Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 5:08pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> It is OFTEN easier in Python to try it than to guess. >> (Also, easier to try it than to RTFM... :) > > While I agree with you, it is with some trepidation. Learning a system >without learning the hows and whys behind it can lead to "cargo cult >programming", where the programmer does something completely unneeded (or >outright wrong), because he or she doesn't understand what he is *really* >doing. I like that term. When I was in High School I tried to learn UCSD Pascal on the Apple ][. The compiler had a handy built in bugger. If your code was bug free, sometimes it would helpfully add a bug or 2. I got in the habit of recompiling if it didn't run. Thank goodness Turbo Pascal was so much quicker when I got to college. I eventually learned that a recompile didn't help :-) Many years later I learned about that quirk of Apple Pascal. I think that kind of thing (recompiling) would've been helped if I could've read a FAQ. Too bad we didn't have internet access back then. You'd think the magazines of the time would cover it when they ran an Apple Pascal piece. -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 10:26pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> ... "cargo cult programming" ... > > I like that term. Just to prevent any mistaken impressions, let me state that it is not original to me. See: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/cargo-cult-programming.html See also: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/voodoo-programming.html http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/rain-dance.html http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/wave-a-dead-chicken.html > When I was in High School I tried to learn UCSD Pascal on the Apple ][. Oh my! I remember that thing. All those nifty menu actions on the top of the screen. Krunching the disk after deleting a file. What a crock. > The compiler had a handy built in bugger. If your code was bug free, > sometimes it would helpfully add a bug or 2. That explains a few problems I had with it. Fortunately, I already had a copy of Turbo Pascal at the time, and was able to reduce my usage of the Apple Pascal to a minimum. I miss Turbo Pascal. :) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 10:26pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> ... "cargo cult programming" ... >> >> I like that term. > > Just to prevent any mistaken impressions, let me state that it is not >original to me. See: Noted. >> When I was in High School I tried to learn UCSD Pascal on the Apple ][. > > Oh my! I remember that thing. All those nifty menu actions on the top of >the screen. Krunching the disk after deleting a file. What a crock. And dealing with a 40 column screen on a virtual 80 column one. Swapping back and forth. >> The compiler had a handy built in bugger. If your code was bug free, >> sometimes it would helpfully add a bug or 2. > > That explains a few problems I had with it. Fortunately, I already had a >copy of Turbo Pascal at the time, and was able to reduce my usage of the >Apple Pascal to a minimum. I had a Zenith Z-100 in college. I managed to get a copy of p-System for that too. And M/PM, CPM-85, CPM-86 in addition to MS-DOS. I don't want to go back though :-) > > I miss Turbo Pascal. :) Your editor, compiler, debugger and code all on 1 360k floppy. I used to have Turbo C on a 1.2MB floppy too. -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
> That explains a few problems I had with it. Fortunately, I already > had a > copy of Turbo Pascal at the time, and was able to reduce my usage of the > Apple Pascal to a minimum. > > I miss Turbo Pascal. :) So, buy Kylix. I have. Hell: you can even download a free, usable-but-not-quite-full-featured version from Borland. Basically, it's Turbo Pascal, but with a GUI thrown in to help with the dreary stuff. Cool. Though, I have to admit, somewhat hard to get into -- the included docs suck. I've got a good intro book at home that I can dig up the title of if anyone's interested. -Ken Ken D'Ambrosio [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. SysAdmin, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Xanoptix, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:30:02 EST "Tom Buskey" said: >> I miss Turbo Pascal. :) > >Your editor, compiler, debugger and code all on 1 360k floppy. I used >to have Turbo C on a 1.2MB floppy too. I had them both as well. I've since traded them in for a separate compiler, debugger, and editor which (among other things) conspire to eat up the better part of a 20GB disk :) However, I don't think I could do much without Emacs now that I'm so used to it. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > >In a message dated: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:30:02 EST >"Tom Buskey" said: > >>> I miss Turbo Pascal. :) >> >>Your editor, compiler, debugger and code all on 1 360k floppy. I used >>to have Turbo C on a 1.2MB floppy too. > >I had them both as well. I've since traded them in for a separate >compiler, debugger, and editor which (among other things) conspire to >eat up the better part of a 20GB disk :) > >However, I don't think I could do much without Emacs now that I'm so >used to it. I had emacs on that 1.2MB floppy too. freemacs for DOS. That's how I learned emacs originally. It's included in FreeDOS that you probably use with DOSemu. >-- > >Seeya, >Paul >-- > It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, > but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. > >If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! > > -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Yes, vim does rectangular block copies: Place cursor on one corner of desired rectangle. Say ^V Move cursor to opposite corner of desired rectangle; block will be highlighted as you go. Say y Move cursor to desired destination for copied block. Say p You can delete the block rather than copying it by saying d instead of y. Bram Moolenaar is cool. . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users are actually the higher life forms; it's just that I don't know how to use them and so keep falling back on vi and the other tools that I already know... As a general answer to pll's queries: vi can't necessarily do all the goofy things that emacs can do, but it is surprisingly powerful. And I'm just talking about "plain old" vi; vim has tricks up its sleeve that you'd never suspect. If I had to name some of my favorite vi characteristics I'd have to say its regular expression handling and particularly its feed-specified-region-as-stdin-to- arbitrary-program-and-replace-that-region-with-the- resultant-stdout trick. The latter means that you can do anything with any text in any vi buffer that you could do with any arbitrary program that processes its stdin and spews something useful via its stdout. Therefore, the answer to most of pll's queries is "yes" (though YMMV) because you can sort, columnize, reformat, etc, with programs like sort, cut, ls, tbl, indent, fmt, etc. And if there isn't already a program that does what you want, you can write one. For example, I wrote an awk script to do similar sorts of tabularization trickery that somebody already showed emacs to be capable of. I must say, the (results of) that emacs trick look prettier than mine, but that just reflects the (lack of) effort I put into that coding that script; it did what I needed. The way you use the bufferStdinStdoutSubstitution trick is to (A) specify the buffer and then (B) inform vi which program to execute. You accomplish A by placing the cursor on a line and saying ! followed by any normal vi motion command. vi will then (B) invite you to say which program you'd like the implied buffer to be fed to as stdin. EXAMPLE: Since saying } means goto-end-of-paragraph you can reformat a paragraph (for example) by placing the cursor on the first line of a paragraph and saying !}fmt -1 | sort -fdu | fmt -55 which means "feed this paragraph as stdin to the fmt program and replace it with fmt's output" . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
