Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

I am none of the below and thanks for making it about me.  I always
enjoy ad hominem attacks, it is a sign of a weak position.  The last
thing I believe is that the government is always right, you could not be
further from the truth.  I am also not the product of any warped era
(whatever that is).I am also not an addict, never have been. 

I will ask you the same thing, you don't think punishment does not deter
drug use?  That is just plain silly.  If mary jane were legal and sold
at the local drug store there would be at least 2x as many people
smoking it.  You think some of those who are not smoking might be
abstaining because of fear of reprisals?  LOL

-Gary



warpmedia said the following on 8/25/2005 9:26 PM:

> Let me go out on a limb here and assume Gary is either:
>
> A. Old enough to be like my booze hound grandparents who thought the
> government was always right.
> B. Just young enough to be the product of their warped era.
> C. A staunch conservative (though so is William F Buckley & he gets it).
> D. A former addict who can only see things as none or abuse.
>
> Drugs are not hard to find & the laws serve to punish, not deter or help.
>
> Now I am out of this thread. Sorry again Jim, I was out all day &
> missed the action here. =)
>
> Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> Draw that conclusion for me Hayes.  You do not think that punishment
>> serves to prevent?  I also find it interesting that you would turn to
>> Liddy to try and find support for your position..
>>
>> -Gary
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Like all the other drugs from Pharmaceutical companies?  Now, that is a
good one.  Add to it all the taxes that are sure to be imposed and all
of the legal obligation that comes from being part of the delivery
chain.  Low prices are a dream.   BTW, do you always find it necessary
to be so condescending? 

-Gary



Julian Hale said the following on 8/25/2005 8:17 PM:

> There was also a thriving, legal business for MJ, opiates, cocaine,
> etc. before prohibition.  Again, no difference at all.  Legal drugs
> will come from, and this may shock you, pharmaceutical companies...
> since there is no patent, prices will be low.
>
> Julian
>
> At 12:52 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>
>> Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
>> prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
>> come from?
>>
>> -Gary
>
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

I am aware of the history, I just think the situations are very
different regardless of what you might believe.  Think about it, the
drugs are legal do you think all the illegal fields will be plowed
under?  Do you think they will stop growing their crop?  Why would they? 

-Gary



Julian Hale said the following on 8/25/2005 8:14 PM:

> Crack open a history book.  What happened after the end of prohibition
> is what makes us think that ending drug/MJ prohibition will make them
> walk away.  The is no difference between the two.  However,
> excessively high taxation will create a black market.
>
> Julian
>
> At 12:24 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>
>> That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
>> legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
>> organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
>> the drugs??  LOL.
>>
>> -Gary
>
>
>

Re: [H] Weird one for you...

[warpmedia]

The Pink Floyd "Pulse" album came with one of these. =)



joeuser wrote:
I'm looking for a red LED that flashes about once a minute and is 
powered by 2 AA batteries. I got one from a display box that was used 
for a web camera or something. It's on a pretty small board. I'd like 
something just like it. Where do you find something like this?

[H] Weird one for you...

[joeuser]

I'm looking for a red LED that flashes about once a minute and is 
powered by 2 AA batteries. I got one from a display box that was used 
for a web camera or something. It's on a pretty small board. I'd like 
something just like it. Where do you find something like this?



--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] blast from the past

[warpmedia]

Yes, but i had them before you did, :raspberry:!


Ben Ruset wrote:

Blah. That low tech was high tech back then. And it was fine.

My old Pro Audio Spectrum 16 and Diamond Suprasonic Modem with status 
LCD display were the cats meow.


warpmedia wrote:


That's looks cool!

LTV was hot shit along with Siffle & Olie back then. I miss the 
mid-90's (except for the low tech, hehe).

Re: [H] Gas prices

[warpmedia]

Let me go out on a limb here and assume Gary is either:

A. Old enough to be like my booze hound grandparents who thought the 
government was always right.

B. Just young enough to be the product of their warped era.
C. A staunch conservative (though so is William F Buckley & he gets it).
D. A former addict who can only see things as none or abuse.

Drugs are not hard to find & the laws serve to punish, not deter or help.

Now I am out of this thread. Sorry again Jim, I was out all day & missed 
the action here. =)


Gary Udstrand wrote:

Draw that conclusion for me Hayes.  You do not think that punishment
serves to prevent?  I also find it interesting that you would turn to
Liddy to try and find support for your position..

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[warpmedia]

Last post (sorry Jim).

No I don't, but then I already am paying for the current non-productive 
war(s) effort, aren't I?


People are flawed, some more than others, so it's not as simple as "it's 
your fault, take it like a (wo)man" law or health policy.


Nuff BSing, when do we get that new 3D storage tech???

Gary VanderMolen wrote:
The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from 
cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. 
Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped 
medically, not jailed.



Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive
medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't.
I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either.
Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. 
People need to take ownership of their own problems and

learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime.

Gary VanderMolen

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Julian Hale]

There was also a thriving, legal business for MJ, opiates, cocaine, 
etc. before prohibition.  Again, no difference at all.  Legal drugs 
will come from, and this may shock you, pharmaceutical companies... 
since there is no patent, prices will be low.


Julian

At 12:52 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:

Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Julian Hale]

Crack open a history book.  What happened after the end of 
prohibition is what makes us think that ending drug/MJ prohibition 
will make them walk away.  The is no difference between the 
two.  However, excessively high taxation will create a black market.


Julian

At 12:24 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote:

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.

-Gary

Re: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[Greg Sevart]

It is possible, though I too would suspect media quality as the root cause. 
However, write quality is the output of a very tight equation based on both 
the drive (and firmware revision, for that matter) and the media. It is 
quite possible that a different burner would perform better with that media, 
and just as possible that your drive would do better on different media. The 
thing to remember, though, is that the best results are usually obtained by 
using (NEC, Pioneer, Plextor) + (Verbatim DataLifePlus, TaiyoYuden).


Greg

- Original Message - 
From: "Mesdaq, Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive



I am using a sony drive to burn images. So do you think that might be
the cause of the skipping on peoples dvd players? But they said it
played fine first time and then started skipping on the 2nd and 3rd time
they played the disc. That makes me feel like it's a disc issue more
than a burner issue.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:54 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive




I myself purchase nothing but Plextor. Got my 16X when they were

offering

a
$30 rebate - and it only took less than 4 weeks to get it - which is

some

kind of record, for me at least.

Not only do they perform extremely well, I find them durable having

burned

at least 200 DVD's so far on it.


Plextor, Pioneer, and NEC all make solid, good DVDRW drives. IMO,
Plextor
doesn't warrant the price premium, but whatever. Nobody makes an
'excellent'
DVDRW drive anymore, back like when Plextor made the absolute, bar-none
best
CD-RW drives <16X.



Not really discussed here is another plus with Plextor's. That is -->

you

can actually find upgrades without wading through 15 pages and 3

sites.

Sony
has their stuff buried who knows where.



But third party/community support is nil compared to both Pioneer and
NEC.


I have stopped using Lite-on all together as their support and

durability

are close to zero.



Agreed, Lite-On DVDRW drives are crap. Sony simply sells rebadged
Lite-On
units, so they are also crap.

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Wayne Johnson]

At 06:32 PM 8/25/2005, Hayes Elkins typed:
Marijuana laws send a mixed signal because two drugs that are more 
harmful, alcohol and chemically treated tobacco, are allowed to be sold 
over the counter. You ever hear about a raging pot head beating his wife? 
No, but we see plenty of violent drug dealers, just like the moonshiners 
and mafia filth of yesteryear. Legitimate, government regulated commerce 
of their product takes away the criminal element.


