[Audyssey] game development
Hi. Well. I then don't have to deal with cros os, and trying to check, only cross browser. So will use html 5 and javascript, unless, some one else comes up with some thing better. Maybe asp dot net. If any one has developed a mobile web based game for the blind and the sighted. Would like to know about that. Thanks. Marvin. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Devana is written using php and javascript. It's accessible, and it's also opensource. The version that's up for download needs some serious help to be 100% accessible, but it's doable, it just takes a great deal of time tracking down all the places tags need to be added in the code to make it work properly. However, it is possible, I made it happen with a previous version of the code. The reasofn I mention that, is because with a hosted game like devana, making a mobile blind friendly version is as simple as having your app launch a web view, and connect to the server hosting the game, and, poof, instant accessible mobile version of your game. Cheating, yes, I know, but that's exactly what some of the game developers do. On Feb 22, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: Hi. Well. I then don't have to deal with cros os, and trying to check, only cross browser. So will use html 5 and javascript, unless, some one else comes up with some thing better. Maybe asp dot net. If any one has developed a mobile web based game for the blind and the sighted. Would like to know about that. Thanks. Marvin. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Out of interest, have you posted this question on audiogames.net? There are a few developers who hang out there because they prefer forums to mailing lists. Maybe one of them will throw another option for you to consider. Scott On 2/23/15, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Well. I then don't have to deal with cros os, and trying to check, only cross browser. So will use html 5 and javascript, unless, some one else comes up with some thing better. Maybe asp dot net. If any one has developed a mobile web based game for the blind and the sighted. Would like to know about that. Thanks. Marvin. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game development questions
Hi Marvin, Hmm..I hadn't thought of that, but yes Javascript is definitely an option here. I'm not a big fan of Javascript as a game programming language, but it should do what you want it to do here. Although, I can not claim to be any kind of expert with it as I only have limited experience with it personally. As for C# it is not necessary to put a space between the C and the number sign. In fact it looks a little weird the way you have written it since C# should be written with the C and number sign together as I have written it. Cheers! On 2/21/15, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Want to use any os or mobile platform Mike fox, who is on the progra...@freelists.org. Suggested I should do it html 5 and java script. So thinking of doing that. Did not think about java. Will ask my lectuer. Well. Yes, working my way through c # material. Completed the visual studio and c# materials. Then will do the first assignment,which will be a c # application. Then once done, will then work through the wpf materials, then assignment for that, then get to the mobile programming subject. So. Mike fox, suggested I do html 5 and java script. Which will get around, all issues. Thanks. Marvin. Ps: want to target any os, windows mobile,ios, android, linux, mac, even blackberry, as it will just use html 5 and java script. Apart from different browser settings, etc. So. How to make it accessible for the blind and visually impaired. He sent me a couple of games already floating around, and also a audio tutorial for the wrappers for audio for html 5. Thanks. Any other insights would be great. Will be web based, html 5, and java script, and can do this in visual studio community edition 2013. Will ask my lectuer, if it can be done in java. Do have some with using java. And have got eclipse. Marvin.experience --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game development questions
Hi Marvin, I'm afraid you are going to have to get a lot more specific for anyone to answer your questions here. To begin with what mobile platform or platforms are you intending to target. Knowing this will greatly help us give advice pertinent to your questions. For example, you mention working with text to speech. The problem here is that working with text to speech on iOS, Android, and Windows Mobile are all completely different, no one size fits all solution, so either you have to pick one specific platform to target or design a wrapper around each text to speech API and trigger the right one depending on which platform is being used. Sound is similarly going to differ based on target platform. There isn't a one size fits all solution here for audio API. At least not if you are planning on using C#. If you have to write a web based game I'd suggest Java using the Java Sound API as it is better equipped for what you are trying to do. C# is a great programming language, but it isn't the right tool for this particular job. Java would be far more suited to this kind of project. That said, if you have to use C# I'd say focus on Windows mobile as that would be the proper environment for C# development. Cheers! On 2/19/15, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I am a blind programming student doing a certificate iv in programming from http://www.upskilled.edu.au and they use http://www.lynda.com video training, and they are redesigning their site for screen readers, and will be one of the beta testers, once they redesign. Okay, for one of my programming subjects, to do a mobile application. So working on and thinking about doing a web based accessible space invaders game. So I have visual studio 2013 community edition on windows 8.1 64 bit enterprise, running on a Toshiba satellite pro c-50-a machine. And using jaws 16 pro. So. I did have eyesight when I was younger. Just turned 50 last week. Now. I remember playing space invaders. So. How would I go about doing the sound, and also, a function to turn on the text to speech, as it needs to be web based, accessible on any mobile device, and also visually appealing to sighted users. Any ideas. Working my way through c #, and have just done the visual studio material. And then only wpf subject to get through, then to do the first subject in the programming cluster. First subject was research writing a research paper, and a procurement paper, and three screen readers, jaws, nvda, window-eyes. And got a pass for that. Marvin. Ps: once handed up the first assignment, then will work through the next section, working with xml, then the mobile application subject.evaluated --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] game development questions
Hi. I am a blind programming student doing a certificate iv in programming from http://www.upskilled.edu.au and they use http://www.lynda.com video training, and they are redesigning their site for screen readers, and will be one of the beta testers, once they redesign. Okay, for one of my programming subjects, to do a mobile application. So working on and thinking about doing a web based accessible space invaders game. So I have visual studio 2013 community edition on windows 8.1 64 bit enterprise, running on a Toshiba satellite pro c-50-a machine. And using jaws 16 pro. So. I did have eyesight when I was younger. Just turned 50 last week. Now. I remember playing space invaders. So. How would I go about doing the sound, and also, a function to turn on the text to speech, as it needs to be web based, accessible on any mobile device, and also visually appealing to sighted users. Any ideas. Working my way through c #, and have just done the visual studio material. And then only wpf subject to get through, then to do the first subject in the programming cluster. First subject was research writing a research paper, and a procurement paper, and three screen readers, jaws, nvda, window-eyes. And got a pass for that. Marvin. Ps: once handed up the first assignment, then will work through the next section, working with xml, then the mobile application subject.evaluated --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] game development questions
Hi. Want to use any os or mobile platform Mike fox, who is on the progra...@freelists.org. Suggested I should do it html 5 and java script. So thinking of doing that. Did not think about java. Will ask my lectuer. Well. Yes, working my way through c # material. Completed the visual studio and c# materials. Then will do the first assignment,which will be a c # application. Then once done, will then work through the wpf materials, then assignment for that, then get to the mobile programming subject. So. Mike fox, suggested I do html 5 and java script. Which will get around, all issues. Thanks. Marvin. Ps: want to target any os, windows mobile,ios, android, linux, mac, even blackberry, as it will just use html 5 and java script. Apart from different browser settings, etc. So. How to make it accessible for the blind and visually impaired. He sent me a couple of games already floating around, and also a audio tutorial for the wrappers for audio for html 5. Thanks. Any other insights would be great. Will be web based, html 5, and java script, and can do this in visual studio community edition 2013. Will ask my lectuer, if it can be done in java. Do have some with using java. And have got eclipse. Marvin.experience --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Game Development, Accessibility, and a Future worth Fighting For
Hi Dakotah,, Agree with you totally on this, although I have no idea what Indy developers earn, I'm pretty sure it's not enough to live off and definitely nowhere near as much as a programmer working full time for a corporate company I know a sighted friend who developed a sighted game for IOS and it definitely didn't make him rich , yeah sure people downloaded it and he made a little cash but nowhere near the kind of money he makes in his day job , but he did the game more for fun than profit. yes like you said audio games is a nitch market which does mean a small customer base, but this is also a positive as pretty much any good game that is brought out most people that play audio games will hear about it as unlike the main stream indie market with thousands of games being released all the time any new game is easily over looked and difficult to get people to play, whereas the audio games market small that it is through lists like this and audio games forums most people will hear about the game and if its got a demo give it a try and I think you can't get that kind of exposure in the main stream market due to the quantity of games being produced , and of course if you can get people to play the demo and the price is right people will buy it, think the proof is in Jeremy's email where he said he made $12,000 out of swamp and yes I know this isn't enough to live off but it shows blind people will pay for a good game Just an afterthought after my above ranting, please don't any developers take this the wrong way and as if I am having a go at developers, as its not at all I think the work all developers of audio games do is fantastic and there are some audio games I play time and time again and marvel at the work put into these games and take my hat off to each and every developer putting his or her time into creating these games, I just wanted to point out some of the positive side of audio game programming and on that note think both Jason (from entombed) and Jeremy (from swamp and many others too) are both sighted developers (apologies if I have that incorrect( but I'm pretty sure both have said in email comments how much they enjoy programing for our nitch market since the people and feedback is so much more positive than the feedback from main stream games where feedback is more often than not only given when people have something negative to say Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 12:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Game Development, Accessibility, and a Future worth Fighting For We have had much discussion, of late, on a topic we usually discuss thoroughly about every year, sometimes every few months. That topic is game development, its costs, its profits, its hazards. We resort to comparisons with the major game studios, comparisons with major mainstream games we have encountered or heard about. I have had, finally, a clarifying thought, and I intend that it reach all of the blind players and developers of audiogames that it possibly can. I have two discrete, separate topics. First, the fact that developers of games for the blind, by extension audiogames, by extension games in general don't make much money from it. Second, we are a niche market, at this point, primarily due to lack of awareness, lack of exposure, and lack of confidence. First, Developers of audio games don't make living wages. However, neither do developers of most of the games out there for sighted folks. Mojang, the people who made the popular indie game Minecraft, may be rolling in the dosh, but they're a remarkable, phenomenal story, I'm not saying that you have to work for a triple A publisher: Electronic Arts, etc. to make good money, but what I am saying is that we should remember that we're indie developers, that we play indie games. When games for the blind in general, and audiogames in specific, came to be a thing, Indie wasn't a word at all associated with games. Now, especially because of the ease of entrance into the mobile space and the presence of tremendous online markets for PC and Mac, most of the games out there are Indie games. For people unfamiliar with the term, this means they are developed by an independent individual or small team. They aren't made by huge organizations, giant studios, or wealthy individuals. I think that this is a necessary perspective when considering how much we might make by developing software for blind gamers. The second part of this is the new revolution in the mainstream gaming world. Game audio in general is a lot more useful and a lot more important than it was. I couldn't play popular Bioware title Mass Effect in its entirety, but I could play one of the minigames, scanning planets, perfectly well. I could identify, with apparently startling accuracy, direction and distance of enemies. I can locate enemies