I think the choice of emacs or vi (or vim) is much of a mater of personal preference. I come from a shop originally that was entirely emaics oriented. You edited, emailed, compiled, tested and debugged with emacs. Before the widspread use of windowing systems, emacs provided the multi- windows support. Emacs is, was and always will be a pig. On the old workstations we would run emacs at logon, and keep it up. At Digital, I used emacs rather than EDT or LSE. Emacs has been a languiage sensitive editor for as long as I have used it. But, those of us who are emacs bigots should remember that vi (and vim) are also very powerful and capable editors, but are lighter weight. Some of my colleages are emacs bigots and others are vi bigots. It is all a matter of personal preference. On 14 Nov 2002 at 15:17, Derek Martin wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly: > > - the ability to edit a document/file located on a remote > > system over ssh > > - the ability to cut, yank, past, and otherwise edit > > "rectangles" of text ( I do this *all* the time with > >things like host tables, 'ps' output, etc. > > - the ability to create "on-the-fly" keyboard macros > > - the ability to name the above mentioned macro > > - the ability to save the above named macro for later use > > > > I'm not saying that Vim can't do any of these things, but I know vi > > cannot. I also hate modal editors for any long term editing, but > > that may not apply to Vim, right? > > I don't know if vim has either of the first two, but it does have the > last three. OTOH, I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure that vi > actually does have them too. > > As for the first one, while it's neat and can be convenient, if you > can ssh into the system then you can ssh in and run vi(m), with very > little extra effort. And I find that if I'm editing one file on a > given system, there's a fair likelihood that I'm going to edit > another or execute some command on the file I just edited as well, so > logging in usually really just isn't that big a deal. > > The second one, I admit, is a really cool feature. I don't know if > vim has it or not... > > - -- > Derek D. Martin > http://www.pizzashack.org/ > GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQE91AS9HEnASN++rQIRAgKEAJ4gtm3FRotEQWQVqpH5m3qyCT8D/wCeNEwr > vjG5f6ujyVHns+TZhXyiQZ8= > =9g+8 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > gnhlug-discuss mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Associate Director Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael O'Donnell) writes: > As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and > perl-users are actually the higher life forms; Well, that isn't true... [snip] > If I had to name some of my favorite vi characteristics > I'd have to say its regular expression handling and > particularly its feed-specified-region-as-stdin-to- > arbitrary-program-and-replace-that-region-with-the- > resultant-stdout trick. You can accomplish this in emacs by running C-u M-C-| on a region. I write a *lot* of code this way. > The latter means that you > can do anything with any text in any vi buffer that > you could do with any arbitrary program that processes > its stdin and spews something useful via its stdout. Yes, I use this feature in vi a lot (I use vi a lot too). I have to say that I like the fact that vim seems to have different behavior than all of the old vi implementations that I've used in the past. For example, if I define a mark, move, and then :'a,.! perl -pe '...' the mark is preserved. I mean, when vi loses the mark after this operation and I want to run another command, I want to scream. OTOH, the fact that vi and vim seem to treat some characters as "magical" (like '#' and especially '%') really louses me up sometimes, at which point I scramble back to emacs. (I can't :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/#/' in vim, for example) Regards, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
>OTOH, the fact that vi and vim seem to treat some characters as >"magical" (like '#' and especially '%') really louses me up sometimes, >at which point I scramble back to emacs. > >(I can't :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/#/' in vim, for example) Heh. All it takes is one additional backslash: :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/\#/' There - that wasn't so bad, now - was it? . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:17:01 EST Derek Martin said: >As for the first one, while it's neat and can be convenient, if you >can ssh into the system then you can ssh in and run vi(m), with very >little extra effort. Well yes, but when you're editing several different files at the same time, it's very convenient to have different emacs buffers with several different files opened in order to be able to quickly and easily cut'n'paste between the files without using the mouse. Don't get me wrong, I ssh into systems and use vi all the time. As a matter of fact, I often have emacs up and running on my main system, but will use vi in an xterm to edit some file on the same system. >I find that if I'm editing one file on a >given system, there's a fair likelihood that I'm going to edit >another or execute some command on the file I just edited as well, so >logging in usually really just isn't that big a deal. Agreed, and it's easy enough to just scp said file to the local system and edit that way as well. >The second one, I admit, is a really cool feature. I don't know if >vim has it or not... You mean the rectangle thingy? I've not seen it anywhere else but in emacsen. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:36:36 EST "Jerry Feldman" said: >It is all a matter of personal preference. Agreed. Before anyone accuses me of attempting to re-kindle the age-old holy war, I was simply responding to Derek with a list of things I do constantly in Emacs for which I was unsure whether or nor vi/Vim could also do. Note I did not include syntax hilighting :) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:02:30 EST mike ledoux said: >On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> >> Well yes, but when you're editing several different files at the same >> time, it's very convenient to have different emacs buffers with >> several different files opened in order to be able to quickly and >> easily cut'n'paste between the files without using the mouse. > >vi can do that. I use multiple buffers in vi all the time. With Vim, >you can even make multiple buffers visible at the same time. Right, I knew that, but what I'm referring to is that some of those multiple buffers are actually files located on remote machines. IOW, rather than: - scp'ing a bunch of files from several different machines to say /tmp, - opening them all up into different buffers, - editing them, - saving them, - then scp'ing them all back to the right systems. I can simply open "a bunch of files" regardless of whether they're local or not from within Emacs, edit them to my hearts content, then save them. I basically eliminate steps 1 and 5 above. Additionally, if those files are under revision control on the remote machines, I can check them out from within emacs as well. (granted, I don't do this often, and more times than not, I ssh to the remote machine, co the file from RCS, vi it, etc.) >> You mean the rectangle thingy? I've not seen it anywhere else but in >> emacsen. > >Not being an emacs guy, I'm not certain that this is the same thing, >but Vim has a 'Visual' mode that allows you to to block selections with >a highlighting rectangle. I don't know about the Visual mode. The rectangle thing with emacs lets me do things like this; say I have a hosts table: 1.2.3.1 hosta 1.2.3.2 hostb 1.2.3.3 hostc I can 'cut out' any given rectangle as defined by 2 corners. So, for instance, say I want to make this into a DNS file where I only need the last octet of the IP, I can define the 'upper-left' corner to be '1' and the 'lower-right' corner to be the '.' between the 3.3 and remove that rectangle leaving me with: 1 hosta 2 hostb 3 hostc I can then define another rectangle to by the upper-left corner being the 'h' of hosta and the lower-right corner being the 'c' of hostc. Then I can cut that rectangle, move my cursor to be on the '1', and yank that rectangle and I end up with: hosta 1 hostb 2 hostc 3 It's really hard to explain this feature via e-mail, you really need to see it in action. