones are also commonly used in conjunction with artificial insemination. I put hormones in quotations here because some of what we use is not actually hormones, but people tend to think of them that way anyhow. With AI, the goal is usually to make the time of ovulation more predictable so the insemination can be timed better. When it comes right down to it, in horses, hormones are more for convenience than for working miracles in reproduction. People are in such a hurry today that they want everything done yesterday, and hormones are one tool to help accomplish that. Personally I feel they are overused, but at the same time I don't feel they are really causing any serious problems. When you hear about hormones in the popular press, listen very cautiously always keeping in mind that the news today is more about ratings than it is just the facts. The news media has proven they are not above sensationalism to generate interest in a story. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
straw causing impaction
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Yes, straw sure can cause impactions. It is so tough and fibrous that it doesn't get chewed as well and it doesn't get digested as well, both of which predispose a horse to an impaction. As such, I even cringe a little when I see someone feeding oat hay. By the time the oats are mature, the hay is really nothing but straw which has little nutritional value. Honestly, we see few problems from it, but it still makes me nervous. I'm of the opinion you're better off just feeding oats and a good quality grass hay. Ingrid, it's neat to hear you have heated water buckets. I am preparing an article for a future issue of the Herald, and that is one of the ways I list to help reduce the incidence of colic. One reason horses colic in cold weather is because they don't drink as much water which can lead to impaction. It has been shown that horses drink something like 30% more water at a water temperature of 40 degrees (i.e. warmed slightly) than they do at 33 degrees (just above freezing). Keep in mind that the 40 degree water does not induce them to drink 30% more than they need. Rather it just helps them want to drink the amount they do need. When the water is just above freezing they are drinking approx. 30% less than they really should. Anneli, it was neat to hear your system of winter stall bedding. I had read about that and thought it sounded like a neat way to do it (very deep bedding - clean the road apples out - keep adding fresh bedding). As you said, it provides a lot of warmth for the horses. A magazine called the Small Farmers Journal ran an interesting article about an easy way to turn all that bedding into good compost in the Spring. Put a pig in the stall (the horse is no longer in there) and throw the pig's corn or slop or whatever right on the floor. In the process of rooting for corn and food, etc, the pig will mix all that bedding up, add some fertilizer of his own, and give you a nice end product that your garden plants will love! And then depending on how closely you bond with that pig, you either have a pet pig or a lot of bacon! : ) All the talk about cold and snowy climates is making me miss Colorado. The coldest I ever remember it getting was -20 degrees Farenheit, but otherwise it was very much as Jean Ernst describes for Alaska - a dry cold that the horses loved. Here in North Carolina it doesn't actually get as cold, but due to the humidity, it often feels almost as bad. Those few days when we have the freezing rain/sleet it is downright miserable. Usually, though, we have mornings somewhere between 20 and 40 degrees and days in the 30's to 50's. Recently though we have been having very mild weather as I guess many people have. Today was 75 degrees! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Viagra for stallions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Carol, I can't tell from your post for sure if you are serious or joking about Viagra being approved for stallions, and I don't have Internet access to see the site you mentioned. Since I think you were serious, here's a bit of an answer. I thought at first you were saying that Viagra had been approved for use in stallions. But, rereading your post, I realize you didn't say that. You just said it was being used in stallions (off label so to speak). I am sure that it has been tried on some stallions, but this is unfortunate since proper safety and dosage testing has not been performed. When libido is a problem in a stallion, it is more often a mental/behavioral problem than a physical one. An example is a stallion who has been badly kicked and now is reluctant to mount a mare. So there are not many situations where Viagra would actually help. Regarding whether or not all the things veterinarians and horse owners do to try to enhance fertility has actually impacted overall fertility in a negative way, this question does come up occasionally in veterinary circles. I don't think anyone can say for certain. The study results we read about conception rates and foaling percentages, etc, in horses seem to indicate that things are staying fairly constant. Might these results be artificially high, though, because we are getting more problem mares in foal all the time due to increased knowledge and improved techniques? If these sub-fertile mares were not getting in foal would the general foaling percentages be lower than they used to be? Also, since we have learned about Rhinopneumonitis (Equine Herpes Virus) as a cause for abortion, many mares are now vaccinated for it (the 5, 7, and 9-month pregnancy shots) and there are less abortions as a result. Also, we have learned about the fungus that grows in fescue grass causing abortions and foaling problems, so now that is a problem less often because more people are aware of it. If you could somehow subtract these improvements and advancements from the overall percentages, would actual fertility rates and foaling percentages be down? I suspect possibly so, but no one can say definitively. It would also be difficult to decide where to draw the line at helping a mare or stallion if we were attempting not to select for decreased fertility. Since any mare can contract a uterine infection, can we say it's OK to treat that? It clouds the issue when you realize, though, that some mares are more susceptible to becoming infected, and we can not always determine a good reason why they are. So then how do you make an objective decision? You raised a good question Carol, but not one that is easy to answer. I admire the friend who was mentioned that thinks it may be time to stop trying to breed her mare since she has tried for a number of years without success. If she indeed has the best of the breed in mind by not wanting to contribute to decreased fertility, rather than just being tired of trying or being financially unable to continue trying, then she should be saluted for her stand for the good of the breed. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Viagra and Hot To Trot
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Oh great Duane - now we are going to have all the young colts stealing off behind the barn to take a peek at the Hot To Trot mares!! Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: eyes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Jean, Fjords are supposed to have brown eyes. Babies do have a soft, pretty blue iris until they are several weeks to several months old, and then their eyes turn brown also. Any other color would be unusual/abnormal (except in an albino Fjord which has blue eyes (walleyed) (they are not really a true albino). What other color eyes have you seen in Fjords? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Grabb
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Jean, You asked what Grabb was like. Sorry for the delay in answering. Grabb was 14.2 hands and very solidly built. He had a long back and an incredibly thick strong neck. Even non-horsey people, upon seeing him for the first time, would stop and stare and say What a neck that horse has! He was bred and born in a time when the farm-type Fjord was still the preferred body type, and he would have been able to plow or snake logs all day long. He had quite an impressive trot, especially if he was bearing down on you and you were wondering if you would need to jump out of the way. (He was quite a handful when we first got him - had been kept in a stall most of his life. Glad to say he settled down admirable after about two years). Grabb was awarded 1st prize in Norway for the quality of his offspring, as well as for himself. At the time, he was the only Fjord Horse ever imported to this country with those credentials. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that still holds true today; Grabb is the only stallion ever imported to the US who was 1.pr, 1.avk.pr (first prize for himself, first prize for quality of offspring). At the time we imported him, he had more registered, prizewinning offspring than any Fjord modern times (since the 1960's). Grabb's offspring were not unusually large (probably averaged 14.0 hands), but a curious thing is that the grandbabies very often mature large (often 14.2 hands or more). This has been true of the son of Grabb we bred most with (Leik now at Bill and Norma Coli's in Massachusetts) and with other sons of Grabb. All the sons and daughters we raised were blessed with pleasant features and good minds. You mentioned Gulldua also. She was a very beautiful mare. Gulldua means golden dove in Norwegian. She was also a very dominant mare - herd leader usually. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Grubb
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:51:15 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) writes: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) I know I have heard of this stallion before but where? Help Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline Jean, could this be Grabb, the stallion my grandfather imported from Norway in 1980? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
list subjects all-over-the-place
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) This message is from: Anton Voorhoeve [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do not know much about what the BOD is doing but the suggestions on this list are all over the map and I find it confusing and frustrating. I think most of us would agree with you on that Anton. Remember, though, this list has no formal organization and really is just a sounding board for ideas. Individuals will have to remember that if an idea is presented that they feel strongly about, it is up to them to so something about it. If you or I present an idea and get feedback on it, but do nothing further, we really have done nothing constructive. Oh sure, we may have influenced someone else's thinking, but the only way that serves any purpose is if they do something more about it. By something more I mean present the idea to the proper NFHR committee. When the topic-of-the-day was stallion behavior at Evaluations, I wonder how many of us made a phone call or sent a letter or e-mail to the chairperson of the Evaluation Committee? When we were discussing the need for incentive programs for using Fjords at non-Fjord events, did anyone contact the Promotions Committee directly with their ideas?Now that we're discussing other aspects of Evaluations and member education, how many of us have called or contacted one of the Evaluation or Education committee members with our opinions? Anton, you have some good ideas in your post; Please make sure you send it to Nancy Hotovy. I know full well that some of the committee members are on this list, and that Julie Will graciously offered to take ideas from the list to the Board. But thinking that Julie and the other Board members should try to make sense of this confusing list, with 100 different opinions on 3 or 4 different subjects at any one time, is asking a little much don't you think? Julie said a little while back that she gave each of the BOD members a stack of papers 1-1/2 inches thick with ideas generated on this list. That's really taking your offer seriously Julie. I mean it! Good job! But how effectively could they really wade through that volume of material? To put it another way, if any of us have a comment to make to one of our public officials (the government), it's much more effective if we call or write the official directly than if we just sign a petition. Similary, if you don't like the service at a restaurant, do you have more success with asking to speak with the manager, or just complaining loudly enough that half the eating establishment hears you? Usually the first, and I have no doubt it's the same with the NFHR Board. Let's not waste the valuable discussion generated on this list. Take it to the Board! Here are the committees in case you didn't save it when Julie's presented it before: Evaluation: Nancy Hotovy, Chair, Brian Jenson, Anne Appleby, Gayle Ware, Pat Wolfe, Lindsay Sweeney and Roger Cabic, representing the Judges committee and Board Liason Budget: Roger Cabic, Chair, Dennis Johnson, Keith Brighton, Storrs Bishop Registration: Mike May, Chair, Julie Will, Storrs Bishop Education: Sue Davies, Chair, Keith Brighton, Cynthia Madden, Brian Jacobsen Promotion: Marcy Baer, Chair, Lindsay Sweeney (other members to be chosen from membership) Election: Kit Davis, Chair, plus one rep from each area. Thanks! Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
contract
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks for your responses Jean. I'm not aware that the NFHR has any kind of signed contract with stallion owners. Do you know of another breed that does this? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: A.I.difficulty
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Jean Ernst wrote: ...when my vet took a course in Equine Reproduction at Colorado State University he talked to the experts about my mare, and they just shook their heads when he said it was a Fjord. I want to caution everybody about arriving at premature conclusions regarding the difficulty of A.I.ing Fjords. When I went through Colorado State University (and took all the Equine Reproduction electives I could) in vet school, nothing was said about special difficulty with Norwegian Fjords. In fact, to my knowledge, then (six years ago) as well as now, we are not aware of any certain breed which is more difficult than any other. There is a large amount of variability within breeds (i.e. some stallions ship better than others), but not between breeds that I am aware of. Maybe what Jean relayed is new information, but what is it based on? There are only 15 Fjord stallions with an A.I. license (as of the latest list in the Herald), and none are even very close to Colorado. Maybe the veterinarians at CSU have worked with one or two Fjord stallions, or several Fjord mares, but in either case that would only be a very small sample - dangerous to base any assumptions on. Also, don't confuse the dismal results so far obtained with FROZEN semen from overseas with just cooled semen like would be used within the US (and Canada). The freezing and thawing process has a long way to go before it will work well in horses. On the other hand, many many mares are successfully inseminated with cooled semen. Please don't misconstrue what I am asserting here. This is by no means any kind of attack on Jean or any mare or stallion owner who has tried A.I. It's just that, as we have just been discussing on the list, I feel Artificial Insemination will be an important tool in the future of the Fjord Horse in North America, and I would hate to learn that it was especially difficult in Fjords. If we find out it is, then so be it. But let's not jump to conclusions based on too small of a sample for a valid conclusion. Jean also wrote: I think that before anyone decides to breed their mare using A.I they had better make sure their vet has the proper knowledge and experience and an ultrasound machine, and that the stallion they are considering has had good success with the technique. Anybody can get a permit to Ship A.I. but it is a lot more than collecting the semen, putting it in a cooler and shipping. Excellent advice Jean! That recommendation will be included in the A.I. Information material that will soon be available from the NFHR. And she wrote: Timing of insemination of the mare is very important, requiring lots of ultrasounds, etc, and of consequently lots of vet bills. We may do things differently than others, but the charges when we A.I. a mare in our clinic are usually under $250. Most mare owners could not even ship their mares halfway to wherever the semen came from for that amount. Whenever possible, we keep the mares in the clinic while the whole process is going on. This does save a fair amount for the owners on farm call charges. Would any stallion owners who have shipped semen be willing to comment on what kind of results they have had? Mike, can you tell us how many horses are registered that were a result of A.I. breedings? Brian Jacobsen, DVM ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