Re: [Audyssey] Game Development, Accessibility, and a Future worth Fighting For
Hi Dakotah, You know I was literally just about to write a message very similar to yours, but in response to Valiant. While his note almost exactly reflects my story of late, I agree with your sentiments here one hundred percent! Not sure if everyone knows here, but after my work with Audio Quake, (Jedi Quake) Josh (from Draconis) approached me about working with them. Another audio game company that you all know, also approached me but I had already agreed to join Draconis. Because of my Audio Quake and Draconis experience, I realized that I could write a mobile app which was very important to me. It is a GPS app called Breadcrumbs. LookTel found out about it, purchased it from me and then hired me to work on it, in addition to the other LookTel projects. This really ties both your and Valiant's notes together in my opinion, as I felt it was important to share my above story so that the members of our community can realize that we all have mad skills which we can use to help ourselves and to also contribute to the world. Yes, I'm not developing games per se, but I am working on projects which benefit this community. I consider myself blessed every day to be able to do this and be well-payed for it. It's so very important that people not take no for an answer, and just try as much as you can; do as much as you can. You may not realize that you have talents that people want. You absolutely do though. I cannot emphasize this enough! :) I never went to school for coding. I supported myself in the entertainment industry, modeling, teaching guitar / music theory, writing, etc. so I never expected to find myself working as a professional software developer. I must say that I am so glad that I am! :) -And, I have many in this community to thank for it; Matthew and Sebby (with Audio Quake) Josh (with Draconis) Thomas (with USA Games) and of course the LookTel team for believing in me and inviting me to be involved with them. Every single one of you rocks! As Dakotah said, this is not idealism talking, this is real life. Stories like mine actually happen and they happen to people like us in this community. The opportunities we have now are much much greater than ever before. One developer (for very little money, all things considered) can write an app, and get it on the App Store or Google Play Store etc for example and actually make money with it, reach thousands (possibly millions) of people and become known this way. You can literally touch lives this way. You can make a real difference for people in the world. I wrote my app because I needed it. -And there was nothing like it out there, and I thought others might like it. I did not wait for anyone else to do it. What I did not know, I learned. There are many people in this community with incredible skills and talents. Some use them for hacking / cracking. Some use them for game-development. Some use them for other things. My point is that we can contribute. We can improve not only our own lives but the lives of the people around us and those of the wider communities of which we are a part. When we help each other, we help ourselves. to bring this back to gaming, sure, we all would like to see more audio games. Maybe some of us cannot contribute much money to such projects but we all can contribute something, whether it be time, expertise, other resources etc. If you do not wait for others to do things for you, you may be surprised at what you find you can do. Conversely, if you really cannot do something, do not be afraid to find someone who can, and find out what you can offer to them that they might need, so that you both benefit. Does this make sense? Sometimes the old saying is quite true, Necessity is the mother of invention. :) Okay, that's enough from me for now. I hope this note helps someone. I wish you all a lovely weekend and happy holiday season! Cheers! Cara --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 18, 2014, at 5:52 PM, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: We have had much discussion, of late, on a topic we usually discuss thoroughly about every year, sometimes every few months. That topic is game development, its costs, its profits, its hazards. We resort to comparisons with the major game studios, comparisons with major mainstream games we have encountered or heard about. I have had, finally, a clarifying thought, and I intend that it reach all of the blind players and developers of audiogames that it possibly can. I have two discrete, separate topics. First, the fact that developers of games for the blind, by extension audiogames, by extension games in general don't make much money from it. Second, we are a niche market, at this point, primarily due to lack of awareness, lack of exposure, and lack of confidence. First, Developers of
[Audyssey] Game Development, Accessibility, and a Future worth Fighting For
We have had much discussion, of late, on a topic we usually discuss thoroughly about every year, sometimes every few months. That topic is game development, its costs, its profits, its hazards. We resort to comparisons with the major game studios, comparisons with major mainstream games we have encountered or heard about. I have had, finally, a clarifying thought, and I intend that it reach all of the blind players and developers of audiogames that it possibly can. I have two discrete, separate topics. First, the fact that developers of games for the blind, by extension audiogames, by extension games in general don't make much money from it. Second, we are a niche market, at this point, primarily due to lack of awareness, lack of exposure, and lack of confidence. First, Developers of audio games don't make living wages. However, neither do developers of most of the games out there for sighted folks. Mojang, the people who made the popular indie game Minecraft, may be rolling in the dosh, but they're a remarkable, phenomenal story, I'm not saying that you have to work for a triple A publisher: Electronic Arts, etc. to make good money, but what I am saying is that we should remember that we're indie developers, that we play indie games. When games for the blind in general, and audiogames in specific, came to be a thing, Indie wasn't a word at all associated with games. Now, especially because of the ease of entrance into the mobile space and the presence of tremendous online markets for PC and Mac, most of the games out there are Indie games. For people unfamiliar with the term, this means they are developed by an independent individual or small team. They aren't made by huge organizations, giant studios, or wealthy individuals. I think that this is a necessary perspective when considering how much we might make by developing software for blind gamers. The second part of this is the new revolution in the mainstream gaming world. Game audio in general is a lot more useful and a lot more important than it was. I couldn't play popular Bioware title Mass Effect in its entirety, but I could play one of the minigames, scanning planets, perfectly well. I could identify, with apparently startling accuracy, direction and distance of enemies. I can locate enemies and follow my dog around in Fable II, a mainstream roleplaying game made by Microsoft/Lionhead Studios. Many games now offer, or rely, on audial cues to tell players something important is coming. This means we are approaching a point of choice. We are approaching an important crossroads. If we stop treating ourselves as a niche in which nobody is interested and start trying to actually get our games out there, maybe we can become a little more mainstream ourselves. I'm not just being idealistic. Do you guys think that every player of Swamp is blind? I and my friends haven't played in a while, but I used to get my sighted wife, and two of my sighted best friends involved with that one. We had such good times. The reason is that Swamp was immersive. It wasn't riddled with beeps, boops, clicks, and other obvious blindness related stuff. What about the Somethin' Else games: Papa Sangre 1 and 2, The Nightjar, and Audio Defense? Are those blind games or are they audio games? Is every player blind or can every player hear? Even Entombed, an obvious game which is fantastic by our standards but rather lackluster by the standards of mainstream games of ten years ago or many indie games today, was enjoyed by several of my friends. I suggest that we are a niche market, at least in part, because we're used to being a niche market. How many games out there run with absolutely awful graphics, and sighted people love them. Steam, Valve's online game database and platform, contains truly thousands of games like these. Even popular entries from the well-known developers Choice of Games are now on Steam, and those are so old school it's cool! As a side note, I have to offer a little advice, especially when considering the demographics of the supposedly niche market we are in. We have to stop comparing our works to major titles like Final Fantasy. We also have to stop pricing our games like them. When an Indie developer can sell their so so RPG for $5 to $10, we can't justify tripling that. Why? Because our developers are also indie developers. If we continue to expect to be a niche, then that's all we'll be. Instead of trying to convince fat cats and major studios that our few thousand blind buyers would make it worth their time to put in the few tweaks necessary to make their multi-million dollar games playable, let's start by asking the indie developers, the folks who, like our own gamemakers, are hoping for a few extra buys to make Christmas just a bit more special, to change their mindset for future projects. Let's get the word out there about our games, try to get noticed, try to advocate for something that will actually bridge the gap. Back briefly to game audio, and
Re: [Audyssey] game development