Alcohol is regulated yet we still have problems with drunk drivers or is 
that not criminal enough? Oh the criminal element in producing & 
distributing? OBTW go to any bar in the land & you'll find some guy trying 
to get a gal drunk so he can get lucky & yes, that's technically that's 
illegal too. In Ohio the only time that would not be illegal is if one were 
getting their spouse drunk in order to get lucky. One local idiot used as a 
defense that she was somebody's wife therefore it should've been legal.


As far as turf wars go if it's not about drugs & women then it'll be 
something else.



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Wayne Johnson]

At 03:30 PM 8/25/2005, Hayes Elkins typed:

What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's?


The Kennedy's still have most all of their money..


--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Julian Hale]

On that note, in states where they have high taxation of tobacco, 
they are starting to see "illegal" tobacco sold, often coming from 
the middle east(supposedly was financing Saddam).  You make a product 
that is in demand illegal, and the illegal sorts fill that 
demand.  Make it legal, and you cut their legs out from under them.


Julian

At 01:04 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops 
on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta 
love British Columbia! 


What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't 
work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of 
"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what 
happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's 
business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public 
education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! 
Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where 
our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!

RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[Mesdaq, Ali]

I am using a sony drive to burn images. So do you think that might be
the cause of the skipping on peoples dvd players? But they said it
played fine first time and then started skipping on the 2nd and 3rd time
they played the disc. That makes me feel like it's a disc issue more
than a burner issue.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:54 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive


>
> I myself purchase nothing but Plextor. Got my 16X when they were
offering 
> a
> $30 rebate - and it only took less than 4 weeks to get it - which is
some
> kind of record, for me at least.
>
> Not only do they perform extremely well, I find them durable having
burned
> at least 200 DVD's so far on it.

Plextor, Pioneer, and NEC all make solid, good DVDRW drives. IMO,
Plextor 
doesn't warrant the price premium, but whatever. Nobody makes an
'excellent' 
DVDRW drive anymore, back like when Plextor made the absolute, bar-none
best 
CD-RW drives <16X.

>
> Not really discussed here is another plus with Plextor's. That is -->
you
> can actually find upgrades without wading through 15 pages and 3
sites. 
> Sony
> has their stuff buried who knows where.
>

But third party/community support is nil compared to both Pioneer and
NEC.

> I have stopped using Lite-on all together as their support and
durability
> are close to zero.
>

Agreed, Lite-On DVDRW drives are crap. Sony simply sells rebadged
Lite-On 
units, so they are also crap.

Re: [H] Voice over IP

[Harry McGregor]

www.teliax.com

I would use IAX over sip as it gets through NAT with more ease, but they
also do SIP.  The pay as you go plans are nice, as you don't have to pay
for a lot of use you won't use.

Hardware I would go with this little guy if you have a Linux Box you can
use to provision it with.

http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=209


Harry


On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 17:30 -0500, Gary Udstrand wrote:
> Anyone here using VOIP?  I am thinking about signing up with Vonage, are
> there other providers I should consider?
> 
> Thanks!

Re: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[Greg Sevart]

I myself purchase nothing but Plextor. Got my 16X when they were offering 
a

$30 rebate - and it only took less than 4 weeks to get it - which is some
kind of record, for me at least.

Not only do they perform extremely well, I find them durable having burned
at least 200 DVD's so far on it.


Plextor, Pioneer, and NEC all make solid, good DVDRW drives. IMO, Plextor 
doesn't warrant the price premium, but whatever. Nobody makes an 'excellent' 
DVDRW drive anymore, back like when Plextor made the absolute, bar-none best 
CD-RW drives <16X.




Not really discussed here is another plus with Plextor's. That is --> you
can actually find upgrades without wading through 15 pages and 3 sites. 
Sony

has their stuff buried who knows where.



But third party/community support is nil compared to both Pioneer and NEC.


I have stopped using Lite-on all together as their support and durability
are close to zero.



Agreed, Lite-On DVDRW drives are crap. Sony simply sells rebadged Lite-On 
units, so they are also crap.

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

Can you list out some of the advantages the criminal organizations have to 
produce drugs?


- Knowledge of how to produce them doesn't count as there is nothing secret 
there


- Production facilities don't really count as the main thing the criminal 
ones have to deal with is how to hide the facility


- Distribution network doesn't could as legal companies can go direct to the 
stores while the illegal enterprises have way too many middlemen.


Eli


- Original Message - 




Never said they would not.  You think the criminals will stand idly by
and let their market share be taken from them?  Even if they compete
using only legal methods they would be formidable.  Their operations
would also still be very valuable and profitable.  And that is my
point.  If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the
criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken.  Or do you think
they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal?

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM:


If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs?  The
way they are made is not a secret.  And if you don't have to hide what
you are doing they are easy to make.

Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are
illegal to provide.

- Original Message -


And here I thought you had to grow them.  Anyways, you are missing the
point.  The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing
the drugs to the legal market.  They will continue to make money and do
whatever nefarious things with it that they do now.  Again, legalizing
drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM:


I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be
created or existing companies will expand to produce them.

I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather
get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking
around a street corner.

Eli

- Original Message -


Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for
alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:


What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
the 30's?



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by
the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar
empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

My father grew up in Bladen county - an unabashedly dry county in NC (until 
just recently). It had remained dry for over a century due to many factors, 
including a very influential and respected church lobby. However the 
resources to lobby constantly a county board from a church group requires 
outside monetary assistance. For almost 70 years, the biggest contributors 
to the anti-liquor lobby in Bladen county are the MOONSHINERS themselves! 
Think about it - why would they want an ABC store to take away their 
business?


Before Vick's vapor rub, that clear mason jar would be the home rememdy of 
choice for my father's side of the family.



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:26:52 -0500

Never said they would not.  You think the criminals will stand idly by
and let their market share be taken from them?  Even if they compete
using only legal methods they would be formidable.  Their operations
would also still be very valuable and profitable.  And that is my
point.  If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the
criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken.  Or do you think
they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal?

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM:

> If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs?  The
> way they are made is not a secret.  And if you don't have to hide what
> you are doing they are easy to make.
>
> Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are
> illegal to provide.
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> And here I thought you had to grow them.  Anyways, you are missing the
>> point.  The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing
>> the drugs to the legal market.  They will continue to make money and do
>> whatever nefarious things with it that they do now.  Again, legalizing
>> drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM:
>>
>>> I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be
>>> created or existing companies will expand to produce them.
>>>
>>> I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather
>>> get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking
>>> around a street corner.
>>>
>>> Eli
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>>
 Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for
 alcohol
 prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going 
to

 come from?

 -Gary



 Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:

> What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
> the 30's?
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500
>>
>> That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by
>> the
>> legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
>> organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar
>> empires?  Tax
>> the drugs??  LOL.
>>
>> -Gary
>
>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

It was taken from a conversation about gun laws, which I follow closely 
because I'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment. I liked the quote so much 
I use it often. Fits this tangent perfectly.


Violent behavior like murder and rape will always happen in spite of tough 
laws. That is because they are committed by inherently violent, deviant 
people. The best that law can do is prevent these violent people from 
committing more rape and murder by either locking them up or charbroiling 
them on old sparky. Everybody else has an instinctive moral code that 
perceives murder and rape as wrong without a law or fairy tale dictating so. 
It is my opinion that personal use of a substance in the privacy of your own 
home does not make you a violent person, nor a threat to anybody else accept 
maybe yourself. We already have plenty of laws in place to punish anybody 
for harm done on somebody else (or risking harm on somebody else) while 
under the influence of a substance.