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In emacs, you can edit multiple files simultaneously. I don't know about vim, but in vi, you can cut and paste between files by using the multiple buffer feature. In emacs you can have multiple windows, displayed vertically, horizontally or both at the same time if you are a masochist. I use ediff frequently to compare or merge files. One must remember that emacs is a programming language not an editor. Just about everything in emacs is extensible. I can make it look like vi or like any other editor. But, as I mentioned (and Derek alluded to) it is a pig. It takes up a lot of resources. On 14 Nov 2002 at 16:02, mike ledoux wrote: > vi can do that. I use multiple buffers in vi all the time. With Vim, > you can even make multiple buffers visible at the same time. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Associate Director Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael O'Donnell) writes: > Heh. All it takes is one additional backslash: > > :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/\#/' > > > There - that wasn't so bad, now - was it? No, that's reasonable. I hesitate to mention this, because I'm about to make an unfair comparison, but I have encountered versions of vi that wouldn't let you escape these magic characters -- no amount of escaping would do the trick (IIRC, the vi that comes with Solaris suffers from this). So, if vim acts more reasonably here, then I'd have to say that this is a good thing. Regards, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > >In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:02:30 EST >mike ledoux said: > >>On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >(granted, I don't do this often, and more times than not, I ssh to >the remote machine, co the file from RCS, vi it, etc.) emacs works well with RCS/CVS too. I don't remember if it works that across a SSH link. >>> You mean the rectangle thingy? I've not seen it anywhere else but in >>> emacsen. I first used it in PC-Write IIRC. Did the same as the emacs thing that you just explained. I'm thinking I might have done it in qedit (another DOS editor). I remember some users (around '90) saying "Why do I need X? I have emacs and can run my editor, gdb, gcc, etc". These users were beyone the Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping of course :-) -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii mike ledoux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > For ability #1, 'ssh remote vi filename' works fine for me, although I > usually just use an interactive ssh session. Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) that would be painfully unresponsive. I hadn't heard about this capability before, but it sounds sweet. Running the editor locally and only tunneling the file i/o sounds like a major win. How does one actually invoke this? - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iQCVAwUBPdQdzlV9A5rVx7XZAQJ00wP8CZZOCZYFMK573ZPZmDgaSNLDnW6byk8g jnCAfadSjPLYjk+qzu6VpXdY0Wa7vJvpwZJpMtYzBjOsvyHTZVlj8L0FiPOepYp3 vbHm8YLYSi8zsf3L0Dyvu4a/n0oJzgcwkqyWy2T6RZNP9+1MCqvpJ1uNnad+m5JM AED1LPVQp2I= =FvNY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 5:03pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> For ability #1, 'ssh remote vi filename' works fine for me, although I >> usually just use an interactive ssh session. > > Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) that would be painfully > unresponsive. I run Pine, Emacs (text mode), vi, etc., all the time, over my 24K dialup, and while it ain't fast, it is generally usable. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
This message isn't intended to start an emacs vs. vi flamewar --
really, I'm just looking to understand how other people using
different editors handle these situations.
Emacs has a scheme for handling compilation of programs. I can type
(something like) M-x compile and the compilation will be run under
my Emacs process. If there's a compilation error, I can type a few
keystrokes and Emacs will bring me to the exact source file and line
number where the compilation failed (even if the file wasn't
previously loaded into Emacs).
Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
Emacs has a general scheme for auto-completing keywords. Let's say
that I have three files loaded into Emacs, two locally and one
remotely (via a ssh connection, for example). Let's say that the file
on the remote machine happens to contain the word
"supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious". Let's say that I am currently
editing one of the local files. By pressing a tiny few keys, I've got
my emacs setup so I can just type "sup M-/" and
"supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" will magically appear (because
it is a potential completion).
Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
My Emacs setup is integrated with my source control system -- I can
check in and check out files without leaving my editor, as well as
checkin files in bulk.
Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
Let's say that I have the following LaTeX code:
(note: the #'s here are complete garbage)
\begin{table}
\begin{center}
\begin{tabular}{|l|l|r|r|} \hline
Matrix Size & & System1 & System2 \\ \hline
512x512 \\ \hline
& Serial & 7.195 & 6.210 \\ \hline
& 2 nodes & 5.622 (5.639*)& 3.300 \\ \hline
& 4 nodes & 8.481* & 3.930 \\ \hline
& 8 nodes & 15.399* & 2.34 \\ \hline
& 16 nodes & 44.017* & 0.77 \\ \hline
1024x1024 \\ \hline
& Serial & 62.466 & 65.620 \\ \hline
& 2 nodes & 40.017* & 33.450 \\ \hline
& 4 nodes & 22.202* & 17.430 \\ \hline
& 8 nodes & 10.788* & 9.550 \\ \hline
& 16 nodes & 84.652## & 5.360 \\ \hline
\end{tabular}
\caption{Foo Timings}
\label{foo_tab}
\end{center}
\end{table}
Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this
up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly:
\begin{table}
\begin{center}
\begin{tabular}{|l|l|r|r|} \hline
Matrix Size & & System1 & System2 \\ \hline
512x512 \\ \hline
& Serial & 7.195 & 6.210 \\ \hline
& 2 nodes & 5.622 (5.639*) & 3.300 \\ \hline
& 4 nodes & 8.481* & 3.930 \\ \hline
& 8 nodes & 15.399*& 2.34 \\ \hline
& 16 nodes & 44.017*& 0.77 \\ \hline
1024x1024 \\ \hline
& Serial & 62.466 & 65.620 \\ \hline
& 2 nodes & 40.017*& 33.450 \\ \hline
& 4 nodes & 22.202*& 17.430 \\ \hline
& 8 nodes & 10.788*& 9.550 \\ \hline
& 16 nodes & 84.652## & 5.360 \\ \hline
\end{tabular}
\caption{Foo Timings}
\label{foo_tab}
\end{center}
\end{table}
Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
Suppose I have cut and pasted 5 paragraphs from somewhere else, and
all of the lines are >80 characters in length. I can easily instruct
Emacs to just "fill" these paragraphs and wrap all of the lines
properly.
Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
Again, I am just looking to learn how other people handle
these tasks -- thanks!
--kevin
--
Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA)
cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E)
alumni.unh.edu!kdc
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Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I run Pine, Emacs (text mode), vi, etc., all the time, over my 24K dialup, > and while it ain't fast, it is generally usable. I've done the same, over a 56K dialup, and while it was usable, it was also incredibly frustrating. Maybe you have a higher tolerance for latency than I do. - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iQCVAwUBPdQlm1V9A5rVx7XZAQLZjwQAjHK7uYFa1+UVbbRn0Ht/9cVB/e2ykXuJ ZsY7IuHMp0Gfje7fbSnemRLKh04FEU0GVcD0KwcdkCIUeKd6X4SrRp/Ahxde6AAG yAZSXFqNONrP5BG2moQUSV6zlWE8hebJobH5Iqc9gIONjps2BAPGA5EtF2wqoxOD ZsvknEtPukE= =ann3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Let's say that I have the following LaTeX code: > > (note: the #'s here are complete garbage) > > > Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this > > up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly: > > > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this? > > sure. :%s/ &/^I&/ (or some similar command for different cases). Vi > does that too. That's not exactly what I want. I want the ampersands to line up, no matter how much stuff is between the ampersands. I don't care about tab stops, I just want the ampersands to line up. Thanks, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
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mike ledoux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> For years I did things like this and would've killed for 28.8K dialup,
> let alone 56K. The performance isn't so bad as you seem to think.
> Actually, it should be even better nowadays, as ssh does compression.
I'm on a 56K dialup now, and it's not all that much better. I still get
frequent lags of anywhere from a few seconds to occasionally a minute or
two where the connection simply sits there frozen.
> > How does one actually invoke this?
>
> In emacs? I have no idea. I gave the commandline I use for vi, but it
> doesn't do any tunneling of file i/o.
It doesn't have to. The file i/o occurs only when the file is read or
written, and the editing is done locally without having to pass the
keystrokes over to the remote machine. Thus the interactive performance
of the editor is much better.
> FWIW, I sincerely doubt that is what emacs is doing either; I strongly
> suspect it transfers the entire file to the local system to open, and
> back to the remote to save changes.
Well, yeah, that's how a text editor works; it loads a file into memory,
you do your editing on the copy that's in memory, and then it writes
the modified copy from memory back out to a file.
As for invoking it, it turns out to be fairly straightforward. I had to
download ange-ftp-over-ssh.tar.gz, move the nftp.pl script into
my PATH, and add a line to my .emacs:
(setq ange-ftp-ftp-program-name "nftp.pl")
Oh, and I also had to create ~/.nftprc:
$aliases{asgard}="asgard:22";
After doing that, and having ssh-agent running so I can connect to
asgard without a password, I just tell emacs to open a file of the form
/asgard:.bashrc
and it edits /home/jabr/.bashrc on the remote machine "asgard".
Emacs still prompts for my ssh password before looking for the file, but
I can just hit return without specifying a password, and it works.
I'll have to figure out how to change that so it doesn't prompt for
the password.
- --
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj
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Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The probable cause was not latency, but packet loss. If your dial-up > connection doesn't suck, you shouldn't have a problem. By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection that didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate networks at various contract jobs where both offices were on T1 lines in separate cities. Granted, I haven't seen this suckage when the two machines were on the same LAN; a 100bTX link is sufficiently fast for this. - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iQCVAwUBPdQwZlV9A5rVx7XZAQI0FgP+MUK7elfs+9VVzcM99F/9u4zEZGKDOPtK g1gpqiM+lYl+fsiVKYp7r3ZaOFmfWJJ7xXRETLP6i9BKfurRjgekzukihcdp3Vu5 JiA5OKGX0WOWV2Oov4dkeAa8tEuCihX7BA4he7ndFC58u3EgMu84Woa2oblcuASV dKSnmYWXzpk= =+q7r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Earlier I wrote: > By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection > that didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate > networks at various contract jobs where both offices were on T1 lines > in separate cities. On reflection, I neglected to mention that on attbi and the corporate networks, the latency/packet-loss thing was a minor annoyance. I found it mildly frustrating, but in comparison to the major aggravation of the various 56K dialups I've used, it's almost nonexistent. - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iQCUAwUBPdQyZlV9A5rVx7XZAQJ0QwP2LY1WFa7+gW4p7Gtd2cPyPUVIfoj+Y5iY winC/SyprYIzw8cYzDREaWL6wNTqsM9L7fuu0BZ8WInV1gaaMMch2pkszv/KuZQb ylU6WgHTOL+vFz1iGAaHrZOSXJ5u2RxIA7T/MeeOoZgP8m0KU5yBTs4nlr2ayCGk IquCl47XVA== =nmns -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
John Abreau said: > >By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection >that didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate >networks at various contract jobs where both offices were on T1 lines >in separate cities. I was lucky enough to work at Genuity for awhile. 10T to the internet. And to all the remote data centers. Ok, the link to tokyo and london had some latency issues but they weren't on our network. It was probably one of the few jobs that would make a cablemodem or DSL line feel slow. -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:06pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm on a 56K dialup now, and it's not all that much better. I still get > frequent lags of anywhere from a few seconds to occasionally a minute or > two where the connection simply sits there frozen. That's bogus. I'm on what I think has to be NH's worst dialup feed -- 15 miles from the CO, cannot connect faster than 24 kilobits, takes three times to connect, drops carrier if the wind gusts -- and I don't have that problem. Occasionally, the modem will go off into hyperspace for a bit, and I have to sit and watch the EC and CS lights blink for a minute or two, but then two lines worth of text will spew out all at once and I'll be back in business. When I get lags like you're describing, I start running 'ping' and 'traceroute' commands, and will usually find a router well upstream of the modems that is having a nervous breakdown. > By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection that > didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate networks > at various contract jobs where both offices were on T1 lines in separate > cities. How exceedingly odd. Even on 128 kilobit DSL feeds, interactive performance is good enough that I cannot really tell the difference between that and a LAN. We're talking about SSH for a shell prompt, right? You're not popping up an xterm over the feed, or something like that, are you? -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 9:29pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ok, the link to tokyo and london had some latency issues but they weren't > on our network. Geez. *Light* has some latency issues, too. I spent