Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Thom, I said i was willing to be proved wrong. Thanks for the info! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 08 August 2012 02:16 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays Hi Ben, On the contrary you are not correct. The Odyssey is one of two epic poems believed to be written by Homer. According to Wikipedia it was written during the 8th century B.C. Here is the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey if you want more facts about the Odyssey. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: Actually dark your wrong, from what I can remember as to who wrote the odisy or the audesy as we would call it. I believe it was Homer who wrote the Iliad, in fact I know so, and I think Virgil worte the Odisy as well as the Aeneid. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I don't mind. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5183 - Release Date: 08/07/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Alex. There was an oxford professor of theology I know of, who was i believe called John stewart. I can't recall the name of the engineer, but I know where to find it, he worked in the 19th century and designed several bridges and supporting structures. As to death, why do you think death means not existing? There is no really clear evidence one way or another, and indeed the buhdist view is that a mind cannot stop a train of thought so the mind must be immortal, while orrigan believed that consciousness would become one with God. I'm not sure if either of these interpretations are true, but I don't think we can dismiss the idea of some sort of consciousness after death so quickly. myself, i have no idea what happens after death. If there is some sort of existance, I'll find out when I get there, and if not, well I won't! One of my favourite sayings of epicurus was Death is nothing to me, for where I am death has not come, and when death has come I am not! which I think conclusively disproves all those people who woffle on about how bad the idea of not existing after death is. Myself, I'm totally agnostic on the subject, but i don't see it as bad either way, and there are life circumstances under which suicide is a totally rational choice. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , testerswith Braille displays Hi Dark, just curious, what engineers have there been in the past who are blind? I can't name that many historical famous blind people. I know of I think a handful, Louis Braille obviously, John Millton, then there was the king of bohemia think it was in the 12th or 13th century. To give him credit, he lead his army into battle and was promptly cut down unsurprisingly. I don't think I can think of any others off hand. Regarding your view of death, I think I two wouldn't want to be around after an apocalypse, i'm not quite sure how I would end things, unfortunately all the so called painless methods take skill to get right, and I certainly wouldn't want to hang myself. I look on death as like going to sleep, as I never dream, so for me sleep is pretty much like ceasing to exist. We are only around for a short time, the world got on fine before I existed, and will do again when I am gone, also I never had any awareness before I existed, so death shouldn't be that bad. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Dark, well I am an atheist so I think that there is no such thing as an after life in the sense that the bible talks about it. I think either we stop existing entirely, or maybe we get absorbed into the environment and affect the atmosphere of a place. I certainly don't think we reincarnate or anything like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays
Well I won't debate atheism at this point sinse it's way off topic from this list, though I will say that dismissing 4000 years of religious experiences, ie, the experience of the none physical presence of the devine all as lies, and asserting for definite that you know something not! to exist seems to me quite the leap of faith, especially when you considder that our current scientific view of the world is based just as much on opinion, hearsay and guess work, (everyone who claimes to be an atheist should be made to study philosophy of science as a matter of course). That's why i count myself as a total agnostic on life after death, as in fact most philosophers are. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays Hi Dark, well I am an atheist so I think that there is no such thing as an after life in the sense that the bible talks about it. I think either we stop existing entirely, or maybe we get absorbed into the environment and affect the atmosphere of a place. I certainly don't think we reincarnate or anything like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi dark, When you consider the fact that you cannot destroy energy, when you use it in 1 fassion it transforms into another, for example, you gurn wood it creats heat and light, just because the wood runs out doesn't mean the light has also stopped it's just moved on. taking that into account, brain patterns and the like are also energy conscious thought so why would this be different? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:49 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays Well I won't debate atheism at this point sinse it's way off topic from this list, though I will say that dismissing 4000 years of religious experiences, ie, the experience of the none physical presence of the devine all as lies, and asserting for definite that you know something not! to exist seems to me quite the leap of faith, especially when you considder that our current scientific view of the world is based just as much on opinion, hearsay and guess work, (everyone who claimes to be an atheist should be made to study philosophy of science as a matter of course). That's why i count myself as a total agnostic on life after death, as in fact most philosophers are. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays Hi Dark, well I am an atheist so I think that there is no such thing as an after life in the sense that the bible talks about it. I think either we stop existing entirely, or maybe we get absorbed into the environment and affect the atmosphere of a place. I certainly don't think we reincarnate or anything like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Darren. Interesting, though technically you could argue that in entropy energy is destroyed, or at least used up and this is what happens to consciousness, if you were absolutely bent on the idea. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , ,testerswith Braille displays Hi dark, When you consider the fact that you cannot destroy energy, when you use it in 1 fassion it transforms into another, for example, you gurn wood it creats heat and light, just because the wood runs out doesn't mean the light has also stopped it's just moved on. taking that into account, brain patterns and the like are also energy conscious thought so why would this be different? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 08 August 2012 18:49 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays Well I won't debate atheism at this point sinse it's way off topic from this list, though I will say that dismissing 4000 years of religious experiences, ie, the experience of the none physical presence of the devine all as lies, and asserting for definite that you know something not! to exist seems to me quite the leap of faith, especially when you considder that our current scientific view of the world is based just as much on opinion, hearsay and guess work, (everyone who claimes to be an atheist should be made to study philosophy of science as a matter of course). That's why i count myself as a total agnostic on life after death, as in fact most philosophers are. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays Hi Dark, well I am an atheist so I think that there is no such thing as an after life in the sense that the bible talks about it. I think either we stop existing entirely, or maybe we get absorbed into the environment and affect the atmosphere of a place. I certainly don't think we reincarnate or anything like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi all, Can we please get back on topic here? I've noticed for the last couple of days this subject has been drifting and I think we've gone too far off topic now. So let's steer things back onto topic. One's religious views or lack there of really has nothing to do with the subject of braille and games. Thanks. On 8/8/12, Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Dark, well I am an atheist so I think that there is no such thing as an after life in the sense that the bible talks about it. I think either we stop existing entirely, or maybe we get absorbed into the environment and affect the atmosphere of a place. I certainly don't think we reincarnate or anything like that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi. We just had something like this happen to us just a few weeks ago. anybody hear on the news about a storm that knocked out the Virginia and West Virginia and Ohio areas? they said on the news that 80 percent of West Virginia citizens were without power. Our power was off for 6 days. It was just about 100 degrees every one of those days. We happened to have a Tecumseh 5500 Wat gasoline generator, but it wasn't running very well of course. On top of that, we just built this house, totally ironic. in the last house we were using 4 or 5 window air conditioners to keep cool during the summer. In this new house we have a 3 ton 36000 CBTU central air conditioner. that generator was able to run 3 of those window air conditioners. We sold those air conditioners when we were building the new house to have the money to put towards the building project. That generator couldn't run the central air unit. We had no window air conditioning for 5 of those days. We finally got us a 5000 CBTU window air conditioner for 99 dollars from Kai mart, no really K mart but lol anyway. That did a passable job of keeping us cool until the power came back on, was just a few hours after we got it. Ouch! I have a Honda EU10, which is a small and very quiet inverter generator that runs for 9 hours on 0.6 gallons of gasoline. Inverter power is really clean with no spikes or brownouts, which makes it great to run electronic equipment like desktop computers and printers and what not. Most laptops can take pretty lousy electricity because the transformer, that's the brick that charges it, will help to clean up the field as it converts to dc. Like you were saying, if that had happened to us in the winter, we would have had NG still and could have easily powered the furnace fan to heat our house most likely even with my small generator. It's so ironic. everyone is mostly concerned about heating during an emergency situation. Now days with these occasional extreme heat summers and with people used to good air conditioning all their lives having cooling environments is also important. Heat is easier to do than cool air. What about refrigerators and the like. that's bad too. We were lucky to have our generator. We live on a farm and are proudly somewhat self sufficient. Not at all completely, but more so than people in Chicago or New York or a lot of other larger cities would be. I maintained an internet connection through the power outage and was not only able to continue reading books and playing games and checking email, but could keep on downloading new books to read. There's an interesting feeling when you get to do those things in spite of the situation you're in. As far as food, we have lots of food in the seller and in the freezers. As long as we could find gasoline, which we did have trouble doing, and keep that old generator going, we could sustain a passable living for a month or so at least I'm thinking. We even had trouble catching up with Diesel for our truck, which is weird because not many people use diesel generators. We drove the diesel truck to town to get gasoline in case we were unable to find gasoline and would have to resort to using the gasoline in the trail blazer to run the generator. Only thing i can think of is big stores like walmart and the like must have been using up the diesel supply to keep their big diesel generators going. If worse had come to worse, we could have moved back into my camper which we had just moved out of into the new house and used that since that old generator was plenty powerful enough to run the air conditioner in the camper. We knew of people who did that. Once we were driving and saw people in a camper next to a house that had no roof. When our power came back on, we let someone we don't know very well at all borrow the generator. they needed it for three more days before their power came back on and their house is only a mile and a half from ours. We were able to run the electric stove in the kitchen with the generator, or failing that we could use the outdoor grill at least until we ran out of LP. I agree, when the power goes out, your first worry is definitely not how you'll be writing or playing games. It's all about how to keep the refrigerator and freezer going, how to heat up the food. How to get freshwater. city folks do have the country folks outdone on that in some ways because the water pump in that city will most likely be driven by a backup generator or battery, meaning the people in their homes need only be concerned with heating the water. For the people out in the country who use water wells a generator is needed to keep the water supply handy. Our generator had quite a time keeping up with the water pump and the hot water tank even with everything else turned off. Plus, we have cows on the farm, and their is another well that we had to keep running as much as possible too given how hot it was