Marijuana laws send a mixed signal because two drugs that are more harmful, 
alcohol and chemically treated tobacco, are allowed to be sold over the 
counter. You ever hear about a raging pot head beating his wife? No, but we 
see plenty of violent drug dealers, just like the moonshiners and mafia 
filth of yesteryear. Legitimate, government regulated commerce of their 
product takes away the criminal element.


You may want to inquire about how government provisioned marijuana is 
farmed. There is no involvement from the usual criminal elements of the 
illegal drug trade whatsoever.





From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:06:05 -0500

Draw that conclusion for me Hayes.  You do not think that punishment
serves to prevent?  I also find it interesting that you would turn to
Liddy to try and find support for your position..

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM:

> "In general, laws *punish* crime - they do not *prevent* crime."
>
> - GG Liddy
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:03 -0500
>>
>> How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and
>> teenagers?  Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage?  What else
>> are they supposed to do?  I suppose we should eliminate laws against
>> theft too since they would also fail your definition of success.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM:
>>
>> >I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a
>> >successful policy.
>> >
>> >On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Of course it is up to you to define successful?
>> >>
>> >>-Gary
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working
>> you
>> mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If
>> you are
>> defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from
>> society then
>> you are creating nothing more than a canard.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where
>> people
>> >>>take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
>> >>>on things that are completely unsuccessful.
>> >>>
>> >>>T
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>

Re: [H] gas and drugs???

[Eli Allen]

I thought we were waiting for the court case AMD launched to start ;)

- Original Message - 


What about the evil Intel empire?

SCO lawsuit?

Something more tech then gas and buds please



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005

[H] Voice over IP

[Gary Udstrand]

Anyone here using VOIP?  I am thinking about signing up with Vonage, are
there other providers I should consider?

Thanks!

-- 
-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

Turf wars happen because those who sell illegal drugs claim certain areas as 
theirs and others are not allowed to deal in that area.  If drugs were made 
legal no one would buy drugs off the street and they would turn to stores 
and the like ending the turf wars (well most of them as I guess a few are 
gang related and have nothing to do with drugs)  When was the last time a 
target employee and Wal-Mart employee were in a shootout?


Other crimes take place because users need to steal to get the money to pay 
for very expensive drugs.  Making the drugs legal would decrease the cost of 
the drugs and so there would be less of a need to steal to get money for 
them.


Eli

- Original Message - 




Drug usage is unquestionably lower as a result of the laws in place,
which is their purpose.  They are working.   Turf wars take place
regardless of drugs as do shootings and other crimes.  You have no
evidence to suggest that making marijuana legal would remedy any of
these issues.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM:


I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to
get the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to
get money to pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain
turf for selling drugs, etc)  And this decrease should be significant,
especially for the area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect
others besides just the user to a much larger degree so are more
important.

Using that definition I'd say they aren't working

Eli

- Original Message - From: "Gary Udstrand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices



Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
you are creating nothing more than a canard.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM:


At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote:


And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples
of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.




Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.

It's also a GREAT place to live.




I think that proves my point.  Harsh drug laws just don't work.
Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or
alcohol is working.

T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Never said they would not.  You think the criminals will stand idly by
and let their market share be taken from them?  Even if they compete
using only legal methods they would be formidable.  Their operations
would also still be very valuable and profitable.  And that is my
point.  If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the
criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken.  Or do you think
they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal?

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM:

> If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs?  The
> way they are made is not a secret.  And if you don't have to hide what
> you are doing they are easy to make.
>
> Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are
> illegal to provide.
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> And here I thought you had to grow them.  Anyways, you are missing the
>> point.  The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing
>> the drugs to the legal market.  They will continue to make money and do
>> whatever nefarious things with it that they do now.  Again, legalizing
>> drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM:
>>
>>> I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be
>>> created or existing companies will expand to produce them.
>>>
>>> I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather
>>> get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking
>>> around a street corner.
>>>
>>> Eli
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>>
 Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for
 alcohol
 prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
 come from?

 -Gary



 Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:

> What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
> the 30's?
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500
>>
>> That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by
>> the
>> legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
>> organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar
>> empires?  Tax
>> the drugs??  LOL.
>>
>> -Gary
>
>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs?  The way 
they are made is not a secret.  And if you don't have to hide what you are 
doing they are easy to make.


Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are 
illegal to provide.


- Original Message - 


And here I thought you had to grow them.  Anyways, you are missing the
point.  The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing
the drugs to the legal market.  They will continue to make money and do
whatever nefarious things with it that they do now.  Again, legalizing
drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM:


I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be
created or existing companies will expand to produce them.

I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather
get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking
around a street corner.

Eli

- Original Message -


Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:


What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
the 30's?



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.

-Gary

[H] gas and drugs???

[Jim Edwards]

What about the evil Intel empire?

SCO lawsuit?

Something more tech then gas and buds please



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Drug usage is unquestionably lower as a result of the laws in place,
which is their purpose.  They are working.   Turf wars take place
regardless of drugs as do shootings and other crimes.  You have no
evidence to suggest that making marijuana legal would remedy any of
these issues.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM:

> I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to
> get the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to
> get money to pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain
> turf for selling drugs, etc)  And this decrease should be significant,
> especially for the area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect
> others besides just the user to a much larger degree so are more
> important.
>
> Using that definition I'd say they aren't working
>
> Eli
>
> - Original Message - From: "Gary Udstrand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "The Hardware List" 
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>
>
>> Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
>> mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
>> defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
>> you are creating nothing more than a canard.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM:
>>
>>> At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote:
>>>
> And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples
> of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.



 Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.

 It's also a GREAT place to live.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that proves my point.  Harsh drug laws just don't work.
>>> Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or
>>> alcohol is working.
>>>
>>> T
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Draw that conclusion for me Hayes.  You do not think that punishment
serves to prevent?  I also find it interesting that you would turn to
Liddy to try and find support for your position..

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM:

> "In general, laws *punish* crime - they do not *prevent* crime."
>
> - GG Liddy
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:03 -0500
>>
>> How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and
>> teenagers?  Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage?  What else
>> are they supposed to do?  I suppose we should eliminate laws against
>> theft too since they would also fail your definition of success.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM:
>>
>> >I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a
>> >successful policy.
>> >
>> >On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Of course it is up to you to define successful?
>> >>
>> >>-Gary
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working
>> you
>> mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If
>> you are
>> defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from
>> society then
>> you are creating nothing more than a canard.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where
>> people
>> >>>take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
>> >>>on things that are completely unsuccessful.
>> >>>
>> >>>T
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

I know the history, thanks anyways. 

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:05 PM:

> By the way most drugs were legal originally.  You may want a small
> history lesson:
>
> http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html
>
>
> Eli
> - Original Message -
>
>> Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
>> prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
>> come from?
>>
>> -Gary
>>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

You win.  I guess it is time to legalize murder, robbery, rape, etc. 
since I cannot prove their effectiveness either.  LOL

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:55 PM:

> If the desired effect is decreased drug usage and making drugs harder
> to get along with decreasing crime related to the drug usage then I'd
> like to see your proof.
>
> Eli
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> USA and Canada.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:48 PM:
>>
>>> At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>>>
 Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure.  Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is
>>> doing alright.  Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country,
>>> so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada.  The Netherlands seems to
>>> be doing ok.
>>>
>>> And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of
>>> harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.
>>>
>>> T
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

And here I thought you had to grow them.  Anyways, you are missing the
point.  The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing
the drugs to the legal market.  They will continue to make money and do
whatever nefarious things with it that they do now.  Again, legalizing
drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM:

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be
> created or existing companies will expand to produce them.
>
> I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather
> get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking
> around a street corner.
>
> Eli
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
>> prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
>> come from?
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:
>>
>>> What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
>>> the 30's?
>>>
>>>
 From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Reply-To: The Hardware List 
 To: The Hardware List 
 Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500

 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
 legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
 organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
 the drugs??  LOL.