A.I. - good or bad?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Steve! Good to hear from you! It's been a while since you have posted a message. You bring a very timely warning about the possible dangers of A.I. Without the proper motivation for using it, it can very definitely be bad for a breed. Your illustration using the Quarter Horses is a good example. Here are two more examples; The popular show horses right now have huge, muscular bodies set on tiny little feet and legs because some people think that looks nice. Also, the mouths of some QHs are being ruined because one of the most popular stallions throws many foals with parrot mouth (undershot jaw) - yet his offspring continue to win at shows and more and more people are breeding their mares to him via A.I. The interesting thing is, at the same time, the everyday backyard QH or the team roping or team penning or barrel racing QHs, in general, are sound horses with good minds. This reveals that there is a schism between the show animals and the using animals. Why is one segment going to pot while the other continues to have decent horses? Because one segment bases it's breeding decisions largely on performance ability and soundness, while the other bases them solely on what somebody thinks looks nice. This illustration brings me to the first point that can be drawn out of Steve's post; A.I. is a tool. It can be used for the good or bad of a breed. If just left up to the vagaries of human fancy, the use of A.I. will invariably decrease the quality of a breed. Why? Because there is often a difference between the most well-rounded, sound-of-body-and-mind horse vs. the flashiest, biggest, loudest, most impressive-looking horse. And which are most people naturally drawn to? The biggest flashiest one. But which is best for the breed? Usually, the good-in-many-aspects-but-outstanding-in-none horse. So how can a Breed Society or Registry (or whatever governing body is in place) ensure that the animals it oversees are headed in a good direction? There must be a plan. It has been said that If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. By extension, If you fail to plan for the good of a breed, you plan for the failure of the breed. The show Quarter Horse industry is failing to plan for the good of the breed, and when someone attempts to use those horses for some kind of performance (trail riding, team penning, etc), in general, the horses fail. The using QH segment is following a loosely organized plan, and those horses are remaining decent. If we Fjord Horse owners, on the other hand, will follow a well-thought-out, well-organized plan, we can succeed where the other breeds are failing and keep the quality of our horses high. The dairy industry is a good example of this planning. Though it is true that much of the genetic diversity has been removed from dairy cows, it can be argued persuasively that it has been for the best of the industry. Dairy breeders have aggressively selected for the cows and bulls who consistently outproduce what came before them and reproduce these qualities in their offspring. At the same time, they have not sacrificed the qualities that are necessary for the well-being of the cows. Good feet and legs, for example, are heavily stressed. Udder quality is another important goal; Even if a cow set world records for milk production, if her udder did not hold up for more than a year or two, producers would stop using her genetics. The winners in dairy shows are based not only on the cow herself, but also on carefully measured performance criteria, and the same performance criteria applied to several generations of her offspring. Call it the ultimate Evaluation if you want to. Which brings me to the next important point: If it can't be measured, it can't be improved. That statement isn't original with me of course, and I don't know who to attribute it to. I think everyone agrees that Evaluations are important, so I won't dwell on this point. But let me say that, similar to what Steve asserted, A.I. without Evaluations will not lead to continual improvement of our breed. However, A.I. with Evaluations will. History shows we don't need to be overly concerned about the loss of genetic diversity in the Fjord Horse. See Mike May's 11-17-98 post for one example. Another is that, even though the breeding in Norway and Holland has not been based on A.I. in the past, it is in effect a very similar system. They have a small number of stallions licensed to breed many mares. And it has worked well for years. The fear that only a handful of Fjord stallions would be used if A.I. became widely available in this country is unlikely to be realized because we have so many different uses and personal preferences. It would take more than just a few stallions to satisfy all these different uses and preferences. The concern about the decrease in genetic diversity leaving
Solveig II, Vanja, and Sleipner
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mary, Sorry to be so slow in replying; There aren't enough hours in the day! I got to travel to Norway one time with my grandfather, and that's the trip where we picked out Valina. Each of us three grandsons were 'given' horses to take care of, and Valina was mine. She quickly became my favorite as she was so sweet and had a demure, almost fey look about her face and eyes. Sleipner was born on our ranch in Carbondale, CO and was sold to Nona Forrester in Rogue River, OR when he was one year old. As you mentioned, Sleipner's sire was Dragtind and his dam was Stina. We liked the combination of Dragtind X Stina very much, so much in fact that we still have 2 of Sleipner's younger sisters on our farm. The Forresters sold Valina, in foal to Sleipner, to a very nice older couple in Arizona. Valina gave birth to Vanja there. I have a nice picture the owners sent us of the two of them pulling a wagon when Vanja was a little older. When Vanja was four, the gentleman became aware of a terminal condition he had, and when he was no longer able to take care of them he sold Valina and Vanja back to my grandfather Harold. Vanja was then sold to some nice folks in Florida. I actually thought she was still there up until a few years ago, but apparently from what Mike and Becky posted, she is evidently somewhere else now. The two horses in Lars' background that I am most familiar with are Grabb and Lenda II. Though we thought all the mares we imported from Norway were beautiful, each in their own way, Lenda II to me was the most beautiful. My wife Barb and I saw her again 2 years ago at Ginny Cowles' Los Trigos Ranch in New Mexico and she was still breathtaking. At 16 years old, she had a two-day-old-foal by her side, and you would have had a hard time convincing anyone she was over 6 or 8 years old. I believe Ginny featured her in an ad in the Herald approx. 1-1/2 to 2 years ago. Grabb you have heard about as I have posted bits and pieces about him periodically. After that, I was off at college so I'm not as familiar with Ljosa and Erling. As your Solveig has a double dose of Dragtind, (he's on the top and the bottom of her pedigree), I'm sure she is a very beautiful and talented mare. Again, sorry to be slow. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
matching mares to stallions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Jean, You wrote: You might include another liability free service to mare owners by directions on fotos of the mare, lineage of the mare and then match the mare to what should be the best stallion for her. With AI available I would consider this option. I want to make sure I fully understand what you mean. Are you saying the mare owner would send in a picture(s) for someone to look at, and a determination would be made as to compatible stallions? What do you mean by 'liability free' ? I realize that something like this could be valuable for a mare owner who was serious about breeding to the best stallion (for that mare). I do wonder though if it wouldn't be much more valuable for the mare owner if the mare herself could be officially Evaluated. Don't you agree it's often difficult to judge a horse by a picture? Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
A.I. necessary; permit fee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Steve, You had mentioned the necessity of A.I. not long ago, and I too agree that it would be important to the success of a program such as we are contemplating. I will certainly be willing to put together a package for Registry use that acquaints a stallion owner with the basics of collecting and shipping semen. I have wondered before why there was an extra fee for obtaining an A.I. permit for a stallion. Would one of the Board members be willing to comment? Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
evaluate, educate, cultivate
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) See how this sounds to you as an idea to help EDUCATE Fjord owners, EVALUATE more stallions, CULTIVATE the constant improvement of the breed, and, I couldn't think of a catchy word to go along with the others, but PRESERVE the history of the breed in North America. I'd like to hear a response from many of you, either positive or negative, so I can know whether this is worthy of taking any farther. Also, if part of it is already being done, someone please let me know. As has been discussed in the past, and Carol Rivoire recently brought up again in a modified fashion, we need a way, whether it's commanded or persuaded, for more Fjords, especially stallions, to be EVALUATED. We also need an available and affordable way for Fjord owners to be able to see these horses being evaluated, and be able to hear the comments from the judge about each horse. This would greatly EDUCATE the Fjord-owning public about what is a quality horse. If those two things above could take place, it would CULTIVATE a widespread and continuing improvement in the Fjord breed in North America. And finally, if the idea I'm about to present has merit and is adopted, it would serve to PRESERVE the history of the Fjord breed for all generations to see. So here it is. All the above in one package is a tall order to fill, so perhaps you're all expecting some incredible, Einsteinian, revolutionary new idea. But I think you will be surprised by its simplicity. 1. Videotape each and every horse at the evaluation ( front, rear, side, and motion shots), and 2. Make these videotapes available to members for a fee, and 3. Preserve each videotape (or at least excerpts - the vital parts of each horse) on CD Rom. I told you it was simple. But you see, there's so much more to it than appears at face value. First of all, are the Evaluations being OFFICIALLY videotaped already? If so, someone please say so. If they are, perhaps this idea can be made an extension of what's already being done. If not, maybe this is the place to start. Stick with me; Here's where it gets good! First of all, Evaluations. A lot of work has gone into them, and they are growing, but what would really help give them a boost? What if breeders started seeing that everyone was getting videotapes of the evaluations, and that people were really paying attention to them and starting to make breeding decisions based on them? That if they wanted to remain competetive, they would have to jump on the Evaluation bandwagon. Think of it - right now things are so regionalized, so segregated, that the only stallions people are familiar with are either ones that are close to them, or ones they see advertised in the Herald. As an example, I don't believe Solar has been advertised as much lately in the Herald: A new mare owner who wanted to find a stallion to breed to might not even know he existed, yet he is one of the most well-known stallions in North America! Here's another example - some of you have just agreed with me that our stallion Leif is a good stallion, but how many of you knew about him? Just because we are fairly quiet about advertising or promoting, he is largely unknown. Yet he has the potential to positively influence Fjord horse genetics in this country. So how will videotapes of Evaluations change that? You can't appreciate what you can't see. Or conversely, you have to know what's out there before you can make the best decision. And I believe that once people started seeing what is out there, they would no longer be satisfied with just the stallion next door. So this would be a method of encouraging rather than legislating Evaluation participation; A way to pull breeders in rather than push them. (This is not in opposition to Carol's latest idea of requiring all stallions to be Evaluated, I actually think that's a good idea. I just wonder if this way would work as well or better. People usually respond better to the market driven need for competition than they do to being forced into it). By extension, either breeders would become more willing to travel to Evaluations, or they would work to make Evaluations more available. The video would be best if it were professionally done. There are services that would video each Evaluation and then produce as many copies as we want. It would cost more to have it professionally done, but you get what you pay for. A charge of $30-40 per video would by no means be unbearable and would go a long way toward offsetting the cost of production. So we've covered Evaluation and Education. CULTIVATION, if I may call it that, or continual improvement of the breed, would be a natural result. People have a natural desire to have something that's good, or to have the best. Something they can be proud of. Many of our veterinary clients only use their horses for trail riding, etc., but they never tire
Tank's gelding episode
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Steve and Cynthia, You wrote about Tank that, As he became more conscious he realized he was lying right in the middle of a lush patch of grass and clover. Let's see then; All Tank remembers was getting a shot from the vet, and then waking up in a patch of beautiful clover. It doesn't get any more humane than that! He probably wishes he could be gelded again! Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Gelding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Pat, To me, laying a colt down completely, the way your veterinarians do it now, is the most humane. Banding, as you described seeing in France is not a satisfactory method in my opinion. Truthfully, I think it is only painful to the horse for a little while (several hours maybe) until the scrotal and testicular tissue has died. Anotherwards, it would feel something like us putting a tight rubber band around a finger; It hurts at first but before long it goes to sleep. But it is not uncommon to for part of the epididymus or part of the testicle even to be missed because they are held so close to the horse's body. Another complication would be maggot infestation as the tissue was drying up and falling off. Strictly on the basis of how humane the procedure is, it would be hard to judge between banding and standing castration. We do the standing castration sometimes, and there is no question the horse feels it more than if he were anesthetized and lying on the ground. However, if the sedative mixture we use affects the horse the way we hope (they all respond a little differently), sometimes they never even budge. For those not familiar with a standing castration, here is some history. Years ago, before sedatives were available, the only way to geld a horse was to lay him down on the ground and stretch him out with ropes tied to his legs. This obviously was traumatic and extremely painful to the horse. Ether then started being used to some extent, and the horse was knocked out and didn't feel anything. Eventually, the more modern sedatives and anesthetics were discovered, and they fine tuned the process even more, making it a much safer procedure. Some people though, most notably race horse owners and trainers, believed that if a horse was ever anesthetized, it took something out of him and he was never as good again. So standing castrations started being performed on some horses. Another reason some owners prefer the standing procedure is that, rarely, a horse will be hurt while laying down (falling down in many cases) from the anesthetics, or while getting back up during when recovery. In the standing castration, the horse is sedated heavily enough to make him sleepy and even a bit wobbly. The twitch is applied to his nose to keep him still and help keep him from kicking. Usually, lidocaine (like novacaine at the dentist's) is injected to try to desensitize the nerves in the castration area. So the standing procedure may be a little safer for the horse, but he almost always feels it more. Interestingly, even when we knock one out completely and lay them on the ground for the castration procedure, most of them still feel it a little. During certain parts of the procedure they will try to pull the testicle you are working on back up to their body, or even flex a leg a little. That's because this level of anesthesia is not quite the full anesthesia like if they were actually in a surgery room and breathing the inhalant anesthetics. However, for all practical purposes they feel it very little and don't seem to remember it. So to me, and I think it would be hard to argue, this last method, or laying them down with anesthetics, is the most humane. As you mentioned, Pat, everyone has a different opinion on at what age and what time of year to geld a horse. Technically it can be done any time after birth, though we wouldn't usually consider doing it to such a fragile creature as a newborn foal. It is a bit of a misunderstand among people in general that the testicles descend into the sac sometime after the colt is born. Close to 99% of the time they are there when he's born, having descended in the last several weeks prior to his birth. So if we don't want to do it so young, then when? Well, it's good to wait until they've had a tetanus vaccination and booster which can be started as early as 3 months old. After that, as long as both testicles are palpable, they can be done at any time. I have gelded one of ours at 5 months old and everything was fine. Traditionally, it is done at sometime around a year of age. This is as good a time as any, because some are fertile as young as 14 months. Many will want to breed before that age, some of it play and some serious, but 14 months is the earliest I know of one actually being able to impregnate a mare. If a person wants the horse in question to develop some stallion characteristics like a thicker neck etc, they will really have to wait until the colt is 2-3 years old. Conversely, it is thought that if they are gelded before 2-3 years old, they may mature a little taller. Time of year to do it really doesn't seem to matter. You'll hear some people say do it in cooler weather when flies aren't as bad, and that's fine, but we do it at all times of the year and don't seem to have any trouble. Horses are able to keep the flies off pretty well down there. Some people swear
information about Sjona
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Who was it several months back that was asking for information about one of the early mares in the country (U.S.) named Sjona 2004-A (or maybe Sonja 2004-A)? Were you needing information about that mare's background? I have run across 2 generations of her pedigree, if it's the right horse. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Keith Brighton's mare Heather, a little Fjord history, and some toot tooting