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi tom. if braille displays were cheaper I'd agree, but the money involved is just too much for most private individuals to afford, which is why many blind people don't have them sinse the only way your going to get that sort of money is out of the state, and the state can vary on what they provide, indeed in Britain your unlikely to get a braille display out of them unless you really push while in full time education. This is indeed why i don't have one myself, sinse I only used my student support grant to pay for stuff I actually! needed, and there was no earthly reason why I would need a braille display specifically at university, sinse I wasn't studdying a science or mathematical subject that would provide problems for a screen reader. Where as with screen reader support there are free alternatives, or indeed no! alternative via sapi, i'm less convinced about the braille display as a gaming device, unless it was only an optional extra in a game, rather than a completely necessary requirement. As I said, I'm fairly convinced myself that unless the technology changes to a full tactile display in the future, braille is unlikely to survive for that much longer as a medium anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Dark, Sadly, you are probably right. The number of people who claim braille is no longer needed, braille is no longer useful, braille is outdated, etc has been growing steadily over the last 20 years as computer technology has improved. There are certain elements within the American special education system who believe braille should be dropped in favor of some other alternative such as e-books and computerized educational materials. So you may be correct that braille is on its way out. However, it still begs the question of what people would use in stead of braille. I personally maintain that there is a special niche where braille comes in handy and is still useful on a day to day bases, and people would be missing out if it is taken away from them. Let's take card and board games as a simple example. I can walk into any store in America and buy a board game and braille the cards, braille the money,and put braille labels on the various squares to make it accessible. I suppose there probably are alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, but braille seems to be the most practical in this case. I don't imagine someone would by a pen friend, whatever you call it, and use it to label the game, money, and playing cards when braille would suffice. Another use for braille is labeling items around the home. It is easy to make up several labels using label tape, sticking it on a rubber band, and then slip it over various cans of food. I use to have reusable braille labels I could put on cans of food saying corn, peas, green beans, baked beans, etc. It was nice and handy. I'm sure someone could get by just by organizing their cans of food or using some sort of talking label, but I've found braille just as helpful and a very practical solution in that instance. However, I'll freely admit that I learned braille early enough in my life to grown comfortable with its use. I began learning braille when I was 10, long before I totally lost my sight,so when I did loose my sight I was prepared to make the most of what braille has to offer. Moreover when I began learning braille things like OCR technology were in their infancy and well beyond the price range of the average blind person. My first encounter with a scanner was of a Curswhile Reading Edge, which was extremely heavy, and cost something like $5,000 USD. Jaws was also in its infancy, and was also about $1,000 without a synth which was extra. Considering the prices of computer technology in the late 80's and early 90's a person could easily pay $5,000 for an IBM I286 with PC Dos, Jaws for Dos, Word Perfect,a printer, etc. In short, at the time it didn't look like computers would ever become a replacement for braille, because the cost of ownership was beyond someone's means. While Curswhile's Reading Edge was the cat's meow in terms of reading print materials I didn't imagine that technology would come down in price. Now, of course, that situation has reversed itself somewhat. A person can walk into Wal-mart and buy a fairly new desktop or laptop for under $500, download a free screen reader like NVDA, and purchase a scanner for less than $100. Probably the most expensive piece of software would be buying a decent OCRpackage like Omnipage 18 for about $500, but a person can realistically have a fully accessible computer for just slightly more than the cost of Jaws. That's assuming he or she uses Windows. These days its possible to purchase a new Del laptop or desktop preloaded with Ubuntu Linux for much less than the going Windows PC. All or most of the necessary Linux software including operating system, screen reader, speech synth, OCR software, etc is 100% free. A person's investment is totally in hardware. So the cost of ownership for accessible computer technology has gone way down in the last 20 years. Bottom line, technology has changed, I'm certainly all for that, but I grew up with braille so am attached to it. For me I am happy to balance my use of computer technology with less technical forms of reading and writing using braille. Cheers! On 8/7/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. if braille displays were cheaper I'd agree, but the money involved is just too much for most private individuals to afford, which is why many blind people don't have them sinse the only way your going to get that sort of money is out of the state, and the state can vary on what they provide, indeed in Britain your unlikely to get a braille display out of them unless you really push while in full time education. This is indeed why i don't have one myself, sinse I only used my student support grant to pay for stuff I actually! needed, and there was no earthly reason why I would need a braille display specifically at university, sinse I wasn't studdying a science or mathematical subject that would provide problems for a screen reader. Where as with screen reader support there are free alternatives, or indeed no! alternative via sapi, i'm
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi tom I agree with dark in that the cost of braille devices is still way beyond the average person's means. Basically braille is being killed by the price tag attached to it. Take a brailler for example, they are about £400 or something like that anyway. they aren't portable, they're clunky, noisy and these days quite flimsy if what I'm told of the new moddles are true. You can't use them for anything other than writing, so basically you're paying all that money for a 6 pronged pen. As for braille displays, they are just as expensive. Using out of date technology with an absolute ridiculous price tag and as for maintenance costs? Is it any wonder braille is dying? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Tom. Up until recently I would've fully agreed with you that despite advances in computer technology, the instant access braille provides for lables and other bits of information is absolutely irriplaceable. However, the penfriend has largely for me replaced the function braille used to perform, sinse all I need to do is stick a sticker on something, touch the penfriend to it hit record and speak, which is actually far easier than writing, cutting and correctly sticking a braille lable on something, and in terms of cost, the penfriend machine itself cost less than a brailler and it's lables are less expensive. It also takes far less time and can be done with a none braillist, indeed I paid my research assistant for an hour's work and got my entire unlabled dvd and cd collections done, including all 7 seasons of star trek voyager and several rather large box sets. Undoubtedly, the penfriend labeling system isn't perfect. You can't for instance avoid it speaking out the lable it reads, which would make playing cards with it say pretty difficult, but I'm fairly certain a version with headphones is just around the corner, also a version with different levels of tactile labeling so that you could mark squares on a board for basic layout and use the penfriend for specific square reading. of course, if braille technology can catch up, then this situation might change. For instance, the current braille display designs of about a line of text represented by motorized pins are pretty much the same as they were when first developed in the mid nineties. A few years ago however, I did discuss with several engineers of specialist tech (it was at the Uk vi tech sexhibition site village), the possibility of the developement of a plastic which would tense when an electric current ran through it. A sheet of this could be used with correct internal programming to create an A 4 sized tactile display comparatively cheaply. under those! circumstances, with large, relatively cheap displays able to show an a full screen of infomation in tactile form i could see braille very muh making a come back, sinse then any and all spacial information woule equally available to a vi computer user, and in a far more efficient method than with a screen reader. Imagine playing chess on a computer with a real tactile board, or better still, having a game like time of conflict where you could run your hands over aa dynamic map overview and read the identity of labled units as they moved around. That sort of developement would be a total change, and not just in games, sinse graphs, tables, pie charts, tree diagrams and other forms of spacial representative data would be just as accessible to a vlind user, which would have great applications for business, science, and goodness knows what else. Failing this sort of developement in technology though, I can see braille being made completely obsolete in the next 20 years or so, sinse with the rise of scanning and coding technology like the penfriend, even it's essentially fast labeling functions will soon be things which can be done far more easily via electronics. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Damien, You and Dark are absolutely right that cost of producing braille material and using braille is far beyond the means of any average blind person. That is definitely one of the leading causes of why braille is dying out among the blind community. Its just too high to be practical for someone on a fixed income. Unless this changes braille probably will become a minority skill for blind users world wide. As you pointed out a braille writer is extremely expensive. I believe here in the USA a braille writer costs about $850 last time I checked, and all it does is write braille. For that kind of money I can buy a brand new laptop, put NVDA on it, get Microsoft Office, and throw in a printer too for the price of that braille writer. So the cost of the specialized braille writer really isn't cost effective now that computer technology can be purchased at a mere fraction of what it cost 20 years ago. That's not even considering the cost of a decent braille printer these days. I haven't priced braille printers in a while, but seems to me I paid about $2,500 for the one I used in high school and college. Regardless of the actual price tag I have never gotten enough use of it to really have been a worthwhile investment. That's not even considering the cost of a ream of braille paper which is much more than a ream of print paper. The wireless Focus 40 braille displays from Freedom Scientific, which I really like, start out at $2,795 USD. That's not exactly pocket change for the average blind computer user, and I doubt I would have considered buying one if I didn't use it for programming. Bottom line, as everyone agrees braille displays aren't cost effective for the average blind computer user. There just isn't any incentive to pay that kind of money when speech output will do most of the time. Of course, this argument might apply to any kind of specialized tech in general. I remember in the early 1990's, perhaps 1992, I got my first Braille N' Speak. At the time they were going for $2,500 round figures. While that sounds extremely expensive you need to remember that a laptop with Windows 3.1 on it would easily go for $2,000 without Jaws for Dos, Jaws for Windows, and a hardware synthesizer. When you added in the adaptive software and the hardware synthesizer a person was looking at $4,000 to $5,000 for an accessible laptop computer. So in that light a Braille N' Speak was very cost effective at the time. However, the laptop I purchased this fall only cost me $325, NVDA cost me nothing, and we don't use hardware synthesizers any more so with tax and all I got the new laptop for under $400. That's a huge difference in price, and one reason something like a Braille N' Speak probably wouldn't sell today for those kinds of prices. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom I agree with dark in that the cost of braille devices is still way beyond the average person's means. Basically braille is being killed by the price tag attached to it. Take a brailler for example, they are about £400 or something like that anyway. they aren't portable, they're clunky, noisy and these days quite flimsy if what I'm told of the new moddles are true. You can't use them for anything other than writing, so basically you're paying all that money for a 6 pronged pen. As for braille displays, they are just as expensive. Using out of date technology with an absolute ridiculous price tag and as for maintenance costs? Is it any wonder braille is dying? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 August 2012 11:51 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Damien, You and Dark are absolutely right that cost of producing braille material and using braille is far beyond the means of any average blind person. That is definitely one of the leading causes of why braille is dying out among the blind community. Its just too high to be practical for someone on a fixed income. Unless this changes braille probably will become a minority skill for blind users world wide. As you pointed out a braille writer is extremely expensive. I believe here in the USA a braille writer costs about $850 last time I checked, and all it does is write braille. For that kind of money I can buy a brand new laptop, put NVDA on it, get Microsoft Office, and throw in a printer too for the price of that braille writer. So the cost of the specialized braille writer really isn't cost effective now that computer technology can be purchased at a mere fraction of what it cost 20 years ago. That's not even considering the cost of a decent braille printer these days. I haven't priced braille printers in a while, but seems to me I paid about $2,500 for the one I used in high school and college. Regardless of the actual price tag I have never gotten enough use of it to really have been a worthwhile investment. That's not even considering the cost of a ream of braille paper which is much more than a ream of print paper. The wireless Focus 40 braille displays from Freedom Scientific, which I really like, start out at $2,795 USD. That's not exactly pocket change for the average blind computer user, and I doubt I would have considered buying one if I didn't use it for programming. Bottom line, as everyone agrees braille displays aren't cost effective for the average blind computer user. There just isn't any incentive to pay that kind of money when speech output will do most of the time. Of course, this argument might apply to any kind of specialized tech in general. I remember in the early 1990's, perhaps 1992, I got my first Braille N' Speak. At the time they were going for $2,500 round figures. While that sounds extremely expensive you need to remember that a laptop with Windows 3.1 on it would easily go for $2,000 without Jaws for Dos, Jaws for Windows, and a hardware synthesizer. When you added in the adaptive software and the hardware synthesizer a person was looking at $4,000 to $5,000 for an accessible laptop computer. So in that light a Braille N' Speak was very cost effective at the time. However, the laptop I purchased this fall only cost me $325, NVDA cost me nothing, and we don't use hardware synthesizers any more so with tax and all I got the new laptop for under $400. That's a huge difference in price, and one reason something like a Braille N' Speak probably wouldn't sell today for those kinds of prices. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom I agree with dark in that the cost of braille devices is still way beyond the average person's means. Basically braille is being killed by the price tag attached to it. Take a brailler for example, they are about £400 or something like that anyway. they aren't portable, they're clunky, noisy and these days quite flimsy if what I'm told of the new moddles are true. You can't use them for anything other than writing, so basically you're paying all that money for a 6 pronged pen. As for braille displays, they are just as expensive. Using out of date technology with an absolute ridiculous price tag and as for maintenance costs? Is it any wonder braille is dying? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Dark, I'll have to look around for a penfriend and try it out. I've never seen one before, and you are the only person I know of who has one. So perhaps they aren't widely in circulation here in the States. However, I'll admit, for the sake of argument, it does sound easier for someone to manage. Especially, for someone who has recently lost their sight and doesn't know braille to begin with. However, as for the full sized braille display I would love to see something like that. I remember in college having to create charts in Microsoft Excel for various classes, and it use to drive me up the wall not being able to instantly get access to it. A braille display that could display a full spreadsheet or a chart would be my very best friend. As you pointed out the applications of such a display are nearly endless. Being able to bring up a map of units and cities in Time of Conflict in braille and being able to examine the entire map on a braille display would absolutely rock. Unfortunately, Freedom Scientific and just about everyone else who produces braille displays don't seem to be in any hurry in developing a full sized display. Quite the opposite in fact. For example, back in June Freedom Scientific just began shipping their new Focus braille displays. They now can interface with smart phones, computers,etc via blue tooth. One of its selling features is that it is being marketed as a portable hand-held display with a carrying case and is pocket sized. So instead of making bigger and larger displays Freedom Scientific is now making smaller more portable braille devices. Obviously by shrinking the size and weight of the unit there is little hope they will create a display large enough to display an entire page of text in braille. Not at least for a price you are willing to pay for. If they charge $2,795 for a basic 40 cell display I hate to think what a full sized display would cost. Probably not anything less than $5,000. Cheers! On 8/7/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Up until recently I would've fully agreed with you that despite advances in computer technology, the instant access braille provides for lables and other bits of information is absolutely irriplaceable. However, the penfriend has largely for me replaced the function braille used to perform, sinse all I need to do is stick a sticker on something, touch the penfriend to it hit record and speak, which is actually far easier than writing, cutting and correctly sticking a braille lable on something, and in terms of cost, the penfriend machine itself cost less than a brailler and it's lables are less expensive. It also takes far less time and can be done with a none braillist, indeed I paid my research assistant for an hour's work and got my entire unlabled dvd and cd collections done, including all 7 seasons of star trek voyager and several rather large box sets. Undoubtedly, the penfriend labeling system isn't perfect. You can't for instance avoid it speaking out the lable it reads, which would make playing cards with it say pretty difficult, but I'm fairly certain a version with headphones is just around the corner, also a version with different levels of tactile labeling so that you could mark squares on a board for basic layout and use the penfriend for specific square reading. of course, if braille technology can catch up, then this situation might change. For instance, the current braille display designs of about a line of text represented by motorized pins are pretty much the same as they were when first developed in the mid nineties. A few years ago however, I did discuss with several engineers of specialist tech (it was at the Uk vi tech sexhibition site village), the possibility of the developement of a plastic which would tense when an electric current ran through it. A sheet of this could be used with correct internal programming to create an A 4 sized tactile display comparatively cheaply. under those! circumstances, with large, relatively cheap displays able to show an a full screen of infomation in tactile form i could see braille very muh making a come back, sinse then any and all spacial information woule equally available to a vi computer user, and in a far more efficient method than with a screen reader. Imagine playing chess on a computer with a real tactile board, or better still, having a game like time of conflict where you could run your hands over aa dynamic map overview and read the identity of labled units as they moved around. That sort of developement would be a total change, and not just in games, sinse graphs, tables, pie charts, tree diagrams and other forms of spacial representative data would be just as accessible to a vlind user, which would have great applications for business, science, and goodness knows what else. Failing this sort of developement in technology though, I can see braille being made completely obsolete in the
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Darren, Oh, absolutely. That's why I use Linux as my primary operating system these days. The cost of computer hardware has come down, most Windows software is reasonably priced, but the cost of adaptive tech such as screen readers and OCR programs like Openbook remain extremely high in contrast. For a Linux user the Orca screen reader comes with the OS, the way Voiceover comes with Mac, and there are free OCR solutions such as Easy OCR which is free as well. I don't see continuing to pay for Jaws, Openbook, Window-Eyes, etc for the prices they are charging when there are cheaper alternatives available. In addition to Linux I've been looking at investing in an Apple computer. Mac OS really has come up in the world of accessibility and the way accessibility is integrated into the OS plus the stability of the software is certainly something to consider. I think if Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Dolphin, etc aren't careful they may have their socks blown off by Apple because having to purchase a screen reader for $1,000 quid just isn't financially feasible or necessary these days. /Especially, not with access technology coming down in price for non-Windows platforms. So the sooner more people realize that, get free of their high priced access software in favor of less expensive alternatives, the more those companies will have to come down in price or risk of going out of business. Just look at the popularity of NVDA which is definitely the cost effective solution for Windows. I think the only reason NVDA isn't more popular is many people are dissatisfied with the screen review which is a bit clunky compared to Jaws or Window-Eyes, but is functional once a person figures out how to use it correctly. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Tom. I'm not sure about the penfriend and the us I'm afraid, sinse I got one from the rnib here directly rather than from a different company, indeed I've been amazed that the rnib sold something so usefull :D. As regards braille displays, well the main problem is that currently the braille display works by having a small motor and a pin under each dot of a sell, which means 240 in a 40 cell display. Apparently under production cost each cell costs 25 pounds or about 40 dollars to make, which pretty much means that dropping price is totally out the window. The idea of a full sized display was based on actual developement of new technology for showing braille, which is really my point. Unless the actual technology! involved in braille changes it'll be left behind as much as pens with ink wells, mimmiograph printing and manual typewriters have been left behind, no matter how many blue tooth connections, snazzy cases or other gimics it comes with, sinse it's the display technology itself which needs to change, though unfortunately I know change isn't exactly the forte of a lot of people involved in accessible technology. It's actually a little frustrating, sinse I'm fairly sure the technology to create a functional large size display without! all those silly motors is already being used, it's just that nobody seems to want to apply it yet. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
If all the blind tech dropped in price then I would be happy to get it. braille is making a resergence in the education arieas here. We don't get laptops we get braille displays now. ofcause the units we use can cost from 7000 to 3 bucks depending on where we get them from and I think they are humanware. An average laptop costs about 1000-2000 depending on the system. add about 500 to 1000 for office and a reader for say 1-3000 for reader and training, and maybe then say a scanning app for another 1000. Ok so the initial cost is probably about 1 but ongoing costs are quite low. if you ran the basics I think 3-4000 tops would cover the basic laptop, office, a reader and any misc items maybe even less than 3000. And well there you go its cheaper. Sertainly I could never afford a braille display if I ever had one in the first place. So chances are I would have gone and got a laptop anyway. As I said though if I restarted I'd get a braille unit and also a mac which can cost about 2000 and have everything basically loaded in it. True I'd probably have to get a vm software and windows for gaming but still to maintain what I have costs a lot if you have to lump it. At 05:30 a.m. 7/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Dark, Sadly, you are probably right. The number of people who claim braille is no longer needed, braille is no longer useful, braille is outdated, etc has been growing steadily over the last 20 years as computer technology has improved. There are certain elements within the American special education system who believe braille should be dropped in favor of some other alternative such as e-books and computerized educational materials. So you may be correct that braille is on its way out. However, it still begs the question of what people would use in stead of braille. I personally maintain that there is a special niche where braille comes in handy and is still useful on a day to day bases, and people would be missing out if it is taken away from them. Let's take card and board games as a simple example. I can walk into any store in America and buy a board game and braille the cards, braille the money,and put braille labels on the various squares to make it accessible. I suppose there probably are alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, but braille seems to be the most practical in this case. I don't imagine someone would by a pen friend, whatever you call it, and use it to label the game, money, and playing cards when braille would suffice. Another use for braille is labeling items around the home. It is easy to make up several labels using label tape, sticking it on a rubber band, and then slip it over various cans of food. I use to have reusable braille labels I could put on cans of food saying corn, peas, green beans, baked beans, etc. It was nice and handy. I'm sure someone could get by just by organizing their cans of food or using some sort of talking label, but I've found braille just as helpful and a very practical solution in that instance. However, I'll freely admit that I learned braille early enough in my life to grown comfortable with its use. I began learning braille when I was 10, long before I totally lost my sight,so when I did loose my sight I was prepared to make the most of what braille has to offer. Moreover when I began learning braille things like OCR technology were in their infancy and well beyond the price range of the average blind person. My first encounter with a scanner was of a Curswhile Reading Edge, which was extremely heavy, and cost something like $5,000 USD. Jaws was also in its infancy, and was also about $1,000 without a synth which was extra. Considering the prices of computer technology in the late 80's and early 90's a person could easily pay $5,000 for an IBM I286 with PC Dos, Jaws for Dos, Word Perfect,a printer, etc. In short, at the time it didn't look like computers would ever become a replacement for braille, because the cost of ownership was beyond someone's means. While Curswhile's Reading Edge was the cat's meow in terms of reading print materials I didn't imagine that technology would come down in price. Now, of course, that situation has reversed itself somewhat. A person can walk into Wal-mart and buy a fairly new desktop or laptop for under $500, download a free screen reader like NVDA, and purchase a scanner for less than $100. Probably the most expensive piece of software would be buying a decent OCRpackage like Omnipage 18 for about $500, but a person can realistically have a fully accessible computer for just slightly more than the cost of Jaws. That's assuming he or she uses Windows. These days its possible to purchase a new Del laptop or desktop preloaded with Ubuntu Linux for much less than the going Windows PC. All or most of the necessary Linux software including operating system, screen reader, speech synth, OCR software, etc is 100% free. A person's investment is totally in hardware. So the cost of