 -Gary
>>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to get 
the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to get money to 
pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain turf for selling 
drugs, etc)  And this decrease should be significant, especially for the 
area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect others besides just the 
user to a much larger degree so are more important.


Using that definition I'd say they aren't working

Eli

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Udstrand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices



Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
you are creating nothing more than a canard.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM:


At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote:


And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples
of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.



Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.

It's also a GREAT place to live.



I think that proves my point.  Harsh drug laws just don't work.
Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or
alcohol is working.

T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

"In general, laws *punish* crime - they do not *prevent* crime."

- GG Liddy



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:03 -0500

How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and
teenagers?  Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage?  What else
are they supposed to do?  I suppose we should eliminate laws against
theft too since they would also fail your definition of success.

-Gary



j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM:

>I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a
>successful policy.
>
>On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>Of course it is up to you to define successful?
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:
>>
>>
>>
>>>At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you 
are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society 
then

you are creating nothing more than a canard.


>>>I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where people
>>>take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
>>>on things that are completely unsuccessful.
>>>
>>>T
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

By the way most drugs were legal originally.  You may want a small history 
lesson:


http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html

Eli
- Original Message - 


Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

If the desired effect is decreased drug usage and making drugs harder to get 
along with decreasing crime related to the drug usage then I'd like to see 
your proof.


Eli


- Original Message - 

USA and Canada.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:48 PM:


At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:


Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?



I'm not sure.  Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is
doing alright.  Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country,
so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada.  The Netherlands seems to
be doing ok.

And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of
harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.

T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or 
existing companies will expand to produce them.


I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get 
their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a 
street corner.


Eli

- Original Message - 

Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:


What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
the 30's?



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and
teenagers?  Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage?  What else
are they supposed to do?  I suppose we should eliminate laws against
theft too since they would also fail your definition of success.

-Gary



j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM:

>I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a
>successful policy.
>
>On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Of course it is up to you to define successful?
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:
>>
>>
>>
>>>At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
you are creating nothing more than a canard.


>>>I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where people
>>>take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
>>>on things that are completely unsuccessful.
>>>
>>>T
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[j m g]

I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a
successful policy.

On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Of course it is up to you to define successful?
> 
> -Gary
> 
> 
> 
> Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:
> 
> > At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
> >
> >> Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
> >> mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
> >> defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
> >> you are creating nothing more than a canard.
> >
> >
> > I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where people
> > take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
> > on things that are completely unsuccessful.
> >
> > T
> 
> 


-- 
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

A staunch libertarian take on the WoD 
http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=war




From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:04:34 -0500

Yes.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:06 PM:

> At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> USA and Canada.
>
>
> So you feel we are winning the drug war?
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Of course it is up to you to define successful?

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM:

> At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
>> mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
>> defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
>> you are creating nothing more than a canard.
>
>
> I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where people
> take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted
> on things that are completely unsuccessful.
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Yes. 

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:06 PM:

> At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> USA and Canada.
>
>
> So you feel we are winning the drug war?
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
you are creating nothing more than a canard.


I think working is pretty easy to define:  A free society where people take 
responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things 
that are completely unsuccessful.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[j m g]

the same places stores get their goods from now, growers,
manufacturers, local and international, if it was legal and had a
profit margin and some demand it wouldn't be at Walmart?

On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And where is Walgreens supposed to get the drugs?
> 
> -Gary
> 
> 
> 
> j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 2:37 PM:
> 
> >If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the
> >marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter.
> >
> >On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
> >>legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
> >>organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
> >>the drugs??  LOL.
> >>
> >>-Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
> >>>actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
> >>>should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
> >>>market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
> >>>regulation and treatment efforts.
> >>>
> >>>Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
> >>>drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
> >>>them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
> >>>drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
> >>>medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
> >>>from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
> >>>use the drugs.
> >>>
> >>>Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
> >>>should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
> >>>recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
> >>>effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
> >>>
> >>>Eli
> >>>
> >>>- Original Message -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
> 
> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
> >>To: The Hardware List 
> >>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
> >>
> >>
> >>What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
> >>park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
> >>drugs solved any social ills?
> >>
> >>-Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
> >>>
> >>>
> >shops on
> >
> >
> >>>the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
> >>>British Columbia! 
> >>>
> >>>What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
> >>>work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
> >>>"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
> >>>happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
> >>>business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
> >>>education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
> >>>Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
> >>>our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
> >>>
> >>>warpmedia wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere
> 
> 
> >these
> >
> >
> days! LOL
> 
> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
> 
> FORC5 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >"Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
> >
> >
> >cellophane
> >
> >
> >to dynamite."
> >Popular Mechanics, 1938
> >
> >
> >At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
> >>buds to Canada. 
> >>
> >>gibney wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> --
> -jmg
> 
> Chaos often br

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

USA and Canada.


So you feel we are winning the drug war?

T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Your problem is you have failed to define working.  If by working you
mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working.  If you are
defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then
you are creating nothing more than a canard.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM:

> At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote:
>
>>> And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples
>>> of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.
>>
>>
>> Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.
>>
>> It's also a GREAT place to live.
>
>
> I think that proves my point.  Harsh drug laws just don't work. 
> Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or
> alcohol is working.
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

And where is Walgreens supposed to get the drugs?

-Gary



j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 2:37 PM:

>If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the
>marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter.
>
>On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
>>legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
>>organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
>>the drugs??  LOL.
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:
>>
>>
>>
>>>A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
>>>actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
>>>should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
>>>market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
>>>regulation and treatment efforts.
>>>
>>>Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
>>>drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
>>>them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
>>>drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
>>>medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
>>>from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
>>>use the drugs.
>>>
>>>Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
>>>should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
>>>recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
>>>effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
>>>
>>>Eli
>>>
>>>- Original Message -
>>>
>>>  
>>>
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...

On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



>Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>
>  
>
>>From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>>To: The Hardware List 
>>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>>
>>
>>What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>>park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>>drugs solved any social ills?
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>>
>>
>>
>>>BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
>>>  
>>>
>shops on
>  
>
>>>the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>>>British Columbia! 
>>>
>>>What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>>>work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>>>"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>>>happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>>>business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>>>education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>>>Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>>>our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>>
>>>warpmedia wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere


>these
>  
>
days! LOL

Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.

FORC5 wrote:



>"Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
>  
>
>cellophane
>  
>
>to dynamite."
>Popular Mechanics, 1938
>
>
>At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>
>  
>
>>Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
>>buds to Canada. 
>>
>>gibney wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>>
>>>  
>>>



>  
>
--
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]




>
>
>  
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

USA and Canada.

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:48 PM:

> At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?
>
>
> I'm not sure.  Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is
> doing alright.  Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country,
> so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada.  The Netherlands seems to
> be doing ok.
>
> And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of
> harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

I have no idea what you are talking about Hayes but leave it to you to
come up with shit like this.  It was meant as a joke.  You are some
piece of work.

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:26 PM:

>
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500
>>
>> Big difference, without food and water you die.  Without sex you become
>> a nerd.  LOL
>>
>> -Gary
>
>
> Or a buttfucking pedophile priest.
>
> (remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was
> introduced solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote:
And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of 
harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.


Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.

It's also a GREAT place to live.


I think that proves my point.  Harsh drug laws just don't work.  Unless you 
feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol
prior to prohibition.  So we make drugs legal, where are they going to
come from?

-Gary



Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM:

> What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of
> the 30's?
>
>
>> From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: The Hardware List 
>> To: The Hardware List 
>> Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500
>>
>> That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
>> legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
>> organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
>> the drugs??  LOL.
>>
>> -Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:
>>
>> > A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
>> > actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
>> > should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
>> > market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
>> > regulation and treatment efforts.
>> >
>> > Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
>> > drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
>> > them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
>> > drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
>> > medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
>> > from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
>> > use the drugs.
>> >
>> > Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
>> > should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
>> > recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
>> > effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
>> >
>> > Eli
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> >
>> >> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
>> >> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
>> >>
>> >> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>> >>>
>> >>> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>> >>> >To: The Hardware List 
>> >>> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>> >>>
>> >>> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about
>> Needle
>> >>> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>> >>> >drugs solved any social ills?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >-Gary
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
>> >>> shops on
>> >>> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta
>> love
>> >>> >> British Columbia! 
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition"
>> doesn't
>> >>> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>> >>> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>> >>> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax?
>> Who's
>> >>> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>> >>> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>> >>> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's
>> where
>> >>> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> warpmedia wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere
>> >>> these
>> >>> >>> days! LOL
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the
>> little
>> >>> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course
>> there
>> >>> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since
>> that
>> >>> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or
>> use.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> FORC5 wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
>> >>> cellophane
>> >>>  to dynamite."
>> >>>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>> >>> 
>> >>> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and
>> sell the
>> >>> > buds to Canada. 
>> >>> >
>> >>> > gibney wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> -jmg
>> >>
>> >> Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
>> >> Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:48:53 -0300

At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?


I'm not sure.  Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing 
alright.  Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard 
to compare to the US or Canada.  The Netherlands seems to be doing ok.


And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of 
harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.


Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head.

It's also a GREAT place to live.

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 04:37 PM 25/08/2005, j m g wrote:

If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the
marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter.


Yup.  And that's why legalizing it works so well.  The same for 
prostitution, btw.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?


I'm not sure.  Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing 
alright.  Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard 
to compare to the US or Canada.  The Netherlands seems to be doing ok.


And that's one, not several.  Please give me some concrete examples of 
harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[j m g]

If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the
marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter.

On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
> legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
> organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
> the drugs??  LOL.
> 
> -Gary
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:
> 
> > A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
> > actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
> > should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
> > market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
> > regulation and treatment efforts.
> >
> > Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
> > drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
> > them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
> > drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
> > medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
> > from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
> > use the drugs.
> >
> > Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
> > should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
> > recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
> > effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
> >
> > Eli
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> >> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
> >> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
> >>
> >> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
> >>>
> >>> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
> >>> >To: The Hardware List 
> >>> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
> >>>
> >>> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
> >>> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
> >>> >drugs solved any social ills?
> >>> >
> >>> >-Gary
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
> >>> >
> >>> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
> >>> shops on
> >>> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
> >>> >> British Columbia! 
> >>> >>
> >>> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
> >>> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
> >>> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
> >>> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
> >>> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
> >>> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
> >>> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
> >>> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
> >>> >>
> >>> >> warpmedia wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere
> >>> these
> >>> >>> days! LOL
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
> >>> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
> >>> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
> >>> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> FORC5 wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
> >>> cellophane
> >>>  to dynamite."
> >>>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
> >>> 
> >>> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
> >>> > buds to Canada. 
> >>> >
> >>> > gibney wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -jmg
> >>
> >> Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
> >> Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
> >>
> >>
> >
> 


-- 
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 
30's?




From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:

> A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
> actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
> should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
> market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
> regulation and treatment efforts.
>
> Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
> drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
> them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
> drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
> medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
> from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
> use the drugs.
>
> Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
> should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
> recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
> effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
>
> Eli
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
>> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
>>
>> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>>>
>>> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>>> >To: The Hardware List 
>>> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>>>
>>> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>>> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>>> >drugs solved any social ills?
>>> >
>>> >-Gary
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>>> >
>>> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
>>> shops on
>>> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>>> >> British Columbia! 
>>> >>
>>> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>>> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>>> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>>> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>>> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>>> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>>> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's 
where

>>> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>> >>
>>> >> warpmedia wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere
>>> these
>>> >>> days! LOL
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>>> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>>> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>>> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> FORC5 wrote:
>>> >>>
>>>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
>>> cellophane
>>>  to dynamite."
>>>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>>> 
>>> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell 
the

>>> > buds to Canada. 
>>> >
>>> > gibney wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -jmg
>>
>> Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
>> Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Veech]

Are we at the 3-day rule yet for this topic?

- Original Message - 
From: "Hayes Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices







From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500

Big difference, without food and water you die.  Without sex you become
a nerd.  LOL

-Gary


Or a buttfucking pedophile priest.

(remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was 
introduced solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500

Big difference, without food and water you die.  Without sex you become
a nerd.  LOL

-Gary


Or a buttfucking pedophile priest.

(remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was introduced 
solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the
legalizing drugs crowd.  What in God's name makes you think that
organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires?  Tax
the drugs??  LOL.  

-Gary



Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM:

> A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are
> actually very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they
> should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black
> market,  These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the
> regulation and treatment efforts.
>
> Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational
> drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use
> them.  This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the
> drugs.  I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your
> medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee
> from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't
> use the drugs.
>
> Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research
> should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a
> recreational drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side
> effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad.
>
> Eli
>
> - Original Message -
>
>> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
>> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
>>
>> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>>>
>>> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>>> >To: The Hardware List 
>>> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>>>
>>> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>>> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>>> >drugs solved any social ills?
>>> >
>>> >-Gary
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>>> >
>>> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in
>>> shops on
>>> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>>> >> British Columbia! 
>>> >>
>>> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>>> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>>> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>>> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>>> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>>> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>>> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>>> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>> >>
>>> >> warpmedia wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere
>>> these
>>> >>> days! LOL
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>>> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>>> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>>> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> FORC5 wrote:
>>> >>>
>>>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from
>>> cellophane
>>>  to dynamite."
>>>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>>> 
>>> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
>>> > buds to Canada. 
>>> >
>>> > gibney wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -jmg
>>
>> Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
>> Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Wow,  you really need to do some reading.

-Gary



Ben Ruset said the following on 8/25/2005 9:41 AM:

>Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>
>  
>
>>From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>>To: The Hardware List 
>>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>>
>>
>
>  
>
>>What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>>park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>>drugs solved any social ills?
>>
>>-Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>>
>>
>>
>>>BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
>>>the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>>>British Columbia! 
>>>
>>>What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>>>work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>>>"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>>>happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>>>business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>>>education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>>>Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>>>our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>>
>>>warpmedia wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
days! LOL

Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.