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 K.J. Brighton wrote: Brian: We have not met yet although I hope to in the not to distant future. We do have something in common as I purchased a mare named Heather I from your friend, I beleive, Ray Taylor in Carbondale, CO. I bought her bred to their Stud Danser. I think this mare goes back to the Jacobsen blood lines. Am I right? She is out of Helge by Leif. Would like to know more about her family tree. She is on the small side but moves out very nicely and I hope to put her with my mare, Bliss, for a lead team. Thanks for the interest. Keith I hope we can meet also Keith. Here is more of Heather's family history. Her sire, Leif, is by the imported stallion Dragtind and imported mare Lenda I. Both Dragtind and Lenda received 3rd prize as three year olds in Norway, and would have been eligible for higher prizes had they stayed in that country. But after we (my grandfather Harold) brought them to the States, they were never shown again. Dragtind was the son of Ola Gik, a first prize stallion who had also been awarded first prize for his offspring (designated 1.pr - 1.avk.pr). As Carol Rivoire says, you can learn a lot about a horse by looking at his dam's sire as well. Dragtind's dam was Goma, a first prize mare, who was sired by the famous stallion Valebu, also 1.pr - 1.avk.pr. Dragtind was the new genre of stallion in Norway at that time. Sven Huseby, one of the founders of the NFHR, was over in Norway after Dragtind left, and many breeders that he talked with there told him they were sorry to see Dragtind go. He was born during the time in Norway when they were starting to shift back from the draftier, farming type Fjords, to the more multi-purpose, more agile, smoother-moving Fjords, and Dragtind was one of the first and most promising of the stallions. Dragtind had a very sweet temperament and he was every bit the gentleman. We could lead 2 or 3 small children around on his back and he loved it. I was only 10 when we brought Dragtind to the US, but I and my brothers (one younger, one older) would routinely hand-breed him to the mares and he handled very nicely. We had one particular mare who would not let Grabb breed her, but was in love with Dragtind. I think she thought of Grabb as the Arnold Schwartzenegger of Fjords,while Dragtind was the Mel Gibson. Dragtind produced many nice foals until his death several years ago in New Mexico. One of the nicest foals was our stallion Leif, who looks and moves very much like his sire. Leif's dam, Lenda I, has Lidaren in her background, who was also a 1.pr - 1.avk.pr stallion in Norway. Bear with me now, because I'm going to make a typical breeder remark; We think Leif is one of the best Fjord stallions in the country! I know, I know - every other breeder thinks their stallion is best too. ; ) But actually, a Leif daughter was Grand Ch. Mare at Woodstock '96. And he has had several grandsons who have distinguished themselves; O.H. Alexander was Overall Grand Ch. Fjord at Woodstock '96, and O.H. Kevlar earned the title the following year. (Note - an itsy bitsy teensy weensy bit of credit for Alex and Kevlar also goes to Julie Will and her stallion Erlend, their sire. Hi Julie! ; ) ). So anyhow, one of these years we are going to have to put on an Evaluation here in the Southeast to put our money where our mouth is regarding Leif. His offspring pretty much tell the story though. Keith, we sold Leif as a two year old to Jim Sutton who was in Pennsylvania at that time. Some years later, when Jim was retiring from raising Fjords, we bought Leif back and we now have him on our farm in North Carolina. I believe Helge may have been Jim's mare, or at least was bred to Leif at Jim's farm. Ray Taylor's stallion, a nice son of Hostar, whom you say Heather is bred to, has beautiful deep rich coloring. That sounds like a neat combination and I hope you have a wonderful foal! I know Joel, toot toot! : ) It's getting bad when no one else will toot toot for me so I have to toot toot for myself. Actually, I was toot tooting for Leif, and I'm not even sure he needs the help. He has never been bashful about toot tooting. He's pretty good at it actually. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Y2K:people are the problem
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks to all the computer people for your input on the Y2K problem. I wonder, though, if your expertise in your respective areas of computers is blinding you to the real problem. This is a people problem, not a computer problem. You have all the faith in the world in computers because you know they only do what they are programmed to do, and they rarely ever mess up. You are exactly right. But the real problem here is with people. Apathy because the economy and life in general here in the US is so good will lead to widespread inactivity and unpreparedness. Insecurity on the part of business owners/leaders whose companies are unprepared will tempt them to be deceptive about how ready they really are and lull people into a false sense of security. The government's unresponsiveness to the people and lack of any competition like private business have will result will result in a slow and generally inadequate response. The easy life in this country has dulled us, and the American spirit is not as strong as it used to be. This country at one time could have easily mobilized to conquer a problem like this, but now we are a country of a thousand different interests with everyone looking out for themselves and leaders who can't agree on anything. Am I really the pessimist I just sounded like? No, but I am a realist. And I am not so sure we will not have any trouble. Brian Jacobsen, DVM ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Y2K
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I've been reading lately about the millenium bug or the Y2K (year 2000) problem, and I'm gathering information to try and decide for myself how bad things might get. Don't forget, if it causes problems for us, then it will affect our horses (and pets and cows and goats, etc). Here's a nutshell description of the potential problems associated with computers and the year 2000 for those who haven't heard/don't understand it. Many computers and software programs will have trouble when the clock strikes midnight on Dec. 31, 1999 due to the way they were programmed to handle dates. Computers see 1998 as just 98, and 1999 as 99. When the year 2000 arrives, computers will see it as 00 and that will cause trouble. The big (potential) problem is not with personal computers, but with business and utility and medical computers. For instance, if the power companies have not fixed the problem with their computers, the power companies will shut down. They already did an experiment at one power plant where they set the computer's clock to 2000 (or 00) and, sure enough, the thing shut down. Forty percent of the US's power comes from nuclear power plants, and if they are not 100% certain they have their problems fixed, they are just going to shut them off before midnight on Dec. 31, 1999 so there won't be any accidents. That would cause a brownout, and probably, due to the demand overloading the remaining plants, a countrywide blackout. Even if it wasn't a total blackout, a problem with a single big power plant can cause a brownout of a whole handful of states due to the grid system the connects them all. This means of course no lights, no heat (it will be the middle of winter), a limited supply of municipal water, or no water if you have a well which has an electrical pump, etc. Hospitals could be affected as well. Much of their diagnostic equipment is computerized (x-ray machines, CAT scan, etc). Some infusion pumps keep track of the date because if they are not serviced at regular intervals, they stop working (it's a safety feature so we can be sure they are calibrated correctly). Medical records might be unavailable. The transport industry may also be affected which could cause shortages in supplies. Most grocery stores stock only about 3 days worth of most of the food items. So if no trucks were running, the stores would not have food for long. The pharmacies would not have medications. The gas stations would soon run out of gas, etc. The US military has millions of lines of code, or lines of programs which are in some way affected by the date. The IRS, as you can imagine, is totally dependent on computers and everything they deal with is affected by the date. The head of the IRS has admitted in a public statement that there is almost no way they will be ready. (Hmmm.I guess there is one bright spot in this whole thing ; ) Actually, don't think for a minute that the US Government would stop collecting taxes just because the computers shut down. They would still figure out a way to get our money and it would just be more of a nightmare than it already is. This is probably starting to sound like an alarmist scare letter, and I certainly don't mean for it to be like that. No one is sure yet how bad things will or will not be, but almost all experts on the subject agree that the potential is there. Some of you are wondering Why haven't these problems been fixed already? Or, We still have a year, isn't that enough time? Well, maybe it's enough time. Here's what has happened. Due to the expense and the enormity of the problem, many companies, and the government, have drug their feet about coming in line or fixing the problem. Also, the computers were originally programmed in a computer language called COBOL which, until very recently, was no longer being taught because it had been replaced by newer computer languages. This means there is a shortage of programmers who know the language necessary to reprogram the computers. Finally, some of the computer chips are in very inaccesible places, like in pumps at the bottom of oil wells in the North Sea. So, the problem is definitely being worked on, but in some cases it may be too little, too late. Possibly the biggest danger of all is peoples' reactions as the date draws nearer. If we do not have reasonable assurance that all is OK, people will make runs on the banks so they can have some money on hand if the banks shut their doors for a while. Fear of a possible disaster will cause the stock market to go down which could result in a panic and wild selling. People will make runs on the grocery stores to stock up on food items, and this will cause shortages even if the actual Y2K problem doesn't. And everyone reading this message will panic which isn't going to help matters either : ). Again, I'm not trying to foment any panic here, just wanted to alert everyone
Re: Packing Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Keith, I didn't want you to feel slighted by my last message. When I wrote in with the names of some gentleman who pack with Fjords, I had not yet been able to read your good reply to the original question. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Pack Saddle for Renaissance Fjord?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Gail, Dick McGuire in Ennis, MT at (406) 682-4370 and Stuart Chappell in Montrose, CO at (970) 249-5741 both have extensive experience in packing with Fjords. I don't think either one would mind if you called. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: wood chewing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Dave McWethy asked, Shouldn't pressure treated wood be avoided where a horse might chew on it? Dave, You're definitely right. For anyone that isn't aware, pressure treated wood is actually chemically treated wood with pressure used to force the chemicals into the wood. When you get the information on the chemicals that are used, there are warnings for people not to handle treated wood without gloves, and not to breathe the smoke if treated wood is ever being burned. Now I don't know anybody who always wears gloves when they handle treated fence posts, etc, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. There are also warnings not to use treated wood for a food preparation or food serving area, and not to allow animals to chew on treated wood. Having said all that, I have not yet heard of an animal that was sick from chewing on the stuff, but I don't think I'd like to take a chance on my horses being the first ones. For anyone who might not be familiar with treated posts or boards, they are the greenish-colored ones and are supposed to last for around 30 years depending on how wet your area is. They are good for fencing - just keep your horses from eating them. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
termites vs. beavers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Q: What's the difference between termites and beavers? A: Termites eat the wood. Q: What's the difference between horses and beavers? A: Horses eat the wood. Q: What's the difference between termites and horses? A: Termites live on wood, horses die on it! Actually, that's putting it too strongly, and I apologize for being so blunt. You all do realize though that wood chewing by horses is more than just annoying? I know the messages lately about wood chewing have been light-hearted, and I don't mean to take away from that, but I did just briefly want to point out that wood chewing is not just a harmless bad habit for a horse. Plywood contains glues that a horse should not have, treated/preserved lumber contains chemicals a horse should not have, and all wood contains the wrong kind of fiber for a horse. Wood has too much lignin for the microorganisms in the horse's intestines to digest, so the chewed wood either passes out undigested, or it sits in the intestines for a while before it gets passed. The latter is the thing that might cause a wood-eating horse to colic, possibly from a blockage due to the wood that can't be passed. So give 'em more hay or more time out in the pasture, but don't let them eat wood. Sometimes a mineral deficiency is blamed for the wood chewing. In reality, though, it is almost always due to boredom or frustration as Pamela mentioned. If more hay or more turnout are not options, paint the boards with hot chilis. By that I mean either pick them fresh from the garden or buy them at the farmer's market, put them in the blender (with a little water if necessary), and then paint the boards. I don't know that storebought hot chilis wouldn't work, but fresh is better. You may think you've tried everything and nothing works, but let me tell you, you haven't tried this! Stand back because the flames can travel up to six feet! And you don't have to be a horse whisperer to understand them when they belch GOODNESS GRACIOUS GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!!! Some of you are thinking, What is this guy, some kind of sadist? But I see others of you already heading out the back door for the garden gleefully but semi-coherently, with a slightly glazed look to your eye and spittle coming out the corners of your mouth, snickering over and over so, you want to chew on wood do you?! Brian Jacobsen, DVM : ^ ) Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
professional consultant for NFHR
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mr. Hipsley, If you are in favor of being considered for a position as a paid consultant to the NFHR Board, would you mind telling what services in particular you would be offering? The posts so far in favor of hiring a paid consultant have been enthusiastic, but have not given much detail. For example, are you offering to advise the NFHR on where best to spend advertising dollars? Are you able to tell the Board from your experience with other breed associations what is the most effective, efficient, and economic way to promote the breed, i.e. getting articles placed in national magazines vs. paid advertising in same magazines vs. just getting the Fjords out in front of the public? Are you able to warn us about pitfalls other breeds have stumbled into? Or would it be more of a situation where just if the Registry runs into a problem, you are available with your experience to help us out? Are you able to tell us now that you have a breed standard in place, your next step is to...? You can see from my questions the general perception I have of a consultant for a breed association. Is this the type of thing you do, or am I on the wrong track? Perhaps detailing what you have done for the other breed associations you have worked with would help us know what is being proposed here. The more specific you would be, the more it would help in our understanding. Thanks, Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
trouble with mare and gelding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Who was it having the trouble introducing their mare and gelding? I wanted to reply to you (actually ask you some questions from the veterinary aspect) but I was having e-mail trouble and had to delete all the back digests, and now I can't recall who it was. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: introducing new horse to the herd
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) DeAnna, Mary Thurman's suggestion to you was very insightful, and I bet she's right on track. You probably know that unless a stallion has been raised with a gelding, or at some point has gotten used to being with one, he most likely will not tolerate one. The interesting thing is, that with some geldings the reverse is also true, and the gelding will not tolerate the stallion. Tuopen probably is being protective of the mare, but it may not be just the mare. He may think he's protecting all of them. It may well be that if you have the colt gelded now it will end the problem. As far as waiting until the end of fly season, I hope I'm not contradicting something your veterinarian has told you, but we (myself as a veterinarian, and the clinic I work at) do not worry very much about that. Horses are good at keeping flies away from wounds, especially an area like we are talking about that is in reach of their tail. And you can help with fly spray near the area. When someone says they're worried about keeping the flies away from a wound, it's so the flies won't lay eggs there and you end up with a maggot infestation (anyone eating lunch? : ) ) But flies prefer to lay their eggs in rotting material, and unless something goes wrong with the castration, there won't be any rotting material there. So our experience has shown there just is not much to worry about with fly problems after castrations in horses. Even after you have the colt gelded, the best place to put them together would be, as Mary said, away from the other horses, and, just as importantly, in a totally new pen that Tuopen hasn't been in and doesn't think he owns. You said you have limited pastures, so I don't know if this possible for you, but it really does make a difference in a horse's thinking. Keep in mind that if the colt is threatened again, he may try to go through/over the fence instead of getting trompled again, so a fence that is the least likely to hurt him would be nice. Hope this helps. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: Lyme
