Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
For what it's worth, I recently installed a 256 MB Radeon 9600 (AGP) in my MDD, which has two hard drives (both on the ATA bus) and have had no problems whatsoever. System Profiler reports Core Image: Hardware Accelerated and Quartz Extreme: Supported. Michael McMurtrey Carrollton, TX On Dec 12, 2012, at 5:48 AM, g3-5-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Today's Topic Summary Group: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/topics MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [5 Updates] MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card faithie999 faithie...@hotmail.com Dec 11 03:55AM -0800 i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last troubleshooting step. if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can borrow the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video card from the separate power supply. assuming the borrowed PS doesn't have a switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and see which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on. ken t...@prismnet.com t...@prismnet.com Dec 11 08:41AM -0800 On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote: had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS are interchangeable. Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some times the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the output wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage was considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though both numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply describing different qualities of the same object. I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400. 90% efficiency is perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the output wattage of the MDD supplies. Jeff Walther frrob fr...@earthlink.net Dec 11 09:36AM -0800 Jeff: From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt versions) for sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are output wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts. Rob J. gifutiger gifuti...@gmail.com Dec 11 04:57PM -0800 Greetings, If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page. When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers (I think there was2) before everything worked Okay. Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the screen was scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart. But with the drivers installed sleep wake up was good. If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still have them. Cheers Harry frrob fr...@earthlink.net Dec 11 12:13PM -0800 Greetings all! On a related, but slightly different note: What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT) instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less power? I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3 11, but that's not a big deal. With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image and Quartz Extreme. Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that? Thanks, Rob J. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group g3-5-list. You can post via email. To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty message. For more options, visit this group. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last troubleshooting step. if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can borrow the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video card from the separate power supply. assuming the borrowed PS doesn't have a switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and see which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on. ken -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote: Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS are interchangeable. Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some times the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the output wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage was considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though both numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply describing different qualities of the same object. I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400.90% efficiency is perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the output wattage of the MDD supplies. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Jeff: From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt versions) for sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are output wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts. Rob J. On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:41:16 AM UTC-5, tr...@prismnet.com wrote: On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote: Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS are interchangeable. Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some times the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the output wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage was considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though both numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply describing different qualities of the same object. I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400.90% efficiency is perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the output wattage of the MDD supplies. Jeff Walther -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Greetings, If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page. When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers (I think there was2) before everything worked Okay. Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the screen was scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart. But with the drivers installed sleep wake up was good. If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still have them. Cheers Harry -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote: Hello! I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run snip=== Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Flags: I'll check the swap list for that driver. However, according to the ATI website, Leopard has the most up-to-date driver for the 9800 in it already. Thanks, Rob J. On Monday, December 10, 2012 7:35:30 AM UTC-5, flags wrote: On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote: Hello! I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run snip=== Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Bob: I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back. Thanks, Rob J. On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote: Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying. About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used). The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted down. Bob -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Valter: I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right. I had, by my own rough calculation, thought that the card might draw 45-50 watts. But I could see that 75 might well overtax the power supply. Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? If the PSU is really the culprit, I would replace my 360 watt PSU with the 400 watt version before I repaired the 360 watt one. Finally, I did reset the PMU, twice. I forgot to mention that. No effect on the problem. I'll let the group know what happens. Thanks, Rob J. On Sunday, December 9, 2012 10:17:34 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote: Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty much need USB 2.0. I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an handicapped Mac ;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power. Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else. From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of power. But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure. The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? Yes and no. A 23 monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs more. The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications). It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected to it. Maybe something got stuck in the power mangement unit. Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit) See Apple's page: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939 (knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well; worth a try) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
On 10/12/2012 02:41, frrob fr...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello again everyone! Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach a point of saying f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble. I am about at that point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting around with this thing. The 'not connected' diagram is only supposed to show up when there is no power to the card - so if the molex splitter is good and tests out with a hd or an optical then the problem may lie with the molex socket on the card or it's connections to the rest of the card - maybe a damaged trace or a resistor missing. Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: Valter: I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right. It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-) Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS are interchangeable. My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger monitor at full resolution I don't know about your 9000 card, but I think 64MB are more than enough to drive high-res monitor and/or dual monitors (as long as the card has two ports). I did run dual monitors (21 and 15) on a meager 32MB Geforce 2 MX. Unless for larger monitor you mean a 30 display or such (that might require a beefier card). -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
On 12/10/12 22:14 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote: Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: Valter: I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right. It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-) If you can find an old AT power supply, they have a switch to power on/off. I have in the past used one to power extra external hard drives and fans for cooling the drives . Of course this requires leaving case open, or cutting and splicing after running through a hole. This dual 867 MDD has 2 hds under PS (400 watt), 2 HDs setting on top of 2 optical drives but belong under and from time to time up to 2 sata drive loose outside case on a pci card, and a pci usb card. There is a 5 fan on top of processor heat sink and 2 1/2 fan hanging from airport cage (both 12 volt DC). About a foot away I have 2 5 ac fans blowing at MB. Also there is a fire dvdR burner and assorted firewire and/or usb hard drives attached. I been starting to think it's time to power from another source especially if I add more SATA and Firewire controllers. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Hello Rob: I forgot to mention, the tightening sequence is important also: Right front, Left rear, Left front, Right rear. The right rear is a sheet metal mount from the case and can have a lot of variance in height. Bob On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:32 PM, frrob wrote: Bob: I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back. Thanks, Rob J. On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote: Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying. About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used). The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted down. Bob -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto: As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power supply. No surprise it could be chocking... As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 connected to the optical drive power line). If it works... You know where the problem is. :-) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Hello again everyone! Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach a point of saying f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble. I am about at that point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting around with this thing. As you might gather from the above, I have not succeeded in solving the problem. I plugged the molex splitter into the optical drive power connector, and disconnected one of the 4 hard drives. This did not solve the problem. However, using the optical bay power lead made for a more efficient cable run to the 9800 card, so I will keep that if I get the card working properly. I then disconnected another hard drive and removed the unused PCI card. Still no joy. Thinking the problem might be driver/software related, I installed the August '95 ATI ROM update. No effect on the problem. Then I taped the infamous 3 11 pins. I double and triple checked with a magnifying glass to make sure those pins were completely covered, and no other pins were. This too did not solve the problem. So, I am down to the Leopard boot drive (an OWC 115 GB SSD), and my SCSI raid set (2 cheetah LVD drives). I assume that the SSD draws less power than a standard drive? I am down to 2 pci cards: a USB 2.0 card, and the ATTO UL3D that drives the RAID set. The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty much need USB 2.0. The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog if it can't get enough power to run when I'm only running 2 PCI cards and 3 hard drives (one of them an SSD). And another thing, another con to the whole project: When I do not have an ADC monitor plugged in to the MDD, the fans do not spin down to a slower speed after startup, and cycle according to use. They run full blast constantly, giving the well-known MDD wind tunnel effect. This happens even when I connect the stock 9000 card to a non-ADC monitor using the DVI port. This is very annoying to me, and I'm not sure if I could put up with that indefinitely. It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected to it. So, I am back to the stock 9000 card for now. I have to be away for a couple of days, so will have to come back to this when I return. Thanks again, Rob J. On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:13:13 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote: Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto: As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power supply. No surprise it could be chocking... As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 connected to the optical drive power line). If it works... You know where the problem is. :-) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Tom: Thanks for the reply. I recall that on some machines, a bad or marginal PRAM battery can cause all kinds of goofiness. But, I am not losing dates/times, etc., which is the classic symptom of a bad battery. However, I will try the new PRAM battery next. Thanks, Rob J. On Dec 8, 2012, at 12:19 AM, technophobic_...@comcast.net wrote: On 12/7/12, frrob wrote: I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8 If I shut down the machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at all The solution I have found...unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up normally. I think that same problem in my case is caused by a dead battery which I haven't taken the time to replace. -- T.T. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty much need USB 2.0. I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an handicapped Mac ;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power. Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else. From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of power. But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure. The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? Yes and no. A 23 monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs more. The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications). It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected to it. Maybe something got stuck in the power mangement unit. Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit) See Apple's page: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939 (knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well; worth a try) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Hello Rob: With no disrespect to anyone else's attempts to help, I have had exactly the same problem on my MDD. It occurred after the same basic scenario, adding a 9800 Pro (PC flashed with pins 3 and 11 taped up). After 2 weeks it wouldn't start up or even give me the white LED light when the button was pushed. The only way to make it start was to unplug for 5-10 seconds then replug. If left unplugged for 10 minutes, I had to leave it plugged in for 15 minutes (not 10) then it would restart. Auto power on/off would not work. I struggled with it for years. The best solution was to leave it in sleep mode when ever I would normally shut it down. Because of other problems indicative of the Power Manager, hard disk corruption if automatic sleep was on and other problems, I believe it was most likely a combination of the Power Manager partly failing and a bad capacitor(s) in the power supply. There is a company in New York that is on the web that will repair the PS for about $85. Just use Google and type in G4 MDD power supply repair. If you are interested in fixing it yourself, go to www.Badcaps.net. There is good advice and the experience of others who repaired MDD G4 power supplies. They are very helpful there. Good luck, however, I finally gave up when I couldn't get good fresh installs of OS 10.5. I bought a G5 and gave the G4 to Goodwill after stripping it. The hard disks from the G4 had bad partitions (they had been reformatted on the G4 several times) and had to be reformatted to work properly on the G5 (with an ATA card) Bob -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying. About the full fan speed. Mine did that when I first got it (used). The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it. I put new Arctic Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight. It quieted down. Bob -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
hi, fwiw, years before i owned a powermac, i used slackware exclusively on a tyan tiger dual palomino board with 4 gigs of ram and had a firegl card that needed a molex connection for extra power to the gpu. now all of the finery of my memory is gone from this experience, but the quirks from this setup left an imprint. pc's experience this phenomenon as well, and as i recall you should always plug the molex connector of any optical drives, soundcards, gpu's (anything using one)on different plugs than the hdd. something about how they dont play nice sticks out. i had this issue as well until i had figured it out. you'll need to segregate the hard drive to its own power source, and no there is not route around this. when the computer posts and boots is similar to a automobile, using more fuel(or in this case, electricity)upon start up than during normal operation. the observation of the mdd needing a bit to cool to start with gpu is somewhat troubling. it seems as though your P/S is on its way out as well. just sayin. On Dec 7, 2012, at 3:34 PM, frrob wrote: Hello! I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro - apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from one of the hard drive power connectors. In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x 1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem. The solution I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up normally. Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on. The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem. When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in there). But no, the button is clear. I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card. So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power management? I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart, that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD? Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800? Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card? Thanks! Rob J. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card Date:Saturday, 08. December 2012 From:Jesse St.John jesselorenstj...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com […] you'll need to segregate the hard drive to its own power source, and no there is not route around this. […] it seems as though your P/S is on its way out as well. […] I’ve immediately had the same thought. My guess is that the power from the PSU—at this very molex connector—does not provide enough power for the HDD and the graphics card on start-up. The HDD requires a lot more power on spin-up compared to its running state, and the graphics card may as well draw more power on start-up than when running. Try a different molex. I ususally use the one from the optical drive for the splitter. You may find an unused molex connector to use for the graphics card exclusively, or—if it is too short—use the splitter only to extend it. The second thought is that maybe the PSU itself isn’t capable of providing enought power for all of the components. And: warmed-up components may draw more power. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
The second thought is that maybe the PSU itself isn't capable of providing enought power for all of the components. And: warmed-up components may draw more power. FWIW I had the same problem when updating my Mystic to the flashed version of a 9800 pro card (taped pins). The general consensus found by browsing internet forums was that there just wasn't enough power in the OEM PSU (360 watt?) to handle everything (2 internal SATA, 2 ATA drives, DVD drive, and 9800 card). This thought was reinforced by the fact that only one of the SATA drives would boot up, but work fine with the other disconnected, or with the original card re-installed. As fate would have it my 10 year old OEM PSU failed shortly after installing the card,,, perhaps it was on it's way out anyway? Problem solved by replacing it with a 500 watt PC PSU, though I have had some intermittent sleep issues (crashes), presumably from the PC PSU not having a 28 volt standby voltage lead into the motherboard, which again presumably could be corrected by adding one independently or other hacks, which I haven't felt compelled to tackle. Replacing the PSU with a PC version is not for the faint of heart as it involves rewiring 22 output leads to the corresponding correct voltage inputs on the motherboard, and possible mounting issues, and may not be feasible with other G4 models. -- Frank Dutra PO Box 3402 Nantucket MA 02584 mailto: fdut...@gmail.com Voice: (508) 292-1528 FAX: (815) 377-2407 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Thanks everyone, for all the feedback and suggestions. I will try taking the power off the optical drive connectors next, and see what happens. I have the molex for the 9800 running off the hard drive connector for the drive cage under the optical bay, where I have two SCSI drives (RAID). As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. Regarding heat as the issue, I'm not so sure. According to iStat, the processor temps hover around 49 degrees C. I've been checking it from time to time, sometimes after doing more processor-intensive tasks, and I've never seen a temp over 50 C. It seems to me that that's an acceptable temp for the processor. Thanks! Rob J. On Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:18:20 PM UTC-5, Wayne Stewart wrote: If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
From my knowledge on the PC cards you need to tape the #3 and #11 pin and the rom needs to flashed for it to work... I plug one in on an old G4 and it didn't boot up at all... Now I never heard or knew of a MAC 9800??? If that is what it is does this card have a fan on it? Maybe if it does it might not be spinning or the heat sink fins are packed with dust and dirt? This was the problem with my wife's PC and I ended up putting that 9800 card in her computer with a new fan and that problem simular to what you are having went away!!! I don't know if anyone else may have posted about this because I only read a few of the posts here??? -Original Message- From: frrob <fr...@earthlink.net> Sent: Dec 7, 2012 4:34 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card Hello!I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro - apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from one of the hard drive power connectors.In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x 1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem. The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up normally. Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on. The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem. When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in there). But no, the button is clear. I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card.So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power management? I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart, that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD? Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800? Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card? Thanks!Rob J.-- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtmlTo post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.comFor more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... “Choose love and peace above all other options. Commit to the goal of unconditional love and compassion for all life, in all its expressions, and surrender all judgment to God. --- Dr. David R. Hawkins -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card Date:Saturday, 08. December 2012 From:Wayne Stewart waynejstew...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card. You could also take the opportunity to replace your 4 IDE hard drives with 1 SATA drive or even 1 SSD SATA drive. Both solutions will draw less power. All you need is an IDE to SATA adapter, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SATA-Drive-Interface-Adapter/dp/B002Y2NI4M or this one: http://www.