years at 2400 baud on dialup systems where colored text was considered an advanced feature. And I'm just a young'un. There are people on the list who remember when teletypes really did *type*. You people today. You don't know how good you've got it. ;-) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:06pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I'm on a 56K dialup now, and it's not all that much better. I still get >> frequent lags of anywhere from a few seconds to occasionally a minute or >> two where the connection simply sits there frozen. > > That's bogus. I'm on what I think has to be NH's worst dialup feed -- 15 >miles from the CO, cannot connect faster than 24 kilobits, takes three times >to connect, drops carrier if the wind gusts -- and I don't have that >problem. Occasionally, the modem will go off into hyperspace for a bit, and >I have to sit and watch the EC and CS lights blink for a minute or two, but >then two lines worth of text will spew out all at once and I'll be back in >business. Remember the old Telebit Trailblazer modems? They'd sometimes connect at 2400 baud when another modem wouldn't connect at 300 baud because the line was so noisy. fyi these modems could do > 9600 baud (19,200?) and did kermit/uucp internally to speed things up. They had a 68000 chip ro run the modem operation. This was when 9600 baud was rare. I bet today's modem's have similar issues. Is there a market for upscale modems? Like the old USR Courier that could do 19,200 when 14,4 was the fastest speed? -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users are actually the > higher life forms ... I really don't think the choice of tool has much to do with the sophistication of the user. I think it mostly comes down to personal preference, and possibly what one learned first. I will make one generalization, though. Now, this is far from a hard-and-fast rule, but I think it might hold true more often than not. Hypothesis: People who like Emacs seem to want to do all their work within a single, all-encompassing tool, filled with extensions to customize it. People who like vi seem to be more likely to have many xterms open, each with different files, and to look for external, generalized tools rather than editor extensions. Of course, the above might be effect rather than cause; the design of the respective editors would tend to imply those very behaviors. I note that the later approach (external tools) bears a strong resemblance to key parts of the Unix Philosophy. A tool should do one thing, and do it well. However, I know plenty of Emacs-fans who worship at the Unix Philosophy altar, so I'm not sure that's relevant. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 9:58pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I bet today's modem's have similar issues. Is there a market for > upscale modems? Like the old USR Courier that could do 19,200 when > 14,4 was the fastest speed? I think the market for such modems has largely been eliminated. People want modems to be cheap, and people who care about such things want something better than a modem. The fact that 56 kilobits is the theoretical maximum bandwidth of a POTS[1] line also means there isn't much room for improvement. Footnotes - [1] Plain Old Telephone Service. The technical term (really!) for what most people think is the only kind of phone line. -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 11:08am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I miss Turbo Pascal. :) > > So, buy Kylix. Oh, I love Delphi and Object Pascal and the VCL, too, and would be more interested in Kylix if I was still doing application programming. But they're just not the same as TP. :-) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Just one more comment. There were and are many different versions of emacs. Of course there is the GNU emacs originally written by Richard Stallman. There was the Cambridge Emacs, the Gossling Emacs, and of course the microemacs, and a few more. Xemacs (formerly Lucid) is mostly GNU emacs code. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Associate Director Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
>>Screen has been around forever, which accomplishes the same thing. >>And, vim also supports this functionality. > >Well, I guess for relatively small values of 'forever' :) Here, just FYA, is a pretty good representation of history to help you calculate an upper bound for possible values of 'forever' http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#01 . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Just to be picky, the MkLinux timeline ends with DR-3, the last release backed by Apple Computer. It totally ignores stuff that the community has been doing since. This matters to me because I use MkLinux Pre-R1 on my web server. Maybe I should let the person responsible for the site know about their oversight. Michael O'Donnell wrote: Here, just FYA, is a pretty good representation of history to help you calculate an upper bound for possible values of 'forever' http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#01 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:41:14 EST Michael O'Donnell said: >Here, just FYA, is a pretty good representation of history to help >you calculate an upper bound for possible values of 'forever' > > http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#01 Outstanding! This seems to be an extension to the tree found in Salus's "A Quarter Century with UNIX", which is now 8 years out of date :) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez. *Light* has some latency issues, too. I spent years at 2400 baud on dialup systems where colored text was considered an advanced feature. And I'm just a young'un. There are people on the list who remember when teletypes really did *type*. I'm only 32 (well next Wednesday, anyway) and I've actually worked on a program that sent data over a 2400 baud connection directly to a teletype machine. That was in 1997 and 1998 or so. I didn't write the original, but became responsible for maintenance for a brief time. I had to learn all the "shift codes" to make it print bold and so on. Don't say that us young'uns don't know anything, but I guess by modern programming hiring practices, I'm old. You people today. You don't know how good you've got it. ;-) My first 'net connection was over a 2400 baud modem to a Unix server. I used that modem for 3 years before I could afford a 14400 modem. I used that for several years before getting ADSL at 768 Kbps / 128 Kbps. Today, I'm on a dedicated SDSL line at 144 Kbps both ways, and sometimes it feels slow. I know how good I've got it. I could use a *slow* line again if I had to, but once you've used the Condor who wants to go back to a Goonie Bird? ;-) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