FORC5 wrote:



>"Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
>to dynamite."
>Popular Mechanics, 1938
>
>
>At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>
>  
>
>>Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
>>buds to Canada. 
>>
>>gibney wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>>
>>>  
>>>



>
>  
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Big difference, without food and water you die.  Without sex you become
a nerd.  LOL

-Gary



Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 12:25 PM:

> The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the
> horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our
> reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior
> becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is
> getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children
> with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent
> disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.
>
> FORC5 wrote:
>
>> not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for
>> giving kids condoms.
>> a society needs standards to live by
>> for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a
>> product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where
>> used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food.
>> go figure.
>> fp
>>
>> At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:
>>
>>> At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>>>
 What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
 park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
 drugs solved any social ills?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social
>>> ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge
>>> police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into
>>> prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them
>>> outside prisons.
>>>
>>> T 
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tallyho ! ]:8)
>> Taglines below !
>> -- 
>> Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.
>>
>> 
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date:
>> 8/24/2005
>>  
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

You are making a HUGE assumption, that being that enforcement doesn't do
anything.  Most believe that the enforcement is working the way it
should.  It is a deterrent and as such is doing its job.

-Gary



j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 11:45 AM:

>But how many billions are spent on enforcement that doesn't get
>anywhere.  Why even bother busting kids with a cigarette's worth of
>pot?  Your taxes are already going to the 'war on drugs' and that
>money isn't being wisely spent.
>
>On 8/25/05, Gary VanderMolen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>>The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from
>>>cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan.
>>>Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped
>>>medically, not jailed.
>>>  
>>>
>>Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive
>>medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't.
>>I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either.
>>Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the
>>iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and
>>learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime.
>>
>>Gary VanderMolen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

Several.  China is a lot better off now, isn't it?

-Gary



Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 9:40 AM:

> At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>
>> What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>> park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>> drugs solved any social ills?
>
>
> Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social
> ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge
> police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into
> prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside
> prisons.
>
> T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

From: "Gary VanderMolen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: "The Hardware List" 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:37:44 -0700

Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive
medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't.
I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either.


http://www.aa.org

Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. 
People need to take ownership of their own problems and

learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime.

Gary VanderMolen


Reminder to all:

Arguing the illegality of marijuana while alcohol and tainted tobacco 
products remain legal is fundamentally stupid.


Liberty comes with consequences. Drug use comes with consequences. 
Legalizing a weed does not absolve you from punishment if you commit a 
crime.


The US is perhaps the "freest" nation on earth with exception to its asinine 
drug laws. Can you believe the audacity of other countries that claim they 
are free yet they can imprison people for controversial speech? And I'm not 
talking about yelling "fire" in a movie theater. The point being is that in 
order for the US to truly be a champion of protecting fundamental human 
liberties in wake of a tyrannical majority, drug laws need to be drastically 
re-examined. For those who want to waste their life in drugs, I say let 
them. Just like we allow people to become alcoholics, smokers, or gamblers. 
And make it a double edged sword so that our taxes do not pay for the ills 
that come with said vices.

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Hayes Elkins]

Curing cancer.



From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:31:48 -0500

What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?

-Gary

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary VanderMolen]

So we should all just give in to our impulses and do what
the hell we want? I was plenty horny by age 13, which
doesn't mean I was emotionally ready, or financially
capable of the consequences of a broken/slipped condom.

Gary VanderMolen


- Original Message - 
From: "Stan Zaske" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the 
horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our 
reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior 
becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting 
something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with 
condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and 
unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.

RE: [H] Gas prices

[Wayne Johnson]

At 01:29 PM 8/25/2005, 007 typed:

I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest.  Perhaps it has to
do with access, supply and demand.


Medical fact that women don't mature sexually until their mid 30's while 
males it's 19-21 & at that age many females are trying to figure out how 
they can get over on the horny guys to get what they want. Heck, some of 
them never stop trying to get over on us poor guys.   With that 
argument about condoms why don't we just give the kids at 13 the house, 
car, boat, motorcycle & whatever else you value & see how long it'll be 
before they trash either it or themselves. You say 13 is too young? There 
was a gal in my HS class that had a baby at 13 by a known BF. At that age 
if we allow them to act whenever the impulse hits them I doubt many of them 
will remember to use a condom. They need to learn control sometime.


--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Stan Zaske]

Perhaps you've forgotten your raging hormones my friend. In the natural 
world people saw animals copulating all the time and that was all it 
took to prime the pump. But just because we insulate ourselves from the 
natural world doesn't mean we aren't a part of it and the drive to 
reproduce. Look at all the sex crime in this country and tell me it 
doesn't have a great deal to do with our suppression of our natural 
urges. Go on a 4 day fast with nothing but water and see how it affects 
your mind. Be sure to have others observing you to give you feedback on 
the things you do that in your altered state of mind you can't see. Peace


007 wrote:


I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest.  Perhaps it has to
do with access, supply and demand.

007.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stan Zaske
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:26 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices


The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the
horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our
reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior
becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting
something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with
condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and
unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.

FORC5 wrote:

 


not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for
giving kids condoms.
a society needs standards to live by
for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a
product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where
used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food.
go figure.
fp

At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:

   


At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

 


What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?
   


Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge
police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into
prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them
outside prisons.

T
 


--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005


   





 

RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[rls]

That's a good price on the Pioneer.

I myself purchase nothing but Plextor. Got my 16X when they were offering a
$30 rebate - and it only took less than 4 weeks to get it - which is some
kind of record, for me at least.

Not only do they perform extremely well, I find them durable having burned
at least 200 DVD's so far on it.

Not really discussed here is another plus with Plextor's. That is --> you
can actually find upgrades without wading through 15 pages and 3 sites. Sony
has their stuff buried who knows where.

I have stopped using Lite-on all together as their support and durability
are close to zero.

RE: [H] Gas prices

[007]

I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest.  Perhaps it has to
do with access, supply and demand.

007.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stan Zaske
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:26 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices


The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the
horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our
reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior
becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting
something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with
condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and
unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.

FORC5 wrote:

> not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for
> giving kids condoms.
> a society needs standards to live by
> for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a
> product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where
> used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food.
> go figure.
> fp
>
> At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:
>>
>>> What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>>> park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>>> drugs solved any social ills?
>>
>>
>> Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social
>> ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge
>> police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into
>> prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them
>> outside prisons.
>>
>> T
>
> --
> Tallyho ! ]:8)
> Taglines below !
> --
> Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
>
>

RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[Wayne Johnson]

Mwave has them even cheaper. 
 & no rebate to 
deal with.


At 01:18 PM 8/25/2005, Bobby Heid typed:

I was looking for something on Buy.com and came across what looks like a
good deal on a Pioneer DVD writer.  Unfortunately, they are temporarily out
of stock.  But in case anyone is interested:

http://www.buy.com/prod/Pioneer_16X_DVD_RW_Dual_Layer_Internal_Writer_Beige_
DVR_A09XLA/q/loc/449/10399833.html

http://tinyurl.com/d2wut

Pioneer 16X DVDRW Dual Layer Internal Writer - Beige - DVR-A09XLA

Our Price: $92.99
Price After Rebate(s):  $62.99
List Price:  $109.99

Rebate link:
http://ak.buy.com/buy_assets/retail/pdfs/05Q2/0627-0730dk_multiplepioneer.pd
f

Good through 8/31/05

Bobby


--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: Re: [H] Gas prices

[007]

Having drugs gives agents and the government to subsidize prisons, seize
property (Ferrari's, Large Mansions) etc.

I don't think we should make them legal any time soon.

Any one wants to buy a Ferrari Testarosa for $5,000?

007.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eli Allen
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:24 AM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices


A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually
very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they should still be
cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market,  These taxes are
what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts.

Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs
are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them.  This
allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs.  I do
believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go
up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your
mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs.

Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should
never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational
drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just
need to balance the good parts and the bad.

