Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Interesting. The Amnion do sound pretty unique. That is what I like to see in a sci-fi series because the more less human an alien species is the more alien it will be.That in turn will make the game more interesting. For instance, right now I am reading a Star Trek book called Doctor's Orders which I've never read before. The over all story itself is so-so, but I am interested in the aliens described in the book. As Dianne Dwane describes them they appear to be round balls of protoplasm, with black eye stalks, have no internal organs, can assume any shape they want, and speak with a chittering sound. they have no government, no religion to speak of, and live from moment to moment without anysense of organisation or planning. They are truly strange by human standards. Bottom line, the more diversity we could put in a game besides the typical humanoids the better. It will make exploring the game universe more interesting I think. Cheers! On 8/14/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To bring things back on track however, this does raise some interesting possibilities for alien races and cultures, sinse the more we can believe that any views we hold are mutable, the more possible it is to considder the views of different times, places, or alien races. For instance, in Steven donaldson's gap cycle he imagines humanity coming into conflict with a race called the amneon. The amneon are not actually evil as we would understand evil, sinse they do not feel animosity or hatred to humanity or wish to destroy humanity at all, indeed they have a strong sense of honour and reputation. Yet, they are driven by an absolute drive to genetically alter any species they come across, to make that species resemble themselves genetically. This is not like the borg say, sinse anyone infected by the amneon remains an individual, but the amneon themselves don't realize that the process of having someone's body mutate will drive them literally insane. Yet, the Amneon are desperate to maintain trading links with humans, sinse they are able to recognize aimes that will fulfill their ultimate goal and contribute to their survival, so they often trade with outlaw captains, particularly for specimins of technology sinse their own biologically based technology is less than efficient at mass production of anything (they thus have far fewer space vessels than humanity), and of course for human subjects to convert into amneon. It's indeed suggested that the amneon's desire to convert others is simply a base survival instinct and a wish to reproduce, but still one tempered by reason. They're one of the most unique alien races I've seen in an sf setting, apart from the fact that Donaldson's descriptions of them, their easthetics and technology is extremely disturbing, and very different from what you'd expect. I Also admire the completeness of the amneon because the gap cycle involves just! the conflict betwene the amneon, privateer captains, and the united mining company which through economic mite now controls all space going vessels. it is exactly this sort of explanation of different modes of thinking, cultures and points of view that I really enjoy in sf, or indeed in fantasy, and primarily the only difference I see betwene them is that sf is tempered by what could exist, albeit at the stretching of some scientific principles, while fantasy begins with the idea of the exploration of what could never exist, though consistancy, good characterization, and decent plotting apply just as well to both forms of literature and I hate formula fantasy as much if not more as I hate formula sf. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. the gap cycle generally is an incredibly good and deeply plotted series, though they are not easy to read by any stretch of the imagination, either in writing style or settin, and the amneon were just another expression of tthat. With alien races I actually like the idea that something such as babylon 5 had, of having a few alien races whome you understand in more! detail, even if the b5 races were a little humanized in culture, outlook and detail they were at least just as unique as any human nation, just look at the way je'kar progresses throughout the series, from an incredibly pushy nationalistic leader of a newly liberated people who is very touchy about all his traditions and hates! his enemies, to someone who actually is able to move on, forgive and see the value in no longer seaking revenge, indeed the entire plotline surrounding londo and Je'kar is one of the most fascinating in the series I found. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. To be honest this is the over all reason why I do not wish to work in academia perminantly. More and more, I'm noticing that the way people choose which side of any given ethical, metaphysical, religious, or scientific question to come down upon is based not upon logic, but upon which position personally appeals to them, and then defend this opinion with increasingly more complex arguements. One side says black, another says white, but the arguement betwene them will be simply one side defending and clarrifying their position against the other, with neither side of the debate actually progressing at all. I've seen this happen myself increasingly in ebates about a number of topics, including scientific ones. This is why my own personal favourite model of scientific progress is Paul fyrabent's notion of research projects, that rather than science having grad theories that explain everything, science is the much smaller investigation of a given research topic or small scale question. To bring things back on track however, this does raise some interesting possibilities for alien races and cultures, sinse the more we can believe that any views we hold are mutable, the more possible it is to considder the views of different times, places, or alien races. For instance, in Steven donaldson's gap cycle he imagines humanity coming into conflict with a race called the amneon. The amneon are not actually evil as we would understand evil, sinse they do not feel animosity or hatred to humanity or wish to destroy humanity at all, indeed they have a strong sense of honour and reputation. Yet, they are driven by an absolute drive to genetically alter any species they come across, to make that species resemble themselves genetically. This is not like the borg say, sinse anyone infected by the amneon remains an individual, but the amneon themselves don't realize that the process of having someone's body mutate will drive them literally insane. Yet, the Amneon are desperate to maintain trading links with humans, sinse they are able to recognize aimes that will fulfill their ultimate goal and contribute to their survival, so they often trade with outlaw captains, particularly for specimins of technology sinse their own biologically based technology is less than efficient at mass production of anything (they thus have far fewer space vessels than humanity), and of course for human subjects to convert into amneon. It's indeed suggested that the amneon's desire to convert others is simply a base survival instinct and a wish to reproduce, but still one tempered by reason. They're one of the most unique alien races I've seen in an sf setting, apart from the fact that Donaldson's descriptions of them, their easthetics and technology is extremely disturbing, and very different from what you'd expect. I Also admire the completeness of the amneon because the gap cycle involves just! the conflict betwene the amneon, privateer captains, and the united mining company which through economic mite now controls all space going vessels. it is exactly this sort of explanation of different modes of thinking, cultures and points of view that I really enjoy in sf, or indeed in fantasy, and primarily the only difference I see betwene them is that sf is tempered by what could exist, albeit at the stretching of some scientific principles, while fantasy begins with the idea of the exploration of what could never exist, though consistancy, good characterization, and decent plotting apply just as well to both forms of literature and I hate formula fantasy as much if not more as I hate formula sf. Beware the Grue! ark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I agree tom which is why I'm not replying to deni's post, though I do have an interest in this issue. As to firestorming, well nearly 10 years of studdying professional philosophy teaches the art of amicable disagreement, indeed I even disagree with my tutor on several points, much though I admire him. I will however leve with this amusing story. Apparently, according to the Mormon church I am officially possessed by the devil! :d. A friend of mine visited salt lake city, and, simply as a tourist, visited the main morman church there and picked up a book of morman. unfortunately, he put down his name and details, and the mormans literally chased him back to Britain and attempted to convert him to the local chapter. As you can imagine, I didn't take well to this, and gave them a fairly detailed arguement and crytical examination, as in fact I'd do with most view points. They then apparently told my friend that I was a bad influence and was possessed by a demon, and wrote the same in their books, that I was to be avoided hence forth as an agent of evil. I feel quite honoured! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Well that's good. but I think you'd also wana do it in a way that make sence though. just my thought. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:57 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Rishi, At this point we are simply pontificating on the realistic aspects verses the fictional aspects of popular science fiction. I think that any good science fiction story should strike a decent balance between the two but that is just my opinion of course. Cheers! On 8/13/12, rishi mack cg...@live.com wrote: are you basing it on reall live fax? or fiction. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. Well as I have said before, philosophically I think there are quite severe problems with arguements that our current scientific thinking is! the be all and end all, or indeed is anything more than a highly structured set of human opinions, which is why the hard sf writers like Clarke and Asimov are people I have trouble with because of their insistance that human science can solve any problem. Heman however is indeed a good example of where characters and strangeness of setting took pressidence over realism, and worked dam well for it, indeed I'm amazed when I watch one of those original heman cartoons now, just how well the plot/action ratio was balanced (several recent hollywood films could I think learn from that). Admittedly, the plots aren't complex or engaging, and tend to be simple morality tales of one sort of another, but even in a 20 minute story have surprising amounts of developement and detail about whatever bit of eternia they are set in. I disagree on consistancy of setting though as far as heman went, sinse I must admit I never was!exactly sure about some of it's major principles, for instance who skeletor was, what exactly the secrets of castle greyskull were that skeletor was after etc. These were actually questions answered really well in the 2002 revival series, skeletor for instance had been a rival lord who fought against adamm's father when he was taking the thrown, and during the battle had chucked a flask of acid at him which the king had deflected, thus burning skeletors face down to the skull and causing him to change his name from keldor to skeletor. It's actually a dam shame that series didn't do better, sinse it was heman, but with ongoing plot! Getting back on track though, as I said, consistancy is for me more of a key in plot than actual realism. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. To me, the simple idea of a ship flying through space on an exploration mission is not directly startrek related, provided the ship, universe, characters and aliens are different ones. For example, the series lost in space involved a family of humans on a spaceship flying through unknown sectors of space trying to get home, exploring as they went. Yet, this is an entirely different setting, universe, set of characters and set of aliens to startrek, sinse the simple exploration idea, like a ship with laser weapons and faster than light travel, is more a general sf concept that could be taken in a different direction. Susan Cooper's dark is rising series (actually written before harry potter), could be said to have some paralells, sinse it's about a young boy who meets an eldily wizard, learns magic, and is involved in a prophecied battle against evil magicians called the dark. Yet, the series has an entirely different tone and setting to harry potter. There is for instance no school of magic, and though will can! use magic, there is a strict code and set of lores under which he can use it, indeed throughout the book will the old one, aka servent of the light and magician is distinguished quite successively from will the boy. The prophecy is much more vague and never explored, jsut providing the inevitability for the magic battle, and ultimately it's the characters that matter most in the series, indeed most of the attacks by the dark revolve around characters rather than overt magic, though ther is cetanly no shortage of magic throughout the books. Even the real world setting differs hugely from harry potter, sinse the books are entirely themed around wild places in Britain with keltic significance, such as the mountain in wales, kade idris, or the seat of arthur, in fact Will himself is the son of a large farming family, and not an only child or a child living with a single parent in a modern city. This is why so many fans of susan cooper's books were extremely angry when hollywood turned it into a blatant harry potter knockoff film, and you had will chucking fireballs and learning magic, not to mention changing will's nationality to american for some reason even though the film was still set in Britain. thus, I do think there is a difference betwene actual copying of ideas and simply using general concepts. For instance, suppose you had a ship exploring new life etc, but the federation they were from wasn't the goody goody one of startrek, but quite a different body. perhaps unlike the ship's of startrek, the ship is much smaller, perhaps with only a few crew members, none of whome are alien in origin, and maybe the crew's technology is actually less! sophisticated than aliens they meet. Then of course, there is no reason for the aliens to look human, or behave like klingons, romulans, vulcans etc, they could be entirely and completely different. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
i loved the whole dark is rising series. it was very clever if you ask me. i couldn't get into the film of it at all which sort of proves your point dark i think. the best set of fantasy books of all time is the middle earth series though. lord of the rings, the hobbit etc. if you ask me those books are unbeatable. the depth of the world, the characters, so so cleverly and painstakingly well written. it's true to say i have to be in the mood for those books but equally there's no other set of books like it in my opinion. i've often wondered if hp was taking some ideas from lotr, mainly the horcrux idea and the ring. the main difference being that the horcrux doesn't give power to the one that holds it but it still has an affect over the person who is in contact with it for the longest and it also tries to stop you from destroying it. as much as i enjoyed hp, it will never match up to lotr for depth of creation. Sent from my iPad On 13 Aug 2012, at 08:43, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To me, the simple idea of a ship flying through space on an exploration mission is not directly startrek related, provided the ship, universe, characters and aliens are different ones. For example, the series lost in space involved a family of humans on a spaceship flying through unknown sectors of space trying to get home, exploring as they went. Yet, this is an entirely different setting, universe, set of characters and set of aliens to startrek, sinse the simple exploration idea, like a ship with laser weapons and faster than light travel, is more a general sf concept that could be taken in a different direction. Susan Cooper's dark is rising series (actually written before harry potter), could be said to have some paralells, sinse it's about a young boy who meets an eldily wizard, learns magic, and is involved in a prophecied battle against evil magicians called the dark. Yet, the series has an entirely different tone and setting to harry potter. There is for instance no school of magic, and though will can! use magic, there is a strict code and set of lores under which he can use it, indeed throughout the book will the old one, aka servent of the light and magician is distinguished quite successively from will the boy. The prophecy is much more vague and never explored, jsut providing the inevitability for the magic battle, and ultimately it's the characters that matter most in the series, indeed most of the attacks by the dark revolve around characters rather than overt magic, though ther is cetanly no shortage of magic throughout the books. Even the real world setting differs hugely from harry potter, sinse the books are entirely themed around wild places in Britain with keltic significance, such as the mountain in wales, kade idris, or the seat of arthur, in fact Will himself is the son of a large farming family, and not an only child or a child living with a single parent in a modern city. This is why so many fans of susan cooper's books were extremely angry when hollywood turned it into a blatant harry potter knockoff film, and you had will chucking fireballs and learning magic, not to mention changing will's nationality to american for some reason even though the film was still set in Britain. thus, I do think there is a difference betwene actual copying of ideas and simply using general concepts. For instance, suppose you had a ship exploring new life etc, but the federation they were from wasn't the goody goody one of startrek, but quite a different body. perhaps unlike the ship's of startrek, the ship is much smaller, perhaps with only a few crew members, none of whome are alien in origin, and maybe the crew's technology is actually less! sophisticated than aliens they meet. Then of course, there is no reason for the aliens to look human, or behave like klingons, romulans, vulcans etc, they could be entirely and completely different. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I agree on tolkien being the ultimate in fantasy literature and world creation, though again with the horcrux and the ring I don't think there is really a paralell, sinse both are part of the more general concept of dangerous magical objects with some degree of sentiencewhich this goes right back to griek or naus mythology. Indeed, Nordic myths had the ring of the neibelung (sorry if I'm mangling spelling), which was not Richard vargna's invention, and griek myths had the ring of gorgias, a ring that would make it's wearer invisible and thus outside of all moral responsability, so would be bound to corrupt them. So Again, both tolkien's ring and the idea of a horcrux I see more asvariations on a central concept, than direct copies of anything. Likewise, both voldemort and sauron use the title the dark lord (as in fact does morgoth in the silmarillion), but neither can be said to be a copy sinse that title is more a general description of a powerfull evil ruler, and the two characters are extremely different. if however someone wrote a book with a dark lord who lived in a black tower, was never seen and most of who's power was contained in a magical object that he was searching for, or a dark lord who was an undead sorcerer who's soul had been split into peaces, well then you could probably say originality was lacking. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, The term Dark Lord is pretty generic all things considered. Darth Vader, for example, is nothing like Voldemort and Sauron yet like many Sith Lords is given the title Dark Lord. So that in of itself is too generic to be considered a parallel between stories. Ditto for magic items. Fantasy stories usually have some kind of magic item that is considered to be evil or will make the user evil over time. It really comes back to that old belief that absolute power corrupts a person absolutely. Its one of those moral lessons that has been passed down from generation to generation through story form. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I agree on tolkien being the ultimate in fantasy literature and world creation, though again with the horcrux and the ring I don't think there is really a paralell, sinse both are part of the more general concept of dangerous magical objects with some degree of sentiencewhich this goes right back to griek or naus mythology. Indeed, Nordic myths had the ring of the neibelung (sorry if I'm mangling spelling), which was not Richard vargna's invention, and griek myths had the ring of gorgias, a ring that would make it's wearer invisible and thus outside of all moral responsability, so would be bound to corrupt them. So Again, both tolkien's ring and the idea of a horcrux I see more asvariations on a central concept, than direct copies of anything. Likewise, both voldemort and sauron use the title the dark lord (as in fact does morgoth in the silmarillion), but neither can be said to be a copy sinse that title is more a general description of a powerfull evil ruler, and the two characters are extremely different. if however someone wrote a book with a dark lord who lived in a black tower, was never seen and most of who's power was contained in a magical object that he was searching for, or a dark lord who was an undead sorcerer who's soul had been split into peaces, well then you could probably say originality was lacking. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Ah, I forgot about lord vader, that is a good point :D. Again though, it proves the point that just because an idea is general, you can use it in a new and distinctive way without plagerism. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, The term Dark Lord is pretty generic all things considered. Darth Vader, for example, is nothing like Voldemort and Sauron yet like many Sith Lords is given the title Dark Lord. So that in of itself is too generic to be considered a parallel between stories. Ditto for magic items. Fantasy stories usually have some kind of magic item that is considered to be evil or will make the user evil over time. It really comes back to that old belief that absolute power corrupts a person absolutely. Its one of those moral lessons that has been passed down from generation to generation through story form. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I agree on tolkien being the ultimate in fantasy literature and world creation, though again with the horcrux and the ring I don't think there is really a paralell, sinse both are part of the more general concept of dangerous magical objects with some degree of sentiencewhich this goes right back to griek or naus mythology. Indeed, Nordic myths had the ring of the neibelung (sorry if I'm mangling spelling), which was not Richard vargna's invention, and griek myths had the ring of gorgias, a ring that would make it's wearer invisible and thus outside of all moral responsability, so would be bound to corrupt them. So Again, both tolkien's ring and the idea of a horcrux I see more asvariations on a central concept, than direct copies of anything. Likewise, both voldemort and sauron use the title the dark lord (as in fact does morgoth in the silmarillion), but neither can be said to be a copy sinse that title is more a general description of a powerfull evil ruler, and the two characters are extremely different. if however someone wrote a book with a dark lord who lived in a black tower, was never seen and most of who's power was contained in a magical object that he was searching for, or a dark lord who was an undead sorcerer who's soul had been split into peaces, well then you could probably say originality was lacking. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Sure, that makes a lot of sense. There is no saying our group of space explorers have to come from a galactic federation at all, nor that the motivation of our space explorers is necessarily nobel. All we have to do is look into our own history to see exploration has always been about the acquisition of wealth rather than the desire to explore the unknown. When Columbus set sail in 1492 he and his fleet were looking for a shortcut from Spain to India by sailing west instead of east. The entire motivation of that exploration wasn't to explore the frontiers of the new world but were solely based on saving money on trade between Spain and India, China, and other countries in Asia. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered sending the expedition west to North and South America. Those who followed Columbus had even less nobel intentions. As we know the Spanish conquistadors raided South America and slaughtered millions of natives while looting them of their gold, their lands, and just about anything else they could get their bloody hands on. The French settled in Canada mainly to capture furs and ship them back to France for clothing while the English settled in places like Virginia to grow tobacco and cotton and have it shipped back to England. No matter how you look at it what we think of as North and South America today were simply there to be plundered by whatever country happened to mount an expedition into the new world. There were no idealistic or nobel ideas of exploring these undiscovered continents for the sake of exploring them. They were simply a way for this or that kingdom to make more wealth. Nothing more and nothing less. I think when we look at the problems confronting today's societies the motivation for people to colonize Mars or any other planet will be based on looking for more natural resources of some kind or another. We now have something like 6.5 billion people living on the earth and land is becoming scarce in some countries. Here in the U.S.A. While the great planes is still largely unsettled traditional farmland like in Ohio is rapidly shrinking as farms are sold off to expand the cities, towns, and build new residential areas. Sooner or later humanity is going to run out of space and natural resources. We will either have to kill off each other fighting for what resources remain, or will have to mount some kind of space exploration to find another planet to use. It may begin as a scientific expedition mounted by NASA or some other scientific agency, but make no mistake the pioneers will probably be no different from those who settled Canada, the United States, and South America. As far as Lost in Space it actually didn't start out as a story of exploration. It was suppose to be a journey from Earth to Alpha Sentori. However, thanks to sabotage from Dr. Smith the Jupiter II was flown off course and the Robinson family were lost in space. Unfortunately, more than half the series was spent grounded on one planet or another rather than out exploring space or trying to find a way home. If we have to use a sci-fi series as a model I think Space 1999 is the best option. According to the pilot a nuclear war causes the moon to be knocked out in space and of course it ends up having a Star Trek feel with the crew of Moon Base Alpha exploring space as though they were on a deep space exploration mission on a ship rather than the moon set adrift. In one way it was like Star Trek with the crew exploring space week after week. In another it was totally different because it was set in more contemporary times, their exploration began by accident, and they had no way home. Their only option was to find a world to settle on that was close enough to Earth to be their new home. Something else that made the story work from a sci-fi point of view is the aliens they encountered had more advanced technology. While the crew of Moon Base Alpha cared guns, flew around in rocket ships,and were using 1999 technology the aliens had UFOs, laser weapons, and were hundreds of years ahead of us in technology. it really gave it a more unique feel than some high tech group of humans exploring space and discovering Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, etc at the same level of evolution and technology we were. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To me, the simple idea of a ship flying through space on an exploration mission is not directly startrek related, provided the ship, universe, characters and aliens are different ones. For example, the series lost in space involved a family of humans on a spaceship flying through unknown sectors of space trying to get home, exploring as they went. Yet, this is an entirely different setting, universe, set of characters and set of aliens to startrek, sinse the simple exploration idea, like a ship with laser weapons and faster than light travel, is more a general sf concept that could be taken in a different direction. Susan
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Oh, definitely. Just because there is a generic idea it doesn't mean a person can't find a new and creative way to repackage the content for a new generation of readers. For instance, I've recently been reading Bernard Cornwell's Warlord series. I'm simply amazed how he could take a story like King Arthur, which has been written to death by countless authors, and repackage it in a new and compelling form. What makes it so convincing is he downplays the fantasy aspects of the story and gives it a historical context which is far more real and believable than the traditional story of King Arthur. The characters in Warlord are also more realistic characters with their own agendas, personal aspirations, and all too human faults. Instead of the heroic and honorable Lancelot Cornwell's Lancelot is something of a snake in the grass. Instead of Merlin being an all powerful magician he is really a Druid priest. One by one Bernard Cornwell humanizes the classic characters and gives them actions and motivations that are all too realistic. Basically, I think a person can take a generic storyline and use it in a entirely new and distinctive way without plagiarism. It just takes creativity and some forethought. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Ah, I forgot about lord vader, that is a good point :D. Again though, it proves the point that just because an idea is general, you can use it in a new and distinctive way without plagerism. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. Agreed on both counts, indeed I am a big fan of bernard cornwell's arthur series myself. Originality is something of a fine line, what is a general concept that is reuseable, and what is a copy of an idea, but obviously if you are a good! author, you'll try to avoid the one and strive for the other, which again brings us back to the hole subject of a workable game plot and world which, though it mmight have space exploration, ftl travel and aliens, would not involve a galactic federation, an evil galactic empire, an ancient order of semi religious semi magical warriors, a race who prized logic above all else, a randomly dressed alien wandering around time and space in an old phone box, a single space station where humanity was one of five central powers etc. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Exactly my point. That's why I used the Warlord series as an example of what can be done using an old idea, but can be made so totally different as to be an original story in its own right. It just takes a good imagination and some creativity on part of the author in question. Recently I have become a huge fan of the Vatta's War series by Elizabeth Moon. I've listened to the Graphic Audio reproduction of the books, and now I'm reading the version from the NLS library. What strikes me about the series Elizabeth Moon does a great job of starting out with your typical peaceful galaxy with interstellar trade between worlds, and the Vatta family end up getting caught up in a pirates aspirations for galactic conquest that leads to all out galactic war. The only mistake the pirates made is they murdered the Vatta family, and the surviving member, Ki Vatta, is a military genius. What makes Vatta's War compelling is Moon doesn't require a Federation, Empire, or any kind of Star Trek, Star Wars, or Babylon 5 type setting to tell a good science fiction story. She works from a basic concept of a rich interstellar trading company who gets caught up in a conflict with space pirates, and that smaller conflict then leads to an interstellar space war. In other words she started out with a basic storyline about intergalactic trade and slowly lead up to bigger and better things. On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. Agreed on both counts, indeed I am a big fan of bernard cornwell's arthur series myself. Originality is something of a fine line, what is a general concept that is reuseable, and what is a copy of an idea, but obviously if you are a good! author, you'll try to avoid the one and strive for the other, which again brings us back to the hole subject of a workable game plot and world which, though it might have space exploration, ftl travel and aliens, would not involve a galactic federation, an evil galactic empire, an ancient order of semi religious semi magical warriors, a race who prized logic above all else, a randomly dressed alien wandering around time and space in an old phone box, a single space station where humanity was one of five central powers etc. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. Have you ever tried the commonwealth series by peter f hamelton? That has some really interesting concepts. The weirdest is going from planet to planet via wormhole, but not using starships, but trains of all things! Everything is done on trains! You really should give that a look. it's very good plot development that's for sure. Shame there's not a game out there like that as it would be rather interesting to say the least. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 13 August 2012 15:36 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, Exactly my point. That's why I used the Warlord series as an example of what can be done using an old idea, but can be made so totally different as to be an original story in its own right. It just takes a good imagination and some creativity on part of the author in question. Recently I have become a huge fan of the Vatta's War series by Elizabeth Moon. I've listened to the Graphic Audio reproduction of the books, and now I'm reading the version from the NLS library. What strikes me about the series Elizabeth Moon does a great job of starting out with your typical peaceful galaxy with interstellar trade between worlds, and the Vatta family end up getting caught up in a pirates aspirations for galactic conquest that leads to all out galactic war. The only mistake the pirates made is they murdered the Vatta family, and the surviving member, Ki Vatta, is a military genius. What makes Vatta's War compelling is Moon doesn't require a Federation, Empire, or any kind of Star Trek, Star Wars, or Babylon 5 type setting to tell a good science fiction story. She works from a basic concept of a rich interstellar trading company who gets caught up in a conflict with space pirates, and that smaller conflict then leads to an interstellar space war. In other words she started out with a basic storyline about intergalactic trade and slowly lead up to bigger and better things. On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. Agreed on both counts, indeed I am a big fan of bernard cornwell's arthur series myself. Originality is something of a fine line, what is a general concept that is reuseable, and what is a copy of an idea, but obviously if you are a good! author, you'll try to avoid the one and strive for the other, which again brings us back to the hole subject of a workable game plot and world which, though it might have space exploration, ftl travel and aliens, would not involve a galactic federation, an evil galactic empire, an ancient order of semi religious semi magical warriors, a race who prized logic above all else, a randomly dressed alien wandering around time and space in an old phone box, a single space station where humanity was one of five central powers etc. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Well, I have my own mixed feelings about science. I personally love science, have always been interested in it since I can remember,and I do think it is the best way mankind has found for gathering knowledge about our environment we live in. However, that said, I'll be the first to admit science is far from perfect. There are a number of subjects that science is incapable of explaining. For example, the subject of life after death. Human beings have believed in some sort of afterlife for as long as there has been recorded history. Yet, the scientific answer is that the concept of an afterlife is wishful thinking. Problem is that science has no evidence to base that conclusion on any more than a religious person has evidence there is an afterlife. Its one of those kinds of questions that can't be proven or disproved through science alone. The real reason science claims there is no afterlife is because of the world view science has adopted regarding the origins of life. Most biologists will tell you that we pretty much started out as single celled organisms, and after billions of years evolved into human beings. Fine, but how did life begin in the first place? No one really knows that answer for sure. Its still one of sciences unsolved mysteries, and I'm not at all sure they will find the answers to that question. However, because science has concluded we all evolved through some natural means therefore there can be no afterlife. There isn't enough evidence to prove either theory as yet. Despite sciences shortcomings there is quite a lot science can and does explain. Just like anything else there is good solid science and bad science out there. A person simply has to be intelligent enough to see the difference between the two. So what does all this have to do with gaming? I'm all for using imagination, creativity, but there are certain aspects in science fiction I find unbelievable simply because it defies certain scientific laws I happen to know is true. Of course, science and a good story aren't totally compatible, and here is a case in point. You are sitting at the helm of a starship. The captain orders that you engage the FTL drive. The second your hand accesses the controls the ship enters light speed and you are turned into mush. What happened? Its simple. The faster you travel the greater the mass of the spaceship and the people living on board it. The inertia and g-forces would crush anything living into mush long before the spaceship reached light speed. However, while this is proven fact scientifically its not very practical in terms of a good SF story. The only way to get around this problem is to come up with some sort of clever device that is scientifically plausible. On Star Trek, for example, they created something called an inertial dampener that somehow keeps the inertia and gravity consistent during space flight. We don't know how this would work in reality, but it does explain why the crew isn't turned into mush when flying from planet to planet. In short, I guess what I meant to saying my prior e-mail is that anything I do in a RPG game should be scientifically plausible. It may not necessarily agree with science as we understand it today, but those things are explained in a way that could be plausible enough to be believable. With a story like He Man that's actually a bit of a different situation than your normal piece of SF because it all takes place on an alien planet that is quite different from our own. Who says magic doesn't occur somewhere else in the galaxy? In any case the uniqueness of the story, characters, etc really took presidents over realism. I think that is because it was primarily meant to be taken as fantasy, completely imagination, rather than attempting to be scientifically plausible the way something like Star Trek was. The SF elements in He Man were simply added into the fantasy setting rather than simply being classic science fiction in of themselves. As to the questions you had about He-Man many of the answers were actually answered in She-Ra, a spin-off series, that picked up where He-Man left off. For example, in the pilot episode, Secret of the Sword, He-Man is summoned to Castle Grayskull after the Sorceress has a bad dream and wakes up to find a power sword floating above her head. Its identical to He-Man's power sword accept it has a jewel set below the blade. Once He-Man arrives at Grayskull she sends him through the mysterious portal that opens to find the one the sword is intended for. As it turns out it happens to be his long lost sister, Princess Adora, who was kidnapped by Hordak 20 years earlier. He-Man brings Adora back to Grayskull where the Sorceress explains to them both the events of the great war between King Randor and the Horde, and during that telling she reveals who Skeletor was and how he became disfigured. So the historical back story of Skeletor in the2002 series is actually a reinvention of Skeletor rather than
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Daren, Yes, I've read it. At least the first two books in the series at any rate. The trains traveling through wormholes was a pretty unique idea. The Primes were pretty interesting as well. I thought it was interesting that they had been trapped in their own space to keep them from taking over the universe, and the Common Wealth accidentally let them loose to go on a rampage. What luck? Lol! On 8/13/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom. Have you ever tried the commonwealth series by peter f hamelton? That has some really interesting concepts. The weirdest is going from planet to planet via wormhole, but not using starships, but trains of all things! Everything is done on trains! You really should give that a look. it's very good plot development that's for sure. Shame there's not a game out there like that as it would be rather interesting to say the least. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. this I'm afraid isn't the objection to science I was considdering, sinse it's not just the case that science cannot explain certain things, rather there are certain flaws and inconsistancies in the scientific method that means you need to fill in a lot of gaps via personal opinion. for instance, there is the famous problem of induction which has been around sinse David hume. namely, how can you be certain that any inductive line of reasoning is ultimately going to end in the same conclusion all of the time, the famous, well all the swans I've seen are white so all swans must be white line of thinking. more seriously than that, there is the problem of experimental regress. when a scientist sets up an experiment occurs according to a set of strict principles set by that scientist, ie, experimental conditions. The experiment however is not exactly replicatable, because nobody can have the same conditions, nor are the conclusions of the scientist necessarily shown by the previous data. for instance, a lot of findings of sir humphry davy about the movement of gasses were unable to be replicated by his contemporaries because the equipment he used was very unique, however most people believed him because of his reputation as one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. there is then, the even more serious problem of paradigm shift, that when two opposing scinetific viewpoints colide, it is not actually a case that one will relinquish their theory, rather, you will have two competing modes of scinetific expression,, and the one that wins so to speak is the one that grabs most people's attention. This is not to say science doesn't work, or that study of science is not worth while, only that we should remember sicnece is not the stablishment of ultimate, absolute truth, but the construction of human opinions about the universe, consistant opinions perhaps, but ultimately opinions none the less. the germ theory of desease for instance cannot currently explain the causes of cansa and several other immunological reactions, sinse no foreign organisms are nvolved, and our understanding of the human mind is barely begun. so, while I two have an interest in science, I do not follow people like richard dorkins who think that science is some sort of new religion, and that we are always uncovering truth with it, sinse the past shows sicnece is just as prone to error and mistakes, heck at one time it was scientifically believed that the sun was the center of the universe, or that germs were spontaniusly generated from within rotting meet and other matter, rather than being unique in themselves. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Yes the whole idea of the primes was excellent. Also making the guardians look like a bunch of terrorist nutcases I thought was brilliant especially as they were absolutely right about the starflyer! Definitely 1 of the cleverest sci-fi books I've ever read. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 13 August 2012 17:46 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Daren, Yes, I've read it. At least the first two books in the series at any rate. The trains traveling through wormholes was a pretty unique idea. The Primes were pretty interesting as well. I thought it was interesting that they had been trapped in their own space to keep them from taking over the universe, and the Common Wealth accidentally let them loose to go on a rampage. What luck? Lol! On 8/13/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom. Have you ever tried the commonwealth series by peter f hamelton? That has some really interesting concepts. The weirdest is going from planet to planet via wormhole, but not using starships, but trains of all things! Everything is done on trains! You really should give that a look. it's very good plot development that's for sure. Shame there's not a game out there like that as it would be rather interesting to say the least. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