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Dave, Regarding Lyme disease in horses, I'll tell you here what I know, and then I'll have to do some more checking. I have more reference material at the office than at the house. Perhaps Steve W. would want to add some comments if he knows anything more or different. The ticks that transmit the organism that causes Lyme disease are most prevalent in the Northeast and Pacific Northwest. I have not yet heard of a confirmed case of Lyme disease in a horse. However, that's not saying there hasn't been one; Just that I haven't heard of one. We do not have nearly as much problem with it here in the Southeast. I believe that Tetracycline is the treatment of choice for Lyme Disease. Tetracycline is not used much in horses, though, because there is some thought that it may make a horse more likely to become sick with Salmonella. Also, Tetracycline injections in the musce are extremely irritating. So when it is used, it is usually given directly in the vein by the veterinarian. You can see how daily visits by your veterinarian to give the medicine in the vein, or your horse staying at the veterinarian's facility for the treatments, could become expensive. However, it could be used if really thought to be necessary. Any tick bite to a horse can be quite irritating and cause the reaction that Dave described with his Fjord. So hopefully this tick will not be found to be carrying the bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi) that causes Lyme disease. The reference that I took some of this material from (Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian, vol 18(5), pp.551-552) lists several strategies to help control ticks on horses: -Pour-ons or sprays containing Coumaphos, Malathion, or Permethrin. Permethrin is the active ingredient in many fly sprays for horses. -Burning of tick infested pastures. If the fire reaches high enough temperatures it can kill the ticks. -Removing undergrowth and brush, the ticks' favorite ambush spots. -Excluding deer and cattle from pastures. Since winter is coming, that will help us for a while. In general, ticks are much less active when the temperature is below 50 degrees. Some better help for ticks AND FLIES may be on the way for horse owners! A sales rep I talked to the other day says her company has developed a liquid that is poured onto a horse's back, is absorbed into the horse's skin, and provides protection against flies and ticks for 1-4 weeks! The active ingredient is permethrin, the same as what's in most fly sprays. However, whereas most sprays have 1 - 1.5%, this product has 7%. The reason for the range of 1 - 4 weeks is that the chemical can be sweated out when the horse is hot. So if the horse stays cool and does not sweat, you might get 4 weeks worth from a single treatment. If you use your horse enough to cause sweating, or the ambient temperature is enough to make him/her sweat, the duration will be less; But they claim that one week was the least they observed in their trials. As far as reactions or sensitivity to the pour-on, only those horses that are sensitive or allergic to the fly sprays that have permethrin in them will not be able to use it. Sound too good to be true? It does to me too! We're supposed to be getting a sample soon, though, so I'll let everyone know what kind of luck we have with it. Dave - let us know what you find out - not only about your mare, but anything different or in addition to the above. Whites or Trupianos - any comments? Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Marge, Bill, and Asta
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Marge and Bill, Those of us who are veterinarians, or those who have been in a similar situation, admire you greatly for going the distance with Asta in the treatment of her founder. Most people, never having been where you are, simply cannot know the countless hours you have spent, not to mention the money, helping her. They'll never know the joy and hope when she has a good day, and the incredible heartbreak when she suffers a setback. However, how much you love Asta and how dedicated you are to your horses has come through clearly. Thank you. Brian Jacobsen ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
x-rated replies
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Wouldn't it be great if everyone made their replies X-RATED? As Bill Coli suggested yesterday, when we are replying to a previous message, please include only a BARE minimum of the previous message. For me, it's HOT in my computer room, and I get STEAMY when I have to re-read all those messages. Even when I have something cold and WET to drink, I still get kind of WILD when I have to wade through all of yesterday's messages all over again. It's enough to drive a person CRAZY! : ) Seriously though, to allow a friend to keep reading the digest, I am having to break each day's messages into two parts and re-send them to her. The digest has become so large lately that she would have to save and view each day's worth as a text file in a word processing program just to read it. Of course I realize we are discussing alot at the moment. But it would help TREMENDOUSLY if, when we replied, we only included what was essential for others to know what we are replying to - a sentence or two, or a small paragraph at most, usually suffices. Remember that we just read the message you are replying to either that same day or just the day before, and we probably remember most of it. I am not suggesting that anyone limit what they write; Write to your heart's content. Just please limit what you copy from the message you are replying to. I do realize that the friend could receive the Fjord List in the regular form rather than the digest, but she has a reason for not wanting to. Thanks for your help! Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
replies about water drinking, dieting, cryptorchidism, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Great discussion yesterday everyone! Good questions and answers both. -Sharon - From what you wrote, your three horses were drinking approx. 50 gallons total per day, sometimes less. But when the new mare came, the water started disappearing at the rate of as much as 200 gallons per day. Is she doing something to waste water, or causing the other horses to do it? A horse simply cannot drink that much. Even if they were all sharing equally, each of the four horses would have to drink 50 gallons; They would all float away! : ) Does she play in the water? Is it possible to separate her to find out exactly how much water she is drinking per day? -Ingrid - Yes, feeling the ribs without too much trouble but not being able to see them is definitely the way to go. This principle applies to almost any horse, any age, in any situation. If your 3-month-pregnant mare is just slightly overweight (example - can feel ribs but it is a little difficult) then probably your best thing to do is to try to maintain that weight. As the baby inside her grows bigger, she'll need more calories, and the weight problem will most likely take care of itself. It is better for a pregnant mare to be just a little on the heavy side than on the thin side - just a little. In any case, some exercise would be better than a diet. Marsh Jo's warning about Hyperlipidemia is a good one. When this syndrome starts it often results in the loss of the mare. When your gelding still acts studly it may either be learned behavior or he may still have slightly higher than average testosterone levels. Geldings still have testosterone circulating in their system and it comes from the pituitary gland. It is thought that some may still secrete enough to act a little studly. Take away his copy of the Ken Starr report and see if that helps! : ) Regarding whether or not he may be a cryptorchid, If you saw two normal-looking testicles being taken out of him when he was gelded, then he can't be. Regarding the weight tape, some very good comments were made. It is best used to keep up with trends rather than exact weights. Jon and Mary O.'s comment about the scales vs. the weight tape was very interesting. I have wondered if the tapes didn't under-weigh Fjords due to their more substantial bone than most horses (and the fact they probably have 50 pounds more hay or grass in there than most other horses! : ) ) -Linda L. - Regarding how to measure the hay, Marsha Jo was right on the ball. If your gelding is very overweight (can't feel ribs), try feeding 1% of his body weight (if it's good quality grass hay). I bet you'll find that ends up being about what Julie W. described. If he's moderately overweight (hard to feel ribs but they're in there), maybe 1.5%. Or, you may be able to keep him happier and feed him more if you can find some year-old, clean, average-to-fair quality grass hay. He can eat more of it but won't get as many calories from it. Feeding 3-4 times daily is great if you can do it; It's more natural and does relieve boredom better. Cynthia - Very good point!! An easy keeper really is not easy to keep! They're actually more work. We're putting you in charge of coming up with a better term. -Pamela and Barbara Lyn - Interesting about the red raspberry leaf. We don't get much training about things like that in vet school. Where can someone get it, and how much is recommended to give a mare? Thanks to everyone for contributing. Thanks to Steve M. for a good and dedicated job running this list! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
when and why to geld
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mary O'Fjord wrote: Also, does anyone have any helpful information on when to geld colts? Right now he is 3 1/2 months old. What do most of you do or recommend. This is our first colt and he should probably be gelded, although I'd like a couple of opinions on this too. I'd hate to give him the knife, only to find out later that he could have been a nice stallion. One of the vets that we know of says I don't know of any stallion that wouldn't make a better gelding. Help and ideas would be appreciated. I'd like to give some professional advice and personal opinion to answer this question. Technically a colt can be gelded anytime from the moment of birth on, assuming both testicles have descended from the abdomen. You probably have never heard of a colt being gelded at just a few days old, though, and there are some good reasons. Foals are fairly fragile creatures, and we want to make sure they get a good start before we do something like that to them. Also, not a lot is known about exactly how hard the anesthetics we use to knock them out are on a foal. Finally, and some of you will laugh, it's hard to hold onto those slippery little suckers when they're only the size of an almond! There is a reason that gelding colts very young would be advantageous; It barely slows them down at all at that age. Piglets are often done at a few hours or a few days old, and calves are often done at a few days to a few months old. At that age there is very little swelling and very little bleeding. Similar to circumcision in humans, this is not about whether you believe in it or not, but there is no question that it is easier on a baby than it is on a teenager or adult - the babies heal faster and have less complications. What is this thing about the testicles descending from the abdomen? During the foal's development inside the mare, the testicles are developing right next to the kidneys. Late in gestation, changes start to occur that usually result in the testicles exiting from the abdomen and entering the scrotum at two weeks prior to birth. Occasionally, one or both testicles will not have made it out, and this is called Cryptorchidism (Krip-tork-id-ism). Sometimes it will even take up to two years for that testicle (or both) to pop out, but usually if they haven't by the age of two, they aren't going to. Once they are out (in the scrotum) they stay out. The colt may WANT to pull them up into the abdomen when you touch them with cold fingers, or when I've cut one off in a castration and he's desperately trying to save the other one, but once they're out, they're out. More about Cryptorchids later. The traditional age to geld a colt is somewhere around a year old. The reasons here are that you have had time to decide whether you want to keep him a stallion, but he's not quite old enough to have gotten in trouble with a mare. I'm sure he's tried to get in trouble, but he's not quite old enough to fertilize a mare yet. The youngest that a colt ever fertilized a mare (that I know of) was at 14 months old, and the majority are not even able to for some months after that. So really the procedure could be done at any time from 3-4 months old up to around 14 months old if you don't want to worry about accidents with mom or other mares. If you can keep him separate from the mares or you have no mares around, you have some other things to think about. If you want your horse to end up as tall as possible, there is some thought that he will get slightly taller if he's gelded young (less than two years old). If you would rather have him solid and blocky more like a stallion, you will really have to wait until he's around four years to get this effect. Time of year to do it really doesn't seem to matter. You'll hear some people say do it in cooler weather when flies aren't as bad, and that's fine, but we do it at all times of the year and don't seem to have any trouble. Horses are able to keep the flies off pretty well down there. Some people swear you need to do it by the signs. The reasoning here is the following: The signs are determined by the phases of the moon, and if the moon is strong enough to control the tides, then it's strong enough to have some effect on the amount of bleeding and swelling after a castration. The signs are recorded in the Farmer's Almanac and the time to geld is when they are in the feet. I have to say that we have gelded horses with the signs and against the signs, and have not noticed any significant difference in the amount of bleeding or swelling. The best answer is probably this: If you or your veterinarian feels strongly about going with the signs, then do it, or else if something goes wrong you will be forever kicking yourself or you will never hear the end of it from your veterinarian : ). Be prepared to do some work after the castration is completed. Depending on your veterinarian, you might
Founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) The lead-in to this post is in the post 'more on foal feeding'. Founder has been mentioned from time to time on this list, and as I have recently received some e-mail directly to me asking about it, I thought I might say a few things about it. Founder is a common problem, but until you've been through it with one of your horses, chances are you don't know very much about it. If you have taken the time to ask about it or research it in order to avoid the problem in your horses, good for you! The scientific term for founder is Laminitis. The root word, lamina, refers to the structures that connect the hard outer hoof wall to the soft inner, sensitive tissues. These structures are easily visualized by picturing them as fins like you see on a paper fan or on an air filter for a car or house. The hard outer hoof has one set of fins and the inner tissues also have a set of fins, and these are glued together. The reason for the fins is that they give much more surface area for connection and strength. Here's another way to visualize it: Picture an infant's toy where you put certain shapes through the corresponding holes. If you were assembling a horse's foot, it would be like setting a star shape down into its hole. All the inner tissues of the foot would be the star, and the hard outer hoof would be what the star fits into. The itis part of laminitis means inflammation. The fins become inflamed due to some type of insult. We all know how much inflammation hurts. When you get a splinter, its the resulting swelling that actually hurts, not so much the splinter itself. When you sprain your ankle, after a day or two it's the swelling that hurts more than the original injury. The pain is compounded for a horse in laminitis because the fins are trapped between the hard bone down in the foot and the hard outer hoof wall. There's no room to swell but it's happening anyhow! I believe that very few humans have ever felt pain equal to what a horse feels when he has laminitis bad enough that he doesn't want to walk. The insult that causes the fins to swell seems to be a dramatically reduced blood flow to the foot. How we get from eating too much grain, though, to decreased blow flow in the foot is still not fully understood. Likewise for many of the other causes of laminitis which include: too many hours in a horse trailer without a break, being ridden too hard or too far on a hard surface, taking a big drink of cold water when the horse is very hot such as right at the end of a hard ride, a toxic uterine infection, a retained placenta (afterbirth not passed after foaling), being chronically overweight, getting into the grain bin and overeating, overeating lush grass, bedding a stall with black walnut shavings, steroid overdose (not the bodybuilding kind; ironically it's the kind that's meant to reduce swelling - like many of us have been given in our knee or our back), stress, a bad enough colic, unknown reasons. I put the last, unknown reasons, because sometimes a horse gets laminitis when none of the other causes seem to have occurred. I keep saying laminitis, so where does founder come in? When laminitis has been going on for a period of time, say a few days or a week, it is then called Chronic Laminitis or Founder. One reason to keep the differentiation between Founder and Laminitis, instead of just calling it all Founder, is that a horse can get Laminitis, and sometimes with aggressive treatment is not sore anymore after a few days and the whole episode is done with. That horse did not Founder, it just had Laminitis. Kind of like the difference between having a really bad headache once versus having migraines. The largest number of cases of laminitis are due to overeating grass or grain or being overweight. As Fjords are such easy keepers, many of us are guilty of letting them get overweight and putting them in danger of foundering. If you have ever heard that Fjords are so hardy and disease resistant they won't founder - forget it! They ARE hardy and disease resistant, but if anything are MORE LIKELY than most other horses to founder due to being such easy keepers. If any Fjord owner has a horse that is two hundred pounds overweight and it founders, that owner has no reason to wonder What caused my horse to founder? Being chronically overweight is enough of a reason. The better question would be Why didn't it happen before now? Am I scaring you? I'm trying to! Believe me, your horse will suffer much more if he founders than he will if he has to go without a little food because you put him on a diet! Oh I know it's hard not to give him that little treat because he's so cute, or it's hard to lock him in a stall when the other horses are out eating, but it's