I worked on the original Burger King POS in the early '70s. This was a DEC PDP8M. The modem card did not have a UART or equivalent. To do 1200bps, we would put the system into a tight loop for the appropriate amount of time, the neither send or receive a bit. We had to devlop out own protocol. Also, our printer was equally primitive, we had to strike the happers on the drum. To determine the key on the keyboard we had to read the row and column. On 15 Nov 2002 at 8:53, Jason Stephenson wrote: > I'm only 32 (well next Wednesday, anyway) and I've actually worked on a > program that sent data over a 2400 baud connection directly to a -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Associate Director Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Since screen depends on pseudo-ttys it's unlikely that it was around before they were first implemented... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:47:41 EST "Tom Buskey" said: >>>On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>(granted, I don't do this often, and more times than not, I ssh to >>the remote machine, co the file from RCS, vi it, etc.) > >emacs works well with RCS/CVS too. I don't remember if it works that >across a SSH link. Yeah, it seems to work okay over ssh using tramp. You mean the rectangle thingy? I've not seen it anywhere else but in emacsen. > >I first used it in PC-Write IIRC. Did the same as the emacs thing that >you just explained. I'm thinking I might have done it in qedit >(another DOS editor). Hmmm, interesting. I didn't know PC-Write had that type of capability. Cool, though it doesn't do me much good now :) >I remember some users (around '90) saying "Why do I need X? I have >emacs and can run my editor, gdb, gcc, etc". These users were beyone >the Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping of course :-) I've known some who have had .emacs files that large : -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:03:58 EST John Abreau said: >Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) that would be painfully >unresponsive. I hadn't heard about this capability before, but it sounds >sweet. Running the editor locally and only tunneling the file i/o >sounds like a major win. > >How does one actually invoke this? You need the 'tramp' stuff installed. In Debian, just 'apt-get install tramp' then fire up emacs. The key however, is that you need to use ssh-agent and fire up emacs from a shell where that has the ssh-agent environment vars available. Then, when you want to open a file on the remote server you open it somewhat normally: C-x C-f /[user@remotehost]/path/to/remote/file Then your file will be loaded into the current buffer. Then any normal file operations on it will work as normal. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:16:53 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >Footnotes >- >[1] Plain Old Telephone Service. The technical term (really!) for what >most people think is the only kind of phone line. You mean it isn't? ;) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:29 EST John Abreau said: >As for invoking it, it turns out to be fairly straightforward. I had to >download ange-ftp-over-ssh.tar.gz, move the nftp.pl script into >my PATH, and add a line to my .emacs: I had a lot of trouble getting ange-ftp to work over ssh for some reason. I then heard about tramp, switched to that, and haven't looked back. It's a lot easier to implement than all the steps you mentioned for getting the ange-ftp mode working. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bscott@;ntisys.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:01 PM > To: Greater NH Linux User Group > Subject: Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users > are actually the > > higher life forms ... > > I really don't think the choice of tool has much to do with the > sophistication of the user. I think it mostly comes down to personal > preference, and possibly what one learned first. I agree with this. Even just navigating around a buffer, I'm used to the emacs keybindings to the extent that I always get tripped up in vi. It is reinforced by the fact that I use bash with emacs-style readline settings, and I use OS X (many Cocoa applications on OS X allow you to use emacs keybindings to move the cursor around). But at work, the Solaris box appears only to have vi (not even vim). So, I learn to adjust. Erik ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:08:39 EST Derek Martin said: >At some point hitherto, Jerry Feldman hath spake thusly: >> Before the widspread use of windowing systems, emacs provided the multi- >> windows support. > >Screen has been around forever, which accomplishes the same thing. >And, vim also supports this functionality. Well, I guess for relatively small values of 'forever' :) The Changelog file for screen only dates back to 1991. So I guess for most people 11 years may be considered forever. However, I'm willing to bet Jerry was referring to a time well before 1991 when he stated the above. Especially considering that X dates back to about 1984-5 or so, and Emacs in various incarnations has been around since at least the early-mid 1970s (if you count teco, from which I believed it is derived, then the 1960s). But, for all practical purposes, yeah, screen exists, and has for a very long time :) >Emacs is, was and always will be a pig. Well, yeah, so. If I remember correctly, so is your Xterra ;) >I do still sometimes use Emacs, and I like it. I would not really >categorize myself as a vi bigot... But I do think that if you can get >over the wierd vi commands, vim is better for most purposes because it >does have most of the same text editing features, but has a much >smaller memory footprint and start-up time. 'S just my opinion. =8^) I'm curious, why did you decide to switch? I mean, the start-up time and memory footprint of emacs is no worse than Mozilla, and far better than older versions of Netscape. With the amount CPU and memory systems typically have now (usually a requirement for certain other OSes), Linux seldom needs the amount of resources at it's disposal, so Emacs should run just fine. Given that, and the fact that one (i.e. you) already knows emacs very well after having used it for years, why switch? -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
The Unix standard screen oriented editor has been vi for a long time. Emacs was never part of any standard Unix, but was most always provided as an addon. I have always advocated that Unix (and Linux) professionals be well versed in vi. Beyond that it is up to the invididual, and possibly the project and installation. I once did a contract at a company where they did not want to install emacs, but installed this other product which purported to be emacs compatible. Not only was it not emacs compatible, it crashed more frequently than Windows 9x. My contract was dependent on that company's client obtaining venture capital. Had that occurred I would have insisted on GNU emacs being installed. On 15 Nov 2002 at 10:13, Price, Erik wrote: > But at work, the Solaris box appears only to have vi (not even vim). So, I learn to >adjust. -- Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Associate Director Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
(Amusingly, I seem to break every generalization you mention :) In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:00:32 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users are actually the >> higher life forms ... > > I really don't think the choice of tool has much to do with the >sophistication of the user. I think it mostly comes down to personal >preference, and possibly what one learned first. I actually learned vi first, and vaguely remember way back when, doing things in vi that, for the life of me, now can't remember how to do them :) Some one showed me some neat things in emacs (thanks Tom :) and I was hooked! > I will make one generalization, though. Now, this is far from a >hard-and-fast rule, but I think it might hold true more often than not. >Hypothesis: People who like Emacs seem to want to do all their work within a >single, all-encompassing tool, filled with extensions to customize it. >People who like vi seem to be more likely to have many xterms open, each >with different files, and to look for external, generalized tools rather >than editor extensions. I actually have XEmacs up with a lot of different buffers, yet lots of xterms also doing different things, including using vi/less to look at various other files *while* editing something else in emacs :) I both customize my emacs environment and use general tools and pipelines to accomplish things :) In short, I use the best tool for the job at the moment, or, whatever is the fastest to get what I want! > I note that the later approach (external tools) bears a strong resemblance >to key parts of the Unix Philosophy. A tool should do one thing, and do it >well. However, I know plenty of Emacs-fans who worship at the Unix >Philosophy altar, so I'm not sure that's relevant. (raised hand) Yeah, I love emacs, and worship at that particular altar :) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