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/25in-and-35in-40-Pin-Male-IDE-to-SATA- Adapter-Converter~IDE2SAT You’ll propably find similar products on eBay or even at a local store nearby. One HDD will definitely draw less power than 4 HDDs. And with modern SATA-II (3 GB/s) drives you can definitely use a green series that is designed be energy efficient, because the internal UltraATA/133 IDE bus is even slower than a slow SATA drive, so there won’t be a benefit from choosing a fast SATA drive anyway. My recommendation: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Intellipower-Desktop- WD15EADS/dp/B0021L9HE6 Two things should be considered though: 1) PowerPCs use the APM partitioning scheme. Therefore the limit is 2 TB. 2) Modern SATA HDDs use 4096k sectors (WD: “Advanced Format”). APM uses 512k. Since Mac OS prior to 10.6.x isn’t aware of 4096k sectors, disks that use it will ultimately be formated wrongly and thus may suffer from a significant performace impact. (AFAIK the metioned WD Caviar Green WD15EADS is still 512k.) Weather 4096k sectors will actually reduce performance further than the already existing limit due to the speed of the IDE bus is far beyond my experience and knowledge. BUT, before you try that, see if your MDD Power Mac runs stable with the Radoeon 9800 if you only use one HDD. If it does, this may be a convenient way to go. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card Date:Saturday, 08. December 2012 From:Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Modern SATA HDDs use 4096k sectors (WD: “Advanced Format”). APM uses 512k. It is of course 4096 bytes i.e. 4k sectors and 512 bytes sectors, NOT 4096k/512k… such a nonsense… Sorry, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card Date:Saturday, 08. December 2012 From:frrob fr...@earthlink.net To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Regarding heat as the issue, I'm not so sure. According to iStat, the processor temps hover around 49 degrees C. I've been checking it from time to time, sometimes after doing more processor-intensive tasks, and I've never seen a temp over 50 C. It seems to me that that's an acceptable temp for the processor. The processor temperature is okay. I have a 1.42 GHz MDD and its CPUs are around 65°C all the time and it is running stable. However, the temperature may influence how much power a specific device draws from the PSU, and also how much power the PSU can provide. It may well be that a component requires less power when at room temperature. Once warmed up (at a higher than room temperature, which will very highly from component to component) it may require more… Talking about components such as PCI cards, and HDDs. You can also think at a very low level, like capacitors, inductors, ICs and such… BTW, waking from sleep (suspend to RAM) initiates a different sequence of powering up, which is propably the reason why you don’t experience this problem then. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
I have one of these in my Gig Ethernet. Just be warned, it is sensitive to higher temps. Make sure you are cleaning out dust on a regular basis. Once you get the power issue sorted, any future video issues, your first step should be to check airflow, and temps. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Hello! I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro - apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from one of the hard drive power connectors. In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x 1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem. The solution I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up normally. Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on. The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem. When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in there). But no, the button is clear. I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card. So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power management? I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart, that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD? Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800? Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card? Thanks! Rob J. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Isn't this the tape pins 3 11 issue?: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Kris: My understanding is that the tape on pins 3 11 issue applies to PC versions of the 9800 card flashed over to Mac, not to *original* Mac edition cards. This is an original Mac edition card. Cards that have the pin issue will cause the machine to not power up *at all * if the pins are not covered. My machine will power up with the card installed. The problem is on restarts, or a power up after a shutdown (unless you unplug and replug the machine). Furthermore, the flashing red molex graphic indicates that the card is somehow not getting power, or it thinks it isn't. I may, if I can't get anywhere in another way, try the pin thing. But I don't think that's the problem. Thanks, Rob J. On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:50:10 PM UTC-5, Kris Tilford wrote: Isn't this the tape pins 3 11 issue?: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
On Dec 7, 2012, at 10:37 PM, frrob wrote: My understanding is that the tape on pins 3 11 issue applies to PC versions of the 9800 card flashed over to Mac, not to original Mac edition cards. This is an original Mac edition card. I don't think the pin 3 11 issues was PC vs. Mac cards, I thought it was using AGPx8 cards in AGPx4 Macs where the Macs were made OEM for ADC Mac cards and pins 3 11 were appropriated by Apple for ADC power that somehow screwed up AGPx8 cards in these ADC Macs? I could be wrong? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
Il giorno 07/12/12 22:34, frrob ha scritto: The solution I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up normally. Well, it seems having to do with hot (re)start. Letting it cool down (even just a bit), seems helping;but I cannot think what heat has to do with it. Unplugging might reset something or let a memory chip lose its content; but, again, doesn't make much sense. Only thing I can think of, when the Mac is starting, the 9800 could compete with the hard drive (on the same power line) for power, since hard drives need the most power when spinning up; once it has started, the shared power is enough for both to work. What else is connected on the same power line where you put the splitter? Did you try to put the splitter on the optical drive's power line? (it should not require power at boot). Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD? I think that 9800 Pro was made for G4 and G5 Macs, so it *should* work. I wonder what could be wrong in your MDD's power department. Have you got many peripherals inside it (HDs, cards...) that are sucking power? Maybe the power supply is overloaded. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
