Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org It would benefit if you explained yourself in your posts; so that you can prove show silly you are. Gilbert, I hold no brief for Kevin or the KoC. But may I request you to go easy on the labelling bit? Thought one would be done with this kind of stuff in high school or college :-) Reena Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T > > Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports > > Get your free subscription at: > > http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org > > > Hi Kevin, > > It would benefit if you explained yourself in your posts; so that you can > prove show silly you are. This is a lot better than your hit-and-run attacks > or your smears. > > I was referring to YOUR standards of decency as an atheist. I then in the > very next sentence, went on to compare YOUR standards to my OTHER atheist > friends. (see below) Yet with your tunnel anti-Catholic mind, you > misinterpret my writings, just like you do the other writings. You compared > the standards of my atheist friends with my religious friends, based on your > miss-representation. Then shamelessly, you give me your bogus reasoning. > Well I am not surprised with your misrepresentations and your explanations. > I have mentioned to you this before. Your writings are a comedy, that I could > enjoy this weekend. > > Your response about the Irish continues to be a non-response, that only you > can make sense. Why would the Irish join secret societies when they could > drink their Guinness in public? What is wrong with joining societies like the > Masons, Rotarians, Lions, Elk lodge etc.? George Washington and many founding > fathers of the USA were Masons. > > As regards the KC fighting issues about "homosexuality" at the behest of the > Vatican. Perhaps next, you will write the Evangelicals, Baptists etc. etc. > are also stooges of the Vatican. Why would one not expect a Catholic / > Christian institution to support "biblical teachings"? Curiously the > immorality of homosexuality is what you specifically did not want your > children (under 20 years) to be exposed to. Did your kids call you a stooge > of the Vatican? > > After I finish laughing at your inconsistencies ... I would like to save my > neurons for a more logical dialogue. Thank you for the comedy. This is my > last post on this thread. > Kind Regards, GL > > -- Kevin Saldanha > > I am also pleased to know that most of Gilbert's atheist friends have much > higher morals and decency standards than his religious ones. He would be > pleased to know that these standards were attained by free thinking and > contemplation, primarily based on empathy we evolved over the last 6 million > years, and were not handed down from a supernatural being carved on stone > tablets. > > Clergy have been admonished for threating ex-communication and denial of the > eucharist to parishoners who supported same-sex human rights in contravention > of biblical teachings. The KoC has therefore taken it upon themselves to > 'fight the good fight' for the faith. > > -- Gilbert Lawrnce wrote: > > I asked you a simple question. You did not have an answer. > > Neither could you give me three to five (or even one) example of KC doing the > bidding of the Vatican contrary to the interest of Catholic Americans or > America. Do you think American Catholics are unable on their own to evaluate > and articulate morality? > > Your string of anti-Catholic posts, as an ex-Catholic and an atheist, are an > insensitive, offensive claptrap. Don't you have any shame? Most > atheists I know have much higher morals and decency standards.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Hi Kevin Thank you for your considered response to Gilbert. I'd like to make just two observations: a) I assume that it would be reasonable to expect Gilbert to agree with the last line in your long post.."Education with factual evidence based on the scientific method is the only way to redeem ourselves in this world". This assumes however that, one may indeed want to be redeemed from early religious indoctrination and the bigotry and blinkers it generally provides for life. b) I had run into a Knight of Columbus (fully togged up including sword in scabbard), at a Goan Association SFX social many years ago next to the Catholic Cathedral in Victoria, London. He was the only one in this strange fancy dress and in utter astonishment, I actually blurted out within earshot of some, asking why this bloke had worn the "fancy dress"? Needless to say, some in the conservative crowd ( around the Cardinal who was present), were not amused by my cheek! However, I did get a chance to have a five minute conversation with the Cardinal in a one to one situation. He expressed much praise, to me, for the Catholic Goans in London. But I did put him right by disclosing, to his seeming astonishment, but clear understanding, that many Catholic Goans carried caste racism in their hearts and minds. Indeed, as much as Gilbert dislikes my consistent reference to caste racism among the Catholic Goans, I hope to publish a substantive article in the international Catholic Press on this issue. It will then be up to Gilbert, the Archbishop (or anyone else) to choose to refute what I say in the same international media. What I have always found strange is Gilbert's insistence that caste racism among Catholic Goans is insignificant when there is so much evidence for it that, "it