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Well I hope that this stuff comes soon. A brailled apple device, windows phone or tablet or android device would just be plain nerdy and with speech to. all we need is tactile pictures on devices and we would be set. At 11:44 a.m. 7/08/2012 +0100, you wrote: Hi Tom. Up until recently I would've fully agreed with you that despite advances in computer technology, the instant access braille provides for lables and other bits of information is absolutely irriplaceable. However, the penfriend has largely for me replaced the function braille used to perform, sinse all I need to do is stick a sticker on something, touch the penfriend to it hit record and speak, which is actually far easier than writing, cutting and correctly sticking a braille lable on something, and in terms of cost, the penfriend machine itself cost less than a brailler and it's lables are less expensive. It also takes far less time and can be done with a none braillist, indeed I paid my research assistant for an hour's work and got my entire unlabled dvd and cd collections done, including all 7 seasons of star trek voyager and several rather large box sets. Undoubtedly, the penfriend labeling system isn't perfect. You can't for instance avoid it speaking out the lable it reads, which would make playing cards with it say pretty difficult, but I'm fairly certain a version with headphones is just around the corner, also a version with different levels of tactile labeling so that you could mark squares on a board for basic layout and use the penfriend for specific square reading. of course, if braille technology can catch up, then this situation might change. For instance, the current braille display designs of about a line of text represented by motorized pins are pretty much the same as they were when first developed in the mid nineties. A few years ago however, I did discuss with several engineers of specialist tech (it was at the Uk vi tech sexhibition site village), the possibility of the developement of a plastic which would tense when an electric current ran through it. A sheet of this could be used with correct internal programming to create an A 4 sized tactile display comparatively cheaply. under those! circumstances, with large, relatively cheap displays able to show an a full screen of infomation in tactile form i could see braille very muh making a come back, sinse then any and all spacial information woule equally available to a vi computer user, and in a far more efficient method than with a screen reader. Imagine playing chess on a computer with a real tactile board, or better still, having a game like time of conflict where you could run your hands over aa dynamic map overview and read the identity of labled units as they moved around. That sort of developement would be a total change, and not just in games, sinse graphs, tables, pie charts, tree diagrams and other forms of spacial representative data would be just as accessible to a vlind user, which would have great applications for business, science, and goodness knows what else. Failing this sort of developement in technology though, I can see braille being made completely obsolete in the next 20 years or so, sinse with the rise of scanning and coding technology like the penfriend, even it's essentially fast labeling functions will soon be things which can be done far more easily via electronics. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
there are not to many braille computers. the humanware stuff is windows ce but no games exist for that platform really. there is the pack mate which is parmos and therefore has a better time with programs but still. At 06:50 a.m. 7/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Damien, You and Dark are absolutely right that cost of producing braille material and using braille is far beyond the means of any average blind person. That is definitely one of the leading causes of why braille is dying out among the blind community. Its just too high to be practical for someone on a fixed income. Unless this changes braille probably will become a minority skill for blind users world wide. As you pointed out a braille writer is extremely expensive. I believe here in the USA a braille writer costs about $850 last time I checked, and all it does is write braille. For that kind of money I can buy a brand new laptop, put NVDA on it, get Microsoft Office, and throw in a printer too for the price of that braille writer. So the cost of the specialized braille writer really isn't cost effective now that computer technology can be purchased at a mere fraction of what it cost 20 years ago. That's not even considering the cost of a decent braille printer these days. I haven't priced braille printers in a while, but seems to me I paid about $2,500 for the one I used in high school and college. Regardless of the actual price tag I have never gotten enough use of it to really have been a worthwhile investment. That's not even considering the cost of a ream of braille paper which is much more than a ream of print paper. The wireless Focus 40 braille displays from Freedom Scientific, which I really like, start out at $2,795 USD. That's not exactly pocket change for the average blind computer user, and I doubt I would have considered buying one if I didn't use it for programming. Bottom line, as everyone agrees braille displays aren't cost effective for the average blind computer user. There just isn't any incentive to pay that kind of money when speech output will do most of the time. Of course, this argument might apply to any kind of specialized tech in general. I remember in the early 1990's, perhaps 1992, I got my first Braille N' Speak. At the time they were going for $2,500 round figures. While that sounds extremely expensive you need to remember that a laptop with Windows 3.1 on it would easily go for $2,000 without Jaws for Dos, Jaws for Windows, and a hardware synthesizer. When you added in the adaptive software and the hardware synthesizer a person was looking at $4,000 to $5,000 for an accessible laptop computer. So in that light a Braille N' Speak was very cost effective at the time. However, the laptop I purchased this fall only cost me $325, NVDA cost me nothing, and we don't use hardware synthesizers any more so with tax and all I got the new laptop for under $400. That's a huge difference in price, and one reason something like a Braille N' Speak probably wouldn't sell today for those kinds of prices. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom I agree with dark in that the cost of braille devices is still way beyond the average person's means. Basically braille is being killed by the price tag attached to it. Take a brailler for example, they are about £400 or something like that anyway. they aren't portable, they're clunky, noisy and these days quite flimsy if what I'm told of the new moddles are true. You can't use them for anything other than writing, so basically you're paying all that money for a 6 pronged pen. As for braille displays, they are just as expensive. Using out of date technology with an absolute ridiculous price tag and as for maintenance costs? Is it any wonder braille is dying? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
well I aggree with you. I have to much invested in windows to actually contemplate a switch just yet. in windows I do a lot of stuff with nvda. I do learn braille and do read but the computer takes my time these days. I can also type faster than I could ever braille. Reading it is still good though. but yeah mac android and others. and with win8 being tablet spaciffic with hybrid pc os being quite bad with the interface I can see myself at least trying to switch at some point. Sertainly if I started out again I wouldn't natively run windows at least not as a primary os. a lot of games are windows so I guess I'd run my gaming and maybe do office with it but I'd never do much else I can assure you. At 12:01 p.m. 7/08/2012 +0100, you wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 August 2012 11:51 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Damien, You and Dark are absolutely right that cost of producing braille material and using braille is far beyond the means of any average blind person. That is definitely one of the leading causes of why braille is dying out among the blind community. Its just too high to be practical for someone on a fixed income. Unless this changes braille probably will become a minority skill for blind users world wide. As you pointed out a braille writer is extremely expensive. I believe here in the USA a braille writer costs about $850 last time I checked, and all it does is write braille. For that kind of money I can buy a brand new laptop, put NVDA on it, get Microsoft Office, and throw in a printer too for the price of that braille writer. So the cost of the specialized braille writer really isn't cost effective now that computer technology can be purchased at a mere fraction of what it cost 20 years ago. That's not even considering the cost of a decent braille printer these days. I haven't priced braille printers in a while, but seems to me I paid about $2,500 for the one I used in high school and college. Regardless of the actual price tag I have never gotten enough use of it to really have been a worthwhile investment. That's not even considering the cost of a ream of braille paper which is much more than a ream of print paper. The wireless Focus 40 braille displays from Freedom Scientific, which I really like, start out at $2,795 USD. That's not exactly pocket change for the average blind computer user, and I doubt I would have considered buying one if I didn't use it for programming. Bottom line, as everyone agrees braille displays aren't cost effective for the average blind computer user. There just isn't any incentive to pay that kind of money when speech output will do most of the time. Of course, this argument might apply to any kind of specialized tech in general. I remember in the early 1990's, perhaps 1992, I got my first Braille N' Speak. At the time they were going for $2,500 round figures. While that sounds extremely expensive you need to remember that a laptop with Windows 3.1 on it would easily go for $2,000 without Jaws for Dos, Jaws for Windows, and a hardware synthesizer. When you added in the adaptive software and the hardware synthesizer a person was looking at $4,000 to $5,000 for an accessible laptop computer. So in that light a Braille N' Speak was very cost effective at the time. However, the laptop I purchased this fall only cost me $325, NVDA cost me nothing, and we don't use hardware synthesizers any more so with tax and all I got the new laptop for under $400. That's a huge difference in price, and one reason something like a Braille N' Speak probably wouldn't sell today for those kinds of prices. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom I agree with dark in that the cost of braille devices is still way beyond the average person's means. Basically braille is being killed by the price tag attached to it. Take a brailler for example, they are about £400 or something like that anyway. they aren't portable, they're clunky, noisy and these days quite flimsy if what I'm told of the new moddles are true. You can't use them for anything other than writing, so basically you're paying all that money for a 6 pronged pen. As for
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Another issue tom is that all organisations here don't understand other oses. a lot of companies have contracts with 1 or more of the main previders. So unless those corperations switched we whould still have the issue. in some places I worked in they only recognised jaws. in a test subject I did for uni busness jaws was still the most popular. here we have jaws and dolphin depending where you are. And to be fair jaws is the crazy one win eyes you can lease if you want till you buy it which is at least affordable. Dolphin stuff is not as expensive as jaws and they do care about bundling a lot of things with their stuff which make it worth it. They also don't push payed upgrades at you they understand the cost. Sure they do cost but its always been worth the upgrade. The distributer I use understands the costs. dolphin stuff has been quite stable for me. but yeah, if I didn't have so much stuff invested I'd actually go mac or linux. Actually the only thing I have and like is eudora 7.1 I use with supernova and the rest with nvda so maybe I could go if I cared its just that windows games are all windows, blind games are windows so I'd need to run a vm. I may even have to one day so maybe one of these days I may switch. Ofcause everything I use here is pcs. So it pays to at least mirror what everyone uses here. At 07:28 a.m. 7/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Hi Darren, Oh, absolutely. That's why I use Linux as my primary operating system these days. The cost of computer hardware has come down, most Windows software is reasonably priced, but the cost of adaptive tech such as screen readers and OCR programs like Openbook remain extremely high in contrast. For a Linux user the Orca screen reader comes with the OS, the way Voiceover comes with Mac, and there are free OCR solutions such as Easy OCR which is free as well. I don't see continuing to pay for Jaws, Openbook, Window-Eyes, etc for the prices they are charging when there are cheaper alternatives available. In addition to Linux I've been looking at investing in an Apple computer. Mac OS really has come up in the world of accessibility and the way accessibility is integrated into the OS plus the stability of the software is certainly something to consider. I think if Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Dolphin, etc aren't careful they may have their socks blown off by Apple because having to purchase a screen reader for $1,000 quid just isn't financially feasible or necessary these days. /Especially, not with access technology coming down in price for non-Windows platforms. So the sooner more people realize that, get free of their high priced access software in favor of less expensive alternatives, the more those companies will have to come down in price or risk of going out of business. Just look at the popularity of NVDA which is definitely the cost effective solution for Windows. I think the only reason NVDA isn't more popular is many people are dissatisfied with the screen review which is a bit clunky compared to Jaws or Window-Eyes, but is functional once a person figures out how to use it correctly. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi list, I have been reading this thread with interest. speaking as someone who grew up using braille for the hole of what in the UK is known as primary school, and in the US as elementary school as well as for part of my secondary or highschool education I certainly think braille will not be as widely used as it once was in the coming years. I actually only started learning how to touch type at the age of 12, and didn't start using computers in education full time til about the age of 15 or 16, there use greatly helped me do things faster and of course the internet definitely increased access to information, I well remember the challenges of trying to read huge textbooks or locate sections within them quickly. However, I think as has already been stated Braille still has a use in a minority of areas such as learning languages etc. One thing I don't think has been covered though is the fact that through our increasing reliance on technology and the decline in the use of braille we are in some ways inccreasing our dependence on the sighted world dramatically. I say this, because all our technology we use, computers etc relies on power, now lets imagine that tomorrow the world ends and the lights go out. That then puts an end to pretty much any electronic technology, no more ebooks, no more e mails, no more texting from your mobile device of choice. In that situation, sighted people will be able to pick up print books for there reading needs, and pens or pencils for communicating or just keeping diaries or records. Those blind people who know braille will still have methods of accessing information and writing information independent of sighted people, whereas those who don't know braille will be extremely reliant on sighted people for reading and writing. I also might be totally wrong about this, but I am sure I read about a blind judge in South Africa who helped the apartheid resistance by passing information in Braille, it was either that or Nazi resistance, I am sure a bit of googling could find the information. Just as a side note, I am in the UK, and I have found it difficult to get repairs done to my brailler, I phoned the local blind society and a few other organisations, but none knew of anyone who could help me, and it will be a real nuisance to pack it up, address it and send it to the rnib to see if they can make repairs to it. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to braille on a card that was two thick that has made it jam, but I was only previously using it to write a few birthday and christmas cards, so I am wondering if its really worth me getting it fixed. The point I am simply trying to make is that the skills for maintaining equipment seem to be lacking, I mean you would think a blind society would know of people locally or nearer than the RNIB who could make repairs for me. these are just my thoughts, Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Screen review is the reason I don't use NVDA to be honest. I've no idea how to use the feature, and it doesn't appear to be well documented. in fact the documentation is hard to get around and doesn't appear to be logically organized. perhaps it's just me though? I'd definitely appreciate some help on this feature. also can people reassign keyboard layouts on NVDA? I'd love to make it more like jaws if possible. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Darren, Oh, absolutely. That's why I use Linux as my primary operating system these days. The cost of computer hardware has come down, most Windows software is reasonably priced, but the cost of adaptive tech such as screen readers and OCR programs like Openbook remain extremely high in contrast. For a Linux user the Orca screen reader comes with the OS, the way Voiceover comes with Mac, and there are free OCR solutions such as Easy OCR which is free as well. I don't see continuing to pay for Jaws, Openbook, Window-Eyes, etc for the prices they are charging when there are cheaper alternatives available. In addition to Linux I've been looking at investing in an Apple computer. Mac OS really has come up in the world of accessibility and the way accessibility is integrated into the OS plus the stability of the software is certainly something to consider. I think if Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Dolphin, etc aren't careful they may have their socks blown off by Apple because having to purchase a screen reader for $1,000 quid just isn't financially feasible or necessary these days. /Especially, not with access technology coming down in price for non-Windows platforms. So the sooner more people realize that, get free of their high priced access software in favor of less expensive alternatives, the more those companies will have to come down in price or risk of going out of business. Just look at the popularity of NVDA which is definitely the cost effective solution for Windows. I think the only reason NVDA isn't more popular is many people are dissatisfied with the screen review which is a bit clunky compared to Jaws or Window-Eyes, but is functional once a person figures out how to use it correctly. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
I completely agree with you yohandi, with all the points. Its just such a shame that something with such potential has a feature that is totally unusable. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: 07 August 2012 13:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Screen review is the reason I don't use NVDA to be honest. I've no idea how to use the feature, and it doesn't appear to be well documented. in fact the documentation is hard to get around and doesn't appear to be logically organized. perhaps it's just me though? I'd definitely appreciate some help on this feature. also can people reassign keyboard layouts on NVDA? I'd love to make it more like jaws if possible. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Darren, Oh, absolutely. That's why I use Linux as my primary operating system these days. The cost of computer hardware has come down, most Windows software is reasonably priced, but the cost of adaptive tech such as screen readers and OCR programs like Openbook remain extremely high in contrast. For a Linux user the Orca screen reader comes with the OS, the way Voiceover comes with Mac, and there are free OCR solutions such as Easy OCR which is free as well. I don't see continuing to pay for Jaws, Openbook, Window-Eyes, etc for the prices they are charging when there are cheaper alternatives available. In addition to Linux I've been looking at investing in an Apple computer. Mac OS really has come up in the world of accessibility and the way accessibility is integrated into the OS plus the stability of the software is certainly something to consider. I think if Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Dolphin, etc aren't careful they may have their socks blown off by Apple because having to purchase a screen reader for $1,000 quid just isn't financially feasible or necessary these days. /Especially, not with access technology coming down in price for non-Windows platforms. So the sooner more people realize that, get free of their high priced access software in favor of less expensive alternatives, the more those companies will have to come down in price or risk of going out of business. Just look at the popularity of NVDA which is definitely the cost effective solution for Windows. I think the only reason NVDA isn't more popular is many people are dissatisfied with the screen review which is a bit clunky compared to Jaws or Window-Eyes, but is functional once a person figures out how to use it correctly. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi Alex. I had a very similar experience as far as school goes. I'm afraid though, while I do agree braille still has some minority uses, I'm not entirely convinced by the if the power went arguement. Under that reasoning, well shouldn't we all also stop using our electric ovens and learn to cook over wood fires? The same goes for washing machines, electric dryers, and just about anything else. If we took this arguement to it's logical conclusion, well maybe we ought to stop cooking our food in case we were ever without the means to make fire. In fact I'm pretty sure that back when the first proto humaan had the bright idea of throwing a pointy stick at their prey someone said ug ug! this spear bad! if throw spear from distance, how we learn to run fast after mammoth! what we do when have no spears? ug ug! Okay, this is probably a little extreme, but you see the point. We can only adapt to the current situation we're in, and the technology we have before us, sinse if we start playing the what if game we could be here forever. Btw I'll also add on a practical level, if we were! in an appocalypse situation we'd also be without the means to make braillers, so we'd better also all learn to use a stylus :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi Alex, Well,i don't know if I necessarily agree with your end of the world scenario, since it seems rather far fetched, but I would agree that all our so-called technology requires power. I have found myself in the situation where we have a bad storm where the power goes out for several hours, and I'm without a computer and all the things that make my life what it is. I'm stuck with using an mp3 player that uses batteries, or I need to dig out a braille magazine and read it until the power comes back on. Either way there are times when a simple power failure because of a storm can instantly reduce our access to e-books, internet, audio books, and all the other things we take for granted. Where braille will always be there power or no power. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi list, I have been reading this thread with interest. speaking as someone who grew up using braille for the hole of what in the UK is known as primary school, and in the US as elementary school as well as for part of my secondary or highschool education I certainly think braille will not be as widely used as it once was in the coming years. I actually only started learning how to touch type at the age of 12, and didn't start using computers in education full time til about the age of 15 or 16, there use greatly helped me do things faster and of course the internet definitely increased access to information, I well remember the challenges of trying to read huge textbooks or locate sections within them quickly. However, I think as has already been stated Braille still has a use in a minority of areas such as learning languages etc. One thing I don't think has been covered though is the fact that through our increasing reliance on technology and the decline in the use of braille we are in some ways inccreasing our dependence on the sighted world dramatically. I say this, because all our technology we use, computers etc relies on power, now lets imagine that tomorrow the world ends and the lights go out. That then puts an end to pretty much any electronic technology, no more ebooks, no more e mails, no more texting from your mobile device of choice. In that situation, sighted people will be able to pick up print books for there reading needs, and pens or pencils for communicating or just keeping diaries or records. Those blind people who know braille will still have methods of accessing information and writing information independent of sighted people, whereas those who don't know braille will be extremely reliant on sighted people for reading and writing. I also might be totally wrong about this, but I am sure I read about a blind judge in South Africa who helped the apartheid resistance by passing information in Braille, it was either that or Nazi resistance, I am sure a bit of googling could find the information. Just as a side note, I am in the UK, and I have found it difficult to get repairs done to my brailler, I phoned the local blind society and a few other organisations, but none knew of anyone who could help me, and it will be a real nuisance to pack it up, address it and send it to the rnib to see if they can make repairs to it. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to braille on a card that was two thick that has made it jam, but I was only previously using it to write a few birthday and christmas cards, so I am wondering if its really worth me getting it fixed. The point I am simply trying to make is that the skills for maintaining equipment seem to be lacking, I mean you would think a blind society would know of people locally or nearer than the RNIB who could make repairs for me. these are just my thoughts, Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Dark, lol, your message made me smile, the part about the early humans. To respond to it, if we are playing the what if game, if we had an apocalypse we also wouldn't have the equipment for making frames and styluses lol. I suppose your right though, in an apocalypse I suspect almost all blind people would probably struggle to adapt, and almost certainly starve to death. MM, interesting concept for a game perhaps? I guess I just think that communication is so important that we shouldn't turn our backs on a non technical means of both reading and writing, after all how many blind people speak from the pages of history before braille? How many could set there thoughts down without help? The answer, none. Even great poets like John Millton were reliant on other people for setting down there words and reading them back. The important thing about braille over other skills that use technology is that some of us could probably adapt, and at a pinch learn to cook on fires etc, whereas we definitely couldn't adapt and learn to use a pen for writing at any great length, at least not those who have been blind since birth. Though I have heard of cases where people who lost there sight later in life have been able to carry on writing with a pen and the aid of rubber bands. It also goes without saying we definitely couldn't access print material in a post apocalyptic world, and at least to my way of thinking braille would be the only sensible efficient way of reading independent of sighted people in that situation. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi tom Yeah certainly if I was relying on a laptop this is true. However the iPad lasts for so long you wouldn't believe. Also I have 2 battery packs called iCruisers which are fantastic. I took them on a 2 week boating trip a couple months ago and I used them to charge my phone when I had need of it. I never used a plug in the wall once in the whole of the 2 weeks what's more I didn't completely discharge both cruisers either. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 August 2012 16:37 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays Hi Alex, Well,i don't know if I necessarily agree with your end of the world scenario, since it seems rather far fetched, but I would agree that all our so-called technology requires power. I have found myself in the situation where we have a bad storm where the power goes out for several hours, and I'm without a computer and all the things that make my life what it is. I'm stuck with using an mp3 player that uses batteries, or I need to dig out a braille magazine and read it until the power comes back on. Either way there are times when a simple power failure because of a storm can instantly reduce our access to e-books, internet, audio books, and all the other things we take for granted. Where braille will always be there power or no power. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Alex Wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi list, I have been reading this thread with interest. speaking as someone who grew up using braille for the hole of what in the UK is known as primary school, and in the US as elementary school as well as for part of my secondary or highschool education I certainly think braille will not be as widely used as it once was in the coming years. I actually only started learning how to touch type at the age of 12, and didn't start using computers in education full time til about the age of 15 or 16, there use greatly helped me do things faster and of course the internet definitely increased access to information, I well remember the challenges of trying to read huge textbooks or locate sections within them quickly. However, I think as has already been stated Braille still has a use in a minority of areas such as learning languages etc. One thing I don't think has been covered though is the fact that through our increasing reliance on technology and the decline in the use of braille we are in some ways inccreasing our dependence on the sighted world dramatically. I say this, because all our technology we use, computers etc relies on power, now lets imagine that tomorrow the world ends and the lights go out. That then puts an end to pretty much any electronic technology, no more ebooks, no more e mails, no more texting from your mobile device of choice. In that situation, sighted people will be able to pick up print books for there reading needs, and pens or pencils for communicating or just keeping diaries or records. Those blind people who know braille will still have methods of accessing information and writing information independent of sighted people, whereas those who don't know braille will be extremely reliant on sighted people for reading and writing. I also might be totally wrong about this, but I am sure I read about a blind judge in South Africa who helped the apartheid resistance by passing information in Braille, it was either that or Nazi resistance, I am sure a bit of googling could find the information. Just as a side note, I am in the UK, and I have found it difficult to get repairs done to my brailler, I phoned the local blind society and a few other organisations, but none knew of anyone who could help me, and it will be a real nuisance to pack it up, address it and send it to the rnib to see if they can make repairs to it. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to braille on a card that was two thick that has made it jam, but I was only previously using it to write a few birthday and christmas cards, so I am wondering if its really worth me getting it fixed. The point I am simply trying to make is that the skills for maintaining equipment seem to be lacking, I mean you would think a blind society would know of people locally or nearer than the RNIB who could make repairs for me. these are just my thoughts, Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