I won't use any non-essential Windows stuff except from DirectX. So, I won't use .NET. Maybe later when it becomes even more common. Further, I found that when Dev-C++ can compile something it ain't necessarily perfect code. When I moved to Visual C++, my whole code became buggy. Now it'll compile warningless (which is great), but this might stop some beginners. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development Hi Davy, Sometimes Visual C++ can generate clueless errors, but most of the time the errors make sense. The thing is if you are first learning the fundimentals of C++ fine go and use Devc++, but it's not going to help you with the .NET libs which modern Windows apps now use. Let's face it .NET Framework 2.0/3.0 is the reality, and older Windows APIs like MFC are in the toilet. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi Thomas, Yes, actually all programming languages even Basic have strict punctuation and spelling rules. BFN Jim C programmers don't have the BASIC instincts. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Even though it's a strict language I do really like C++ (and Visual C++ 8, which is used to build your programs). - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development Hi Charles, Right. Seriously everyone, languages such as C++ have strict punctuation rules that must be followed, or the app will not even compile let alone run. Strings of text must be surrounded by quotation markes, end of lines must be terminated with cemmi-colens, commas are used to make logical line breaks, braces are used to start and end blocks of code, etc... Most languages C++, C#, Java, etc use the same punctuation rules so it is necesary to use them properly. Charles Rivard wrote: For some programming, you will need to know and use punctuation. Starting to work on it now, in every day use, will help a great deal. -- If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi Davy, yeah, C++ is probably my second favorite language. C# i nicer as it i les complicated, but I still do my fair share of C++ coding under Linux and C# for Windows. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Oh, I want to say this in case someone is going to try out C++... I won't start with Visual Studio (the development environment), because it can drive one crazy with clueless errors. I'd start with some easier and less strict tool like Dev-C++, which is certainly not as powerful but still very nice. Maybe someone will find this useful when he/she reads it in the archives or whatever. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development Hi Davy, yeah, C++ is probably my second favorite language. C# i nicer as it i les complicated, but I still do my fair share of C++ coding under Linux and C# for Windows. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi Davy, Sometimes Visual C++ can generate clueless errors, but most of the time the errors make sense. The thing is if you are first learning the fundimentals of C++ fine go and use Devc++, but it's not going to help you with the .NET libs which modern Windows apps now use. Let's face it .NET Framework 2.0/3.0 is the reality, and older Windows APIs like MFC are in the toilet. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi Charles, Right. Seriously everyone, languages such as C++ have strict punctuation rules that must be followed, or the app will not even compile let alone run. Strings of text must be surrounded by quotation markes, end of lines must be terminated with cemmi-colens, commas are used to make logical line breaks, braces are used to start and end blocks of code, etc... Most languages C++, C#, Java, etc use the same punctuation rules so it is necesary to use them properly. Charles Rivard wrote: For some programming, you will need to know and use punctuation. Starting to work on it now, in every day use, will help a great deal. -- If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi Jamie, The best web service for programming education out there is http://safari.oreilly.com Jamie Coady wrote: hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Thanks I will give it a go. Thanks - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development Hi Jamie, The best web service for programming education out there is http://safari.oreilly.com Jamie Coady wrote: hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] game development
Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game development Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
For some programming, you will need to know and use punctuation. Starting to work on it now, in every day use, will help a great deal. -- If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. - Original Message - From: Jamie Coady [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game development Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
descent into madness seems to be run off python. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game development Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
Hi; Check out: http://www.blindprogramming.com They have some tutorials to get you started; but they are a bit out of date. What you most likely want is C#, VB2005, or C++. C# is easy to work with; it is from Microsoft. It has a small learning curve, but all programming languages do. It is really well supported by DirectX; the library that handles playing sounds. Visual basic is also by Microsoft; it has more keywords rather than symbols, such as C# or C++. It is not as supported by DirectX, but a lot of the accessible game developers use it anyway. C++ is the most difficult language; it gives you a lot of power, and a lot of chances to really mess up. It is the language that video game developers use. DirectX is by Microsoft; it is not a language but a set of libraries that help pan, fade and play sounds. It can do much more; it has libraries for input, sound, and video. It also has a networking component. You can get C# or Visual Basic compilers (a compiler turns code in to an executable) from Microsoft's website. Please ask any more questions if you have them. Sean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie Coady Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:47 PM To: Josh; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game development Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] game development
thanks i will give it a go smile. - Original Message - From: Sean Mealin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org; 'Josh' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development Hi; Check out: http://www.blindprogramming.com They have some tutorials to get you started; but they are a bit out of date. What you most likely want is C#, VB2005, or C++. C# is easy to work with; it is from Microsoft. It has a small learning curve, but all programming languages do. It is really well supported by DirectX; the library that handles playing sounds. Visual basic is also by Microsoft; it has more keywords rather than symbols, such as C# or C++. It is not as supported by DirectX, but a lot of the accessible game developers use it anyway. C++ is the most difficult language; it gives you a lot of power, and a lot of chances to really mess up. It is the language that video game developers use. DirectX is by Microsoft; it is not a language but a set of libraries that help pan, fade and play sounds. It can do much more; it has libraries for input, sound, and video. It also has a networking component. You can get C# or Visual Basic compilers (a compiler turns code in to an executable) from Microsoft's website. Please ask any more questions if you have them. Sean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie Coady Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:47 PM To: Josh; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game development hi know any one know of where i can get tutoriels to help me learn programming and also the programme its self please thanks - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: [Audyssey] game development Hi, Has anyone developed an audio game using python? It seems like python may be easier to use than visual basic. But I don't know how good its direct-x features are. Josh email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL: kutztownstudent skype: jkenn337 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] Game development was Sryth question
Hi Don and all, This is a bit off topic for this particular list, but since many of you are interested in the subject of game development I'll answer yourquestions so that all of us are on the same page. Smile. As for obtaining Visual Studio Express 2005 you can download and install the compilers and IDEs for free from http://www.microsoft.com/vstudio/express As a Window Eyes user myself I can't answer your question about Jaws accessibility, but Window Eyes 5.5 does quite well with the IDE out of the box with no sets/scripts. Although I made some set files to improve access in a few areas. For Jaws users you will need to experiment and find out how accessible it is to Jaws without scripts. As for some pointers I have started writing my code in notepad rather than the IDE that ships with Visual Studio. Reason is Visual Studio does allot of changing colors, highliting, have error messages marking mistakes, which might be helpful but drives screen readers mad. What I do is I write my code in notepad, open the IDE link the file to my project, and then compile, and debug using the IDE, but the actual major coding is done in Windows notepad. Hth. Don Voyles wrote: Hi Tom! I have a question, where can I get the c-sharp.net program for programming and do I need to get a patch for jaws to make it work? Also, is there any other advice you can give me on using this software program? Thank You and Regards!! ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi everyone; I am a few days behind on email, so that is why I am replying to this so late. Just so people know; there is a list dedicated to stuff like this; check out http://lists.agdev.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/agdev-newbies Sean Mealin -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward [mailto:Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: None To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Rachel, Yes, I think C#.net, (called C-Sharp,) is a good starter language. I'll explain a bit about myself and why I feel that way. When I was in college taking Computer Science courses I took a course in basic C++ and an advanced C++ course. I found that the language was powerful, but there is allot of knolege needed to write a simple Windows application. If you were to write something in C++ an esential book to read would be Windows Programming by Microsoft press. The book is something like 1000 or 1200 pages long and some of the code you need is dificult for a beginner is extremely complicated. In 2001/2002 Microsoft decided to come out with their .NET platform, and one of the new languages was C#.NET. One of the things that has made C#.NET popular amung amature and professional programmers is Microsoft has simplified many basic tasks for drawing buttons, Windows, and other controls. They used the Visual form editor from Visual Basic, and gave it the power of a C++/Java style language without all the complication involved with it. Now, days using C#.NET just go to your project menu and tell it to add a new Windows form, and it generates one for you. Want to add a new class go to projects ask it to add a class and it will, and then you can modify the generated class to your needs. If you want to add a button, timer, listbox, etc go to the toolbox drop one on to your form, and modify it to your needs. It speeds up development at the same time simplifying things for you. One of the powers of C#.NET and even VB.NET is you don't need to know allot of info on how Windows works to write good apps. All you need to know is what classes are in what framework dll files, and you can then create what is known as an object to access the properties in that class. For example, lets assume you have a simple form called window. Look how easy it is in C#.NET to change the width and height of the window using objects and built in classes. window.Height = 300; window.Width = 300; Our object is called window. The Height and Width variables belong to window, and you can change them thus actually effecting the width and height of the window being shown. Pretty simple and cool right? Another reason I suggest going with C#.NET is it's growing support from Microsoft as well as professional and amature developers. At one time Microsoft DirectX use to come with Visual Basic 6 and C++ examples. Well, since DirectX 9.0 and later the only two languages now officially documented and supported is C++ and C#.NET, and there is very little to no official support for VB.NET although it can work with DirectX 9 if you fight with it and know what you are doing. Since C#.NET has been released to the public in 2002 there have been a handful of C#.NET books written about game programming, and only one that I know of for VB.NET, and the one VB.NET book was terrible at best. To ice the cake, as it were, when Kickstart DirectX 9 came out to show off the new features for DirectX 9 it was done in C#.NET not VB.NET or C++. That really says support for C#.NET is growing and the Visual Basic languages are slowly in decline. The final point is that on non Windows operating systems such as Mac OS and Linux they use a .NET Framework called mono. If memory serves me correctly it can run almost any precompiled .NET binary, but the mono compiler will only except C#.NET source code if someone on those operating systems was doing .NET development. So by and large in 2003 when I opened U.S.A. Games I saw the simplicity, the power, etc in C#.NET and chose it as my game development language. I have never regreted my decision. I know enough about other languages to write my games in VB, C++, Java, etc however C#.NET has proven not to disappoint me, and I really enjoy it. I can easily recommend it to anyone interested in writing accesible games. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