but I think if you do check it guys, magical items links to each others which turns out to be the same orsimular. with different side effects. like a horcrux is use to separate souls. I think in mid evle times in stories I came across somethings that works well but it had a different name. but how this one works. is that it can separate your soul. but when you destroy it, your soul murges back to 1. that peace murges back with your original. there was even a spell. but I can't remember where I read that. and this one. flame thrower. flame blast, is the same thing? just flame blast is much bigger. just trying to draw a reference between them. so like in space you can look for a item call it something else, with different side effects and effect, and give it a different name look and shape. communicators, walki talky phones skype, and those other technoligies is verry different yet brings you the same resaults in different ways. to talk or communicate with each other. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:49 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, The term Dark Lord is pretty generic all things considered. Darth Vader, for example, is nothing like Voldemort and Sauron yet like many Sith Lords is given the title Dark Lord. So that in of itself is too generic to be considered a parallel between stories. Ditto for magic items. Fantasy stories usually have some kind of magic item that is considered to be evil or will make the user evil over time. It really comes back to that old belief that absolute power corrupts a person absolutely. Its one of those moral lessons that has been passed down from generation to generation through story form. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I agree on tolkien being the ultimate in fantasy literature and world creation, though again with the horcrux and the ring I don't think there is really a paralell, sinse both are part of the more general concept of dangerous magical objects with some degree of sentiencewhich this goes right back to griek or naus mythology. Indeed, Nordic myths had the ring of the neibelung (sorry if I'm mangling spelling), which was not Richard vargna's invention, and griek myths had the ring of gorgias, a ring that would make it's wearer invisible and thus outside of all moral responsability, so would be bound to corrupt them. So Again, both tolkien's ring and the idea of a horcrux I see more asvariations on a central concept, than direct copies of anything. Likewise, both voldemort and sauron use the title the dark lord (as in fact does morgoth in the silmarillion), but neither can be said to be a copy sinse that title is more a general description of a powerfull evil ruler, and the two characters are extremely different. if however someone wrote a book with a dark lord who lived in a black tower, was never seen and most of who's power was contained in a magical object that he was searching for, or a dark lord who was an undead sorcerer who's soul had been split into peaces, well then you could probably say originality was lacking. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
are you basing it on reall live fax? or fiction. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 7:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, Sure, that makes a lot of sense. There is no saying our group of space explorers have to come from a galactic federation at all, nor that the motivation of our space explorers is necessarily nobel. All we have to do is look into our own history to see exploration has always been about the acquisition of wealth rather than the desire to explore the unknown. When Columbus set sail in 1492 he and his fleet were looking for a shortcut from Spain to India by sailing west instead of east. The entire motivation of that exploration wasn't to explore the frontiers of the new world but were solely based on saving money on trade between Spain and India, China, and other countries in Asia. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered sending the expedition west to North and South America. Those who followed Columbus had even less nobel intentions. As we know the Spanish conquistadors raided South America and slaughtered millions of natives while looting them of their gold, their lands, and just about anything else they could get their bloody hands on. The French settled in Canada mainly to capture furs and ship them back to France for clothing while the English settled in places like Virginia to grow tobacco and cotton and have it shipped back to England. No matter how you look at it what we think of as North and South America today were simply there to be plundered by whatever country happened to mount an expedition into the new world. There were no idealistic or nobel ideas of exploring these undiscovered continents for the sake of exploring them. They were simply a way for this or that kingdom to make more wealth. Nothing more and nothing less. I think when we look at the problems confronting today's societies the motivation for people to colonize Mars or any other planet will be based on looking for more natural resources of some kind or another. We now have something like 6.5 billion people living on the earth and land is becoming scarce in some countries. Here in the U.S.A. While the great planes is still largely unsettled traditional farmland like in Ohio is rapidly shrinking as farms are sold off to expand the cities, towns, and build new residential areas. Sooner or later humanity is going to run out of space and natural resources. We will either have to kill off each other fighting for what resources remain, or will have to mount some kind of space exploration to find another planet to use. It may begin as a scientific expedition mounted by NASA or some other scientific agency, but make no mistake the pioneers will probably be no different from those who settled Canada, the United States, and South America. As far as Lost in Space it actually didn't start out as a story of exploration. It was suppose to be a journey from Earth to Alpha Sentori. However, thanks to sabotage from Dr. Smith the Jupiter II was flown off course and the Robinson family were lost in space. Unfortunately, more than half the series was spent grounded on one planet or another rather than out exploring space or trying to find a way home. If we have to use a sci-fi series as a model I think Space 1999 is the best option. According to the pilot a nuclear war causes the moon to be knocked out in space and of course it ends up having a Star Trek feel with the crew of Moon Base Alpha exploring space as though they were on a deep space exploration mission on a ship rather than the moon set adrift. In one way it was like Star Trek with the crew exploring space week after week. In another it was totally different because it was set in more contemporary times, their exploration began by accident, and they had no way home. Their only option was to find a world to settle on that was close enough to Earth to be their new home. Something else that made the story work from a sci-fi point of view is the aliens they encountered had more advanced technology. While the crew of Moon Base Alpha cared guns, flew around in rocket ships,and were using 1999 technology the aliens had UFOs, laser weapons, and were hundreds of years ahead of us in technology. it really gave it a more unique feel than some high tech group of humans exploring space and discovering Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, etc at the same level of evolution and technology we were. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To me, the simple idea of a ship flying through space on an exploration mission is not directly startrek related, provided the ship, universe, characters and aliens are different ones. For example, the series lost in space involved a family
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Rishi, At this point we are simply pontificating on the realistic aspects verses the fictional aspects of popular science fiction. I think that any good science fiction story should strike a decent balance between the two but that is just my opinion of course. Cheers! On 8/13/12, rishi mack cg...@live.com wrote: are you basing it on reall live fax? or fiction. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Yes, I see your point. I think for certain people science has become their religion and rather than using it as a tool to help aid in the discovery of truth they treat it as absolute truth even though science has been known to lead to errors. Some of them as heatedly debated as religious doctrines of faith. For example, former Vice President Al Gore made a comment that there was a consensus among scientists about global warming. That happens to be far from true. There have been many climatologist's who have gone on the record calling global warming a bunch of political bull crap. So who is right and who is wrong? So for guys like Richard Dawkins to come out and tout that science is the be all and end all of any subject when science is just as open to interpretation and error as religion only goes to show for some people like Dawkins science is their religion. There are certain things like memes that have no scientific basis, but Dawkins is on the front line trying to prove that religion, values, etc are memes that are passed on from generation to generation the way genes are. Its crackpot science at its worst. To be honest its exactly for reasons like this I consider myself to be an agnostic. I take a neutral position on anything that is in doubt. There are far too many people lined up on one side or another of an issue and there is very little factual evidence to back up their claims. There are ultra atheists out there like Dawkins who want to prove any and all religions as absolutely false, but often overlooks many of the theories and explanations he is touting are in doubt and are by no means supported by all scientists as fact. Then, there are ultra religious people who will fanatically state this or that religion is a fact rather than their belief even though there is little in the way of provable evidence for that belief. I personally feel in the lack of evidence to prove one theory or another the best choice is not to take sides until there is enough evidence to pick one side or another beyond a reasonable doubt. True science, skeptical science, should do this, but unfortunately many people in the scientific community are just as fanatical about their scientific theories as religious extremists. To give you an example in the God Delusion Richard Dawkins equates rasing our children in a church is child abuse. He suggests that children should be taken away and raised by the state. That's a fanatical position if I have ever heard one, and isn't much different than the Hitler Youth in Natzi Germany. The reason Dawkins takes such an extreme view is that he can't stand the idea that people don't agree with his scientific point of view so children should be indoctrinated in science by force if necessary. Thankfully herein the U.S. we have the freedom of religion and parents are aloud to raise their children in science, religion, or whatever they believe as long as it is within reason. Cheers! On 8/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. this I'm afraid isn't the objection to science I was considdering, sinse it's not just the case that science cannot explain certain things, rather there are certain flaws and inconsistancies in the scientific method that means you need to fill in a lot of gaps via personal opinion. for instance, there is the famous problem of induction which has been around sinse David hume. namely, how can you be certain that any inductive line of reasoning is ultimately going to end in the same conclusion all of the time, the famous, well all the swans I've seen are white so all swans must be white line of thinking. more seriously than that, there is the problem of experimental regress. when a scientist sets up an experiment occurs according to a set of strict principles set by that scientist, ie, experimental conditions. The experiment however is not exactly replicatable, because nobody can have the same conditions, nor are the conclusions of the scientist necessarily shown by the previous data. for instance, a lot of findings of sir humphry davy about the movement of gasses were unable to be replicated by his contemporaries because the equipment he used was very unique, however most people believed him because of his reputation as one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. there is then, the even more serious problem of paradigm shift, that when two opposing scinetific viewpoints colide, it is not actually a case that one will relinquish their theory, rather, you will have two competing modes of scinetific expression,, and the one that wins so to speak is the one that grabs most people's attention. This is not to say science doesn't work, or that study of science is not worth while, only that we should remember sicnece is not the stablishment of ultimate, absolute truth, but the construction of human opinions about the universe, consistant opinions perhaps, but ultimately opinions none the less. the germ
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Thomas and Dark, I have held my tongue on this for quite some time, since it's off topic and a political firestorm issue. However, since our two moderators are the prime participants, I'm not going to worry about being banned for throwing in my two cents. I was raised in a Mormon polygamist splinter group religion. This is more commonly known as a Mormon multiple wife cult. I had two moms, simultaneously in the same house, for several years when I was growing up. If any of you have more cult experience than I do, I'd like to hear about it. Based on my experience and my subsequent investigation into other organized religions over the years, I agree with Dawkins that raising children in a church is bordering on child abuse. When it comes to cults such as the jehovas witnesses, scientology, and mormon splinter groups, it's brutally clear that it's child abuse. And when it comes to cults, I'm totally in support of the state removing children from them, by force if necessary. Just because someone is a parent, doesn't mean that a child is property, and noone has the right to screw up a child the way those groups do. Also based on my background, I agree with him that children should be indoctrinated in the scientific method, again by force if necessary. Science teaches critical thinking and says nothing about religion - anyone who claims otherwise is either teaching it wrong, or has an agenda. Children who learn science can decide to learn religion afterward. However, the converse is not true: a child indoctrinated in a religion from birth will often have tremendous difficulty learning to think critically. Critical thinking is one of the most important skills you could possibly teach a child, and we shortchange both the child and all of society by allowing this idiocy to continue. Finally, this is grossly off topic. We should probably kill this thread and move back to gaming. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: To give you an example in the God Delusion Richard Dawkins equates rasing our children in a church is child abuse. He suggests that children should be taken away and raised by the state. That's a fanatical position if I have ever heard one, and isn't much different than the Hitler Youth in Natzi Germany. The reason Dawkins takes such an extreme view is that he can't stand the idea that people don't agree with his scientific point of view so children should be indoctrinated in science by force if necessary. Thankfully herein the U.S. we have the freedom of religion and parents are aloud to raise their children in science, religion, or whatever they believe as long as it is within reason. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dennis, Yeah, I do think we should steer this topic back to gaming. Debating religion and politics are issues far beyond this list and both are firestorm issues. :D Cheers! On 8/14/12, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Thomas and Dark, I have held my tongue on this for quite some time, since it's off topic and a political firestorm issue. However, since our two moderators are the prime participants, I'm not going to worry about being banned for throwing in my two cents. I was raised in a Mormon polygamist splinter group religion. This is more commonly known as a Mormon multiple wife cult. I had two moms, simultaneously in the same house, for several years when I was growing up. If any of you have more cult experience than I do, I'd like to hear about it. Based on my experience and my subsequent investigation into other organized religions over the years, I agree with Dawkins that raising children in a church is bordering on child abuse. When it comes to cults such as the jehovas witnesses, scientology, and mormon splinter groups, it's brutally clear that it's child abuse. And when it comes to cults, I'm totally in support of the state removing children from them, by force if necessary. Just because someone is a parent, doesn't mean that a child is property, and noone has the right to screw up a child the way those groups do. Also based on my background, I agree with him that children should be indoctrinated in the scientific method, again by force if necessary. Science teaches critical thinking and says nothing about religion - anyone who claims otherwise is either teaching it wrong, or has an agenda. Children who learn science can decide to learn religion afterward. However, the converse is not true: a child indoctrinated in a religion from birth will often have tremendous difficulty learning to think critically. Critical thinking is one of the most important skills you could possibly teach a child, and we shortchange both the child and all of society by allowing this idiocy to continue. Finally, this is grossly off topic. We should probably kill this thread and move back to gaming. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Rishi, Absolutely not. What Dark and I are discussing is the creation of a fully developed, well thought out roll playing game, that would be a stand alone program. Dark and I are both interested in a science fiction roll playing game that has a large explorable world or universe from the point of view of a single player. A mud fits neither requirement because its not a stand alone application, and many muds require some kind of pvp interaction which goes against our personal preferences. Cheers! On 8/11/12, rishi mack cg...@live.com wrote: Are you guys talking about MUD or which Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, That is unfortunately all too common these days. It seems no matter what we do such as turn on the television, pick up a book, or play a new video game it seems like the authors lack any sense of originality and inspiration for something really new. Lacking some new and innovative story or concept they continue using cookie cutter characters, in cookie cutter plots, in increasingly similar situations until the general public just gets tired of it. Take for example Deep Space 9. During seasons 5 and 6 it seemed like every single episode was about the Dominion War.The story ark kept going on and on about the same subject, and eventually I simply got board with it. When they killed off Jadzia Dax in season 6 and brought Ezry Dax in to season 7 I simply switched the show off. They simply ran the show into the ground and killed it. Especially, considering the way they ended the series in the final episode. The thing is that one of the biggest problems with Deep Space 9 all along is that the story took place on a fixed space station in Bajoran space, near a wormhole, with very little exploration to speak of. Week after week Sisco, Kira, Dax, and the rest were dealing with the Cardassians, Jemhadar, Bajorans, Romulans, Ferengi, and other well established alien races when they could have done a lot more to explore the Gamma Quadrant to bring more alien races and new stories into the show. They didn't. Now, compare that to Voyager when the Star Trek creative writers were constantly chucking out new ideas for aliens, planets, and so on. Obviously, to save time and money they had to recycle some of those new races such as the Kazon, Vidians, Species 8472, the Herogen, etc but they were not featured week after week. There were some one shot deals like the Swarm that were introduced to spice up the plot with a greater and more diverse universe. Which was why I think Voyager had a much larger audience than Deep Space 9. There was always a sense of surprise and perhaps expectation to get something really new rather than a rehashing of the same thing different show. Like you I always appreciated the exploration of the story's world, its universe, and its characters most. That is why Deep Space9 failed for me, because it became more of a soap opera rather than a story about daring space explorers who were there to seek out new life, new civilizations, and to go where no man has gone before. Deep Space 9 did none of those things because they were often caught up in some long drawn out story lines involving already existing alien races that killed the exploration driven ark that was the draw of the Original Series, Next Generation, and Voyager. Anyway, getting back on topic here, I think that any roll playing game should work from the premise of ordinary people in extra ordinary situations. One reason for that is a sense of reality that the player can understand. I personally feel we should try not to over do the aliens that the characters meet, and not come up with technologies that are in all likely impossible. Try and create aliens and technologies that could exist based on what we know about science. For instance, I personally don't think something like a transporter will ever be possible given what we know about the laws of physics. First,of all it would require a huge amount of energy to break the human body down into raw energy, and then beam it from point A to point B. Then, there would have to be just as much energy to convert it back into solid matter once it gets there. That's not even considering a living breathing organism like a human being could survive such a process of being converted from matter to energy and back again. That just seems beyond belief as far as I'm personally concerned. Something else that puzzles me about science fiction is the concept of cross-breeding between alien races. According to current genetic research human genes are incompatible with every other species on earth including: apes, monkeys, chimps, and other primates which are about 98%% compatible with us. Wouldn't mating with aliens in all likelyhood suffer the same kinds of incompatibilities with breeding unless it were forced via some genetic splicing in a lab? Apparently not if you watch something like Star Trek. There are all kinds of half-breeds that appears on the shows. Commander Spock's mother was a human and his father was a Vulcan. Counselor Deana Troi had a human father and a Betazoid mother. Lieutenant B'lanna Torres is half-Klingon and half-human. On and on we can go. These so-called half-breeds exist without any attempt to explain why human and alien genes are compatible. In fact, the only cross-breed in Star Trek that makes any kind of sense in a scientific point of view is Jadzia Dax. In her case she is fully human, but lives in a symbiotic union with the Trill inside her body. In this way the trill alien is using her body as a host the way many parasites on earth use the host body of an