is like oxygen, in the very air Goans breathe in Goa" and as recounted to me by a Goanetter for whom I have much respect. Moreover, while Catholicism says "love thy neighbour as thyself", caste racism actually wants people to despise those lower down on a 'social scale' within a peculiar immutable social structure having absolutely no scientific validity, Further, in my view, it is the underpinning factor determining much lack of social solidarity among Goans except at a very superficial level and is also what the Catholic Church in Goa has condoned for generations when it should have known better in its claim as a moral force. But enough of this for now! There will be more on this from me when I get a chance to reply to posts from Gilbert and another Goanetter reasonably soon and when I can properly get back to Plain Text that has bugged me for some time. Cornel DaCosta People's/Proletariat Vaddo, DR04 CDC, London, UK. Kevin Saldanha wrote: Dear Gilbert, Education with factual evidence based on the scientific method is the only way to redeem ourselves in this world.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Dear Gilbert, It appears that there is more than just global warming, alluded to by George, that has affected your coherence on GN. I am glad that I was able to afford you some comic relief in my last post and thank you for giving me the last word with this one. I do concede, however, that I deliberately misrepresented your comparison of me to your other atheist friends, however unlikely it is that you could have any. I was just yanking your chain for which I apologize. You also seem to have missed the whole point of joining the KoC if all they are to you is a bunch of Guinness swilling louts (which is the least of their faults ;-). Unlike the other secular charitable organisations you mentioned, the KoC specifically have the promotion of Catholic values as one of their major aims, proudly referring themselves as "the strong right arm of the Church" on their website. http://www.kofc.org/un/about/history/index.cfm I don't believe that it would be an understatement to compare them to the fundamentalist factions of any other major religion ie. the Hinduvta/RSS of the Vatican. Although they position themselves as a Catholic Mens Charity, not every council is a registered charity, some even laundering their fund raising proceeds through affiliated parishs which enjoy tax-free status with blessing from the Lord. Much of these funds go to support Vatican initiatives against birth control, abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia, same-sex marriage etc. It is no coincidence that they were named 'Knights', dress up in military outfits complete with swords and act as if they are gearing up for another crusade. Except this one is to keep the faithful in the dark by blinding them with scripture. Their political agenda is hardly a secret "In the United States, the Knights of Columbus often adopts socially conservative positions on public issues. They have adopted resolutions advocating a Culture of Life,[37] defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman,[38] and protecting religious expression in public schools, government, and voluntary organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. The Order also funded a postcard campaign in 2005 in an attempt to stop the Canadian parliament from legalizing same-sex marriage." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus#Political_activities In case you missed the last line of the previous paragraph, their 'attempt' failed miserably, making Canada one of the few countries to legalise the homosexual's human right to happiness of a court santioned marriage both at a provincial and federal level. This is an issue that is currently splitting the Anglican Communion pitting the North Americans against the Conservative African bishops. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search the archives for the reference you quoted about my views on homosexuality and their impact on my children. For the record, in my opinion, the Church is completely wrong on their views on homosexuality and for that matter, on sexuality in general - which they have equated to morality. I have been outspoken in my support for homosexual rights, something which encompasses lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered persons. I would encourage all homophobic Catholics to educate themselves on these biological conditions. There would be no reason for me to shield my children from the facts. We can only face our own bigotry when we strive to rise above it. It is not a terminal condition of our human fate. Education with factual evidence based on the scientific method is the only way to redeem ourselves in this world. Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. ~~~ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 4:06:09 -0700 From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus ... I was referring to YOUR standards of decency as an atheist. I then in the very next sentence, went on to compare YOUR standards to my OTHER atheist friends. ... Your response about the Irish continues to be a non-response, that only you can make sense. Why would the Irish join secret societies when they could drink their Guinness in public? What is wrong with joining societies like the Masons, Rotarians, Lions, Elk lodge etc.? George Washington and many founding fathers of the USA were Masons. As regards the KC fighting issues about "homosexuality" at the behest of the Vatican. Perhaps next, you will write the Evangelicals, Baptists etc. etc. are also stooge