hey shaun i could give you msvs98 (visual studio 6 enterprise) if you should really want it, just getting it to you though. that's if you want to learn vb or c++ or something. that does have some rather useful tools with it. regards, damien - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Not to mention all the downloads. I have msxml I think, not sure. I have the directx that comes with xp and the latest mdac from windows update. So thats like 9mb gone. But dx9 is 50mb, dotnet 1 is 30 and dotnet 2 is also 30 so 110mb. Then there are the packs for both which come to another 30mb maybe less, so 160mb for all that. I havn't had any issues on any system with all those loaded. However I'm always upgrading things. I have every kit on the devkit damon has collected. I have autoit, python with pygame, pysonic, pymidi pytts and pyaa. My latest addition is mde from nasa that does math programming and sound speech and other things. Ofcause with all that and other stuff both my hard drives are about full, both internal and external only 40gb. I'm probably going to buy a 500gb external at the end of the year to pour all my mp3s and other stuff on. And well for a while that should releave the situation. At 08:30 a.m. 5/09/2006, you wrote: thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Rachel, Yes, I think C#.net, (called C-Sharp,) is a good starter language. I'll explain a bit about myself and why I feel that way. When I was in college taking Computer Science courses I took a course in basic C++ and an advanced C++ course. I found that the language was powerful, but there is allot of knolege needed to write a simple Windows application. If you were to write something in C++ an esential book to read would be Windows Programming by Microsoft press. The book is something like 1000 or 1200 pages long and some of the code you need is dificult for a beginner is extremely complicated. In 2001/2002 Microsoft decided to come out with their .NET platform, and one of the new languages was C#.NET. One of the things that has made C#.NET popular amung amature and professional programmers is Microsoft has simplified many basic tasks for drawing buttons, Windows, and other controls. They used the Visual form editor from Visual Basic, and gave it the power of a C++/Java style language without all the complication involved with it. Now, days using C#.NET just go to your project menu and tell it to add a new Windows form, and it generates one for you. Want to add a new class go to projects ask it to add a class and it will, and then you can modify the generated class to your needs. If you want to add a button, timer, listbox, etc go to the toolbox drop one on to your form, and modify it to your needs. It speeds up development at the same time simplifying things for you. One of the powers of C#.NET and even VB.NET is you don't need to know allot of info on how Windows works to write good apps. All you need to know is what classes are in what framework dll files, and you can then create what is known as an object to access the properties in that class. For example, lets assume you have a simple form called window. Look how easy it is in C#.NET to change the width and height of the window using objects and built in classes. window.Height = 300; window.Width = 300; Our object is called window. The Height and Width variables belong to window, and you can change them thus actually effecting the width and height of the window being shown. Pretty simple and cool right? Another reason I suggest going with C#.NET is it's growing support from Microsoft as well as professional and amature
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
I think so damon. At 07:44 p.m. 5/09/2006, you wrote: ah. yes i suppose you're right, i don't have much experience in proper programming. i suppose that's why i struggle a lot. then again i should know more as time goes on as i learn new technique and things. do any of you guys think i'll make it? regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, That is true. DirectX is better and easier to program with for games and multimedia. I think you are getting things confused do to your personal lack of programming experience. So let me clarify things. Let us say you are writing a game. You are going to want to use DirectX for your graphics, sound, input handling, etc... However, DirectX may not be all that is needed. Let us say you need some settings dialogs for setting game settings etc... Then, you will likely need stuff from the win32 API to build the dialog boxes and to save and restore games etc... So in all what I am saying use DirectX in your C++ applications, but there is still some Win32 stuff you may need in the game as well. x-sight interactive wrote: hmm? interesting. when i brought that comment up a few months ago i got replies back saying that direct x was a lot better and easier to program with. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Tom! I have been listening to this conversation and I find it very interesting. I have thought about taking computer science and your explanation has greatly encouraged me. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, I'm probably getting a tad bit off topic from game development, but I feel this is an important point. Are you aware of the different levels of programming languages? In computer science we place all programming languages in one of three catagories: low level, intermediate level, and high level. Which ranks them not only by complexity but design and function. An example of a low level programming language is assembly. It is perhaps one of the most complex languages to know and learn, but is at the very core of operating systems, and is extremely powerful in it's relm of low level operations such as system drivers, kernels, etc... However, C and it's sister language C++ also can be used to write low level code and do low level operations. C is at the very core of Linux which is what the Linux kernel is written in. Then, we have the intermediate level languages. I would say the majority of C++ applications fall in the relm of intermediate level. It's not as complex as assembly but light years more powerful and complicated than VB. Finally, you come to the high level languages. Languages like VB, C#.NET, Java, fall in the high level catagory. They are much easier to learn then lower level languages, and high level operations such as a notepad program, scripting a web page, calculating a few numbers, an audio game, etc... The languages can't do low level stuff, but are easy to learn and very effective at what they do in their high level operations. My point in saying all this is when you call C++ a proper programming language, it is the understatement of the century. C++ happens to be able to be used in high level operations suchas C++.NET all the way down to low level operations like kernels, drivers, and run operating systems. Everyday devices such as cell phones, MP3 walkmans, cash registers, etc are written with C++ driving the operating systems for those devices. Simbian OS which comes on most cell phones was written in C++. So let's give C++ the title it deserves as the language of languages. It is perhaps the most flexable and powerful commonly used programming language known to man. x-sight interactive wrote: autoit is a language that is, i must admit, very limited. when making a game with autoit you have to use a COM object called comaudio, which is just as limited. it uses audiere, another limited library, to perform tasks. the only real difference between comaudio and directx is that comaudio can play encrypted and compressed sound archive files. that's really the only reason i use it, because i wouldn't know where to start with making a sound encryption algorithm and having to decrypt it for dx to play. yes, autoit is very small. vb6 is somewhat more complicated and that's what i started off with - big mistake, as there was no internal documentation, i didn't know a thing about it, and all i got were exercises to copy, not knowing how they worked or what they meant, or even what the point was of these programs. c++ is a lot more complicated, some people call it a proper language, because of the fact that you have to tell it exactly what you want it to do, where as vb and autoit use in-built functions to do all that for you. i still don't understand vb6 now, which is why i jumped straight over to c++. another c-like language you may or may not want to start off with is gentee. don't know much about that, reading docs on it at the moment, but i'm using that as a transitional language to help me understand c more. hth. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Thomas, thank you so much for your very detailed reply. sounds like your more favourable of C#.net. will have to do some investigating. :) Cheers! :) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 1/09/2006 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
this is very interesting what you write. the thing is, when i first started programming i was only taught vb6. knowing nothing at all about programming, and given no real tutorials on how it works or how to do things correctly with it, i struggled a lot with it. then one person got me into autoit. now, thanks to that, i know a little more about programming (if you've seen my dectalk scripter and timer on my site), and am now learning c++ as i said before, and it is making more and more sense as i do more and more things with autoit. i'm using a programming language similar to autoit in functionality, but similar to c in syntax as a stepping stone, and it is my aim to port all my autoit programs into c++ in the end. but i find that starting off with autoit really helped me in the programming side of things. but yes, i can understand your viewpoint on this matter also and find it very interesting. i'm sure it was you who mentioned c sharp as well - that has in-built documentation or something? maybe she'd be good starting off with that one? regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, This list has been over this somewhat before but seriously I don't feel starting with autoit is the best suggestion. You may wonder why. Here is why I feel strongly against using autoit. First, off any seriously interested game developer worth a grain of sault must know and understand object oriented programming and design. All major programming languages weather we are talking C++, C#.NET, VB.NET, Java, etc work with objects, classes, etc... Sooner or later a new developer is going to have to learn it, and it might as be earlier than later. Second, autoit isn't a programming language per say so largely what you learn using it is basicly linked to autoit, and useless if you want to branch out and learn how to write a pro programming language, learn DirectX, and you wind up learning all over again from scratch. The time spent learning and working with autoit in my personal opinion is waisted. Third, learning a real full blown programming language for games has more flexable mainstream uses. You might be writing a couple of games, and decide you want to write your own mp3 player or wav recorder. You can do that, because you have a powerful language and compiler under your fingertips. Fourth, is similar to three, but this is to drive the point home. With autoit you are locked in to specific styles of games. With a full blown programming language you can do everything from text-based up to 3D audo FPS action games with online game play, etc... Fifth, while most PC owners still are largely MS Windows-based there is a slowly growing movement of sighted and blind folks who are now using alternative solutions such as Linux as well as FreeBSD, and some using Mac OS. With such a growing movement portability is likely going to become more important in the future. In fact, portability is one of the reasons I picked C#.NET as my development language for U.S.A. Games. At some point in the future I should be able to update my Sound.cs file with open source solutions like OpenAL, and run my games on Mac OS and Linux via Mono. I'm looking at porting STFC 2.0 to Linux right now, but have been busy with working on the core features of the game core to look in to portability. Anyway, why I am writing all this is I strongly feel a new developer needs to learn good coding and practices and skills right off rather than taking shortcuts like Autoit only to find out in the end it wasn't really valuable or worth the time. Granted we all have different interests, tastes, and aspirations, but what I would like to see is the accessible game comunity to stop lingering in Autoit, VB 6, etc and begin to really get in to more complex concepts and put out some cutting edge stuff. I'm not saying this is going to happen at once, but the existing developers have sadly stopped pushing the edge of cutting edge gaming. We've got so many Space Invader type clones, but only a couple of FPS games like Shades of Doom, and SOD is still really a one of a kind. GMA Tank Commander was really the first awesome simulation combat game, but again nothing else has really come close to comparison. Why is this? Well, as I said a game developer has to start somewhere, and starting with something truly useful such as C#.NET or VB.NET right off will break the new developer in to a real programming language. After that they'll have to practice with some simple games. Even a Space Invader Clone or two. However, after that he or she should be able to cut his or her teeth in to something more complex. Maybe a FPS game. After that work up to an online game. There is a progressiont to programming and a good developer is always learning