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren, Oh, there is nothing wrong with inspiration in of itself. The problem Dark and I are talking about here is taking story x and simply replacing names of people, places, and things and sticking new labels on them. In a case like that it is not an original idea inspired by an existing one, but merely a case of renaming everything to keep from being busted for copyright infringement. For example, what if I created a character named Panama Jack, gave him a hat and whip, and a girl friendnamed Marianne Summers. Now, right off the top of your head you probably would have guessed I'm thinking of Indiana Jones and Marianne Ravenwood under new aliases, and you'd be absolutely correct. What's the problem with that? Well, the problem is I didn't spend any time on developing my own characters. All I did is create a cookie cutter copy of Indiana Jones and Marianne Ravenwood and slapped them in some kind of treasure hunt. It would be more interesting in my opinion to sit down and develop a new cast of characters with their own personalities, own back story, and values different from those that the author was inspired by. Instead of an Indiana Jones type character we can give our Panama Jack character a more unique back story. What if Jack was born and raised in Australia, served in the military, and went to college for archeology in the U.S. before obtaining a teaching position at some ivy league university. Since his training in the special forces maybe he packs a pistol and of course is an expert at hand to hand fighting. This would establish his qualifications for the story. All we then need to do is fill in the enemies who might be in a power struggle for some kind of ancient artifacts. Bottom line, the more information I layer on my character the less and less he is a duplicate of Indiana Jones. The original idea might have been an Indiana Jones character, but fleshing out my own character would make a more interesting and unique storyline over all. Cheers! On 8/11/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: hi tom. personally, i don't see anything wrong with being inspired by other tv series. to be inspired isn't to copy as long as it's done in a way that shows it's your own work. i mean, what's the difference between a tele porter, transporter or transmat beam? however if you want a bit of original science fiction i can point you in the right direction. try the commonwealth series. first starting with pandora's star. you should find it on audible. also stormwarden that's the start of another series. both very cleverly written. either of those books should help to add some additional ideas there. Sent from my iPad --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. Well with voyager and ds9 I have some thoughts about strengths and weaknesses of the series, but that's sort of outside the main focus of discussion here. I'm afraid I disagree that science fiction has! to rigidly follow current scientific thinking for a story to work, indeed I've read a good few hard sf novels which were! essentially just extrapolations of existing scientific concepts, but did nothing for plot, setting or characterization. Isaac asimov for instance, while I find his concepts such as the laws of robotics and the idea of psychohistory intreaguing as ideas, I rarely find his characters engaging, and his plots always read basically as mystery style puzzles, very clever puzzles, but essentially just problems that are solved by fairly emotionnless, comparatively uninteresting people. I also am a little more scheptical of our own scientific knolidge. For instance, Fredrich pohl imagined something very close to the modern internet in the 1950's, with everyone carrying personal computers and keeping in touch, but he believed that such transmissions of large amounts of data without them being corrupted by radio signals or the like would be impossible without certain alien crystal technology. Now of course, thanks to the digitizing of information and far more efficient ways of receiving various transmissions, we know that no alien crystals are needed to accurately share data across large distances. So, I personally do not mind an alien race having transporters, faster than light travel etc, provided! it is treated in a consistant and logical way that the reader can understand within the context of the suspention of disbelief of the story. In doctor who for instance, one of my biggest problems with the current series is how time travel is treated. the doctor is an alien from a highly advanced civilization who have the technology of time travel. Yet, the writers realized that a time traveling hero has the power to solve any plot, sinse after all if anything goes wrong he can just go back and change it. So, they introduced the concept of the blinovich limitation effect, by which if the Doctor actually travels back to his own past to try to change events, he will cause catastrophic damage to the universe, sinse obviously any changes he made in the past might prevent him from going back in the future. So, though the doctor can! travel around time and space, the abilities of the tardis to solve plots or get him out of trouble are limited, and limited in a way which we can all understand. In the new series however, the writers seem to be completely ignoring this and treating time travel like magic! indeed I've been extremely disappointed at several episodes where a future doctor suddenly appears and goes hay, lets solve the plot! So, here is an advanced technology, probably impossible under current scientific thinking, yet we can see it can be treated well or badly by a story. Like wise with genetics. Yes, Belana being half klingon doesn't make much scientific sense, --- -but heck the idea of even mostly humanoid! klingons doesn't make much sense either. It does however present some really interesting opportunities for the character to come to terms with Klingon culture and Klingon features. On the other hand, when in the doctor who tv movie made by fox the doctor claimed to be half human, it was just utter nonsense, sinse the doctor has never made such a claime before, there is no evidence of half human, half timelords, and indeed the classic series even implied that Timelords weren't born naturally at all! Such a statement was simply the producers deciding that the Doctor needed to be a less alien character, and making up a very implausable reason. So, while I agree consistancy is the key, I wouldn't want to be tied utterly to science in the plot of a game or indeed fiction, provided that the none scientific elements are consistant. this is doubly true for a game, where certain elements of technology might need to be considdered in light of game mechanics. For example, one idea I'd heavily considder for an sf based game would be instant, ftl travel where a ship could jump a vast distance very quickly, appearing somewhere else and giving the player another encounter. Provided such technology could be considdered in a reasonable light, and has at least an understandable basis, this would I think be fine. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I also find it rather irritating myself when plot ideas or elements were clearly borrowed from other books, even when the author did! start with an original idea. Rick riordon's series of books about griek gods in the modern age for instance, had a very unique idea, the half mortal, half devine children of gods growing up in the modern world, with the griek gods brought into the 21st century. I absolutely loved to see the way he used concepts like the titans, atlas etc, for instance having Aeres the griek god of war as a Biker who goes around picking fights, and Nephestus god of the forge as a mechanic who tinkers and creates sort of semi pulp style brass robotic automatons. What however irritated me is that many of the actual elements of the ongoing story were worryingly close to harry potter.for instance, a magical summer camp where kids with half devine parents got unusual magical lessons, the idea that there was some sort of prophecy about the main character and one other character which will come true in a war when he is 17, and that this prophecy resulted from a less than reliable seeress. The way the final book delves heavily into the villains back story and childhood to explain his motivations etc. I njoyed the series for it's fun quality and updates of griek myths,, but I found the actual ongoing story and progression of events utterly uninspired and easy to predict because of their worrying similarities to harry potter, heck, even the books titles, percy jaxon and the lightning thief Percy jaxon and the maze of time clearly were rowling enspired. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Well, That I can work with. not really a fan of PVP most of the times. so if you guys need any help with sounds, ideas, or just running through some ideas, I can brainstorm with you guysanyway. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 2:17 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Rishi, Absolutely not. What Dark and I are discussing is the creation of a fully developed, well thought out roll playing game, that would be a stand alone program. Dark and I are both interested in a science fiction roll playing game that has a large explorable world or universe from the point of view of a single player. A mud fits neither requirement because its not a stand alone application, and many muds require some kind of pvp interaction which goes against our personal preferences. Cheers! On 8/11/12, rishi mack cg...@live.com wrote: Are you guys talking about MUD or which Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, I see your point. I guess its just that I'm a very grounded person, an ultra realist, and the older I get the more skeptical I get about the fantastic. On the other hand you make an excellent point about a story may not be at all realistic in a scientific sense but have extremely good character development, a unique storyline, etc that is very compelling to the gamer. For example, when I was growing up my very favorite cartoon was Masters of the Universe. I think one reason it was so compelling is that the storyline was as much fantasy as science fiction. It truly was unique for its time, and unlike most science fiction and fantasy cartoons the authors were thinking out of the box to create something unlike anything else available. On one hand the people of Eternia lived in a sort of mediaeval world with kings, castles, knights, and ancient weapons. Both heroes and villains could use magic. At the same time the Eternians possessed futuristic technology like laser weapons, Attack Tracks, flying Wind Raiders, robots, etc. Now this seems a bit strange to me, but it worked for that particular cartoon. Anyway, at the time I didn't think anything of it, and while the story is totally unrealistic from a scientific oriented point of view the back story was well done. The authors did an excellent job of mixing science fiction with fantasy for the best of both genres. Plus the characters all had great back stories, were well developed, and even now I can sit down and watch those cartoons over and over again on DVD without getting tired of them. Bottom line, I guess you have a good point. Creativity counts much more for a game, successful cartoon, science fiction series, whatever than how realistic it is. Frankly, some of the most boring science fiction movies were those in which the author tried to have an authentic scientific experience. The movie 2001 is a case in point where Arthur C. Clark chose to stick with a more scientific basis for his stories and it never really appealed to me for some reason. Cheers! On 8/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Well with voyager and ds9 I have some thoughts about strengths and weaknesses of the series, but that's sort of outside the main focus of discussion here. I'm afraid I disagree that science fiction has! to rigidly follow current scientific thinking for a story to work, indeed I've read a good few hard sf novels which were! essentially just extrapolations of existing scientific concepts, but did nothing for plot, setting or characterization. Isaac asimov for instance, while I find his concepts such as the laws of robotics and the idea of psychohistory intreaguing as ideas, I rarely find his characters engaging, and his plots always read basically as mystery style puzzles, very clever puzzles, but essentially just problems that are solved by fairly emotionnless, comparatively uninteresting people. I also am a little more scheptical of our own scientific knolidge. For instance, Fredrich pohl imagined something very close to the modern internet in the 1950's, with everyone carrying personal computers and keeping in touch, but he believed that such transmissions of large amounts of data without them being corrupted by radio signals or the like would be impossible without certain alien crystal technology. Now of course, thanks to the digitizing of information and far more efficient ways of receiving various transmissions, we know that no alien crystals are needed to accurately share data across large distances. So, I personally do not mind an alien race having transporters, faster than light travel etc, provided! it is treated in a consistant and logical way that the reader can understand within the context of the suspention of disbelief of the story. In doctor who for instance, one of my biggest problems with the current series is how time travel is treated. the doctor is an alien from a highly advanced civilization who have the technology of time travel. Yet, the writers realized that a time traveling hero has the power to solve any plot, sinse after all if anything goes wrong he can just go back and change it. So, they introduced the concept of the blinovich limitation effect, by which if the Doctor actually travels back to his own past to try to change events, he will cause catastrophic damage to the universe, sinse obviously any changes he made in the past might prevent him from going back in the future. So, though the doctor can! travel around time and space, the abilities of the tardis to solve plots or get him out of trouble are limited, and limited in a way which we can all understand. In the new series however, the writers seem to be completely ignoring this and treating time travel like magic! indeed I've been extremely disappointed at several episodes where a future doctor suddenly appears and goes hay, lets solve the plot! So, here is an advanced technology, probably
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, That's precisely the kind of thing I'm talking about. I've read the Percy Jackson books myself, and as you say they are distressingly like Harry Potter in many ways. they are good for what they are, but I think the author could have came up with a better plot. Something a bit more unique rather than trying to imitate J. K. Rowling. Still, I think I understand the author's motivations. I've written several sci-fi stories and I used Star Trek as a basic template. I find the entire premise of seaking out new life, new civilizations, to go were no man has gone before extremely compelling because it is a completely open ended premise. All an author needs is a deep space exploration vessel, a crew, and that author can create as many new worlds, alien lifeforms, and civilizations as he or she wants. For example, during high school I started my own spin-off series called Star Trek: Last Frontier. I created my own starship, crew, and like the original series it was on a five year mission to explore the unknown regions of space. That home grown series of stories was probably my best creative writing because I had the basic premise, technology, as well as history, but it was also based in a totally new sector of space so I had as much room as I needed to explore, to create, and add to the Star Trek cannon so to speak. Cheers! On 8/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I also find it rather irritating myself when plot ideas or elements were clearly borrowed from other books, even when the author did! start with an original idea. Rick riordon's series of books about griek gods in the modern age for instance, had a very unique idea, the half mortal, half devine children of gods growing up in the modern world, with the griek gods brought into the 21st century. I absolutely loved to see the way he used concepts like the titans, atlas etc, for instance having Aeres the griek god of war as a Biker who goes around picking fights, and Nephestus god of the forge as a mechanic who tinkers and creates sort of semi pulp style brass robotic automatons. What however irritated me is that many of the actual elements of the ongoing story were worryingly close to harry potter.for instance, a magical summer camp where kids with half devine parents got unusual magical lessons, the idea that there was some sort of prophecy about the main character and one other character which will come true in a war when he is 17, and that this prophecy resulted from a less than reliable seeress. The way the final book delves heavily into the villains back story and childhood to explain his motivations etc. I njoyed the series for it's fun quality and updates of griek myths,, but I found the actual ongoing story and progression of events utterly uninspired and easy to predict because of their worrying similarities to harry potter, heck, even the books titles, percy jaxon and the lightning thief Percy jaxon and the maze of time clearly were rowling enspired. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
hi tom. personally, i don't see anything wrong with being inspired by other tv series. to be inspired isn't to copy as long as it's done in a way that shows it's your own work. i mean, what's the difference between a tele porter, transporter or transmat beam? however if you want a bit of original science fiction i can point you in the right direction. try the commonwealth series. first starting with pandora's star. you should find it on audible. also stormwarden that's the start of another series. both very cleverly written. either of those books should help to add some additional ideas there. Sent from my iPad On 11 Aug 2012, at 02:54, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Sounds fair enough. Heaven knows I could use an extra person to help me develop ideas for a great space exploration adventure. Its not that I'm out of ideas precisely but that I've gotten set in my ways. Over the years I've been heavily influenced by other people's ideas and its hard to separate that from my own ideas. What I mean by that is I'm a child of the 70's and 80's. I was around when Star Wars was introduced to the public, I became a huge fan of that particular science fiction storyline, and it has become a major influence in my life. I've read books, collected action figures, watched the movies, and now its a part of my life. At the same time I was around when Star Trek made its major come back. When the show was canceled in 1969 everyone pretty much assumed that it would fade away, be forgotten, and never be heard of again. Throughout the 70's though a strange thing happened. As Star Trek went through reruns it became more popular in syndication than during its original 1966 to 1969 run. Inspired by this serge of new viewership Paramount came out with Star Trek the Motion picture, and the other sequels. Eventually, Paramount would go on to create three new series: Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, and Enterprise which were more popular than the original show that started it all. Bottom line, you can pick any classic SF author from the 40's, 50's, and even the 60's and they all could think out of the box. There was no extremely popular science fiction movies or weekly television series to influence their writing and compare their work to. In fact, all of the early science fiction movies like War of the Worlds, the Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, the Blob, etc were given B movie status. No producer or film studio was going to go out on a limb to make a big budget film dealing with aliens, UFOs, and space travel. Big budget SF really didn't come into its own until movies like Star Wars put science fiction on the map for the average person. The end result of all this is growing up my primary sources of science fiction were Buck Rodjers, Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Lost in Space, the Invaders, and V.That's not such a bad thing per say, but certain things like Star Trek have both inspired my imagination and dulled it at the same time. To give you an example of what I mean I'll take you back to a high school class assignment. My teacher posted several pictures on the board and we were suppose to pick one and write a story about it. As it happened one of the pictures was a spaceship, and I naturally picked that one. Now, I obviously wasn't allowed to write a story about Buck Rodjers, Star Trek, Star Wars, or any other well known sci-fi series. I remember spending a couple of days struggling to think of something original.In the end I couldn't do it. What I ended up with is a Star Trek wannabe with some Star Wars references thrown in for good measure. For example, instead of the Star Trek communicator I decided to borrow the Star Wars comlink for my crew. Instead of carrying phasers my crew were carrying around hand blasters. Instead of ship phasers I think the ship had ion cannons. Like where have wee seen this technology before? Of course that was Star Wars contribution to the mix. Warp drive, transporters, tricorders, and several other things were from Star Trek. The Cydonians was an obvious reference to the Cylons from Battlestar Galactica. On and on I could go. I think I probably lifted every good idea anyone ever had from some sci-fi series or another. I didn't invent or create anything on my own. It took me several years before I realized why I disliked the story so much. When I got into college and took a creative writing course the instructor taught us how to outline our thoughts, flesh out ideas, and give them substance before we sat down and wrote any kind of story. He taught us how to filter out ideas that were used by someone else and either improve it or replaceit with something more unique. As it happened that course did improve both my writing and my next attempt at a science fiction story was much better. It was about this time when I realized exactly why I