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > After I finish laughing at your inconsistencies ... > I would like to save my neurons for a more logical > dialogue. Thank you for the comedy. This is my last > post on this thread. GL, My congratulations! I am especially impressed that you did not drag in Goan grandmothers to defend your point. Mervyn3.0 Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Gilbert, What the Goanet archives will show is that you are lying through your teeth in denying your adverse attitude towards homosexuality. If you are a progressive, I must be a brahmachari. I hope Kevin refutes your bogus accusations against him. From what I have read, he believes in the immorality of homosexuality as much as you believe in progressive values. Cheers, Santosh --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Santosh, > > I am only responding to this, because like you, > other Goanetters may have missed the basis of my > post. It is wise as a scientist not to opine > without knowing the facts. As a doctor, looking a > Past History is important. > > Please look up the Goanet archives for Kevin > Saldanha's statements on homosexuality, in his home. > You will find the basis of my comment. It has > nothing to do with my views on homosexuality, which > are none to speak off. My comments have all to do > with Kevin's inconsistencies and using it to smear > KC. > > BTW, the topic of the thread is "Knight of Columbus" > and Kevin's attack on it. Please do not try and > change the subject, as you try to defend your > anti-Catholic atheist friend. I know it is just your > old trick.:=))) > > On another, but related thread, I was amazed to see > your response to Fred. Your clear division of Black > and White (and Us against Them) makes you an > ideologue (to avoid using any informatory term). You > are not a middle of the road pragmatic, like most of > us progressives. > Kind Regards, GL >
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Hi Santosh, I am only responding to this, because like you, other Goanetters may have missed the basis of my post. It is wise as a scientist not to opine without knowing the facts. As a doctor, looking a Past History is important. Please look up the Goanet archives for Kevin Saldanha's statements on homosexuality, in his home. You will find the basis of my comment. It has nothing to do with my views on homosexuality, which are none to speak off. My comments have all to do with Kevin's inconsistencies and using it to smear KC. BTW, the topic of the thread is "Knight of Columbus" and Kevin's attack on it. Please do not try and change the subject, as you try to defend your anti-Catholic atheist friend. I know it is just your old trick.:=))) On another, but related thread, I was amazed to see your response to Fred. Your clear division of Black and White (and Us against Them) makes you an ideologue (to avoid using any informatory term). You are not a middle of the road pragmatic, like most of us progressives. Kind Regards, GL --- Santosh Helekar Once again, we have that pathetic anti-social parochial prejudice raising its ugly head. Not only is the above poster abusing a certain segment of our society because of its normal natural predisposition, but he claims to know how Kevin is raising his children. This attitude would be no less despicable even if the predisposition were abnormal. Imagine a physician believing that his patient is immoral because of his diabetes! --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Curiously the immorality of homosexuality is what you specifically did not > want your children (under 20 years) to be exposed to. >
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Kevin, > > It would benefit if you explained yourself in your posts; so that you can > prove show silly you > are. This is a lot better than your hit-and-run attacks or your smears. Kevin's comments have neither been hit-and-run attacks nor smears. I had suggested to Gilbert in a previous post to loosen the collar, not tighten it. His collar is now becoming a noose. Self mutilation is not a pretty sight. Besides yoga and meditation, are there any other ways we can help Gilbert relax? Gilbert, try some limboo pani or mosumbi juice, add a pinch of salt. Very refreshing in the summer heat which has gotten under your skin. It's not really the atheists who are bothering you, it is the summer heat. See, already you feel better. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org --- Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Curiously the immorality of homosexuality is what > you specifically did not want your children (under > 20 years) to be exposed to. > Once again, we have that pathetic anti-social parochial prejudice raising its ugly head. Not only is the above poster abusing a certain segment of our society because of its normal natural predisposition, but he claims to know how Kevin is raising his children. This attitude would be no less despicable even if the predisposition were abnormal. Imagine a physician believing that his patient is immoral because of his diabetes! Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Hi Kevin, It would benefit if you explained yourself in your posts; so that you can prove show silly you are. This is a lot better than your hit-and-run attacks or your smears. I was referring to YOUR standards of decency as an atheist. I then in the very next sentence, went on to compare YOUR standards to my OTHER atheist friends. (see below) Yet with your tunnel anti-Catholic mind, you misinterpret my writings, just like you do the other writings. You compared the standards of my atheist friends with my religious friends, based on your miss-representation. Then shamelessly, you give me your bogus reasoning. Well I am not surprised with your misrepresentations and your explanations. I have mentioned to you this before. Your writings are a comedy, that I could enjoy this weekend. Your response about the Irish continues to be a non-response, that only you can make sense. Why would the Irish join secret societies when they could drink their Guinness in public? What is wrong with joining societies like the Masons, Rotarians, Lions, Elk lodge etc.? George Washington and many founding fathers of the USA were Masons. As regards the KC fighting issues about "homosexuality" at the behest of the Vatican. Perhaps next, you will write the Evangelicals, Baptists etc. etc. are also stooges of the Vatican. Why would one not expect a Catholic / Christian institution to support "biblical teachings"? Curiously the immorality of homosexuality is what you specifically did not want your children (under 20 years) to be exposed to. Did your kids call you a stooge of the Vatican? After I finish laughing at your inconsistencies ... I would like to save my neurons for a more logical dialogue. Thank you for the comedy. This is my last post on this thread. Kind Regards, GL -- Kevin Saldanha I am also pleased to know that most of Gilbert's atheist friends have much higher morals and decency standards than his religious ones. He would be pleased to know that these standards were attained by free thinking and contemplation, primarily based on empathy we evolved over the last 6 million years, and were not handed down from a supernatural being carved on stone tablets. Clergy have been admonished for threating ex-communication and denial of the eucharist to parishoners who supported same-sex human rights in contravention of biblical teachings. The KoC has therefore taken it upon themselves to 'fight the good fight' for the faith. -- Gilbert Lawrnce wrote: I asked you a simple question. You did not have an answer. Neither could you give me three to five (or even one) example of KC doing the bidding of the Vatican contrary to the interest of Catholic Americans or America. Do you think American Catholics are unable on their own to evaluate and articulate morality? Your string of anti-Catholic posts, as an ex-Catholic and an atheist, are an insensitive, offensive claptrap. Don't you have any shame? Most atheists I know have much higher morals and decency standards.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org > From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> to Kevin Saldanha > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus > > Hi Kevin, > Your string of anti-Catholic posts, as an ex-Catholic and an atheist, > are an insensitive, offensive claptrap. You are utilizing your > language skills and your self-acclaimed morality to display a showy, > insincere empty talk. Your contemptible, crude and deceptive attacks, > on the religion you divorced yourself from, are intended only to get > an applause or notice. Don't you have any shame? Most atheists I know > have much higher morals and decency standards. Is the summer heat getting to Gilbert? In the Southern Hemisphere it is cooler at this time. Perhaps a change of venue might help? Gilbert, loosen the collar button, loosen the belt. Don't let your blood pressure go up, I read an article which says high blood pressure can lead to serious medical complications. Relax. Try some yoga, meditation even if it is considered non-Catholic. There is no harm in losing an argument with Kevin or anyone else or being wrong each time. Getting upset gives the impression of being a sore loser. Except for Catholics and members of Knights of Columbus, who is perfect? After all 5 billion non-Catholics on this planet are sinners, give them a break. Even among Catholics there are sinners, why get so uptight and sensitive? Are you running to be Pope? Give up, you are not European. Regards, George
[Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org IT IS TIME THE CATHOLIC CHURCH INVENTS A BUSINESS BIBLE, WHERE WHEN WE PRAY IN ALL GOOD FAITH AND SAY "FATHER GIVE US OUR DAILY BREAD, AND FORGIVE US OUR T AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO ..." THIS PRAYER IS A POWERFUL BLESSING INDEED & IT WORKS IF WE WORK IT. WE WILL BE BLESSED IN THE ACT OF PROVIDING FOR OURSELVES AND EVENTUALLY BEING SELF SUFFICIENT IN ORDER TO GIVE THE NEEDY.