more foal feeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks for the thanks Anton and others who have replied to my foal feeding post. In reply to your question, One more question about feeding; is it correct that for the first two years of life a foal can stay on grass all the time compared to older ones who have to be removed to avoid problems? Yes, for the most part this is true. The problems you allude to would be excess weight gain and founder I guess? When horses founder due to what they've been eating (vs. other causes of founder) the problem is excess carbohydrates. Since young horses up to two years old are usually growing fast, the carbohydrates are not excess, they are needed for growth. This is also the reason a pregnant mare on grass alone will almost never founder - she has a high requirement for carbohydrates to help that foal inside her grow. A mature gelding or non-pregnant mare or stallion, on the other hand, is usually getting excess carbohydrates if they are on grass 24 hours per day, and can founder as a result. Back to your question again, though. If that young horse is getting grain in addition to unrestricted grass, possibly there could be a problem. Founder should almost never sneak up on a person; Ninety-five percent of the time it should have been seen coming. See the post Founder on the list for more details. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
re: foal colors and feeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Pamela, Mike is out of town until tonight or tomorrow I believe. I had some information on Capstone's Prinz, and I didn't see any greys for several generations back. I don't have info on Nikki. It is possible, though, to get a grey foal from two brown dun parents. Even if none of the recent ancestors have been grey, it is a recessive factor, and can travel unexpressed in the bloodlines for quite a while. I don't think anyone can give you exact odds except to say they would be small. I know one grey breeder who can usually tell at a very young age if a horse is a grey by the presence of dark mascara markings above the eyes. Does Skylark have markings like that? Regarding your feeding question, how to feed a Fjord foal, if everyone sends you their own feeding program I'm sure you will get 100 different responses. I think the basics you probably used in feeding your foals of other breeds will stand you in good stead though. Realize that a foal does not HAVE to have grain. Man has not (and will not) developed any feed better than momma's milk until they are 5-6 months old. There is nothing really wrong with some grain for foals, but with some grass or good hay, grain is not necessary. If you want to feed grain, however, plain oats or sweet oats are good and should not get a foal into any trouble by growing too fast. Or, a 14% protein sweet feed or pellet is good to use. Even though feed companies like you to buy their higher-priced foal starters, a lactating mare feed (14%) works every bit as well, enabling you to feed mom and baby the same thing. One nice thing about Fjords compared to some other breeds (in general) is that the mares share better with the foals. I really like this as it enables me to pour the grain in one pan and the mare and foal both get a proper amount - the mare gets the larger share of it by virtue of being able to eat more and faster, yet the foal still gets enough. You will see some feed companies lately pushing 16% protein feed for foals - personally I feel that 14% is better and won't get you into as much trouble with growth problems or a foal bouncing off the walls due to excess energy. A rough guideline of how much grain to give is 1 pound per 100 pounds of horse - weigh it on the bathroom scale. If it's hard to tell how much your foal weighs, ask your veterinarian for a weight tape. You measure around the girth with it and it gives a pretty accurate reading of weight. If you have beautiful pasture, your foal may get too heavy with grain and beautiful grass both - you may want to forego the grain. If the pasture is average then free choice grazing plus grain is fine. If the pasture is poor, then free choice grass hay plus grain would be good. By weaning time at 5-6 months, the foal, if not getting any grain, should be getting free choice grazing, or 2% of its bodyweight in good quality grass hay, or somewhere between the two. For example, a 400 lb Fjord foal would need 8 lbs hay daily if there wasn't much grass to eat. If there was some just decent but not beautiful grass, then perhaps 4 lbs hay daily in addition to grass. If getting grain as described above, the hay need drops to around 1.2-1.5% of body weight. I'm postulating for everyone on the list as well as Pamela. May I caution everyone not to overfeed Fjord foals? Pamela's question was very astute - i.e. she knew there was a difference in feeding Fjord foals vs. the other breeds she has had. There is definitely a difference. Many Quarter Horses today, for example, have done 95-99% of their growth in height by the time they are just two years old! For Fjords, in general, they do not reach 95-99% of their mature height until they are three years old. This means the Quarter Horse must be fed differently to sustain that kind of a growth rate. Remember that Fjords originated in Norway where the growing season was short and food was often sparse. I'm not sure if I can believe it, but legend has it that some Fjords survived harsh winters on fish cleanings (fish heads, etc) when there was nothing else to eat. Since many Fjords are easy keepers as adults, if we allow them to be overweight as youngsters, we will cause their metabolism to slow down and predispose them to serious weight problems as adults. One question that inevitably comes up: But will they reach their full potential if I don't feed them really well? The answer is, YES. A horse has to be practically starved to stunt its growth. A foal's growth can be sped up by providing optimal nutrition, and it can be slowed down by providing only marginal nutrition. But unless there is serious deprivation, they still reach the mature height they were genetically programmed to reach. It may take longer, but they still reach it. So, my take home message is, if you want to feed your foal(s) grain, great, just be reasonable about it. If you remember nothing else, remember
more on wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Since my wife Barbara keeps accusing me of having a simple mind (she's joking, I think.), let me prove her right by adding to Marsha Jo Hannah's good but possibly-too-technical-for-new-horse-owners answer to Carol's wolf teeth question.I don't mean Carol, because she's not new to horses, but some others on the list are. Many of our veterinary clients are new to horses, so I tend to think in terms that new horse owners will understand. You do not see the wolf teeth when your horse opens its mouth. What you see there is incisors and maybe canines. To see wolf teeth you have to open your horses mouth and look back in there just in front of the first upper premolar. If you're not experienced at that, it's better not to try it yourself; A horse has been known to break a man's ARM by chomping on it, so one little misplaced finger of yours would not even be noticed as it was crunched! That's not to discourage you from at some point being able to look in a horse's mouth for wolf teeth, but it's best to let your veterinarian or someone who has had some experience show you how to do it. A wolf tooth is often the size of a piece of candy corn or smaller, but only the tip (the white part of the candy corn) is visible protruding from the gum. As Marsha Jo mentioned, usually the only time the wolf teeth cause trouble is when the bit is pressing against them and causing discomfort. Some owners, trainers, and veterinarians routinely just want them removed when the horse is ready to be started in training to ride. Others only have them removed if the horse seems to be resenting the bit and different bits have been tried and did not help. Not uncommonly, a horse will be blamed for having an attitude problem when it is actually an ill-fitting bit or wolf teeth that hurt. Also, visa versa, wolf teeth have been blamed when it is really an attitude problem. It is fairly easy to tell the difference by removing the wolf teeth and letting the gums heal, and then trying the bit again. A closing thought: If your horse is at a trainer's and he/she says they will take care of it (getting the wolf teeth removed), you might want to find out exactly what is meant by that. Some trainers do it themselves or have a backyard vet (not really a vet) do it. Since they are probably not going to sedate your Fjord or give him/her a tetanus booster, and since their instrument is usually a dirty screwdriver, it would probably behoove you to let your veterinarian do it. Don't really mean to make you nervous or suspicious; This doesn't happen as often as it used to. But we still do see it sometimes. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
The Norwegian System of Horse Judging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) First, allow me to reiterate the question that began all this discussion on stallion behavior and evaluations; Basically, it was Should a stallion (or any Fjord) presented for conformation evaluation also be judged on his temperament/behavior? Second, Mr. Hipsley has made the good point that we in this country need more information to make the best choices regarding conducting the Evaluation process in the U.S. To that end, I would like to present a brief summary of how the Norwegians judge Fjords. This information is current as of 1997 and is taken from information sent to me by Tor Nestaas in Norway. I have cut and pasted what I feel are the pertinent points. The official system in Norway is based on the evaluation of individuals for breeding purposes, i.e. against a breed standard, not necessarily against the other individuals in a class. Animals are first officially judged at the age of two, but are only given a grade [prize] from the age of three years [and older]. Yearlings.have traditionally been judged as well, but all young stock (unless they have a very grave defect) will be given a [mark of approval]. All animals are performance tested. The criteria for being accepted as a stallion or graded as a mare is breed character and type, conformation, movement, breeding, temperament and in older animals progeny and durability. All stallions are [examined by a veterinarian]. This ends the quoting. Now I'll summarize the Judging Card they use. Horses are given points in three main categories, and if they are old enough and have offspring, in two more. The categories are: Conformation (includes movement) Performance (includes trotting, driving, and optional riding test) Temperament (a score is given by each of three people: performance judge, conformation judge, examining veterinarian) and for older horses: Soundness - Durability (longevity) Progeny (quality of offspring) I believe I am interpreting correctly when I say there are 50 points available in the conformation section, 40 in the performance, and 30 for temperament. Note that the Norwegians also do a six week stallion testing, but that is different from what has been presented above. The above is for a Norwegian show which is the equivalent of our Evaluation. So the Norwegians do include points for temperament as assessed by the conformational judges. From what Carol Rivoire said regarding Bob Van Bon's comments to her, the Dutch do not. From what Wayne Hipsley said, we in the U.S. are not. All three countries, however, allow the Evaluator (Judge) to assess the temperament if the horse's performance is being tested. The last paragraph was not meant to be an endorsement or criticism of any country's methods; It is simply for the purpose of presenting what is, to the best of my knowledge, objective information. Thanks, Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
drafty stallion/colt wanted
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Friends of ours here in North Carolina have 3 mares from our stock (Dragtind Grabb bloodlines) and would like an unrelated drafty stallion for breeding. The size of the stallion's offspring is more important than the stallion's size himself (i.e. some stallions' offspring consistently mature larger than they are, etc.). They would like to raise foals that mature at around 14.2-14.3 hands and are on the drafty side. The mares they have range from 13.2 - 14.0 hands and are of average to drafty body style. Good disposition is important. They would also consider as young as a yearling if it seems he will fit the bill. Jane and Harlan Sawyer are there names, and they are very nice to speak to and deal with. Their e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Price is not a factor! Just kidding - but I knew that would get your attention. : ) Since horse transport prices are fairly reasonable, don't be reluctant to respond even if you are not near the Southeast. In fact, there are still not a whole lot of Fjords in the Southeast, so they are expecting to have to bring one in from somewhere else. If you are a breeder, this might be a good chance to help your stallion gain some recognition in a part of the country where Fjord popularity is growing quickly. Thanks, Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Jean Ernest's vet questions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Dear Jean, Sorry it has taken a few days for you to get a reply, but you asked: I have a half dozen tubes of Eqvalan Brand Ivermectin paste that are Outdated, ie. exp date Dec 96. I'm not sure how this happened, guess I stashed them away and forgot them? But are these still usable? Considering the cost, I hate to just toss them. Probably they are still good but it's hard to know for sure. One way you could know is if you or a friend had a horse that a) WAS NOT on Strongid C, b) had a fecal exam done and some worm eggs were seen c) was dewormed with one of the Eqvalans in question, and d) a fecal exam was done again a week later and the number of worm eggs was significantly reduced. Sound like a lot of work? Maybe, but the thing you wouldn't want to do is just use them and assume they are good and allow worms to build up in your horses, possibly causing internal damage, and adding to the number of worms (eggs) on your pasture. So when you look at it that way, you would be spending probably $25 or less for the fecal exams to find out if you can save (use) approx. $72 worth of dewormers. If you don't mind the trouble, it's probably worth it. Another question: I had my horses on the Strongid C2x Daily wormer up to about two weeks ago when I went out of town asnd didn't want the horse sitter to fool with giving individual feedings, etc. So they haven't had it for over two weeks. Do I need to worm with Ivermectin before starting again? Or Strongid (Pyrantel Pamoate) paste? I had intended to stop the daily wormer in mid October and restart in the spring, as there is snow on the ground here in Fairbanks, Alaska from Mid October to Mid April. -Yes, you would need to deworm them with a full dose of a good dewormer. If your horses picked up any worm larvae during those two weeks, those immature worms may already be starting to migrate around in your horse's body, and the Ivermectins and Moxidectins (Quest) are reported to be better against migrating larvae than standard doses of the others. If you just re-started the daily dewormer without using a paste (or having your veterinarian tubeworm), you risk allowing any worm larvae that the horses picked up in those two weeks to continue developing inside your horse. Reason? The daily dewormer is only a low dose designed to kill worm larvae in the stomach and first part of the intestinal tract right as they enter. It is not enough of a dose to kill worms that have gotten inside farther than that, or that have gotten in the tissues. - To everyone using the Strongid C or Strongid C-2X daily dewormers, (and actually everyone else as well), don't forget to also deworm your horses with a product containing Ivermectin (Eqvalan, Zimectrin, Equimectrin, Rotectin 1, etc) or Moxidectin (Quest) after the first killing frost or two. Why? Strongid (paste or daily) is not labeled for removal of Bot larvae. Let me risk being a little too basic here and describe Bots, since everybody may not know about them (especially since the eggs can be hard to see on a Fjord). Bot flies are active in the summer and lay eggs on the hairs of horses' front legs, especially around the knee (carpus), and sometimes on the neck and jaw hairs. The eggs are like a small sesame seed in size and color. When your horse licks or chews at the area of the eggs, the larvae get in the horse's mouth and then make their way down to the stomach. One gruesome note - they are not swallowed, they tunnel through the tissue of the esophagus to get there, causing microscopic damage all the way! Once there, they chew a hole in the lining of the stomach and suck blood. Sound like nasty creatures? They are. The good part is that the flies are killed after the first really good frost, so no more eggs will be deposited on the horses until the next summer. So if you deworm with a product that kills Bots after a few good frosts, you can keep your horse clear of them until the next summer. It is also a good idea to scrape the eggs off the horses at the same time you deworm. Realize, though, that the sesame-seed-looking-thing is actually the egg case or shell; Even after the larvae have hatched out and gone, the case remains cemented to your horse's hair. However, if you get the egg case off, you know that the larvae can't be there either. Jean also wrote: My vet here is sold on the Daily Strongid throughout the WINTER believe it or not, as he has seen some tremendous benefits to horses using it, and feels that worms may well be a problem in the winter here, As Horses may munch on frozen manure, etc. Is there one of you vets out there that has some extra knowledge on this? - If you trust your veterinarian and believe he's making the recommendation for the good of your horses, rather than to just be able to sell something to you, then follow his advice - he should know. If you have any question, or even if you