Hi Dark, Point well taken. The sad fact of the matter is that the majority of people living today lack basic survival skills. When there was the big hype over y2k in the late 1990's a survey was done to determine how many people had the basic survival skills to live several days or even months without power. Not surprisingly the survey showed that a huge majority of the U.S. population were woefully unprepared for any kind of crisis longer than a couple of days let alone months. As I recall the survey asked about very basic items like a box of matches to start a cooking fire or to light a candle, candles for light, a months supply of canned foods, jugs of water, etc. Turns out that the average person living in major cities like New York City and Chicago didn't have a box of matches or a candle. Can food supplies were what one would expect. That is maybe enough for one or two weeks tops. Just enough to hold the family over until the next run to the store. Not exactly hope for an extended crisis. Bottom line, I think should something that bad ever hit the United States, United Kingdom, or any other industrialized society the lack of being able to read books etc via the computer would be the least of a blind person's worries. Basic survival would be paramount over being able to read books in braille, via e-book, or whatever. I should know as I've been there before. What I mean by that is about 8 years ago we had a snow storm that knocked out the power county wide. It was out for about eight days in the middle of winter. Fortunately, at the time I was living next door to my dad, and while we didn't have power the gas was still working. That allowed us to have heat from the gas heaters, heat up a bowl of soup on the gas stove, and kept us alive. Not only that my step mom likes to collect scented candles and we were burning them all week long for light and to read by in the evenings etc. Obviously, we survived the ordeal, but we were lucky. We happened to be better prepared for that crisis. I can remember listening to news reports on the radio where firemen and county rescue workers were picking up families and taking them to relief shelters to keep them alive simply because they weren't prepared to survive that kind of crisis. They relied too much on modern conveniences, and when it was gone they had absolutely nothing to fall back on. Cheers! On 8/7/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. I had a very similar experience as far as school goes. I'm afraid though, while I do agree braille still has some minority uses, I'm not entirely convinced by the if the power went arguement. Under that reasoning, well shouldn't we all also stop using our electric ovens and learn to cook over wood fires? The same goes for washing machines, electric dryers, and just about anything else. If we took this arguement to it's logical conclusion, well maybe we ought to stop cooking our food in case we were ever without the means to make fire. In fact I'm pretty sure that back when the first proto humaan had the bright idea of throwing a pointy stick at their prey someone said ug ug! this spear bad! if throw spear from distance, how we learn to run fast after mammoth! what we do when have no spears? ug ug! Okay, this is probably a little extreme, but you see the point. We can only adapt to the current situation we're in, and the technology we have before us, sinse if we start playing the what if game we could be here forever. Btw I'll also add on a practical level, if we were! in an appocalypse situation we'd also be without the means to make braillers, so we'd better also all learn to use a stylus :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
It actually sounds like a great game! If only I knew lua if anyone is willing to code the game or something... -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Alex Wallis Sent: 07 August 2012 16:39 To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays Hi Dark, lol, your message made me smile, the part about the early humans. To respond to it, if we are playing the what if game, if we had an apocalypse we also wouldn't have the equipment for making frames and styluses lol. I suppose your right though, in an apocalypse I suspect almost all blind people would probably struggle to adapt, and almost certainly starve to death. MM, interesting concept for a game perhaps? I guess I just think that communication is so important that we shouldn't turn our backs on a non technical means of both reading and writing, after all how many blind people speak from the pages of history before braille? How many could set there thoughts down without help? The answer, none. Even great poets like John Millton were reliant on other people for setting down there words and reading them back. The important thing about braille over other skills that use technology is that some of us could probably adapt, and at a pinch learn to cook on fires etc, whereas we definitely couldn't adapt and learn to use a pen for writing at any great length, at least not those who have been blind since birth. Though I have heard of cases where people who lost there sight later in life have been able to carry on writing with a pen and the aid of rubber bands. It also goes without saying we definitely couldn't access print material in a post apocalyptic world, and at least to my way of thinking braille would be the only sensible efficient way of reading independent of sighted people in that situation. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Alex. Actually on the historical contributions of blind people there are more than you think, blind poets and engineers, indeed under some historical interpretations Homer, author of the most ancient griek epics like the odisy was said to be blind, sinse obviously in a society which prized aural tradition and debate the inability to write wasn't such a loss. Even talking in appocalypse terms though, there is a further problem with braille, namely that most people cannot read it. I actually was originally given typing lessons on a manual typewriter, and would still be able to type which would let me communicate even if I were reliant upon another person to read it, this would let me write and exchange views with others even without electricity, though frankly if there were an appocalypse I'd probably commit suicide, sinse I'd hate to be at the mercy of anyone simply through lack of vision, and I don't think I'd want to live in a world without literature and music anyway. Then again, I freely admit that because of the view I have of death and more to the point my lack of fear of death, suicide in an intolerable situation is to me a far more rational choice than it would probably be to others. Before however this gets too philosophical I'll stop. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
HiYohandy, Unfortunately, there is no easy way to remap or reassign keys in NVDA. NVDA's screen review commands are based on the old ASAP screen reader rather than Jaws which is a big reason why it is unfamiliar to you. However, once you get use to it the screen review isn't that bad. It even makes sense in its own way. Here is a quick overview. Read Prior Line: numpad-7 Read Current Line: numpad-8 Read Next Line: Numpad+9 Read Prior Word: numpad-4 Read Current Word: numpad-5 Read Next Word: Numpad+6 Read Prior Character: numpad-1 Read Current Character: numpad-2 Read Next Character: Numpad+3 Read Entire Document: numpad-plus That's just the basics. Usually what I do if I want to review a screen in a text adventure is I'll press insert+7 on the numpad to route the review cursor to the caret, and then use numpad-7 until I get to the top of the window and use numpad-9 to read through the text line by line. As I said earlier using NVDA is a bit like the old ASAP screen reader for Dos, and fortunately I had some experience with it so the review commands weren't totally new to me. However, I'd be happy to help people further with NvDA off list. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: Screen review is the reason I don't use NVDA to be honest. I've no idea how to use the feature, and it doesn't appear to be well documented. in fact the documentation is hard to get around and doesn't appear to be logically organized. perhaps it's just me though? I'd definitely appreciate some help on this feature. also can people reassign keyboard layouts on NVDA? I'd love to make it more like jaws if possible. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
actually a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago, when we had literally three foot of snow and I couldn't get out, still worse the heating completely broke, though luckily the power was still on. I now have several packs of tins in my outhouse just in case, and several candles (though mostly for my scented oil burner). The thing that would drive me nuts however in that situation would be lack of available stuff to do once batteries on electronic devices such as my laptop and portable cd player ran out. Of course, this would seem a perfect situation for braille, but where the heck in my comparatively small flat am I going to store enough braille books to read? :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Actually dark your wrong, from what I can remember as to who wrote the odisy or the audesy as we would call it. I believe it was Homer who wrote the Iliad, in fact I know so, and I think Virgil worte the Odisy as well as the Aeneid. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I don't mind. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 07 August 2012 18:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays Hi Alex. Actually on the historical contributions of blind people there are more than you think, blind poets and engineers, indeed under some historical interpretations Homer, author of the most ancient griek epics like the odisy was said to be blind, sinse obviously in a society which prized aural tradition and debate the inability to write wasn't such a loss. Even talking in appocalypse terms though, there is a further problem with braille, namely that most people cannot read it. I actually was originally given typing lessons on a manual typewriter, and would still be able to type which would let me communicate even if I were reliant upon another person to read it, this would let me write and exchange views with others even without electricity, though frankly if there were an appocalypse I'd probably commit suicide, sinse I'd hate to be at the mercy of anyone simply through lack of vision, and I don't think I'd want to live in a world without literature and music anyway. Then again, I freely admit that because of the view I have of death and more to the point my lack of fear of death, suicide in an intolerable situation is to me a far more rational choice than it would probably be to others. Before however this gets too philosophical I'll stop. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5183 - Release Date: 08/07/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
I thought ben that Virgil transcribed the odisy, sinse Virgil was writing at the time of the Romans which was a good thousand years after the original, though I could be wrong. I'll have to ask my friend tomorrow who's a doctor of archaeology, unless Tom happens to know. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, ,testerswith Braille displays Actually dark your wrong, from what I can remember as to who wrote the odisy or the audesy as we would call it. I believe it was Homer who wrote the Iliad, in fact I know so, and I think Virgil worte the Odisy as well as the Aeneid. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I don't mind. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 07 August 2012 18:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays Hi Alex. Actually on the historical contributions of blind people there are more than you think, blind poets and engineers, indeed under some historical interpretations Homer, author of the most ancient griek epics like the odisy was said to be blind, sinse obviously in a society which prized aural tradition and debate the inability to write wasn't such a loss. Even talking in appocalypse terms though, there is a further problem with braille, namely that most people cannot read it. I actually was originally given typing lessons on a manual typewriter, and would still be able to type which would let me communicate even if I were reliant upon another person to read it, this would let me write and exchange views with others even without electricity, though frankly if there were an appocalypse I'd probably commit suicide, sinse I'd hate to be at the mercy of anyone simply through lack of vision, and I don't think I'd want to live in a world without literature and music anyway. Then again, I freely admit that because of the view I have of death and more to the point my lack of fear of death, suicide in an intolerable situation is to me a far more rational choice than it would probably be to others. Before however this gets too philosophical I'll stop. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5183 - Release Date: 08/07/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Dark, just curious, what engineers have there been in the past who are blind? I can't name that many historical famous blind people. I know of I think a handful, Louis Braille obviously, John Millton, then there was the king of bohemia think it was in the 12th or 13th century. To give him credit, he lead his army into battle and was promptly cut down unsurprisingly. I don't think I can think of any others off hand. Regarding your view of death, I think I two wouldn't want to be around after an apocalypse, i'm not quite sure how I would end things, unfortunately all the so called painless methods take skill to get right, and I certainly wouldn't want to hang myself. I look on death as like going to sleep, as I never dream, so for me sleep is pretty much like ceasing to exist. We are only around for a short time, the world got on fine before I existed, and will do again when I am gone, also I never had any awareness before I existed, so death shouldn't be that bad. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Dark, You are correct. Homer wrote the Odyssey as well as the Iliad. Virgil transcribed the Odyssey into Latin about 800 years after the original was written. I don't have the exact dates committed to memory here, but most scholars believe the Odyssey was committed to paper around the late 7th century B.C. Of course, there is the endless debates who Homer was, weather Homer really existed, etc but that's way beyond the scope of this list. :D Cheers! On 8/7/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I thought ben that Virgil transcribed the odisy, sinse Virgil was writing at the time of the Romans which was a good thousand years after the original, though I could be wrong. I'll have to ask my friend tomorrow who's a doctor of archaeology, unless Tom happens to know. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, , testerswith Braille displays