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Hi Gilbert, other KoC members and devout Catholics on this list, I sincerely apologise to all who I might have offended with my display of showy, insincere empty talk. My contemptible, crude and deceptive attacks, on the religion I have divorced myself from, were not intended only to get an applause or notice. I do have a little shame left which is fast evaporating but have grown a thicker skin since my last foray and unsavoury experience on GoaNet. I am also pleased to know that most of Gilbert's atheist friends have much higher morals and decency standards than his religious ones. He would be pleased to know that these standards were attained by free thinking and contemplation, primarily based on empathy we evolved over the last 6 million years, and were not handed down from a supernatural being carved on stone tablets. In answer to your original question, the 'poor Irish immigrants' were joining other secret societies prevalent in their communities as the Catholic Church in Boston could not cope with social-net programs they had in place to handle those escaping the potato famine. http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Irish.html Father McGiveney initially had great resistance from the Church hierarchy to creating a Catholic secret society as they (rightly) saw it as an incursion into their domain. That tension still exists today. http://www.amazon.com/Parish-Priest-McGivney-American-Catholicism/dp/0060776846 To answer your second question, unlike Canada, the US has a constitutional obligation to keep religion out of politics and vice-versa. Clergy have been admonished for threating ex-communication and denial of the eucharist to parishoners who supported same-sex human rights in contravention of biblical teachings. The KoC has therefore taken it upon themselves to 'fight the good fight' for the faith. I was surprised that you didn't take offense to the reference to the Masonic origins of KoC rituals but then, you probably already knew that. Regards, Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. [entire message retained for reference] Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:16:22 -0700 From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus Hi Kevin, I asked you a simple question. You did not have an answer. Neither could you give me three to five (or even one) example of KC doing the bidding of the Vatican contrary to the interest of Catholic Americans or America. Do you think American Catholics are unable on their own to evaluate and articulate morality? The efforts of KC to financially and socially help poor Catholics are very commendable. It is very likely you (and other ungrateful and perennial Church-bashers on Goanet) were the beneficiary of the kindness and sacrifices of the KC and the Catholic Church during your upbringing and in time of crises. Your string of anti-Catholic posts, as an ex-Catholic and an atheist, are an insensitive, offensive claptrap. You are utilizing your language skills and your self-acclaimed morality to display a showy, insincere empty talk. Your contemptible, crude and deceptive attacks, on the religion you divorced yourself from, are intended only to get an applause or notice. Don't you have any shame? Most atheists I know have much higher morals and decency standards. Regards, GL Kevin Saldanha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Read the book 'Parish Priest', Gilbert. Then read 'The Hiram Key' by Knight and Lomas - Gilbert Lawrence: Can the author tell us where the "poor Irish immigrants from the church" were defecting to? --- "Kevin Saldanha" as a prior member of this 'men's club' who has been sworn to secrecy, I thought I'd pass on some history which may not be available through Google. a secret society that was created to stem the defection of poor Irish immigrants from the Church. Fr. Michael McGiveney used the model of the most successful secret society, Freemasonry, to create a Catholic men's organization that would look after the financial interests of the poor Catholic families in the Boston area. The fraternal brotherhood of the Knights of Columbus has also morphed into a formidable political force, using their influence through the dwindling Catholic congregations to promote the political agenda of the Vatican without incurring the penalties which would arise from overt interference by the Church into matters of the State. -- Be impeccable with your word - Don Miguel Ruiz http://www.nderf.org/4AgreementsReview.htm
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Hi Kevin, I asked you a simple question. You did not have an answer. Neither could you give me three to five (or even one) example of KC doing the bidding of the Vatican contrary to the interest of Catholic Americans or America. Do you think American Catholics are unable on their own to evaluate and articulate morality? The efforts of KC to financially and socially help poor Catholics are very commendable. It is very likely you (and other ungrateful and perennial Church-bashers on Goanet) were the beneficiary of the kindness and sacrifices of the KC and the Catholic Church during your upbringing and in time of crises. Your string of anti-Catholic posts, as an ex-Catholic and an atheist, are an insensitive, offensive claptrap. You are utilizing your language skills and your self-acclaimed morality to display a showy, insincere empty talk. Your contemptible, crude and deceptive attacks, on the religion you divorced yourself from, are intended only to get an applause or notice. Don't you have any shame? Most atheists I know have much higher morals and decency standards. Regards, GL Kevin Saldanha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Read the book 'Parish Priest', Gilbert. Then read 'The Hiram Key' by Knight and Lomas - Gilbert Lawrence: Can the author tell us where the "poor Irish immigrants from the church" were defecting to? --- "Kevin Saldanha" as a prior member of this 'men's club' who has been sworn to secrecy, I thought I'd pass on some history which may not be available through Google. a secret society that was created to stem the defection of poor Irish immigrants from the Church. Fr. Michael McGiveney used the model of the most successful secret society, Freemasonry, to create a Catholic men's organization that would look after the financial interests of the poor Catholic families in the Boston area. The fraternal brotherhood of the Knights of Columbus has also morphed into a formidable political force, using their influence through the dwindling Catholic congregations to promote the political agenda of the Vatican without incurring the penalties which would arise from overt interference by the Church into matters of the State.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Read the book 'Parish Priest', Gilbert. Then read 'The Hiram Key' by Knight and Lomas Kevin -- Be impeccable with your word - Don Miguel Ruiz http://www.nderf.org/4AgreementsReview.htm