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. I must admit this is one thing that slightly irritates me about even several published authors. Terry brooks for instance, where every character is drawn straight from the DD players guide, and where all the magic basically falls down to chucking fireballs! For me, it was always the exploration of the world and it's character which I appreciated most, either in sf or fantasy, indeed tolkien's formula of ordinary characters in extra ordinary situations pretty much somes up my idea of how to write. The first story I wrote when i was 15 for a local writers group for instance, which was publically performed by a local actor, was a short sf story based on two principle ideas, first, what would happen to a society who had no concept of death or grieving, and second, what would things be like if humans who went out to explore strange new worlds, seak out new life etc, were actually (much like the spanish conquistadors), complete scumbags! indeed, there's a slight startrek parody, in which one of the human characters begins an entry ship's log, I'm utterly, completely and totally sick of being on this fucking! ship! (not words I'd use, but words that character would use). While I can now see a number of writing inconsistancies with the story, word problems etc, I don't have an issue with it's actual concept. For years I wrote the novelization of the playstation rpg xenogears, which I now view as the best possible training on how to write. But these days I actually really want! to start writing my own stuff, and the only reason i haven't is of course working on my thesis. I in fact have a full scale gamebook planned, where the society, culture and events are! (hopefully), unique, and I plan to work on this when my thesis is done. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I think that's a good idea. and do you know like metroid, or let's say Zelda for example. just like you move around on there. swamp has that same layout for moving around. just it's a shooting game. not a adventure game. I think also, if you were to do a Zelda, it'll work. or even if you guys hurd about double O7, that can work with that kind of programming that was used in swamp... amd you can even add PKP in it. for 1/2/3/4 players. if not hosted on a server, you can do it like how they made topspeed and let someone host a server for multiplayer. but I think these are some good idea to improve gamaplay for the blind. and if you're using graphs, which is good too so sighted can play... If I knew what kind of programming swamp needed and if I could get set up with the rite tools, I could check it out too learn to do that. maby you never know I can come up with some stuff too... but yup... Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:37 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I think what you should, is like wen someone collects an item, someone has to wate till it repops to get the item. so like it'll take some time to repop Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Kaldobsky Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 12:34 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games The only real problem with this design is the relatively short amount of time it takes players to find everything, and then the game loses its re playability. Lets, for example, pretend Swamp was filled with these sorts of keys which were specifically placed and would unlock other specific areas. If I were to spend 30 hours linking together 50 items with locations, naming them, placing them, and actually designing the new map terrain, I can bet that within a few days 300 players would have already completed the entire thing. These players would be waiting on me to add more. For every hour I spent adding in new items, I would only be occupying the players for maybe 3 or 4. When we use random items that don't unlock new map content, the 50 items can be created in an hour instead of 30. The same items can also then be found and re-found over and over to keep players entertained. It isn't as much fun, there is no doubt about that, but it's an unfortunate compromise in the battle between developer effort verses hours of player enjoyment. i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Are you guys talking about MUD or which Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:40 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, So true. We are definitely lacking in good science fiction text adventures as well as roll playing games. As a huge fan of science fiction I'd love to see a text based roll playing game with hundreds of planets, space stations, aliens, and high tech gadgets to explore. That would totally rock. The heck of it is if someone doesn't mind using copyrighted materials there are plenty of popular series to choose from including: Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Gate, etc just for starts. If someone doesn't want to step on any toes by using copyrighted materials its not that hard to take a concept like Star Trek and modify it for someone's purposes. I've done it myself for a number of creative writing courses, and all it takes is a bit of imagination. Instead of the United Federation of Planets a person could call it the United Republic of Planets or Republic for short. Instead of warp drive a person could call it something generic like star drive. Instead of transporters a person could call them teleporters which is so generic no one can claim copyright of the idea. On and on I could go. Its really not that difficult to modify an existing idea and make it work for a decent roll playing game, but as yet no one has stepped up to the plate and worked on such a game. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Something like miriani are you looking for? Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:40 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, So true. We are definitely lacking in good science fiction text adventures as well as roll playing games. As a huge fan of science fiction I'd love to see a text based roll playing game with hundreds of planets, space stations, aliens, and high tech gadgets to explore. That would totally rock. The heck of it is if someone doesn't mind using copyrighted materials there are plenty of popular series to choose from including: Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Gate, etc just for starts. If someone doesn't want to step on any toes by using copyrighted materials its not that hard to take a concept like Star Trek and modify it for someone's purposes. I've done it myself for a number of creative writing courses, and all it takes is a bit of imagination. Instead of the United Federation of Planets a person could call it the United Republic of Planets or Republic for short. Instead of warp drive a person could call it something generic like star drive. Instead of transporters a person could call them teleporters which is so generic no one can claim copyright of the idea. On and on I could go. Its really not that difficult to modify an existing idea and make it work for a decent roll playing game, but as yet no one has stepped up to the plate and worked on such a game. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
anyone interested in a rpg game bassed on lambda can let me know I'd like some help on one. Rishi D Mack Skype: zmackrishi Email: cg...@live.com Feel free to contact me anytime :) -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 8:22 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games HI Dark, Well, you certainly raise some good points here. I agree something original would certainly be preferable than a Star Trek knock-off. I was merely pointing out that one wouldn't have to invent everything from scratch if they used a template. However, for myself I probably wouldn't try to copy Star Trek for the same reasons as you gave below. Namely that it would look like a cheap knock-off and therefore wouldn't be as satisfying as really exploring strange new worlds, too seek out new life, too seek out new civilizations, and to go where no man has gone before. Sorry, just had to say that. Lol! Anyway, I have to agree with you on the fact that Star Trek tends to be too idealistic and the Federation is often represented as some kind of future utopian society. For one thing I personally feel such a view of humanity is completely unrealistic, and from a gaming point of view doesn't have enough intrigue to keep the gamer interested in the storyline. If we populate the galaxy with hundreds of worlds, hundreds of races, all with their own interests and beliefs then that gives the game much more room to grow and expand. Especially, since we have more freedom to create each of our alien races from scratch. The problem with Star Trek is, as you pointed out, that most of them are very human looking. The reason for that is simple enough. Its called money. From what I understand back in the mid 1960's when Star Trek was being created Dessy Lu gave the Star Trek production staff a limited budget to work with. Since costumes and special effects were extremely expensive they always found ways to cut corners on production costs. The easiest way they could do that is by giving the Vulcans, Romulans, and Klingons pointed ears and a different set of clothing. Really really cheap aliens to be sure. Problem is 20 years later when Next Generation came along they had a lot bigger budget from Paramount Television, but all the known alien races like Vulcans and Romulans were set in that 1960's style of humans with really pointed ears. The only aliens that had a dramatic make over was the Klingons which got a new ridge on their foreheads, pointed teeth, longer hair, and beards. They looked more alien than their 60's counterparts, but were still pretty human looking. Point being that practically from the day shooting began Star Trek's aliens were a victim of budgetary concerns. While there have been some alien looking aliens throughout the later series the fact of the matter is the more human looking races were used primarily to cut production costs down. Fortunately, for us we don't have that problem. Since our game will be primarily text it costs us nothing but a little time to describe a totally unique creature that is more alien than any television show or movie would. Plus since we aren't concerned with Class M planets we can create worlds with a totally different environment than our own that would be truly alien. What such a world and its aliens would look like I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm sure I'd have fun thinking up such a totally new concept from scratch. Cheers! On 8/10/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree that we need more sf games, but I'm afraid I disagree that modifying existing fiction is intrinsically a good idea. For instance, if I was playing a game in which you were captain cook of the star ship endeaver, exploring planets on behalf of the union of confederated worlds, encountering races such as the war like Kringor and the cunning rymans, it would just feel like a cheap copy to me, and indeed the similarity to existing material would make it feel unoriginal. Rather, I'd love to see a game that used basic sf concepts, eg, travel through hyper space, alien races etc, to tell a new story, and give us something to explore that we haven't seen before. For instance, in startrek the federation is sort of the goodie two shoes of the galaxy, what would happen if the federation were a bit more like a real human country, ie, mostly out for their own interests. While Babylon 5 explored this idea, babylon 5 also had humans as one of the five or so major powers, well what would happen if humans weren't! a major power, but comparatively miner in scale, perhaps being employed as mercenaries or pawns in alien wars. Also, where do humans get! the technology able to fly through space, perhaps it's alien in origin to begin with. The heechee novels by fredrich pohl (or at least the first two
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. I agree with all of this, and though I never got to play those dos text adventures back in the 90's, mostly simply because I didn't know such things existed for pc computers (a pc was for working on after all), I have played several sinse, in fact as you know at the moment I'm beta testing Eamon deluxe, and some of the adventures produced for that platform are really exceptional, especially because Eamon has so few verbs to use, simply get glass and drink glass when you want to drink the water will do. the only issue with eamon at the moment, is that though the graphical version will! be multiplatform, because dosbox and screen readers won't cooperate, the only way of running it is through the windows console, which won't work on 64 bit windows. I know Frank is trying to find a way around this, but nothing has come up as yet. As you know I've largely given up on playing if these days sinse the puzzles and such just got too frustrating when I want to continue with the story. I actually very much want to write an text rpg of some sort myself, though whether that would mean learning python, bgt or some other language, or just using the eamon dungeon designer and learning enough basic to add what specials I want I'm not sure. I do have an rpg and complete combat system in mind in my brain, it's just a case of finding the best avinue to make it work when i have time. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. I know Aprone has said castaways because of the way it was coded was pretty much expanded as far as it could go, so it's probably more a question of Aprone developing a castaways Ii in the future. Much as I like swamp (though my account is probably gone as I haven't played for a while), I do hope Aprone would considder a larger castaways as his next project, sinse I don't think any stratogy game has quite grabbed my attention in the same way castaways did, and I'd love to see more, indeed, as far as I'm concerned, the more complex the better! Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I hate to disagree with you on this point dark: castaways grabbed my intention, but for all the wrong reasons: it just didn't feel right at all, and whenever I tried to build anything it was like you can't build here I just got so sick of the idea that I threw it out with the rest of the virtual trash :d if only the readme was easy to understand for that game... :d -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 10 August 2012 08:21 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Tom. I know Aprone has said castaways because of the way it was coded was pretty much expanded as far as it could go, so it's probably more a question of Aprone developing a castaways Ii in the future. Much as I like swamp (though my account is probably gone as I haven't played for a while), I do hope Aprone would considder a larger castaways as his next project, sinse I don't think any stratogy game has quite grabbed my attention in the same way castaways did, and I'd love to see more, indeed, as far as I'm concerned, the more complex the better! Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5189 - Release Date: 08/09/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Tom. I agree that we need more sf games, but I'm afraid I disagree that modifying existing fiction is intrinsically a good idea. For instance, if I was playing a game in which you were captain cook of the star ship endeaver, exploring planets on behalf of the union of confederated worlds, encountering races such as the war like Kringor and the cunning rymans, it would just feel like a cheap copy to me, and indeed the similarity to existing material would make it feel unoriginal. Rather, I'd love to see a game that used basic sf concepts, eg, travel through hyper space, alien races etc, to tell a new story, and give us something to explore that we haven't seen before. For instance, in startrek the federation is sort of the goodie two shoes of the galaxy, what would happen if the federation were a bit more like a real human country, ie, mostly out for their own interests. While Babylon 5 explored this idea, babylon 5 also had humans as one of the five or so major powers, well what would happen if humans weren't! a major power, but comparatively miner in scale, perhaps being employed as mercenaries or pawns in alien wars. Also, where do humans get! the technology able to fly through space, perhaps it's alien in origin to begin with. The heechee novels by fredrich pohl (or at least the first two), for instance imagine humanity discovering an asteroid full of alien ships, but nobody has any idea how to fly them so it's just a case of set the preset controls and see where you end up. Perhaps near some valuable alien tech or astronomical data that could make you rich, or perhaps too close to a neutron star! Same goes for planet exploring really, indeed one of the things that always confused me a bit in startrek was the way that so many alien races looked human, what happened to the real! aliens, (this was actually one thing I think Doctor who got right). Just some thoughts, but personally sinse it's the exploration of different worlds I' appreciate, it'd be nice if those worlds could! be different, rather than just a rehash of what we've seen before. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. i wasn't really thinking of easter eggs, sinse easter eggs are usually more of an after thought than anything else, I was thinking of items which were actually in the game to collect, but which the average player would probably only collect half of. Look at the zelda games for example. Heart peaces to expand your energy meater are scattered around the game hidden in different locations, but you don't need! all of them to finish the game. Suppose for instance in mota in each level you included an energy boost that would raise your health by 10 percent, rather like the heart tanks in the mega man x games. A player could! complete the game on the standard %100 energy, though bits would be fairly tough, but if a player explores every inch of every level, they will get rewarded. Once a player finishes the game, they could then also spend time trying to find all those expantions. This also means that you could hide expantions in especially hard to find or hard to reach places as well, sinse your not expecting! players to gather them first time around. This is the sort of thing I meant, more than bonus easter eggs which required random actions to unlock. I personally much prefer expantions that players can work! towards getting, than random content that you would only find out about if you pick up the keyboard, press z a b d c e f, spin round three times singing puff the magic dragon and then hitt escape! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
That's a shame ben, sinse the game is exceptional! Maybe if you give it another try you could let us know the problems your having, sinse as I said I'm well impressed with the game. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Well, if you ever want to join forces on a RPG project let me know. Although, I use to do a lot of creative writing in my younger years all the good ideas seem to have vanished once I hit 30 or so. So if you want to be the brains I can certainly be the programmer. :D Cheers! On 8/10/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree with all of this, and though I never got to play those dos text adventures back in the 90's, mostly simply because I didn't know such things existed for pc computers (a pc was for working on after all), I have played several sinse, in fact as you know at the moment I'm beta testing Eamon deluxe, and some of the adventures produced for that platform are really exceptional, especially because Eamon has so few verbs to use, simply get glass and drink glass when you want to drink the water will do. the only issue with eamon at the moment, is that though the graphical version will! be multiplatform, because dosbox and screen readers won't cooperate, the only way of running it is through the windows console, which won't work on 64 bit windows. I know Frank is trying to find a way around this, but nothing has come up as yet. As you know I've largely given up on playing if these days sinse the puzzles and such just got too frustrating when I want to continue with the story. I actually very much want to write an text rpg of some sort myself, though whether that would mean learning python, bgt or some other language, or just using the eamon dungeon designer and learning enough basic to add what specials I want I'm not sure. I do have an rpg and complete combat system in mind in my brain, it's just a case of finding the best avinue to make it work when i have time. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
HI Dark, Well, you certainly raise some good points here. I agree something original would certainly be preferable than a Star Trek knock-off. I was merely pointing out that one wouldn't have to invent everything from scratch if they used a template. However, for myself I probably wouldn't try to copy Star Trek for the same reasons as you gave below. Namely that it would look like a cheap knock-off and therefore wouldn't be as satisfying as really exploring strange new worlds, too seek out new life, too seek out new civilizations, and to go where no man has gone before. Sorry, just had to say that. Lol! Anyway, I have to agree with you on the fact that Star Trek tends to be too idealistic and the Federation is often represented as some kind of future utopian society. For one thing I personally feel such a view of humanity is completely unrealistic, and from a gaming point of view doesn't have enough intrigue to keep the gamer interested in the storyline. If we populate the galaxy with hundreds of worlds, hundreds of races, all with their own interests and beliefs then that gives the game much more room to grow and expand. Especially, since we have more freedom to create each of our alien races from scratch. The problem with Star Trek is, as you pointed out, that most of them are very human looking. The reason for that is simple enough. Its called money. From what I understand back in the mid 1960's when Star Trek was being created Dessy Lu gave the Star Trek production staff a limited budget to work with. Since costumes and special effects were extremely expensive they always found ways to cut corners on production costs. The easiest way they could do that is by giving the Vulcans, Romulans, and Klingons pointed ears and a different set of clothing. Really really cheap aliens to be sure. Problem is 20 years later when Next Generation came along they had a lot bigger budget from Paramount Television, but all the known alien races like Vulcans and Romulans were set in that 1960's style of humans with really pointed ears. The only aliens that had a dramatic make over was the Klingons which got a new ridge on their foreheads, pointed teeth, longer hair, and beards. They looked more alien than their 60's counterparts, but were still pretty human looking. Point being that practically from the day shooting began Star Trek's aliens were a victim of budgetary concerns. While there have been some alien looking aliens throughout the later series the fact of the matter is the more human looking races were used primarily to cut production costs down. Fortunately, for us we don't have that problem. Since our game will be primarily text it costs us nothing but a little time to describe a totally unique creature that is more alien than any television show or movie would. Plus since we aren't concerned with Class M planets we can create worlds with a totally different environment than our own that would be truly alien. What such a world and its aliens would look like I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm sure I'd have fun thinking up such a totally new concept from scratch. Cheers! On 8/10/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree that we need more sf games, but I'm afraid I disagree that modifying existing fiction is intrinsically a good idea. For instance, if I was playing a game in which you were captain cook of the star ship endeaver, exploring planets on behalf of the union of confederated worlds, encountering races such as the war like Kringor and the cunning rymans, it would just feel like a cheap copy to me, and indeed the similarity to existing material would make it feel unoriginal. Rather, I'd love to see a game that used basic sf concepts, eg, travel through hyper space, alien races etc, to tell a new story, and give us something to explore that we haven't seen before. For instance, in startrek the federation is sort of the goodie two shoes of the galaxy, what would happen if the federation were a bit more like a real human country, ie, mostly out for their own interests. While Babylon 5 explored this idea, babylon 5 also had humans as one of the five or so major powers, well what would happen if humans weren't! a major power, but comparatively miner in scale, perhaps being employed as mercenaries or pawns in alien wars. Also, where do humans get! the technology able to fly through space, perhaps it's alien in origin to begin with. The heechee novels by fredrich pohl (or at least the first two), for instance imagine humanity discovering an asteroid full of alien ships, but nobody has any idea how to fly them so it's just a case of set the preset controls and see where you end up. Perhaps near some valuable alien tech or astronomical data that could make you rich, or perhaps too close to a neutron star! Same goes for planet exploring really, indeed one of the things that always confused me a bit in startrek was the way that so