Harold Jacobsen
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks to everyone for the expressions of sympathy regarding my grandfather Harold. As a tribute to my grandfather, I'd like to tell you a liitle about him and the Fjord Horses that he loved so much. Harold and my grandmother Dorothy had moved from New York to retire in Old Snowmass, Colorado. They chose Colorado mostly for the skiing, which they loved, having learned to ski at the ages of 48 and 50. One summer day in 1974 a neighbor asked if he could graze his two horses in my grandparents' unused pasture. What a surprise it was to Harold when the neighbor brought two purebred Norwegian Fjord mares, which Harold remembered seeing in Norway on trips to visit his relatives in his youth. Even though neither one knew the first thing about a horse, they quickly fell in love with the sweet horses, and were able to purchase one of the mares whose name was Kirsten. When Harold started researching these horses to learn more about them, he realized it was his luck that there were other Fjords in the area. These Fjords were 2nd and 3rd generation descendants of the two groups of horses that had been imported to the US in the 1950. Three mares and three stallions had been brought to be used to pull guests in the wagons at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs, and some of the offspring had stayed in the area. Harold quickly realized that not only could he and Dottie keep and enjoy Fjords, but there was also a market for selling the unique little horses. He also quickly realized, however, that there were less than 100 Fjords in the country, and they were spread far apart geographically, and that this was leading to inbreeding. So in 1977 he traveled to Norway with my older brother John to select a stallion. They picked Dragtind, a grandson of Valebu and son of Ola Gik who was a good but not widely known stallion. At three years old, Dragtind had been awarded 3rd prize which is the best a horse of that age can get. Dragtind was put to work back in Colorado breeding Kirsten and a few other mares Harold had acquired locally. Over the years, Dragtind gave us many good foals, one of which is the stallion Leif whom we are now breeding with. The next year, 1978, I got to go with my grandfather back to Norway to purchase 4 three-year-old mares - all prizewinners and all in foal to different well-known stallions. In 1980 we made two more importations, with one of those horses being the venerable Grabb. Grabb at that time had the distinction of having more prizewinning, registered offspring than any stallion for the previous 20 years. In all, Harold imported 19 excellent Fjords over the years. The contacts he made, Jon Hegdal, Tor Nestaas, and Arve Rolstad among them, also made the process of importing horses easier for the increasing number of NFHR members who wanted to try it. Harold was one of the three who founded the NFHR and was asked to be the first president. He declined, though, saying that position should go to one of the other founders, Sven Huseby, who was closer to the area of the country which, by that time, had the highest concentration of Fjords (the Northeast). Although I mentioned that Harold started out knowing virtually nothing about horses, he was a quick learner. We had a very good veterinarian, and Harold did whatever he said was necessary to take good care of the horses. Given the number of horses we have had and the number of years we have raised them, the small number of problems we have had with the horses speaks for itself. Some of that recognition needs to go to the Fjords themselves, for they are a very hardy breed. But much of it goes to a man that spared nothing when it came to anything the horses needed. In 1984 Harold was planning to retire from the Fjords when he sold an amazing 33 Fjords, our whole herd with the exception of Grabb, to a man in New Mexico. Harold would not sell Grabb, but did allow him to go along for the first summer for breeding purposes only. That was where the infamous fight between Dragtind and Grabb occurred, resulting in Grabb's death three days later. Harold could not stand being without Fjords though, and before long he was buying one here and one there, and shortly was back up to a healthy number again. The cold Colorado winters started to make it harder and harder for Harold to endure that time of year in the mountains. At the same time his medical doctors had reversed their position and now thought that a warmer, more humid climate would be better for Harold's chronic bronchitis (He also was allergic to horses if you can believe that!) So he and Dorothy packed up and moved themselves and the horses to Mooresboro, North Carolina, in the western part of the state. I was able to spend that summer, after my first year of Veterinary School, with them to help build fences and get the horses settled in. Harold continued to enjoy the horses there and was active
stallion who is terror in hand
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I'd like to give a pertinent example of stallion behavior that might either 'clear the water' or 'muddy the water' depending on whether you hold to the 'nature' or 'nurture' point of view regarding animal personalities and behavior. The stallion Grabb has been mentioned lately, and as you know, my grandfather Harold imported him to this country when he was 19 years old. Grabb was truly magnificent, but that's a subject for another letter. The thing I want to mention here is his temperment. For most of Grabb's adult life in Norway, he was kept in a stall and the only time he was let out was for breeding. Some of you are already shaking your heads because you know what this does to a stallion. When we first brought Grabb to Colorado he was a handful to say the least! When he came running toward you from the other end of the pasture, there wasn't a person alive who wouldn't clear the fence in record time! There were no teeth bared, no ears back, nothing like that - it's just that it didn't look like he was going to stop. He was quite nippy, but we were careful and he never bit anybody. Now he was by no means uncontrollable, so don't get me wrong. It sounds like the stallion at the Evaluation that people have been mentioning was close to uncontrollable. So Grabb was not like that, but to say that he was a handful is an understatement! Now here's the good part. After two years of being turned out in a pasture with access to a stall ( we only ever found him in the stall once) he was a different horse. No longer were you afraid to be in the same corral with him. No longer was he constantly 'wound up tight'. In fact, he turned out to be rather average for a Fjord stallion I think. You could do anything you wanted to him - trim mane and hooves, vaccinate, deworm, etc. He was still 100% pure Fjord testosterone when there was a mare in heat to be bred, but even then he would listen. So Grabb is an example of a stallion whose nature was actually gentle, but whose 'nurture' made him look like something different. Grabb's offspring, both male and female, have all been very nice horses as far as personality goes. In fact, Leik (pronounced like 'lake') the son of Grabb whom we bred with for a number of years, and who is now standing at Bill and Norma Coli's Blue Heron Farm, is the gentlest Fjord stallion I have ever seen. He is a big baby doll and you can do anything you want with him. We gave him a months training to ride at the age of ten years old and he took to it like he had been doing it all his life. Don't get me wrong, when a mare in heat is around he is all business. But at the same time he is very much a gentleman, very sensitive to the mare's cues about whether she is ready or not. Although I quote this example of Grabb, I do not use it to excuse an unruly stallion's behavior. There are very definately some stallions who are just that way, even if they have been reared in the best environment possible. Here's my main point. Just as has been seen with people, a stallion's personality is a combination of nature and nurture. Psychologists have debated for years whether people are a product of their genes or their environment, but the answer always eventually comes down to the fact that it is some combination of both. And it can not be stated that it is a certain percentage of both, say 50-50, because for example two siblings, raised the same, still respond differently in similar situations. This makes it hard then to decide how one would measure this and reward or penalize it at an Evaluation. The difficulty lies mainly in two areas. First, people's definitions of unruly or dangerous are all different; Some think a stallion should not even whicker at a mare when he's being shown or handled whereas others think that is just part of being a stallion. Also, some people would rather have a bit of a heads-up, fancy-looking Fjord, and some would rather have a Fjord that's just a big pussy cat. So how do you agree on what's acceptable behavior and what's not? Secondly, temperment is not a highly heritable trait. Whereas certain conformational traits, for example, have been shown to be highly heritable, and thus either desirable or not, it is not the same with temperment. Breed a high-energy, hard to handle stallion to a quiet, gentle mare, and you may get a quiet and gentle offspring. And the offspring of that offspring may all be just as quiet and gentle as you please. So where do you draw the line? I agree that a Fjord's temperment is definitely important. It is what makes Fjords unique and is the thing which initially draws most people to the breed. So we do need to preserve it as much as possible. But we must be careful as we consider how to make that part of the Evaluation process. As long as some notation or designation is made that would alert people, I tend to think that for the most part, mare owners
re: Mike's vet joke
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mike, enjoyed the joke. I'd have to blush if I said that had ever happened. ^ ^ ( 0 0 ) * * ( ) I have been tempted, though, to call someone back at 2 am the next night to see how their animal was doing that they called me at 2 am about the previous night! ^^ ## \__/ heh, heh, heh!!! One good thing about being a large animal vet; You have a ways to drive before you get to the emergency. Therefore you have time to simmer down about being called at such a rotten time before you get there! Lightheartedly, Brian Jacobsen, DVM _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Fjords preferring Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) In response to Anneli's question about Fjords preferring each other's company when in with horses of other breeds, I have seen this also. In two instances when one Fjord was in a herd of horses of other breeds, and another Fjord was introduced (they had never seen each other before), the Fjords almost immediately became fast friends and basically ignored the other horses. Speaking of Fjords with other horses, has anyone else seen what I am about to relate, or was it perhaps just an isolated incident? A large 8-y-o Fjord gelding who was top dog of the 20 Fjords we had at the time (excluding stallions - he wasn't with them) was loaned to a nearby friend who had two horses. There, our gelding was low man on the totem pole. The friends' Thoroughbred gelding was head honcho, followed by their small Arabian mare, and then the Fjord. The Thoroughbred being more dominant was not too much of a surprise; He was larger even if he was pretty laid back (calm). The Arabian mare was not especially bossy either, and she was smaller, so that was a little unexpected. I realize of course that many things are involved there - personalities, past experience, age, etc., so maybe that's just the way it was going to happen in this case. But it did get me wondering? Anyone else seen something similar? Brian Jacobsen Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
gestation lengths
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) The results of the gestation length survey are in! Out of 41 foalings, the average gestation length was 341 days. These included foalings from 13 different years, and from several different parts of the country. The average varied considerably by year. The lowest average was 332 days (1980)(five foalings). The highest average was 357 days (1989)(three foalings). The shortest gestation length reported was 318 days (10-1/2 months). The longest length recorded was 367 days (12 months, 2 days). I believe we actually had a mare go 13 months one year (this was a long time ago). I could not find records of her foalings though to substantiate it Was not able to compare colts vs. fillies - was not always told the sex of the foal by those responding. To easily calculate 341 days, count back from your last breeding date 24 days. Don't bother flipping ahead in your calendar to next year - you don't have to. Just look at the month your mare was bred; It doesn't matter what year you are using. For example, if you have a mare who was bred today, June 30, counting back 24 days gets you to June 6 as the due date. Happy Foaling! Brian Jacobsen Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Calcium supplement for mares; Overfeeding foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) To answer Gail's questions: Does one need to take much better care with calcium supplementation for the mare - possible danger of depleting the bone calcium? Can they replace the calcium fast enough, even if you supply it? (50+ woman whose OB GYN harps on calcium consumption). --- Calcium deficiency is not as much a worry in horses as it is in people. However, the mare does put a lot of calcium in that milk, so supplementing her with a lactating mare ration or some alfalfa hay is a good idea. Are there any dangers to the foal in growing too fast. Joint problems (Is there some kind of hip problem that comes from overfeeding foals - I think of the stuff that happens to broiler chickens fed high protein feeds?). --- Yes, foals can certainly have problems from growing too fast. Thankfully, Fjord foals are less prone to it than some faster-growing breeds (Quarter Horses, Paints, etc). Epiphysitis (pronounced Ee-pif-ee-sight-iss) is inflammation of the growth plates of the long bones of the legs. It is a result of either an improper Calcium to Phosphorous ratio in the feed, or growing too fast, usually in foals that are being pushed to be as large as possible for a Futurity Show. A young horse (usally less than 1-1/2 years old) with Epiphysitis often has swollen and painful knees (the carpus) and walks stiffly or shakes when standing still. Balancing the ration and/or cutting back on the protein and calories usually corrects this problem. And yes, the joints themselves can be affected. Osteochondrosis and Osteochondritis Dissecans refer to defects in the cartilage in the joints , and these have been associated with overfeeding young horses. Since mares' milk is well balanced for the foal, it alone is unlikely to cause much problem. When you add much grain and/or alfalfa hay also, though, you may be asking for trouble. From the mare's point of view, if she is not bred back and is getting enough calcium in her ration, she can go on making milk indefinitely. (I have seen a 4-y-o filly nursing her 8-y-o dam; She just never stopped. The mare didn't stop the filly, and the people never separated them.) IF, however, the mare is bred back, the foal should be weaned from her by the time she starts the last 3 months of her gestation; That is the time when the fetus is doing the largest part of its growing, and thus when the mare needs to be able to send the calcium to the fetus, not put it in milk. Also, if the mare is not allowed to have enough of a dry period (time between foals when she doesn't have to produce milk), she will produce less milk all the way through the next lactation. Good questions Gail! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
driving equipment, safety, and training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks, Lisa, for your excellent suggestions regarding safety while driving and some things to check out before purchasing a carriage, etc. They will be very helpful to me who knows little about driving but is starting to learn. Thanks! Brian Jacobsen _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Amish dating buggy
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I have a chance to purchase an Amish dating buggy, four wheel (wooden with steel around them), covered (has a top), for one horse, and it's in good condition. Can anyone help me know what to offer for it? I'm sure it depends on a number of things, but can any of the carriage builders or anyone with some knowledge/experience in the subject give me some idea? Thanks. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
selenium
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mike, Here in North Carolina our soil has sufficient Selenium. Also in Colorado where we have lived the Selenium level was adequate. So yes, there are some areas with normal amounts. In fact, there are areas with high levels of it. Also, a slight caution to people about supplementing Selenium. Be careful to find out that you really need to supplement before you do it. Selenium is toxic to animals in too high levels. Ask your veterinarian or your extension agent if the soil in your area is Selenium deficient. One way to find out for sure if your horse is low in Selenium is to send a hair sample for analysis; Contact your vet for more info. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