Eli

- Original Message -

> http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
> arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...
>
> On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
>>
>> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>> >To: The Hardware List 
>> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
>>
>> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>> >drugs solved any social ills?
>> >
>> >-Gary
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>> >
>> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
>> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>> >> British Columbia! 
>> >>
>> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>> >>
>> >> warpmedia wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
>> >>> days! LOL
>> >>>
>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>> >>>
>> >>> FORC5 wrote:
>> >>>
>>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
>>  to dynamite."
>>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
>> 
>> 
>>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>> 
>> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
>> > buds to Canada. 
>> >
>> > gibney wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -jmg
>
> Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
> Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Wayne Johnson]

At 12:45 PM 8/25/2005, j m g typed:

But how many billions are spent on enforcement that doesn't get
anywhere.  Why even bother busting kids with a cigarette's worth of
pot?


So he won't get the idea that it's ok & that to make any easy living he 
might start to sell it?  At some point a foot must come down but it should 
be done with compassion on a case by case basis as no one solution will 
work for everyone. OBTW saying that enforcement is not getting anywhere is 
like my kid telling me that he wants to wear an ear ring because everyone 
is doing it. With that kind of logic where does it all stop? When he gets 
to be 18 & lives elsewhere & then he decides he wants to wear an ear ring 
then fine but since he's not allowed to then everyone is NOT doing it. 
There has to be some rules if not at what age should I allow my kids to 
spend money on tattoos & ear rings just to be kewl ? 5? 7? 10? 13? What 
happens when we don't have the money for such things should I allow my kids 
to take what they want? Of course not, so we agree that there has to be 
some rules some where, some time & the real question is when & this can 
only be answered on a case by case basis hopefully with some compassion.


--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Stan Zaske]

The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the 
horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our 
reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior 
becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting 
something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with 
condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and 
unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.


FORC5 wrote:

not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for 
giving kids condoms.

a society needs standards to live by
for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a 
product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where 
used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. 
go figure.

fp

At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:


At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:


What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?



Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social 
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge 
police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into 
prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them 
outside prisons.


T 


--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Stan Zaske]

Dr. Phil's theme for the day happens to be drug and alcohol abuse and 
the effects on our loved ones. 3pm Central time.


Thane Sherrington wrote:


At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:


What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?



Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social 
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge 
police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into 
prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside 
prisons.


T

RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive

[Bobby Heid]

I was looking for something on Buy.com and came across what looks like a
good deal on a Pioneer DVD writer.  Unfortunately, they are temporarily out
of stock.  But in case anyone is interested:

http://www.buy.com/prod/Pioneer_16X_DVD_RW_Dual_Layer_Internal_Writer_Beige_
DVR_A09XLA/q/loc/449/10399833.html

http://tinyurl.com/d2wut

Pioneer 16X DVDRW Dual Layer Internal Writer - Beige - DVR-A09XLA

Our Price: $92.99
Price After Rebate(s):  $62.99
List Price:  $109.99

Rebate link:
http://ak.buy.com/buy_assets/retail/pdfs/05Q2/0627-0730dk_multiplepioneer.pd
f

Good through 8/31/05

Bobby

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Stan Zaske]

Agreed, but trying to stop the influx of drugs hasn't worked and the 
billions spent would be better utilized with a multi-decade public 
education blitz and rehab. In addition, more research $'s need to be 
spent on the mechanisms involved and better drugs to wean people off the 
harder stuff. The long view, research, and public education are the best 
ways to deal with addictive behavior. Remember, you can be addicted to 
work, play, exercise, hell anything under the sun for that matter. It's 
all rooted in a person's self-esteem and throwing people in prison is 
like sending them to a college for criminals. Our current methods of 
coping with drug abuse are inadequate at best. Thanks for the feedback.


Gary Udstrand wrote:


What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?

-Gary



Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:

 


BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
British Columbia! 

What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!

warpmedia wrote:

   


Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
days! LOL

Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.

FORC5 wrote:

 


"Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
to dynamite."
Popular Mechanics, 1938


At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:

   


Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
buds to Canada. 

gibney wrote:


 


Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.

   



 




 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Wayne Johnson]

At 11:42 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington typed:

At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote:
not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving 
kids condoms.

a society needs standards to live by


So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune 
rather than trying something else?  Makes no sense to me.


Ah but why throw out the baby with the bath water? The solutions are 
probably somewhere in between. As for not trying something else all one has 
to do is look at other societies. Either way tons of money is being spent 
with minimal successful results. There will always be some kids that have a 
tough time with reality when they leave the comfort of home or the hell of 
it. There always will be people breaking relationships with others & some 
of those others resorting to drugs or booze for an easy fix but as soon as 
they realize there is no easy fix the better off they will be. Then there 
will be some that the medical doctors screw with like our neighbors across 
the street. She was put on Oxycontin after minor surgery which is a no no 
because of it's addictive qualities. She didn't feel that she could get off 
it & because she had a healthy inheritance she made the jump to H. Her 
husband was no wizard & joined in. Eventually she wound up at the hospital 
with gross sores all over & not knowing where her kids were. The courts 
took the situation under consideration & sent him to the joint for a year & 
her to a halfway house for 6 mo & the kids went to live with her mother in 
the meantime. They are all home together again after learning a tough 
lesson but it shows that if people actually care even the present system 
can work. If that had happened to me & my wife & kids at that age my folks 
would've told me that I was on our own & we would've lost the house & 
probably the kids forever. All the blame can't go on the law & the courts. 
Society I believe is just starting to realize that families need to stay 
together but with a few exceptions of course. We've seen in this country 
within families mostly that neither super strict ethics nor a complete 
break with ethics work.


Can't we all just get along? ;-)

--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[j m g]

But how many billions are spent on enforcement that doesn't get
anywhere.  Why even bother busting kids with a cigarette's worth of
pot?  Your taxes are already going to the 'war on drugs' and that
money isn't being wisely spent.

On 8/25/05, Gary VanderMolen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from
> > cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan.
> > Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped
> > medically, not jailed.
> 
> Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive
> medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't.
> I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either.
> Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the
> iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and
> learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime.
> 
> Gary VanderMolen
> 
> 


-- 
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary VanderMolen]

The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from 
cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. 
Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped 
medically, not jailed.


Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive
medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't.
I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either.
Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the 
iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and

learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime.

Gary VanderMolen

Re: [H] Gas prices

[warpmedia]

"Standards"? What the hell does that mean? We got freaks around the 
world that think we are criminals for not complying with their religious 
standards and want to KILL US for it. Some standards just don't make 
sense when examined, many are arbitrary.We should be giving kids (and 
3rd world countries) condoms because we know people are going to screw, 
period.


As to standards, many people eat freshly grown things from their garden 
all the time & don't drop dead. You get into refined things and even 
with standards you have problems.


Aspartame, Sucralose, saccharin, acesulfame, MSG...

We do it everyday when we eat something with the generic catch all 
"artificial" or "natural" ingredients print on the label. Hell there's 
plenty we're allowed to consume that is KNOW to be bad, just as long as 
it's not enough to kill us outright.


The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from 
cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. 
Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped 
medically, not jailed. Read any medical text listing the know drugs used 
and you'll find alcohol #1 bad drug, pot the last thing in the list.


Decriminalize pot and be on the look out for people ABUSING not simply 
using the drug, then put our drug war money to proper use helping to 
heal rather than punish.


FORC5 wrote:
  not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for 
giving kids condoms.

a society needs standards to live by
for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a 
product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used 
in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure.

fp

At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:


At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:


What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills? 



Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social 
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge 
police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into 
prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside 
prisons.