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Ben, Sorry, to hear that. Castaways is actually a very decent game once you know how to play it, and to be honest I never thought much documentation was needed. To give you an example you said the game kept giving you the you can't build hear error which means you are trying to build on rocky ground or on a forest or something. The obvious solution to that problem is to find a clear patch of ground where you can build a building or create a farm. I would have thought that would be just common sense. :D Cheers! On 8/10/12, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I hate to disagree with you on this point dark: castaways grabbed my intention, but for all the wrong reasons: it just didn't feel right at all, and whenever I tried to build anything it was like you can't build here I just got so sick of the idea that I threw it out with the rest of the virtual trash :d if only the readme was easy to understand for that game... :d --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
hi tom. Actually I might take you up on that once my thesis in finished, though sinse I'm thirty soon myself hopefully I won't lose all my! mad ideas :d. Actually I did have an sf plot for a game and setting in mind, but I'll discuss that with you off list as and when I have time to write a full synopses. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, Well, if you ever want to join forces on a RPG project let me know. Although, I use to do a lot of creative writing in my younger years all the good ideas seem to have vanished once I hit 30 or so. So if you want to be the brains I can certainly be the programmer. :D Cheers! On 8/10/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree with all of this, and though I never got to play those dos text adventures back in the 90's, mostly simply because I didn't know such things existed for pc computers (a pc was for working on after all), I have played several sinse, in fact as you know at the moment I'm beta testing Eamon deluxe, and some of the adventures produced for that platform are really exceptional, especially because Eamon has so few verbs to use, simply get glass and drink glass when you want to drink the water will do. the only issue with eamon at the moment, is that though the graphical version will! be multiplatform, because dosbox and screen readers won't cooperate, the only way of running it is through the windows console, which won't work on 64 bit windows. I know Frank is trying to find a way around this, but nothing has come up as yet. As you know I've largely given up on playing if these days sinse the puzzles and such just got too frustrating when I want to continue with the story. I actually very much want to write an text rpg of some sort myself, though whether that would mean learning python, bgt or some other language, or just using the eamon dungeon designer and learning enough basic to add what specials I want I'm not sure. I do have an rpg and complete combat system in mind in my brain, it's just a case of finding the best avinue to make it work when i have time. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. Lol does this mean we'll finally get a cross between elite and sivelisation? Now that makes the mind boggle doesn't it! oh the thought of that! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 10 August 2012 12:17 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Dark, Well, if you ever want to join forces on a RPG project let me know. Although, I use to do a lot of creative writing in my younger years all the good ideas seem to have vanished once I hit 30 or so. So if you want to be the brains I can certainly be the programmer. :D Cheers! On 8/10/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree with all of this, and though I never got to play those dos text adventures back in the 90's, mostly simply because I didn't know such things existed for pc computers (a pc was for working on after all), I have played several sinse, in fact as you know at the moment I'm beta testing Eamon deluxe, and some of the adventures produced for that platform are really exceptional, especially because Eamon has so few verbs to use, simply get glass and drink glass when you want to drink the water will do. the only issue with eamon at the moment, is that though the graphical version will! be multiplatform, because dosbox and screen readers won't cooperate, the only way of running it is through the windows console, which won't work on 64 bit windows. I know Frank is trying to find a way around this, but nothing has come up as yet. As you know I've largely given up on playing if these days sinse the puzzles and such just got too frustrating when I want to continue with the story. I actually very much want to write an text rpg of some sort myself, though whether that would mean learning python, bgt or some other language, or just using the eamon dungeon designer and learning enough basic to add what specials I want I'm not sure. I do have an rpg and complete combat system in mind in my brain, it's just a case of finding the best avinue to make it work when i have time. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren, Ah, probably not. Is quite mind boggling when you think about it though. :D Cheers! On 8/10/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom. Lol does this mean we'll finally get a cross between elite and sivelisation? Now that makes the mind boggle doesn't it! oh the thought of that! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Sounds fair enough. Heaven knows I could use an extra person to help me develop ideas for a great space exploration adventure. Its not that I'm out of ideas precisely but that I've gotten set in my ways. Over the years I've been heavily influenced by other people's ideas and its hard to separate that from my own ideas. What I mean by that is I'm a child of the 70's and 80's. I was around when Star Wars was introduced to the public, I became a huge fan of that particular science fiction storyline, and it has become a major influence in my life. I've read books, collected action figures, watched the movies, and now its a part of my life. At the same time I was around when Star Trek made its major come back. When the show was canceled in 1969 everyone pretty much assumed that it would fade away, be forgotten, and never be heard of again. Throughout the 70's though a strange thing happened. As Star Trek went through reruns it became more popular in syndication than during its original 1966 to 1969 run. Inspired by this serge of new viewership Paramount came out with Star Trek the Motion picture, and the other sequels. Eventually, Paramount would go on to create three new series: Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, and Enterprise which were more popular than the original show that started it all. Bottom line, you can pick any classic SF author from the 40's, 50's, and even the 60's and they all could think out of the box. There was no extremely popular science fiction movies or weekly television series to influence their writing and compare their work to. In fact, all of the early science fiction movies like War of the Worlds, the Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, the Blob, etc were given B movie status. No producer or film studio was going to go out on a limb to make a big budget film dealing with aliens, UFOs, and space travel. Big budget SF really didn't come into its own until movies like Star Wars put science fiction on the map for the average person. The end result of all this is growing up my primary sources of science fiction were Buck Rodjers, Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Lost in Space, the Invaders, and V.That's not such a bad thing per say, but certain things like Star Trek have both inspired my imagination and dulled it at the same time. To give you an example of what I mean I'll take you back to a high school class assignment. My teacher posted several pictures on the board and we were suppose to pick one and write a story about it. As it happened one of the pictures was a spaceship, and I naturally picked that one. Now, I obviously wasn't allowed to write a story about Buck Rodjers, Star Trek, Star Wars, or any other well known sci-fi series. I remember spending a couple of days struggling to think of something original.In the end I couldn't do it. What I ended up with is a Star Trek wannabe with some Star Wars references thrown in for good measure. For example, instead of the Star Trek communicator I decided to borrow the Star Wars comlink for my crew. Instead of carrying phasers my crew were carrying around hand blasters. Instead of ship phasers I think the ship had ion cannons. Like where have wee seen this technology before? Of course that was Star Wars contribution to the mix. Warp drive, transporters, tricorders, and several other things were from Star Trek. The Cydonians was an obvious reference to the Cylons from Battlestar Galactica. On and on I could go. I think I probably lifted every good idea anyone ever had from some sci-fi series or another. I didn't invent or create anything on my own. It took me several years before I realized why I disliked the story so much. When I got into college and took a creative writing course the instructor taught us how to outline our thoughts, flesh out ideas, and give them substance before we sat down and wrote any kind of story. He taught us how to filter out ideas that were used by someone else and either improve it or replaceit with something more unique. As it happened that course did improve both my writing and my next attempt at a science fiction story was much better. It was about this time when I realized exactly why I didn't like my earlier attempts at a science fiction story. First, they were not well thought out. I was just writing by the seat of my pants, and I threw things together as I went. Second, when I couldn't think up some new technology on the spot I borrowed some idea from another SF series and hoped I wouldn't get caught. Finally, when I turned in the final draft of my story I knew it was a mosaic collection of stolen ideas and I hadnt written anything original. It was,as I said before, a Star Trek wannabe without being the authentic article. I guess the point of all of this is that while I can sit down, outline a new story, create new and original content, I've always felt like it is substandard work. In my mind I'm trying to compete with Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, I've thought of doing this many times, but as has already ben said the problem is time. I could spend x hours thinking of nifty ways to hide items, to add unlockable content, etc but unfortunately most users will have solved the puzzles in a week reducing the replay value of the game. For instance, all of the Tomb Raider games are good about putting items in very unusual locations.Sometimes items are hidden inside other items such as a med kit hidden inside a saramic jar. Either that or there is a maze of sorts required to locate a certain item such as: climb a stone wall to a ledge, run and jump onto a hire ledge, then jump from that ledge a few feet away, and look in a niche to find an artifact or weapon. That's cool, but how many hours did the programmers spend thinking up and then coding all that extra content into the game just to get that one specific item. Its not beyond an independent developer's abilities to do, but it will take a lot more extra time to think up and then program. The other issue is how to draw a blind gamer's attention to the secret stash. In games like Tomb Raider the niche is visible, but fits into the background so well that a person may miss it a few times when playing. In addition there are niches placed in the game that contain nothing which are a bit of a red haring. I suppose a person could have a hot key that speaks something like, niche above and to the right 3 meters. That might work from an accessibility standpoint, but if you have to tell someone where the niche in the wall is that is as good as giving away half the secret right there. About the only way I can see to kind of hide items is to use pictures or images in various rooms. That is have it mention there is a picture on the wall in each room. Some are nothing more than pictures, but if you press enter on the right one it will swing out revealing a hidden corridor or perhaps a niche in the wall where goodies are stached. This forces the player to try each and every picture in the game to find out if items are hidden behind it. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
hi dark, yeah apart from the gbm there isn't any npc's in that galaxy. mind you having said that, i don't know when i last did an npc mission. i've been more interested in combat and getting goods for my malls. i may do a bit more salvaging though i do rather enjoy that. Sent from my iPad On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:24, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. That is true, I particularly enjoy planet or derelict exploring, though i will confess the fact that there don't seem to be unique npcs or missions throughout a lot of furnice I find rather disappointing, sinse if all a new system is is another place to haul etc with nothing new to do it can feel a little samy. Actually I need to get back to Ce, i've not played in a few days sinse I've been playing alteraeon. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi dark, I think that's why I like ce so much, the playable area is so large comparatively and so many things to find! I love games with large area's to explore or colonise as you see fit depending on the game of course. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:42 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Aprone. I do take the point, however there are two contrary points to considder. Firstly, the need for complexity and size in map design. The swamp map is --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi tom. The time aspect is true, though at the same time (ha ha), I don't really think the full power of audio mazes have been explored as yet, even in a game like shades of doom. After all, in shear size of area to traverse something like tomb rader, metroid, or even Turrican has much larger levels than we've seen in audio thus far, and the larger the area, the more difficult things are to find. The searching problem is a point, but in many of the earlier metroid games all items were actually pretty much in plane site, or in sites and configurations of ledges that implied the player should search more completely, and this technique could work in audio. For instance, in the first level of shades there is that corridor with those tiny 2 x 2 rooms going off it. Suppose, items were hidden in the back walls of some! of those sorts of rooms, leading players to have to check those size rooms when they come to them. Ditto with sound sorces such as radios. Another technique might be some form of scanning, where by you come upon many objects and need to scan them to determine items, though once again, unless this was tied to some sort of configuration in the maze having to scan every single object or picture or bit of background could get annoying, but if the player had just gone through many small passages to find a tiny room with a jar or a statue or whatever, ods are that statue would possibly contain something good, where jars and statues in more obvious places don't. Then of course there's the fact that in such games, expantion items are supposed! to take time to find, so having players check all objects would be a way of increasing the play time of the game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
certainly with the original doom games once you worked out where things were then you new what to do. i still loved it though. Sent from my iPad On 9 Aug 2012, at 07:27, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, I've thought of doing this many times, but as has already ben said the problem is time. I could spend x hours thinking of nifty ways to hide items, to add unlockable content, etc but unfortunately most users will have solved the puzzles in a week reducing the replay value of the game. For instance, all of the Tomb Raider games are good about putting items in very unusual locations.Sometimes items are hidden inside other items such as a med kit hidden inside a saramic jar. Either that or there is a maze of sorts required to locate a certain item such as: climb a stone wall to a ledge, run and jump onto a hire ledge, then jump from that ledge a few feet away, and look in a niche to find an artifact or weapon. That's cool, but how many hours did the programmers spend thinking up and then coding all that extra content into the game just to get that one specific item. Its not beyond an independent developer's abilities to do, but it will take a lot more extra time to think up and then program. The other issue is how to draw a blind gamer's attention to the secret stash. In games like Tomb Raider the niche is visible, but fits into the background so well that a person may miss it a few times when playing. In addition there are niches placed in the game that contain nothing which are a bit of a red haring. I suppose a person could have a hot key that speaks something like, niche above and to the right 3 meters. That might work from an accessibility standpoint, but if you have to tell someone where the niche in the wall is that is as good as giving away half the secret right there. About the only way I can see to kind of hide items is to use pictures or images in various rooms. That is have it mention there is a picture on the wall in each room. Some are nothing more than pictures, but if you press enter on the right one it will swing out revealing a hidden corridor or perhaps a niche in the wall where goodies are stached. This forces the player to try each and every picture in the game to find out if items are hidden behind it. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Well Mal's aren't something that really interested me in the game, a little too economic and usually I can do just as well selling loot on the gbm. My problem with lack of npcs is that different npcs give the locations some sort of meaning. For instance the lady on meltram in Eathan has the missions to get into couria work, while the monks on brandric in uscosia have missions for ip etc, which gives the location a bit more interest than just another generic planet. I'm a little sorry coops hasn't added more npc missions to the game as yet. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games hi dark, yeah apart from the gbm there isn't any npc's in that galaxy. mind you having said that, i don't know when i last did an npc mission. i've been more interested in combat and getting goods for my malls. i may do a bit more salvaging though i do rather enjoy that. Sent from my iPad On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:24, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. That is true, I particularly enjoy planet or derelict exploring, though i will confess the fact that there don't seem to be unique npcs or missions throughout a lot of furnice I find rather disappointing, sinse if all a new system is is another place to haul etc with nothing new to do it can feel a little samy. Actually I need to get back to Ce, i've not played in a few days sinse I've been playing alteraeon. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi dark, I think that's why I like ce so much, the playable area is so large comparatively and so many things to find! I love games with large area's to explore or colonise as you see fit depending on the game of course. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:42 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Aprone. I do take the point, however there are two contrary points to considder. Firstly, the need for complexity and size in map design. The swamp map is --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
dark you just hit on the reason why i played shades once and that was it. once i had gotten to the boss on lvl9 that was it for me really. it was a good game as far as it went but it was very small in comparison to what i am otherwise used to. i haven't played entombed for a while but i do think for an audio game that it's rather big actually. Sent from my iPad On 9 Aug 2012, at 08:20, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. The time aspect is true, though at the same time (ha ha), I don't really think the full power of audio mazes have been explored as yet, even in a game like shades of doom. After all, in shear size of area to traverse something like tomb rader, metroid, or even Turrican has much larger levels than we've seen in audio thus far, and the larger the area, the more difficult things are to find. The searching problem is a point, but in many of the earlier metroid games all items were actually pretty much in plane site, or in sites and configurations of ledges that implied the player should search more completely, and this technique could work in audio. For instance, in the first level of shades there is that corridor with those tiny 2 x 2 rooms going off it. Suppose, items were hidden in the back walls of some! of those sorts of rooms, leading players to have to check those size rooms when they come to them. Ditto with sound sorces such as radios. Another technique might be some form of scanning, where by you come upon many objects and need to scan them to determine items, though once again, unless this was tied to some sort of configuration in the maze having to scan every single object or picture or bit of background could get annoying, but if the player had just gone through many small passages to find a tiny room with a jar or a statue or whatever, ods are that statue would possibly contain something good, where jars and statues in more obvious places don't. Then of course there's the fact that in such games, expantion items are supposed! to take time to find, so having players check all objects would be a way of increasing the play time of the game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