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
autoit is a language that is, i must admit, very limited. when making a game with autoit you have to use a COM object called comaudio, which is just as limited. it uses audiere, another limited library, to perform tasks. the only real difference between comaudio and directx is that comaudio can play encrypted and compressed sound archive files. that's really the only reason i use it, because i wouldn't know where to start with making a sound encryption algorithm and having to decrypt it for dx to play. yes, autoit is very small. vb6 is somewhat more complicated and that's what i started off with - big mistake, as there was no internal documentation, i didn't know a thing about it, and all i got were exercises to copy, not knowing how they worked or what they meant, or even what the point was of these programs. c++ is a lot more complicated, some people call it a proper language, because of the fact that you have to tell it exactly what you want it to do, where as vb and autoit use in-built functions to do all that for you. i still don't understand vb6 now, which is why i jumped straight over to c++. another c-like language you may or may not want to start off with is gentee. don't know much about that, reading docs on it at the moment, but i'm using that as a transitional language to help me understand c more. hth. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Rachel D Keyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Thomas, as I said in my intro, i'm a total no-nothing when it comes to all this, at the moment anyway. Lol What are the differences in each of those program languages? And what exactly is audoit? and also, when exactly does it change from writing a visual game (for sighties) to the blindy games (audio)? In other words, Do both types of games use the same program languages to a point, or are they completely different from the start? Hope that makes sense. Cheers! :) At 10:29 AM 4/09/2006, you wrote: Hi Damien, This list has been over this somewhat before but seriously I don't feel starting with autoit is the best suggestion. You may wonder why. Here is why I feel strongly against using autoit. First, off any seriously interested game developer worth a grain of sault must know and understand object oriented programming and design. All major programming languages weather we are talking C++, C#.NET, VB.NET, Java, etc work with objects, classes, etc... Sooner or later a new developer is going to have to learn it, and it might as be earlier than later. Second, autoit isn't a programming language per say so largely what you learn using it is basicly linked to autoit, and useless if you want to branch out and learn how to write a pro programming language, learn DirectX, and you wind up learning all over again from scratch. The time spent learning and working with autoit in my personal opinion is waisted. Third, learning a real full blown programming language for games has more flexable mainstream uses. You might be writing a couple of games, and decide you want to write your own mp3 player or wav recorder. You can do that, because you have a powerful language and compiler under your fingertips. Fourth, is similar to three, but this is to drive the point home. With autoit you are locked in to specific styles of games. With a full blown programming language you can do everything from text-based up to 3D audo FPS action games with online game play, etc... Fifth, while most PC owners still are largely MS Windows-based there is a slowly growing movement of sighted and blind folks who are now using alternative solutions such as Linux as well as FreeBSD, and some using Mac OS. With such a growing movement portability is likely going to become more important in the future. In fact, portability is one of the reasons I picked C#.NET as my development language for U.S.A. Games. At some point in the future I should be able to update my Sound.cs file with open source solutions like OpenAL, and run my games on Mac OS and Linux via Mono. I'm looking at porting STFC 2.0 to Linux right now, but have been busy with working on the core features of the game core to look in to portability. Anyway, why I am writing all this is I strongly feel a new developer needs to learn good coding and practices and skills right off rather than taking shortcuts like Autoit only to find out in the end it wasn't really valuable or worth the time. Granted we all have different interests, tastes, and aspirations, but what I would like to see is the accessible game comunity to stop lingering in Autoit, VB 6, etc and begin to really get in to more complex concepts and put out some cutting edge stuff. I'm not saying this is going to happen at once, but the existing developers have sadly stopped pushing the edge of cutting edge gaming. We've got so many
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Rachel, Yes, I think C#.net, (called C-Sharp,) is a good starter language. I'll explain a bit about myself and why I feel that way. When I was in college taking Computer Science courses I took a course in basic C++ and an advanced C++ course. I found that the language was powerful, but there is allot of knolege needed to write a simple Windows application. If you were to write something in C++ an esential book to read would be Windows Programming by Microsoft press. The book is something like 1000 or 1200 pages long and some of the code you need is dificult for a beginner is extremely complicated. In 2001/2002 Microsoft decided to come out with their .NET platform, and one of the new languages was C#.NET. One of the things that has made C#.NET popular amung amature and professional programmers is Microsoft has simplified many basic tasks for drawing buttons, Windows, and other controls. They used the Visual form editor from Visual Basic, and gave it the power of a C++/Java style language without all the complication involved with it. Now, days using C#.NET just go to your project menu and tell it to add a new Windows form, and it generates one for you. Want to add a new class go to projects ask it to add a class and it will, and then you can modify the generated class to your needs. If you want to add a button, timer, listbox, etc go to the toolbox drop one on to your form, and modify it to your needs. It speeds up development at the same time simplifying things for you. One of the powers of C#.NET and even VB.NET is you don't need to know allot of info on how Windows works to write good apps. All you need to know is what classes are in what framework dll files, and you can then create what is known as an object to access the properties in that class. For example, lets assume you have a simple form called window. Look how easy it is in C#.NET to change the width and height of the window using objects and built in classes. window.Height = 300; window.Width = 300; Our object is called window. The Height and Width variables belong to window, and you can change them thus actually effecting the width and height of the window being shown. Pretty simple and cool right? Another reason I suggest going with C#.NET is it's growing support from Microsoft as well as professional and amature developers. At one time Microsoft DirectX use to come with Visual Basic 6 and C++ examples. Well, since DirectX 9.0 and later the only two languages now officially documented and supported is C++ and C#.NET, and there is very little to no official support for VB.NET although it can work with DirectX 9 if you fight with it and know what you are doing. Since C#.NET has been released to the public in 2002 there have been a handful of C#.NET books written about game programming, and only one that I know of for VB.NET, and the one VB.NET book was terrible at best. To ice the cake, as it were, when Kickstart DirectX 9 came out to show off the new features for DirectX 9 it was done in C#.NET not VB.NET or C++. That really says support for C#.NET is growing and the Visual Basic languages are slowly in decline. The final point is that on non Windows operating systems such as Mac OS and Linux they use a .NET Framework called mono. If memory serves me correctly it can run almost any precompiled .NET binary, but the mono compiler will only except C#.NET source code if someone on those operating systems was doing .NET development. So by and large in 2003 when I opened U.S.A. Games I saw the simplicity, the power, etc in C#.NET and chose it as my game development language. I have never regreted my decision. I know enough about other languages to write my games in VB, C++, Java, etc however C#.NET has proven not to disappoint me, and I really enjoy it. I can easily recommend it to anyone interested in writing accesible games. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, As I recall there are VB 6 books on blindprogramming.com as well as safari.oreilly.com. Honestly, the language isn't all that hard to learn with the proper documentation. Of course, my opinion might be a bit biast since I took Visual Basic 5 while I was in college for my CS degree, and it helps to have college level books, instructers, etc to fall back on. However, even then I didn't find it all that hard to pick up on. I don't know what you mean about C#.NET, (C-Sharp,) having built in documentation,but the .NET framework SDK you download from Microsoft does have documentation as well as example programs to work with in C#.NET, VB.NET, and even C++.NET. However, those materials are less a tootorial than a reference guide to look up certain classes, what members and variables are in a class, and some examples how to use it in your code. If you want to do any language right, correctly, you need to buy a good book from Oreilly like C# In a Nutshell or Learning C#. x-sight interactive wrote: this is very interesting what you write. the thing is, when i first started programming i was only taught vb6. knowing nothing at all about programming, and given no real tutorials on how it works or how to do things correctly with it, i struggled a lot with it. then one person got me into autoit. now, thanks to that, i know a little more about programming (if you've seen my dectalk scripter and timer on my site), and am now learning c++ as i said before, and it is making more and more sense as i do more and more things with autoit. i'm using a programming language similar to autoit in functionality, but similar to c in syntax as a stepping stone, and it is my aim to port all my autoit programs into c++ in the end. but i find that starting off with autoit really helped me in the programming side of things. but yes, i can understand your viewpoint on this matter also and find it very interesting. i'm sure it was you who mentioned c sharp as well - that has in-built documentation or something? maybe she'd be good starting off with that one? regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, I'm probably getting a tad bit off topic from game development, but I feel this is an important point. Are you aware of the different levels of programming languages? In computer science we place all programming languages in one of three catagories: low level, intermediate level, and high level. Which ranks them not only by complexity but design and function. An example of a low level programming language is assembly. It is perhaps one of the most complex languages to know and learn, but is at the very core of operating systems, and is extremely powerful in it's relm of low level operations such as system drivers, kernels, etc... However, C and it's sister language C++ also can be used to write low level code and do low level operations. C is at the very core of Linux which is what the Linux kernel is written in. Then, we have the intermediate level languages. I would say the majority of C++ applications fall in the relm of intermediate level. It's not as complex as assembly but light years more powerful and complicated than VB. Finally, you come to the high level languages. Languages like VB, C#.NET, Java, fall in the high level catagory. They are much easier to learn then lower level languages, and high level operations such as a notepad program, scripting a web page, calculating a few numbers, an audio game, etc... The languages can't do low level stuff, but are easy to learn and very effective at what they do in their high level operations. My point in saying all this is when you call C++ a proper programming language, it is the understatement of the century. C++ happens to be able to be used in high level operations suchas C++.NET all the way down to low level operations like kernels, drivers, and run operating systems. Everyday devices such as cell phones, MP3 walkmans, cash registers, etc are written with C++ driving the operating systems for those devices. Simbian OS which comes on most cell phones was written in C++. So let's give C++ the title it deserves as the language of languages. It is perhaps the most flexable and powerful commonly used programming language known to man. x-sight interactive wrote: autoit is a language that is, i must admit, very limited. when making a game with autoit you have to use a COM object called comaudio, which is just as limited. it uses audiere, another limited library, to perform tasks. the only real difference between comaudio and directx is that comaudio can play encrypted and compressed sound archive files. that's really the only reason i use it, because i wouldn't know where to start with making a sound encryption algorithm and having to decrypt it for dx to play. yes, autoit is very small. vb6 is somewhat more complicated and that's what i started off with - big mistake, as there was no internal documentation, i didn't know a thing about it, and all i got were exercises to copy, not knowing how they worked or what they meant, or even what the point was of these programs. c++ is a lot more complicated, some people call it a proper language, because of the fact that you have to tell it exactly what you want it to do, where as vb and autoit use in-built functions to do all that for you. i still don't understand vb6 now, which is why i jumped straight over to c++. another c-like language you may or may not want to start off with is gentee. don't know much about that, reading docs on it at the moment, but i'm using that as a transitional language to help me understand c more. hth. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Rachel, Yes, I think C#.net, (called C-Sharp,) is a good starter language. I'll explain a bit about myself and why I feel that way. When I was in college taking Computer Science courses I took a course in basic C++ and an advanced C++ course. I found that the language was powerful, but there is allot of knolege needed to write a simple Windows application. If you were to write something in C++ an esential book to read would be Windows Programming by Microsoft press. The book is something like 1000 or 1200 pages long and some of the code you need is dificult for a beginner is extremely complicated. In 2001/2002 Microsoft decided to come out with their .NET platform, and one of the new languages was C#.NET. One of the things that has made C#.NET popular amung amature and professional programmers is Microsoft has simplified many basic tasks for drawing buttons, Windows, and other controls. They used the Visual form editor from Visual Basic, and gave it the power of a C++/Java style language without all the complication involved with it. Now, days using C#.NET just go to your project menu and tell it to add a new Windows form, and it generates one for you. Want to add a new class go to projects ask it to add a class and it will, and then you can modify the generated class to your needs. If you want to add a button, timer, listbox, etc go to the toolbox drop one on to your form, and modify it to your needs. It speeds up development at the same time simplifying things for you. One of the powers of C#.NET and even VB.NET is you don't need to know allot of info on how Windows works to write good apps. All you need to know is what classes are in what framework dll files, and you can then create what is known as an object to access the properties in that class. For example, lets assume you have a simple form called window. Look how easy it is in C#.NET to change the width and height of the window using objects and built in classes. window.Height = 300; window.Width = 300; Our object is called window. The Height and Width variables belong to window, and you can change them thus actually effecting the width and height of the window being shown. Pretty simple and cool right? Another reason I suggest going with C#.NET is it's growing support from Microsoft as well as professional and amature developers. At one time Microsoft DirectX use to come with Visual Basic 6 and C++ examples. Well, since DirectX 9.0 and later the only two languages now officially documented and supported is C++ and C#.NET, and there is very little to no official support for VB.NET although it can work with DirectX 9 if you fight with it and know what you are doing. Since C#.NET has been released to the public in 2002 there have been a handful of C#.NET books written about game programming, and only one that I know of for VB.NET, and the one VB.NET book was terrible at best. To ice the cake, as it were, when Kickstart DirectX 9 came out to show off the new features for DirectX 9 it was done in C#.NET not VB.NET or C++. That really says support for C#.NET is growing and the Visual Basic languages are slowly in decline. The final point is that on non Windows operating systems such as Mac OS and Linux they use a .NET Framework called mono. If memory serves me correctly it can run almost any precompiled .NET binary, but the mono compiler will only except C#.NET source code if someone on those operating systems was doing .NET development. So by and large in 2003 when I opened U.S.A. Games I saw the simplicity, the power, etc in C#.NET and chose it as my game development language. I have never regreted my decision. I know enough about other languages to write my games in VB, C++, Java, etc however C#.NET has proven not to disappoint me, and I really enjoy it. I can easily recommend it to anyone interested in writing
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
hmm. interesting. ok what was c and c++ written in out of curiosity? regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, I'm probably getting a tad bit off topic from game development, but I feel this is an important point. Are you aware of the different levels of programming languages? In computer science we place all programming languages in one of three catagories: low level, intermediate level, and high level. Which ranks them not only by complexity but design and function. An example of a low level programming language is assembly. It is perhaps one of the most complex languages to know and learn, but is at the very core of operating systems, and is extremely powerful in it's relm of low level operations such as system drivers, kernels, etc... However, C and it's sister language C++ also can be used to write low level code and do low level operations. C is at the very core of Linux which is what the Linux kernel is written in. Then, we have the intermediate level languages. I would say the majority of C++ applications fall in the relm of intermediate level. It's not as complex as assembly but light years more powerful and complicated than VB. Finally, you come to the high level languages. Languages like VB, C#.NET, Java, fall in the high level catagory. They are much easier to learn then lower level languages, and high level operations such as a notepad program, scripting a web page, calculating a few numbers, an audio game, etc... The languages can't do low level stuff, but are easy to learn and very effective at what they do in their high level operations. My point in saying all this is when you call C++ a proper programming language, it is the understatement of the century. C++ happens to be able to be used in high level operations suchas C++.NET all the way down to low level operations like kernels, drivers, and run operating systems. Everyday devices such as cell phones, MP3 walkmans, cash registers, etc are written with C++ driving the operating systems for those devices. Simbian OS which comes on most cell phones was written in C++. So let's give C++ the title it deserves as the language of languages. It is perhaps the most flexable and powerful commonly used programming language known to man. x-sight interactive wrote: autoit is a language that is, i must admit, very limited. when making a game with autoit you have to use a COM object called comaudio, which is just as limited. it uses audiere, another limited library, to perform tasks. the only real difference between comaudio and directx is that comaudio can play encrypted and compressed sound archive files. that's really the only reason i use it, because i wouldn't know where to start with making a sound encryption algorithm and having to decrypt it for dx to play. yes, autoit is very small. vb6 is somewhat more complicated and that's what i started off with - big mistake, as there was no internal documentation, i didn't know a thing about it, and all i got were exercises to copy, not knowing how they worked or what they meant, or even what the point was of these programs. c++ is a lot more complicated, some people call it a proper language, because of the fact that you have to tell it exactly what you want it to do, where as vb and autoit use in-built functions to do all that for you. i still don't understand vb6 now, which is why i jumped straight over to c++. another c-like language you may or may not want to start off with is gentee. don't know much about that, reading docs on it at the moment, but i'm using that as a transitional language to help me understand c more. hth. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, First, if you are using DirectX 8 with VB.NET no wonder you are getting a crash dialog. You aren't suppose to use DirectX 8 with VB.NET. You need DirectX 9.0C SDK, and nothing earlier. Second, While it is true the entire .NET framework is large, 30 MB of libraries, bare in mind that .NET is becoming a core part of the Windows operating system, and will be included in Windows Vista as a core part of the os. So games written with .NET framework 2 should just install and run on Vista out of the box. With older operating systems like Win 98 before .NET was written naturally Microsoft has a Windows update for 98, ME, 2000 etc which upgrades them, but generally speaking it is a one time upgrade provided no new new major versions hasn't come out. FYI. .NET 2 will run v1.1 and 1.0 .NET apps provided they were not locked to an installer which searches only for a specific build number of .NET. Third, you said you have more libraries than our necessary you are cutting .NET short. Actually, what MS has done is packed everything most applications need in to a nice set of libraries which are easy to understand, program with, and bare in mind .NET apps are not a compiled binary as much as are converted to a runtime language, (MSIL.) Like Java all apps need a runtime environment which makes the application quickly portable across operating systems, devices, etc without a recompile. Packing it all in to a 30 to 50 MB runtime for portability which most developers sees is the way of the future for programs. Fourth, as for your comments about C++ only needing DirectX that isn't always true. There are allot of libraries you can include from the Win32 API in your game, and those dll files are already preinstalled as a part of the Windows os already. x-sight interactive wrote: thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, Ok??? That is a confusing question. What do you mean what were C and C++ written in? Those are programming languages not operating systems, apps, etc... That is kind of like asking what language is French made out of? Er the anser is French... Now, if you are asking what language are the C and C++ compilers written in the answer is C/C++. Once upon a time many moons ago compilers were written in assembly, but once languages like C and C++ came in to there own they were used to write the current generation of compilers. x-sight interactive wrote: hmm. interesting. ok what was c and c++ written in out of curiosity? regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
hmm? interesting. when i brought that comment up a few months ago i got replies back saying that direct x was a lot better and easier to program with. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, First, if you are using DirectX 8 with VB.NET no wonder you are getting a crash dialog. You aren't suppose to use DirectX 8 with VB.NET. You need DirectX 9.0C SDK, and nothing earlier. Second, While it is true the entire .NET framework is large, 30 MB of libraries, bare in mind that .NET is becoming a core part of the Windows operating system, and will be included in Windows Vista as a core part of the os. So games written with .NET framework 2 should just install and run on Vista out of the box. With older operating systems like Win 98 before .NET was written naturally Microsoft has a Windows update for 98, ME, 2000 etc which upgrades them, but generally speaking it is a one time upgrade provided no new new major versions hasn't come out. FYI. .NET 2 will run v1.1 and 1.0 .NET apps provided they were not locked to an installer which searches only for a specific build number of .NET. Third, you said you have more libraries than our necessary you are cutting .NET short. Actually, what MS has done is packed everything most applications need in to a nice set of libraries which are easy to understand, program with, and bare in mind .NET apps are not a compiled binary as much as are converted to a runtime language, (MSIL.) Like Java all apps need a runtime environment which makes the application quickly portable across operating systems, devices, etc without a recompile. Packing it all in to a 30 to 50 MB runtime for portability which most developers sees is the way of the future for programs. Fourth, as for your comments about C++ only needing DirectX that isn't always true. There are allot of libraries you can include from the Win32 API in your game, and those dll files are already preinstalled as a part of the Windows os already. x-sight interactive wrote: thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