Hi Ben, On the contrary you are not correct. The Odyssey is one of two epic poems believed to be written by Homer. According to Wikipedia it was written during the 8th century B.C. Here is the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey if you want more facts about the Odyssey. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: Actually dark your wrong, from what I can remember as to who wrote the odisy or the audesy as we would call it. I believe it was Homer who wrote the Iliad, in fact I know so, and I think Virgil worte the Odisy as well as the Aeneid. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I don't mind. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some, testerswith Braille displays
I also aggree with you alex I am a braille user havn't used it in ages though. A major push is going for braille use. The major issue is that electronic braillers are not computers. Sure basic stuff can be done, sertain functions email office maybe a little gaming and maybe some other bits and bobs. However this is the same reason why I have not bothered with mac stuff. Everything runs on windows. braille devices don't run modern windows that sightlings use therefore we are excluded into our own branch. You can't run everything either. At the same time you can't run some stuff one 1 system and other stuff on another. You can't just load any old program on a braille or apple device. Maybe its because I am a tech that I wander about this. For a simple user it is fine. I used to use an old keynote and to be honest I had my blindy language based program and the sightlings had their own language. Thats fine but it means we are not normal. When I started using what others used I felt more included and free. If I had a problem I knew I didn't have to go to a special place and pay loads for support on a special program which was only for the blind. I don't want to be excluded again. Maybe linux or apple should be the answer I don't know. At 01:45 p.m. 7/08/2012 +0100, you wrote: Hi list, I have been reading this thread with interest. speaking as someone who grew up using braille for the hole of what in the UK is known as primary school, and in the US as elementary school as well as for part of my secondary or highschool education I certainly think braille will not be as widely used as it once was in the coming years. I actually only started learning how to touch type at the age of 12, and didn't start using computers in education full time til about the age of 15 or 16, there use greatly helped me do things faster and of course the internet definitely increased access to information, I well remember the challenges of trying to read huge textbooks or locate sections within them quickly. However, I think as has already been stated Braille still has a use in a minority of areas such as learning languages etc. One thing I don't think has been covered though is the fact that through our increasing reliance on technology and the decline in the use of braille we are in some ways inccreasing our dependence on the sighted world dramatically. I say this, because all our technology we use, computers etc relies on power, now lets imagine that tomorrow the world ends and the lights go out. That then puts an end to pretty much any electronic technology, no more ebooks, no more e mails, no more texting from your mobile device of choice. In that situation, sighted people will be able to pick up print books for there reading needs, and pens or pencils for communicating or just keeping diaries or records. Those blind people who know braille will still have methods of accessing information and writing information independent of sighted people, whereas those who don't know braille will be extremely reliant on sighted people for reading and writing. I also might be totally wrong about this, but I am sure I read about a blind judge in South Africa who helped the apartheid resistance by passing information in Braille, it was either that or Nazi resistance, I am sure a bit of googling could find the information. Just as a side note, I am in the UK, and I have found it difficult to get repairs done to my brailler, I phoned the local blind society and a few other organisations, but none knew of anyone who could help me, and it will be a real nuisance to pack it up, address it and send it to the rnib to see if they can make repairs to it. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to braille on a card that was two thick that has made it jam, but I was only previously using it to write a few birthday and christmas cards, so I am wondering if its really worth me getting it fixed. The point I am simply trying to make is that the skills for maintaining equipment seem to be lacking, I mean you would think a blind society would know of people locally or nearer than the RNIB who could make repairs for me. these are just my thoughts, Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
I use nvda all the time but you are right on that one. I mostly use programs with standard controls or stuff that natively communicates with nvda like the beta of eamon deluxe, however any complex stuff I still have a good reader like supernova or hal. There are still a few things itunes for example and some office apps that still need a comercial reader. At 08:59 a.m. 7/08/2012 -0400, you wrote: Screen review is the reason I don't use NVDA to be honest. I've no idea how to use the feature, and it doesn't appear to be well documented. in fact the documentation is hard to get around and doesn't appear to be logically organized. perhaps it's just me though? I'd definitely appreciate some help on this feature. also can people reassign keyboard layouts on NVDA? I'd love to make it more like jaws if possible. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Darren, Oh, absolutely. That's why I use Linux as my primary operating system these days. The cost of computer hardware has come down, most Windows software is reasonably priced, but the cost of adaptive tech such as screen readers and OCR programs like Openbook remain extremely high in contrast. For a Linux user the Orca screen reader comes with the OS, the way Voiceover comes with Mac, and there are free OCR solutions such as Easy OCR which is free as well. I don't see continuing to pay for Jaws, Openbook, Window-Eyes, etc for the prices they are charging when there are cheaper alternatives available. In addition to Linux I've been looking at investing in an Apple computer. Mac OS really has come up in the world of accessibility and the way accessibility is integrated into the OS plus the stability of the software is certainly something to consider. I think if Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Dolphin, etc aren't careful they may have their socks blown off by Apple because having to purchase a screen reader for $1,000 quid just isn't financially feasible or necessary these days. /Especially, not with access technology coming down in price for non-Windows platforms. So the sooner more people realize that, get free of their high priced access software in favor of less expensive alternatives, the more those companies will have to come down in price or risk of going out of business. Just look at the popularity of NVDA which is definitely the cost effective solution for Windows. I think the only reason NVDA isn't more popular is many people are dissatisfied with the screen review which is a bit clunky compared to Jaws or Window-Eyes, but is functional once a person figures out how to use it correctly. Cheers! On 8/7/12, Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi tom, But you see this is the problem, computer tech prices have come down dramatically over the years as you've pointed out, but the likes of screen readers, braillers, displays etc haven't. they've stayed the same almost or gone up in price and the companies wonder why people aren't buying? Also the likes of fs and gw micro are going to get into even more trouble now that apple is really coming up in the world of accessibility. To ditch windows is 1 of my next major financial projects to be honest with you. The sooner I can be rid of windows and go over to apple exclusively the better. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Knick. I'm intreagued by the idea, but as I said I'm a little concerned of the lack of braille displays issue, sinse it means essentially that your game will have a 1500 pound system requirement which not everyone will have. I loved the idea of flight commander indeed you might remember me mailing you on the subject some years ago, but that would've been accessible to everyone. - Original Message - Any thoughts on this front? Beware the grue! Dark.To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Cc: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Thanks I think dotris is worth per-sewing I won't be forcing anyone to play it. Nick. Sent from my iPhone On 5 Aug 2012, at 22:46, Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nick, Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. No one has the right to blame you for having changing priorities or life circumstances, especially if that no one has never released an accessible game for the blind community himself. You never took a pre-order, and you never released a public demo you didn't finish. Do what makes you happy. If that's programming accessible games, you have the support of 100% of the community--even the vocal ones who like to bring up past projects. After all, it's not as though they won't play your game; they just want to make some noise in the meantime. You have a fine idea for a project which has the potential to break new ground in accessible gaming. Don't let anyone diminish that. All the best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Nick Adamson Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 11:32 AM To: Trouble Cc: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testers with Braille displays. And that sort of comment is why I stopped wanting to write software in my spare time. Sent from my iPhone On 5 Aug 2012, at 15:24, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Is this going to be like the flight sim you dropped, because you was done with school? or is this one for real? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Dark, Certainly the fact the game will require an expensive braille display is a bit of a downer, but I think over all it is a worthwhile project. I've played Tetris before I lost my sight and the audio versions really didn't offer the same kind of experience. I think what Nick is doing here is the best possible way to represent that type of game because you get a tactile overview of the screen which IMO will makemore sense to a blind player than an audio one. Look at it this way. Not only could Nick represent different blocks using different braille letters he also can make them meaning full. the letter g might represent a green block, a letter r might represent a red block, a y for yellow, and in this way the blocks are different from a tactile standpoint and would also represent the various colors too. However, coming back to the issue of braille displays and games in general it is something we should actively look at because it comes in handy for a number of games. I know of a number of word and puzzle games where I'd like to be able to view the board with a braille display. Something like Wheel of Fortune would be ideal for a braille display because rather than having the board spoken it could be displayed on a braille display which I'd fine more meaningful as I can examine the board at my own pace, look at it letter by letter, and give me time to think about what letters might be missing where with a spoken interface it tends to shoot it all at me all at once without much context. Cheers! On 8/6/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Knick. I'm intreagued by the idea, but as I said I'm a little concerned of the lack of braille displays issue, sinse it means essentially that your game will have a 1500 pound system requirement which not everyone will have. I loved the idea of flight commander indeed you might remember me mailing you on the subject some years ago, but that would've been accessible to everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Tom. I'm not using letters as such, more the shape. because of ownership reasons i can't make it to close to the original, but hopefully it'll have all the things that make tetris fun with out getting me sued. if this works thenit does present a number of avenues of investigation, sudoko could be interesting, hangman and that sort of thing. but not just pussel type games, how about a rasing game where you can feel the track infront of the car, that one would take some real thinking about. braille displays could also inhance existing games. how about lone wolf with things like speed and direction on it or trucker with the stats displayed. the real problem is the one you pointed out in the first place, its got a limited user base so probably not commercially viable to make games that depend on having a display. the possibilities are quite interesting, who knows what i'll try after dotris. Thanks. Nick Sent from my iPhone On 7 Aug 2012, at 00:12, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Certainly the fact the game will require an expensive braille display is a bit of a downer, but I think over all it is a worthwhile project. I've played Tetris before I lost my sight and the audio versions really didn't offer the same kind of experience. I think what Nick is doing here is the best possible way to represent that type of game because you get a tactile overview of the screen which IMO will makemore sense to a blind player than an audio one. Look at it this way. Not only could Nick represent different blocks using different braille letters he also can make them meaning full. the letter g might represent a green block, a letter r might represent a red block, a y for yellow, and in this way the blocks are different from a tactile standpoint and would also represent the various colors too. However, coming back