> -Original Message- > From: Derek Martin [mailto:gnhlug@;sophic.org] > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming > > > You ain't a young'un... ;-) Ben's in his early-mid 20's. Even > that's not really a young'un to me... I think of a young'un as a > teenager -- someone just starting out with computing and the Internet. No, the new term is "yoot". Ex.: There are a lot of yoots posting do-my-homework questions on Java forums. Here's a thread I found very humorous: http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=31&thread=324107 (Context: the forums are not for people to have their homework done for them. And the fast-food references are a running joke when this happens.) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My first 'net connection was over a 2400 baud modem to a Unix server. I > used that modem for 3 years before I could afford a 14400 modem. I used > that for several years before getting ADSL at 768 Kbps / 128 Kbps. > Today, I'm on a dedicated SDSL line at 144 Kbps both ways, and sometimes > it feels slow. My first connection was via an old thermal-print teletype with a built-in 110/300 baud acoustic coupler, dialed into a Vax/VMS system at Northeastern University. Took about four seconds to print a single line. Now *that* was painful! - -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iQCVAwUBPdVZ21V9A5rVx7XZAQKFYAQAhWMLJqn/RGNB/oj14rWnguPhG+GAbT63 AD5I/rUdzQUVl9TGogA9laDIYYxR39GI4WqNr4HLmhgGRb8KIOjnUJy3ptimARcJ Mb9Fw1ySYmzp1JzwDgncPeBdEnzn3jBfLmCkHtEvvtYJ6vw4YLJqz6It0qnEkd4y JGr67JpcTME= =g4Pu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
John Abreau said: > >My first connection was via an old thermal-print teletype with a built-in >110/300 baud acoustic coupler, dialed into a Vax/VMS system at Northeastern >University. Took about four seconds to print a single line. Now *that* >was painful! A TI Silent 700? I used to use one to dial into Dartmouth's DTSS. Birthplace of BASIC, named pipes (unix made 'em easier). I eventually bought an external acoustic coupler for $90 (300 baud, no dialing) and hooked up to my Z100. No more paper! Tektronix emulation. Downloading! Uploading! -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:14:40PM -0500, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>
>
> This message isn't intended to start an emacs vs. vi flamewar --
> really, I'm just looking to understand how other people using
> different editors handle these situations.
>
>
>
>
> Emacs has a scheme for handling compilation of programs. I can type
> (something like) M-x compile and the compilation will be run under
> my Emacs process. If there's a compilation error, I can type a few
> keystrokes and Emacs will bring me to the exact source file and line
> number where the compilation failed (even if the file wasn't
> previously loaded into Emacs).
>
> Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
using :make
This will run make and if you have error(s) in your code you can move
through those using vim.
> Emacs has a general scheme for auto-completing keywords. Let's say
> that I have three files loaded into Emacs, two locally and one
> remotely (via a ssh connection, for example). Let's say that the file
> on the remote machine happens to contain the word
> "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious". Let's say that I am currently
> editing one of the local files. By pressing a tiny few keys, I've got
> my emacs setup so I can just type "sup M-/" and
> "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" will magically appear (because
> it is a potential completion).
>
> Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
Yeah, if I do:
:e mai will do the completion.
>
> My Emacs setup is integrated with my source control system -- I can
> check in and check out files without leaving my editor, as well as
> checkin files in bulk.
>
> Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
There are plugins for vim do this.
>
> Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this
> up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly:
>
> \begin{table}
> \begin{center}
> \begin{tabular}{|l|l|r|r|} \hline
> Matrix Size & & System1 & System2 \\ \hline
> 512x512 \\ \hline
> & Serial & 7.195 & 6.210 \\ \hline
> & 2 nodes & 5.622 (5.639*) & 3.300 \\ \hline
> & 4 nodes & 8.481* & 3.930 \\ \hline
> & 8 nodes & 15.399*& 2.34 \\ \hline
> & 16 nodes & 44.017*& 0.77 \\ \hline
> 1024x1024 \\ \hline
> & Serial & 62.466 & 65.620 \\ \hline
> & 2 nodes & 40.017*& 33.450 \\ \hline
> & 4 nodes & 22.202*& 17.430 \\ \hline
> & 8 nodes & 10.788*& 9.550 \\ \hline
> & 16 nodes & 84.652## & 5.360 \\ \hline
> \end{tabular}
> \caption{Foo Timings}
> \label{foo_tab}
> \end{center}
> \end{table}
>
> Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
>
>
>
>
> Suppose I have cut and pasted 5 paragraphs from somewhere else, and
> all of the lines are >80 characters in length. I can easily instruct
> Emacs to just "fill" these paragraphs and wrap all of the lines
> properly.
>
> Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
I'm not sure how to do these two things.
--
---
Steven Knight #include
[EMAIL PROTECTED] IM : skkataim
This was but a prelude; where books are burnt human-beings will be burnt in the end.
--Heinrich Heine, 1820
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--Santayana
There are 10 types of people: those that understand binary and those who do not.
-- unknown
---
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Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 04:57:44PM -0500, Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Emacs has a general scheme for auto-completing keywords. Let's say
> > that I have three files loaded into Emacs, two locally and one
> > remotely (via a ssh connection, for example). Let's say that the file
> > on the remote machine happens to contain the word
> > "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious". Let's say that I am currently
> > editing one of the local files. By pressing a tiny few keys, I've got
> > my emacs setup so I can just type "sup M-/" and
> > "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" will magically appear (because
> > it is a potential completion).
> >
> > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
>
> Yeah, if I do:
>
> :e mai will do the completion.
Actually, I think he means editing the buffer text. This can be
done with ^N ("next", starts looking below) and ^P ("previous", start
looking above). Both can be repeated until the desired match is found.
When editing a C file, this will also search the #include-d headers.
> > Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this
> > up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly:
> > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
I'm not sure I even understand what is being asked (I missed the
original email).