hmm ok fair enough. oh and btw, most, if not all speech languages are derived from other languages, like english is derived from latin and german etc, i don't know what french is derived from but it must be derived from something *smile*. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, Ok??? That is a confusing question. What do you mean what were C and C++ written in? Those are programming languages not operating systems, apps, etc... That is kind of like asking what language is French made out of? Er the anser is French... Now, if you are asking what language are the C and C++ compilers written in the answer is C/C++. Once upon a time many moons ago compilers were written in assembly, but once languages like C and C++ came in to there own they were used to write the current generation of compilers. x-sight interactive wrote: hmm. interesting. ok what was c and c++ written in out of curiosity? regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, That is true. DirectX is better and easier to program with for games and multimedia. I think you are getting things confused do to your personal lack of programming experience. So let me clarify things. Let us say you are writing a game. You are going to want to use DirectX for your graphics, sound, input handling, etc... However, DirectX may not be all that is needed. Let us say you need some settings dialogs for setting game settings etc... Then, you will likely need stuff from the win32 API to build the dialog boxes and to save and restore games etc... So in all what I am saying use DirectX in your C++ applications, but there is still some Win32 stuff you may need in the game as well. x-sight interactive wrote: hmm? interesting. when i brought that comment up a few months ago i got replies back saying that direct x was a lot better and easier to program with. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, Yeah, but we are not talking historical roots of languages. What my point is that French is French and C++ is C++ no matter what they may have derived from. If we are looking at the history of programming languages in general C was originally designed for use on the Unix OS, and in the 1980's C was upgraded to C++ which introduced object oriented programming. Over the years several languages such as perl, C#.NET, Java, Python, etc were designed from a C/C++ base. Anyway, we have gotten way off topic, and perhaps we should be closing down this thread. Smile. x-sight interactive wrote: hmm ok fair enough. oh and btw, most, if not all speech languages are derived from other languages, like english is derived from latin and german etc, i don't know what french is derived from but it must be derived from something *smile*. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Not to mention all the downloads. I have msxml I think, not sure. I have the directx that comes with xp and the latest mdac from windows update. So thats like 9mb gone. But dx9 is 50mb, dotnet 1 is 30 and dotnet 2 is also 30 so 110mb. Then there are the packs for both which come to another 30mb maybe less, so 160mb for all that. I havn't had any issues on any system with all those loaded. However I'm always upgrading things. I have every kit on the devkit damon has collected. I have autoit, python with pygame, pysonic, pymidi pytts and pyaa. My latest addition is mde from nasa that does math programming and sound speech and other things. Ofcause with all that and other stuff both my hard drives are about full, both internal and external only 40gb. I'm probably going to buy a 500gb external at the end of the year to pour all my mp3s and other stuff on. And well for a while that should releave the situation. At 08:30 a.m. 5/09/2006, you wrote: thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Rachel, Yes, I think C#.net, (called C-Sharp,) is a good starter language. I'll explain a bit about myself and why I feel that way. When I was in college taking Computer Science courses I took a course in basic C++ and an advanced C++ course. I found that the language was powerful, but there is allot of knolege needed to write a simple Windows application. If you were to write something in C++ an esential book to read would be Windows Programming by Microsoft press. The book is something like 1000 or 1200 pages long and some of the code you need is dificult for a beginner is extremely complicated. In 2001/2002 Microsoft decided to come out with their .NET platform, and one of the new languages was C#.NET. One of the things that has made C#.NET popular amung amature and professional programmers is Microsoft has simplified many basic tasks for drawing buttons, Windows, and other controls. They used the Visual form editor from Visual Basic, and gave it the power of a C++/Java style language without all the complication involved with it. Now, days using C#.NET just go to your project menu and tell it to add a new Windows form, and it generates one for you. Want to add a new class go to projects ask it to add a class and it will, and then you can modify the generated class to your needs. If you want to add a button, timer, listbox, etc go to the toolbox drop one on to your form, and modify it to your needs. It speeds up development at the same time simplifying things for you. One of the powers of C#.NET and even VB.NET is you don't need to know allot of info on how Windows works to write good apps. All you need to know is what classes are in what framework dll files, and you can then create what is known as an object to access the properties in that class. For example, lets assume you have a simple form called window. Look how easy it is in C#.NET to change the width and height of the window using objects and built in classes. window.Height = 300; window.Width = 300; Our object is called window. The Height and Width variables belong to window, and you can change them thus actually effecting the width and height of the window being shown. Pretty simple and cool right? Another reason I suggest going with C#.NET is it's growing support from Microsoft as well as professional and amature developers. At one time Microsoft DirectX use to come with Visual Basic 6 and C++ examples. Well, since DirectX 9.0 and later the only two languages now officially documented and supported is C++ and C#.NET, and there is very little to no official support for VB.NET although it can work with DirectX 9 if you fight with it and know what you are doing. Since C#.NET has been released to the public in 2002 there have been a handful of C#.NET books written about game programming, and only one that I know of for VB.NET
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
well I have dotnet 1 and 2. It will be good if dotnet 1 and 2 are made part of windows though as well as directx 9c. One thing that would be nice would be if you had c# as part of the os. Linux has c as part of the os. Or at least a compiler. ms dos has basic. qbasic I mean. win 95 had qbasic. Would be good if win vista had c# in it. At 09:48 a.m. 5/09/2006, you wrote: Hi Damien, First, if you are using DirectX 8 with VB.NET no wonder you are getting a crash dialog. You aren't suppose to use DirectX 8 with VB.NET. You need DirectX 9.0C SDK, and nothing earlier. Second, While it is true the entire .NET framework is large, 30 MB of libraries, bare in mind that .NET is becoming a core part of the Windows operating system, and will be included in Windows Vista as a core part of the os. So games written with .NET framework 2 should just install and run on Vista out of the box. With older operating systems like Win 98 before .NET was written naturally Microsoft has a Windows update for 98, ME, 2000 etc which upgrades them, but generally speaking it is a one time upgrade provided no new new major versions hasn't come out. FYI. .NET 2 will run v1.1 and 1.0 .NET apps provided they were not locked to an installer which searches only for a specific build number of .NET. Third, you said you have more libraries than our necessary you are cutting .NET short. Actually, what MS has done is packed everything most applications need in to a nice set of libraries which are easy to understand, program with, and bare in mind .NET apps are not a compiled binary as much as are converted to a runtime language, (MSIL.) Like Java all apps need a runtime environment which makes the application quickly portable across operating systems, devices, etc without a recompile. Packing it all in to a 30 to 50 MB runtime for portability which most developers sees is the way of the future for programs. Fourth, as for your comments about C++ only needing DirectX that isn't always true. There are allot of libraries you can include from the Win32 API in your game, and those dll files are already preinstalled as a part of the Windows os already. x-sight interactive wrote: thing is though with all these .net applications is you need more libraries than are necessary. that's the only problem i find, net framework this, data access components that, microsoft xml the other, bearing in mind that on some systems, mine included, a program written in vb.net that uses direct x 8 and the net framework tends to bring up one of those crash dialogs. at least with a language like c++ the only real essential library you need, like one written in vb6, is direct x, and i don't know how you guys feel about this, but it must be the right version. if you go too early you'll be very limited, but if you go too late then it's going to be a bit of a pain for the average computer user, let's just say. of course the other thing is some people are just very cautious with upgrades, not only because of security, but privacy and compatibility also. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 4/09/2006 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Damien, This list has been over this somewhat before but seriously I don't feel starting with autoit is the best suggestion. You may wonder why. Here is why I feel strongly against using autoit. First, off any seriously interested game developer worth a grain of sault must know and understand object oriented programming and design. All major programming languages weather we are talking C++, C#.NET, VB.NET, Java, etc work with objects, classes, etc... Sooner or later a new developer is going to have to learn it, and it might as be earlier than later. Second, autoit isn't a programming language per say so largely what you learn using it is basicly linked to autoit, and useless if you want to branch out and learn how to write a pro programming language, learn DirectX, and you wind up learning all over again from scratch. The time spent learning and working with autoit in my personal opinion is waisted. Third, learning a real full blown programming language for games has more flexable mainstream uses. You might be writing a couple of games, and decide you want to write your own mp3 player or wav recorder. You can do that, because you have a powerful language and compiler under your fingertips. Fourth, is similar to three, but this is to drive the point home. With autoit you are locked in to specific styles of games. With a full blown programming language you can do everything from text-based up to 3D audo FPS action games with online game play, etc... Fifth, while most PC owners still are largely MS Windows-based there is a slowly growing movement of sighted and blind folks who are now using alternative solutions such as Linux as well as FreeBSD, and some using Mac OS. With such a growing movement portability is likely going to become more important in the future. In fact, portability is one of the reasons I picked C#.NET as my development language for U.S.A. Games. At some point in the future I should be able to update my Sound.cs file with open source solutions like OpenAL, and run my games on Mac OS and Linux via Mono. I'm looking at porting STFC 2.0 to Linux right now, but have been busy with working on the core features of the game core to look in to portability. Anyway, why