T 


--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

Decriminalization doesn't mean that society can't look at drug use as a bad 
thing.  So I don't see how societies standards are weakening.


In fact decriminalization could strengthen them, what happens to those who 
think drugs are bad but want prisons to be used for real criminals?  It 
would allow more people to become united against abusing drugs.


Eli

- Original Message - 
not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving 
kids condoms.

a society needs standards to live by
for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product 
that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in 
manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure.
fp 

[H] VGA splitter

[Thane Sherrington]

I'm looking for a VGA splitter that'll run for monitors (for demo 
purposes.)  Do I need 350MHz, or is 250MHz fine?


T

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Al]

Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote:
> >not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving 
> >kids condoms.
> >a society needs standards to live by
> 
> So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune 
> rather than trying something else?  Makes no sense to me.
> 

And those standards that the society lives by change and evolve with
time. 


Al

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote:
not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving 
kids condoms.

a society needs standards to live by


So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune 
rather than trying something else?  Makes no sense to me.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[FORC5]

not a good reason to make these products legal. same
argument for giving kids condoms.
a society needs standards to live by
for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a
product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used
in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go
figure.
fp
At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with:
At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary
Udstrand wrote:
What happened in China when they
legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization
of
drugs solved any social ills?
Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge
police budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into
prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside
prisons.
T 

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.

Re: Re: [H] Gas prices

[Eli Allen]

A few minor changes I'd make.  First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually 
very cheap to make.  So I say tax them very highly and they should still be 
cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market,  These taxes are 
what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts.


Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs 
are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them.  This 
allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs.  I do 
believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go 
up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your 
mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs.


Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should 
never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational 
drug.  A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just 
need to balance the good parts and the bad.


Eli

- Original Message - 


http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...

On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.

>From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>To: The Hardware List 
>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices

>What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>drugs solved any social ills?
>
>-Gary
>
>
>
>Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>
>> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
>> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>> British Columbia! 
>>
>> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>
>> warpmedia wrote:
>>
>>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
>>> days! LOL
>>>
>>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>>>
>>> FORC5 wrote:
>>>
 "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
 to dynamite."
 Popular Mechanics, 1938


 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:

> Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
> buds to Canada. 
>
> gibney wrote:
>
>
>> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>





--
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]

Re: Re: [H] Gas prices

[j m g]

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization
arguement.  Sounds pretty good to me...

On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.
> 
> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
> >To: The Hardware List 
> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices
> 
> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
> >park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
> >drugs solved any social ills?
> >
> >-Gary
> >
> >
> >
> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
> >
> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
> >> British Columbia! 
> >>
> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
> >>
> >> warpmedia wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
> >>> days! LOL
> >>>
> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
> >>>
> >>> FORC5 wrote:
> >>>
>  "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
>  to dynamite."
>  Popular Mechanics, 1938
> 
> 
>  At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
> 
> > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
> > buds to Canada. 
> >
> > gibney wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> 


-- 
-jmg

Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit.
Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]

Re: Re: [H] Gas prices

[Ben Ruset]

Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals.

>From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005
>To: The Hardware List 
>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices

>What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
>park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
>drugs solved any social ills?
>
>-Gary
>
>
>
>Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:
>
>> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
>> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
>> British Columbia! 
>>
>> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
>> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
>> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
>> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
>> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
>> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
>> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
>> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>>
>> warpmedia wrote:
>>
>>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
>>> days! LOL
>>>
>>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>>>
>>> FORC5 wrote:
>>>
 "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
 to dynamite."
 Popular Mechanics, 1938


 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:

> Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
> buds to Canada. 
>
> gibney wrote:
>
>
>> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

RE: [H] Re: Best DVD disc with Drive

[Tony Antoniou]

The good thing with Plextor is, I would be surprised at one of their units
failing but at the same time I'd also breathe easy knowing once it was
fixed/replaced, it would remain so for the rest of its natural life.

Top notch drives but I'm happy to stick with Pioneer from a cost and
reliability compromise.


Adios,
Tony

---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid
Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2005 3:20
To: 'The Hardware List'
Subject: RE: [H] Re: Best DVD disc with Drive

I just RMAed my 4 1/2 month old Plextor.  First Plextor that I have ever had
trouble with.

Bobby

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Shaw
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:15 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] Re: Best DVD disc with Drive



On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:23:18 GMT
"Tony Antoniou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I would have to agee here about Sony. I had 2 that didn't hold up. I tried
to get the first replaced from Sony. What info they wanted me to provide in
order to get it replaced was way beyond rediculous. I was obvious they were
side stepping replacing the drive even though they gave me the impression
that it should be replaced.

I've had good luck with both of my Pioneer's. I started using them at the
recommendation of Wayne. I also have had good luck with the Ritek DVD-R's &
+RW's, even though someone on this list was having problems with them.

> 
> I would avoid Sony. Especially since they're rebadged Lite-On's, the build
> quality hasn't proven itself to be even half decent in my experience. I've
> already had 2 units which are selective about working on an Asus board as
> opposed to a Gigabyte board. Oddball stuff.
> 
>  
> 
> Adios, 
> Tony 
> 
> ---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  --- 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2005 10:00
> To: Bobby Heid; 'The Hardware List'
> Subject: RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive
> 
>  
> 
> I meant to answer your question about which drive also.  The latest
> consensus seems to be the Pioneer, Plextor, NEC, and Sony (I think these
are
> rebadged Lite-Ons) drives.  I would still research further and not take my
> word for it.  I got a great deal on the Plextor back in March.  I was
going
> to get the Pioneer until I came across the Plextor deal.
> 
>  
> 
> Bobby
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:35 AM
> To: 'The Hardware List'
> Subject: RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive
> 
> Prerecorded DVDs are pressed, not burned.  That is a much better process
> than burning them.
> 
>  
> 
> Bobby
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mesdaq, Ali
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:07 PM
> To: The Hardware List
> Subject: RE: [H] Best DVD disc with Drive
> 
> Yeah but why do movies from blockbuster work for everyone. There should be
a
> good way of making custom dvd's for home. So is plextor burners the best
to
> go with. Is it better to use Single layer or Dual layer DVD burners? What
> about Single vs Dual layer Discs?
> 
>  

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Thane Sherrington]

At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote:

What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?


Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social 
ills?  All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police 
budgets and drugs on the streets.  If they can get drugs into prisons 
(supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons.


T 

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Gary Udstrand]

What happened in China when they legalized drugs?  What about Needle
park in Zurich?  Can you cite one example where the legalization of
drugs solved any social ills?

-Gary



Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM:

> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on
> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love
> British Columbia! 
>
> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't
> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of
> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what
> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's
> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public
> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization!
> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where
> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
>
> warpmedia wrote:
>
>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these
>> days! LOL
>>
>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little
>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there
>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that
>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.
>>
>> FORC5 wrote:
>>
>>> "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane
>>> to dynamite."
>>> Popular Mechanics, 1938
>>>
>>>
>>> At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:
>>>
 Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the
 buds to Canada. 

 gibney wrote:


> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Gas prices

[Stan Zaske]

BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on 
the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love 
British Columbia! 


What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't work 
even after all the organized crime that came as a result of 
"criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! 
So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is 
it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab 
rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is 
associated with "self-esteem" and that's where our focus should be! So 
much for wisdom in government!


warpmedia wrote:

Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these 
days! LOL


Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little 
Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was 
the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to 
be the law the get you on rather than possession or use.


FORC5 wrote:

"Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane 
to dynamite."

Popular Mechanics, 1938


At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with:

Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the 
buds to Canada. 


gibney wrote:



Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.