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/Bhandare
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org --- "C. A. Bhandare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The latest response by Selma to Sunith is very > interesting > > Selma seems to have given up all her pretense about > secularism and tolerance and is now openly appealing > to suniths "loyalty" to the faith in order to make > him > support the horrible excesses of the catholic church > > Nothing that i wrote about the churchs coverup of > pedophilia, its complicity in mass murder, and other > sordid things was false > Kindly state ur facts if you think otherwise > Bhandare, Since my secular credentials are at stake here, let me respond to this post. First of all let's not mix up loyalty, courage and secularism. The first two are qualities you ingrain in yourself through discipline, the latter is an ideology you embrace but has been embraced by many cowards too. Afterall Saddam Hussein too was a secularist. Secondly, the reason I question Sunith's loyalty is not because (my) religion is at stake. Catholicism will survive well into the 21st century regardless. It is infact loyalty to the Goan Catholic community that I ask of Sunith and the reason I do this is precisely because I know it us under attack from a very fundamentalist, fringe element of society that unfortunately has crept into the fabric of India's social consciousness. Thirdly, despite all your tirades against the Catholic Church and its so call excesses of mass murder and mayhem, I have not once spoken in counterpoint detailing the excesses of by-gone Hindu warlords. Do you know the reason why? Because I simply don't care. We can play this game till the cows come how and it would serve no purpose. I'm not interested in the ridiculousness of religion. I'm interested in the preservation of my community, which if you come from the heartland of the Salcete, is defined by the Church, the Konkani language and a distinct blended culture. If you attack any of these, you will be held accountable. Now if you'll excuse me, I have the Last King of Scotland, to watch on DVD. Another mass murderer, I believe. selma No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org I am a member of the Knights of Columbus. The following is a great example of a "brain dead" post, because most of it is untrue. Can the author tell us where the "poor Irish immigrants from the church" were defecting to? Kind Regards, GL --- "Kevin Saldanha" as a prior member of this 'men's club' who has been sworn to secrecy, I thought I'd pass on some history which may not be available through Google. a secret society that was created to stem the defection of poor Irish immigrants from the Church. Fr. Michael McGiveney used the model of the most successful secret society, Freemasonry, to create a Catholic men's organization that would look after the financial interests of the poor Catholic families in the Boston area. The fraternal brotherhood of the Knights of Columbus has also morphed into a formidable political force, using their influence through the dwindling Catholic congregations to promote the political agenda of the Vatican without incurring the penalties which would arise from overt interference by the Church into matters of the State.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/to FN
WWW.GOANET.ORG *** A N N O U N C E M E N T Launching Goanet-sports - Dedicated to Sports in Goa and Goans in Sports Get your free subscription at: http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-sports-goanet.org Selma, I would think the goal is *really* to make you *defensive* so that we can safely shift the debate from current-day to 400 years back. So why would you want that to succeed? As far as there being an "attach on the Church" goes, i would say if criticism is inaccurate, then we can safely ignore it. If it is true, then we need to do something to improve the situation that is being described. Motives are important too. Do you believe C.A.Bhandare and his team -- who have suddenly descended on Goanet as if on cue -- sincely wants to improve the role of religion in our world with his selective critiques, or does he just want to justify current-day injustices by pointing to (real or imagined or exaggerated) injustices from centuries ago? I think every religion, ideology (including 'secular' ones), political party, linguistic and ethnic group has some dark and some positive sides to it. We can find what we want, depending on where we go digging. Frankly, I wouldn't decide my approach based on the critique of people trying to score points and justify dubious current-day