> > Suppose I have cut and pasted 5 paragraphs from somewhere else, and
> > all of the lines are >80 characters in length. I can easily instruct
> > Emacs to just "fill" these paragraphs and wrap all of the lines
> > properly.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
>
> I'm not sure how to do these two things.
I don't what "fill" means, but yes, you can re-wrap lines in vim.
'gq' reformats the selected text.
--
Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
"Linux represents a best-of-breed Unix, that is trusted in mission
critical applications, and -- due to it's open source code -- has
a long term credibility which exceeds many other competitive OS's."
-- Microsoft "Halloween" Document
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Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:08:46PM -0500, Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this > > > up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly: > > > > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this? > > I'm not sure I even understand what is being asked (I missed the > original email). Caught the original message. I'm not sure how I would handle this. I suppose I would probably pipe the selected text through an external filter. I don't know if there's a way more internal to Vim or more direct, but part of the vi methodology is integrating with external programs. -- Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - "Q. I find this a nice feature but it is not according to the documentation. Or is it a BUG? A. Let's call it an accidental feature. :-)" -- Larry Wall, creator of the Perl programming language ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > using :make > > This will run make and if you have error(s) in your code you can move > through those using vim. How automatic is this? Will vim parse the make and compiler output and move you to the correct file and line number? Can the user fix one compilation error and then instruct vim to move me to the next compilation error? Just wondering. > Yeah, if I do: > > :e mai will do the completion. Can you relate this to my "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" example before? Am I correct when I surmise that this wouldn't work between two invocations of vim? Thanks, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 08:20:00AM -0500, Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > using :make
> >
> > This will run make and if you have error(s) in your code you can move
> > through those using vim.
>
> How automatic is this? Will vim parse the make and compiler output
> and move you to the correct file and line number? Can the user fix
> one compilation error and then instruct vim to move me to the next
> compilation error?
Very, yes, and yes (":cn").
> > Yeah, if I do:
> >
> > :e mai will do the completion.
>
> Can you relate this to my "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious"
> example before?
I don't think Steven understood what you were talking about. See my
previous email for ^N and ^P behavior.
> Am I correct when I surmise that this wouldn't work between two
> invocations of vim?
It would work with once instance of vim working of multiple buffers.
I don't think you can complete from any arbitrary running vim process
(that just doesn't seem vim-like), though you can point vim to another
file for completion, such as /usr/dict/*, or another specific file you
are working on. See ':help complete' in Vim.
--
Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
"Parentheses in Perl are like shoes in the Caribbean."
-- Larry Wall, creator of the Perl programming language
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Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:59:36 EST "Derek D. Martin" said: >> Can you relate this to my "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" >> example before? > >Vim can do command completion, but I'm not sure about searching >buffers/files for text insertion completion. OTOH, from what I've >seen thusfar, Bram seems to be making every effort to see that vim has >all the same cool editing tricks that Emacs has, so I wouldn't be >surprised if it could... Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what Kevin meant. Note: He was not talking about command completion. The "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" example refers to word completion in the *edit* buffer. For example, if I had previously typed the word "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" in the edit buffer, I don't want to have to ever type that again. Emacs has the ability to not only create an alias for that word, but to perform auto-completion of the possible words I might type. So, if I'm typing along, and I begin typing the word "su", it might auto-complete uptil 'super' for me. But if I continue typing past 'super' and type 'superc' it will auto-complete "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" for me. Again, this is *not* a command, but an auto-completion *within* the edit buffer of any given file. Addionally, (if I'm not mistaken) this auto-completion will carry over to other buffers I may be editing. Kev, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Oh, also, do not confuse this auto-completion feature with the 'alias' feature which lets you define aliases for various words. The two are completely different. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
In a message dated: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:33:12 EST "Derek D. Martin" said: >> >Vim can do command completion, but I'm not sure about searching >> >buffers/files for text insertion completion. OTOH, from what I've >> >seen thusfar, Bram seems to be making every effort to see that vim has >> >all the same cool editing tricks that Emacs has, so I wouldn't be >> >surprised if it could... >> >At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly: >> Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what Kevin meant. >[snip] >> Emacs has the ability to not only create an alias for that word, but >> to perform auto-completion of the possible words I might type. > >No, we aren't. :) As I said above, I don't (didn't) know if vim >could do this. And Bob (Bell) explained how vim does this (or more >accurately, how to read about how to do it). Then I mis-interpreted your use of the term 'command completion'. I wouldn't refer to this capability within emacs to be command completion, since there are no commands involved. Sorry. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 11:01:58AM -0500, Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At some point hitherto, Bob Bell hath spake thusly: > > It would work with once instance of vim working of multiple buffers. > > I don't think you can complete from any arbitrary running vim process > > (that just doesn't seem vim-like), though you can point vim to another > > file for completion, such as /usr/dict/*, or another specific file you > > are working on. See ':help complete' in Vim. > > Cool! Not that I'm likely to remember how to use this feature... > I figure by the time I type all the keystrokes to do the completion, I > prolly could just as easily have typed the word... In practice, its very easy. I know some people who barely type anymore. For instance, if I hit "ke^P", I get "keystrokes", referencing the quoted text from your email. It's actually very easy to use with just the default configuration. I just discovered ^X^L today, which lets me complete a whole line of text. I've already started using it. -- Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - "Time's fun when you're having flies." -- Kermit the Frog ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what Kevin meant. Note: He was > not talking about command completion. The "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" > example refers to word completion in the *edit* buffer. For example, > if I had previously typed the word "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" > in the edit buffer, I don't want to have to ever type that again. > Emacs has the ability to not only create an alias for that word, but > to perform auto-completion of the possible words I might type. > > So, if I'm typing along, and I begin typing the word "su", it might > auto-complete uptil 'super' for me. But if I continue typing past > 'super' and type 'superc' it will auto-complete > "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious" for me. Again, this is *not* a > command, but an auto-completion *within* the edit buffer of any given > file. Addionally, (if I'm not mistaken) this auto-completion will > carry over to other buffers I may be editing. > > Kev, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Well, just a tiny correction: Instead of continuing to type, I'd probably just run dabbrev-expand again and not even type the extra characters. Less effort that way, methinks. --kevin -- "We will encourage you to develop the three great virtues of a programmer: laziness, impatience and hubris." _Programming Perl_, by Larry Wall et al. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