trotting help... arena, etc.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Ingrid, Your mare is not just bored with the arena is she? You say she will trot everwhere else? Also, she doesn't have any soreness or lameness that you know of? Trotting in circles (if you are doing that) can hurt more than trotting straight. Finally, do you have deep sand in the arena? Trotting is alot more work in deep sand and some horses don't like to do it. Some also think deep sand is more slippery than hard dirt, and they don't like it. Hope some of this might help! Brian Jacobsen Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
gestation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks to SSlotness (sorry, I can't find a record of your name) and Mary Thurman for the gestation times. They have been added into the average. Thanks to Carol Rivoire for the offer of the gestation times when you get a chance. Keep them coming in folks! Something Carol said in her message (that most of hers had always seemed to come early) has made me wonder; What figure are each of you (Carol and others) using for the expected gestation length? Brian _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
red dun foals
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Mark McGinley and family! Welcome to The Fjord Extended Family! In describing your filly's mane you wrote: My second question is about the filly's mane. It is pretty light in color -- a light reddish / brown. We assumed that it would turn black like the mare's but nothing has happened yet. Will it turn dark? and if yes, when does it do this? As several have said, you may have a red dun filly. If her mane actually has some brown in it though, your chances are better that she is a brown dun (traditional) rather than a red dun. Most Fjord foals I have seen have a reddish tint to their mane, even if they are brown dun. Usually a red dun foal's mane is strawberry blonde with no brown or black in it. Some other tipoffs for red dun - 1) often the hooves are light-colored rather than dark, or have light-colored streaks in with the black, and 2) The eyelashes may be red or reddish. So if she is brown dun like her mom, you wonder how long it will take for the mane to turn black. Most likely you will know approximately how dark the stripe will be by the time the foal is 6 months old. Some Fjords never get a black stripe; it can range anywhere from light brown to black. I have one three-year-old horse right now whose black stripe started out interspersed with white hairs, giving it a salt-and-pepper look, but over the course of the three years the stripe has become totally black. If you do indeed have a red dun filly, here's a neat perk; Bred to a brown dun stallion, a red dun mare will often have a foal with a beautiful burnished color to the face. Good luck with the new foal! Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
reply to the Trupiano's intro
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Duane and Nancy, That's a neat story about the two of you and your family. If you just rode off into the sunset now on your Fjords, it would be complete. (You know you'd both get called back for emergencies though! : ) One question though; When you met, did you each know that the other's favorite childhood song was Old McDonald Had A Farm? Either that or there must have been a DooLittle somewhere in one of your backgrounds! Just kidding! Actually, I guess you guys are about par for the course for a pair of vets. Nice to meet you and have you on the List! Any more vets out there? Brian and Barbara Jacobsen Salisbury, North Carolina P.S. We work for a husband and wife veterinary team. What do you think about that Mike?! ;-) _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
husband wife veterinarians
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Mike May asked: What is this? Is there a rule about Vets having to marry other Vets or what? Or are they the only people that would understand the sort of hours you people usually work? ;-) Mike, you hit it right on the head. Plus, there are the other things: -coming home smelling like every part of a cow you can imagine (and some you can't!), -dinners getting cold, missed birthday parties and anniversaries -phone calls at all times of the night -working 80+ hours per week -spending time together means performing a C-section on a pot-bellied pig on your anniversary (really!) -helping feed orphaned newborn puppies and kittens through the night -caring for all the unwanted animals that are brought home just until we can find someone to adopt him -the list goes on So yes, I think it takes one to understand/put up with one. So to the Whites and the Trupianos - a big double thumbs up!! To any others married to or affiliated with veterinarians - thanks and keep it up! And to everyone else, if you have a good veterinarian that you appreciate, please let them know often! The thing that keeps most veterinarians doing what they do is knowing that you appreciate them. They risk being kicked, bitten and trampled every day, they could be making better money and have better hours by being people doctors, and (as with all professions I guess) people are more demanding and less appreciative all the time. So if you love 'em, let 'em know! Sincerely, Brian Jacobsen _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
gestation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) To the Ofjords and McGinleys, Thanks for your responses to the gestation length question. So far we have an average of 341 days, but that's with just a very few mares. John and Mary - Nice to hear about Sylvi; Grabb daughters are usually very nice mares. Hope her imminent foaling goes fine. Mark- sounds like it was love at first site between your mare FA Alida and the stallion! Even though you were not given a definite breeding date, it must have been shortly after the two were introduced. Nancy Lehnert - It was nice to hear from you the other day. Bet you could give us gestation lengths from a number of breedings? Please keep the gestation lengths coming in. I will be able to add figures on 75 or more foalings myself as soon as I sit down and compare the breeding dates with the foaling dates. It would be nice to have an average figure on Fjords to help people plan somewhat for the foaling. In my experience, Fjords tend to carry somewhat longer than the average mare, as do other draft type breeds. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
welcome
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) To Duane Trupiano, Nice to meet another veterinarian on the list! I guess you have already seen that Steve and Amy White are veterinarians. My wife Barbara and I are as well. What type of practice do you do? Thanks also for your input on evaluations. It's helpful to know that the traveling evaluator system can work. Brian Jacobsen _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
gestation length in Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I have often wondered what the average gestation length is in Fjords. Even though we have raised many foals over the years, I have never calculated an average. Mainly the reasons I haven't are that fewer than 20% of mares foal on their due date anyhow (this is data from all breeds), and watching the mare's physical changes is more reliable than just going by a due date. Still, it would be a little helpful to know. Would you all consider participating in a straw poll? Using the last breeding date as the starting point for the calculation, how long was your mare's gestation length? Was it her first foal? Which state (or province or country) did she foal in? (If you want to provide data for more than one foal, please list them separately.) If we get enough responses to make a representative sample, I'll tabulate them and post what we find out. Brian Jacobsen Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
more practical thoughts on evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) To recap: 1. Voluntary evaluations are a great thing in the US, but mandating them will not be well accepted. 2. Breeders and serious competitors of Fjords will distinguish themselves by participating in evaluations, thus attracting current and prospective owners more serious about acquiring quality horses. Breeders who don't participate will still sell Fjords, though in general more to people only wanting pets or not as serious about breeding. 3. Evaluations will help keep our Fjords more true to their heritage than the traditional American system of judging, which we currently use at Registry shows. Also, since conformational judging is part of both a show and an Evaluation, there is some duplication. So why have both? Now I will freely admit I am not an authority on showing. My grandfather, who starting raising the Fjords, never felt the need, and Barb and I are short on time and long on distance (from any shows). We do consider ourselves serious breeders and are going to start participating in Evaluations though. So perhaps I am overlooking a simple reason for judging conformation (i.e. halter classes) at a show, and judging it again at an Evaluation. If so, please tell me. If not, why do both? Save time and money and just do the one which tells the most about the horse. This would seem to be the Evaluation. Finally, there is no problem to making Evaluations more available. But it takes two things: money and workers. If we as NFHR members are serious enough about this idea, we can make it happen. Sincerely, Brian Jacobsen _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Spring Sales List
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch, Barb and Brian Jacobsen, will soon be sending out a Spring Sales List via regular mail to the general membership (NFHR). If you would be interested in receiving it via e-mail, sooner than the regular mailing, please e-mail us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] As an enticer, we have two very special foals on the ground already this year. One, a filly, combines the best of the bloodlines of Grabb, Solar, and Konggard. The other, a colt, owes his good qualities to Dragtind, Solar, and Konggard. Since Dragtind may not be familiar to some of you, he is the sire of our stallion Leif, who is the sire of Old Hickory Farm's Bragda, and is the grandsire of OHF's Kevlar and Alexander. These names may be more familiar to you as they are Woodstock Champion horses. We are expecting six foals total, and also have for sale a yearling filly (Leif and Solar are sire and grandsire, respectively), a matched pair of 4-y-o geldings well started in pulling/driving (they're good-sized - 14.2 and 14.3 hands), a 2-y-o gelding, and a yearling gelding. Please let us know if you would like the e-mail sales list. Thanks, Brian _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
practical thoughts on evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) The things that have been said about the need for Evaluations have been excellent, though some of it will not work in the United States. I hope to offer a very practical take on Evaluations in this country. First, they are an excellent tool and should be taken advantage of by anyone serious about their fjords - using or breeding. Few other breeds in this country have anything of the sort, and it has the potential to improve/keep the quality of the Fjord Horse in this country very high. The problem is, this is America, the land of freedom, where people have the attitude no one is going to tell me what to do with my horse! That is why mandatory evaluations of stallions or mares will never fly in the Fjord breed in this country. If we, as a Registry, would have had the foresight to start out that way, then yes, it could have worked. Since my family was involved in starting the Registry, I'm willing to take any responsibility/blame there is to take. But since it wasn't started that way, if the Registry now tried to implement mandatory evaluations and control over breeding animals, many or even most members would not be in favor of it at this point. However, I'm not sure that the way things are is all bad. Think, for a minute, about the breeds in this country who are controlled by strict licensing standards for breeding (Freisans, Trakheners, etc); Are they widely popular and widely available here in the US? No, they are not, mainly for three reasons: 1) most of them are not multi-purpose, including not necessarily being great as children's horses or pets, 2) cost, and 3) breeding controls. The first two are self-explanatory. (To anyone who owns such a horse, I am not saying a single thing bad about them; They are just not used for the same purpose as Fjords. Or, to say it another way, They haven't been bred to fill all the needs/purposes a Fjord is supposed to fill). So I'd like to expand on number three - breeding controls. We in the US are trying to make Fjords as widely available as possible, while at the same time maintaining the perception of value such that they are worth a fair amount more than just an average horse. Breeding controls, however, limit availability and raise the cost even higher. Thus we would be working against ourselves to try and implement mandatory evaluations where only approved animals could breed. The thing that breeders have to remember, is that they probably come out better with evauations being voluntary. The fact that there are a number of average Fjords out there (note: most average Fjords would be better than average compared to other breeds) means that the truly special Fjords stand out even more. There are plenty of people out there who want quality animals. So any breeder (or user) who is willing to distinguish her/himself at an Evaluation will benefit. I think it is fair to say, then, that evaluations are a very good thing. And although there are good aspects to a mandatory system, in the US probably the best thing is to keep them voluntary and continue working to make them as available as possible. Here's a thought though; How about replacing the traditional American system of judging, as we do at the Fjord shows, with evaluation instead. Now I know that often an Evaluation will be held in conjunction with a show, and I know many of the judges have been trained in Europe, but that is not what I mean. At the show, horses and people are judged according to two broad criteria: innate qualities of conformation and ability, and performance qualities in competitions with each other. In the areas of innate qualities (the halter classes for example) Instead of placing horses by comparing against each other, and ending up with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, etc., lets judge and place them only against the standard, and judge them in several areas, not just halter for instance. Now my reason for suggesting this is not that anyone should be afraid of competetion, but that judging the traditional American way leads to change of the breed. Which horse wins becomes, eventually, based more on politics and judges preferences than true quality of the horse. (If you don't believe me, ask a Quarter Horse or Paint owner who shows competitively). I would like to think that this would be less the case when judging against the standard, and not the other horses at the show. And I know the Fjord judges are fully qualified to judge that way - they do it at the Evaluations already. I have to go to work right now. I'd like to develop this a little more. Before anyone flies off the handle, please make sure you really understand what I'm saying. If you're not sure, please wait until tonight when I will try to get back on the computer and continue. Brian Jacobsen Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy
a funny sheath cleaning incident
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN)
In our freshman year of vet school we had a very good and well-liked
anatomy instructor. One day she related the following experience about
sheath cleaning to us.
I will change her name for the sake of internet privacy.
Dr. Blush had always cleaned her gelding's sheath religiously, and he was
usually very good about it. One day, shortly after moving to a new house
and pasture, she noticed her horse standing right by the water hose,
relaxed, with everything hanging out. Always prepared to clean his
sheath, she grabbed her bucket of materials and went to work. For some
reason though, that day he gave her a terrible time about getting the
whole thing done. One whole hour later, after much exertion and
struggle, she finally finished. Exhausted, she straightened up and
turned around. Much to her chagrin, she saw all her new non-horsey
neighbors lining the fence. It was fairly easy to tell from the
expressions on their faces that they were wondering what in the world she
was doing to that horse!
Well, she tried to explain, but was never quite sure they believed her.
I think you can understand why then, she didn't live there for very long!
: {)
Brian J.
Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch
Salisbury, North Carolina
P.S. Don't let this dissuade you from cleaning your gelding's sheath.
Perhaps just prep the non-horsey neighbors first!
P.P.S. For those fairly new to horses (or new to geldings) - here are
two things that haven't (I don't think) been mentioned about cleaning
sheaths. 1) If your gelding (or stallion for that matter) makes makes a
funny squawking or sucking noise when he runs, it MAY BE that his
sheath needs to be cleaned. At times I have heard mares making similar
noises and I think that may coming from the intestines. 2) If your male
horse seems to be straining unusually hard to urinate, or his urine comes
out in a wide spray instead of a stream, he may have a bean that needs
to be removed, as has been mentioned. The bean is a conglomeration of
sweat, dirt, and secretions (smegma - what a term!) that forms in a
cavity at the end of the penis. In the interest of health and
cleanliness, cleaning the sheath and penis, etc. twice a year is probably
sufficient unless you are blessed, as some have indicated, to have a
horse who stays very dirty in that area. Stallions do not generally get
as dirty because they like to show off much more. I have seen, one time,
a gelding who couldn't urinate because he had accumulated such a big
bean. Also, your twice-yearly exam may reveal a sore or cancer that
needs some attention. Often if a problem in this area is caught early,
it can be dealt with, whereas if it has gone on unnoticed for some time,
it may be too late.