I am writing all this is I strongly feel a new developer needs to learn good coding and practices and skills right off rather than taking shortcuts like Autoit only to find out in the end it wasn't really valuable or worth the time. Granted we all have different interests, tastes, and aspirations, but what I would like to see is the accessible game comunity to stop lingering in Autoit, VB 6, etc and begin to really get in to more complex concepts and put out some cutting edge stuff. I'm not saying this is going to happen at once, but the existing developers have sadly stopped pushing the edge of cutting edge gaming. We've got so many Space Invader type clones, but only a couple of FPS games like Shades of Doom, and SOD is still really a one of a kind. GMA Tank Commander was really the first awesome simulation combat game, but again nothing else has really come close to comparison. Why is this? Well, as I said a game developer has to start somewhere, and starting with something truly useful such as C#.NET or VB.NET right off will break the new developer in to a real programming language. After that they'll have to practice with some simple games. Even a Space Invader Clone or two. However, after that he or she should be able to cut his or her teeth in to something more complex. Maybe a FPS game. After that work up to an online game. There is a progressiont to programming and a good developer is always learning, updating his or her skills, and is building more and more complex projects. Eventually, in 3 to 5 years he or she is ready to make games that are pretty advanced. All depending of course on the persons aptitude to learn. Not everyone can be a master, but many once they have a programming language well learned has the potential to go far. That potential is lost with substitutes like Autoit. Smile. x-sight interactive wrote: oh rachel i never knew you wanted to develop. if you want any help i can help you. i provide a starter pack for developers who wish to start off simple using autoit - most people don't like that though - but i would recommend that before starting something like vb or something more complicated. you can visit my dev section at: http://x-sight.brandoncole.net/dev hth. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
how is the starwars games going - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game development was intro Hi Damien, This list has been over this somewhat before but seriously I don't feel starting with autoit is the best suggestion. You may wonder why. Here is why I feel strongly against using autoit. First, off any seriously interested game developer worth a grain of sault must know and understand object oriented programming and design. All major programming languages weather we are talking C++, C#.NET, VB.NET, Java, etc work with objects, classes, etc... Sooner or later a new developer is going to have to learn it, and it might as be earlier than later. Second, autoit isn't a programming language per say so largely what you learn using it is basicly linked to autoit, and useless if you want to branch out and learn how to write a pro programming language, learn DirectX, and you wind up learning all over again from scratch. The time spent learning and working with autoit in my personal opinion is waisted. Third, learning a real full blown programming language for games has more flexable mainstream uses. You might be writing a couple of games, and decide you want to write your own mp3 player or wav recorder. You can do that, because you have a powerful language and compiler under your fingertips. Fourth, is similar to three, but this is to drive the point home. With autoit you are locked in to specific styles of games. With a full blown programming language you can do everything from text-based up to 3D audo FPS action games with online game play, etc... Fifth, while most PC owners still are largely MS Windows-based there is a slowly growing movement of sighted and blind folks who are now using alternative solutions such as Linux as well as FreeBSD, and some using Mac OS. With such a growing movement portability is likely going to become more important in the future. In fact, portability is one of the reasons I picked C#.NET as my development language for U.S.A. Games. At some point in the future I should be able to update my Sound.cs file with open source solutions like OpenAL, and run my games on Mac OS and Linux via Mono. I'm looking at porting STFC 2.0 to Linux right now, but have been busy with working on the core features of the game core to look in to portability. Anyway, why I am writing all this is I strongly feel a new developer needs to learn good coding and practices and skills right off rather than taking shortcuts like Autoit only to find out in the end it wasn't really valuable or worth the time. Granted we all have different interests, tastes, and aspirations, but what I would like to see is the accessible game comunity to stop lingering in Autoit, VB 6, etc and begin to really get in to more complex concepts and put out some cutting edge stuff. I'm not saying this is going to happen at once, but the existing developers have sadly stopped pushing the edge of cutting edge gaming. We've got so many Space Invader type clones, but only a couple of FPS games like Shades of Doom, and SOD is still really a one of a kind. GMA Tank Commander was really the first awesome simulation combat game, but again nothing else has really come close to comparison. Why is this? Well, as I said a game developer has to start somewhere, and starting with something truly useful such as C#.NET or VB.NET right off will break the new developer in to a real programming language. After that they'll have to practice with some simple games. Even a Space Invader Clone or two. However, after that he or she should be able to cut his or her teeth in to something more complex. Maybe a FPS game. After that work up to an online game. There is a progressiont to programming and a good developer is always learning, updating his or her skills, and is building more and more complex projects. Eventually, in 3 to 5 years he or she is ready to make games that are pretty advanced. All depending of course on the persons aptitude to learn. Not everyone can be a master, but many once they have a programming language well learned has the potential to go far. That potential is lost with substitutes like Autoit. Smile. x-sight interactive wrote: oh rachel i never knew you wanted to develop. if you want any help i can help you. i provide a starter pack for developers who wish to start off simple using autoit - most people don't like that though - but i would recommend that before starting something like vb or something more complicated. you can visit my dev section at: http://x-sight.brandoncole.net/dev hth. regards, damien ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Audyssey] Game development was intro
Hi Thomas, as I said in my intro, i'm a total no-nothing when it comes to all this, at the moment anyway. Lol What are the differences in each of those program languages? And what exactly is audoit? and also, when exactly does it change from writing a visual game (for sighties) to the blindy games (audio)? In other words, Do both types of games use the same program languages to a point, or are they completely different from the start? Hope that makes sense. Cheers! :) At 10:29 AM 4/09/2006, you wrote: Hi Damien, This list has been over this somewhat before but seriously I don't feel starting with autoit is the best suggestion. You may wonder why. Here is why I feel strongly against using autoit. First, off any seriously interested game developer worth a grain of sault must know and understand object oriented programming and design. All major programming languages weather we are talking C++, C#.NET, VB.NET, Java, etc work with objects, classes, etc... Sooner or later a new developer is going to have to learn it, and it might as be earlier than later. Second, autoit isn't a programming language per say so largely what you learn using it is basicly linked to autoit, and useless if you want to branch out and learn how to write a pro programming language, learn DirectX, and you wind up learning all over again from scratch. The time spent learning and working with autoit in my personal opinion is waisted. Third, learning a real full blown programming language for games has more flexable mainstream uses. You might be writing a couple of games, and decide you want to write your own mp3 player or wav recorder. You can do that, because you have a powerful language and compiler under your fingertips. Fourth, is similar to three, but this is to drive the point home. With autoit you are locked in to specific styles of games. With a full blown programming language you can do everything from text-based up to 3D audo FPS action games with online game play, etc... Fifth, while most PC owners still are largely MS Windows-based there is a slowly growing movement of sighted and blind folks who are now using alternative solutions such as Linux as well as FreeBSD, and some using Mac OS. With such a growing movement portability is likely going to become more important in the future. In fact, portability is one of the reasons I picked C#.NET as my development language for U.S.A. Games. At some point in the future I should be able to update my Sound.cs file with open source solutions like OpenAL, and run my games on Mac OS and Linux via Mono. I'm looking at porting STFC 2.0 to Linux right now, but have been busy with working on the core features of the game core to look in to portability. Anyway, why I am writing all this is I strongly feel a new developer needs to learn good coding and practices and skills right off rather than taking shortcuts like Autoit only to find out in the end it wasn't really valuable or worth the time. Granted we all have different interests, tastes, and aspirations, but what I would like to see is the accessible game comunity to stop lingering in Autoit, VB 6, etc and begin to really get in to more complex concepts and put out some cutting edge stuff. I'm not saying this is going to happen at once, but the existing developers have sadly stopped pushing the edge of cutting edge gaming. We've got so many Space Invader type clones, but only a couple of FPS games like Shades of Doom, and SOD is still really a one of a kind. GMA Tank Commander was really the first awesome simulation combat game, but again nothing else has really come close to comparison. Why is this? Well, as I said a game developer has to start somewhere, and starting with something truly useful such as C#.NET or VB.NET right off will break the new developer in to a real programming language. After that they'll have to practice with some simple games. Even a Space Invader Clone or two. However, after that he or she should be able to cut his or her teeth in to something more complex. Maybe a FPS game. After that work up to an online game. There is a progressiont to programming and a good developer is always learning, updating his or her skills, and is building more and more complex projects. Eventually, in 3 to 5 years he or she is ready to make games that are pretty advanced. All depending of course on the persons aptitude to learn. Not everyone can be a master, but many once they have a programming language well learned has the potential to go far. That potential is lost with substitutes like Autoit. Smile. x-sight interactive wrote: oh rachel i never knew you wanted to develop. if you want any help i can help you. i provide a starter pack for developers who wish to start off simple using autoit - most people don't like that though - but i would recommend that before starting something like vb or something more complicated. you can visit my dev section at: http://x-sight.brandoncole.net/dev hth.
[Audyssey] Game development was Rail Racer mouse
Hi, Damien. It is true someone always needs to start somewhere, but I personally don't have a very high opinion of VB. Especially, VB 6 and earlier. VB 6 is really ancient technology now, and it's object oriented design features sucks eggs. You mentioned an interest in learning C++. It has a bit more learning curve to it, but the pay off is big in the end. Another language I have become very fond of C#, called c-sharp, is a nice language for quickly writing games. It is not as hard as C++ to learn, and the ability of the .net framework gives you allot of predefined classes to work with to rapidly put your games together. X-Sight Interactive wrote: Liam, I'm quitting autoit anyway. The only reason I programmed it was because I was competent at it, I knew what it was I had to do, I understood most of the functions and their layouts. I'm starting to learn vb now, and someone else has offered to teach me c++. I didn't like it as a compiler myself, but that's all I knew - everyone has to start somewhere. Regards, Damien. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