to the issue of braille displays and games in general it is something we should actively look at because it comes in handy for a number of games. I know of a number of word and puzzle games where I'd like to be able to view the board with a braille display. Something like Wheel of Fortune would be ideal for a braille display because rather than having the board spoken it could be displayed on a braille display which I'd fine more meaningful as I can examine the board at my own pace, look at it letter by letter, and give me time to think about what letters might be missing where with a spoken interface it tends to shoot it all at me all at once without much context. Cheers! On 8/6/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Knick. I'm intreagued by the idea, but as I said I'm a little concerned of the lack of braille displays issue, sinse it means essentially that your game will have a 1500 pound system requirement which not everyone will have. I loved the idea of flight commander indeed you might remember me mailing you on the subject some years ago, but that would've been accessible to everyone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Nick, Well, the problem with using a braille display in a game like Lone Wolf is that the game is in real time. Some times it requires making a split decision and I'd rather not take my hands of the keyboard to look at the braille display when I need access to something quick. In my opinion braille displays are more useful in a turn based or text based environment when it doesn't require rapid timing and quick responces. That is why it wouldn't work in say a racing game. You would have to have one hand on the racing wheel and have the other hand on the braille display feeling the symbols as they change in real time. As soon as the braille left arrow comes up you'd have to turn the wheel left, and if you saw a right arrow come up on the display turn it right. I don't know if the braille display is really good for that sort of feedback in real time. Although, I do like the idea in general of braille tactile turn signals. Dots 2, 4, and 6 would make a left arrow shape while dots 1, 3, and 5 would make a right arrow shape.A full cell might represent a straight away. Its easy to make a tactile map of the track, but not practical for looking at it while driving at 190 MPH down the track. :D As for myself I have been thinking of developing games that output text as well as audio. I could, for example, write a Hangman game that displays the text on screen. A person would use their screen reader for spoken feedback and/or braille support. If I want to have sounds I can do that too. However, a text interface here would make it accessible to both blind and def-blind players as well as sighted players. It seems to me the perfect type of game for braille support. Cheers! On 8/6/12, Nick Adamson n...@ndadamson.com wrote: Hi Tom. I'm not using letters as such, more the shape. because of ownership reasons i can't make it to close to the original, but hopefully it'll have all the things that make tetris fun with out getting me sued. if this works thenit does present a number of avenues of investigation, sudoko could be interesting, hangman and that sort of thing. but not just pussel type games, how about a rasing game where you can feel the track infront of the car, that one would take some real thinking about. braille displays could also inhance existing games. how about lone wolf with things like speed and direction on it or trucker with the stats displayed. the real problem is the one you pointed out in the first place, its got a limited user base so probably not commercially viable to make games that depend on having a display. the possibilities are quite interesting, who knows what i'll try after dotris. Thanks. Nick --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Dark, Well, as with everything else in life I think how useful a braille display is depends on what a person uses it for. I've found plenty of times where a braille display comes in handy. Especially, when it comes to proofreading my e-mails, writing code, or just reading an e-book rather than using speech. Let's take text adventures for example. I prefer using a braille display because not only can I read the text descriptions etc at my own leisure I can also learn the spelling of certain names, places, and objects in the game. In other words it is the closest I can come to actually seeing the text on screen, and braille has helped me become a better speller over all. That said, your opinion is not unusual today. There are a number of blind and low vision people who feel exactly as you do that braille is outdated, that it isn't well suited for reading, and beyond labeling their DVD collection and so on they don't use it. That's fine, but I personally feel it is still a valuable asset for me. Although, I suppose that is one reason I get very annoyed at people who don't properly proofread their e-mails. Sometimes when reading an e-mail using my favorite synth I don't notice a word is misspelled because it sounds right. However, come along with a braille display and those words stick out like a sore thumb, and I have to wonder if the author is either lazy or just illiterate. I know that sounds a bit judgmental, but being able to identify if a word is correctly spelled is easier to do with braille than with speech. Cheers! On 8/5/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Ryan, Can you send one of those displays over here? :D. I'm afraid I disagree on the rehab front, sinse in the Uk it depends basically on the generosity of the individual counsel during time in education, and then access to work will only buy you things that access your work directly 9assuming your in work). so I'm afraid I disagree that there are more out there to be supported. Until they become A, cheaper than buying a small car, and B, able to show more information, I'm not convinced on their value for gaming, indeed I'm becoming rather disolussioned with braille as a writing medium full stop, and that from someone who has read braille sinse he was five. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Tom. I think the specific applications of braille are just getting fewer and fewer. For instance, up until recently i'd have agreed that braille was needed to lable items like dvds or cooker controls, but the pen friend can actually do that far more quickly and easily than in braille. Ditto with text reading, sinse for me, even if I want a spelling of a name, it would be far quicker to just find it with hal's virtual curser and have Hal spell it than it would be in braille. The only times I have wished for a braille display are for spacial information, such as roguelikes, but even then, a braille display has such a small cell count they'd be dam hard to play and get any sort of overview. As I said, I've heard of some developements in braille display technology that were planned to produce larger models that could create full on tactile maps or boards for games, and in those circumstances I could see braille as an advantage, but until such a thing is made and effectively braille is sinked with modern technology, I'm not sure how much longer it will persist as a medium, particularly sinse anything written in braille can only be read by another blind person. For spelling, while I see your point, there is another arguement, sinse I noticed myself that after switching from grade two braille to typing, there were so many words I just couldn't spell, words like little or necessity, because I was used to using contractions, and it was only spell checking documents that taught me differently. Indeed, on the spelling front my own philosophy is simply if it reads okay when i check it through, then for informal stuff like mails and forum posts that's fine. I get irritated at people's grammar, on occasion because of lack of reading through their correspondance, and occasionally there are! errors in spelling that could've been fixed if they'd used a screen reader correctly. For formal occasions, such as my thesis or some more serious things I write, that is what a spell checker is for. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
See, I've been saying the Europeans and especially the Brittish have it so good! I mean their RNIB DAISY audiobooks don't have any DRM, and now this about the Free Braille displays? That's just amazing! - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Nick, Thankfully you're not developing a side scroller, arcade game, or FPS title, so you don't have to worry about that. Just because very little use has been made of Braille displays in the past 8 years doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a go. I would venture a guess that there are actually quite a few Braille displays out there. Rehab agencies purchase them for a lot of people here in the states, and some countries overseas--especially in Europe--will actually give free Braille displays to blind people. My wife and I own two between the two of us, and I have access to four more of them at work. Audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well. Music audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well either. The spatial implications of a tactile Tetris would be phenomenal to work with. I think you have a winner of an idea here. Good luck to you in your efforts. All the best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:38 PM To: Nick Adamson; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testers with Braille displays. Hi Nick, Most of the accessible games out there use speech and/or audio for feedback. The reason is that braille displays are extremely expensive,and most blind computer users don't own one. The other reason is that there has been a huge migration from text based gaming to real time audio gaming and in a lot of cases the action moves too fast to review the information via braille. Speech feedback is much much quicker in an arcade, FPS, or side-scroller so most accessible game developers don't bother with braille display support. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
Hi Ryan, Can you send one of those displays over here? :D. I'm afraid I disagree on the rehab front, sinse in the Uk it depends basically on the generosity of the individual counsel during time in education, and then access to work will only buy you things that access your work directly 9assuming your in work). so I'm afraid I disagree that there are more out there to be supported. Until they become A, cheaper than buying a small car, and B, able to show more information, I'm not convinced on their value for gaming, indeed I'm becoming rather disolussioned with braille as a writing medium full stop, and that from someone who has read braille sinse he was five. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Nick, Thankfully you're not developing a side scroller, arcade game, or FPS title, so you don't have to worry about that. Just because very little use has been made of Braille displays in the past 8 years doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a go. I would venture a guess that there are actually quite a few Braille displays out there. Rehab agencies purchase them for a lot of people here in the states, and some countries overseas--especially in Europe--will actually give free Braille displays to blind people. My wife and I own two between the two of us, and I have access to four more of them at work. Audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well. Music audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well either. The spatial implications of a tactile Tetris would be phenomenal to work with. I think you have a winner of an idea here. Good luck to you in your efforts. All the best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:38 PM To: Nick Adamson; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testers with Braille displays. Hi Nick, Most of the accessible games out there use speech and/or audio for feedback. The reason is that braille displays are extremely expensive,and most blind computer users don't own one. The other reason is that there has been a huge migration from text based gaming to real time audio gaming and in a lot of cases the action moves too fast to review the information via braille. Speech feedback is much much quicker in an arcade, FPS, or side-scroller so most accessible game developers don't bother with braille display support. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays.
As for cheaper than a small car, work purchased a 40-cell Braille display for me for $2700. That's cheaper than most small cars I've seen, unless you want a clunker. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 11:03 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Ryan, Can you send one of those displays over here? :D. I'm afraid I disagree on the rehab front, sinse in the Uk it depends basically on the generosity of the individual counsel during time in education, and then access to work will only buy you things that access your work directly 9assuming your in work). so I'm afraid I disagree that there are more out there to be supported. Until they become A, cheaper than buying a small car, and B, able to show more information, I'm not convinced on their value for gaming, indeed I'm becoming rather disolussioned with braille as a writing medium full stop, and that from someone who has read braille sinse he was five. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testerswith Braille displays. Hi Nick, Thankfully you're not developing a side scroller, arcade game, or FPS title, so you don't have to worry about that. Just because very little use has been made of Braille displays in the past 8 years doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a go. I would venture a guess that there are actually quite a few Braille displays out there. Rehab agencies purchase them for a lot of people here in the states, and some countries overseas--especially in Europe--will actually give free Braille displays to blind people. My wife and I own two between the two of us, and I have access to four more of them at work. Audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well. Music audio Tetris has been tried; it didn't work very well either. The spatial implications of a tactile Tetris would be phenomenal to work with. I think you have a winner of an idea here. Good luck to you in your efforts. All the best, Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 10:38 PM To: Nick Adamson; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] N A Soft is back and I'm looking for some testers with Braille displays. Hi Nick, Most of the accessible games out there use speech and/or audio for feedback. The reason is that braille displays are extremely expensive,and most blind computer users don't own one. The other reason is that there has been a huge migration from text based gaming to real time audio gaming and in a lot of cases the action moves too fast to review the information via braille. Speech feedback is much much quicker in an arcade, FPS, or side-scroller so most accessible game developers don't bother with braille display support. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