_
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Reply about Fjord colors
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Meredith, The following information about Fjord coloring is summarized from a paper by Tor Nestaas who is an official in the Norwegian Department of Agriculture (not exactly what they call it). Mr. Nestaas took his information from a thesis by the late Johs. Loen and from conversations with Kari Ann Indrebo, both in Norway. Fjord coloring is controlled by a number of factors, but three main genes are responsible: B - gene for black A - gene for limitation of black C - gene for color or dilution of color Any Fjord that has black coloring (brown dun, grey dun, and white dun) has a dominant copy of the gene B. Those without black (red and yellow duns) have a recessive copy of it. Brown duns and white duns also have a dominant copy of the gene A which limits the black, so most of these horses do not have as much black or smoky color as a grey does. Grey duns have a recessive copy of it, so their black or dark coloring is not as restricted. Some red and yellow duns have a dominant copy, and some have recessive, but it doesn't matter because they do not express black because of gene B. Brown duns, red duns, and some grey duns have only a dominant copy of the gene C, meaning there is no dilution of their color. Yellow duns, white duns, and some grey duns have the dilution factor present. Some practical results of these factors: (some things will be repeated, but it is presented this way to make it easy to find the results of breeding your own mare or stallion with the same or other colors): 1. Breeding a BROWN dun to either a BROWN, RED, or CERTAIN GREY duns: Theoretically, only brown dun, red dun, or grey dun offspring can result. The diluted colors, yellow dun and white dun, should not be possible. And any grey dun that resulted would have a dominant copy of the gene for dilution (C), meaning dilution is not expressed. (Usually a dominant copy of something means it IS expressed, but not with dilution). This means that, bred back to brown duns, red duns, or similar grey duns (no dilution) , those are still the only colors possible in the offspring (brown, red, and grey). How can you tell which greys are dominant for dilution (dilution is not expressed in offspring) and which are recessive (dilution is expressed in offspring)? Good question. You can't tell by looking. Comparing the colors and genetics of the greyhorse's parents and offspring is the only way short of DNA testing (not the DNA testing the Registry requires - this is much more involved) - Breeding BROWN dun to a YELLOW, WHITE, or GREY WHO HAS THE DILUTION FACTOR: Any color could result except albino. *NOTE* there is one genotype (combination of genes) of brown dun that, when bred with other brown dun or red duns, only results in brown dun. If you like brown dun and don't particularly care for red dun, having a horse like this would be a bonus. Note, however, that it would take many breedings to be sure this was the case with your horse; Having a brown dun foal 3 out of 3 times is not nearly enough, especially if the horse has never been bred to a red dun. 2.. Breeding RED dun to RED dun: Always results in a red dun. -Breeding RED dun to YELLOW dun: Results in either red or yellow dun only. -Breeding a RED to a BROWN or GRAY WITHOUT DILUTION FACTOR: Same as #1. -Breeding a RED to a WHITE OR GRAY WITH DILUTION FACTOR: Any color is possible. 3. Breeding a GRAY WITHOUT THE DILUTION FACTOR to a BROWN, RED, OR ANOTHER GRAY WITHOUT THE DILUTION FACTOR: Can give brown, red or grey (also without the dilution factor). -Breeding a GREY WITHOUT THE DILUTION FACTOR to a YELLOW OR WHITE DUN: Can result in any color. - Breeding a GREY WITH THE DILUTION FACTOR to ANY OTHER COLOR: Can result in any color. *NOTE* There is one genotype (combination of genes) of grey duns that, when bred with another grey, can only produce grey horses. If you are lucky enough to have a Fjord like that, we have some grey dun breeders in the Registry who would love to talk to you. Again, getting a grey twice out of two breedings, for example, is not good enough to say for sure that this is the case with your horse. 4. Breeding YELLOW or WHITE duns to BROWN, RED, AND GRAYS WITHOUT THE DILUTION FACTOR: Can result in any color, but not albino. -Breeding YELLOW or WHITE duns to YELLOW, WHITE, AND GRAYS WITH THE DILUTION FACTOR: Can produce any of the colors, including ALBINO. Note, however, this is not a true albino because they have blue eyes. They are instead, a very white horse. (Not recommended for areas of the world that get a lotof snow : ) Remember
Fwd: worms, daily dewormers, Quest
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I apologize for being slow to write back with what I was going to say about Quest (tm). To my knowledge, Quest has not yet been known to hurt a horse when it was used properly. When used improperly, though, it seems to be less forgiving than some of the other pastewormers we're used to. The sales rep for the company that makes Quest told me about a pony here in North Carolina that had actually died shortly after being dewormed with it. However, he claimed that the pony had been extremely overdosed. It seems the owner was accustomed to giving her 250 pound pony a whole tube of pastewormer and had never had trouble with the other brands. When she did it with Quest, though, within a few hours the pony started displaying neurological signs which progressed to seizures and then death. Even though I'm embarrassed to relate it, I personally saw the effects of Quest dosed improperly also. I dewormed some of the horses with Quest one day, and since I was short on time, was going to give it to the rest when I had more time. Two weeks later I did deworm the rest, but mistakenly also repeated it with one horse that had gotten it two weeks earlier. The proper dose was used each time, but obviously you're not supposed to use it again that soon. Three days later my horse was showing signs of abdominal discomfort (colic). To make a long story short, he recovered quickly and uneventfully with several days worth of a Pepto Bismol type medication for stomach irritation. Whereas a double dose of the other common pastewormers would have caused no untoward side effects, especially two weeks apart, it seems that Quest can cause problems. I do take full responsibility though, for (unintentionally) using it wrong. On the positive side, one of my year-and-a-half old geldings had a bit of a pot belly that frequent deworming (tube and paste) and what should have been proper nutrition had not improved. Within three weeks after using the Quest, there was a noticeable improvement with a trimmer, more appealing abdominal shape. To summarize, I and the veterinarians I work for and with feel that Quest should be a good dewormer to use in a rotation with several others of the good ones we already have. IMPORTANT POINT - rotation. Neither the Ivermectins (Zimectrin (tm), Equimectrin (tm), Eqvalan (tm), Rotectin 1 (tm)) nor Moxidectin (Quest (tm)) are very effective against tapeworms. Although in general tapeworms are one of the species we see the least problems with, exclusive use of the dewormers listed above can result in a buildup of tapeworms resulting in impaction colic. As an example of this, in veterinary school I saw a horse that had to be euthanized due to an impaction of unknown cause that was not responding to medical treatment (surgery was not an option financially for the owners). The autopsy revealed many tapeworms packed together and blocking the intestines. Since then I have seen 2 or 3 more that luckily did respond to medical treatment, and, subsequent to treatment for tapeworms (the fecal exam revealed that's what the problem was), have not had a reoccurance. Someone paricipating in the Fjordhorse Digest wrote (maybe a week ago?) that they used Zimectrin exclusively every two months; I hope they see this to know that can cause problems. Now, to answer some good questions: Dave McWethy wrote: I had a fecal test done for a couple of my mares this fall, and the result was negative. I questioned that, wanting some more detail, and they said, Negative, we didn't see anything. What am I to make of that? Should we have looked at another sample? A negative result means (1) your horses do not have any worms (possible but doubtful - that's almost impossible to achieve), (2) there were no worms in your horses that were laying eggs at that time (not mature yet, encysted, or migrating), (3) eggs were being laid, but since only about 1/2 teaspoon of stool is used in the test, none were in the test samples, and (4) the veterinarian/technician missed seeing eggs that really were there in the fecal samples. Since numbers 1 and 4 are unlikely, the most likely answer is number 2 or 3, most likely #2. Dave also asked: So what do you do, Brian, for worming of your horses? I try to keep the number of horses per pasture to a minimum, harrow the pastures in hot, dry weather only (worms thrive in wet, and don't mind cold - if you harrow in these conditions you will help the worms by spreading them out but not killing them), and deworm (tube and paste) each 8 weeks with Pyrantel Pamoate products (Strongid (tm), Rotectin 2 (tm)) and Ivermectin products (Zimectrin (tm), Equimectrin (tm), Eqvalan (tm), Rotectin 1 (tm)), and each 12 weeks with Moxidectin (Quest (tm) on a rotating schedule. Hmmm.that sounds about as clear as mud. : ) Anotherwards, I go Pyrantel Pamoate, Ivermectin, Moxidectin, although not always in that exact order and I don't
anaerobic activity in horses
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Dave McWethy asked whether I knew the point at which a horse's excercise became anaerobic. Although I think there is somewhat of a standard figure for people (i.e. exercise becomes anaerobic after so many minutes of hard work) I have never seen a similar figure stated for horses. Brian J. Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, NC _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Quest paste-wormer
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Wow - what a can of worms Steve has opened with his question about the newest paste wormer! (see vol#14) I'd also like to answer Julie's question to me, and add some details to what Marsha Jo wrote. First though, how about a brief review of worms' basic life cycles. Almost all horses have helminth intestinal parasites (worms) in their bodies. When these worms are mature enough, they mate and lay eggs which are passed out with the horses' manure and deposited on your pasture. These eggs hatch after a week or so, and the larvae climb up onto a blade of grass waiting to be eaten by your horse. When they have been eaten, and this is a very important point, they DON'T just sit there in the intestines eating what your horse is supposed to be getting. Instead they burrow through the intestinal wall and can travel to several favorite vacation spots: lungs, liver, and cranial mesenteric artery especially. When I say burrow, I do actually mean burrow, and they can cause quite a bit of damage while doing it. After a period of time there they find their way back to the intestines to breed and lay eggs and perpetuate the species. Some species of female worms can lay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of eggs each day!! One type of worms, called small strongyles, has a sinister variation on this theme, where, after they have been eaten and arrive in the intestines, instead of vacationing they encyst or form a cyst and hibernate in the wall of the intestine. It seems they may be waiting for one of two things to happen: 1. For things to become less crowded in the intestine; Too many worms means too much competition. Or 2, for outside weather conditions to become more favorable for survival of the eggs they would like to produce. One study showed they could stay in their cysts for 2 years or more! Why did I say this was sinister? Up until recently, no dewormer could kill the encysted strongyles. Now, about dewormers. We decide it's time to deworm our horses so we go get the paste. Once they've swallowed it we know they're good for about 6- 8 weeks, right? Wrong. Here's where the 6-8 weeks comes from. Studies have shown that after using pyrantel pamoate (Strongid (tm) or Rotectin 2 (tm) tm=trademark), worm egg levels start rising again in about 6 weeks. After using something with the active ingredient Ivermectin (Zimectrin (tm), Equimectrin (tm), Rotectin 1 (tm), Eqvalan (tm), etc), egg levels start rising in about 8 weeks. So think about that. If egg counts are rising by about 6-8 weeks, we had to have mature worms in there to lay eggs, right? I didn't tell you this previously, but it takes about six weeks for some types of worms to mature enough to lay eggs. This means that your horse was reinfested immediately after you gave him the pastewormer. So, while many people are under the mistaken impression, as I used to be, that there is no worm activity going on in that 6 weeks, actually the worms have gotten right back in there shortly after you used the pastewormer and are burrowing and 'vacationing', etc., and causing damage. Why, then, do we use that 6-8 weeks as a guideline if it's not really protecting our horses from the worms? The reason is that while it is practically impossible to eliminate worms from your pasture, we can try to keep the levels down by killing some worms every 6-8 weeks, just before they become old enough to reproduce and flood your pastures with eggs. Over time this is an effective method to reduce (but not eliminate) the worm burden on a pasture. What would you have to do to actually rid your pastures of worms and keep them gone? The best way is to PICK UP THAT MANURE! And we all know how fun that is! In theory though, if you picked up manure once weekly (it takes a week or more for the worms to hatch and crawl up on the grass) you could achieve close to total control. If any of you are control freaks, here's a big project for you! : ) It could still take several years, though, because remember the encysted strongyles, waiting in there for you to slack up on your road apple picking? What's another strategy? Strongid-C (tm) is a dewormer that you feed daily which is supposed to kill the larvae as soon as they enter the stomach/intestines and not allow any eggs to be produced. Also nice is that it helps prevent any damage by 'vacationing' larvae. Still, having said all that, the tried and true method of spot deworming (paste every 6-8 weeks) seems to do a decent job in most horses, even though you know there is some larval migration going on. So it is up to you (hopefully with some input from your veterinarian) to decide which is the best program in your situation. Now how about Quest (tm) (active ingredient moxidectin)? Mostly all we have to go on right now is information from the FDA trials for approval of the dewormer. The company claims it takes 84 days before you see significant levels
Request for help registering Torden
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Hi Amy and Steve! Nice to meet you! It's nice to hear where Torden is, and I believe I will be able to help you register him. Please see the e-mail I've sent to you directly for that information. We'd love to hear more about Torden, since we sold Vorina when she was in foal with him, and we never actually got to see him. Sincerely, Brian _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Fjords tolerating heat, Spring grass
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) From Brian and Barb Jacobsen: We're having a bit of e-mail trouble and hadn't yet been able to reply to Saskia's letter to us and to Cynthia's query about Fjords tolerating the heat in the Southeast. My apologies to the list hosts if I did not send this to the correct address; At the moment I can't get to the letter from the other day telling how to address letters. Sue did a wonderful job with her reply about the heat, though. I do feel that the Fjords actually are bothered less by the heat than most other horses I see in veterinary practice. They sweat less and spend less time in the shade as Sue said. I believe it might have more to do with color than breed in general. There is one other thing I think is a possibility though; They like to eat so much, they just don't worry about anything else. When you're a Fjord, and there's a blade of grass that has so far escaped your teeth, then there's no resting until its been eaten! : ) Saskia - thanks for putting us on the web page. Incidently, regarding the little advertisement that Juno (our e-mail provider) puts at the end of each message, just ignore it if you can. We have no choice about whether it's there or not. In fairness to Juno, though, they do provide a good service for free e-mail as long as you don't mind looking at some ads they send you each time you get mail. You don't have to have an internet provider to use Juno - just a computer and modem. SPRING TALL GRASS WARNING! Probably everyone on the list is aware of it, especially since green grass has been discussed here in the last few days, but please be careful! Yes horses can founder on just grass. Doubtless there will be a few Fjords somewhere this Spring that will do it. Who's most at risk? - overweight horses or those who have foundered before. Want a quick check to see if your horse is overweight? - feel for some ribs. Can't feel them, or it's difficult to feel them? - Old Blakken needs to be on a diet and needs no or very little fresh green grass. Also remember to introduce him/her to it gradually. Putting a Fjord who has been getting only hay and grain, out on fresh green grass for more than 5-10 minutes the first day is asking for a gas colic. Kinda like if you or I were on a steady diet of say, rice, and then went and binged at an authentic Mexican restaurant. You know what I mean. : ) Brian _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
A lurker emerges
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) If we have been on the list only two days and have not yet written in, does that make us lurkers? : ) Brian and Barb Jacobsen, ex-lurkers, would like to say hi and introduce ourselves. We raise Fjords in Salisbury, North Carolina (close to Charlotte) on our Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch. Brian and his grandfather Harold Jacobsen started raising Fjords in 1974 in Carbondale, Colorado. After a number of wonderful years in Colorado, Harold and Dorothy, his wife, moved to North Carolina for a warmer climate, and they brought the horses with them. Brian and Barbara followed later after they both graduated from veterinary school. We have 22 Fjords at present, including two new arrivals (new foals), with 5 more foals due shortly. Some of our horses descend from the Norwegian stallions Grabb and Dragtind, whom we imported years ago, and from some of the many good mares we also imported. We like to keep our genetic base broad, and so we periodically purchase good young mares of different bloodlines. Our three stallions, Leik, Leif, and Arve represent some very good Fjord blood: Grabb, Ola Gik, Torbjorn, Lidaren, and Valebu, and the imported stallions Solar and Konggard. Our main stallion for the last 8 years, Leik (pronounced 'lake') will soon be standing at Bill and Norma Coli's Blue Heron Farm in Massachusetts. We wish the Coli's well with Leik as he is a wonderful stallion. We have been doing our thing fairly quietly down here in North Carolina. I don't mean to turn this into an ad but if anyone would like information about our horses, please e-mail. Thanks to the organizers of this Fjord forum. We're looking forward to enjoying many good conversations with all of you! Brian and Barb _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