ideologies by pointing to the past. In my view, *every* religion (and ideology too) needs to reform and improve itself, so that it can play a more pro-people and positive role in our planet. -FN [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/to FN Carvalho elisabeth_car at yahoo.comensive. - Your darn right Frederick. I am defensive. You think a red-blooded shastikaan like me would take an attack on the church lying down? It's not about my God is better than yours, it's about exposing hate mongers who are out to spread lies about other communities be it based on caste, occupation or religion. I'm all for reforming religion from within and without. Infact I'm for totally banning religion influencing public life altogether and keeping it a strictly private affair. Public religion has caused too much destruction in this world. selma -- FN: Frederick Noronha Phone 0091-832-2409490 http://wikiwikiweb.de/MyContacts
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org George, Selma, Sunith, CA and others... With everything else said under this subject heading and as a prior member of this 'men's club' who has been sworn to secrecy, I thought I'd pass on some history which may not be available through Google. For all their shiny armaments, the Knights are NOT followers of 'murderous' Christopher Columbus but used his illustrious(?) Catholic name to give credibility to a secret society that was created to stem the defection of poor Irish immigrants from the Church. Fr. Michael McGiveney used the model of the most successful secret society, Freemasonry, to create a Catholic men's organization that would look after the financial interests of the poor Catholic families in the Boston area. This insurance program is now highly rated and is the mainstay of the Knights financial solvency. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060776846 The fraternal brotherhood of the Knights of Columbus has also morphed into a formidable political force, using their influence through the dwindling Catholic congregations to promote the political agenda of the Vatican without incurring the penalties which would arise from overt interference by the Church into matters of the State. They were largely responsible for the insertion of the words "under God" into the otherwise secular American Pledge of Allegiance. http://atheism.about.com/b/a/004533.htm Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. -- Be impeccable with your word - Don Miguel Ruiz http://www.nderf.org/4AgreementsReview.htm
Re: [Goanet] Knights of columbus- Fred
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org On 23/06/07, C. A. Bhandare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Fred: ..Gabe Averthanus and others have openly supported the act of Churchill wrt INOX and Da vinci code but are qucik to condemn bajrang dal Of course Gabe has given some convoluted explanation > for it too but even dara singh has one for burning > Staines alive > > Regards > > C A Bhandare QUESTION: Please quote me with my convoluted explanation. Please also show me where I have supported the action of Churchill w.r.t Inox. Bhandare, just flings muck and hope that it sticks ! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England
[Goanet] Knights of Columbus
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org The latest response by Selma to Sunith is very interesting Selma seems to have given up all her pretense about secularism and tolerance and is now openly appealing to suniths "loyalty" to the faith in order to make him support the horrible excesses of the catholic church Nothing that i wrote about the churchs coverup of pedophilia, its complicity in mass murder, and other sordid things was false Kindly state ur facts if you think otherwise C A Bhandare Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
[Goanet] Knights of columbus- Fred
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Dear Fred: Please take some time if u could, to carefully read my posts At no point in time have I justified any act of violence commited by the hindu right wing nor have I given any lengthy explanations as to why Manu or the caste system or the sati was right Please dont try to create the impression that I am trying to make it "my religion is better than yours" issue here My point has simply been that those who claim to stand for religious tolerance and pluralism and liberalism should condemn Manu and Francis xavier using the same yardstick One cant be a "apostle of peace" and "product of his time" while other a racist bigot Gabe Averthanus and others have openly supported the act of Churchill wrt INOX and Da vinci code but are qucik to condemn bajrang dal Of course Gabe has given some convoluted explanation for it too but even dara singh has one for burning Staines alive Regards C A Bhandare Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Not Pagans !! The Picts, Keltics(Kaltik), Skaddas(Skodda, Scotta), Kalidunyans(Caledonia), Vaskan-Vasc-Basque, all Tamil speakers, had beaten the "Aryan" Dunariyas-Ugariths to Europe by at least 3000 years. That early genuswipe by our cousins is a little secret that Bhandare and i will keep from all of you. Basqueman SFX was able to preach in Tamil just three months after arriving on the Coromandel ! eric. Sunith Velho St. Columba was also apparently a mass murder, but trivial matters like these are not important to the cannonisation process of the Church if mass murder is followed by mass conversions.