hi dark, i have a feeling that a lot of npc's will come with lvl6 stuff. with lvl6 will come new locations hopefully. i would like to see exploration expanded a bit more whereby you are sent to a location in space and need to map it. i don't mean specifically the expanse but just in general to go map a specific area of space. once it's mapped it's available for all. Sent from my iPad On 9 Aug 2012, at 08:22, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well Mal's aren't something that really interested me in the game, a little too economic and usually I can do just as well selling loot on the gbm. My problem with lack of npcs is that different npcs give the locations some sort of meaning. For instance the lady on meltram in Eathan has the missions to get into couria work, while the monks on brandric in uscosia have missions for ip etc, which gives the location a bit more interest than just another generic planet. I'm a little sorry coops hasn't added more npc missions to the game as yet. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games hi dark, yeah apart from the gbm there isn't any npc's in that galaxy. mind you having said that, i don't know when i last did an npc mission. i've been more interested in combat and getting goods for my malls. i may do a bit more salvaging though i do rather enjoy that. Sent from my iPad On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:24, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. That is true, I particularly enjoy planet or derelict exploring, though i will confess the fact that there don't seem to be unique npcs or missions throughout a lot of furnice I find rather disappointing, sinse if all a new system is is another place to haul etc with nothing new to do it can feel a little samy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren. while I have replayed shades a couple of times for the experience, as indeed I replay several games, i agree about the size. With entombed the mazes are in fact large, but the main problem is that navigating them really doesn't serve any purpose. if Jason had completed some of his original design ideas for the game and added different environments, traps, treasures to find etc the mazes would I think have served more of a point, but as it stands the mazes really don't impact on the entombed game that much, sinse all they really are is breaks betwene each fight. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Interesting thought darren, though I'd be concerned there was enough space to go around betwene all of Ce's many players, though i suppose space is pretty big so there theoretically shouldn't be a limit on the amount you could explore or the number of exlorers there could be. I do agree It would however be really great to do the hole star trek style bouldly going bit in the game, indeed that's one thing I've always fancied about games like miriani and star conquest, just being able to fly around in space and explore, though the pvp aspects there have always really turned me off both. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games hi dark, i have a feeling that a lot of npc's will come with lvl6 stuff. with lvl6 will come new locations hopefully. i would like to see exploration expanded a bit more whereby you are sent to a location in space and need to map it. i don't mean specifically the expanse but just in general to go map a specific area of space. once it's mapped it's available for all. Sent from my iPad On 9 Aug 2012, at 08:22, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well Mal's aren't something that really interested me in the game, a little too economic and usually I can do just as well selling loot on the gbm. My problem with lack of npcs is that different npcs give the locations some sort of meaning. For instance the lady on meltram in Eathan has the missions to get into couria work, while the monks on brandric in uscosia have missions for ip etc, which gives the location a bit more interest than just another generic planet. I'm a little sorry coops hasn't added more npc missions to the game as yet. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games hi dark, yeah apart from the gbm there isn't any npc's in that galaxy. mind you having said that, i don't know when i last did an npc mission. i've been more interested in combat and getting goods for my malls. i may do a bit more salvaging though i do rather enjoy that. Sent from my iPad On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:24, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. That is true, I particularly enjoy planet or derelict exploring, though i will confess the fact that there don't seem to be unique npcs or missions throughout a lot of furnice I find rather disappointing, sinse if all a new system is is another place to haul etc with nothing new to do it can feel a little samy. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi dark, When it comes to entombed I agree. Is Jason still developing it do you know? I haven't heard 1 way or the other to be honest so am just curious to be honest. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 08:57 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. while I have replayed shades a couple of times for the experience, as indeed I replay several games, i agree about the size. With entombed the mazes are in fact large, but the main problem is that navigating them really doesn't serve any purpose. if Jason had completed some of his original design ideas for the game and added different environments, traps, treasures to find etc the mazes would I think have served more of a point, but as it stands the mazes really don't impact on the entombed game that much, sinse all they really are is breaks betwene each fight. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi darren. last I heard he wanted to work on a more expanded sequal,sinse he felt that it would be easier starting from scratch than trying to add all the requested features and balancing to the main game. Hopefully we'll see something like this from him in the future. beware the grue1 dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi dark, When it comes to entombed I agree. Is Jason still developing it do you know? I haven't heard 1 way or the other to be honest so am just curious to be honest. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 08:57 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. while I have replayed shades a couple of times for the experience, as indeed I replay several games, i agree about the size. With entombed the mazes are in fact large, but the main problem is that navigating them really doesn't serve any purpose. if Jason had completed some of his original design ideas for the game and added different environments, traps, treasures to find etc the mazes would I think have served more of a point, but as it stands the mazes really don't impact on the entombed game that much, sinse all they really are is breaks betwene each fight. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I guess that makes more sense than trying to fix the currant game. Learn from experience I guess. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 09:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi darren. last I heard he wanted to work on a more expanded sequal,sinse he felt that it would be easier starting from scratch than trying to add all the requested features and balancing to the main game. Hopefully we'll see something like this from him in the future. beware the grue1 dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi dark, When it comes to entombed I agree. Is Jason still developing it do you know? I haven't heard 1 way or the other to be honest so am just curious to be honest. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 08:57 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. while I have replayed shades a couple of times for the experience, as indeed I replay several games, i agree about the size. With entombed the mazes are in fact large, but the main problem is that navigating them really doesn't serve any purpose. if Jason had completed some of his original design ideas for the game and added different environments, traps, treasures to find etc the mazes would I think have served more of a point, but as it stands the mazes really don't impact on the entombed game that much, sinse all they really are is breaks betwene each fight. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Well this is it when it comes to mechs isn't it, firstly as you say it is voluntary and secondly well it is rather fun to say the least. I think unmoderated pvp is pointless it doesn't allow for progression in my opinion. I would love a space game either browser or mud that's so vast in size that it would take a good while for you to be able to find anybody else. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 10:42 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] FW: Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games I rest my case. it actually irritates me, sinse if there was a none pvp option I'd love to try miriani for the exploring, fighting aliens , space flight and such, but I don't want to be in a game where all my hard work can be destroyed just because some ultra powerfull player sees me and is having a bad day. Sinse I'm! not interested in attacking others, I don't see why they should be allowed to ruin my game by attacking me. Sadly, this seems to go for all the space muds, which is again why core exiles with it's zero pvp is fantastic, (I don't really count mech combat, sinse it's more of a sport or a minigame and has no affect on anything else, plus is entirely voluntary anyway). Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
They're either out there and so obscure that not many people have found them, or in development but the project is so large as to take a lot of time or they don't exist yet. Yeah I loved elite and games like it. I've been well and truly spoiled by it I think. Which is why a lot of the time I'm not that content with the sorts of blind friendly games that there are out there. Am for ever looking around to see what's around game wise but to be honest I keep coming back to core exiles. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 11:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren. I've actually never played elite, far too much text and too spacially complex, but I'd love to, indeed I'd really appreciate a complex space game in audio. i can actually enjoy audio games like shades for their atmosphere,even if the exploration isn't what I'd desire, indeed it was the atmosphere of shades that impressed me first off and got me interested in audio games, however I do agree larger, more complex games are needed, it's just a shame they're also harder to create. though by the same tocan we do have a lot of more extensive games now than when I started in accessible games, thanks to people like Jason, Phil and Aprone, I'd love for instance to see Aprone do a second, more complex castaways as that is by far the best stratogy game I've ever played, and absolutely the sort of single player, reactive interesting experience I'd like to see more of. As to text, well one of the problems is that tthe if community, who you'd expect to be the first people to work on text games, actually have an avertion to anything rpg like or with mechanics, much less anything open ended and strategical. I am hopefull though of what will be created for the portable device markit, sinse gamebooks and other text games are on the up at the moment. also, it's worth remembering that as far as specific space games go, smugglers 5 will be coming out this year, and niels has promised more gamebook like, open ended gameplay and to avoid the rather dragging middle section that made s4 so problematic. I'll also add that while Ce is great, I'm quite impressed with alter in it's exploration system and attention to single players and the general experience, rather than jkust multiplaying. The only thing that alter lacks for me are other activities beside go and kill stuff, or at least refignments such as hunting or randomly generated quests, but maybe Dentin will add such things in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games They're either out there and so obscure that not many people have found them, or in development but the project is so large as to take a lot of time or they don't exist yet. Yeah I loved elite and games like it. I've been well and truly spoiled by it I think. Which is why a lot of the time I'm not that content with the sorts of blind friendly games that there are out there. Am for ever looking around to see what's around game wise but to be honest I keep coming back to core exiles. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 11:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
There's going to be a smugglers 5? What do you know about it? I liked smugglers for what it was but I got bored with it at the same time because beyond the storyline there wasn't really anything else to do. No form of manufacturing, real trading etc that sort of thing. Yes we are in need of some far bigger games, I'd love to see castaways for example on a much larger scale. A far bigger map and with more to do as in resource building more defending etc. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 13:45 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. I've actually never played elite, far too much text and too spacially complex, but I'd love to, indeed I'd really appreciate a complex space game in audio. i can actually enjoy audio games like shades for their atmosphere,even if the exploration isn't what I'd desire, indeed it was the atmosphere of shades that impressed me first off and got me interested in audio games, however I do agree larger, more complex games are needed, it's just a shame they're also harder to create. though by the same tocan we do have a lot of more extensive games now than when I started in accessible games, thanks to people like Jason, Phil and Aprone, I'd love for instance to see Aprone do a second, more complex castaways as that is by far the best stratogy game I've ever played, and absolutely the sort of single player, reactive interesting experience I'd like to see more of. As to text, well one of the problems is that tthe if community, who you'd expect to be the first people to work on text games, actually have an avertion to anything rpg like or with mechanics, much less anything open ended and strategical. I am hopefull though of what will be created for the portable device markit, sinse gamebooks and other text games are on the up at the moment. also, it's worth remembering that as far as specific space games go, smugglers 5 will be coming out this year, and niels has promised more gamebook like, open ended gameplay and to avoid the rather dragging middle section that made s4 so problematic. I'll also add that while Ce is great, I'm quite impressed with alter in it's exploration system and attention to single players and the general experience, rather than jkust multiplaying. The only thing that alter lacks for me are other activities beside go and kill stuff, or at least refignments such as hunting or randomly generated quests, but maybe Dentin will add such things in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games They're either out there and so obscure that not many people have found them, or in development but the project is so large as to take a lot of time or they don't exist yet. Yeah I loved elite and games like it. I've been well and truly spoiled by it I think. Which is why a lot of the time I'm not that content with the sorts of blind friendly games that there are out there. Am for ever looking around to see what's around game wise but to be honest I keep coming back to core exiles. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 11:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren. Well I'd love to see castaways expanded too, it'd be great if you could go from just a small hand full of survivers to a complete civilzation where you could build cities, trade etc as you said. I don't know much about s5, only what niels once siad in a mail to me, which was that it'd be a larger game, more open ended with more gamebook like quests on each planet, but other than that I'm not sure. It's also going to be fully accessible, unliek empires and dungeons 2 (a shame he never got the financial support from the community to make that one accessible, sinse that sounded fantstic, a mix of gamebooks and resource management stratogy. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games There's going to be a smugglers 5? What do you know about it? I liked smugglers for what it was but I got bored with it at the same time because beyond the storyline there wasn't really anything else to do. No form of manufacturing, real trading etc that sort of thing. Yes we are in need of some far bigger games, I'd love to see castaways for example on a much larger scale. A far bigger map and with more to do as in resource building more defending etc. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 13:45 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. I've actually never played elite, far too much text and too spacially complex, but I'd love to, indeed I'd really appreciate a complex space game in audio. i can actually enjoy audio games like shades for their atmosphere,even if the exploration isn't what I'd desire, indeed it was the atmosphere of shades that impressed me first off and got me interested in audio games, however I do agree larger, more complex games are needed, it's just a shame they're also harder to create. though by the same tocan we do have a lot of more extensive games now than when I started in accessible games, thanks to people like Jason, Phil and Aprone, I'd love for instance to see Aprone do a second, more complex castaways as that is by far the best stratogy game I've ever played, and absolutely the sort of single player, reactive interesting experience I'd like to see more of. As to text, well one of the problems is that tthe if community, who you'd expect to be the first people to work on text games, actually have an avertion to anything rpg like or with mechanics, much less anything open ended and strategical. I am hopefull though of what will be created for the portable device markit, sinse gamebooks and other text games are on the up at the moment. also, it's worth remembering that as far as specific space games go, smugglers 5 will be coming out this year, and niels has promised more gamebook like, open ended gameplay and to avoid the rather dragging middle section that made s4 so problematic. I'll also add that while Ce is great, I'm quite impressed with alter in it's exploration system and attention to single players and the general experience, rather than jkust multiplaying. The only thing that alter lacks for me are other activities beside go and kill stuff, or at least refignments such as hunting or randomly generated quests, but maybe Dentin will add such things in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games They're either out there and so obscure that not many people have found them, or in development but the project is so large as to take a lot of time or they don't exist yet. Yeah I loved elite and games like it. I've been well and truly spoiled by it I think. Which is why a lot of the time I'm not that content with the sorts of blind friendly games that there are out there. Am for ever looking around to see what's around game wise but to be honest I keep coming back to core exiles. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 11:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Larger so more planets etc to explore? Wonder if we'll be able to land on the planets and do things planet side? We really do need an elite type game that's for sure. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 14:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. Well I'd love to see castaways expanded too, it'd be great if you could go from just a small hand full of survivers to a complete civilzation where you could build cities, trade etc as you said. I don't know much about s5, only what niels once siad in a mail to me, which was that it'd be a larger game, more open ended with more gamebook like quests on each planet, but other than that I'm not sure. It's also going to be fully accessible, unliek empires and dungeons 2 (a shame he never got the financial support from the community to make that one accessible, sinse that sounded fantstic, a mix of gamebooks and resource management stratogy. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games There's going to be a smugglers 5? What do you know about it? I liked smugglers for what it was but I got bored with it at the same time because beyond the storyline there wasn't really anything else to do. No form of manufacturing, real trading etc that sort of thing. Yes we are in need of some far bigger games, I'd love to see castaways for example on a much larger scale. A far bigger map and with more to do as in resource building more defending etc. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 13:45 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Darren. I've actually never played elite, far too much text and too spacially complex, but I'd love to, indeed I'd really appreciate a complex space game in audio. i can actually enjoy audio games like shades for their atmosphere,even if the exploration isn't what I'd desire, indeed it was the atmosphere of shades that impressed me first off and got me interested in audio games, however I do agree larger, more complex games are needed, it's just a shame they're also harder to create. though by the same tocan we do have a lot of more extensive games now than when I started in accessible games, thanks to people like Jason, Phil and Aprone, I'd love for instance to see Aprone do a second, more complex castaways as that is by far the best stratogy game I've ever played, and absolutely the sort of single player, reactive interesting experience I'd like to see more of. As to text, well one of the problems is that tthe if community, who you'd expect to be the first people to work on text games, actually have an avertion to anything rpg like or with mechanics, much less anything open ended and strategical. I am hopefull though of what will be created for the portable device markit, sinse gamebooks and other text games are on the up at the moment. also, it's worth remembering that as far as specific space games go, smugglers 5 will be coming out this year, and niels has promised more gamebook like, open ended gameplay and to avoid the rather dragging middle section that made s4 so problematic. I'll also add that while Ce is great, I'm quite impressed with alter in it's exploration system and attention to single players and the general experience, rather than jkust multiplaying. The only thing that alter lacks for me are other activities beside go and kill stuff, or at least refignments such as hunting or randomly generated quests, but maybe Dentin will add such things in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games They're either out there and so obscure that not many people have found them, or in development but the project is so large as to take a lot of time or they don't exist yet. Yeah I loved elite and games like it. I've been well and truly spoiled by it I think. Which is why a lot of the time I'm not that content with the sorts of blind friendly games that there are out there. Am for ever looking around to see what's around game wise but to be honest I keep coming back to core exiles. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 09 August 2012 11:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, The point about the IF community is actually one reason why after Mysteries of the Ancients and Raceway are finished I want to take some time off of audio games and focus on more traditional text based games for a while. In the early to mid 90's I was heavily into Dos text adventures, and to be honest many of them had more depth than your average audio game. There really aren't any accessible games on par with Elite in entertainment value, and that is one game I'd love to see updated and released for a modern PC. While I'm at it I can create a version that will run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and other platforms as well. Which, of course, would increase its user base in the process. The other reason why I'd be interested in updating and rewriting some of my favorite text adventures is the fact that we have better technology now than we did then. Back in the 90's if you were playing a text game the most you would get in terms of sound is a few electronic sounds generated and played out the PC speaker. Now, days we can drop in an audio library like FMOD Ex, OpenAL,XAudio2, whatever and play music, background ambiance, as well as realistic sound effects to blend classic text adventure with modern audio game for the best of both worlds. For example, I had a couple of Indiana Jones text adventures for Dos. Imagine taking that game and adding in the original theme music, the crack of Indy's bull whip, the sound of a fist fight as Indy punches out a few Natzis, and things like that. I'd be taking a classic text adventure and adding in some audio to make it more like an audio game but with the classic game play and accessibility of the text game. Of course, writing a full blown roll playing game isn't beyond consideration either. In fact, that is something I'd love to do. I haven't decided on a specific story, but its certainly under consideration. One major reason for that is the one you mentioned. The IF community have written and released a number of text adventures, but are apposed to writing any kind of roll playing game with stats, skill checks, and so on. Instead author's like Emily Short rely on puzzle based play that I find absolutely frustrating at times. Especially, when it is a case of guess the verb. I'd rather have more exploration, perhaps combat, rather than spend an hour trying to figure out some obscure puzzle or phrase. The other thing IF games sometimes do that drives me slightly nuts is the author expects you to break a task down into several steps. Let's say you want to get a glass of water. You first need to take glass, turn on the tap, fill glass, turn off tap, drink water.While it makes logical sense I personally see no need to break it down into that many steps. However, as you know some tasks aren't quite that obvious or simple and it becomes dang frustrating figuring out what the game expects you to do next. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. I've actually never played elite, far too much text and too spacially complex, but I'd love to, indeed I'd really appreciate a complex space game in audio. i can actually enjoy audio games like shades for their atmosphere,even if the exploration isn't what I'd desire, indeed it was the atmosphere of shades that impressed me first off and got me interested in audio games, however I do agree larger, more complex games are needed, it's just a shame they're also harder to create. though by the same tocan we do have a lot of more extensive games now than when I started in accessible games, thanks to people like Jason, Phil and Aprone, I'd love for instance to see Aprone do a second, more complex castaways as that is by far the best stratogy game I've ever played, and absolutely the sort of single player, reactive interesting experience I'd like to see more of. As to text, well one of the problems is that tthe if community, who you'd expect to be the first people to work on text games, actually have an avertion to anything rpg like or with mechanics, much less anything open ended and strategical. I am hopefull though of what will be created for the portable device markit, sinse gamebooks and other text games are on the up at the moment. also, it's worth remembering that as far as specific space games go, smugglers 5 will be coming out this year, and niels has promised more gamebook like, open ended gameplay and to avoid the rather dragging middle section that made s4 so problematic. I'll also add that while Ce is great, I'm quite impressed with alter in it's exploration system and attention to single players and the general experience, rather than jkust multiplaying. The only thing that alter lacks for me are other activities beside go and kill stuff, or at least refignments such as hunting or randomly generated quests, but maybe Dentin will add such things in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Oh, definitely. There is a lot more that can be done with Castaways than has already been developed. As you say I could see the game being expanded to be more like Civilization where you build cities, research and develop better technology, and end up having wars or alliances with other civilizations etc. I'm a bit saddened that Swamp has become as popular as it has as I'd love to see more updates to Castaways. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Darren. Well I'd love to see castaways expanded too, it'd be great if you could go from just a small hand full of survivers to a complete civilzation where you could build cities, trade etc as you said. I don't know much about s5, only what niels once siad in a mail to me, which was that it'd be a larger game, more open ended with more gamebook like quests on each planet, but other than that I'm not sure. It's also going to be fully accessible, unliek empires and dungeons 2 (a shame he never got the financial support from the community to make that one accessible, sinse that sounded fantstic, a mix of gamebooks and resource management stratogy. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, So true. We are definitely lacking in good science fiction text adventures as well as roll playing games. As a huge fan of science fiction I'd love to see a text based roll playing game with hundreds of planets, space stations, aliens, and high tech gadgets to explore. That would totally rock. The heck of it is if someone doesn't mind using copyrighted materials there are plenty of popular series to choose from including: Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Gate, etc just for starts. If someone doesn't want to step on any toes by using copyrighted materials its not that hard to take a concept like Star Trek and modify it for someone's purposes. I've done it myself for a number of creative writing courses, and all it takes is a bit of imagination. Instead of the United Federation of Planets a person could call it the United Republic of Planets or Republic for short. Instead of warp drive a person could call it something generic like star drive. Instead of transporters a person could call them teleporters which is so generic no one can claim copyright of the idea. On and on I could go. Its really not that difficult to modify an existing idea and make it work for a decent roll playing game, but as yet no one has stepped up to the plate and worked on such a game. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: yep darren that would rock, though to be absolutely honest multiplayer just doesn't interest me in games that much. I will say the ce community are a great bunch of people and I do make the most out of trading, ndeed they're probably the nicest community I've seen in a multiplayer game, which is probably a direct result of Ce attracting players who aren't! interested in pvp. All that being said, really the only reason I play multiplayer games like Ce or muds like alter is for what I can get out of them single player, indeed I suspect that if I had sufficient vision I'd be playing nothing but! main stream single player games like diablow or the star trek stratogy games, and wouldn't bother with multiplayer at all. it's actually a shame nobody has yet developed a large and complete enough text rpg system to offer open ended space exploration, or come to that, a real space flight action adventure game with proper navigation and freedom of control similar to the old classic elite. Then again even in the fantasy setting, text rpgs are still pretty thin on the ground. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Dark, Good point. Shades of doom uses a 20 by 20 grid, and I think it takes 10 steps to move one unit on the grid. Therefore giving you the total of 200 steps in any direction. That's actually quite small compared to a mainstream game. Now,imagine if the grid were expanded to 100 units. That would give you 1,000 steps in any direction, and give you five times the space to explore. If David Greenwood ever wanted to expand the game he certainly could do so. However, regarding expansion items a lot of mainstream games do have Easter eggs, and we are unfortunately lacking in that department. Usually its something small like if you unlock a certain door, double back to the beginning of the level, you will be able to play a bonus level that is normally unavailable when you try and access that door initially. Those kinds of expansions are certainly doable but would have to be added in after the majority of the game is complete I think. For example, let's take MOTA. Right now I'm struggling just to complete 12 levels of standard game play let alone any bonus content or extras. That's fine. I can complete it as is, and then in a year or so go back in and add bonus content, extra levels, that are unlocked by doing certain things in the game. In a case like that all I have to do is work on extra content rather than building the entire game from scratch after I have the basic game written and debugged to start with. Cheers! On 8/9/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. The time aspect is true, though at the same time (ha ha), I don't really think the full power of audio mazes have been explored as yet, even in a game like shades of doom. After all, in shear size of area to traverse something like tomb rader, metroid, or even Turrican has much larger levels than we've seen in audio thus far, and the larger the area, the more difficult things are to find. The searching problem is a point, but in many of the earlier metroid games all items were actually pretty much in plane site, or in sites and configurations of ledges that implied the player should search more completely, and this technique could work in audio. For instance, in the first level of shades there is that corridor with those tiny 2 x 2 rooms going off it. Suppose, items were hidden in the back walls of some! of those sorts of rooms, leading players to have to check those size rooms when they come to them. Ditto with sound sorces such as radios. Another technique might be some form of scanning, where by you come upon many objects and need to scan them to determine items, though once again, unless this was tied to some sort of configuration in the maze having to scan every single object or picture or bit of background could get annoying, but if the player had just gone through many small passages to find a tiny room with a jar or a statue or whatever, ods are that statue would possibly contain something good, where jars and statues in more obvious places don't. Then of course there's the fact that in such games, expantion items are supposed! to take time to find, so having players check all objects would be a way of increasing the play time of the game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Its just a real shame dark, that none of the polysoft titles ever worked truly on either of my systems, and IMO I just couldn't get into sarah... no idea what it is, but just something about the game... I'd personally say that treasure hunt is the closest in a sense of playable and lovable games for people like myself who love a good gun battle as well as picking stuff up, as the items that you need are in relatively fixed places, the doors and stuff definitely are. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 16:37 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5186 - Release Date: 08/08/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
The only real problem with this design is the relatively short amount of time it takes players to find everything, and then the game loses its re playability. Lets, for example, pretend Swamp was filled with these sorts of keys which were specifically placed and would unlock other specific areas. If I were to spend 30 hours linking together 50 items with locations, naming them, placing them, and actually designing the new map terrain, I can bet that within a few days 300 players would have already completed the entire thing. These players would be waiting on me to add more. For every hour I spent adding in new items, I would only be occupying the players for maybe 3 or 4. When we use random items that don't unlock new map content, the 50 items can be created in an hour instead of 30. The same items can also then be found and re-found over and over to keep players entertained. It isn't as much fun, there is no doubt about that, but it's an unfortunate compromise in the battle between developer effort verses hours of player enjoyment. i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi ben. Who are polysoft? If you mean bavisoft, those were not really the sort of thing I was thinking, sinse those were primarily just straight out adventure games (and rather simple ones at that). Treasurehunt might have some of that sort of gameplay in it's locks and keys and the use of weapons to blast walls etc, but personally I always found the audio 3rd person it used slightly offputting, sinse it's pretty hard to dodge attacks or getting spotted, not to mention the lack of different types of enemies. But you are probably right that treasurehunt was on the way there too. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Its just a real shame dark, that none of the polysoft titles ever worked truly on either of my systems, and IMO I just couldn't get into sarah... no idea what it is, but just something about the game... I'd personally say that treasure hunt is the closest in a sense of playable and lovable games for people like myself who love a good gun battle as well as picking stuff up, as the items that you need are in relatively fixed places, the doors and stuff definitely are. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 16:37 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil, Tom, Aprone, and other of our devs could considder as a design point, sinse if the game has many items and a complex map structure, exploration and gradual acquisition of both key items and items providing extra power can actually be as much if not more fun than randomly occurring ones. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Aprone. I do take the point, however there are two contrary points to considder. Firstly, the need for complexity and size in map design. The swamp map is pretty large, but it's till possible to go from one end to the other relatively easily. It's also largely open, being obviously the map of a town. The sort of map I was considdering was far more the sort of thing found in a maze context, with lots of side turnings, branches etc. Anyone who's played a relatively complex if title will be familiar with this sort of setup, and when in audio the difficulty goes up even more. Also, bare in mind that I wasn't talking about a few! items. Each metroid game featured at least 100 items to collect, often involving complex puzzles or abstruse locations to find. while I realize lacking the resources and man power of nintendo is a contributing factor, this is something that has been managed in some indi games despite this, such as the roguelike adom, which also mixed a massive amount of random elements. it's just not something that has yet really occurred in an audio game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
I meant the people who developed airic and such, I probably got the name wrong. Lol. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:36 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi ben. Who are polysoft? If you mean bavisoft, those were not really the sort of thing I was thinking, sinse those were primarily just straight out adventure games (and rather simple ones at that). Treasurehunt might have some of that sort of gameplay in it's locks and keys and the use of weapons to blast walls etc, but personally I always found the audio 3rd person it used slightly offputting, sinse it's pretty hard to dodge attacks or getting spotted, not to mention the lack of different types of enemies. But you are probably right that treasurehunt was on the way there too. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Its just a real shame dark, that none of the polysoft titles ever worked truly on either of my systems, and IMO I just couldn't get into sarah... no idea what it is, but just something about the game... I'd personally say that treasure hunt is the closest in a sense of playable and lovable games for people like myself who love a good gun battle as well as picking stuff up, as the items that you need are in relatively fixed places, the doors and stuff definitely are. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 16:37 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games i was just watching a lets play of metroid Zero mission, the gameboy advanced remake of the original metroid game, when it occurred to me that there are a couple of very simple additions that audio games could cinclude which would greatly enhance gameplay, additions that made games like zelda and the metroid series famous. Ignoring the 2D aspect (which we've discussed before), there is the basic formular of such games, a formular that would translate just as well into for instance an fps game. Your in a large, freely explorable maze full of monsters. you have one infinitely useable main weapon (the metroid gun or Link's sword in the Zelda games), which starts off comparatively weak. As you progress through the maze you will come to areas which you cannot pass without a given item, and items which you can use to pass certain areas, often requiring you to take note of areas you've passed and go back. oh, so that special gun upgrade blows up brick walls, now where did I pass a brick wall before? So collecting these key items and using them to expand the parts of the maze you can get to forms the bulk of the game, especially sinse of course there are large and nasty boss monster to be killed along the way. In addition to your main weapon, You also have some limited use more powerfull items, and scattered around the maze are expantion packs for those items, items that let you hold more energy when you start, items that let you have more amo for limited use items etc. These expantions are scattered around the maze, often in far out of the way places requiring lots of exploring to find, and it's fully expected that a player won't find all of them on their first run through the game. All of these items are in fixed places rather than appearing at random, sinse it is the players' ability to systematically explore the maze, perhaps passing puzzles along the way that will determine how many expantion items she/he collects, perhaps with a reward for collecting all of them, making this a game where you have to try, and learn, and progress, rather than wait to be randomly lucky with a monster drop for your items. An engine like that employed in shades of doom could well include these sorts of gameplay elements, indeed there's no reason why they haven't been used in an audio game thus far, accept that from what I can gather the fps titles we've had have tended to be based on randomly occurring items and fast action, rather than acquiring more and more items and making your character more powerful as time passes, which is a shame, sinse the exploration formular is one which is hugely rewarding to play. the only audio games I think that have come close to this sort of formular are Airic the clerric (though I don't think Airik had any none usefull items or expantions to collect that weren't really part of the progression of the game), sarah, (though there you didn't really grow more powerfull rather than complete puzzles), and I believe kurt wolf. But perhaps this is something Phil
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi dark, I think that's why I like ce so much, the playable area is so large comparatively and so many things to find! I love games with large area's to explore or colonise as you see fit depending on the game of course. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:42 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Aprone. I do take the point, however there are two contrary points to considder. Firstly, the need for complexity and size in map design. The swamp map is pretty large, but it's till possible to go from one end to the other relatively easily. It's also largely open, being obviously the map of a town. The sort of map I was considdering was far more the sort of thing found in a maze context, with lots of side turnings, branches etc. Anyone who's played a relatively complex if title will be familiar with this sort of setup, and when in audio the difficulty goes up even more. Also, bare in mind that I wasn't talking about a few! items. Each metroid game featured at least 100 items to collect, often involving complex puzzles or abstruse locations to find. while I realize lacking the resources and man power of nintendo is a contributing factor, this is something that has been managed in some indi games despite this, such as the roguelike adom, which also mixed a massive amount of random elements. it's just not something that has yet really occurred in an audio game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Oh, I see what you mean. Well they were originally paulosoft so I can see where you got the idea from, though the name has now been changed to breakerbox games. beware the grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games
Hi Darren. That is true, I particularly enjoy planet or derelict exploring, though i will confess the fact that there don't seem to be unique npcs or missions throughout a lot of furnice I find rather disappointing, sinse if all a new system is is another place to haul etc with nothing new to do it can feel a little samy. Actually I need to get back to Ce, i've not played in a few days sinse I've been playing alteraeon. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi dark, I think that's why I like ce so much, the playable area is so large comparatively and so many things to find! I love games with large area's to explore or colonise as you see fit depending on the game of course. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:42 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mapping, item collecting and puzzles in games Hi Aprone. I do take the point, however there are two contrary points to considder. Firstly, the need for complexity and size in map design. The swamp map is pretty large, but it's till possible to go from one end to the other relatively easily. It's also largely open, being obviously the map of a town. The sort of map I was considdering was far more the sort of thing found in a maze context, with lots of side turnings, branches etc. Anyone who's played a relatively complex if title will be familiar with this sort of setup, and when in audio the difficulty goes up even more. Also, bare in mind that I wasn't talking about a few! items. Each metroid game featured at least 100 items to collect, often involving complex puzzles or abstruse locations to find. while I realize lacking the resources and man power of nintendo is a contributing factor, this is something that has been managed in some indi games despite this, such as the roguelike adom, which also mixed a massive amount of random elements. it's just not something that has yet really occurred in an audio game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