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/to FN
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org --- "Frederick [FN] Noron ha * फरà¥à¤¡à¤° à¥à¤ नॠरà¥à¤¨à¤¯à¤¾" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Selma, you're too defensive. - Your darn right Frederick. I am defensive. You think a red-blooded shastikaan like me would take an attack on the church lying down? It's not about my God is better than yours, it's about exposing hate mongers who are out to spread lies about other communities be it based on caste, occupation or religion. I'm all for reforming religion from within and without. Infact I'm for totally banning religion influencing public life altogether and keeping it a strictly private affair. Public religion has caused too much destruction in this world. selma Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/to Sunith
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org Selma, you're too defensive. And all those guys who want to cloud the issue -- by making it a my-religion-is-better-than-yours thing (instead of accepting that we all need to work for reform of our own problems) are managing to corner you! I'd say, forget about the rest... what we need most of all is reform within our own 'homes', and ensuring that we are all better able to cope with the changing times. We needn't be apologetic about the past. Let's take the good and the bad -- both -- traditions we inherit. If we are honest about this, it might help us cope with the future in a better manner. FN On 23/06/07, Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -Sunith, > We're all very impressed with your ability to google > information and spew it out. Given the tone of recent > discussions on goanet, the accusations made about the > Church and the Catholic community, and the killings of > priests and nuns that take place in India, precisely > because of this misconception, what an inappropriate > statement to make. > > Not one word of chastisement came from you despite the > many things written about the Church, Catholics and > even Muslims of late on goanet. > > Of all the things money might have thought you, > loyalty and courage could not be amongst them. > > selma -- FN: Frederick Noronha Phone 0091-832-2409490 http://wikiwikiweb.de/MyContacts
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus/to Sunith
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org --- Sunith Velho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > St. Columba was also apparently a mass murder, but > trivial matters like > these are not important to the cannonisation process > of the Church if mass > murder is followed by mass conversions. > - -Sunith, We're all very impressed with your ability to google information and spew it out. Given the tone of recent discussions on goanet, the accusations made about the Church and the Catholic community, and the killings of priests and nuns that take place in India, precisely because of this misconception, what an inappropriate statement to make. Not one word of chastisement came from you despite the many things written about the Church, Catholics and even Muslims of late on goanet. Of all the things money might have thought you, loyalty and courage could not be amongst them. selma Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [Goanet] Knights of Columbus
http://www.GOANET.org International Cuisine Conference on Traditional Asian Diet Panaji, Goa, September 2-5, 2007 - http://www.indologygoa.in Online Media Partner: http://www.goanet.org The Order of the Knights of Columbus is the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organisation, lobbying by this organisation led to the inclusion of the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance of the USA. It is named after Christopher Columbus, whose 'discovery' of America paved way for the subsequent genocide of Native Americans. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus St. Columba was also apparently a mass murder, but trivial matters like these are not important to the cannonisation process of the Church if mass murder is followed by mass conversions. [quote]Diarmuid was defeated at Cuildreimhne, Co. Sligo and Columba was blamed for the hundreds of dead. When a synod called on him to make amends by converting an equal number of pagans, he opted to work among the Picts of Scotland.[end of quote] http://www.irelandseye.com/irish/people/saints/columba.shtm Sunith Velho >As to your last sentence, I cannot think what you're >saying. Perhaps you mean Knights of St Columba. Please >see >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Saint_Columba >and further, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Columba. >I see no references of this monk being a mass >murderer. >Gabriel de Figueiredo
